Theology for a Holocaust

UC-San Diego student Jumanah Imad Albahri last week, under questioning from David Horowitz, refused to condemn Hamas and Hizballah and endorsed a genocidal statement by Hizballah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Many were shocked. Albahri’s statement is being treated as a singular utterance, a lapse that has nothing to do with the Muslim Students Association of which she is a part, and certainly not with Islam as a whole.

Unfortunately, Albahri’s support for genocide of the Jews doesn’t reveal that she is a closet Nazi, but that she is an entirely mainstream Muslim. Genocidal statements are painfully common from Muslim leaders today. On January 29, Palestinian Authority TV, which is controlled by the ostensibly moderate Fatah faction of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, broadcast a Friday mosque sermon containing this reference to the notorious genocidal hadith in which Muhammad says that the end times would not come until Muslims started murdering Jews: “The Prophet says: ‘You shall fight the Jews and kill them, until the tree and the stone will speak and say: “Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah”’ — the tree and the stone will not say, ‘Oh Arab,’ they will say, ‘Oh Muslim.’ And they will not say, ‘Where are the millions?’ and will not say, ‘Where is the Arab nation?’ Rather, they will say, ‘Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah — there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ Except for the Gharqad tree, which is the tree of the Jews. Thus, this land will be liberated only by means of Jihad.”

In the original hadith, Muhammad says that “the last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews” (Sahih Muslim 6985).

If the “last hour” will not come until Muslims start murdering Jews wholesale, then what’s to prevent a pious young lady like Jumanah Imad Albahri from believing that speaking approvingly of the mass-murder of Jews, as Nasrallah did, is a holy and pious act?

Clearly other Muslims do. On January 12, a top Iranian official, Mohammad Hassan Rahimian, declared on Al-Manar TV: “We have manufactured missiles that allow us, when necessary, to replace Israel in its entirety with a big holocaust.” And on December 29, 2009, Muhammad Hussein Yaaqub, an Islamic cleric, dashed hopes for the usefulness of interfaith discussions when he said this on Egypt’s Al-Nas TV: “The Jews are our enemies. Allah will annihilate them at our hands. This is something we know for certain. We know this for certain – not because I say so, but because Allah said so. ‘You shall find that the people strongest in enmity to the believers are the Jews and the polytheists.’”

Yaaqub was quoting from the Qur’an (5:82).

Ahmad Al-Barqawi, professor of philosophy from Damascus University, joined the genocidal chorus on Syria TV on December 15, 2009: “If the enemy reaches a stage in which it feels that it is paying a heavy price for its occupation – both in terms of human lives and in terms of resources – it will give up. Without this, there is no chance of reconciliation with the enemy. Therefore, I believe that the annihilation of Israel is easier than reconciliation with it. Annihilating Israel is easier than reconciling with it, because annihilating Israel through a long-term and consistent effort may bear fruit in a society that feels it is alien to this [Arab] world, and does not want to remain in a world that rejects by force.”

None of this should come as any surprise. The genocidal hadith quoted on Palestinian TV is just one element of an anti-Semitism that is deeply rooted in the Qur’an and Sunnah, and which runs through Islamic history with a remarkable consistency. The Qur’an portrays the Jews as the craftiest, most persistent, and most implacable enemies of the Muslims. Three notorious Qur’anic passages depict an angry Allah transforming Jews into apes and pigs: 2:63–66; 5:59–60; and 7:166. The first of those passages depicts Allah telling the Jews who “profaned the Sabbath”: “Be as apes despicable!” It goes on to say that these accursed ones serve “as a warning example for their time and for all times to come.” The second has Allah directing Muhammad to remind the “People of the Book” about “those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil.” The third essentially repeats this, saying of the Sabbath-breaking Jews that when “in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions,” Allah said to them, “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.”

In traditional Islamic theology these passages have not been considered to apply to all Jews. However, that hasn’t stopped contemporary jihadists from frequently referring to Jews as the “descendants of apes and swine.” The implication is that today’s Jews are bestial in character and are the enemies of Allah, just as the Sabbath-breakers were. The grand sheikh of Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the most respected cleric in the world among Sunni Muslims today, has called Jews “the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs.” Saudi sheikh Abd al-Rahman al-Sudayyis, imam of the principal mosque in the holiest city in Islam, Mecca, said in a sermon that Jews are “the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs.”

Another Saudi sheikh, Ba’d bin Abdallah al-Ajameh al-Ghamidi, made the connection explicit: “The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places … is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam—which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam.” A 1996 Hamas publication says that today’s Jews are bestial in spirit, and this is a manifestation of the punishment of their forefathers. In January 2007, Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas stated, “The sons of Israel are mentioned as those who are corrupting humanity on earth,” referring to Qur’an 5:64.

Likewise, Sheikh ‘Atiyyah Saqr, writing in Islam Online, declares of Jews that “Almighty Allah told us that He’d send to them people who’d pour on them rain of severe punishment that would last till the Day of Resurrection.” Then comes a threat: “All this gives us glad tidings of the coming victory of Muslims over them once Muslims stick to strong faith and belief in Allah and adopt the modern means of technology.”

Modern means of technology? Perhaps a nuclear bomb exploded in Tel Aviv? If that happened, Jumanah Imad Albahri would by no means be the only Muslim who would thank Allah for his bounties.

  • Rob

    Dysfunctional airheads are not new, nor are the dumb things they say and do.

    I asked one foreign muslim what he thought about abortion. He had no idea millions of babies were killed by their mothers through legal procedures. He was morally outraged. I'm sure he would've gotten defensive if I asked him why muslims are killing buddhists. And I'm sure this young American girl would be in disbelief if she were educated on how muslims treat women in the middle east. She would probably call you a liar for showing her Iranian law.

    The problem is the dysfunctional culture, a cycle of abuse, which spawns people like this who are afraid to think or be responsible for themselves.

    • joeblough

      The dysfunctional culture is certainly a problem. And it has a name … Islam.

      In any case, once such people come into being, they become problems in their own right. It serves no useful purpose to make excuses for them, On the contrary, it endangers the innocent without helping the guilty.

      To be more specific, it endangers you without enlightening the nasty little Jew hating airhead.

      Enlightenment is difficult of achievement when ardently longed for and actively pursued. Do not be so arrogant as to believe you can deliver it to people who aren't even seeking it.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/bpaolucci bpaolucci

        you see the problem as being that of nasty little Jew hating airheads. You are limiting the problem.

        First on the list is Jews, next is Americans and after that, everyone who doesn't convert to Islam. By focusing only on Jews and Arabs you miss the far bigger picture.

        Iran's nutjob leader begins each speech with the phrase that translates to: may Allah help him to bring about the return of the 12th Imam. That means to bring on the worldwide bloodbath, for which they have positioned themselves, WORLDWIDE, so that when the call comes – which will likely be be in 2012, the slaughter begins and it is that worldwide bloodbath that must take place so that the 12 Imam can return to earth. As good an excuse as any for world domination, isn't it.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/joeblough joeblough

          I think you have misread what I intended as examples as specifics.

          No harm. I think I misread you anyway.

    • Stan

      Rob you stated "…which spawns people like this who are afraid to think or be responsible for themselves. If The Majority of the people thought seriously before voting for the democratic line/Obama our planet & our country would be more stable at this time. His background was out in the open for all who wanted to see his hate for jews, our country (US), Capitolism, Freedom, Israel & more were clear but they put it aside and made excuses to vote for him. Most are ashamed to say they voted the communist line. Think for themselves…Did you?

      • Rob

        Stan, I believe the modern left is a dysfunctional counterculture not much different from Islamic ones. Our zealots are after the "evil" rich and corporations. I also believe we need to assimilate such uncivilized groups before they assimilate us. Letting them write laws is unthinkable.

        But as long as conservatives are afraid to rock the boat, the left will continue building their idealist utopia. At what point do we consider the left to be beyond assimilation?

  • http://newstime.co.nz Stephanie

    http://schnellmann.org/Genocide.html
    - Genocide to the Jews –
    Page 19 "… MUHAMMAD WAS THE FIRST NAZI SS MAN: THE FIRST ADOLF HITLER"

    Transforming Jews & Christians into Apes & Swine! (Quran 2:65, 5:60, 7:166)

    "The Last Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."

    Many calls for Murder to the Jews in the ahadith
    Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6981 – 6985
    Shahi Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 + 177
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791

    (Sahih: correct, authentic)

    • Raza

      How many people died because of Muslims? On the other hand due to Hitler millions died. Is is make sense to compare the person (Prophet Muhummed, PBUH) who brought peace for the whole world to the Hitler. I have advice for you, either learn the Islamic book according to context or go the mental hospital.

      • raelene

        How many people died because of Muslims? At the hands of Mohammed himself, over 1000. At the hands of his immediate successor, 10s of 1000s. From the time the Muslims first encountered Hindus, 80 million Hindus have been killed, including 10s of 1000s in my lifetime. In the last 30 years, over 100 thousand people have been killed by Muslims for political/faith reasons. In a game of who is the worst, Hitler, Mao, or Mohammed, Mohammed would win for lifetime numbers of murders in his name.

        • Syd Barrett

          Good answer raelene. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking up the numbers.

          Just for grins, you should've added Jesus to that list – having killed no one. You know, just to contrast with Mohammed (eternal punishment from God be upon him.)

      • tanstaafl jw

        It is estimated that Muslims and Islam has killed over 270 million people over Islam's 1400 year history.

        Quiz question – How many deadly Islamic jihad attacks have occurred since 9/11?

      • em2brown

        considering muslims eraticated three tribes of jews that lived in said arabia and oh they still are killing people i say they have deffinatley killed more than hitler and the number keeps going

  • Roy

    Rest assured that the muslims will launch a all and nothing attack on isreal when they feel they can achieve thier goal.
    Now the nothing part. In the event of a decapitation strike on isreals goverment they likly have a dead mans hand on their atomic weapons that will strike every one of isreals declared enemies from a preprogramed hit list. Iran, Syria, Sadie Arabia,( I hope the sauds get hit, their oil isnt that important to us in the long run)
    Hezzbola ( yes the lebineese will suffer but they should have stopped hezzbola them selves and will now pay the price for their hospitality.

    The end result is the middle east will be the largest deposit of radio active glass in the world. and with the reputation muslims have earned for them selves im confident that the rest of the world will not open thier arms to the flood arab refugees attemtping to flee what thier religion will bring them to.

    • gracie

      Roy I appreciated you standing up for Israel, but you will be more effective if you spell is properly. It is Israel not Isreal.

      Bless you,

      Gracie

    • http://www.lifeshaven.net Utopian

      Consider the reason modern Israel exists: it is to restore to public display the ark of the covenant containing the Ten Commandment Law. Hidden in Jeremiah's grotto since the fall of Judah, the day will come when they will be restored, convicting all men of the words, "ye shall find rest for your souls" (Jeremiah 6:16). These laws of Utopia rebuke the world's course of action because all heartache, suffering and death result from their rejection.

    • http://www.pvewildlife.com Philjam

      Israel is our point man. We have to go in and mop up but I doubt that will happen in the current political climate.

  • USMCSniper

    Whenever you are dealing with Muslims that are in conflict with other peoples, andy compromise is like mixing food with poison. Ayn Rand said it best: " In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit."

  • gracie

    I talked to a young christian man who was making a documentary about the Palestinian issue. He was an appeaser who wanted to approach the problem without bringing certain inflammatory topics, but to approach it in commonality. I asked him how he was addressing the Hamas charter that called for the annihilation of Israel. His comment? We aren't talking about that. I realized there was no discussing the issue with this man.

    • davarino

      I think the movie is "With God On our Side". I watched this film and it is a propaganda piece meant to relax America's support of Israel. This movie is shown in churches to try and "inform" them of the "real" situation. The film starts by trying to break down christians support of Israel based on biblical premises of which I am not that interested in. My reason for supporting Israel is from a foriegn polocy view point, in that Israel is the only democracy in the region and also helps to hold back "radical" islam. The first time I saw Norman Finkelstein in this film I knew it was total propaganda. Look up Finkelstein in Discover the Network to find out who this guy is.

  • WildJew

    A friend of mine, living in Israel, who is a friend of Sheikh Professor Abdul Hadi Palazzi…

    http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=7298

    …wrote the following after I urged him to watch the video:

    I watched the video, and I will tell you right now this young woman Jumana Imad al-Bahri is a good Wahhabi. Wahhabis are heretics to Islam but since they own Mecca and Medina, they get to say "we're Muslims" and it gets dangerous to say "no" to them.

    No decent G-d fearing MUSLIM will say "exterminate the Jews". Only Wahhabi and their spoor say these things.

    Just because it says CAMELS on a cigarette box does not mean that there are CAMEL cigarettes in the box – or even cigarettes at all. This (woman behaved like) a Wahhabi – and that is what she is. But, I'll give her credit for better manners than David Horowitz, that's for sure. That was something I did not expect.

    • tanstaafl jw

      What about the hadith that states the KIngdom of Heaven will not come until the very stones cry out – "O Muslim! Come, quickly! There is a Jew hiding behind me! Come and kill them."

      Do only Wahhabi's consider that hadith valid? I do not think so.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/WildJew WildJew

        Good question. I do not agree with my friend that Wahhabi or Salafi Islam is heresy. Nor am I certain in what way he feels D. Horowitz was rude to the woman, unless he is referring to the end of the exchange, whereby Horowitz told the young woman he was not going to provide her a platform to make a speech, and then moved on to the next question from the audience.

        • Democracy First

          And as we'll probably agree, it is irrelevant whether Wahabism is valid or not. It exists. it dominates much of the Islamic world. And it will not disappear until Muslims do that – of which we see very little hope for that now.

          Moreover, the iranian Shiite regime has the same idea, making the question all the more irrelevant.

    • Stan

      "wildjew" it seems to fit you well. You want to see the good in man/woman even if it's not there. I have found over time the worst enemies of Jews are Jewish & I am Jewish. Many Jews the Holocaust refused to believe there was anything wrong until it was to late.
      The old story goes…first they came for Catholics, I'm not Catholic so I'm ok. We are in reality now, Face it, it is not a Dream.
      There are dozens & dozens of islamic terrorist groups/organizations & they believe their beliefs are superior to all others & it should be world law. If you are anything other you either submit to it or deserve to die. . The FUTURE of our Country, The United States of America is questionable at best which makes the stability of our planet questionable as well. I have seen this coming September 2008.

  • http://www.lifeshaven.net Utopian

    Arabs are descendants of a man named Ishmael, the son of Abraham. Both the Jews and Arabs come from the loins of Abraham. But each son had a different mother: one was his wife and the other a slave. It is the slave that hates the free and the blessed. It is written, "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him." Genesis 16:12. But in the end Ishmael worshiped the God of Abraham, not the god of Muhammad called allah. Therefore, Muslims dishonor their father Ishmael in violation of the 5th Commandment.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/WildJew WildJew

      Muslims claim, "Allah is the God of Abraham." How would you answer this claim?

      • Sam

        I will answer that, WildJew. Muhammad claims that "Allah" is the God of Abraham. But Jews and Christians do not worship the same God that Muslims worship. This is obvious, when you read and contrast the Koran with the Bible.

        I have two theories surrounding the founding of Islam:

        This is what we are told: When Muhammad journeyed to Mt. Hira, he claimed to be divinely inspired by Allah, who sent the Angel Gabriel to teach him about the doctrine of Islam.

        1) Muhammad went up to Mt. Hira, no divine being visited him and he made up the whole Islamic doctrine, taking aspects of Judea-Christian theology and mixing in his fascistic worldview. He then brought that ideology to society, reaping its rewards through plunder.

        OR

        2) Muhammad went to Mt. Hira, and was visited by an Angel. But the Angel deceptively told him that he/she/it was Gabriel. This Angel claimed to be passing down the divine word of Allah. Who do you think this Angel was? If one agrees with this scenario, it is not hard to conclude who the Deceiver was…

        • tanstaafl jw

          I'm going with Number 1. You might find this E-book interesting.
          http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_c

        • Victoria

          Let's not forget that even Muhammad questioned whether this angel and the verses handed down to him were godly–>satanic verses?!? EXACTLY!!

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/WildJew WildJew

          You passed the test! You gave the right answer. Allah is not the same God as YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because, as you state, the words in the Qur'an are very different from the words of YHWH in our Bible; the word of God to Moses and the prophets. I agree with #2. I believe it is possible to receive a perverted vision or revelation from an angel or a divine being. I believe that is at the core of the notion that Muhammad was deceived by the angel Satan; the so-called "Satanic Verses." I cannot say everything in the Qur'an is evil. A significant amount of it is in my view. If Muslims want to do good in God's eyes, they would read, study and live by the teachings in the Hebrew Bible.

          • Grayzell

            As an ex-Mormon, believe me, I agree.

  • Ken

    I find it fascinating that in the 21st century people are still referring to writings of long ago as arguments for one thing or another. In addition, those writings have gone through numerous transcriptions, each generation adding or subtracting as to their own needs. Who on Earth today can say that these writings (Koran, Bible, etc.) are of any value? How can you, as ignorant humans (myself included) decide what is right and what is wrong? Can't we all just live on this small planet in a way that makes us happy in the way that we see happiness? Why must someone come to my door asking me to join their church? If their faith in their belief is strong, then what does it matter what I believe? Take this thought and expand it to the world.

    I have talked to people of many faiths. I have studied numerous religions. Everyone claims to have the best interest of humans in mind, though they seem to all condemn others of other beliefs. If you believe in something, why is it wrong for others to believe in something else. If I believe that a pizza is a good meal, but you believe that curry is actually a meal, aren't we able to live next to each other in peace eating our meals of choice? If you believe in Allah, but I believe in Buddha, can't we live in harmony. You might believe that when I die I will not be in the blessing of Allah and will therefore suffer internal punishment. But, what is that to you now, in the living. I am still a good neighbor. I would never hurt you or your family, and I welcome your friendship. So, am I bad in your eyes because of my personal beliefs or tastes? Certainly anyone can see my argument.
    If there are nonbelievers to your way of thinking or to your religious beliefs living near your, are they perhaps not good humans?

    Ultimately being human is what we are, no matter what our beliefs. Ultimately we all want the basic same things: to have a happy life and to be at peace when we die, because we all will die. We (humans) do not have to believe in the same things, nor should we (what a boring world that would be), and not one way of living is best for everyone, since we are all different in some way or another.

    We could all use our energies, skills, and wisdom to be remembered later in life for good to all. No one has to change their beliefs. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but truly, words on a page that are thousands of years old when comets and solar eclipses were something to fear and run from must be taken with a pinch of salt. There are good lessons, no doubt, but mixed in are messages of past wars and hatreds that have no place in the 21st century.

    • Indian

      Have you read Bhagvat Gita?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/aspacia aspacia

      Read the Qu'ran dufuss! No other religion calls for the massacre of infidels. Try for petitioning for equal rights in Saudi Arabia as a non-Muslim and see what happens.

      Dolt!

      Ah, refreshing how a glass of wine released the inner soul.

      A Deist, Feminist, Goy Zionist

  • Ken

    I find it fascinating that in the 21st century people are still referring to writings of long ago as arguments for one thing or another. In addition, those writings have gone through numerous transcriptions, each generation adding or subtracting as to their own needs. Who on Earth today can say that these writings (Koran, Bible, etc.) are of any value? How can you, as ignorant humans (myself included) decide what is right and what is wrong? Can't we all just live on this small planet in a way that makes us happy in the way that we see happiness? Why must someone come to my door asking me to join their church? If their faith in their belief is strong, then what does it matter what I believe? Take this thought and expand it to the world.

    • tanstaafl jw

      It's only a problem when one group of believers think that they are superior to all other people on the planet SIMPLY because of the faith they follow. Oh, and the religion they believe in permits them to kill unbeliever SIMPLY because they do not they do not believe that "There is only one God, his name is Allah and Mohammed is his prophet."

      See the problem?

    • Euskalherria

      The important thing to realize is that the Qu'ran and Hadiths are the only "holy" texts on earth that specifically call for believers to hate all non-believers and to call on non-believers to convert, to submit as subservient dhimmis and pay the jizya tax, or to fight and be killed.

      Islam is the only totalitarian religious system on earth today that commands all peoples to submit and which strives to supplant all secular governments with sharia law. It is the ultimate belief system for the tyrant and "control freak". Islam teaches its adherents to use any and all means to impose its hegemony on everyone, until all the world is for Allah.

      Read "Islam 101" by Gregory Davis (available on jihadwatch.org) to get a basic understanding of Islam and its teachings, and why it is so dangerous to freedom.

      Read Robert Spencer's books on Islam, and read Mark Steyn's "America Alone" to see how Islam is rapidly subduing Europe.

      You may pooh-pooh religion and religious texts, but Muslims take the Qu'ran and Hadiths seriously, with disastrous results to Infidels. We had all best wake up to the unique threat posed by Islam in this day and age…

    • mamapajamas

      Ken, re: "I find it fascinating that in the 21st century people are still referring to writings of long ago as arguments for one thing or another. In addition, those writings have gone through numerous transcriptions, each generation adding or subtracting as to their own needs. "

      The big hairy problem with this statement is that the Quran and Hadith are ONLY supposed to be written in Arabic so that the original text is NOT lost. Because it was copied supposedly faithfully from Arabic to another Arabic copy, supposedly word for word, the Quran is one of the most faithful to the original of all of the ancient books.

      The translations that are available are recent and were done at great personal risk. Supposedly, translating the Quran to another language is as dangerous as drawing a Motoon.

    • George

      Try take this thought and expand it to the world?? How about "expanding" to Muslims face to face? I wonder if you survive an hour in Saudi Arabia.

      And what is so horrendous about someone coming to your door asking to join their church rather than bomb you as Muslims do?

  • Ken

    Here is another thought: Why would any Supreme Power that created all (light, time, space, etc.) really care what a bunch of humans (us on Earth) thought? I am directing this at all beliefs. By making your Supreme Power in some way angry at humans for any reason degrades your Supreme Power to the level of humans. I would think, in my limited experience and knowledge, that any Supreme Power would have nothing but pity on us. Pity on us for hating other, for killing others, for choosing right and wrong when we are in all purposes the same. Why we are here on Earth is rather irrelevant. We are here, and that is all that counts. We are all different in some way, and that is also irrelevant. Our lives are very short, indeed. What comes next is anyone's guess, since no one truly has the answer to that. Think….Think….that is the greatest gift given to us all.

    • Victoria

      If what comes next is anyone's guess than why are we here? What a purposeless, dark & empty life that would be. If you had truly done some serious studying of some of these beliefs systems then you'd know that no other belief system but Islam teaches its followers to lie & cheat & steal, any means necessary for the cause of Islam, no other belief system teaches the annililation of others except Islam. No other religious system brainwashes its young to hate. Man is not naturally good, he is not born this way. Goodness is learned ! Left to our own devices without laws, we would naturally kill each other. It is our faith traditions that have made us civilized. But as today's world becomes more & more Godless, we become more greedy & more evil etc. If you believe in nothing then everything is permissible. This is why the world around you is falling apart! Do some more study, there is a True path.

    • Douglas

      Ken,

      You raise many good questions, and are to be commended for them. You are not the first to do so, nor will you be the last. Continue to seek the truth. There is much to be learned if you take the time to devote yourself to such studies.
      I have studied religions for more than 40 years. I am partial to the Judeo/Christian faith, as I have experienced a miraculous conversion by investing my faith in that scripture, and by studying its claims for many years since my conversion on April 19, 1971. I have not been disappointed with God's claims since.
      Christianity stands alone in the world of polytheistic and monotheistic faiths because of the claims of Yeshua (Jesus), and those that claimed to be eyewitnesses of his life, death and resurrection. No other faith makes such claims that God loved his entire creation with so much intensity that he foreknew what his creation would do, and planned a way of reconciliation through the death and resurrection of his only begotten son.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/WildJew WildJew

      You ask some profound questions. Some of these questions are dealt with (though perhaps not answered) in the book of Job. The book of Genesis establishes that man (and woman) were created in God's image. To me this means we have the ability to make judgments; to determine was is right and what is wrong. We have the ability to choose right and good and to reject wrong and evil. Often man chooses evil over good. I believe we have "rudimentary" emotions that do not reach, yet are an image of God's emotions. That is why the Bible portrays God expressing love, anger, jealousy, etc.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/WildJew WildJew

        Man is an impatient being. When we become angry, more often we strike out immediately in response. How can man understand an anger ("long-suffering") that takes decades, perhaps centuries to reach its expression? It took decades, even centuries of warnings from the prophets before God expelled the Jews from the land of Israel; before He destroyed Jerusalem. To your statement that "making your Supreme Power in some way angry at humans for any reason degrades your Supreme Power to the level of humans." I do not understand this statement. God's ways are not our ways. God's anger is not the anger of a mortal being. According to the Biblical view, God is concerned about His creation. Why wouldn't He be?

    • Indian

      Read Hindu Upanishads and Bhagvat Gita.. you will get answers to all your questions…
      btw, Supreme Power doesn't care what you feel, or do. It only says, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you sow a good seed, good tree will be born. Bad seed, and no tree. That is what Karma is all about. Supreme Power wants to write your own Karma. Read Vedanta books, they are the Ultimate Source for your search…

  • Democracy First

    One's faith can shape a person into someone different than others. Only Muslims, for reasons of faith, scream out for the deaths of others, even genocide. It is not coincidental that Islam has been on an imperialist march since the day of its birth, killing however many hundreds of millions to achieve its supremacism.

    Read the koran. It's shocking. Rationalize it, if you want to. But know that far too many Muslims will laugh at you for doing so; they know it means what it says, Mohammed, "the perfect man", having said and acted so.

  • wolf t.

    Muslims think they will accomplish what all others have tried to do and failed, namely, the eradication of the Jew. Instead the "others" have disappeared into the pages of history while the Jew, however numerically dimished, still exists, prospers and advances world civilization. It is entirely coincidental that the Jew is compared to the moon, which waxes and wanes, seems to disappear only to reappear in its full brightness while the arab muslims, who previously worshipped the moon god allah and the kaabah stone have transformed this allah to a universal god, a la' the Jewish God (pun intended).

  • guestspeaker

    Ken, Ken bo-ben, banana fanta foe-fem–KEN.
    Dude.

    "To know nothing of what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child."
    Cicero

  • guestspeaker

    Consider that this little Miss is probably home grown in the US and thinks that being 'Muslim' is 'really Cool' because 'they' certainly are getting a lot of attention these days. I wonder how this young one would feel if she lived in Mohammedville and was treated like a worthless dog (as women are in that place). Why, she wouldn't be going to school and she certainly wouldn't be able to speak her mind to a man like that.

    David Horowitz was more than a gentleman.
    "Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." author, the LORD

  • Ghostwriter

    Most Americans would find her comments shocking. I certainly do. And Muslims continue to wonder why they're often suspected when an act of terrorism happens? It's because of stuff like this.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/aspacia aspacia

      LOL, many Muslims actually believe as she does. Trust me, I have argued with a well-educated Muslim, and he is angry regarding how Zionist kill children.???? How about the fact Muslim target day care centers, nurseries and school busses? No response. He knew better than to debate me further.

      The problem is that too many do not know the FACTS regarding the situation.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/DP111 DP111

    guestspeaker wrote: Consider that this little Miss is probably home grown in the US and thinks that being 'Muslim' is 'really Cool' because 'they' certainly are getting a lot of attention these days. I wonder how this young one would feel if she lived in Mohammedville and was treated like a worthless dog (as women are in that place)

    You may be too generous to this little miss, for she knows full well what would happen to her if she criticised Hamas (put on the cross).

    What is really disconcerting, is that Muslims in the West now feel confident enough to openly state their genocidal intentions regarding Jews. No other person could get away with such outright genocidal statements without being prosecuted and persecuted. Yet Muslims are getting away with it, for they know that we have been dhimmified.

    Why do they think this?

    The answer is that Muslims expected that Islam would be wiped out after 9/11. I remember the panic that set in in the Muslim world as they waited for Armageddon to descend on them. But instead of that, our Western leaders rushed to the mosque and kissed the Koran.

    Now if I were a devout Muslim, I would see this outcome as a sign that allah had disarmed the Kuffar, so that the powerful Kuffar West could not use his armed might. Victory was therefore only a matter of time, as allah promised. It is this confidence that allah is on their side and has shown this clearly by disarming the Kuffar, that allows Muslims to openly state genocidal views in the West.

    The fact that they still get away with this, confirms their view.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Indioviejo Indioviejo

      DP111 I must admit that I expected a devastating attack on Mecca. Medina, Damascus, Cairo, Tehran, etc., after 9/11. That GWB failed, just as his father failed, Clinton failed, Reagan, Carter, and anybody else with the power to address the situation, just seems appalling . When or if this mortal threat is addressed, is any body's guess.

  • flyingtiger

    Christians have different feelings about Jews. Some do hate them, some like them, but most tolerate them. Islam is the only faith where you are required to kill jews as a religious duty. that is the true face of islam.

  • Disabled Veteran

    Many argue on the issue oof the Muslim threat. Viewing what happened at the university the answer is obvious. No more immigration of muslms to the USA. No more allowing Muslim students in the USA. A complete ban on all Muslim student organizations. Time for these vermin to be removed from our country. Islam is a terrorist regliion, formed in ignorance, believed by the extreme elements of society, dedicated to the extermination of civilization. Let them go back to their lands and rot in peace.

  • Iver

    I don't mean to get caught up in this talk because I do not know nearly as much as everyone here does about the issue. I am a 33 yr old Christian man and I am on this site because I had seen David Horowitz on Fox news debating with Mark Levine. The latter is clearly a hater but he's not the only one. It baffles me that more people don't support Israel. President Obama is certianly not pro-Israel by any means. He's terrified of the Muslims. Did you see the coward Eric Holder afraid to attribute the failed Time Square bomber with being motivated by exrtreme Islam? I don't understand why so many American Jews vote for these people. I think your case is so clear and I certainly support Israel and I am in disbelief that more people don't step up and support them. Well that's my two cents anyways…

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/AwakeinTexas AwakeinTexas

      Iver,
      It is good to wake up! Continue to read on this site, especially the quotes given from the work of David Horowitz. In fact, you should read some of his books. You can learn why the Jewish people usually vote liberal.
      BTW, referring to an earlier post, Jesus and Paul often used the term, "the Jews," to refer more specifically to the Sadducees of the day. They were the rulers of the temple who cultivated the Romans in order to remain in power. They saw themselves as the true believers who kept their country in existence.

    • charlie

      ZIONISM = NAZISM

      • davarino

        Ok dude, and 1+1=11. Your equation is so convincing.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lakewoodbob lakewoodbob

    Robert Spencer, Since Iver (above) referred to the confrontation David had with Mark Levine on Hannity ( and I hope no one confuses him with Mark Levin). I would like for both you and David to critique Levine's positions on the Middle East political situation.

    I believe Levine is an arrogant little twit, and I would like to see him exposed for all to see!

  • Iver

    I don't care about hurting feelings. I'm and American Gentile and I'm all for profiling these Muslims. The Israelis are the masters of profiling and that's why they haven't had a plane blown up in a long long time. Screw feelings when lives are at stake. I have a Palestinian girl that works for me and she is a sweet, nice, hard worker but every once in a while if a Jewish customer comes in you can tell her blood is boiling. The point I'm making is that she is a Christian Palestinian that was born here and I can see her hatred for Jews and I can't imagine how the ones that live in the middle east feel. It must be intensified by a thousand times. It's really makes me uncomfortable actually. I'd love to debate her but that will get me no where and I will lose a good emplyee. It's bred so deep in them they can't change it most of them. I guess I'm just venting…I really feel for the Jews. I really go. I have taken a much greater interest in it since I seen David vs. Levine. That guy was no match for Horowitz. It was a total joke and he made a fool of himself to any rational person.

    • Democracy First

      It's one of the great mysteries why Palestinian Christians so often hate Israel and Jews. It is the Muslims who have committed untold violence against them, forcing a Christian exodus. In some cases they seek refuge in…Israel, where they becopme enfranchised citizens with the rights of all citizens of western democracies.

      Perhaps it's something of a Stockholm syndrome.

      • FrumiousFalafel

        I think you're right about the Stockholm Syndrome. However while they are still "there" (in the West Bank, for example) the reasons are far clearer. The Palestinian Christians (the few that are now left!) have a gun pointed at their heads. On a daily basis their churches are firebombed, their daughters are RAPED (yes, this is true), they are physically threatened and sometimes beaten, and many other means are used to force them out of their ancestral homes by Muslim Palestinians.

        Perhaps the Palestinian Christians are angry that Israel hasn't done more to help them… I don't know — but Israel has PLENTY on her hands as it is — and also, if the Palestinians Christians were to simply raise their voices (once they *were* free, that is, "in the Diaspora") — they would have an incredibly sympathetic ear from their Christian brothers! But as you say, *most* (but not all) of them simply continue to echo the anti-Israeli propaganda that they were forced to say when they lived next to their Muslim neighbors.

        Interestingly, I, as a Jew, became (for some reason, I don't know) very involved with this cause when I first saw it happening in a big way about 5+ years ago. I would send out email after email to huge numbers of my Christian friends telling… warning them that places which they have cherished for centuries (Bethlehem for example) were being systematically depleted of the Christians who had lived there for centuries. I always included articles by some brave Palestinian Christian who explained in detail how this was happening. How Christians were being truly "ethnically cleansed" from their holy places of worship by Muslims. But my emails seemed to fall on deaf ears. I'm not sure why — perhaps it has more to do with my being long-winded!

        In any case, the expulsion of Palestinian Christians is now in a death spiral. It will be a done deal within another generation.

  • Sarah

    Iver

    Just watch al jazeera news sender and you will understand why all Arabs are against fundamental zionism. Fundamentalist Jews dont want to share Jerusalem with Palestinian muslims and christians! So now they are moving those Palestinians to other places (which results in homelessness) in order to annexate every part of Jerusalem. Jewish kolonists kill Palestinians children (yesterday a 14-year old boy) BUT AMERICAN NEWSCHANNELS DONT SHOW THAT! In the USA you are deceived by your media and that is very sad!

    Rob

    You are brainwashed by the media! In every place you will find violation of human rights and women rights! That doesnt have to do with the culture or religion! Then if islam or Arab culture teaches to abuse women, explain this fact about your country: THE USA

    Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner.3 According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year.4 Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.5

    Wooow! Gosh! So many American women are abused!

    • Freedom4all

      Do you know how many cases of abuse goes unreported in the Islamic countries? In the US, women get abused, they have the option of reporting it but in the Middle East, what rights do women have? And that is, if they are not dead by then.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lakewoodbob lakewoodbob

      In discussing the ‘Hiddenness of God’, Blaise Pascal wrote in the 17th century that “We can understand nothing of God’s works unless we accept the principle that He wished to blind some and enlighten others.” (Pensees 232)

      I'm sorry, Sarah, but you didn't make the cut!

    • Rob

      Sarah, yes many American women are~ abused, and most of it goes unreported.

      And you probably don't trust that life is better over here, but I wouldn't want to live in any other country. I would be afraid to live in the Middle East, and I would be afraid for my children. Just like I am afraid for you.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/AwakeinTexas AwakeinTexas

        Please do not equate our society with the sharia "civilization" they would impose on us!
        When abuse surfaces, it is universally condemned in our civilized society. When a wife is beaten there, it is assumed she "deserved it," and has no recourse to law, or even her own family. Do you think there are any women's shelters there?

  • Disabled Veteran

    In Iran women will now get arrested for having a suntan. Believe this declaration is by the same nut that now comments about earthquakes. Point is, if disaster is the fault of women, there is no need to debate abuse of women between muslim and western countries. Muslims have the record when it comes to viewing women as pets, or something which is owned such as a car. When women have not rights in muslim countries, there surely is more abuse, simply because of this fact.

  • buddy winston

    nuke the arab muzzie countries now.
    deport the sand monkeys from Western countries now.
    bomb all the madrasses and the Al Arabiyas and Al Manars.

    The world would be a beautiful place if it weren't for Islam, which is Satan, and Allah, who is a weasel, and Mohammed, who is sewage. I'm sure glad I live in Santa Barbara.

  • Rachelle

    When discussing this event on Hannity, David Horowitz mentioned that the University of Southern California permitted an MSU site calling for the killing of Jews because it was their religious right. Murdering Jews is in the Koran.

    I am wondering if the same university stooges would allow an MSU web page calling for the execution of homosexuals?

    Homosexuality must be a sin in Islam; Iran executes them all the time.

    Or do you suppose, that the university would draw the line at that?

    Killing Jews okay; killing homosexuals bad.

    I think that is how it would play out with these disgusting 'academics'.

  • http://www.leadel.net Alex

    Mr. Spencer, can you please apply your fine-toothed comb to our Book of Joshua?
    You know, where it says that we were commanded by God to slaughter men, women and children, to liberate Canaan from the polytheistic tribes after our Exodus. It happened a few thousand years ago (as opposed to a mere 1400 years or so, as in the "Mohammedan" faith), so it doesn't matter now and is not relevant to anything.

    -Alex http://www.leadel.net
    Kfar Saba, Israel

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/AwakeinTexas AwakeinTexas

    Alex,
    The Jewish scriptures report the commands of God to his people in that time, and their response in obedience or rebellion. When they obeyed, they prospered, and when they failed, first God showed mercy, then there was consequence. The story is long, and there was war with stronger tribes who would have annihilated this homeless band. Their triumph when they obeyed spoke of their God's might, as a witness to war-like people. Many chose to believe in this powerful new monotheism, and give up their child sacrifice and other "civilized" practices which God of these people found abominable.

    But the commands are clearly for those people in that time. The Koran, in contrast, frames the commands to kill others as a continuing requirement, as long as they fail to come to "true belief." Conversion at the point of the spear, or gun, does not allow for man's free will. The Jewish/Christian God is dangerous, because he allows freedom of conscience, from which liberty has come. Remove knowledge of God and his requirements, and liberty becomes license.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/AwakeinTexas AwakeinTexas

    In Leviticus, the people were also commanded to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus expanded that to say we should love our enemies. As individuals, not as governments! He also said that the whole law could be summed up into Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

    How humans live in this world together always creates paradox. When we insist that society (government) must be made moral, so that everyone must be "equal," such power means that individuals are crushed. The freedom that God gives to us creates a responsibility to make moral judgments for ourselves as we go through life. These are individual rights and responsibilities, for we are answerable to God for our own actions. We can never say that the government bears these responsibilities, they belong to each one of us.

  • logdon

    UCSD Muslim Student Responds to David Horowitz Event
    Posted on May 16, 2010 by fortruthforloveforjustice

    To the General and Campus Communities:

    As you are all well aware, I am the one who spoke at the David Horowitz event this past Monday May 10, 2010.

    Allow me to begin by stating that I do NOT condone murder, I do NOT condone genocide, and I do NOT condone racism under any circumstance whatsoever against Jews or anyone else. These accusations are lies that I refuse to allow David Horowitz and his allies to perpetuate in their irresponsible and hateful smear campaign against those who disagree with or differ from them.

    On April 19, 2010 I volunteered to speak at the Racism/Genocide Holocaust Event last April only because of my strong convictions against genocide like the Holocaust. I was there every step of the way during the protests denouncing racism on campus last quarter—from the very beginning to the very end. Never have I uttered a negative syllable towards or about any person because of their ethnicity or religion on campus or otherwise, Jewish or otherwise. Regardless of my participation in these events, for Mr. Horowitz to insinuate that I am anti-Semitic is ridiculous; I am a Semite.

    I attended the event as an individual, not as a representative of any organization, least of all the MSA. My presence was solidly founded in my academic and personal quests to hear diverse viewpoints. Unfortunately, Mr. Horowitz is a seasoned polemicist whose intent is not to encourage academic discussion by expounding his arguments or even supporting his positions with hard facts, but to excite the passions of an audience. Mr. Horowitz spent an hour indiscriminately attacking liberals, students, Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians, utilizing verbiage that completely departed from an academic tone and delved into hate speech—especially labeling groups and individuals that support Palestinian rights “terrorists.”

    Insofar as my references to Hitler and the Nazi Youth programs: it was Mr. Horowitz who spent a substantial amount of time referring to the MSA as the “Hitler Youth” and its Justice in Palestine Week as “Hitler Youth Week”— pejorative titles that as a human being, a student of history, and a person of faith, I find disgusting. I uttered them in a sarcastic manner only to point out the ridiculous and slanderous nature of Mr. Horowitz’s labels—Nazis sought the extermination of anyone who was not “white,” and this racial category excludes the vast majority of the Muslim population.

    read it all onhttp://fortruthforjustice.wordpress.com/

  • Cut

    You misrepresent this student, in an unethical and immoral attempt to do just what it is you're accusing her of doing. Not that you'll be convinced, but why don't you see what she has to say?
    Her statement: http://fortruthforjustice.wordpress.com/

  • Cut

    and that "Death to Israel" claim is a lie. A plain, simple lie.

  • Mary Lou Malay

    I was appalled at the young womans comment. Do we really want such hate filled people in our country? I guess I never realized what evil there could be disguised as a lady so modest as to cover her head,but willing to reveal her hard hate filled heart. How very disturbing and no one called her out on this. What does that say for the rest of the audience.

  • http://www.mysimpleaccounting.com Inessa Khaykin

    I believe catholic and Islam religion are the same by praising to our almighty father but they are different in words to use or to speak….

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  • femalegentile

    No one Twirls Chickens.. Like a Jew that's for sure ..
    Masters of distortion and lies you people are.. and NO I'm not a Muslim – I'm a Prostestant

  • Paul Johnson

    “Hitler Youth” and its Justice in Palestine Week as “Hitler Youth Week”— pejorative titles that as a human being, a student of history, and a person of faith, I find disgusting. I uttered them in a sarcastic manner only to point out the ridiculous and slanderous nature of Mr. Horowitz’s labels—Nazis sought the extermination of anyone who was not “white,” and this racial category excludes the vast majority of the Muslim population.

    I recomend you go back and study your history …….The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited for the Nazis and formed units in WW2 with the purpose of aiding the Nazis to extermnate the Jews.Of course the Japanese were allied with the Nazi's as was much of the Arab world so the white thing does not work.

  • Londoner

    What an irony form "so called" civilised people, you condamning the muslims for "a statment" about an action that hasn't happened yet, and might never happen and you don't speak about the "actual" genocide that Israel is doing in Gaza and Palestine!!!! you have watched "minority report " or what?

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    Muslims have no idea millions of babies were killed by their mothers through legal procedures. Wow!!!

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    Yes, Christians have different views about Jews. Some like and hate them others doesn't care at all. But most importantly people should not discriminate others base on religions.

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    I have a friend in Israel and she told me that the place is great and also the people.

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