Palestinians Without Israel

The Arab world is fighting against an independent Palestinian state with its own citizens’ lives and the lives of its children. The Arab states rejected the UN vote of 1947, which would have created a Palestinian Arab state in half of the British Mandate of Palestine–bigger than anything they could ever have gotten since then. Between 1948 and 1967, when Jordan and Egypt ruled the Arab parts of Palestine, there was no movement for a Palestinian state. The cease-fire lines that were established in 1948 were recognized by one country in the whole world: Great Britain. Today, on the other hand, the pre-1967 lines are considered holy in most of the world.

Why are there settlements? Because in 1967 the Arab states, meeting in Sudan, unanimously voted for the Three No’s of Khartoum. Had they not done so, Israel would have been willing to cede most of the territories it had conquered during the Six-Day War. Since there was no hope of doing so, those who wanted to settle were allowed to go ahead with their plans.

In 2000 and 2001, Clinton negotiated a deal that would have given the Palestinians pretty much everything they could hope for. Arafat rejected the deal.

In 2005, Israel created and independent Palestinian mini-state in Gaza. Settlers were removed kicking and screaming. The Gazans responded by electing Hamas and launching rockets aimed at Israeli civilians.

When I visited Israel in 2009, I saw Arab women with headscarves strolling down Ben Yehuda Street in Jerusalem along with all the other Israelis and the tourists. I saw members of Hare Krishna singing and dancing along the beach in Tel Aviv. I saw copies of a Hebrew-language edition of the Falun Gong newspaper “Epoch Times.” Most impressive of all, I saw a vigil in Jerusalem–not Tel Aviv–after murders had taken place at a gay counseling center in Tel Aviv. There were people with yarmulkes at the vigil. And of course there were gay-pride flags.

Israel has an annual gay-pride parade not only in Tel Aviv but in Jerusalem. Israel drafts openly gay men and women into its armed forces. Nevertheless, gay-rights organizations all over the world are anti-Israel. Organizers of gay-pride parades in Canada and Spain announced before their parades that Israelis were not welcome to march.

Women are victims of honor murders everywhere in the Arab world. Israel, on the other hand, elected Golda Meir to be its Prime Minister before any other woman in the world who was not the wife (like Sirimavo Bandaranaike) or the daughter (like Indira Gandhi, daughter of Nehru) of a previous head of government had attained such a position. Despite this, feminists everywhere are anti-Israel.

Almost all of the so-called settlers live in East Jerusalem or its suburbs. The fight about settlements is a fight to retain East Jerusalem, including the Mount Scopus campus of the Hebrew University and Hadassah Hospital. Israel has made it clear time and time again that it is eager to withdraw from most of the West Bank. “But the 1967 borders are holy,” says the world.

Fighting for the 1967 borders is a way of fighting against the creation of a Palestinian state. After all, such a state would legitimize Israel’s existence. If the Palestinians wanted a state, they could have one tomorrow–the same state they could have had in 2001 at Taba.

The way to support the Palestinians—the only way—is to support Israel.  The Arab world has done only one thing to help Palestinians: arm them.  The Palestinians have been allowed to remain in refugee camps for an unprecedented 62 years.  Israel, on the other hand, not only has Arab members of the Knesset and an Arab in its cabinet, but is the country where it is easiest for an Arab woman to become a doctor.  In addition to Arab physicians, Israel has Arab musicians.

We all know what would happen to the Palestinians if there were no Israel.  The neighboring states would subjugate them.  It is true that at the moment, Jordan and Egypt are not interested in annexing Gaza and the West Bank.  In the case of Egypt, it is because the government doesn’t want a violent minority in the country.  In the case of Jordan, which already has a Palestinian majority, the government fears it would be overthrown. But if there were no Israel, the Palestinian issue would go away and the land would be fought over by Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia.  What would happen to al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock?  Rival groups of Muslims would blow them up—preferably at a moment when there were lots of worshipers within the buildings, just as they do in Iraq and Pakistan.

Nowadays, Arabs from anywhere in the world can choose to be treated in Israeli hospitals.  Some of them agree to make the sacrifice of temporarily recognizing Israel in order to get medical treatment.  Then they have to live with their moment of weakness for the rest of their lives.

It is easy to jump on the bandwagon.  It is easy to condemn Israel for its real, its debatable, and its imagined moral failings.  Doing so does not help anybody.  It is merely an easy way to feel superior.

Only Israel can allow a Palestinian state to exist.  It tried to do so in the past and failed.  Its critics want it to keep on failing.

George Jochnowitz is a Professor Emeritus of Linguistics at the College of Staten Island, CUNY.

  • Chezwick_Mac

    Jordan will soon elect a Muslim Brotherhood majority to its Parliament. Egypt will likely follow suit. There is every indication that both states will abrogate their respective peace-treaties with Israel. The lesson won't be lost on anyone with even just a shred of objectivity: Peace deals negotiated between Israel and her Arab neighbors are only as lasting as the Arab government in power when the deal was signed.

  • PAthena

    The so-called "Palestinians" are not "Palestinian" but Arab whose only justification for existence is the destruction of Israel. Giving them another state would just weaken Israel (as having withdrawn from southern Lebanon and Gaza has done) – the Arabs do not deserve yet another state.
    Calling Arabs "Palestinian" comes from the phony history and propaganda of Gamal Nasser and the Soviet Union, who in 1964, founded the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO). Since 135 A.D., when the Roman Emperor Hadrian, after defeating the last Jewish rebellion under Bar Kochba, changed the name of Judea to "Palestina" in order to eradicate all memory of Judea and the Jews (he outlawed Judaism). Since that time, "Palestine" has been synonymous with "land of the Jews" or "the Holy Land," and "Palestinian" with "Jew." That is why the Zionists wanted to go to "Palestine", and Great Britain was awarded the "Palestine Mandate" after World War I to be "homeland of the Jews."

  • LastManStanding

    The remark about "gay" organizations being anti-Israel may make sense if you know that in 1990, James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, explained on Jordanian TV how the Arab Lobby can match Jewish organizational success in America. Zogby and his allies recognized that the campus and the media, unlike Capitol Hill, are two battle grounds that Arabists could win by allying themselves with the American left.
    Moreover, America was experiencing a significant increase in foreign born Muslim students as well as increased Muslim immigration (many from countries with a culture of vicious anti-Semitism). Zogby focused on forming alliances with Marxist professors, die-hard socialist activists, African- American student groups, gay-lesbian groups and, most importantly, Jewish progressives.
    Perhaps "gays" see themselves as not quite accepted by the mainstream, and therefore they join the general stew of the alienated – namely the left.

    • MixMChess

      I still cannot understand why any gay rights advocate would be anti-Israel. Israel is even more progressive than the United States and some European countries when it comes to gay rights. In fact, IIsrael is the only country in the Middle East to protect the equal rights of homosexuals under its anti-discrimination laws. In other Arab/Islamic countries, homosexuals are prosecuted under the law and persecuted by their neighbors. For example, homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran.

      In fact the abuse of gays in the Arab/Muslim world has lead many gay Arabs/Muslims (including Palestinians) to literally flee and seek refuge in Israel. A young gay Palestinian named Tarek provided the details for one such story of abuse in the May 2003 issue of the Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide "Upon suspicion of his homosexuality, Tarek was sentenced to a reeducation camp, run by Muslim clerics under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, where he was tortured for two months."

  • Amused

    From their own mouth:
    "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian
    state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of
    Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference
    between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for
    political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of
    a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit
    the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism…
    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined
    borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian,
    I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
    However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will
    not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." – PLO executive
    committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch
    newspaper Trouw.

  • Amused

    "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for
    all-out war, a war which will last for generations." –
    Yasser Arafat, former leader of the PLO.

    "We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
    Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by
    psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
    take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." – Yasser Arafat,
    former leader of the PLO.

  • Amused

    ……so what has changed ??

  • northwoods

    Israel has been taken over by religious fanatics that more than match the ayatollahs. We
    have former Chief Rabbi Yosef, leader of the Shaa Party, claiming that non-Jews were created, like donkeys to serve the Jews. The government was silent on his comments. We the popular book "Torat Hamelech", written by two Rabbis and supported by many more, which is a justification for Jews to kill non-Jews and even their babies pre-
    emptively since non-Jews were born "uncompassionate". What sort of anti- is it when it covers the 98% of the world that isn't Jewish? Other Rabbis call for the annihilation of all Arabs, using Palestinian children as "human shields" etc, etc,. It appears that the "chosen people" mantra has morphed into something quite frightening and I can only pity the Palestinians living with it.

    • EVAbeliever

      Northwoods: While you are accurate in what some fool Rabbis said you also, unknowingly, highlight the difference between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews denounced those Rabbis as being idiots and the Jews that listen to them still do not go out and blow themselves up in search of eternal martyrdom. Everyone called Meir Kahane a radical but his view that Arabs will never accept a Jewish State has been proven accurate. When an Imam preaches death the Arabs say "how" and not "shut up".

      • northwoods

        EVABELIEVER- I disagree. The fool Rabbis you speak about in many cases are part of the government or paid by the government. There statements show a rather Hitleresque view of a Jewish "master race". The government of which Rabbi Yosef is a part was tottally silent on his comments. How many Shaa's and settlers believe his words. The people that believe these comments won't become suicide bombers yet, instead the can attack the closest non-Jews around them with impunity and the government allows it. I heard Meir Kahane speak on two occasions and I would not call him a radical. I would call him psychotic. If he is Israel's hero it is doomed. If you were in the place of of the Palestinians wouldn't you feel animosity towards the Israelis. I doubt it helps Israel's cause if its religious fanatics are matching the Jihadists in words and increasingly in actions.
        The sympathy I used to have for Israel is evaporating since both the Arab world and Israel are both crazed in their religious fanaticism. A pox on both your houses!
        Sadly, I may fear Israel more with its nucleur weapons and its arrogance to use them.

        • MixMChess

          "The fool Rabbis you speak about in many cases are part of the government or paid by the government. There statements show a rather Hitleresque view of a Jewish "master race". The government of which Rabbi Yosef is a part was tottally silent on his comments."

          See my above comment, the government (Netanyahu himself) and nearly every mainstream Israeli and Jewish organization condemned Rabbi Yosef and others on the "far right." These extremists do not represent Israel or her policies.

          "The people that believe these comments won't become suicide bombers yet, instead the can attack the closest non-Jews around them with impunity and the government allows it."

          Wrong, the IDF has actually increased security for Palestinians who faced potential settler violence. The IDF has arrested and imprisoned Jews who attempted any attacks against Palestinians. Interestingly enough, from 2000 – 2010, 242 Israeli settlers were killed by Palestinians, while only 47 Palestinians were killed by Israelis. Most of the Palestinians were killed while attempting to infiltrate settlements or carry out terrorist attacks.

          "I doubt it helps Israel's cause if its religious fanatics are matching the Jihadists in words and increasingly in actions."

          Wrong, again, even the notoriously anti-Israel UN noted that since 2007 there has been a decrease in violence (from settlers and others on the "far right") against Palestinians. A few outcast Jewish extremists is nothing compared to the hate and vitriol which is mainstream among Palestinians and the Arab/Muslim nations.

        • CanadConserv

          The vast majority of rabbis entirely rebuke the views of the very extremists you cite. So do the vast majority of israelis and jews worldwide. To suggest otherwise is express wishful thinking by someone desperately looking to find equivalance between democratic Israel, with Arabs in government, on the Supreme Court, active in media and academia, with depraved Palestinian society and government. Such equivalence is so absurd as to be satire in Mad Magazine.

    • bard

      Some of the ultra-orthodox demand that women go to the back of the public buses etc. There does seem to be a tendency to get more and more strict. Some of the orthodox would like to live under talmudic law, rather than the laws currently in place. The problem with that is that you start forbidding people from working or traveling on the sabbath and putting other restrictions on them. Another problem I've heard is that some of the religious schools neglect worldly subjects that could equip their graduates for jobs in a modern economy. Still, that is just part of the picture.

    • Radegunda

      It's the "Palestinians" who use their own children as human shields. Didn't you know that? They also instruct their little tots to aspire to be suicide bombers.

      Meanwhile, Israelis give medical treatment to "Palestinian" children in Israelis hospitals.

      As a famous person said, there will be peace in the Middle East when the Arabs start to love their own children more than they hate Jews. But as long as their religion teaches them to hate Jews and to kill them — which it does — there isn't much hope of peace.

    • MixMChess

      "Israel has been taken over by religious fanatics that more than match the ayatollahs."

      Nope, the vast majority of Israelis are moderate. The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs found that less than 8% of Israelis identify themselves as Ultra-Orthodox and that the political and religious views of the that group were incredibly diverse. In the government, the (right-wing) religious parties are minorities in the Knesset. For example, Shas currently holds about 11 of the 120 seats.

    • MixMChess

      "We have former Chief Rabbi Yosef, leader of the Shaa Party, claiming that non-Jews were created, like donkeys to serve the Jews. The government was silent on his comments."

      Wrong, nearly all mainstream Jewish organizations (Anti defamation league and American Jewish committee) in and out of Israel criticized Rabbi Yosef's remarks. Additionally, the Israeli government (Netanyahu himself) has condemned Rabbi Yosef's remarks on several occassions.

      "We the popular book "Torat Hamelech", written by two Rabbis and supported by many more, which is a justification for Jews to kill non-Jews and even their babies pre-emptively since non-Jews were born "uncompassionate"."

      The book only has support among a the far right-wing such as the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva in Yitzchar which published it. Most of Israel's rabbis have condemned the book – some even went so far as to say it should be banned and the authors thrown in jail.

      "Other Rabbis call for the annihilation of all Arabs, using Palestinian children as "human shields" etc, etc,."

      Actually, only one rabbi (again from Yitzchar) endorsed this idea. Most rabbis condemn violence against anyone especially Palestinians. In fact, violence against Palestinians has been harshly condemned by leading religious figures in the West Bank, including Rabbi Menachem Froman who said: "Targeting Palestinians and their property is a shocking thing, (…) It's an act of hurting humanity. (…) This builds a wall of fire between Jews and Arabs." Additionally, "the umbrella organization of municipal councils of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Yesha Council and former Knesset member and settler Hanan Porat has also condemned violence against Palestinians."

      The fact remains that the Jewish religious fanatics are few and far between and are quickly condemned by mainstream Israelis and Jews. Whereas, religious extremism, xenophobia and racism is the norm for the Palestinians.

    • aspacia

      These Jewish fanatics are numbered at 8,000 in a state of 7 million. Also, Israel often arrests and incarcerates these nuts. Compared to the Muslim world this is nothing.

      • freedemocracy

        To northwood:

        Second, you pick some obscure mistranslation by radical anti-Religious extremist newspapers such Haaretz that claims to say many "thing" that Rabbi Yosef supposedly "said." In fact, R. Yosef appeared on Arab TV to clear it all and said that whatever he said was specifically intended on terrorists per se, no "non-jews" nonsense – which is a usual Nazi anti-Jewish invention trying to make it Jews vs "us." An old fascist lie, and racist 'mainstream' Arabs are picking up this anti-Jewish fascism idea.
        Your language shows again a Neo-Nazi tatse with this "chosen people" taken issue, Who's invented the idea of 'chosen people" if not the Bible, hel by Christians nd Jews as well as the Koran when talkin about "Banu Israil", you amke it sound as IF it's a "self made idea." Besides, if a "racially" German or one of the 'Arab race" converts to Juadism he's as much a member of the 'chosen people' [whatever that means] as any other Jew.

    • freedemocracy

      To northwood:

      First, you deny the truth of [Arab leadership's crime of 'ethnic cleansing] its own people) Arab leaders calling upon the Arab "palestinians' to leave pre-1948 war, including by the Mufti al-husseini, with "promises" of annihiliating the Jews [throwing them into the sea], so they can 'come back.'
      Yet, Arab nations persecute the Arab Palestinians, just as the Apartheid racist Arab world mistreat any "others" in their midst [whether there are: Copts, Kurds, Berbers, Africans, Persian].

    • freedemocracy

      To northwood:

      Third, if one "rabbi" says something radical, there are immediatly hundreds of Rabbis contesting him and isolating him, Where is that equivelance in the radical mainstreem Arab Muslim? Even moderate Fatah PA official TV lets Mullahs preaching "annihilate all Jews" (look at palwatch.org documentaries).

      Fourth, When will Arab leaders finally blame the Arab parents for introducing their children into a jihad death cult and letting them be used as human shields by their own Arab side???

    • freedemocracy

      To northwood:

      First, you deny the truth of [Arab leadership's crime of 'ethnic cleansing] its own people) Arab leaders calling upon the Arab "palestinians' to leave pre-1948 war, including by the Mufti al-husseini, with "promises" of annihiliating the Jews [throwing them into the sea], so they can 'come back.'
      Yet, Arab nations persecute the Arab Palestinians, just as the Apartheid racist Arab world mistreat any "others" in their midst [whether there are: Copts, Kurds, Berbers, Africans, Persian].

    • freedemocracy

      to Northwoods and the lying propaganda about so-called "non-jews"

      Second, you pick some obscure mistranslation by radical anti-Religious extremist newspapers such Haaretz that claims to say many "thing" that Rabbi Yosef supposedly "said." In fact, R. Yosef appeared on Arab TV to clear it all and said that whatever he said was specifically intended on terrorists per se, no "non-jews" nonsense – which is a usual Nazi anti-Jewish invention trying to make it Jews vs "us." An old fascist lie, and racist 'mainstream' Arabs are picking up this anti-Jewish fascism idea.
      Your twisted language shows again a Neo-Nazi tatse with this "chosen people" taken issue, Who's invented the idea of 'chosen people" if not the Bible, hel by Christians nd Jews as well as the Koran when talkin about "Banu Israil", you amke it sound as IF it's a "self made idea." Besides, if a "racially" German or one of the 'Arab race" converts to Juadism he's as much a member of the 'chosen people' [whatever that means] as any other Jew.

    • freedemocracy

      to northwoods' propaganda:

      Third, if one "rabbi" says something radical, there are immediatly hundreds of Rabbis contesting him and isolating him, Where is that equivelance in the radical mainstreem Arab Muslim? Even moderate Fatah PA official TV lets Mullahs preaching "annihilate all Jews" (look at palwatch.org documentaries).

      Fourth, When will Arab leaders finally blame the Arab parents for introducing their children into a jihad death cult and letting them be used as human shields by their own Arab side???

  • ObamaYoMoma

    What is occurring in Israel is not a conflict between Israel and the Palestinians or even Israel and Arabs. Instead it is a genocidal jihad being waged by the Islamic world via their proxies the so-called Palestinians, and that genocidal jihad being waged by the Islamic world against the infidel Jews in Israel is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually against Israel no matter what as long as Israel continues to exist and regardless of any and all fake peace processes used to weaken Israel and dupe useful idiots. Furthermore, that jihad being waged against Israel is a smaller component of the greater global jihad at large that is being waged not only against Israel, but also against all unbelievers around the world, and that jihad like the jihad being waged against Israel is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually against all unbelievers as long as unbelievers continue to exist that haven’t been forced to submit to the authority of Islam.

    Nevertheless, if you read the above article you would never know any of this. In fact, you would never know that the same jihad that targets Israel also targets all unbelievers around the world. Perhaps if people were made to understand that the same jihad that targets Israel also targets them as well, maybe they wouldn’t be so eager to bash Israel.

    Indeed, as long as Israel supporters continue presenting the jihad being waged against Israel in the terms of a conflict between Israelis and Arabs instead of the context of it being a genocidal jihad, they will continue losing the propaganda war. As a matter of fact, the definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over and over again.

  • JosephWiess

    It will never happen, because if Palestine existed, there would be peace, and muslims don't want peace. They live for war.

  • USMCSniper

    It is a matter of record that Palestinians are only proxy terrorists who strap munitions on their own women and children and send them out on homicide-suicide missions to murder other innocent women and children in markets, restuarants, on school buses, and in their homes. The Palestinians in their own words and by their actions are committed to the genocide of the Jewish people therefore, have foreited their rights to even exist at all let alone having a UN and US sanctioned terrorist state of their own.

    • baldarab

      it is a matter of record and fact that israel has butchered scores of palestinian children in schools, hospitals, checkpoints and borders.

      let's get over this crap and figure out how two nations can live together (maybe even as one) based on mutual respect.

      • MixMChess

        "it is a matter of record and fact that israel has butchered scores of palestinian children in schools, hospitals, checkpoints and borders."

        No its not a matter of record or fact, its just a fabrication that you crafted to defame Israel. The truth is that Israel has used enormous restraint in trying to quell the terrorist wars launched by the Palestinians.

        Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. It could have attacked Palestinian cities the same way the US attacked in Afghanistan and Iraq. Instead, Israel chose tactics that would minimize civilian casualties (such as door to door arrests and the use of ground units) even as it risked greater casualties among its own troops.

        Professor Michael Walzer of Princeton has noted the following: "During battle, the Israeli army regularly accepted risks to its own men in order to reduce the risks that it posed on the civilian population." Contrast that with how other warfare is conducted and "and the crucial mark of that contrast is the relatively small number of civilian casualties in the Palestinian cities despite the fierceness of the fighting."

  • Perry J Greenbaum

    This is a noteworthy plea for the defense of Israel. Of course, the nation of Israel has a right to exist, preferably in peace, like all nations. I too have visited Isreal a number of times, and much can be said about the nation's accomplishments in science and technology.

    As for making peace with its neighbors and from within, many political analysts agree that both sides made mistakes early on. We cannot return to the past, but we can try to find a solution on which both sides can agree.

    You're right that it's primarily up to both sides to come to the table in good faith. That will take political will and support on both sides. How that will come about is anyone's guess.

    Even so, lost in the rhetoric by so many concerned is that the Palestinians are real people, suffering, like so many, from poor leadership. A hardened response by both sides, and by the international community, does little to help the people on the ground. I do not believe most Palestinians are terrorists. But I do believe that they often feel hopeless and betrayed.

    What is your option for these people today? And for their children? More of the same?

    • George Jochnowitz

      What's their option? They can have a state tomorrow. All they need to do is recognize Israel's right to exist and stop quibbling about the disputed 3% of territory.
      Has there ever before in history been an independence movement that rejected independence because of a boundary dispute? Has there ever been an independence movement that didn't recognize the existence of the state it was trying to split apart from?

      • Perry J Greenbaum

        I am not familiar with all the political machinations on both sides. I leave that to the politicians.

        You are correct that this situation is unique, but then again this sliver of a land in the Middle East is fraught with so much religious symbolism. You must agree that poses a problem for negotiation, when you have competing narratives for the same land. How to get beyond that would take courage on both sides, as was the case with Sadat and Begin. But, then again, some think that was a mistake. I would think a cold peace is better than no peace.

        • EVAbeliever

          Perry: You are speaking from within a bubble of liberal ignorance. "when you have competing narratives for the same land"? exposes your belief that both sides have legitimate rights to the identical piece of land. The truth is hard to except without losing the desire to be fair and balanced. You refuse to accept that the Arabs have consistently chosen War over Peace. Courage? They were given Gaza when the Israeli Government had the courage to evict its own citizens from cities (not settlements as imagined from old Westerns) in order to give the Gazan Arabs a chance to prove they want to live peacefully side by side. What did the Gazan Arabs do? They elected Hamas as their leaders. The same Hamas that has sworn to exterminate every Jew. So who needs to show courage? The Israelis have shown enough courage and need not show any more. If the Arabs want peace let them drop their weapons, shut their Imam's mouths and state in no uncertain terms that Israel is no longer their enemy. Until then Israel need not negotiate a thing.

          • Perry J Greenbaum

            You are entitled to your views, but in fact you don't know me or my beliefs, and to ascribe certain qualities to my views is to make an ill-informed moral judgment on me. I take no offense, however, since such is the wonder of democracy, where all views are welcome. What I find suspect, however, is why people choose to mask their identities if they are so sure of their convictions.

            Be well.

          • EVAbeliever

            I did not attack you from behind a veil. So why do you follow the traditional approach of attacking the messenger? And you can be a staunch conservative for all I care, the views you express are typical of how a liberal American Jew views the Arab-Israeli conflict i.e. The Arabs may be wrong but Israel has to take its fair share of the blame; and if they would only talk it out peace would be possible. That only works if it were true. There is real hate on the Arab side and that has caused every War. There can be no trust until the Arabs prove they are sincere. Unfortunately, the Islamist fanatics refuse to advance into the 21st century and accept the possibility that more than one approach to God exists. And any Jew should be aware that Muslims never were too friendly to Jews under their rule. Yes, during the time of Maimonides Jews enjoyed relative freedom but they were still subjected to dhimitude so that is not the way to go. It is difficult for me to accept that another jew can so easily dismiss the statements made by Abbas, Erekat and other Arabs. "There will never be a single Jew allowed on Arab land". "There will never be peace until all 7 million Arab refugees return to their homes inside the Green Line". They mean what they say. It's not a negotiating ploy. There can be no peace until they rescind those statements with concrete action.
            Be Well too.

    • aspacia

      How about stop shooting rockets and attacking Israeli citizens. If not, Bye, Bye. Frankly, anymore I do not care for a people who do nothing to better humanity. Contrasted with Israel, the Arabs are a menace and will be like a wild ass among humanity.

  • waterwillows

    Perry J Greenbaum,

    If the Palestinians are suffering is it because the west is suffering. We have placed in leadership positions, people who do not often get in touch with reality. They continue to paint the world with their own fantasy brush. How they would like it to be, and how it really is, has not much in common.
    There is sand thrown in the eyes of people. Is is deliberate? I don't know. But until we can alleviate the 'suffering' of the sensible people of the west, a lot of the world will continue in their misery. And that includes Israel, who has had much misery from the daydreams of nonsense, inflicted on them.
    The looney left for all their socialist/communist ideals will never erase self interest from the people of the world. There is no politics that has the ability to do so. It may supress for a time, but it is always doomed from it's birth to failure.

    • Perry J Greenbaum

      Yes, of course, there remains much suffering in the West, and in much of the world in general. Yet, I would think that good policies can still alleviate suffering and better the lives of many people. Politicians and other elites have the power to do good, if they choose to do so. But then again such policies are not so common today, as other interests have risen to the top of the agenda. As for Left or Right, I do not think Left or Right are as important distinctions as they once were. The divides are between rich and poor.

      • EVAbeliever

        Why is it that Tikkun Olam blinds every Jew to reality? Politicians and other elites? What in the World is that? Have you accepted that any human is more elite than yourself? Saying Politician and elite in the same sentence is an oxymoron. You are subconsciously accepting a caste system in your opinion. I don't accept that anyone is superior and therefore I can demand that the Arabs make concrete changes before Israel sits down to negotiate.
        1. Change their flag to not include Israel's current location
        2. Change their charter
        3. Change their entire educational system to reflect concrete acceptance of Israel
        4. Ban hate speech
        5. Acknowledge that the Holocaust was a fact and not a fantasy
        Israel should not have to negotiate for the right to exist. The Arabs are the ones that need to prove they want to live in peace. And until they do I see no reason for Israel to do anything.

  • jeff

    Israel made a catastrophic mistake when it ceded the Sinai to Egypt under the Camp David Accords. It lost three quarters of its land mass, and got in return 30 years of a cold peace from a corrupt and cynical Egyptian government. But America largely deserves the blame, for relentlessly pressuring Israel to give up its land due to its hopeless addiction to arab oil.

  • ziontruth

    From the article:

    "We all know what would happen to the Palestinians if there were no Israel. The neighboring states would subjugate them."

    There has never been any other purpose.

    No history, no distinctive language, no culture (unless you consider the heritage of suicide-murder to be "culture," as the Marxists do), not even a racial unity (hair colors all the way from coal to blond, eyes from deepest black to brightest blue) do the so-called "Palestinians" possess. Nothing. No single positive trait that could make them a nation. Only negative concepts. Only "resistance." Only being the "victims" of Zionist "colonialism." Only the Nakba. Only the rallying cry for millions and millions of Jew-haters.

    But negative concepts do not a nation make. As a nation they are a fraud, a fake, a fiction, a fabrication, a fantasy, a forgery. They were conceived as a ruse and are so to this day. When the Arab states realized how their ambition to take away one tiny state from the Jews and give it to a nation that already has over twenty states over a huge mass of land could not pass muster in any court of law, or just in the court of human decency for that matter, they concocted this fiction that turns the truth of the Jewish David against the Arab Goliath on its head.

    A lie remains a lie, and the truth of the Arab/Islamic imperialist aggression against the one and only Jewish state remains no matter how many people accept the lie, and no matter how important those people might be. The Sudeten-Arabs are dubbed a nation for a particular purpose, to be discarded once it has been achieved (God forbid).

    And the only ones who can rightly take the name of Palestinians upon themselves are the Jews. Because 3,000 years of positive traits tying the Jewish nation to this land cannot be denied, ever.

  • Glennd1

    Of course, none of this forgives Israel for ethnically cleansing its territory of 630,000 Arabs in '48 and '49, and then refusing any Arab to return to their homes. Everything else is just eyewash to distract you. Whether the Palestinians would do anything good with their homes is irrelevant – they were swept away like an inconvenience in a crime against humanity. And this is largely agreed to by Israeli historians, such as Benny Morris. Wake up Americans, you are backing the worst sort of war criminals. Let them fight it out amongst themselves without our backing either side. Or they can choose to negotiate – either way, the U.S. has no business siding with Israel.

    • LastManStanding

      The Israelis declared independence, they were invaded by the surrounding countries, and the Arab armies called on the Arab inhabitants to get out of the way of the invasion. Also, some of the Arab inhabitants were guilty of massacres against Jews. When the war was over, the Israelis could have allowed these Arabs back to their homes, but it is understandable that they did not.
      We (the U.S.) side with both India and Pakistan, though there was huge bloodshed that led to Hindus fleeing to India and Moslems fleeing to Pakistan when these nations were formed. Nobody talks of repatriating Hindus to India.
      After WWII, Germans were expelled from lands where they had lived for ages. Again, nobody is telling Russia to bring the Germans back, or the Czech republic to repopulate the Sudetenland with Germans.
      Nobody in the U.S. is telling Saudi Arabia to let in the Jews again, (there used to be a significant Jewish population in the Arabian peninsula and all of North Africa).

      • baldarab

        what would you do if someone you didn't invite to your house comes in, butchers 2 of your children, kicks you out of all but your bathroom and one bedroom and declares the rest his? would you just sit there and accept it?

        • ziontruth

          The Arab settler-colonist invaders in Palestine striving to steal land from the indigenous Palestinians (=the Jews) would do well to ask themselves those questions.

        • MixMChess

          You are making a completely incorrect analogy. Recall, Zionist leaders (from Theodore Herzl to Chaim Weizman to David Ben Gurion) were dedicated to peaceful CO-EXISTENCE with the local Arab residents and to having them "benefit" from Zionist development.

          On the eve of war in 1948, the Zionists stressed that they intended to include Palestinian Arabs in their future state and treat them as full and equal citizens. Israel's Declaration of Independence states the following:

          "In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to return to the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, with full and equal citizenship and due representation in its bodies and institutions – provisional or permanent."

          Israel never engaged in any ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians (via forced transfer or other means). In fact, during the 1948 War, Zionists frequently URGED Palestinians not to flee and to STAY in their homes and communities.

          It was the Arabs who left on their own accord because the invading Arab armies promised to "exterminate the Jews" and "push the Jews into the sea." Recall, the Arab States threatened to treat any Arab who accepted Israeli protection as "defectors" who would be "severely punished" when "the Arab forces were victorious."

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Uhm…I hate to rain on your clueless parade but Israel didn’t ethnically cleansed any Arabs. They were urged and coerced to leave to make way for the invading Arab armies that were going to conquer Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Indeed, many of the Arabs felt compelled to leave because they were afraid they would be declared apostates and enemies of Islam and face a execution if they stayed. They were also told that they could return to Israel as soon as the genocidal holocaust of Jews had been accomplished to claim the property of the dead Jews as war booty.

      Now, on the other hand, approximately 860,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from the Arab countries subsequent to the war with nothing but the shirts on their backs, as they not only had their property stolen from them, but many of them were also killed in pogroms during the process as well.

      Oh, by the way, Benny Morris’s work had been deconstructed and proven to be a fraud by Efraim Karsh. http://www.meforum.org/711/benny-morriss-reign-of

      Here again my observation applies: Show me a Jew hating Israel basher and I will show you someone completely obvious of Islam and the greater global jihad at large being waged against all unbelievers. Likewise, show me someone completely obvious of Islam and the greater global jihad at large being waged against all unbelievers and I’ll show you a Jew hating Israel basher.

      The genocidal jihad being waged against Israel by the Islamic world via their proxies the so-called Palestinians is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually against Israel no matter what as long as Israel continues to exist and regardless of any and all fake peace processes used to weaken Israel and to dupe useful idiots like you. Just like the greater global jihad at large, of which the jihad being waged against Israel is a smaller component, will also continue to be waged perpetually against unbelievers as long as unbelievers continue to exist that haven’t been force to submit to the authority of Islam.

      • Radegunda

        In short: The root of the Middle East conflict is the genocidal hatred that's written into the heart of Islam, beginning with Mohammed's tantrum when the local Jews wouldn't bow down to him.

        If Muslims can free themselves from their obsessive, doctrinal hatred, there might be hope for peace. But very few have shown an inclination to do so — and some who have seemed to do so have suddenly turned on their Jewish neighbors, employers, doctors, et al., to fulfill the Islamic command to kill Jews, just because they're Jews.

    • MixMChess

      "Of course, none of this forgives Israel for ethnically cleansing its territory of 630,000 Arabs in '48 and '49, and then refusing any Arab to return to their homes."

      Funny, because Israel begged the Palestinians to stay in their homes and become part of the Israeli state. Of course, the Palestinians left on their own accord to allow the Arab Nations to exterminate the Jews. Even Benny Morris has admitted as much. Israel offered to repatriate Arabs starting in 1950 (offering to repatriate over 300,000 Arabs), but the Arab Nations refused. Weird how facts get in the way of your argument, huh Glenn?

      • baldarab

        israel's begging the arabs to stay involved massive terrorist attacks by the irgun, by hagana, involved butchering people living in arab villages by their hundreds, involved marching them out of their lands. remind me never to accept you begging me to stay in your house!

        • Glennd1

          Omigosh, someone actually knows the facts. Most of these morons are Dershowitz blowing know-nothings who are parroting tropes disproved as much as 20 years ago by Israeli govt documents that were declassified. It's so sickening how anti-intellectual these idiots are.

          Fyi, I despise the path that the Palestinians have taken, and as long as they are Islamists instead of real freedom fighters, they are just as morally repulsive as the Israelis. Imagine that – I can see both moral wrongs, it isn't that hard to do.

          • MixMChess

            "It's so sickening how anti-intellectual these idiots are."

            Pot. Kettle. Black.

            "Imagine that – I can see both moral wrongs, it isn't that hard to do."

            The goal of the Palestinians is the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews. Israel is trying to make PEACE with its Palestinian (and Arab) neighbors. There is NO moral comparison between the two. Try again loser.

        • MixMChess

          Wrong, the Irgun, was never involved in massive terror attacks and never butchered any innocent civilians. In fact, the Irgun was a paramilitary group formed in the aftermath of the 1929 Arab riots, in which over 100 Jews were murdered and hundreds others injured and maimed. The Irgun's original purpose was to protect Jews from the murderous Arab mobs.

          Recall, the Palestinians had been terrorizing the Jews since at least 1920. The riots of April, 1920 resulted in the death of 5 Jews, hundreds more injured and the forced evacuation of over 300. The Jaffa riots of 1921 were a series of violent anti-Jewish riots in which Arab mobs murdered Jewish inhabitants, destroyed property and engaged in wholesale looting. Over 40 Jews were murdered and hundreds other severely injured. The Hebron and Safed Massacres of 1929 left 80 Jews murdered and hundreds others injured. Need I really go on?

    • ziontruth

      "Of course, none of this forgives Israel for…"

      Another day, another self-appointed judge. I'd take you seriously if you showed the same zeal with far greater issues than Israel, but instead you prefer to focus on the one state that is committed to a modicum of civility. You are cowards.

      "Whether the [Phakestinians] would do anything good with their homes is irrelevant…"

      It is highly relevant. We don't want rockets lobbed on our homes from theirs, for one thing.

      "And this is largely agreed to by Israeli historians, such as Benny Morris."

      Funny you should mention Benny Morris. Morris has, over the years, adopted the view that, whatever Israel's failings in the War of Independence, everything was born out of the necessity of survival and therefore there is nothing for Israel to atone for. In a very traditional Jewish way of thinking, he has stated that Israel was justified because, had the Arabs won, there would have been another genocide of the Jews. Morris, then, is far from the man you would wish to recruit for support of your anti-Zionist moralizations.

      • Glennd1

        So you join Morris in admitting that Israel did engage in ethnic cleansing, but that it was justified? Okay, fine, Israel is a war criminal state with an excuse. My point is that MY COUNTRY has no business supporting such anathema – and it has never been in our interests to do so.

        • ziontruth

          Israel did not engage in premeditated ethnic cleansing. It was a result of the events of the War of Independence. Three main things happened to the Arab settlers during that war:

          1) Many fled because their leaders told them to, with the promise they'd come back after the war was finished, to take all the spoils. This happened again in July 2006, when Nasrallah told the Arabs of the Galilee to leave and await victory, only this time they were wiser.

          2) Some fled in the fog of war. Who wouldn't when the uncertainties of wartime loomed?

          3) Some were made to flee because that was the only way of neutralizing their war effort. For example, a village like Iraq Suweidan had to be cleared of inhabitants because they were shooting at Jewish convoys.

          The point is, none of these three consequences amount to a premeditated act of ethnic cleansing; it was wartime activity and the necessities of survival.

          "My point is that MY COUNTRY has no business supporting such anathema…"

          No problem. We could do without "aid" that comes at the cost of telling the Jews where to build on their own land.

        • MixMChess

          Glenn, you can't even get Benny Morris correct. The Zionists frequently urged Palestinians not to flee the areas they secured and encouraged them to stay in their homes and communities. Arabs left cities like Haifa, Tiberias, and the Jaffa region because they were told that those who accepted Israeli protection would be treated as defectors when the Arab forces were victorious.

          Historians AGREE that Israel did NOT have a deliberate policy for expelling Arabs during the 1948 War. Even Benny Morris denies that such a policy existed: ""There was no Zionist policy to expel the Arabs or intimidate them into flight."

          Of course, It was the Arabs, not the Jews, who were on a campaign to forcibly expel or exterminate the Jews from the region. Palestinian leaders repeatedly stressed that they wanted "Palestine" to be a home for Arabs-ONLY and that they wanted to forcibly expel the Jews. You're hero, Benny Morris, even admits as much: "Arab representatives told the UN that they 'rejected partition and advocated a unitary, democratic state from which [the Jews] would be expelled and where the remaining Jews would have no political rights.'"

          The figurehead for the Palestinians, The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (who was also a Nazi collaborator), stated the following: "I declare a holy war, my Muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!"

          Arab Higher Committee in 1947 stated that: "The Arabs have taken into their own hands the final solution of the Jewish problem. The problem will be solved only in blood and fire. The Jews will soon be driven out."

    • aspacia

      No, you are backing the most intolerant of all groups, the Muslims who massacre nonbelievers, and you will be included if they have the chance.

  • Amused

    360,000 arabs left Israelo under their own steam in 1948 . Their arab/muslim brothers in Jordan , Egypt , Lebanon , Syria and Iraq admonished them to leave , lest they be destroyed along with the jews , for they had declared war on Israel; in ther instant of it's recognition . They could return AFTER Isrtael's destruction was accomplished . This never happened , the Arab Nations were defeated , and again ….and again …and again . So what became of thes 360,000 arabs who left ? They were put in refugee camps in Lebanon , Syria and Jordan , were they were not allowed jobs ,nor to own property , but just to remain in those camps as poster boys for the Pan-Arab dream- Israel's ultimate destruction. They revolted in Jordan and King Hussein killed 10,000 of them , this became known as Black September , and a subsequent movement was named after it . In Lebanon they instigated a civil war .

    • Glennd1

      Your narrative has been completely disproved BY ISRAELI historians. Since the release of classified documents which contain contemporaneous accounts of the military, govt and para-military organizations involved. it's clear as day that the Israeli's committed ethnic cleansing. You are parroting lies – and you don't even know it, you ignorant fool.

      • MixMChess

        I'll make this easier for you Glenn, here is what you should have said: I can't disprove your facts and I lack the intellectual capacity to engage in meaningful discussion so I'm just going to call you a liar!

        Seriously though… the "New historians" work (which you allude to) is hotly contested. Established scholars have severely criticized them for their methods and their conclusions. As Aharon Megged pointed out, "It would be erroneous to call this [new history] 'myth debunking.' The work done before our eyes is merely the rewriting of the one-hundred-year Zionist history in the spirit of its enemies and opponents."

        Even Benny Morris has moved away from much of the "New Historians" work and positions. Try reading Efraim Karsh who completely debunks nearly all of the "New Historians" work: "The theses of the 'new historians' and their research methods have precisely been questioned by fellow historians…Violating every tenet of bona fide research, the misrepresentation of the historical record by the 'new historians' has ranged from the more 'innocent' act of reading into documents what is not there, to tendentious truncation of documents in a way that distorts their original meaning, to 'creative rewriting' of original texts by putting words in peoples' mouths and/or giving false descriptions of the contents of these documents"

  • Amused

    Get your history right Glennd 1 , or take of your blinders …there was no ethnic cleansing .And the arabs of that time were indeed allowed to return . Today the number of "so-called palestinians " descended from the original 360,00 is approximately 3.2 million and no Israel has not granted blanket return privileges , nor should it .
    BE THANKFULL , that they do not "fight it out amongst themselves ", as you put it , for there would be no palestinians , they would have been decimated long ago , had Israel not been a civilized nation. And in each war the arabs initiated , and there have been five , the world implored Isarel and whinbe to the UN , for ISRAEL to ceasefire and relent …which it has on each occaision .
    So wherever your from Glennd 1 , get your head screwed on straight , and keep in mind the US will always support Israel , 80% of Americans favor it's continued existence . bTry doing some EARNEST investigation on nthe subject , rather than talking point rhetoric and propaganda.

    • Glennd1

      You are an idiot. The stated policy of Israel ever since their founding has been to deny those refugees the right of return. Do the world a favor, pal, don't vote and don't reproduce.

      • MixMChess

        Wrong, Israel has never had a policy of ethnic cleansing or denying refugees a right to return. Israel's declaration of Independence states the following:

        "The State of Israel… will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants, irrespective of creed, race or gender; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture."

        Israel was NEVER obligated to repatriate refugees who would threaten its security. Recall, the Arabs stated goal was the destruction of Israel. Of course, Israel offered to take back 100,000 refugees during peace talks at the Lausanne Conference in July 1949. Of course, the Arab states refused. Why you ask? Because the Arab states used the refugee issue to their advantage in their attack against Israel. As Ralph Gallow, former director of UNRWA stated: "

        "The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it an open sore, as an affront to the UN and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don't give a damn whether the refugees live or die."

        The Arab states, Hamas and the P.A. are responsible for the plight of the refugees, NOT Israel. Arab nations have intentionally kept the Palestinian refugee issue from being resolved. They have actively prevented Palestinian absorption and resettlement in other host countries including Israel. If you want to blame someone, blame the Arab and Palestinian leaders.

    • baldarab

      "no ethnic cleansing"? Israel's leaders at the time were far more honest than you, Amused. The chairman of the Jewish National Fund, encharged to obtain Palestinian land, said "If there are other inhabitants there, they must be transferred to some other place". Not ethnic cleansing?.

      • MixMChess

        This is a quote taken out of context from Menachem Ussishkin and used by Benny Morris in his book Righteous Victims. Ussishkin was actually referencing taking back Jewish owned land that had been illegally confiscated by Arabs in the 1920s and 30s.

        Interestingly enough, Benny Morris himself has admitted that Israel did NOT have a deliberate policy for expelling Arabs. Of course, Zionist leaders from Theodore Herzl to Chaim Weizman to David Ben Gurion were always dedicated to peaceful co-existence with the local Arab residents and to having them benefit from Zionist development.

        Herzl’s vision of the future Jewish state: "Arabs and Jews lived in friendship side-by-side. ‘The Jews have enriched us,’ observed one Arab notable, Reshid Bey. ‘Why should we have anything against them? They live with us like brothers, why should we not love them?’"

    • baldarab

      Joseph Weitz, his successor clarified that "the transfer of Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim – to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important aim which is to evacuate land presently held and cultivated by the Arabs and thus to release it for the Jewish inhabitants". Not ethnic cleansing?

      • MixMChess

        This is a fabricated quote from Nur Masalha, based on supposedly declassified documents from Israel. Of course, Masalha has yet to provide a citation for the source of these quotes, merely referencing the mysterious "declassified documents."

        Even new historian Benny Morris has severely criticized the work of Masalha, stating that his "conclusions" are tainted "with a pro-Palestinian bias." Morris holds that there was never any transfer policy. Whats so funny about Masalha is that cites early Zionists (like Yosef Weitz) who were never part of the mainstream Zionist political discourse or policy. Of course, Masalha's completely avoids any mention of the Arabs declared plans in 1948 to annihilate and exterminate the Jewish people and Israel.

        Besides, we all know the real policy of the Jews was peaceful coexistence with the Arabs. As David Ben Gurion stated: "All our aspiration is built on the assumption—proven through all our activity in the land—that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs…." Ben Gurion went on to state: "The Arab policy of the Jewish state must be aimed not only at full equality for the Arabs but at their cultural, social, and economic equalization, namely, at raising their standard of living to that of the Jews."

    • baldarab

      Operational orders of the Haganah in 1948 "to expel the enemy from the villages… to clean the front line… To conquer the villages, to cleanse them of inhabitants. Women and children should [also] be expelled, to take several prisoner…. to burn the greatest possible number of houses". Not ethnic cleansing?

      • MixMChess

        The above quote actually comes not from any official Israeli document but from Benny Morris himself in an interview. Again, Benny Morris has even admitted that there was never an Israeli policy to ethnically cleanse the Arabs. In fact, Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. For example, the Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:

        "We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."

    • baldarab

      Plan Dalet, which created the Apartheid state of Israel "permitted and justified the forcible expulsion of Arab civilians." Not ethnic cleansing?

      • MixMChess

        Plan Dalet, was a plan worked out by the Haganah for defending the nascent Jewish state from invasion. It never permitted or justified the forcible expulsion of peaceful Arab civilians. The quote you pulled from above is from Benny Morris's description of the plan.

        In fact, Zionists frequently urged Palestinians not to flee the areas they secured and encouraged them to stay in their homes and communities. Arabs left cities like Haifa, Tiberias, and the Jaffa region because they were told that "those who accepted Israeli protection would be treated as defectors when the Arab forces were victorious."

        The Palestinian Arabs were not "expelled" in 1948 nor were they victims of any ethnic cleansing campaign. Arab leaders launched a war which resulted in a mass flight of Palestinians. They left to "avoid the battle zones, out of panic and fear and at the urging of Arab leaders who promised them a quick victory and a quick return." Israelis troops forced only a small percentage of Arabs to leave their villages, and this was done because of the exigencies of the war.

        Besides, it was the Arab nations, not Israel, who waged a war of ethnic cleansing. They were explicit about their genocidal intentions:

        Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League stated to the BBC in May of 1947: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

        Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Nazi collaborator and head of the Palestinian government declared a holy war against the Jews: "I declare a holy war, my Muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!"

        The Arab Higher Committee Circular of 1947 stated: "The Arabs have taken into their own hands the final solution of the Jewish problem. The problem will be solved only in blood and fire. The Jews will soon be driven out."

        In 1948 Damascus radio called on all Arabs to "undertake the liberation battle that will tear the hearts from the bodies of the hateful Jews and trample them in the dust."

        Hmmm, so who was really doing the ethnic cleansing here?

    • baldarab

      Ben Gurion, the founding father of Israel, stated clearly that "the cleansing of Palestine remained the primary objective". Not ethnic cleansing?

      • MixMChess

        That is a quote from Ben Gurion taken out of context by Ilan Pappe. Ben Gurion was actually referencing cleansing Palestine of the Arab Armies and hostile Arabs. Of course, Pappe left that part out because it wouldn't fit in with his anti-Israel narrative.

        Here is a REAL quote from David Ben Gurion:

        "They [our Arab Neighbors] in turn have much to give us, they are blessed with what we lack. Great territories, ample for themselves and their children's children, even if they are far more prolific than they are today. We do not covet their expanses nor will we penetrate them – for we shall fight to end Diaspora in Arab lands as fiercely as we fought to end it in Europe, we want to be assembled wholly in our own Land. But if this region is to expand to the full, there must be reciprocity, there can be mutual aid – economic, political and cultural – between Jew and Arab. That is the necessity which will prevail, and the daily fulminations of their leaders should not alarm us unduly – they do not echo the real interests of the Arab peoples"

    • baldarab

      Even today, when the pitiful Palestinian leadership agrees with Israel to take several hunderd thousand Palestinians from inside Israel into the West Bank, both are clearly engaged in ethnic cleansing. Open your eyes.

  • muchiboy

    "Only Israel can allow a Palestinian state to exist. It tried to do so in the past and failed. Its critics want it to keep on failing."

    Perhaps.But the world has a role to play here,if only because the world i.e.the UN,created Israel as a Zionist state in 1947/48,by a vote of 33 to 13.Now,while,and let me make a concession here,the worthy and legitimate aspirations of the Diaspora were more or less satisfied,those of the Palestinian people,were not.Certainly the ideal of a single state,even if workable,would destroy the essence of a national sanctuary for Jews.If carefully crafted,and this would mean serious,maybe imposed, concessions from both Jews and Palestinians,more and less,respectively,the creation of sister states could serve the needs of both peoples.Again,the world,especially America,would have to take a fair handed approach here.The situation as it stands,and has stood,is intolerable and unacceptable.If the world cares about the Jews and Palestinians, it will act to better craft safe,viable homelands for them.With respect.muchiboy

    • ziontruth

      The two-state solution was favored by a majority of Israeli Jews in the years 1993-2005. It lost favor when the Arabs made it clear that the borders of Israel on the eve of the Six-Day War mean nothing to them. Two events highlighted this fact: 1) In October 2000 there was a general uprising of Arabs in the pre- as as well as post-1967 territories; 2) Following the termination of all Jewish presence in the Gaza Strip, the firing of Kassam rockets from Gaza onto Israeli Jewish towns within the pre-1967 borders not only did not cease, but got more intense.

      We have no reason to believe the other side's intentions are anything less than eliminationist.

    • aspacia

      So what, the UN also created Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, etc., at the same time. Face in lessboy, the people you back are racist and intolerant of nonbelievers, just look at what they are doing to the Copts!

      Frankly, you have zero credibility.

  • muchiboy

    "We have no reason to believe the other side's intentions are anything less than eliminationist. "

    Which is reason enough for the decisions to make the needed concessions and changes be made despite the fears/wants of either Israel and/or Palestine.There are precedents for such actions.We are not dealing with a major power,but a small fish in a rather small pond.Western sanctions and boycotts could achieve this within ten years.The world and the Palestinian people cannot be held hostage indefinitely because of irrational genocidal fears and a selfish insistence on some religious two thousand year old entitlement.Sometimes a people,no matter how bright nor moral,just don't get it right and need direction from friends with a better sense of the situation.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "The world and the Palestinian people cannot be held hostage indefinitely because of irrational genocidal fears…"

      Irrational genocidal fears? The Palestinians have stated that their goal is the complete destruction of Israel and world Jewry. The Hamas charter calls for the genocide of Jews worldwide. Fatah and Palestinian Authority has TV programs and textbooks encouraging children to murder Jews. The Palestinians have a very real lust for Jewish blood – look no further than their constant terrorist attacks against Israel and Jews.

      "…and a selfish insistence on some religious two thousand year old entitlement."

      Sigh… Zionism was founded as a SECULAR ideology based on the historical and legal rights to the land.

      • muchiboy

        "The Palestinians have stated that their goal…."

        Firstly,let us not forget that Palestine,home to both Palestinian Arab and Jew for hundreds and thousands of years,and with a substantial Arab majority over much of that time,was effectively occupied by European Jewish settlers and refugees over the past hundred years,in greater if not massive numbers pre and post WWII.Concurrent to this we need never forget the horrors occurring to the Jewish citizens of Europe during this time.For both humanitarian and historical reasons a strong case can be made for Palestine as homeland and sanctuary to Jews and Arabs.
        To occupy and settle a land that was already occupied and settled by another people,no matter the religious and historical ties and entitlements,and then to deny those legitimate occupants their homeland based on a fear of genocide is not only irrational but ethically reprehensible.
        Jews are not alone in having suffered genocide.And no one can promise them that it will never happen again.We can only be watchful and prepared to take action when we see signs of impending atrocities.One need only look to post war ,post Holocaust Germany and Europe and as well as Rwanda to know that there is life,hope and security post genocide.One does not deny an entire people their human rights nor their birth rights nor right to their homeland on the basis of perceived threats and fears.
        "Zionism was founded as a SECULAR ideology based on the historical and legal rights to the land."

        Zionism resulted in the occupation of Palestine,the denial of Palestinian birth rights to their descendents,and the denial of their homeland, to this day.True,Zionism gave the Jewish people a homeland and Sanctuary,but to deny the horrendous impact on the Palestinians is unconscionable.It would be as if the German people were to complain about their suffering post WWII while ignoring or denying the impact of that war on the Jewish people.Simply unconscionable. muchiboy

        • ziontruth

          "To occupy and settle a land that was already occupied and settled by another people … and then to deny those legitimate occupants their homeland … is not only irrational but ethically reprehensible."

          Good thing, that we Zionist Jews have not done, and are not doing, anything of that sort.

          We do not deny the Arab nation their homeland: The Arabian Peninsula. We have not occupied nor settled the Arab nation's one and only homeland: The Arabian Peninsula.

          We hope that the Arab nation will eventually reciprocate by not denying the Jewish nation their homeland: Palestine, the Land of Israel. And we hope that they will stop occupying and settling the Jewish nation's one and only homeland: Palestine, the Land of Israel. That is justice and without it there will be no peace. Until the Arab nation rectifies its ethically reprehensible coveting of another nation's land, we have no choice but to defend ourselves from them, and from all who support them.

    • ziontruth

      "Which is reason enough for the decisions to make the needed concessions and changes be made despite…"

      Behold the logic:

      1) One side wants to eliminate the other side,
      ergo:
      2) The other side needs to make concessions to that side.

      This kind of stupidity isn't just a momentary lapse; it's a pathological, incurable disease.

      And to think people who share this opinion (that Israel should make concessions to those who want to eliminate her) are in positions of power! God help us, for we are living in times of gripping, absorbing interest.

  • freedemocracy

    The Truth about "Palestinian" Arabs A.K.A. Arab immigrants' children, grandchildren & the vastly vacant desolate land prior to the rise of Jewish return http://knol.google.com/k/anonymous/the-truth-abou

  • GreySky

    If it is ever reached, the current and any other artificial “peace agreement” will be illegitimate before it is ever signed because (1) all people living in Palestine regardless of religion, race, origin, etc. (hereinafter “All People of Palestine”) were never given a choice on how they want their land to be governed, and (2) all contracts signed under duress are null and void.
    The biggest problem in Palestine is that the Zionist regime never offered a choice to All People of Palestine on how they want to govern their land because the Zionist regime cannot exist as a democratic entity. If there was ever any democratic process in Palestine, Zionists would have been outvoted and the Zionist regime would have never existed. That is why the Zionist regime is the occupier because it does not offer choice (i.e. democracy), but instead imposes its regime (i.e. occupies). Imagine if Russians would simply occupy a town in the U.S. where they are in significant numbers and attempt to create a Russian state there without giving the rest of the Americans living there a choice. Imagine then if they would try to institute a “peace agreement” that would attempt to legitimize their occupation. The “peace agreement” would logically and legally be illegitimate because the Americans were not given a choice.

    Under all countries’ laws, any contract is null and void if it is signed under duress. The current Palestine “peace agreement” process reminds me of The Godfather movie where the mafia boss (i.e. the Zionist regime) made a guy “an offer he could not refuse” by placing a gun (i.e. Zionist conventional and nuclear arsenal) to his head and making him sign the contract. Like the mafia boss’ offer, any “peace agreement” other than the choice for All People of Palestine is a crime, and the contract is legally null and void.

    The bottom line is that All People of Palestine never wanted to divide their land into artificial two states the way the occupation and this “peace agreement” attempt to divide it. From the beginning of the Zionist regime to its unavoidable end, All People of Palestine and the region never wanted the Zionist regime and they do not want it even more after all the atrocities the Zionist regime committed. I just cannot believe how the Zionist regime can be so ignorant to think that this or any other “peace agreement” that does not allow people to choose how they want to be governed will last and ensure its people’s survival. The Zionist regime fails to realize that no matter if it succeeds in muscling this “peace agreement” by unspeakable historic coercion tens of millions of moral people around the world will oppose it until it is corrected, and until justice and free choice prevail. Also, ever increasing number of Jewish people are realizing that Zionism is becoming a destructive force for them and are leading the global resistance to it.
    P.S. feel free to copy this comment, email it to other bloggers, and repost it on other blogs, newspaper websites, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking websites, and include it in any correspondence/lobbying with senators, state representatives and any other public officials so the public learns the truth…

  • GoodEnemy

    The main Zionist claim is that they have a supreme right to some of Palestinian territory because they lived there thousands of years ago. Let’s examine the core and real nature of this claim.
    Firstly, this claim is mistaken and selfish in its core concept because Zionists fail to recognize that history is a continuum and that there were other people living in majority in Palestine before the Jews and also after the Jews. Zionists simply cut history at a convenient point for them and claim ancestral ties to the land as of that convenient point.
    Secondly, whatever the claim, it is beyond absurd to try to shape modern world based on thousands of years old maps. Imagine if the rest of the world would be reshaped by who was on the land thousands of years ago. It would cause horrific wars, countless refugees, and unimaginable human suffering, exactly what is happening in Palestine.
    Thirdly and most disturbing, Zionist goal was to establish a Jewish state wherever possible. Palestine may have been a preference, but Palestine was not the only location that Zionists planned as their state in modern times. Another location was Argentina where Jews have been migrating for hundreds of years for the purpose of establishing a state. Also, locations in Europe were on the list and that’s why the Catholic Church was killing/expelling Jews since Roman times (read the history of the Holly Inquisition). Whatever the location, Zionist plan was to simply occupy the people living on the land even if that would mean imposing a regime worst than Nazi Germany’s from which they escaped. And Zionists would just use a different ideological coloring than the one used in Palestine in the attempt to rationalize the occupation.

    In conclusion, the main claim on which the Zionist regime is built in Palestine is erroneous, selfish, and a lie. I am categorically against generalizing, and recognize that many Jews are against the crimes the Zionist regime is committing and that many Jews are leading the global resistance to it. They should be proud.

  • 1000roses

    All who oppose the Zionist regime please STOP calling it “Israel” Every time you do it you reward the occupation of Palestine. Name “Israel” implies a state on the occupied territory. Call the occupiers what they really are: the Zionist regime. This way, every time you refer to it, you will imply its temporary nature (the nature of all occupying regimes). Encourage your fellow comment posters to use the name Zionist regime as well. We must also be categorically against generalizing, and recognize that many Jews are against the crimes the Zionist regime is committing in their names, and that many Jews are leading the global resistance to it. They should be proud. I wish that they finally find piece wherever they choose to live (including Palestine) through a peaceful democratic process as opposed to the Nazi-style occupation the current Zionist regime is using.
    The only way to oppose the Zionist controlled media and to take each other’s comments and copy, repost, email, and otherwise distribute them to other blogs, newspaper websites, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking websites. Please do so with this comment for justice to prevail.