Evangelical Left Targets Israel


Anti-Israel activists rightly see American evangelicals as key to U.S. support for Israel. That is why they are targeting evangelicals with messages of pro-Palestinian solidarity as supposedly central to Christian compassion. A new evangelical film, “With God on Our Side,” is coming out this month to rebut pro-Israel Christians and persuade them to champion the Palestinian cause.

“You’ll be told that as you travel to Israel that it’s just too dangerous to take you to some of these places,” a narrator warns ominously in the film trailer.  “But that is rhetoric that is employed in order to keep you on the tourist trail. “

The film’s purpose, as its producer explains, is to take American Christians off the metaphorical tourist trail of their narrow pro-Israel stance and instead wade them into embittered Palestinian communities where supposedly they will learn the truth about the who is really to blame.

Liberal evangelist Tony Campolo hails the film as “informative,” “inspiring,” and “brilliant.”  Emergent Church guru Brian McLaren gushes: “Finally! A look at what Christian Zionism teaches and more importantly, the real implications it has on the people of the Middle East.” World Vision (a major evangelical relief group) Vice President Steven Haas commends the film’s “sound theology” and calls it “one of the clearest assessments of the struggle between Palestinians and Jews, and a US Church largely unaware of their complicity in the current conflict.”

A Middle Eastern voice exclaims during the film’s trailer:

“Palestinian Christians lived here for centuries in this land.  Suddenly they meet Christian groups of people who say you are obstacles to the second coming of Jesus.  You need to move out to make room for the Jewish diaspora to come here.”

Here, of course, is the simplistic stereotype about pro-Israel evangelicals the film hopes to perpetuate. American evangelicals self-servingly only support Israel because a Jewish presence there is central to their bloody thirsty, apocalyptic dreams about the Second Coming.  The film soothingly implores evangelicals to consider a nicer path.

“There is the path of deep compassion and mercy and justice and peace,” offers one voice in the film trailer.  “Or there is the tradition of Berlin Walls being built and excluding people who are not of us.”  So it’s really very simple.  Support the apartheid-like, Jewish wall-builders, or stand with the persecuted Palestinians.  Of course, their persecution is faulted not just on Israel, but also the United States, especially its evangelicals.

“We as evangelicals have endorsed an Israeli domestic policy that has placed over 3 million people under military occupation, creating the largest refugee population in the world,” the film trailer opines.  “ Why is this defended by the Christian church?  How is it we don’t see it as suffering of some people?”  A Middle Eastern voice adds:  “The way we hear Christian Zionism here is [that] to accept this theology is to commit suicide as a people group.”

Here is the film’s main message to evangelicals, especially to young people.  The Old Religious Right crassly imposed a pro-Israel U.S. foreign policy based on its end-times theology, creating untold suffering among largely innocent Palestinians.   More thoughtful, more compassionate evangelicals will reject that heritage and instead stand with the Palestinians as the victim group most needing Christian compassion.

The new mythology that the Evangelical Left hopes to perpetuate about the Middle East is just as loaded as the politically charged theology that all pro-Israel evangelicals are alleged to have.   In essence, the Evangelical Left is largely adopting the old Religious Left’s Liberation Theology view of the Middle East, in which the Palestinians are the impoverished Third World victims, while Israel and the U.S. are the imperialists.   The thirst by Evangelical Left groups to leave the “tourist path” and visit with purportedly more authentic Palestinian communities is mostly a rehash of the old Religious Left’s infatuation with the Sandinista experiment in Nicaragua in the 1980’s.  “Oh, you must you there and see for yourselves,” they  insisted then as they insist today.  “The reality is so very different from what our government and other vested interests in America will tell you.”

Supposedly, Palestinian hosts, like pro-Sandinista Nicaraguan hosts of 25 years ago, will perform like the Oracle of Delphi, clarifying reality, and blowing away the deceptive fog of Western colonialism.   “I was brought up in a Christian home…and we were always taught to support Israel, and really Israel was synonymous with Israel in the Bible,” explains film producer Porter Speakman.  But as he has since learned since his enlightenment, “As a Christian, a lot of our theology helps to perpetuate a lot of the human rights (abuses) and injustice that is happening.”  Expecting resistance to his film, he warns:  “It’s a perspective that many people don’t want others to hear.”

The film interviews Ben White, an anti-Israel British journalist,  Stephen Sizer, a Church of England priest and anti-Israel author who infamously has taken his message to Iran,  Gary Burge, a professor at evangelical Wheaton College outside Chicago who is a critic of pro-Israel evangelicals, and Salim Munayer, a  professor at Bethlehem Bible College, which markets Palestinian Liberation Theology.

“When you begin to tell the Palestinian narrative you get accused of all kinds of things including anti-Semitism, which are not at all justified,” White warns.  “It’s  immensely humiliating to Palestinians, saying to them they are not valid voice, [in] a struggle over land that is about them as a people.”

Munayer pleads for more American evangelical concerns about self-image.  “You need  to understand how American Christians have been perceived by Middle Easterners,” he warns.  “ We stand for wars, we want to be richer, we don’t care for the poor, we want only our interests, we stand for moral values that stand for our desires.  We stand for power and not stand for peace.”  Munayer reports that Muslims often ask him why American Christians “hate” Muslims.  “Why do Christians want us to move out of our home and not stand for what is right and just,” they purportedly ask him.   Does Munayer ever ask his Muslim interlocutors what compromises of self-interest they are willing to make for peace?

In a glowing review for Sojourners, former evangelical relief agency executive Tom Getman enthused about the film: “With God on Our Side signals a hope that Christian Zionists will change through the persuasive voices of progressive Christians and Jews,” while positing that “that support of Israel ‘right or wrong’ is an adopted formula of world Christian empire that actually threatens Israel’s survival.”  Echoing the film, he asked:  “Can the Bible be used to justify crimes against humanity? Can the kingdom of God possibly be realized by violent dispossession?”

“With God on Our Side” wants increased U.S. pressure on Israel to accommodate Palestinian demands, facilitated by reduced U.S. evangelical support for Israel.  And the ultimate goal is what?  A Palestinian state based on the unstable 1967 borders and ruled by Islamists like Hamas or kleptocratic secularists like Fatah?   Or is it to dismantle Israel altogether in favor of a single nation, where an unrestricted “right of return” for Palestinians leads to a collapse of Jewish democracy?  How are the dwindling numbers of Palestinian Christians faring under Palestinian rule now, and how would they fare under a victorious new, Islamic-dominated Palestinian state?

Mostly, the Evangelical Left would prefer not to answer these questions, instead preferring guilt trips about supposed evangelical and American imperialist sins, and fantasies about a newly liberated and Christian friendly “Palestine.”   Fortunately, most evangelicals will remain un-persuaded, despite the saccharine appeal of a film like “With God on Our Side.”

  • damon

    Why are you the colonist so afraid of a multi-ethnic DEMOCRACY? Zionist chicken twirlers are a blight on humanity. A Racist Democracy? What a disgusting joke. Very ignorant slanted article. And yes sorry to be rude but your nutty religious FABLES and traditions are a bit disgusting (lose the funny hats ( flat one and Dick Tracey one) and long food stained beards). Seriously, give the people back their land and make amends. I don't want to wipe you off the map, just a little justice and decency.

    • Tom W.

      I wrote a 3 part response just for people like you! Uh…a multi-ethnic democracy just like in Lebanon–cough…cough!

      Nowhere in the Middle East under a Muslim majority has there every been an equal rights multi-ethnic democracy! Please read my posts OK–you're a lefty romanticizing idiot who doesn't know the true ways of the Muslim! So please give us all a break with your pie in the sky multi-ethnic democracy crap! You want it so badly, go to any country in Arabia and give your humanity a try–I'd like to see just how far you could get before either being killed or getting tossed out of Arabia on your ass! Arabs are still a multi-tribal society and they still can't get along…so you were saying? Yes, I'd really love to hear you tell the Hashemites that live in Jordan to go back to Arabia to kiss and make up with the Saudis. So smart ass until you can pass that diplomatic feat, your opinion means absolutely nothing to me!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Paddyjdonovan Paddyjdonovan

      You are so woefully inadequate it's pathetic. " Lets all run down by the chocolate river and sit on marshmallow benches and sip cherry lemonade from the fountains ". Idealism is great for a 13 year old. Are you 13? Look at the practical reality of what goes on there and has for hundreds ( and hundreds ) of years. They had a chance for their " piece of land " and they TURNED IT DOWN. Please, read history before you bring your whiny " we are the world " crap in here. This is a forum for men and women to debate. Grown men and women.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

      Is your first name "Matt", by any chance? …

    • Sandra

      ah right judging from the replies we have

      ahh but they are worse than us replies

      yes the status was called dhimma

      stange how people such as these who believe israel is a democracy are so vocal in trying to take one little step up from the oppression of another society

      great your one better than a set of people who haven't yet embraced democracy………

      oh and your one huge problem in why they wouldn't

      because why should they when OUR democracy forced them to give up thier rightful ownership of thier land for a 2000 year old claim

      can't say our behaviour has been very democratic when it came to palestine

      or some of the other stuff we have done in middle east……

      gosh don't we support a few dictators over there as well

      oh and haven't we overthrown a few democratically elected leaders about the place

      oh and didn't we supply a few people with nasty stuff when it suited us

      or is that just my imagination ;-)

      mmmm glass house come to mind……that and throwing stones

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      Dear Damon: A Zaionist answering you with "Nowhere in the Middle East under a Muslim majority"… is just repeating the same lie to promote Zionist fascism. I am a Kurd and have problem with Turkish nationalism, but I prefer Turkey's democracy hundred times to of Israel. Turkey had problem with generals, but the current Turkish government is holding them responsible for their violation of laws. I live in the USA and enjoy great freedom, yet I find Turkish media and democracy much diverse and open than the one in the USA. Unfortunately the media in the USA is under the monopoly of a cabal.

    • Liny

      To Damon: I hope you come back and read this blog again. Seriously now, how could any self-respecting Christian support a pro Palestinian cause? I am an evangelical and know there are many churches out there that teach Replacement Theology so this article does not surprise me. Everyone needs to educate themselves about the history of the state of Israel. Nearly all Palestinians are of Egyptian or Jordanian descent. Even that scum Arafat admitted to being born in Egypt. So where's the proof they are entitled to even one speck of Israel? They are nothing but thugs who teach their children from a young age to hate and murder Jews.

    • Palmdtree

      Why don't you start by giving back the land to the Indians of America?

  • damon

    Oh I just realized what Magazine this is – Zionist version of "Boys Life". FrontPage your biased reputation precedes you. Horrorwitz + Dershowits = 2 Dimwits.
    The Great Roman Seige Machine of American Elightened Public Opinion is approaching your mountain fortress.
    You must get a lot of unsavory mail- maybee an elightenment is in order.

    • Tom W.

      Oh-I just realized that you're a Jew hater…oh how unique, there just aren't enough people in the world like you!

      Sarcasm off: I'm tired of repeating myself so, just above your post is an opinion made by damon, first read my response to him (my answer goes for your attitude as well) and then read my 3 part post then reply!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

      Is "enlightenment" the equivalent of "The Holocaust", by any chance, Matt?

    • Robert

      Y'know, I hate the idea of calling someone an antisemite because they aren't fans of the State of Israel. But in your case, Damon, I make an exception. I'm not sur if it was your comment about the "food-stained beards", the "funny hats" or your clear distaste for Jews in general. But man, you make Louis Farrakhan loom like a Zionist.

      Aside from your clear lack of historical knowledge, it would seem even if you had a clue, it wouldn't matter. You hate Jews, period. Perhaps it was inherited from your parents, or maybe a Jewish girl rejected you. I don't know. Based on your writing ability, I can't imagine many girls would be interested in you anyway.

      My hope for you – and it doesn't really matter if I'm Jewish, or Christian – if I'm evangelical or a Zionist, or even an Atheist – my hope is that you actually read a history book. And not one recommended by Stormfront, or the Arab press.

      Or, you can continue to be the ignorant, antisemitic piece of crap you've shown to be here.

  • Andrea

    As a Jew living in Israel, I can tell you we already lived in a "mulitcultural democracy" (where we were a minority) – it was called Germany. We lived in a theocracy called Spain, a sultancy called Persia, under the Romans in Judea and Israel, in the Polish kingdom and in Hungarian and Austrian Empires, to name just a few. Didn't work. Got slaughtered, mass-murdered, disenfranchised, disowned, kicked out, and sent out to wander the world. We are in Israel; we are not leaving; we are not going to become a minority in our own land in the name of "multicultural democracy" or to satisfy some Christian's idea of justice. The Palestinians will either learn how to share this land and rid themselves of their dream to throw us out of Israel, or we will fight them to the bloody end.

    • http://www.islamicreform.org Edip Yuksel

      If power intoxicate you like the current Zionist fascist regime has been behaving, then it explains why you have been wondering around the world. You better become a peacemaker, a righteous Jew, rather than an arrogant rabid Zionist. Zionists are the enemies of Jewish people and they are working hard in committing atrocities to generate more hatred from around the globe. Wake up and take a lesson from history. Neither the USA-Inc nor the wrong-wing Evangelical Christians will support you forever. One day you will lose that support and you will pay for your evil deeds. Zionists are the number one enemies of Jewish people. Peacemakers unite.

    • Robin

      Andrea,

      As a Jew in the US, You are 100% correct. I will continue to battle here for my Brothers and Sister in OUR HOMELAND! As things get worse for us here, because of Omaba and his stub of Israel to please the Arabs that want us all DEAD! I do not understand the other gentelman's comment at al. This is about US having a place tio go, it is our home and sould be protected!

      Shalom,
      Robin

  • Tom W.

    Proof of History Part 2

    Now ever since the French partitioned Syria due to it’s feeling of solidarity with the Christian Maronites, slowly but surely the Muslims have overwhelmed the Christians through periods of violence. This has caused such a continual exodus of Christians that Lebanon is now being populated and politically run through a Muslim majority! OK, so for all you people who say that Israel should be dismantled in favour of a single Palestinian state, just take a look at the violent hell that Lebanon has gone through in just the past 62 years alone (Israel has only been in existence since 1948)! A single Palestine state would be unstable, all the Islamic factions will first be united to drive out the Jews then they’ll have a civil war to kill each other off for supremacy!

    I have to laugh at those anti-Semites that know nothing of history, before the 1948 war that created Israel, the town of Bethlehem was 95 percent Christian. Before the 1948 war the last British census in Jerusalem had a little over 28,000 Christian Arabs, remember that due to the war, the Jordanians occupied the West Bank (kicked out all the Jews) and took half of Jerusalem, thus that’s why there’s something now called Arab East Jerusalem because the Muslims kicked out all the Jews from that part of the city. Shortly after the 1967 war, the Israelis took a census of Christians still left in East Jerusalem, there were only about 11,000—that means approximately 60% of Arab Christians left Jerusalem that was under Jordanian occupation! And for the city of Bethlehem remember that 95% number it, well it kept on dwindling then after the Jews liberated it more Christians came back but the leftists supporters screamed and boycotted their way into the Israelis transferring power to the PA (the Palestinian Authority under Arafat) in the mid-1990’s. Under PA control the West Bank’s Christian population in total has dwindled down to under 3 percent! And in Bethlehem, it like Lebanon is now in under Muslim control with a Muslim majority and a Christian population with less than 10 percent!

    • Sandra

      funny thats not what I am reading….seems there a fair few christians blame the israelis for needing to leave thier homes

      The causes of this Christian exodus are hotly debated, with various possibilities put forth.[14] Most Palestinian Christians blame the Christian Exodus from the Holy Land on Israel. [31] Reuters has reported that the emigrants left for better living standards rather than any other reason.[15] The BBC has also blamed the economic decline in the Palestinian Territories as well as pressure from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the exodus.[2] A report on Bethlehem residents stated both Christians and Muslims wished to leave but the Christians possessed better contacts with people abroad and higher levels of education.[32]

      An opposing view holds that Muslim fundamentalist pressure against Christians has played a role.[14] For example, public use of the political slogan "After Saturday comes Sunday" (abel es-sabbat jibel-ahad)– meaning that "after the fundamentalists finish the Jews, they'll deal with the Christians"– is cited.[33][34][35] The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies issued a report in May 2005 blaming Islamic pressure for the exodus, stating that "Christian cemeteries have been destroyed, monasteries have seen their phone lines cut, and convents have been broken into".[16] But Palestinian Christians deny this, and continue to insist that Muslim-Christian relations in the Holy Land are great, and there is no persecution against Christians from their "Palestinian Muslim brothers". [36]

      The Jerusalem Post has stated that the "shrinking of the Palestinian Christian community in the Holy Land came as a direct result of its middle-class standards" and that Muslim pressure has not played a major role according to Christian residents themselves. It reported that the Christians have an public image of elitism and of class privilege as well as of non-violence and of open personalities, which leaves them more vulnerable to criminals than Muslims. Hanna Siniora, a prominent Palestinian human rights activist, has attributed harassment against Christians to "little groups" of "hoodlums" rather than to the Hamas and Fatah governments.[14]

      In a 2006 poll of Christians in Bethlehem by the Palestinian Centre for Research and Cultural Dialogue, 90% reported having Muslim friends, 73.3% agreed that the Palestinian Authority treats Christian heritage in the city with respect, and 78% attributed the ongoing exodus of Christians from Bethlehem to the Israeli travel restrictions on the area.[37] Daniel Rossing, the Israeli Ministry of Religious Affairs' chief liaison to Christians in the 1970s and 1980s, has stated that the situations for them in Gaza became much worse after the election of Hamas. He also stated that the Palestinian Authority, which counts on Christian Westerners for financial support, treats the minority fairly. He blamed the West Bank barrier wall as the primary problem for the Christians.[14]

      The United States State Department's 2006 report on religious freedom criticized both Israel for its restrictions on travel to Christian holy cites and the Palestinian Authority for its failure to stamp out anti-Christian crime. It also reported that the former gives preferential treatment in basic civic services to Jews and the latter does so to Muslims. The report stated that, generally, the ordinary Muslim and Christian citizens enjoy good relations in contrast to the "strained" Jewish and non-Jewish relations.[5] A 2005 BBC report described Muslim and Christian relations as "peaceful" as well.[2]

    • Sandra

      Before the 1948 war the last British census in Jerusalem had a little over 28,000 Christian Arabs

      oh and i believe the estimated number of christians who fled the advancing israeli army in 1948 war was around 50%

      ehh so that means that israel is mainly responsible for the depopulation of christians in Jeruslem

      or were you just going to hide those figure when discussing population statistic covering just before 1948 to 1967

      nothing about how many christians fled the israeli army in 1948……

      • Tom W.

        Excuse but where the hell did you get your damn statistics? Please answer! What you are saying is complete bullsh*t! Where did these Christians go? Please answer right away other wise you're a damn propagandists of lies!

        Christians did not flee from the Israelis–idiot! In the founding of the Jewish State, the Israeli government urged all Arabs (that's Arabs idiots–they made no distinction between Muslims and Christians) to stay in there homes! Any Arabs that fled did so because the Arab governments told them to get the hell out of Israel because they were coming in to slaughter the Jews! Once the Jews were dead, all the Arabs planned on coming back in (both Muslims and Christians). Therefore those Arabs that fled are guilty of being willing accomplices to a possible second Jewish Holocaust had the Jews not held some territory that created the Israeli State. The Arabs that stayed in their homes were welcomed as free and equal citizens! If the Jews were slaughtered and all the Arabs flooded back in, Palestine would had been worse than Lebanon–why? Because the person who wanted to be installed as leader or king or take whatever title he wanted was the Mufti of Jerusalem. He was the person who gave Hitler the idea of Germany conquering Palestine, installing himself as the leader and for the Nazis to build death camps in Palestine to finish off the Jews!

        That was just the beginning of this monster's vision of the world. He was responsible for creating a Nazi SS unit of Bosnian Muslims. This unit collaborated with the Nazis in rounding up all the Yugoslavian Jews and aided in the deportation of the Jews to death camps. But most of all this unit was known for its atrocities against the Serbs. This bastard (the Mufti) if he ran Palestine would have massacred the Christian Arabs without giving it a thought just as his mini Bosnian Muslim Nazis unit did to the Serbs. So you were saying what again? I forgot because lies are so easily forgotten among the facts of history!

    • Sandra

      oh how about christian churches destroyed by israelis

      1. The Hospice “Notre Dame de France,” a large part of which was destroyed as a result of the Jewish occupation.

      2. The Convent of Reparatrice Sisters was set on fire and almost completely destroyed.

      3. The tower and church of the Monastery of the Benedictine Fathers were damaged as a result of having been occupied.

      4. The Seminary of Ste. Anne was hit by two mortar bombs: the first on May 17, 1948, the second on May 19, 1948, destroying walls and wounding the refugees sheltered therein.

      5. The church of St. Constantine and Helena which is contiguous to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was damaged on May 17,1948, by a bomb, the fragments of which damaged also the dome of the Holy Sepulchre.

      6. The Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was hit by about one hundred mortar bombs thrown by Zionists from the Monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Sion, and the bombs damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangels Convent and their two churches, their two Elementary and Seminary schools and their library. Eight persons among the refugees were killed and 120 wounded.

      7. The entrance to the church of St. Mark belonging to the Syrian Orthodox, received on May 17, 1948 a mortar shell killing the monk Peter Saymy, secretary to the Bishop, and wounding two other persons.

      8. The Convent of St. George of the Greek Orthodox which is contiguous to the Greek Catholic Cathedral received on May 18,1948 a mortar shell breaking the tiles and damaging the windows of the cathedral.

      9. The convent of St. John of the Greek Orthodox, contiguous to the Basilica of the Holy Sepulchre, received on its roof a mortar shell on May 23,1948, and St. Abraham convent nearby was hit as well as St. Spiridon Convent.

      10. The Convent of the Archangel belonging to the Coptic Patriarchate, situated over the grotto of the Holy Cross, forming part of the Basilica of the Holy Sepulchre, received on May 23, 1948 a mortar shell damaging its roof.

      11. The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate was hit by mortar shells on May 23 and 24, 1948, wounding many refugees sheltered therein.

      12. The big Franciscan convent (St. Saviour) situated near the Holy Sepulchre received mortar shells on May 19,23,24, and 28, 1948, causing damage to the orphanage, general secretariat, and hitting nearby houses, killing and wounding children sheltered therein.

      13. The Latin Patriarchate received on May 23,26,27 and 28, 1948, mortar shells causing damage to the Patriarchal Palace, especially to the Cathedral.

      14. The Greek Catholic Patriarchate was hit by mortar bombs on May 16 and 29,1948, damaging the building and wounding some persons.

      oh and silly me i forgot to include the christian villiages destroyed in 1948………most of them would have had a church…yah.

      ok I go search through the 400 villages that were utterlly wiped out

      • Tom W.

        Idiot! That's all I can say! You are quoting me war damage from 1948 and not only that but damage to Christian sites! You quote a bomb landed here…and there–it's meaningless statistics because the Arab armies had all the artillery!

        That's right! And that's why I say you're an idiot because I can give you more references (especially in books not referenced on the Internet) that give a complete blow by blow description of the Arab-Israeli war in 1948! I can give you a rundown of the weaponry the Jews had versus the airplanes, mini tanks, armored vehicles, mortars, guns and the amount (and type of) bullets the Arabs were equipped with. But the bottom line is that the Jews never have and still never do intentionally target any religious sites (Muslim or Christian) in war.

        It was a tactically gamble that the Arabs deliberately shelled Christian houses of worship, in order to get the world's sympathy on their side by claiming the Jews had done these dastardly acts of destruction. Please tell me, oh master of military tactics to what value was it for the Jews to intentionally shell Christian religious sites? Sun Tzu, who literally wrote the book on warfare laid down the rules of war based on the tactics of: deception, hitting you enemy where he is most vulnerable, when to attack, knowing when not to go to war, etc. However, the Arabs when it comes to fighting Jews are always making false claims against the Jews! The Arabs (in 1948) also dressed up in disguise as women in order to ambush Jewish soldiers and destroyed their own Arab villages of so-called collaborators in order to blame it on the Jews. And these tactics still continue to this very day with the staged setting of massacres in Jenin, the Arabs dug up bodies in cemeteries and even used the bones of the dead and scattered all this fake evidence in order to convince the world that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) committed war crimes! The IDF had evidence from aerial drones of staged dead bodies being carried on stretchers only to prove that moments later these dead people got off the stretchers and ran away with these phony stretcher-bearers! The latest phony set of war crimes allegations by Arabs against the IDF has been made in to a blood libel called the Goldstone Report. But all accusations come from a just a few Arab sources, which in fact the report mentions the intentionally firing on these locations by the IDF can't be proven ! It's no different than the damages you quote in you post Sandra, in Gaza the IDF responded to the sources of rocket fire. However, all those places (schools, mosques, an U.N compound) that the few accusers of the Goldstone Report report that the IDF hit, were NOT done intentionally by the IDF to deliberately kill civilians! Again why would the IDF accurately (and intentionally) fire on these locations, you mean to just civilians? The IDF has shown in each case that terrorists were using those locations for launching rockets into Israel!

        OK Sandra? That's why I call you an idiot because the 1948 damage (you quote) done to Christian religious sites and Christian villages held no logically tactically advantage for the Jews destroy and attack; only if the enemy was using these location first to fire at Jews does it hold an military logic to attack these sites. Also the Jews were being attacked by 6 regular Arab national armies as well as many other groups of irregular Arab militias. The Jews couldn't afford to waste the little ammo they had to destroy non-tactically landmarks! The Jews were under constant attack, the only real defensive action they used was to attack the places where armed Arabs were firing on Jews–that's all. The Arabs had all the military hardware to shell the Jews and all these bombs hitting Christian religious sites were done deliberately to frame the Jews! But of course you're not into logic based on facts–oh no not you–you're into believing the blood libels of Arabs because it's easier for you to swallow! And that's why you're an idiot!

  • Tom W.

    Proof of History Part 3

    So the bottom-line folks is that in the Middle East, even when foreign governments have tinkered with the borders in favour of the Christians, the Muslims by force of violence have always overwhelmed the Christians resulting in the majority of Christians leaving! OK, so now based on these damn leftists who say they want to protect the so-called Palestinian Christians—have you not learned from history yet? Or better yet have you not learned from your own history of demonizing the Jews and your romanticizing the idea of a Palestinian state run by Arafat’s PA! So in good faith, the Israelis gave into your little fiction and belief that in deed that there is a Palestinian people who could run a peaceful state…sigh—see how good that turned out to be! History repeated itself just as in Lebanon, first the Muslims united to drive out the Christians by force than the Muslims turned against each other! Once the PA had authority over Gaza and the majority of the West Bank (Jewish areas were and still are under Israeli control), the first Palestinian civil war occurred in the Gaza Strip whereby Hamas in a violent coup ran out Arafat’s Fatah. Now Fatah is in the West Bank and Hamas is Gaza and Israel is in the Middle.

    And yet—what? The leftists are still yelling to divide more of Israel in favour of whom again? The damn Muslims! When the hell are these leftists going to stop romanticizing that peace can breakout if the Jews hand over even more land and even more control to the Muslims! Uh—nothing is any different in Israel than has been tried in Lebanon. And regarding protecting the last remaining Christians—wow, you leftists are stupid, at least under Israeli control Christians are protected, are citizens, have equal rights under the law, have Jewish national medical care…need I go on? Please research what the Christian went through under Jordanian occupation, OK—Christians were 2nd class citizens. The Muslims made life very difficult for them but go ahead and research yourself rather than me giving you a history lesson. But the bottom-line for any leftists still now attempting to romanticize fighting the evil Zionists in favour of protecting Christians; once again you’ve got the world upside down! The Muslims are the evil ones and the Jews are the only party in the Middle East giving Christians security and equality—so tell me again…why are the Zionists evil? Oh yes, finally research the dwindling numbers of Christians in Iraq since the overthrow of Saddam’s regime, there’s nobody protecting the Christians. So just like in Lebanon, Muslims united in driving out the Christians and then the Muslims turned their guns on each other!

    You leftists and your damn la-de-dah romanticizing via your fellow traveler ideology make me sick!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Paddyjdonovan Paddyjdonovan

      It's like banging your head against a wall, isn't it, Tom. Remember, reason and facts play no part in the lefty playbook

    • Sandra

      romanticizing

      nah

      Beit-Nuba, Emmaus, and Yalu are Christian villages destroyed by israel

      just a few of the many…….but hey the majority of the 400 were Muslims so am sure according to your history you'd rather they just disapeared

      but please do us a favour and don't dare play israel a christian friendly…….they were just as happy to destroy church as mosque as village as people

      it was all about land……..and gaining it….always has been always will be

      • Tom W.

        I already made a complete response against these fu*king charges that IDF intentionally fires on religious and civilian locations during war–read it above, under your long laundry list of damage to Christian religious sites.

        Sandra–go fu*k yourself!! And if you are a Christian and you are so found of the Arabs than move to any region of the world under Muslim control, including Hamas controlled Gaza and West Bank under the control of Fatah. OK–it's that simple! If you seriously believe what you are saying that the Jews are evil and intentionally have shelled and destroyed Christian religious sites than you're an anti-Semite of the worst kind. Because you not only hate Jews but you're so eager to believe the false accusations of the Muslims; the very same Muslims who ironically have made life hell for Christians throughout the Middle East region.

        I'm not stopping you–prove me wrong, go to Lebanon and ask the Christians how they like living under Muslim majority rule. Go to Gaza and do the same in the West Bank, especially go to Bethlehem and ask the remaining Christian populace what the life is like under Fatah rule. Go ahead do that–then and only then respond back to me because until then, all you're doing is spouting back the written record by history revisionist propagandists (who have their own agenda)!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

    I wonder which lie they peddle next. Israelis kill innocent civilians
    http://eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com/2010/04/boy-
    http://samsonblinded.org/news/19-arabs-shot-in-is
    or Israelis are land thieves? Or the Palestinians are starving?
    http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=21265

  • poptoy

    I would never fool with the GOD of Israel. If they want to..well go on ahead. Do not expect a happy outcome. Leave the JEWS and Israel be.

  • Tom W.

    Proof of History Part 1

    The proof of history is against this insipid argument of supporting Christians in the Middle East; the greatest example is the French over their post World War I Mandate over Syria. The Syrian Christian Maronite’s were the cause celebre for the French, as a result of Muslim harassment, the French split Syria into 2 peaces (very much like the British cut off 80% of their mandate over Palestine and gave it to the Hashemites): Syria and Lebanon. Now—so people won’t criticize my math, I’ll prove to you that Lebanon is approximately only 5% of the complete French mandated territory of Syria. Syria is 185,180 square km (kilometers), Lebanon is 10,452 square km, add up 185,180 + 10,452 gives you a total of 195,632 square km, 10,452 divided by 195,632 gives you 0.053426842 and multiply that by 100 gives you 5.34 percent!

    So in 1926 France created the Lebanese Republic, the name Lebanon is based on the area where most these Christian Maronite’s were living, around Mount Lebanon. The Christians were the majority and in 1943, Lebanon became an independent country, previous it was still be administered by the French. So to make a long story short, how did that turn out? Like crap! Because the Muslims in Syria wanted their territory back and the minority Muslims in Lebanon conspired with Syrian nationalist to foment violence against the Lebanese Christians. Since that time there has never been peace in Lebanon, the Muslims have gone on orgies of violence including massacres against the Christians; everything culminated with the Lebanese civil war beginning in the middle 1970’s. However just research it for yourself, the history and time line of political assassinations in Lebanon since 1926. You call that political stable?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/houtex77 houtex77

    And in the latter days they will no endure sound doctrine. This is typical of replacement theology which ignores dispensational truth. God gave the land to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There has NEVER been a Palestinian nation. Look around people, the signs of the very soon return of Christ Jesus are everywhere. Notwithstanding earthquakes, floods, famines, disease, wars and rumors of wars, but the nations prophecised long ago………Russia, Iran, and Turkey are all set to attempt to wipe out Israel. They will be destroyed.

    • lorsarah

      hout, don't you think it's time you actually read your Bible and put down the sensationalistic end-times books and stopped listening to the sensationalistic, unbiblical "sermons" that your itching ears would like to hear?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/richq11 richq11

    Isn't "evangelical left" an oxymoron? These are just people with an antipathy toward orthodox Christianity, Judaism or anyone who believes in God, for that matter. The problem is that they are taken seriously. They are the quintessential haters. Liberation theology is no theology at all- it's a political movement fomented by Marxists and other neo-fascists. This movie is merely a political ploy designed to undermine Israel's sovereignty disguised as credible journalism. The Palestinians we the first jihadists, not some aggreived minority.

    • lorsarah

      So Dispensationalism is now considered Orthodox Christianity, according to you?

      You neither know your history nor the Bible. Dispensationalism is a MUCH NEWER belief, and an unBiblical, dangerous theology at that. If any theology could be considered "liberal," Dispensationalism is that.

      Orthodox Christianity dates back to the Bible and holds the Biblical belief that there is ONLY ONE people of God (Romans 11:24), NOT TWO (as Dispies believe).

      Try reading your Bible and praying for wisdom. You'll be amazed at what you find if you would do that earnestly.

  • marge

    It about time that chritians who believe in Jesus stop supporting Israel and spread the truth about its apartheid system, and crimes against the Palestinians. No other people in modern history, not even the Jews in Nazi Germany, have been treated as badly as the Palestinians for the past 40 +years. True, there was slavery in the US for about 300 years but slaves were considered an asset and provided with survival necessities. No slave children were targeted and killed in the US, not even by the KKK. Israel deliberately kills Palestinians children to cause the greatest pain and suffering on the Palestinian people to force them to leave their land.

    Its time for christians to stop giving Israel donations to support its brutal occupation of the Palestinians and land stealing. Jesus preached that the innocent and weak should be protected. Palestinians are weak and have no way of defending themselves against Israel, the 4th most powerful military in the world with the unconditional support of the worlds superpower, the USA. The world needs to recognize Israel for what it is, not a democracy but an apartheid, racist, terrorist state that is trying to force Palestinians and Israeli Arabs to leave their land through violence.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

      Well, that didn't take long. Some dhimmi fool already trotting out the usual lies.

      • Hamilton

        I wonder if she even has a clue as to what dhimmi status is. If not she is a dhimwit.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Rifleman Rifleman

          She even defends slavery to stick up for her terrorist buds and bust on Israel.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

            Amazing, eh?

    • maryann

      Who, exactly is oppressing the Palestinian people? Is Israel not surrounded by Arab countries that could take in the poor Palestinians? And yet they have refused to do just that for decades. They are oppressing their own people to keep alive the hatred of Jews and Israel. Their one and only goal is the destruction of Israel. One does not need to be a Christian to know the history of "Palestine". You also might want to re-visit the history of slavery and the Ku Klux Klan.

    • BS1977

      Marge, you are an idiot….take a long walk on a short pier you steaming pile of hate and lies.

    • interact

      Marge – you and the Obamanation we call 'el presidente" need to get your heads out from where the sun doesn't shine. Should the time come when those of your ilk cry for help or forgiveness for total stupidity – I will be on my sailboat – adios amiga

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      Marge peace be on you. You are a true follower of the message of peace and justice delivered by Jesus. I hope that our Jewish brothers and sisters realize that the arrogant and fascist Zionist regime is hurting them greatly. The world is witnessing their atrocities, aggression, and racist policy against Pals. I am glad that finally, progressive evangelicals are standing up against Zionist propaganda. Peace be with you. Peacemakers of the world unite. I invite you to read the last section of my recent book, Manifesto for Islamic Reform, which is also available online at: http://www.islamicreform.org

      • Tom W.

        What atrocities? Please respond! How is Zionism fascist? Islam is having a resurgence of the worst kind via extremist ideology! The world isn't being attack by Jews! Only Muslims are attacking Europe, Russia and the United States. All beefed up security measures in Western ports, borders and airports are strictly due at trying to prevent Islamic terrorism! Jews aren't being supported by Israel to build synagogues in every country and convert everyone to Judaism. But the Saudis are financially backing fundamental Islamic schools and mosques that are being built throughout the Western world as well as Africa and Asia. This Saudi school of thought preaches fundamental Islam, meaning the world must submit to Allah or be killed! I don't have to keep on spoon feeding you, you know the truth but your hatred of Jews has caused you to have tunnel vision.

        Islam is racists, is tribal, is against women being seen as equal, is for the execution of gays, is against men and women basically socializing in public (that's why many young Muslim men get sexually frustrated and express their feelings through blaming Jews for everything and have sex on the down-low) and is against every value you probably hold sacred!

        The only reason why you've become blind to all that Islam stands for is because Islam hates 'The Jew' as you do but that blindness will only lead to your death in the long run. Because Islam allows lying and deception to non-Muslims if it advances the faith so once Muslims have used you up as a tool to advance their goal to destroy Israel, they soon be coming for you. Then who will be on your side? Nobody–your only choice then will be to either submit to Islam and convert or to be executed!

        You talk of arrogance–wow, take a look in the mirror!!

      • Tom W.

        Last thing, I just clicked on your link, wow-what a hypocrite! First you were an extremist following the path of the Muslim Brotherhood, you've been in prison, you're in exile, your books have be banned, etc.

        Wow–and after all that, you still have the fu*king nerve to label Israel as a fascist Zionist regime–you're mentally sick! All your personal problems are directly related to living under Islam! So screw you! By the way, you know that you're a complete hypocrite calling yourself an apostate when you're still able to spew the exact and I mean the exact propaganda of Islamic hate against the Jews! If you really are an apostate then you should able to come out and say that Muhammad was a monster, he killed Arabian Jews, stole their property, sold some as slaves and kicked the rest out of Arabia. If Muhammad was a mad man than the Jews were not evil and don't deserve the demonization of my fellow Muslims. But you don't see the Jews that way, thus you aren't an apostate!

        Jews are only evil and deserve the kind of twisted comment you posted above from only those people who have been indoctrinated by their religion that opposes Judaism. If you're truly an apostate of Islam then you would feel repentant for what Muslims have done to the Jews! Because if you're a true apostate of Islam then you would know that until Muhammad heard voices and went of a orgy of violence, Arabian Jews lived in peace! In fact, only the various Arabian tribes fought each other over property (fertile land, water wells, etc.) and they only made peace once a year in a ceremony around the kabba, where each tribe housed their idols (gods that were good luck to the tribe). Until the advent of Muhammad's Islam, the Jews were not demonized nor seen as evil by the Arabs.

        So think about that for awhile and then take off that bit of nonsense on your website that you're an apostate! If you really want to be an apostate, you have a hell of a long road ahead of you in self-discovery before you can even earn the title of being an apostate from Islam. Until your filthy mind is released from years of indoctrination then to me based on your posting, you will might be that of an apostate but you mind and rational thought is still that of a Muslim!

        Think about that for a good long while!

      • Tom W.

        What atrocities? Please respond! How is Zionism fascist? Islam is having a resurgence of the worst kind via extremist ideology! The world isn't being attack by Jews! Only Muslims are attacking Europe, Russia and the United States. All beefed up security measures in Western ports, borders and airports are strictly due at trying to prevent Islamic terrorism! Jews aren't being supported by Israel to build synagogues in every country and convert everyone to Judaism. But the Saudis are financially backing fundamental Islamic schools and mosques that are being built throughout the Western world as well as Africa and Asia. This Saudi school of thought preaches fundamental Islam, meaning the world must submit to Allah or be killed! I don't have to keep on spoon feeding you, you know the truth but your hatred of Jews has caused you to have tunnel vision.

        Islam is racists, is tribal, is against women being seen as equal, is for the execution of gays, is against men and women basically socializing in public (that's why many young Muslim men get sexually frustrated and express their feelings through blaming Jews for everything and have sex on the down-low) and is against every value you probably hold sacred!

        The only reason why you've become blind to all that Islam stands for is because Islam hates 'The Jew' as you do but that blindness will only lead to your death in the long run. Because Islam allows lying and deception to non-Muslims if it advances the faith so once Muslims have used you up as a tool to advance their goal to destroy Israel, they soon be coming for you. Then who will be on your side? Nobody–your only choice then will be to either submit to Islam and convert or to be executed!

        You talk of arrogance–wow, take a look in the mirror!!

      • Tom W.

        This is Edip Yuskel's website: http://www.yuksel.org/

        This is my response to him:

        wow-what a hypocrite! First you were an extremist following the path of the Muslim Brotherhood, you've been in prison, you're in exile, your books have be banned, etc.

        Wow–and after all that, you still have the fu*king nerve to label Israel as a fascist Zionist regime–you're mentally sick! All your personal problems are directly related to living under Islam! So screw you! By the way, you know that you're a complete hypocrite calling yourself an apostate when you're still able to spew the exact and I mean the exact propaganda of Islamic hate against the Jews! If you really are an apostate then you should able to come out and say that Muhammad was a monster, he killed Arabian Jews, stole their property, sold some as slaves and kicked the rest out of Arabia. If Muhammad was a mad man than the Jews were not evil and don't deserve the demonization of my fellow Muslims. But you don't see the Jews that way, thus you aren't an apostate!

        Jews are only evil and deserve the kind of twisted comment you posted above from only those people who have been indoctrinated by their religion that opposes Judaism. If you're truly an apostate of Islam then you would feel repentant for what Muslims have done to the Jews! Because if you're a true apostate of Islam then you would know that until Muhammad heard voices and went of a orgy of violence, Arabian Jews lived in peace! In fact, only the various Arabian tribes fought each other over property (fertile land, water wells, etc.) and they only made peace once a year in a ceremony around the kabba, where each tribe housed their idols (gods that were good luck to the tribe). Until the advent of Muhammad's Islam, the Jews were not demonized nor seen as evil by the Arabs.

        So think about that for awhile and then take off that bit of nonsense on your website that you're an apostate! If you really want to be an apostate, you have a hell of a long road ahead of you in self-discovery before you can even earn the title of being an apostate from Islam. Until your filthy mind is released from years of indoctrination then to me based on your posting, you will might be that of an apostate but you mind and rational thought is still that of a Muslim!

        Think about that for a good long while!

        PS: Will the real Edip Yuksel please stand-up, the Muslim or the wannabe Islamic apostate!

    • Angela

      #marge
      your post is a satire – I assume.

  • maryann

    Marge, I forgot to mention that taking another look at how the Jews were treated by the Nazis would be a good idea. That anyone could possibly suggest that Israel treats the Palestinians worse than the Jews were treated by Nazi Germany is astounding in its ignorance.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

    Of course, Tony Campolo believes that the film is "inspiring". The guy's a commie. He never saw a "people's liberation movement" he didn't support (except that of the American people from Obamunism).

    This is one evangelical … a Lutheran, with evangelical leanings, and a member of Christians United for Israel … who will never abandon Israel. This is especially so when spokesmen for the film are the likes of Campolo …

  • Adheeb

    Make no mistake about it, Tony Campolo wants your money, he'd like cash but a check will do.

    On the other hand, 78% of voting Jews voted for B.O. in the last election. McCain certainly has proven to be a friend to Israel over the years but B.O. got the Jewiush vote. Well, I guess they wanted change, so now they got it.

  • Mick

    How about the Jews give the land back to the Palestinians when the Arabs give back Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt…and go back to their ancestral homeland – Arabia. Stupid Imperialist Arabs own the entire Middle East. It's time to give back the land!

    • Sandra

      ehh just laffs

      you need to look up where Arabia was

      Half the countries you just mentioned are Arabia

      hehehehe

      • Dune fan

        Ha she can handle simple geography

  • Don R.

    The unspoken linkage. Even Thomas Erskine May, over 100 years ago, and one of the authors of the Constitution of the U.K., described ancient Israel as the birthplace of Christianity, "liberty" and "freedom:"

    "Israel is the country, above all others, which Christendom regards with respect and reverence, as the birthplace of its religion. Its sacred writings are cherished above all the works of human genius. Scholars revel in the masterpieces of Greek and Roman genius: but Christians of every creed, throughout the world, pay homage to the higher inspiration of the Hebrews. . . . That a race more entitled to our reverence than any people of antiquity should have afforded an example of popular freedom, notwithstanding their Eastern origin, and the influence of Eastern despotism, by which they were surrounded, is a conspicuous illustration of the principle that the spirit and intelligence of a people are the foundations of liberty. The Eastern race which was distinguished from its contemporaries by the purest faith, and the highest ideal of morals, afforded also a conspicuous example of freedom."

    http://wikibin.org/articles/moses-as-symbol-in-am

  • jack

    i'm so sick of my tax money going to israel!!!!!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

      But not to Egypt? They get an equal amount. Its fun how I never hear the lefties bitch about their treatment of the indigenous Copts.

      • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

        Copts in Egypt are treated much better than Pals by Zionists. Furthermore, Egypt is ruled by the stooges of the USA-Inc.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

          Is that right?

    • http://www.islamicreform.org Edip Yuksel

      I am the same. Israel is turning our tax money into jets, tanks, bombs, bullets, torture chambers, walls, gestapos… to commit atrocities against an imprisoned population in concentration camps thereby creating more hatred in the world against us. Peace.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

        What do you mean "your tax money"?

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      It is refreshing to hear a Zionist's audacity and contempt. Go ahead and bite the head that is feeding you. I wish AIPAC could repeat your words publicly. Intoxicated with power, perhaps one day they will too repeat your rant.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Rifleman Rifleman

      Then you must be really sick of four times that much money going to the countries surrounding Israel. Or is that okay with you?

  • http://www.howtofinanceyourlife.com Paul Beaird

    A great example of how religious people are swayed by the morality implicit in their theology. Proof that the relilgious argument never stands as a reliable defense of civilization. Is it really going to be the case that only the atheists will be the defenders of Isarel, because it most closely matches Western culture in the Middle East? Thank God for Ayn Rand!

  • Joe

    . The United Nations vote in 1948 came out in favour of Jewish occupancy of Israel.
    And we Evangelicals rejoiced and felt a great sense of relief and elation because we knew from the Bible that God had given that land of Israel to the Jews hundreds of years
    before Islam was started. That was in 1948.
    It is a disgrace to the United Nations organisation that they do not fully support Israel in
    its occupancy of that land. It was now official but the Jews still had to fight for it . The Muslims lived at peace with the Jews until they took notice of the Koran which forbids them from ever abandoning land they have occupied and they began to think they could learn from the Jews and continue to make that land flourish after exiling
    the Jews. But I challenge anyone to name a country that has been caused to flourish and become civilized after falling into the hands of Islam.
    It should always be remembered that Islam is a politico-religious system and is the only religion whose "holy" book requires the death of all non-believers and the establishment of a worldwide Caliphate dictatorship under Sharia law with all its horrors. It must be stopped !!

  • George Taylor

    Evangelical Christians is my tradition and my people. Yet the OCD like fixation on Christs second coming always seems to disregard Mark 13:32.

    “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”

    Why is it that we think we (American very human Christians) can some how hasten Christ’s return by support of foreign government when Christ himself does not no the date or the time.

    I’m no fan of leftist, however the NeoCon alliance with conservative Christian Evangelicals is clearly a coalition of convenience propagated by the NeoCons with very few benefits that I can see for American Christians. The NeoCons fateful foreign policy advice to Bush II has crumbled the traditional conservative foundation created so well by Ronald Reagan. It is time to question unabashed support of Israel and query what it has done for America and the American Christian.

    There is another way for Traditional Conservative Christains http://www.alternativeright.com

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      Peace George. Nice to hear that among right-wing Christians too there are those who feel uncomfortable to be manipulated by the Zionists. Peace.

  • John Phillips

    TO: All Jewish friends in USA and Israel. The so called Chirstian spokesman do not represent American Christians. These pin heads from college campus and denominational headquarters are phony intellectuals and only speak for themselves.

  • JustPassingBy

    Interesting reading… Unfortunately, for all you anti-Israel folks, there will be a day after the next war, that you will see Israel still standing. Sure, they will suffer some casualties, but it will be the surrounding nations that will suffer more/heavier casualties.

    BTW, where have all the hundreds of millions of dollars, which were given to Arafat, gone? I’m sure all them dollars have also been used for missiles, bombs, rockets, etc. Seems like all those organizations care even lees for their own people.

    As for the US administration and their “gang of thugs”, they are a joke… do it my way or I’ll take my toys and go home. It’s just like some of the supposed Christians who probably have never opened the Bible in their life and did any serious study. Try reading it from front to back and then you will see why Israel is still the apple of God’s eye. Why do you think it is mentioned countless times that God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. It will be interesting how things progress…

    One day everyone will stand before the God of Israel and account for their lives here on Earth. Now is the time to make a choice…. You are either for HIM/Israel or you are against him.

    Just something to think about.

  • Judy Neunuebel

    Thanks for the review on what sounds like an excellent movie, loaded with people who aren't afraid to speak the truth. I can't wait to see it.

  • Maegan

    i'm curious who the moderator is for this site, because the racial slurs found in this discussion, on both "sides" are quite disturbing, though ironic given the title of the film under discussion. Comments by Tom W. and Damon specifically i think need to be heavily moderated, as both of them are using hate language.

    i'm a pro-Palestinian Zionist who was living in Jerusalem for 2 years, with a foot in both communities.

    Let me just say, that in watching this film – there is an excellent quality about it: it has the power to spur discussion, it is asking questions that i don't believe we Zionists have answered, and so for us it is a wake up call. Evangelicals who hold to Zionist theology often forget about the promise of the seed of messiah to be a blessing to all peoples, including the Palestinians. We are so focused on Israel that we forget about God's promise to raise up an altar in Egypt and an altar in Assyria, as well as the highway of holiness that will go between the two. In Jeremiah 12 we read that God will uproot Judah and the nations surrounding her, and then each one that turns back to God will be planted back in their land. This to me proves that the creation of the state of Israel is indeed a miracle, and there is hope in the heart of God for a state (for lack of a better word) for Palestinians who are currently oppressed not only by Israel, but Jordan and Egypt. i do not understand how this state will form, or if in the last days there will even be national borders, i would kinda like to think not. But i do believe that Jews and Palestinians will have their own vine trees, beds to sleep on, space for their children to play, in a land they consider to be theirs. Ah, when Messiah comes. And now, we wait, work for justice for both peoples, and see the situation for all it complexities.

    I am bothered by the skewed history and how the film overly appeals to the emotions. The movie tends to assume that all people who hold to a theology that believes that God will literally keep His promises to the Jewish people are racist and don't care about justice issues. I for one am not one of these. I am a Zionist, but i do not endorse all of Israel's policies…and neither do most Jews. For what it's worth, i am bothered by the same things in Zionist films that do not account for the massacres in Jaffa, or the continuing conflict in Hevron, and who try and make the case that anyone who holds to a single-covenant theology is anti-Semitic.

    My dream is to make a movie that makes both Israelis and Palestinians angry, then we'll be onto something. This started to happen with the Gaza war. All the Palestinians complained about how the media was siding with the Israelis, and all the Israelis were complaining about how the media was pro-Palestinian…good job news guys!

    For a true assessment of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, may i suggest watching, "West-Bank Story".

    • Tom W.

      Excuse me but as a Jew, I'm responding to wild anti-Semitic lies and propaganda that comes from spewing parrots in this forum with facts! As such, I have an absolute right to call a spade a spade if a person is an idiot! In terms of anybody being heavily censored, I wouldn't be making any comments here–think about that–I say again, I wouldn't be making any comments here if facts and only facts were printed-period!

      I don't believe you when you say you live in Jerusalem for 2 years, you want to know why? Because I noticed not just in this forum but in all the articles on this website when people make comments like Israel is an apartheid state–why didn't mention your experience in Israel. Are there any Jewish only roads, restaurants that have signs saying we refuse to serve Arabs, public washrooms that are only for Arabs, etc. And that's just the beginning–I don't need to spoon feed here! In all that time in Israel, you never ventured on the Temple Mount? Because if you did, why didn't you talk about the disgusting restrictive rules the Muslim waqf employ? In Israel, are there restrictive traveling measures for non-Jews (like in Saudi Arabia), or could you travel just as easily to Haifa in the North to Eilat in the south? Instead of talking about the West Bank which is part of the disputed territories, why have you not supported arguments for or against Israel based on your actual experience in Israel? In all the time you were in Israel, did you ever get sick or injured–if so, why not comment on the care you received via Israeli health care? I could go on and on but it's not me that was there remember–this is your experience–so why don't I believe you were even in Israel? Because of the complete lack of details of your stay there and any use of your experience being incorporated with your comments!

      See–all I've ever used in my posts are the facts which are completely lacking in you post which ironically you suggested that I need to be heavy moderated! Please prove me wrong by writing in detail about your experience in Israel otherwise you're a liar! Public transportation–did you use it? What buses? More detail please and especially use more detail in either proving or disproving that Israel is fascist apartheid state! After all, you lived there for 2 years–right?

      • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

        "Are there any Jewish only roads, restaurants that have signs saying we refuse to serve Arabs, public washrooms that are only for Arabs, etc."

        Well, you are massacring, torturing, terrorizing, colonizing, subjugating and imprisoning millions of Arabs in concentration camps, and as a propaganda gimmick or window-dressing you allow a small minority of them live in Israel.

        If you really care about humanity, either stop destroying Pal's homes for new settlements and let them be free. Or, grant them citizenship and equal rights. Israel deliberately keep a controlled tension and ambiguous borders so that keep expanding. Everyone knows this fact, the American population that believes in UFO's and Rapture (about 40 percent). As for the Zionists, they are too smart not to know this obvious fact, but they are arrogant liars and care less about the truth.

        • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

          Everyone knows this fact, EXCEPT the American population that believes in UFO's and Rapture (about 40 percent).

        • Tom W.

          Boy–I'm completely sick of you! You want a home for a fake Arab Palestinian people then advocate for the Hashemites to abdicate from their fabricated Hashemite Kingdom! The problem with you Yuksel is that you're a hypocrite because in the first place you deny that there is tribalism among Arabs!

          The Saudis from Eastern Arabia invaded and Western Arabia and took over control of Mecca and Medina (which the Hashemites had since the origins of their tribe)! Also the Saudis performed a non-Islamic act which was to kick out a fellow Arabian tribe out of the country! Muhammad, violently struggled to create one massive unity movement among all the Arabian tribes, he would not of condoned the Saudis for what they did to the Hashemites.

          So Yuksel, you believe in Islamic reformation? Then why don't you begin a movement to have the Saudis kiss and make-up with the Hashemites-uh? Then in the name of justice, the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians can declare their state east of the Jordan River, which will give them approximately 80% of the British Mandated territory of post WW 1 Palestine! Why don't you push for that agenda in your damn Islamic reformation movement? Because you're a gutless hypocrite that's why!

          If you did just that, just what I suggested in the above paragraph, would Islamic reformers such as yourself be content in allowing the Jews to have their state of Israel consisting of just 20% of the former pie of the British Mandated territory of Palestine? Because if you can't even be content with striving for peace among the Saudis and the Hashemites, creating a state of Palestine and recognizing the state of Israel only from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River than there can be no hope for peace ever in the future–even among Islamic reform minded people such as yourself!

          So either start being a voice for a true and practical peace (among Arabs themselves, among Muslims themselves and among both Arabs & Muslims with Jews) or admit you're a gutless coward!

    • Tom W.

      One last thing Maegan:

      What you said, you're a pro-Palestinian Zionist! Now I'll call a spade a spade by using facts, I say you're an idiot!

      Research history, start with the result and aftermath of the Bar Kokhba revolt! Then continue on with who brutally crushed the Jewish revolt, Roman Emperor Aelius Hadrianus, also known as Hadrian. It was Hadrian who in an effort to erase all traces of the Jews and their land, renamed Judea (it was originally Judah but after the Romans first invasion it became the Roman province of Judea) to Syria-Palaestina and renamed the city of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina. Hadrian's Curse as it has become known is when idiots such as yourself deny the Jews, their culture and their land in favour of a myth that was started by Hadrian in order to erase the Jews from history! There are no such people as Syrians just as there are no people called Palestinians!

      My response to people such as yourself who believe in Hadrian's handiwork is this: had Hadrian renamed Judea to Disney World and still killed hundreds of thousands of Jews and over the centuries this land was populated by Arabs, this doesn't make the Arabs Disnenites! But 2000 years later, there would still be people like you who would say that these Arabs are Disnenites and it's the Jews who are the foreigners! My bottom-line is that the original people, the Jews lived in the nation of Judah before the Romans invaded . It's complete fiction to believe there's any Arab people called Disnenites or Palestinians or Syrians because it's all a damn lie!

      See once again, I'm using the truth to call you an idiot! If you have a problem with that then that's your problem and only your problem! But don't come around with lies and be a supportive fellow traveler of the Arabs and be a true believer in their revisionist history without getting insulted by Jews like me who rebuke people like you with the facts! Finally, you're a damn hypocrite by having the nerve to suggest that I need to be heavily moderated when in fact as I've said in my previous post to you, I wouldn't even be here if only the truth was printed! So just who the hell do you think you are by saying I need to be censored when it's only because of people like you that drive me insane with your anti-Semitic garbage that cause me to type the truth in these Internet forums!

      See Maegan that's why I say using facts that you're an idiot because you can't be pro lies and pro truth; it's illogical to be both pro Palestine and Zionist (movement for Jews to establish a homeland back in the biblical land of Canaan). Because to even suggest that you are pro Palestinian means you're a product of Hadrian's Curse! Think in my terms regarding my example, does it make sense for you to say you are pro Disney Arab and still be pro Israel? That's why I'm so damn angry at you!

    • http://www.yuksel.org Edip Yuksel

      Dear Maegan: I am surprised that you call yourself a Zionist, yet you demonstrate a sense of justice, compassion and desire for real peace. You remind me many of the early Zionists who had a noble cause, but later squandered by warmongers, fascists.

      I consider yourself my brother/sister regardless of what name or title you use.

      Peace,

      • Tom W.

        Noble? So you're sarcastically that Jews have suddenly gone from being noble as you see to being fascists? As I say…you're the one who is a damn hypocrite! The Muslims are the only party that were the fascists! They are the only party to cause massive upheaval for the British during the 1920's & 1930's; Yuksel prove me wrong!

        The Arabs rioted and went on massacres against the Jews in Palestine not the other way around. You ever hear of the 1929 Hebron massacre? Look it up, I absolutely refuse to spoonfeed about what happened! Then only people who are the warmongers are the damn Arabs! Even after WW 2 and the Jews having lost of 2 out of every 3 European Jews to Nazi mass murder, the British still refused to allow Jews entry into Palestine because of the fascist Arabs. And finally, after being humiliated by the British and losing most of their land promised to them by the British via slicing off 80% of Palestine and giving it to the Hashemites; the Jews accepted just 10% of what the British originally promised them via the U.N. partition! And you know who refused to accept it? The damn Arabs!

        So don't you even dare talk to me with your FU*KING anti-Semitic revisionist history! The only party that have been and still are the fascists are the Arabs, particularly Muslim Arabs! The Jews are the only party that has made and still are willing to make any concessions for peace; Arabs have never nor will they ever give up any sort of concessions if if means that they will recognize any Jewish State! At least I know this fact but you can't even allow yourself to accept the truth; the only way you can live with yourself is to lie to yourself! You can only imagine a future fantasy where Islam can be reformed to your liking (which will never happen) and until then you stick to the Islamic blame game of demonizing the Jews and creating a revisionist historical record that whitewashes the fascists past of Arabs and Muslims alike!

        Wow Yuksel–you're a great role model for the young generation!

  • furrydoc

    my big black hat is of the dick tracy type, coffee but not clam chowder sometimes falls onto my beard and i try to be benevolent when my professional judgment thinks the other person would be better off having a sharp object inserted through the surface of his skin, usually with consent. it would not occur to me to direct violence toward somebody who is not a threat to me. but i also have a sense of heritage where my geographic neighbors, then and now, never shared my committement to the sanctity of living flesh. while there is a wall and check points and suspicion that approaches racial profiling, it comes with a regard for the safety of population on both sides of that wall.

  • http://www.cmep.org Hal Smith

    Mark,

    You pointed out that the film didn't decide on the best way to end the crisis: "And the ultimate goal is what? A Palestinian state based on the unstable 1967 borders and ruled by Islamists like Hamas or kleptocratic secularists like Fatah?" I can jokingly think of a few western governments run by "kleptocratic secularists." Joking aside, if the US and the UN partnered with Palestinians and helped set-up a friendly government, it might be alot better idea than what is going on now. If the goal for Afghanistan is a secular government instead of permanent occupation, I think such a goal would be better for Palestine too.

    "How are the dwindling numbers of Palestinian Christians faring under Palestinian rule now, and how would they fare under a victorious new, Islamic-dominated Palestinian state?" I am sure they would fare much better in a Muslim state than an Israeli occupation. There were thousands more Christians when they were part of Muslim Jordan. Under Israel's occupation, their numbers dropped several times over!

  • http://www.cmep.org Hal Smith

    Mark,

    Whatever your attitude about Christian Zionism or Liberation Theology, you must feel compassion for Palestinian Christians under a military occupation. And if you love them and trust them, you would believe them when they say their main suffering is from Israel's occupation.

    I feel compassion for my fellow Christians which is different from my feelings about Palestinian Muslims. But now that I see how Palestinian Christians suffer, I have more love for Palestinian Muslims. I also learned that most Palestinian Muslims have much better relations with Christians than Muslims in other countries.

    Does Munayer ever ask his Muslim interlocutors what compromises of self-interest they are willing to make for peace? This is a good question. Palestinians should consider what they should give up for peace. But if leftist evangelicals are right that Palestinian Christians have their back up against the wall, maybe there is not much more that they can give up. If someone really is weak, jobless, and hungry, then it feels harsh asking what will they give up to get a job.

    In Christ,
    Hal Smith

  • http://www.cmep.org Hal Smith

    I can only ask you to love the Palestinian Christians and try to see their situation from their own perspective. I am not asking you to see it from a Muslim perspective or Sandanista perspective. The movie is right that a Christian with brotherly love would go off the beaten path and go as a guest into the homes of Palestinian Christians- and ask- what ails you, brother?

    In Christ,
    Hal Smith

  • Jimmie Snow

    I have chosen to be a Christian who believes the Bible is God's Word, that God loves the Jewish people, has a plan for the Jewish people and for Israel, as well as we who claim Christ. He also has a plan for all who choose not to believe. Each individual has the right to choose. what they believe. If my belief is incorrect, then I will face the consequences of my choices. . . that applies to all others as well. I believe the Jewish people have the right to posses the land of Israel. When I visited there I saw the Jewish people living side by side with those who have a differenct faith – they only set out to protect themselves against those who would kill them and force them out of their land.

  • fuzzywzhe

    I had to comment on this:

    > Here, of course, is the simplistic stereotype about pro-Israel
    > evangelicals the film hopes to perpetuate. American evangelicals
    > self-servingly only support Israel because a Jewish presence
    > there is central to their bloody thirsty, apocalyptic dreams about
    > the Second Coming. The film soothingly implores evangelicals
    > to consider a nicer path.

    From my experience, the simplistic terms are that Palestinians hate Jews because they are racist, radical Muslims.

    The truth of the matter is that a single demographic is desired in Israel, and all other demographics are being asked to leave. That is what Zionism is about. You can argue that 20% of Israel is non Jewish, and this is true, but if you look at how these people are treated, they are not treated as equals in Israeli society. The group of people who have flatly rejected the idea of Zionism are stateless refugees, and there are over 4 million of them. They have had their land taken from them by force, their houses are demolished, and Jewish people build over the rubble in settlements. Of course this creates enmity.

  • Lucie

    For the first time a non jewish peoples can understand the problem on Middle East, to understand better Israel. In less 5 minutes on video, you can understand 99% of the problem. Its so simple to understand, I think this video are genius. http://www.hasbara.us/the-middle-east-problem/ more video http://www.hasbara.us/education