Israel’s Warning


Pages: 1 2

While these days the focus is understandably on Al Qaeda, alarming news has also surfaced about Hezbollah, the Shiite terror group that is clustered near Israel’s border and has taken control of Lebanon.

The French daily Le Figaro reports that Hezbollah’s arsenal now numbers 40,000 missiles, and that the organization fields over 10,000 fighters. Le Figaro also gives details on three Hezbollah units tasked with maintaining and transporting the missiles, and on Syria’s close involvement in the whole enterprise.

The article says that last January one of the three, Unit 108—in a move picked up by U.S. intelligence—received a delivery of 26 Syrian M-6002 missiles somewhere between Damascus and the Syrian-Lebanese border. While Unit 108’s main barracks are near that border, it also has a base near Damascus Airport for handling weapons shipments from Iran.

Le Figaro quotes the French Defense Ministry as saying Israel might strike Unit 108’s sites in Syria.

The paper also says the Syrian army has its own Scud missile base near Damascus. And while Syria denies having supplied Hezbollah with Scuds, satellite images seem to show Hezbollah operatives being trained in their use at the base.

Ron Ben-Yishai, veteran military analyst for Israel’s largest daily Yediot Aharonot, ascribes much significance to the report and writes that “whoever provided [Le Figaro] with sensitive intelligence information” had reasons for doing so.

One of those reasons, Ben-Yishai says, is:

to slam the facts in the face of international public opinion, so that the UN, the West, Arab states and the global media won’t pretend to be surprised if and when Israel undertakes powerful, destructive strikes. Such actions would target the immense rocket and missile arsenal in Lebanon, as well as the states that contributed to establishing it, that is, Lebanon and Syria.

Ben-Yishai goes on to note that in recent months Israel has been conveying that point to the international community, including declassified maps of how Hezbollah stores weapons near schools, hospitals, and homes in southern Lebanese villages. Hezbollah thereby wants to make it hard for Israel to attack the targets, while also setting Israel up for “war crimes” accusations if it does.

Pages: 1 2

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Actually, GWB and Condi “appeaser” Rice deserves a great deal of that blame as well, as it was a perfect opportunity to hand Iraq and Syria a strategic defeat. You just don’t pass up an opportunity like that. Hence, the USA behind to scenes should have been urging and encouraging Israel’s leftwing Prime Minister Olmert to eliminate Hezbollah once and for all no matter what. Instead, Condi “appeaser” Rice was working with the French to convince Israel to sign UNSCR 1701, which anyone with half a brain new beforehand was a joke, except apparently for GWB and Condi “appeaser” Rice.

    Indeed, besides the occupations and fantasy based nation-building missions in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the actions of the GWB administration during the 2006 second Lebanon War, is the next biggest strategic blunder of the GWB administration.

  • Cuinn

    I was opposed to Bush's "Roadmap to Destruction" just as I am now opposed to Obama's Israeli sell out behavior. The 1967 borders are indefensible and drawing back to those borders would be a death knell for Israel. There is no peace to be had with neighbors that refuse to acknowledge you have a right to even exist to begin with.

    • seadog1946

      Please define a defensible border in this day and age of MRBMs, IRBMs, ICBMs and cruise missles. If you are talking about defensible borders against massed armored columns invading your borders… you've lost the war because you've neglected aerial/space-based intelligence gathering.

      • YeshuaisAdonai

        Either way giving up that land is not an option. The Golan Heights offers the best position for early warning systems when minutes are critical in an air assault and no war is finished until the land is occupied. Take Golan Heights away their goes a key to maintaining air superiority. '67 borders would then make it easy to divide Israel's forces in half putting pressure on them to fight a war on two fronts. Which is exactly what would happen. Israel shouldn't give up another square inch.

    • Ira Kasper

      As far as the war in Iraq: If we don't try to create a semi-western semi-democracy in an Arab Muslim nation and give Muslim parents around the world a chance to see that their children can have something better to live for we will …have 10 million (under 1%) people willing to strap bombs on to destroy western culture with the support of 300 million(20%) who hate. That would leave this country in a position to either surrender to an Islamic Theocracy or use nuclear weapons to kill hundreds of millions. Open your eyes and try to figure out a better way or shut up and let other think for you.

    • Eric

      What a great read, I'm really glad that I stumbled upon this.
      Indianapolis chiropractor

  • http://www.learnpianoinyourhome.com Rachel Sunder
  • ze-ev ben jehudah

    It won't take so much longer.First of all antisemitism world wide is taking
    nasty destructive forms.It is not only the Moslim but also the Western society's
    that turn their back on the Jewish state and Jews in general.
    I'm old inough to remember the onset to world war two and now it happens again.
    I believe that within a couple of years world war nr 3 will be a fact.

  • Andres de Alamaya

    Time for Israel to drop the big one on Tehran as thanks for their exports to Lebanon, Syria and their puppets in Gaza. If you prepare to attack me with a knife and I have a 45 I'd be insane not to use it. Common sense in survival calls for "Do unto others before they do unto you."

  • Rob

    I just love the commens about anti-semitism, Two weeks ago former Chief Rabbi, Rabbi Yosef stated that non-Jews are like donkeys and were created to serve the Jews and they can be killed with impunity. His party is part of the coalition government.. Since no one in the government complained about these comments one can assume that they agree with his Hitleresque view of a Jewish "master race". Lets see is this "anti-
    everyone but us. Israel you have become so sick and with comments like this why shouldn't anti-semitism increase?

    • YeshuaisAdonai

      ". Israel you have become so sick and with comments like this why shouldn't anti-semitism increase? "

      Link please. And no this does not mean anti-semitism should increase. This man's comments, if he actually made them, are not indicative of the Israeli government who have bent over backwards to appease the "Palestinians". Even going so far as to give them the Gush Katif greenhouses as a way to create revenue for themselves. Those greenhouses produced 70% of Israel's produce and over 100 million dollars a year. Until the" Palestinians" destroyed them. Furthermore such comments would not be indicative of all Jews. This comment, again if it was made and in the context you presented it, would be an exception to the rule in how the Jews interact with the rest of the world. But with people like you advocating the increase of anti-semitism it is no wonder Israel and Jews in general are having an uphill battle demonstrating to the world why peace will not exist with those who don't truly want it. I find your comment just as disgusting as an other bigot who calls for the wholesale classification of people based on a twisted characiture.

      • seadog1946

        "Link please"… carry/haul your own water… just google "ovaida donkey" and you'll get quite a number of hits on the pronouncements of this great Talmudic scholar and Grand Rabbi.

      • Rob

        Someone already posted the link. If the Ayatollah said this about Muslims Jews would be up in arms. The governments silence is deafening. Don't kid yourself that the religious fanatics in the government and the settlers don't believe this and this is exactly how the Israeli government reacts to the world with extreme arrogance. Comments like Rabbi Yosef's of a Jewish master race will lead to more anti- semitism as long as the worlds Jews support the present Israeli government. They don't want peace ,they want more and more Palestinian land. The settlers are now torching mosques and churches in their fanaticsm.

    • aspacia

      There are few antiChristian Jews in the world. Most condemn the Rabbi's words and religiouscism.

    • Spirit_Of_1683

      OI, Rob, are you the grandson of Hitler that nobody seems to know anything about?

      • Rob

        Spirit: I am against anyone who claims that they are a member of a "master race". Isn' it more likely that Chief Rabbi Yosef is Hitler's son. I love how no one wants to comment on what the Rabbi said but attack me, the messinger. Like with the Israeli government and the posters here the silence is deafening about the good Rabbi's comments. I just wonder how many Jews concur with the Rabbi.

        • Spirit_Of_1683

          Who cares what the rabbi said. israel has been under constant attack for 60 years, and survives this day, much to your chagrin. Of course, it sickens you that Jews will no longer be led into the gas chambers. And why did you have that Jewish-invented polio vaccine?

    • MixMChess

      "Since no one in the government complained about these comments one can assume that they agree with his Hitleresque view of a Jewish 'master race'."

      It is clear that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's are disgusting and should rightfully be condemned, however it is equally disgusting and idiotic to think this is the position of the Israeli government or Israelis in general. The government did officially condemn and distance itself from these comments:

      “These words do not reflect the approach of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, nor the position of the government of Israel”

      Not only that but Israeli and worldwide Jewish organizations (AJC, ADL) have equally condemned the comments.

      "Israel you have become so sick and with comments like this why shouldn't anti-semitism increase?"

      I am sure you would love to see antisemitism increase.

      • Rob

        You are a liar. The goverment didn't condemn his comments about the Jewish "master race". Netanayu condemned his comments when he called for the death of Abbas. The government was totally quiet about his comments on how non-Jews were created to serve the Jews. Avigdor Lieberman, Foreign Minister, has made comments that shows he concurs with the Rabbi. Israelis and Jews want everyone to go after Holocaust deniers but are silent when their Rabbi's talk about genocide against non-Jews or their "master race". Israel's religious leaders have even out done the crazy comments coming from Iran's religious leaders.

        • MixMChess

          No you are a liar. The government has time and again condemned his comments about so-called "Jewish Supremacism." Press Secretary Yigal Palmor condemned Rabbi Yosef's comments as well as other far-right settlers who were clamoring for violence against Palestinians.

          "Israelis and Jews want everyone to go after Holocaust deniers but are silent when their Rabbi's talk about genocide against non-Jews or their "master race"

          Another lie, Israel, and other Jewish organizations such as the JTA, ADL and AJC have all condemned Rabbi Yosef's comments. Yosef is a fringe lunatic. Hamas which is the official government of Gaza calls for the worldwide extermination of Jews in its CHARTER. Please go back and crawl under that rock from which you came.

          • Rob

            Another Rabbi wrote a book recently that is a Israeli bestseller,"Torat Ha'Melech." It is a 230 page justification for killing non-Jews and even their babies pre-emptivly. Some religion of peace and love. Note that this is a justification for killing non-Jews not just Muslims so most of the world has to worry, especially since Israel has over 100 nucleur warheads.

    • al g

      Rob, you gotta stop reading those anti-semetic blogs. They are rotting your brain. Why don't you get a clean start and check the sites that show the great and unprecidented things Israel is doing for the good of the whole world. It might give you a healthier perspective about the only democratic nation in the middle east.

      • Rob

        I am not reading anti-semitic blogs I am only reading Israeli newspapers and they show that Israel's Rabbi's are going off they deep end with their violent and racist rants. Doesn't Israel have any hate crime legislation that they are willing to enforce? In the future they will complete the delegitimization of Israel if this continues. Their hatred is not just towards Muslims but towards non- Jews which is most of the world. Not a good way to win friends and influence people.

  • michaelle

    Israel should have never appeased the jerks to begin with.

  • Muchiboy

    "There is no peace to be had with neighbors that refuse to acknowledge you have a right to even exist to begin with."

    Understandable when that right to exist was "earned" from occupation and ethnic cleansing.

    "the Western society's that turn their back on the Jewish state and Jews in general."

    If that were so Israel would a),not have been recreated in the first place and b)would not have survived to date.

    "I'm old inough to remember the onset to world war two and now it happens again."

    Then maybe when we start all over again we will realize the mistakes made and re-establish Israel on the banks of the Rhine where it belongs,if it belongs in the modern world at all.

    "If you prepare to attack me with a knife and I have a 45 I'd be insane not to use it.."

    Exactly,that's why we must supply Hamas,Hezbollah and the enemies of Israel with night vision equipment and mobile hand held missiles to incapacitate Israeli aircraft and armored vehicles.It is apparent that the present situation only benefits Israel.Perhaps if Israel experienced the numbers of deaths and injuries she inflicts on her foes she might genuinely seek a just peace with and for the Palestinians.Already there are hundreds of nuclear weapons in the middle east (in the hands of Israel) and while a calculated risk the introduction of a second nuclear capable non Jewish nation as a counter balance may urge the Zionists to seek a just peace as an imperative.That scenario is indeed frightening but the present reality of Palestinian suffering is morally untenable and presents other risks to regional and world peace and stability. Muchiboy

    • stephencuz

      Muchie, you have all the answers. What is puzzling is that you place all the misery on the shoulders of Israel. In any reasonable mind this just cannot be. So, since ANY reasonable mind would see it otherwise we must conclude that you are not in a reasonable state of mind. Therefore, apart from offering you best wishes for a full recovery, we should not otherwise engage you with reason and let the conversation stop there.

    • ziontruth

      "and re-establish Israel on the banks of the Rhine where it belongs"

      The banks of the Rhine are not the Jews' home. Only Palestine, the Land of Israel, is the Jews' home.

      This basic contempt on the part of the anti-Zionists for Jewish history is going to cost them. You see, I didn't used to be for the Jewish presence in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. Long, long ago, I was quite for conceding those territories for the sake of peace.

      But that was long, long ago. Since then, I have come to know the true nature of this conflict, the nature of anti-Zionism; a worldview that holds that the Jews don't deserve anything in Palestine. Not even Tel-Aviv, let alone Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

      And when I realized that, I became a maximalist: As the enemies of Israel demand her all, Israel should concede nothing at all. Israel should insist on everything: the pre-1967 territories, Judea, Samaria, Gaza, even Transjordan, and all under exclusive indigenous Palestinian (=Jewish) sovereignty, with the Arab settler-colonist invaders booted out.

      But wait, there's more: I'm hardly the only Israeli Jew to have undergone this realization and the consequent change of view. And one day, my type is going to govern the Jewish State. Then, with HaShem's help, the curtain will be brought down on anti-Zionism.

      • Rob

        My, it sure sounds like you believe in the Jewish master race like the Chief Rabbi. What an arrogant SOB " my type is going to govern the Jewish State and then the curtain will be brought down on anti- Zionism". Hell if the present government continues it's ways anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are going to be worldwide. So do you plan to nuke the world. Another sick religious fanatic. With Ha Shem's help Israel and the rest of the world won't exist.

        • ziontruth

          "My, it sure sounds like you believe in the Jewish master race like the Chief Rabbi."

          I almost feel pity having to burst your bubble, seeing how you sit so comfortably in it. But only almost.

          The truth of the matter is, Judaism and its idea of the Chosen Nation is not and never has been about lording it over those who aren't chosen. It's a spiritual role only. The Jewish hope for the Messianic Era lies in that it will bring freedom from political subjugation (to ALL nations), not in the vision of world supremacy.

          If you have this need to castigate a group that not only believes themselves chosen, but also that this entitles them to lordship over all the others, then the Muslims are the ones you're looking for. That's as friendly advice as I'm ever going to offer you.

          You will, of course, stay your course with claims of Jewish supremacism, "Chief Rabbi said" this and that ad nauseam (which I don't believe, just as I don't believe anything coming out of the Marxist, anti-Zionist, Jew-hating MSM in all the developed world). But I've done my bit in answering your principal point that needs answering, and no further response is necessary.

          • Rob

            I like how you say you don't believe the former Chief Rabbi said this even when you can link to the sites which are mostly Israeli. Nice way to close your eyes and mind to what's happening in Israel. Thats as friendly advice as I'm ever going to offer you. Religious fanatcism of all types say I'm better than you and I have the true path.

          • Spirit_Of_1683

            Oh dear, what a pity you had your Jewish-invented polio jabs.

          • Abdullah

            Thanks to Amr Ibn Ali of Mosul, a Muslim, your "Jewish-invented" polio jabs were able to be delivered by the Muslim invented Hypodermic.

            It's about "we" and "team"…Human Accomplishment, it's about "us" not "me."

            You sound like one of those idiots who thinks science arises in and of its own in certain people…Newton had all those in mind who came before…giants.

          • Spirit_Of_1683

            The only things Muslims invent are new ways to murder. They've accomplished nothing else, so off you go back to the typical Muslim slumhole called Pakistan.

      • aspacia

        I am a Goy, and fully agree with you. I would drive every stinking Muslim from Gaza, The West Bank and Israel proper unless they sign a loyalty oath on the Qu'ran.

        • Spirit_Of_1683

          There's one problem with your idea. The Koran permits lying and treachery.

    • PAtrick Donovan

      That was so unbalanced and untrue it does not deserve a dignified response. I will give you this response, though ( which I think is on your level ):
      You are a doody head, doody head, doody head!! Blah, blah blah blah blah!!

      • aspacia

        Couldn't you come up with a better name like rat filth.

    • Mike in VA

      It is apparent that the present situation only benefits Israel?

      An contraire, Muchiboy. It's been apparent for decades that this conflict only benefits the survival of every anti-democratic state and Islamist terrorist group in the Middle East. If it's not their entire raison d'etre it's the useful distraction that keeps their populace's minds off their own lack of freedom and economic opportunity.

    • aspacia

      What about Muslim targeting Jews in many lands long before 1948? There are numerous valid account of Muslim massacring both Christians and Jews and pagans for many hundred years using their Qur'an as justification.

      Remember, as a nonMuslim you are also a target according to Islam.

      • MixMChess

        That is absolutely correct aspacia! Just to name a few… in the 1929, during the Hebron massacre the Arabs butchered 67 Jews and maimed countless others. From 1936-1939 during the Arab Revolt over three hundred Jews were brutally murdered.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Understandable when that right to exist was "earned" from occupation and ethnic cleansing.

      Hey Muchiboy, I see you are still a very obsessed anti-Semitic bigot. Nevertheless, it’s not an occupation; it is disputed territories instead. Moreover, no one owns better title to those disputed territories than Israel, as Israel legally captured the territory from Jordan in 1967, which had itself illegally occupied the territory for some 19 years. Not to mention that Jordan also relinquished any and all claims it may have held to the territory when it concluded its peace treaty with Israel in 1994. Further, Egypt also relinquished any and all claims it may have held to Gaza in 1979. Hence, since no else has better title to those territories other than Israel, then it can’t be an occupation. Unless you are dumb enough to believe that there was at one time some country called Palestine who Israel is occupying.

      In addition, you keep falsely accusing the Israeli Jews of ethnic cleansing even though you can’t back it up. In any event, the reality is the only people guilty of ethnic cleansing are the Islamic Arabs who in response to losing their genocidal jihad of conquest to Israel in 1949, ethnically cleansed from their countries approximately 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jews with nothing but the shirts on their backs, while confiscating their property and murdering thousands of them in pogroms in the process.

      In other words, everything you have falsely accused the Israeli Jews of their Muhammadan enemies are guilty of. Indeed, you are so mentally incompetent that you have literally inverted reality. Like I told you the last time, moral and cultural relativism has literally eaten away your brain and left you so delusional that you don’t know whether you are coming or going.

      Exactly,that's why we must supply Hamas,Hezbollah and the enemies of Israel with night vision equipment and mobile hand held missiles to incapacitate Israeli aircraft and armored vehicles

      Well, well Muchiboy, you just couldn’t hold back, indeed, you are not only an obsessive anti-Semitic Jew hating bigot, but you are also a terrorist sympathizer too. Apparently, you are even more mentally deficient than I ever imagined.

      Too bad you are too morally confused to realize that Israel’s enemies are technically our enemies also, as the jihad that Israel faces is a lesser jihad of the greater global jihad that we all face. That is unless you are a Muhammadan.

      • Spirit_Of_1683

        Muchiboy still thinks the wrong side lost in 1945.

    • MixMChess

      "Understandable when that right to exist was "earned" from occupation and ethnic cleansing."

      No the right to exist was earned through historical and legal ties to the land, legal purchases of land and literally building the country up from scratch. The Palestinians on the other hand through campaigns of terror and xenophobia have earned nothing.

      "Then maybe when we start all over again we will realize the mistakes made and re-establish Israel on the banks of the Rhine where it belongs,if it belongs in the modern world at all."

      Despite the best efforts of dishonest antisemites such as yourself, the land of Israel where it exists now has and always will be the home of the Jews.

      "Exactly,that's why we must supply Hamas,Hezbollah and the enemies of Israel with night vision equipment and mobile hand held missiles to incapacitate Israeli aircraft and armored vehicles."

      Hamas and Hezbollah have stated goals of global jihad and the extermination of worldwide Jewry. They are the only natural heirs to the Nazis. I guess it should be of no surprise to me that you want to arm them to inflict genocide on more Jews.

      "Perhaps if Israel experienced the numbers of deaths and injuries she inflicts on her foes she might genuinely seek a just peace with and for the Palestinians."

      More lies, Israel has offered peace to the Palestinians in 1993, 2000, 2005, 2006 and even now. The Arabs and people like you have proven that Palestinians don't want peace, just more dead Jews.

    • ajnn

      This commentator (Muchiboy) shows up quite often with his jew-hatred.

      Fantasies, hypocrisy, inventions are his stock in trade. We have heard him quite often and his shrillness is offensive.

      Enough is enough from this deceitful, distorting jew-hater.

    • ajnn

      Her wants to risk blowing up the whole world in a nuclear holocast with a nuclear Iran for an end to the arab-israeli war?

      A little extreme. "The operation was a success, but the ptient died"… Wacko.

  • ze-ev ben jehudah

    Millions of Muslims can shout " kill all the Jews "But if one Jew shouts "they,
    the non Jews,are not to be trusted "then all the Jews in the world get it on their plate.
    How mesjugge can you get.

    • Rob

      Is Rabbi Yosef right that non-Jews were created to serve the Jews and can be killed with inpunity like the donkeys they are? Israeli settlers are regularly saying death to all Arabs as they run around burning mosques and churches. The government is about to give stipends to Yeshiva students who don't work but just study the Torah and believe in aJewish "master race". Religious fanatism in Israel can now match anything in the Moslem world. Personally I despise all religious fanatics and those that support them

      • bostonian

        Roby can you name one mosque or church destroied in Israel? Just one?It is sad that uninformed have opinion,which you entitled to but not a facts which you are not

        • Rob

          I refuse to do your hunting for you. Just google "church arson Israel" and "mosgue arson Israel" and you get numerous hits. Some mosques are in the last couple of months like in Beit Fajar and Kfar Yusef. A biggy was Al Aqsa in 1969. As for churches there are also many like a Baptist Church in Jerusalem in 2007. The same church was torched 1983. Two days ago it appears another Jerusalem church was firebombed with people. These arsons are clearly being done the Ultra- Orthodox and settlers and Israel never arrests anyone. One of the recent mosques had "price tag" graffitti on the wall a threat to the government to end the settlement freeze.

          • MixMChess
          • Rob

            Camera is just a propaganda front of the Israeli goverment. Of course they won't mention the monuments in Israel for the murderer of Rabin, or for Baruch Goldstein who massacred 29 Palestinians while they were praying in a mosque. Some great heroes they have in Israel.

          • MixMChess

            You are a LIAR. Some right-wing extremists set up a monument near the gravesite of Baruch Goldstein and the Israeli government BULLDOZED it in 1999. In addition Israel passed a law that specifically prohibited monuments to terrorists.

            Palestinians on the hand make it official policy to worship terrorists.
            In 2010, the Palestinian Authority named a public square in Ramallah (March 2010) after the terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who led a terror attack that killed 37 civilians. A Palestinian street is named after the terrorist Abu Jihad, who planned a bus hijacking that killed 37 civilians. A Palestinian school was named after famous terrorist and Hamas founder Ahmad Yassin. The Palestinians have a youth football tournament named after suicide terrorist Abd Al-Basset Odeh who killed 31 civilians. There is a Palestinian youth center named after terrorist Abu Iyad, responsible for killing the 11 Olympic athletes in Munich. There is a week at Al-Quds University honoring suicide bomb builder Yahya Ayyash. Need I really go on?

    • Rob

      The good former Chief Rabbi did not say non- Jews are not to be trusted he said they were created to serve the Jews and can be killed with impunity. Nice holy comments that sounds like he is scholar of the Protocals of Zion. Israel's settlers reguarly go into Palestinian areas shouting kill the Arabs. Even the IDF wrote it on walls in Gaza during the massacre.

    • ziontruth

      Didn't you get the memo? A moderate among the Muslims is one who just falls short of calling for genocide of the Jews (but otherwise voicing the same sentiments as Helen Thomas). An extremist among the Jews is one who dares to suggest that even the pre-1967 territories belong to the Jews by right.

      Two standards are better than one, aren't they?

  • Michael

    EXCATLY! I believe israel should do whatever it takes to defend her people. Whether people agree or disagree that it should be a state or country or whatever, the fact is that, there are orginizations in the immediate area around, and in the world, that would like to bring about the destruction of a nation. If provoked, israel should use whatever it has in its arseanal to defend itself. If that means nuking surrounding countries to regain safety of its people and border, so be it. People now a days scream about, "civilian casulties". If you dont want your family blown away, then move them away from the missle depot sites. The neighbors of these sites cant be so stupid as to not know that there is 50 to 100 missiles, ready to fire, next door. The reason they dont move, means only one thing, they support the enemy! Then in that case, they are the enemy. The world today has forgotten who or what wins wars, it the side who kills the most people and brings down its enemy. If the U.S.A and its allies were worried about civilian deaths during WWII, we would all be speaking German or Japanese!

  • Rob

    It seems that Israel"s religious fanatics and settlers want nothing less than the radical muslims. At least their ayatollahs have not claimed that non- Muslims were created to serve the Muslims. The chosen people now think they are the master race. Just ask the ultra orthodox and the settlers. The religious divisions in Israel will bring Jews killing Jews in the future. Unless the world's Jews can temper Israel and stop supporting it. anti- semitism will sweep the world.

    • Mike in VA

      Who are you trying to kid? Anti-Semitism was sweeping the world long before Israel existed and it will continue to sweep the world as long as Jew-hating bigots keep acting on their xenophobia.

    • rachman

      I know some Jews, including religious ones on the West Bank, and they have no "master race" tendencies. Since I'm an athiest, I do see dangers in any religion, some much more than others. If you are worried about a master race, then worry about the popularity of Mein Kampf in the Moslem world.

  • waterwillows

    What one Jew says to his congregation is not to be taken as representing the Entire Jewish world. What one Pastor says to his congregation is not to be taken for representing the Entire Christian world.
    My question is why would an intelligent, clear thinking person have to be told that. I can understand having to explain to a child, but why an adult?

    • Rob

      Come on now. This is like the Pope saying all non- Catholics were created to serve the Catholics. Rabbi Yosef is not just a former Chief Rabbi of Israel, he is the leader of the Sephardic Jews and his party is part of the government. Such codescending comments at the end tell much more about you than me.

  • Rob

    Has any one noticed how rabid the pro Israel comments are. Is this country really worth supporting with the religious fanatics coming out of the woodwork. Such arrogance. The threats of nuking people and countries makes me hope that Iran gets the bomb and it becomes a case of mutually assured destruction.

    • stephencuz

      Tell me what was "fanatical" in what I said. I suggest that reason should guide the discussion. Reason tells us that it just cannot be that all the misery is on the shoulders of Isarel. If you protest this you are unreasonable and our discussion ends. Real simple to me…a reasonable man. Reason tells us that you use your entire body to protect your entire body. Israel has the right to protect itself from its neighbors which openly call for its demise…using everything it has.

    • Mike in VA

      I've certainly noticed how rabid your comments are, Rob.

      • Rob

        I suppose you agree with the "rabid" comments of Rabbi Yosef . No comment about that. What would you say if an Ayatollah said it about Muslims?

        • Mike in VA

          You suppose wrong, and I don't see what this has to do with the subject of this article, which concerns the rearming of Hizb'Allah, which is in direct contravention of UNSCR 1701. What do you have to say about that?

          What would I say if an Ayatollah thought other Muslims were like donkeys and were created to serve the Shi'a and they can be killed with impunity? I'd say what's new? It's not like the Shi'a haven't been fighting the Sunnis for centuries. And if an Ayatollah said it about non-Muslims, I'd say his comments are entirely consistent with Islam's scriptural texts (see Qur'an IX:29).

    • aspacia

      After 6,000 years of persecution Jew have the right to a homeland and self preservation from the likes of people like you.

      • Rob

        Why do you think you have had 6,000 years. Is it everyone elses fault or is it that you think that non-Jews are sub-human and were created to serve the Jews. Comments by Israel's Rabbi's are getting more and more extreme and they are showing that their religion is hardly one of peace and love.

        • aspacia

          First, I am not Jewish. I am a Deist, Feminist, Goy, Zionist. My view regarding Jews and Israel stems from a sense of Justice, not religion. They purchased the land, and prior to the creation of Israel, Jews have been persecuted by both Christians and Muslims just because of their faith. They were horribly discriminated against in the USA up until the 60's.

          Okay, the rabbi, (it is not capitalized unless followed by a name) is extreme, but he is not any more extreme than Islamic clerics. My no condemnation of Islam and its extreme? AFRAID? I would say yes, and add you are a coward.

          • Rob

            The Rabbi is equally as extreme as Islamic clerics. You should enlighten yourself about other Rabbi's comments that are equally extreme about non-Jews. Read about the Israeli best seller Torat H'aMelech(King's Torah) that is a 230 page rant ( supported by religious documents) that legitimizes killing non-Jews and even their babies pre-emptivly. My warning is that unless Israel can rein in their religious fanatics they are not going to have any support in the world.

          • MixMChess

            The Jewish religious extremists are a very small minority in the Israeli population. Israel already reins in much of their fanaticism. Just look at the Jerusalem Post, Haaretz,, Forward etc. that all condemn these extremists. You can try to smear Jews all you want by a few radical extremists but the facts speak for themselves. There is a great public outcry within Israel whenever one of these idiots comes to light. By contract, in the Arab/Islamic world, the extremists are the "mainstream" and are lauded and supported by the public.

    • Spirit_Of_1683

      Obviously you think the stoning fanatics of Iran are worth supporting, as was the headchopping Zarqawi in your putrid, retarded mind.

      • Rob

        All you can do is call names. To reiterate I hate all religious fanatics that feel their religion is the best and feel entitled by it. I don't like Iranian fanatics nor Al Quida fanatics nor do I like Israel's fanatics that think they are a master race and non-Jews were created to serve them. Israel's Rabbi's call for the anihilation of all Arabs, the hanging of terrorists children, and the recent book by a Rabbi legitimizing the killing of non- Jews and even their babies pre-emptivly. These Rabbi "fatwas" are no less abhorent then any coming out of of the Moslem world.

        • Spirit_Of_1683

          As you hate Western Christians and Jews so much and think they're no different from Muslims when they're as different as chalk and cheese, off you go to Pakistan or Iran. You and your fellow spongers are not wanted here by the infidels you regard as filthy demons.

        • aspacia

          The Muslim's also do this and you do not attack them; WHY

          • Spirit_Of_1683

            Because he's on their side.

    • MixMChess

      "Has any one noticed how rabid the pro Israel comments are. Is this country really worth supporting with the religious fanatics coming out of the woodwork. Such arrogance."

      My Zionism is purely secular. Religious fanaticism doesn't create Zionist tendencies. Those who care about true liberalism (human and civil rights) and diverse democracies naturally support Israel. Why do you think political opposites (and both atheists) Bill Maher and S.E. Cupp both support Israel?

      "The threats of nuking people and countries makes me hope that Iran gets the bomb and it becomes a case of mutually assured destruction."

      • Rob

        Your Zionism may be secular but I feel that Zionism is inherently racist. Nonethe less you continue to support Israel that has been taken over by crazed religious fanatics. You have the nerve to call Israel a democracy. It is hardly that and the religious right is doing every thing they can disenfranchise the Palestinian population. The government turns a blind eye to settlers burning mosques and churches and murdering Palestinians. What will Israel have to do for you to stop supporting it?Will you support it if they decide to drive all Palestinians out of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank?

        • MixMChess

          Israel hasn't been taken over by crazed religious fanatics. They are a small fraction of a very diverse society. They hold 11 out of 120 seats in the Knesset. Interestingly enough, the three Arab parties also hold 11 seats in the Knesset.

          "The government turns a blind eye to settlers burning mosques and churches and murdering Palestinians."

          Liar, press secretary Yigal Palmor condemned settler as recently as October. Between 2000-2010, over 200 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, while less than 50 Palestinians were killed by Israeli civilians in those same areas. Most of the Palestinians were killed while attempting to infiltrate Israeli settlements or murder Israelis

          "Will you support it if they decide to drive all Palestinians out of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank?"

          Israel must be doing a pretty bad job at driving the Palestinians out considering they completely withdrew from Gaza and as recently as 2005, the government was willing to dismantle W. Bank settlements.

        • aspacia

          I sure will. The racist Arab/Palestinians make it a capital offense to sell land to any Jews.

      • aspacia

        The mullahs are wanting an Armageddon.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      I can’t help noticing how obsessive and rabid your anti-Semitic Jew hating garbage is you fanatic. Not to mention that only a mentally bankrupt moonbat like yourself could be naïve enough to believe that Mutual Assured Destruction would work with people inculcated cradle to grave to love death more than they love life. Only fools like you are naïve enough to assume that Muhammadans see the world the same way you do, but the reality is you don’t have the first clue, which also explains your fanatical Jew hatred.

      • Rob

        Ahh I love it since the use of the term anti-semitism became overused and trite it has been replaced by Jew-hatred. Wouldn't Rabbi Yosef"s comments be classified as "non-Jew hatred"? I don't hate anyone, not Jews nor Arabs. What I do hate is religious fanaticism of all types. Since the fanatics have control of the Israeli government it has become abhorrent to the world. Israel's Rabbi's have called for genocide against Palestinians, hanging terrorist's children, killing Abbas, and then Yosef's comments. These are Israel's "fatwas" and it's gets sicker by the day. Who is going to rein them in?

  • Muchiboy

    " Muchie, you have all the answers.What is puzzling is that you place all the misery on the shoulders of Israel.."

    It's just that you i.e.Israel,have all the power and abuse it i.e.the Palestinians.Given that Israel has so much power relative to the Palestinians,you have a moral duty and an obligation based on what they have lost to you and yours to bring about a just and fair resolution.Your refusal to acknowledge the wrongs done to the Palestinian people is proof that Jews do not deserve their own country.Given that you have your own country,thanks to the misguided sentiments of the Western powers,Israel certainly does not belong within the circle of civilized western liberal democracies,but rather with the more barbaric,anachronistic likes of Iran,Libya and N.Korea.Israel has simply failed to live up to their expectations.But what could you expect from a people who last ruled a barbaric biblical mid eastern nation some two thousand years ago.The recent Inclusion of Israel in the OECD was ill advised given its human rights violations.

    "In any reasonable mind this just cannot be"
    You might have a case if it were just me,stephencuz,but there are many reasonable minds,Jewish included, that share similar sentiments.

    "we should not otherwise engage you with reason and let the conversation stop there. "
    That is of course up to FP and yourselves.Muchiboy

    • Mike in VA

      It has been well within the power of the Palestinians and Arabs to bring an end to this conflict, but the will has never been there, Muchiboy. Sorry, but you can't lay the failure of the so-called peace process entirely on Israel's doorstep.

    • Rachman

      Muchiboy,
      You started off by saying ethnic cleansing and occupation caused the animosity to Israel. But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs. Not all Arabs, its true, but there was the massacre in Hebron etc..
      The Jews had not done any occupation and ethnic cleansing. And when they declared a state, they were invaded by multiple Arab armies, even though there were no Palestinian refugees at that time. As far as Israel having all the power, the Palestinians have a huge population of Arab and Moslem supporters in the states all around Israel, at least a hundred million of them. These supporters have and will make war on the Jewish state, and will soon have nukes.
      The Palestinians teach the most murderous and hate-filled propaganda and lies to their kids.
      I don't feel sorry for them, and Israel would be nuts to give them a state on the West Bank.
      That being said, I've met some nice Palestinians in the U.S.

      • Muchiboy

        But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

        Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.

    • aspacia

      The Arabs made their violent, discriminatory bed and they can sleep in it in another land. Morally, they are the ones who are bankrupt. Selling land to a Jew is a capital crime.

    • MixMChess

      "Given that Israel has so much power relative to the Palestinians,you have a moral duty and an obligation based on what they have lost to you and yours to bring about a just and fair resolution."

      Wrong, the Palestinians have much more power than the Israelis. The Palestinians receive arms from Syria, Iran and Turkey. The Palestinians literally receive billions in aid from the Saudis and other Arab nations. The Soviets in the cold war backed the Palestinians in their wars of extermination against the Jews. It is no surprise that the Jews are the David against the Arab/Palestinian Goliath.

      Despite all this, Israel repeatedly calls for peace with the Palestinians. Why did the Palestinians reject Baraks offer of statehood in 2000 without even a counter-negotiation and instead rioted and murdered Jews? Why did Palestinians respond to Israel withdrawing from Gaza by raining missiles on Israeli kindergartens and daycares?

      "Your refusal to acknowledge the wrongs done to the Palestinian people is proof that Jews do not deserve their own country."

      Jews nor Israelis have done nothing wrong to the Palestinians. The Palestinians on the other hand have a long history of murder, rape and violence against the Jews.

      "Israel certainly does not belong within the circle of civilized western liberal democracies,but rather with the more barbaric,anachronistic likes of Iran,Libya and N.Korea."

      Israel is not even comparable to those nations and has actually had more restraint than the US, UK and Canada when faced with similar terrorism. Try again.

      "Israel has simply failed to live up to their expectations."

      Boo hoo, Israel didn't live up to YOUR standards. Then of course you're only standard is that a dead Jew is a good Jew.

      "But what could you expect from a people who last ruled a barbaric biblical mid eastern nation some two thousand years ago."

      You never miss a good dig against the Jews no matter how untruthful it is?

      • Spirit_Of_1683

        What else can you expect from Muchiboy. There's nothing more he'd love to see than the crematioria in Auschwitz put back into use and the smoke rising from the chimneys again.

    • ziontruth

      "It's just that you i.e.Israel,have all the power and abuse it … Given that Israel has so much power relative to the Palestinians,you have a moral duty and an obligation …"

      In other words: Strong is wrong, plight makes right. A typically Leftist construct from our self-professed non-Marxist here.

      Earth to Muftiboy: It is entirely possible for the weak to be an oppressor and perpetrator of injustice. The purposeful targeting of women and children by the Arab settler suicide-murderers, something which the Stern "Gang" never did during the British Mandate, makes them oppressors and perpetrators of injustice. The Arab settlers' wish to obtain, not a state alongside the Jewish one but all the lands the Jews have, makes them oppressors and perpetrators of injustice.

    • aspacia

      Read the following facts: http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/11/04/david-horo

      Every claim made in this article I learned in a liberal left history university class run by a communist, and in another university class run by a religious liberal minister.

      These are the facts.

  • Mike in VA

    It is worth noting that the hate-Israel crowd here has conveniently overlooked the fact that if it weren't for the violations of UNSCR 1701 on the part of Hizb'Allah, Syria and Iran, we wouldn't even be having this discussion regarding renewed strikes against the Hizb in the first place. There's also been a remarkable silence about the Lebanese and UN's failure to enforce UNSCR 1701 and prevent Hizb'Allah from re-arming.

  • Muchiboy

    "The banks of the Rhine are not the Jews' home. "

    No,of course not.I just thought the observation that if life were fair,Israel would have been established on the banks of the Rhine,not the Jordan,given what country was responsible for the Holocaust.But of course the Europeans would not want a Jewish state on their continent.And given the behavior of Israel,who can blame them.

    ". Israel should insist on everything: the pre-1967 territories, "

    Sure,put everything on the table,pre 1948 borders,too.Send all Jews with European heritage e.g.Meir,Peres,Rabin, Eshkol(Shkolnik),Regev ( Freiberg)etc.

    "a worldview that holds that the Jews don't deserve anything in Palestine. "

    Certainly you deserve no more then the Palestinian people.You took more then was yours to take.In fact you are still taking what does not belong to you.

    "with the Arab settler-colonist invaders booted out."
    And the Jew settler-colonist occupier booted out
    we can turn the land over to a nature reserve.

    "I'm hardly the only Israeli Jew to have undergone this realization and the consequent change of view. And one day, my type is going to govern the Jewish State"

    Hopefully,by then,the Western world will see Israel for what it is and use the same tools used against South Africa in the past and Iran and N.Korea today.Maybe you should start cultivating relations with the likes of those countries before it's too late.Or maybe you can learn good manners and behaviors from your remaining Western friends and make peace and amends with your Palestinian cousins before it's too late.Personally,I would support Israel in its efforts if you went far and beyond your present feeble and insulting efforts at peace.Muchiboy

    • Mike in VA

      "No,of course not.I just thought the observation that if life were fair,Israel would have been established on the banks of the Rhine,not the Jordan,given what country was responsible for the Holocaust"

      By that idiotic "logic" the Jewish homeland could have been established along the banks of any river in the Middle East where Muslims massacred and/or subjugated Jews.

    • ziontruth

      "But of course the Europeans would not want a Jewish state on their continent."

      You just insist on not getting it.

      There was a plan for a Jewish sanctuary in Uganda, proposed by none other than Herzl (one of the founders of the renewed Zionism) himself. That proposal saw the members of the Zionist Congress walk out the door in front of his face. You know why?

      Because the Jews are the indigenous people of Palestine. Because there is no other place in the world that the Jews can call home.

      You trample this with your revisionist jackboots relentlessly. But the truth, even trampled, will always resurface.

      "Send all Jews with European heritage e.g.Meir,Peres,Rabin, Eshkol(Shkolnik),Regev ( Freiberg)etc."

      I didn't realize Palestine had a "No Whites Allowed" sign on its entry. You sure are working hard to compensate, to hypercorrect your Rhodesian adventure, Muftiboy.

      In any case, unlike your view, Jewishness is not tied to race. The anti-Zionists' accusations are a prong that bends to poke them in their own eyes.

      "Certainly you deserve no more then the Palestinian people."

      Certainly the Arab settler-colonist invaders deserve no more than the Palestinian people, who are the Jews.

      "And the Jew settler-colonist occupier"

      A definitional impossibility. Jews are the indigenous of Palestine.

      "and use the same tools used against South Africa in the past"

      You can see, already in the present, that the boycotts of Israel only end up producing more and more Israeli Jewish right-wingers. Carry on, then.

      "Or maybe you can learn good manners and behaviors from your remaining Western friends"

      Who exactly would that be? If you're talking about Europe, Europe's about to fall to Islamic rule barring an indigenous insurrection there. You're hopelessly out of date, Muftiboy.

    • SECREV

      "You took more then was yours to take."

      I am not a jew, let alone an israeli jew. But documented history says that above sentence is a lie. In fact it is exact inversion of truth. Israel now is left with 20% of the terrirory that was set aside by the british mandate for the Jewish state. Most of Palestine was usurped by Hashemite and pseudo-hashemite 'royalty' who carved out states and territorries—Jordan and Syria comes to mind. So, ma'am, each 'palestinian' in israel is indeed a refugee from Jordan and Syria. On top of that these megalomaniacs attacked the newborn israel on its day of birth. I say Israel should take over entire palestine (including jordan, sinai penn, and some chuncks of Lebanon and Syria. Then kick out each arab from their country. And then seal the borders. Good luck with 'non-apartheid' 'south-africa-like' fun for the palestinians in those territories. Of course, muchiboy, unlike others who got sucked into a 'coversation' with you,this comment of mine is not an invitation to a debate. Write what you want. Fortunately, truth doesn't change as per the whims of what you decide to write.

      • Muchiboy

        "Of course, muchiboy, unlike others who got sucked into a 'coversation' with you,this comment of mine is not an invitation to a debate. Write what you want. Fortunately, truth doesn't change as per the whims of what you decide to write."

        OK. Muchiboy

  • Rob

    With the religious fanatics in Israel having the bomb I feel they are as likely to use it as the Iranian religious fanatics' Quid pro quo

    • Mike in VA

      The Israelis have had the Bomb for years. So much for your "logic".

    • MixMChess

      The religious fanatics in Israel are a small minority, whereas the religious fanatics in the rest of the Arab/Islamic world are the majority. Now THATS scary.

  • aspacia

    Israel does not practice gender apartheid; Muslims do.

  • American Patriot

    Israel-you know what you need to do, and the majority of Christian Americans (which is a majority) stands behind you. Do not let a political 'want-a-be' and his cabinet presume to change anything because it all is in God's control anyway. It is destined.

  • Muchiboy

    "he Arabs made their violent, discriminatory bed and they can sleep in it in another land. Morally, they are the ones who are bankrupt. Selling land to a Jew is a capital crime."

    What mean spiritedness,aspacia.And what would you call buying settles land to occupy,colonize and eventually ethnically cleanse the peasants.To me,it represents the uglier side of the Jew,of humanity.Not one of the Jews or Humanities finest hours.Reminds me of the highland clearances in Scotland. But these happened as late as the 19th not the 20th century..Again,not one of mans finest hours,and these were fellow Highland Scots.Maybe not evil,just plain inhuman.Muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      And what would you call buying settles land to occupy,colonize and eventually ethnically cleanse the peasants.To me,it represents the uglier side of the Jew,of humanity"

      Wrong again moron, Jews bought VACANT and TENANT-FREE land. They never "occupied" or "colonized" the land. It was theirs legally and historically.

      The Palestinians were not peasants either, many of the "peasant" Bedouins and Druze actually sided with Israel, and fought against the true colonizers, the invading Arab armies. Recall, it was the wealthy that fled the land first to allow the Arab armies to invade and exterminate the poor Jews.

    • aspacia

      And you are also living on occupied land. The colonists were pretty brutal to the Native Americans and the Australian aboriginals, just a Britain was brutal to the natives in their colonized lands.

      I repeat, the Arab/Muslim governments are far more morally bankrupt than Israel. Both men and women and gays serve in the IDF Women and gays are legally protected.

      In contrast Muslim leaders steal from the people. The Egyptian born Arafat had billions socked away; money meant for his people. Ditto with Saddam Hussain, the UN oil for food scandal, and the rest of the Middle-East which has no public education system, nor economic infrastructure despite their billions in oil revenue.

  • Muchiboy

    "By that idiotic "logic" the Jewish homeland could"

    I don't think it idiotic at all Mike.After all,the Germans were responsible for arguably the most horrendous,unconscionable crime against Jews and Humanity ever.And it occurred within some of our lifetimes,not in the middle ages,when maybe we didn't know better.And it conveniently increased the possibility and reality of re-creating Israel.And such an act arguably might justify in lieu of reparations their own state.The Palestinians didn't do anything to deserve occupation and ethnic cleansing.The Germans did.Muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "And it conveniently increased the possibility and reality of re-creating Israel."

      Wrong, Israel was well on its way to becoming a nation before the Holocaust. Israel was created despite the Holocaust not in spite of it. The Holocaust may have merely served as a catalyst to speed the process of statehood.

      "The Palestinians didn't do anything to deserve occupation and ethnic cleansing."

      Good thing, since they were never occupied or ethnically cleansed. The lies won't get any more truthful the more you repeat them.

  • http://northjew.blogspot.com amy w

    The UN probably already has its condemnation already written

  • Colter

    Soon will the first of three wars ignite on the borders of Israel. Israel is about to change the geo-political landscape of the middle east! God will use the Isralei army to begin the destruction of Islam. This is a pre-cursor to an even greater wipe out of the muslims and the russians, coming not long afterward. Then the world will continue in wars and turmoil until the Tribulation period is ended with Armeggedon, and the return of Jesus Christ to take the world and institute his reign of a thousand years from Jerusalem. We are on the cusp of that end of the age battle. Prepare to meet your God for he is surely coming to meet you!

    • http://www.mysapce.com/freddawes1776/ Fred Dawes

      listen to God if people attack jews that people disappear, just look at the Holocaust.

      • Rob

        God do I hate religious fanatics looking forward Armaggedon. God willing may you be "raptured" straight to hell!

        • Spirit_Of_1683

          You look forward to Islamic religious fanatics lording it over us, traitor.

  • Muchiboy

    "But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.

    "The Jews had not done any occupation and ethnic cleansing."
    The occupation is a matter of historical record.At least that's how I describe hundreds of thousands of European Jews emigrating to Palestine intent on colonizing the country of a majority of non Jews under the control of foreign European nations. Now I do expect an argument over ethnic cleansing.But that's how I describe the actions of the Jews when through war,terror,fear,death Palestinians flee or are driven from their homeland and refused the right of return,which is the human right of all war refugees.I see it quite simply,my friend,that if Jews have a right of return after hundreds if not thousands of years the Palestinians have that same right of return after mere decades.Unreasonable?I suggest inhumane.

    "The Palestinians teach the most murderous .."

    Maybe.But I recall an interview on our CBC with a young Israeli women brought up in a settlement.It was informative.She described her "education" there and how one sided it was.

    "Israel would be nuts to give them a state "

    I feel the same way about the Western nations and the UN giving the Jews a state in Israel.But there is a moral imperative here for the western liberal democracies,(justice for the Palestinians)as there was with South Africa.And something the Israelis and Jewish Diaspora ignore,the resentment of the Muslim world for their unfair support.Al Qaeda gave as one reason for 911 the crimes against the Palestinians and support for Israel.Really,Jews and Israelis put the Western democracies at risk and in a very difficult world position.

    "I've met some nice Palestinians."

    Well,of course.I don't have a problem in saying most Muslims,Jews Palestinians and Israelis are nice.Not to mention those contributors on FP.Muchiboy

    • john velts

      there seem to be very reasonable arguments on both sides; hence the difficulty in a resolution. It would seem to me that taking the archaic religious arguments off the table would be a starting point. How can reasonable resolution come about if both sides use what is no more than mythology as a basis for their inactions or actions?

  • Muchiboy

    "Israel would be nuts to give them a state "

    I feel the same way about the Western nations and the UN giving the Jews a state in Israel.But there is a moral imperative here for the western liberal democracies,(justice for the Palestinians)as there was with South Africa.And something the Israelis and Jewish Diaspora ignore,the resentment of the Muslim world for their unfair support.Al Qaeda gave as one reason for 911 the crimes against the Palestinians and support for Israel.Really,Jews and Israelis put the Western democracies at risk and in a very difficult world position.

    "I've met some nice Palestinians."

    Well,of course.I don't have a problem in saying most Muslims,Jews Palestinians and Israelis are nice.Not to mention those contributors on FP.Muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "But there is a moral imperative here for the western liberal democracies,(justice for the Palestinians)as there was with South Africa."

      The only moral imperative is that the Palestinians apologize for their war, xenophobia, murder, rape and hatred directed at the Jews.

      "And something the Israelis and Jewish Diaspora ignore,the resentment of the Muslim world for their unfair support.Al Qaeda gave as one reason for 911 the crimes against the Palestinians and support for Israel.Really,Jews and Israelis put the Western democracies at risk and in a very difficult world position."

      This is probably one of your most idiotic statements, congratulations! Al Qaeda hated America because of the existence of American military bases in Saudia Arabia and other areas of the Persian Gulf. This was true regardless of U.S. policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflictl. Previous attacks on American targets, such as the USS Cole and U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, were perpetrated by suicide bombers whose anger at the United States had nothing to do with Israel. The so-called "plight of the Palestinians" is merely a convenient afterthought.

      Dr. Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari, dean of Shar’ia and Law at Qatar University criticized Al Qaeda: “In their hypocrisy, many of the [Arab] intellectuals linked September 11 with the Palestinian problem — something that completely contradicts seven years of Al-Qaida literature. Al-Qaida never linked anything to Palestine.”

      Even Yasser Arafat criticized Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: “[Bin Laden] never helped us, he was working in another completely different area and against our interests,”

      • iking

        True. Al Qaeda is burning with anger because of the prescence of the US Bases in their 'holy land' and because the Saudi royals refused their(Al Qaeda) offer to help defend the kingdom against Saddam Hussein instead o depending on non-muslim US military.

    • ziontruth

      "the resentment of the Muslim world for their unfair support.Al Qaeda gave as one reason for 911 the crimes against the Palestinians and support for Israel"

      Of course. But I just answered the doorbell, and there's a Danish cartoonist who would like to speak with you.

      "Really,Jews and Israelis put the Western democracies at risk and in a very difficult world position."

      Personally, I blame it all on the bicyclists.

  • Muchiboy

    But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.

    "The Jews had not done any occupation and ethnic cleansing."
    The occupation is a matter of historical record.At least that's how I describe hundreds of thousands of European Jews emigrating to Palestine intent on colonizing the country of a majority of non Jews under the control of foreign European nations. Now I do expect an argument over ethnic cleansing.But that's how I describe the actions of the Jews when through war,terror,fear,death Palestinians flee or are driven from their homeland and refused the right of return,which is the human right of all war refugees.I see it quite simply,my friend,that if Jews have a right of return after hundreds if not thousands of years the Palestinians have that same right of return after mere decades.Unreasonable?I suggest inhumane.

    "The Palestinians teach the most murderous .."

    Maybe.But I recall an interview on our CBC with a young Israeli women brought up in a settlement.It was informative.She described her "education" there and how one sided it was.Muchiboy

  • Muchiboy

    But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation. Muchiboy

  • Muchiboy

    But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked …"

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.

  • Muchiboy

    "when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.

  • Muchiboy

    "But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    You blame them,or at least can you understand them?They must have known what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes and the importance of a Jewish homeland.But just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation. Muchiboy

  • MixMChess

    "The occupation is a matter of historical record."

    Wrong as usual. Jews cannot occupy their own land. Israel was created through legal purchases of VACANT and TENANT-FREE land and through international law based on Jews historical, legal and moral rights to the land. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and the W. Bank cannot be described as "occupation" since Israel acquired it legally in a defensive war against Arab aggression.

    "At least that's how I describe hundreds of thousands of European Jews emigrating to Palestine intent on colonizing the country of a majority of non Jews under the control of foreign European nations."

    Again you have no clue what you're talking about. Israel can in no way be described as colonization. First of all, Israel was against the only European colonizing power, the British. The Jews who immigrated to the Land of Israel over the MILLENIA never represented an alien colonizing power. For instance, "French Jews who immigrated to the Land of Israel did not do this for the sake of France," and so on. Moreover, Jewish immigrants throughout the centuries did not grab land by force; they PURCHASED it. Jews obviously did not plunder their own land for the benefit of any foreign colonial power. They did not impose Judaism on the local Arab population. Arabic is one of the countries main languages.

  • MixMChess

    "But that's how I describe the actions of the Jews when through war,terror,fear,death Palestinians flee or are driven from their homeland and refused the right of return,which is the human right of all war refugees."

    Another lie. Its a fact that thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of the war, and thousands more responded to Arab leaders’ calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, so they could push the Jews into the sea. Its also a fact that Israel pleaded and begged for the Arabs to stay and become part of their country and not go to war with them. Israel’s Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:

    "In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions….We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all."

    There were only a few cases (clearly the exception) whereby hostile Arab populations were forcibly expelled accounting for only a small fraction of the Palestinian refugees. Even famous revisionist historian Benny Morris noted that most of the Arabs simply fled before and during the Arab war of aggression on their own accord and not as a result of any Israeli action.

    "I see it quite simply,my friend,that if Jews have a right of return after hundreds if not thousands of years the Palestinians have that same right of return after mere decades.Unreasonable?"

    No, because Israel was never the home of the Palestinians, they are simply Arabs from surrounding areas their right of return is to Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan. Don't forget, UNRWA through Arab dollars and lobbying stretched the definition of Palestinian refugee to include anyone that lived in the region during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948. That means that an Egyptian native with an apartment in Gaza during that less than two year period could claim refugee status. Not only that but somehow his descendants into perpetuity can claim refugee status even if they have completely resettled in another country.

  • Muchiboy

    "But when the Jews immigrated to "Palestine", they were attacked repeatedly by Arabs."

    Can you blame them,or at least can you understand them?The Arabs knew what Zionism meant for them.I know it's difficult to put yourself in their shoes given the history of the Jews and Israel and the importance of a Jewish homeland and a sanctuary.Just look how Americans feel about Mexican or Muslim immigrants,and America is a powerful nation.Muchiboy

  • MixMChess

    "Maybe.But I recall an interview on our CBC with a young Israeli women brought up in a settlement.It was informative.She described her "education" there and how one sided it was."

    More lies… It is very well documented that the textbooks in Palestinian Authority, promote hatred of Jews and Israel. By contrast, Israeli textbooks are oriented toward peace and tolerance. "The Palestinians are accepted as Palestinians. Islam and Arab culture are referred to with respect. Islamic holy places are discussed along with Jewish ones. Stereotypes are avoided to educate against prejudice."

    In fact, Israeli textbooks explain the origins of Palestinian nationalism. For example, a 9th grade text states that “during the 1930’s, Arab nationalist movements evolved all over the Middle East. Many of the Arabs of Eretz Yisrael also began formulating a national consciousness — in other words, the perception that they are not just part of the larger Arab nation, but are also Palestinians” (The Twentieth Century – On the Threshold of Tomorrow, Grade 9, 1999, p.44).

    One text highlights Arabs role as creators of culture: “…they were the first to discover the existence of infectious diseases. They were also the first to build public hospitals. Because of their considerable contribution to various scientific fields, there are disciplines that to this day are called by their Arabic names, such as algebra. The Islamic religion also influenced the development of culture. The obligation to pray in the direction of Mecca led to the development of astronomy, which helped identify the direction according to the heavenly bodies. The duty to make a pilgrimage developed geography and gave a push to the writing of travel books. These books, and the Arabs’ high capability in map drawing, helped develop trade. To this day, merchants use Arabic words, such as bazaar, check and tariff” (From Generation to Generation, Vol. b, 1994, p. 220).

    Israeli texts show respect for the Arab/Muslim attachment to the land. “The Land of Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular, have been sanctified more and more in Islamic thought — as Islam has developed and spread, both religiously and geographically. As Islam absorbed more and more of the world conquered by it, so it adapted and Islamized the values that it absorbed, including the holiness of the Land of Israel, its flora and its water, living in it, the sanctity of being buried in it and the like. All these became from that time onwards part of orthodox Islam” (H. Peleg, G. Zohar, This is the Land – Introduction to Land of Israel Studies for the Upper Grades, 2000, pp. 161-162).

    Do you really need more examples?

    • Rob

      Israel's Rabbi's in the last few months have called for the annihilation of all Arabs, claimed non- Jews were created to serve Jews and they can be killed with impunity, that terrorists children shold be hung. Oh and the classic book by a Rabbi legitimizimg killing non-Jews and their babies preemptivly. Aren't Rabbi's your religious teachers. I guess their hate curriculum and their "fatwas' are OK with you. This curriculum is sure one of "peace and tolerance".

  • Deb

    I wish there was a way to keep the Jew haters from the myriad of technological and medical advances procured by Jews. They would shut up quick then. And drop dead shortly thereafter.

    • Abdullah

      Avicenna wasn't a Jew hater, and many thousands of Jews and Gentiles all over Europe studied under his medical guidence…for 600 years.

      Give human kind credit where it is due, to human kind.

      Not Jewkind, nor Muslimkind, not Hindukind…

      Humankind.

      Issac Newton "If I have seen further than other men, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants"

      • Indioviejo

        Newton did not have Muslims in mind. Remember, Muhammad was illiterate and so were his accomplices. Every advance in Islamic science came either from the Greeks or the Indians. Mohamed's envy of the Jews is clearly exposed in the Quran. His wretchedness is open for the world to see.

        • Muchiboy

          "Every advance in Islamic science came either from the Greeks or the Indians. "

          You are ignorant or a plain fool to minimize the role of the Muslims in the preservation and transfer of knowledge to the West at a time when Europe was in the Dark Ages.Knowledge belongs to mankind.Muchiboy

          • Spirit_Of_1683

            It came from the infidels who lived in Muslim-occupied land. Muslims never did a thing, other than murder and ill-treat the infidels who had the misfiortune to live under their iron rule. Most of what was built in Muslim countries from the 600s onwards was built by kidnapped infidels who they enslaved. What do you think happened to Europeans and Americans kidnapped by Muslim Barbary pirates? They were sold on the slave market, but that truth is too much for a Jew-hating buffoon like yourself to stomach, so instead you spill your anti-Jewish bile here day after day like a modern-day Hitler.

    • Rob

      AHH here we go again with the Jewish "master race" crap. I wish there was away to keep Jews from the myraid of technological and medical advances procured by non-Jews. They would shut up quick then. And drop dead shortly thereafter. Obviously you agree with Rabbi Yosef's comments. The Jews are better than anyone else.

      • MixMChess

        "And drop dead shortly thereafter."

        I'm sure you would love that. Shouldn't you be posting on jewwatch.com or rense.com?

        • Rob

          I simply was quoting Deb from her earlier post and replaced Jew-haters with Jews. Her comment was "And drop dead shortly thereafter". I can post wherever I want.

  • http://www.mysapce.com/freddawes1776/ Fred Dawes

    If the jews are mass murdered we are all next; there is no peace with evil like the muslims.
    I am No great lover of Jews but I know evil when I see it. and understand jews will not cut your head-off muslims will with great love of doing your killing. read Colter he maybe right on the God thing and the jews, any who look with open eyes can see what the muslim is, of hell.

    • Rob

      I am not fond of the Moslem religion either but look at recent comments by Israeli Rabbis. A popular book in Israel written by a Rabbi is a 230 page justification for Jews killing non-Jews and even their babies pre-emptivly for no reason. It is all based on Jewish religious texts. I don't see much diference in the religious fanatism of the Muslim world and of Israel.

      • Spirit_Of_1683

        "I am not fond of the Moslem religion either"

        How's that nose going, Pinocchio?

  • Indioviejo

    It is so sad that the world has to incubate such irrational anti-semitism as periodically evidenced in the MSM. That so few, should elicit such hatred, from so many, for so long,is truly irrational. It is only fair for Israel to defend itself by ALL means necessary, and let the chips fall where they may. The Jews can only count ultimately on themselves, as it has always been the case. God bless Israel and its brave people.

  • Baeticus

    What part of history don't you get MIke? if you count the time between King David and the death of Mohamed there is a spam of almost 2,000 years of continuous Jewish presence in Judea and Samaria. If you then accept the right of Muslims to be in conquered land (West Bank) by the right of conquest then Israel, has the right to conquer, not only its land, any other land it can under the same principle. Spain had been in existence for 949 years when the Muslims invaded it. It took another 700 years before they were kicked out. Israel must keep it in mind next time it fights them.
    Also it is really sickening how some people defend the Muslims. Are you people for real? Are you ignorant of the nature of Islam? or simply masochistic? Really sickening.

  • Muchiboy

    OMG,I am antisemetic!

    "Tackling Antisemitism

    Ammendment 801c titled "Tackling Antisemitism" is where things got interesting. The motion provided the EU Monitoring Center's definition of antisemitism (now addopted by the EU) and called for it to be implemented across the student movement.

    The interest arises because the EU definition includes that

    "such manifestations [of antisemitism] could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity".

    The definitions includes a list of examples, such as "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel". http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antisemitism/EU-de

    • Rob

      If Jews worldwide continue to support an Israeli government that commit atrocities they are collectively responsible and right now with religious fanatics ruling the government the silence of worldwide Jews is deafening

  • Eddie

    When will Rob and the rest of his klan end their brutal, racist occupation of Native American land?

  • Muchiboy

    "Her wants to risk blowing up the whole world in a nuclear holocast with a nuclear Iran for an end to the arab-israeli war?"

    Neither Israel nor the Western world has moved with any sincerity to address the legitimate and on going grievances of the Palestinian people after sixty years of suffering and hopelessness.With no incentive to settle with her victims,this nuclear armed ,mighty mid east power has gone to war several times, always victorious against multiple neighboring Arab states.
    That the one mid east state responsible for the most serious human rights abuses and crimes against humanity in the region should think itself the sole legitimate and righteous possessor of a nuclear arsenal is perverse ,no less then a non Arab,non Jewish Fundamentalist Islamic nuclear capable state.
    Interestingly,the only power to use nuclear weapons against civilian targets is America,and that twice,never to be repeated.

    "A little extreme. "The operation was a success, but the ptient died"… Wacko. "

    There is only one nuclear armed power in the region with maybe hundreds of nuclear weapons i.e.Israel.I repeat,hundreds of nukes,more then a little extreme.Even without nukes,the IDF is among the most powerful military forces in the world.
    Given that Israel has gone to war with her Arab neighbors several times and always successfully there seems little incentive for this Zionist state to act on Palestinian grievances.The threat or realization of a nuclear capable Iran may push Israel to settle one of the most serious and destabilizing threats in the region.We have Arabs,Jews and a non-Arab Iran for an interesting mix and politics does make for strange bedfellows.Israel as a mid eastern state,not a Western liberal democracy, needs to align herself with other regional states as opposed to a perpetual state of misalignment.As for the patient dieing,that is as much in the hands of Israel and the Jews as it is any other country in the region,maybe even more.Muchiboy.

  • aspacia

    True enough, but the numbers are small. Remember Jews only constitute .02 % of the world's population, and Israeli laws restrict any discrimination regarding gender or religion. When the too religious step out of line, Israeli courts hammer them.

    In contrast, most Muslims believe and practice gender and religious discrimination because it is sanctioned in the Qu'ran. Most, if not all the Muslim Middle-East impose Sharia Law upon their lands. Israel does not have any laws that do this. There are 1.5 billion practicing Muslims in the world, and even if only 1% of them are radicalized that adds up to 12 million people. These numbers far exceed orthadox Haredi Jews. Actually, Jew protest the stipends the Yeshiva Jews receive and the religious exception to serving in the military.

    Arab Muslims did not ask for a Palestinian state when Egypt controlled Gaza, and Jordan ruled the West Bank. Both Egypt and Jordan practice Sharia Law. The call for a Palestinian state is a political attempt to destroy Israel because Muslims do not allow rule by nonMuslims; THIS IS PURE RACISM or RELIGIOUSCISM ON THE MUSLIM'S PART.

    • Rob

      At least you agree that there is some gender apartheid in Israel. Don't kid yourself "When the too religious step out of line, Israel"s courts hammer them. The Israel courts don't touch Israel"s fanatics. The settlers injure, kill, harass, firebomb mosques and churches, destroy Palestinian property and are never arrested and in the unlikely case it ever gets to court they are set free. Recently two Israeli"s one a Rabbi wrote a book justifying the killing non-Jews and even their babies preemptivly. The were asked to meet by the Shabbat and never showed up and end of story. They just thumbed their noses at the government and walked away after that level of incitement. The fatwas coming from Israel's Rabbi's are no less abhorent than those coming from the Islamic world Both countries religious leaders are cut from the same cloth. And Israel's racism is definitely equivalent to that of worst in the Arab world and it is growing.

      • aspacia

        So that is why Israel expelled Jewish settlers from Gaza. The settlers are far less violent than the Muslims and you know it or do not watch MEMRI or Palestinian media watch.

        There are more Muslims who condone murdering NonMuslims than Jews or Christians. The fanatic Jews are held in derision by most of Israel. In contrast, fanatic Muslims the Shaheeds have streets and parks named after their homicidal attacks.

  • aspacia

    Your facts are totally wrong regarding refugees. There have been million of refugees world-wide, and most did not return to their homelands. The only reason there are Arab refugees stems from the fact that the Arab/Muslim world will not allow the "Palestinians" citizenship or the right to work in certain jobs. In contrast, Israel has absorbed most of the 650,000 Jewish refugees into Israel. These Jewish refugees were never given compensation for their lands; why should Muslims receive any or any land.

  • Muchiboy

    "And you are also living on occupied land."

    Yes,aspacia,but so are ALL the first nations people who originally settled this land before it was occupied.No refugee camps,no Wall,no anything,just immigrants and their descendants from all over the world living alongside all those natives who claim Canada as their birth right and homeland.We are living the Canadian dream here,not the Zionist nightmare there.My God,we even accept Israeli's and Palestinians as citizens here.Something to be damn proud of.Something countries like Iran,N.Korea and Israel should take note of. Muchiboy

    • aspacia

      And the Pals will not accept Jews. So?

      • Muchiboy

        "And the Pals will not accept Jews. So? "

        I don't know that,Aspacia.I suppose you won't either unless you ask.I don't know how you learn to trust those who kill your children and friends with suicide bombs just as I don't know how you trust those who occupy your land.
        But the question is moot,isn't it?The Israelis just don't accept the idea of a single state solution.Too bad,because it would be even nicer to visit Israel if it were whole again.As to the attitudes of the Palestinians,well of course there are Palestinians who would accept and welcome Jews in their homeland,just as there are Jews who would welcome Palestinians above and beyond 20%.Now whether the Palestinians could be magnanimous and accepting I don't know.
        Jews sharing Israel with Palestinians.Palestinians sharing Palestine with Jews.
        The former is already a reality,sort of,and the latter was a reality in times past.Wish I could make it so,aspecia.But as time passes,positions harden.Whereas once there was the PLO,now there is the more fundamentalist Hamas.And of course there are your extremists settlers.Muchiboy

        • aspacia

          BOY, you have zero historic background; just Arab lies. My claims lie in valid primary source evidence, and valid historic data. Again, reread the history of the conflict and really try to understand the simple fact Jews are, and have always been the victims. Again, I am not Jewish, nor religious, just reacting from a sense of justice.

  • Phil

    Unless, of course, the "Bretheren" agree, which, sorry to say, many actually do.

  • Ira Kasper

    Not all Muslims are bad. It is the politicalization of Islam that is the problem. It is the infestation of the Muslim Brotherhood and its tentacles. We need to try to see that some are not antisemitic nor anti-Israel. Those that are, are enemies. There is no difference between antisemitism and anti-Zionism.

  • David

    “The Palestinians didn't do anything to deserve occupation and ethnic cleansing. The Germans did.Muchiboy”

    First let’s make one thing clear. Israel was not rebuilt as the consequence to the Holocaust, but because it’s the Jewish homeland. Jews have been majority in Jerusalem since 1804. They had been living in Hebron since they founded the city until the Muslim massacres of Jews in 1929.

    The League of Nations designated current Israel and Jordan as a homeland of Jewish people. If you think that they didn’t have right to do so then Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia are also illegal nations since they were formed by the same League of Nations and were as Israel previously occupied by the Ottoman Empire.

    If persecution of Jews is a criterion for ceding territory, as Muchiboy thinks, then I would like to remind him that Palestinian leadership had a lot to do with Nazism. The Jerusalem Mufti Haj el Husseini was a close friend of Hitler. He formed SS Hanjar division in Bosnia, that fought with the Axis powers and was responsible for the killing of 15,000 Bosnian Jews and a large number of Bosnian Serbs. Another group the Mufti formed was Skender Beg Division with Kosovo Albanian Muslims that was responsible for killing of Jews in Kosovo and Macedonia.

    I would also remind Muchiboy that in so called Jewish occupied East Jerusalem there is the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world, serving as a Jewish burial ground for 2000 years, Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem and of course the ancient Jewish Temple, the holiest Jewish site, now occupied by Muslims and covered with 2 mosques. All Jews pray turned toward Jerusalem (not the Rhine), while Muslims pray toward Mecca. The Muslims living in Jerusalem turn their backs to the city when they pray toward Mecca.

  • Muchiboy

    "There have been million of refugees world-wide, and most did not return to their homelands"

    So what?There were millions of Jews herded into the death camps,and most of them didn't return to their homelands either.
    My arguments against Zionism are as much based on the moral repugnance of that policy as anything else.Antisemitism notwithstanding , Zionism necessitated a de facto policy of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and Jews knew that.Your attempts at dismissing Palestinian refugees while celebrating the hundreds of thousands of replacement European Jewish refugees is nothing short of contemptuous and cruel.The lie of course is in establishing an Israeli "Law of Return"for the right of return for all Jews e.g.French,American,Canadian,Russian,Ethiopian and if one made it to Mars fifteen hundred years ago,him too,while denying or refusing to recognize a similar right of return for legitimate Palestinian war refugees.
    Following is Article 13 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights,establishing the right of return (of persons e.g. refugees even Palestinians are people) to their homeland.The spirit and sentiment of the article is clear and universal (until the lawyers and special interest groups interfere.) .

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights
    Human rights set out in the Declaration
    Article 13
    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
    2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including their own, and to return to their country.

    Of course,the devil is always in the details,aspicia,unfortunately.(In)Human nature dictates that Jews would never jeopardize their ill gained majority by doing whats right by their Palestinian victims.But the Zionists started the ball rolling,and for the most part invited themselves to Palestine,so the moral onus is on them.Always has been.

    " The only reason there are Arab refugees stems from the fact that the Arab/Muslim world will not allow the "Palestinians" citizenship or the right to work in certain jobs."

    And I thought it stemmed from the Jew/Arab war.In keeping with (in)human nature,most refugees result from the horrors and fears of war and ethnic cleansing.Silly me.Muchiboy

  • Muchiboy

    "How can reasonable resolution come about if both sides use what is no more than mythology as a basis for their inactions or actions?"

    It's the human thing to do,John.I think it's only when you go to a cosmopolitan,multi-colored,multi-cultural,multi-ethnic city like Toronto that you might see,understand and perhaps embrace the future alternative.We are presently a narrow minded,parochial species.Not just the Jews,Muslims too.It would be quite a leap of faith for the the Jews in Israel to embrace many more Palestinians.As a Canadian with mixed ethnicity i.e.mongrel e.g.Scot,Palestinian,English my mindset is understandably different.I don't feel the necessity to live among "my own people" anymore e.g.,Scots,Palestinians,English,whites.It's now good enough that I live among people with similar values and ideals and worldviews and I think that's what we are working towards in Canada.Same I guess in the EU. But we all have our comfort zones and fears and prejudices.
    We see Palestinians,Scots,Irish,Indians,Iranians,Tamils,Jews,Israelis,etc. emigrating to Canada.With my Scot ancestry I have no desire to live in the Scottish Highlands.Not many Muslims going the other way unless to train in Jihad.Still don't understand why Jews here would desire to live in a Zionist state when the Palestinians are excluded.
    Anyway,we have a long way to go here on earth.The ideal has to be walking into some bar and mixing with intelligent beings from all over the galaxies.I just don't envy the bar keep or the short order cook.Muchiboy

    • Jerry

      Your bar keep and short-order cook have the most interesting jobs in the universe.

      If you were "objective", you could just have easily started your quest for peace by proclaiming the status quo satisfactory. Instead, you have decided that the sins of the Jews require expiation.

      Probably you have not visited Israel, but rather make your judgments on analogy. Poor excuse for understanding. The true peace of Jerusalem and Israel permeates daily life. Tel Aviv is like Manhattan. The intermixing of languages, people, customs, food, music, etc has few rival in the world. You should try the Vietnamese food, prepared by boat people that Israel took in after the Vietnam war. Perhaps the Darfurian refugees who have come across the Egyptian border at the risk of their lives from Egyptian border guards have also begun to open eateries. The peace of Jerusalem overwhelms the visitor. The quiet of Saturdays is emblematic of how a peaceful world could be. For that you would choose the compulsions of Islam or the entropy of world ignorance. You would seek "justice" in the world of an apartheid Palestinian state.

      Put simply, your support of the "justice" which is truly unattainable in any world you can conjure belies the peace that is everyday life for both Jews and Arabs in Israel today. Ask any visitor.

      • Muchiboy

        "Your bar keep and short-order cook have the most interesting jobs in the universe. "

        You want the job as bouncer? Muchiboy

      • Muchiboy

        "You should try the Vietnamese food, prepared by boat people that Israel took in after the Vietnam war. Perhaps the Darfurian refugees who have come across the Egyptian border at the risk of their lives from Egyptian border guards have also begun to open eateries."

        As I was listing the ethnicity's that emigrate to Canada I did hesitate some as I thought of the mixture that is Israel today.You mention of course the Vietnamese and refugees from Darfur.But what about the Palestinian refugees on your very doorstep?You offer citizenship,a homeland and sanctuary to Jews and non Jews across the world but deny those with a stronger claim to the land.
        Whether on the surface or some deeper level the moral imperative for a fair and just resolution is as urgent and apparent as it was in Rhodesia or South Africa.The non Africans in both those countries made very difficult decisions because of equally difficult and bad decisions made in the beginning.
        For starters,you can take your wall past Gaza and the West Bank and have the entirety of Palestine without creating more refugees.Leaps of faith are risky but hold much promise.Muchiboy

        • Jerry

          .Leaps of faith are risky but hold much promise.

          You sit on a cloud and pronounce ex cathedra that the Jews need to take a chance that could result in their disappearance – their children and their children's children. The Jews accept those who do not seek their destruction – Darfurians, Vietnamese, Christian Zionists, Druze, Chircassians, Armenians, Black Hebrews, Gentile Russians (1/8 Jewish), Ethiopians, Bedouin who do not seek the destruction of the state. Precisely who do the Arabs accept in their midst? Copts in Egypt – no, Jews in Jordan – no, Christians in Iraq – no; Ba'hai, Zorastrians in Iran, Cypriot Greeks in norther Cyprus, Eastern Orthodox in Turkey – no.

          A few facts would bolster your argument, but you cannot present precedents for your suggestion that "leaps hold promise." Best evidence is that leaps predict disaster.

          • Muchiboy

            .Leaps of faith are risky but hold much promise.

            "You sit on a cloud and pronounce ex cathedra that the Jews need to take a chance that could result in their disappearance – their children and their children's children."

            Firstly,there likely is no people more versatile and adaptable then the Jewish people.Jews are here to stay,thank God.And yes,your fears are not without grounds and substance given both the history of the re-creation of Israel and the crisis regionally and in the Islamic world generally.That said,my position is that Zionism and it's successful creation of a Jewish homeland at the expense of the Palestinian people is one,if not the major, cause of your dilemma;security for Israel and justice for the Palestinians.In other words,it's your problem,fix it.To date,you chose armies,walls,illegal settlements, boycotts and the unequivocal support of America to delay a riskier,costlier but just solution.

            " The Jews accept those who do not seek their destruction – Darfurians, Vietnamese, Christian Zionists, Druze, Chircassians, Armenians, Black Hebrews, Gentile Russians (1/8 Jewish), Ethiopians, Bedouin who do not seek the destruction of the state."

            But don't accept the very people whose homeland was occupied.To my mind,this says more about the Jewish People then it does about the Palestinian people.

            "Precisely who do the Arabs accept in their midst? Copts in Egypt – no, Jews in Jordan – no, Christians in Iraq – no; Ba'hai, Zorastrians in Iran, Cypriot Greeks in norther Cyprus, Eastern Orthodox in Turkey – no."

            You ,or the Jews,or the Zionists or Israelis are in no position to criticize or pass judgment on any state or people as to who they accept or don't accept,not with hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees on your doorstep,if not your conscience.

            "A few facts would bolster your argument, but you cannot present precedents for your suggestion that "leaps hold promise." Best evidence is that leaps predict disaster.

            So far,de Klerk's risky move in South Africa has paid peace dividends.Now Zimbabwe is a scarier example but the longer you wait the more intransigent and irreconcilable both parties become.In some ways,the two state solution makes some common sense,but on the other hand so does a single state solution.After all,a single state solution gives Jews,and yes,Palestinians,too,the entirety of their or your dream homeland.Don't tell me that in itself is not worthy of consideration.
            Israel is desperately in need of regional allies as the region becomes even more dangerous.Iran has aspirations that impact on Israeli security.As Russia becomes more stable and wealthier there may again be an arms race in the region.Muchiboy

          • Rob

            And if they start having more children than Israeli Jews the will be deported.
            Israel can't stand the idea of "goyim" being the majority.

  • Wesley69

    Israel has the right of self-defense. Hezbollah, a creature of Iran, Syria – all three are dedicated to Israel's destruction. With Hezbollah’s increases in armament and Iran developing its nuclear capacities, time is getting short for Israel. Add in some possible trouble in the West Bank and these enemies will begin another round of war. Lebanon will be the battlefield as before. This time Israel needs to wipe out Hezbollah and march to Damascus. Israel should warn Iran against any aggressive actions or it will use its nukes. This confect is coming. There is no defusing it. The question for the US is what if Russia threatens to get involved like in 1973? Then we had Nixon. Obama is no Nixon.