Finkelstein’s Slander Against Israel

Joseph Klein is a Harvard-trained lawyer and the author of Global Deception: The UN’s Stealth Assault on America’s Freedom and Lethal Engagement: Barack Hussein Obama, the United Nations & Radical Islam.


Norman Finkelstein, the professional Israel-basher, appeared before the United Nations Correspondents Association in New York on April 7th to hawk his newest diatribe against Israel entitled ‘This Time We Went Too Far.’ Finkelstein claimed in his book that he was providing “an accurate record” of the “suffering” that the Gazan population “endured” as a result of the “merciless Israeli assault.”  He urged the UN correspondents to publicize his message about what he called the “bloodletting in Gaza.”

Finkelstein was referring to Operation Cast Lead, which Israel launched in December 2008 to put a stop to the incessant rocket attacks launched from Gaza by Palestinian terrorists against civilians living in Southern Israel.

In his remarks to the UN correspondents, Finkelstein said that it was inaccurate to characterize what happened in Gaza as a war.  He described it as a “massacre” deliberately designed by the Israeli government and military to terrorize the people of Gaza with “disproportionate force.”  The real reason for Israel’s invasion, Finkelstein asserted, was to teach Arabs a lesson after Israel’s “defeat” in Lebanon in 2006.

To support his thesis that Israel used unreasonably disproportionate force against a defenseless civilian population and engaged in a “massacre” rather than a war, Finkelstein cited testimony from unnamed Israeli soldiers who were quoted as saying that they did not engage any combatants on the Hamas side.  He also referred, as an example of Israel’s true intentions, to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, who said at the time that “Israel demonstrated real hooliganism during the course of the recent operation, which I demanded.”

Often associated with rowdiness at soccer games, “hooliganism” is a slang word that in the worst dictionary definition of the term refers to willful wanton and malicious destruction of the property of others.  Let us suppose for the moment that this is what Livni actually meant and that “willful wanton and malicious destruction of Palestinian property” in Gaza reflected Israel’s true intentions.  Is Israel expected to stand by and let Hamas and its other terrorist allies shoot rockets into Israeli civilian centers all day and night long, day after day – following repeated Israeli warnings to stop or face the consequences – without finally inflicting real damage to Hamas’ infrastructure in return?  The use of disproportionate force to inflict damage against the enemy’s infrastructure was the only means available to stop Hamas’ campaign of aggressive violence against Israeli civilians.

If destroying the enemy’s infrastructure were considered a “war crime” or a “crime against humanity,” then Abraham Lincoln deserves to be branded a war criminal for endorsing the strategy of his general Ulysses S. Grant who took command of the Union Army with the goal of seeking “the utter destruction of the Confederacy’s capacity to wage war.”  Grant ordered his subordinates, “To strike against [the enemy] and break it up, get into the interior of the enemy’s country as far as you can, inflicting all the damage you can upon their war resources.”

Cruel, yes, but the strategy put an end to the four year Civil War.

I understand that this is a crude comparison, but Israel was at war with terrorists determined to destroy the Jewish state and who refused to heed Israel’s many warnings to stop the rocket attacks meant to kill and terrorize innocent Israeli civilians.  On the other hand, Finkelstein does not believe there was any war in Gaza at all to bring to an end, which would possibly justify what Israel did.  But he completely ducked my question concerning the Hamas Covenant’s threat of annihilation of Israel, backed by Hamas’ terrorism campaign.  Didn’t Israel have a legitimate existential fear for its survival, I asked him?  His response indicated the twisted nature of this Hamas apologist’s way of thinking.

First, Finkelstein said that my question was made up of “99% fantasy,” even though I was quoting from the Hamas Covenant:

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).”

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

I also quoted Al-Zahar, the overall leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip who said:

“I hope that our dream of having an independent state on the entire territory of historical Palestine will be realized one day.” This dream, he added, “will become real one day. I’m certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land.”

After refusing to directly respond to my question, Finkelstein said that even if this threat to Israel’s existence were real (which he continued to deny was the case) it would not justify Israel’s actions.  This regular mocker of his fellow Jews’ Holocaust suffering (which had included his own Holocaust survivor parents) gave an incredible response to a question from another UN correspondent, who had asked him to compare the Nazi horrors with Israel’s alleged war crimes.  Finkelstein said that he saw little difference between Jewish children being murdered in gas chambers by the Nazis and Palestinian children being burnt by white phosphorous in Gaza.

The loss of any innocent child’s life – whether Palestinian or Israeli – is tragic. Perhaps Israel could have done more to avoid some deaths and serious injuries in Gaza, even though the former commander of British forces in Afghanistan observed that in its offensive against Hamas in Gaza the Israeli army “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.”  But even assuming the accuracy of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights’ worst case figure of 313 children killed among the 1414 Palestinians who died over a 23-day period (which defined a child as anyone under the age of 18), does that really compare with the more than 1.2 million Jewish children deliberately exterminated by the Nazis during the Holocaust?

By 1945, the Germans and their collaborators killed nearly two out of every three European Jews.  In the Gaza Strip, the Arab population grew from 82,500 to 1,428, 757     between 1948 and 2006.  There were no Jews at all living in Gaza in 2006.  The Palestinians were handed a golden opportunity to govern themselves and create the foundation for an independent state.  After Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, there was no blockade of the borders. Only after Hamas came to power, bringing with it the real potential to make good on its threat to annihilate Israel, did Israel take more defensive precautions that included a blockade.   Finkelstein never mentioned that Hamas smuggled arms into Gaza, crossed the Israeli border to kidnap an Israeli soldier who is still languishing in Hamas’ hands if he is alive at all, and launched thousands of rockets targeted to hit schools and other Israeli civilian centers.

After Finkelstein got through excoriating Israel for what he called a “terrorist attack on a civilian population” and denying that Israel was engaged in a real bona fide war with a terrorist enemy sworn to Israel’s destruction, he went on to defend the findings of the Goldstone Report that had been commissioned by the anti-Israel United Nations Human Rights Council.  He called the report’s findings incontrovertible and its conclusion that Israel “might” have committed crimes against humanity the most “cautious” of all human rights reports.  Finkelstein claimed that the only reason Israel and its supporters were trying to debunk the report was because they were particularly upset about the credentials of the prime author, Judge Richard Goldstone of South Africa – a Jew and a self-described committed Zionist as well as a distinguished international jurist.

First of all, Finkelstein conveniently left out of his praise of the Goldstone Report the part about Hamas’ own violations of international human rights law. Second, he neglected to mention the biased composition of the panel serving with Judge Goldstone that conducted its fact-finding mission in Gaza at the UN Human Rights Council’s behest.

The fact-finding mission had pledged to impartially assess “all violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law that might have been committed” in the Israel-Gaza conflict. International law requires such impartiality – an ingredient missing in virtually every UN-sponsored investigation of Israel and sadly missing in this case.

For example, prior to seeing any evidence a panel member, Professor Christine Chinkin, had publicly declared that one of the parties—Israel—was guilty.  She remained on the panel even after this obvious bias was pointed out.  Another biased member of the four person panel, Ms. Hina Jilani, was quoted as stating in 2005: “Israel is depriving Palestinians of their basic human rights using security as an excuse.”  A third member of the panel, Irish Colonel Desmond Travers, showed his anti-Israel bias and motivation to find Israel guilty irrespective of the facts when in an  interview he accused Israeli soldiers of having killed Irish soldiers in Lebanon with “a significant number who were taken out deliberately and shot (in southern Lebanon.).” There was no credible evidence presented for that allegation either.

Poor Judge Goldstone, even assuming he brought to his task the most honorable of intentions, was outnumbered 3-1.

How was the majority’s bias reflected in the Goldstone mission’s fact-finding?  It simply ignored inconvenient evidence that contradicted the majority opinion that Israel was guilty as charged.  For example, Israel produced photographic evidence that Gaza mosques were used to store rockets and other weapons.  That could not be, said Desmond Travers.  “I don’t believe the photographs… Those charges reflect Western perceptions in some quarters that Islam is a violent religion.”

Finally, the Goldstone Report applied an outdated notion of international law that, in its interpretation, requires a democracy to sit back and wait for its citizens to be murdered in droves by armed terrorists before responding with overwhelming military force to prevent more attacks.  Israel has the right to defend its innocent civilian citizens from attack by whatever means it deems necessary after fair warning and less forceful measures were tried without success.

Norman Finkelstein said that he is working with Arab nations and others to wrangle an invitation to address the United Nations General Assembly about Israel’s alleged “crimes” against the Palestinians.  Of course, his arrogant pitch for attention and 15 minutes of fame should be rejected out of hand.  But knowing the present composition of the General Assembly, he may well get that invitation.  If he does, the United States and its allies should insist on a rebuttal address by someone like Professor Alan Dershowitz who can cut this provocateur down to size.

  • BS1977

    Finkelstein is a psychopath…..he's had his fifteen minutes of fame…enough already for this lunatic.

    • Informer

      You are 100% correct! he is a jew that hate him being a jew! i call those KIKES!
      no knowledge of history no national dignity no nothing! Jews like him like Rahm,like Axelrod and the rest scums in current government are traitors and should go to hell!

      • trickyblain

        Should the 80 percent of Jews who voted for Obama go to Hell too? All of them self-hating? Or perhaps they have something you do not. A brain, for starters…

    • xman

      And the irony is that if Finkelstein fell into the hands of those he gives the greatest support to, five minutes wouldn't pass before he was put into an orange jumpsuit and had his head sawn off.

      • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

        100% true. He believes he's championing the cause of a downtrodden underdog, but all he's doing is posing alongside savages to illustrate some kind of relevance in his rants. 24 hours in the hearths and hearts of hamastinians, he'd be dead, or wish he was. He's yet another come-lately who actually thinks he can relate. He's a Jew, whether he's ashamed of it or not. He's speaking of a people, and government, virtually BRED to kill him for simply being a Jew. You can feed a tiger all you want, it's still going to kill you. I'm of a totally opposite view as Finkie, and I'd even last longer than he would amongst the hateful cavemen of palestine.

  • son of jesse

    Finkelstein is a Neo-Nazi and a Holocaust Denier. He was fired by DePaul because he has never published a single academic research publication anywhere.

    • William Smart

      Finkelstein is hated because he exposed the lies of Joan Peters and Alan Dershowitz. Now he's taken on the IDF – if the earlier two are anything to go by, this latest one will be a cracker.

      Most of all, Finkelstein is hated because he exposed the lies of the Holocaust Industry, which robbed the Germans and the Swiss. Not to provide for Holocaust survivors, many of whom were and still are left to die in penury, but to line the pockets of Zionists.

      There again, it might be his words in 2006 that really condemn him – "… in the 1940s you can disagree with Stalin and Stalinism and the Soviet Union on this and on that. And there were excellent reasons for disagreeing. But every victory of the Red Army over the Nazi invaders was a victory for liberty and a victory for freedom. And every victory of Hezbollah over the vandals and the marauders, the invaders and the murderers; every victory by Hezbollah over Israel is also a victory for liberty and a victory for freedom."

      • xman

        It must irk you because you were born 65 years too late to pour the Zyklon crystals into the showers at Auschwitz.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/cjk cjk

          He's still holding out hope and doing all he can for a second chance

        • Toma

          You really think that if you yourself had been born 60 years ago,considering your obvious political and personal leanings,you wouldnt have been a flaming Antisemite?There is a major correlation between Islamophobia and Antisemitism.The people who resisted were mostly democrats,marxists and leftists, not flaming right wing human rights hating thugs like you.

          • davarino

            Wow, you equate islamophobia and antisemitism. Your parents must have done a lot of acid back in the 60s, cause your an idiot. The nerons in your brain are all twisted up.

          • Toma

            Really?So its perfectly ok to be a genocidal xneophobic bastard when it comes to Muslims,but hey lets not stereotype Jews! http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/20

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/cjk cjk

            That's because Mohammedans worship a terrorist pedophile you stupid ass moron.

          • xman

            Had you been born 60 years earlier, you would have been pouring the Zyklon B crystals into the showers at Auschwitz and obviously enjoying it, just like the Jew-hating piece of shit that you are.

          • Toma

            How curious,a fascist cretin opposed to Antisemitism!

          • xman

            You're the fascist cretin who would love to see another six million Jews murdered in cold blood, just like your old uncle Adolf. It must irk you that Auschwitz was closed more than 65 years ago as the Russians advanced on your beloved Third Reich. Yep, you're nothing more than a subhuman Eichmann wannabe who has obviously been skimping on his meds.

  • rafi m

    Finkelstein a poor wretch, like all people frustrated and looking for a published, the easiest way is to attack Israel without mercy.
    Every day at least 50 people are killed by Islamic terrorists. So stop preaching to us, go and find your friends the murderers.

    • Toma

      Oh yes that is so easy and careerbuilding in the United States,attacking poor unloved and defenceless little Israel.Sniff.

      • aliko

        Actually it is quite profitable as both the Saudis with the Sunnis at large and the Iranians with the Shiite at large will finance you if they don't already.

        Hate speech against Israel and Jews is where the money is!

  • Ernst Roesch

    I agree with poster "BS1977" that Finkelstein is a psychopath.

  • edwin

    Norman is a pathetic slut dressed as a man.

  • Informer

    to kill him would be a blessing! no tears ,only Joy!
    I wish him to drop dead and ASAP

  • Timothy L. Pennell

    Why isn't this guy Obamas' JEW CZAR? Or, is he?

  • Ron Grant

    There are too many intelligent,moral, qualified and reputable Jews who are critical of Israel to believe them all anti Semites,sluts,poor wretch's or neo-Nazi psychopaths.The Finkelstein's , Goldstone's and Chomsky's of this world deserve to be heard and their opinions respected.The same for non Jews who may be critical of Israel.Critics of Israel or Israeli foreign policy have a right and a moral duty to point out violations of the human rights of Palestinians by the state.South Africa violated the rights of black South Africans and we criticized them.Rhodesia violated the rights of black Rhodesians and we criticized them.Israel violates the rights of the Palestinians and we criticize her.
    While we must never forget nor be allowed to forget the unimaginable sufferings of the Jews in the Holocaust,it is well to remember that the crime of the Nazis was above all a crime against Humanity.Palestinians ,like it or not ,are as much a part of humanity as are Jews,etc.And they can be victims,too, victims of Jews.
    I don't know if South Africans or Rhodesians thought of them selves as occupiers, colonizers nor victimizers.Most never questioned that role.They should have,as should the Zionists.Muchiboy.

    • ajnn

      I agree that Palestinian Arabs are full human beings with all the rights and responsibilities that includes.

      It is racist to excuse the Palestinian Arabs of their responsibility to not engage in terrorism, to not shoot missiles into civilian parts of Israel, to not teach jew-hatred to their children, to not teach that the best way to get to heaven is to kill a jew, etc.

      I think normal people can agree that Israel wants no part of Lebanon and Gaza. no part, no relations, and no contact. Regarding the West Bank, again, the security wall/barrier/fence indicates that israel wants out ofthe West Bank as well.

      The problem is the Palestinian arabs don't want to stop attacking Israel. If they stopped (or gave anyone good reason to think they would stop) the whole conflict would beended..

      • Toma

        West Bank, again, the security wall/barrier/fence indicates that israel wants out ofthe West Bank as well"
        That is a moronic thing to say considering the fact that the wall is not built on the 1967 green line,but goes right through the West Bank,taking about 12 Percent.Do you have anything more to say?

        • Toma

          I must pause and read again.Considering everything that has happened the past few months, especially between Obama and Netanyahu,this is actually the most dishonest,most moronic,most laughable post I have ever read on any site,anywhere.Are you actually saying the 400 000 illegal settlers in their illegal and criminal settelements are not wanted there?Why on earth is Israel building in East Jerusalem and the West Bank?What is natural growth about?You people are unbelievable!

          • Joseph Klein

            Explain to us why the surrounding Arab states torpedoed the original UN-sponsored two state solution in 1948 and why during the following 20 years while the West Bank and Gaza were in Arab hands the Palestinians were not provided the land to create their own independent state?

            While you are at it, if Israel is expected to pay compensation for the Palestinain refugees who left their homes in Israel, what about compensation for all the Jews from their homes in the Arab countries?

            Finally, you might want to try explaining why the Palestinians in Gaza wasted the opportunity handed to them by Israel's unilateral withdrawal with no blockade and the offer of trade and jobs?

          • Toma

            If somebody came to your country,decided to carve it up and give 55 Percent of it to 30 Percent of the population,which is what happened in 1947,would you take that with a smile?You live in the richest country in the world and you balk at the thought of letting in a few illegal immigrants! Stop this bullshit about Gaza,Gaza is not a state and the Isralis never gave it back.They only removed settlers and still controll the seaport,the air space and can bomb it whenever they want.Is that withdrawal for you?

          • To the ignorant

            The Jews did not take anybody's land it is Jews that has been massacred for thousand of years, their land had been taken from them and their temple destroyed. Jerusalem is a jewish city so was Bet-Lehem and Nazareth and the Jews have lived on their land for thousand of years in many of the places the Arabs now claim theirs.
            The arabs just destroy everything in their way that they cannot have and do not respect live or property or religion of others, Period!!!!!

          • Toma

            Honey,those Arabs,the people of Nazareth and Betlehem,are the descendants of the semitic Jews of Palestine.Judaism is a religion,it can change.People converted to Christianity and then to Islam.It happened all over the Middle East.

          • Ron Grant

            "The Jews did not take anybody's land.."

            Right.It wasn't just "anybody's land",it was Palestinian land.But you likely deny there are any Palestinians.The next best thing to genocide.Very clever,those Zionists.Muchiboy

          • Rob

            The name of the Palestine was JUDEA until Rome changed it in the 2nd century.

          • Joseph Klein

            I love the way you cite international law when it suits your purposes but then reject the international legal framework under which the Palestinians could have had their own state more than 60 years ago. I won't even begin to educate you about whose land this really was, going back thousands of years, except to note that there was no separate country of Palestine to begin with to which the Arabs had exclusive title. They rejected a peaceful solution, not Israel.

            Your cursing about Gaza does nothing to support your argument. The fact is that Israel withdrew completely from Gaza without receiving a single concession in return and, as usual, the Palestinians blew the opportunity to improve their situation. Israel offered jobs and trade but it cannot be expected to tolerate a terrorist organization sworn to destroying the Jewish state operating on its border that sends rockets night and day to kill and intimidate its citizens.

          • Toma

            I dont reject the international framework at all.Quite to the contrary.I am all for resolution 242.Get out of The West Bank,stop the occupation of Gaza and get your settlements out of East Jerusalem.That would be peace, but till now Israel hasnt offered it.In fact they spat in Joe Bidens face and continued building.

          • Joseph Klein

            I love the way you cite international law when it suits your purposes but then reject the international legal framework under which the Palestinians could have had their own state more than 60 years ago. I won't even begin to educate you about whose land this really was, going back thousands of years, except to note that there was no separate country of Palestine to begin with to which the Arabs had exclusive title. They rejected a peaceful solution, not Israel.

            Your cursing about Gaza does nothing to support your argument. The fact is that Israel withdrew completely from Gaza without receiving a single concession in return and, as usual, the Palestinians blew the opportunity to improve their situation. Israel offered jobs and trade but it cannot be expected to tolerate a terrorist organization sworn to destroying the Jewish state operating on its border that sends rockets night and day to kill and intimidate its citizens.

          • Toma

            I dont cite international law when it suits my purpose,I cite international law because it is on the side of the Palestinian people.I would be stupid not to do that.I am not interested in what happened 60 years, for the reason that it is not the fault of the Palestinians who suffer today and for the reason that Israel has already benefited from this mistake by increasing its territory to 80 percent of historic Palestine,which is today Israels legal territory.There you go,I cite international law in Israels favor.There was no country called Palestine?Oh my,was there always a country called Germany,or Italy or the United States of America or the Republic of Congo?No?Well they exist today.Countries and nations are constructs.That goes for the Palestinians as well as for the Israelis.The indigenous Population of Palestine today refer to themselves as Palestinians,yesterday they called themselves Hebrews or Cannanites or Roman citizens,or monophysite Christians.Whatever changed in history.

        • To the ignorant

          The West Bank is not an occupied territory!!!!!
          It belongs to the state of Israel according to the Brits that had offered the two state solution to the area they called Palestine during their mandate over the area that included Jordan, Israel and the "West Bank".
          The two state solution already exist!!!!!!!!
          Jordanian which is mostly palestinian and Israel which is the homeland f the Jewish people.
          Jordan was created by the Brits in exchange for oil rights and Israel lost the West Bank and East Jerusalem to Jordan during the Independent war in 1947-48.
          You have bought into the Arab propaganda and do not know what you are taking about!!!!!!!!
          The wall was build to stop the murderess suicide bumpers from killing innocent people!!!!!
          Wake up stupid.

          • Toma

            Well tell that to the International Court of Justice,the highest judicial body in the world,which ruled in 2004 that the West Bank,Gaza and East Jerusalem are occupied Palestinian territory.

          • Toma

            Oh yes and it also ruled that the Wall is illegal.

          • Jacob

            Toma, I don't give a rat's ass what the International Court of Justice says. The International Court of Justice has a longstanding rule that permanently prevents any Israeli justices from ever sitting on its bench. Now tell me: why should anyone who supports Israel be ok with that biased rule, when there are much graver violators of human rights in the world that could be banned instead (for example, Sudan — with its disgusting, governmentally sanctioned genocide against the black Christians of that nation)? I mean, it's clear from your posts that you're not a supporter of Israel, and that's fine. But I can't begin to imagine what kind of reality you must live in if you think that people who support Israel would care at all what the ICJ says when Israeli justices cannot sit on that court? As Professor Alan Dershowitz has noted, for Israel to accept the dictates of the ICJ would be like a pre-Civil Rights era black person from the south accepting as the correct statement of American Constitutional law the verdict of an all-white jury.

          • Toma

            Go on whining like a pathetic loser.International law and justice are not your side and with this Israel can not persist in its aggression against the Palestinians and will lose eventually.If the International Court of Justice had ruled in favor of Israel you would have gobbled it up.Comparing it to a pre civil war court is just very,well,lets say amusing.I dont believe your story about Israelis not being allowed on the Bench.Dershowitz is a joke and not a source for anything other then some really good belly laughs.

          • Toma

            Well, I dont know what your problem is.Didnt the court declare Al Bashir a war criminal and therefore liable to prosecution?What are you whining about?

          • Toma

            Well,if Israel doesnt care we will make her care.We will drag her politicans to court and haunt them till they finally face justice.Israel is a pariah state anyway.

          • Jacob

            Israel is not a "pariah" state; it's a member state of the United Nations. And while were quoting Benny Morris, look at what he has to say about your 'apartheid' canard:

            "Israel is not an apartheid state — rather the opposite, it is easily the most democratic and politically egalitarian state in the Middle East, in which Arab Israelis enjoy far more freedom, better social services, etc. than in all the Arab states surrounding it. Indeed, Arab representatives in the Knesset, who continuously call for dismantling the Jewish state, support the Hezbollah, etc., enjoy more freedom than many Western democracies give their internal oppositions. (The U.S. would prosecute and jail Congressmen calling for the overthrow of the U.S. Govt. or the demise of the U.S.)."

            And Professor Dershowitz is not a "joke". When you graduate first in your class at Yale Law School, become editor-in-chief of the Yale Law Journal, clerk for a Supreme Court justice, and attain a full professorship at Harvard Law School at age 28 or younger — then you can talk to me about how Dershowitz is a joke. Until then, shut it.

          • Toma

            I know what Benny Morris has become,he thinks Israel should attack Iran and that the ethnic cleansing of 48 didnt go far enough.He has become a rightwing satire.But nobody said internally Israel is an Apartheid State, but the system it implements in the occupied territories is.As for Dershowitz,its true he is an accomplished man,but anyone who writes a book such as The Case for Israel, lets Natalie Portman do the research and then get caught plagiarizing a hoax,From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters,is sorry to say, a joke.He calls himself a civil rights lawyer and yet he thinks of legal ways to justify torture.Noone takes him serious.He is just a Lawyer earning his cash

          • Toma

            The point Morris makes about overthrowing the state is ridiculous.No Arab citizen wants to overthrow the state,they just want to democratize it,to make it more just for its Arab citizens, the same way blacks didnt want to overthrow America but reform it from a country for whites to a country for all its citizens.I am sorry for Benny "The Nutcase" Morris that he doesnt know the difference

          • Jacob

            Finkelstein's plagiarism charge has been conclusively refuted by a Harvard University investigation conducted by then-President Derek Bok. Other scholars such as James Freedman, Harry S. Martin, and Charles Fried have also rejected Finkelstein's plagiarism accusation.

          • Jacob

            Finkelstein is an attack dog who goes after any and every academic who dares to write a book that is perceived as being even remotely pro-Israel, an unpardonable sin in Finkelstein's distorted Marxist view of morality. He attacked eminent historian Michael Oren's book "Six Days of War" as "an apologetic narrative which basically reiterates the official Zionist account of the June [1967] war." No one else condemned Oren's book — not even any of the historians who reviewed it, and there were many. In fact, all the historians who reviewed it heaped immense praise on it. Finkelstein dismissed Dennis Ross' book "The Missing Peace" a "misleading account". No one else found it to problematic like Finkelstein did. Finkelstein hysterically and melodramatically asserted that Ambassador Martin Indyk's recent book "Innocent Abroad" "systematically misrepresents the record of the peace process. [Martin Indyk is] lying not only to his readers, but to the American people."

          • Jacob

            He insists that he's a "forensic scholar", yet he only critically assesses books that are perceived as having a scintilla of evidence that might portray Israel in a favorable light. That's not scholarship, it's propaganda.

          • Jacob

            If, as you concede, Israel does not internally have a system of apartheid, that means (at best) it's reckless to use the term apartheid to describe the situation in the occupied territories (admittedly not an acceptable policy on the part of the Israeli government, but not the same thing as South African apartheid, by any stretch of the imagination). In fact, I think I'm going to write a book called "The Apartheid Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of South African Suffering" to denounce the way the memory of the victims of South African apartheid is being sullied and expoited when the term is falsely invoked as analagous to the situation in Israel/Palestine. By the way, where does Benny Morris say what you attributed to him? In one of his books? I didn't see that.

          • Jacob

            As for torture, I certainly don't agree with Dershowitz's specific proposal of putting needles under the nails of terrorists, but if a "ticking time bomb scenario" were to come about, and if thousands of people could be saved by torturing one terrorist who planted a bomb in Times Square (for example), then they should find the most "humane" (if you like) way to do that. As renowned legal scholar Richard Posner said about this issue, "[N]o one, who doubts that this is the case, should be in a position of responsibility." Do you disagree with that?

          • Toma

            I reject torture all the time,anytime and anywhere.The ticking time bomb scenario is just a cheap trick to open the gates for unsavory practices.Its a cheap trick because such a scenario is fiction.It has never occured.

          • Toma

            Why?Dont you agree that internally Israel is a democracy but is a vicious human rights abuser in the occupied territories?What do you call a state that has human rights for Jews and no rights for Arabs,that has Jews only settlements and Jews only roads,that is turning the land of another people into Bantustans,that steals water and herds people into checkpoints and penal colonies,that practices collective punishments,that seeks to seperate a different people through walls and barbed wire as if they are vermin?If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck.The quote by the way is from Righteous Victims.

          • Toma

            Is the murder of 1400 people in Gaza appealing to you?Do you think that is not deserving of Apartheid?

          • Toma

            "as long as between the Jordan and the sea there is only one political entity, named Israel, it will end up being either non-Jewish or non-democratic … If the Palestinians vote in elections, it is a bi-national state, and if they don't, it is an apartheid state."
            Ehud Barak

          • Toma

            "If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights [also for the Palestinians in the territories], then, as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished."
            Ehud Olmert

          • Ron Grant

            Israel has gone one diabolical step further then the Boer in separating the Arabs and Jews of Palestine.Again,very clever,those Zionists Jews.While Apartheid in South Africa more or less confined Africans to Bantustans or Homelands (except when it was convenient not to do so) enforced as it was by the pass laws,there was no attempt to create physical borders nor walls resulting in de facto ethnic cleansing as the Israelis did.Out of sight,out of mind.Really,a sin more evil then Apartheid.Same for the Rhodesians and their Tribal Trust Lands.The Africans and Europeans had effectively their own areas but within a national border.The Afrikaans of South Africa and the Europeans of Rhodesia didn't have the heart (or heartlessness) to do what the Jews have done in Israel,ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from their own land.If you cleanse the Palestinians from their borders of birthright,they don't count.You've just gone one step beyond the evil of Apartheid.Apartheid is abhorrent.Ethnic cleansing is evil.Even the Holocaust as evil as it was doesn't justify the evil of ethnic cleansing. Muchiboy.

          • Toma

            You are exactly right,he demolishes Books which twist facts and falsify the historical record in order to protray Israel in a good light.But he is not the only one doing that.Israels new historians have been doing it for a long time.Avi Shlaim,Benny Morris,Baruch Kimmerling,Tom Segev

          • Joseph Klein

            You are confusing the International Criminal Court with the International Court of Justice. And are you seriously making fun of Harvard Law Professor Dershowitz while revering ex-De Paul University faculty member Finkelstein?

          • Joseph Klein

            You are parroting Finkelstein who used the same exact expression to describe the International Court of Justice. Just to educate you, the ICJ has limited jurisdiction to decide disputes between states. While it can issue advisory opinions, if requested to do so by the General Assembly for example, "the Court's advisory opinions have no binding effect" to quote the ICJ's own website. So their "advisory opinion" is worth about as much as the resolutions coming out of the Israel-hating Human Rights Council.

            And if Gaza were truly "occupied territory" you can be assured there would be no Hamas terrorists governing the territory as they still are today.

          • Toma

            And if Gaza were truly "occupied territory" you can be assured there would be no Hamas terrorists governing the territory as they still are today.

            Its funny you say that,didnt Israel try to destroy the goverment and infrastructure and imprison or kill its politicians?What do you call that?Bingo!Occupation.

          • Toma

            Dont wiggle around it like a worm.There are other ways of enforcing these rulings,as through the United Nations General Assembly.The fact is the court ruled the occupation illegal and only propagandists try to be disingenuous about it.

          • Joseph Klein

            Read the UN Charter. The General Assembly does not have any enforcement powers of its own. The only United Nations body with enforcement powers is the Security Council, where fortunately the U.S. has the power to veto foolish resolutions.

          • Toma

            Well yes,but these decision have considerable political weight and can be passed on to the Security Council where as you say the United States vetoes every Resolution asking for a just peace in Palestine.

      • Muchiboy

        “It is racist to excuse the Palestinian Arabs..”

        The point is that you are excusing the many Jews and most Zionists who refuse to acknowledge their sins against the Palestinians.You refuse to acknowledge occupation,colonization, oppression and a myriad of human rights crimes and violations against a vulnerable people that include arguable ethnic and cultural genocide and de facto ethnic cleansing.You threw the first stone! Muchiboy

        • aliko

          Sins against the Arabs?

          As the Arabs themselves see it, Jews breathing is a cause enough for upset so I guess that's why they tried to help the Nazis with their extermination efforts.

          48' and 67' wars were genocide attempt by their own admit so I guess we sinned by not cooperating with their plans.
          The 600,000 Jews defending themselves in 48' against 7 Arab armies should have tied one hand behind their back to make it fair. Shame on them.

          Just in case you worry, we have many more "sins" in the drawer for you to hate for the rest of your miserable life.

          • Toma

            "As the Arabs themselves see it, Jews breathing is a cause enough for upset so I guess that's why they tried to help the Nazis with their extermination efforts."

            Holocaust=inspired by Christian Antisemitism,thought up by Christians,supported and done by Christians, but the Arabs are guilty?You are people are so unbelievably racist.

          • Rob

            Ever hear of the mufti of jerusalem? Look his NAZI alliances up.

    • Sashland

      Their "opinions respected" while they tell lies?

  • Jacob

    I think the thing that makes Finkelstein such an effective antisemite is, ironically, the fact that he is himself an antisemitic stereotype. Whether it's his shrill, whiny, hyperbolic voice, or the fact that he sees nothing positive not only about Israel — but about broader Jewish culture as well ("I don't know much about Judaism, but [Israel] Shahak [the late Hebrew University professor of chemistry who wrote one of the most antisemitic (not to mention factually inaccurate) books ever published -- no small accomplishment] did. He knew it well.") — while simultaneously being an avid fan of other cultures ("I'm a big fan of the old Negro spirituals"), Finkelstein is a paradigmatic example of (I'm afraid I must say) the so-called "rootless cosmopolitan". He's a Marxist drone with no identity.

  • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

    Finkelstein is one of those progressive American Jewish leaders that has the decency, sense of justice, humanity to tell the truth about the crimes of Zionist regime. He exposes them as a son of victims of Holocaust, which is unfortunately exploited by Nazionists and their wron-wing End-times Evangelical allies. We know that no evidence and no truth will change the barbaric and fascist mindset of those who are inflicted by the fascist Zionist Virus.

    Zionists are intoxicated with power, they will use it for the destruction of others (currently, Palestinians) and they will not stop until the slow but the surely grinding wheel of justice will lead them to their ultimate fate: self-destruction.

    Zionism and Israeli government's atrocities, terror and massacres against Pals in concentration camps will be condemned by the children of future Jews as a shameful page in their history, akin to Nazis in Germans history. Wait and you will see.

    • ajnn

      "concentration camps", "destruction of others", "intoxicated with power", "barbaric and facist mindset of those infected with the zionist virus".

      What are you smoking?

      Classic stuff: nothing good about jews or israel except those that condem the whole country. This is why the conflict continues – because there is no room for compromise on the other side. The supporters of the Palestinian Arabs are just as extreme as the Palestinian Arabs.

      Israel has offer compromises and reasonable, workable plans for a real peace. 1923, 1929, 1937, 1948, 1967, 1977, 1993, 2000. All years in which the Israelis accepted and tried to implement peace plans and negotiations and were rejected in favor of murder and lynchings.

    • Sashland

      You may claim that Zionist and Israel are "akin" to nazis, but the historic and literal truth is that hamas and the palestinians are the allies, protectors, and heirs or the REAL nazis.

      Your's is a sick lie full of hatred.

      You and the palestinians are just pissed off because those Jews have the gaul to hit back at their attackers.

      Israel is a sovereign government under attack by its law-breaking neighbors whose self-avowed goal is its complete destruction and the genocide of the Jewish people.

      Seen in the light of reality you position is unsupportable and evil.

      • Toma

        Oh really?Evil like bombing hospitals,mosques,schools,and power stations?Evil like starving a people,bombing them weekly and then when they shoot a few pathetic rockets at one the most formidable and best trained armies in the world calling it,well, evil?

        • Sashland

          Well, yes, evil, as the palestinians have an avowed goal of genocide.
          The palestinians have rejected peace and cry when their attacks bring responses, and then cry when the mosques, hospital and schools they use as armories and launching sites are attacked.

          Why do you parrot these lies and support self-avowed genocidal killers?

          • Toma

            and then cry when the mosques, hospital and schools they use as armories and launching sites are attacked. "

            Human Rights Watch has extensively investigated this silly claim and has found no evidence that Hamas used Palestinians as human shields.Quite the contrary,it was Israel that used Palestinian as human shields.You are the parrot.

          • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

            It is big lie that Pals rejected peace. Israel has shown times and again that Zionists has no interest in peace. Peace talks are just used as a game to keep borders ambiguous, the keep the condition of Pals at limbo so that settler thiefs and bullies can grab more Pal lands. While Israel was massacring teenagers and colonizing Pal's land, their early excuse was "Look our dirty subjects are not accepting our power, our government." More than a decade ago Fatah removed the clause setting the annihilation of the Zionist gestapo as their goal. What happened? Nothing. Hamas kept its words and did not attack the occupying Nazonist gestapo for a year. What happened Israel assassinated several of their leaders and kidnapped the rest and then attacked Gaza, killing 1600 civilians, 400 of them being children.

            The Zionist propaganda used to portray themselves as poor victims, but the world finally is waking up and witnessing the truth. Wait and see when the majority of American people learn those facts. None will help them!

      • Toma

        the palestinians are the allies, protectors, and heirs or the REAL nazis.

        Do you ever notice how childish,selfish,factless and hopelessly prejiduced you seem?

    • xman

      Get back to Turkey, Jew-hating Armenian Genocide-denying Turkish pig.

      • Toma

        Oink!

    • Joseph Klein

      Go back and read some history. It was the Palestinian leadership during World War II who befriended the real Nazis and whose fanatical successors have vowed ever since to finish Hitler's "Final Solution."

      • Toma

        Yes, the Palestinians hold Nazi ralleys every weekend, where they read Mein Kampf and salute the Führer.Mr Klein,if that is your standard of journalism your future doesnt look very bright

        The fear of territorial displacement and dispossession was to be the chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism.
        Benny Morris

      • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

        Now, Zionists fabricating a new propaganda: It was Muslims that did the Holocaust. You are pathetic liars and one day even fools will reject your lies.

    • Tom W.

      I will continue posting my standard answer to Edip Yusel as along as he remains a hypocrite! He's a hypocrite because he calls himself an apostate of Islam and yet he still spews fourth toxic Islamic propaganda demonizing Jews and the State of Israel! So once again here's my pat answer:

      This is Edip Yuskel's website:http://www.yuksel.org/

      This is my response to him:

      wow-what a hypocrite! First you were an extremist following the path of the Muslim Brotherhood, you've been in prison, you're in exile, your books have be banned, etc.

      Wow–and after all that, you still have the fu*king nerve to label Israel as a fascist Zionist regime–you're mentally sick! All your personal problems are directly related to living under Islam! So screw you! By the way, you know that you're a complete hypocrite calling yourself an apostate when you're still able to spew the exact and I mean the exact propaganda of Islamic hate against the Jews! If you really are an apostate then you should able to come out and say that Muhammad was a monster, he killed Arabian Jews, stole their property, sold some as slaves and kicked the rest out of Arabia. If Muhammad was a mad man than the Jews were not evil and don't deserve the demonization of my fellow Muslims. But you don't see the Jews that way, thus you aren't an apostate!

      Jews are only evil and deserve the kind of twisted comment you posted above from only those people who have been indoctrinated by their religion that opposes Judaism. If you're truly an apostate of Islam then you would feel repentant for what Muslims have done to the Jews! Because if you're a true apostate of Islam then you would know that until Muhammad heard voices and went of a orgy of violence, Arabian Jews lived in peace! In fact, only the various Arabian tribes fought each other over property (fertile land, water wells, etc.) and they only made peace once a year in a ceremony around the kabba, where each tribe housed their idols (gods that were good luck to the tribe). Until the advent of Muhammad's Islam, the Jews were not demonized nor seen as evil by the Arabs.

      So think about that for awhile and then take off that bit of nonsense on your website that you're an apostate! If you really want to be an apostate, you have a hell of a long road ahead of you in self-discovery before you can even earn the title of being an apostate from Islam. Until your filthy mind is released from years of indoctrination then to me based on your posting, you will might be that of an apostate but you mind and rational thought is still that of a Muslim!

      Think about that for a good long while!

      PS: Will the real Edip Yuksel please stand-up, the Muslim or the wannabe Islamic apostate!

      • Toma

        I think there is only one filthy stupid person here pretending to be very clever.Israel is a nasty brutal child murdering apartheid little shit state.According to Muslims?Far from it,according to Zionist and Israel loving legal expert Richard Goldstone.Dont drag Islam into this you cretin.

        • Tom W.

          If you're replying to my post–drop dead! Why? Because my post was in response to Edip Yuskel and only Edip Yuskel! You say I shouldn't drag Islam into what exactly? Did you read my post–either answer Yes or No! Because if you took the time to read it and had clicked onto the link that has Edip Yuskel's summary of his life's struggles, every single problem he has had is directly related to one thing and just one thing only…duh–it's Islam! Edip Yuskel is a hypocrite by being some kind of apostate from the real version of Islam (radical / violent / uncompromising) and he believes Islam can be reformed / watered down or tamed to some degree. See the symposium he is planning on going to: http://www.islamicreform.org/

          My post is saying he's a hypocrite because everything wrong in his life is directly related to Islam, yet he still believes in a reformation of this religion! That's why he's an apostate and if Muhammad were alive today, he would cut off Yuskel's head! My point, if you can understand English, is that all his language of demonizing the Jews comes directly from Islamic propaganda! Remember–this is the exact religion which he himself wants to reform! Yet his mind is still in the sewer with his gutter language of Zionism being the bad Bogeyman! That's why he is a hypocrite and if you can't follow the basic logic of an argument, you better hire a private tutor to help you understand any articles you read whether in newsprint, in magazine or on the Internet!

          You're an idiot because you're attacking me for something I didn't do, which was to 'drag Islam into this' as you put it! I'm attacking Edip Yuksel on being a hypocrite! A person who believes in reforming Islam, yet his mind is demented by years of Islamic indoctrination which demonizes Jews. If Edip Yuksel is serious about reforming Islam, the first issue on the agenda should be in ending this toxic hate against the Jews!

          But Toma since you can't even follow such a simple argument and since you turn around and insult me for something I didn't do, then the only cretin here is YOU BUDDY!!!

          • Toma

            What does his personal struggles concern you?Refute his accusation against Israel.As I said this has nothing with Islam,nor with Judaism.

          • Tom W.

            I refuse to even reply to you! You're brain dead! Want proof? Print out what I posted and give it to people you know–OK? That's all I suggest! Even better yet, I suggest you bring this back to your first high school English teacher no matter how old you are because by grade 9, students' should be competent at reading novels and newspapers and be to discuss them! Me? I have 2 university degrees, I'm over qualified to attempt to teach you, you need to begin at the rudimentary levels of reading and comprehension!

            I'm serious! If you can't serious understand my simple post, it's not a complex argument and say this has nothing to do with Islam than you're illiterate! I'm not kidding here and this is very sad! The basic educational testing on reading and comprehension give the student different levels of difficulty and complexity in terms of logic, following details, etc. Then at the end are various questions, usually multiple choice but sometimes requiring written answers. Also the level of difficultly is related by whether or not the student is allowed to go back to the reading section to take a second look what what he/she just read. In my case, my post is still up, you can take all day to read and re-read it but after all that if you still can't comprehend the basics of my argument then you're really not that smart!

            You're totally ignorant if you can't follow the logic that Islam is the cause of Edip Yuksel's skewed worldview, especially on demonizing the Jews (also his anti-Israel language of the evil Zionists is the basics of Islamic theology). As I say, please just print all this out and give it to other people to read, then and only then respond!

          • Toma

            You dont have a clue because the answer is actually very simple.Are you ready?The reason Edip Yuksel doesnt like Israels conduct is because millions of decent people around the world are appalled at the sight of carbonized toddlers and burnt out ambulances.There are wonderful Jewish individuals,such as Holocaust survivor Heidi Epstein,who risk their life trying to enter Gaza.Now vulgar individuals like you,boasting about their education,can not argue the facts without making it about the other persons religion or background.Its an easy way to deflect away from an uncomfortable reality.

          • Tom W.

            I did the reverse of what I told you to do–which was what again? Print all these posts out and give it to other people to read, well guess what? I just did that and you want to know the answer? People think worse of you than I–that says a lot! Some people told me if these kid couldn't even follow a straight forward logically mini essay, he deserves to be unemployed!

            That's comes from many people I know that look at resumes, who examine internal business examines (those employees who are ambitious enough to apply for higher paid jobs within the companies they work in) and who also interview people in person. These people all told me they wouldn't even hire you for an entry level position because not only are you unable to follow logic but you would be the type of person to harass your fellow employees. You're the type of person that would be disruptive, you wouldn't be a team player and would pick on those employees you were jealous of via a low tolerance of frustration!

            So drop dead! By the way, these people I consulted never read your last post but see they were all dead on; you have a low level of frustration and rather than do what I suggest you–you turned around and insulted me! I'm not the vulgar person–you are and you deserve to be unemployed for the rest of you life! I pity any employer that hires you because you'll disappointment almost from the start and once your attitude kicks, you'll be kicked out of your job!

            I will not be checking this link anymore so save your temper tantrum you anti-social prick because you're dead to me!

          • Toma

            LOL.I made some islamopobic asshole really mad.Well done Toma.

          • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

            Thank you Toma for your defense of justice and truth. My support of Pals has nothing to do with their religion. In fact, I consider Sunnis or Shiites to be no different than Christians. Ironically, I find Judaism more monotheistic than all.

            So, it has to do with my sense of justice. I defend Jews if they are oppressed and I defend Arabs if they are oppressed. I care less about the race of religion of people if they commit evil.

    • aliko

      I think one quote from his website should tell everyone who Edip Yuksel is:

      "I worked closely with the Muslim Brotherhood of Syria and Egypt, studying the ideas of modern-day Islamic proponents."

      To those who don't know, the Muslim Brotherhood is the organization responsible for killing Anwar Saadat, president of Egypt who signed a peace agreement with Israel.
      This organization is the root from which Hamas grew off.

      Edip Yuksel, don't you want your 72 virgins already?

    • wattruth

      After reviewing the extremely cranial replies to Mr. Yuksel I will humbly submit my summation, "Edip Sucks!"

    • walt kovacs

      norman is not a progressive…i am a progressive

      a progressive does not support regressive regimes like hamas and hezbollah

      regimes that treat women, gays and non muslims as less than second class citizens

      regimes that see nothing wrong with honor killings

      your understanding of what is a progressive, leaves much to be desired

      norman is a radical

  • Bert

    Do not make mistake, Mr Finkelstein is not a psychopath, he is a neurotic.
    A neurotic is suffering, and want to provide platform for suffering for others, in name of "love", an notion that has perverted undrestanding. ( Psychopath is suffering from hallucination )
    The etiology of neurosis, is not receiving love and attention, within first few years of life.

    • BS1977

      Pardon me…psychopaths do not necessarily suffer from schizoid hallucinations…psychopaths have deep seated personality disorders, compulsions, rituals and obsessive thinking patterns. Psychopaths or sociopaths are capable of functioning, but their behavior/thinking process often highly abnormal or distorted. A neurotic is defined by conflicted goals and ideas…the psychopathic has no such conflicts….amd can be comfortable lying, cheating, harming others etc….having no conscience, or regret, no inner restraints. Cultists, wacko ideologues and violent fanatics are classic psychopaths…..Jim Jones types. Finkelstein is a dogmatic ideologue….his entire output is based on his own formulations, divorced from reality or actual history. He has no ability to question his ideas or see the errors of his ways…a typical narcissist.

      • Toma

        Divorced from reality?Is quoting the Goldstone Report and Human Right organizations divorced from reality?Divorced from reality,like calling someone a psychopath and then not knowing what the hell a psychopath actually is?A psychopath has no highly abnormal though pattern,but is simply lacking a conscience and the feeling of remorse.
        Does that sound like Finkelstein,who ruined his career by supporting the Palestinian underdog?

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      The real psychopaths are those who recently killed 400 Palestinian babies in Gaza and are oppressing a nation inside open prisons or concentration camps, not those who are outraged condemning that atrocity.

  • BS1977

    Modern man has several psychoses to deal with….one is religion. Another is politics. Another is the torment and confusion of daily life…choices, decisions, conflicts, tension and stress put everyone on the existential hot seat…..it is the IDIOT who becomes a dogmatic purveyor of lies, half baked ideology, religious cultism, revisionist history, made up events and pure hatred….SUch is an IDIOT like N Frankenstein, excuse me, Finklestein….another trained seal, barking and lofting the beach balls of hatred, lies and false history….a pathetic, sick man without any latitude or capacity to doubt himself and his fanaticism.

  • Richard W.

    Finkelstein should be killed. Period.

    • Jacob

      Richard,

      Nah, that's ridiculous. I probably dislike Finkelstein as much as you do (if not more), but all you're doing when you say he should be killed is giving his robotic fans ammunition to conceive of opposition to his dogmatism as an inherently irrational thing.

      What should really be done with Finkelstein is that he should be forced to see a good psychiatrist. The guy obviously has major psychological problems that need to be addressed by a therapist, rather than being coddled and encouraged to continue spewing his propaganda by the Muslim Student Union/Muslim Student Association at whatever university he is invited to speak at.

      That, or someone should slip a few tabs of LSD into his coffee. Man, would that give Finkelstein the opportunity to see what a piece of crap he really is.

    • Sashland

      No. Wrong.

      Finkelstein should be called out on his lies, denounced as fraudulent, and shunned as a disgrace.

      He is a good example to show children that evil resides within humanity and it must be exposed and resisted.

      Use him as an example of evil and get motivated to do some good yourself.

      • Toma

        Thats is so merciful of you.

      • Sashland

        Some people see embracing evil as mercy; I see denouncing and opposing evil as mercy.

        So, thank you, I think…

  • Toma

    I swear if you say that again,I will inform the police.I promise you.

    • xman

      The cops should be locking up trash like yourself, instead.

  • Toma

    All you people are beyond ridicule.I have read all of Finkelsteins books and he almost never states his own opinion.He merely repeats what Amnesty,Human Right Watch,Btslem,Breaking the Silence and now a prominent Zionist Jew have meticulously documented for years.For that you want to kill him?What dirty Naziscum you are!Real filth.Your beef is not with Finkelstein,but with virtually every legal and human rights expert in the world.I am watching this blog and you and if I see you threaten Mr.Finkelsteins life again you are in big legal trouble.I am not kidding.

    • Sashland

      I agree that it is wrong to threaten F.

      Do you get so worked up over events like the attempt to machete the Canadian students, or numerous actual murders and terror attacks both in the US and Israel? Was it Jews who kidnapped a man in France and tortured him to death?

      What do you think of people in the US who illegally send money to hamas to support their actual murder campaign?

      When F. lies and distorts, is he not inflaming passions and helping to incite violence?

      I hope you are still watching this blog…

      • Toma

        Oh please tell me where he distorts and lies.I have been following his career for a decade now and not once has anybody anywhere come up with one example.That is because you are not up against Finkelstein only,but up against the entire international community,the civilized world if you want.I also have a problem with billions of american tax dollars going to Israel to burn Palestinians children with white phosphour.Do you have a problem with that?

        • Joseph Klein

          I suggest you read my article again which started this back-and-forth debate. I presented several examples of Finkelstein's facetious arguments and I barely managed to scratch the surface of his distortions. Historical context matters, which is why Finkelstein refused to directly answer my question about the threats to Israel's existence contained in the Hamas Covenant that has not been revoked.

          I agree with you that any threats against Finkelstein or anyone else are entirely out of bounds and must never be tolerated. The best way to deal with the kind of lies that Finkelstein perpetutates is in the marketplace of ideas.

          • Toma

            Well the marketplace of ideas had ample time to discredit him and it has failed.Quite the contrary,it doesnt look good for Israel at all.The international community is gearing up and report after report is just to much evidence to ignore.That ploy about the Hamas Charta is so silly.Yes it is Antisemitic and genocidal,no it tells you nothing about the way political actors actually behave.Israels record on human rights and peace is far worse then anything Hamas has ever done,including atrocious suicide bombings.

          • Joseph Klein

            Tell that to the ghosts of the six million Jews slaughtered in the Holocaust after nobody took Hitler's writings like Mein Kampf seriously.
            Also, don't you think that with all of Iran's help in re-arming Hamas and Hezbollah, and the real possibility of Iran's not only being able to produce nuclear weapons soon but also being able to transfer WMD weapons to its terrorist allies north and south of Israel, that Israel has some legitimate fear for its survival?

          • Toma

            First of all, if you think using horrendous weapons on defenceless children is an honor to the memory of six million Jews then you have got a serious problem.Why is it always powerful and economically vibrant Israel that fears for its survival?Why Shouldnt Iran fear for its survival?Obama just indirectly threatened to use nucleas weapons against it!Why shouldnt the Palestinians,the real victims,fear for their survival?Why always big and strong bully Israel?

          • Joseph Klein

            Israel has not threatened to wipe Iran off the map. The Israeli governing documents do not contain a pledge to obliterate its neighbors. The Palestinians are victims of their own rejectionism for 60 + years. And if you think that the practice of Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups to use women and children to carry suicide bombs strapped to their bodies and to kill innocent Israeli women and children in the process is to be taken lightly, then you are the one with the serious problem.

          • Toma

            Israel threatens Iran everday!And Israel,unlike Iran, has attacked its neighbours many times and killed their civilians.You are like a child sticking to his favorite Lollipop.Get of these silly talking points.Hamas charta this,Hamas charta that.I dont like their charta,but what i like even less is a powerful army unleashing its vengeance on children and calling it selfdefence.

          • Toma

            When was the last time Hamas send anyone to do a suicide bombing?Right,they stopped it when they became the goverment.

          • Joseph Klein

            Gee – you think that the suicide bombing campaign may have been thwarted just a wee bit by the blockade and the separation fence? Or do you really think that Hamas suddenly turned into saints after they got done killing their fellow Palestinians as part of their consolidation of power? How naive can you get?

          • Toma

            Maybe it also has something to do with wee fact that as a Goverment Hamas has to be more responsible and therefore even Khalid Mishal has said he is willing to accept the 2 state solution,never mind what the legendary and much loved charta says?

          • Toma

            Maybe with the fact that if they do a suicide bombing the sanctions will never stop?

          • Joseph Klein

            First of all there is a split within the Hamas leadership on any such proposal. Second, at most ,some Hamas leaders have talked about only a temporary truce, which is hardly the kind of security assurance that is necessary for peace. Third, Hamas continues to refuse to renounce terrorism, accept previously negotiated agreements between Israel and the PA or reognize Israel's right to exist. Until Hamas officially removes all the passages in its "much loved charta" threatening the destruction of the Jewish state, it is hard for any reasonable person to trust the temporary truce that some of its leaders are offering.

          • Toma

            The Palestinians are victims of their own rejectionism for 60 + years

            Says the man whining about Muslims coming to take over his country!You have a lot of chutzpa!

          • Sashland

            There you go again; trying to confuse people with facts…

            I just wish hamas supported apartheid instead of genocide.

          • Toma

            People?What Amnesty and Btselem documented is their opinion?The job of Human Rights Organizations is not to give their opinion.What does it have to do with people? So you also discount the testimony of Israeli soldiers who talked about killing civilians?So Breaking The Silence are all just communist liars?I could behave like you and say with indignation that everything documented about Hamas by Amnesty and Richard Goldstone is a lie.Why dont i?Because it makes me look silly,that why.

          • Sashland

            I just wish hamas supported apartheid instead of genocide.

            I just wish you supported reality.

            I just wish you weren't racist.

          • Toma

            Stop it man.You look foolish.

          • Sashland

            Normal things look foolish, to a fool.
            You support genocidal murderers and then say you disagree with their goal of genocide, yet still vehemently support them; now THAT is foolish.

            I jusy wish hamas only wanted apartheid and you were supporting apartheid instead of supporting genocide.

            Please stop now; you are not making yourself look foolish, you have proven that you are foolish.

            Hamas=terrorist. Toma=terrorist supporter and apologist.

            Funny thing is, you think you've won. hahahahahaha

        • Sashland

          Yes, I have a problem with children being killed.

          And, yes, I can and do criticize Israel when it makes mistakes.

          But, I do not agree that admitting that Israel make mistakes lead to the illogical conclusion that they should be abandoned to the hostile aggressiveness of their genocidal neighbors.

          Do you think that Israel has the right to exist and to defend itself? Or, do you easily dismiss all murderous attacks by the palestinians as just "pathetic attempts"? I am not blind to the suffering on both sides, are you?

          • Toma

            genocidal neighbors?
            Egypt,Jordan,Syria?That canard is so old and so pathetic.It just doesnt work anymore.For sane people.

          • Sashland

            Your duck of a canard just doesn't quack…

            If you start a fight and I kick your ass, don't go complaining that I hit you many more times.

            "possible" Israeli war crimes compared to deliberate palestinian war crimes ; they use children as human shields and then get people like you to decry their deaths and blame Israel.

            Its well past time for the palestinians to keep their promises and stop all attacks and incitement, as they agreed in the Roadmap. As in: STOP ALL VIOLENCE AND INCITEMENT.

            And what part of the neighbor vows to annihilate Israel did not actual occur? Did you happen to miss a few wars? Syria – still at war. Egypt and Jordan – they stopped attacking Israel and had peace, but they did stop attacking Israel and agreed to its existance. Until the palestinians stop attacking Israel, and calling for its destruction, there will be no peace.

            So, do you think that Israel has the right to exist?

          • Toma

            You kick my ass?Come on,you are very bad.Even you are admitting that three of the countries I mentioned are at peace with Israel,the third was recently bombed by Israel without retaliating.Where are your genocidal countries?I am waiting

          • Sashland

            Toma: that was a hypothetical example, not even close to a hint of a threat, and you use that as a reason to call me "very bad"? oh, come on, that's just silly.

            Here is what the analogy means: if the palestinians attack Israel they should not complain when Israel hits them back harder – they should not start the fight if they don't like the consequences. The "Nakba" was deserved and the palestinians are still complaining about the consequences of their own actions.

            Did you miss my repeated question or are you afraid to speak your "truth"?

            So, do you think Israel has the right to exist? For, as to Egypt and Jordan, that is a requirement of peace. Where do YOU stand?

            The palestinian neighbors are proudly genocidal – you support them, so do you agree with them? Well?

          • Toma

            Dont you realize how silly your questions are?Does Israel have the right to exist?Do Switzerland and China have the right to exist?States dont have the right to exist,they have the right to security.If Israel wants security why not stop the 43 year old occupation?I am sorry, if you think 750 000 innocent people deserved to be kicked out of their ancient homeland, if you think ethnic cleansing is a good idea then i have got nothing to say to you.You been refering to Palestinians as genocidal,which is quite strange considering the whole debate is about massive death inflicted by Israel on Palestinians.For you the Palestinians are subhuman and that is the crux of the matter-

          • Sashland

            So you spew out unfounded rude and outrageous accusations based on what? "For you the Palestinians are subhuman and that is the crux of the matter" This reveals your dementia and untruthful debating style.

            The reason I ask if you think Israel has the right to exist is that the people you champion do NOT believe this and want to destroy the country and all its Jews – that is why I say, correctly, that they are genocidal. Why do you support this?

            Don't throw that "ethnic cleansing" BS at me when Christian, muslins,and Jew all live in Israel, yet Jews are prohibited and Christians either prohibited or persecuted in palestinian areas and islamic countries.

            You are just a weak propagandist for murderers.

            BTW: Yes, China and Switzerland has the fight to exist free of attack from their neighbors, as does Israel.

            The WHOLE debate is not at all as you state; its just your position is the only part of the debate that you permit to enter your mind.

          • Toma

            Oh my,you seem to know a lot about what I want.Fact is, since you seem so obsessed about Israels right to exist,as if anyone is in position to take that away, and you spew racist accusations against the Palestinians,turning them into mindless robots who just want to destroy Israel and support the ethnic cleansing of 1948,while its the Palestinians whose existence and ancient culture is being destroyed, I must say yes you are a nasty racist.Face it.I support human rights for everbody,Jews and Muslims,but I dont support oppressors,be they Muslim or Christian or Jew.I support the international community and want it to enforce resolution 242,with sanctions if neccesary.This babble about Israels right to exist is just psychobabble for idiots.It exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it.Lets help the Palestinians to their right to exist.

          • Toma

            Do you think the Palestinian who donated the organs of his son,killed by Israeli soldiers,to sick Jewish children wants to destroy Israel?Richard Goldstone mentioned how moved he was by the kindness of the people of Gaza, even though their lives had just been destroyed by people pretending to act in the name of Judaism.You are a racist.Or else you would never support a might powerful state like Israel,babbling about Israels right to exist,while closing your eyes to the injustice visited on defenceless Palestinians.

          • Toma

            Answer one question to prove you are not a racist:do Palestinians have the right to defend their land and lives against Israel?

          • Sashland

            Yes, legitimate defense against any illegal acts; this does not mean launching terror attacks and then claiming to "defend" against Israel.

            Now, you answer one question to prove you are not a "racist": do you support the part of the hamas charter that calls for the destruction of Israel?

            (funny how you keep claiming that nobody wants to destroy Israel when that is their stated goal.)

            Sadly I must conclude you are not an honest person and are not open to even considering facts that don't fit with your "story". There is a reason why most of America supports Israel and distrust the palestinians: look in the mirror and inside your mind and realize that most people see your position as delusion, unsupported, and apologetic to terrorist murderers. Have fun with your twisting, but it is not convincing.

            Two expressions come to mind (get an American translator if you need one): Nuts! weak sauce.

          • Toma

            No I dont support it,but I support the right of the Palestinians to resist their occupier.Unfortunately for you, the majority of the world is on my side.If you like the company of crazy evangelicals,neoconservatives,euro-fascists and Alan Dershowitz then you make your own bed.What makes your argument so sad and so trivial is that you go on and on about Israels right to exist and Israels right to selfdefence,like a fetish.So nothing the Palestinans do could reasonably be constructed as selfdefence?Why?Because they are Arabs,or Muslims?You are the supporter of occupation,Apartheid,murder and racism.I have nothing to be ashamed of.International law and justice are on my side and i am proud to be standing on the side of the victims against charlatans and propagandists like you.I have soundly defeated all your arguments and you didnt manage to bring up anything except for silliness.Good night.

          • Sashland

            Strange, you and the palestinians are obsessed with LAND, but consider wanting to survive attacks, namely protecting LIFE, as a fetish?

            You do have something to be ashamed of: you support a murderous organization hamas even thought you SAY you disagree with their avowed goal of destroying Israel and committing genocide. You are a supporter of genocide; this is a proven fact.

            Its time for you to stop accusing people of supporting war criminals when that is, in fact, what you are doing.

            Your game of lies is transparent.

            NUTS! weak sauce.

          • Toma

            Yes, legitimate defense against any illegal acts

            Like illegal settlements;theft and occupation as recognized by the United Nations and the INCJ?

          • Sashland

            No, the UN resolution 242 does not say that: the borders are to be decided between the parties. That means Israel must agree to the borders. Until then the ownership is undecided. That's the law, no matter your desire or delusion that reality be different that reality.

            I can recognize your disconnect from reality and I don't think I'll ever understand your underlying hatred and support of genocidal murderers, but that is something you will have to resolve; in the meantime I'm happy to help expose your delusions. Just do us all one favor – when you choose a strap-on be sure that it is for pleasure, not for pain.

          • Toma

            Until then the ownership is undecided.

            Really?You are indeed a mental milktoast.Which planet do you live on?How many times do i have to explain the position of international law on the legality of “acquring territory by war“?
            Except in lunatic fringe groups everybody knows the occupation is ILLEGAL.There is nothing to debate.

          • Joseph Klein

            Then I guess it's time to give much of our Southwest back to Mexico, which we acquired as a result of the Mexican War.

            On a more serious note, it was Jordan that acquired Jerusalem unlawfully in 1948 as a result of the Arab-initiated war in violation of international law. The only time when Jews did not reside in East Jerusalem and was inhabited solely by Arabs was between 1948 and 1967 when Jordan occupied the city and prohibited Jews to reside or even visit East Jerusalem. Israel took back the Jews' own historical capital. The Arabs were the unlawful occupiers.

          • walt kovacs

            by all archeological evidence, what is considered israel proper was never an ancient homeland to arabs

            unless you consider a few hundred years as being ancient

            oh, and close to one million jews were expelled from arab lands from 48-67, without compensation

            yet not one is considered a refugee.

            know why? population exchange

            and its time to complete that exchange…so all the arabs can now go home to syria, egypt, jordan and lebanon

          • Toma

            Dont hinge on the word possible.The documentation is there for you to read.Can you read? Goldstone accused both Hamas and Israel of commiting warcrimes,Hamas cooperated with the investigative team,Israel refused.

          • Toma

            Well you call them mistakes,an expert on international law and jurist Richard Goldstone called them “possible crimes against humanity“.Therein lies all the difference.A mistake is when i park my car wrong or forget to close the fridge.I dont think 350 dead Palestinian children are mistakes.The deathrate of Palestinians to Israelis in operation Cast Lead was 100 to 1.Thats is not a war,that is a massacre.

          • Joseph Klein

            The Goldstone panel consisted of four members, three of whom considered Israel guilty beofre their investigation began. Goldstone was outnumbered 3-1, giving him all the credit you wish for his own objective judicial temperment. When one of the panel members refuses to consider hard photographic evidence of Hamas munitions inside mosques, it is appropriate to question the credibility of the panel's findings.

            The 350 dead Palestinian children figure comes from Palestinian sources and is a worst case estimate. While no reasonable person denies that the death of any child is tragic, there is no proof that Israeli soldiers deliberately sought out Palestinian children for killing. The real massacres occurred all too frequently as a result of Palestinian terrorist suicide bombings on busses, at hotels, at restaurants and at other clearly civilian targets inside Israel. Thousands of rocket attacks aimed at Israeli civilian locations – including schools – were designed as instruments of massacre.

          • Toma

            That is a complete and utter slander,the report was meticulously and painstakingly documented.Richard Goldstone even refused to work unless he also could investigate Hamas,thereby also accusing Hamas of warcrimes.
            It is not only the Goldstone Report that found no evidence of munitions inside mosques,it all the other human rights organizations also that didnt find any evidence for that.No; the 350 dead Palestinian children do not only come from Palestinian sources and yes the fact that Israel deliberately killed civilians was documented again and again.That was what the Goldstone Report was all about.Amnest found that Palestinian cilvilians “including children were at short range when posing no threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers."Amnest Internatioal,Operation Cast Lead pp1,24.
            Human Rights Watch documents killing of cilvilians “who were trying to convery their non-combat status by waving a white flag“.Human Rights Watch,White Flag Death,,pp 2,4 10-15.You want me to go on?I can do this all night long.

          • Joseph Klein

            Maybe I did not make myself sufficiently clear. Assuming Judge Goldstone's total integrity and objectivity, he was still outnumbered 3-1 by his biased co-members. When someone who is supposed to be engaged in fact-finding refuses to even look at a photograph of munitions inside a mosque, the bias is clear.

            The sources for charges against Israeli soldiers of deliberate killings of "civilians" came largely from the Palestinians themselves whom Hamas mostly control and select for their "testimony." It was Hamas that used their own people as human shields and Israel that showed enormous restraint.

            Again you share Finkelstein's proclivity to ignore history and context. The Palestinians could have had their own independent state more than 60 years ago but for the rejectionism of their Arab neighbors who violated international law in trying to drive "the Jews into the sea" and the refusal of the Palestinians themselves to negotiate in good faith and recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

          • Toma

            Maybe you didnt understand me.The people who wrote the report didnt just sit down and say Israel is guilty.Even if they were biased,even if they hated Israel,which is just silly,they documented everything ,interviewed witnesses,gathered data and then wrote down the report.Your accusation is baseless.I just cited the two most important human rights groups in the world and you keep on repeating your Palestinian canard.You claim that Israel showed restrain,but people who are far smarter then you and far more respected then you and who are expert in nternational law say it isnt so.In the immortal words of a brave Jew,Richard Goldstone, Israel “punished and terrorized“ the civilian population.Now either prove him wrong or be quite.

          • Joseph Klein

            People far smarter than you or Finkelstein have rejected the biased Goldstone panel's findings. For example, as I mentioned in my article, the former commander of British forces in Afghanistan observed that in its offensive against Hamas in Gaza the Israeli army “did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.” I think it would be better to rely on his judgment than yours or the one-sided conclusions of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, which are both caricatures of human rights bodies on par with the discredited UN Human Rights Council. They worry far more about the Palestinians' largely self-inflicted wounds than the real human rights atrocities going on in places like Darfur and Sri Lanka.

            Legal experts such as Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz have pointed out the many legal deficiencies in the Goldstone Report. Where did you say that Finkelstein is teaching now?

            Telling me to be "quite" (sic) just demonstrates your aversion to the truth.

          • Toma

            Mr.Klein,keep on repeating your pathetic Israeli propaganda points and if all doesnt help refer to legal expert Dershowitz.Yes sure,rely on the expertise of a commander and a lawyer whose claim to fame for protecting civil rights was fighting for the right to watch pornography and defending murderers.That is your legal team?Dershowitz managed to upstage Richard Goldstone.Oh my! Finkelstein is a superb scholar,which even the late Raul Hillberg admitted.

          • Joseph Klein

            A "superb scholar?" I'm still waiting to find out at what prestigious institution of learning Finkelstein is demonstrating his "superb" scholarship. Maybe Harvard is just not good enough for him like it is for Dershowitz.

          • Toma

            Being a superb scholar is not tied to the institution one teaches.That is just elitism.Finkelstein ruined his own career by his stances and his personal ethics which he refused to surrender.He is a careful and methodical forensic scholar who goes through all the documentation.But dont trust me!Here is Oxford profesor Avi Shlaim “A very impressive,learned and careful scholar.“
            Finkelsteins place in the whole history of writing history is assured
            Raul Hillberg
            Beyond Chutzpah is the most comprehensive.systematic and well-documented work of its kind.
            Baruch Kimmerling
            All Antisemites I am sure.

          • Joseph Klein

            Name one peer-reviewed scholarly article that Finkelstein managed to get published.

            And consider this excerpt from a New York Times review of Finkelstein's "Holocaust Industry." The reviewer was Omer Bartov, author of ''Mirrors of Destruction: War, Genocide, and Modern Identity'' and the John P. Birkelund Distinguished Professor of European History and Professor of History and Professor of German Studies at Brown University:

            "There is something sad in this warping of intelligence, and in this perversion of moral indignation. There is also something indecent about it, something juvenile, self-righteous, arrogant and stupid.

            This book is, in a word, an ideological fanatic's view of other people's opportunism, by a writer so reckless and ruthless in his attacks that he is prepared to defend his own enemies, the bastions of Western capitalism, and to warn that ''The Holocaust'' will stir up an anti-Semitism whose significance he otherwise discounts."

          • Toma

            Yawn.

          • walt kovacs

            yawn????

            anyone can write a book

            very few can get published in a peer reviewed journal

            ann coulter gets on the ny times bestseller list every time she releases a new book…does that make her opinions legitimate?

            norm has a very bad habit of misrepresenting others works in his books…and this has been repeatedly pointed out

          • Toma

            Oh please tell,where has this been pointed out?The reason i was yawning, is because waiting for you to answer this question is going to take an eternity.Dont take for a fool,unlike everybody on this blog i have every single one of his books.
            Claiming that me misrepresents people is pure bullshit.

          • Toma

            Rely on the personal opinion of a commander in Afghanistan instead on the detailed findings of diverse and experienced human rights experts.I am dying of laughter.Who lets you write articles?Oh yes,Frontpage magazine.Hysterical.

          • Joseph Klein

            Typical Finkelstein-style scholarship. Juvenile personal attacks rather than reasoned arguments backed by credible evidence. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are no more credible than the UN Human Rights Council which commissioned the Goldstone Report in the first place and made sure that the deck was stacked against Israel. You have yet to refute the clear bias of 3 out of the 4 panel members. Just like Alice-in-Wonderland – verdict before the evidence.

            And if you don't like what appears in FrontPage Magazine why are you hanging around this site? Why don't you join your friends at the Huffington Post or the Daily Kos?

          • Toma

            I am juvenile?You are the one rejecting massive evidence because you think its biased,not because you can prove the conclusion is wrong.

          • Joseph Klein

            Just a few examples of the Goldstone Report's distortions of the facts as compiled by the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America :

            REPORT: There is no evidence of Palestinian fighters using civilian clothes.
            FACT: Journalists and eyewitnesses repeatedly noted the use of civilian clothes by Hamas fighters.

            REPORT: There is no evidence of armed groups directing civilians to areas where attacks were being launched or forcing them to remain in the vicinity of attacks.
            FACT: Palestinian witnesses and video evidence reveal that fighters did direct civilians to areas where attacks were being launched.

            REPORT: There is no evidence that hospitals or ambulances were used for military activities.
            FACT: Eyewitnesses describe Palestinian firing from hospitals and using ambulances.

            REPORT: The mission could not determine whether mosques were used for military purposes.
            FACT: There is video evidence of weaponry stored in a mosque, and of secondary explosions of mosques consistent with the storage of explosives.

          • Toma

            Oh really,Mr.Klein names the findings of the Goldstone Report and juxtaposes them next to Israeli propaganda,therefore once and for all discrediting the Report.Fact and that is the only thing that matters is that exhaustive research has disproven this propagande again and again.All you can do is call them biased.Which proves nothing except for the fact that the findings make you extremely uncomfortable.

          • Toma

            Israel used human shields.Ask Amnesty.
            http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/143/

          • Joseph Klein

            Here is one example why you just can't trust hard left groups like Amnesty International. They even gloss over the boasting of Hamas officials themselves about using their women and children as human shileds:

            Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

            Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

          • Toma

            Unfortinately for you I am to well informed to be sucked in by your silly talking points.Here is what he was refering to. http://palsolidarity.org/2006/12/1761

          • Joseph Klein

            Yawn! Your continual denial of the obvious is truly tiresome. You try to explain away the clear words of the Hamas organization (as expressed in its Charter) and its leaders (boasting about using women and children as human shields)that you are so hopelessly defending, except when they lie about Israel.

            It is also ironic how you now cite a left-wing website (the International Solidarity Movement) which disagrees with the following conclusion from Human Rights Watch – the very same organization that you cite for your vicious attacks on Israel:

            "We note with disappointment that Human Rights Watch (HRW) chose to condemn these actions, suggesting that they could constitute a “war crime.” In a November 22, 2006 press release entitled, “OPT: Civilians Must Not Be Used to Shield Homes Against Military Attacks” HRW Middle East Director Sarah Leah Whitson said, “There is no excuse for calling civilians to the scene of a planned attack. Whether or not the home is a legitimate military target, knowingly asking civilians to stand in harm’s way is unlawful.”

            Again – how pathetic!

          • Toma

            Pathetic?Human Rights Watch letter apologized for its condemnation.The reason they apologized is because Hamas didnt force Palestinians as human shields to protect the house, but the brave Palestinians women chose a way of resistance that was nonviolent and in solidarity with their people.You should salute their courage.

          • walt kovacs

            ism is not a left wing group…they are a terrorist front group who see no problem in placing foreign nationals in harms way

            just ask rachel corrie…whoops…that wont work

          • Toma

            Oh yeah thats real funny you thug.Unlike you she was a good feeling human being and people loved her.I am quite sure you are not really loved yourself.

          • Toma

            Israel illegal use of white phosphorous against civilians.Human Rights Watch.
            http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/03/25/israel-whit

          • Joseph Klein

            Now you are sinking below even a juvenile level of discourse. First you accuse me of relying on the 'bias' argument (which you have yet to refute because you can't) rather than address the conclusions of the Goldstone Report . And then when I present you with findings by an organization committed to objective, fact-based journalism that contradict the distortions in the Goldstonoe Report that had been based on anecdotal "evidence" and that dismissed hard photographic evidence, you dismiss them as "propaganda."

            How pathetic!

          • Toma

            “organization committed to objective, fact-based journalism“

            I think I just choked on my bagel.

          • Toma

            So much evidence,so much evidence.What to do with all the evidence?Oh yeah,lets just call it biased and then it will magically dissapear into thin air.Mr.Klein,you are genius!

          • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

            Toma, thank you for defending a defenseless population left at the mercy of Nazionists. Please contact me and I would like to send you my recent book, Peacemaker's Guide to Warmongers, as a gift.

          • Toma

            Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war
            http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155800.html

          • Joseph Klein

            Deplorable to be sure and deserving of punishment if found to be true, but as usual you miss the larger point so I will print it in all caps for you.

            IT WAS ISRAEL'S IDF THAT INVESTIGATED AND BROUGHT THE CHARGES AGAINST THESE SOLDIERS. WHERE IS THE COMPARABLE LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR PALESTINIAN CRIMES BY HAMAS OR THE PA? WHERE ARE THEIR INVESTIGATIONS?

          • Toma

            Oh please,the IDF first denied using these weapons and was later forced to admit to it.Please please bring me the proof that they were appropriately sentenced or that anyone was punished for killing civilians or using them as human shields.I beg you.

          • Joseph Klein

            Why don't you first beg your beloved Hamas and the Palestinian Authority to investigate and punish (even the slightest bit) the wrong-doing in their own ranks against their own people as well as against Israeli civilians? Where is even one page of substance from the Palestinian side addressing the findings against Hamas contained in your beloved Goldstone report and in the public statement of your beloved Human Rights Watch? HRW condemned them for putting their own children in harms way.

            Face it – you are defending terrorists who, in one of their own leader's words, prefer death over life including for their own children.

          • Toma
          • Toma

            Here is an interview with Desmond Travers,a member of the fact finding mission in Gaza.He mentions that there is no evidence that Hamas used Human shields. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/10/hbc-900060

          • Joseph Klein

            Desmond Travers – the same guy who spewed wild unsubstantiated charges against Israeli soldiers whom he accused of deliberately killing Irish soldiers. A real reliabile source, you think?

          • xman

            So what if it was 100 to one? If you fire rockets at innocent civilians in another country without provcocation and 'educate' your children to become terrorists, you deserve whats coming to you. Had the Gaza Striop been bordered with China and rockets had been fired into Chinese cities, the death ratio would have been more like 100,000 to 1, brainless pig.

    • Dale

      By selecting biased sources such as Amnesty and Human Right Watch, both of which were and are cheerleaders against Israel's "disproportionate force" claims as in summer 2006, he does, in fact state "his own opinion." There are countless pro and anti Israel organizations that a writer can use to support their own opinions. So you are wrong to assert that "he almost never states his own opinion." A martyr relying on the Koran is also stating his opinion – without words.

      What you call "every legal and human rights expert in the world" is an embarrasment to Western civilization. The U.N. devotes 2/3rds. of its censuring condemnations against Israel, while other civil conflicts are killing thousands around the world without mention. Such "experts" that are clearly biased or bought, is no great evidence of justice.

      • Toma

        You have a problem.The problem is that every human rights group documents the same things about lovely Israel.Torture,house demolitions,willful killing of innocents,use of illegal weapons,distortions,theft,assasinations.Now when you cant prove the opposite and you simply call them biased because you dont like what they say,it makes you look foolish.And if was up to you we would have never solved the Apartheid problem in South Africa,or abolished Jim Cow,because somewhere in Africa there are people suffering far more.Go figure.

        • Toma

          Sorry,Jim Crow.

        • Dale

          The problem is not "what" but "why." We know that "every human rights group documents the same things about lovely Israel." But with civil conflicts in dozens of countries, many of them much more serious (how many just in Africa?) the real question is "why?" Why is Israel placed under the world's microscope? Is it because Palestinians are or were so important a part of civilization, much more than Christians in Africa, or in Egypt, or Kurds?

          If not, then the focus on Israel, under the pretext of sympathy for Palestinian suffering, is a pathetic sham. It's a double sham in that Israel's actions, fully legal or not, are always in self-defense, whether taking out missile factories or building barriers. The U.N. or other so-called "experts" have never declared kidnapping of Israelis by Hamas or Hezb. a comdemnable violation. The U.N.'s 50-foot-tall microscope monster is casting a long shadow on Western civilization.

          • Toma

            That sounds exactly like what it is,pathetic whining of an occupier and serial human right abuser.The answer is simple.If Israel wants to belong to the western world and if Israel boasts about being the only democracy in the Middle East,then dammit we will take her to task.

        • Sashland

          I worked for many years against South African apartheid and the situation is Israel is NOT like the situation in South Africa. False analogy.

          • Toma

            Then go argue with Bishop Desmond Tutu and John Dugard. http://www.seruv.org.il/english/article.asp?msgid

          • Sashland

            I would be happy to argue at length with Bishop Desmond Tutu. I would like to walk with him through all of Israel and the territories, meet with hamas and have them explain their goals in plain words and explain the meaning of their charter and its call for genocidal violence, meet with the Israeli military and review their training and tactics, meet with historians, and meet with the victims and families under terror attack. Then he can show me the evidence that Israel is an apartheid nation while explaining to me how islamic nations that outlaw Jews are NOT apartheid states.

            I'm ready to debate him because he is demonstrably WRONG. He may be an honorable man with a great history but that does make him automatically right when the facts don't support his position.

          • Toma

            He has already been to the occupied territories,talked to the Palestinian victims of terrorism,saw the Israeli training of herding people at checkpoints, heard about Israels goal of destroying Palestinian life,talked to historians like Avi Shlaim.He has seen the evidence you milktoast.

          • Sashland

            Exactly my point, he only looked at one side.

            Like you.

          • Toma

            You cant even argue with me,how do you want to argue with Tutu?

          • Joseph Klein

            You have already lost the argument.

          • Toma

            I have lost argument?I am sorry Mr.Klein,but as a journalist your ida of a debate is quite astonishing.I dont like this,I dont like that.Rejecting massive human rights findings out of hand do we?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Foolster41 Foolster41

      Ha! Nazis that support Israel? Good one, good one.

  • Kenlar

    Dear Mr Edip Yuksel
    There are many points, unanswered, in your debate with Mr Ali Sina.
    To gain any credibility, would you please first elaborate on those hunting issues.

  • 080

    Zionism hasn't caused Arab anti-semitism. It was the anti-Semitism that caused Zionism.

  • Toma

    sorry two.

  • Toma

    sorry civil rights court.

  • Toma

    Here is another one in the long list of crimes of the only democracy in the Middle East,threatening the lives its own citizens for practicing free speech and exposing the crimes of the occupation.Did the United States punish Daniels Ellsberg this way for leaking the Pentagon Papers,which were much more sensitive?

    • To the ignorant

      On the eve of Memorial Day for the Holocaust, there is one child survivor who wants to tell you the ignorant one.
      People like you have caused the first Holocaust and will bring the second one upon all of us!!!!!!!!!
      This one will not stay in the Middle East but will engulf the whole world.

    • Crusader

      Oh dont go comparing Finklestein with Ellsberg . Finklestein has an innate hatred for the State of Israel , and this is historically proven by anyone investigating his rantings and writings . He sidesteps with arrogance and total intellectual dishonesty , the Hamas Charter , and The Palestinian National Charter , both of which OVERTLY call for the destruction of Israel . He is a self-hating jew who is on a mission driven by his own twisted concscience . He assumes a credibility by himself being a jew , but his bias and hatred drip from his every word , he is driven more by that hatred rather than the "faux love " or concern for palestinians ,he alleges of himself , which is merely his chosen vehichle . He is nothing more than a perennial willing lackey of Israel's enemies .

      • walt kovacs

        i think he is comparing anat kamm with ellsworth

    • wattruth

      Toma , after perusing your posts I am confused about your love of The Land and The People! Is it Adonai, Moshe or the Torah you have problems with ? You posit such anti- Zionistic rhetoric with such passion. Truly you are a "hateful" little man who exploits his own jewishness. Sad misuse of intelligence my friend. " He who curses the sons' of Ya'akov, curses himself! "

  • Toma
  • Toma

    By your unqualified support you people are destroying the very state you pretend to love.Israel has become a beacon of corruption and sleaze.Now its cracking down on dissent.Welcome to the Middle East.Hope you enjoy your stay.

  • Toma

    I was refering mostly to xman

  • Sashland

    Toma:

    "Hope you enjoy your stay."

    Who was in the mideast first? Who came from elsewhere as invaders?

    Haven't the doctors come to give you your meds yet?

    Please seek help before you go all sudden jihad on us an act out your Sirhan Sirhan murder love fantasies. Despite all of the intense propaganda the American people clearly see Israel as the counrty that is the friend and ally of the US while they recognize the palestinians as violent murderers incapable of running of government.

    it must really irk you, no, that the vast majority of Americans see things exactly OPPOSITE of your views.

    Maybe YOU are wrong?

    Maybe it is time for you to listen and read quietly for a moment and reconsider your self.

    • Ron Grant

      "Who was in the mideast first? Who came from elsewhere as invaders? "

      So many questions,Sashland.Like were European Jews fleeing the Holocaust or post war Europe justified in settling and or displacing native or settled Palestinians? Or how does one justify the right of return of present day American Jews or Black Ethiopian Jews or French or Russian Jews while denying the right of return to Palestinian refugees.Again,so many questions,Sashland.Muchiboy.

      • Toma

        Who was first?That is such a silly question in so many ways, because it assumes that we go on about this game who wast first and then you will tell me it was the Jews and on and on.I will tell you something that can not be argued and i think you will agree with me.The Jews have a long history in Palestine,the Palestinian Jews that is.Today their descendants,Muslims,Christians and Samaritans,are suffering under the yoke of an occupier who came with a bible in one hand and a rifle in the other.There is only one indigenous Population and that is the people refering to themselves as Palestinians.

        • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

          Blah, blah. It's always the same spew. If it's not the 1000 year old Crusades, it's the "we were here first" yarn. Give your empty head a shake. Jordan killed more palies than Israel ever could. Think they cared who was there first? How much of this "indigenous" crap do you really believe? Is it really because of the palies who were displaced during the treaty of '48, or is it because the war of '67 caused a refugee problem, or is it due to jealousy, that the very people arabs blame their entire failed civilization on, have evolved so far beyond their neighbors? What do you think would happen to the palies if the Jews weren't there? You think Egypt, Jordan would live with them in peace? The wars they started with Israel caused thousands of palie refugees – refugees Jordan turned away. Hence, the slums of Gaza. The order of course for the Jews was nowhere nearly as nice. They were to be slaughtered, down to the last child. Now arabs pretend to care about palies? The palies are pawns to be used as a political football. They aren't fed, clothed or given medical care by the arab street, they're used, brainwashed and armed.

          • Toma

            I am still asking myself,
            it it worth responding to you?

    • Toma

      the palestinians as violent murderers incapable of running of government. “

      You are a nasty antiarab racist.

  • Toma

    “I`n sentencing the officer, 1st Lt. Adam Malul of the Kfir infantry brigade, the court ruled that he had already served a sufficient punishment after spending 64 days in jail and a further 32 days under house arrest.The court also rejected a request by the prosecution to demote Malul to the rank of private.“
    From the same Article,absolutely unbelievably hilarious.I think i just made my case.

  • Toma

    Sirhan Sirhan was a Christian you milktoast.

  • Toma

    the vast majority of Americans see things exactly OPPOSITE of your views.

    The vast majority of Americans are not qualified to put butter on their toast,politically speaking.
    I dont think the opinion of a people of whom millions believe that the earth is 6000 years old makes me change my opinion on justice.I will stick to international law.Thank you very much.

  • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

    Finkie is speaking to/for the U.N. His intellectual reach is limited to the U.N. What more could Israel ask for? I wouldn't pull my car over for the U.N. They're a despicable, shameful, spineless, arrogant, racist, self-serving, and ultimately, we can rest easy knowing, 100% ineffective.
    If Finkie feels his soapbox is high enough at the U.N., then let the baby have his bottle. The fact he's even found a sympathetic ear in the U.N. should be evidence enough we can go back to ignoring the subhuman slime that comprises the U.N. There is nothing as disgraceful as someone who would voluntarily wear the blue hat of the U.N., let alone do so with pride. Ignore the U.N., and they'll go away. They can't even defend peasants in Darfur against savages on horseback – why would anyone with a soul even show up to a U.N. lipservice convention?
    To Israel and America's credit, they just show up for appearance sake. They ignore the U.N completely when necessary, and use the cowards in blue when necessary. The U.N. is a cowardly organization to be ignored at leisure. When Finkie speaks, this would be one of those moments.

    • Toma

      Spoken like a true Redneck:

  • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

    Toronto, 2 university degrees, atheist. If my lack of sympathy for Finkie and the U.N. are what you consider "Redneck", then by all means, light candles around his picture, pray to allah, build a Qasam rocket, or whatever makes you feel like you're fighting for the sacred underdog.

    • Toma

      Now I am relieved.You are not a Redneck after all.Thank god.

    • Toma

      Whats funny about your outrage at the cowardly UN, is that you dont seem to consider the Israeli attack on the starved helpless people of Gaza a cowardly act.A massive machine unleashed on women and children.You are really nasty.

      • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

        Ah, yes, and your approach to resolving the Qasam rockets issue would be to go door to door, like they did in Jenin? The world is watching as palies do themselves in by their own behavior. Finkie, and his ilk, are of little consequence. His forum is the U.N., which is ignored by everyone but the U.N. and rabid leftists. Israel thrives while palies stew in the filth their hatred, indoctrination and bigotry have yielded them. The so-called overuse of force you speak of isn't a solid case anymore. Palies refuse to evolve, and the number of those who believe they're this innocent, beleaguered underdog is dwindling. There is only so much tugging on Superman's cape you can get away with. If palies weren't breeding their children into hate-soaked ideology, one might pity the poor palie. How many rockets fired into Israeli territory are too many in your opinion?

        • Toma

          Should i even respond to that?

        • Toma

          In your opinion how many bombs dropped on Palestinian civilians,how much torture and many years of occupation are enough till Palestinians are allowed to shoot a few pathetic firecrackers at their Israeli overlords?

          • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

            Your schtick on the other hand is a bland copy/paste of every clichee of the Left. To someone huddling under a desk covering schoolchildren from shrapnel from rockets landing across the street, the aren't "pathetic firecrackers". Your arguments have been soundly refuted ad nauseum by anyone with an internet connection. As for bombs being dropped on palie civilians, do you think, in your limited knowledge, that perhaps halting the bombardment of Israeli towns with your rockets MIGHT, JUST MIGHT, keep that from happening? Your arguments do whatever cause the palies have, a disservice. Pathetic firecrackers? Do you seriously have that opinion? Hey, how's the palestinian liberation thing going for you? Worse every year, huh? Thought so. Palies have done worse every year since the camp david walkout. Ever wonder why?

        • http://www.thereligionofpeace.com Jimbo

          Finkie is to the Left, what Coulter is to the Right. Weak, biased, totally refuted arguments, meant only to stir the pot of dissent among the rabid left, 1st year poli-sci brats with self-righteous indignation, or just plain hateful sods with nothing but support for the underdog, even if the underdog is wrong. Palies will find the walls growing higher, their people growing poorer, their homes being used as launching pads, their mosques used as rage-factories. Israel, in the meantime, will continue to prosper, and eventually profit from the growing sentiment that they do, indeed, endure more than they should from the savages next door. Palies are incapable of blaming themselves, of living with their neighbor. They ignore the slaughters of their own by Jordan, instead relying on the Jewish reactions as their reason for suffering. Palies who think the old Arafat trick of palliewood winning the hearts and minds of the gullible activist types, will eventually pay for their savagery and discover that public opinion, not the U.N., is the most powerful thing of all. Al Jazeera will have a great time filming the plight of the palies, meanwhile not convincing the arab street to provide anything but more weapons and ideological support. Arabs LOVE feeding palies weapons to fight their default enemy. If Israel left the region, Jordan would kill off the palies, and anything but civil war would be shocking. Who would arabs blame for all their hardships THEN.

          • Toma

            Its funny you seem to think the Palestinians have nobody,since the whole world and practically every legal and international institution in the world is on their side.The movement to boycott Israel worldwide is picking up steam and Israeli politicians cant show their faces outside their country without fear of arrest.After Operation Cast Lead a major figure of international law and prosecutor in the Milosevic trial wrote a damning report about Cast Lead and the occupation.The Palestinians are not alone.I have read all of Finkelsteins books and you comparing him to Coulter just shows what an absolute moron you are.Your level of knowledge of the conflict is miserable and your soapy rants just make me yawn.Another hater in the world.Oh well.

          • Toma

            This is what is happening all around the world. http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11190.sht

  • Toma

    Finkelstein is a stellar example of a human being who never bowed to authority and whose motivation in life is redeeming the suffering his parents went through.For him never again doesnt mean never again for Jews only.Whats not to admire?

  • Toma

    Norman Finkelstein himself is the best argument against Antisemitism.

  • barbarasue

    Finklestein = self hating, arrogant, empty individual seeking praise and accolades thru distorting truths in order to create a new self image of a hip left wing politico who deserves to have hoardes of rich leftist girls hurl themselves at him in an attempt to feel good at never having produced anything of merit in his life

  • scumbucket

    Thank you for admitting that there were no Jews in Gaza in 1948. A better argument for 'get the hell out' couldn't be composed.

  • cochavi1

    Finkelstein is a fool and a useful idiot. The entire Goldstone Report is slander and would never be issue against any other people. But it is issued against the one army in the world – for better and for worse – that goes out of its way to protect the lives of enemy noncombatants. More than the US army, to be sure.

    There are two groups of Jews in the world (well, there are more but that's not interesting here) – those who believe that if they apologize enough Auschwitz will never reoccur and those who know that it can recur in any non-Jewish country at any time, or at 'some time', including even the United States.

    • Rhod Gates

      It was issued against both sides. Obviously you haven't read it.

  • lovezion

    Let's stop wasting our time and aggravation writing to those renegade jews!!!
    TO ALL YOUNG & HEALTHY JEWS & VOLUNTEER SYMPATHIZERS:
    The USA has been sold out and will become increasingly unbearable, especially to Israel and the Jews! Our liberal government's antisemitism is obvious except to the blind who don't want to see …the whole world is both blind AND antisemitic! We don't have a chance!
    Israel was satisfied with the little handful of land authorized by U.N. and other world authorities in 1948, and immediately started with hope and smiles transforming an arid desert into a flourishing land – the lustful envy of arab muslims and admiration of everyone who visits it…but the big bad wolf, the whole arab-muslim-influenced world, unprovoked, harassed it nonstop draining its blood and life resources and there was nothing Israel did, no matter how good and sacrificial, that satisfied the beast!

  • lovezion

    PART 2: For 2000 years even the non-aggressive antisemites haven't changed a bit and WILL NEVER CHANGE despite Jews' and Israelis' continuous efforts to do the politically correct thing, even helping Israel's enemies!…Israel endured (still does consistently) bloodshed and destruction of its cities. To help Israel and Jews to get well deserved PEACE we must try something else here:
    YOUNG/HEALTHY/STRONG JEWS AND SYMPATHIZERS OF THE WORLD: STOP WHINING OR CRITICIZING ISRAEL – NO GOVERNMENT WILL HELPS US. NO ANTISEMITES EVER CHANGE. LEAVE YOUR ROTTEN COUNTRIES AND GO TO ISRAEL TO STAY AND PROCREATE IN ABUNDANCE, NONSTOP. GO FIGHT FIERCELY AS YOU'VE NEVER DONE BEFORE. EMPOWER ISRAEL TO RE-GAIN ITS RIGHTFULLY-WON TERRITORIES AND CONQUER MORE! ISRAEL NEEDS NOT ONLY TO EXIST BUT TO PREVAIL IN FULL FORCE AND INCREASING POWER FOREVER TO ASSURE NOT BEING MOLESTED BY ANY COUNTRY!!! ISRAEL NEEDS YOU AND YOU NEED ISRAEL, WE BELONG TO EACH OTHER AND IT'S ONLY FAIR THAT YOU, YOUNG AND HEALTHY YIDS, GO AND HELP IT NOW! HOW ELSE DID AMERICA BECOME GREAT??? THOSE THINKING WE CAN CHANGE EVIL INTO MENTCH-HOOD…ARE NAIVE AT BEST (I CALL THEM STUPID IDIOTS!!!) Cont. to Part 3

  • lovezion

    FINAL PART 3: Oh how I'd love to be here when all Young/Healthy Jews LEAVE FOREVER! Ah…divine revenge!!! A world without Jews ain' goin' to produce the wonders that USA since its birth and the rest of the world enjoyed! They'll regret our people's absence and hopefully no Strong/Healthy Jew will ever leave Israel! :o)))

    SO…CONTINUE the BLOODY MERRY-GO-ROUND? OR TRY A BLOODLESS EXPERIMENT???

  • jack

    FInkelstein tells the ******TRUTH******

  • Rhoderick

    "Didn’t Israel have a legitimate existential fear for its survival, I asked him?"

    A country's survival isn't threatened by non-state actors. That's the epitome of hyperbole. So the answer is logically NO.

    And Dr. F. stuck to the topic, you made irrelevant, exaggerated claims.

    He asked you if you think using White Phosphorus as a weapon is justifiable because of your quotations; so he directly responded and asked you a question you didn't happen to like. You dodged it here, so YOU'RE the unreasonable person here.

    The fact that Israelis didn't kill "1.2 million" children doesn't legalise killing only a couple of hundred. That's a nonsense argument. A war crime is a war crime, full stop.

    "the Goldstone Report applied an outdated notion of international law that, in its interpretation, requires a democracy to sit back and wait for its citizens to be murdered in droves by armed terrorists before responding with overwhelming military force to prevent more attacks. Israel has the right to defend its innocent civilian citizens from attack by whatever means it deems necessary"

    All nation-states have the authority to defend themselves against an "armed attack" by another state. Not just liberal democracies. So your first claim in that paragraph is a lie. Israel wasn't attacked by another state. The second is that a state has a "right" to use "whatever means it deems necessary"; so true you made no citations. The Laws of War have a large number of restrictions on how wars or armed conflicts, can be waged. No country has a 'right' to unilaterally decide what tactics it can resort to.

    Eg; a functioning hospital cannot be attacked. Another; white phosphorus can only be used as a smokescreen or night-time flare, not as a weapon against military or civilian targets. Another; human shielding is also illegal. For each of those examples there is evidence of commission by Israeli forces. I guess by your standards any Israeli officers should be exonerated. Because you have this wild theory that a government can decide what's legal unilaterally to do. My God!

    • Rob

      Wow your words would have more merit if There weren't… what a dozen fully autonomous Islamic states w/ full citizenship to Muslims and LEGAL SECOND class citizenship to Jews.

      How do you defend such hate and vitriol spewed at a TINY insigniicant (and ONLY Jewish nation) for smply establishing their right to live peacfully as 1st class citizens in their own homeland of thousands of years?

      How do you justify without admitting jewish hatred and the belief that all Jews should be forever to live as second class 'Demi' citizens the fact of the HUGE nations of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, iraq, etc ALL immediately declaring war on AND invading (WITHOUT PROVOCATION) the Israeli area known as Palestine & formally known as JUDEA?

      Do you think Hamas was joking in its charter that they want to wipe out the Jews? Or Ahmadenajads many 'push into the sea' pronouncments. But I'm sure that's all just a coincidence… I'm sure the Koran just gets taken out of context as well but is actually tolerant towards the Jews.

      • Rhod Gates

        Predictably, you failed to stick to the topic. Like with sex; "Focus, FOCUS!"

  • Joe

    This is the most ridiculous site I have ever been on. Not only are the authors spinning arguments but the comments left here are absurd and sociopathic. It is pathetic. And the carte blanche defense of ALan Dershowitz should be stopped. He makes Israel look very bad. He is the last chance lawyer for many guilty clients. Probably should tell him to stop writing books and citing frauds.