David Horowitz at UCLA: Transcript

David Horowitz
UCLA
May 11, 2011

David Horowitz: I hope we’re in for a civil, intellectual evening tonight.  But being that this is a university — and I have a lot of experience with universities; I’ve been on about 400 campuses — I’m going to hold my breath on that one.

You can’t get a good education if they’re only telling you half the story.  Everybody understands this.  You know, you watch a court show — if there’s only a prosecutor commenting on the case, and there’s no defense attorney, you know you’re not getting the whole story.  And that’s true with all controversies in human affairs.  And controversies really dominate human affairs.

So I’m sorry to tell you, but if you’re in the liberal arts program at this university, you’re not getting a good education.  I’ve talked to the students here, and they can identify three or four conservatives on the liberal arts faculty, all of whom are in the closet.

(Laughter)

Conservatives actually outnumber so-called liberals — I don’t like to call them liberals, because they’re really leftists — something like 40 to 20.  But, you know, even assuming that there’s a 70-30 split or whatever, the university campuses are practically conservative-free — the faculties.  How does this happen?  Well, it happens because of the largest and most successful blacklist in the history of this country.

McCarthy — I went to Columbia — I was a Marxist, actually, at Columbia, in the McCarthy era.  McCarthy never had the kind of influence to persecute Marxists — certainly not on college campuses — that Marxists, faculty Marxists, at this university and others have today.  McCarthy was outside the university community, and the university community was hostile to McCarthy.

Closely related to this academic principle is the principle of free speech.  And I think one of the problems that we face as a nation is that people take far too for granted the privileges and the rights that they have.  There’s no more important right than the right of free speech.  That doesn’t mean that anybody could stand up right now and start ranting at me.  Free speech means the ability to find a platform in which you can express your ideas.

Every single right you enjoy is dependent on free speech.  Because if you don’t have free speech, if people can be attacked for their ideas and driven out of the public square, then you can’t defend any of your rights.  And you have a one-party system and a one-orthodoxy society.

And I have to tell you that free speech is under attack, systematic attack, on our college campuses by the political Left — by people who call themselves progressives and are always screaming that they’re being — that McCarthyism people are always persecuting them; when, in fact, they are the persecutors and the witch-hunters.

This event is taking place under a cloud of intimidation.  There’s been so much intimidation to prevent — what you’re witnessing right now is me speaking in one room on a university campus of 45,000 people; I don’t know how many rooms.  Yet, groups on this campus — I’ll name them — the Muslim Students Association, Students for Justice in Palestine, Jewish Voice for Peace — have led a campaign to vilify and demonize not just me — because I come, and I go — but the students who have sponsored me; and to try to prevent them both from holding this evening, and also putting up the Wall of Lies which was on display today on this campus.

Actually, one of the threats was serious enough that the campus security notified my security that there was a threat made against me.  And I’ll probably discuss that later in the evening.  But the fact that I have to come — I don’t go to a campus without a bodyguard.  And the reason is I’ve been physically attacked on several occasions on universities’ campuses, but also that there is such hatred directed at me — I’m misquoted, misrepresented in my quotes — that I have to take seriously the possibility that some deranged individual or group of individuals might want to do me bodily harm.

And this is true of many a conservative speaker.  It’s not true of any leftists.  Not true of any leftists.  This event has been — I’ve been called a racist, an Islamophobe — and demonized in that way.

Just this weekend, you have a loon who I happen to have known when I was a leftist, who –  a Jew who traveled to Lebanon to meet with Hassan Nasrallah, who said that he hopes that all of us Jews gather in Israel so he won’t have to hunt us down globally, and went to kiss his ring.  And this loon just recently has said Barack Obama is a murderer, that Barack Obama murdered Osama bin Laden, and that if anybody should be assassinated, it’s George Bush because he’s a much greater monster than Osama bin Laden.  Of course, I’m speaking of Noam Chomsky, who lost his mind 30 or 40 years ago –

(Laughter)

– but is a great icon among so-called progressives on college campuses.

But the point is nobody attacked — there wasn’t an attempt to intimidate groups from supporting Noam Chomsky.  He was allowed to come and say whatever he had to say.  The fact of the matter is there was only one — there are several campus groups that would support what I have to say tonight.  But only one had the courage to invite me, and to put themselves on the line and in the line of fire, which is College Republicans, and I thank them.

(Applause)

There are other ways that you can express yourself.  One is by putting up the wall, which came under enormous attack.  The wall is 10 — it just refutes 10 lies on which the entire Palestinian case against Israel and the entire case of the Left, including Jewish Voice for Peace, is based.

I condensed the 10 statements into one and published it in the New York Times.  Then I attempted to get the Daily Bruin to buy a page in the Daily Bruin, so that UCLA students might see another side.

Of course, UCLA students don’t tend to see another side because the faculty is all left.  It’s another reason I [could’ve] been invited by a faculty member.  In 400 speeches that I’ve given on university campuses, I’ve been invited three times by faculty.  Three, out of 400.  The Left should be ashamed of itself for doing this.

I understand why the Left does it.  One of the reasons it does it is it really can’t answer the arguments of conservatives.  If they could, they would do it.  I’ll come back here next week and debate anybody — well, not anybody.  I will debate — let’s say, I’ll debate a faculty member who will speak for the Left on the issues I’m speaking on tonight.  Any faculty member.  But that’s not going to happen.  Because the Left cannot meet the arguments.

The effort here to shut down criticism — now, why am I hated by the Muslim Students Association and Students for Justice for Palestine?  I’m hated because I pointed out that the Muslim Students Association was created by the Muslim Brotherhood.  The Muslim Brotherhood is an organization that supported Hitler, that said, when Israel was created in 1948, that — if the Jews create a state, we will push them into the sea — this is Hassan al-Banna.  It’s the organization in which Osama bin Laden learned the form of Islam that led him to be a terrorist.  It is the organization of the Brotherhood that created Hamas.

During Palestine Awareness Week, on this campus — if you looked on the wall, the so-called Apartheid Wall — this is what I call Hate the Jews week — Palestine Awareness Week and Israel Apartheid Week.  Israel is the only country in the Middle East that’s not an apartheid state.  It’s the only place where if you’re gay, you not only can live in peace and not be afraid of being hanged from cranes — where they do it in Iran — but you actually can hold a Gay Pride parade.  The only place in the Middle East where there’s a Gay Pride parade.  The only place — there are 56, or whatever there are, Muslim countries.  Not one of them could you hold a Gay Pride parade in, without fear of being lynched, and probably being lynched.

Israel is the only one.  And yet, these groups, the Muslim Students Association and Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace, call Israel an apartheid state.  And the only reason that they can do this is because there’s a great silence on this campus by faculty, who should know better.  Why aren’t there adult voices on this campus saying this is just wrong?  Why aren’t there progressives, faculty members, saying this is just wrong?  Israel apartheid — I mean, first of all, it violates every principle of respect for the other that this university claims to uphold.

(Applause)

Muslims are protected on this campus, blacks are protected on this campus, Hispanics are protected on this campus, but not Jews.  Jews have to walk by the Apartheid Wall accusing other Jews of stealing a whole country and oppressing a people.  And on this wall they have to witness, as a saint — and I’m talking about the wall on the UCLA campus — Sheik Yassin, personally responsible for the murder of 369 innocent Jews, solely because they were Jews.  They were not military officers.  They were Jews.  They were not a threat to anybody; they were just Jews.

Hamas — I will read you — it’s really simple.  And if there is anybody from Jewish Voice for Peace for wants to explain these quotes, go ahead, when the question period comes.  Yusuf al-Qaradawi is the recognized spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood.  During the events in Egypt in February, he spoke to a million adoring Muslims in Cairo.  And recall that the Muslim Brotherhood created Hamas, which is an organization adored by the MSA, the S — whatever it is, SJP, and the Jewish Voice for Peace.

Here’s what Qaradawi said — the last punishment of the Jews was carried out by Hitler.  Allah willing, next time, it will be at the hand of the believers — in other words, we Muslims will finish the job.  The founder and head of Hamas, Mahmoud al-Zahar, said, “There is no place for you Jews among us and you have no future among the nations of the world.  You are headed to annihilation.”  That’s Jews.

The speaker of the Gaza Parliament, the Gaza Parliament — Hamas, of course, is the government of Gaza — “Be certain that America is on its way to disappear.  Make us victorious over the infidel people.  Allah take hold of the Jews and their allies, Allah take hold of the Americans and their allies, Allah count them and kill them to the last one and don’t leave even one.”  That’s everybody in this room, in case you didn’t get the point.

Hamas is an enemy of all Americans.  Hamas is an enemy of all Jews.  These are — how do you describe these statements?  They’re the statements of Nazis.  So of course, the Muslim Students Association wants to make me take my words and, instead of saying Hamas are Nazis, say all Muslims are Nazis.  That’s the accusation being made against me at UC Santa Barbara, where I’m speaking in two weeks.  And it’s designed just like the attacks on me at this campus, to make people not listen to what I say.

Now, if these quotes are not quotes, you got a legitimate argument against me.  Unfortunately for all the progressives in this room, these are the facts.  And what the Daily Bruin wouldn’t let you read is also a fact.  There is no occupied Palestine.  The claim that the Jews — that Israel occupies Palestine is a lie.

(Applause)

That’s not an opinion; it’s a fact.  Because Israel was created on land that for 400 years — that’s longer than this country has existed — for 400 years previously, was land owned by the Turks.  And the Turks are not Arabs, and they’re certainly not Palestinians.

I got more news for you.  How many people under the age of 25 in this room know that, know what I just said?  That Israel was created — yeah.  Some education you’re all getting.  Land owned by the Turks.  There were other nations created out of the — why were the Turks allowing this to happen, you might ask?  Okay, they chose the wrong side in World War I — they lined up with the Germans, and they lost.  And one of the rules of war is when you lose, the victors get to redraw the map.  That’s just the way it works.

(Applause)

You may argue with that, right or wrong.  But here are the other nations that were created that way out of the Turkish Empire –  Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan.  And Jordan is 70 percent composed of the same people ethnically that live on the West Bank and in Gaza — in other words, Palestinian Arabs.

By the way, nobody even called Arabs Palestinians until 1964 — Israel was created in ’48.  If you said “Palestinian” in 1946, you were referring to Jews.  Because the Arabs –

(Applause)

Because the Arabs see themselves as one nation.  And they all speak the same language, and they basically have the same religion.  There are Christian Arabs, but they’re disappearing.  Why?  Because the Muslim Brotherhood and its offshoots — Hamas, the Muslims in the Middle East — are slaughtering Christians and driving them out.  Half — and this is true in countries like we liberated — Iraq has lost half its Christian population.  And they’re blowing up churches and killing them.  Infidels.

You can’t say what I’m saying without being attacked as a racist and an Islamophobe, even though everything I’ve said is a fact.  And you could even go to any encyclopedia and look it up.  Simple facts.

The Palestine Mandate — by the way, the word “Palestine” — the word “Palestine” is not an Arabic word.  It’s Latin.  It’s — the Romans gave the region around the Jordan the name “Palestine.”  Why?  Because they conquered the Jews.  The Jews had the very bad idea in 66 A.D., or C.E., to challenge the Roman Empire.  Not a good idea.  And they were crushed and decimated and scattered.

And the Romans, to humiliate them, gave their homeland, which is Judea and Samaria — how many people know where Judea and Samaria is located?  It’s the West Bank.  That is the homeland of the Jews, which they gave up in 1948 just to have slivers of land which were mainly desert, out of the Turkish Empire.  Turkish Empire.  Not Arab.  The Romans gave this the name — it’s Philistine, means Philistines, who were not Arabs.  The Arabs weren’t even in the area in 70 A.D./C.E.  They weren’t even there.

Now, it happens that the Palestine Mandate refers to a geographical region, not an ethnicity, not a people.  It was promised to the Jews as part of the Roman Empire that was going to be of the Turkish Empire that was going to be divided.  In 1922, Churchill signed away 80 percent of the Turkish land promised to the Jews and created the state of Jordan.  And yes, it was part of the British attempt to control the oil in the region.  Seventy percent of Jordan are Arabs from this Palestine region.  Jordan is not ruled by these people.  It’s ruled by a Hashemite minority.

Is there one call on the progressive Left or among the Muslim Students Association to liberate Jordan, for self-determination of Palestinians in Jordan?  No.  Because this is not about a state for Palestinians.  The war is about pushing the Jews into the sea.  Destroying the Jews.  That’s what it’s about.  And people who are supporting this are supporting a genocidal movement.

(Applause)

Now, I’m very confident that even though this is being videotaped, absolutely nothing that I say will be reported accurately on this campus, or on the Internet.  I will give you an example.

You can see me on the Internet.  A film was made by the Palestinian Club.  It was very interesting to me that the Palestinian Club at Brooklyn College — very upset.  They sat through my speech, but they were very upset by it.  But in the end, what did they say?  You want to lynch all Muslims.

You know, I always intersperse in my speech, which — I genuinely believe that Muslims as a whole — 1.5 billion of them — there are good Muslims and bad Muslims.  There are just good Jews and bad Jews.  I think that the religion of Islam has certain problems, like no separation of church and state.  But there are good people and bad people in any religion.

However, at UC Santa Barbara, the finance chair of the Student Activities Board, or whatever it is, who had wanted me to get zero funds to get there — oh, and I should’ve pointed this out — the students asked the Student Activities Board — and in order to have a speaker, it costs money to have this system.  They [need] system security, and generally have to pay honorarium [and trial] for the speaker.

The students here asked the activities board, or the student government, for less money than I get just from my honorarium, just as a normal fee.  They asked for $4,000.  They were given $400.  Why were they given $400, and not zero?  Well, because the law says that you can’t use student fees to advance a political cause, and you can’t deny them for political reasons.  That’s your old First Amendment.

Course, $400 is just as good as $0.  And yes, I am consulting my lawyers on this one.  Unfortunately, conservative students — this is changing, but not fast enough — are relatively passive.  And basically, they say to themselves — when I talked to the students, the same thing happened at UC Santa Barbara — I said, “Why did you ask for so little?”  I mean, they asked for $1,700.  They said, “Because we knew we wouldn’t get it.”  They’re victims.  This has got to change.  For the conservatives here, this mentality has to change.  You ask for the moon, and then you maybe get what you need.

(Applause)

So you have to ask yourself — so, they’re calling me a Nazi.  Oh, and they’re saying I said that all Muslims are Nazis.  Well, you heard me say it here, and what did I say?  I didn’t say all Muslims are Nazis.  I said Hamas is a Nazi party.  I said people who want to exterminate the Jews, and say so, are Nazis!  They’re worse than Nazis!  Because the Nazis, Hitler, hid the Final Solution from the German people.  Because he thought they were too civilized and decent.

Ahmadinejad shouts it from the rooftops — kill the Jews, wipe Americans and Jews off the face of the earth.  And Hamas applauds.  And the Muslim Students Association here, and the Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace praise Hamas as freedom fighters!  Yes, free the earth of Jews!  That’s what they’re about.

So you will see also — you can see on the Internet a film that was made by the Palestine Club at Brooklyn College when I spoke there, and severely edited and cut, so that you see me saying conclusions without ever hearing what I had to say to lead up to the conclusion.

So here’s what I have to say to lead up to one of the conclusions they have there.  You have to ask yourself, how can a progressive, let alone a progressive Jew, who thinks of themselves as championing and defending gays, women — who’s the greatest oppressor of women in the world today?  It’s Islam!  Wake up!  Women are chattel!  They’re slaves!

In Saudi Arabia, if you’re in the elite, and you’re a female, you can’t drive!  You can’t appear on a street as a woman without an escort, or they’ll stone you to death!  If you’re an adolescent girl, 12, 13, you’re going to have your clitoris sliced off without an anesthetic!  How do I know that?  I read it in the New York Times.  Not exactly a conservative paper.

At the women’s studies department here, everywhere — total silence.  I have watched feminists on TV defend — I still can’t believe I saw this.  They had Tariq Ramadan on TV, who is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna, the Nazi founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, who comes off as such a sophisticated intellectual.  A big campaign by the American Association of University Professors to get the ban on him lifted.  The State Department had banned him from coming to this country because he’s involved with terrorism organizations.

But the AAUP and, I’m sure, the enlightened people on the UCLA faculty all petitioned that he should come, and he came.  And he was asked, you know, if he was against stoning, women stoned, because they’re accused of fornicating.  And he said he would like to see a moratorium on stoning.  A moratorium, yeah.

And I saw a feminist.  Her name is Joan Wallach Scott, and she’s a professor at the Institute for Advanced Study — what a disgrace — at Princeton — leading feminist scholar, defending Tariq Ramadan and the moratorium on stoning.  You know, Trotsky once said — he said that Stalinism was a perfect theory for gluing up the brain.  And I will say that about progressivism.

So what I said at Brooklyn College is this.  I said — how is it possible that people who think of themselves as enlightened and progressive, and for equality of women and blacks and so forth — how is it that they can support Hamas?  How is it that they can support Palestinians who are calling for the — push the Jews into the sea and kill them?

And I said, well, one of the reasons is they probably think — because I am so far removed.  I mean, I spent, you know, the first 35 years of my life in the Left.  But I cannot imagine, as a leftist, supporting Hamas.  But here’s what I came up with.  Well, the Israelis are oppressing them, so it kind of drives them out of their mind a little bit.  And we have to, you know, cut them some slack on that.

And you actually hear — you know, you hear leftists defend suicide bombing as a desperation — they have no other choice.  Really?

(Laughter)

What I said was this — people have been oppressed for thousands of years, horribly oppressed.  Enslaved.  Massacred.  And yet, in thousands of years of recorded history, there has never before, never, been a people that has strapped bombs onto its own children, told them to go ahead and blow up other children.  And if you do, you’re going to go to heaven.  And if you’re lucky enough to be male, you’re going to get 72 virgins.  That is sick.  That’s a sick death cult is what –

(Applause)

Well, every one of you who applauded qualifies to be on the Internet, as I am — Horowitz spreading hatred at Brooklyn College.  Because all they show me saying is, “That’s sick, a sick culture,” which it is.

(Laughter)

I think part of the problem here, and part of it certainly on this campus, is that Jews are not standing up for themselves the way they need to.

(Applause)

I offered to debate them ahead of the Rabbi who runs Hillel (inaudible) I was once on a TV show — I was on the panel with him, I actually saw him.  I — of course, he won’t debate me.  As I said, I mean, the Left calls you names because they really can’t handle the argument, let alone the truth.

It’s disgraceful that the Jewish community on this campus, and a progressive community on — well, the progressive community is collusive in this — but that people who think of themselves as enlightened have not said that the Apartheid Wall, the Apartheid Wall, is a violation of the very spirit that the University of California presents to its donors and the parents, [as] standing up for.  What kind of respect is it to call a people, and a nation, which is the most tolerant — along with the United States, the two most tolerant societies on the face of the earth, bar none — can be defamed with the lies on this wall?

Well, by the way, there’s a big map on the wall of occupied Palestine.  And I say this is a Hamas map.  I saw it at UC San Diego, I’ve seen it in books supporting the Gaza Flotilla, which was designed to break a blockade to keep Hamas from getting more weapons.  Shows Palestine in 1946 as Palestine, which is all of Israel.  There was no Palestine in 1946.  There was the Turkish Empire, which was — anyway.

I don’t know — you’ve been a very good audience, so I don’t even know if there are progressives around who will, but I’d like to hear from them, on answering this question.

Now, if I may digress, but [come back] — since the issue is intellectual terrorism.  Now, the threat I got was from the African American Students Union.  Why was I being threatened?  Well, there’s a leaflet distributed here.  And I’m quoted — and this is something I did say — I said, “As a result of America’s efforts to realize the ideals of equality and freedom, blacks in America are now the freest and richest black people anywhere on the face of the earth, including all of the nations that are ruled by blacks.”

And the students — and I forgive students for making these kind of errors; I don’t forgive their professors.  I don’t — the professors, the leftist professors, are totally derelict in their professional responsibility.  Contrary to the propaganda that’s put out by the Left, I have never called for the firing of a single leftist professor.  I defended Ward Churchill, even though I think he should never have been hired.

I’m a defender of academic freedom.  But I will not forgive faculty for not showing students, teaching them how to think.  You’re not in a university to be told what to think.  When your professor gives you a political speech, that professor needs to be disciplined or removed from the classroom.

(Applause)

Let me tell you that students who suffer the most are the liberal students.  Look, the reason is very simple — they’re never challenged.  They don’t learn how to think.  If you’re a conservative student on this or any campus and you open your mouth, you’d better know how to defend yourself.  Because you’re going to be attacked by your professor and most of the class.

When I went to college, and I had professors — and they would defend whatever position was the opposite of what the students were defending, to teach them how to argue.  You’re in a university to learn how to think, how to assemble evidence.  If you read — and compose an argument.  If you read what I actually said — this was part of my campaign 10 years ago, where I first became notorious.  Well, the Left did me a favor — it raised my speaking fee.

(Laughter)

I was against reparations, not because I’m against reparations for slaves but because there are no slaves anymore.  And a campaign for reparations means that you are accusing everybody who is not a descent of slaves of being complicit in slavery and owing you money.  So that meant you had to tell a Hispanic — who’s been in the country for maybe 10 years, who’s trying to learn English and put bread on the table for his children — that he’s responsible for slavery.

Eighty percent of the population of Americans are descended from immigrants who came here after the 1880s, after slavery.  And of the people who have ancestors before that, a lot of them have ancestors who died trying to defeat the South and free blacks from slavery.

So I was against it also because it isolated — Malcolm X made my generation say “black” — African Americans.  Whatever.  These names are, to me, just a way of keeping people walking on eggshells, rather than reality.  It was going to isolate African Americans from all other Americans.  People were going to be resentful.  And if a program was needed for inner-city African Americans who are suffering, who’s going to oppose it if it works?  You know, Bush had the No Child Left Behind program.  I mean, who opposes Head Start, which unfortunately doesn’t work?  But everybody thinks it works, so everybody supports it.

And in the end, I was appealing to black students — because these ads were taken out in college papers — don’t give up your American heritage.  This is to — you know, if you see America as the oppressor nation, you give up some — black people were almost the first people to come here.  So recognize there’s been a great success story.

Now, in this little leaflet, it suggests that I’m claiming that the government is responsible for helping — you know, for all the improvement in the black community.  Look, I’m a conservative.  Government is what created slavery.  It’s not going to create solutions.

(Applause)

It’s just that the founders here created a system of incredible opportunity for people.  And black people, against all odds and with great burdens, have had tremendous achievements.  But the Left wants to hide the achievements.  I got a threat for saying black people in America are successful!

(Laughter)

That don’t make any sense.  I wish there were professors here — some people have a hard time hearing the truth — I wish there were professors here who would do their jobs.

Well, I think I’ve exhausted my subject here.  Like I say, I’m surprised — you’ve been a very civil audience.  I immediately change my view of UCLA students.

(Applause)

And I’m really, really happy to do so.  Because I enjoy a good intellectual discussion.  I don’t enjoy screaming.

All right.  I’m going to open the — thank you very much, and I’ll open the mic for questions.

(Applause)

Unidentified Speaker: All right.  We’re going to have two of our members, one in the front of each passageway here — they’re going to hold the mics.  In the interest of allowing everyone who wants to see a chance to speak, we ask that you keep your questions concise, and that they do in fact end in a question mark.

(Laughter)

Unidentified Speaker: Feel free to come to the mic.  Or –

Unidentified Audience Member: So, I agree with you when you say that free speech is extremely important, even if it’s speech that you don’t agree with, or minority opinion, or something like that.  But I was wondering how you reconcile the fact that you’re opposed to the Israel Apartheid Wall, for example, even being there.  But that’s an expression of free speech that you disagree with.  Your response to the Apartheid Wall is obviously an expression of opinion that you would disagree with and find offensive.  So why are you opposed to their expression of it?

David Horowitz Well, I’m — it’s a good question.  It’s a fair question.

(Applause)

David Horowitz: I was actually — supported — I want to see the principle of respect for the other implemented across the board.  Now, I do think that there’s a conflict between the principles of diversity, in which people are forced to follow what you might call the politically correct line as far as any group is concerned; and freedom of speech.

I think — but we’re in a university.  And a university is like a rare four years that you have to elevate your thought, to really — to learn an elevated discourse.  And I’m not for calling the campus police to tear down the Apartheid Wall, as offensive as it may be.  But I would like to see the university community express the same kind of distaste for the Apartheid Wall as they would for a noose put on a professor’s door, as happened at Columbia, where they [veritably] shut the university down over it.

Now, if you want to defend nooses on professors’ doors — black professors, of course — all right.  I think civility is an important value.  I actually think — I don’t think there’s any way to undo this.  But in 1964, there was a so-called free speech movement on the Berkeley campus.  Because it was organized by leftists, it really wasn’t about free speech.  What it was about was the right to conduct political activities on campus — recruit for political organizations, for example.  The university capitulated and, I think, opened a Pandora’s box that we can’t close.

The university should not be, you know, like — I don’t know — the Hannity & Colmes show.  It’s a university.  So if people feel — if Palestinian students on this campus feel, you know, that the Palestinians are oppressed, there should be a civil way to express that, rather than have a hate-filled wall confronting students when they’re walking through the quad, if you have a quad here.  You do [right there].

So either way — that’s a good question.  But I have not — I didn’t call for the — I’ve just characterized the wall.  What you do about it is another matter.  I do think if faculty and the student government here expressed their displeasure with that kind of expression — look, when I submit an ad to the Daily Bruin, they put me through the wringer.  I’m not allowed to say — the editor started with — my ad was called “The Palestinian Case Against Israel is a Genocidal Lie.”  He said you can’t generalize about Palestinian.  So he says — you got to take that out.

And then, if I use the word “Arab” — it’s like saying — if you say “Americans celebrated” or “were glad to see Osama bin Laden dead” — well, there are a lot of Americans that [weren’t] glad, like Noam Chomsky.  But would you — if you were the editor of — what I’m saying is I’m censored.  And I don’t see the same attitude displayed towards other people.  I mean, I’m willing to dance with the censor.  I changed it.  I said, “The Case Against Israel Is Based on a Genocidal Lie.”  I’m willing to — and I changed “Arab” to “Arab states.”  Israel was not attacked by Arabs; it was attacked by Arab states.  Okay?  So –

Unidentified Audience Member: Can I ask –

David Horowitz: Yes.

Unidentified Audience Member: — give you a quick response to that?  But isn’t “genocidal,” as you said, more so a charged word than “apartheid?”  And –

David Horowitz: Is what?

Unidentified Audience Member: Isn’t “genocidal,” your word (inaudible) charged — isn’t “genocidal” at least as charged a word as “apartheid?”

David Horowitz: Sure.

Unidentified Audience Member: So are you advocating that they censor the other people as much as they censor –

David Horowitz: You know, look, like I said — if there’s a set of rules, I’ll abide by them.  Look, a war is being conducted against Israel on this campus, and against Jews on this campus.  That’s my view of it.  So I’m in the war.  And I will fight fire with fire.  And I wish the Jewish organizations on this campus — which didn’t support my wall and didn’t support my speech here — would do so.  I’d like them to fight.  However, I would really like to see the university enforce rules of civility.

You have this on — you know, if you go on the Web, and if you’re on academic websites, they never allow you to personalize an attack, and so forth and so on — there are rules.  And it changes the nature of the discourse.  If this is the place where people are supposed to learn, the emotional noise is destructive to learning.  I agree with you.  I mean, if that’s your position.  All right.  We can talk later.

Unidentified Speaker: If you have a question, feel free to line up (inaudible) two mics here.

Unidentified Audience Member: Hi, Mr. Horowitz.

David Horowitz: Oh, there you are.

Unidentified Audience Member: [Good].  I’m hoping that you could clarify something because they’re both in the same area.  The majority of the black people and the majority of the Jews in this country seem to be on the left.  Now, you went full-circle, so maybe you can shed some light on –

David Horowitz: I only went half-circle.

Unidentified Audience Member: Well, whatever circle you went — you went from one side to the other.  And so perhaps you can shed some light.  Now, I do know some conservatives.  And it made sense to me that they would be conservative.  But for the most part, they aren’t.

David Horowitz: Those are two different, large questions.  I introduced — had the privilege of introducing Norman Podhoretz at the Skirball Center for his last book, and thanked him for writing it.  Because it’s called “Why Are Jews Liberal?”  And I said, Well, now I don’t have to answer that question anymore.

(Laughter)

I don’t think I can answer that in a short enough time for this evening, particularly since you put two groups in there.

I will say that from my point of view — now, I marched in my first civil rights march in 1948, believe it or not, which is more than probably the parents of the students in this room — longer ago than they were born.  And it’s always been close to my heart, the civil rights struggle.

And I think one of the greatest obstacles for the black community to advance is that it’s a captive of the political Left.  And you can see it in this, and (inaudible) young woman who walked out.  I mean, her mind is closed; she can’t handle — you know, she should’ve stayed and expressed her point of view, and I would’ve answered her.  I think it’s just a terrible burden on the black community that it’s so monolithic.  And I’m hoping that will change.  And I think it will.  I mean, we now — Republicans have elected several black congressmen, including the charismatic Alan West.

(Applause)

[You all] will have an opportunity, if you want to hear Alan West.  Because we’re hosting him on July 19th.  Just follow that on our website, and come and enjoy it.

So, you know, hopefully, that will change.  Perhaps the Jewish community will wake up, now that its back’s to the wall.

J. Mark Campbell: How you doing, David?  My name is J. Mark Campbell.  I’m with the UnitedWest.org, Tom Trento’s group.  And we’re actually streaming live on the Internet to thousands of people, not just in this small room.  And there’s hundreds of Tea Party members — there’s hundreds of Tea Party members actually wanting to know — should they be concerned about the Sharia Islamic issue?  Why, if so?  And why not?

David Horowitz: Yeah, I’d just do that briefly.

It’s a mistake to see terrorism as the only threat.  The Muslim Brotherhood created — or devised a plan for, in their words, destroying the American civilization, which was revealed.  The FBI captured these documents at the Holy Land Foundation Trial.  And what the documents said is that we have to create institutions within American society to carry out this mission.  The terror is an intimidation.  But the real mission is carried out by these organizations.

The first one created — the Muslim Students Association.  The second — and then CAIR, Muslim American Society, Islamic Society of North America.  And then, that’s where the serious threat is.

J. Mark Campbell: So why should the Tea Party groups be concerned with the Sharia Islamic issue?

David Horowitz: What — why?

J. Mark Campbell: Why should the Tea Party groups be concerned with the –

David Horowitz: Well, the first thing is education.  People don’t know.  People don’t know.  I mean, that’s why they hate me.  That’s why all this effort to shut me down or to make people not listen to me is because of that simple fact.  The Muslim Students Association is the Muslim Brotherhood.  And they want to create an Islamic — global Islamic society.  And that means everybody in this room who doesn’t toe the line of whoever the — you know, whoever controls the caliphate is an infidel and is going to be a second-class citizen or a dead one.

J. Mark Campbell: Thank you.

Unidentified Audience Member: I don’t mince any words, so — when the Islamofascist terrorists commit those disgusting acts of murder against my fellow Jews, do they represent — are they giving Islam a bad name?  Or are they representing the real teachings of Mohammad?

David Horowitz: The $64,000 question.  Look –

Unidentified Audience Member: When Mohammad –

David Horowitz: After 9/11 — I’ll answer it as best I can.  The question is, of course, are there any moderate Muslims?  My quick answer is — I want to see them.  I want to see them defending the Jews.  There are Jews –

(Applause)

And there are Jews all over Israel and the United States defending the rights of the Palestinians.  Where are the Palestinians defending the rights of the Jews?

(Applause)

Second, after 9/11, there were surveys done in the Muslim world, by Al Jazeera and other similar institutions, to see how many people thought that this mass murderer who struck a blow at the infidel capital was a hero to them.  And the responses varied between 10 percent and 50 percent.  That’s between 150 million Muslims and 750 million.

So I think that the Muslim world is a problem.  And people who don’t recognize that, or who call somebody like myself an Islamophobe for even raising it, are just in denial.  Just a form of denial.  There were good Germans.  But in the end, they didn’t make a damn’s worth of difference.

Yes?

Unidentified Audience Member: Good evening.  So I noticed that you briefly touched on the statement that you made that was posted on your site that you mentioned earlier.  And then you began to digress and talk about our professors, and how they need to take accountability for what they teach us.

But I wanted to know if you can clarify what you would define as equality and freedom.  Because this is a pretty powerful statement, and you didn’t really explain your definition of what equality is and freedom is.  Because according to me — I work in the black communities all the time.  And I’m not seeing equality and freedom, as far as the resources with schools and jobs in these neighborhoods.  So I could really disagree with this [statement].  So I just wanted to know what you define as equality and freedom.

(Applause)

David Horowitz: Okay.  Can I answer the question?  Do you vote Democrat?

Unidentified Audience Member: Excuse me?

David Horowitz: Do you vote for the Democratic Party?

Unidentified Audience Member: Yes, I do.

David Horowitz: You do?  Are you aware that every major inner city where these problems exist, where the schools are being — are destroying the lives of black children — every single one of them — whether it’s New York, South Central LA, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Harlem, St. Louis — every one is 100 percent controlled by the Democratic Party.  The school boards, the school districts, the city councils — 100 percent controlled by the Democratic Party –

(Applause)

David Horowitz: — and have been –

Unidentified Audience Member: (Inaudible) what you’re defining as equality and freedom, that –

David Horowitz: Well, when you say they’re concerned about deteriorating schools.  And I’m telling you — who’s responsible?  And you vote for them.  So you have to look at your commitments.

I didn’t say that the inner city schools are equal.  I would be the last person to say that.  I’ve talked myself blue in the face, talking — I mean, this is a terrible crime that is being committed against black and Hispanic children.  Because the Democratic Party is running the schools as a jobs program.  It’s the teacher unions who — these teachers — they have contracts where they work six hours a day, they have four months paid vacation.  They get raises, even if they don’t teach the kids.  Who in the — and they have lifetime jobs — who else in our society has that?  That is a crime against black people.  But until black people will look towards the Republican Party and get into it, and fight, they’re never going to get out of this hole.

(Applause)

So, you know, I don’t think people are equal in this society.  I mean, you know, but the question isn’t whether there’s an opportunity to succeed.  You know, there’s never been a Jewish President, but there is a black President.  So you should celebrate the enormous strides that the black community has made, and then look at who’s standing on your necks.  It’s the Democratic Party and the Left, teaching you.

(Applause)

Gary Falster: Good evening.  My name’s [Gary Falster], and I’m a teacher at UC Ervine.

David Horowitz: I know who you are.

(Laughter)

Gary Falster: As you know, UCI has the most aggressive Muslim Student union in the country, and it was the scene of the disruption of the [Orange State Show] last year.  Since then, last year and this year, at Israel Apartheid Week, the community has said enough is enough, and they are fighting back.  We have Israel Apartheid Week going on right now, as we speak.  The community is coming out, in spite of the objections of most of the major Jewish organizations, who want to sweep it under the rug.  And we’re actually — we’re whipping their butts.  I’m telling you the truth, we’re whipping their butts.

(Applause)

Gary Falster: So my question is — I want to ask you about the Olive Tree Initiative, which was originated at UCLA and is now spreading to UCLA, Santa Cruz and the other UC campuses.  For those of you don’t know, this is a program where Jewish, Muslim and Christian students are taken to Israel and the West Bank and exposed to people from both sides of the controversy.  It’s our opinion that this program is badly slanted in favor of the Palestinian narrative.  Many of these people they meet with are in the International Solidarity Movement.  And that one’s just come off [of] 2009 that the group met with a leader of Hamas of the West Bank.  I’d like to get your reaction, your (inaudible) –

David Horowitz: Well, my view of the Orange County Federation, and all the Jewish organizations like Hillel that are involved in this, is that they’re exactly parallel to the [yumerots] in the ‘30s and ‘40s who organized the Jewish community to go its deaths in the death camps.  The Nazis never could’ve killed six million Jews if they didn’t have these Jewish councils organizing the Jews to go peacefully to slaughter.

These people are in serious, serious denial.  And, you know, you have to — I mean, it’s a burden of the Jewish community.  Because for 2,000 years, we had to live in other people’s societies as a — without power, at their mercy.  And so we developed an appeasement mentality.  And that’s what this is is an appeasement mentality.

Jews lived in ghettos for thousands of years.  They were not like the ghettos we refer to; they were places where you couldn’t leave legally.  Anyway, I’m getting — you know, this is a fight that I — that my center has now taken up, and we’re going to carry it on within the Jewish community.  There are members of Jewish organizations here who did not support this speech, not because they disagreed with it but because they were intimidated by the Muslim Students Association and the Students for Justice in Palestine.  You cannot be free unless you’re willing to stand up for yourself.

Go ahead.

Unidentified Speaker: And we have time for two more questions.

David Horowitz: Go ahead.

Unidentified Audience Member: You had addressed that the black community can expand, and it can get better, if we get a Republican in these communities.  But how can we bring this — address this to our people if the Bush Administration will allow Republicans to run our nation, and he couldn’t even [hold our nation now] (inaudible).  So how can we expect our community needs to –

David Horowitz: Sure.

Unidentified Audience Member: — trust the Republican to hold down their own –

David Horowitz: I never in my life have said trust a politician.

Unidentified Audience Member: No, no, (inaudible) trust.  But, wait a minute — I think (inaudible) question –

David Horowitz: I said we need a two-party system.  You need to get the — you need to make the Democrats nervous –

Unidentified Audience Member: That’s not what you said.  You said bring a Republican in — if we get the Democrats out and bring in Republican –

David Horowitz: More [to] the other party.

Unidentified Audience Member: — how can we — how do we [matter]?

David Horowitz: Well, you need two parties.  You need to be — you will gain power if the Democrats think you will actually vote for a Republican.  That’s just the way politics works.  And if you have a figure like Alan West — I mean, if you can find a black Republican or a white Republican who will really fight your fight, then you should support them.

Don’t allow the Democratic Party to own you.  The Democratic Party owns the black community.  And that’s why it can walk all over it.  That’s a problem.  You know, I’m just — actually, look, you’re a student — I’m just trying to get you to think.

Unidentified Audience Member: No, I respect –

David Horowitz: Instead of — you know, I mean, I understand this.  But if you read the whole statement I made, it was that black people should embrace America.  Because you’re like — you came here in –

Unidentified Audience Member: How –

David Horowitz: — 1607, probably.  I don’t know, when the first slaves were brought –

Unidentified Audience Member: How can we — how can we embrace — yes, you’re saying black people should embrace America.  But how can we embrace America when we have black people — most of our black people are struggling?  We can go to a black person’s neighborhood and see the ghetto, and we can go to a white person’s neighborhood and see how (inaudible) is.  But how can we embrace that if we’re struggling?  Like we’re struggling –

David Horowitz: Well –

Unidentified Audience Member: How do we embrace that?  How do we (inaudible)?

David Horowitz: You’re ignoring — most — 49 percent of the black community is in the middle class.  There are lots of rich black Americans, and very powerful black Americans.  There are whole cities run by black people.  If there’s a problem — and I’ll tell you, the Philadelphia schools — they’re terrible.  But they’re run by black people.  So, you know, it’s a more complex problem.  But you begin by identifying as Americans, and not feeling — you know, this — it’s like America’s your enemy.  That’s not helpful to you.

Unidentified Audience Member: (Inaudible) is our enemy.

David Horowitz: Anyway –

Unidentified Audience Member: — America’s our enemy, you think that we should embrace America –

Unidentified Speaker: We’re going to do one –

David Horowitz: No, you’re saying America’s your enemy, and that is self-defeating.  Anyway, I’d love to talk longer –

Unidentified Audience Member: — what’s your game plan?  (inaudible) the problem, do you have an action [of] plan, like the –

David Horowitz: Sure.

Unidentified Audience Member: — problem?

David Horowitz: Sure.  The first thing is you should — and we’re going to stop with this, because we have too many — I got to take one more question, and then you can talk to me afterwards.

What you need to do is — the black children and Hispanic children — in this state, it’s mainly Hispanic children, but black children as well — are being oppressed by the teacher unions and the school system.  So you have to take away their power.  And the way to do it would be to create — to voucherize the entire educational system.

(Applause)

Right up, in my view, through the university level.  Instead of the education dollars that the government collects going to the bureaucracies that are not serving the community, they should go directly to the parents.  And the parents will then be able to find the school.  So every parent in the state who has a child should get $15,000 per child or — I think that’s probably the per-pupil cost.  Then you can create schools that would teach your children.

And the only people proposing this that I know of are Republicans.  But Republicans, unfortunately — they’re like Jews in this — they propose these little, modest programs thinking that the teacher unions, [who are] the enemies of the children — that the Democratic Party will accept it if it’s reasonable and small.  It needs to be big.  Because it needs to wake up black parents, Hispanic parents, the kids — the parents of the kids in these schools.

You know, I tried to actually persuade Bush to do $100 billion program like this, and it fell on deaf ears.  Because that’s — you Republicans are a very reasonable lot.

Anyway, I’d love to talk to you more.  You know, you can always e-mail me.  I’ll give you my e-mail afterwards.  But you need to read — do you know the name Thomas Sowell?

(Applause)

David Horowitz: No.  Yeah, yeah, yeah — I’m asking the students because I know who their teachers are.  Thomas Sowell is a very great and famous black economist, who happens to be a conservative.  He’s at the Hoover Institution.  If you read his books, or Walter Williams’ books, you would understand more the root out of this problem, the path out of it.

But never trust an individual politician, please.  You got to be there and keep them honest.

Yeah, one more.  This has gone on –

Unidentified Audience Member: Thank you for coming tonight.

My question — in Andrew Breitbart’s new book, he talked about Clarence Thomas, or the Clarence Thomas hearings, and how it was a major event for his transition from the Left.  And I was wondering if you had a similar transition from the progressive movement.  And how do we get people to hear both sides, and –

David Horowitz: Too many questions.  I’ll answer just in a nutshell.

I was a — when I was a radical, I got involved, through a Hollywood producer, with the Black Panther Party.  I raised a great amount of money — it was $150,000 in those days, but today it would be many times that — and bought a church to use as the Black Panthers’ school.  And what I didn’t realize was that the Black Panther Party was a criminal street gang with progressive covering.  And they murdered the woman that I recruited to keep the books of the school.  And that woke me up, really stopped me from going on in my — you know, it knocked me off the white horse I was on.

Anyway, that was my turning point.  I wrote a book, “Radical Son,” for anybody interested, about this.

Anyway, you can — I mean, it’s a real surprise to me.  When I walked in here, I thought, we’re going to have a really tough evening.  Shows you that appearances can be deceptive.  You know, or maybe I’m just paranoid from all of the attacks on my speech.  You know, when you arrive, and you know you’ve been attacked for weeks, and there are threats, it affects –

Unidentified Speaker: Down with Horowitz.

(Laughter)

David Horowitz: Thank you, David.

Anyway, thank you all for coming.  You’ve been great.

(Applause)