Israel and Iran’s Nuclear Reactors


Pages: 1 2

Iran’s recent attempt to ship arms to Hamas in Gaza is an act of war committed by the Iranian government against the Israeli government.  The Israeli Navy seized the ship, loaded with weapons designed to kill Israeli civilians, and traced the weapons back to Iran.  Nor is this the first act of war that would justify a military response by Israel under international law.  Iran has sent other boatloads of anti personnel weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah.  In addition, back in 1992, the Iranian leaders planned and authorized a deadly attack on Israel’s embassy in Argentina.  That bombing, which was carried out by Iranian agents, constituted a direct armed attack on the state of Israel, since its embassy is part of its sovereign territory.  Moreover, the Iranian government has publicly declared war on Israel by calling for it “to be wiped off the map.”

Under international law, these acts of war—known as Casus Belli—fully justify an Israeli armed response.  Even the UN Charter authorizes a unilateral response to an armed attack.  Providing weapons to a declared enemy in the face of an embargo has historically been deemed an armed attack under the law of war, especially when those providing the weapons intend for them to be used against the enemy’s civilians.  So too is the bombing of an embassy.

Two other recent events enhance Israel’s right use military means to prevent Iran from continuing to arm Israel’s enemies.  The recent disaster in Japan has shown the world the extraordinary dangers posed by nuclear radiation.  If anybody ever doubted the power of a dirty bomb to devastate a nation, both physically and psychologically, those doubts have been eliminated by what is now going on in Japan.  If Iran were to develop nuclear weapons, the next ship destined to Gaza might contain a nuclear dirty bomb and Israel might not intercept that one.  A dirty bomb detonated in tiny Israel would cause incalculable damage to civilian life.

Moreover, the recent killings in Itamar of a family including three children, demonstrate how weapons are used by Israel’s enemies against civilians in violation of the laws of war.  Even babies are targeted by those armed by Iran.  Hamas praised the murders.

Pages: 1 2

  • muchiboy

    What's good for the goose.And I'm not talking about cooking.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      Israel has never tested, used or threatened the use of nuclear weapons. In fact, Israel has called for the creation of a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East and has stated multiple times that it will never use a nuclear weapon first.

      Iran on the other hand, has waged war and made territorial claims to its neighbors including Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Iran has boasted that it will exterminate the state of Israel.

      If you can't see the difference something is seriously wrong with you.

  • muchiboy

    "..events enhance Israel’s right use military means to prevent Iran from continuing to arm Israel’s enemies."

    But the Palestinian people couldn't then(1948) use military means to prevent the Zionists from occupying Palestine.And the Palestinian people can't now use armed means to prevent ongoing ethnic cleansing from their homeland.Some day,the worm will turn.Someday,the pigeons will come home to roost.muchiboy

    • wind77

      The Arab armies invaded Israel in order to ethnically cleans the Jews from Israel in 1948 and failed. There never was a Palestinian people until Arafat invented it in the 1960s. Jews had always lived in Palestine during the 2000 years of dispersal. However, the land was owned by the Turkish Ottoman empire and never any imagined Palestinian people. By the late 1800s the Jews were a majority in Jerusalem. So don't send me any pigeons because they never had Israel as a home!!

    • New Yorker

      Palestinian people were synonimous with jewish people. Leave your garbage outside of my front door Muchiboy. And keep your sick pigeons too.

      • Chezwick_Mac

        "ethnic cleansing"…? The only ethnic cleansing that has occurred in the last 50 years was Israel's removal of all Jews from Gaza in 2005.

    • MixMChess

      The Palestinians had the Military might and power of over 8 Arab countries (originally funded by the Nazis and subsequently the Soviet Union) and countless "fedayeen" fighting against Israel in 1948.

      Palestinians continue the tradition of warfare by using armed means every day to attack Israel. From 2001 – 2009, Hamas fired over 8,600 rockets at Israel killing over 20 civilians and injuring thousands more.

      Do even know the most basic of historical facts? Seriously try reading a book before commenting.

  • http://www.boycottscotland.com Eddie

    SMASH the islamofascist regime of iran and the Arab president of the islamofascist regime of iran.

    LONG LIVE PERSIA!

  • muchiboy

    "So don't send me any pigeons because they never had Israel as a home!! "

    I believe you,wind77,(I'm curious about those other 76 winds'),given that pigeons belong to the dove family.No self respecting Dove would call hawkish Israel home.When doves cry (in Palestine),you need take notice.Shame on you.muchiboy

    p.s.-30p Watch your points! Watch your mouth!!

    • New Yorker

      How romantic! How fairytailish!

    • Spirit_Of_1683

      And no self-respecting dove would call Naziboy anything other than what he is – a prejudiced, maniacal and genocidal Jew-hating weirdo.

    • davarino

      So when the surrounding Arab nations pick a fight with Isreal again and get their arses kicked, will they go crying to the UN again? Will they go crying to the UN demanding that Isreal give back land it won in the war they started?

    • CharleneRae

      barbarian

  • Chezwick_Mac

    One of the main arguments against an Israeli strike was that doing so might create instability that could topple friendly regimes in the region. Considering the events of the last three months, I'd say that's no longer a credible rational for inaction.

    What most don't understand is that the REAL value of attacking Iran's nuclear sites is that it would – for awhile at least – put the proliferation genie back in the bottle. Other regimes with nuclear aspirations would most likely put their programs on hold.

    As it is, due to our prolonged equivocation, everybody and their mother now aspire to have nuclear weapons. I see a day in the not too distant future when not just the Saudis and Egyptians, but even minor countries like Qatar and the UAE and non-state actors like Hezbollah and Al Qaeda…have the bomb.

    God help planet earth.

  • sydchaden

    The critics of Israel rationalize, ridicule, or ignore the threats of countries like Iran to drive Israel into the sea. If your life was being threatened, your preoccupation would be with your efforts to survive. Your concern for criticisms that your effort to survive is “unbalanced”, or “disproportionate”, would be secondary to your concern that your effort is successful. Israel’s critics know that. They are really criticizing Israel’s existence.

  • muchiboy

    "How romantic! How fairytailish! "

    Doves cry all the time,New Yorker.They cried in the death camps and we didn't hear them.They cried in Rwanda and we didn't hear them.I guess today we finally heard the doves crying in Libya.Still,no one hears the doves crying in Palestine.muchiboy

    • Vermont Yid

      I hate to burst your bubble munchiboy, but there is no such country/nation as "Palestine" and there never has been. Hence, there is no such thing as a "palestinian." What you are referring to is the unwanted dregs of the "arab world." In simpler terms, the "palestinians" are just the slime at the bottom of a bucket of excrement. That bucket of excrement is, of course, the arabs.

  • muchiboy

    "That bucket of excrement is, of course, the arabs. "

    You should be banned from FPM for your above public expression of hatred of an entire people.Or perhaps in your country it is acceptable to say the same about any race of people,including Jews?muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      You're one to talk? You routinely make blatantly antisemetic remarks (Jewish control, Jewish money… etc) that are aimed at Jews worldwide and not just Israel.

  • muchiboy

    "You're one to talk?"

    MixMChess,are you able to distinguish between scratching your ass and tearing it?I didn't think so.muchiboy

  • muchiboy

    "Do even know the most basic of historical facts?"

    Do you even know how to read between the lines,MixMChess?I didn't think so.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      You just proved my point. Thank you.

  • Rifleman

    Iran has been waging war against the US and Israel since the 70's, that gives both of us every right.

  • Brian

    The concept of "international law" has become a sham and a farce. If Israel, for instance, issues a permit to build some apartments within its territory, the UN and our own Obama has no problem turning it into a major international event. Compare that over-reaction to that petty event with their slack reaction, if any, to civil conflicts in other M.E. countries where slaughters occurs daily. Look at Yemen today, and try to find any comments from the UN or Obama.

    As a full proxy of Iran, Hezbollah should be declared an illegitimate governing entity. As a terrorist organization, like Hamas, the UN, EU, and US should censure them consistently. But they do the exact opposite, and only censure their consistent target, Israel. The UN has never acted to prevent Hezbollah's missile supplies in violation of "international law."

    The new moral guidelines for international law are no longer justice, truth, liberty or morality, but just plain oil. The world's entire basis for ignoring most atrocities by Muslim nations is their having oil or having support of other oil suppliers. International law is now bought and paid for by petrodollars. The UN has devolved into an agency of OPEC.

    • muchiboy

      "The new moral guidelines for international law are no longer justice, truth, liberty or morality, but just plain oil. The world's entire basis for ignoring most atrocities by Muslim nations is their having oil or having support of other oil suppliers. International law is now bought and paid for by petrodollars. The UN has devolved into an agency of OPEC."

      Good.About time.So when can we expect Zionism to fall?When will America and the other Western liberal democracies do right by the Palestinians and abandon Israel.When? muchiboy

      • MixMChess

        Did you even bother reading his post? Arab oil money is whats been funding unrest and xenophobia in the middle east, NOT Israel. The Arab lobby and propaganda is what feeds all the bile and venom you spew.

        When will Western liberal democracies do right and stop funding Palestinian terror that murders sleeping Israeli children?

  • muchiboy

    "murders sleeping Israeli children? "

    Of course,MixMChess,murdering children in their sleep for political causes is horrific and should be universally condemned,the Palestinian people most of all(and maybe they do).But I know,as you should but always deny,that life is never so simple,especially with the tragedy that is Israel/Palestine.There are root causes that you,they and we ignore at our peril.And sure,the west is going to bring about regime change in Libya and not Zimbabwe because Gaddafi controls oil but Mugabe doesn't.American and western interest works for you and yours too in their support of Israel.Don't forget that.You and I can't have it all our own way,MixMChess.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "…murdering children in their sleep for political causes is horrific and should be universally condemned,the Palestinian people most of all(and maybe they do)."

      They don't, instead Palestinians in Rafah, celebrated in the streets by dancing, cheering and handing out sweets. Can you imagine celebrating the blatant intentional murder of innocent sleeping children?

    • MixMChess

      "But I know,as you should but always deny,that life is never so simple,especially with the tragedy that is Israel/Palestine."

      You're the one who conveniently frames the conflict in Marxist terms… it doesn't get any more simplistic than that.

  • muchiboy

    "will they go crying to the UN again? Will they go crying to the UN demanding that Isreal give back land it won in the war they started"

    I don't know.I do know that war doesn't always solve the root causes of injustice,and may even precipitate another war,in sowing the seeds of another conflict e.g.WWl leading to WWII.Now,in my opinion,and I know what it's worth on FPM,the UN legitimized the occupation and colonization of Palestine by the Diaspora and has done little to nothing to reverse the continuing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.
    Israel lost a war to the Romans long ago and far away and like the Palestinians were victims of ethnic cleansing to a different occupier.Yet they persisted over thousands of years,not mere decades,to reverse those defeats and humiliations.Why blame the Palestinians for essentially the same motives and means.Again,the Palestinian Jewish goose and the Palestinian Arab gander.I see it in terms of the Golden Rule,treating others as we would like to be treated.muchiboy

    • Spirit_Of_1683

      Naziboy, war is the reason why Hitler and Tojo weren't around in 1950, and also why there are still 15 million Jews left on this planet, as against the zero Jews you desire.

    • MixMChess

      "the UN legitimized the occupation and colonization of Palestine by the Diaspora and has done little to nothing to reverse the continuing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people."

      Huh? Israel had historical rights to the land going back thousands of years, and legal rights that ran with that historical precedent. More legal rights accrued with purchases of the land in the 18th and 19th century. The international community committed to restoring the Jewish homeland long before the UN. Recall, the Balfour Declaration was issued in 1917 and the League of Nations Palestine Mandate was issued in 1920, well before the birth of the UN.

    • MixMChess

      "Israel lost a war to the Romans long ago and far away and like the Palestinians were victims of ethnic cleansing to a different occupier."

      The Romans exiled only a PORTION of the Jewish population. The remaining Jews, banned from Jerusalem, FLOURISHED for centuries in other Jewish towns in Israel such as Yavne, Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

      There was always a continuous Jewish population in Israel. Even when the Jewish population was decimated by the Crusaders in the 12th century AD, it rebounded in the next centuries and grew as Jews returned in waves of immigration and settled in areas such as Safed, Jerusalem, Tiberius and Hebron.

    • MixMChess

      "I see it in terms of the Golden Rule,treating others as we would like to be treated."

      Explain to me again how the worldview you profess (with "golden rules") is not overly simplistic?

  • kim

    NOt a word of what G-d says..He calls muslims the cut off forever group. their choice. G-d will contine to do HIS WILL like it or not. Tells us HE will make men error and will send great delusion to those who won't except the truth, so they believe a lie. Even the top Islam leaders tell us there is no moderate Islam, and can lie for allah. One thing for sure is G-d will destroy and send jihad to sons of disobedience and tells us those who refuse or don't bless Israel is cursed. Genesis 12:3…all thru scripture HE warns the nations but they don't care..but one day soon, too late they will. Doesn't matter what anyone thinks..ONLY what G-d says counts..no one sits on the fence, you are for HIM and what HE says or on the side of evil…..

  • muchiboy

    Spirit of….I had previously blocked your replies to my comments in Intense Debate mode because of the insulting and personal attacks.As you persist in irrational,personal attacks I will resume the block.Nothing gained,nothing lost,except the opportunity for reasonable and useful debate.I liken this forum to a university class where there is tolerance to differing opinions.The debate can be intense and heated,with occasional crossing the line,but these are the exception,not the rule.Grow up,respect other posters if not their rational,differing opinions,and show some self restraint.muchiboy

  • muchiboy

    "Can you imagine celebrating the blatant intentional murder of innocent sleeping children? "

    I'd like to say no,MixMChess,but I know better or worse.It happens all the time.In my war ,too,it was no stranger.It's in you and me,brother.Don't fool yourself.Humanity has disgraced itself since it left the African grasslands.Ask the Holocaust survivors,the ones left to tell the story ,that is.And the last time I looked,you and I were part and parcel of Humanity.muchiboy

  • muchiboy

    "Explain to me again how the worldview you profess (with "golden rules") is not overly simplistic? "

    For once I'm not even going to try,MixMChess.I was brought up Catholic and taught by church and family to live by the Golden Rule.I like the Charter for Compassion.(see below) http://charterforcompassion.org/share/the-charter

  • ThePittsburghSteeler

    A large part of Israel's ability to destroy or at least disable Iran's nuclear capability
    comes from the supply of bunker-buster bombs on hand. I remember about a year
    and a half ago, that Obama prevented a shipment of bunker-buster bombs from
    reaching Israel.

    Hopefully Israel will find more of these bombs from another source, or build their
    own. If that's why they are postponing a strike on Iran, fine. But for Israel, Iran is only
    one of their problems. They've got Egypt to deal with as well. If Israel could quickly
    disable Iran's nuclear capability, then turn their attention westward, they would have
    a leg up on the situation.

    ThePittsburghSteeler

  • Glennd1

    @ Muchiboy – Why do you argue with the folks here? They aren't even in possession of the facts, and have no interest in learning them. The very fact that they are reading a Dershowitz column is enough to let you know that. Fyi, for those of you who don't know, Dershowitz authored an embarrassingly poor book on the history of the state of Israel, "The Case for Israel" that chose to ignore 25 years of scholarship on the region's history. Instead, he just parroted the history which had been peddled up until the early '80s, but much of which has been disproven by the declassification of many top secret Israelis government documents released in the 80s and later. Even in Rabin's own memoir, he talks about Ben Gurion ordering the "Ludda Death March" which was just one act of ethnic cleansing that ran more than 50,000 Arabs living in Palestine off their homeland.

    Many Israeli and Jewish historians now agree that Israel cleansed it's newly acquired territory of 630,000 Arabs from '47 – '49. Some of these historians say it was justified, that they newly found country faced an existential threat – but ignore that the threat was due to a western grab of Arab land on behalf of Zionists.

    My take? Both sides are morally repulsive. I'm certain the U.S . had no good reason to back Israel in '48 and given the horrific results of the idiotic idea of the western nations "gifting" Arab land to Zionists, smack in the middle of hostile Arab states, it seems that nothing good has come of it.

    I'm so sick Dershowitz and his anti-intellectual apologia for Zionism – and any publication that gives his faux scholarship a platform should be ashamed of itself. He must account for his ignoring the actual scholarship on a topic he babbles about so much. But like I said, Muchiboy – these folks don't care about facts. They "know" Israel is in the right and that the Arabs are the villains. They wonder why virtually all serious scholars of the topic are much more supportive of the Palestinian's cause. It's because of the facts, but these silly mouth-breathers aren't concerned with the facts. Fyi, if one of you are, you can go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exo… for a precis of the actions Israel undertook ethnically cleansing the Arabs. It's very well footnoted and balances the presentation with numerous perspectives. I dare anyone who thinks Israel and the Zionists are victims to read it – and the sources it relies on. You will come away with a very different view of who's zooming who. Oh yeah, a number of the sources cited are Jewish, Israeli and Zionist.

    Wake up! We have cost our nation dearly by siding with the Zionists against the Arabs and Muslims – how is that in our interest? Can you not see how much suffering and hatred we have caused? That the Palestinians have become so twisted morally is not excusable – but to ignore the very real causes of this conflict that sit with the Zionists and Israel is simply willful ignorance at this point. STOP LISTENING TO DERSHOWITZ, HE'S A LYING, SWINDLING LEFTIST!

    • MixMChess

      "Instead, he just parroted the history which had been peddled up until the early '80s, but much of which has been disproven by the declassification of many top secret Israelis government documents released in the 80s and later."

      Wrong as usual Glenn…. Much of what you claim is "new archival evidence" had already been known and written about by previous historians. The main difference is that the "new historians" started off from a political standpoint of condemning Israel (which hardly makes them an unbiased historian or trier of fact). Of course, the "new historians" of the 1980's work is severely criticized by mainstream, respected scholars who charge that their work violates scholarly standards of research and analysis, and is driven by a political-ideological agenda.

      Scholars from across the boards, who are experts in their fields, have effectively refuted many of the claims of these 'new historians.'

      For example, Benny Morris: Morris' own research refutes his claims that Israel committed 'ethnic cleansing' during the 1948 War. Daniel Polisar notes that: "If we consider the facts Morris presents, it is reasonably clear that the flight of much of the Arab population from the territory that became Israel stemmed from battles between Arab and Jewish forces, and from the fears of Arab civilians of getting caught in the fighting… In fact, Morris' own research does much to disprove the claims of his recent writings that what happened during the War of Independence was "ethnic cleansing." Benny Morris would later go on to refute his own claims and state unequivocally that Israel did not engage in any "ethnic cleansing."

    • MixMChess

      "Even in Rabin's own memoir, he talks about Ben Gurion ordering the "Ludda Death March" which was just one act of ethnic cleansing that ran more than 50,000 Arabs living in Palestine off their homeland."

      This is a LIE based on hearsay after Ben Gurion's death. IDF General Yigal Allon has set the record clear: "I did not ask the late Ben-Gurion for permission to expel the population of Lydda. I did not receive such permission and did not give such orders." Allon went on to state that Lydda residents were told leave by the Arab Legion, so the Arab Legion could recapture the town. The residents also left because they were panic-stricken over Arab Legion created rumors of Israeli marauding. Benny Morris confirmed this: "The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: 'Any opposition to this order…is an obstacle to the holy war…and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts.'"

      Professor Yoav Gelber has stated that "Ben-Gurion was in the habit of expressing his orders clearly, whether verbally or in writing, and would not have issued an order by waving his hand," he adds that "there is no record of any meetings before the invasion that indicate expulsion was discussed."

      Nice try though…

    • MixMChess

      "Many Israeli and Jewish historians now agree that Israel cleansed it's newly acquired territory of 630,000 Arabs from '47 – '49. Some of these historians say it was justified, that they newly found country faced an existential threat – but ignore that the threat was due to a western grab of Arab land on behalf of Zionists."

      Nope, the consensus of most historians is that Israel DID NOT engage in any ethnic cleansing before during or after the 1948 War of Independence. Even Benny Morris, one of the most prominent "new historians", denies that such policies existed: "[T]here was no Zionist policy to expel the Arabs or intimidate them into flight" in either the first or second stages of the mass panic flight of Palestinians in 1947 and 1948."

    • MixMChess

      "I'm certain the U.S . had no good reason to back Israel in '48 and given the horrific results of the idiotic idea of the western nations "gifting" Arab land to Zionists, smack in the middle of hostile Arab states, it seems that nothing good has come of it."

      What? The US merely the creation of Israel in 1948, but didn't provide any other backing. In fact, the US had imposed an arms embargo on Israel at the time.

      And besides, Western nations didn't "gift anything. Most of the land that became "Israel Proper" was either legally owned by Jews or was unoccupied desert (for instance, the inhospitable Negev Desert makes up approximately 50% of Israel). Recall, only 13% of the land that became "Israel Proper" belonged to Arabs.

    • MixMChess

      "I'm so sick Dershowitz and his anti-intellectual apologia for Zionism – and any publication that gives his faux scholarship a platform should be ashamed of itself."

      Good then begone antisemite.

      "But like I said, Muchiboy – these folks don't care about facts."

      Its obvious that you are the only one that doesn't care about facts.

      "They wonder why virtually all serious scholars of the topic are much more supportive of the Palestinian's cause."

      Wrong as usual, most serious scholarship supports the Israeli position. Only the incredibly flawed (and refuted) work of the "new historians" supports the Palestinian position.

      "I dare anyone who thinks Israel and the Zionists are victims to read it – and the sources it relies on. You will come away with a very different view of who's zooming who."

      Oh I forgot how authoritative Wikipedia is. As Michael Scott from The Office famously said: "Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information." Whats funny is most of the "sources" are from the "New Historians", who vehemently criticize each other for shoddy scholarship, falsifications and factual errors and for biased conclusions that serve their political agendas.

      I know books and knowledge is scary to you Glenn, but if you want to know what really happened in 1948 read: Efraim Karsh's "Fabricating Israeli History: The "New Historians", Shabati Teveth's "The Palestine Arab Refugee Problem and Its Origins" (Middle Eastern Studies April 1990), Anita Shapira "Israeli historical revisionism" or Mark Tessler's "A history of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict." When you're done getting your information from Wikipedia you can come back and talk with the grown-ups, m'kay?

  • stern

    Thank you MixMchess for keeping Glenn honest. I would just add one more book to your list: "Palestine Betrayed" by Efraim Karsh. Karsh has mined a wealth of newly released British and Arab League documents and proved conclusively – without even a shadow of a doubt – that it was the Arabs themselves who "ethnically cleansed" the Arab population of the Holy Land. After reading this book, there is no-one, anywhere, who can continue to claim that Israel is guilty.

  • PhantompinkLADY

    If the Mufti of Jerusalem, before and during WWII was a BIG supporter of Hilter and a planner of the holocaust, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE MAIN-MAN of Islam in the old Brit territory of "palestine"???

    That old Mufti!! Besides helping to form two divisions of Muslim SS troops in Bosnia and Kosovo, he made LONG radio broadcasts into the Arab/Muslim run middle East in hopes that the broadcasts would insure the murder of the Jews that resided there as well.

    Seems to me the Muslims of the Middle East had a plan to kill off the Jewsi n the region just as the Germans did in Europe. Hitler promised them they would be his representatives in the region. And, the Muslims CONTINUE Hitler's plans to this very day.

    So any EXCUSE that the FAKESTINIANS come up to get rid of Israel and JEWS, is JUST THEIR UNFINISHED NAZI/FASCIST business , steeping forward all the way from FROM WWII.

    They can scream descrimination and ethnic cleansing …Blah! blah! Just NAZIS crying crocA-shiite-dile tears! BAH! HUMBUG!