Arizona Gets Tough


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Racist! Nativist! Profiler! Xenophobe!

Write or say anything about illegal immigration, and one should expect to be called all of that and more—even if a strong supporter of legal immigration. Illegal alien becomes undocumented worker. Anti-immigrant replaces anti-illegal-immigration. “Comprehensive” is a euphemism for amnesty. Triangulation abounds. A fiery op-ed grandstands and deplores the Arizona law, but offers no guidance about illegal immigration — and blames the employer for doing something that the ethnic lobby in fact welcomes.

Nevertheless, here it goes from a supporter of legal immigration: how are we to make sense of the current Arizona debate? One should show concern about some elements of the law, but only in the context of the desperation of the citizens of Arizona. And one should show some skepticism concerning mounting liberal anguish, so often expressed by those whose daily lives are completely unaffected by the revolutionary demographic, cultural, and legal transformations occurring in the American Southwest.

As I understand the opposition to the recent Arizona law, it boils down to something like the following: the federal government’s past decision not to enforce its own law should always trump the state’s right to honor it. That raises interesting questions: Does the state contravene federal authority by exercising it? If the federal government does not protect the borders of a state, does the state have a right to do it itself? The federal government has seemed in the past to be saying that if one circumvented a federal law, and was known to have circumvented federal law with recognized impunity, then there was no longer a law to be enforced.

A Losing Political Issue

The politics of illegal immigration are a losing proposition for liberals (one can see that in the resort to euphemism), even if they don’t quite see it that way. Here are ten considerations why.

Law?—What Law?

First, there is the simplicity of the argument. One either wishes or does not wish existing law to be enforced. If the answer is no, and citizens can pick and chose which laws they would like to obey, in theory why should we have to pay taxes or respect the speed limit? Note that liberal Democrats do not suggest that we overturn immigration law and de jure open the border — only that we continue to do that de facto. Confusion between legal and illegal immigration is essential for the open borders argument, since  a proper distinction between the two makes the present policy  indefensible—especially since it discriminates against those waiting in line to come to America legally (e.g., somehow our attention is turned to the illegal alien’s plight and not the burdensome paperwork and government obstacles that the dutiful legal immigrant must face).

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  • solemnman

    Arizona should have waited till after the november elections.Now-the latino community will pour out in droves to vote for democrats.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/GaryRumain Gary Rumain

    Except for Cuban Americans, based on another article here.

  • poptoy

    All of the Border States should enact the same legislation. But they will not. Pray for a big win come November. The Dems have to loose one of the 2 Houses. Pray and Pray hard.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/temarch temarch

    "and blames the employer for doing something that the ethnic lobby in fact welcomes."

    That is a great point. In fact, it points out the need for a one-liner, sound bite size statement that all conservatives should throw out there constantly every chance they get to put this out in front of the public: "Do you mean the employers should reject illegal immigrants, but we should want them?"

  • davarino

    I disagree with your statement. I believe this will help to solidify this issue in the citizens mind and will encourage them to vote for candidates that support securing our borders. I also do not believe the latino community supports illegal immigration. I think they understand all to well that illegal immigration takes jobs away from them as well as from anyone else. They also have to understand that the illegal immigrant is a heavy burden on the rest of society in the form of unpaid for hospital, education, …..etc.

  • davarino

    Texas is working on it : )

  • http://piaagano.blogspot.com piaagano

    A gradualist approach would be WELCOMED by many employers and employees who are currently "trapped" in this country–the employees trapped by the easy accessibility of the 90s' borders, by their more-than-5-years employment at a job with health care and other benefits, including sufficient wages to avoid any illicit use of the social services system; the employers trapped by the fear of E-Verifying the status of anyone they thought they legally hired in the late 90s or early 2000's–the fear is that one would cause the deportation of a valuable loyal worker and responsible head of a household, and that that deportee would be irreplaceable once the economy returns to 5% unemployment. The reason there are so many illegal aliens here–working–is due either to insufficient native births 30 years ago (Roe v. Wade?) or to the 5% or less unemployed pool not wanting to work for more than a few weeks at a stretch. Unless you have run a small-to-medium-sized business for a decade or more, as most conservative commentators on this subject seem NOT to have done, you are likely unaware of these facts, and most businessmen are too terrified to expose them.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/horizon3 horizon3

    About 80% of the "Legal" Hispanic population of AZ Support this law, they waited in line, attended the citizenship classes and paid their fees, they are pretty upset that the Feds aren't doing their Constitutionally mandated duty. And from my experience these "Legal" Hispanics are primarily conservative in nature.
    One of the most irrefutable arguments to the premise of "Hispanics pouring out to vote Democrat" is that a very huge percent of them that can legally vote have voiced support of this law and consequently Gov. Brewers poll ratings have taken a considerable jump.

  • USMCSniper

    Best of all solutions for the ilegal alien problem. It's a win-win situation.

    Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border.

    Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levies.

    Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.

  • Jim C.

    Could be a new shipping lane!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

      Exactly! One we don't have to give back to anyone, like the Panama Canal.

      I wonder if it's possible …

  • neil

    Arizona. The new Nazi Germany. Let the "Kristallnacht" begin.

    • davarino

      You disgrace yourself by equating Arizona with nazi germany. You are obviously a young person that doesnt even know you history. Kristallnacht…….can you tell me what happened and can you tell me how that even is close to…………your an idiot.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

      You mean that those who want to stop the flood of illegals across the border are going to attack Jews and break the windows of Jewish synagogues and stores? The the governor, concerned about the cost of all the destruction, is going to assess the cost to the Jews, because they "started it" by being in Arizona?

      Have you ever read an account of Kristallnacht?

      By the way, when I bought a pistol, the other day, I had to show the gun shop operator my Driver's License and Firearm Owner's Identification Card. He MUST have been a Nazi …

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stephen_Brady Stephen_Brady

      You mean that those who want to stop the flood of illegals across the border are going to attack Jews and break the windows of Jewish synagogues and stores? The the governor, concerned about the cost of all the destruction, is going to assess the cost to the Jews, because they "started it" by being in Arizona?

      Have you ever read an account of Kristallnacht?

      By the way, when I bought a pistol, the other day, I had to show the gun shop operator my Driver's License and Firearm Owner's Identification Card. He MUST have been a Nazi …

  • davarino

    I for one hope the illegals march and protest on May day, in a big way. This will be their biggest mistake, because it will only show their arogance and make the citizens that much more upset about this issue.

    Good luck with your protest.

    In a country you entered illegally.

    That has given you so many freebees for so long.

    • Fiddler

      IRONIC, isn't it!

  • solemnman

    I was reffering to those Latinos to whom Obama made his latest appeal-the Latinos who turned out to vote for him -the Latinos who might have given the mid-term election a miss-the Latinos who might now be incensed enough to turn out in droves .Illegals must be stopped for many reasons among which- putting a stop to the Democrat"s quest for a permanent majority through the legitimization of illegals is one. A republican victory is now crucial in the country"s.interests. What Arizona did should have waited till after November.

    • Fiddler

      Perhaps "Cool-Aide" has an addicting quality. Obama has them under his spell. Don't worry about them, they're incurrable. We need to pray that many who bought the LIE will realize they have been "had" and realize that voting Democrat defacto is a poison pill they dare not take again.

  • Mark

    The law not only looks the other way on entering the country illegally, but on identity theft and fraud when they are caught with fake IDs. Why are they not charged with thses crimes rather than just being deported? The only way to get rid of the problem is to come down on the employers with stiff fines

  • Jackson

    You are right!!!

    I remember flying abroad and some nazi in the airport asked me for my passport. how dare he, that Hitler ask me for papers?
    and last week I was asked for my driver's licence by a policeman! what an Eichmann!! WE LIVE IN A NAZI STATE!!

    And when I went to college the woman asked for my transcripts!! I spat in Eva Brown's face and told her that this is not Auschwitz!

    but I guess that you and I are the the only sane people here – this nest of fascists and Nazis!

    right on, mister rationality!!. right on!!

  • trickyblain

    "About 80% of the "Legal" Hispanic population of AZ Support this law"

    According to???

    • Democracy First

      Your doubt is well founded. According to a new poll her support amongst Hispanics is dropping.

    • coyote3

      A lot of the "legal" Hispanic population are the descendents of people who have been "here" since it become the United States. Indeed, many of us were here, and U.S. citizens, before the ancestors of the majority of the people in the U.S. today.

  • Jim C.

    "Secure the borders." OK, throw some pebbles in to dam the river. There is only so much we can logistically do. And the Border Patrol is pretty good at its job.

    Hanson greasily glosses over the issue of incentive and shows he is tone deaf to the illegal Mexican worker. Vic, baby–they wave the Mexican flag because they'd rather be in Mexico–their home. It's just that Mexico is one big corrupt mess. But the big issue Hanson practically dismisses: employment. I have yet to hear a politician seriously talk about enforcing the law vis a vis employers. But until you do–then you are not at all serious about the problem.

    Concentrate enforcement on business; fine businesses the cost of deportation ($20,000 each?). Problem solved within a year. If asking Americans to follow their laws is too "draconian" then you'd better come up with an amnesty alternative. Obama is wrong to chastise Arizona but politically it's extremely saavy, and Republicans once again are playing right into his hands.

    • coyote3

      Yeah, we did a pretty good job, back years ago. We are not doing so well now, but that is because of the way we were organized. We were not ever meant to seal the border or prevent illegal immigration on this scale, plus deal with the traficantes and other smugglers. "Line watch" concerned these issues, as much, if not more than mojadoes, with the traficantes and smugglers getting priority.

  • Mary

    The fervor over the issue of illegal immigration by Democrat's clearly belies a deliberate and intensely focused attempt to gain the Hispanic vote. Democrats are no more concerned about the plight of illegal aliens than they are about addressing fraud in Medicare. It's entirely politically motived. Once again, liberal rhetoric attempts to blur the lines, the issues and the facts with the use of emotionally charged words like "racist", in order to obscure the argument and manipulate a response certain to prevent one from voicing opposition. There is little doubt in my mind that Democrats are banking on the notion that the vast majority of illegal aliens will vote Democratic, and to insure this vote, the promise of entitlements and benefits will be secured. But, that is the Democratic mind set…'who cares what it costs? We aren't paying the tab, the American taxpaper is.'

    • Fiddler

      Ever notice what liberals do when they are bested in an argument or they a starting to lose? Instead of embracing vigorous debate the yell:

      You're a racist
      Stop the hate, stop the hate, stop the hate (LOUDER and LOUDER)

      In other words shout down and stifle debate. That's where the anarchy lies and the Alinsky methods are exhibited. They simply cannot lose so they stop discussion and use invective. They are children or adolescents. They are impressionable that Obama and the liberals use higher education to turn out. They are the future William Ayers of today. Only going to the school of hard knocks and gaining some perspective do they "grow up" to adult thinking. Liberalism is irrational and illogical, always with a chip on it's shoulder. It is reactionary. Again, it is little children kicking and screaming in a store when they don't get their way. College campuses are the hot bed of reactionary group-think, and the cesspool of indimitation if you aren't "cool" like us if you disagree.

  • Nani Moon

    I think the ENTIRE USA needs to do what Arizona is doing….. that is the only way we are going to get rid of all the illegals in this country! I, for one, am pissed off that illegals get to draw Social Security when they've never paid a dime in to it – also, they can receive all welfare, medicaid/medicare, food stamps, etc… benefits, too! They also seem to have more RIGHTS than born and bred Americans have, too.

    ANY person that wants to be a part of this country should HAVE to go through the proper procedures and become legal immigrants before they can receive any benefits whatsoever.

    So I, for one, APPLAUD what Arizona is doing, and I think it sucks what California and several other states are doing by shunning and banning Arizona….. California is in such a mess and is broke because of all the illegals, and they are taking over this country and bleeding us dry…..

    GOD BLESS US ALL and God Bless the USA and have mercy on us Jesus…..

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/trailmaster AG

    California, a state that's a major victim of illegals, is pushing to boycott Arizona. They may in fact harm the Arizona economy. But in 5 years it will backfire!

    Arizona will, by then, have become a destination from Californians needing to escape their crime-infested cities, with low-riders full of kids cruising down Main St. A destination for parents seeing their kids overtaken by easy drug suppliers. A destination for those who spent 4 hours in a hospital waiting room to be seen because of all the Latino patients there before them, many of whom cannot communicate their problems to the nurses, all the while thinking about their taxes; a destination for business owners who can't access the court system due to overclogging of drug, misdemeanor, and eviction cases; a destination for residents tired of having to "press 2" for English whenever they need to contact the local government office about something.

    An economic boycott, i.e. "war" against its neighbor will be both an invitation to law-abiding citizens to move there, while becoming a new, more tolerant, destination for illegals – a potential tipping point with no return.

  • skezix

    The economic ripple effect should tend to increase the number of states who pass legislation prohibiting illegal immigrants. Those illegals leaving Arizona but not returning to Mexico will go to some other state – say Utah. As the illegal population rises in Utah, it creates a greater, more visible impact. Utah reacts by passing legislation that, like Arizona, discourages the presence of illegal immigrants. Over time, this ripple effect becomes more like a tidal wave as more illegals crowd into fewer states. This is why the Arizona law is some valuable – it begins a virtuous circle, where good results breed more good results. I do agree that the only scalable approach is not chasing illegals but rather auditing the people and business who hire them. As it becomes increasingly difficult for illegals to obtain work, we shall have less of them. Mind, this will not necessarily see an increase in jobs for Americans. As the number of illegals declines, the resultant labor supply decline will drive up the price for labor. This will incent employers to hire less labor, and possibly also substitute various forms of capital for labor. – machines, computers, and so on. Unfortunately, most of these are not made in the USA. So, the major beneficiary to a reduced illegal labor supply might turn out to be China.

  • http://go.to/megamerge Historyscoper

    Sorry, but even if Arizona's law is 100% effective, all it will do is lock illegals up at taxpayer expense, after which they will have to hand them over to the feds, and then what? Mexico and its people aren't going away, they're here to stay and we have to share the New World with them. Instead of obsessing over the little mice, the U.S. needs to notice the elephant in the room, the incurably corrupt Mexican govt., and unite behind my Megamerge Dissolution Solution of working with the Mexican people to dissolve it and join the U.S. as 10+ new states, completely transforming the problem into a winning path. Study the MMDS and tell your reps to so they quit wasting time on non-solutions: http://go.to/megamerge

  • Kevin

    I have never heard of such an idea but I wanted to throw it out there.

    I am encouraged by some good states, (Governors, legislatures and AGs) that are finally striking back at the federal government with regards to Obamacare and immigration. I think these state governments can copy one of the left's favorite activities—Legislative hearings.

    Why not issue a few subpoenas to corruptocrats such as Barney Frank, Chris Dodd et al for hearings on the Community Reinvestment Act and the bureaucrats who extorted banks to grant bad mortgages. I agree with Rush when he said harsh circumstances would befall the lenders who did not comply.

  • Peachey

    My sister lives outside of Tuscan and stated that all of the Latinos that she has met at church and work do support this bill. The crime rate has skyrocketed and all of the Az citizens are angry that their state has become a bankrupt entry port for the drug and crime cartels. They are being advised to place refrigerators stocked with food outside to limit breakins and violence.The gun sales has soared and people have legitimate fears. I will put it to you another way. Do you support human trafficing and slave labor? Do you support the 27,000 murders last year on the Mexico-U.S. border? I believe that very few understand the true level of violence and crime that happens in the border states as it is not PC to report it.Laws are laws and should be obeyed by all.

  • Peachey

    Oh those crazy Nazi's that dare to uphold a law. How dare they interfere with my human right to do as I please without regard to the health, welfare and safety of others. For all of you out there, I am exempt from all rules and laws. I refuse to follow any as it would interfere with the definition of "human rights" in my dictionary.Ah, what can I say Jackson, my heritage is Scot and German, and you know how they are about keeping laws to the letter. I guess I was just raised to follow laws that benefit all, not just one or a few. I did however feel that your post was humorous and spot on and I expanded on it.

  • Peachey

    We all know now who supports the illegal trade of human trafficing, human slavery, drug
    trade, kidnapping and murder. Thank all the Progressives for validating my conclusions of their political goals. Human enslavement.

  • davarino

    What ever, are you coherant?

  • coyote3

    Should have read "many of them were here…."

  • badaboo

    Who are you kidding peachey ? What the hell did THREE Republican /Conservative Administrations do about this problem ?
    The tunnel-vision I see here is simply stupifying . Doesn't anyone THINK before they speak ?
    Truth is NONE of the politicos on either side of the isle are willing to alienate the hispanic vote , and you just watch and see how many of your so called conservatives are going to back the Arizona Law .
    HYPOCRITES ALL !!!

    • Democracy First

      True. But it's a Republican governor trying to get the situation under control in her state, and it's the left wing media with subtle support from a Democrat president opposing her with the usual left wing relexive cry of "racism!"

  • badaboo

    Talk is cheap and B.S. goes to the cleaners

  • badaboo

    A $50,000 dollar fine for every bisiness for every employee found to be undocumentede or here illegally ! WHO'S GOT THE BALLS TO SAY IT ??

    WHO'S GOT THE BALLS TO DO IT !??>

    Everything else is just blather and B.S.,