Separating Islam From Terrorism


Barack Obama has removed all mention of Islam from the National Security Strategy document, which during the Bush Administration said: “The struggle against militant Islamic radicalism is the great ideological conflict of the early years of the 21st century.” Obama apparently agrees with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said Monday: “Islam and terrorism cannot be mentioned together, because they are contradictory to each other.”

Erdogan, incidentally, also famously said this about “moderate Islam”: “These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” And that statement itself demonstrates one of the key fallacies of the Obama Administration’s stance that Islam has nothing to do with, uh, Islamic terrorism.

Now that the idea that Islam and terrorism have anything to do with one another has been relegated to the dustbin of history, it’s worth asking why anyone got this idea in the first place. Was it sheer bigotry? Racism? Let’s see. Could it have been from Osama bin Laden, who once praised Allah for the Qur’an’s “Verse of the Sword” (9:5), which instructs Muslims to “slay the unbelievers wherever you find them”? Or maybe it was from Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, who once thundered: “Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you!…There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths [sayings of the prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

Maybe it was from the British Muslim Omar Brooks, who said in 2005 that it was imperative for Muslims to “instill terror into the hearts of the kuffar” and added: “I am a terrorist. As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist.” Or maybe it was from the Qur’an itself, which tells Muslims to “strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah” (8:60). Maybe it was from the perpetrators of the 15,000-plus terror attacks committed in the name of Islam since 9/11.

But a recent conference of Islamic scholars in Mardin, Turkey, has given apparent intellectual heft to the Obama/Erdogan contention. Discussing a fourteenth-century fatwa by the Islamic scholar Ibn Taymiyya, a favorite of contemporary Islamic jihadists, the scholars declared: “anyone who seeks support from this fatwa for killing Muslims or non-Muslims has erred in his interpretation and has misapplied the revealed texts.”

That sounds great. It is unequivocal. But what it is unequivocal about is the use of Ibn Taymiyya’s fatwa to justify killing Muslims or non-Muslims. It unequivocally declares that illegitimate. It does not declare illegitimate the killing of Muslims or non-Muslims itself.

I am not saying that these scholars did not mean to condemn the killing of Muslims and non-Muslims in the name of Islam. Maybe they did. But they did not do so by condemning the use of Ibn Taymiyya’s fatwa, for there are plenty of other Islamic sources that justify the killing of unbelievers.

The scholars issued what they called the “New Mardin Declaration,” saying: “Ibn Taymiyya’s fatwa concerning Mardin can under no circumstances be appropriated and used as evidence for leveling the charge of kufr (unbelief) against fellow Muslims, waging revolt against rulers, deeming their lives and property freely accessible to Muslims, terrorizing those who enjoy safety and security, acting treacherously towards those who live (in harmony) with fellow Muslims or with whom fellow Muslims live (in harmony) via the bond of citizenship and peace.”

Here again, the focus is very narrow: the New Mardin Declaration seems to discuss only Ibn Taymiyya’s fatwa, not the larger question of the Islamic justification for these things outside of that fatwa. But in any case, the part of the Declaration quoted above offers no comfort to unbelievers concerned about being targeted by jihadists. It is only concerned that Muslims do not declare other Muslims to be unbelievers — which is indeed a favorite practice of Salafis in general — and that they do not revolt against rulers (which is probably a slap to Al-Qaeda for waging jihad against the House of Saud, etc.).

It does also rule out “acting treacherously towards those who live (in harmony) with fellow Muslims or with whom fellow Muslims live (in harmony) via the bond of citizenship and peace,” but leaves unclear what exactly might constitute this treachery. This may forbid Muslims in West to commit violent jihad attacks against non-Muslims in their adoptive countries, but it remains unclear whether Muslims in Western countries would be “acting treacherously” by working in non-violent ways to impose elements of Sharia. Would CAIR’s efforts to smear and defame anti-jihadists, and intimidate Americans into being afraid to report suspicious activity by Muslims, constitute “acting treacherously”? Would efforts to secure special privileges for Muslims in workplaces, schools, and public places like airports constitute “acting treacherously”?

The New Declaration said that the distinction in Islamic theology between the dar al-harb, the house of war, and the dar al-Islam, house of Islam, as outmoded, “based on ijtihad (juristic reasoning) that was necessitated by the circumstances of the Muslim world, then and the nature of the international relations prevalent at that time.” The Declaration said that in the modern age, circumstances “had changed with international treaties and nation states.”

That’s reasonable, but it raises another question: if circumstances change again, might all this “reform” be out the window? Is the New Mardin Declaration a matter of an evolved understanding of core principles — i.e., a genuine reform — or is it simply a temporary expedient?

On jihad, the New Declaration stated: “Muslim scholars, throughout the ages, have always stressed and emphasized that the jihad that is considered the pinnacle of the religion of Islam, is not of one type, but of many, and actually fighting in the Path of God is only one type. The validation, authorization, and implementation of this particular type of Jihad is sanctioned by the Shariah to only those who lead the community (actual heads of states).

Great. There are many types of jihad. But there is no rejection of the supremacist character of jihad — i.e., its goal to impose Sharia upon non-Muslims polities. All this is saying is that there are many ways to do that. And that “this particular type of Jihad” — i.e., not all types — is the province of the state to sanction. Thus Osama bin Laden, who couches his jihad as defensive, which he must do since he recognizes that the office of caliph, the only person authorized in Sunni Islam to declare offensive jihad, is vacant, would find nothing in the New Mardin Declaration that would stop him. Defensive jihad in traditional Islamic theology does not need the sanction of the state, but becomes the obligation of every individual Muslim as soon as an Islamic land is attacked.

And the New Mardin Declaration goes on to say just that:

This is because such a decision of war is a political decision with major repercussions and consequences. Hence, it is not for a Muslim individual or Muslim group to announce and declare war, or engage in combative jihad, whimsically and on their own. This restriction is vital for preventing much evil from occurring, and for truly upholding Islamic religious texts relevant to this matter.

The basis of the legitimacy of jihad is that it is either to repel/resist aggression: “Fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah likes not the transgressors.” (Qur’an, 2:190), or to aid those who are weak and oppressed: “And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?” (Qur’an, 4:75), or in defense of the freedom of worshiping: “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged; – and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid.” (Qur’an, 22:39). It is not legitimate to declare war because of differences in religion, or in search of spoils of war.”

Osama has quoted Qur’an 22:39 in his communiques. He is waging defensive jihad, not “war because of differences in religion, or in search of spoils of war.” The problem is that with unbelief itself constituting aggression for some Islamic authorities, and given the Qur’anic command to fight unbelievers until “religion is all for Allah” (8:39), it is cold comfort to unbelievers, and no restraint for jihadists, to remind them that they should only be fighting aggression.

There is here no simple and straightforward declaration that Muslims should not fight non-Muslims and attempt to subjugate them under Sharia. And that is still the problem. Obama and Erdogan and the rest are demanding that Islam be separated from terrorism, and yet the conceptual apparatus establishing a peaceful Islam has never been presented. We are all supposed to take it on faith. But the stakes are too high for that.

  • http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm Alexander Gofen

    Terrorism and Islam are inseparable. Indeed, Islam encourages and promotes violent submission of the enemies (i.e. us). But why should we care at all about "fine details" in that absolutely hostile back dropped "religion"?

    Not everything in the world belongs within our Borders and Culture. And if there is anything that absolutely does not belong here, it is exactly Islam!

    Moslems do not belong to a Judeo-Christian nation, period. What business may have "good Moslems" in a Christian nation but to undermine the Judeo-Christian foundations of this nation?!

    "So long as there is this accursed book [Koran], there will be no peace in the world."
    William Ewart Gladstone (1809-1898)

    See also a brilliant Churchill's quote here in the end
    http://www.resonoelusono.com/Imminent.htm

    explaining why Islam became the main threat to the civilization.

  • logdon

    Mohammad Sidique Khan (20 October 1974 – 7 July 2005) was the oldest of the four suicide bombers responsible for the 7 July 2005 London bombings, in which bombs were detonated on three London Underground trains and one bus in central London suicide attacks, killing 52 people excluding the attackers and injured over 700. Khan bombed the Edgware Road train in which six people died, plus himself.

    On 1 September 2005, a videotape emerged featuring Khan. ….In the film, Khan declares "I and thousands like me have forsaken everything for what we believe. Your democratically elected governments continually perpetrate atrocities against my people all over the world. Your support makes you directly responsible. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation."

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

      The only problem with what Khan said is that he's wrong. There are no continually perpetrated atrocities. Except in his own mind, perhaps. Arselifters don't need an excuse to terrorize. The koran commands them.

      • Justin

        "No continually perpetrated atrocities"? So the 40 year illegal occupation of Palestine never happened? Collateral damage in Iraq and Afghanistan never happened? What rock are you living under? These atrocities have been documented. I guess in your imagination war cimes against Muslims aren't really war crimes because Muslims aren't human like you.

        • Martin K

          There was no "Palestine" as a independent state, in fact all arab nations have refused the two state solution in 1947! When was therefore "Palestine" as a State created? It does NOT exist! Why do politicians of today demand a "two state solution" if this sovereign state is already there? And as long as Israel has no right to exist as a state, its size would not even matter! Israel could have used the whole area for itself! But of course you are aware that Jordan took the part that was to be the "arab Palestinian state during the arab-israel war?" Now how can a real country like Israel “occupy” land of a state that doesn't exist? When Israel got f.e. the West-Bank back it didn't “take it” from a “Palestine” state, but from “Jordan!” So how big as chunk of Land will Jordan return to its own arab brothers that they will have their own state? Did Israel get all the land that was meant for the “arab muslims from Jordan” In fact on the same day, as Israel declared its independence the arab states announced only a arab civil authority over the whole region, with the goal to completely demolish any "Israelite" state. Had they also won the war, can we assume that there would be a state of Israel? HARDLY! Given the hatred seen by Muslims toward Jews, even in far away places like the town I live in:

          OK I've seen Muslim youth pick a fight with a Jewish boy here a few months back. Hey this was in Vienna Austria! Muslims fight Jews over the issue of a Palestine State, far from Israel!

          • Justin

            You've read too much Likud propaganda. Rather, get your non-biased information here:
            http://www.justvision.org/encounterpoint

          • 9-11 Infidel

            And you are dissembling. Perhaps you read too much Quutab or maybe Said?

          • Martin K.

            Justin I don't read propaganda, besides you are not impartial yourself . You defend Islam. Just tell me in your own words how my argument is false? DOES A INDEPENDENT State of Palestina exist already, it's a rather simple Question don't you agree? On can invade a country only if it exists. Gaza was taken by Egypt and the Westbank by Jordan, was this not a historical fact?

        • 9-11 Infidel

          Oh and how about the 1400 years of Muslim terrorism perpetrated against the world. I guess those 600 million Hindus that were murdered by Islam doesn't count for much eh?

        • gravelrash

          Israel is not an illegal occupier; the Jordanian and Syrian dictatorships supplied an endless sea of misplaced and homeless and forced them into ‘palestine’. Talk about living under a rock. Collateral damage is just that – collateral. Citing Spencer, 15,000 plus terror attacks in the name of islam since 9/11. Collateral damage of someone’s beliefs or just the normal practice of islam? I am pretty sure it’s both
          Justin, convert already. The agony must be killing you.

    • Justin

      Mohammad Sidique Khan has about as much authority in Islam as David Koresh has authority in Christianity.

      • 9-11 Infidel

        The only authority in Islam is the four schools od Sunni and the four schools of Shia jurisprudence. And they are all in agreement that you are wrong on everything but this one point.

  • davarino

    These are just the deaththrows of a dying religion. How do they imagine that the world will convert to a religion by violence. You know you have a false religion when you have to threaten people to convert rather than convince.

    Eventually the world will turn against them. I think Europe is getting tired of their masses. The Americas wont tolerate much more of their S$%#. Russia and China just dont play that game.

    • Justin

      Actually, Islam is an attractive alternative to the illogical Trinity. Indeed, Islam is the fasting growing religion in America and the World. People like Spencer fear "the Other" so much they are willing to lie in order to keep people's minds in the little Anglo-Saxon box.

      • davarino

        Ya you'll love Islam. First they will cut off your girlfriend's clit. That should be fun. Then they will force you to convert or pay. That should be fun. They will totally change our way of life. I guess you hate this "Anglo-Saxon" life so much you are willing to believe the muslem lies.

        I was assuming you are not muslem, but if you are then enjoy

  • Jaladhi

    Islam is terrorism > Period. and the followers of Islam are terrorits as per their quran and their own religious "scholars".How can Obama administration succeed in separating the terror from Islam?? May be they need to read Quran again.

    • Justin

      Maybe you need to read the Quran fairly. Your statement is pure ignorance and demagoguery. Spencer writes specifically to reinforce the xenophobia and self-righteous bigotry you seem to have.

      • davarino

        Xenophobia? hehehe ya right. So you have learned the english language. I think Jaladhi has a bigotry of not being killed by this religion of peace.

      • Jaladhi

        Hey Justin, you would do well to follow your own advice. Read Quran with open mind and think for yourself instead of relying on those imamullahs. Whenever somebody tells the truth about Islam, its followers whine and accuse us of not reading the Quran properly, fairly, reading out of context, and other delusional claims. So nothing new here in telling me that my comments xenophobic, bigoted, self righteous, of which Muslims themselves are guilty for last 1400 years. Just look at what Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries allow non-Muslims to do intheir countries – can Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists practice their religions and build temples, churches, etc, in Saudi Arabia. If you answer truthfully and say no then Saudis are xenophobic and bigoted. Where as in our non-Muslim countries, aren't Muslims allowed to practice Islam and build mosques??? It clearly shows its Muslims who are xenophobic and bigoted and not us or the Muslims would not have been allowed in this country at all.

  • tanstaafl jw

    There is hadith where Mohammed says "I have become victorious through terror….."

    That sort of sums it up.

    • Justin

      There is also a hadith where Muhammad says, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day let him be excellent towards his neighbor." [Bukhari]

      Another hadith says, "There will be disputes after me, so if you have a way to end them in peace, then do it." [Ibn Kathir 8:61]

      The hadith you quoted has an obvious context you and Spencer are bent on ignoring or covering up.

      • Courtnye’

        yeah ,,if he is a muslim!!!! his excellent neighbor wouldn’t be the infindel he already killed, doesn’t take a rocket scienetist justin

      • davarino

        Oh ok Justin, that explains it for me. I'm satisfied. I didnt realize muslims merely wanted to be good neighbors. That is funny. You must think we are all stupid. You will have to change your story drastically to be more convincing.

  • USMCSniper

    Politicians, the press, and academics have rushed to declare that this is not a war between Islam and the West. Islam, we have been told again and again, is really “a religion of peace.” Perhaps the reason we have to be told this so many times is because it so obviously contradicts the facts. As of late, we have a shameful betrayal of Israel, and an open attempt to sacrifice the Jews to appease the religious hatred of the Muslims. And worse, our refusal to recognize Islam as the enemy is preventing us from waging a wider war against all Islamic terrorist states and their proxy terrorists.

    If we want to win this war, we must begin by recognizing that it is a war against Islam — or to be more exact, this is Islamic fundamentalism’s war against the “infidel” secularism of the West. Our goal in this war should be to beat down, to curtail, to drive out Islamic fundamentalism completely.

  • http://historyscoper.angelfire.com/tlwislam.html Historyscoper

    To separate terrorism from Islam is to dissolve Islam. It's been 1400 years and nobody's done it yet. See my approach athttp://go.to/winslowplan

  • occamsrazorX

    There is no moderate Islam. Islam is the enemy of western civilization. Islam is a war ideology, disguised as a religion.

    Here is a link to a great op-ed article:
    http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-driv

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/ChrisLA ChrisLA

    For the record, Justin, your quotation from Exekiel was clearly identified as merely a vision, not reality or a command from God. Furthermore, Old Testament prophesy illuminates and confirms Christian beliefs but it is not "Christianity" — a faith and practice found in the New Testament. Surah 9:6 doesn't undo 9:5, nor does Surah 8:61 undo 8:60. Those "escape clauses" require one form or another of "submission" by the infidels. Why should anyone have to submit to a barbaric ideology in order to save his or her neck? __

  • henry

    The Koran calls for straight out cold blooded murder of innocent human beings in the clearest and plainest terms as is possible. It is as clear as 2+2=4. So why not point out that any government that is so stupid that it will try to contradict the clear words of the Koran which clearly permit and encourage murder and terrorism, by using those same clear words, and centuries-old traditions that support and encourage murder, to somehow put a stop to the murdering impulses of those who believe that everyword of the Koran is absolutely perfect and divine is absolutely insane? If we do not call the Koran a book of out and out cold blooded Murder, and Allah the God of Murder, and His Prophet, Moe, the Jesus of Murder, then how in the world is any other truth about this ancient insane cult going to make the slightest difference towards alerting innocent people to be on guard against this Religion of Murderers enough to protect and hide their families from the followers of the God of Murder who are greatly encouraged to murder or virtually enslave nearly anybody who will not obey the ridiculous rules and regulations found in this insane book that is worshiped as if it were alive by it's mad followers, and respected by most governments around the world not as a book of murderous insanity, but as a holy book of peace – why wouldn't anybody bother to point out that curing hate poisoning with more hate poisoning is totally insane? Why? I see no one ringing the alarm long and strong enough to save anybody from the Muslim Murderers! Why don't people just say it? The Muslims who believe every word of the Koran worship a God of cold-blooded MURDER – no other words but these truthful ones will do a thing to save the world.

  • Justin

    Chris,

    Here's another Bible verse commanding the killing of infidels:

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

    There is more where that came from. It is hypocritical of you to invoke context when reading the Bible but to ignore context when reading the Quran. The Quran very clearly restricts fighting to self-defense, as 9:6 and 8:61 show. See also 60:8-9, 2:62, 5:69, 25:63, etc. Here's a typical passage restricting war to self-defense:

    For this reason, mainstream Muslims have overwhelmingly endorsed the UN charter and the international rules of war. Mr. Spencer will never mention this plainly obvious fact.

    • Adam

      Justin,

      There is absolutely no parallel in Christianity, vis-a-vis warfare, with Islam. And I say that as an atheist.

      The verse you quoted has never, ever been taken as a presently binding order upon all Jews, nevermind Christians, to commit genocide. They are simply examples of the god of Israel commanding his servants to kill his enemies.

      That's pretty repulsive, but Jews and Christians do not use these passages to justify, in the modern day, acts of mass-murder. It is not the same scenario with Muslims and the verses of the Qur'an.

      If you listen to the lectures given by the likes of al-Awlaki, you'll realise that they quote these Qur'anic verses to justify their belief in the legitimacy of offensive warfare against the 'kuffar.' If you could find Christians or Jews that did the same, and to the same extent, you might have a point.

      The thing is, there is a well-established and mainstream tradition within Islam of offensive warfare, which has been espoused by highly influential Islamic scholars like: Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Kathir, al-Ghazali, Maududi, etc.

      The verses you cite are regarded as 'provisional.' That is, they are not regarded as the final approach to warfare that Muslims are to take (Sayed Qutb on Surah 9). Those verses were revealed to give justification for defensive warfare, but later verses, like 9:29, have been interpreted as being commands to wage offensive Jihad in order to spread the territorial boundaries of the Islamic state.

      But I do think it's interesting that apologists for Islam always end up attacking Christianity when their own religion is criticised, as if the fact that there are violent verses in the Bible somehow proved that Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

      You people need to stop resorting to this tu quoque fallacy. It just makes you look like you don't really have an argument.

      • Justin

        I am not attacking Christianity. I know Christianity is a peaceful religion. I am merely showing how stupid and deceptive Spencer's (non)scholarship methods are when applied to other religions.

        This is simply not true. Ibn Taymiyya wrote a book about fighting in which he clearly mentioned that fighting is only allowed against those who start fighting. This was even translated by Princeton University Press (Jihad in Classical and Modern Islam).

        Ibn Kathir mentions in his Tafsir of 8:61 that this peace verse is general in meaning (amm). Then he quotes Muhammad who said, "There will be disputes after me, so if you have a way to end them in peace, then do so."

        You seem like an arm-chair scholar to me, kinda like Spencer. I have a problem with that kind of fear-mongering.

      • Justin

        You forget to mention that Sayyid Qutb became radicalized when the US supported Egyptian government tortured him. He only advocated offensives Jihad after he was tortured, and even the Muslim Brotherhood's Yusuf Qaradawi rejected that from him.

        And actually, yes there is a clear parallel in Christian and Islamic traditions on war; that is "Just War" theory. Again, for this reason, Muslim countries unanimously support the UN charter.

    • 9-11 Infidel

      There is no open-ended command to kill infidels in the Bible. Yours is an eisegesis, mine is an exegesis and so is Spencer's comments. The Koran is full of open-ended commands to kill and murder or enslave all who are not Muslim. Sura 9:29 is one verse there are many others. The Bible and the Koran have nothing in common with one another. The Itah of the Bible is not Allah.

      • Justin

        Wrong again. The Quran is full of open-ended commands to do "good deeds" (amilu salihat), to pray, and to "give charity" (atu zakat). The Prophet Muhammad said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day will treat people the way he wants to be treated." [Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Imarah] Many verses in the Quran restrict violence to just war of defense only (see 2:190, 8:61, 60:8).

        I know the Bible has no open-ended commands to kill infidels. I am saying that, like the Bible, the Quran has no open-ended command to kill infidels. Why not work for inter-religious peace and justice?

        I swear to God, Allah, that the true believers on all sides are those who strive for peace:
        http://www.acommonword.com

        ww.acommonword.com

        • 9-11 Infidel

          That zakat is for Muslims. It isn't the same as Christian charity which is for everyone. All the Meccan verses have been abrogated. Your efforts at tagiyya don't change that fact.

    • GCR

      There were certain groups of populations/peoples who practiced such types of worship such as the sacrificing of their own children etc. God's patients wore thin, they were so entrapped and submissive (that is what 'Islam' means) to that demonic power that God's judgment was caused to fall on them. There are very few specific cases like this. God did not cast a blanket instruction to eradicate all who were not 'Children of Israel' as Islam has condemned all who are not Muslim to convert or die. Islam is demonic. As Lucifer rebelled against God, wishing to be 'as the Most High', Lucifer has always tried to have a counterpoint to God. Mohammed was Lucifer's' attempt to copy/counterpoint Jesus, and the followers of Mohammed are the following that Lucifer is drawing to himself to counter 'Christians'. And just to be clear, Lucifer = Satan.

  • Justin

    Mr. Spencer will say anything and everything, truth or not, to make people hate and fear Islam and Muslims. The purpose is to promote a hawkish war policy and shift blame away from the bad policies which spawn terrorism. Mr. Spencer has been completely rejected by the academic community exactly because he is a vile propagandist, not an objective scholar. Not a single book of Mr. Spencer's is peer reviewed by other Middle East scholars. Robert Spencer is to Muslims as David Duke is to Jews. Spencer supports fascist Geert Wilders who wants to deny religious freedom and civil rights to all Muslims. We have words for this kind of behavior: bigotry, stereotyping, prejudice, demonization, xenophobia, or more specifically, Islamophobia.

    • portuguesamericano

      Justin

      Geert Wilders just tells the truth, linking terrorists and their quotations from the Qu'ran, and quoting directly from the Qu'ran himself. I defy you to disprove anything he has said.

      The other "Middle East" scholars you refer to are most likely Muslims or dhimmi apologists for Islam.

      Two prime examples of Islamic apologists are Karen Armstrong and John Esposito. They are hardly objective.

      Daniel Pipes has been consistently critical of Islam–see his web site danielpipes.org.

      Muslims have done all the damage in demonstrating the unsavory aspects of their faith by their actions, including terrorist acts, honor killings, stonings, decapitations, the murder of Jews, the killing of Muslim apostates, the persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries, the aggressive imposition of their customs and laws in non-Muslim lands, the relentless Islamization of European countries by coercion of Europe's leaders.

      Robert Spencer is only telling the truth about Islam. He does not need a "wild imagination"; he has all the evidence in the world from the actions of individual Muslims and from the texts and tenets of Islam.

      • Justin

        Anyone can quote any scripture out of context. In his stupid film, Wilders never quoted a full single verse but only "cut-and-pasted" half-verses set to inflammatory images. This isn't proof at all. It is simply juxtaposing quotes (out of context) with the actions of a fringe minority of cult terrorists. A fifth grader with a PC could do that.

        Geert Wilders is a fascist who believes only white people or those submissive to white people deserve freedom. He doesn't say it quite like that, but that is the obvious implication. He would deny basic human rights to all Muslims only because they are Muslims. Freedom Party? What a hypocrite!

        • 9-11 Infidel

          That's right. And you have proved that in here. There are only two interpretations of Scripture or for that matter the Koran. The right one (exegesis) and the wrong one (yours).

      • Justin

        John Esposito is hated by Islamophobes because he refuses to demonize Muslims, specifically the Muslim Brotherhood. He'd rather study and accurately report on them (imagine that!) rather than engage in ideological polemics. Esposito conducts scientific polls in the Muslim world, engages in countless interviews, and has published more than 30 scholarly peer reviewed books on Islam. On the contrary, Spencer will never be able to publish any peer reviewed book on Islam because he has absolutely no academic training in Islam. None.

        The idea that the President, the Pope, and all other major leaders and academics are wrong about Islam, and Spencer is right, is nothing but a loony conspiracy theory with no hard proof. But loony conspiracy theories are typical of bigots (i.e. Protocols of the Elders of Zion). Daniel Pipes is also a radical likudnik but even he can't repeat Spencer's lies with a straight face.

        • 9-11 Infidel

          Who cares. The real experts in Islam aren't in the WH or in most Western commentary on the subject. They are the terrorists themselves, who quote correctly from the Koran, Hadith and Sira. Other experts are the various schools of Muslim jurisprudence, of which the terrorists are in agreement with. Lastly there are the Wafa Sultans, Ibn Warriqs, Shoebats and the like who are also in agreement with the schools of Muslim jurisprudence on the interpretation of Muslim Trilogy.

    • 9-11 Infidel

      Nope. Spencer has studied the Muslim trilogy and Sharia law. Pointing out the truth and purpose of Islam may bother you. But Spencer is spot on in his study of the subject. Suggest you learn more about it before criticising someone who knows the subject. Your hurling imprecations at the wrong enemy.

      • Justin

        And your scholarly qualifications to be able to evaluate Spencer's work are…?

        • 9-11 Infidel

          My degree is in Biblical Studies and comparitive religions. My specialty is Islam.

        • davarino

          Justin, the proof is in the pudding. I dont have to be a genious islamic scholar to see what is right in front of my eyes.____So you are saying UBL and the like, are to be compared to David Koresh, Jim Jones,…etc. They are crazy and outside to teachings of the Koran?____I quote you "The purpose is to promote a hawkish war policy and shift blame away from the bad policies which spawn terrorism."____So you believe there is justification for what the terrorists do? What would that be?

  • Justin

    Hmmm… should I believe you and crackpot Spencer? Or should I believe President Bush? I'm going to go with Bush.

    • 9-11 Infidel

      Wow. Chnge the subject and attack huh Justin. The only crackpot in here bud is you. Semper Fi USMC Sniper.

    • davarino

      Oh that is funny Justin. So now Bush is your buddy? You dont have a problem with him invading Afganistan, and Iraq? Any leader can be duped into believing a lie. All it takes is lots of money, power, influence, and a great desire to believe the best in people.

  • Stuart

    Islamophobia isn't a word, actually. It's a rhetorical distraction meant to entertain gullible children like Justin here. Pray tell, if I (and all the rest) have a compulsive, pathological fear of muslims, why is that our dangerous mental disorder hasn't actually inspired the fanciful, violent, anti-muslim backlash that has so long been prophecized? If we are the ones in need of therapy, how is it that we can be content discussing such matters whilst our opposing camp can't come up a more articulate counterpoint than the 3D's of Islamic Jurisprudence: 1) Decapitation 2) Detonation 3) Dhimmi-tude (apologies to who ever I stole that line from)

    • Justin

      I don't know about the 3 D's of Islamic law, but I do know the objectives of Islamic Law formulated by Imam Shatibi: protection of life, protection of religion, protection of reason, and protection of family. Most Muslims connect these ideas with modern human rights.

      Islamophobia is the dehumanization of Muslims and spreading falsehood about Islamic tradition. Spencer is an expert in fomenting Islamophobia. Your rhetoric against Muslims is similar to what Nazis said about European Jews.

  • Justin

    The Islamophobic discourse on this article is repulsive. I find it very disturbing that many of you, including Spencer, say the same excat things about Muslims that the Nazis said about Jews. I find it very disturbing that many of you claim to be advocates of freedom yet you support neo-fascists like Geert Wilders. I find it very disturbing that discussing Islamic tradition in a balanced and honest way is alien to you. Many of you probably never talked to a normal Muslim. You just know a few buzz words: jihad, abrogation, taqiyya; without knowing or caring to know what mainstream Muslims have said about these topics. I honestly don't care if you don't like Islam or Muslims, but DO NOT LIE ABOUT ISLAM.

    DO NOT SPEW XENOPHOBIC HATRED AND VERBAL VIOLENCE AGAINST A RELIGION YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

    • 9-11 Infidel

      I would advise you to do the same. It is obvious that you know nothing about the subject, nor do you know anything about the Bible. Save your vituperation for the rubes.

    • gcr

      Justin, how much time have you spent in a Muslim country? How much time have you spent living and working with Muslims in their own enviornment, and not in a Western enviornment? Your ignorance of real Islam is astounding.

  • henry

    Justin! Mr. Spencer doesn't say enough – not nearly! The Koran clearly calls for out and out just plain MURDER and you know it!

    • Justin

      The Quran says in Surah 5 (which happens to be the last Surah):

      "We (God) ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." (5:32)

      This is the most forceful condemnation of murder found in any religious scripture in the world.

      • portuguesamericano

        "spreading mischief in the land" can be and has been interpreted to mean a host of sins, such as criticizing Muhammad, questioning a passage from the Qu'ran or Hadiths, and so forth. Be careful, Kuffar; anything you say or do may have serious consequences!

      • Martin K.

        "Children of Israel" "Children of Israel" "Children of Israel" "Children of Israel" got the point Dude? Or will you say Muslims follow other passages of the "Thora" since it was reveald by god? When do Muslim read f.e. passages of the Thora or the Bible in the Mosque? Since they all come from the same source? But again no need to reply, since you have a much more important task, bring your erring brothers of faith back to the true “peaceful” religion, doubt that you could convince any of the critics here.

        Except for your fellow travelers in faith, this is like preaching to the choir, ah I forget no music in islam:
        “http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/04/13/no-more-music-broadcasts-in-mogadishu-this-is-21st-century-islam-at-work/”

        Again if these your brothers in faith are misreading the islamic text, please show them the error of their ways. Tanks you very much.

  • Stuart

    Excuse me? are reading the same forum the rest of us are? Who has advocated genocide (or any violence) to ANYONE? And yes, Geert Wilders is my hero. If my hair was long enough I would do his bleached-do immediately. But, hey, you can slander anyones good name by making a well-reasoned, descriptive assessment like "neo-facist" Just like I can much more easily (on account of the mountains of self-professed evidence) impugn the character of a certain illiterate, desert-dwelling charlatan by pointing out he was a sexually inadequate child-molester.

    • Justin

      Geert Wilders? Are you serious? This man who thinks innocent Muslims should be deported and denied basic human rights is your hero? How is that anything other than fascism?

      As for the Prophet's marriage to Aisha, everyone in ancient societies married much earlier because the life expectancy was very low. You were lucky if you lived past 30. Islamophobes also forget to mention that Muhammad and Aisha had a happy, loving marriage and that Aisha was a great scholar and example for empowering women all across the Muslim world.

      • portuguesamericano

        Gee, marrying a little girl at age 6 and "consummating" the marriage at age 9 seems a bit, well, odd. Did you hear of the 13-year-old girl who died in Yemen recently due to genital damage caused by her adult husband, or the hospitalization of an 11-year-old girl due to the same abuse by her adult husband? An average of 8 girls die each day in Yemen during childbirth, according to the Arabic Sisters Forum in that country. They are trying to get the Government to raise the minimum marriage age; more power to them, but I wouldn't hold my breath…

        Do you see what Muhammad wrought? Of course, Muhammad had many other wives and concubines, so Aisha did get some respite…

        Really, how can you justify a 54-year-old man having sex with an 11-year-old girl? I don't care what the average life expectancy was!

  • Stuart

    Don't lie about Islam? We promise we won't start, if you pay us the same courtesy. Religion of peace, indeed…

  • Jake95

    Justin,
    It would seem that you have "Cherry Picked" some verses from the Bible to excuse the continuous hatetred contained in the Koran. Unlike you sir, I know of what I speak when I say that Islam is NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE now or ever. The whole point of this perverted system of belief is to "Subdue" the World and it's peoples. This is the thrust of all Islamic teaching from the first sura to the last. Prove me wrong sir, or kindly keep your hate filled comments to yourself.

    • Justin

      You "know" this about Islam just like anti-Semites "know" the Elders of Zion are plotting to control the world! If you have read my posts, I have consistently reftued every libel and canard presented here by these ignorant readers. I don't hate anyone, but I hate the deeds on one who slanders a great world religion for political reasons.

      • mrsid

        It is not necessary to resort to the rantings of an illiterate societal pariah as written out by his followers to know the precepts of Islam. Mohammed's "visitations from an angel" and conversations with Allah were driven by political expediency and attempts to impress pagan illiterates with his mystical authority. Mohammed acted as he did for the accumulation of power and wealth, and in order to exact revenge upon those who derided his rantings. You have only to note that Islam's history is one of conquest and forced conversion at the point of a sword. Muslims slaughtered thousands of Christians, Jews, and Hindus across France, Spain, North Africa, the Middle East, Persia and India during their wars of jihad. This was not a religion of peace, but proselytizing at the point of a sword. They continue to do so today, and even slaughter their own when those dare to espouse points of view considered to be at odds with Muslim beliefs. Pointing out the historical record, and judging a "great world religion" (in reality a bastardized version of Judaism attempting to supplant the Jews in their own homeland) by the actions of its strictest adherents is no slander, by any stretch of the imagination.

    • Justin

      Verses from the Quran to refute your claims (by the way, these are not abrogated):

      "Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant." (7:199)

      "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (2:62)

      "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you." (49:13)

      "And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!" (25:63)

  • Justin

    Verses from the Quran to refute your claims (by the way, these are not abrogated):

    "Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant." (7:199)

    "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (2:62)

    "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you." (49:13)

    "And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!" (25:63)

    • 9-11 Infidel

      Het Justin. Ever hear of the word Naksh? The Koran is divided into two parts. The Meccan verses and the Medina verses. The Meccan verses are the peaceful ones which have been abrogated by the Medina ones. Are you dissembling Justin?

    • gcr

      What about the rocks and trees that are going to cry out to the nearest Muslim that there is a Jew hiding behind it; alerting the loyal Muslim so he can do his holy duty and kill the Jew? Is that the reward that Allah is talking about? After all, one of Allah's 99 names is 'The Great Deceiver'.

  • Justin

    Here's some more non-abrogated peace verses:

    "Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion." (90:17)

    "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." (60:8)

    There are plenty more verses like these. These verses are not abrogated. The mainstream Muslims of all times have not believed they are abrogated. The only Islamophobic response to this is to cry "abrogation" but you probably never read Suyuti's Itqan on the subject, so you are condemned to be ignorant of the truth.

    • gcr

      That's it. 'Mainstream Muslims', all following Mohammed and your allah submissively, without question or rationality. Carried along with the movement. Just like lemmings……..
      If Mohammed is Islam's 'perfect man', why is it necessary to wish and entreat that 'peace be upon him' (PBUH). If the 'perfect man' is uncertain of peace in the 'hereafter', what hope does the common man have? Is that why Muslims say that they love death more than we love life? So they can die cleansing the world of the infidel and die in the pursuit of that end?

  • henry

    Justin! Mr. Spencer is just a big softy when it come to criticizing Muslims – he never tells the whole truth on them – he never says that Allah is a God of Murder and Murderers, and that Moe is their Jesus Christ of Murderers, or that they who believe every word of their Bible, the Koran, demand that eventually all humans become virtual slaves to their Murderous laws which they say were written perfectly by God and can never be changed or altered in the slightest – Spencer never said any of these things even though they are as true as true can be! No one in their right mind would say that Muslims did not worship The God of Murder and Murderers! Perhaps you would like to try? I thought not!

    • Justin

      These are crass and bigoted stereotypes of which you have no proof. Quoting verses out of context and out of their mainstream interpretation is not proof. Just replace "Muslims" with "Jews" in your thinking and you will see how close you are to anti-Semitism.

  • Justin

    In Spencer's wild imagination, everyone is wrong about Islam: President Bush, President Obama, Secretary of State Clinton, Mohandas Ghandi, Pope John Paul II, the leaders of all 57 Muslim majority states, pastor Rick Warren, writer Karen Armstrong, Georgetown professor of Islamic Studies Dr. Esposito, UCLA professor of Islamic Law Dr. Abou El Fadl, Quran translators Muhammad Asad and Yusuf Ali, Grand Muft of Egypt Ali Jumua, numerous other Muslim and non-Muslim scholars, even neo-conservative hawks like Princeton professor Bernard Lewis and Daniel Pipes are wrong

    • 9-11 Infidel

      Spencer is neither wild nor imagining anything. Spencer, unlike you has actually studied Islam and is spot on in his commentary. You on the other hand continue to claim exegisis when you have none. You much like Allah are a deceiver.

    • davarino

      So you denounce the koranic scriptures that call for jihad? The kind that bin laden and muslim brotherhood advocate? If you are, you are a lone voice. If what you say about Islam is true, then why do we not hear a loud cry from the muslim community denouncing terrorism? Why are they not marching in the street defending their "religion of peace"?

  • Trojan Sheik

    O ye of little brains: The Old Testament tells us what was done to whom, but the Koran commands the Mohamedans to kill now.

    • Justin

      O ye of little knowledge, the Quran commands Muslims to fight in self defense. This is why Muslims support the UN charter because UN principles are compatible with the Quran.

      • 9-11 Infidel

        O ye of no knowledge. The Koran commands Muslims to fight the Infidels until there is no religion but Allah's. That open-ended command is neither defensive or offensive war it is plain (quitaal)…period.

      • portuguesamericano

        "self defense" can mean attacking the Kuffars because they will not submit to Islam. That is one of the many instances of the use of taqiyya. It consists of word-twisting, among other things such as outright lying. Kitman is also a valuable tool (not telling the whole story, so as to mislead).

      • Martin K.

        "Self defense" includes "criticizing" the kooran. But as I wrote elsewhere, you have to rely on “scholars” to explain the clear/plain book. Well, to me this is far from being “clear” if you have historical evidence that scholars have discussed this for ages, to deceiver its meaning.

  • Justin

    To summarize; you Islamophobes have no proof for your sweeping claims about Islam. Taking quotes out of context and ignoring their mainstream interpretation is not proof, it is crass bigotry. Manipulating words like Jihad, Dhimmi, Sharia, Taqiyya, Abrogation without mentioning their mainstream interpretation is not proof. You demonize Muslims the same way Nazis demonize Jews. You are all being fooled by a clever propagandist (Spencer) whose intention is to justify more imperialist aggression against the Muslim world and to absolve Israel of responsibility for its Apartheid State. Most Muslims just want to practice their religion in peace without being harassed by fascist bigots like Spencer and Wilders. Grow up! Live and let live!

    • 9-11 Infidel

      Islamophobes? The difference between most us and you is that we are Islamic scholars on the subject of Islam. You are not. By the way to be afraid of Islamic terrorism is not a unfounded fear. To be afraid of the truth – as in your case – is.
      And for your information, we have provided adequate proof of our position on Islam. You on the other hand just continue to prove that you have not done your homework either on Islam or the Bible. Your impotent cosmology vis-vis Islam does not cancel out Spencer's inerrant perspiscuity. Go home troll.

      • Justin

        Where did you study Islam? Which university? Which professors? Which scholar of Islam bequeathed his scholarship to you? Or is your teacher Robert Spencer and Glenn Beck?

        • portuguesamericano

          Glenn Beck has said little about Islam on his programs; he recently mistakenly called Gert Wilders a far-right extremist without doing his research on him (he is NOT a fascist; he is a nationalist who understands the threat of Islamic imperialism in Europe as a whole, and the Netherlands in particular. Otherwise, Beck has good ideas.

          Incidentally, you would learn a lot about the Eurabization of Europe by reading Bat Ye'or's book "Eurabia – the Euro-Arab Axis". She is a former resident of Egypt and a pioneer researcher on dhimmitude.

    • portuguesamericano

      Live and let live! Tell that to the Indian people in India, the Pakistani minorities, the former Jews and Christians of Saudi Arabia, the Christians in Lebanon, the minorities in Iran, the minorities in Iraq – in fine, all minorities in any Muslim state under the Sharia you care to mention!

      Only in secular, democratic countries will you find "live and let live"; not in any Muslim-majority country!

  • 9-11 Infidel

    Oh but they are abrogated. The interpretation of Islam is codefied by every school of Muslim jurisprudence. The Medina verses (they say) are the better verses. Any peaceful verses apply only to Muslims not to infidels. Muslims say to one another Asalamu alakuum. It is not reserved for Infidels. Neither is "sohl". To infidels the best that a Muslim will give is "hudna". Get your sh_t together bud.

    • Justin

      You need to get your stuff together. Robert Spencer does not tell the truth about how mainstream Muslim theologins understand abrogation. No respected Muslim authority anywhere in the world today, not even the dreaded Wahhabis, say the peace verses are cancelled. The grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia supported peace with Israel.

      Here is a Medina verse from the final surah to be revealed (the final surah was 5 not 9):

      "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (5:69)

      The Quranic revelation ended on a note of religious pluralism and moral equivalence between religions. But most Islamophobes probably never knew these researchable facts.

      • 9-11 Infidel

        No dude. Its you that needs to get it together. You have been wrong on every point on the Koran. You can continue your phobic diatribe all you want to. Truth is most everyone in here has studied the subject far more than you have.

        • Justin

          No seriously that is completely untrue. I have studied Arabic. I read the Quran everyday. I read it when I pray. I read the Hadith. I know with certainty that what you are saying is false.

          • Abdullah Mikail

            Keep up the good fight, Justin….these hacks are hilarious…I can't believe this moron thinks himself a person of knowledge…

  • henry

    Justin! You answered! How rare. Perhaps you believe what you write up there! But, if you do, you are either a liar (Taquyya) or you are extremely new to your new religious fad, and naively believe what Taquyya masters have whipped up for children and Dhimmies. What puzzles me is your very atypical (for a Muslim) complaint , " Live and let live!" Come on now! Is that really the way you feel towards Israel and Spain? By the way, your intellectual handling of "Abrogation" is entirely lacking – when you grow up a little more in your weird faith (faith without reason is very close to insanity) you will realize that you are being called to be a holy murderer by the God of Murder and his Jesus Christ, Mohammad. We are Islamophobes, and someday you will be too, like the majority of all your fellows who, like you today, also once have said that God is above reason and logic and truth. We say, "God is simply truth, reason, and logic. Faith without reason is not faith – you know what it is – if not, guess. You will get it by the third trial.

  • Justin

    Henry, I am saddened and dismayed by your reply. A true Islamophobe will have nothing to say but cry Abrogation and Taqiyya, those these canards and libels, these slanders, have been debunked again and again, again and again and again. You have no shame in calling yourself an Islamophobe which is a true sign of your bigotry. You and I and all others will bear witness to God in the Afterlife that you are an Islamophobe. Indeed, your form of bigotry and those who support it will be marganilized and relugated to the dustbin of history. Those of use who want peace between Islam and Christianity will succeed because our mission is supported by God, Allah the Almighty. I ask Allah the Almighty to bring peace between Jews, Christians, Muslims and all people.
    http://www.acommonword.com

    • 9-11 Infidel

      "A true Islamophobe will have nothing to say but cry Abrogation and Taqiyya, those these canards and libels…" Not even close. Nice attempt at a strawman argument though. However, if those of us who know Islam (not you) are Islamaphobes, then I guess that makes you a truthophobe.

      • Justin

        Two ket doctrines of the Islamophobe:

        1) By misrepresenting abrogation you nullify any evidence coming from the Quran.

        2) By misrepresenting taqiyya you nullify any evidence coming from credible Muslim scholars.

        Therefore, you only accept proof on your own terms. You will never believe any evidence I show because you are mentally programmed to retreat to these two concepts. I don't hate you. I just want Muslims and Christians to live in peace.

        • Martin K.

          You have EVIDENCE that mohammed recieved the kooran? All you got is the claim by him! But if you want Muslims and Christian to live in peace, START WITH YOUR FANATICAL brothers in faith who bring 17 year old women to kill themselves and others! Show them they are wrong! Its is from this side peace is being destroyed, and not by those who VERBALLY criticize your religion OF NO PEACE as it shown every day!

  • 9-11 Infidel

    A little comparison and contrast is in order. First from the Itah called Allah:
    Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
    Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
    Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
    Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
    Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
    Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
    Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

    • Justin

      You left out 8:61 and 9:6 from those two surahs you quoted.

  • 9-11 Infidel

    And now from the real Itah:
    "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' (NIV, Mark 12:28-30)
    A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13
    If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. I John
    There is no racism or any other ism in the real Itah. Yet the fake Itah is a racist, terrorist, mysoginyst, murdering, woman-hating pedophile. You cannot seperate terrorism from Islam. Jihad in theway of Allah, whether by terrorism or dissembling is commanded of all Muslims. Despite all the dissembling of Justin, Spencer, is in agreement with Wafa Sultan, Adul Kassem, Amil Amani, Shoebat, and Mosab Yousef.

  • henry

    Dear Justin, your say, " I ask Allah the Almighty to bring peace between Jews, Christians, Muslims and all people. " But we were not born yesterday. We know for a fact that the only way, according to your Koran and related holy writings, that there can be peace in the world is only when the world is dominated by the rule of The Mighty Koran. Well, when we are conquered and controlled by you, our conquerers, perfectly and completely, then you tell us, and only then, can there be peace. But Justin, we say that far short of conquering you, and dominating you, and belittling you in public, we can live and let live and even give you all secular equality. Don't you see the difference? Where in your Koran influenced countries do you find such a paradise of equality as exists in our democracies? No where at all! Whose fault is that? Not ours. We give you everything good, including equality with us when you come to us for help and a new home – what do any of you give us? " I ask Allah the Almighty to bring peace between Jews, Christians, Muslims and all people. " We know what that means to you and most Muslims! It means that you want us to be conquered in war or else have the wits to surrender to Muslim holy rule! Do you think we don't know that kid? Now what do you have to say for yourself? A little growing up is in order here son.

    • Justin

      What can I say to that? You repeat stereotypes and imagine a broad Muslim conspiracy to conquer the world, much like anti-Semites believe about Jews. I do not know why it is so hard for people to believe in peace.

      • 9-11 Infidel

        Stick to the subject . Maybe that's hard for you. The subject is Islam and Terrorism. You have lost the argument simply because you have not studied the matter in depth. Everytime you post a reply you betray your utter ignorance of the topic. It is you that picks and chooses passages from the Koran and the Bible without content or context. It is you who use cunards and stereotypes (such as Islamophobe). In short you are are "projecting". Give it up sparky.

  • 9-11 Infidel

    One more point. This comes from the incomperable Ali Sina or should I say Dr. Ali Sina:
    "I have always maintained that “moderate Muslim” is an oxymoron. We have two kinds of Muslims: Terrorist Muslims and ignorant Muslims. The former are those who know Islam well and live by its dictums. The latter have no clue about their religion and have an idealized image of Islam that has no basis in fact. "

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

      Exactly right!

  • henry

    Justin! We can not see you but we know that you are very young – please stop trying to act as if you were a mature wise man. I am not an anti – Jew, there is nothing more horrifying to me than Hitler or someone, who would approve of murdering innocent people. I just don't like murder. If Allah was not a murderer, and His Prophet, I would approve of them – I would feel that they were human in heart. You say I don't believe in peace, but why? It is you and yours who do not believe that peace is possible unless everyone in the world does what the Koran demands that they do – namely, obey the Koran, and bow to the authority of Muslim Rulers. Why do you not answer any of my questions to you but only obfuscate by changing the subject or telling me I believe in stereotypes? You must know that everything I've written is the truth – but if it is not, then please tell our readers exactly what is a lie and why. To answer your question: It is hard for us to believe in what you call peace because it means we must all be dominated by Muslims or there can be no peace. That is not peace – that is surrender and captivity. If what I have said is untrue – why not say it is untrue so everyone out there can see what you are talking about? Just say, " Perfect peace is possible without generous and kind Muslim dominance of the whole world". Bet you won't – bet you can't – bet you are fearful of going to your Muslim Hell if you were to. But you can be sure, that when you are in trouble with your own kind, we will be kind to you and yours – even if you were not surrendering and made to feel subdued in front of your own children.

  • Alikoya KK

    Please read the ninth chapter of the Quran:

    (Verse numbers shown in brackets. Total: 129 verses.)

    (1-2) This is a declaration of disavowal by Allah and His Messenger to those who associate others with Allah in His divinity and with whom you have made treaties: ‘You may go about freely in the land, for four months, but know well that you will not be able to frustrate Allah, and that Allah will bring disgrace upon those who deny the truth.’
    (3-4) This is a public proclamation by Allah and His Messenger to all men on the day of the Great Pilgrimage: ‘Allah is free from all obligations to those who associate others with Allah in His divinity; and so is His Messenger. If you repent, it shall be for your own good; but if you turn away, then know well that you will not be able to frustrate Allah. So give glad tidings of a painful chastisement to those who disbelieve. In exception to those who associate others with Allah in His divinity are those with whom you have made treaties and who have not violated their treaties nor have backed up anyone against you. Fulfill you treaties with them till the end of their term. Surely Allah loves the pious.’
    (5-6) But when the sacred months expire, slay those who associate others with Allah in His divinity wherever you find them; seize them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them. But if they repent and establish the Prayer and Pay Zakah, leave them alone. Surely Allah is All Forgiving, Ever Merciful. And if any of those who associate others with Allah in His divinity seeks asylum, grant him asylum that he may hear the Word of Allah, and then escort him to safety for they are a people bereft of all understanding.
    (7-12) How can there be a covenant with those who associate others with Allah in His divinity on the part of Allah and His Messenger except those with whom you made a covenant near the Sacred Mosque? Behave in a straight way with them so long as they behave straight with you for Allah loves the God-fearing. How can there be any covenant with the rest who associate others with Allah in His divinity? For were they to prevail against you, they will respect neither kinship nor agreement. They seek to please you with their tongues while their hearts are averse to you, and most of them are wicked. They have sold the revelations of Allah for a paltry price and have firmly hindered people from His path. Evil indeed is what they have done. They neither have any respect for kinship nor for agreement in respect of the believers. Such are indeed transgressors. But if they repent and establish Prayer and give Zakah they are your brothers in faith. Thus do We expound Our revelations to those who know. But if they break their pledges after making them and attack your faith, make war on the leaders of unbelief that they may desist, for they have no regard for their pledged words.
    (13-16) Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers. Make war on them. Allah will chastise them through you and will humiliate them. He will grant you victory over them, and will soothe the bosoms of those who believe; And will rage from their hearts, and will enable whomsoever He will to repent. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. Do you imagine that you will be spared without being subjected to any test? Know well that Allah has not yet determined who strove hard (in His cause), and has not taken any others beside His Messenger and the believers as his trusted allies? Allah is well aware of all that you do.
    (17-22) It does not become those who associate others with Allah in His divinity to visit and tend Allah’s mosques while they bear witness of unbelief against themselves. All their works have gone to waste. They shall abide in the Fire. It only becomes those who believe in Allah and the Last Day and establish Prayer and pay Zakah and fear none but Allah to visit and tend the mosques of Allah. These are likely to be guided aright. Do you consider providing water to the Pilgrims and tending the Sacred Mosque equal in worth to believing in Allah and the Last Day and striving in the cause of Allah? The two are not equal with Allah. Allah does not guide the wrong doing folk. The higher rank with Allah is for those who believed and migrated and strove in His cause with their belongings and their persons. It is they who are triumphant. Their Lord gives them glad tidings of mercy from Him and of His good pleasure. For them await Gardens of eternal bliss. Therein they shall abide forever. Surely with Allah there is a mighty reward.
    (23-24) Believers! Do not take you fathers and your brothers for your allies if they choose unbelief in preference to belief. Whosoever of you takes them as allies are wrong- doers. Tell them (O Prophet!): ‘If your fathers and your sons and your brothers and your wives and your tribe and the riches you have acquired and the commerce of which you fear a slackening, and the dwellings that you love, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah brings about His decree. Allah does not guide the evil-doing folk.’
    (25-27) Surely Allah has succored you before on many a battlefield and (you have yourselves witnessed His succor to you) on the day of Hunayn when your numbers made you proud, but they did you no good, and the earth, for all its vastness, constrained you, and you turned your backs in retreat. Then Allah caused His tranquility to descend upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and He sent down hosts whom you did not see, and chastised those who disbelieved. Such is the recompense of those who deny the truth. Then (after so chastising the unbelievers). Allah enables whomsoever He wills, to repent. Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Merciful.

    (28) Believers! Those who associate others with Allah in His divinity are unclean. So, after the expiry of this year, let them not even go near the Sacred Mosque. And should you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you out of His bounty, if He wills. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
    (29-35) Those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day even thought they were given the scriptures, and who do not hold as unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, and who do not follow the true religion – fight against them until they pay tribute out of their hand and are utterly subdued. The Jews say: ‘Ezra (‘Uzyr) is Allah’s son,’ and the Christians say: ‘The Messiah is the son of Allah.’ These are merely verbal assertions in imitation of the sayings of those unbelievers who preceded them. May Allah ruin them. How do they turn away from the truth? They take their rabbis and their monks for their Lords beside Allah, and also the Messiah, son of Mary, whereas they were commanded to worship none but the One God. There is no god but He. Exalted be He above those whom they associated with Him in His divinity. They seek to extinguish the light of Allah by blowing through their mouths; but Allah refuses everything except that He will perfect His light even though the unbelievers might abhor it. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all religions, howsoever those who associate other with Allah in His divinity might detest it. Believers! Many of the rabbis and monks wrongfully devour men’s possession and hinder people from the way of Allah. And there are those who amass gold and silver and do not spend it in the way of Allah. Announce to them the tidings of a painful chastisement. On a Day when they shall be heated in the Fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their sides and their backs shall be branded with it, [and they shall be told]: ‘This is the treasure which you hoarded for yourselves. Taste, then, the punishment for what you have hoarded.’
    (36-37) Surely the reckoning of months, , in the sight of Allah, is twelve months, laid down in Allah’s decree on the day when He created the heavens and the earth; and out of these months four are sacred. That is the true ordainment. Do not, therefore, wrong yourselves, with respect to these months. And fight all together against those who associate others with Allah in His divinity in the manner in which they fight against you all together and know well that Allah is with the God-fearing. The intercalation [of sacred months] is an act of gross infidelity, which causes the unbelievers to be led further astray. They declare a month to be lawful in one year and forbidden in another year in order that they may conform to the number of months that Allah has declared as sacred, and at the same time, make lawful what Allah has forbidden. Their foul acts seem fair to them. Allah does not provide guidance to those who deny the truth.
    (38-41) Believers! What is amiss with you that when it is said to you: ‘March forth in the cause of Allah,’ you cling heavily to the earth? Do you prefer the worldly life to the Hereafter? Know well that all the enjoyment of this world, in comparison with the Hereafter, is trivial. If you do not march forth, Allah will chastise you grievously and will replace you by another people, while you will in no way be able to harm Him. Allah has power over everything. It will matter little if you do not help the Prophet, for Allah surely helped him when the unbelievers drove him out of his home and he was but one of the two when they were in the cave, and when he said to his companion: ‘Do not grieve. Allah is with us.’ Then Allah caused His tranquility to descend upon him and supported him with hosts you did not see; and He humbled the word of the unbelievers. And Allah’s word is inherently uppermost. Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise. March forth whether light or heavy, and strive in the way of Allah with your belongings and your lives. That is best for you if you only knew it.
    (42-43) Were it again at hand or a short journey, they would have surely followed you, but the distance seemed too far to them. Still they will swear by Allah: ‘If only we could, we would surely have gone forth with you.’ They merely bring ruin upon themselves. Allah knows well that they are liars. Allah forgives you! Why did you give them leave to stay behind before it became clear to you as to whom were truthful and who were liars.

    (44-45) Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day will never ask you for leave to be excused from striving (in the cause of Allah) with their belongings and their lives. Allah fully knows the God-fearing. It is only those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, and whose hearts are filled with doubt that seek exemption from striving (in the cause of Allah). They keep tossing to and fro in their doubt.
    (46-48) Had they truly intended to march forth to fight, they would have certainly made some preparation for it. But Allah was averse to their going forth, so He made them lag behind, and they were told: Stay behind with those that are staying behind. Had they gone forth with you, they would have only added to your trouble, and would have run about in your midst seeking to stir up sedition between you, whereas there are among you some who are prone to lending ears to them. Allah knows well the wrong doers. Surely they sought even earlier to stir up sedition, and turned things upside down to frustrate you until the truth came and the decree of Allah appeared, however hateful this may have been to them.
    (49)And among them is he who says: ‘Grant me leave to stay behind, and do not expose me to temptation.’ Lo! They have already fallen into temptation. Surely the Hell encompasses the unbelievers.
    (50-51) If good fortune befalls you, it vexes them; and if an affliction befalls you, they turn away in jubilation and say: ‘We have taken due care of our affairs in good time.’ Say, Nothing will befall us except what Allah has decreed for us; He is our Protector.’ Let the believers, then, put all their trust in Allah.

    (52) Tell them: What you await to befall upon us is nothing but one of the two good things! And what we await for you is that Allah visits you with chastisement from Him or chastise you at our hands. So continue waiting; we too shall wait with you.
    (53-55) Tell them: ‘Whether you spend you money willingly or unwillingly, it shall not find acceptance (with Allah) for you are an evil-doing folk.’ Nothing prevents that their expending be accepted except that they disbelieve in Allah and His Messenger, and whenever they come to the Prayer they do so lazily, and whenever they spend they do so grudgingly. Let neither their riches nor their children excite your admiration. Allah only wants to chastise them through these things in the present life, and to cause them to die while they are unbelievers.
    (56-57) They swear by Allah that they belong to you whereas they are certainly not of you. They are merely a people who dread you. If they could find any shelter or any cavern, or any retreat, they would turn around and rush headlong into it.
    (58-60) (O Prophet!) Some of them find fault with you in the distribution of alms. If they are given something thereof they are pleased, and if they are given nothing they are angry. Would that they were content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and were to say: ‘Allah suffices for us, and Allah will give us out of His bounty and so will His Messenger. It is to Allah alone that we turn with hope.’ The alms are meant only for the poor and the needy and those who are in charge thereof, those whose hearts are to be reconciled; and to free those in bondage, and to help those burdened with debt, and for expenditure in the way of Allah and for the wayfarer. This is an obligation from Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

    (61) And of them there are some who distress the Prophet, saying: ‘He is all ears.’ Tell them: ‘He listens for your good. He believes in Allah and trusts the believers. And is mercy for those of you who believe. A painful punishment lies in store for those who cause distress to the Messenger of Allah.’

    (62-63) They swear by Allah to please you, while it is Allah and His Messenger whose pleasure they should seek if they truly believe. Are they not aware that Hell-fire awaits whosoever opposes Allah and His Messenger, and in it he shall abide? That surely is the great humiliation.
    (64-66) The hypocrites are afraid lest a surah should be revealed concerning them intimating to the believers what lay hidden in their hearts. Them (O Prophet!): “Continue your mockery if you will. Allah will surely bring to light all that disclosure of which you dread.’ Should you question them what they were talking about they would certainly say: We were merely jesting and being playful. Tell them: Was it Allah and His Messenger and His revelation that you were mocking? Now, make no excuses. The truth is, you have fallen into unbelief after having believed. Even if We were to forgive some of you. We will surely chastise other because they are guilty.
    (67-70) The hypocrites, be, they men or women, are all alike. They enjoin what is evil, and forbid what is good, and withhold their hands from doing good. They forgot Allah, so Allah also forgot them. Surely the hypocrites are wicked. Allah has promised Hell-Fire to the hypocrites, both men, and women, and to the unbelievers. They shall abide in it: a sufficient recompense for them. Allah has cursed them, and theirs is a lasting torment. Yours ways are like the ways of those who have gone before you. They were mightier than you in power, and more abundant in riches and children. They enjoyed their lot for a while as you have enjoyed your lot, and you also engaged in idle talk as they did. They works have come to a naught in this world and, in the Hereafter they are surely the losers. They have not heard the accounts of those who came before them – of the people of Noah and ‘Ad and Thamud, and the people of Abraham and the dwellers of Madyan (Midian), and the Ruined Cities? Their Messengers came to them with clear signs. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they rather wronged themselves.
    (71-72) The believers, both men and women, are allies of one another. They enjoin good, forbid evil, establish Prayer, pay Zakah, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Surely Allah will show mercy to them. Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. Allah has promised the believing men and believing women Gardens beneath which rivers flow. They shall abide in it. There are delightful dwelling places for them in the Gardens of Eternity. They shall, above all, enjoy the good pleasure of Allah. That is the great achievement.
    (73-74) O Prophet! Strive against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be severe to them. Hell shall be their abode – what an evil destination! They swear by Allah that they said nothing blasphemous whereas they indeed blasphemed, and fell into unbelief after believing, and also had evil designs, which they could not carry into effect. They are spiteful against Muslims for no other reason than that Allah and His Messenger have enriched them through His bounty! So, if they repent, it will be to their own good. But if they turn away, Allah will sternly punish them in this world and in the Hereafter. None in the world will be able to protect or help them.
    (75-80) Some of them made a covenant with Allah: ‘If Allah gives us out of His bounty, we will give alms and act righteously.’ Then, when He gave them out of His bounty they grew niggardly and turned their backs (upon their covenant). So He caused hypocrisy to take root in their hearts and to remain therein until the Day they meet him because they broke their promise with Allah and because they lied. Are they not aware that Allah knows what they conceal and what they secretly discuss, and that Allah has full knowledge even of All that is beyond the reach of perception? As for those who taunt the believers who voluntarily give alms and scoff at those who have nothing to give except what they earn through their hard toil, Allah scoffs at them in return. A grievous chastisement awaits them. (O Prophet!) It is the same whether or not you ask for their forgiveness. Even if you were to ask for forgiveness for them seventy times, Allah shall not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger; and Allah does not bestow His guidance on such evil-doing folk.
    (81-83) Those who were allowed to stay behind rejoiced at remaining behind and not accompanying the Messenger of Allah. They were averse to striving in the cause of Allah with their belongings and their lives and told others: ‘Do not go forth in this fierce heat.’ Tell them: ‘The Hell is far fiercer in heat.’ Would that they understand! Let them, then, laugh little, and weep much at the contemplation of the punishment for the evil they have committed! Then if Allah brings you face to face with a party of them, and they ask for your leave to go forth (to fight in the cause of Allah), tell them: ‘You shall not go forth with me, and shall never fight against any enemy along with me. You were well-pleased to remain at home the first time, so now continue to remain with those who have stayed behind.’

    (84-85) Do not ever pray over any of them who dies, nor stand over his grave. They disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died in iniquity. Let not their riches or their children excite your admiration. Through these Allah seeks to chastise them in this world, and that their lives may depart them while they are unbelievers.
    (86-89) And whenever any Surah is revealed enjoining: ‘Believe in Allah and strive (in His cause) along with His Messenger,’ the affluent among them ask you to excuse them, saying: ‘Leave us with those who will sit back at home.’ They were content to stay behind with the womenfolk. Their hearts were sealed, leaving them bereft of understanding. But the Messenger and those who shared his faith strove with their belongings and their lives. It is they who shall have all kinds of good. It is they who shall prosper. Allah has prepared for them Gardens beneath which rivers flow. There shall they abide. That is the supreme triumph.

    (90) Many of the Bedouin Arabs came with excuses, seeking leave to stay behind. Thus those who were false to their covenant remained behind. A painful chastisement shall befall those of them that disbelieved.
    (91-93) There is blame on the weak nor the sick nor on those who have no means for Jihad if they stay behind provided that they are sincere to Allah and to His Messenger. There is no cause for reproach against those who do good. Allah is All-Forgiving, Ever Merciful. Nor can there by any cause for reproach against those who, when they came to you demanding mounts to go to the battle front, but who went back, their eyes overflowing with tears when you told them that you had no mounts for them, grieving that they had no resources to enable them to take part in fighting. There are grounds for reproach against those who seek leave to stay behind even though they are affluent. They are the ones who were content to be with the womenfolk who stay behind. Allah has a set a seal on their hearts, leaving them bereft of understanding.
    (94-96) They will put up excuses before you when you return to them. Tell them: ‘Make no excuses. We will not believe you. Allah has already informed us of the truth about you. Allah will observe you conduct, and so will His Messenger; then you will be brought back to Him Who knows alike what lies beyond human perception and what lies within the reach of human perception, and He will let you know what you did. When you return to them they will surely swear to you in the name of Allah that you may leave them alone. So do leave them alone; they are unclean. Hell shall be their home, a recompense for what they did. They will swear to you in order to please you. But even if you become pleased with them, Allah will not be pleased with such an evil-doing folk.
    (97-99) The bedouin Arabs surpass all in unbelief and hypocrisy and are most likely to be unaware of the limits prescribed by Allah in what He has revealed to His Messenger. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. And among the bedouin Arabs there are such as regard whatever they spend (in the cause of Allah) as a fine and wait for some misfortune befall them! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. And of the bedouin Arabs are those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and regard their spending (in the cause of Allah) as a means of drawing them near to Allah and of deserving the prayers of the Messenger. Indeed, this shall be a means of drawing near to Allah. Allah will surely admit them to His mercy. Allah is All-Forgiving, Ever Merciful.
    (100) And of those who led the way- the first of Emigrants (Muhajirun) and the Helpers (Ansar) and those who followed them in the best possible manner – Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Allah. He has prepared for them Garden beneath which rivers flow; therein they will abide forever. That is the supreme triumph.

    (101) As for the bedouin Arabs around you, some are hypocrites; and so are some of the people of Madina who have become inured to hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will chastise them doubly, and then they shall be sent to an awesome suffering.
    (102-105) There are others who have confessed their faults. They intermixed their good deeds with evil. It is likely that Allah will turn to them in mercy, for Allah is All-Forgiving, Ever Merciful. (O Prophet!) Take alms out of their riches and thereby cleanse them and bring about their growth (in righteousness), and pray for them. Indeed you prayer is a source of tranquility for them. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Are they not aware that it is Allah who accepts the repentance of His servants and takes alms, and that it is Allah Who is Oft-Relenting, Ever Merciful? And tell them (O Prophet!): ‘Keep working: Allah will behold your works and so will His Messenger and the believers; and you shall be brought back to Him Who knows that which is beyond the reach of human perception and that which is within the reach of human perception. He will then declare to you all what you have been doing.
    (106) There are others in whose regard Allah’s decree is awaited: whether He will chastise or relent towards them. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
    (107-110) Then there are others who have set up a mosque to hurt the true faith, to promote to hurt the true faith, to promote unbelief, and cause division among believers, and as an ambush for one who had earlier made war on Allah and His Messenger. They will surely swear: ‘We intended nothing but good’, whereas, Allah bears witness that they are liars. Never stand therein. Surely a mosque founded from the first day on piety is more worthy that you should stand in it for Prayer. In it are men who love to purify themselves, and Allah loves those that purify themselves. Is he, then, who has erected his structure on fear of Allah and His good pleasure better, or he who erects his string on the brink of a crumbling bank, so that it crumbles down with him into the Hell-fire? Allah does not bestow His guidance on the wrong-doing folk. And the structure, which they have erected, will ever inspire their hearts with doubts unless it be that their very hearts are cut into pieces. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
    (111-112) Surely Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their belongings and in return has promised that they shall have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, and slay and are slain. Such is the promise He has made incumbent upon Himself in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur’an. Who is more faithful to his promise than Allah? Rejoice then, in the bargain you have made with Him. That indeed is the mighty triumph. Those who constantly turn to Allah in repentance, who ever worship Him, who praise Him, who go about the world to serve His cause, who bow down to Him, who prostrate themselves before Him, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits set by Allah. To such believers announce glad tidings.
    (113-114) After it has become clear that they are condemned to the Flaming Fire, it is not for the Prophet and those who believe to ask for the forgiveness of those who associate others with Allah in His divinity even if they be near of kin. And Abraham’s prayer for the forgiveness of his father was only because of a promise, which he had made to him. Then, when it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah he dissociated himself from him. Surely Abraham was most tenderhearted, much-forbearing.

    (115-116) It is not Allah’s way to cause people to stray in error after He has guided them and until He has made clear to them what they should guard against. Surely Allah knows everything. Allah’s indeed is the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. He it is who confers life and causes death. You have no protector or helper besides Allah.

    (117-118) Surely Allah has relented towards the Prophet, and towards the Muhajirun (Emigrants) and the Ansar (Helpers) who stood by him in the hour of distress when the hearts of a party of them had well-nigh swerved. (But when they gave up swerving from the right course and followed the Prophet) Allah relented towards them. Surely to them He is Most Tender, Most Merciful. And He also relented towards the three whose cases had been deferred. When the earth, for all its spaciousness, became constrained to them, and their lives became a burden to them, and the realized that there was no refuge from Allah except in Him, He relented towards them that they may turn back to Him. Surely, it is Allah Who is Much-Forgiving, Ever Merciful.
    (119-121) Believers! Have fear of Allah and stand with those that are truthful. It did no behove the people of Madina and the bedouin Arabs around them that they should refrain from accompanying the Messenger of Allah and stay behind and prefer their own security to his. For whenever they suffer from thirst or weariness or hunger in the cause of Allah, and whenever they tread a place, which enrages the unbelievers; (whenever anything of this comes to pass) a good deed is recorded in their favor. Allah does not cause the work of the doers of good to go to waste. Likewise, each amount they spend, be it small or large, and each journey they undertake, shall be recorded in their favor so that Allah may bestow upon them reward for their good deeds.
    (122) It was not necessary for the believers to go forth all together (to receive religious instructions), but why did not a party of them go forth that they may grow in religious understanding, and that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may avoid (wrongful attitudes).
    (123-127) Believers! Fight against the unbelievers who live around you; and let them find in you sternness. Know that Allah is with the God-fearing. And whenever a new Surah is revealed some of the hypocrites ask the believers (in jest): ‘Whose faith has increased because of this?’ As for those who believe, it will certainly increase their faith, and they are joyful over that. As for those whose hearts are affected with the disease (of hypocrisy), every new Surah added a fresh abomination to their abomination. They remained unbelievers till their death. Do they not see that they are tried every year once or twice? Yet they neither repent nor take heed. And whenever a Surah is revealed, they glance at each other as though saying: ‘Is anyone watching?’ Then they slip away. Allah has turned away their hearts for they are a people who are bereft of understanding.
    (128-129) There has come to you a Messenger of Allah from amongst yourselves; one who grieves at your suffering losses, who is ardently desirous of your welfare, and who is tender and merciful to those that believe. Yet, if they should turn away, then tell them: ‘Allah is sufficient for me; there is no God but Him. In Him I have put my trust. He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne.’

    • 9-11 Infidel

      The call to Dawa perhaps? If so, go pound sand.

  • http://stopislamizationofamerica.blogspot.com/ Art Telles

    Fatwa This…

    How come no one issues a fatwa against the suicide murders and the imams who advocate terrorism, hmm?

  • 9-11 Infidel

    "Muslims are the main victims of Islamic ideology. The political system of Islam, just like fascism and communism, is a dysfunctional ideology that needs to be abandoned. Islam’s charter Quran is the root cause of Islamic terrorism, just as Marxism was the root cause of international Communist totalitarianism." – Amil Amani

  • 9-11 Infidel

    "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.” Sir Winston Churchill- The River War 1899

    • kafir4life

      And that's why the bust of Churchill was removed from the White House by Pres Hussein and returned to England. It'll probably be replaced with a bust of Arafat, Che, Castro, or Pelosi any one of which match Barry's world view more closely than Churchill's.

  • kafir4life

    Justin is speaking for the whole of the gutter cult islam much the former poster poser, abdullard mikey from texas. I choose to get my information about islam from real credentialed muslims. Not justin, not abdullard, not even Robert. Mo al-arifi is a good one. Well respected in saudi arabia. Others include Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, and Sheik Ai'dh Al-Qarni. There are many scores of others. I wonder where justin gets his information from?

    • 9-11 Infidel

      As do I. A great source of Islam is at Islamwatch. There's tons of great Muslim speakers there. Apostacy is in the air and here to stay. Also, Ibn Warriq, Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, Walid Shoebat, Amil Amani. Adul Karrem, Ali Sina. Ayesha Muhammed, and the new star on the block, Mosab Hassan Yousef. The best sources of Islam are the people who lived it…and the best interpretations of Islam (aside from the raging tagiyya) is the terrorists themselves.

  • Samurai Hit Woman

    Christian scripture admonishes Christians to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
    This is because both Jews and Christians worship the same God, a God who cares about Jerusalem, and Allah is not that God.

    For instance, Allah demands Allah’s law should prevail everywhere. But the God of Christians and Jews instructs there be a separation of church and state, making render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar and to God the things that are God’s, a value shared by both Jews and Christians while the Muslims kill (killing is forbidden by the Judeo-Christian God) as a religious duty to establish Allah’s laws.

    These are some examples of the difference between Allah and the Judeo-Christian God and there are plenty more. In fact the Dome of the rock that has been built over the destroyed Temple of God, is probably the abomination that desolates prophesied by Daniel because the Temple and its ground are holy and the dome of the rock being built there is an abomination.

    We gentile Christians share the same God with Jews because the Jews took their values to the gentiles through Christ. Our Christian scriptures teach it’s to the Jews first and then to the gentile establishing an order because the Jew was, in fact, first. Moreover, according to scripture, “to them (the Jews) belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs; and from them, according to the flesh comes the messiah…”

    Further, the displacement of the Jews is temporary and will last until “the time of the gentiles is fulfilled”. In the meanwhile we have been blessed with freedom in this country because freedom is a Judeo-Christian value and Christians are the founders of this country. America’s people have, in the past, honored the God of Jacob and His liberty, and established Judeo- Christian ethics here as their guide in life.

    Unfortunately the country has become increasingly corrupt with the abolishment of these ethics and mention of the God of Jacob is forbidden in the public square while mention of Allah is not forbidden. This development is anathema to the beginnings of this country and the continuance of its freedom. John Adams said our mode of government could only be sustained by a moral and religious (Judeo-Chistian) people. That statement is now being proven true and there is an encroachment of slavery as people become more and more dependent on government. There is no such thing as a free lunch and this dependence on government is a snare.

  • Nemesis

    Why on earth are all you people wasting time argueing with asslifting, goatshagging, paedophile-worshipping "Justin"? Can't you see taqqiyah is his assigned mission and that's what he does for a living? Muslims will get what's coming to them soon enough, and what Europeans will do to them will make the Holocaust look like a spanking…

  • Ragnar

    Read the Koran: it is all there-anyone who is an unbeliever is fair game for conversion,persecution,slavery, violent death. "Mein Kampf" was dismissed or defended by the "intellectual" elites who were part of the ruling classes here or abroad and we know how that mess was closed out by two nuclear blasts.

  • livingengine

    Justin said:

    "It should be noted that major Islamic scholars strongly restricted the application of Abrogation. An authoritative text on that is the Itqan of Suyuti, in which he mentioned 20 verses were abrogated (not including the peace verses). He even made a poem about it to teach Muslims. Shah Wali Allah, a famous Muslim scholar in India, thinks only 5 verses were abrogated (again, not including the peace verses)."

    It is funny you should mention Shah Wali-Ullah, because he is an advocate of violent jihad, a contemporary of Abdul Wahhab, and his ideas have inspired many jihadists.

    This man is quite well known, and you can read about him, as I have done, at various websites.

    Like this one – http://www.saag.org/common/uploaded_files/paper62

    For Justin to invoke Wali-Ullah’s name while claiming Islam is a religion of peace is extraordinary.

  • 9-11 Infidel

    You made my point for me. Justin hasn't a clue as to what he is talking about.

  • unbeleiver1

    Justin.How do you explain all the act of terror by people who claim to be followers of Islam and quoting Quranic verses?Are people like Bin Laden good or bad Muslims?
    You keep quoting verses from the Bible,which advocate violence;but where are the Christians
    who are carrying out suicide bombings while quoting these verses,or in the name of Jesus?
    Would you say that Christians are being disobedient for not following these verses?
    Like the saying goes,if it walks like a duck ,it is a duck.Too many acts of violence are being carried out in the name of Islam for the world not to notice.

  • Unbeleiver1

    Justin,you should talk to all these jihadists about how much they 'misunderstand' Islam.
    Put them right. These people need to know the Koran more than those who are not followers of the religion. If they — jihadist are shown the truth of the Koran, Islam would not have to be defended ,because there would be no terrorist acts by these groups.

    • Abdullah Mikail

      It is not his duty to talk to them, as you try to frame it, the 'misunderstanders' …what a pathetic tongue in cheek copout it is for a pundit to write that… yet, if he sees ignorant people spreading lies and obfuscating he has a duty to point it out and speak (write) the truth, which he does well.

      The samples that pundits like Spencer hold up and push to the forefront are not valid in respect to what he tries to correlate them to… the individuals involved almost never claim their motivation is the "hadith or verse" that Spencer falsely associates as having a causal motivational relationship, and even in the rare instance it is claimed by them even a basic student of true Islamic knowledge can see how wrong that person is in their claim, and, furthermore, how pathetic it is for Spencer to push it forward as "the example" and not the exception …there is always something wrong with the example he holds up as it is never a valid representation of Islam, ever.

      • livingengine

        FORT HOOD

  • livingengine

    "Suyuti said that everything in the Qur'an about forgiveness and peace is abrogated by verse 9:5, which orders Muslims to fight the unbelievers and to establish God's kingdom on earth." http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abroga

  • http://ww.fuaad.com fuaad

    Spencer is a big big hate-preacher, Bigotry..

    • livingengine

      liar

  • Katy

    Thanks for the article. Pretty well written.
    Katy Perry

  • portuguesamericano

    Sorry, Justin, you are absolutely wrong. The Bible has some violent verses, but they are all in the Old Testament and applied only in a designated time and place. The New Testament is the Gospel of Christ and teaches only peace and love and brotherhood for all mankind.

    On the other hand, the Qu'ran is rife with commandments to hate Infidels, slay the unbelievers wherever they are to be found, convert the Kuffar by coercion or force them to pay the jizya and submit as subservient dhimmis, or be killed.

    Every Muslim is required to do his part to make sure that Islam and sharia law is imposed on every land, until all the earth is for Allah.

    No other religion teaches hatred for unbelievers and has the unrelenting goal of imposing its totalitarian system on mankind.

  • portuguesamericano

    Justin

    I neglected to mention that Islam employs the principle of abrogation to confuse the Infidels; for instance, Muslims are fond of quoting the verses from the Qu'ran stating that there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qu'ranic verse–"There shall be no compulsion in religion." (2:256). But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about "no compulsion in religion" has been canceled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, "compulsion in religion" for Muslims, and for non-Muslims impacted by them.

    You are engaging in the Muslim art of "taqiyya", or deception…

  • 9-11 Infidel

    Nope. You're dead wrong. The Bible commands "Thou Shalt not murder" To love your enemies, to good to those who persecute you. The Bible's Golden Rule does not exist in Islam. It is commanded of all Islamists to conduct jihad (quitaal) until "the only religion left is Allah's religion. Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
    You have studied neither the Bible nor the Muslim Trilogy, nor the companion of Sharia – The Reliance of the Traveler. Come back when you have a clue.

  • Courtnye’

    there you go again justin, not the brightest cookie are you. There were no christians in the old test. that was way before christ came, and christians….I know,,i read it, apparently you didn’t. you should only comment on things you know about!!

  • abdullahmikail

    You are ignorant of the truth, yet pretend to scholarship in it. You are in the same boat as the author…hypocrite.

    All references you people drive your pens with are made in error, period. This person's example was spot on to how you do it, and you even gave what you attack others with as the "standard apologist" response.

  • Justin

    Actually, you are absolutely wrong. Here's a few NT quotes:

    "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

    I am sure you will invoke context to explain these apparent belligerent verses. But hypocrites like Spencer think context doesn't apply to Quran interpretation.

  • Justin

    Wrong again. Islam does not command forced conversion.

    "There is no coercion in religion." (2:256)

    Prophet Muhammad taught, like Jesus, to love your neighbor. He said: "None of you believes until he loves for his neighbor what he loves for himself." (Sahih Bukhari)

    You obviously never really read the Bible or the Quran.

  • Justin

    I had a feeling that canard would pop up. Whenever you refute Islamophobes with the Quran, they always seem to invoke "abrogation." (In this way, both Muslims and Islamophobes get to cherry pick verses to suit their whims).

    It should be noted that major Islamic scholars strongly restricted the application of Abrogation. An authoritative text on that is the Itqan of Suyuti, in which he mentioned 20 verses were abrogated (not including the peace verses). He even made a poem about it to teach Muslims. Shah Wali Allah, a famous Muslim scholar in India, thinks only 5 verses were abrogated (again, not including the peace verses).

    The verse 2:256 is not abrogated, the majority of scholars throughout history have not believed it was abrogated. For this reason, Muslims historically did not force conversion and the evidence for that is the continued existence of Christian and other non-Muslim communities in Egypt, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, etc. etc. This is in stark constrast to European Middle Age Crusader Christianity, which in fact did force conversion to Christianity.

    Your comment neglects the wealth of Muslim scholarship and historical reality.

  • portuguesamericano

    Justin

    The prophet Muhammad said the following:

    8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshiping others besides Allah) and and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone (in the whole of the world). But if they cease (worshiping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

    8:57. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e., the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

    9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the last day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    9:33. It is He (Allah) Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

    The Qu'ran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims is unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, westerners will continue to misread the Qu'ran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."

    We all see through taqiyya!

  • Justin

    The Quran also says:

    "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)." (8:61)

    You know nothing about what Muslim scholars have said about abrogation. It is just your excuse to conveniently dismiss the clear Quranic verses on peaceful coexistence. Oh, and your invocation of taqiyya is also an excuse to dismiss any Muslim who champions peaceful coexistence.

    I think it is very sad to see Islamophobes invoke concepts they know absolutely nothing about.

  • abdullahmikail

    Keep up the good struggle…

    Portugeseamericano, just as Spencer, are both purposefully avoiding the truth…put anything into its proper context and it shows how little they both know…publishing dollars and the political status quo is what drives people like them…willfully ignorant, purposefully obfuscating…rascals.

  • portuguesamericano

    Justin

    Sorry, but the Christian and Jewish communities in Muslim lands live as dhimmis and the Coptic Christians in Egypt are constantly harassed (remember the slaughter of Christian farmers' pigs by the government on the pretext of their being infected by H1N1 (swine flu)?

    In Gaza and the West bank the Christians and Jews live in fear and dhimmitude.

    In Iran non-Muslims live in fear and dhimmitude.

    In sub-Saharan Africa the Muslims have been slaughtering Christians and Animists.

    In Jordan the Christians live in fear and dhimmitude.

    Muslim "scholarship" is an oxymoron! History tells a much different story than your "Muslim is a religion of peace" fantasizing!

  • portuguesamericano

    What are we Kuffar to believe about the fruits of Islam? The proclamations of the apologists for Islam or our lying eyes?

    This may be off the point, but why do no Muslim countries produce top-ranked scientists, artists, poets, writers, engineers, Nobel-Prize winners (Oh, I forgot that terrorist Yasser Arafat!)

    I wonder if it has something to do with the suffocating attitudes induced by the teachings of Islam (Inshallah fatalism, the denigration of reason) (the totality of truth is contained in the Qu'ran and Hadiths), the limitation of education for women in the Muslim world, etc.

    It is interesting-more books are translated from other languages into Spanish every year than into Arabic over the centuries!

    (Two of the most popular translations in Muslim countries are Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", that fabrication done under the auspices of Czarist Russia.

    Oh, of course, I am aware of the alleged Muslim "age of enlightenment" wherein Muslim scholars translated Greek texts into Arabic, and where Muslim rulers in Spain and the Middle East allowed dhimmi scholars to pursue learning, but in more modern times Muslim countries have been abjectly bereft of serious scholarship in anything but Islamic studies.

  • Justin

    I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues with non-Muslim minorities. But you are exaggerating and only repeating buzz words (dhimmitude). Dhimmi literally means "protected person." How did it become a perjorative term?

    Note that at the time when Europe denied basic rights to all non-Christians or unorthodox Christians, the Muslims gave basic rights to non-Muslims (i.e. religious freedom, protection), some of them even serving in the Muslims' administration. Even Muslims lived under the Christian king of Abysinia and served in his army. This, despite the unrelenting and irrational hostility most Christians have historically had towards all Muslims.

    I don't know what imaginary history you are talking about.

  • Justin

    There are a number of untruths in this post:

    1) Islam has always had rational movements (i.e. Ashari, Mutazilah, etc.). The Quran praises those who "reflect" (fikr) and "reason" (aql).

    2) As for women, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Turkey, and Pakistan have all had women Prime Ministers. Has there ever been a women President of the US?

    3) Who brought the Protocols and Mein Kampf to the Middle East? Christian European anti-semites.

    4) Even fundamentalist Saudi Arabia is opening up a new university devoted to science and technology, so your claim that Muslim countries only study Islam is again totally untrue.

    5) Mohamed El Baradei, a Muslim, won the Noble Peace Prize in 2005.

    Just like an anti-Semite, you are sooo certain you know Islam is pure evil yet you don't seem to know very much about the Muslim world!

  • Martin K.

    "Peace" means that one doesn't fight against ISLAM! This means one has either *surrendered* to Islam, or accepted the second-class citizen status!

    A example of how MUSLIMS integrate into western society.

    9 years ago, I could walk down the street and find spezial food shops ("Würstel-Buden") small sausage shops run by one or two persons where one would get Pork-meat and other stuff.

    TODAY NINE out of 10 of them have switched to ISLAMIC only food, ELIMINATING the old AUSTRIAN traditional food! And why? Because a religion only for dummies demands that a live animal is slaughtered slitting its throat while reciting a Quran verse! But worse of it, because pork is forbidden (unclean) the shop can't sell both variants of food! In fact I liked that islamic food too, but since it REPLACES my OWN TRADITIONAL food, I stopped buying it. The shopkeepers could make much MORE money if they could cater to ALL tastes, but a stupid religion forbids it! And this is ENRICHING our culture? GIMME A BREAK! Hell no it's REPLACING age-old culture with another. So play your silly game, but you can' t fool me.

  • Martin K.

    to your point 3:
    It is utterly IRRELEVANT who brought the books there, the POINT SHOULD BE:
    Who the hell is buying it today? Who is poising their own mind today with this GARBAGE? MUSLIMS! Thanks a lot Dude, you are hilarious!

  • portuguesamericano

    Christians did not bring Mein Kampf to the Muslim world. It was the pagan Nazis. The so-called "Christians" who presented the "Protocols" were not living their religion. Funny how the Muslims gladly accepted these two books, though; they fit right in with their beliefs that the Jews were evil destroyers, and apes and pigs. (The "Palestinian" children have that taught to them in school and in childrens' TV programs).

    As has been noted previously, Hitler found that some of his most ardent supporters were Arabs, and they helped him with his "final solution to the Jewish problem."

    Many Nazis, after WWII, ended up in the Arab states.

  • Democracy First

    They've had woman because of their tribal affiliation. Moreover, as Turkey turns Islamist – that is, adheres to Islamic scripture, custom and teaching, women are losing influence. That is telling.

  • Justin

    I take umbrage with predatorial European white fascists taking advantage of a colonized people by indoctrinating them with fascist propaganda. Hamas learned its bigotry from the West.

  • portuguesamericano

    Dhimmitude does mean "protection"; however, the dhimmi must not dress as a Muslim, must not be over a Muslim, he cannot carry a weapon, he must pay the jizya with groveling submission, churches cannot be constructed or repaired in a Muslim country, dhimmis are not allowed to proselyte, dhimmis must not openly display religious books or symbols–the list goes on and on. The "protection" of dhimmihood is provisional, subject to the whims of the ruling Muslims.

    The hostility that Christians have had against Muslims derives from long centuries of persecution by marauding Muslim armies and the imperative of Islam to subdue or kill all those who refuse to convert to Islam. See the death and destruction being visited on the Southern Nigerian Christians and animists by the Muslims, and the violence towards Christians in Egypt, Afghanistan, and Iran. The life and safety of the dhimmi in any Muslim country is problematic. They have to tiptoe carefully so as not to rile the Umma.

  • Justin

    Actually, Islam does teach the golden rule. Prophet Muhammad said, "None of you believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." [Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 2, #12] The famous scholar Nawawi explained that the word "brother" means all humankind.

    If this is really about upholding the golden rule, then you should be happy to know Muslims believe in the golden rule, and have issued this proclamation of peace between Islam and Christianity:
    http://www.acommonword.com

  • Justin

    So it seems you are more angry about food. And you are correct that Muslims have a right to self-defense, as do all people according to International Law, but I don't see how that is incriminating to Islam. Nothing in Islam infringes on your right to eat whatever food you want. We eat halal because we want to praise and thank God for giving us food.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

    Your takiya isn't fooling anyone. Mahound broke all 10 Commandments. 6 of them on one day alone. He was nothing but a fraud.

  • Martin K.

    Lemme see: The “kooran” is the “final word of a deity. It is a “clear/plain book”

    NQ

    O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our

    Messenger (Muhammad SAW) explaining to you much of that which you used

    to hide from the Scripture and passing over (i.e. leaving out without

    explaining) much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allâh a light (Prophet

    Muhammad SAW ) and a plain Book (this Qur'ân).

    PK
    O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you,

    expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and

    forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,

    SH
    O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear

    to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much;

    indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

    And yet you need many special sciences to decipher and explain the “clear/pain” book?
    So think about this for a while: If the “kooooran” is the final word of your stonedgod allah, when and how did all the scholars come up with the “science” and “insights” to “explain” the kooran?
    But again no need to reply, since you have a much more important task, bring your erring brothers of faith back to the true “peaceful” religion. Maybe then Muslims in Indonesia will not attack Christianity or close their places of worship.

    “http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Bogor:-Islamic-extremists-stronger-than-the-Supreme-Court,-Protestant-church-closed-18139.html”

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

    But then he'd have nothing at all to say!

  • Democracy First

    You ignore the long imperialist march of Islam, beginning with mohammed, and you ignore a principle theme of the koran and hadith and Sura, and you ignore principle Islamic theologians. As is widely understood, the peaceful verses were abrogated by the violent ones to follow.

    The bottom line is that to pick up the notion that Islam is inherently peaceful is to let down your guard. It is to put western sensibility to be nice, understanding, tolerant ahead of the evidence before you, past and present. It is to prject your western values onto another civilization.

    Only when Islamic nations live and let live, allow women genuine rights, allow minorities to live in peace and practise their faith without hindrance, and on and on, can we perhaps agree with Muslim moderates that their faith is one of peace. Until then, it is unwise, even suicidal, to overlook all the evidence to the contrary.

  • Martin K.

    Look Dude, it is not only food, one can't go to a public swimming pool, if muslim girls are there, and they demand to leave, because they requested the pool to be closed for male users. Never mind the fact that even if only woman are there, they use the silly burkinni. A woman friend of mine a “naturist” (those people who enjoy outdoor life in the nude) made the big joke to take off her swimmsuit on such a “only woman afternoon” They got angry in a hurry at her.

    It's the removing of crucifixes in public buildings, banning a figure called “Nikolaus” visiting children in Kindergarden on the 6.of December giving them presents. Banning Pork meat in Schools/Kindergarten. Banning “Christmas-plays” (Nativity Scenes) in Schools, because some muslim kids (who know NOTHING about their religion) could be offended! It's about elderly people being forced off the sidewalk because muslim youth “claim” this as their property. Its about young woman threatened to forfeit their seats in public buses, because a muslim youth wants to sit, while a “kaffir whore” should stand. You know, a “kaffir whore” is ANY woman who doesn't wear a islamic veil. Its sexually attacking “kaffir whores” just because they look sexy!

    It's about REMOVING the Bible from Hotel-rooms because if there is no “koooran” a Muslim could get offended. Hey whats wrong with the Bible after all you Muslims claim that it was revealed by the same god? Want more? It's about teenagers chasing other children from public playgrounds because the muslims claim it to be theirs ONLY! It's about a Church in Vienna being vandalized by muslims thugs and the churchgoers being threatened. So don't you talk to me about the religion of peace. But you know what? Why don't you convince YOUR OWN Brothers in faith, to stop killing others, and really show THEM THE RELIGION OF PEACE. If you have done that then only maybe then have you a right trying to convert people to your religion. You have your work cut out for you,. You don't need to reply, because to convince your own brothers of faith that suicide-killing is wrong is much more difficult. Heck there was a 600 page fatwa against Suicide-killings published, and still people are being killed. So better get going and SHOW THEM THEIR errors of their ways. Good luck to you from the bottom of my heart. :-)

  • Martin K.

    I'm deeply offended by Islam trying to force its religion and culture on others!

    No the Hamas people can read the islamic writings in its original language, if killing Jews wouldn't be in there, (Koooran Hadith) it would not matter if the WEST advocates killing Jews. No Muslims don't need inspiration for this from the outside. Hey Dude Osama Bin Laden is fluent in Arabic! So don't blame the West, for something Muslims are more then capable to to achive on their own! But you know what? Why don't you convince YOUR OWN Brothers in faith, to stop killing others, and really show THEM THE RELIGION OF PEACE. If you have done that then only maybe then have you a right trying to convert people to your religion. You have your work cut out for you,. You don't need to reply, because to convince your own brothers of faith that suicide-killing is wrong is much more difficult. Heck there was a 600 page fatwa against Suicide-killings published, and still people are being killed. So better get going and SHOW THEM THEIR errors of their ways. Good luck to you from the bottom of my heart. :-)