How Civilizations Die


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Fostering stability is a failed policy. The alternative is to manage instability. By that I mean forcing the burden of uncertainty upon our opponents. We should deal with Muslim countries as a matter of national self-interest, rewarding friends and frightening or harming enemies. The Saudi regime is monstrous, but we have no reason to change it, although we need to discourage the Saudis in the harshest way from paying protection to terrorists.

In order to stop Iran’s nuclear program, we may have to decapitate the civilian and military leadership and disrupt communications. That can be accomplished through aerial assault and subversion rather than invasion, but will occasion great hardship and extensive civilian casualties. We must do so nonetheless.

Pakistan has shown itself incapable of containing the Islamic radicals in its military and intelligence services. We should not allow this failed state to humiliate us further and instead seek to encircle and contain it, with India’s help.

Turkey has become a prospective enemy, and there are a number of things we might do, for example with the Kurds, to impose a high penalty for misbehavior. Covert action to support dissident movements, human rights initiatives, religious reforms, and so forth is an important component of managing instability, As a model, I would examine Dutch military and diplomatic efforts during the Thirty Years War of 1618-1648.

FP: A section of your book is entitled “Theopolitics.” What do you mean by this term?

Goldman: Actually, that was my original working title for the book, but my publishers wisely observed that it would be relegated to the “Religion” section. Our political science is rooted in Thomas Hobbes’ materialism, and assumes that actors on the political stage follow their rational self-interest, defined as self-preservation. We can gussy up Hobbes with game theory, but it makes no difference. We live in a world in which most of the industrial nations find themselves in a demographic death spiral, a Great Extinction of the nations unlike anything we have seen since the 7th century. Most of the nations of the world would rather die out than adapt to modernity; they are not much different from the neolithic Amazon tribes who succumb to alcoholism. Why do some nations find the spiritual resources to embrace life, while others chant, “We love death”? What is the rational self-interest of a nation that has chosen to become extinct? And how will nations on the way to extinction respond to their predicament? These are the great questions of our time, and materialist political science does not have the tools to answer them. Franz Rosenzweig’s sociology of religion, for example, provides a better framework for understanding these problems than the political rationalism of Leo Strauss.

FP: What is the role of Turkey in all of this?

Goldman: There were great hopes in the last Bush administration that Turkey would provide a model for moderate Islamist democracy, and the Obama administration has tried to make Turkey a partner in Middle East diplomacy. This was a profound error. Turkey is one of the tragedies of our time. Kemal Ataturk brought Turkey into the modern world, but his reforms only took root with the Europeanized elite in metropolitan Turkey. His brand of modernizing, secular nationalism was spiritually hollow, and the European side of Turkish society suffered from the same infertility that plagued Europe itself. Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the standard-bearer for Muslim Anatolia against the secular metropole, and his ambitions to recreate Turkey’s dominant role in the Muslim world have been discussed exhaustively. But insufficient attention has been given to Turkey’s inherent weakness and instability. Kurdish-speakers, now a fifth of the population, have three times as many children as native Turkish-speakers, which means that half of Turkey’s military-age population will be Kurdish a generation from now. Erdogan is in a panic over this. In a recent speech he warned that on its present trajectory the Turkish nation would come to an end in 2038. Why that year, I do not know, but it’s as good a guess as any. As with Iran, Turkey’s grandiose pronouncements and reckless behavior reflect an apocalyptic sense that time is running out. In the long term, Turkey is not a viable ally, because it is not a viable country. In the short term, Turkey has become another problem to be contained.

FP: How do you see Israel’s strategic position in the context of the Arab Spring and Obama’s abandoning — and bullying — of Israel?

Goldman: The Obama administration’s attempt to force Israel into a peace settlement is deluded, obviously so in recent months. Any possible deal with the Palestinians would build on Israel’s peace treaty with Egypt, which now is in doubt, and the whole idea of a comprehensive peace in the region is ruled out by the chaos in Syria. For reasons Obama himself has emphasized, he identifies with Islam in a way no previous president could have imagined, and tried to force Israel into an agreement on Palestinian terms. This is all sewage under the bridge. It is true that Israel is more isolated than before, but that is a mixed curse. Civil war in Syria and economic chaos in Egypt will degrade the capacity of both countries to make war. Syria’s troubles make Hezbollah’s position more difficult, but Hamas will acquire arms more easily in Gaza. Israel has greater risk of rocket attacks, but less risk from conventional opponents. It is also important to note that the “demographic time bomb” argument has quietly disappeared, now that the data clearly show that the Jewish birth rate in Israel is equal to the Arab birth rate.  The great risk to Israel’s security has little to do with the Arab Spring. It comes from Iran, which set out to acquire nuclear weapons years ago.

FP: Overall, how do you think the United States can best survive the threats and upheavals it faces on the horizon?

Goldman: The United States must act like a superpower, rather than an NGO with a humanitarian agenda. That means standing by friends like Israel, preempting real threats like Iran, and punishing wayward allies like Turkey.  We’ve been talking about a lot of unpleasant things, but it’s important to remember that two-thirds of the world population lives in countries where things are getting better–China, East Asia, India, South America. Tens of millions of people each year move from rural poverty to urban prosperity. In the great scheme of things the Muslim world is of minor importance to America, and its disintegration will make that plain over time. Far more important are our relationships with India and China. And these depend on the perception that America is the undisputed world hyperpower, such that it is pointless to test our patience. That means more military spending, not less, but also less dissipation of our resources on well-meaning but futile exercises in nation-building.  China will be more willing to accommodate American security requirements, for example in Pakistan, if it perceives that American strength is past all possible challenge for the foreseeable future.

Americans have not begun to absorb how much the world has changed. We are likely to have humanitarian disasters on a gigantic scale in Egypt and elsewhere, about which we can do no more than we could in Somalia during the Clinton administration. We like to think of ourselves like the Lone Ranger, fixing everybody’s troubles. There will be occasions when our national security interests require us to stir up troubles rather than mitigate them. I wrote “How Civilizations Die” to harden American hearts, to horrify readers in order to inoculate them against the horrors to come.

FP: David P. Goldman, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.

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  • Adrian

    America's demographic 'advantage' is over-hyped. The number of white children in the 2010 census declined by 4.3 million over the last decade. Does that sound like a healthy birth rate? The only reason the US fertility rate is 2.05 instead of the 1.3-1.5 common in European countries, is because of Hispanics and if you look deeper into the fertility data, its actually more specifically Mexican-American births that are the reason. So Europe is turning into Eurabia, while America will have a Mexican and Black majority. The educational achievement of these 'minority' children is far lower than those of white children, and unless some way is found to bridge this 'achievement gap', America will eventually turn into a third world nation. This Hispanic and Black majority also isn't good news for Jews, as anti-semitism is well-documented to be much higher among them, particularly foreign-born Hispanics.

  • http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm Alexander Gofen

    Judging by this interview alone (not yet by the book), it does not offer any breakthrough insight into the topic. (How our civilization die, in particular the demographic death of Eurabia, has been already prominently exposed in the books by Mark Steyn).

    Instead of "How", it's more important to pose the question "Why civilizations die". Yet here, as Mr. David Goldman frankly admits, "The materialist political science does not have the tools to answer" this and other similar questions of our time.

    Wait a sec: Since when is it presumed in America that political science – or any science – supposed to be "materialistic" (i.e. Marxist)?!

    Indeed, it is not in the field of science to examine the sense of life, nor the purpose of humankind, consumed by selfish hedonism. The purpose of humankind may be set only by the One who is above this humankind and who created it. That is why the answer why this civilization is dying is offered by religious scholars, for example by Rabbi Daniel Lapin.

    The Western civilization is dying because it entered into its post-religious epoch rejecting the God-given prescription how to properly sustain the civil society. So we are running on last remnants of civility preserved from the past, and we are doomed if this trend is not reversed.
    http://www.resonoelusono.com/Imminent.htm

    • http://madaboutmahound.blogspot.com/ Gary Rumain

      That's odd because the Roman Empire fell after it entered into its religious epoch. And so did the Byzantine Empire. And the Persian Empire. The unusual characteristic of all three was that they were affected in varying degrees by another empire also entering a religious epoch.

    • http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm Alexander Gofen

      In reply to Gary Rumain let me clarify: I did not say as though a very complicate phenomenon such as demise of the West may be explained by only one cause – the religious decline. Here is a deadly confluence of the causes (including the religious decline), as outlined under link Imminent.htm.

      Yes, the fallen empires of the past were affected by another empires entering a religious epoch. In our case, it is we ourselves who invigorated "religious epoch" of our islamic enemies by transferring an unprecedented wealth to them in the oil trade.

      And it is we ourselves who have reached the stage of self-cannibalization (Sherman)
      http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.a

      in paroxysm of guilt for the superiority and unique success of the Judeo-Christian civilization.

      The unique success and superiority of America was a result of the spiritual guidance embedded in the vision of the Founders.

      That is why the "materialistic" paradigm of Mr. Goldman misses a lot and fails to offer the guidance, because the guidance is in the spiritual realm.

  • Bamaguje

    "Why do some nations find the spiritual resources to embrace life, while others chant, 'We love death?"' – Goldman

    I wouldn't attach much importance to this empty Muslim boast.
    Back in the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war, Hamas similarly boasted "We love death more than Israelis love life."
    Yet when the chips were down and Israeli military was upon them, the gutless Hamas fighters shamelessly cowered behind women and children, rather than bravely stand up to the Israelis and be despatched to Islam's brothel paradise – Al-Jannah.

    • http://madaboutmahound.blogspot.com/ Gary Rumain

      Yes, but they still love death. Just the death of others.

  • voted against carter

    ' TAQIYYA '
    Do your own research about it if you don't know what this means.

    i s l a m IS EVIL. PERIOD.

    i s l a m strives for world domination.

    The q u r a n commands m u s l i m s to exercise jihad.

    The q u e r n commands muslims to establish s h a r i a h law.

    The q u e r n commands m u s l i m s to impose i s l a m on the entire world.

    i s l a m is NOT a religion, it IS a totalitarian ideology.

    i s l a m IS and has remained a death cult from its beginnings.

    i s l a m wants to dominate all aspects of life, from the cradle to the grave.

    s h a r i a h law is a law that controls every detail of life in a i s l a m i c society.

    From civic- and family law to criminal law.

    It determines how one should eat, dress and even use the toilet.

    Oppression of women is good, drinking alcohol is bad.

    The core of the q u r a n is the call to j i h a d.

    J i h a d means a lot of things and is a r a b i c for battle.

    i s l a m means submission, there cannot be any mistake about its goal.

    i s l a m and freedom, i s l a m and democracy are not compatible.

    They are opposite values.

    m o h a m e d 's "wife" was six years old.

    That makes m o h a m e d a P E D O P H I L E!!!

    And you want to base a "R e l i g i o n" on this a z s -holes rantings?

    Are you INSANE?

    • http://madaboutmahound.blogspot.com/ Gary Rumain

      Is there some reason you can't type like a normal person?

      • voted against carter

        Extra spacing gets it by filters on libratard web sites.

  • StephenD

    “Fostering stability is a failed policy. The alternative is to manage instability. By that I mean forcing the burden of uncertainty upon our opponents. We should deal with Muslim countries as a matter of national self-interest, rewarding friends and frightening or harming enemies.”

    Concise and to the point invaluable advice.

    If this is the theme of your book I say Bravo!

  • LindaRivera

    What could be more irresponsible than waging wars/nation building when America has severe financial problems? America is broke. We have NO money to fight any wars or build any nations! Also, war is a terrible thing causing tremendous suffering and should NEVER be entered into unless it is an absolute necessity.

  • LindaRivera

    Our financial situation is dire, yet every year America gives away billions of dollars to other countries, especially Muslim Middle Eastern countries and to the PLO/Palestinian Authority/Hamas who build mansions, fill their war chest and laugh all the way to the bank with FREE infidel money. Billions of dollars have been given away to Pakistan-who HATE America and whose goal is the conquest of India. Why do American leaders finance our enemies?

    • hass

      Actually we give most of our money to Israel.

      • LindaRivera

        That is absolutely NOT TRUE.

        And it is NOT Israel that daily, hourly seeks America's DESTRUCTION.

  • mrbean

    Muslim Demographics and Europe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

  • Lady_dr

    Mr. Goldman – outstanding work. If you need a research assistant for your next project contact me at chavah@poetic.com – I have a Ph.D. and a lot of experience in a wide range of fields.

  • ravis

    Interesting, but what is original here? I'd like to see Goldman's stand on immigration. That's no doubt why we see no alternatives presented. Unless you're willing to stop/reverse immigration and deal with the population dynamics internally, the situation is hopeless.

  • Jewel

    In speaking about Muslim demographics, where does intermarriage and inbreeding and the drop of IQ fit in? This seems to be a taboo in talking about the retarded culture and population of Muslim countries in and out of the Middle East. The Muslim world may have large populations, but because of its self-destructive and fatalistic culture and inbreeding, there isn't much innovation happening. Look at European populations of Muslims. They are lunatic asylums where they keep away from the natives and produce nothing of importance within those societies. Of course the Muslim populations are dying off. But even the living aren't doing anything to enhance life.

  • Jewel

    In speaking about Muslim demographics, where does intermarriage and inbreeding and the drop of IQ fit in? This seems to be a taboo in talking about the retarded culture of Muslim people in and out of the Middle East. The Muslim world may have large populations, but because of its self-destructive and fatalistic culture and inbreeding, there isn't much innovation happening. Look at European populations of Muslims. They are lunatic asylums where they keep away from the natives and produce nothing of importance within those societies. Of course the Muslim populations are dying off. But even the living aren't doing anything to enhance life.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    That was the view that Robert Gates​ brought into the Bush administration, and the reason that the Obama administration refused, disgracefully, to support the democracy movement that erupted in Iran in the summer of 2009.

    I know that many neo-cons like to call the Green Movement in Iran a democracy movement, but the last thing that will ever emerge in Iran is a Western-style democracy, as the freedom and liberty it embodies leaves the door wide open for its inevitable demise.

    We should deal with Muslim countries as a matter of national self-interest, rewarding friends and frightening or harming enemies.

    Actually, all Muslim countries are our eternal enemies. Not to mention that if the West is to survive in the long run, it must eventually outlaw Islam and ban and reverse mass Muslim immigration with all of its excess baggage. Since that is an imperative if we want to survive, the Islamic world will eventually realize we are on to them.

    The Saudi regime is monstrous, but we have no reason to change it, although we need to discourage the Saudis in the harshest way from paying protection to terrorists.

    Nonsense. Unless we want to tolerate permanent and perpetual jihad, the Mideast oilfields must eventually be seized and the immense unearned oil wealth of the Saudis and the Gulf State Emirs confiscated. Otherwise, they will use those resources against us perpetually, per the dictates of Islam, to wage jihad against us forever. When countries pursue war, you crush them to end the war, even when that war is a stealth global jihad that is largely unacknowledged and unopposed.

    In order to stop Iran’s nuclear program, we may have to decapitate the civilian and military leadership and disrupt communications. That can be accomplished through aerial assault and subversion rather than invasion, but will occasion great hardship and extensive civilian casualties. We must do so nonetheless.

    Agree, but Pakistan must be disarmed and its nuclear weapons program destroyed as well. Indeed, Muslims under any circumstances must never be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

    Pakistan has shown itself incapable of containing the Islamic radicals in its military and intelligence services. We should not allow this failed state to humiliate us further and instead seek to encircle and contain it, with India’s help.

    There is no such thing as Islamic radicals. That is a false PC multicultural myth. ALL MAINSTREAM ORTHODOX MUSLIMS are jihadists per the sixth and most important pillar of Islam. Hence, a few Muslims are violent jihadists, while most Muslims are non-violent stealth and deceptive jihadists, and the few that are not jihadists are not Muslims at all, but instead blasphemous apostates that per the dictates of Islam should be executed.

    Indeed, all players in Pakistan are jihadists, the elected government, the military, and the ISI, and all of them are playing a double game. Thus, to use the same political correct terminology as the writer, the nukes are already in the hands of the Islamic radicals, only he is too blinded by PC multiculturalism to realize it.

    Turkey has become a prospective enemy, and there are a number of things we might do,

    How about kicking Turkey out of NATO ASAP for starters.

    The Obama administration’s attempt to force Israel into a peace settlement is deluded,

    The reality is there is no peace possible in Israel, as the Islamic world's jihad being waged primarily via their proxy – the so-called Palestinians – exactly like the global jihad at large as well is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually regardless of any and all idiotic fake peace processes used to weaken Israel and to dupe gullible useful idiots or any temporary Hudnas reached.

    • Herman Caintonette

      A little Zionista Taqiyya? "Spengler" becomes Goldman, and ObamaYo may be Hymie al-Mossadi. Wattashock. Zionista propaganda is standard fare here.

      The Green Revolution and its Tunisian and Egyptian counterparts are inherently democratic movements; those countries would have mature democracies today, if rapacious oil interests hadn't used their muscle to overthrow their fledgling ones. Actions have consequences.

      Our kids are having smaller families because they can't afford to have large ones, as both parents must work to maintain even a decent standard of living. Just another predictable result of the insatiable selfishness of the 1%.

      • Steeloak

        The only propaganda here is your steaming heap of it Hermie.

        • Herman Caintonette

          And your rank in the Mossad is?

      • ObamaYoMoma

        The Green Revolution and its Tunisian and Egyptian counterparts are inherently democratic movements; those countries would have mature democracies today, if rapacious oil interests hadn't used their muscle to overthrow their fledgling ones. Actions have consequences.

        I hate to rain all over your warped self-hating/blame America first parade again Herman, but Islam, which is a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology that masquerades as being a religion to dupe gullible useful idiots like you, doesn't tolerate other forms of governance to exist unless those other forms are very authoritarian and ruthless enough to keep the forces of Islam at bay.

        With respect to Western-style democracy, it simply can't exist in the Islamic world on a long term basis exactly because the freedoms and liberties it embodies opens the door wide open for its ultimate demise. Not only that but democracy is the rule of man as opposed to the rule of Allah. Therefore, all democracies in the world must be obliterated per the dictates of Islam. Indeed, the fact that there are no Western-style democracies existing in the Islamic world today isn't a strange coincidence or a freak accident of nature.

        And those so-called democracies created by our State Department in Afghanistan and Iraq I'm sorry to say are not democracies at all. They are instead Sharia states, as Sharia law was enshrined in each country's respective constitution. Now the last time I checked the only freedom that Sharia allows is the freedom for Muslims to become more devout slaves of Allah.

        Hence, we are in essence propping up two Sharia states that are really our enemies. However, because our military has been rendered blind and incompetent via the imposition of PC multiculturalism, they routinely ignore reality when that reality runs counter to the dictates of PC multiculturalism. Such as when President Hamid Karsai recently announced that in the event the US goes to war with Pakistan, Afghanistan would go to war against the US. Indeed, it was swept under the rug ASAP, lest the American people become riled up and demand we get out of Afghanistan ASAP.

        • Herman Caintonette

          If the people want a Shari'a state, aren't there entitled to it? 400 years ago, the Puritans imposed their form of Shari'a upon the good people of Massachusetts.

          And guess who they are going to back if Israel attacks Iran? Iran closes the Straits of Hormuz with their Silkworms, and the entire M.E supports them, with the exception of Saudi Arabia — which may not survive. Welcome to WWIII.

          "Israel" is no longer a defensible proposition.

          • ObamaYoMoma

            If the people want a Shari'a state, aren't there entitled to it? 400 years ago, the Puritans imposed their form of Shari'a upon the good people of Massachusetts.

            You are a moron.

            And guess who they are going to back if Israel attacks Iran? Iran closes the Straits of Hormuz with their Silkworms, and the entire M.E supports them, with the exception of Saudi Arabia — which may not survive. Welcome to WWIII.

            "Israel" is no longer a defensible proposition.

            Seek mental help!

          • ziontruth

            "If the people want a Shari'a state, aren't there entitled to it?"

            For themselves only—sure. No argument there. All people are free to choose heaven or hell as they please, to sleep on the bed they make. Free will is God's gift to humanity.

            However, if you had any knowledge of Islam beyond the platitudes spoon-fed to you by CAIR, you'd know Islamic believers don't hold Islam is only for themselves, but for all of humanity to practice. An Islamic state isn't just a crazy theocracy stewing in its own juice but out of your sight and worry—it's a beachhead for imperialist aggression, for planning and often waging attacks with the purpose of spreading Islam to other states.

            The freedom to flip your finger ends at the tip of my nose. Islamic states touch the tip of other states' noses by their very nature, and that is why a "live and let live" attitude with regard to them is not a smart course of action.

            "'Israel' is no longer a defensible proposition."

            No one asked you to defend Israel. Especially not considering the price extracted (every time America gives Israel any kind of defend, it demands concessions of Israel's tiny piece of land to the Arab settler-colonists in return.)

          • Western Canadian

            ‘If the people want a Shari’a state, aren’t there entitled to it? 400 years ago, the Puritans imposed their form of Shari’a upon the good people of Massachusetts’

            Your stupidity and dishonesty will never cease. If you are any kind of a lawyer, even the lowest and slimiest kind, you would not be stupid enough to use the phrase ‘sharia’ with any other legal system…. Both due to sharias incredible viciousness and inborn criminality, but because it is as stupid as refering to french law as ‘their form of english common law’. Only an utter moron would do as you do.

  • gfmucci

    Excellent interview. I am now reading this book and Pat Buchanan's new book "Suicide of a Superpower", both published in the last couple of months. These books are op-ed pieces of one another from the standpoint of global demographics and their impact on the United States and Islam.

    Mac: It is not "the POOR shall inherit the earth." It is the MEEK shall inherit the earth. Meek, in this context refers to the "gentle" or the "powerless." The "poor" are not necessarily gentle or powerless. And the "meek" are not necessarily "poor." Possibly "poor in spirit" or "downtrodden" are possibilities, but not "poor" in the sense of short of money and resources.

  • Debanjan Banerjee

    Interestingly , according to Bible and according to the present situation in the World , if we have a look at the World , the most meek are the Muslim countries , period.

    So how about it that Muslims inherit Europe and their meek counterparts in America inherit America. That is according to bible , remember.

    The powerful i.e. USA and ISrael should be beware of the prophecies of their own holy books.

    • ziontruth

      "…if we have a look at the World , the most meek are the Muslim countries , period."

      What the heck are you smoking, man?! The most violent countries on earth, you call the most meek?!

      "The powerful i.e. USA and ISrael should be beware of the prophecies of their own holy books."

      You could use fewer words. You just wanted to reiterate the Marxist twin doctrines of "Strong is wrong" and "Plight makes right." But even the Bible upholds that it is perfectly possible for the weak and oppressed to be in the wrong, and exhorts the judge to judge objectively and not by circumstance (Exodus 23:3).

      The Chechens might be weak and oppressed in comparison to the Russians and their army. However, in Beslan they surpassed the Nazis in atrocity, and were the Russians to expel them all from Chechnya and repopulate it with Russians, they'd be well justified. Strong does not always equal wrong, and plight by itself does not make right.

  • alphakilosingh

    It will be unfair to judge the book without reading it, but this interview does not encourage me to read the book, though the title of the book is exciting.
    The author believes that USA is not going to decline because its fertility rate is greater than 2. The argument is not tenable. First of all, the fertility rate is greater than 2 not because the Americans are more virile; it is rather because of the influx from the Latino nations with Islam contributing in no small proportion. Therefore the population of Americans with the 'American Spirit' is very much on the decline, as the author himself admits. The Latino and Islamic Americans are not going to keep the American flag flying.
    Moreover, the author (in this interview) has failed to address the other two points raised by Mark Steyn in his classic 'America Alone': the unsustainability of the Western Economic Model and the Civilizational exhaustion. These two are important points. Any civilization will grow till it is exhausted, and then it will decline. I find it difficult to share the author's optimism about America's future. The author but has a point, and even Mark Steyn agrees that USA does have a chance that it can not only revive itself, it can help revive Europe as well, but it does not seem to be recognizing and making use of the opportunity, and is continuing on the declining spiral. Mark Steyn is more right than David Goldman.
    As a matter of fact, anything which was born must die. Anything which has a date of birth comes with a date of death tag. By this logic, Islam too has to die, because it has a date of birth, but in my view Islam is not going to die because at any point in time they are going to stop producing enough children. If and when Islam dies, it will be because of flawed Islamic economics. Islam feeds itself on the hard work of the other civilizations it trounces, and as the other civilizations become poorer, Islam will automatically die.
    There is one civilization which has no date of birth; whose traditional economic thought centers around reducing consumption rather than increasing it, and which has withstood many onslaughts in last about 1000 years. This civilization does not have a very high standard of living, but is surviving: rather tentatively though, but surviving. This is the one which is most likely to survive till eternity, but it has never ruled the world, and is never going to. Would anyone like to guess what civilization is that?

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Let me vouch for the author. Although from my post it may not sound like I'm a fan of David Goldman, a.k.a. Spengler, I have been reading his articles for many years and all in all he is one of the best and most consistently correct analyst out there. Indeed, I don't agree with everything he writes, but I also don't agree 100 percent with what everyone else writes as well. Nevertheless, Spengler is one of the best analyst out there there is.

      My main problem with him stems from his stubborn adherence to PC multiculturalism and the continued use of PC multicultural loaded terms such as radical, extremist, extremism, moderate, terrorist, terrorism, Islamist, etc., which not only are very misleading but they also reenforce false PC multicultural myths and assumptions about Islam. Like for instance that there is a moderate version of Islam and also a radical version of Israel.

  • Ivan

    islam is not a civilisation, btw. It is a cult, just like KKK and Nazi.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      You mean Islam masquerades as being a religion to dupe gullible useful idiots. Islamic civilization definitely does exist and it is antithetical to Western civilization.

      • ziontruth

        In my view, Islam is "living tissue over metal endoskeleton" like the Terminator: There is a real layer of religion above, but underneath there is an equally real layer of a political program that is little different from that of Nazism or Marxism. The error of those who cry "Islamophobia!" is that they delude themselves that the upper layer is all there is.

    • Raymond in DC

      It is indeed a cult, in many ways like the cult under Jim Jones of the late 1970s, only far worse. As with Islam, Jones as cult leader had both a mindless following and sexual appetites to excess, for which he could always find justification. The difference is that Islam got its start in the desert, where survival by some depended on defeating one's enemies and taking what was theirs. (There were exceptions of course. The Jews and Christians then in Arabia actively engaged in trade and agriculture.) "Submission" thus became the motif – the "unbelievers" submitting to the believers, while the believers submitted to Allah.

  • myx0mop

    I just want to say that David Goldman, a.k.a Spengler has for years been one of the best political writers on the Internet, occupying an obscure corner at Asia Times, of all places. I found out about him from a known talk show host who praised his insights and opinions. Since then, I have read every article written by Mr. Goldman and everything he writes is stellar, whether you may agree or not sometimes.

    Most pundits out there pretty much say the same things and express the same opinions. You can always count on Mr. Goldman to be an original thinker. One of the rare few.

  • http://www.genussallee.at Hannes L.

    In europe we have a low level birthrate, therefore we need imigrants (most or many of them are islamic) which means that there is a shifting from christian to islamic majority in the next decades especially in the bigger cities.
    Feinkost kaufen bequem und einfach ueber den Feinkostversand

  • Karen

    I wouldn't line my cat litter box with your magazine. My cat would be insulted.

  • Andy Smith

    "In order to stop Iran’s nuclear program, we may have to decapitate the civilian and military leadership and disrupt communications. That can be accomplished through aerial assault and subversion rather than invasion, but will occasion great hardship and extensive civilian casualties. We must do so nonetheless."

    I was interested up until this passage. Extensive cilivilan casulties is never acceptable. How many times must we learn from our mistakes? These worlds trivialize human life whether they are American lives or not. There are other ways to deal with Iran. I think somebody's humanity is in question.

  • Eric G

    Actually, Scripture (Matthew 5:5) says the *meek* shall inherit the earth.

  • Raymond in DC

    "Mark Stein projects that by the middle of this century, tiny Yemen will have a larger population than Russia. Regardless of falling Muslim fertility rates, I don't buy the premise that their decline is curved anywhere near as steeply as ours."

    Goldman, I think, correctly notes that the fertility drop is most dramatic among the more *educated* of Muslim lands. So it's going down in Iran, Turkey, Algeria and Morocco, as well as among the Palestinian Arabs, but it's not going down Egypt or the horn of Africa (Somalia, Sudan, Eritrea), in southern Arabia, or in the troubled Muslim western African states. Fertility also remains high among Israel's Bedouin (which also commonly practice both polygamy and first-cousin marriage).

  • WildJew

    Or "the land" (Psalm 37:11). And he was not talking about the Palestinians or any other wicked people as some would have it.