Pages: 1 2
Tens of thousands of Palestinians are still homeless today and can not get access to medical treatment, food and clean water. It is important that we continue to stand up against the actions of our government and British companies that support the racist state of Israel.
You just exposed your stupidity..do us a favor and hit yourself with a shoe..then wash your face, look in the mirror and make a promise to become an informed human being! Of course you should stop making coments until you do so..
It doesn't seem to matter how much money has been given to the Palestinian people to reorganize and reconstruct their communities.
They still can't get out of their own way.
Their leaders pocket the money for themselves and leave the people in a continual state of poverty.
If their Muslim" brothers" and their wealthy " surrounding Muslim" countries were REALLY interested in helping the Palestinians then they would help construct and pay for better living conditions for them. Where is the Bin Laden family construction empire in Saudi Arabia when you need them? They are victims of their own ideology.
Tens of thousands of Arab imperialists are still without Jewish homes today, yet expect that the same Jewish State they wish to destroy will give them access to medical treatment, food and clean water. It is important that we continue to stand up against the actions of our government and British companies that support the imperialist ideology of Islam.
What's a "Palestinian"?
With or without quotation marks?
Without quotation marks: A Jew.
With quotation marks: An Arab imperialist employing deceptive language to deny the above.
that is better to stay quiet
and seems stupid,
rather than opening mouth
and removing all the doubts
If Palestinians are homeless or don't have access to medicine, food or water its not the fault of Israel. Recall Israel maintains an open medical corridor which allows Palestinians from Gaza and the W. Bank to receive medical care inside Israel. This in addition to the tons of medical supplies that Israel ships to Gaza and the W. Bank on a weekly basis. In a typical week the IDF coordinates the transfer of hundreds of trucks containing about 15,000 tons of supplies.
As for food and water, Palestinian markets are full of fresh produce and goods. In the first quarter of 2010 alone, Israel shipped 48,000 tons of food just to Gaza!
Why won't the fat Hamas warlords share the food and goods? Why does the Palestinian leadership continue to steal from civilians?
I thought this article was about racist calls for genocide against the Jews ?
Are you articulating an argument to SUPPORT mass-murder ?
Adside from poorly spelled words and bad grammar ,spewing forth absurd babble from Supreme -booty -galooty , lol…stated in the third person, "localtimezone" adds his/her ignorance of reality , as if fact . The facts of course being that Palestinians recieve the same medical treatment , drink the same water as Israelis , and there is no shortage of food whatsoever , not even in Gaza . Localtimezone , you are either an arab , an apologist /propagandist for palestinians , or an utterly pathetic and uniformed dupe .
Muslims have chosen the rules of the game. Let them all know in no uncertain terms what "Never Again" means. As for the Palestinians, it is a matter of record that Palestinians strap munitions on their own women and children and send them out on homicide-suicide missions to murder other innocent Jewish women and children in markets, restuarants, on school buses, and in their homes. The Palestinians in their own words and by their actions are committed to the genocide of the Jewish people therefore, have foreited their rights to even exist at all let alone having a UN and US sanctioned terrorist state of their own.
Hear hear! Soon the world will be so islamised we will have to organise resistance – active resistance.
Kudos on this important initiative, especially on its departure from the usual route of showing how good we are and embarking, instead (or in addition), on the way of showing how evil our enemies.
When demonized, demonize back!
Whenever a communial society takes your homes, lands, locks you up and see a life without hope because of continualy genocide, you hane a life without hope, caused by a peoples who did nothing to merit any of the actions against them, expect a life of acts against you and yours, until your time is at hand, then against those you left behind, until you leave and return to the place you were before you took their lives, their hopes
Well would the Arab imperialists coveting the Jews' homes and lands do to think on this. Let them expect retribution until they leave and return to the place they had been, the Arabian Peninsula, before they took the Jews' lives and hopes.
I agree, its time for the Palestinian to return to the surrounding Arab countries from which they came (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Algeria, Syria…) and to stop terrorizing the indigent and native Jewish population!
The fact that the Islamist supremacists are also anti-semitic doesn't relieve the Zionist's original sin, displacing 630,000 Arabs in the formation of their country, in what many Israelis and Jews think was a crime against humanity. The original error was by the U.S. and other western powers in the newly minted U.N., acceding to the demands of the Zionists. Plunking down a Jewish territory in the middle of such hostile territory was an incredibly stupid and arrogant idea. Our own CIA at the time begged Truman not to go along with it, warning him that it would result in endless war. You see. we knew about the ugliness of radical Islam back then and knew this would inflame already intense enmities to a new, horrific level.
To me, the Zionists always want to start the clock on morality, atrocities and hatred right after they "ethnically cleansed" these 630.000 Arabs from their homes. Those exact words are used by Benny Morris – a Jewish and Israeli historian. That Morris claims the Israelis had no choice as they faced genocide at the hands of the Arabs, also ignores the act that Israel instigated this genocidal rage with a war crime of its own.
I bet most Americans don't even know that Israeli govt docs declassified in the '80s disprove utterly the narrative peddled to them by the mainstream media. For example, there is unequivocal proof of Ben Gurion's giving order to cleanse towns of hundreds of thousands of Arabs. Do you know that the Zionists carried out their own campaign of terror by at least two paramilitary groups for decades in the pursuit of their religiously given homeland in Palestine. Or that it's documented that the Israelis tortured and illegally imprisoned thousands of Palestinian Arabs? I'm supposed to forget that they did all this in the name of their own religion?
No dice. I'm disgusted by both sides. But just to make it really simple, morally here's how it looks to me. if you decide to squat in someone's hosue and he tries everything in his power to make you leave, including killing all he can't remove by other means, don't act morally superior or like the victim to me. Jews knew long before 1948 that Muslims were intolerant of Jews – newflash, they're intolerant of every religion. That they have blended their legitimate political complaints with their hateful religion is revolting, but it doesn't let Israel off the hook.
"The fact that the Islamist supremacists are also anti-semitic doesn't relieve the Zionist's original sin,…"
I was under the impression that it was God's exclusive privilege to judge sins, especially those of the original kind. Looks like self-apotheosis is all the rage nowadays.
"Plunking down a Jewish territory in the middle of such hostile territory was an incredibly stupid and arrogant idea."
Telling the Jews that they should give up on their ancient homeland (ever read a Bible?) is an incredibly insolent and arrogant idea.
"You see. we knew about the ugliness of radical Islam back then and knew this would inflame already intense enmities to a new, horrific level."
I commend you for being honest and showing that anti-Zionism is nothing but the cowardice and impudence of appeasing Islam on the Jews' backs.
"…Israel instigated this genocidal rage with a war crime of its own."
Israel is blameless, a single, tiny Jewish state in a sea of Arab and Islamic ones, full of bloodthirsty savages who wish to illicitly gain what they do not deserve. The only justified rage would be one coming from the Jews; Arab and Muslim rage is the temper tantrum of the spoiled child who still doesn't have everything he wants, the same kind of rage that the Muslims displayed in the face of a few mediocre cartoons. Such rage deserves nothing but a good paddling.
"if you decide to squat in someone's hosue and he tries everything in his power to make you leave, including killing all he can't remove by other means, don't act morally superior or like the victim to me."
From your keyboard to the Islamic imperialists' ears. Let them be mindful of that when we expel them, those squatters in our one and only house.
You perfectly depict the bigoted, Zionist attitude with your own words. You are a disgrace to the Jewish people, who have a culture of intellectual honesty and self-reflection. i get it, you just want the land because God gave it to you. You should at least be honest with the rest of the readers on this site. How much land do you actually believe is due the Jewish people? Cuz we know "God" gave you a whole lot more than that.
"You perfectly depict the bigoted, Zionist attitude with your own words."
Change that "Zionist" to "anti-Zionist" and you're describing yourself.
"You are a disgrace to the Jewish people,…"
Oh, don't I just like how such a lot of anti-Zionists claim defense of the Jewish people and their name! So, so touching! But this mask is transparent in the face of their identification with movements that are for Jewish annihilation (God forbid).
As can been seen in this fine specimen, who has justified ("If you decide to squat in someone's house…") the Arab murder of Jewish babies.
"i get it, you just want the land because God gave it to you."
That's one reason, but there are others. Another good reason is that the Jews have an actual connection to this land, while your so-called "Palestinians" are nothing but invaders from Araby, with no particular tie to this land, or any other land outside the Arabian Peninsula, for that matter.
"How much land do you actually believe is due the Jewish people?"
As I gather from the authoritative interpretations (I'm not a rabbi myself), the currents areas of Israel (both pre- and post-1967) and Jordan are the bounds. Altogether, an area smaller than the state of Massachussetts. Yet still apparently too much to ask, of course. No, only the Arab nation is entitled to a huge portion of the globe. Two standards are better than one, aren't they?
Jewish chosenness is manifest in the spiritual role HaShem has allotted the Jewish people; for a kind of Chosen People theory that gives its members boundless material benefits, you're looking for Nazism and Islam (which means your Phakestinian friends, among others). What we Jews ask is that we be accorded the same right as any other nation: The right to national sovereignty within our indigenous territory, no more, no less. Imagine that!
I respectfully disagree with Ziontruth on this issue as I am a purely secular Zionist. That said, Jews don't and cannot "want" the land – it is already theirs and always has been based on historical and legal precedent alone.
Recall, Jews are indigenous to the land and maintained a continuous presence for over 3,000 years according to archeological and historical evidence. In fact, Jewish civilization in Israel was already over 1,000 years old when Rome sacked Jerusalem in the first century. Even then, Rome exiled only a portion of the population. The remaining Jews, flourished for centuries in other Jewish towns, such as Yavne, Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Jewish population was decimated by the Crusaders in the 12th century AD, but it rebounded in the next centuries and grew as Jews returned in waves of immigration and settled in Safed, Jerusalem, Tiberius and Hebron. The early Zionists were merely part of this age old pattern of migration to the Holy Land.
"How much land do you actually believe is due the Jewish people? Cuz we know "God" gave you a whole lot more than that."
Arabs illegally possess over 85% of the Jewish National Homeland. Even still, Israel has withdrawn completely from Gaza and 98% of the W. Bank is governed by the Palestinian Authority. The real question is how much more land do the Arabs want to steal from Israel?
"I respectfully disagree with Ziontruth on this issue as I am a purely secular Zionist."
As I said, this is one among many reasons. The fact is, despite being a religious Jew, I very rarely argue the right of the Jews to the Land of Israel from the Torah. As even a cursory survey of my comments can confirm, my line of argumentation is nearly always that the Jews have the right to the land by virtue of being its indigenes.
The argument from the Torah is one I avoid, not because I don't accord it value (perish the thought), but because I don't want to open the Jewish nation to divine judgment. Arguing from the Torah could open the accusation in heaven that the Jews aren't observant of the Torah as they should be. I want, as much as I can, to give Jews everywhere, including myself of course, time to increase in Torah observance, and so I can't use this argument which has the potential of raising an accusation in heaven.
Thus much for believers' stuff…
You're the disgrace. You're nothing more than a wicked Jihadist-loving pig.
It is my understanding that individual Israeli's bought the land they own from Arabs at the time of the country's formation. No one forced Arabs to sell to immigrants or leave – they ethnically cleansed themselves by not wanting to live next door to Jews. And how can it be said that Israel is Arab land, a form of ownership, when Arab's themselves don't recognize freedom, individual rights or property rights – and, by the way, that practice goes back to the time of Mohammed. Can't demand rights for yourself while violating the rights of others.
Read the Quran or Mein Kampf, there is no need to read both.
As far as whose religion is right or wrong or the nastiest, why not have a secular government – call it Israel or whatever – that recognizes and protects the rights of everyone within its borders. If you are free and your individual rights are protected, why is it important that jews be expelled, unless it is to satisfy religious hatred? Does anyone really think that if Israel didn't exist, there would be freedom and individual rights in the region?
You are completely ignorant of the history. It is true that a small but significant amount of land had been purchased from Arabs by Jews, starting in the late 1800's, with the formation of the Jewish Land Trust, which also marks the birth of the Zionist movement. It is also true that many of those purchases were done via bogus titles issued via the Ottoman Empire, versus buying the land from the residents of the property. Due to many factors, including the Bedouin culture, titling of land was not handled via the standards of Western nations. It has been shown that some of the Jewish purchasers of these titles were doing so intentionally as a way to displace some Arabs.
However, the 630,000 I refer to isn't about those folks. That's a separate, disgusting chapter of Zionist history. These are the people who fled their homes in terror of the advancing military and paramilitary (read terrorist) forces. This isn't really disputed by any serious historians – Jewish or otherwise – since the declassification of so much government documentary evidence supporting this claim exists and has been subjected to much scrutiny and debate. Fyi, this is also why academia has become so hostile towards Israeli's continuous claim of the moral high ground on this issue. These facts were disclosed in the late 80s and 90s, and have only really been incorporated into modern accounts of the history of Israel in the past 10 yrs or so. If you want to read an accurate accounting of the now known history, click this wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exo… It's heavily foonoted and relies on numerous direct and analytical sources from across the ideological spectrum.
Any Beck fans out there? Go do your own research on the formation of Israel and the campaign of Zionism that lead to it and tell me, do you think they are morally in the right? Do you realize that Albert Einstien despised it, and wrote out why in a scathing, public letter to the New York Times in '48? Go learn the facts and I think you'll see that the whole freaking thing is a cesspool of a-holes, fighting a religious and cultural war. More importantly, why is it in the U.S. interest to side with Israel? If we fear for them, let's offer them asylum here. Our country has offered a fantastic and welcoming home for millions of Jews, it would be no problem. But to defend their religious claims to land with our treasure and blood? For what?
"These are the people who fled their homes in terror of the advancing military and paramilitary (read terrorist) forces."
They fled mainly on the promise that they would return once the invading Arab armies had done away with the fledgling Jewish state. It is well documented, and a repeat of that promise took place in 2006 when Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah called the Arabs of the Galilee to flee and await his victory. (They ignored his order, being wiser than that generation.)
"Fyi, this is also why academia has become so hostile towards Israeli's continuous claim of the moral high ground on this issue."
Academia has become hostile toward Israel, and Zionism in general, ever since it was taken over by the Marxists beginning in the 1960s. Marxism declared undying enmity to Zionism way, way back in the 2nd International in 1920, as part of its general declaration of war on all forms of nationalism.
"More importantly, why is it in the U.S. interest to side with Israel?"
Maybe it isn't. But you wish the U.S. to side against Israel, and that would be blatant intervention in a sovereign state's affairs. To appease the Muslims on Israel's expense is interventionism.
"If we fear for them, let's offer them asylum here. Our country has offered a fantastic and welcoming home for millions of Jews, it would be no problem."
America has been kind to her Jews. Regardless, the Land of Israel is the one and only true homeland of the Jewish nation. Anti-Zionism is an affront to the entire Jewish nation in that it denies that fact.
"Why is it in the U.S. interest to side with Israel". I believe it is on our interest because I don't believe God ever rescinded His promise to "bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. I know not everyone is tuned into God but that dosn't mean he dosn't exist. And I have a brief suggestion, watch and see, it's coming. If you have the slightest willingness to an open mind I do believe you will indeed see the "hand of God"
Right, but that has nothing to do with U.S. interests – it has to do with your Christian beliefs, which have no place in the decision making of our foreign policy. But at least you are honest.
If Israel were not a secure military ally, the US would have to deploy its own troops to the Middle East to ensure the stability of the region. The U.S. would have to spend the equivalent of $150 billion a year in the Middle East to maintain a force equivalent to Israel's. What about the countless medical and technological advances that the US benefits from partnerships with Israel?
"It is true that a small but significant amount of land had been purchased from Arabs by Jews, starting in the late 1800's, with the formation of the Jewish Land Trust, which also marks the birth of the Zionist movement."
Jews bought the land from willing Arab landowners, often for exorbitant prices. Of the 463,000 acres that Jews owned in 1947, they had bought 387,500 from Arabs (84%), 30,000 acres from various churches and received only 45,000 from the British Mandate authorities.
"It is also true that many of those purchases were done via bogus titles issued via the Ottoman Empire, versus buying the land from the residents of the property."
Wrong again, many Arab landowners and residents sold land to Zionists included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa, As'ad el-Shuqeiri (father of the first PLO Chairman) and members of the Muslim Supreme Council. Even King Abdullah sold land to Jews. In fat, the Jewish National Fund reported on the "constant stream of Arab offers to sell," and that it was "flooded…with more offers than it could accommodate" in the 1930's.
"It has been shown that some of the Jewish purchasers of these titles were doing so intentionally as a way to displace some Arabs."
You are a liar. As a policy, Zionists tried to buy land that would not displace the local population. David Ben Gurion himself stated that "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to [Arab Peasants] or worked by them." And "Only if a [Peasant] leaves his place of settlement should we offer to buy his land at an appropriate price."
In fact, the Jewish National Fund's highest priority was buying "the best and largest possible land area available from a cultivation standpoint with the fewest number of owners. Acquiring land with the fewest number of [peasant] occupants was also a priority…."
In fact, few Palestinians were uprooted from their land by the Zionist purchases. Even Benny Morris admits that only a few thousand Arabs were displaced following land sales to Jews from the 1880'sand the late 1930's." In fact, most of the Palestinians were uprooted not because of Zionists, but by outside social and economic forces that had nothing to do with Zionists.
Zionist leaders from Theodore Herzl to Chaim Weizman to David Ben Gurion were dedicated to peaceful co-existence with the local Arab residents and to having them benefit from Zionist development. In fact, Israel's Declaration of Independence states the following:
"The State of Israel… will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants, irrespective of creed, race or gender; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture."
The Zionists frequently urged Palestinians not to flee the areas they secured and encouraged them to stay in their homes and communities. The majority of Palestinians fled before full-scale hostilities began and without even seeing an Israeli soldier. Palestinians fled because of Arab policies. Independent fact-finding commissions and contemporary news accounts confirmed that Arab leaders had encouraged Palestinians to leave, promising a swift victory if they cleared the way to "push the Jews into the sea." Subsequent propaganda about Israeli atrocities backfired and created panicked flight.
"This isn't really disputed by any serious historians – Jewish or otherwise – since the declassification of so much government documentary evidence supporting this claim exists and has been subjected to much scrutiny and debate."
Historians agree that Israel did NOT have a deliberate policy for expelling Arabs during the 1948 War. Even Benny Morris, one of the most prominent "new historians" denies that such a policy existed.
The new historians have not revealed that the "Zionist national narrative" is a fabrication. In fact, the new historians have not revealed many new facts to justify their reinterpretation of Israel's history. Much of what you claim is "new archival evidence" had already been known and written about by previous historians. The main difference is in their interpretation of these facts. Of course, the "new historians" work is severely criticized by mainstream, respected scholars who charge that their work violates scholarly standards of research and analysis, and is driven by a political-ideological agenda.
Daniel Polisar notes: "while some of the sources presented by the new historians had previously been untapped, the factual core on which they based their findings was far from original. Avi Shlaim's Collusion Across the Jordan (1988) covered material much of which had been familiar to Israeli historians for over a decade, and whose major components Dan Schueftan had already explored in A Jordanian Option (1986). The depiction of the Zionist leadership's response to the Holocaust in [Tom] Segev's The Seventh Million (1991) likewise added little to the research on which Dina Porat had based her Entangled Leadership (1986). What made the new works highly controversial was therefore not the facts they presented, but the perspective from which they were written, which was characterized by a markedly more negative evaluation of Zionist leaders than that reached by previous Israeli historians."
And Historian Anita Shapira has stated: "[t]he 'new historians' of Israel have not exactly pioneered fresh critical approaches in Israeli historiography. Already in the 1970s, scholars had begun to develop new and sophisticated views of Jewish-British relations under the Mandate, of Zionism's relation to the Arab problem, of the rise of the Arab national movement, of the nature of Zionism as the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. There was a tense and constant dialogue between collective memory and historical scholarship, as the new approaches slowly penetrated into the educational system and public consciousness. Since the advent of the "new historians," however, a new polarization has set in. For the "new historians" dismissed all previous historiography as apologetic. Whoever dares to oppose or to criticize the pronouncements of these self-styled iconoclasts is savagely maligned."
Even 'new historian' Avi Shlaim admitted that many of the 'new historians' arguments were not new: "Many of the arguments that are central to the new historiography were advanced long ago by Israeli writers, not to mention Palestinian, Arab and Western writers."
"Go do your own research on the formation of Israel and the campaign of Zionism that lead to it and tell me, do you think they are morally in the right?"
"Do you realize that Albert Einstien despised it, and wrote out why in a scathing, public letter to the New York Times in '48?"
Glenn you're an idiot. Albert Einstein was a Zionist, participated in the World Zionist Congress and helped found Hebrew University in Israel. Like most early Zionists, Einstein was very critical about specific Zionists policies and joined other early Zionist leaders in urging Jews and Arabs to make peace. Too bad the Arabs refused to heed to Einstein's pleas…
"Go learn the facts and I think you'll see that the whole freaking thing is a cesspool of a-holes, fighting a religious and cultural war."
Nope, 20% of Israeli Jews are completely secular. And, the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs found that less than 8% of Israelis identify themselves as Religious/Orthodox and that the political and religious views of the that group were incredibly diverse. In the government, religious parties are minorities in the Knesset.
Why is it in US interest to side with the Palestinians?
"But to defend their religious claims to land with our treasure and blood?"
What? Israel is a secular democracy. Moreover, no American soldier has ever been put at risk on account of Israel. In fact, if Israel were not a secure military ally, the US would have to deploy its own troops to the Middle East to ensure the stability of the region. The U.S. would have to spend the equivalent of $150 billion a year in the Middle East to maintain a force equivalent to Israel's.
Those 630,000 (or so) fled Israel because their Muslim "brethren" told them to leave the new state of Israel so they would not be in the way of the advancing Muslim armies, who were supposed to wipe the Jews off the map. The Jews did not force them to leave. Unfortunately for them, the Jews didn't lose.
Yeah, according to the Wikipedia link you provided, that is the "old" history. If you follow some of the links in that article you will find that there are some serious criticisms of the New Historians.
Is this the Einstein letter you referenced?
If so, you need to read it again. Einstein and others were speaking out against Begin and the Irgun party
"The fact that the Islamist supremacists are also anti-semitic doesn't relieve the Zionist's original sin, displacing 630,000 Arabs in the formation of their country, in what many Israelis and Jews think was a crime against humanity."
The original sin is that the Arabs refused compromise and waged war against Israel. Had the Arabs made peace, there would have never been a war, none of them would have been "displaced", and we could be celebrating the 63rd birthday of the birth of the Palestinian state.
Recall, the Arabs who left Israel during the war owned less than 17% of the land. By the way, the UN placed the refugee figure at 472,000. What about the original sin of Israel being forced to absorb over 850,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands?
"The original error was by the U.S. and other western powers in the newly minted U.N., acceding to the demands of the Zionists. Plunking down a Jewish territory in the middle of such hostile territory was an incredibly stupid and arrogant idea."
This makes no sense. Israel was always Jewish territory to as Jews were the only natural indigent population of the land. At the time of partition, Jews formed roughly 1/3 of the population and were therefore a significant minority who warranted the division into two states. The UN's recommendation was based precisely on the principle of population majorities. With Partition, one state would have a Jewish majority; the other an Arab majority.
"To me, the Zionists always want to start the clock on morality, atrocities and hatred right after they "ethnically cleansed" these 630.000 Arabs from their homes."
No lets go further back to when the Arabs terrorized the Jewish population starting back in the 1920's. Lets go back to right before the war of independence when the Jews begged the Arabs to make peace and accept partition but the xenophobic Arabs refused. Lets go back to 1948 when after Israel declared its Independence it called upon Arabs to stay in their homes and become part of the Israeli nation. Lets go back to the day after Israel declared its independence and all of the Arab armies invaded tiny Israel intent on exterminating the Jews.
"Those exact words are used by Benny Morris – a Jewish and Israeli historian. That Morris claims the Israelis had no choice as they faced genocide at the hands of the Arabs, also ignores the act that Israel instigated this genocidal rage with a war crime of its own."
There was never any genocide, forced expulsions or ethnic cleansing committed by the Arabs. You are a liar… Even Benny Morris, one of the most prominent "new historians", denies that such policies existed: "[T]here was no Zionist policy to expel the Arabs or intimidate them into flight" in either the first or second stages of the mass panic flight of Palestinians in 1947 and 1948."
"I bet most Americans don't even know that Israeli govt docs declassified in the '80s disprove utterly the narrative peddled to them by the mainstream media."
Actually the government documents from the 80's were from mostly low-level government officials and have not changed the classic Israeli narrative.
"For example, there is unequivocal proof of Ben Gurion's giving order to cleanse towns of hundreds of thousands of Arabs."
This is a lie based on hearsay after Ben Gurion's death. In fact, IDF General Yigal Allon has stated that Ben Gurion never gave any order to cleanse towns of Arabs. Additionally, Professor Yoav Gelber has stated that "Ben-Gurion was in the habit of expressing his orders clearly, whether verbally or in writing…" he adds that "there is no record of any meetings before the invasion that indicate expulsion was discussed." That said, the British and several Arab leaders raised the idea of expulsion and population transfers – which the Zionists rejected.
"Do you know that the Zionists carried out their own campaign of terror by at least two paramilitary groups for decades in the pursuit of their religiously given homeland in Palestine."
Wrong, Jewish paramilitary groups (Such as Haganah, Irgun or the Stern Gang) never had a policy to terrorize Palestinians or destroy villages and slaughter Palestinians. Quite the contrary, these Jewish paramilitary groups were formed to PROTECT Jews from ARAB TERRORISM, not to terrorize Palestinians. The Haganah, a grassroots Jewish militia, formed in 1920 to protect Jews from the Arab violence unleashed by the Arab Riots, not to attack Arabs. Jews felt that the British authorities were not providing sufficient protection for them. The Haganah was committed to acting with restraint against Arab attacks.
Of course, it was the goal of Palestinian armed groups to terrorize Jews. The Palestinians, led by the Nazi sympathizer Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, are the originators of terrorism in the region. They repeatedly led riots and pogroms against the Jews in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1933 and 1936-39, klling thousands of Jews and maiming and injuring tens of thousands more.
"Or that it's documented that the Israelis tortured and illegally imprisoned thousands of Palestinian Arabs? "
Palestinian prisoners aren't tortured. In fact, many receive free educations, courtesy of the Israeli government, and are free to petition Israeli courts for any supposed grievances. In fact, most complaints prisoners level against Israel are trivial. As Itamar Marcus reported:
"Upon being released as part of an Israeli good-will gesture, a Palestinian prisoner jailed for the murder of 14 people unwittingly revealed both the privileges he received in Israeli prison and the general lack of concern he needed to have for his personal safety there. His principle grievance was random prison cell searches. Meanwhile, he gloats that he and 200 of his fellow inmates received a fully-subsidized education at Israel's premier universities."
"I'm supposed to forget that they did all this in the name of their own religion?"
Huh? Israel is a secular state and Zionism was started as a secular movement (Theodore Herzl himself was a secular Jew).
Texas and California were robbed from Mexico in the most brutal fashion imaginable. Why should not Mexico get back Texas and California? Consider the real consequences of expelling people who have lived in Israel for generations now. 10,000,000 Ethnic Russians in the Ukraine would then be justifiably exiled. Germany could reassert claims to parts of Poland that had been German for millenia; it tried to do this about 1990, but the rest of Europe got kind of upset. One thing's for danged sure. Jews will not be able to get that land in Galicia that had been in Jewish hands for hundreds of years. Or do you think otherwise?
One of the most frightening quotes is that some of the people who are in the above pictures think that Americans should be murdered along with Israelis. I'm asking the supporters of the Palestinians that they also support the murder of Americans and the destruction of the USA?
Cd. you clarify and restate this?
Well,Ahmad Bashad,one of the Palestinians featured said that the U.S. should disappear and Americans killed. Other Palestinian leaders have said the very same thing.
Intellectual giants such as "timezone" or "J.Cox" are but perfect examples of a main branch of "The Problem" in the Middle East: Uninformed idiots spitting their biased opinions planted in their brains by the Katie Courics, CNN anchors and assorted media useful idiots. Ask these same moronic members of the herd assorted questions about Truly Important Countries such as Cameroon or Namibia or Qatar. But when it comes to Israel, they are majestic scholars that are just ready to show their expertise on Israel and Jewish history.
To give an opinion on a subject, any subject, one has to be informed on the subject. The exception to this is (1)Muslims, whose hatred and bias is enough to waive them from requiring any information other than the vitriol contained in the Koran; (2)Hard-core leftists, whose drug-damaged brains are incapable of assimilating anything other than the mantras repeated by gurus such as Rachel Maddow; or (3)Plain antisemites, to whom any argument in favor of anything Jewish has been automatically disqualified.
before picking up the pen, and start writing and judging
try to read some history
hoe the arabs destroyed many civilizations, languages, cultures…ie
zoroasterianism in iran, assyrians in iraq, coptics in egypt, berbers in north africa, christianity in syria ( byzantine ) , hinduism in india
honestly you have a slightest clues what has happened in middle east by islam/arabs
before more wirting, go humbly do some reading
A second branch of "The Problem" in the Middle East is that racist, biased bigots masquerading as multi-cultural, equal-rights advocates, "Liberté, égalité, fraternité," zealots, such as "Glennd1", "timezone" et al., pretend to become our moral compasses, attempting to guide the rest of us through the forests of what's right and what's evil. Except that the compass lacks a pointing needle.
These bigots, knowing their own limitations, bestow on whoever disagrees with them the same epithets that accurately qualify themselves (bigots, racists, you-name-it-phobes). Ahmadinejad, Khomeini, Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Mohammed…. those are the moral giants they look up to.
It's not unlike human-rights champions such as Ahmadinejad or Qadafi lecturing the world on human rights and equality. With CNN, BBC, PBS, MSNBC and NPR diligently taking notes.
1. The British Mandate/UN records state that an estimated 483,000 Arabs “left the region at the urging of the Arab States” UNQUOTE (for the historically challenged). The records also detail, at great length, the legal purchase of land by the Jewish Trust. Purchased from Lebanese, Syrian and Turkish landlords under the Ottoman Laws that the British were required to administer for the duration of their Mandate period. These landlord and tenant laws were not very dissimilar to those that exist in Western countries today. Incidentally the Jewish Fund compensated many of the tenants for losses incurred, which they were not legally obliged to do. The UN records also attest to an estimated 850,000 Jews, indigenous to the Middle East, forced from Arab Lands, most of who were settled in Israel. These peoples currently comprise 60% of the Jewish population of Israel.
2. "The Arabs Are Responsible" Post-Zionist Historian Benny Morris Clarifies His Thesis
September 2001 lecture at UC Berkley's Theological Institute.
A simple title search on google will give you many interviews of his clarification.
3. And last but not least who are you to argue with a true Hashemite, who as far back as 1919, had enough knowledge of history to welcome the Jewish people back to their homeland.
"We Arabs… look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, in so far as we are concerned, to help them through; we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home… I look forward, and my people with me look forward, to a future in which we will help you and you will help us, so that the countries in which we are mutually interested may once again take their places in the community of the civilised peoples of the world."
I conceded that Morris justifies this ethnic cleansing by characterizing the Zionists already ongoing war with Arabs in Palestine in my comment, which was then escalated after the formation of Israel, as genocide. But the truth is that the very formation of Israel and the theft of so much land from Arabs by Zionist was the instigating act for this "genocide". However, that doesn't change the fact that Morris characterizes it as ethnic cleansing – he just gives it moral cover, and since he's a Zionist, I can understand that. I don't see how supporting such territorial ambitions and the crimes of Israel is in our interest – you know, the U.S.'s. . Let them kill each other over that barren wasteland – it's the prerogative of both sides to do so. But don't tell me the Zionists are the victims – that just ignores 50+ years of intent and actions by Zionists in favor of their cause.
"I conceded that Morris justifies this ethnic cleansing by characterizing the Zionists already ongoing war with Arabs in Palestine in my comment, which was then escalated after the formation of Israel, as genocide."
You are a liar. Benny Morris has gone on the record stating that Israel never engaged in ethnic cleansing, denying that such a policy existed: "There was no Zionist policy to expel the Arabs or intimidate them into flight." Nice try though.
"But the truth is that the very formation of Israel and the theft of so much land from Arabs by Zionist was the instigating act for this "genocide"."
Zionists never stole Arab land. They legally bought it from willing Arab landowners, often for exorbitant prices. Of the 463,000 acres that Jews owned in 1947, they had bought 387,500 from Arabs (84%), 30,000 acres from various churches and received 45,000 from the British Mandate authorities. The Jewish National Fund reported on the "constant stream of Arab offers to sell," and that it was "flooded…with more offers than it could accommodate" in the 1930's.
Additionally, much of the land Zionists bought and settled was unpopulated. The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that "Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought." In fact, Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 on an expanse of empty sand dunes. Even Benny Morris admits that "in the 1920's most purchases were of large, relatively empty, mostly uncultivated tracts from absentee effendis (landlords)…."
When the Zionists came into Palestine, Jews were a minority but were indigenous to the area. And the largest community in Jerusalem near the end of the 19th century was the Jewish community. Alongside the immigration of Jews into Palestine was 100,000 arab immigrants from outside Palestine who came in reponse to development in industry and agriculture Zionism brought. The Palestinian Arabs were not monolithic but the faction led by the Mufti of Jerusalem made an alliance with the Nazis and defeated their Arab rivals and took, alongside the surrounding Arab states an unwavering stance in regard to Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine. The eastern 3/4 was already removed from the Jewish home and in 1946 was given statehood by the Brits. The Jews agreed in 1947 to share the remaining land with a second Arab state but the Arabs launched a war of annihilation but lost. Yes, some Arabs were expelled from their homes in places like Lydda but many just fled and some such as in Haifa were ordered out by their leaders. Also some the elite left on their own before the war even began. When the war ended Transjordan captured Judea/Samaria and renamed itself Jordan and the territories it took, the West Bank. Egypt conquered Gaza. Neither country set up a state in Gaza or west bank in the 19 years prior to the 67 war. Vicious terror attacks occured throughout that period when Israel didn't run the territories. Also 800,000 Jews of Arab lands were disposessed by the surrounding Arab nations and the ancient Jewish community of east Jerusalem was expelled by the Jordanians. Read Efraim Karsh Palestine Betrayed, Right to Exist by Yaacov Lozowick, The Rubin Report by Barry Rubin and his book, The Truth about Syria.
Blah, blah, blah. Upon gaining the U.N. resolution creating an Israeli terroritory, did the Israeli military and paramilitary units not displace 630,00 Arabs from their land over the next year plus? Yes or no. And remember, most Jewish and Israeli historians, as well as many of Israeli's former leaders agree now with this characterization of those events. That there was an ongoing contest for these lands is irrelevant to this crime against humanity. As for what other Arab countries did to Jews – the U.S. doesn't endorse those actions as we have the actions of Israel.
I'm disgusted by both sides – is that too complex a thought for you?
"Blah, blah, blah. Upon gaining the U.N. resolution creating an Israeli terroritory, did the Israeli military and paramilitary units not displace 630,00 Arabs from their land over the next year plus?"
No Israel never displaced any Palestinians. In fact, the Zionists frequently urged Palestinians not to flee the areas they secured and encouraged them to stay in their homes and communities. For example, the Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:
"We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."
Arabs left cities like Haifa, Tiberias, and the Jaffa region because they were told that "those who accepted Israeli protection would be treated as defectors when the Arab forces were victorious."
Arab leaders launched a war which resulted in a mass flight of Palestinians. They left to "avoid the battle zones, out of panic and fear and at the urging of Arab leaders who promised them a quick victory and a quick return."
"And remember, most Jewish and Israeli historians, as well as many of Israeli's former leaders agree now with this characterization of those events."
This is not the scholarly consensus. That is the view of the so-called "new historians", whose work is hotly contested. Established scholars have severely criticized them for their methods and their conclusions. The "new historians" work violates scholarly standards of research and analysis, and is driven by a political-ideological agenda.
"That there was an ongoing contest for these lands is irrelevant to this crime against humanity."
Since when was Jews wanting to live in peace with their Arab neighbors a crime against humanity?
A student of Stalin? I believe it was him who is attributed to saying (to [paraphrase) "If a lie is repeated often enough is believed". This particular lie that Israel displaced Arabs has been refuted numerous times here, but you keep ignoring it.
And it's not complex, but stupid. There is only one aggressor here, and it's the ARABS.
Great posters. Pull the media and PC veil from the face of the monsters. Spread them far and wide. Make millions of them. Staple pictures of the dead babies onto them.
Indict them for war crimes. Throw blood from a bucket onto the next dapper CAIR executive that shows up to lie to millions on TV.
If it wasn't for the Marxists and liberals who protect, nurture, enable, assist, encourage and inflame the Islamo Nazis, they would have been defeated long ago. Earlier generations of Americans defeated the Barbary pirates, the Nazis, the Communists…liberalism has made us so weak and ignorant that we are almost defeated from within. Nations fall first from within. Liberalism is a mental disease, a societal senility. Wherever it appears, chaos, degradation, poverty and destruction soon follow.
If you want a clear picture of the situation just read Son of Hamas.
Arabs put the Palis into refugee camps and kept them there for political purposes. The Arabs that stayed in Israel have more rights than most Arabs in their homelands across the Middle East… However if its only hate against the Jews that wish to propagate, stay in your ignorance!
We Americans speak of freedoms, tolerance, and diversity, yet our government makes the Zionist occupation possible against our will, with our tax money, and making us accomplices in constant murders that the Zionist regime is committing including murders of our own American citizens (search on youtube for “Rachel Corrie” video of Zionist bulldozer crushing her to death). I am ashamed as an American that our politicians are controlled by the Zionist regime to such a terrifying extent. Tens of senators, state representatives, and ambassadors to foreign countries are Jewish. While I recognize that many are honest and against the Zionist regime, I am concerned about the fair representation of our will at the highest levels of our government. Just look on Wikipedia for “List of Jewish American politicians,” and visit prince.org/msg/105/271100 to discover that all five Federal Reserve chairmen/chairwomen are Jewish, and almost all (9 out of 12) regional Fed chairmen/chairwomen are also Jewish. I never like to generalize, but Jews comprise only 2% of our population and they have so much power in the government and almost absolute power over our money supply and economic polices. I am just not comfortable that all Americans are being represented properly especially not on the Palestine occupation issue that I know most people do not support judging by the comments against the Zionist regime I hear everywhere. Urge your state representatives and senators to immediately stop any remaining support for the Zionist regime. Much of the support already stopped because of the increasing pressure on this issue, but we Americans need to completely distance ourselves from this oppressive regime and stop being accomplices in its murders! The world is also reacting. Who would want to be remembered in history as an accomplice to ruthless occupation? Many countries, companies, and countless moral individuals have already successfully implemented no relations with the Zionist government and others are implementing the same policy as we speak. Not travel there, not buy anything from it, not trade with it, not communicate with it, etc. Also do the same with any country that supports it because the Zionist government only survives because of its external supporters.
The only way to oppose the Zionist controlled media and to take each other’s comments and copy, repost, email, and otherwise distribute them to other blogs, newspaper websites, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking websites, and send/lobby to senators, state representatives and other public officials. Please do so with this comment for justice to prevail
Who Controls the U.S. Federal Reserve System (Fed)?
The Fed is divided into two parts: the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, located in Washington DC, and the Federal Reserve District Banks, located throughout the United States. If you examine the official website of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, you will see that there are five members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. You will also see that all five of the board members are Jewish. This is a numerical representation of 100%. Why is this important? It’s important because Jews only constitute about 2% of the United States population. So the odds that all five members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors would be Jewish are infinitesimally small. Here are the five members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors:
Benjamin S. Bernanke – Jewish
Donald L. Kohn – Jewish
Kevin M. Warsh – Jewish
Randall S. Kroszner – Jewish
Frederic S. Mishkin – Jewish
Now, if you examine the presidents of the twelve Federal Reserve District Banks, you will discover a similar pattern of Jewish over-representation. Here is the section of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors’ website that lists the twelve Federal Reserve District Banks and their respective presidents:
FRB of Boston: Eric S. Rosengren – Jewish
FRB of New York: Timothy F. Geithner – Jewish
FRB of Philadelphia: Charles I. Plosser – Jewish
FRB of Richmond: Jeffrey M. Lacker – Jewish
FRB of St. Louis: James B. Bullard – Jewish
FRB of Minneapolis: Gary H. Stern – Jewish
FRB of Kansas City: Thomas M. Hoenig – Jewish
FRB of Dallas: Richard W. Fisher – Jewish
FRB of San Francisco: Janet L. Yellen – Jewish
FRB of Cleveland: Sandra Pianalto – gentile
FRB of Atlanta: Dennis P. Lockhart – gentile
FRB of Chicago: Charles L. Evans – gentile
This extreme numerical over-representation of Jews among the members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Federal Reserve District Bank presidents cannot be explained away as a coincidence or as the result of mere random chance. You must ask yourself how such an incredibly small and extremely unrepresentative minority religious group that only represents about 2% of the American population could so completely dominate the highest levels of the United States Fed?
All who oppose the Zionist regime please STOP calling it “Israel” Every time you do it you reward the occupation of Palestine. Name “Israel” implies a state on the occupied territory. Call the occupiers what they really are: the Zionist regime. This way, every time you refer to it, you will imply its temporary nature (the nature of all occupying regimes). Encourage your fellow comment posters to use the name Zionist regime as well. We must also be categorically against generalizing, and recognize that many Jews are against the crimes the Zionist regime is committing in their names, and that many Jews are leading the global resistance to it. They should be proud. I wish that they finally find piece wherever they choose to live (including Palestine) through a peaceful democratic process as opposed to the Nazi-style occupation the current Zionist regime is using.
The only way to oppose the Zionist controlled media and to take each other’s comments and copy, repost, email, and otherwise distribute them to other blogs, newspaper websites, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking websites. Please do so with this comment for justice to prevail
June 17th-18th, 2015
Guy Benson & Mary Katharine Ham
June 30th, 2015
Los Angeles, CA
July 17th, 2015
Los Angeles, CA
Return to top of page
Copyright © 2015 · FRONTPAGEMAG.COM