Where Is Obama’s Popularity Bounce?

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In fact, the White House has gone further – they’ve maintained that Obama didn’t issue a kill order, but a kill or capture order.  Except that Bin Laden was, by revised accounts, unarmed.  Except that he wasn’t shot to wound, but to kill.  Except that his body was immediately transformed into chum so that we had no chance to forensically investigate the situation.

Again, why the insistence that no kill order was given?  Most Americans would – and did – openly celebrate the killing of the 21st century’s most wanted man.  Obama is retrospectively fighting the notion of a kill order because of the implication: that it would have been a mistake to capture Bin Laden.  Why would it have been a mistake to capture him?  Because we would have had to read him his Miranda rights under current Obama Administration rules, ship him to New York for trial, assign him an ACLU lawyer, and wait for him to claim ill treatment at the hands of US troops, who would then have to be dragged into court.  Conservatives have said for years that Obama’s law enforcement approach to terrorism incentivizes our soldiers to kill enemies on the battlefield rather than subjecting Americans to years of criminal justice idiocy.  By issuing a kill order, Obama effectively legitimated the entire conservative case – hence his attempts to rewrite his kill order.

Finally, the Obama Administration’s treatment of the Bin Laden death photographs demonstrates that this president has already disassociated himself from the John Wayne routine he embraced at the beginning of the week.  Rather than allowing the world to see hard evidence of Bin Laden’s death,  Obama announced that he didn’t want to “spike the football” by releasing the death pictures (even though other pictures were quickly leaked to the media).  He actually insulted the American people in the process, questioning how Americans would react if Al Qaeda terrorists murdered a U.S. soldier and published pictures of the body.

This Obama, not the John Waynebama of a few days ago, is the real Obama.  The real Obama is the fellow who believes that Americans and radical Muslims react the same way to death photos of their heroes, even though Americans have not rioted a single time during the entire war on terror – not when Al Qaeda murdered 3,000 of our citizens; not when Al Qaeda released a taped beheading of Daniel Pearl; not when they released a taped beheading of Nick Berg; not when they killed four civilian contractors in Iraq, burned their bodies, and hung them from a bridge.

Obama has frightened himself with his Charles Bronson routine.  Now he is running from it.  And the American people recognize that Obama is no tough guy, no hard-ass, no leader in the war on terror.  That is what caused the tepid response in the polls.

Ben Shapiro is an attorney and writer and a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, and author of the upcoming book “Primetime Propaganda: The True Hollywood Story of How The Left Took Over Your TV” from Broadside Books, an imprint of HarperCollins.

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  • Justin wilkinson

    BARRACK OBAMA IS VERY DESPERATE WILL SAY ANYTHING TO KEEP HIS JOB!!! PATHETIC PUPPET OBAMA…"YOU'RE FIRED"

    • Guest

      Let's hope it's not Donald Trump saying that! It would be nice if Ron Paul got on the ballot, but I suspect this is all a political stunt!

  • http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm Alexander Gofen

    The reporting on the entire event was so controversial, that it is impossible to make any sense of it. It looks rather as disinformation and a fog screen timed in the very particular moment to distract the attention from the more and more revealing illegitimacy and criminality of this impostor.

    • Amused

      More incoherent babbling from you Gofen ….but what else culd be expected from you ?

  • Mr Urbye

    We cannot disregard the possiblility that Osama is on a lifelong vacation in the US.

    • Federal43

      We can, he produced his birth certificate, and he was born here. Get over it.

      • kelly s

        to Federal43 – Mr Urbye said Osama, not Obama. WHO needs to get over it now? ;-)

        • Veralto

          Kazaam!! Point well made Kelly S :) And a well laid trap Mr Urbye :)

        • Federal43

          Yeah, yeah, like hell it was a well laid trap. People on Fox News saying "Osama Bin Laden, sorry Barack Obama" is not a coincidence. It is designed to float the idea in the minds of people that the two are somehow similar. In any case sorry, I was reading Tea Party posts and they are pretending still that President Obama was not born here in America. In any case this article implies that Obama has not been agressive enough in projecting American power. 1. He has continued the stupid wars and policies of his predecessor so he has been very agressive, drone strikes have gone skyward in Pakistan since he took office. 2. America, and this is largely thanks to the policies and economics of American conservatism have drained America of power and left it a debt ridden country, with an unacceptable gap between the rich and the rest, as well as being a country suffering from chronic under-investment.

          • coyote3

            Totally irrelevant. He said "Osama", no question about it. I don't think it was a trap, but you turned into one for yourself. You were so obsessed, that you couldn't turn it off for one second. Tee hee.

          • Federal43

            Perhaps you are right, and I notice you have said nothing to the other stuff. Yes I was wrong to think that right wingers always try and suggest that Osama Bin Laden and Barack Obama are the same person.

          • Amused

            LOL….the great irony here is that the way most of these people on the blog talk , to a total stranger to politics ,visiting here , may well indeed conclude , that Osama and Obama are one in the same …both are termed muslim , both are figured as out to destroy America . And infact many on this blog have JUXTAPOSED the two names in their partisan mudslinging . And they know this an apt description of their countless diatribes .

          • Federal43

            Welcome to the Reality based community. All are welcome, we are a caring community, that provides for even the least of our citizens. I can't tell you how refreshing it is, not to get insulted.

  • davarino

    He didnt get a bounce because the American people know this is not his modus operandi. It smells to much like, "Im falling in the polls so I have to kill somebody to look like a red blooded American".

    Really? Wash the body and give it a respectable burial? No pictured cause it might inflame those that already hate us and want to kill us? No spiking the football? Really? This is why he didnt get his bounce. Osama should have been chopped up and thrown in the ocean for chum.

    • OLJingoist

      Now why would you want to make all those fish sick?

    • Federal43

      Don't be so gruesome, were you in the Pentagon on 9/11? And doing all that stuff which you consider wimpy puts our troops and ourselves in less danger. So unless you like painting a target on people, I suggest you reconsider your words.

  • kafir4life

    His bounce will come in 625 days, 4 hours when he hits the ground as he's tossed from the white house as our new president is inaugurated.

  • http://www.worldthinktank.net Lance Winslow

    Well, it's really simple, Obama got no bounce in the polls, because he didn't deserve any.

    • Federal43

      That's right, for the same reason that Bush continued to sink in popularity during the surge period in Iraq. The American people want out of the war.

      • coyote3

        They do???, and you speak for all of them, every one of them? When may we attack Iran? Iran invaded the U.S.

        • Federal43

          Iran did not invade the U.S. I don't recall seeing Iranian troops on the National Mall. Further to that AQ and the Iranians hate each other. Think of it as being the sort of disputes that cause Protestants and Catholics to disagree

          • coyote3

            No you are just lying. No, no Iranian troops were on the national mall, but that is irrelevant, they were as good as on the national mall. The Iranians invaded U.S. soil. It was every bit a part of the U.S. as Del Rio, Tejas. You answer tells me that you are not what you purport to be, otherwise, you would know that they invaded the U.S. when they took over the embassy. U.S. embassy = U.S. soil

  • Fred Dawes

    All black brown and yellow people of the world love obama, but not all can vote for him in one year, unless obama stop, the vote from happening or helps the vote along if you know what i mean?

    • coyote3

      Please, I disagree. This is one "brown" person who doesn't "love" him.

    • Ekofo

      i disagree … i'm black… i don't like his policy

    • Amused

      LOL…more of that ole' Dawes Racism . Can control that mouth of yours , eh Dawes ?

      • coyote3

        I didn't take it as racism, because, it isn't. He didn't say one thing about anyone's race. Pigment of skin has nothing to do with race.

  • OLJingoist

    Imagine that….
    Obama is willing to p*ss off 1.5 billion muslims to win an election.
    Now he is truly abandoned.
    PS…Now is the time to ask the so called muslim moderates where they stand. And accept none of the usual BS about being a devout muslim. Why yes you are excuse me I see now that you are following mohameds example. And the koran why it's all good. /sarc.

  • Andres de Alamaya

    There has probably never been a president in the history of America who has disgusted as many Americans as Obama has. This sad condition brings dangers because many voters are ready to vote for ANYONE just to get rid of Obama. It is up to the GOP to come up with the right team that will not only rid us of this despicable disaster but that will salvage the country that is now in deep, deep trouble.

    • Federal43

      I don't know Bush has 18% approval ratings and Obama has 52%. And the GOP will only wreck things even worse than the Democrats. They never invest in anything.

      • GKC

        They never invest in anything.

        I only wish that were true!

        • Federal43

          What do you man by that exactly?

    • Viktoria

      that's why we're in this mess in the first place. this current prez was just that ANYONE!
      no history except a long string suspicious connections to radicals, socialists and ACORN, liars, cheaters, etc.
      Want a real leader, a man of principles,conviction, character Congressman Alan West is the choice! Look him up!

  • Jim_C

    Well, I'll sure be interested to read the rationalizations and comments when Obama gets re-elected!

    No doubt ACORN, led by Bill Ayers and funded by the Evil Soros will have ginned the numbers–with the Black Panthers clubbing frightened old white folks at their nursing home poll stations. Bands of Mexican-Muslims, their "Taqqiya Taquerias" popping up in empty storefronts, will be granted the authority to ration health care to those willing to convert to Islam. Allahu La Raza! VIVA OBAMA! LEADER FOR LIFE!

    • trickyblain

      LOL @ "Taqqiya Taquerias." Nice touch!

      But don't forget about the Kenyan Stalin Socialists, Imposter Facsists and Black Nazis!

    • coyote3

      I am not going to make any prediction, yet. You are, apparently, willing to do so. Notice, you did not say "if", but used the word, "when". I will keep your comment for further reference.

      • Jim_C

        Thank you–hold me to it!

    • William_Z

      Be cautious. The economy is not turning around. The price of gas is increasing, and these to factors are always laid at the feet of the president. What formula do you think the administration’s has to turn those factors around? Taxing driving by the mile, which is what the president has floated is not a winner.

      • Jim_C

        You may be right, though in economies like this, "tax the rich" plays well to a general electorate. I suspect the rich will have something to say about that, though, in the form of camapign contributions to The Other Guy.

        Bottom line–if people don't go back to work, Obama can still lose the election. The problem for Republicans as I see it (as democrats have certainly found out many times) you can't run against something with nothing.

  • Steve Chavez

    Why the sudden drop in oil prices? Are speculators Democrats who will give credit to Obama for killing Osama? Very suspicious!

    • Amused

      Yup , that's it Chavez ….lol…atleast you have the brains to figure out why the oil prices are high …..SPECULATORS , the main reason . and they all MUST be Democrats huh Chavez ? ….lol…does that make you feel better to say that ? Quite a show of ignorance ole' boy !

  • Federal43

    The war is stupid anyway, why are we even still there? $130 billion spent on Amtrak will do much more good for the country than $130 billion spent on a country whose GDP is less than a fifth of that sum of money.

  • Jim Gallaghert

    Bottom line, if Obama gets back in we will join the 3rd world nations. This Radical Socialist is determined to bring this country to its knee's. To those on the left, what will you do if it happens and you can't bitch no more cause it'll be illegal.When all you bleeding heats with the big money, and you libs claim the right has all the money BS, on the left coast and your forced to give it up and live like up poor old common folks, what will you do then. Your idiots and your fueling the fires of Socialism and the death of our Nation

    • Federal43

      He ain't no radical socialist, he is a right winger. And your post does not even make sense, although I am not surprised that it comes across as being constructed exactly like the ravings of an ignorant lunatic who fancies himself a genius.

    • Federal43

      My that is a mass of incoherence! The right has more money than the left. Was Jack Abramoff a left-winger? Michael Scanlon? All these sorts of people who have ruined the careers of good, honest Civil Servants, cheated their clients out of money? In 1965, with a lot more regulation, the GDP grew by 6.5%, where is that sort of growth today? That was when the country was a lot more "socialist." P.S. Obama is not a Socialist! He is a right winger!

  • BLJ

    Obama is a boob.

  • wasicu36

    Obama is a moron with the spine of a slug; that's why he can so easily bow and scrape before sickening despots like the Saudi sods and the Chicoms. He should be sent to Afghanistan to walk point in front of real men, carrying a super soaker.

  • phillyfanatic

    Is this a dead cat one??? LOL Well, Americans can tell …..9% unemployment is really 18% underemployment. And all, all the Obama horror policies are still with us: gas prices, food prices, Stimulus failed, CARE failures, other foreign policies that have failed, border problems, no energy policy domestically, and continued prevarications from Biden and the rest of the Dem minions who still reside in the US Senate.

    • Jim_C

      Stimulus "failed?" Should have spent MORE, then.

      Obama foreign policy "failues?" He's done everything right.

      Border problems, gas prices, food prices: I forgot, conservatives think Obama is "magic." He should just wave his magic wand and make it all better! So I guess Obama has failed here for NOT intervening. Wait–do you guys like, or not like, government intervention in the economy? Please make up your ditzy minds.

      • coyote3

        Completely constitutionally incorrect government. Stimulus, illegal to begin with. Case closed. Border problems, definately within the constitutional authority of the U.S. Gas prices, no he cannot raise or lower them, except in the sense that he can begin drilling everywhere and anywhere, and that "will" cause the price of oil to drop immediately. How much? We don't know, because he won't try it. That would also be within the constitutional authority of the government. Please try to focus and keep up.

      • pagegl

        There should have been NO government intervention in the economy. Bush was a boob for signing TARP.

        We don't have the money to piss away on repeating experiments that have been tried in the past and have yet to work. Einstein said it best: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

    • trickyblain

      You do know that 52 percent is a majority?

      "Minions" – hilarious. Totally hilarious post there, philly.

      Go SF Giants!

  • probably12

    Amazing that the lefties adulation of the Messiah is short so short lived; the numbers are anemic at best. The Halo is gone and the waters has not receeded, and the planet has not healed.

  • coollikeme

    I think Obama is a coward. I think he handled the breaking new announcement totally wrong. Instead of calling a press conference and allowing reporters to ask questions, he opted to simply make a statement, taking full credit for what HE had orchestrated. He knew that there would be a ton of questions and he was not prepared to answer any.

    product reviews

    • Amused

      I guess you didn't bother to listen to his statement " The United States " was the term used , not " I " or " Me " ..Yea …"a ton of questions " , all of which the answers to , would have to be carefully assesd in accordance to issues of national security , which in fact trumps all other considerations , yes , even your own partisan bitterness .

  • coyote3

    Bravo Sierra, they are not "sick" of anything, except their indigenous "sickness". Okay, I am going to say it, this was a "polictically correct" operation. They weren't really serious. If they had been serious not one of the occupants in that house would have survived.

    • Federal43

      SEALS, like all Special Forces, often do things spectacularly wrong, see the Iran Hostage Crisis. Carter may have authorized the rescue, but he did not plan the operation. The catastrophe is the responsibilty of bad Military planning, of incompetent officers, and men who think they are invincible. Not all SpecOps guys are like that, many ex-Spec Ops were among the most humble, competent, and diligent people I know.

  • Len_Powder

    The link which follows should provide some answers to the befuddling narrative the WH keeps changing each day related to Osama's assassination. Prepare to be shocked as well as informed.
    http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-o

  • Amused

    More history , down the memory hole .It's " a victory lap " with Obama [a mission really accomplished ] ….and when Bush donned a flight suit , got a ride in a miltary jet , landed on an aircraft carrier ,and proclaimed "Mission Accomplished " [when in fact it wasn't ...and STILL hasn't ] what do you call that ? …what abunch of hypocrites !

    • Federal43

      Hear Hear!

    • fmobler

      What? What?

      Whole English sentences … please … can't understand you. [insert unnecessary brackets, here -- with misplaced commas AND capitalization and punctuation !].

  • Federal43

    Yes they do do that, but those people are a minority. Most muslims in that part of the world think the Taliban and AQ are dangerous fanatics and fight us only because they are being threatened or because we do stupid things like bomb their villages. Besides, the entire war itself is flawed. Having troops out there, and turning our attention, out there, makes us far less safe here.

  • Amused

    And …"Obama a coward " ? Really ? He launches a mission whch could have easily ended in disaster with loss of life of Americans , possibilities that bin Laden would not be there at the time …and of cource the ranker to be raised by people like those found on blogs like his and Repo-Con politicians .
    And BTW …Obama DID get a bounce in the popularity polls , that being a result of Americans who were able to see past their partisan hatred , and recognize the importance of KILLING bin Laden , and who quite literall didn' care at all whether bin Laden resisted or not , was armed or not , and MOST Americans would have him EXECUTED , rather than "captured and brought to justice " anyway .
    So REPO-CONS are feverishly manufacturing new arguments to denigrate POTUS ., just like the Somali Pirate incident where the ships captain was rescued , pirates killed , and the Rush Limbaugh crew of this country started cying crocodile tears for these poor Somali young men . Your hypocrisy is so transparent its astounding!

    • Grayzel

      Now tell me………….did he really have a choice? The information about where Usama was had been known since last August or September. Both the left and the right have a propensity to leak information. Let us suppose Barrack H. Obama in the 16 hours of deciding, decided to do nothing or to use an armed drone. In the case of a drone attack, there would have been much more disinformation than we currently have. What would the public reaction be to this information when leaked and what would be the legacy of his Presidency?

  • topperj

    Obama was called in at the last minute to give his approval to a plan that was probably already under way. The Ditherer-in-Chief has a track record of well, dithering, over-thinking every decision that might bode well for America. When it comes to attacking America, he is there, front-and-center to deliver his beat down. Obama is a phony patriot, milking this for all it's worth. Let him, it won't help him in the long run. Remember, he was the one who hadn't visited the 9/11 site since becoming President, he was the one who wanted a civilian trial in NYC for KSM and HE was all for that "stick-in-the eye" mosque on the site of 9/11. THAT is the real Obama.

  • Amused

    Nice piece of partisan B.S. Rhetoric . Your first sentence is a clear indication of your ignorance and the usual blind hatred towards your president .We have a military to plan a mission , we have intelligence agencies to provide the vital info , and we have a President , yes , to APPROVE the mission , thus he is responsible for it's success or failure . Face it man , you'd criticize if he didn't order the missionm or if he did , whether it was a succes or failure . Since the first day he took office , the Rush Limbaugh mentality permeates all that your bitter lot wish and pray for, ….that he fails ….no matter the consequences for the country , that is secondary . THAT is the real YOU . Your wrap your racism in the flag and call it "patriotism " .

    • GKC

      His failure does not necessarily equate to America's failure.

      • Amused

        LOL…you gotta be kidding …..according to the mentality of this blog , and most of the people posting , his success OR failure is America's failure . Besides , that is not what I implied , the desire for Obama to fail , regardless of the consequences is the mean spirited , contemptuous attitude that permeates the republican mentality . And please dont try to be coy about this , you know it's true .

        • cjk

          His success IS Americas failure chumpski.
          His failure IS Americas success.
          The desire for Obama to fail is a well though out patriotic desire of those who truly love the USA.
          Those on the left who despise and hold the USA in contempt are the ones who want to see this schmuck succeed.
          Doesn't even matter to us whether or not you know this to be true because we do.

          • Amused

            So I guess 53% of the electorate who put Obama in Office , "despise and hold in contempt " their own country ? What pathetic brainwashed drivel .YOUR FIRST TWO SENTENCES TELL THE STORY . You've got your heads planted firmly up your arses .

          • cjk

            No, 53% are either racists, dupes, ignoramuses, immoral, or do hold the USA in contempt you disingenuous amusing dope.
            INDEED my first two sentences above do say it all, thanks.

  • Steve

    But it was worth it to get Mr. Trump off the front page.

  • Amused

    Trump was off the front page Saturday night when he got his smackdown come-uppance from POTUS himself ….and he didn't look too happy .

  • informer

    Bin Laden is dead…for 10 years already!l thats why Obama cant reproduce photo's … and bury a see? listen:

    Dr. Steve Pieczenik: Bin Laden,The Oswald Like Patsy Died 10 Years Ago! 1/7
    http://youtu.be/xj0pM5FoYbs part 1
    http://youtu.be/TeMlL3ANprI part 2
    http://youtu.be/5nSpWaN7CEo part 3
    http://youtu.be/r36tfTsS7To part 4
    http://youtu.be/5nSpWaN7CEo part 5
    http://youtu.be/3KjH49jm0vE part 6
    http://youtu.be/cxl9YSm57RY part7

  • informer

    We were……………………….dummies to believe that Obama killed Bin Laden….killed dead ?

    • Amused

      Change the " We " to " I " , and then you'll have it right . And of course without thinking , you insult the Navy Seals who ACCOMPLISHED the mission . But it's far more important for people like you to denigrate the Pres . to the exclusion of all else . A true Repo-Con – teabagger …..

      • cjk

        Teabagger? You must be a teabagee .
        Lay on your back, close your eyes, open wide and say ahh.
        If you're a real good boy I'm sure your leftie friends will even toss you a pearl necklace too.

  • Amused

    It will be "amusing " to see how many idiots concurr with you Mr. "informer " .

    • informer

      amusing? only Americans do not know that Bin Laden is dead years ago…keep believing your Muslim Obama….your problem

    • informer

      dont forget to look at his real BC….the one he doesnt want you to see…Born in Kenya
      http://alohareporter.com/2010/03/hawaii-consideri

  • informer
  • informer
  • biggershovel

    Obama's popularioty bounce is on its way: it'll arrive as soon as he gets bounced into the penitentiary for having committed election fraud in 2008.

  • Brain

    This post is simply factually incorrect. According to RCP, which takes an average of all polls into account, his approval has jumped 5 points. But keep lying to your readers if you so desire.

  • Federal43

    The pictures at Abu Ghraib? They were censored, and it was different. I'll explain why. What those soldiers did there, I suspect under orders from a bunch of Generals, was a disgrace to the dignity of the United States and its Armed Forces. Publishing the pictures certainly did not help, but something had to be done. The Iraqi people, and the world had to be shown that we would not tolerate such things. We failed, General Sanchez should have gone on trial for what happened, as should have the Commandant of the prison, especially since torture does not work. There is no point in interrogation more than 48 hours after capture, basic counterinsurgency. Yet the pictures of the dead swollen bodies of the sons of Saddam Hussein, by contrast, did something that should never have happened, it engendered sympathy for them. I was horrified as I shopped for a christmas present for my grandson to come across a toy of Uday Hussein begging for his life, and this was meant to be a child's toy. Teaching children to revel in the deaths of their enemies and delight in their torture, that would be something that, well Uday Hussein would have been raised to do.
    Similarly with Bin Laden, AQ might have released pictures of people who it had captured and killed, but they would not do it, probably because they realize it would be build sympathy for their victims. As someone who has been to war, I know that you can only glory in the death of your hated enemy in the abstract. When he is looking down the gunsight at you, and you at him, it is very difficult to shout "Hell yeah!" when you shoot him, or even her. You can tell that, except for psychopaths, the other person probably did not want to actually kill or maim you, but because he or she could not be sure that you felt the same way, they pulled the trigger. Most people, healthy people do not revel in death. I was directly attacked and the emotions I felt were sober relief, and when I saw the crowds, disgust. Americans don't act like that, Americans have unquestioned moral superiority to their enemies. We should not release the photographs because seeing someone who has died and the gruesomeness of it, will engender sympathy for him in a lot of people, regardless of what they thought of him.

  • coyote3

    Well, you established one thing. You know nothing about the subject, and even less about interrogation. Enhanced interrogation, even what is considered torture, does work, but It depends on what result you are trying to get.

  • davarino

    Putting up the pictures of Abu Grabe put our soldiers at risk because it pissed off the enemy. But not ok to put up pictures of Osama because it would put our soldiers at risk because it would piss off the enemy

    You want to be a little more consistant?

  • davarino

    How bout Hitler, was that a "hell yeah" or was that a somber moment? Lets all bow our heads in a moment of silence.

    I have no wish to see the pictures cause I get off on seeing gore, blood and death. I more would like the enemy to see what they possibly have coming. If we cant scare the crap out of our enemy then what do we have left? Cant shoot them with out ID. Cant torture them. Cant piss them off. Have to bury their dead respectfully.

    THIS IS HOG WASH

  • Federal43

    Enhanced Interrogation does not work! As I said if you torture someone 48 hours after capture it is just torture for the sake of torture. The Taliban and AQ, if one of their members is captured will move so that within 48 hours any operational information the person who was captured knows becomes obsolete. Did you serve 5 years in the Army and 34 in DoD?

  • davarino

    ok so they move. Does that mean we dont even try to get info from them cause every one is moving? Even if they are moving, we are on their trail and we have them on the move running scared. Scared people make mistakes.

    So your saying we just bring them in for a chat and some coffee and see what good recipes they have?

    I think you worked in DoD so long they drilled this nonsense into you

  • Federal43

    Yes they move! As a matter of fact they move so quickly and clean up so thoroughly that after 48 hours it no longer matters. So torture someone a week after they have been captured, a month! It no longer makes any sense, if it ever did. When we fought WWII, we did beat people or use waterboarding to get information, and we were successful in obtaining intelligence from captured sources. In answer to your question, yes that would be a better idea. You know why? Torture is degrading, to the person who suffers from it, and the person who commits it. It engenders hatred in the victim towards those doing it to him, an undying hatred. Why do you think, in 1953, the Soviets purged all those NKVD interrogators, because their victims wanted even, whereas before they had trusted the NKVD, they had come to hate it. Besides being agreeable, and civil can go a long way to convince to whittle at your enemy's will to fight. In any case, the entire war is a dumb idea anyway. We don't need troops abroad to keep us safe, we should focus more on defending our borders. Turning all our attention out there, makes us less safe here.

  • Federal43

    I am being consistent. Yes showing those pics of Abu Ghraib was unhelpful, but only because we did not go far enough to punish the guilty. If we had put Generals on trial, thereby showing that the US really did not condone or tolerate such practices, the very openess we demonstrated with the release of the photographs would have engendered trust, but no, we did not do that. Instead we punished some lowly subordinates and let the big fish get away. It diminished our credibility ion the eyes of the world.

  • Federal43

    It was not a "Hell yeah" moment, more of a "at last" with extremely grim satisfaction, or in other words, sober relief. By the way, we do scare the crap out of our enemies, to them we are scary. We have drones that can strike out of nowhere, heavy artillery, superior technology, and (shock horror) female soldiers. Furthermore of course we cannot torture them, would you want to be tortured? Besides as I said the brutality of torture is counterproductive. Of course we cannot piss them off, because we need to win hearts and mind. Of course we have to bury their dead respectfully, to win their respect, to show that we are decent. Oh and if you like none of it, demand a withdrawal from a pointless war. You are impatient about counterinsurgency in Afghanistan? You should be, its not our country, who cares about it? The only Insurgency that we should be worried about, is if one breaks out here in the US, and would you act in such a manner in your own country, fighting your own people? Would you?

  • coyote3

    Bravo Sierra. I served a lot longer than that. Again, it depends on what you are trying to extract. And again, a lot of the information we have obtained is from people interrogated > than 48 hours after being taken into custody, and it paid off.