Detroit Jihad – by Robert Spencer


detroit

Luqman Ameen Abdullah, the imam of Detroit’s Masjid Al-Haqq (Mosque of Truth), was killed Wednesday in a shootout with FBI agents. The agents were trying to arrest him on charges of conspiracy, receipt of stolen goods, firearms offenses and more. Agents also arrested eight mosque members; then Thursday, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police caught Abdullah’s son, Mujahid Carswell. Two other accused jihadists also fled, and have not yet been found.

According to the indictment, in his mosque in Detroit Luqman Abdullah was preaching “offensive jihad” and the establishment of a Sharia state in North America. This sovereign Isamic state would be ruled by Islamic law – and by the apparent godfather of Abdullah’s movement, Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin. Al-Amin is the former Black Panther and convert to Islam who gained fame under the name H. Rap Brown. Al-Amin is now serving a life sentence for murdering two police officers, while his disciples, like Luqman Abdullah, carry on the message he articulated so memorably in the 1960s: “If America don’t come around, we’re gonna burn it down.”

In the spirit of his mentor, Abdullah has told his flock: “America must fall.” He has encouraged the Muslims in his mosque to support Hizballah, the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. He exhorted them to bestir themselves to pious deeds: “We should be figuring out how to fight the Kuffar” – that is, unbelievers. “We got to take out the U.S. government. The U.S. government is nothing but Kuffars.” Among the unbelievers were FBI agents, about whom Abdullah declared: “Deal with them, deal with them the way, the way they supposed to be dealt with…. It’s not that complicated, man….If they are coming to get me I’ll just strap a bomb on and blow up everybody.” A law enforcement official wrote in an affidavit that “Abdullah and his followers have trained regularly in the use of firearms, and continue to train in martial arts and sword fighting” – in accord with Abdullah’s dictum that every Muslim believer should “have a weapon and should not be scared to use their weapon when needed.”

Abdullah found justification for all this in the Islamic holy book, the Qur’an, which he said “justified stealing, robbing and other illegal acts, as long as they profit Islam.”

One would think that Muslim spokesmen in America would be anxious to prove their moderate bona fides by repudiating Abdullah, praising the efforts of law enforcement officials, and announcing new measures to teach against the understanding of Islam that prevailed at the Masjid al-Haqq and to shore up the moderate Islam that politically correct orthodoxy insists prevails in all mosques in America in the first place. But no such luck. Instead, they praised Abdullah and excoriated law enforcement.

Dawud Walid of the Michigan branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) reinforced CAIR’s image as an unsavory group with numerous ties to terror – an image newly reinforced by numerous revelations in the explosive new book Muslim Mafia — as he tried to paint a very different picture of Abdullah: “I know him as a respected imam in the Muslim community.” He emphasized the Masjid al-Haqq’s charitable activities, perhaps forgetting that Nazi Germany (and Hamas, and Hizballah) ran social programs as well, and thus their existence is no indication that the one operating them is in every sense benign.

According to the Detroit Free Press, Walid said that a group of imams were going to meet with the head of Detroit’s FBI office, Andrew Arena, to complain, about “linking the weapons and smuggling charges to the Muslim faith” – as if the FBI, rather than Luqman Abdullah, had done this. Arena probably won’t need much convincing: he has already asserted, without explanation, that Abdullah taught “a very hybrid radical ideology – one mainstream Muslims “would not recognize.” For his part, Walid also warned that the death of Abdullah and the arrests of other Masjid al-Haqq would anger Muslims and make them even more suspicious of law enforcement than they already are: “As much as our president says nice, flowery things about Muslims and Islam in Cairo or Istanbul, these types of stories just erode that.”

Meanwhile, the Muslim Alliance of North America, of which Abdullah was a member, complained about the shootout in a statement: “This tragic shooting raises deep concerns regarding the use of lethal force by law enforcement agents. We urge law enforcement and the media not to take undo advantage of this tragedy in order to demonize … African American Muslims in particular.”

These kinds of statements fall into a pattern that has played out many times before. An Islamic jihadist plots murder and mayhem, explicitly justifying it all by reference to Islamic texts and teachings. Then putatively moderate Muslims, instead of support law enforcement efforts, criticize them and complain about Muslims being victimized and Islam being unfairly linked to terrorism. Generally this is followed by the spectacle of media and law enforcement officials bending over backwards to make sure that no one gets the impression that Islam had anything to do with the bloody plots that the arrested parties were planning.

The problem with this pattern is that no one involved is doing anything to keep the story of Luqman Abdullah and the Masjid al-Haqq from being repeated in other mosques in the United States in the future. No one is challenging the Muslim community here to clean its own house and stop the dissembling and finger-pointing. No one is speaking openly and honestly about what the Qur’an really says, and what the implications are of that fact. No one, in short, is doing much of anything to ensure that Luqman Abdullah, one of the first clergymen in the United States to be killed in a shootout with the FBI, is not just the first of many.

  • Timmy

    Weaver was a SEPARATIST not a supremacist. There is a HUGE difference, look it up. Fact is the only way the West is going to survive is by being Separatist FROM Islam. Police treat their dogs as another officer. They did not shoot the imam with a sniper bullet. The imam provoked the confrontation by not complying with lawful orders. But that is the problem with Islam, they believe they are above manmade laws.

  • clark81

    His ideology was white supremacy: separatism was merely his proposed solution. The position he took was still a totalitarian one, as were his religious views (influenced by both Dominion Theology and the Christian Identity movement).

  • Timmy

    Whatever Weaver was he was no where near what Islam is. In 1400 years Islam has proved that it is the supremacist cult to beat all supremacist cults. Entire civilizations have been destroyed by it. It is currently in the process of destroying Europe and America is next. The problem currently facing America is not from white anything, in fact, white people are allowing unrestricted immigration from third world countries willingly giving up their majority. To even suggest that whites might have some interest in preserving their civilization, “White European Christian” is to be instantly labeled a vicious evil hate fill intolerant bigoted racist so very very few people even will admit to any feelings for THEIR OWN RACE to other members of their own family. Personally I will be happy if America avoids Islamization, but it would also be preferable to not become a third world nation where each race fights for their own interests in a balkanized nation and polity. But we need to be careful not to let Randy Weaver distract from the issue of this imam and others like him. Islam is the urgent problem that must be dealt with.

  • CowboyUp

    LMAO! Then why don't practitioners of 'the religion of peace' just use their tongue swords to reply to tongue swords, instead of the steel and explosives they use?

    The jihadi imam would be alive today if he ran his mouth instead of pulling iron. Thanks for helping Mr. Spencer make his point.

  • CowboyUp

    Grounds or no, shooting my dog without shooting me first is stupid, especially if we are acting within our legal rights.

    If you can't see the difference between Randy Weaver and the jihadi imam try opening your eyes.

    Whatever his beliefs, Randy Weaver was in the middle of nowhere, bothering nobody. You're jihadi imam was in a population center preaching and planning terrorism against the USA.

    They arrested him for cutting a shotgun to within a quarter inch of the 18″ legal limit, and arguably to the legal limit. Your jihadi was smuggling and trading in stolen guns and other property in support of terrorist groups with American blood on their hands.

    The atf initiated the violence by attracting the attention of the Weavers' dog then shooting him as he neared with a submachinegun in front of the boy. They weren't identifiable as law enforcement, and the boy fired one shot and ran. Your jihadi imam shot a police dog with a badge on his chest, and tried to shoot clearly identified police officers.

    Nice try.

  • coyote3

    Ah, just what race are we supposed to be “racist” toward? Last I heard Moslems are not a race.

  • john

    It should not be surprising that most of these conversions to Islam take place in prison. That is fairly fitting given the general mind set of this cult that the left seems to think is great and most claim to be atheist but since Islam seems out to destroy the west, it has to be great, in their eyes.

  • Dazey

    Typical neocon tactics. Start with the name-calling, that always works. (except with mature people who are capable of critical thinking.) You read a story from a slanted “paper” like this, and believe it? You believe everything you read? Don't you ever research anything? Apparently not. If you did, you couldn't fail to see the errors in this 'article'. It must be awful to be so full of hate. I'm sorry for you.

  • Dazey

    This is true. In fact, most Muslims are asian, and many are white, hispanic… the list goes on.

    However the concept of racism is exactly the same.

  • Dazey

    I didn't intend to “hide behind any number” as I have nothing to hide. You however, are logged in as “Guest”. ;-)

    Unless you are Martha, why are you answering my question that was directed toward her?

  • Dazey

    Interesting. I have also been to those places. I know more about Hitler than you think, actually. But those detaills will be by private mail only. And yes, I am also familiar with those texts.

    You mention that Catholics did not do those things. You also accuse me of creating a straw man. I am not creating any straw man, and I never said that Catholics did do those things.

    I asked a question that no one has been able to answer; what if it were Catholics who did?

    Since you seem to know a bit about history, was there not a time when Catholics did those things? The Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades?

    Someone mentioned Timothy McVeigh. Yes, he was rounded up and killed. No, he didn't have followers, but he was a follower of a large Militia, and there are a lot of those. He called himself a Christian.

    I can name other Christian terrorists, especially if you want to go into those who go after abortionists. But this isn't the issue.

    The issue is that Islam does not teach terrorism. Islam is about peace, but for some odd reason people want to demonize it. What is the big threat, I wonder?

    Islam is the second largest religion on the planet – and if we were such a big threat to you – wouldn't you already be gone? I think probably so. But no one has any interest in doing any harm to our neighbors.

    Because of a few who may have been responsible for 911 (there's more to it that meets the eye methinks) the entire religion is evil?

    Only according to Spencer and his minions. I would not be proud of being one of his minions. He is a hate-monger, and hate-mongers are miserable people.

    If you want to run around in fear for the rest of your lives, and persecute yet another people (and it is absolutely like the persecution of the Jews in EU before and during WWII!) then have at it. But evil never goes unanswered by God. And God knows best – we will all have to answer in the afterlife.

    By the way, I don't know if it has occurred to any of you – but all of this profiling and persecuting Muslims only creates more anger. Is that a way to make you safer, because I don't think so.

    A thought: What do people like Spencer have to gain from propagating hatred this way? Hmm.. could it be…. monetary gain? You bet! Could it be pride? Absolutely! Imagine having the power to tell others what to think, and how to feel! It must be magical. But it's pure evil, and God willing you'll all see that before you are judged by the Almighty.

    In peace,

  • Dazey

    Sanitized version? Well there's a statement.

    There are no “versions” of the Holy Qur'an. Not one single character has ever been changed. Not one. There are English Translations, and I welcome you to show me anywhere in there that states terrorism is part of Islam's teachings.

  • Dazey

    As salaamun alaykum Jamillah,

    Wise words, Aameen.

    Masalaam

  • Dazey

    Uhm… what Constitution? The one the bush administration tore to shreds with the so-called “Patriot Act”?

  • Dazey

    Hello “Guest”. Well, that's mighty Christian of you, isn't it?

  • jackbelias

    Name calling is ok as long as the shoe fits. You stand in absolutist solidarity with muslims at all times because your party line dictates it. You are incapable of individual thought, a mindless Obamabot waiting to be told what to think. Such a creature is sure to be at least mildly retarded.

    No leftist is capable of critical thinking. I spent too long on a college campus to think any of you really bother with reasoned positions. Critical thinking was in fact not allowed as it might lead to individuals questioning your party line. Dogmas rarely stand up to reason and often ignore evidence to the contrary.

    Your dogma says:

    An innocent unarmed freedom fighter for equality and human rights was assaulted by heavily armed neo nazis bent on world domination.

    The evidence says:

    FBI agents attempted to arrest a heavily armed hate filled Imam who had been preaching radical jihad. A shootout ensued and the Imam was killed while others were arrested.

    Dogmas dont fly for me, reason is all I need. That Imam wanted to kill unbelievers. Atheists like myself will be first when they eventually get their way, but know that you are probably next. That day is fast coming as the majority has embraced your mindless faith based leftist bullshit movement. You welcome muslim empowerment, you really believe that turning on your own communities will save you from their reckless hate. It wont, you will only be ravaged last when there is nobody left to save you. Islam is an all dominating system of dogmas that cannot ever be questioned. All persons living in muslim societies are to be born muslim, there is no choice. I am sitting in one now and I do not feel like coming home to exactly the same thing when my deployment is over.

    I cant be a neocon by the way. This would require that I be a former democrat turned republican. I have never been a democrat or a republican. I dont need a party line or a handbook to tell me what I think. A mind is a gift nature gives to some of us, but not to others.

  • jackbelias

    The dogma is all the same. No racism can exist yet you find it here anyway.

    Islam is a dominant culture not a race.

    Islamic societies arent the utopia leftists hope for. Its populations are kept uneducated on purpose as educated people are harder to herd. Poverty is often severe as the uneducated are unable to do for themselves. Slavery still exists in many. Males dominate nearly all walks of life. Women are not to vote, learn to read, or attempt a career outside of servitude in the home. Female children can be traded or sold like cattle. Wife beatng or even killing are looked upon as legal in the eyes of the lord, thus legal according to the state. Anyone questioning the dogmas of Islam are punished in public so they can be made examples of. Death is the most common punishment.

    I dont want to live in utopia, the chaotic life I live now at least allows me to be human and think as one.

  • jamillah37

    My comment applies to all of us. Your tongue is a sword and so is mine. Now go back and ponder on the line,
    Where I said; “watch what you say. The Creator of the Heavens and the Earth dos not play.”
    I was not there so I can not speak about what the Imam actions was. Because,
    I did not see him and neither did you. So how much of the story that was told to us TRUE?
    All we do know is that A servant of Allah was shot and killed.
    The family is owed blood money, Who should be billed?
    I can't believe a lie, lies are always wrong.
    But the truth is the truth and will always be strong.
    If you do not serve the Lord then who are you serving.
    People reject worshiping The Lord and He is deserving.
    They rather follow their desires, serving the evil one, it's disturbing.

    Who side are you on? The good or the bad?
    If you are not serving the Lord then that is sad. Serving the devil your desires you can't control.
    I love Islam and My Creator and I'm going to serve Him until He takes my soul. Peace.

  • jackbelias

    You need to find the nearest military recruitment office so you can see Islam in action for yourself. I have yet to see evidence of it being a religion of peace.They hide among unarmed civilians before ambushing convoys like cowards. If we shoot back they cry like babies about Americans shooting innocent muslims. They arm themselves, pick a fight, then run to nanny states for protection as soon as bullets fly. They clearly arent real warriors, but they dont seem to believe in peace either.

    The most dangerous duty is standing guard over a polling station. Allah himself thows a tantrum in the heavens when people vote, and all of his faithful go into full meltdown.

    Islam isnt being demonized by others, the actions of muslims have demonized Islam. If it were a catholic in this case other catholics would write him off as a terrorist and applaud law enforcement for taking him down. Muslims respond in exactly the opposite way.

    You say responding to muslim violence only makes them angry, I say bending over for them only leads to a severe case of hemeroids. Natural law (which includes human nature) does not take pity on the weak who refuse to fight, it crushes them without mercy.

    You accuse the author of hate speech, which suggests that you are probably not the biggest fan of the 1st article of the bill of rights. He reported on a violent happening with yet another hate filled extremist who just happens to be a current political ally of yours. Of course you think he shouldnt write such things, disagreement is hate, disagreement must go.

  • jamillah37

    I beg to differ with that. When you speak, speak the fact.
    The Qur'an is guidance for all of MANKIND..
    The man made laws to us are fine.
    We only ascertain the laws that reflect what the Lord has said.
    Only then and then do we chose to abide.
    We are all abiding citizens, we have nothing to hide.
    It's people and their scams to set us up in a trap.
    Propaganda, makes people believe that crap.
    Believers in Islam are humble and peaceful people.
    It's ignorance and desires that's in an individual.
    They makes choices just like anybody else.
    They have to suffer the consequences of the actions of themself.
    We all have to stand before the creator on the day of Judgment.
    To answer for our actions and how our life was spent.
    All of mankind should fear their Creator.
    The Lord is One and He is Greator.

    P.S. I saw the video of “Randy” They took him out. and his family. How can people sleep at night after killing?

  • jamillah37

    Islam is not a cult.
    It's a way of life.
    It was sent to all of mankind.
    If you do not believe that, it's fine.
    Only The Creator makes Believers.
    There is no compulsion in Islam.
    Believers invite people to the truth ,
    It suppose to be without any harm.
    I feel sorry for the Muslim community if their leader is misguided.
    But I'm not going to knock other Muslim communities or get excited.
    The state of mind is the concern. What we all are thinking in return.
    All the garbage out there in the streets and in jail our children learn.
    Muslims are not out to destroy the west, and they are not terrorist.
    Individuals may be extreme, but that's in any religion you know what I mean.
    Allah is Great.

  • jamillah37

    Wa Alaikum As salaam!
    Just giving the dawah, I love to share.
    I want my prayers answered. It's Allah I fear.
    It's our job to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong.
    So when I see attacks on Islam, I have to attack back strong.

    Do these people believe that fire burn?
    They can't see, back to Allah is our return.

    May Allah Have Mercy! Ameen!

  • jamillah37

    Hey jack You Be A Lier?

    I ask the question because of your name.
    Life to you is amusement and you are playing a game.
    Islam is peaceful not radical, it's not a cult.
    Don't talk about Your Creator or you'll get hit with a Lightingbult.
    Who picked on who?
    Where did the war start?
    When people retaliate their reason is torn apart.
    The defender of the faithful and defenders of Islam.
    Can we all just get along without any harm.

    We too have a problem when we have extreme practicing peers.
    But let us deal with our own dirty laundry, enough with your swears.
    Foul language from your mouth, it's a sword.
    How dear you use foul language about your Lord.

    The Creator is your maker, you must not mis treat Him.
    Be careful of your actions one day you have to meet Him.

    Be wise Guys!!!!

  • jamillah37

    I was talking about everyone's mouth that has a tongue. It says in the bible that it is not what you put in your mouth that defiles you it is what you say out your mouth that defiles you. A person eating (dung) is cleaner than the one who speaks ill and wrong or foul language out their mouth.

    Check it… before Islam I was raised with the bible. I still read the bible till this day. Why? Because Allah says in the Qur'an …”Remember when” so I have to remember and refer back to my teachings. Ascertaining the truth. Islam and Christianity have similar rules the only difference is that the leaders today are changing them and the Christians attribute the Creator to Christ and Christ is the creation and he is not the son of the Creator he was made from the Word like the Qur'an is the very word of Allah (LORD).
    My mother is an evangelist from the south, and she raise me to believe in ONE Lord, have ONE faith and One Baptism. I just took her teachings and applied them to my new way of life (Islam) excluding the pork. I never smoked or drank alcohol. By the way the Qur'an was personally written by Allah the Almighty, Creator Himself. The Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him, just spoke it from his mouth because it was foretold to Moses in Det. 18:18.
    No! It does not say or mean JESUS. It says prophet and people don't acknowledge Jesus as a prophet. So they call him god or the son of god. I seek refuge with the Lord from lies on Him.
    Do you study what we are about or do you go by what you hear?
    You think education is very costly, try ignorance. LOL!
    No disrespect I made my comment general to address all of mankind. I do not judge people. I just take what I know and spread the truth.
    Why do you think we celebrate During Ramadhan seeking for (the Night of Power) It was the Night Allah wrote the Qur'an and it took 23 years to reveal from the Holy Spirit (Gabriel) May Allah be pleased with him. Also, I have living proof that Jesus did not die. And if you see him before I do tell him I love him and I'll have dinner waiting for him after he breaks the cross and kill the anti Christ (Dajaal). LOL!

    To say the Qur'an is a lie is to say Allah is Lying. Don't want to be around you when it thunders and Lighting. LOL!
    How do you sleep? Sleep is the twin to death. When you really go to sleep
    ( when The Creator calls you back to Him) you will see what I am talking about. F.Y.I.
    The Qur'an is still in it's original form. The bible has been revised over and over.
    You do see English, Spanish and other languages translated, but the original form is usually next to it on the same page. So get a hold of a Arabic Qur'an and learn the language and read the Word of Your Lord.
    May You be guided to the truth. I know the truth Hurts. It sets me free! LOL!
    CowboyUp if your Interested….LOL!
    Didn't feel the need to rhyme the lines, I didn't have the time. LOL!!!!

  • jamillah37

    ISLAM IS ABOUT PEACE!
    It's the people…. the people……stop the disrespect.
    Islam leaves an impression on you, you'll never forget.

    If a Christian or a Jew kills or murders or steals.
    Do we blame Christianity or all The Jews?
    No, it's that individuals actions portrayed,
    and displayed everyday on the news.
    Their own faults, and corruptness in that individuals mind.
    No matter what your faith, sinners you will find.

    It's just that you repent and change your way of living.
    Denounce the evil in you, JUST STOP SINNING!
    No matter how you do it, just get to it.
    Repent for your sins. You got to start some where.
    Choose your path, fear Allah's wrath.
    Start somewhere take a step toward the Creator.
    He'll run towards you, and His way is Greater.

    Learn about Islam before your tongue cause you harm.

  • Walt

    Of course there are different versions of the Qur'an, since a translation of any work reflects the personality and ideological constraints of the translators. Or, does the Angel Gabriel whisper into their ears as well? You really do need to work on your dawah, and rely less on your canned web site.

    Also, there are plenty of verses in the Qu'ran which deal with hostility and violence towards unbelievers. If you want to claim that the word terrorist is not used in the Qu'ran that is fine, but you do need to realize that you are projecting a modern term into the past. Also, would Mohammed have referred to himself as a terrorist, since that word does have very negative connotations.

    Here are some verses for you: 3:145; 47:4-6; 2:154; 9:14; 47:19; 8:72. Also, you could look up the Verse of the Sword, if you like: 9:5. That should be enough for you for now. Have all the fun you can.

  • Walt

    “But I'm not going to knock other Muslim communities or get excited” Yes, even if they promote heinous acts, you will not condemn then. You have said it ll right there. Indeed, you are a good cult member.

  • jamillah37

    That is so funny. LOL!
    Sounds like you have some fear.
    Who are you afraid of?
    Are you afraid here will be no evil on earth for little while?
    No drinking,
    No smoking,
    No fornicating,
    No committing adultery,
    No stealing,
    No killing,
    No lying
    Maybe no one will be mistreated anymore.
    No fighting Just Peace.

    Fear any of this to happen. Well why did Moses receive the ten commandments?
    To correct the corruptness in his community.

    Well, all the Prophets came with the same message, Allah is One.
    Why are people hatting on Islam. Are you doing it just for fun?
    Islam corrects, protects and demands respect for it's believers.
    It's by your own choice if you are a receiver.
    Stop the violence, stop the slander, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

  • jackbelias

    Wow everything you say is in song. You must be really obnoxious in person.

    Regardless of what MTV says Islam isnt peace, modern Islam takes roots with the words of the pedophile prophet at Medina. Islam offers no life choices, one is simply forced to be a muslim from birth.

    You have been doing a piss poor job of policing your own, otherwise we would leave you to it. Look how you support the radical in the article, which muslims were going to clean that laundry before the FBI had to get involved? It looks like someone dropped the ball.

    Nature is the creator. Turn the MTV off and get an education.

  • jackbelias

    I agree, it would make great toilet paper if it were printed on soft enough paper. We could all pray while we wipe. That would be sure to please the sociopathic allah.

  • jackbelias

    Oh look a hippy mystic. Do you bath? Is the use of soap still seen as a capitalist crime against all humanity?

    You speak of being educated then tell us an invisible man wrote a book. How does this invisible man explain the dinosoars? What about all of the evidence collected suggesting early man was a bit hairy and often dragged his knuckles? I hear they still like bananas.

    You are a UCLA version of educated. The rest of the educated still embrace science.

  • http://MSA.COM/ Omega2

    I did make my choice and it sure isn'the CRAP you are espousing that ISLAM is of PEACE. Yes a piece of you and a piece of me, but one difference, they can have a piece of you, a DOLT, but they will have to fight real hard to get a PIECE of ME. These MUSLIM DICK HEADS fight with a SWORD, but I have modern means to protect myself. AS the saying goes, dont bring a sword to battle with a GUN. Of course these Jihads are COWARDS as they hide behind WOMEN and CHILDREN so be carefull they arn't hiding behind you.

  • CowboyUp

    It's you who misunderstand. If the faithful really believed God doesn't play, then they would let him handle insult, instead of breaking out the real swords themselves. It's not God being served when children's hospitals and girls' schools are being blown up. Attacking from behind women and children isn't serving God, neither is deliberately drawing fire on them.

    How do you know he was a servant of allah? Because he preached death to America? Seems only allah can know that for sure, but theft, smuggling stolen goods, and material support terrorist groups sure doesn't seem like the work of allah to me. I'll believe the cops before I believe anyone that says the things he has said, anyway

    Blood money? Who should be killed? Get real. We don't live under sharia. If we were really being culturally sensitive, we would hold his family responsible for his crimes as well.

  • CowboyUp

    As long as that attack stays verbal, you're fine. When you initiate force against me or mine, you'd better pack a second lunch.

  • CowboyUp

    Yea, he does,lol.

  • CowboyUp

    How so? What powers did President Bush assume that FDR didn't? How is listening in on terrorist's overseas calls violating constitutional rights? Get real.

    BTW, what part of the Patriot Act has hussein rescinded?

  • coyote3

    The concept is not valid. There are only three races, Caucasian, Negro, & Mongolian. If the action is not related to a “race”, then, while it might be something else, it is not racist. Words mean things. I am not it is good or bad.

  • jamillah37

    MTV
    Muslim Television.

    “You don't know me” like TI said. Do you know what he went to jail for? He is not Muslim but he was armed. If you have the same or close to what he had then you need to go to jail too.
    It's people like you who make the prophecy true.
    Keep it up play your role.
    You have to meet your maker sometime.
    Kill us and we go to paradise.
    The murders go to hell.
    So simple. We welcome you.
    You can be arrested for hate crime.
    I saved all your comments.
    Bring it!!!!!!
    Fear the Creator!!!!!! enough said.

  • Dazey

    All due respect – and I do thank you for your thoughtful reply, but I actually AM a big fan of the first amendment. However, I think it should apply to all, not just some.

    Of course, there's also using common decency. KKK members are also allowed their freedom of speech, but does that make it something you'd want to hear – and spread around? Spencer is no better than those KKK members. Yes, he's allowed to post. However, he posts hate speech.

    How would you like it if someone “blogged the bible” by twisting it and trying to make it look evil? By the way, we Muslims also read the Bible, and we also love Jesus, peace be upon him.

    What did Jesus say about this kind of hatred? What did he say about prejudice? I can remind you if you need.

    As far as what you say about Muslims – what is your experience? Have you been to Iraq? Was it with the military, or were you a mercenary? I think seeing Muslims through the eyes of a scared brainwashed soldier – kicking in doors at three in the morning, beating men and boys half to death, detaining them, raping women – might give you a less than balanced view.

    If your country was occupied.. if someone invaded your country, here, in America – would you not resist? Would you not, as a patriot – fight back? Of course you would. If you didn't, you may as well welcome the invaders in.

    Of course, we americans expect to be welcomed in, don't we? I mean – what human on earth wouldn't want to be like americans? Who wouldn't want that same 'freedom'?

    How ecocentric. How terribly closed-minded. To think that the US is what everyone wants to emulate. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    For instance: a small example. In the US women are exploited sexually. Sex sells donuts, chips, cars, everything is about sex, and it's all about debasing women. In Islam women are honored. We are not pressured to 'be sexual' in order to be accepted from an early age. We are modest – and we value our rights, and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was insistent upon those rights.

    Women weren't even allowed to own property in the west. Muslim women were. Women weren't even allowed a voice in politics in the west. I could go on and on. Yet I wear my hijab and people stare, or look away, or look disgusted. There is a misconception that women are treated badly in Islam – and this is yet another excuse to 'hate' Islam. I am here to tell you – you're wrong.

    That isn't the only misconception I've heard voiced here. I believe that a lot of you don't think of Muslims – most especially Arab Muslims – as human beings. I think you de-humanize them in order to demonize them. That's a strange irony, isn't it? You dehumanize them yet are afraid of them.

    Of course, the concept of Jihad is everyone's favorite misconception. As I stated earlier, everyone has the right to defend themselves. The laws concerning jihad are clear. If you are attacked, you may defend. If your people are attacked, you may defend, in fact it's a duty.

    You might like to think about it as here in the US men and women join the military to defend the USA.

    Of course, there are solid and important rules to jihad. Women and children are never ever to be harmed, if prisoners are taken they are to be treated well and not abused, no destruction of farmlands and livestock, basic decency that any God-fearing person would automatically know to do.

    But in the US military they are trained to kill from boot camp. I know some of the cadences. Our city was recently visited by some Iraq war veterans who explained to us – the mindset and how they are trained. They asked us all to, if we cared about our family and friends – to stand up. Everyone did. They asked us if we would protect them. We did. Then they asked us to repeat a cadence. It was horrifying, but they explained that when a group is taught this – who is going to be the one guy who sits down and says, “No”? It made perfect sense. There's a lot of pressure. I can completely understand how these things can happen. I know other vets as well. I also know former guards of detainees who have opened up about the truth. Have you heard of Winter Soldier? IVAW?

    They have all talked about the atrocities that are commited to this day in Iraq and Afghanistan. You expect Muslims to sit idly by while this is happening – and not defend themselves, their people, our people?

    So long as there is violence against Muslims, Muslims will fight back, who wouldn't?

    As long as atrocities on the scale of Abu Ghraib – where women and children were sexually abused, Haditha, rapes and murders of entire families – people are going to be outraged, and people are going to fight back.

    If someone kicked in your door at 3AM, raped your 12 year old daughter in front of you, and killed almost every member of your family – what would you do? Please answer honestly.

    Maybe if the US gets out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and stops supporting regimes and illegal states like Israel – just maybe – all of this can end. Maybe if Americans are so happy here in America – they can concentrate on taking care of THIS country where we have people starving, people with no health care, people who are homeless, jobless. We have 'wars' within our own borders with gang violence. And no one thinks of that?

    Isn't that something else Jesus (peace be upon him) said?

    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me remove the speck from your eye”; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” (Matt. 7:1-5).

    I find that very fitting.

    Peace

  • Dazey

    Salaamun alaykum Jamallah,Masha'allah – and excellent post! Jazak'Allah Khair. :-)Fi AmanillahYour sister in Islam

  • Dazey

    I'm sorry, sir, but there is only one version of the Holy Qur'an and it is written in the Arabic, character for character as Muhammad (peace be upon him) recited it. It has never been changed.

    There are, however, various versions of TRANSLATIONS of the Qur'an, however the translations are sunject to the author's interpretation of the actual Arabic text. So unless you are willing to learn to read Arabic – you will never read the actual text of the Holy Qur'an.

    I also notice that you took some ayat out of context. That shows me you've never read the Qur'an in it's entirety. Unless you do – please do not try to speak about what it says, you do not know. It is essential that it be read -in context-. I can do the same with the Holy Bible. Shall we go over that? No, I would not waste my time on that, because it's a silly thing to do.

    I would be happy to go along with you reading the Qur'an – and discussing it. You mention Yusuf Ali's version. Shall we begin with that?

    I will also be happy to post the misconceptions that you probably got those verses from. I'd be happy to post them, anyway.

    In the meantime – look to your leader: http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/11/loonwatch-excl

    Peace

  • Dazey

    I can safely bet that they can't shoot better than I can. ;-) I've won a few contests in my time. :-) My father was a military man who taught me to shoot – almost from birth.

  • Dazey

    Again I believe you are the pot trying to call the kettle black.

    Look to your leader: http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/11/loonwatch-excl

    Who is the cult member here?

  • Walt

    I see no real answer to my post. You apparently are unable to defend your statement:”But I'm not going to knock other Muslim communities or get excited”.

    Instead, you go off on an irrelevant tangent by claiming Robert Spencer is my leader. How cute. I am concerned about the subjects he rights about, and not the man himself. Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, and so many others must be my leaders as well. Unlike you, I do not narrowly look to one book or creed for information.

    Finally, can you bring yourself to condemn forthrightly a Moslem group that advocates criminal activity and also engages in it? You really do need to work on your dawah.

    It is easy for most people. Mormons who engage in polygamy are bad. Catholic Priests who engage in pedophilia are bad. They should be prosecuted for their crimes. Why not be clear on this subject yourself?

  • Walt

    “So unless you are willing to learn to read Arabic – you will never read the actual text of the Holy Qur'an.”

    Since I could not read Arabic anyway, how would I know that you were not simply lying about what the contents were or taking verses out of context? This is using your logic. Also, the verses I cited are frequently used by jihadists, such as Osama bin Ladin to justify their activities. As for your leader, I will leave you to your man who thought he was a god.

  • jackbelias

    “Of course, there's also using common decency. KKK members are also allowed their freedom of speech, but does that make it something you'd want to hear – and spread around? Spencer is no better than those KKK members. Yes, he's allowed to post. However, he posts hate speech.”

    Your grasping at straws and comparing apples to pickup trucks. He is nothing like Hitler or the KKK, he simply reported on a violent religious faction composed mostly of convicted felons who got into a shootout with the FBI. One cannot have firearms following felony conviction. They had every right to attempt arrest.

    Your definition of hate speech is anything that offends anyone. That pretty much covers everything and anything. Your holy book would be banned as hate speech if everything that offended me was illegal. It is clear that muslims cannot live in a nation that allows free speech. Your honesty on the issue is telling, you are too thin skinned as a faith to be expected to brave the elements of a free society. That doesnt mean I have to go, I am well adapted to such a climate. The laws of nature suggest that it is you who is out of place.

    I dont care what gets said about the bible, I like science. So far Christians havent blown up any schools for teaching evolution or held mass protests calling for the deaths of teachers. Newspaper columnists and cartoonists can freely make fun of Chistains without fear of violent mobs or bombings.

    'As far as what you say about Muslims – what is your experience? Have you been to Iraq? Was it with the military, or were you a mercenary? I think seeing Muslims through the eyes of a scared brainwashed soldier – kicking in doors at three in the morning, beating men and boys half to death, detaining them, raping women – might give you a less than balanced view.”

    Im currently serving in Iraq with the US military. We arent kicking doors in at 3:00 so we can rape whole families. Only Obama Christ and a few left wing web sites would claim that we do. There has been only one documented rape and those individuals have not been treated kindly. Their well deserved court martial is public knowledge. Real warriors dont rape, and they had no right to share a uniform with us. Your claims suggest that you have never been to Iraq or Aghanistan. Reality here is a bit different than www. fantasy land progressives spend way too much time in.

    “If your country was occupied.. if someone invaded your country, here, in America – would you not resist? Would you not, as a patriot – fight back? Of course you would. If you didn't, you may as well welcome the invaders in.”

    We are living that reality right now. Obama needs to pass speech laws and burn the rest of our constitution so special thin skinned cultures can feel comfortable here. I agree that it might be time to fight back.

    The muslims we fight are not defending themselves or Islam. This region is troubled by land disputes that date back centuries. Many times we get caught in the middle of warring muslim factions. Iraqs neighbors seem to be sending the most violent extremists. Everybody wants that oil because everyone wants to be rich so we see Iranians alot.

    “Of course, there are solid and important rules to jihad. Women and children are never ever to be harmed, if prisoners are taken they are to be treated well and not abused, no destruction of farmlands and livestock, basic decency that any God-fearing person would automatically know to do.”

    You might want to tell the musims over here about this. They didnt get the memo.

    They hide among civilians before firing on convoys which causes said civilians to die when we defend the convoy. They commonly use women and children as human sheilds. Being captured by them means being tortured to death. They explode car bombs in civilian areas leading to the deaths of hundreds of innocents.

    Only a progressive American wouldnt know about the realities of this place. Progressives never serve.

    “But in the US military they are trained to kill from boot camp”

    We train for war, people do get killed in wars. I know its hard to believe but its the truth.

    Our ideology states that the other guy can die for his country, Ill be going home to a nice cold beer. He can have his coffin. We train for the absolute worste so we can be sure more of ours will go home alive than the opposition.

    A progressive finds the military hardcore and scary, the average working class American sees it as an honorable duty. Besides playing wth automatic weapons and hand grenades it isnt unlike any civilian job most times. Ive serve in the USMC and now in the Army, Im glad I dont share either with progressives.

    Our formost purpose is to defend the constitutional republic and the American way of life. Many American progressives demonize the military because the constitution is seen by them as a neo nazi document that must be destroyed. They dont want humanist freedom, they want freedom from having to make decisions, freedom from feeling offended. They correctly see us as standing between them and radical progressive revolution, thus we are an enemy to be demonized.

  • jackbelias

    “For instance: a small example. In the US women are exploited sexually. Sex sells donuts, chips, cars, everything is about sex, and it's all about debasing women. In Islam women are honored. We are not pressured to 'be sexual' in order to be accepted from an early age. We are modest – and we value our rights, and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was insistent upon those rights.”

    Women arent being debased by living in a free society. Many women like sex and personal freedom, the last thing they want is to be forced to cover up every square inch and be sold to the neighbors.

    Our idiot radical feminists have decided that lesbians wouldnt be looked at by men anymore if all women were forced to cover up. Those idiot lesbian feminists are the only bedfellows you have in terms of American women.

    When they get their way Im going to buy Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Sarah Brady, and Babera Boxer. I am going to put them to work on an aligator farm as pond cleaners immediatly after buying them.

  • CowboyUp

    One Sister's retired from Austin PD, and a cousin was a competition shooter as well. Nothing tickles me more than getting outshot by a girl;-) They are almost always easier to teach to shoot than guys. I sleep better knowing yall don't need me there to stop the baddest of the bad in their tracks.

    Dad would whip our butts if we even got too close to one 'til we were 5, then trained us to use them. He taught us woodcraft everytime we went camping, which was from infancy. He was in the Navy, but was a lifelong woodsman and rider (his greatest heartbreak was when he grew big, 'cause he wanted to be a jocky) and the best shot with rifle or pistol I've ever seen, though a Major in one of my Army units might have been better. At one time dad was 3rd nationally in quick draw competitions. I almost always prefer a rifle, but never competed.

    Gotta get to work, have a great day Dazey! Thanks for starting mine off so well, with such fond memories.

  • CowboyUp

    ROTFLMAO! Oh no, I’m a hate criminal! Jamillah’s going to tell the teacher! That’s a lot of comments you saved, I’ve been posting here for years, don’t forget my comments as “Rifleman “ further back in the archives. I’m quakin’ in my boots, is that a knock at my door? This is America Ahole, I’m free to speak my mind. Get used to it.

    I’d fear God too, if I condoned or did the things Islamic terrorists do. Weaklings that can’t control themselves or abide by the freedoms of others, I’ll just despise. If they’re smart, they’ll leave me be. Like the commies, they aren’t.

    Bring what? I’m eating your lunch, remember? You’re bringin’ it to me. You’re the one trying to forbid what I say or legally do, along with defending cop killers, yet somehow you are a victim and I’m threatening you? That’s awful neurotic. I’ve read enough of the koran to know that the crazy child molester considered the very existence of dar al haarb a threat to dar al islam, and calls for dar al islam’s expansion by force and fraud until dar al haarb no longer exists. That’s why the jihadi imam is here preaching death to America and all those practitioners of ‘the religion of peace’ are here plotting terrorist attacks against American civilians. Christians hauled in the eric rudolph, where are the muslim’s hauling these murderous Aholes in?

  • Dazey

    Hi Cowboy Up! I'm glad it brought fond memories and started your day off well! I have fond memories of my father, too. :-) You father sounds like a great man! I will have a great day, thank you so much! :-)

    And of course, have a great evening as well!