Obama’s Teachable Mosque Moment


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Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Victor Davis Hanson, a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and the author, most recently, of The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern.

FP: Victor Davis Hanson, welcome to Frontpage Interview.

I would like to talk to you today about the proposed mega-mosque next to Ground Zero and how Obama is handling it.

First, what do you make of the controversy surrounding the mosque in general?

Hanson: Thanks Jamie.

Almost everything about the controversy is disingenuous. Mr Rauf, the Kuwaiti born, Western educated physicist, and self-described Sufi cleric, heretofore has had a successful career contextualizing everything from gender apartheid in the Middle East to Sharia law and jihad, in the sense that the onus is always on Westerners not to take radical Islamists at their word or to believe what they see and hear in the Middle East.

The problem is that Mr. Rauf is more apt to fault Western perceptions of Islam when he resides in the U.S., but not so eager to discuss Islamic extremism when he visits his familiar turf in the gulf. He knows well that candid criticism of America earns accolades among the cultural elite here while candid criticism of radical Islam in the Middle East can earn something not so nice. By the way, that is called a sort of heroic “bridge-building.”

Take even the silly evocation of Cordoba: in toto it was not really a utopian medieval city of understanding, much less was it a city of tolerance during the Inquisition as the president alleged in Cairo (dates a little off, Mr. President). Mr. Rauf, the supposed Sufi version of Deepek Chopra, knew that, but he knew well also it was a rally cry of radical Islam to recapture al-Andalus. How wonderful—Cordoba sends a tingle up the legs of both Western liberals and radical Islamists, and for the opposite reasons!

If Mr. Rauf were intellectually honest and concerned with Islamic-Christian relations of the sort that surround 9/11, he would come up with something like the ‘Riyadh initiative’ where the problem is real and the stakes are high. But then in Saudi Arabia, he would have to drop the Sufi holy man character, and revert back to his other persona of contextualizing bin Laden and blaming the U.S. for, well, being the U.S.

One also does not build bridges by plopping down an Islamic center two blocks from ground zero, or raising the money from the autocratic Gulf sheikdoms. Mr Saif, again, knows all that—and that’s why he threw his cherry bomb and then sped abroad with chaos in his wake—on a state-department mission, no less, to bridge build (all this is the stuff of a Tom Wolfe novel).

Maybe the Spanish could allow a mosque to be constructed at the train-station site of the Madrid bombing, or perhaps we could ask the Indonesians to put some minarets on something at the Bali sites, or the Saudis might build an Islamic center at Khobar Towers. I’m sure the Muslim community of Lebanon could build a Cordoba House near the Marine barracks site. The strange thing about all this is that Muslims abroad probably think their counterparts in the U.S. are a little crazy to do such a provocative thing.

Finally, note now what we are not talking about: everything from France banning the burqa and Germany shutting down mosques, and Russians leveling Grozny and Chinese at war with Islam and the occasional Islamic hunt-down in India, to the insane asymmetry of the way Christians are treated in most of the Middle East. Plopping down a 100-million dollar, 13-story, “Constantinople House”, say, in Cairo, near a site of radical Christian-inspired violence by self-described Christian zealots  against Egyptians—funded from abroad by Christian evangelical groups—for the purpose of Christian contemplation and interfaith outreach would be of course beyond fiction.

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  • Kim Bruce

    Never mind Cairo Egypt…I want a Christian bridge-building house called Constantinople built right in Mecca, Saudi Arabia only two blocks from the Ka'aba.

    • Tanstaafl

      Excellent point. How about a synagogue in Medina as well? Before Mohammed showed up, Jews made up 2/3 of Medina's population. What about a right of return?

    • Rich P.

      During Desert Storm, while the U.S. military was saving Saudi Arabia from a quick takeover invasion by Saddam Hussein's tanks, our soldier's were not allowed to publicly carry the Bible. No symbols of Christmas were allowed outside of their tents.

      Our USO was not allowed to bring female performers to entertain or give moral support to our troops. Basically, the U.S. became the symbolic warrior-slaves of the oil-drenched sheiks. Similar to the way they need to import servant-slaves from Bangladesh or the Phillipines. Or import American oil drillers and skyscraper-erecting American engineers and architects.

      They fed our homeland's addiction to retail shopping with access to the oil 3,000 feet below their sand dunes; we bowed down and wore their chains. Now we self-divide over whether we should allow those slave-dependent Arab nations to erect a symbolic prayer-palace and Mt. Rushmore for Mohammed. Not in America – but at the very spot that Islamic terrorists declared war against us.

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  • From afar

    I am following this debate from Greece. Do you know that there was a church, only one, that was actually destroyed on 9/11, along with the towers? It was a Greek orthodox church, a christian church.Do you also know that the Port Authority is refusing permission for this church to be rebuilt? Why is no one making the bizarre connection between the refusal to rebuild a Christian church and the permission to build a mosque?

    • traeh

      A number of news stories and commentaries have made the connection. For example, at Jihad Watch. Another detail: one reason, apparently, the church is not being rebuilt is that Port Authority wanted it to be less tall than planned, because as planned, it would be taller than the Memorial. But the GZM is going to be taller than the Memorial, and no one has a problem with that.

    • aspacia

      True enough; The Church of St. Nicolas (sp) The denial is more than a little perplexing.

  • Beverley

    I am gobsmacked how little insight the 'liberals' in America have. They seem to be so spiritualy dead that God would have to drop a rock on their heads to get their attention.

    "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be ACCURSED." Gal.1v6. Where does 'Islam' come from?

    • Tanstaafl

      Mohammed's sociopathic brain. He stole a good bit from Christianity and Judaism, but then he was hardly an original thinker. Imagine a 6th century version of Mein Kampf.

      • aspacia

        True enough, however he did add paganism to much of the Qu'ran.

        • Beverley

          I know he took out of the Bible what suited him, Christianity and Judaism and basically plagiarized everything and added other things. What I was trying to say is that his ideas must have come from a very dark accursed angel.

          Correct me if I am wrong but was he not also married to a Jewish lady or two?

          • David Tsal

            Yes, his last wife Sahiya was Jewish. Mohammed invaded the Khaybar oasis, massacred all the Jews, including her father and husband, and took her captive. When she was free from her menses, he "married" her.

            In a civilized place, such "marriage" is called rape.

  • Barry O'Toole

    "liberals" in America just hate their country too much and cheer either openly or in their hearts for any enemy of America.

    • aspacia

      I am a Patriot and a Deist who is openly arguing against Sharia Law and most other religious edict being imposed on my free secular society.

  • old white guy

    americans are losing their republic and no one is capable of reversing this. the average american has been dumbed down to the point where they totally lack critical analysis skills. they will not fight in any way to preserve their freedom. they are lost.

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  • Carolyn

    D'ya suppose we could insist that if they build the mosque at GZ that they must allow Christians and Jews to each have a large space in the building for worship!? After all, it is supposed to be a community center, isn't it?

    • David Tsal

      And then, a harassment here, a beating there, a threat of murder. No perpetrators ever found, or if found, never brought to justice. A few more bits of this, and only Muslims are left.

      Everyone knows how it works.

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  • traeh

    Hanson says:

    Plopping down a 100-million dollar, 13-story, “Constantinople House”, say, in Cairo, near a site of radical Christian-inspired violence by self-described Christian zealots against Egyptians—funded from abroad by Christian evangelical groups—for the purpose of Christian contemplation and interfaith outreach would be of course beyond fiction.

    That analogy makes brilliantly clear that Cordoba House is Islamic revanchism, masked as multiculturalism. To put an Islamic revanchist project next to the site of WTC jihadist violence is about as arrogant as possible. It would be like Christian revanchists putting a "Constantinople House" near a site of Christian-inspired violence. One rarely, if ever, hears Christian priests talking up the possibility of recovering Istanbul and making it Constantinople again. One does often find imams talking up the return of Al-Andalus, centered in Cordoba, Spain.

  • MKS

    Many who hold the principles of Islam oppose the "Ground Zero" complex and mosque because its construction would put what they consider a place of worship in close proximity to swimming pools. And it would be far from the homes of most worshippers.

    One may have a constitutional "right" to purchase an acre of land next to the Martin Luther King Center and erect a 50 feet tall pole with the Confederate stars and bars flag. But it would be a bad thing to do.

    • Jim C.

      Flying the Confederate flag is at least a definable act of treason; though many decent Southerners have a warm place in their heart for the symbol as a point of pride, ultimately the flag glorifies slave ownership and rebellion against the United States. Building a religious community center (not a "mosque") near (not "at") Ground Zero is nothing of the sort– except to feeble, bigoted, extremely easily-led brains.

  • Tom P.

    Some of our fears, as he points out, is, "Israel strikes, the world is aghast and furious." But this view, even with plenty of evidence, may be self-created through our own paranoia. We see demons everywhere, and have proof to support the visions. But I think that in today's world, the U.S. is mostly acting on "mirror imaging," – we assume the other nations see the world as we do.

    It may well be the opposite today. 95% of the growing populations in the world are from underdeveloped countries. Literacy is in those countries is a hazard to those governments. I doubt if the average person in most of those countries could spell "Iran" or find it on a map, if they had access to one. What those populations are "aghast and furious" at is their own survival risks: poverty, disease, hunger, thirst, floods, basic electricity, fires, and Islamic terrorists. Their world is driven by "fear," and even if they were able to make a rational and independent decision, they would support the massive, 40-nation, Arab block out of this fear. What they care most about is cheap energy, weapons, money, and protection rackets to keep their illegitimate leaders in power and splendor.

    When Russia invaded Georgia, the world was not aghast and furious. When China supports Islamic, resource-controlling and slavery-supporting nations in Africa, they ignore it. When Iran makes military arms deals with expansionist nations in S. America, the nations down there are humbled, not aghast. Our greatest fear is simple paranoia resulting from staring in the mirror too long. Bush and Cheney were not fooled; Obama is helping fool America.

  • Mohammad Atta

    I heard a rumor that someone was going to mix a large quantity of PIG BLOOD in the concrete cement mix for this proposed Mosque. Think they will want to pray there if this were to happen? Also, just how intense was the search for human body parts on the roof of this building seeing as the LANDING GEAR crashed through the roof?

  • jes

    Here are some thoughts the fork-tongued Rauf revealed on a 2004 visit to Australia "…. Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance, said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an “America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world."

    Well Obama gave his "America Culpa" speech on his world-apology-tour and now Rauf and his equally vile wife think the time is right to build a victory mosque at Ground Zero.

    The rest of the 2004 article is <a href="http://newsstore.theage.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac;jsessionid=55EA109C6805ADBCF57B9A024BA3282A?page=1&sy=age&kw=feisal+abdul+rauf&pb=all_ffx&dt=selectRange&dr=10years&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=10&rm=200&sp=nrm&clsPage=1&docID=SHD040321893354CGGJE">here. In it he says:
    " THE US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end, says an Islamic cleric invited to Sydney by Premier Bob Carr.
    New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf , who impressed Mr Carr at an international conference last year, arrives in Sydney today for two weeks of meetings and public talks.
    Speaking from his New York mosque, Imam Feisal said the West had to understand the terrorists' point of view.
    In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

    “The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

    Imam Feisal said the bombing in Madrid had made his message more urgent. He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world.

    Imam Feisal, who argues for a Western style of Islam that promotes democracy and tolerance, said there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an “America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world. "

    He justifies the Islamic terrorist attacks on Bali and Madrid <a href="http://newsstore.theage.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac;jsessionid=55EA109C6805ADBCF57B9A024BA3282A?page=1&sy=age&kw=feisal+abdul+rauf&pb=all_ffx&dt=selectRange&dr=10years&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=10&rm=200&sp=nrm&clsPage=1&docID=SMH040322FDUNK2SDDFE">here: "…..first day of a visit to Australia by a Muslim cleric in the US, the New York-based president of the American Sufi Muslim Association, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

    Imam Rauf said he believed terrorists acted out of a sense of injustice and oppression and to alleviate these frustrations was a mammoth task.

    Referring to the Bali and Madrid bombings, he said: “I regard this militancy as a frustration of legitimate hurts.

    “There are a large number of people who are underemployed or unemployed. They see vast differences of wealth, and that feeds a desire for a correction. When they are not able to participate in the wealth of a nation, this general frustration can evolve into mutiny."

    In another article (Dec. 2009) "The Obama Administration secretly sent staff to Melbourne this week [Dec. 2009] to ask religious leaders about winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world…". Rauf and Tariq Ramadan both attended the Parliament of the World's Religions conference in Australia in Dec. 2009 – full article <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/national/obama-team-seeks-enlightenment-on-muslim-relations-20091209-kk24.html">here . Why the secrecy for a religious conference??

  • Jim Johnson

    I think we should consider the words of Noam Chomsky who contends that we should not be tolerant of intolerance. The Hamas Mosque being proposed for construction near the 911 Islamic hate attack is, it's self, a perfect manifestation of intolerance. Would Noam not consider killing Homosexuals intolerant? Would Noam consider the subjection of women intolerant? Would Noam consider killing of non believers for not converting to Islam intolerant?
    Would Noam consider establishment of a state religion intolerant? Would Noam consider the execution of a Muslim who announces in the hypothetical Cordova Mosque that he no longer believes in any of the above which are mandates of Islam intolerant? Would Noam consider the execution of an atheist who refused to surrender to the will of Allah intolerant?
    I wait for Noam to tell us his judgement on the intolerance or not of these commandments of Islam.
    Also if possible a second opinion from Lady Gaga.

  • bubba4

    Yeah boy…he really "waded in" to the discussion. He had no sooner gotten out the constitutional defense of religion out of his mouth before FPM had him proposing the mosque, saying the US is a Muslim Nation and a host of other dishonest "opinions" about "what he meant" by saying they have a right to build it on private property.

    Face it, you guys have given up on reasonable morals and scrupples…you will simply say whatever it takes.

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  • Jim C.

    Anyone enjoying the irony that Alwaleed bin Talal, one of the Cordoba House investors, is also Fox News's biggest stakeholder next to Rupert Murdoch? While Murdoch riles up the rubes, he rakes in the profits–which then get sent to the Prophet.

    Boycott Fox News–derail funding for the Cordoba House "mosque."

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      I agree. Glen Beck needs to use some of that uber cash of his and open up shop somewhere other than Fox.

      I don't think enough people know about this. Glen does.

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