Middle Eastern Moment of Truth

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Israel is right, then, to urge the U.S. and other countries to stop pressuring Mubarak and appreciate the relative moderation of his regime—compared to much worse alternatives. Still, for Israel, the crisis can only have a deeply sobering effect.

It was with the advent of formal Israeli-Egyptian peace that the term “Arab-Israeli conflict” came to be replaced by the term “peace process.” The tripartite signing of the treaty by the Israeli, Egyptian, and American heads of government was seen by many in the West—and particularly in Israel—as having near-messianic significance. The quest for similar consummations with the Palestinians and Syria—supposed to lead to Israel’s ultimate acceptance by the Middle East—became a tremendous political and academic obsession and industry.

In recent years it has been much harder for Israelis to sustain such visions. The “process” with the Palestinians has led to deadlock at best and terror at worst. Another former regional ally, Turkey, has turned openly hostile under Islamist rule, while Lebanon sinks further into Hezbollah’s grip. The specter of Egypt becoming, again, a frontline country—necessitating a huge and costly reorientation of Israel’s military deployment—haunts Israelis who understand that the only strong, organized force among the regime’s opponents, whatever crowds may be roiling in the streets of Cairo, Suez, and Alexandria, are the Islamists.

But the instability of the region, the fragility of “peace” as a goal, has implications beyond Israel. As Aluf Benn wrote on Monday in a follow-up article:

When Obama and his advisers look at a map of the region, they see only one state they can count on: Israel. The regime is stable, and support for America is well-entrenched. Obama may dislike Netanyahu and his policy toward the Palestinians, but after losing his allies in Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt, and with the uneasiness gripping his friends in Jordan and the Gulf, Washington can’t afford to be choosy.

Egypt may not be lost yet. If it is, Israel will stand as the one strong horse in the region aligned with the West against the radicals.

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  • Chezwick_Mac

    1) The longer this revolution plays out, the more radical it will become.

    2) If the Generals refuse to oust Mubarak, there is the growing danger of a coup by Colonels and other junior officers, who will point the new regime in a much more radical direction (sooner, rather than later).

    3) Any regime-change will necessitate the eventual emergence of a strongman; the prevailing culture in that part of the world militates against collective leadership.

    4) Even if the transition is smooth and relatively bloodless, don't buy into the congratulations from around the world for Egypt's joining of the democratic fold. Whatever exercise in democracy the Egyptians partake in, it will likely be short-lived.

    5) Israel best prepare for the worst; for that matter, so should the West.

    • scum

      Not exactly. Sure, the storm clouds beckon, and the West begins to understand the long-term security implications of supporting useless dictatorships in the Arab world while their populations go hungry. But there's a key issue in Israel's favor not factored in by the 'Davids' (David Hornick and David Horowitz): It's extremely unlikely that the U.S. will reduce its support for Israel (political/military/economic); indeed you can expect to see a great deal MORE resources being poured into the Netanyahu state.

  • imnokuffar

    If I was an Israeli or a Jew anywhere in the world I would be pissing my pants or preparing for action. Obama and the rest of the scum that go to make up the governments of the west have portrayed this "revolution" as one that is democratic. Muslims don't like democracy and don't like Jews or Kuffar.

    A clash of monumental proportions is in the offing both in Europe and in the rest of the world.

    Thank god we have nukes.

    • scum

      you're already planning your genocide? Though you would have known better. Jeeesus Christ, how ridiculous.

      • imnokuffar

        .Its not us planning genocide, its them. They have Nukes as well. How many more times must it be said, "Islam is not a race". The Muslims want to take over the west and anything else that they can – they have stated it many times and are acting on it by outbreeding us, economic sabotage, terrorism and subversion of our political systems.

        They are ably assisted in this by our political elites who long ago sold us down the river and the MSM.

        Has it occured to you what will happen if the Muslim Brotherhood takes over Egypt ?

  • Amused

    So , what else is new this day ? Dot he Egyptians ,as a people hate Israel anytheless or more today than yesterday ? Of course not . Is not Israel prepared for any scenario ? In Fact HAS been preparesdc for any scenario. What ? Has it been a "secret " that Mubarak has kept a boot heel on the muslim brotherhood basically tothe end of maintaining his own power than any concern for Israel…..we got lip service for 1.3 billion a year .
    NEWSFLASH -for the author , Israel IS suirrounded by a sea of hate ..and has been .What people fail to recognize is , IS THAT NOTHING OBAMA WILL OR WILL NOT DO , ANYTHING THE EGYPTIANS WILL OR WILL NOT DO , will deter Isael from it's prime objective – survival and security of its borders .NOR DOES ISRAEL NEED APPROVAL FROM ANY US ADMIN . So before the spin goes out of conrol for obvious ideological/political reasons , revisit the reality for the past five decades or so .

    • ziontruth

      Unfortunately there are consequences to this. For the past thirty years, Israel has cut down its military expenditures in its consideration that Egypt is out of the sphere of hostile states. To confront the coming scenario that Egypt should be once again in that sphere, military expenditure will have to be adjusted accordingly, with all the fiscal headache that entails.

  • muchiboy

    "When Obama and his advisers look at a map of the region, they see only one state they can count on: Israel. The regime is stable, and support for America is well-entrenched. Obama may dislike Netanyahu and his policy toward the Palestinians, but after losing his allies in Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt, and with the uneasiness gripping his friends in Jordan and the Gulf, Washington can’t afford to be choosy."

    Perhaps,but there is a terrible moral price to be paid for backing a state that exists by way of heinous human rights abuses and crimes against humanity and the Palestinians.I guess if everyone sleeps at night then it's OK.I just think Americans and Jews are better then that,though they have yet to prove it to the Palestinian people.muchiboy

    • bostonian

      How about if arabs try to prove something, for example that they love their kids more than hate jews?

    • stern

      muchiboy, you are overstepping, by far, the line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Kindly take your racist, hate-spewing rhetoric somewhere else.

    • MixMChess

      "Perhaps,but there is a terrible moral price to be paid for backing a state that exists by way of heinous human rights abuses and crimes against humanity and the Palestinians"

      Israel does not exist at the expense of the Palestinians and has never engaged in human rights abuses or crimes against the Palestinians.

      That said, what about the moral price of supporting the incredibly immoral Palestinians? The Hamas charter calls for the genocide of Jews among other "infidels" (Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc.). The PA regularly inculcates its children with xenophobia and publishes textbooks which encourage children to "kill the Jews." The Palestinians oppress women rights, torture animals and declared homosexuality illegal.

      Perhaps muchiboy, its time that you took an honest look at your own warped moral character. I am sure you can sleep well at night with your white hood pulled over your head and your red and black swastika flag wrapped around your back.

    • aspacia

      How about the huge human rights abuses against Christians and women in the Muslim world. Get Real Hypocrite.

      • flaedo

        l am rather angry about the ongoing killing of Christians in some Muslim countries. Muslims should not be allowed into Western countries until they stop killing Christians. l am over the Palestinians whining about how bad they have it. l am over the Muslims whining about how bad they have it. These people lack civilised virtues and should be shunned. They are not entitled to join the broader human race whilst they continue to engage in deplorable behaviour everywhere. ln fact lslam cannot be redeemed. There is no hope for the West while it continues to treat with Muslims as equals or deserving of the outstretched hand of friendship.

        • http://www.19.org Edip Yuksel

          Of course those who attacked the Christian church in Egypt were cowards and despicable people. USA-Inc's soldiers, supported by evilgelical warmongers, just killed more than a MILLION sunni and shiite people in Iraq alone and you have the audacity to blame Muslims for the killing. The same for your Crusaders who have been killing people all around the world in the name of the biggest lie: promoting democracy and human rights!


    • EVAbeliever

      lessiboy is a known anti-Semitic cockroach that regularly spews forth lies. There is NO SUCH ENTITY as "Palestinian". There NEVER was an ARAB Palestine. No culture, no flag, no national anthem. Nothing! To claim human rights violations against Arabs in Israel where Israeli-Arabs are able to vote and be members of the Knesset and not make similar claims against Arab countries where Arab citizens have ZERO rights is hypocritical. According to lessiboy, not allowing Arab suicide bombers free access into Israel is a human rights violation and indicative of an occupation. As if non Israelis have the right to enter Israel freely. As if there are no customs agents in EVERY country that require visitors to stand in line and pass muster before being allowed entrance. Only when Jews do it is it wrong. Moral price to be paid? Lessiboy: I sleep great at night knowing that Israel has the power to KILL every single Islamic fool should there be a need to. The fact that everyone knows that HAMAS pines for Israel's destruction and yet Israel allows for it to exist proves the superior moral fiber of the JEWISH nation of Israel. Obama is nothing but a fool and his butt-licking has done nothing to improve America's standing in the World. Take your sorry act elsewhere.

  • WildJew

    Isn't all this civility and bi-partisanship wonderful? Republicans leaders stand shoulder to shoulder with U.S. President Hussein who supports Muslim Brotherhood.

    Speaker Boehner: "I think President Obama has handled this tense situation, so far, pretty well." Senator Mitch McConnell: "I don't have any criticism of President Obama or Secretary of State Clinton at this point. I think we should speak with one voice in this crisis….."

    "Congressional leaders back 'one voice' approach to Egypt"

    "Congress has taken an unusually bipartisan approach toward the mounting crisis in Egypt, with House and Senate leaders standing behind the Obama administration's message that Egyptians should make an "orderly transition"……House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), one of the main voices for human rights on Capitol Hill, issued a statement of support for the Egyptian protesters who are demanding new and fair elections. Washington Post, Feb. 1, 2011.

    • davarino

      Just goes to show, you dont need foriegn relations knowledge or experience to be a congressman these days. Just get elected cause you are cool and dress well and can read from a teleprompter. I say the most important issue of our day is education, otherwise we are going to continue electing these pinheads.

      Most people I know dont know squat about what is happening in the world or in our own government, but they are up on what happened at the SAG awards.

      • WildJew

        This piece is well worth reading:

        It helps to explain the insanity on the left, but more importantly, the insanity on the right; my 'side'.

        • Paul

          Excellent article.

          “SO THERE we have it. The US policy towards Egypt is dictated by the irrational narcissism of two opposing sides to a policy debate that has nothing to do with reality.”

          In sum the problem with the Muslim world is that its full of Muslims.

          Muslims as defined by those who sincerely believe that the ravings and actions of a theiving mass murdering rapist should be emulated personally, the basis of their societies, and forced upon the rest of mankind.

  • Bewareofsmokescreens

    Do those who chose to deny Obama's anti-West background and went ahead and voted for him because of the color of his skin and his vague rhetoric even now realize that as president Obama is doing what his radical Left background suggested he would do if he were elected: weaken the West internally and externally, economically and militarily, and with the help of the derelict puppet main stream media put forth a U.S. presidential and U.S. State Department diversionary smokescreen scenario that in fact deals blows to the West and acceleration of the ascendency of repressive, murderous radical Islamic regimes? Obama's been consistent in dumping on the closest friends of the U.S. If he has a game plan, it would seem to be to strengthen the enemies of his friends and of the country whose constitution and people he swore to defend.

    • scum

      If he's so 'out of the mainstream', why does he have such a broad base of bi-partisan support for his handling of Egypt? Shows where the FPM is on the political spectrum: way off to side, under the category 'irrelevant'.

  • GKC

    "the "palestinians" are effectively the political and terrorist arms of the muslim b-hood. Their own race and co-religionists have abused them by keeping them in a land of make believe in order to hang them as an albatross around the Israelis neck.

    "….heinous human rights abuses and crimes against humanity and the Palestinians."

    You summed it up well. This is an accurate picture of the attitude and behavior of the arabs towards their own. There is humanity, and then there is the palestinians.

    • scum

      yea, especially the hundreds of thousands living in refugee camps. Shame on them for wanting to eat. Maybe Israel should use its secret cache of nukes and blow up the entire Middle East. FPM would love that, as it's about the only strategy I've seen suggested on this hilarious website.

      • MixMChess

        "yea, especially the hundreds of thousands living in refugee camps."

        Fewer than one-third of the registered Palestine refugees live in 59 recognized refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The other two-thirds of the registered refugees live in and around the cities and towns of the host countries, and in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, "often in the environs of official camps." The refugees who remain in camps are there only because the host Arab governments, Hamas and the Palestinian Authority keep them there.

        "Shame on them for wanting to eat."

        Good thing that Israel has provided millions of tons of aid to the Palestinians. In 2009 alone, more than 738,000 tons of food and supplies entered Gaza. In the first quarter of 2010 (January-March), 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred in 3,676 trucks to Gaza: 48,000 tons of FOOD products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; 553 tons of milk powder and baby food. In a typical week the IDF coordinates the transfer of hundreds of trucks containing about 15,000 tons of supplies. Israel has ensured that food and supplies are shipped to Gaza six days a week.

        I guess no one's going hungry huh?

  • Shalom Freedman

    As usual an instructive piece by David Hornik. It was interesting to me that even Israelis of the Left understand the betrayal of Mubarrak by Obama as warning sign regarding the worthlessness of American security promises. All America's allies in the 'Middle East' are at this moment pondering this betrayal, along with the betrayal of Sunni and Christian Lebanese in allowing a Hizbollah takever there.
    For Israelis the rise to power of an Islamist regime in Egypt would be an existensial danger of the first degree. The American equipped Egyptian Army has hundreds of first- line aircraft and tanks.

  • Waldemar

    "Egypt may not be lost yet. If it is, Israel will stand as the one strong horse in the region aligned with the West against the radicals." Sorry, the West is NOT Israel' s ally: It will sell Israel to the LOWEST bidder, to buy "peace". Israel stands alone and will be forced to use its nukes.

    • QSuzy

      You are 100% correct. Today, both the US right and left are pro-Jihadi.

      • scum

        Poorly theorized. I would say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. Watch and see Obama's newfound commitment to Israel. Watch and learn, bro.

        • QSuzy

          What am I getting wrong?

          • BeckNCall

            I can't see him changing that much either. Remember Ronald Reagan's optimism, patriotism, his talk of a shining city on a hill? Ever hear anything of that nature from President Obama? I have not. That is troubling because he seems to have very little regard for America. At every turn he seems to bad mouth her, disarm her, apologize for her. Nothing Reagan about Obama. He is more of the Woodrow Wilson-FDR type.
            Nope, can't see him helping Israel.

          • QSuzy

            I can't either. Obama, Clinton and Bush are globalists, more concerned about the world than America. Israel, along with US Arab allies such as Jordan, the Saudis, Kuwaites, now know that US promises are not to be trusted nor relied upon.

  • Waldemar

    @ davarino. If by "education" you mean our madrassas – aka "colleges" or "universities" – then there is no hope. I have recently retired from one – they only spew leftist propaganda. We do need true education as a means to understand the world around us – but we have to do it underground.

    • sodizzy

      My hope is in God, the one who delivers America and Israel from their enemies time and again.

  • muchiboy

    "overstepping, by far, the line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism."

    Not here,not now ,stern.Hopefully never,but there may indeed be a fine line that I may at times straddle.Perhaps that will be unavoidable,as we both have very strong feeling here,you for Israel,me for the Palestinian people.But I will be vigilant in my words,though not overly cautious.The IDF ,and the Israeli government itself, could hardly be described as overly cautious in its repressive actions against the Palestinians.
    If left to the Zionists,any worthwhile and meaningful criticism against Israel would be considered antisemitic,and therefore immoral and illegitimate.Such an attitude and tactic is not only flawed,but intellectually dishonest.I am sorry for what my people have done to your people,but I cannot ignore what your people are doing to the Palestinian people.It is an ethical nightmare,stern,but we have to resolve it somehow.muchiboy

    • stern

      muchiboy, you read the wrong media. If you actually spent any time in Israel, you would know that most of what you read is absolute BS. But because you wilfully close your mind to anything that might contradict your pre-conceived ideas, you are an anti-Semite. If you were truly open, you would balance the different arguments and realize that your pure "white is black and black is white" opinions cannot possibly be correct. As I have said before, you are not worth the time it takes to reply to you.

      • stern

        BTW, it's quite obvious that the only reason you come to this side is because you are a troll. You do not read any of the material here with an open mind, but only with a mind to stir.

    • BLJ

      The Palenstinians have been used by the Arabs and Iranians for years. They are just cannon fodder to them. They are victims alright – victims of the Arabs and Iranians.

    • MixMChess

      "The IDF ,and the Israeli government itself, could hardly be described as overly cautious in its repressive actions against the Palestinians."

      You are dead WRONG muchiboy. Israel goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. The IDF has official policies which place a higher value on the life of Palestinian civilians over its own soldiers. Even at the height of the most recent Gaza War Israel ensured humanitarian supplies were delivered to Palestinians and maintained an open corridor between Gaza and Israel for Palestinians to seek medical care in Israel.

      As long as we're talking about repressive actions, what about the Palestinian terrorists which intentionally use human shields in violation of Article 51 of the Geneva Convention? What about the Palestinian terrorists who intentionally target Israeli civilian targets in defiance of international law? Why are the Palestinians allowed and encouraged to break the law and violate human rights? Don't be too afraid to answer coward.

    • MixMChess

      "If left to the Zionists,any worthwhile and meaningful criticism against Israel would be considered antisemitic,and therefore immoral and illegitimate."

      No you are LYING about Zionists. Some of the most "vociferous critics" of Israel are Israelis and Zionists themselves who use the freedom of speech guaranteed by Israel to express themselves. Just look at Israeli newspapers (JPost, Haaretz) which are rife with articles questioning particular government policies.

      You sir, are an Anti-Semite. Your goal is to delegitimize and destroy Israel rather than provide meaningful constructive criticism. Everyone is sick of your stupid rhetoric, go away.

    • aspacia

      What about Hamas's repressive action with its Gaza coup?

  • BLJ

    From the get-go of his Presidency, Obama has been against Israel. There is no doubt in my mind that he is hoping for Mubarak to fall.

    Obama has destroyed America's credibility with our allies. He is a spineless evil man. He is also a enemy of America. The idiots that voted him into offfice will have the blood of innocents on their hands.

  • muchiboy

    "If you actually spent any time in Israel,"

    Been there,done that,at least in a meaningful,analogous sense.As you well know,I lived and fought in a country colonized by Europeans.That country and situation shared many similar moral issues and conflicts with Israel.

    "you would balance the different arguments and realize that your pure "white is black and black is white" opinions cannot possibly be correct."

    I am familiar enough with the histories and ethics involved to have a balanced opinion,stern.It's just that the scales of justice tip significantly in favor of the Palestinian people.As in many such cases,especially with the migrations of peoples to other occupied lands,including Israel,the exchange of cultures,knowledge,etc can be beneficial for all.That is not the case with Israel and Zionism.Zionism through occupation and ethnic cleansing has victimized the Palestinians to an extent that demands worldwide condemnation and resolution.Whether the resolution lies in the Palestinians living in a Jewish state or Jews living in a Palestinian state is moot to me,just so long as the twin imperatives of fairness and justice are served.Personally I believe a country where both the Palestinian and Israeli live side by side within a single border in respect and tolerance would be the ideal state and solution.And as for pigs flying,well that's for another time.muchiboy

    • BLJ

      Aren't you late for your Muslim Brotherhood meeting?

    • ziontruth

      "Been there,done that,at least in a meaningful,analogous sense.As you well know,I lived and fought in a country colonized by Europeans."

      Get a load of muchiboyish logic here: "Have you ever been to country A?" "No, but I think country A is just like country B, and since I've lived in country B, it's as good as having been to country A." Amazing logic. I thought you were for international law, Muftiboy, which, may I remind you, proscribes torture. I can hear the logic screaming all the way here.

      "Personally I believe a country where both the Palestinian and Israeli live side by side within a single border in respect and tolerance would be the ideal state and solution.And as for pigs flying,well that's for another time."

      And another crowd-pleaser: "I have this FABULOUS pie-in-the-sky dream, which MUST be put into practice; stop shoving the fact that it has never been found to work in my face!"

      Peeps, may I suggest henceforth that this commenter be held valuable… for providing a comic relief when you need one!

      • scum

        By torture are we refering to waterboarding and even worse, 'long time standing'??

        • MixMChess

          Good thing Israel officially outlawed all forms of torture (including "loong time standing") in 1999.

    • aspacia

      You have zero balance regarding the issue Muchless!

  • BLJ

    Tell it to the judge son. It isn't cutting it here.

  • stern

    muchiboy, you really are a dreamer. If you honestly believe that the Arabs "spilt (sic) their own blood in support of the Palestinian people", then please explain why Jordan ruled the West Bank and Egypt ruled Gaza, from 1948 to 1967? If you're right, surely "Palestine" would have been created in those territories a long time ago. As I said, muchiboy, you read the wrong literature. Read some real history and you will quickly discover that for both Egypt and Jordan, attacking the newly-born Israel in 1948 was – plain and simple – a land grab!
    And enough with the "ethnic cleansing" BS. Read "Palestine Betrayed" by Efraim Karsh and you will find clearly documented evidence from British and Arab files that exonerates Israel of this libel. You keep repeating it despite clear evidence to the contrary, and that makes you an anti-Semite. I know you don't like hearing that, but you keep proving it to be true.

  • Raymond in DC

    No, they have fielded armies to help themselves. The idea that those armies fielded in 1948 would have withdrawn and allowed the then non-existent Palestinian people to create a state in the territory west of the Jordan is simply ludicrous. Egypt, Transjordan and Syria all had designs on the territory and were intent on seizing the remains for themselves after defeating the Jews. Nor did they go to war in 1967 on behalf of the Palestinians; otherwise, why did they not help create a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza when they were under their control? You've got much to learn boy.

  • Raymond in DC

    With Egypt, post Camp David, no longer seen as a front-line confrontation state, Israel was able to refocus on the eastern and northern threats, as well as that from the territories. Defense as a proportion of GNP fell from well above 20% to below 10%. If, as some in the Brotherhood have made clear, they are intent on sparking a new war on Israel, that will change. And given the qualitative and quantitative improvements in Egypt's armed forces, a new outbreak will prove costly for both sides. Just like Israel, Egypt has F-16s. And Egypt has locally manufactured Abrams tanks and Apache helicopters, and the 10th largest army in the world (intended against whom, one wonders).

    Israel's qualitative military advantage (QMA) is thus fragile, and primarily comes from Israel's own enhancements. But they may not be enough. That's why, should Egypt even hint at suspending its peace agreement with Israel, Israel will need the F-22. (Japan is also itching for it to defend against North Korea.) But Obama is intent on shutting down the production line. That decision, in the end, will cost lives.

    • muchiboy

      "Brotherhood have made clear, they are intent on sparking a new war on Israel, that will change. And given the qualitative and quantitative improvements in Egypt's armed forces,"

      Before Egypt or any other Arab nation can successfully confront Israel she needs a robust economy.Presently 40% of Egyptians survive on $2.00 or less per day.Food inflation is in the double digits.Again,Egypt can hardly look after its own much less the Palestinians.Israel,or else the Western nations,including America,must bring about needed changes to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.It will mean a game changer that is recognized by both Israel and America.Whether this is that game changer remains to be seen.Israeli youth and Palestinian youth should be out together in the streets like the Tunisian and Egyptian youth,demanding change.muchiboy

      • MixMChess

        "Before Egypt or any other Arab nation can successfully confront Israel she needs a robust economy."

        Why do Arab nations need to "confront" Israel? Haven't the waged war against her enough? Was 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1987, 1993, 2000, 2006, 2009 and 2010 not enough for you?

        "Egypt can hardly look after its own much less the Palestinians."

        Egypt doesn't need to look after the Palestinians, Israel already does that. Israel provided over 1 million tons in humanitarian aid to the Gaza Palestinians in 2009 ALONE.

        In 2009, the West Bank enjoyed a significant economic recovery, with economic growth reaching an unprecedented 8%. The conditions in the W. Bank improved mainly thanks to measures taken by Israel to support economic activity, improve the security situation in the West Bank, and continued financial support and increased foreign investment. There is an increase in real estate projects: "Rawabi, the first planned Palestinian city, is being built with the help of Israeli consultants." The W. Bank "boasts one of the world's strongest stock exchanges, the Palestinian Securities Exchange, (PSE), which grew 12.5% last year. It is ranked 33 among international stock exchanges and second in the region in terms of investor protection." The quality of life in the W. Bank is rising with culture and leisure activities becoming easily available to Palestinians who enjoy movies, health clubs, malls, restaurants, and music festivals.

      • MixMChess

        "Israeli youth and Palestinian youth should be out together in the streets like the Tunisian and Egyptian youth,demanding change."

        Why would Israeli Arabs demand change when they full religious freedom and equal protection under the law. In fact they enjoy more rights in Israel than in any other Arab/Islamic State and some western countries (see Europe).

        And why would the Palestinians demand change? See my previous comment about how Israel provides them with tons of humanitarian and economic support. The W. Bank economy is BOOMING with high end malls, stores and restaurants. Palestinian Arabs outrank nearly every Arab/Islamic state in terms of life expectancy, educational attainment and adjusted real income.

  • ziontruth

    "We will never know what would have resulted from an Arab victory."

    We know too. We know because the Arabs have repeatedly said what it would be: Genocide. The fact that their apologists in the West (like you) discount their words is no more to the point than all the pundits who said Hitler's words in Mein Kampf were just bluster and empty rhetoric.

    We know the true lesson of the Holocaust: When an enemy says he's going to kill us all, we believe him!

  • ziontruth

    "The Arab neighbors of Israel have fielded armies to help their Palestinian brothers. They have spilt their own blood and emptied their treasuries in support of justice for the Palestinian people."

    If you're talking about the War of Independence (1947-9), then the "Palestinian nation" hadn't been invented yet then. The Arab settlers in Palestine were still considered, by themselves as well as by others, as mere Arabs undifferentiated from Arabs elsewhere. It was only when the Arab world realized it had the uphill task of justifying the conquest of one single tiny Jewish state by a score of huge Arab states that they resorted to inventing the "Palestinian nation" in order to invert the reality of David and Goliath in world opinion. I have to give them credit, their ruse worked. But reality is unchanged, and the only true Palestinian nation is the Jewish nation.

  • Wesley69

    If Egypt falls to the Radical Muslim Brotherhood, Jordan will fall for sure, then the encirclement of Israel will be complete. There, however, is a window of time, if the military in Egypt can control the situation. If not, Israel had better prepare for war.

    It will need to reoccupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Push the Palestinians into Jordan and reoccupy Judea and Samaria. They will need to invade southern Lebanon, to destroy Hezbollah and Syria, marching on Damascus. It may need to threaten the use of its nuclear arsenal against one or two of these foes, particularly Iran, possibly Egypt. If Turkey, Iraq and Pakistan get involved, the world will see the beginnings of WWIII and will be witnessing the rebirth of the Islamic Caliphate. Regional, ethnic and nationality issues may keep it from becoming a centralized state. It will probaby look like the EU. Israel will continue to be a dagger poised at the heart of the Islamic nation. That will be a source of unity for the Caliphate. Israel will need to look for allies in India, in the EU, that will have its own battle with Islamification, possibly Russia, China.

    • QSuzy

      Good analysis.

    • scum

      Israel was ALWAYS surrounded, they knew that going into the process in the early twentieth century. Even when the Stern Gang terrorized the British, it was obvious they were going to have their hands full. To be 'surprised' in 2010 that Israel is surrounded by Islamic states is to state the obvious. That's why the tiny state of Israel is the third largest military power in the world, and will continue to accept huge shipments of arms from the U.S. Obama won't let them sink, although Israel is trying to sink itself.

      • MixMChess

        "Even when the Stern Gang terrorized the British, it was obvious they were going to have their hands full."

        The political violence directed at the British was due to the strict immigration rules the British had established which prevented millions of Jews from from finding sanctuary in Israel during the Holocaust (and instead perishing at the hands of the Nazis).

        Besides, if anything the Stern Gang learned their trade from the Arabs, who attacked and sabotaged the British in a pattern of TERRORISM, long BEFORE the Jews directed any animosity at the British.

        During the 1936-39 Arab Revolt, "British patrols were cut down by snipers, the new [British] airport at Lydda was burned, troop trains were derailed, and the oil line from Mosul to Haifa was badly damaged. As the killings and sabotage increased, so did British reprisals….From July to November 1938…perhaps 16,000 local and imported guerillas were engaged in the insurrection, and they succeeded almost completely in paralyzing civil authority outside the nation's larger cities and in the Jewish agricultural areas. All interurban transportation was prohibited at night, as Arab infiltrators laid mines and explosives along roads and highways."

        In fact, in a 1936 the British prepared the, "Report by His Majesty's Government to the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Trans-jordan," which stated the following: "There have been widespread acts of murder and other outrages by [Arab] gangs of armed terrorists. Apart from attacks in which British soldiers, airmen and police as well as many Arabs and Jews have lost their lives, the activities of these armed gangs have included repeated attempts to disorganize the means of communication, cutting of telegraph and telephone wires, derailing of trains, and attempts to prevent roads from being used by traffic. Considerable material damage has been done seriously affecting the economic life of the country and several attempts have been made to damage and set fire to the oil pipe-line between Haifa and `Iraq."

      • MixMChess

        "That's why the tiny state of Israel is the third largest military power in the world."

        Now you're just lying Scum (hehe get it lying scum?). Israel is NOT the third largest military power in the world. It is easily dwarfed by the overall military strength of countries such as the USA, China, Russia, India, Britain, Turkey, Germany, France and even Brazil. In fact, Egypt, Syria and Iran all have larger standing armies than Israel. And generally Israel ranks in the teens for military vehicles and systems (planes, tanks, armored personnel etc.).

  • scum

    I thought they only broke those deals.

    • QSuzy

      Hey cry baby, hope you have lots of kleenex.

    • MixMChess

      When has Israel ever broke any of its deals?

  • muchiboy

    "Israel is not, repeat not, a European colonial settler-state!"

    A special case of a European colonial settler-state,I agree,but a settler state none the less,ziontruth.Without the hundreds of thousands of European Jewish immigrant-refugees,it is questionable if not unlikely that we would have a re-created Israel today,at least not on occupied Palestine(nor Alaska,nor Uganda,I understand.Maybe the banks of the Rhine,to satisfy the German-Jewish-European-Yiddish heritage).An excellent subject for debate.muchiboy

    • ziontruth

      "A special case of a European colonial settler-state,I agree,but a settler state none the less,"

      No. Not a settler state by any stretch of imagination. No more than Greece is a settler state. In contrast, most Arab states (all those not situated in the Arabian Peninsula) are settler states.

      "Without the hundreds of thousands of European Jewish immigrant-refugees,…"

      And the hundreds of thousands of Arab Jewish refugees. But you and your Marxist fellow travelers always ignore those, because it absolutely ruins your mendacious narrative.

      "An excellent subject for debate."

      I don't want this debate to exist. Not because I hate debate, because it's a debate in which the right of my nation to live on its indigenous territory is put up for grabs. It's like those Jewish-Christian debates in the Middle Ages, where the loss of the Jewish debater would mean forced conversion for the entire Jewish community–no sane Jew looked forward to those debates, and no sane Jew should want anti-Zionism to continue as a legitimate point of view either.

      Anti-Zionism will be outlawed in the future Jewish Republic of Israel, may it rise soon, amen!

      • scum

        Not true. The vast majority of Jews living in Israel came from Europe. It was indeed a special kind of settler state. The 'Right to Return' was the right to return to one's 'ancenstral' homeland, but we all know where they came from. Israel is basically, one of the most successful (depending on your definition) programs for reparations ever offered. Ironic that Horowitz hates the idea of reparations for others and can't see the gift under his nose.

        • MixMChess

          "The vast majority of Jews living in Israel came from Europe."

          Um, no…. Jews from Arab and Muslim Middle Eastern and North African countries and their descendants make up well OVER HALF of the Jewish population of Israel.

          "Israel is basically, one of the most successful (depending on your definition) programs for reparations ever offered."

          Reparations from whom? The state of Israel was built on LEGALLY PURCHASED vacant land.

    • MixMChess

      Sorry muchiboy, Zionism cannot be considered colonialism under any accepted definition of colonialism or imperialism.

      Colonialism is a system in which a state claims sovereignty over territory and people outside its own boundaries, often to facilitate economic domination over their resources, labor, and often markets. Zionists did not come to the holy land as tools or representatives of any nation. They came as individuals from nations around the world to RESETTLE in their HOMELAND. In fact, Zionists went to the holy land to flee the oppression and discrimination of Western nations, not to be their representatives.

      Besides, "exiled Jews had been returning to Palestine for millennia, long before Western nations became powerful, before Europeans dominated the area, and before the Balfour Declaration and the Palestine Mandate." Recall, Jews have always had a historical and legal connection to the land and Jews were the only stable and continuous indigenous culture in the Holy Land. The hundreds of thousands of European Zionists were merely part of this age old pattern.

      "An excellent subject for debate."

      No, Israel's legitimacy is not up for debate. Sorry naziboy.

      • scum

        Again, a special form of settler state: Reparations, not typical colonial territory. But prior to the official formation of Israel (a new state), Palestine WAS colonized the British. That is simple fact…

        • MixMChess

          "Reparations, not typical colonial territory."

          Again, reparations from whom? Jews legally purchased vacant land to build the state of Israel. They never received any reparations.

          "But prior to the official formation of Israel (a new state), Palestine WAS colonized the British."

          So, what is your point? The British colonialists were at odds with both the local Jews and Arabs. The Zionist never acted as a tool of the British or furthered the British goals of colonialism in the region. In fact they were often at odds considering that during the mandate period the British imposed harsh restrictions on Jews and imposed strict immigration quotas on Jews while allowing free and open immigration for Arabs.

          Seriously, you don't have a clue what your talking about.

  • muchiboy

    "Not because I hate debate, because it's a debate in which the right of my nation to live on its indigenous territory is put up for grabs"

    Sure,I can understand that,ziontruth.But there will always be a Jerusalem,a Wailing Wall,a Bethlehem,a Dead Sea,all that was and is Israel.It's not going anywhere.There just has to be a place for Jews and Arabs to live together,within and without certain borders.I remember having this same conversation with a fellow ex Rhodesian,who was also a Jew and a Zionist.We came across this website from a young Lebanese,Muslim or Christian,I don't remember,who dreamed of the day he could drive along the seashore roads from Lebanon to Israel to Egypt.It'll happen someday.
    Me,I dream of the day when there will be no borders,when I can say the Elephant,the Polar Bear, the Tiger and the Panda are my National animals not a Canadian,Indian,African or Chinese.We live on a tiny blue dot.
    As for your beloved homeland,I hope you will always have it.My Grandfathers hometown was Bethlehem,it could just have easily been Jerusalem.Had I been borne Palestinian,I would gladly have lived in one country beside you and yours.
    I believe we have a duty towards the Palestinian people today,just as we had a duty to the Jews in wartime Europe and before.Then we failed the Jews,to our shame.We must not fail any people ever again.Yes,it's an ideal,maybe never to be realized,but we need to strive for that and other ideals.muchiboy

    • aspacia

      Move to the West Bank or Gaza and enjoy the World Community. They will execute you.

    • flaedo

      Uh no borders. Another utopia filled dreamer who has no culture or rather whose culture is of the inferior non Western variety. We in the West need protecting from people like you. Western civilisation has no peer in all of recorded history. Our Western culture is better than yours and will always need protecting from yours, that is of course unless you somehow manage to improve your culture – but that will never happen and certainly not whilst 42% of all Muslims are inbred. Obviously we need to erect very high fences to keep people like you away from OUR SUPERIOR WEST.

      • scum

        That's funny, because on the above post MixMCheese said Jews were fleeing "THE REPRESSION OF WESTERN NATIONS". And in any event, both Stalin and Hitler were spokesmen for the West. Furthermore, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Our Western culture is better than yours". I'm not sure that Muchiboy was directly advocating a different culture, rather a different policy. Presumably there's a difference.

        • MixMChess

          "That's funny, because on the above post MixMCheese [cute] said Jews were fleeing 'THE REPRESSION OF WESTERN NATIONS'."

          Yes, Western Nations were much different in the 18th and 19th century than they are now. Who woulda' thought?

          "And in any event, both Stalin and Hitler were spokesmen for the West."

          Incorrect. Stalin and Hitler were spokesmen for Communism and Fascism which were created to oppose Western values such as Capitalism and Democracy. Jeeze, you should have learned that in a Poli Sci 101 class.

  • Disappointed

    Wow. I have spent the last 15 minutes reading the comments that have been posted, and I can say I am truly amazed. Amazed at this meaningless tit for tat back and forth between people who all believe their opinion is the only right one and are willing to resort to childish insults and taunts to drive that point home. If anyone really wants to know the solution to most of the problems in the middle east and the rest of the world, take a look at this comment thread with an objective eye. It is hypocritical to tell someone to keep an open mind, then in the same breath ridicule them for their views. I was hoping for an actual conversation, a free exchange of ideas. These are the things that are needed to create solutions. Unfortunately it seems that one must be supportive of one side or the other to take part here. Why is it so impossible that both sides are right? Along with that, is it also impossible that both sides are wrong? Neither the Israelites, Palestinians, nor the Egyptians are blameless for the trouble at their borders. It can also be said that these groups have all made attempts at making the right decision for their interests. This is human nature, not some political Obama conspiracy meant to overthrow America. Decisions are made, some right and some wrong, and we deal with the consequences as they come. Cut each other a little slack and try to embrace the spirit of open communication, something this world so desperately needs.

    • GKC

      Meaningless? You wd. call for a pleasant debate about whether someone has a right to exist? It IS a free exchange of ideas here even if messy. Last I looked people come and go by choice here. Most of the ME does not have a free exchange of ideas. For some, their stated interest(right decision according to ) is the annihilation -literally-of people who don't share their religion and are forced to defend themselves.. Shall I sip my tea ever so politely with my pinkie held just so and gently chide? It's easier not to take a position and spout relativistic blather from above. You parse like an Obama campaign speech.

    • aspacia

      Believe it or not I do read conservative, liberal, moderate, Middle-Eastern, European and U.S. media. Read a thorough account of the Israeli/Muslim conflict. The Muslims instigated the violence against the infidels, you and me, long before the creation of Israel. Read Innocents Abroad, or a few of Churchill's dispatches while he was submitting articles on the Boer War and the MIddle-East. Always remember, deceit is a tool religiously condoned in Islam, and be careful.

    • ReconRambo

      The Lord Jesus Christ is and will be the ONLY solution to this world's problems. Here is what is beginning to take place in the world: "There went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."


    • scum

      "Disappointed" may be new to this site, but there's plenty of vitriol. Even official 'articles' on this site actually use lplayground name calling. Today's offering: in an article on the Tucson shooter, the author complains about the lead law enforcement officer in charge, and actually refers to him as "DUMBHICK". That is not his name, for the record. So much for intelligence, or editorial filtering. Sometimes, the louder you scream, the more you can rally the troops. That's the Horowitz/Glazov strategy, not anaysis. Welcome to FPM

  • muchiboy

    "Amazed at this meaningless tit for tat back and forth between people who all believe their opinion is the only right one and are willing to resort to childish insults and taunts to drive that point home."

    Well,it is intense debate,Disappointed.But your words are welcomed.I will take them to heart.muchiboy

  • http://www.19.org Edip Yuksel

    This is sick! For a long time, Israel was praised as "the only democracy in the Middle East". The same people who bashed Arabs for not having democracy (partially, due to the USA-Inc), now are biting their fingers in anger; they cannot accept Arabs kicking out the tyrants who served imperialism and its ugly stooge in the region.

    The Zionist reaction to the events in Tunisia, Egypt, and hopefully in other Arab countries, supports the obvious fact one more time: Zionists are hypocrites and they will lose big time. Wait and see. The day of reckoning is coming for the nazionists.


    • MixMChess

      I thought we scared you off Edip YukYuk? Israel's reaction has only been to state that they are "concerned" about the political unrest in Egypt. And they have good reason too, as it appears a revolution in Egypt would sweep the extremist Muslim Brotherhood to Power. This is the same Muslim Brotherhood which has stated that it wants to commit a worldwide genocide of Jews.

      So who's really the hypocrite Edip YukYuk? You are free to go back and crawl underneath the rock from which you came.

      • QSuzy

        It comes from the sewers.

      • scum

        Why be concerned? Watch your taxpayer dollars start flowing into Netanyahu's pockets… Where's your tea party now?

        • MixMChess

          I would rather my taxpayer dollars flow into Netanyahu's pockets than into the hands of Hamas, the PA or other radical Islamic organizations, all of which advocate for the worldwide genocide of Jews, Christians and other infidels.

          Did you know that according to a 1993 British National Criminal Intelligence Service report the PLO was “the richest of all terrorist organizations” with $8 billion to $10 billion in assets and an annual income of $1.5 billion to $2 billion. In 1999, England’s Daily Telegraph reported the PLO had $50 billion in assets. Adjusted all that for inflation… Oddly enough, over half of the PLO's assets went missing. Hmmm, I wonder if Suha Arafat enjoys her daily shopping sprees?

      • http://www.19.org Edip Yuksel

        I will ignore your juvenile flavor. I know that Israel did not much comment on this issue. I was talking about this and similar articles in this website.

        As for Muslim Brotherhood… They are only about one fifth or one fourth of the dissent. Besides, though I disagree with many of their belief system as I disagree with of those who follow Talmud and the Old Testament, they are not a violent group. Even the USA-Inc could not find much reason to list them as a terrorist groups. They have not killed even a fraction of Israeli terrorists in uniform killed. So, your paranoid hypothetical compared the real genocide currently committed by Zionists, we better worry about the REAL one.


        • MixMChess


          The Muslim Brotherhood is a very VIOLENT group and they even admit as much! The group claims to have taken part in "pro-Islamic conflicts," from the Arab-Israeli wars and the Algerian War of Independence to recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Kashmir. In fact, the current Egyptian Brotherhood exists as a militant clandestine group, and has been connected to many underground terrorist operations inside Egypt.

          The Muslim Brotherhood has been linked to terrorism in Egypt since after World War II. In the 1979 the Muslim Brotherhood murdered 83 Alawite students (Shia minority) in Syria. The self-admitted Palestinian wing of the Muslim Bortherhood, Hamas, indiscriminately terrorizes Israeli civilians and Jews worldwide – Hamas is responsible for murdering thousands of innocent Israelis. The Muslim Brotherhood has been behind countless terrorist attacks and car bombings in Chechnya and Russia. The Muslim brotherhood is on the international terrorist list for Russia and several other countries.

          You would have to be a complete moron or a liar to claim that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't violent. Which one are you Edip?


        • MixMChess

          "…as I disagree with of those who follow Talmud and the Old Testament…"

          Of course you do, you're an Islamic-supremicist. Anyone who doesn't follow Islam is an infidel and should be killed. Take your xenophobia elsewhere…

        • MixMChess

          "…the real genocide currently committed by Zionists…"

          Actually, the exact opposite is happening. Under Israeli rule the Palestinian population has increased exponentially, over 80% increase from 1993-2004 alone. The only genocide I am aware of is the one the Palestinians have been inflicting on the Jews since 1948. Did you know that the Hamas charter calls for the elimination of worldwide Jewry? Did you know official Palestinian Authority TV encourages children to murder Jews? Edip, why are Palestinians obsessed with drinking Jewish blood?

  • BUTSeriously

    Some spiritual politics. The corruption of the Balfour was the greatest post-W.W.II crime, perpetrated by Briton when the Jews were totally helpless, the term 2-state 'COMPROMISE' was used to carve off some 80% of the small land allocated for the Jews, and the totally unwarrented regime of Jordan was installed therein, after 22 ficticious Islamic regimes were created which never existed 120 years ago. This crime was perpetrated for 30 barrels of oil and as a stealth genocide of Europe and Islam's Jewish problem. Then another state is demanded in the same land, again called a 2-state, and as an added safety valve the 2000 year name of Palestinian applied 'exclusively' to the Jews, was transfered to those who hated this name the most, this, shaking hands with an Egyptian terrorist named Arafat, whose doctrine is openly declaring another Holocaust. Briton, the EU and UN correctly concluded there is none to judge them – they control the UN judgement seats. The math says serial 2-states in the same land = genocide. Can any political pundit tell us why the Islamic Regimes are topplying by themselves, the Arabs rendered the least productive peoples in the world – and Eurostan happening? Is it a Zionist plot!?

  • muchiboy

    "What about Hamas's repressive action with its Gaza coup? "

    Aspacia,I know that Hamas has committed atrocities against Israeli innocents.I know that most Arab regimes are repressive.But my cause is the impact of the Zionist settlers on the Palestinian people.I try to focus on that,and that alone,and admittedly ignore the other side's sins,of which there are many.I can't be everywhere at once.I'm sorry.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      Yep, only singling out Israel for condemnation REEKS of antisemitism.

      • scum

        not necessarily. It's only anti-semitism if you equate the actions of A STATE with the actions of one particular group of people. Presumably Israel is multi-racial (or pretends to be…).

        • MixMChess

          Israel is demonized, delegitimized and held to a double-standard alone among all nations. This is clearly unfair discrimination. And why is Israel discriminated and singled out? Because Israel is the only "Jewish" state. Owned.

        • MixMChess

          Oh and yes, Israel is multiracial. Israel is made up of people from all over the world: Ethiopia, Vietnam, Russia, Brazil, Sudan, Yemen and the Philippines just to name a few. Israel has TV channels in Hebrew, English, Spanish, German, Italian, French, Russian, Turkish, Arabic (several dialects) and even Hindi. Israel guarantees the religious freedom of all its citizens whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bahai, Samaritan, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist or whatever. In fact, 20% of Israel's population is made up of Arabs who enjoy full equal rights under the law and enjoy more civil rights in Israel than in any other Arab/Islamic state.

  • BLJ

    Your attempt at humor is as lame as your defense of Islamic Terrorist scum. I suggest you take your sorry act to Lebanon or Tehran.

  • ziontruth

    "Have you ever heard of an analogy?"

    Yes, I have. I know this thing about analogies: Though they're not supposed to perfect, they should still be checked to see they don't deviate too far from their target. Your analogy does. You know why? Because Israel is not, repeat not, a European colonial settler-state! This is a revisionist lie, as atrocious as any invented by Goebbels, and when Israel becomes a Jewish Republic, it'll be banned under the rubric of "denial of the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel" and be punished heavily.

    "Maybe you should just build the wall to include Gaza and the West Bank and keep the whole world out."

    I don't believe in walls. The Jewish way is ethnic cleansing. Anyone who doesn't accept that Israel is the State of the Jews will be expelled, whether from pre- or post-1967 territories.