Getting the Finger from a Moderate Muslim – by Robert Spencer

Ali-Eteraz

Ali Eteraz is a liberal Muslim writer who, like Barack Obama, has not waited until he was old to write his memoirs: his book Children of Dust, according to the book website, is a “coming-of-age story” in which Eteraz “captures not merely pain, but also the love, laughter, and pathos of Muslim life.” It is not surprising that such a writer would grapple with issues related to Islamic jihad violence. What is surprising is how he has done so, and what the implications of his stances are for those who are betting everything on peaceful Muslims combating Islamic jihadists within Muslim communities.

Eteraz once stated feebly that peaceful Muslims should remain silent in the face of jihadist violence and supremacism, claiming that Martin Luther King, Jr., stayed silent in the face of racist oppression. That was preposterous enough, but now Eteraz has made an even more preposterous move, going from supine passivity to defiance:

During the salat, or prayer, Muslims raise their index finger to bear witness to the oneness of God. In America today, with all the calls for Muslims to condemn every little act of violence committed in the name of their religion, Muslims should start raising up the other finger. The middle one.

There is no need for one Muslim to condemn the crimes of another. Collective responsibility cannot, and should not, be accepted. Where one accepts collective responsibility one opens the door to collective punishment. Are Muslims individuals? Or are they one singular marionette that pirouettes each time its string is pulled?

The core assumption Eteraz makes here is that it is an exercise in collective responsibility that diminishes Muslims’ individuality if they are asked to condemn Islamic terrorist attacks. After all, Islam is not a monolith, as we are reminded endlessly. So if one Muslim believes that Islam teaches warfare against unbelievers and acts upon that belief, what does that have to do with Ali Eteraz, who presumably eschews such beliefs?

It’s a fair question. To what extent does membership in a group make one responsible for all the other members of that group? If one Christian does some evil deed and ascribes it to Christianity, are all Christians everywhere responsible for that?

Well, to a certain extent, yes. They wouldn’t rightly share any of the blame for it, but it would be incumbent upon them to show to those who might be concerned about a recurrence of such evil deeds that the way in which the evildoer used Christianity was actually wrong, and condemnable, and that they were working against such a recurrence by teaching against such false beliefs.

The point, in other words, is not collective responsibility at all. To blame all Muslims for the actions of jihadists would be asinine. But to take note of how those jihadists use Islam — its texts and core teachings — to justify violence and supremacism and warfare against unbelievers — and to ask peaceful Muslims what they’re doing to combat such teachings within the Muslim community is not asinine at all.

And it is not blaming anyone for anything he didn’t do. It is simply to ask someone like Eteraz this: “The jihadis say that they’re following the authentic path of Islam. If they’re correct, the implications of this would be many and ominous, for it would suggest that all Muslims, if they decided to follow the authentic path of Islam, would become jihadis — working either by violent or peaceful means to impose Sharia upon non-Muslims. You say you’re living out an authentic expression of Islam, and reject all that. Good. What case are you making against the jihadist understanding of Islam within the Muslim community? How are you combating it?”

I don’t think these are unreasonable questions. For if Muslims who profess to reject the jihadist understanding of Islam don’t fight against it, who will? And if they profess to reject the jihadist understanding of Islam but don’t do anything to stop its spread, of what ultimate value is their rejection of it? They may not be responsible for it, but since they profess Islam, shouldn’t they feel any responsibility to combat the jihadist claim to represent authentic Islam?

Apparently not. In years of calling for peaceful Muslims to present a viable alternative to the jihadist understanding of Islam, one that will convince Muslims not to take the jihadist path, we have seen numerous vague assertions that the jihadis are violating Islamic teaching; some vague condemnations of “terrorism” and attacks on “innocent civilians” that don’t define either term or rule out the jihadist understanding of Islam; some transparently flimsy constructions based on selective Qur’an quoting that will convince ignorant non-Muslims but not a single Muslim; and some “reformist” interpretations of Islam that roll out with much fanfare in the mainstream media but end up being only condemnations of attacks that kill other Muslims or attacks that don’t have state authority behind them (which latter point ignores the fact that in Islamic theology defensive jihad is incumbent upon every Muslim, state authority notwithstanding, and all contemporary jihads are presented as defensive).

And now we get the finger.

All right. I wouldn’t expect anything else from Ali Eteraz, but I do hope that some people who have been counting upon peaceful Muslims to work against the jihadists within Muslim communities will take careful note.

  • msfreeh

    to view a partial list of crimes committed by FBI agents over 1500 pages long see
    forums.signonsandiego. com/showthread.php?t=59139

    to view a partial list of FBI agents arrested for pedophilia see
    dallasnews. com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3574

  • guest

    IN THE NAME OF ALLAH MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.As a Muslim i dennounce any terrorist act against civilians and innocents.There is no verse on Quran nor the prophet Mohamed saying that support this crime and this biggest major sin . This who writes against muslims with his emotional speeches and rhetoric and has no firm basis of the Quran and Sunnah, should know that the prophet Mohamed forbids killing innocents by sayingDo not kill any man far advanced in years, nor a child, a baby, or a woman.In the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, declared the principle that people’s lives, property, and honor are inviolable until the Day of Judgment. This ruling is not restricted to Muslims; rather, it includes non-Muslims .According to another hadith, the Prophet once said, “By God, he is not a believer, by God, he is not a believer, by God, he is not a believer, with whom his neighbors are not secure.”In the holy QURAN,God says[Quran 49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.Therefore, the religion of Islam (Submission), advocates freedom, peace and mutual agreement and admonishes aggression. The following verses make it very clear.[Quran 5:87] …and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.[Quran: 7:199] …You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.The relations of Muslims (Submitters) with others are based primarily on peace, mutual respect and trust. The theme in the Quran is peace, unless there is oppression or injustice that cannot be resolved by all the peaceful means available.As for jihad is concerned,fighting without the permission of the legal elected ruler is a transgression against his rights and over stepping the mark. If it were permissible for the people to fight without the permission of the ruler, that would lead to chaos.Moreover, pledging allegiance to himBay’ah can only be given by the decision makers – i.e., the scholars and people of virtue and status. Once they give their allegiance to him, his position of leadership is confirmed, and the common folk do not have to give allegiance to him themselves, rather they have to obey him .The Prophet forbidden taking arms against the rulers and revolting against them even if they were unjust as long as long as they established prayers. He said this in order to prevent great corruption and evil that could emanate from taking arms against them.He also saidWhoever rebels against my Ummah and fights the righteous and unrighteous of them, does not avoid its believers and does not fulfill his obligation to whom he has a contract, then they are not from me and I am not from them . [Muslim 1848] .Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.ll of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur’an are in this context. There are some specific verses that are very often “snipped” out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: “slay them wherever you catch them” (Qur’an 2:191).But who is this referring to? Who are “they” that this verse discusses?The preceding and following verses give the correct context:“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression”(2:190193).for God loves those who are just.”These verse were revealed at a time when Muslims of Madinah were under constant attack from the Makkans. An example would be when the Makkans conducted the public crucifixion of the companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Khubaib bin Adi. These would be classified as ‘terrorist activities’ according to the modern usage of the term. So what does this verse say in this context? “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you”, “unless they (first) fight you there” – the context of this verse applies to those who initiate the attack against Muslims. And even after they attack, the verse makes it clear: “But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” And it also makes clear the purpose for what Muslims fight: “fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God”. It is the duty of Muslims to defend humanity from oppression and persecution and to establish justice. Muslims believe that God has placed us here on earth as his deputy or viceroy, and thus, it is our duty to enjoin the good and forbid the evil, to establish peace and justice in the land. Dr. Maher Hathout writes the following on verses 2:190-194:These verses were applicable to a particular situation or if, hypothetically, the same situation was to be repeated? Historically, fighting back against the aggressors was prohibited during the thirteen years of the Meccan period. After the migration to Medina and the establishment of the Islamic state, Muslims were concerned with how to defend themselves against aggression from their enemies. The aforementioned verses were revealed to enable them to protect the newly formed state by fighting in self-defence against those who fought them. However, the Qur’an clearly prohibits aggression. The verses explain that fighting is only for self-defence. Thus, a Muslim cannot commit aggression and kill innocent men, women, children, the sick, the elderly, monks, priests, or those who do not wish to fight. A Muslim is also mandated not to destroy plant life of livestock. (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, p.49, emphasis added)The historical context is something that must always be considered where developing an understanding of Qur’anic verses. Without knowing the circumstances behind the revelation, one cannot apply the verse as accurately.Anyone who examines the groups that have deviated from the Straight Path will see that they have confused the people by quoting a verse or a hadeeth out of context.Therefore,We as muslim stand united against all kinds of terrorism, as only through unity will we be able to eradicate terrorists and bring them to justice. We only serve the terrorists’ cause by name-calling and false accusations of everyone who happens to be a TRUE God-fearing Muslim.let conclude with this pactThis is the protection which the servant of God, ‘Umar, the Ruler of the Believers has granted to the people of Eiliya [Jerusalem]. The protection is for their lives and properties, their churches and crosses, their sick and healthy and for all their coreligionists. Their churches shall not be used for habitation, nor shall they be demolished, nor shall any injury be done to them or to their compounds, or to their crosses, nor shall their properties be injured in any way. There shall be no compulsion for these people in the matter of religion, nor shall any of them suffer any injury on account of religion… Whatever is written herein is under the covenant of God and the responsibility of His Messenger, of the Caliphs and of the believers, and shall hold good as long as they pay Jizya [the tax for their defense] imposed on them.”Those non-Muslims who took part in defense together with the Muslims were exempted from paying Jizya, and when the Muslims had to retreat from a city whose non-Muslim citizens had paid this tax for their defense, the tax was returned to the non-Muslims. The old, the poor and the disabled of Muslims and non-Muslims alike were provided for from the public treasury and from the Zakat funds knowing about islam should be taken from reliable muslim scholars.Moreover, The Methodologies for the study of hadith have been developed over centuries by Islamic scholars and jurists and are commonly referred to as the science of hadith study. Verification of hadith as reliable, and the use of hadith to verify or disavow Islamic practice, is left to Ulama, or Islamic scholars, with a deep understanding of Islamic jurisprudence and history.Since Islamic legal scholars were utilizing hadith as an adjunct to the Qur’an in their development of the Islamic legal system, it became critically important to have reliable collections of hadith. While the early collections of hadith often contained hadith that were of questionable origin, gradually collections of authenticated hadith called sahih (lit. true, correct) were compiled. Such collections were made possible by the development of the science of hadith criticism, a science at the basis of which was a critical analysis of the chain of (oral) transmission (isnad) of the hadith going all the way back to Muhammad. The two most highly respected collections of hadith are the authenticated collections the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. (Sahih literally means “correct, true, valid, or sound.”) In addition to these, four other collections came to be well-respected, although not to the degree of Bukhari and Muslim’s sahih collections. These four other collections are the Sunan of Tirmidhi, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, and Abu Da’ud. Together these four and the two sahih collections are called the “six books” (al-kutub al-sitta). Two other important collections, in particular, are the Muwatta of Ibn Malik, the founder of the Maliki school of law, and the Musnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, the founder of the Hanbali school of law. Recently i have come across some sites who to promote their own hatred against Islam and Muslim people, and so the hateful venom and slurs against God’s beautiful religion carry on.A good judge listens to the two parties before he gives his verdict.I really like American people .They are educated and enjoy such critical thinking.Therefore, i am inviting them to know the biography of the prophet Mohamed , his tradition and the tolerance of islam that calls for peace and mercy.These sites such as islamonline.net,rasoulallah.net are reliable sources to know about islam.Take my word for themu brother

    • vladdy

      Too much. But after reading the first few lines, I recognize the "no killing innocents." I'm sure readers here know that non-muslims are not consdered "innocent." And thankfully, Mr. Spencer (along with others) has let the cat out of the bag as far as the life of Mo goes. As a last resource, thereligionofpeace.com (be sure to use "the" or you get a propoganda site) will finishe up filling in any doubters about what's really going on.)

  • donnamarie

    Your point being…. Since some FBI agents have committed crimes or were pedophiles it is o.k. for Muslims to commit jihad and for peaceful ones to condone it. I have not looked at the list but I am fairly certain that the agents were dealt with. It really does not matter-two wrongs do not make it right.

  • guest

    Mr Spencer
    Having written the previous reply on terrorsom, this is my letter to you.
    I am muslim.I can not hate you nor terrorise u nor fight you on the basis of your belief.I respect jews and christains since we believe in the same God and i believe in their books .I love Jesus, Moses, David, Noah , Abraham.I believe in all of them and messengers without distinction.How come we believe in the same God who to hate you How come we love our same God to kill the innocent and his creatues.Those who kill innocent civilians are the deviant group.They are called al khwarij
    Those khwarij as u know .They represent themselves not Islam and muslims
    They are sometimes referred to as “the Defectors” [Mariqa], because of their defection [muruq] from the religion [din]. They were actually described by the Prophet himself (Allah bless him and give him peace) as people who would swerve away from the religion, just as the [hunter's] arrow may swerve away from the animal target, and who would not come back to the fold. Such indeed are they, for they have swerved away from the religion and from Islam. They have separated themselves off from the religious community [milla], breaking loose from it and from the loyal congregation [jama'a]. They have gone astray from the level course of right guidance and from the true path [sabil].

    They have withdrawn their allegiance from the ruling authority [sultan], and they have unsheathed the sword against the rightful leaders They have branded all who oppose them as unbelievers [kaffaru man khalafahum].
    terrorists are tarnishing the image of Islam by attaching their heinous crimes to the religion of Islam. Killing and terrorizing Innocent people and the destruction of property are condoned by Islam.

    Attributing all these horrific incidents to Islam is unjust. Muslims should tell the truth and unveil falseness, and inform all people that Islam is a religion of righteousness, betterment and progress
    Islam has forbidden violence in all its forms. It has forbidden hijacking airplanes, ships and other means of transport and has forbidden all acts that would undermine security,
    God commands justice and doing good and giving to relatives. And He forbids indecency and doing wrong and tyranny. He warns you so that hopefully you will pay heed.
    (Qur'an, 16:90)
    u brother

  • guest

    Mr Spencer
    Having written the previous reply on terrorsom, this is my letter to you.
    I am muslim.I can not hate you nor terrorise u nor fight you on the basis of your belief.I respect jews and christains since we believe in the same God and i believe in their books .I love Jesus, Moses, David, Noah , Abraham.I believe in all of them and messengers without distinction.How come we believe in the same God who to hate you How come we love our same God to kill the innocent and his creatues.Those who kill innocent civilians are the deviant group.They are called al khwarij
    Those khwarij as u know .They represent themselves not Islam and muslims
    They are sometimes referred to as “the Defectors” [Mariqa], because of their defection [muruq] from the religion [din]. They were actually described by the Prophet himself (Allah bless him and give him peace) as people who would swerve away from the religion, just as the [hunter's] arrow may swerve away from the animal target, and who would not come back to the fold. Such indeed are they, for they have swerved away from the religion and from Islam. They have separated themselves off from the religious community [milla], breaking loose from it and from the loyal congregation [jama'a]. They have gone astray from the level course of right guidance and from the true path [sabil].

    They have withdrawn their allegiance from the ruling authority [sultan], and they have unsheathed the sword against the rightful leaders They have branded all who oppose them as unbelievers [kaffaru man khalafahum].
    terrorists are tarnishing the image of Islam by attaching their heinous crimes to the religion of Islam. Killing and terrorizing Innocent people and the destruction of property are condoned by Islam.

    Attributing all these horrific incidents to Islam is unjust. Muslims should tell the truth and unveil falseness, and inform all people that Islam is a religion of righteousness, betterment and progress
    Islam has forbidden violence in all its forms. It has forbidden hijacking airplanes, ships and other means of transport and has forbidden all acts that would undermine security,
    God commands justice and doing good and giving to relatives. And He forbids indecency and doing wrong and tyranny. He warns you so that hopefully you will pay heed.
    (Qur'an, 16:90)
    u brother

  • popsiq

    So failure to speak out against sinners is to be construed as what? Abetting them?

    More of the same old 'with us,or agin' us' mentality that divides the world into doers of a self-defined 'good' or 'evil''. The same mentality that supports allied 'freedom fighters' and condemns non-allied 'terrorists'.

    Why not talk about the religization of politics, or the polliticization of religion. That's the real topic, isn't it?

  • 2maxpower

    you really need to read the full Qur'an. you can not just pick the quotes you like. by doing that you are not a good muslim.

  • 2maxpower

    the author has it right. you want it both ways. I know that is the duplicity of islam but to those who know better it is a lie.

  • 2maxpower

    is this how you plan to answer all questions ? blaming a different group for something. that is not only denial but morally dishonest. that is also not a surprise to me since one of the basic tenets of islam is duplicity

    you msfreeh are dishonest. morals are not part of your existence as they seem to have no place in islam.

  • Adheeb

    Islam always has and always will be the enemy of Christianity. Muslims believe that the Jewish & Christian Scriptures have been perverted … so although they claim to be 'friends' to the prophet Jesus, it is not the same Jesus that Christains serve and confess as Lord. The Jesus they are 'friends' to is a perversion created in there own image. This is true of the God of Abraham as well. Muslims do not worship the same God as do Christians and Jews. The Muslim god is a very different god. Islam is a religion of hatred and has no part in His Kingdom of Light & Peace.

  • tony_mowbray

    robert spencer, you are a joke. Please tell us what qualifications you have that are not made up.

  • Don Clyde

    The moderate Muslim has the same burden as many white Southerners had back in the 60's and earlier. Is it his duty to stand against the chauvinistic intolerance of others? For the white Southerners this cultural reformation was consistent with prevailing Christianity. Not so for the moderate Muslim. He must borrow to reform and that will not be easy.

    • vladdy

      The muslim has the same burden as the black theology people do today. Reform or leave if you would be trusted.

  • ChristianRightChick

    I attended an in-service on how to evangelize Muslims. The missionaries lived in Muslim countries their entire lives. They told us that HONOR is the most important character of Muslims, even above honesty and integrity. They are taught NOT to speak against another Muslim's activities, even if they do not agree with them.

    So, asking moderate Muslims to speak out against terrorism is a waste of time, because for any Muslim to speak out against another Muslim would dishonor Islam and their own family. Honor above all, even above terror activities.

  • YahyaJohn

    I am a Muslim. Why should I apologies for anything anyone else has done? I'm a human; does that mean I should apologize every time a human commits a crime? I'm an American? Should I apologize every time an American does some crime? I shouldn't. I have better things to do. I have schools to attend, work to perform, sustenance to earn, family to raise and feed.Ali Eteraz is right.

    “Islamic terrorism” is a western creation. You created the bed, now you sleep in it. You messed up these little 3rd world countries by supplying despotic leaders with weapons and the “good terrorists” stinger missles (Osama Bin Laden.) Now your little dogs are biting your hands. Deal with this mess quickly so we can all move along and stop having to read dirts that spews from froothing mouths of known islamophobes like frontpagemag.com.

  • http://twf.org/ TWF

    How do you define terrorism?

    This is how we view terrorism http://www.twf.org/Library/Terrorism.html

  • 2maxpower

    you are seriously twisted.

    why cann't Islamics take personal responsibility instead of blaming the west for all the evil they perpetrate.

    and why do you call them little dogs. is that just the fact you have trouble getting your head around your own duplicity ?

  • No Dhimmi

    The conceit and arrogance just drip off this guy's picture. A picture says a thousand words – nuff said.

  • Voltimand

    I see that the jihadists have tried to close down the discussion on this blog. Not surprising.

    I'll tell you what: muslims in this country are going increasingly to be forced to make a choice between two things: (1) come out strongly, unequivocally–without a lot of theological quibbling over what the Koran says or doesn't say–against muslim-driven terrorism against the U.SA.; (2) be forced to leave this country one way or another.

    In short, muslims living in and enjoying the freedom and protections which country affords all who live here–American citizens or not–are going to have to join America against its muslim enemies, or Americans are going to turn against them and deal with them with whatever means are required.

    Any muslim who wants to reply to me with a lot of muslim rhetoric, save it–not interested. The only thing I'm interested are the choices I've given above. It's very simple: either with America wholeheartedly, or your become the enemy. And look at the history of this country: its citizens do not take lightly threats or ideological/theological mumbo-jumbo that equivocate on 9/11 and its aftermath.

    If there is another attack on American soil, I hope that all muslims have their passports already in their hands and are already headed out the door for the nearest port or airport. By that point in time, there were be no more use for words.

    Do not, by any means, believe that the opinions expressed above are those of a minority of Americans.

    You have been warned.

  • Voltimand

    Read my comment below: this comment applies to you also.

  • cjkcjk

    You are full of poo-poo! Profit mo' was a murderous, thieving, pedophile who is regarded by all schools of mohammedanism as the perfect example for conduct.
    At the age of 51 he 'married' Aisha when she was 6 and later consummated that 'marriage' when she was only a hairless 9 ! What a freak pervert you worship!!!
    Profit mo' had Kinanah tortured to find his treasure and then finally beheaded…Then while his body was still warm he took his widow to 'wife' and promptly raped her.
    The wicked deedes done by mo' in the name of his demon god al' go on and on.

  • andyFree

    You made the point I was going to – Eteraz should not be in denial of the crimes and idiocies many Muslims are guilty of.

    But he needn't listen to any critics who are themselves in denial of the crimes and idiocies their buddies are guilty of. Truman seems to have refused the attempts of Japan to discuss surrender – far from shortening the war in the Pacific, the atom bomb probably lengthened it. Can Eteraz's critics deal with their own national crimes?

  • andyFree

    That's extremely interesting and may be very important. Has this effect ever been examined carefully by, say, an anthropologist?

    If not, I fear it's rather less important – everyone knows 1000s of people who refuse ever to criticise anything done by Americans. That doesn't make all patriotic Americans bad people and supporters of torture at Gitmo.

  • leonardk

    The Myth of the Moderate Muslim. That's what the average Westerner is dealing with: a myth. The very fact that the Muslim's “houses of worship,” their mosques, are used to preach war against infidels (aka “everyone else”), with clear focus on Jews, Israel, and Christians, gives the lie to their religion of “peace,” which are prayers for wanton destruction of civil society.

    Those constant assemblies by Hamas and Hezbollah, with tens of thousands of average Muslims, always preach warfare and hatred against the “people of the book,” presumably because the “book” and printed “words” of intellect are Islam's greatest threat, as the Arabs made clear when they burned down the great library in Alexandria.

    The “moderate” Muslim is the one too afraid to remain peaceful and remains inside their home, in silence. The moderate in effect does not exist outside the imagination of Westerners, mostly Christians, who cannot conceive of a religious bible that preaches warfare. Jews know better. Jews, along with Africa's blacks, were once slaves of Islam. When have Muslims declared their own war against their co-religionists who openly kill Muslim worshippers in their own mosques, or women and children shopping in their markets?

    The quickest way to defeat Islamic war against the West is to collapse the price of oil (with our self-imposed taxes) and then withdraw our peacemakers. Islam will self-destruct and then these “mythical moderates” will come out of hiding and beg the people of the book to help them rebuild.

  • kidbertha

    The last sentence to your second paragraph is the only piece of truth in your entire message. I think you meant to say those things are “condemned” by Islam. But you said “condoned” because this is actually what your Quran teaches.

  • guest

    Shall i be your guest for the third time.
    Before i make my comment on honor and and Muslim belief.Let us not to take a cursory look on CONVENTION OF THE ORGANISATION OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE ON COMBATING INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM.
    he Member States of the Organization of the Islamic Conference,

    Pursuant to the tenets of the tolerant Islamic Sharia which reject all forms of violence and terrorism, and in particular specially those based on extremism and call for protection of human rights, which provisions are paralleled by the principles and rules of international law founded on cooperation between peoples for the establishment of peace;

    Abiding by the lofty, moral and religious principles particularly the provisions of the Islamic Sharia as well as the human heritage of the Islamic Ummah.

    Adhering to the Charter of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, its objectives and principles aimed at creating an appropriate atmosphere to strengthen cooperation and understanding among Islamic States as well as relevant OIC resolutions;

    Adhering to the principles of International Law and the United Nations Charter as well as all relevant UN resolutions on procedures aimed at eliminating international terrorism, and all other conventions and international instruments to which states acceding to this Convention are parties and which call, inter alia, for the observance of the sovereignty, stability, territorial, integrity, political independence and security of states, and non-intervention in their international affairs;

    Proceeding from the rules of the Code of Conduct of the Organization of Islamic Conference for Combating International Terrorism;

    Desiring to promote cooperation among them for combating terrorist crimes that threaten the security and stability of the Islamic States and endanger their vital interests;

    Being committed to combating all forms and manifestations of terrorism and eliminating its objectives and causes which target the lives and properties of people;

    Confirming the legitimacy of the right of peoples to struggle against foreign occupation and colonialist and racist regimes by all means, including armed struggle to liberate their territories and attain their rights to self-determination and independence in compliance with the purposes and principles of the Charter and resolutions of the United Nations;

    Believing that terrorism constitutes a gross violation of human rights, in particular the right to freedom and security, as well as an obstacle to the free functioning of institutions and socio-economic development, as it aims at destabilizing States;

    Convinced that terrorism cannot be justified in any way, and that it should therefore be unambiguously condemned in all its forms and manifestations, and all its actions, means and practices, whatever its origin, causes or purposes, including direct or indirect actions of States;

    Recognizing the growing links between terrorism and organized crime, including illicit trafficking in arms, narcotics, human beings and money laundering;

    Have agreed to conclude this Convention, calling on all Member States of the Organization of the Islamic Conference to accede to it.

    Dear respectable brothers ,
    Islam does not allow assaulting a non-Muslim, violating his honor or property, or hurting him.I am here to express to you my gratitude for communicating with you and for exchaging ideas.Let me shake my hands with you.Let us pray our God for good-health and well-being and guidance.Let us send blessings upon our father Abraham ,Moses and all messangers.Let us thank and praise God for his holy books such as the Bible, Torah .
    The Moslems worship the God who has been the God of the Ancient and New Testament. They confess that “in order to be a good Moslem, you have to be a good Jew and a good Christian”, a statement of confessing to the truth of the other two religions.
    The name of Allah was taking by the Moslems from the Christians who existed five centuries before the arrival of Islam. Arabs were mentioned in the book of Acts at the time of the Pentecost.
    Please tell the Arab Christian's priests to throw away the Bible in Arabic, use English Bible instead [if the Arabic word "Allah" doesn't mean GOD].

    [Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]

    [Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

    “In the beginning God created
    the Heaven and the Earth . . . “

    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    “Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu
    as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . .
    Please tell the Arab Christian's priests to throw away the Bible in Arabic, use English Bible instead [if the Arabic word "Allah" doesn't mean GOD].

    [Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]

    [Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

    “In the beginning God created
    the Heaven and the Earth . . . “

    [Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
    “Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu
    as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . .
    GOD Almighty Has many Divine Attributes. Every “Name” for Him has a meaning. In Islam, there are 99 Divine Attributes for GOD Almighty.

    “Allah” in Arabic is “Elaw” in Aramaic. The Jews and Christians before Islam called GOD Almighty as “Allah” in the Middle East. “Allah” means the GOD Almighty that is above all gods (idols, humans, etc…). “Elaw” in Aramaic means “God” or “GOD”, and it means the same thing that the Arabic “Allah” means.

    As far as the honor is concerned,i believe that a muslim should be just and do not assist in wrongdoing others nor in bring them haram .
    God spoke to His Messenger in this manner:

    “O My slaves, I have forbidden injustice for Myself and forbade it also for you. So avoid being unjust to one another.” (Saheeh Muslim)
    And in another passage:

    “O you who believe, be upright for God, and (be) bearers of witness with justice!…” (Quran 5:8)
    The Quranic standards of justice transcend considerations of race, religion, color, and creed, as Muslims are commanded to be just to their friends and foes alike, and to be just at all levels, as the Quran puts it:

    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even if it be against yourselves, your parents, and your relatives, or whether it is against the rich or the poor…” (Quran 4:135)

    According to another Quranic passage:

    “Let not the hatred of a people swerve you away from justice. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness…” (Quran 5:8)

    With regards to relations with non-Muslims, the Quran further states:

    “God does not forbid you from doing good and being just to those who have neither fought you over your faith nor evicted you from your homes…” (Quran 60:8)
    Therefore, those who kill civilians , menace their freedom and safety should be brought to justice and to punish them for their evil acts.
    Before i conclude, i wouild like that u share this true story with me
    Amr ibn al-As was the governor of Egypt. One of his sons beat up a Coptic Christian with a whip, saying, ‘I am the son of a nobleman!” The Copt went to Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Muslim caliph who resided in the city of Medina, and lodged a complaint. These are the details as related by Anas ibn Malik, the personal servant of the Prophet in his lifetime:

    “We were sitting with Umar ibn al-Khattab when an Egyptian came in and said, ‘Commander of the Faithful, I come to you as a refugee.’ So, Umar asked him about his problem and he answered, Amr had a custom of letting his horses run free in Egypt. One day, I came by riding my mare. When I passed by a group of people, they looked at me. Muhammad, the son of Amr got up and came to me, saying, ‘I swear by the Lord of the Kaaba, this is my mare!’ I responded, ‘I swear by the Lord of the Kaaba, the mare is mine!’ He came up to me and began beating me with a whip, saying, ‘You may take her, because I am the son of a nobleman (meaning I am more generous than you).’ The incident got to Amr, who feared that I might come to you, so he put me in jail. I escaped, and here I am before you.”

    Anas continued:

    “I swear by God, the only response Umar made was to tell the Egyptian to take a seat. Then, Umar wrote a letter to Amr, saying, ‘When this letter reaches you, come and bring me your son, Muhammad.’ Then he told the Egyptian to stay in Medina until he was told Amr has arrived. When Amr received the note, he called his son and asked him, ‘Did you commit a crime?’ His son stated he has not. Amr asked, ‘Then why is Umar writing about you?’ They both went to Umar.”

    Anas narrates the incident further:

    “I swear by God, we were sitting with Umar, and Amr arrived wearing the clothes of common people. Umar looked around for the son, and saw him standing behind his father (to appear less conspicuous). Umar asked, ‘Where is the Egyptian?’ and he responded, ‘Here I am!’ Umar told him, ‘Here is the whip. Take it and beat the son of the nobleman.’ So he took it and beat him vigorously, while Umar said over and over, ‘Beat the son of the nobleman.’ We did not let him stop until we were satisfied he had beaten him enough. Then, Umar said, ‘Now you must take it and hit me on my bald head. This all happened to you because of my power over you.’ The Egyptian responded, ‘I am satisfied and my anger has cooled.’ Umar told him, ‘If you had beaten me, I would not have stopped you until you had wished to. And you, Amr, since when have you made the people your slaves? They were born free.’ Amr began to apologize, telling him, ‘I did not know that this is what happened.’ So, Umar said turned back to the Egyptian, telling him, ‘You may go, and be guided. If anything untoward happens to you, write to me.

    By the way have you heard of the prophet MOHAMED pact
    Amr ibn al-As was the governor of Egypt. One of his sons beat up a Coptic Christian with a whip, saying, ‘I am the son of a nobleman!” The Copt went to Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Muslim caliph who resided in the city of Medina, and lodged a complaint. These are the details as related by Anas ibn Malik, the personal servant of the Prophet in his lifetime:

    “We were sitting with Umar ibn al-Khattab when an Egyptian came in and said, ‘Commander of the Faithful, I come to you as a refugee.’ So, Umar asked him about his problem and he answered, Amr had a custom of letting his horses run free in Egypt. One day, I came by riding my mare. When I passed by a group of people, they looked at me. Muhammad, the son of Amr got up and came to me, saying, ‘I swear by the Lord of the Kaaba, this is my mare!’ I responded, ‘I swear by the Lord of the Kaaba, the mare is mine!’ He came up to me and began beating me with a whip, saying, ‘You may take her, because I am the son of a nobleman (meaning I am more generous than you).’ The incident got to Amr, who feared that I might come to you, so he put me in jail. I escaped, and here I am before you.”

    Anas continued:

    “I swear by God, the only response Umar made was to tell the Egyptian to take a seat. Then, Umar wrote a letter to Amr, saying, ‘When this letter reaches you, come and bring me your son, Muhammad.’ Then he told the Egyptian to stay in Medina until he was told Amr has arrived. When Amr received the note, he called his son and asked him, ‘Did you commit a crime?’ His son stated he has not. Amr asked, ‘Then why is Umar writing about you?’ They both went to Umar.”

    Anas narrates the incident further:

    “I swear by God, we were sitting with Umar, and Amr arrived wearing the clothes of common people. Umar looked around for the son, and saw him standing behind his father (to appear less conspicuous). Umar asked, ‘Where is the Egyptian?’ and he responded, ‘Here I am!’ Umar told him, ‘Here is the whip. Take it and beat the son of the nobleman.’ So he took it and beat him vigorously, while Umar said over and over, ‘Beat the son of the nobleman.’ We did not let him stop until we were satisfied he had beaten him enough. Then, Umar said, ‘Now you must take it and hit me on my bald head. This all happened to you because of my power over you.’ The Egyptian responded, ‘I am satisfied and my anger has cooled.’ Umar told him, ‘If you had beaten me, I would not have stopped you until you had wished to. And you, Amr, since when have you made the people your slaves? They were born free.’ Amr began to apologize, telling him, ‘I did not know that this is what happened.’ So, Umar said turned back to the Egyptian, telling him, ‘You may go, and be guided. If anything untoward happens to you, write to me

  • guest

    , Allow me to introduce the prophet Mohamed pact with christains of Najran and treaty with jews.Pls bring me evidence that muslims illtreated jews when they were under islam ruling.
    be upon him]
    PACT OF NAJRAN

    PACT OF NAJRAN

    In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

    This pact of Muhammad (S.A.W.), Prophet of Allah is for the people of Najran.

    1. Although Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.), had the power to take a share from their produce, gold, silver, weapons and slaves, he treated the people generously and leaving aside all these things, he fixed for them two thousand hullas of the value of one Auqia each, annually — one thousand (to be supplied) in the month of Rajab and one thousand in the month of Safar.

    2. Each Hulls shall be of the value of one Auqia and whichever is of more or less value, shall be accounted for accordingly.

    3. If instead of Hullas, something like armours or horses or riding camels are given it shall be accepted in accordance with its evaluation.

    4. It shall be obligatory on the people of Najran to arrange for the stay of my workers. But they will have to pay taxes within one month. They should not be made to stay far more than a month.

    5. If due to a rebellion in Yemen we have to wage war, the people of Najran will have to lend 30 armours, 20 horses and 30 camels. If any of the animals are lost, the people of Najran shall be provided substitutes.

    6. The lives of the people of Najran and its surrounding area, their religion, their land, property, cattle and those of them who are present or absent, their messengers and their places of worship are under the protection of Allah and guardianship of His Prophet.Their present state shall neither be interfered with, nor their rights meddled with, nor their idols deformed. No Usqu (Bishop) Rahib or Waqa, shall be removed from his office. The intention being that no change in whatever state every one is; shall be made (status quo shall be maintained).

    7. Neither the people shall be punished for any past crime or murder, nor shall they be compelled to do military service. Neither shall Ushr be imposed on them nor any army shall enter their area.

    8. If any one of the people of Najran demands his rights, justice shall be done between the plaintiff and respondent. Neither oppression shall be allowed to be perpetrated on them, nor shall they be permitted to oppress any one.

    9. Whoever from the people of Najran takes interest alter the conclusion of the pact, shall be excluded from my assurance.

    10. No one from the people of Najran shall be implicated in the crime of someone else.

    11. Whatever has been written in this pact, Allah and Muhammad His Prophet (S.A.W.) are guarantors for it, unless there is an order from Allah, in this connection, and as long as the people of Najran remain faithful and adhere to the conditions which have been made for them, except that some one compels them to do otherwise.

    Seal: Allah’s Prophet Muhammad

    Note: Najran which was the biggest centre of Christianity in Arabia is a district of north Yemen. There was a very splendid Cathedral which the Christians regarded as their Kaaba. Large estate attached to the Cathedrals was a source of big income. When the people of Najran received the letter of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.), they sent a delegation to the Prophet (S.A.W.), which studied the conditions and had discussions. The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.), invited them to a Mubahila (Invocation of Allah’s Curse an the party which is in the wrong) and asked them to pray to Allah along with their kith and kin, to send His Curse on the liars. The delegation did not accept the challenge lest they should be destroyed and agreed to conclude a pact.

    With our cousin the jews,
    The most important provisions of the treaty were as follows:

    1. The Jews of the tribe of ‘Awf were to be one community with the believers. The Jews would profess their religion and the Muslims theirs.

    2. The Jews would be responsible for their expenditure, and the Muslims for theirs.

    3. If attacked by a third party, each would come to the assistance of the other.

    4. Each party would hold counsel with the other. Mutual relations would be founded on righteousness; sin was totally excluded.

    5. Neither group would commit sins to the prejudice of the other.

    6. The wronged party would be aided.

    7. The Jews would contribute to the cost of any war, so long as they were fighting alongside the believers.

    8. Al-Madeenah would remain sacred and inviolable for all who would join this treaty.

    9. If any disagreement were to arise between the signatories of this treaty, then Allah the All-High and His Messenger would settle the dispute.

    10. The signatories to this treaty would boycott Quraysh commercially; they would also abstain from extending any support to them.

    11. Each would contribute to defending Al-Madeenah, in case of a foreign attack, in its respective area.

    12. This treaty would not hinder either party from seeking lawful revenge.

  • Atlas_Collins

    The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were wonderful things as they saved thousands of American lives. And all the Nips who were fried to burnt chromosomes in those two bombing were not worth the life of a single American.

    That being said, let's be clear that there is not a single muslim on the face of this planet that can be trusted not to engage in a spontaneous act of Jihad violence; therefore all muslims represent a clear danger to pubic order, and as such should be immediately rounded up, interned and deported.

    Islam is evil and all muslims have abrogated their humanity by following such an evil ideology of hatred and intolerance.

    Islam Delenda Est!

  • guest

    cjkcjk
    Thank you for u words.The answer about the prophet marriage with Aicha
    What about Mary, Jesus' Mother How old was she when she got pregnant?
    Joseph, Mary's husband, was “90 years old” when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary
    King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

    King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

    , King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

    Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society.
    did the prophet force Abu Bakr her father to accept the marriage
    - were sexual acts performed when Aisha was six
    - had Aisha reached puberty when her marriage was consummated
    - did Aisha consent to the marriage
    - does the Quran and Islam permit consummation to prepubescent girls
    - did Prophet Muhammad invent Islam to satisfy his sexual desires

    Sorry for making typing mistakes, i still reiterate that islam condemns acts of terrorism.
    The barbarism that is happening in the world today under the name of “Islamic Terrorism” is completely removed from the moral teachings of the Qur'an; it is the work of ignorant, bigoted people, criminals who have nothing to do with religion. The solution which will applied against these individuals and groups who are trying to commit their deeds of savagery under the guise of Islam, will be the instruction of people in the true moral teaching of Islam.

    In other words, the religion of Islam and the moral teaching of the Qur'an are not the supporters of terrorism and the terrorists, but the remedy by which the world can be saved from the scourge of terrorism.

  • guest

    Shall i say to you good bye and thank you for taking time to read my answers.
    .I was happy to talk to you.Believe me i came across this site .After i had read this article, i wanted to denounce terrorism and i still stress that these terrorists represent themselves.I do not hate you and i can not hate you .I respect all people regardles to their beliefs, race, country and color
    . Blaming muslim people for the crime that they have not committed and is a discrimination. Cultural identity in (almost) in the USA and in every European country or includes churches, mosques and synagogues and some other religious buildings. They are used by CITIZENS.

    I am not imposing my will on anybody nor my religion and belief . I am exercising my right of free speech. Of course USA is a civilised nation belonging to the world community and family . Be careful i am not u enemy nor a terrorist…I am peaceful whose goal to be succesful in my personal and professional life. I really like putting smile on the lips of the needy, orphans , eldery, children and each soul living on this earth.

    Sincerly yours
    U brother

  • cjkcjk

    So profit mo' was just when he raped killed and sold innocent people into slavery?
    The Jihadists everywhere are following the profit mohammed's (piss be upon him) example.
    This is just all so disgusting and filthy! Defending mo' the profit is worse than defending Hitler.
    Well spoke the prophet Jeremiah of mohammedians when he stated 'woe unto those who call evil good and light darkness.

  • 1Indioviejo1

    To my Mudslime enemies that comment on this site I say: NOTHING that you say means anything to me. I concur with Voltimand about your choices, but I also agree with some one else about the need for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. Just as these events were necessary for the redemption of Japan, so was Dresden, and Hamburg, and Berlin, etc.,etc., were very needed in order to make Germany a civilized nation. I believe thanks are in order for having liberated these two evil countries from the malignancy they suffered as societies. Unfortunately, mudslimes cannot be liberated from their satanic cult. They can be bombed into submission and contained. After the great upheaval, we have to be eternally vigilant and ready to do it again. That's the only way.

  • cjkcjk

    You mean zoologist.

  • cjkcjk

    mohammedanism promotes a stone idol named allah to a supreme god among those idols which is why they still go to mecca to adore him.
    MOHAMMEDANISM IS SUPREME IDOLATRY. Look at the fool crowds who trample one another to kiss a stone!!!??? LOL.
    Because I hate Satan, therefore I hate mohammedanism.
    Why say there is 'no god but allah' and not 'there is no allah but allah'?.. and his profit is a pedophile?
    the translated word Ilah is God in Arabic.
    allah is the proper name of the kabba stone/ moon demon that the thieving, murderous, pedophile mo' worshipped.
    Christians in mohammadian dominated nations have to translate the word God as allah out of fear and intimidation over the years.

  • cjkcjk

    More lying mohammedan poo-poo.

  • cjkcjk

    As always the mohammedans divert attention away from the despicable fiend that they worship by pointing to others just like children.
    No where is Mary's age mentioned in the Bible.
    Only a perverted turd has sex with a hairless child of 9 regardless of his 'culture'…No to mention that he was 54 at the time.
    Profit mo' stated that he had become powerful and feared through terrorism.
    Mohammedans worship a perverted, terroristic, pedophile.
    You need to study your scriptures (queeran and Hadiths) in depth to understand what kind of fiend you're following into hell.

  • Don

    I can give you almost 200 verses in the Qur'an to contridict everything you've written. I can prove you are a liar.

    But what I'd like you to answer is this: Why is it that 99.5% of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims? Why are none of those acts roundly denounced by the ummah, and yet the ummah goes nuts over a cartoon, or Salmon Rushdie getting a Knighthood, or the Pope quoting an ancient scholar's opinion of Islam? Why have there been over ten thousand separate acts of terror in the name of Islam in this decade? Why is that Thai buddhists are being slaughetered in their own country on a weekly basis by Muslims? Filippino Catholics murdered in their own country by Islamists? Pakistani Christians almost daily in Lahore and Punjab province? Why are Sunni killing Shia and Shia killing Sunni in the name of their religion throughout the ME? Why are fatwas being put on the heads of anyone who insults Islam? Why does Wafa Sultan have to hide? Why are a half dozen Danish cartoonists in hiding? I could go on, but let's just start with these.

  • glennd1

    Go back to a Muslim country now. You and your ilk aren't welcome here. This ain't Europe, pal, we won't just kowtow like feckless weenies to your pre-modern cult of death and repression. Mohammed was a child molesting, war making pig and your Allah is a disgusting, vicious delusion. I have no respect for any religion, but Islam is particularly repugnant. Anyone who takes time to read your hate filled Koran and Hadith will quickly realize that it's an insane belief system that only a sadist could support.

  • Timmy

    I'm not calling for it to happen immediately but I absolutely believe that if the world is to survive with whatever “freedoms” however limited or imperfect they are, at some point some infidel power is going to have to destroy Mecca and select other Islamic sites in the same way that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed. Mecca of course will need to be not only destroyed but left radioactive (like Chernobyl) so that it will be quite literally IMPOSSIBLE for Muslims to fulfill that one of the five pillars which is the pilgrimage to Mecca. The Muslim world needs to be hit so hard that it forever gives up grand Jihad dreams of conquering the whole world.

  • Timmy

    If someone declares today that they are a Nazi, they are condemned for standing with the evils that Nazism committed. They may be a perfectly fine “individual” who has never killed a Jew or anyone else but by joining with the Nazis they take the blame. Islam has done more evil in history to Jews and to Christians and others than Nazism ever dreamed of doing. By declaring that you are a Muslim you are saying that all those evil atrocities are OK by you. Leave Islam and join the human race.

  • Timmy

    He can read! And then he reports to the rest of us what he reads! Amazing isn't it? You should try it sometime.

  • gaustin

    As a muslim raised near Cairo I can attest to the spirit of islam.I converted away from that satanic cult and can share with all. If you follow a pedophile, rapist, murdered, liar, thief, cheat and child molester it kills your soul. muslims are dead inside. The men are only concerned about power And control ove anything they can be it family, co-workers, followers. When a book of guidance states it is OK to lie, steal, cheat, murder, rape and you follow this, after awhile you stop remembering what it felt like to have guilt. Guilt for the little boy you ruined, the mother whos spouse you killed before raping her. This is the real islam. Please put them down while it is possible.

  • Nemesister

    Just as I thought: Muslims should be eradicated. Enough is enough.

  • idviking

    A sad commentary. If the Islamic “moderates” are interested in assimilation into the culture of the USA then of course they need to openly reject the calls to jihad that demand they kill all non-believers. They are not usually silent after an attack, which is coincidentally occurring more and more frequently of late. The first cry usually from the “moderates” is for protection from the irrational people that would do them harm(which oddly enough rarely seems to happen) after their fellow believer just murdered some more Americans.
    If the phrase “all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing' is true then Mr. Eteraz has already chosen his path. Flipping off people that are trying to give the “moderates” an opportunity to do the right thing hardly seems like the act of a man interested in reconciliation.

  • gsw

    “You are a muslim” this means you pay money towards the upkeep of the umma, its imams and the mosques. You conform to various practices and condone certain behaviour.

    Financial support for ANY group means shared responsibility for its works.

    Democratic countries have various methods (some of which actually work) to kerb the activities of those paid to decide what the community – as a whole – will or will not do. Progress insures that these practises and laws conform to the ethical considerations that are a result of newly discovered truths in medicine, anthropology, psychology and empathy.

    Caliphates do not have this feedback system and are therefore static.

    Most religions have misused their power to torture, kill, enslave etc. Most have raised dependence to a virtue and independence to a sin: Submission; humility; obedience=good; Independent thought; science; freedom of speech=bad.

    If you insist on remaining a member of the club, you must also accept being blamed for those activities of the club which you do not explicitly condemn.

  • goosebumps

    So what.. Shove it!

  • goosebumps

    If all these moderates deny the violence and immorality of Islam then I would like to hear what they believe in versus what they do not believe in. If you take away all the violence, power hunger, misogyny, pedophilia, destruction of the infidel, etc. etc. What is left? What does it look like? Make it short, I haven't got all day.

  • Timmy

    “If all these moderates deny the violence and immorality of Islam then I would like to hear what they believe in versus what they do not believe in.”

    They would really love to tell you but they can't because they don't want to be killed by the other Muslims. And that would ironically prove that they were wrong.

  • abdullah

    cjkcjk
    Was Aisha engaged to someone else before she got engaged to Muhammad?
    4- The Middle Eastern and other Cultures.
    5- What about Aisha's parents (mom and dad), are they too “Child Molesters”?
    6- More on Aisha's Marriage and its acceptance by the Arab culture back then.
    7- But still, she is considered a child in our standards today!
    8- Was Muhammad a pedophile?
    9- The life span 1400 years ago was short.
    In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

    In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

    In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

    In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

    According to the “Oxford Dictionary Bible” commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.

    The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12
    pls visit this site
    http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
    Regarding the Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:

    “When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord's brother”). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.”
    The Catholic Encyclopaedia goes on to conclude “…retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God.” If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting “Mother of God” (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why do they raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?

    pls before u charge or speak about him , provide me with evidences and authenticated references
    - 1- Did the Prophet Marry Aisha at the age of 6?

    Authentic Hadith reports do show us that the prophet Muhammad did marry Aisha at the age of 6, but they also show the consummation of the marriage was complete when she was 9 years old.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
    One must first understand that 1400 years ago was very different than now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was something very common to marry young girls, in fact they were not considered young girls, rather they were considered young women back then. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were being married in Europe, Asia, and Africa, in fact even in the United States girls at the age of 10 were also being married just more than a century ago.
    Yet with these facts no historian claims that all these people were sick perverts, historians would call anyone who made such a claim to be arrogant and very stupid who has no grasp or understanding of history.

    Furthermore as to the prophets Marriage with Aisha, something people will notice is that the completion of the marriage was done when Aisha was 9 years old, not when she was 6, and there is a reason for that. The reason why this happened is because Aisha had been through puberty by the age of 9, and in Islam a female who under-goes puberty is considered a lady and is fit for marriage. Now some may say how does a girl go through puberty at the age of 9? :

    When does puberty start? Although puberty usually starts between ages 8 to 13 in girls, it may start earlier or later. Everyone's body changes at a different time. Whether you have breasts at age 10 or have not started your period by age 14, do not worry. Everyone goes through puberty eventually.
    Firstly, Prophet’s proposal to `Aisha came through a suggestion made by Khawalh bint Hakim as a sign of strengthening the relation with his Companion Abu Bakr and confirming his love for him.

    Secondly, the fact that `Aisha, before the Prophet proposed to her, was being pursued by Jubair ibn Mut`am, indicates that she was mature enough for marriage, according to the prevailing tradition at that time, if not, the Quraish people, who would never waste any chance to insult the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would have found this marriage as a golden opportunity to pour on him rain of insults. Rather they found nothing wrong in this engagement, and they received the news of the Prophet’s proposal for `Aisha as something usual, and even, expected.

    `Aisha was not the first case, for many girls married at her same age to men who were at their fathers’ age. Hala, the cousin of Amina bint Wahb was married to Abdul-Muttalib on the same day his son `Abdullah married Aminah bint Wahb who was at Hala’s same age. Also, the Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab married the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah honor his face, while he was at her grandpa’s age.

    After the passage of many centuries, we find now some Orientalists who try to strike a comparison between the conditions of our present time and what was existing 1400 years ago. They are trying to apply the criterions of the Western society to that society that existed in the Arabian Peninsula very long ago.

    It should be noted that in the hot regions, it’s normal for a girl to attain maturity at a very early age. Thus the case is totally different from that which does exist in the cold regions where a girl does not attain puberty before 21 [Physicians maintain that the age of puberty in the hot regions normally ranges from 9 to 16]. At all rates, it should be stressed that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, on marrying `Aisha, never aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire; rather, his aim was to strengthen his relation with the most beloved Companion of his.

    Had it been true that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire, he would have done this while still in his youth when he was still free from the responsibilities of delivering Allah’s call. At his early age, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, accepted to marry Khadija, may Allah be pleased with her, who was 15 years older than him. He also never married a new wife until after her death. Even after her passing away, his new wife Sawdah bint Zam`ah was an old-aged widow who possessed no particular appealing qualities. This adds to our certainty that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had many great lofty aims behind his marriages. Also, when Khawlah bint Hakim suggested to him to marry`Aisha, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, thought thoroughly whether to accept or to refuse. He took into consideration his relation with Abu Bakr.

    When `Aisha reached the Prophet’s house, Sawdah gave her the first place and took care of her till her death.. Afterwards, `Aisha remained a faithful wife to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him; her 10 years of marriage were of the life of a fully dedicated disciple, trainee and scholarly student in the noble Prophetic school. She was the source of knowledge for almost every Companion. She was of the main sources for revealing knowledge and information of the private life of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. She was a big celebrity in politics and the best example of generosity.

    The Prophet’s love for `Aisha was a sign of his love for her father. On being asked about the dearest person to his heart, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned `Aisha. Then, on being asked about the dearest man to him and he, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned her father, Abu Bakr

    Let look at these prophet sayings on good manners
    Greetings in Islam:

    Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran commands us to return a greeting with a better one or at least an equal one. We must maintain the high standards in manners and always be the best examples.

    Let us look at Noble Verse 4:86 “When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things.”

    The necessary correlative to the command to fight in a good cause is the command to cultivate sweetness and cordiality in our manners at all times. For fighting is an exceptional necessity while the sweetness of daily human intercourse is a normal need. Further, we give kindness and courtesy without asking, and return it if possible in even better terms than we received, or at least in equally courteous terms. For we are all creatures of One GOD, and shall be brought together before Him.

    8- Respect and honor your guests:

    Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said:

    Narrated Abu Shuraih Al-Khuza'i: “My ears heard and my heart grasped (the statement which) the Prophet said, “The period for keeping one's guest is three days (and don't forget) his reward.” It was asked, “What is his reward?” He said, “In the first night and the day he should be given a high class quality of meals; and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should entertain his guest generously; and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should talk what is good (sense) or keep quiet.” (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, To make the Heart Tender (Ar-Riqaq), Volume 8, Book 76, Number 483)”

    Narrated Abu Huraira: “Allah's Apostle said, “Anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should not harm his neighbor, and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should talk what is good or keep quiet. (i.e. abstain from all kinds of evil and dirty talk). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 47)”

    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As: “Once Allah's Apostle came to me,” and then he narrated the whole narration, i.e. your guest has a right on you, and your wife has a right on you. I then asked about the fasting of David. The Prophet replied, “Half of the year,” (i.e. he used to fast on every alternate day). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Fasting, Volume 3, Book 31, Number 195)”

    9- Respecting others' properties:

    Allah Almighty commands us to respect people's properties and not to be transgressors.

    Let us look at Noble Verses 24:27-28 “27. O ye believe! Enter not houses other than your own, until ye have asked permission and saluted those in them: that is best for you, in order that ye may heed (what is seemly).

    28. If ye find no one in the house, enter not until permission is given to you: if ye are asked to go back, go back: That makes for greater purity for yourselves: and Allah Knows well all that ye do.”

    The conventions of propriety and privacy are essential to a refined life of goodness and purity. The English saying that an Englishman's home is his castle, suggests a certain amount of exclusiveness and defiance. The Muslim principle of asking respectful permission and exchanging salutations ensures privacy without exclusiveness and friendliness without undue familiarity.

    That is, if no one replies: there may be people in the house not in a presentable state. Or, even if the house is empty, you have no right to enter it until you obtain the owner's permission, wherever he may be. The fact of your not receiving a reply does not entitle you to enter without permission. You should wait, or knock twice or three times, and withdraw in case no permission is received. If you are actually asked to withdraw, as the inmates are not in a condition to receive you, you should a fortiori withdraw, either for a time, or altogether, as the inmates may wish you to do. Even if they are your friends, you have no right to take them by surprise or enter against their wishes. You own purity of life and conduct as well as of motives is thus tested.

    “They ask thee Concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs To mark fixed periods of time In (the affairs of) men, And for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter Your houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses Through the proper doors: And fear Allah: That ye may prosper. (The Noble Quran, 2:189)”

    Note on Noble Verse 2:189: The English translator wrote “enter Your houses from the back”. This is a mistranslation, because in Arabic it says: “taato AL-BOYOOTA min thohooriha”, which literally means “enter THE HOUSES from the back”.

    So the Noble Verse should read as:

    “They ask thee Concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs To mark fixed periods of time In (the affairs of) men, And for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter the houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses Through the proper doors: And fear Allah: That ye may prosper. (The Noble Quran, 2:189)”

    According to this Noble Verse, Muslims are not allowed to sneak up on people from their back yards or back doors. Since back doors and back yards are strictly for private use and not public, then it would be inappropriate for a Muslim to enter anyone's house from the back, because it would be a form of an invasion of privacy and rudeness.

    Those who deliberately violate this law from Allah Almighty will be punished, because Allah Almighty said: “It is virtue if ye fear Allah…..” and “And fear Allah: That ye may prosper.” in the Noble Verse.

    10- Do not be a stuck-up!

    Allah Almighty commands us not to be stuck-up. He commands us to be laid back and down to earth type of people.

    Let us look at Noble Verse 17:37 “Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou can not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.”

    “And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for God loveth not any arrogant boaster. (The Noble Quran, 31:18)”

    Insolence, or arrogance, or undue elation at our powers or capacities, is the first step to many evils. Besides, it is unjustified. All our gifts are from Allah Almighty.

    11- No offensive name calling is allowed! And do not look down on others!

    “O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong. (The Noble Quran, 49:11)”

  • abdullah

    2maxpower
    i do not agree with u
    What should the Muslim’s attitude be towards differences that arise between the scholars? In other words, which scholarly opinion should the Muslim follow in matters where they differed? The answer depends:

    1 – If the Muslim is one who has studied shar’i knowledge and learned its basic principles and minor issues, and he can distinguish right from wrong with regard to scholarly views, then he has to follow that which he thinks is correct and ignore that which he thinks is wrong.

    2 – If he is one of the rank and file, or has not studied shar’i knowledge, and thus cannot distinguish between right and wrong with regard to scholarly views, then he must follow the fatwa of a scholar whose knowledge he trusts and who he believes to be trustworthy and religiously committed, whether he is from his own country or another country, and differences between scholars will not matter after that. He does not have to change what he is doing because he hears another scholar issuing a fatwa that differs from the one he is following, unless he realizes that what he learned later on is the correct view, on the basis of his confidence in the religious commitment and knowledge of the second Shaykh

    Certainly there are qualifications and conditions which the person must fulfill before allowing himself or herself to issue fatwas. Those qualifications may be summarized into the following:

    1. Mastering the science of principles of jurisprudence,

    2) Mastering the science of Hadith,

    3) Mastering the science of Maqasid ash-Shari`ah (Objectives of Shari`ah),

    4) Mastering legal maxims,

    5) Mastering the science of comparative religions,

    6) Mastering the foundations of social sciences,

    7) Knowing Arabic, and

    8) Having sufficient knowledge of social realities.

    The abovementioned sciences are meant to help and enable the person to issue fatwas or opinions in accordance with the principles of Islamic teachings. Certainly, he or she must be qualified and have the basics and essences of these sciences, especially the sciences of principles of jurisprudence and the objectives of Shari`ah.

    Not every individual has the right to issue Fatwasor his view and make pronouncements on matters. A Mufti must be qualified and of profound knowledge. He has to be able to know the evidence, the wording and apparent meaning of the texts, what is Sahih (authentic) and what is Da`if (weak), An-Nasikh wal-Mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated), what is specific in application and what is general, and what is stated in brief and what is mentioned in detail.

    This needs lengthy experience and practice, knowledge of the various branches of Fiqh and where to look for information, knowledge of the opinions of the scholars and jurists, and memorization or knowledge of the religious texts. The Mufti should be knowledgeable and rich in life experience. We cannot imagine him to live in an ivory tower and turn a blind eye to life around him.

    Undoubtedly, issuing Fatwas without having qualification to do so is a grave sin. Allah has warned us against that, saying: “And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: “This is lawful, and this is forbidden,’ so that ye invent a lie against Allah. Lo! Those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed.” (An-Nahl: 116)”
    fatwa means opinion

  • abdullah

    2maxpower
    i do not agree with u
    What should the Muslim’s attitude be towards differences that arise between the scholars? In other words, which scholarly opinion should the Muslim follow in matters where they differed? The answer depends:

    1 – If the Muslim is one who has studied shar’i knowledge and learned its basic principles and minor issues, and he can distinguish right from wrong with regard to scholarly views, then he has to follow that which he thinks is correct and ignore that which he thinks is wrong.

    2 – If he is one of the rank and file, or has not studied shar’i knowledge, and thus cannot distinguish between right and wrong with regard to scholarly views, then he must follow the fatwa of a scholar whose knowledge he trusts and who he believes to be trustworthy and religiously committed, whether he is from his own country or another country, and differences between scholars will not matter after that. He does not have to change what he is doing because he hears another scholar issuing a fatwa that differs from the one he is following, unless he realizes that what he learned later on is the correct view, on the basis of his confidence in the religious commitment and knowledge of the second Shaykh

    Certainly there are qualifications and conditions which the person must fulfill before allowing himself or herself to issue fatwas. Those qualifications may be summarized into the following:

    1. Mastering the science of principles of jurisprudence,

    2) Mastering the science of Hadith,

    3) Mastering the science of Maqasid ash-Shari`ah (Objectives of Shari`ah),

    4) Mastering legal maxims,

    5) Mastering the science of comparative religions,

    6) Mastering the foundations of social sciences,

    7) Knowing Arabic, and

    8) Having sufficient knowledge of social realities.

    The abovementioned sciences are meant to help and enable the person to issue fatwas or opinions in accordance with the principles of Islamic teachings. Certainly, he or she must be qualified and have the basics and essences of these sciences, especially the sciences of principles of jurisprudence and the objectives of Shari`ah.

    Not every individual has the right to issue Fatwasor his view and make pronouncements on matters. A Mufti must be qualified and of profound knowledge. He has to be able to know the evidence, the wording and apparent meaning of the texts, what is Sahih (authentic) and what is Da`if (weak), An-Nasikh wal-Mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated), what is specific in application and what is general, and what is stated in brief and what is mentioned in detail.

    This needs lengthy experience and practice, knowledge of the various branches of Fiqh and where to look for information, knowledge of the opinions of the scholars and jurists, and memorization or knowledge of the religious texts. The Mufti should be knowledgeable and rich in life experience. We cannot imagine him to live in an ivory tower and turn a blind eye to life around him.

    Undoubtedly, issuing Fatwas without having qualification to do so is a grave sin. Allah has warned us against that, saying: “And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: “This is lawful, and this is forbidden,’ so that ye invent a lie against Allah. Lo! Those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed.” (An-Nahl: 116)”
    fatwa means opinion