Denying the Truth on Turkey

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Another story last week casts doubt on whether Israel, the U.S., or any country that lays claim to being civilized should be trying to get along with Turkey. Der Spiegel reported that

German experts have confirmed the authenticity of photographs that purport to show PKK fighters killed by chemical weapons. The evidence puts increasing pressure on the Turkish government, which has long been suspected of using such weapons against Kurdish rebels….

The report continued:

It would be difficult to exceed the horror shown in the photos, which feature burned, maimed and scorched body parts. The victims are scarcely even recognizable as human beings. Turkish-Kurdish human rights activists believe the people in the photos are eight members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) underground movement, who are thought to have been killed in September 2009.

The article goes on to note that “Hans Baumann, a German expert on photo forgeries has confirmed the authenticity of the photos,” and that “a forensics report…by the Hamburg University Hospital has backed the…suspicion, saying that it is highly probable that the eight Kurds died ‘due to the use of chemical substances.’”

The issue appears to transcend politics: a co-chair of the far-left Green Party says there have been repeated “mysterious incidents of this type that are crying out for an independent investigation,” while a parliamentarian of the conservative Christian Democratic Union says, “Turkey needs to look urgently into these accusations.” A Turkey expert with International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War says, “Turkey has been suspected of using chemical weapons for years.”

Do the atrocities, if they’re real, go back to the advent of Erdogan’s Islamist AK Party in 2002, or back further to the days of Turkey’s supposed moderation? Will the same world that goes into overdrive investigating the flotilla incident get interested enough in these horrific allegations to even investigate them? It’s hardly a safe bet.

It was in Ankara in April 2009, in his first overseas trip as president and some weeks before his famous Cairo speech, that Barack Obama told the Turkish parliament that: “Turkey and the United States must stand together—and work together—to overcome the challenges of our time…. I know there are those who like to debate Turkey’s future…. They wonder whether you will be pulled in one direction or another.”

The administration’s mounting concern over Turkey’s backing of Iran suggests some recognition that—at least under Erdogan—Turkey has been “pulled” in some quite bad directions.

To the extent, though, that the administration keeps treating Turkey and Israel as morally equivalent parties in the flotilla dispute, it will indicate ongoing denial about Turkey’s geopolitical stance and the nature of the evil it has embraced.

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  • TheJewRule

    Choose $$ not Islam.

  • flaedo

    Ha ha ha. Those pipe and knife wielding peacefully protesting Turks were really…peaceful, yeah.

  • Chezwick_Mac

    Turkey has been touted for decades as the incontrovertible proof that Islam is capable of reforming itself….that there is a "secular, moderate Islam". Now, we see it was all a chimera.

    Ataturk "reformed" Turkey with the barrel of a gun; he perpetrated a vicious ethnic cleansing of Greeks who had lived in Anatolia from time immemorial. He was a rabid nationalist who in no way civilized his country, but who DID forcibly remove Islam from the public square. Kemal never "reformed" Islam, he repressed it.

    Funny thing happened along the road to secular paradise…the Turks embraced Parliamentary Democracy. Now that they are free to elect the government (and social system) of their choice, Islam has recaptured that public square and has become the heart, soul, and face of Turkey. MUSLIMS EMBRACE SHARIA is the lesson to be learned here, for all you clueless opponents of restricting Muslim immigration to the West.

    Funny, how US policymakers are always playing "catch-up" to countries undergoing significant changes. It's as if the desk-jockeys at State don't read the newspapers.

    Kemalism is dead in Turkey; Sharia is back. Isn't it time the USA (and Europe, for God's sake) started acting accordingly?

  • SHmuelHaLevi

    Ataturk showed one of the islamic poles and today the opposite pole gained the upper hand.
    Both have one thing in common. BRUTALITY.
    To keep islamic zeal under control or to spread its influence, the common language of islam is murderous brutality.
    Solutions? Just as they live and die by brutal force islam must be taken down by total force and returned to their lands of origin. Islam does not intend to co exist and they say so plainly.
    At that point, after being bent back, they must be also forced to accept other religions in their lands and if not, their delgations to other lands must be torn down.

    Islam does not offer viable alternatives so there will be no other solutions.

    • New Yorker

      How do you exactly return Islam to their land of origin? We are not talking about a small group of people. There are 1.5 billion muslims spread out all over the world. Many of them are non-arab. How do you stop them from being their backward self? A further spread of this hateful cult to not yet islamized lands perhaps can still be checked with a determined effort. But where is that determination? Who would stop it? The governments? Politicians? No chance. Then what?

  • ViewsOnNews

    There are more than 1.5 Billion Muslims in 56 Islamic countries, spread across all three continents. Right now they may be not united, but once united, along with increasing young population, I fully expect all of them starting to demand Shria in their countries. Even when not united, for Islam’s sake they will demand Sharia. Liberals, moderates, and not-so-moderates alike. All sects, i.e. Sunnis, Shiites and Wahbis alike. African, European, Central, Middle and Far East Asians alike. I don't see that too farfetched. Or, too far away either. I envision that happening may be within next decade or two.

    China would have grown to double of its current size to nearly at par with US (with its current of growth of 8-9%). A real heavy weight in terms of its economy and military powers. Alongside, there will be a concrete reality of almost two billion strong Muslim world, consisting of, mostly young, semi-educated, tech savvy population. Who thinks that there will be no demand Shria all across? Europe and US will have a real issue on their hands regarding foreign policies. How should they direct their foreign policy to deal with the Muslim Ummah or the Muslim states? [Continued…]

  • ViewsOnNews

    It's pretty clear to me that eventually Europe and US, will have to adjust and come out of the fear of Islam, or Shria, and need to learn and understand the Islamic philosophy governing the lives nearly 1.5 Billion Muslims. Moderate and not-so- moderates, across all continents. This also includes huge chunk of mostly educated Muslim population already living in EU, and US, estimated at about 12 Million in EU and 6 Million in US. Not to forget that Russia will also like to play important role or its cards, in terms of choosing to side with US/EU and their policies or the Muslim world.

    No doubt, US/EU is facing multi-dimensional foreign policy challenges. China, Islam and Russia, are the all coming big players in a multi dimensional world. Let’s not ignore South America. They may end up siding with powers not so friendly to US and EU. India, though a western ally, if pressed to choose one over the other, would never like to alienate its own 200 million semi-educated Muslim population, or its Middle Eastern Muslim trading partners. Leave alone the fact that Muslim Middle East is a huge labor market for Indian skilled and un-skilled labor. [Continued…]

  • ViewsOnNews

    I think, time to show genuine gesture of friendship and willingness to accept Islam as a political power is arriving upon us really soon. Trying it any other way will lead to chaos, hatred, and un-necessary demonization of each other’s beliefs, eventually leading to prolonged fights and never-ending wars among the human race on this planet. When we all know that the human race nevertheless is like a one big family on this planet earth. Are we not? [The End]

    • New Yorker

      Family members are not always friendly to each other and kill.

    • yaakovwatkins

      Okay, what views should we take on honor killing? What views should we take on the exclusion of Jews from Islamic countries? If an American woman is murdered by her Saudi husband for infidelity, do we let the murderer go? Do we allow Saudi companies to violate American civil rights laws by discriminating against women and Jews in the US? Or discriminating against apostate Moslems?

  • Rifleman

    The turks see the hostile mad mullah's get more respect and deference from the West than they do, that's part of the price of appeasement.

  • sergo

    Putin pushes ahead with fueling up Iran's reactor

    Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin decided it was safe to go ahead and load Iran's first nuclear reactor with fuel on Aug. 21 – effectively making it active – after the Kremlin's weekend announcement of this intent seemed not to trouble the US and Israel, debkafile's sources in Moscow and Tehran report

  • al-Kidya

    You know what they say; "the best defense is a good offense".
    I believe much of what is going on in the political arena with Turkey can be cleared by stoning them with truths.
    1. The Bulgarian genocide of 1872:
    2. The Armenian genocide of 1915:
    3. The Hellenic genocide and atrocities in Cyprus:

    It has been Turkey's habit for a thousand years to deny the truth of its brutality toward fellow human beings. They will deny the truth of the flotilla as well.

    It is too bad Israel has to rely on such a monster for their protection.

    • iskenderyi

      People who like this comment, shame on you. Do you know what is al-kidya? I hope they don't kill someone you know. By the way, the resources are cool. How did you find them? It has to be too hard for you since you create them..

  • osmanium

    I'm ashamed to be a member of the group of human beings who appear to be so narrow minded, uneducated and only interested in spreading religious and national hatred. I'm convinced none of them have ever come into contact with a Turk or even moslem Turk. Yet they do unhesitatingly say the worst things they can think of about them. Example, the reference to Bulgarian, Armenian and Cyprus and Cyprus genocides. Was Hitler a Moslem also? Are all Christians around the world faultless?

    The fact is that the sooner we learn to live with each other the better this world will become, as opposed to encouraging and promoting grounds for terrorism.

    • SHmuelHaLevi

      I have met both civilian and military Turkish people by the hundreds and find their variety fascinating. That does not mean that their genocides of others go un noticed.
      My problem is not with Turks as such but with virulent islam. And it appears that the problem is quite widespread.
      To reach any understading with islam it, islam, MUST accept the rights of other peoples that are not or want to be islamics. After all even if they number 1.3 billion there is a vast majority of 6 billion that are not with islam.
      In Israel there are hundreds of mosques even two at the Jewish most Holy place that they usurped.
      Yet in Saudi Arabia and many other islamic centers not even Jewish prayer items are allowed. That asymetry, weather islam likes or not, is going to cease soon enough.
      Islam is reaching the saturation point and resonance will cause ever widening cracks in their onslaught.
      Islam must accept diversity everywhere and cease and desist from attacking and murdering, or, 1.3 bilion or not, they will find very hard responses to their brutal acts.

  • Edip Yuksel

    Israeli soldiers, in international sea, killed nine peace activist. What these Zionist warmongers see? Justifying the aggression and massacres of Zionist regime will only accelerate the death of Zionism, which is the Jewish version of fascism. Thanks to Internet, he Zionist PR is losing big. You can only fool yourself. But, the time of reckoning is coming. Peace.

    • MixMChess

      "Israeli soldiers, in international sea, killed nine peace activist"

      Funny, I didn't know that knife wielding jihadis using stun grenades chanting "Allahu Ackbar" and "death to Israel" were considered peace activists. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

      "which is the Jewish version of fascism."

      I have to politely disagree, I always assumed Noam Chomsky and Norm Finkelstein were the Jewish version of fascism.

  • Lightning Jack

    First of all, there is no living in mutual coexistence with Islam unless one becomes Islamic. And secondly, ask any non-Muslim or Christian who has lived under the jack-boot of an Islamic Salafist state if they enjoyed exclusive individual freedom under Sharia, or the Islamic practice of "dhimmitude."

    Quisling leftist progressives such as Obama and his "go-along-to-get-along" appeasers are sadly mistaken if they believe everyone is fooled by their absurd Pollyanna world view of Islam. These progressive lemmings and their families should venture forth and live in a Middle Eastern Islamic theocratic state as non-Muslims where they can enjoy, first hand, the absurdity of their convictions.

  • Chris

    If Turkey cared so much about the nine 'peace activisits' that were killed while brutally
    attacking IDF soldiers with knives and iron bars why is it only now, a full three months after the event, that Turkey has decided to set up its own enquiry into the flotilla incident.

  • New Yorker

    Governments will not follow the people because the latter has to be organized and awakened by somebody, a strong leader capable to beat the awful trend like it was in the case of Winston S. Churchill. But Winston S. Churchill, in the world politics of the day, was a lucky phenomenon, a deviation from the prevailing norm. Once his term was over the awful slide has resumed and brought us to where we are today. Obama, Bloomberg, etc. are abject mediocrities not worthy of any respect and merely manifestations of this downward trend. Bush was clumsy and by and large succumbed to the flow as well. It's hard to tell what will awaken the Western Civilization and in which way and then will it be too late by then? We as a society are well deserved of the "leaders" we get. They are what we are.

    • SHmuelHaLevi

      The USA remains a formidable power even if some faults have created very critical conditions. And the same applies to israel. Radical Islam is Islam. There is not known "moderate" Islam or if there is that, no one has seen them taking up against the "extremists".
      I have full faith on that the people will drive back into the American Way the whole system there and into the real Jewish Heritage way here.
      The damage done by the un-American and unJewish cadres will be felt for years but the US and Israel will come out stronger than ever.
      Remarkably, the extremists will certainly pay the bulk of the price for their gruesome acts.
      The same applies to the Israelis. The "peace" industry saboteurs are bound for a serious judicial encounter.
      Many in the Black American community will be hurt the most by their own leaders.

      G.d Bless America
      and keep Israel safe as well.

  • New Yorker

    Also, the Roman Empire did not fall in one day. It took centuries. But the decline had probably been visible to the curious and concerned of that time. Could it have been changed? Who knows. Probably not provided it turned out to be the way it did.

  • New Yorker

    "The PEOPLE will have to turn around and stop the horrors and fast.
    That means making sure they cannot settle into our lands ever and if they are already there their lives must be as harsh as they make the lives of minorities in their pestilent places. "

    Yes – and where do we start?

  • tanstaafl

    Isn't Turkey still occupying half of Cyprus?

    • iskenderyi

      Turkey does not occupy the half of Cyprus. Turkey has the half of Cyprus. Since you have nothing to do except following what Turkey is doing, I suppose you are a European. Am I right?

  • WilliamJamesWard

    Christians and Jews are being given their walking papers
    in Turkey, why is that?The Turkish military is cashiering all
    secular Officers and ugly rumors have it that they are also
    being tried for crimes against Islam. The Mullahs are moving
    throughout Islam to purify their populations and preparing
    for war with Iran leading the way with Nuclear weapons. War
    would be a quick way to spread Islam and sharia or do nothing
    and colonize and spread to a saturation point and take over by
    decree with dominant numbers. In NYC the Mosque is granted
    the right to build while in NYC at ground zero a Christian Orthodox
    Church is denied the right to rebuild, what to close to the new
    feel good about Islam Obamination, when the Muslim fix is in it's in.
    So much for a center of reconciliation and outreach, yeah reach out
    and eliminate someone…………………………….William

  • FlaGuy954

    It's time Turkey was held accountable for the Armenian Genocide!

    • iskenderyi

      Accountable? funny.

  • TheTruth

    My Armenian grandparents escaped from eastern Turkey because of the atrocities being committed by the Turks against the Armenians. But, the Turkish government claims it wasn't a genocide. Why did my grandparents say "good riddance" to Turkey if there were no persecutions? Before the genocide, there were at least 1,500,000 Armenians living in Turkey. After the genocide those 1,500,000 Armenians were slaughtered. How does the Turkish government explain what happened to those missing people, including some of my relatives? The main point here is that Turkey shuns the truth at every possible opportunity because they live in the dark – the darkness of sin.

    • iskenderyi

      Where is the proof? You say that your granparents escaped because of the genocide, can your grandparents show a proof? By the way, your grandparents lived in Turkey, why are they talking like that, is this respectful? Maybe this is why they killed a couple of them. If someone can proove it, I am ready to accept the genocide, but, since there was no genocide, there is only thing to believe and this Turkey. In addition to this, leave the country if your grandparents were killed like animals. Do you know how many Armenians live in Turkey now?

  • William Smart

    Turkey is a NATO ally of ours, attacked by a non-NATO country. That's why this affair has caused such immense ructions – is NATO membership worth anything to anyone?

    Last week's sensation – questioned by Turkel, Netanyahu told the inquiry that the IDF decides everything: "Were alternative methods for enforcing the blockade considered at the decision-making level? Or was the issue of alternatives also left up to the army?" Netanyahu stated: "No, I said the IDF examined the various options for carrying out the mission."

  • Donna

    You are 100% on the mark, Robert. Israel is, and will continue to be the negative "threat" in the middle-east. It doesn't make a difference what the "Zionist" entity conceedes to, most of the world will call Israel "the problem to peace in the region."