The Left’s Beck Envy

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A superficially wide coalition of about 300 left and far-left groups, from the AFL-CIO to the Communist Party USA to the United Methodist lobby office, is sponsoring a rally in Washington, D.C. this Saturday to match and counter Glenn Beck’s successful event on the National Mall last month.

Called “One Nation Working Together” (ONWT), the rally will demand more-more-more government, while denouncing U.S. military power, pressing for open borders, and pushing the usual litany of liberationist social causes.  They hope to attract 100,000 or more as an antidote to Tea Party populism.

“As people of faith, we deeply care about the issues of justice, education and jobs, and we feel those are issues facing society we have to address,” chimed the Rev. Amy Stapleton, of the United Methodist General Commission on Religion and Race, to the New York Times. “A march like this is something that hasn’t been accomplished since Dr. King brought people together in 1963 around issues of race, war, class and the right to decent pay and good jobs.”

Besides United Methodist liberal elites, ONWT also has sponsorship from the United Church of Christ, Michael Lerner’s Tikkun-Network of Spiritual Progressives and Jim Wallis’s Sojourners Evangelical Left group.  But the real muscle will come from trade unions, most of them for government workers, who will bus in their usual placard waving activists.

“The Tea Party has been getting much more media attention than it deserves, and it’s been saying it represents the voice of middle-class America,” explained an official with a New York health care union local, who told the New York Times that his union has chartered 500 buses to carry 25,000 union members to the rally. “A lot of us feel we have to get a different voice out there speaking for working people, one respecting the diversity of this country, which the Tea Party does not.”

Sponsors include the the National Education Association, AFSCME, National Council of La Raza, People for the American Way, Planned Parenthood, the Human Rights Campaign, Americans for Democratic Action, the NAACP, Democratic Socialists of America, Institute for Policy Studies, U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, Win Without War, the American Muslim Association of North America, and Code Pink.  The orchestrated marchers want more federal stimulus for local governments, more mortgage bail-outs, liberalized bankruptcy laws, more coerced unionization, a higher minimum wage, reduced military spending, public option health care, and protections from workplace “discrimination” for every conceivable self-described sexual minority, including “gender identity or expression,” which presumably includes transsexuality and cross dressing.  Queers for Economic Justice and National Center for Transgender Equality are ONWT sponsors.

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  • Chezwick_Mac

    A veritable who's who of the looney left.

  • Rifleman

    The left's green with envy over the Tea Party movement. They've been astroturfing for so long they can't handle it when a real grassroots movement of mainstream Americans comes along. I bet this freakshow coalition will make a glaring contrast to the Tea Party protests and will hurt the dp more than it helps.

    • Cindy

      The main point that th Left doesn't understand about the Beck Rally is that the people who attended came on their own. There were no corporate sponors busing in professional protestors.
      There were just hundreds of thousands of God-fearing, American loving people who gathered to say that our country is headed down the wrong path.
      I am proud to say that I was a part of that group.
      Rifleman, you are correct…when all of those people are gathered together on 10/2/10 America will see what we are up against and it won't be pretty!

  • davarino

    They show that they dont even have a clue. They dont get it and there is no populism in their message. They do not speak for the majority, and they dont even realize Obama has lifted their skirt and shown everyone what they are really about. That is why they will not be able to have the same message as the Tea Party, because the people have finally seen what the leftist wing of the DP is all about. This aint your old democratic party anymore, its run by the likes of these wingnuts listed above……commies, socialists, and ……. the other guys who hate America.

    My 90 year old grandma and her children, who are deeply religious, were democrats from way back, because they thought they were supporting a party that truely cared about people and issues. But now they are starting to get it, that just cause you say you care about people, doesnt mean you can do any and everything to aleviate everyones discomforts,

    PEOPLE HAVE TO HELP PULL THIS WAGON INSTEAD OF DRAGGING THEIR FEET.

  • guest

    Haha – "identification with victim mythology" said the pot to the kettle! Who has been whining about being oppressed more lately than the poor little tea partiers. I guess the only legitimate victims are white conservative victims of, well, of everyone else! Please.

    • IreneAdler

      I don't recall hearing conservatives referring to themselves as victims. I have, however, heard just about every left-wing organization refer to themselves as such.

      Are we whining? Perhaps, if you think it's whining when someone stands up to declare he's had enough of the outright theft of his earnings. My husband works a minimum of 60 hours a week for his salary, just so the government at every level can come in, steal it, and give it to another who sits on his lazy hind end.

      People think they have a right to confiscate that which is earned by others, and use the power of the government to enforce the thievery. There is no difference between him and the mugger, except that the mugger takes the responsibility and onus upon himself. Frankly, I have more respect for the mugger.

      • Jim

        Before I retired I worked 84 hours a week. I had college loans to pay off for my 3 children. It was a Union job and very hard and hazardous work. I resent being lumped in with communists, islamists and the lot!

        I think the issue is 'fair share' of taxes. I didn't like the amount of tax I had to pay, however there are many people who made much more than I who paid much less in taxes. This is the real issue that conservative supporters don't want to talk about. The bulk of wall streeters are conservative and look at where we are today. Working class wages have taken a 25 year backstep. How can we have a healthy economy and work force when we spend our time defending Democrats and Republicans. Both parties are killing this country!!

        • bdouglasaf1980

          There are lies and there are damn lies. You sir can count yourself as ignorant or of the damn liar crowd. Look at the richest men in the US. They are all heavy democrat supporters. Look at the latest wall street bailouts. The democrats are using this money to pay themselves as wall street makes donations to the democrats. GM was bailed out with our money. They refinanced the loan, said they paid off the government, turned around and donated huge sums to the democrats. Those are facts.

          • Jim

            The bailout programs were started by your hero G.W. Bush and finished by the left's hero Obama. The money to bailout AIG and the rest of Wall Street was huge compared to what was lent to GM. I think those are all facts too! My complaint with Beck and those like him is they have no intellectual honesty! They twist the facts to support what it is you love to hear them speak about.

            Why don't you quit the name calling and learn some basic debating skills?

          • bubba4

            TARP was Bush. Stimulus was Obama.
            Nothing was nationalized…GM looks like it will recover.

            bdouglas won't recover….

            C U L T

          • Nick Shaw

            You really oughta' get a clue before you take keyboard in hand. Tarp was started by Bush, continued by The One and, to make matters worse any repayments to Tarp are being spent by The One, against the original mandate of the bill. If you think Stimulus had anything to do with The One, except for ball parking a price for it (about a hundred billion off by the way) you should stop commenting and read a bit more. Nothing was nationalized? How about AIG and Fannie and Freddie? You know the last 2 are not "independent" any more, right? How about the whole student loan industry? GM looks like it will recover? Ummm yeah..if you say so…

          • Jim C.

            bdouglaasf, I'm not sure if you are being a deliberate caricature of a conservative (in which case, well done) or really that easily led (in which case, do some homework).

          • trickyblain

            Thanks for the laugh Jim. Sadly, homework to B-Doug would involve reading FPM to learn about current events, getting American history lessons from Glen Beck, economics from Christine O'Donnell, morals from Sarah Palin and civics from Rush. And he doesn't see anything wrong/odd with that.

        • pianoforte54

          Why didn't your CHILDREN pay off their loans themselves? And regarding those who made much more than you and paid less taxes….did they TELL you that? Did they show you their pay stubs? Me thinks you are just another whiner and hater of the wealthy….and lest you think I'm one of the wealthy…I make 8.50 an hour, live to pay taxes and look forward to the day where I can start keeping a little more of my money for myself instead of it going to the government to pay someone who doesn't work.

          • Jim C.

            You make 8.50 an hour. Consider that before the 1980s your income, as well as what we call middle class income, grew along with productivity. Since then, these incomes have remained relatively stagnant–moving very little–while the economy grew. The rich got richer several times over, while the change in income in the middle class is due mainly to the now-norm of two income households.

            The rich need to pay up. And while I agree with conservatives that this is unseemly "class warfare" and will probably do the economy no favors short term, it IS MORE THAN FAIR, and will lead to long term growth. We can't continue on the path we've been on, unless we want to be taken for fools by the rich.

            There has been, and will be, a reckoning for this income disparity whether we like it or not–and it will be painful. If we want our pain NOW–then, right, no bailouts, no subsidies.

        • Enuf Liberal BS

          Fair share of taxes? Let's look at that for a moment. the top 25-30% wager earners pay more then 75% of the taxes and the bottom 40% or so pay….let's see….NOTHING! If you want fair share of taxes, let's have EVERYONE pay. EVERYONE pay the same rate whether you make 10,000 a year or 10,000,000 a years. THEN that would be fair share. Taxing someone at a higher rate because they make more money then you is not fair.

          • Jim

            About 80% of foreign companies in this country and about 70% of US companies here pay no corporate taxes. Most of the money earned and most of the wealth in this country is held by a small percentage. It's why you can spout the numbers you do and make it look like the rich are being treated unfairly. Those tax breaks make the bailouts seem like pocket change.

            All of this didn't just happen since Obama was elected. Every president since Reagan has played a part in the wrecking of our economy.

            Personally I think some sort of flat tax is in order without any of the loopholes for the high earners.

          • psnorby

            Corporations DO NOT pay taxes! They only collect them. Everything you buy has approximately 22% imbedded tax in its price.

          • Nick Shaw

            The only part you have right Jim, is that there should be a flat tax, on everybody, no deductions or excuses. Otherwise, you seem to take the typical lefty stance that, if he has more than me he's gotta be stealing from me and wealth is finite. Wealth is infinite. If you want the same income as the rich guy you are perfectly able to do that. It may take a lot of hard work and more than a little luck but, it is possible in the USA. Does that mean you put someone else at a disadvantage or stole from someone to make the big bucks? You tell me, would you? Then why do you think people who have money now would do so? You know, of course, that once you got rich, by the sweat of your brow, people exactly like you would be accusing you of stealing it and not paying your fair share. Dumbass envy driven liberals! Oh, and pay attention to psnorby, above, corporations don't pay taxes like you think. You pay the corps taxes fool!

          • Rifleman

            They're a paying a higher rate, so they certainly are being treated unfairly and discriminated against. What those numbers make it look like, is a minority is being picked on and robbed.

            To refrain from confiscating more of the wealth from the people who created or earned it (and are most likely to create more wealth with it), isn’t spending it. You can’t spend what wasn’t ever yours. It costs the country and the government nothing. Taking it from the person who earned it and giving it to someone who didn’t costs the government and the country. Open your eyes a little wider and you’re smart enough to see you’re trying to put the cart before the horse.

          • Nick Shaw

            You're not talkin' to me are you, Rifleman?

          • Rifleman

            I don't think so, posting this should show me if I just posted to the wrong thread, or in reply to Jim like I meant to. Yep, it's to him, it's just hard to tell sometimes.

          • Nick Shaw

            I didn't think so. I was just yankin' your chain.

          • trickyblain

            Howdy RM! What percentage of taxes go to "people who cost the gov't"? I really ain't that much in comparison to roads, infrastructure, military, education (which reduces the amount of poor, or at least it used to).

            Many people live day–to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck. It's no left wing delusion that wages for the middle class have stagnated, and it is a big reason this recession is going on so long – folks can't spend their way out of it because they can't afford to. Meanwhile, salaries in the top two percent are astronomically higher than they ever have bee – and they are paying less taxes than any point in our history!

            How has this proven to be good for the other 98 percent? Not in "conservative" talking point language, but in actual, tangible reality. It has not.

          • trickyblain

            con't…

            The higher rate is based on what people can afford. If the gentleman posting above, who makes $8.50p/h were taxed at 48 percent, it would be devastating. If a guy making 12 mill a year were taxed at the same rate, it would, despite his outcry that it was like Nazis invading Poland, be a mild annoyance. I do ok, but I’d be doing cartwheels if I made $7 million per year. There’s not a lot you couldn’t do with $7 million per year, is there?

            The Trickle-Down rouse is dead. The money the top wage earners make does not find it's way down the system. Look at wage stagnation vs. top earnings since the Reagan cuts and this is beyond doubt.

            Hope all is well, bud…

          • Rifleman

            Hey Tricky, all is well here, and I hope it is there. It's always good to 'see' you, but it was past bedtime when I saw your reply (Don't you hate having to break up your post after a couple of paragraphs? I do). Good thought provoking post, as usual, but I disagree on some things.

            The government spending over time spreadsheet I made to answer questions like your first one is at work, but it's about 70%, and excluding social security and medicare (which are at least arguably user funded), it's around 20% of what the federal government spends. I think “used to,” is the operative phrase with education, and though I think the federal government should have some role in education, it's gone way beyond that role to a negative effect – but that's another post.
            Cont'd…

          • Rifleman

            Wages have always been relative, they can jack the minimum wage to $15 bucks an hour and the result will be $10 hamburgers at McD's. Also the relative price of many things, especially electronics, has gone down over the last four decades, and that increases what the same wages will buy (for instance, I bought a 12V drill 10 years ago for $260, and can buy an 18V drill today for $160). I should mention the cost of some things, like automobiles and health care, have gone through the roof, due mostly to government regulation and interference in the market.

            Protecting the property of the top 2% helps the other 98% in several important ways. First, it's their wealth, protecting it is the right thing to do, and if the wealth of the upper minority isn't protected, the wealth of the other 98% isn't either. Second, the wealthy invest their wealth to grow the economy and create more wealth. Anything they do with that wealth, other than stuff their mattress with it, creates more wealth and jobs. Third, if wealth is secure here, more wealth will be kept here, increasing economic activity and revenue.

            Please check back tonight or tomorrow, as usual you packed a bunch of thought into a nice concise post that got my mind goin' and I only got partway through my reply before the time came (and passed, oops, lol.) to go to work.

        • Cindy

          Jim, why weren't your children paying their own student loans? I have a freshmen in college and he is paying his own way. His words to his father and me were "It is my education, why should you pay for it?"
          Also, what union workers don't understand is that the main problem is not with the workers it is with the leadership of the unions. Unions do not exist anymore to take care of the workers they exist to retain power for themselves. And I say this as a daughter of GM union employees. Unfortunately, the town that I am from at one time had over 50,000 GM jobs and now there is not 1 left. Factories have been torn down and GM is gone. The unions had a large hand in this happening.

          • Nick Shaw

            Right Cindy. Americans and in particular, unions, have mixed up what they are worth to an employer with how much they are owed by an employer. Not to say I agree with the outrageous salaries of some top executives, some of failing companies at that, but these amounts are miniscule compared to corporate income overall. If executive income was really a problem, the shareholders are the ones to address it. If the company is private, take a hike!

          • Jim

            Cindy I paid for my children's education because it was a committment I made when they were born. Neither my wife or I had a college education and I wanted to make sure my daughters all had a good start in the world. I've seen many parents who refused to pay for college because they were just simply selfish. Good for you your son wants to pay his own way.
            I disagree that the unions 'had a large hand' with the destruction of our factories. Most of the destruction of our economy, imho, began with Reagan and continued to this administration. Unlike many who frequent this site I do not blame one side over the other. Both sides of the aisle have contributed to this mess we have now. It works in their interest for the rest of us to argue over which side is right. I'm just amazed at those that continue to have their head in the sand like Nick and psn… above. The poster that makes $8.50 an hour and supports tax cuts for the wealthy is just plain on another planet.

          • Nick Shaw

            Jim, I applaud your commitment to your children but, don't come here and whine about how many hours you had to work, under tough conditions to fulfil your commitment. That was your choice! I'm not sure giving your daughters all that help without paying you back is the way to go. At least an effort to help you out would impress on them that nothing in life is free, particularly since they must know you worked incredibly long hours under tough conditions. Maybe that's just my upbringing. Or have they noticed? And why is my head in the sand? Can you refudiate (darn, I've been waiting a while to use that) what I said? Answer my question. Would you steal from others to get rich or just work hard and keep your fingers crossed? I know you will answer the latter so, why do you assume people who are now rich are crooks of some sort?

          • Jim

            Look, I paid for their college education, it was my decision and I earned the money to do it! I'm not whining, bragging nor complaining. My daughters all have very good jobs now and pay their taxes. They realize nothing is free and work hard and I believe they realize what it took to send them through college. So, in light of how our economy is going I feel fortunate that they can support themselves. Most people don't know how hard it is to work long hours every day of the week. Nothing personal about the 'head in the sand' comment. I just don't think either party has our best interests in mind. Politicians on both side of the aisle INHO are morally bankrupt. Someone who appears to be in lockstep with either side has IMHO their head in the sand!!

          • Jim

            I never said that people who are rich are crooks. Basically everything that gets done in Washington is influenced by money. Just look at all of the lobbyist groups. Most of them are financed by large corporations. I don't like high taxes any better than anyone else. If our government leaders took steps to downsize the government it would be easier to swallow high taxes to fix our problems. Why do we have such a large tax code?? How much of that tax code benefits someone who makes 80K per year vs someone who makes 500K per year? There is not enough room here to really lay my position out but I hope you get where I'm coming from. Got to run, this will be my last post for awhile.

          • Nick Shaw

            I see we can agree on some things. Both sides are morally bankrupt. I am certainly not in lockstep with any side. I just know what's fair and assuming rich folk are taking from you is definately not fair, that's envy. There are people in other countries Jim, that think you are stealing from them. A lot of people in a lot of countries are thinking this. Are they right Jim? Are you stealing food from their tables or are you just trying to do what's right for your girls and your family? Funny, they don't look at it that way. Think about that for a while then get back to me.

          • Jim

            I'm a little confused at your reply. What does 'people in other countries' thinking I'm stealing from them have anything to do with this discussion??? First you accuse me of calling rich people crooks then gravitate to what people in other countries think….. I guess I'm missing your point. Have you bothered to read, much less answer my questions regarding the tax code. The tax code comment should make part of my point. I have been saying the rich enjoy advantages the rest of us don't. Money is a controlling factor and pretty much always has been. People making 100K a year don't enjoy the same tax breaks as those making 500K a year. The irony here is when I see someone claiming to make $8.50 an hour sticking up for the rich, I don't think people are being honest!!

          • Nick Shaw

            Sorry Jim, I did answer you. I agree with you. A flat tax, as you suggest is the fair way to go. I used people in other lands, most of them making considerably less than the US average income simply as an example of "rich" versus "poor". It's all relative. You, for instance would be considered rich by the average Vietnamese. Do you think you should be forced share with him your wealth? I don't think so, though you may want to contribute to charity to help him out but, that's another story. Why do you assume the rich, compared to you, in America should be forced to share with you. Now, I don't mean you in particular but, as it stands now, the rich, (we'll say above $250K a year for example) pay the vast majority of the taxes that keep America going. I know, they have ways to avoid tax but what's wrong with everyone having skin in the game? A long way around to advocating a flat tax I guess.

          • Jim

            Our foreign trade deficit over the last 20 years is above $7 Trillion dollars. How does that make the bailout pale?? And along the way how many jobs have been sent to overseas manufacturing? I hope your son is able to get a job when he finishes college!!!

          • dgc

            Pt 1:
            Very interesting thread, that is if you consider the rampant economic fallacies that are thrown about without so much as even a link to data or supporting evidence. Let's use Jim as the example here. First, Jim, it’s clear that you don't know the difference between the annual "deficit" and aggregate national "debt", let alone the source of the imbalances. As it regards trade, one of the perennial major contributions to our trade imbalance is the cost of energy, NOT goods. And it only is going to get worse. Not only do we now compete globally for access to oil, but we actively continue to close off inexpensive and PROVEN access to domestic energy, whether nuclear or oil, as we pursue uncompetitive technologies that are not even yet out the laboratory let alone ready for mass production and use in the name of science that is not by any means settled. In case you missed it, this is a REGULATORY cost, not one from markets, and it has serious consequences for the competitiveness of companies that operate …

          • Jim

            Well, now we have someone who thinks they are an expert and the rest of us are idiots. First of all our foreign deficet does in fact have a huge impact on our economy. Because of the limitation on post lengths it's really hard to write a long reply. DGC is an oil driller…. he thinks all of our problems can be solved by 'drill baby drill'. No doubt the trade imbalance is contributed by our purchase of oil but how much of that is offset by the sale of the huge purchases of Boeing aircraft. I can provide links if you don't believe what I say…. but I haven't seen any links in your posts. I'm just amazed that you wish to play down the deficit by blaming it on the importation of oil. I guess in your mind the manufacturing that has been displaced from this country to places such as China have no impact on our economy.

            I have a bridge for sale!!!

          • Nick Shaw

            Jim, I know you said you were going away for awhile but, if you happen to come back, what possible connection is there between the bailout and the trade deficit? As to the burgeoning deficit of trade there are no easy answers. Well,… yes there is. When your government,at all levels, puts so many rules and regulations on a business that they can't make a product in America and compete with an import, you move your business overseas. Here's an example that many folks that work in plastics will back up for me. Why do you think wind turbines are mostly built overseas? "Cause a company building those huge blades, arguably the most expensive part of a turbine, are made of fiberglass. Do you know the hoops a company has to jump through to make anything out of fiberglass in America are now required? Look it up, ask around, then multiply that by thousands of industries. Now, I don't disagree that there are industries that need to be regulated but, don't complain when they go somewhere else so they can make the things you want to buy!

          • Jim

            Hi Nick, I believe one of the real problems with our economy has been the transfer of wealth from the US to Mexico, China, Pakistan, Vietnam, etc. China S. Korea and Japan have been the worst of our trading partners. These countries limit what we can import to their country (and manufacture) while they have virtually unimpeded access to our markets. It's pretty easy to research this so I'm not putting in any links. As far as I'm concerned we should treat our trading partners with the same rules they use for us. However, many people call that protectionism. We can build the wind turbines here in the US, why buy them from China with US tax dollars??. So many companies wish to evade safety regulations while enjoying low labor costs they would rather go overseas. This has nothing to do with Unions!! I'm guessing you have not worked in any industry that posed health hazards?? If you have you would appreciate the safety regulations in place that would help to make sure you would return home safe at the end of your workday.

          • Jim

            To be honest, I'm frustrated with trying to get you to understand what we are giving away by sending manufacturing to places like China. It's a huge mistake and you can see what the transfer of wealth has done for China and taken away from this economy. Favorite talking points of the supporters of 'free trade' such as NGC are outlined above. These people just don't understand!

          • Nick Shaw

            What can I say? I agree with a lot of what you have written. I don't know why you are frustrated, I already understand manufacturing should not be outsourced or America itself is at risk. I, in fact, have worked in three industries that posed serious health and safety risks way back in the 60s and 70s and managed to live through it. Unfair trade practices contribute to the decline of industry in the US, true but, there are many other reasons that are homegrown. Regulation, some really stupid with it's accompanying paperwork (think lemonade stands run by children for a good example in the news recently, America has gone regulation crazy), taxes and labor, not just the wages but, all the rest of the costs associated with maintaining someone on the payroll all serve to drive the price of a product up. Not to mention energy. I too, believe in drill here drill now. Then throw in the penchant of any normal human to get the best deal on something they want to buy and you have a perfect storm that drives business offshore.

          • Jim

            Hi Nick: One last message here…. I believe we agree on many things. I also feel there are many writers on this website who really understand US and world events and many that don't. One thing I find in common when I talk to right and left supporters is they seem to complain about many of the same things; Unfair media coverage and how one side has no respect for the other. It's a fact of life today in the US political system. Beck and those like him (on both sides of the aisle) generally stoke these emotions and perpetuate the divide. While we argue amongst ourselves about which side is right our politicians keep doing harm to the US. Another common behavior with those on the right and left is they love to call you names if you don't happen to agree with their position. Enjoyed the discussion, have a good one!

          • dgc

            pt 2:

            in the US. This, in turn, will impact the ability of those companies to hire domestically, especially marginally skilled or unskilled workers. COSTS matter, unless you are the Government with arbitrary and unchecked taxing authority. As to your other comment regarding ‘out sourcing’, did you ever consider that we conversely benefit from’in sourcing”? For example, Toyota, VW, Mercedes and numerous other industrial manufacturers have set up operations in the US AND have been extremely successful here. Of course, they established their operations in areas of the country that were not just really more welcoming – the Sunbelt vs. the Rustbelt – but also had a HIGHLY educated workforce that believed in their business model. That's right: it meant none of the rigidity of unions and the establishment of merit-based work. Notice that none of these domestic automakers – yes, they are as domestic as GM, Chrysler or Ford – had any of the catastrophic liabilities that led to the insolvency and …

          • dgc

            pt 3:

            failure of GM and Chrysler. Finally, perhaps you should be more upset with public sector employees, especially the professors at universities? Not only are they unjustifiably compensated at least twice as much more than their counterparts in the private-sector (paid for by the tax payer, of course), but the rate of tuition growth remains stubbornly 3 – 4 times the rate of inflation. Why is that? Is a degree in history really worth upwards of $45,000 per year at the Ivy League? I doubt it! So, watch for that bubble to pop soon too!

            In the end, you are indeed whining. You have an ax to grind that is rooted in class warfare instead of real information. As the late Democrat Senator Patrick Moynehan said: “you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.” If you disagree with this, perhaps you should risk your own capital as a business owner or entrepreneur in the current regulatory nightmare and see how well you do? You just might see the world a little differently.

          • Jim

            DGC — I'm surprised you think I'm whining. If you think that because I object to unfettered capitalism it means I'm whining then I will accept that. Toyota and the like came over here getting huge tax subsidies from local and state governments. I suppose you think that is okay while you complain about tax money going to help domestic industries. Which way do you want it? How much of your own money have you 'risked' as your own capital starting up a business?? Right wing talking points seem to be your strong point!

          • trickyblain

            —Jim, why weren't your children paying their own student loans?—

            Why don't you mind your own business?

          • Jim

            tricky…. if you knew how to read you would already have your answer. What business do you think I should have to mind??

          • Nick Shaw

            No Jim, I think Tricky is on your side.

          • trickyblain

            For that one point I was, sure. Irks me when the "leave me alone" folks dole out parenting advice to people that…gasp..pay for their kids education (?)

            Thanks for your replies below, Nick…need to get some actual work done but will reply tom morning (pac time) re: Beck and patriotism vs. Beck and, well, Beckism.

            BTW: I noticed you said you weren't American (I didn't even think of the "green card" thing). Just out of basic curiosity, if Nick Shaw is your 'real' name – Aussie, Canadian, Brit, German or other?

          • Nick Shaw

            Of course it's real! Canadian, now in Costa Rica.

          • bubba4

            you lucky b*stard….I love Costa Rica…

            What part of the country are you in?

          • Jim

            Sorry for the reply. I didn't realize you were replying to quotes.

      • guest

        Then you haven't been listening. Tune into Glenn Beck almost any night to hear the high pitched whine of the tea kettle. Conservative Christians are under attack, traditional values are under attack, white people are under attack, we want our country back, blah blah blah.

        You seem awfully upset about taxes, why don't you turn some of that anger on the military welfare system, which both parties support? The most bloated inefficient bureaucratic institution out there, sucking up over 50 cents of every tax dollar. But no, you'll recycle tired old stereotypes about how poor people are scamming poor little old you and your hubby.

        • Nick Shaw

          Obviously you don't tune in Beck very often. Both parties need to be shaken up, as Beck believes too BTW, and I have no doubt that, given some true conservatives, the defense budget could be slashed without leaving the troops in the lurch or unprotected. It's funny that you, probably a The One voter, am I right, elected a guy based on slogans and platittudes yet, you expect the very minutia of the conservative platform open for inspection before you give them the time of day. And where did I say poor people were "scamming" anyone?

          • guest

            This was a response to IreneAdler at the top, not you, don't know why it showed up way down here. The scamming comment was for her.

            I do watch Beck and he is in fact always whining about victim hood as I described. I didn't vote for Obama but i think calling him "The One" is stupid and childish, as well as a complete misrepresentation most of his supporters. But what do you expect when idiots like Beck try and compare him to Mao? It's such complete nonsense I'm actually embarrassed for these ignorant losers. But more than that I resent the stupidity they inject into the political process, we have enough real problems without tea party nutcases running around screaming about communism and Kenyan tribesmen.

            By the way, what president isn't elected on slogans and platitudes?

          • Nick Shaw

            Okay, I'll use Anointed One from now on. Better?

  • stephencuz

    What gets me is they insist they fight the good fight against "imperialists." In other words, a class struggle. But the fact is in AMERICA these rosters change daily. You can be very poor and get rich. You can be very rich and become poor. There is no established "class" like they like to pretend. It is a straw man enemy. They are haters of America. They are Communists. They are enmity to and an enemy of America and should be treated as such. Call them out. Most of their membership (Unions) are unable to go against the leadership. This portends to …eventually, N. Korea. People dancing in the streets (because they are happy!?!) over Kim Jong's 26 year old son being given the rank of a 4 star general. These people had no choice! The same principle is in action here. The union leaders and affiliate haters of America seek only power at the cost of America ~ including their own membership.

    • guest

      Don't let the facts get in your way while you rant. yes, there is class mobility in the US, but most people born rich, stay rich, and most born poor stay poor. There is no equality of opportunity, opportunity is structured according to wealth, connections etc. And income mobility has actually been declining for about 20 years, after a "golden age" between 1950-1975. You can continue with your nonsense now.

      • Boogie's Daddy

        No one will force people to strive for excellence. By contrast the DOE has been systematically discouraging that notion since right about the time of your "golden age".
        The "born rich" most likely stay rich as a side effect of private education. The opposite is most likely true of "born poor" who are doomed to the most highly funded public school system in the world.

        • guest

          even though the causes you cite are incorrect, you confirm my point about class mobility. It is more the exception than the rule. DOE is a problem, no argument there, but the issues with public schools cannot be blamed on them, at least not entirely. Everything from the worship of standardized testing (to the exclusion of actual teaching) to vast differential in spending/resources, etc. between schools, also a class issue, are to blame. DOE is part of that problem, for sure.

      • Nick Shaw

        Did you ever give a thought to the idea that the golden age you speak of was actually the beginning of the welfare age, when government handouts became more and more common.Thus fewer people strived to get out of the "poorer" classes 'cause, hey, why bother? The lefties are telling them they don't stand a chance (a lesson you seem to have hung onto well) so, WE will look after you and make those evil rich people pay your rent, food and gas. People are people and, given their druthers, will tend to be as unproductive as possible, for the most part. People like you guest, just try to blame human nature on someone else.

        • guest

          Actually, as conservatives point out, the origins of the welfare state lie in the Great Depression and the 1930, not the 1950s. And your narrative is complete fantasy, and you know you can't back it up. Welfare and government entitlements until the late 50s, early 60s were predominantly for white people, and no one minded then. Federal "handouts" for mortgages and the highway system to subsidize suburbanization, the GI Bill, which Blacks were eligible to receive but often couldn't spend b/c of segregation, etc. The first three decades of govt handouts were to create the white middle class.
          http://www.amazon.com/When-Affirmative-Action-Whi

          This idea that welfare payments undermined attempts by poor people to escape poverty is total BS, welfare picked up just as the US de-industrialized. The entire labor market shifted and work opportunities for the poor shriveled. No one seemed to care until, yikes, one day white factory workers were stuck working at Wal Mart and McDonalds b/c capital decided it could make more money in Mexico, China, etc. But, yea, blame the poor, immigrants, etc.

  • Frank(ly) M'Dear

    Poor Washington D,C. is going to get stuck with a massive clean-up bill. Leftists littler like crazy. Also, the Left is SO VERY PRONE TO VIOLENCE that I expect there to be fairly extensive vandalism associated with this event.

    Watch the Left get hoist with its own petard. This is going to be RICH…

  • John

    All my favourite people in one place at one time. Anyone got any spare anthrax?

  • blotto

    So all these union workers are just going to leave their jobs for this rally? How can that be possible? What they take a vacation day? If these employers had any stones they would fire the whole lot of union workers. I am sick and tired of union workers telling the rest of America how to conduct business.

    And for any white man that goes there to support these racist and anti-American groups should be ashamed of himself. Not only that they should feel pretty stupid since most of the groups there hate white males.

    I will continue to say the same thing: When will we, as real Americans, realize that the left and us cannot live together anymore here in America. Somebody has to leave. And if that takes a civil war then so be it.

    • bubba4

      The "left" and "us". You poor, poor b*stard.

      And you're sick of the unions telling you this or that….when has a union ever told you to do anything. FPM has told you what "they" think feel and believe…that's what you should be sick of.

      • Boogie's Daddy

        And now YOU are telling someone what they should feel about an opinion?

        But union leaders wouldn't do that would they? Having been there I can say with authority and experience that that is exactly what they do.

        • Boogie's Daddy

          And another thing…..if the Unions are not telling people what to do who ordered and paid for the charter busses?
          This must be one of those organic type nexus where the busses and the "25,000" individual thinkers arrive at the same place at the same time with the same destination.

          It's a flippin' miracle!

          • bubba4

            Oh by " I am sick and tired of union workers telling the rest of America how to conduct business." you meant in how they organize their members to rallies and so forth? That doesn't make a lot of sense…but whatever.

            Who do you think arranges charter buses for teaparty events? Typically larger organized events have to be back by an ORGANIZATION.

      • Nick Shaw

        I'm beginning to see what kind of person you are, bubba. Yes, I am slow. Forgive me, I give people the benefit of the doubt too much. Is my spelling okay? How about my grammar? You know, when Andy Stern former head of the SEIU, spends an awful lot of time at the White House and The One says to SEIU, "your agenda is my agenda" one would hardly be faulted for thinking unions are telling him (blotto) what to do. Just 'cause it's channelled through the POTUS doesn't make it any less so. Wait until they have card check, ahh yes, promoted by POTUS, then tell me the unions are not telling me what to do.

  • Spider

    Since the 60s the American left has just assumed that they own the streets (for protest)
    and the media. Neither of these things are true any more and they can't stand it. Now that they no longer get a free pass they might actually have to engage in debate and defend their arguments and policies on their merits (which they will always loose). So It looks to me as if the tables have turned. Ha Ha Ha

  • Nick Shaw

    Beck envy says it all. I think the Methodist spokesperson got it so wrong when she said "a march like this hasn't been accomplished since Dr. King (err, Glenn Beck) did it in 1963 (umm, last month)" These clowns are so full of envy that they don't see Beck actually re-inforced the goals of Dr. King. Judge a man by his character was Dr. King's credo. This collection of losers all want to judge a man by his wallet and how much they can take from it with the least effort. It never fails to amaze me, as well, that, despite the horrific effects of communism upon the people that have lived and continue to live under it, people want to demonstrate in support of it and in this case, associate with it. Mind boggling until you look at the state of education in America. Time to wake up guys!

    • bubba4

      Who is demonstrating in support of communism?

      • Nick Shaw

        Please Bubba, if you invite communists to your party don't be surprised if people think you kind' like and support communists. Look at the list of sponsors!

        • bubba4

          I'm glad you can read through the lines and see the communist plot behind everything. Did it ever occur to you dingbats that this is how rich multinational corporations demonize workers all over the world. As our middle class and manufacturing base has shrivelled up and atrophied, you guys have cheered on as from the seats of a Roman arena with this ridiculous communist bs.

          • Nick Shaw

            Nice pivot away from your original premise. Now that there are communists at the rally you have decided they're harmless. How do you feel about "radical" Islam? That's a myth too? In America you are allowed to think that way and I'm allowed to think my way. Problem is, if you are wrong but convince enough people to go to sleep, I could get killed. If I'm right and convince enough people to wake up, maybe neither of us gets killed. You, specifically, I could care less so, I won't be writing to you anymore.

          • bubba4

            "Nice pivot away from your original premise"

            What's my original premise? That Union workers aren't communists by definition?

            "Now that there are communists at the rally you have decided they're harmless."

            WTF rally are you even talking about…the one that happens tomorrow? Are the communists already there? You throw the accusation of communist around so carelessly, it's hard to take you seriously.

            "How do you feel about "radical" Islam? That's a myth too?"

            I didn't say communism was a myth…I questioned your assertion that these Americas are communists because you decide you want to self righteously declare them so.

            "I won't be writing to you anymore."

            That's OK…your opinion is the FPM line anyway…so a bit redundant.

  • tanstaafl

    All of the usual suspects……..

  • sue805

    It's a socio/marxist rally of the first kind!! I hope they have fun, but they can't come close to Beck's rally!! We will not give in to socialism, we will continue to fight at the ballot box to protect the Constitution against the liberals' increased degradation and we will fight the corruption that exists in our government. Every day we lose another small freedom. We are counting the days until NOVEMBER 2 and hope to knock the wheels off Pelosi's and Reid's socialist agenda!

  • C.R.

    THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A LOT OF AMERICAN SUPPORT–SINCE IT IS A COMMUNIST RALLY!

  • American thinker

    Who is John Galt?

  • badaboo

    Civil War ? Anthrax ? What ? You think the Teabaggers are the only ones allowed to make fools of themselves ?? LOL….oh WHINERS….Thou protest too much …you folks are amusing .

  • neils60

    When MSNBC, and other members of the lamestream media, report on this event, they'll fail to disclose that almost all of the attendees' transportation/food costs have been heavily subsidized by each of the elitist's groups that have sponsored this non-event. Plus, don't be surprised that when attendance figures are released, 50,000 people will be reported as 500,000.

    • bubba4

      instead of lamestream media…why don't you use the terms "Fox" and "not Fox" so we can all know what you're talking about.

  • Nick Shaw

    Why is it that lefties like badaloo come to this site and demonstrate the symptoms of Tourette's Syndrome, "blah, blah, blah, Teabaggers, blah, blah"? And niels60, of course the number of attendees will be overestimated. I don't doubt it will be large, only because people will be paid to attend, but we should hope there are more than 10K 'cause that's how many will be required to clean up the mess. Union members only of course! If they were non-union, twelve.

    • Jim

      Cheap shot to union members Nick. Union members usually are not paid to attend a rally.

      • Nick Shaw

        Jim, Jim, Jim, please! I did not say union members will be paid to show up. I know for a fact that, given recent reports of day labourers hired to demonstrate for Dim politicians (see Malkin today) there will be paid "show uppers". My reference to unions was a true one. To clean up the Mall afterwards is a union job. I may have been snarky to say 12 non-union workers could do it cheaper, by implication. But, unions have brought this kind of generality on themselves. Sorry I don't have the link but you know about the union in Philly, I think, complaining about Boy Scouts voluntering to clean up a hiking trail? Cheap shot? Sure, but deserved.

        • Jim

          Nick, it's true the unions have shot themselves in the foot on occasion. But there are an awful lot of union haters. Many here on this site would quickly rush to the accusation of 'class envy' just because someone else questions how much in taxes the rich should pay, just look at some of the posts here and I look at it as shooting from the hip. Union workers have had decent wages and good benefit packages (not always). I have also felt that many of those who wish to criticize union jobs are just plain jealous another form of class envy. It's the old 80-20 rule, 20% make the other 80% look bad. The same is true for lawyers, ceos, bankers, insurance companies and investment firms. However, this rule does not apply to politicians. It's probably more like 95% of the politicians make the other 5% look bad!

          • Nick Shaw

            Jimmy, I don't know who is turning who here. I do agree with most of what you have to say though so, you can probably count that as a win for you. BUT, you have to admit, I do have a point sometimes too. Thanks for the frank discussion without the screeching some resort to. (Yeah, I know I used "fool" once but, that was before I got to know you)

          • Jim

            Hi Nick: Absolutely you have a point, I never meant to imply there was no merit to your position(s). I've found that if you have ever had a chance to walk a mile in someone else's shoes it oftentimes changes your outlook. Over the years I've worked both in union shops and in management. I believe I've seen the worst of both and the best of both. One of the things that galls me about many posters is how fast they wish to criticize 'lazy and unproductive' union workers while they sit in their cubicles posting messages and browsing the internet most of the day while getting paid. Seems to me like the kettle calling the pot black. Got barn painting to do this weekend….. maybe I'll catch you on another forum.

  • Mikhail

    Well you have got to love how the looney right wing gets so bent out of shape when they hear about a counter rally to the fear mongering:) It will be massive and certainly more diverse than preacher's Beck's march. As per the really amusing idea of "envy" I can guarantee you that I felt more pity than anything else for Beck's parade. You really have got to work on genuine accusations, oh wait you guys don't work that way!

    • ebonystone

      Fear-mongering has been the Democratic left's standard operating procedure before every election for the last 40 years or more. They tell the blacks that the Republicans will re-instate JimCrow, and the retirees that they'll take away Social Security.

      • Jim

        Actually the Bush administration wanted to privatize Social Security. If they had succeeded, can you imagine what the fund would have been like after the stock market crash?? It would have been tantamount to taking it away. From what I'm reading the Republicans are again talking about privatizing Social Security.

        • ebonystone

          (1) Markets go up, and they go down, but over the long haul, they go up. The DJ average first broke 1000 in 1972. Before the recent downturn it hit 14000 –an average annual growth of 7.5%. Even now it's over 10000 — or 6.2% avg annual growth.
          (2) For IRAs and 401-ks, the stock market isn't the only available investment; there are bonds, govt bonds, municipal bonds, money-market certificates and funds, real-estate funds, etc.
          (3) The privatization proposals I saw called only for allowing individuals to put part of their SS taxes into private schemes — typically 2% or 3 %, leaving 3.5% or 4.5% still going into SS. Presumably the Republicans expected that in time, with the success of privatization, there would be pressure to allow more into private acounts. No one ever suggested halting present payments to present recipients — which is what the Dems claimed the Republicans meant to do.

          • Jim

            Actually you are correct about the privatization proposals. There were 3 reform models. Those plans would guarantee income (like social security) after the worker puts in 30 years or so. Very similar to social security, just another way of doing it. Reading the descriptions led me to believe payouts would be guaranteed. So if that's the case how is it any different than what is currently in place?
            Markets went up and they went down. I believe we are now in uncharted waters regarding our economy and you can not any longer use past history as a model. So much of our economic wealth has been (and continues to be) transferred to other countries that we (I believe) will continue in an economic downturn. When you are spending more money than you are taking in….. bad things happen.

  • Nick Shaw

    Mikhail you really don't know what Beck's rally was all about do you? All you know you got from HuffPo, Kos, PMSNBC and the alphabet networks, right? Tell the truth now, can you? Fear mongering you say. Perhaps you got them confused. The one with Race Baiter Sharpton on the same day in the same area, wasn't Beck's rally. Sharpton, you know, the guy who hangs out with the New Black Panthers and Farrah-con. God I'll be glad after November 2 when people like you will be whining about injustice from your holes in the baseboards again.

    • trickyblain

      Why don't you tell us Nick? What was it about?
      But here's my challenge to you. Avoid simplistic catch phrases. No "restoring honor" (still have mine, you?). No "reducing the size of gov'" without telling us how nad what can be cut. No "falling on our knees to God" type stuff.
      The rally it seemed to me, was a pseudoreligious/pseudopolitical display of Christian nationalism. tell me how I'm wrong.
      I've watched Beck quite a bit. I've really tried to come away with a coherent message, but only see a crazy person with crazy theories and really, really, horrible history. He seems to really hate this country – he talks about how horrible it is, how we have no future if we remain, well, the people we are. Can you distill his message — the message that has made him so popular — for those of us that see it differently? How is he a positive, and not a negative, force?

  • Nick Shaw

    Tricky I can answer you but, I have to be simplistic. What is wrong with restoring honor in America? As an agnostic I can be bored with those telling me I have to look to God for my salvation. I don't need God to tell me what is right and what is wrong. Here, I'll use a simple example. is there something wrong with a society that has so many rules and regulations that the fastest growing (maybe I'm wrong here) occupation is trial lawyers? This is to address the incredible number of fools that spill hot coffee, HOT coffee (remember, this is an example) in their laps and expect others to be responsible and pay for their foolishness in the amount of hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is an example of what America has become and there is no honor in it. This same kind of example can be used for the "gimme" population at large only the government has become the insurance company that has to pay. If you cannot understand where this is headed unless someone points it out for you, more's the pity.

  • Nick Shaw

    Further, if you come away with the impression that Beck hates his country, well..there really is no hope for America and people who want to be free the world over if folks like you are the majority.

  • TAPNY

    Nick, you are exactly right. I couldn't have said it better myself. The truth is the truth, no matter your religion or lack there of. You nailed it.
    When the whiners and lefties are devastated, they will whine louder and louder.

  • Nick Shaw

    Thank you TAPNY! Sometimes I feel like I might as well just bang my head against the wall when dealing with lefty /progs. Yeah, I know tricky, maybe I've banged it too much already. The good thing is one can anticipate their answers. You know, the odd thing is, I'm not even an American nor do I live in America. I'm not bucking for a green card either (see, anticipating the lefty crack) You guys just need to pull yourself together 'cause a lot of the world depends on you, even if they don't show it much.

  • Wesley69

    Beck organized a rally around the idea of restoration of truth and honor, celebrating belief in God, family and patriotism. Only one reference made by Sarah Palin could be classified as political, otherwise it was almost like a religious revival. The leftist media tried to down play the size of the crowd, but Beck, thinking ahead, had pictures taken from the air of the Mall. From the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to the Washington Monument, The people who came were not angry and were not forced to come. They were told to leave their signs at home. They came to answer Beck's call of to rally for America. Remember, one man.

    ONWT will be a political rally. It will celebrate the Progressive leftist agenda and ridicule the Tea Party and those who follow Beck and Palin. They will charge that Republicans want to kill ObamaCare, take old people’s Social Security and stop a woman’s right to choose to abort her baby. SEIU will bus employees in. Good ole unions. The renamed, splintered “ACORN” will probably be there. The atmosphere of this rally will be very different. The leftist media will claim over 500,000 and report on it like it was Woodstock. Even the President may chime in. Information about this rally can be found on the Communist Party website.

    What will these rallies prove? Which one will have captured the mood of the American people? We will have to wait until November elections to see the results.
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
    Thomas Jefferson

  • Nick Shaw

    Okay, one last kick at the can. I was using examples, you know what that is right? I could have used a million different examples and I could have linked to them but, why bother. Everyone knows the coffee story, it's not an urban myth. Everyone has seen the ads for lawyers who will look after every slight ever given to man and make them PAY, every 15 minutes on TV so, using lawyers as an example does not, in the least, make me uncomfortable. You seem to think conservatives are monolithically behind Repubs but, you are wrong again. We are just as pissed off at them as the Dims but you refuse to see it. Both parties have become the same, trashing America through progressivism and creeping socialism. If you want your country the same as any other, go ahead, fight for it. I happen to believe America is exceptional and should stick to it's founding principles. Go ahead, I'm ready for your flacid argument, "you want to take us back to the 18th century". You know that's not true but, go ahead. I'm not writing to you anymore.

    • bubba4

      No…you just watch TV and observe the limited world around you and you decide what the world is like….and you STICK TO IT. Why look something up when you "know" and it seems right.

      There are a lot of stupid lawsuits…it's because thats one of the only forms of recourse people have in this country to settle a dispute…and thanks to media and the internet you can see them all.

  • Nick Shaw

    I am delighted to be the first to report (on this thread) 2/10 on the epic fail of the ONWT rally! It proved to be everything anyone could expect of it (though it's too early for the mountains of trash pics) Four hundred organizations, including the usual suspects like the Communist party and they still couldn't attract more than 100 to 150K (I'm being very generous here so as not to be accused…well you know) despite Trumpka crowing about satellite photos (my God, this man is a tool to think we believe there are photos from space of this thing! Well you gotta' think of his audience) And despite Special Ed Shultz and his boast that he could get more than Beck on a bad day. I happen to know that all 42 of Special's audience actually did show (they were paid of course). Liberals are such clowns and they love to prove it! The comments at the AP site are well worth reading sorry there are over 10K as of this writing, but, the vast majority are from the "good" guys. Bring on November and God willing 2012!