The Pearly Gatecrasher

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The Evangelical Left’s penetration of American evangelical culture accelerated with Sojourners chief Jim Wallis’s high profile appearance at the annual “Lifest” Christian music festival in Oshkosh, Wisconsin earlier this month.

Previously non-political and devoted to inspirational music and spiritual lectures for tens of thousands of American heartland Christians, Lifest seems to have crossed the threshold into the Evangelical Left orbit with Wallis’s entrance.  Adding to the leftward slant was the less high profile but still significant appearance of anti-American pacifist preacher Shane Claiborne, a popular “urban monastic” who sinisterly equates America with ancient Babylon, the Roman Empire, and the Third Reich. (See my assistant Connor Ewing’s onsite report.)

Of course, Wallis loved the “firestorm” he generated.  For the benefit of his supporters afterwards, he recalled:  “A local Christian radio station, which had always supported Lifest, and a local pastor started circulating attacks against me, suggesting that I was a communist, a deceiver, and, worst of all, an adviser to Barack Obama.”   According to Wallis, he was excoriated as an “avowed Marxist” who posed “spiritual peril” to evangelical young people.  He ascribed some of this rhetoric to his favorite critic and bête noire, Glenn Beck.

Ostensibly, Lifest faced “intimidation” unless it cancelled Jim Wallis.  So, America’s most prominent Religious Left prophet courageously confronted his main accuser directly, just like Elijah facing Ahab.  He phoned the president of the Christian radio station that was urging Wallis’s cancellation.  Reassuringly, as Wallis told it, he described to the recalcitrant bourgeois evangelical how he, Wallis, had “worked with the Obama administration” to protect religious freedom in hiring by government funded religious groups, had fought to preserve prohibitions against government funding of abortion, and was impartially advocating a two state solution in the Middle East that would benefit Palestinian Christians.

Evidently the radio chieftain would not retract his “wild and fabricated charges” against Wallis, despite Wallis’s direct application of cool reason.  So the radio station boycotted the festival.  The controversy and boycott amplified the spotlight for Wallis, predictably.  And the Prophet arrived in Wisconsin under the scrutiny of television cameras and enveloped by “press interviews” and meetings with flocking supporters offering apologies for the backwardness of some reactionary Wisconsin evangelicals.  “Please come back again,” they purportedly pleaded to their Prophet.

Wallis’s talk at Lifest was “The Call to Jesus and his Kingdom of Justice,” reportedly arousing a “very enthusiastic response from the thousands of young people who were there — the crowd made even larger because of the controversy, of course.”  Wallis recalled their cheers when he announced that “any gospel that isn’t good news to the poor is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.”  He evidently did not more fully explain his view that the Gospel’s concern for the poor primarily entails the endless expansion of the welfare state, which is God’s primary instrument for the global salvation.

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  • Beverley

    There are liberal Christians that claim that "social justice" is part of the gospel. Christians are not told to transform society and make sure everything is equal. We are called to preach the gospel. The gospel is the cure for sin and it has nothing to do with 'social justice.' Jesus did not come to save the poor and make them rich. He did not come to save the rich to make them poor …hello. He came to save everyone and has nothing to do with money or status.

    The gospel is the cure for sin and it has absolutley nothing to do with 'social justice.' Many of these 'christians' like Jim Wallis and all those who gather around him. Like what I call the 'feel good' factor but what they are actually doing is called a 'works programe.' They think that makes them good christians.

    They should rather empower the poor – if you give a person a fish he will be fed today, but if you teach him to fish he will be able to feed his family. Giving people the tools to grow and be productive is better than having them become dependent on government for their sustenance. These liberal christianin working with governments are just wannabe politicians in drag.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

      Does your condemnation include Bush's faith based welfare programs too?

    • Mike LeMay

      I am the "Christian radio President" that spoke with Wallis and I can assure you his "recollection" of our conversation was full of "inaccuracies". He refused to call homosexuality or abortion sins and stated that"We must have a beautiful earth before Jesus can return". When I asked him if he even read the books of Revelations, or the other prophetic bible books, he changed the subject.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

    It's funny how conservatives evangelicals will swallow all sorts of hateful, doom and gloom, stupid nonsense if someone puts a biblical spin on self serving politics but let some tool like Tooley yell Red and they all wet their pants.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/The_Inquisitor The_Inquisitor

      Those who favor forced redistribution of wealth are not Christians. And I mean that literally.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

        So if you favor paying any taxes then you are nor a Christian? When did a fascist lowlife, who hides behind some ugly take on religion, like you get the power to decide who is or is not a Christian? Inquisitor, like Torquemada?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/The_Inquisitor The_Inquisitor

          It is not me who decides; it is the foundation of Christian doctrine — the Ten Commandments — and pure logic.

          Using Catholic enumeration, a Christian can break Commandments Four through Ten and can still be considered a Christian even while he is breaking them. He is just a Christian who has strayed. But the First Commandment (I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt have no other gods before me.) is the litmus test for membership in the club. Break that and by definition you are not a Christian.

          A Christian can steal (break the Seventh Commandment) and still be a Christian. But when he advocates institutionalized theft that is another kettle of fish. When he advocates breaking the Seventh Commandment as a matter of policy he is appealing to a higher authority than the author of the Ten Commandments. He is in effect worshiping some other god — the god of majority vote, the goddess of altruism, the god of personal feelings, or whatever but not the author of the Ten Commandments. He has broken the First Commandment and therefore is no longer a Christian. QED

        • phillipgaley

          Morrisminor, Hi,
          For your: "So if you favor paying any taxes then you are nor a Christian?", the attempt to put extreme language between the lips of your opposite partner in the discussion is not argument; it is, rather, destructive of argument.
          But to be no surprise, for, that failing, immediately, you jump to ad hominem attack—but in the most scurrilous terminology, . . . so, . . . then, if witness of one such as that is to be of any consideration, by the simplest path of logic, whatever morris says, or promulgates, of advocates for, probably, just the opposite is near to being aught of truth or sound reason, . . .

        • phillipgaley

          Morris, Hi,
          The attempt to put extensions to the extreme between the lips of your partner in discussion is not argument; it is, rather, destructive of argument.
          Then, and no surprise you leap to ad hominem attack—but in the most scurrilous terms.
          So, . . . by the simplest pathway in logic, for whatever you advocate, the most likely possibility is that, the opposite is nearer fact or truth, . . .

        • phillipgaley

          Morris, Hi,
          The attempt to put extensions to the extreme in the mouth of your partner in discussion is not argument; it is, rather, destructive of argument.
          Then, and no surprise, you leap to ad hominem attack—but in the most scurrilous terms.
          So, . . . by the simplest pathway in logic, for whatever you advocate, the most likely possibility is that, the opposite is nearer fact or truth, . . .

        • Liberty Clinger

          Government enforced theft and redistribution of property is not Christian, it is Marxist.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Mo_ Mo_

        Amen! I don't know where people get the idea that such things are taught in the Bible. The Bible teaches that we should help the poor out of our own free desire and will, not by the government forcefully taking from one person to give to another.

        Jesus was not a communist!

    • trodaball

      Save yourself ! ( no pun intended, I'm speaking of this thread ) Any subsequent posts will only further confirm the views people hold of your " new and improved empirical Christianity, " people who know true Chistianity, exegesis, hermanuetics, history and possess common sense. The manifested hatred you exhibit towards the profound, yet simple, message of Jesus Christ and His followers, will only backfire. Our rewards will increase, and your destiny, tragically and unneccesarily will be sealed.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

        And you are as arrogant as you are dishonest, Where do right wing mouthpieces like you or Tool get the gall to decide who is a Christian or not?

        • darkmorrow

          Wallis decided HE was a Marxist. There are dozens of recordings were he states his affinity for the Marxist governance. Pope John Paul II made the best arguement against the "GODLESS state of Communism". Wallis would have us bend our knee to the State first and GOD second. What will you do when I refuse to follow his false Gospel? Because the Soviet Union would have me killed.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/DagW DagW

    I see that Mark Tooley has a book out, Taking Back the United Methodist Church. I know this writer only from his posts at Front Page Magazine, and there he is my favourite writer, which says much given that I'm not a religious person and that I limit my reading of Christians for the most part to Rene Girard, a different kind of writer altogether. If it weren't for the likes of Walter Rauschenbusch, then perhaps I'd be happier with Christians, but such is not so. Still, Tooley is one of the best of what today and for a hundred years now is a bad lot, and I look forward to his posts. Is there hope for Christians? I don't care. But I do like Tooley's writings and wish that there were more Christians like him. Till then, I take what I can get and am thankful.

  • sandra paquette

    Well said Beverly.

  • CharlesWhite

    I agree Beverly, Jesus came to cure the Soul not the Flesh, yes Jesus had the power in both the physical and spiritual realm to cure anything, but he died to save your soul not your flesh (or we would be living forever now).
    DagW so the way you put it I should say “if it weren’t for the likes of _________ (insert your favorite; i.e. Hitler (agnostic), Stalin, Moa (atheist), Mohammad (Muslim), Genghis Khan, etc. (the list is endless)) then perhaps I'd be happier with” anyone that wasn’t a Christian! But because these non-Christians were the biggest Murdering, Hate filled examples the World has ever seen one can only say that non-Christians are truly the most Murdering Hate filled (evil) people!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/The_Inquisitor The_Inquisitor

    The Divine Right of Kings is making a comeback. Watch out!

  • poetcomic1

    He is not 'misguided' or 'sentimental', he is truly evil. The Satanic project is to put MAN at the center of the Christian religion, so in the end man worships and 'saves' himself.

    • james

      YES;they do choose poorly.It is called ;the STEERING COMMITTEE.THE INDIVIDUAL OR THE GROUP WHO ACTS AS ONE.IF IT IS NOT GOD CREATOR LEADING;THEN IT IS A BEAST.A FRANKENSTEIN;WHITHER 2 MORE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN THE NAME OF SATAN(OR HIS WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE)THERE HE IS AMONGST THEM;JUST LIKE;WHETHER SOEVER 2 OR MORE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME(JESUS OR TRUTH)SO I AM THERE IN THE MIDST OF THEM.REMEMBER ALSO THAT IN THE OLD TESTEMENT;'IT WAS TOLD SAMUEL'GO AND ANOIT SAUL AS KING'THEY DON'T WANT ME FOR THIER KING……….

  • singanewsong

    A warning from Paul in Galatians 1: 8-9 " But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned."

    • debarrio

      And a warning from Jesus to the followers of Jim Wallis:
      "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." Mathew 24-24

  • Jean

    The Devil spends a lot of time in the Christian community. I've heard the Big D hates being laughed at. Maybe we believers should point and laugh more.

    • MMcFM

      The "Big D" finds a lot to laugh at in the behavior of many self-proclaiming Christians.

    • james

      I despise the evil one also;but be advised to be careful about attacking him;although i would also like to get a few laughs in myself;it can be dangerous to take him lightly ;athough we are given authority in certain matters…..just thinking about what i know and passing it on in a freindly manner…..an action can result in an opposite reaction

  • Dean Bruckner

    The ironic thing is that when tyrants in waiting–and this could include President Obama or someone in his circle–finally seize power, they quickly get rid of useful idiots like Jim Wallis. People like Jim Wallis are relevant only in the runup to totalitarianism.

    • Liberty Clinger

      Lenin and Stalin had some Christian clerics in tow. I don't think Jim Wallis is a useful idiot; i believe he is a Manifesto-thumping Marxist himself.

  • Reneeca

    Sol Alinsky wrote, ""All effective actions require the passport of morality." No one does this better than President Obama. He learned his lessons well.

    • james

      The democrats and republicans offer empty calories;sugary soothing syrup from the pharmacy of Hell.

  • Penny

    (From the fictional demon Screwtape in C.S. Lewis's book "The Screwtape Letters): "Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacrament and charity, he is ours – and the more 'religious' (on those terms), the more securely ours. I could show you a pretty cageful down here."

    And also: "The thing to do is to get a man at first to value social justice as a thing which the Enemy (God) demands, and then work him on to the stage at which he values Christianity because it may produce social justice. For the Enemy will not be used as a convenience. Men or nations who think they can revive the Faith in order to make a good society might just as well think they can use the stairs of Heaven as a short cut to the nearest chemist's shop. Fortunately, it is quite easy to coax humans round this little corner."

  • guest

    Jesus said: " For ye have the poor always with you (Mt 26:11)." This is a fact in a corrupt and fallen world. Christ also said: "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another (Jn 13:34)." Love is for the benefit of the giver and receiver. God's purposes are that we individually show love to those around us. Love is the sacrifice of self for the benefit of another, God foremost and then your neighbor (2 Great Commandments). The government taking of money (through taxes) from one and giving it to another (re-distribution) is not the love God expects. If for no other reason, the US government has set itself against God. Also, writing a check and sending it off to some organization, never truly knowing how the funds were used, defeats the purpose. Giving and helping others is a very personal and participatory thing. Feeding and clothing someone who is hungry or cold is a very satifying thing. Helping a poor child is very gratifying. However, you must be their (in person). Your reaching out in love reveals God to them. God then rewards you.

  • Bill

    Some great comments here. As a history prof, I have seen this story played out many times in the documents I have studied. People have repeatedly tried to to make their idea of the Kingdom of God the Kingdom of this world and it always turns out badly both for believers and unbelievers. Our founders did not want freedom from religion to prevail, just go read them and you will see that clearly, but neither did they want any one man or one group's vision of the kingdom of God to have official sanction and coercive power.

    • james

      very bluntly;MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD;IT IS AKINGDOM WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLY WHERE ALL PURSES OR PROVISIONS HAVE NO GUILE;WHERE PASTURES ARE CLEAN AND NO GARMENTS NEED PATCHING……………..

  • Bill

    People like Wallis want to take over God's role for him and they want government to use its coercive power in their favor. In one sense they are Me-ocrats (a term I have just now coined) often improperly identified as Theocrats (the rule of God). A real theocrat awaits God's rule, put in place by God himself, instead of a fake like Wallis and all the rest, including Muhammad, who want human government to determine our belief systems rather than perform its more modest and and wholly negative, according to Romans 13, God assigned role of restraining human mistreatment of other human. Our founders wanted a government that encouraged the good influences of religion, especially in the areas of morality, without destroying free religious self-expression. The ultimate liberty is freedom of thought, freedom of religion, the freedom to believe what we have become convinced of and the right to attempt to peacefully and non-coercively to convince others to believe as we do. A denial of any part of that is a denial of true freedom of thought and, thus, a denial of religious liberty. Just my two cents..

    • trilby

      I'm grateful for this post. The bishops of my own church are far too keen on the idea that the proper role of Christian leaders is to schmooze the government into doing the work of the Church. The result is always "soft tyranny," not charity.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

    Glad to see all the paranoid, hypocritical selfish lowlifes who call themselves Christians here once again demonstrated what ugly little cretins you are. You are all why I despise theocons.

    • trilby

      Good Lord! "Paranoid, hypocritical, selfish, lowlife . . . fascist lowlife . . . arrogant . . . dishonest." If the ad hominem fallacy were a felony, "progressives" wouldn't have much left to say. And Morrisminor's devotion to illogic runs hand-in-hand with his indifference to the literal meaning of words. "Fascist," for example, is not a synonym for "opposed to Big Government." Look it up, Morris. And while you're at it, you might give some attention to the Laws of Thought.

    • trilby

      The comment I intended to make here was perfectly civilized. Why was it snuffed out by some godlike administrator?

    • Liberty Clinger

      Paranoia is an irrational belief, that is to say a belief which is not true. A person is paranoid when he or she sees something that is not there or can't see what is there. Please explain who is paranoid and which beliefs are paranoid, and please set the record straight about what is true and what is false in your accusation of paranoia.

      Hypocrisy means saying one thing but doing the opposite. How can you know what people actually do when you can only read what they write?

    • Liberty Clinger

      Your hostility toward Christians and those you deride as a "theocon" reminds me of your mentor.

      “The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion.” Karl Marx

      "There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality." Karl Marx

      “I long to take vengeance on the One Who rules from above.” Karl Marx

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

        Since I am not a Communist I will not defend it. But you are the quintessential right wing crackpot, who goes around labeling everyone & everything your tiny mind disagree with as a Commie. My hostility is to ugly little fascist crackpots who hide behind some religion like you or Al Qaeda. Oh , now you sing some libertarian tune when Obama is around, but if cretins like you ever got any power, you would change your song very quickly

        • Liberty Clinger

          There is little difference between a Communist and a Fascist; and you spout off like one or the other. BTW, Al Qaeda is Islamo-Fascist as opposed to my Christian faith which is, like our Founding Fathers, rooted in man's God-given unalienable rights to life, libertry and creative pursuit of happiness. I am as far "Right" as Thomas Jefferson and as far "Left" as Thomas Jefferson.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODJfwa9XKZQ

          My mind is larger than yours.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

            Oh baloney. Europe was Xtian for a thousand years plus before the US was formed, Christianity was around for 1700+ years and Judaism another 2000 on top of that. So if it was all from God, why did God wait so long and far from home to tell people about those freedoms?
            Yes, you babble some libertarian trash now since your fellow Christo Fascists like Bush have no power.So if wealth redistribution and coercion is wrong, then you must be opposed to all taxes and by extension to all government, Are you an anarchist or something. Your mind may be larger than mine, but since you can't even see these basic contradictions I posted, it must not be working too well.

          • Liberty Clinger

            The truth of sacred human liberty has been around since the time of Moses who liberated the ancient Hebrews from tyranny. The sacredness of human freedom has been in textual form since the book of Genesis which states man is made in the image of God. Since God is free man has a sacred, unalienable right to liberty; man is born free. The liberty bell is inscribed with a passage from the Old Testament:

            "Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land and unto all the inhabitants thereof” Leviticus

            The New Testament also supports the same truth that God made man with a sacred right to freedom, as Thomas Jefferson said, “within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.”

            "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Corinthians

          • Liberty Clinger

            Like a Marxist you say freedom is not the gift of God which pits you against our Founding Fathers, against the Declaration of Independence and against the American Revolution it’s self. God wrote natural moral law in our hearts and minds even before His Spirit inspired it into the Biblical text.

            “The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased.” Alexander Hamilton

            "Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens . . . are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion.” Thomas Jefferson

            “God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?” Thomas Jefferson
            http://www.monticello.org/reports/quotes/memorial

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

            I am not a Marxist
            But you are truly a reactionary theocon pinhead, a zero dimensional person who is so self absorbed and fanatic that you have to label all you disagree with as evil enemies. Your quotes don't prove a thing.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

            I guess the right wing cretins who run this blog have decided that you are unable to deal with people who disagree with you, so they are deleting my posts!

          • Liberty Clinger

            You may be right about the existence of Christo-Fascists, but there are also Atheo-Marxists – the latter far outnumber the former and are of immeasurably greater power and influence. A pox on both of their totalitarian houses.

            I am not against taxation which does not infringe the individual's sacred right to the creative pursuit of happiness – his/her unalienable right to possess private property honestly earned through labor. The Federal government should tax us no more than 10% (same for State/Local government) because greater taxation renders Caesar greater than God. Unjust taxation by government (a small group of people after all – the Pigs of Animal Farm) creates a false god of greedy, self-serving "Philosopher Kings."

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

            When did pursuit of happiness, which sounds hedonistic to me, become a sacred right? Where in any text does it describe the point of when taxation becomes evil?

          • Liberty Clinger

            “God, who hath given the world to men in common, hath also given them reason to make use of it to the best advantage of life, and convenience… Though the earth, and all inferior creatures, be common to all men, yet every man has a property in his own person: this nobody has any right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. It being by him removed from the common state nature hath placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it, that excludes the common right of other men: for this labour being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others.” John Locke
            http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111lo

          • Liberty Clinger

            “Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” Samuel Adams

            “Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions.” James Madison

            “In the general course of human nature, a power over man's substance amounts to a power over his will.” Alexander Hamilton

          • Liberty Clinger

            “The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management.” Thomas Jefferson

            "To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association–the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." Thomas Jefferson

            “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” Thomas Jefferson

          • Liberty Clinger

            "Where in any text does it describe the point of when taxation becomes evil?"

            “The proletariat (lazy, non-disabled poor) will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie (laboring middle class), to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state (self-serving Marxist government)… Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property… You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must, indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible… In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things. In all these movements, they bring to the front, as the leading question in each, the property question, no matter what its degree of development at the time… In one word, you reproach us with intending to do away with your property. Precisely so; that is just what we intend.” Karl Marx
            http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manife

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

            Once again, you little cretin, I am not a Marxist, does that penetrate the ignorance and fanaticism of your hardened skull?

          • Liberty Clinger

            Taxation becomes evil when it reduces a man to serfdom under greedy, self-serving government – either Marxist, Fascist, Islamo-Fascist or Monarchist. You think and write like a Marxist whether or not you reject the label. As for cretinism, it may be that your thyroid hormone levels need a check. Seriously, your foul personality betrays a totalitarian mind. My next post will provide another answer to your question "Where in any text does it describe the point of when taxation becomes evil?"

          • Liberty Clinger

            “It had long been realized that the only secure basis for oligarchy is collectivism. Wealth and privilege are most easily defended when they are possessed jointly. The so-called "abolition of private property" (Communist Manifesto) meant in effect the concentration of property in far fewer hands than before… In the years following the Revolution it (The Socialist Party of Oceania) was able to step into this commanding position almost un-opposed because the whole process was represented as an act of collectivization… It had always been assumed that if the Capitalist Class were expropriated Socialism must follow; and unquestionably the Capitalists had been expropriated. Factories, mines, land, houses, transport, everything had been taken away from them; and since these things were no longer private property it followed that they must be public property. Ingsoc (Socialist Principles of Oceania), which grew out of the earlier Socialist movement and inherited its phraseology, has in fact carried out the main item in the Socialist program with the result; foreseen and intended beforehand, that economic inequality has been made permanent.” George Orwell – 1984

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sebyandrew sebyandrew

    and so you hang around just to see what they say next, huh?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Morrisminor Morrisminor

      It was my vain hope is to make you use your mind

  • Liberty Clinger

    Jesus instructed his followers (later known as Christians) to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Jesus was not speaking to government but to individuals. Jesus never instructed His followers to coercively collectivize, through confiscatory government taxation, their labored-for property into a communal pot (commune-ism) exclusively controlled by an elite, greedy, self-serving class of not-to-be-equalized equalizers – the Pigs of Animal Farm – what we now recognize as Marxist government. Jesus did not instruct His followers to redistribute property “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs,” because He knew that would lead to a lazy class of people would depend on what we now recognize as Marxist government to steal property from the laboring middle class (according to their ability) and redistribute that property to those in the proletariat class who are unwilling to labor (according to their need). Jesus knew that a lazy man would have unlimited need and therefore such a system would of necessity tax the laboring man without limit – according to his ability.

  • Liberty Clinger

    Jesus knew that such a system of government would in effect enslave the laboring man to the proletariat man and his Marxist master in government. Jesus understood that once such a collectivist (commune-ist) system was in place the lazy with outstretched hands would soon equal and possibly outnumber the industrious who, little by little, become exhausted and demoralized by the theft of their labored-for property – no longer owning the fruit of their own labor; and when the productive people were finally extinguished and merged into the proletariat class by this evil scheme, food shortages and anarchy would become inevitable and a totalitarian, god-like Dictatorship would "come to the rescue." Jesus was not a Socialist.

  • Liberty Clinger

    Notice also that Jesus never instructed His followers to prevent hunger through government; He said "feed the hungry" once they become hungry; Jesus knew that hunger is a natural incentive for work. Prevention of hunger is best done by each man who labors for his own bread – not through coercive, self-serving Marxist government. The early followers of Jesus were instructed in what turns out to be anti-collectivist, anti-Socialist, anti-Marxist, pro-individual teachings.

    “We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you… we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”” 2 Thessalonians

  • Liberty Clinger

    “The proletariat (lazy, non-disabled poor) will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie (laboring middle class), to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state (Marxist government)… Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property. You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must, indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible… We have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the (non) working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class (Marxist Dictatorship) to win the battle of democracy.” Karl Marx
    http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manife

  • Mo_

    This guy drives me nuts! (Along with Shane Clairborne. I read his book and then threw it out in absolute disgust.)

    These two are nothing but Leftists using Christian terms and twisting what the Bible teaches.

    The Bible does NOT teach for the government to take from one citizen to give to another. That is not charity! We, as individuals, are to help the poor out of our own free will.

    No true follower of Christ would have anything to do with a racist, socialist, baby-slaughtering advocate like Barack Obama. It is absolutely appalling to me.

    The scary part is that so many people are being influenced by these two guys! I've even seen some people in my own church starting to agree with some of their ideas. And they should know better!

  • http://www.shoutsofjoyministries.com Joie Pirkey

    The leader of Lifest, Bob Lenz, attends his older brothers church, Christ the Rock Community Church in Menasha, WI. This church has hosted a conference titled "Jesus in the Quran" a number of times, where they teach young missionaries to promote the idea that Muslims need to stay in Islam and simply follow Christ, that a Muslim is already on the "straight path" and are already in the Kingdom of God. There is a serious ideology sweeping through the church people, from Social Justice to Insider Movement. The stuff looks exactly like what's coming out of the White House as well. For every ministry, organization, man with moxie that takes a stand, God Bless them!

  • Ron

    I listened to Wallis speak @ Lifest. Besides his use of scripture out of context (he said Jesus' first word were 'feed the hungy' … just not so! That makes him a liar too), his presentation was really boring; for such a "front man" to be a bad public speaker is mind boggling. I heard only a small amount of applause, not the wild response he claims. Most of the yong folks around us just milled around waiting for the next concert to start. I presonally think he was distracted by the Holy Spirit convicting his heart for being such a deceiver {Eph 4:11-16}

  • Liberty Clinger

    Jesus did say "feed the hungry," but that was an instruction to His followers as individuals – not an invitation for Marxist government to rob the Middle Class, to feather their own nests as the Pigs of Animal Farm, and to toss out leftovers (to redistribute property) to the Proletariat Class (lazy, non-disabled poor) in return for votes.

    Jesus didn't lay groundwork for totalitarian government to enslave the working middle class in order to feed the lazy proletariat class so they will never become hungry; He knew that the lazy, unwilling to labor for their bread, will become hungry. They only deserve the minimum from the hard-working class – just enough to alienate hunger once it is upon them – just enough to kindle a work ethic of their own.

  • Liberty Clinger

    "For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; nor did we eat anyone’s bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you… For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread." 2 Thessolonians

  • Laura

    Jim Wallis promotes communism even while he defends himself against its charges. In the communist takeover of Cuba, the communists infiltrated and decimated the church as an obstacle by replacing the gospel with a counterfeit one. Christians were deceived into removing Jesus Christ from His place of rightful headship and replacing Him with trust in the government. Thus, the true gospel was diluted and corrupted, and those who insisted on following Christ were persecuted.

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