Raymond Ibrahim 1, CAIR 0 (by KO)


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Ibrahim: Thanks to CAIR’s trumpeting, turnout was good, with people sitting in the aisles and leaning against the walls.  As usual, the majority of the attendees, especially the students, appeared receptive and appreciative of the talk—or so the many emails I received since would indicate. (Indeed, weeks earlier I spoke at Berkeley University and had two students come and tell me that they had planned on disparaging me, but after listening to my talk, found it to be logical and reasonable.)  Of course, you wouldn’t know that from news media such as King 5 which distorted the Seattle event by interviewing the two Muslims present at the talk (Sidiqqui himself and a woman in full burqa), while ignoring the many, once again demonstrating the great disconnect between what the media portrays and what the regular people think.

FP: How do you respond to the charge that you’re spreading hate?

Ibrahim: As I told reporters at the event, I’m just the messenger; the hate exists in the texts that I quote—texts, I might add, which form the cornerstone for Islamists such as CAIR.  Here’s a verse off the top of my head, always being quoted by Islamists: “We [believers] disown you [non-believers, including family] and what you worship besides Allah. We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us—until you believe in Allah alone” (Koran 60:4).  That’s just one of many.  Rather than project the hate ingrained in its own worldview onto me and others, if CAIR was sincere, it would admit to and try to “reform” the anti-infidel hate that litters its texts.

Arsalan Bukhari only needs to appreciate the significance of his names—Alp Arsalan was the jihadist chieftain who terrorized the Christian east, and the ultra-authoritative Sahih Bukhari contains 199 references to jihad, all in the context of war against non-Muslims—to know where the hate stems.

FP: What do you say to those who say you breed mistrust of Muslims, especially by focusing on the doctrine of loyalty and enmity?

Ibrahim: I say my primary interest is to ascertain the truth, not its consequences. Rather than be concerned whether “loyalty and enmity”—or in Arabic al-wala’ wa’l bara’—breeds mistrust of Muslims, I believe the more critical question is whether this doctrine is true or not.  Obviously, if large numbers of Muslims believe they are forbidden from being loyal to non-Muslims, then our problems far transcend breeding mistrust.

FP: Did you receive any challenging questions at your talk?

Ibrahim: Not really, just the usual lines about how “all religions can be interpreted anyway,” “the Bible is equally as violent as the Koran (a widespread but flawed argument I addressed here).  At one point, a faculty member somberly asked me if what I was saying was true, then why did so many Muslims in America condemn bin Laden (mind you, I had already spent quite a bit of time talking about doctrinal deceit).  Some did not feel my curt response—that they might simply be lying—sufficient.  So here’s a little known anecdote from the annals of Islamic history to further elaborate:

When Omar, Muhammad’s close companion, was captured by the Quraish, the opponents of Muhammad and Islam, Omar, the future caliph, publicly renounced Muhammad in order to be freed; later, when he told Muhammad what he had done, the prophet was okay with it—“so long as your faith was secure in your heart.”  Now, if the righteous caliph Omar can publicly condemn the prophet of Allah to get out of a bind, is it difficult to believe that a Muslim can condemn bin Laden to get out of a bind?

FP: What do you say to your Islamist detractors?

Ibrahim: First, the grand irony: in January, months before my talk, the same CAIR characters now moaning and groaning because I got to speak—such as Siddiqui—spoke at EvCC, despite the fact that many Americans including locals protested, knowing CAIR’s terrorist links.  How telling, then, that the same CAIR that insists on getting its way even when the people protest, screams bloody murder to prevent others from having the same opportunity to speak.  In short, CAIR wants the ability to spew lies, while denying others from speaking the truth.  That’s all any American needs to know about CAIR.

So I say to CAIR and other Islamist groups that, if they ever wish to be sincere, they need to stop trying to suppress free speech (even if Sharia law demands it); they need to move beyond sensationalist, kneejerk words—“racist,” “hater,” “Islamophobe”—move beyond tears and appeals to emotionalism, and actually try to defend their position in the realm of open and rational debate.

But you see, CAIR can’t do that; it knows full well that if you put two equally-matched speakers to debate a controversial topic, the one with the truth—yes, such a thing still exists—will win. Sophistry goes only so far.

FP: Thank you for joining us, Raymond, and congratulations for scoring one for free speech and exposing CAIR. You are a true courageous warrior for liberty and truth in our perilous times.

Ibrahim: Thank you, Jamie; I appreciate the opportunity.

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  • Kristina

    Raymond, thank you for sharing your views at this school and speaking out on this problem before we "politically correct" ourselves into submission. We should wonder why so many Muslims have moved to the country of "The Great Satan" if they are uncomfortable with our freedoms, and in Raymond's case, freedom of speech. The lies and deceit of CAIR rival those of our President and Congress. May you be invited to many more schools.

  • kafir4life

    Questions……
    1.) Isn't cair that terrorist supporting group, founded by terrorist supporters that support terrorism?
    2.) Isn't islam the cult that the terrorist supporters at the terror supporting hama-linked terror supporting islamic terrorist supporting organization that the terrorist supporters at cair follow?

    and it may be that cair dislikes a thing which is good for humans … Kafir knows but they do not know

  • Chezwick_mac

    Raymond hit the nail on the head with his first response…the fact that he is an ethnic Egyptian and NOT a European-American had EVERYTHING to do with him not being dis-invited. He's becoming increasingly important to the anti-Jihad…and may some day have the mantle of leadership passed on to him from Robert.

    • No Dhimmi

      Too true, although being a black African female victim of Islam doesn't prevent Ayaan Hirsi Ali from being attacked. Nevertheless, she's certainly got more cred with the MSM than, say, Terry Jones, even though he's basically saying the same things.

  • tanstaafl

    The simple fact that it is halal for Muslims to practice both taquiyya and kittman should be enough to give any neutral observer a key into the dogma and ethics of Islam.

  • StephenD

    "the hate exists in the texts that I quote…."
    This says it all.
    The Islamic world seeks either seemingly peacefully or through outright violent actions to subjugate the balance of the world for Islam. This is their mandate.
    You cannot be a friend unless you are one of them. There is no in between. The only criteria for you to be an enemy is not for you to have "wronged" them in some fashion but merely to not believe the way they do. THAT'S IT! And no "Moderate" and no Politician and no Kumbayah Left Wing Preacher can change this fact. Followers of Islam will NEVER STOP in their mandated goal of converting the entire world to Islam…however they have to.
    I make it a point to get this fact out to all that wonder after “Peaceful, Moderate Muslims” (None of which have ever shied away from this mandate for to do so would make them a non-Muslim).

  • Avigail

    Thank you Ibrahim, for not caving in to CAIR-Center for the Advancement of Islamic Radicals!! May G-d bless you and give you strength to continue your great work.

    • Peaceful_Living

      Raymond Ibrahim left the college professors thoroughly embarrassed! Don't believe me? Ask any one who was there at the follow up panel on May 12th where they talked about Raymond's event! No serious college should invite this guy unless they want to be seen as a joke of an educational institution.

  • OLJingoist

    PART 1
    1. Islam is about Muslims.

    No, Islam is about everyone. Islam has rules about everything, and that includes non-Muslims. 61% of the Koran is about non-Muslims. It has rules about whether or not Muslims should befriend non-Muslims; about how to treat non-Muslims captured in war; about whether non-Muslim women can be raped; the attitude to take towards the possessions of non-Muslims. Most of these rules are unfavourable or hostile toward non-Muslims.

    2. Islam is a race (kind of).

    There’s a lot of sloppy thinking about this. Making this assumption will render you incapable of any clear thinking on the subject. When you think about it, it’s obvious Islam is a belief system, but when people criticise Islam they are often accused of racism. Defenders of Islam are happy to exploit this tendency as a charge of racism carries such force in a society sensitised to it. But Islam is and always will be a belief system, not a gene pool.

    3. Islam is a religion.

    There is a theme of personal salvation within Islam which gives it some similarities to other religions. However, this is not the main part of Islam. It is mainly a political and legal system with rules concerning the conduct of every imaginable subject from warfare to wiping your bottom. It is both highly political and very personal which may help to explain its huge capacity for taking offence. In a society concerned about discriminating against people on the basis of religion, the religious dimension of Islam can be exploited for political gain.

    Islam teaches that achieving personal salvation is done through obeying all the rules and extending Islam’s control of the world. The surest way to personal salvation is by being killed whilst fighting for Islam.

    Islam is often described by Muslims as a “total system of life”. This is a fair description. The effects of this system can be seen right across the Muslim world where women are subordinated, free expression is non-existent, and tyranny in one form or another is the norm.

    • fmobler

      RE; 2.

      While it is true that Islam is not a race, but a believe system, it does carry a racist burden itself. The language of the Koran is Arabic. It was dictated to Mohamed by an angel who got the skinny from Allah himself. In other words, Allah himself speaks a Arabic. Muslims who don't are, well, submitting in an inferior way. More directly, Allah himself. in his favored language said (3:100) "You (Arabs) are the best of peoples". Note that this is not the same as election of the Jews, whom G*d chose. This Koran verse asserts superiority, not chosenness for a mission.

      Check out http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e76.html for a contemporary example of the horrible contortions of logic needed to make sense of this obvious racism at the heart of Islam (read to the end to get the full effect of incoherence).

    • Bernadette de Wit

      ad 2. Islam is a congenital disorder.
      According to the hadith Allah breathes the the dual islamic slave/jihad soul into the beginning fetus (i.e. a clot of blood according to islamic embryology) in the womb. The baby is born a Muslim, hence the verb revert.

      For Muslims, coming from a premodern culture, the difference between genetic and congenital is difficult to understand. I even think they have a point playing the race card. Given their alarming rate of inbreeding, it makes sense to assume a (dysgenic) Muslim gene pool may originate at some point of time.
      Moreover, I think that epigenetics may also be involved as a consequence of the twisted upbringing Muslim kids have undergone for centuries.

    • Tim Bus

      a “total system of life”.

      Don't you mean a total system of death?

  • OLJingoist

    PART 2
    4. The word “Islam” means “peace.”

    Actually, “Islam” means “submission”. The basic idea is that perfect submission to the will of Allah brings peace. How do Muslims know the will of Allah? By studying what Muhammad said and did. What did Muhammad say and do? He brought new lands under the control of Islam and told his followers to do the same. So Muslims bring new lands under the control of Islam. When the whole world submits to the will of Allah, there will be “peace”, as Islam defines it.

    In the past, Islam conquered new lands by following Muhammad’s example of military conquest. Today, this is less feasible so Islam follows Muhammad’s example of migration (al-Hijra). This is a 3 step process: (a) migrate (b) multiply (c) dominate. (b) is achieved by new arrivals, having large families, and converting the host population. (c) is achieved by subversion, increasing intimidation, then revolution. (a), (b) and (c) are mutually reinforcing. For example, the power achieved through (b) and (c) can be used to block controls on (a) migration.

    5. Because most Muslims are not violent it must mean that Islam is not violent.

    The perception that most Muslims are not violent will depend on where you live. In those countries where Muslims are more dominant, they tend to be more aggressive. As a rule of thumb, where Muslims are a minority they are less violent. This goes back to the birth of Islam: when Muhammad had a small band of followers in Mecca, the message he gave them was peaceful and tolerant (“Let there be no compulsion in religion” is a favourite from this period); when he migrated to Medina and established dominance he and his followers became more violent (“Kill the unbelievers wherever ye find them” is a favourite from this period). The message he taught after migrating to Medina is saturated with violence. The principle here is that when Muslims are in a weak position, the Meccan message is uppermost; when they are dominant, the Medinan message is unleashed.

    In effect, Islam is both violent and tolerant: when circumstances dictate, it is driven by the Meccan message; but, when circumstances allow, it switches to the Medinan message. Being a “good” Muslim and doing what’s right for Islam will change accordingly.

    6. The best person to ask about Islam is a Muslim.

    About 90% of Muslims know very little about Islam. Most Muslims do not study Islam for themselves; they get their opinions ready-made from their leaders. They don’t have an in-depth knowledge and most probably don’t want it because the consequences of forming a deviant viewpoint can be fatal. Many Muslims are also in denial about the real nature of Islam.

    Given what has been said about the Meccan and the Medinan messages, how do you know which message your Muslim is familiar with? And, if your Muslim knows the Medinan message is he/she going to tell you? There is a longstanding principle of using deception to protect the faith and the faithful in Islam which, as with all things Islamic, goes back to Muhammad’s own example

    • sedoanman

      7. Islam is judgmental. If you are a non-believer, you are going to hell, a political prison for those who disagree with Mohammed.

      8. "I know some good Muslims; therefore, Islam is good." A non sequitur if there ever was one.

    • Peaceful_Living

      Yeah right! If you want real knowledge, check out http://WWW.WHYISLAM.ORG This is the stuff Raymond and his homies don't want you to read through!

  • txgrandma

    This article really gives me hope. Thanks for presenting it!

    I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and know that taking on the left is something that will make life very difficult for you. This was clearly pointed out in the treatment of this story by KING 5 (an NBC affiliate) on 'covering' this story. This makes what EvCC did even more amazing and it is heartening to know that there are people in this region of the country who are waking up. I do know that there are others there and they need to speak up and let their voices be heard and may just find out that they ARE the majority.

    Growing up in Seattle made me think that there was only one point of view on issues and that was the liberal view. (I was secretly a conservative.) It took leaving this part of the country, (now living in TX) to realize that not everyone felt this way, including many in the NW.

    God bless Ibrahim and the Everett Community College. Through them and people like them, God is blessing America!

  • sedoanman

    Quote:

    CAIR WHOPPER NUMBER 8: “CAIR has some fifty thousand members,” [CAIR Communications Director Ibrahim] Hooper contends.[Footnote 18]

    In fact, the actual figure is one-tenth that size – 5,1 33 – according to internal CAIR records. [Footnote 19]

    After the Washington Times reported in 2007 that CAIR's membership was rapidly shrinking due to negative publicity over its terror ties, CAIR accused the “right-wing” newspaper of “falsely suggesting there has been a drop.”

    “Our membership is increasing steadily,” [CAIR Executive Director Nihad] Awad insisted.

    “Support for CAIR has grown,” Hooper added. [Footnote 20]

    Two months later, CAIR filed a court brief in which it acknowledged membership indeed was down, blaming it on bad publicity from the Holy Land terror trial. It pleaded with the judge hearing the case to strike its name from the list of co-conspirators.

    “This negative reaction by the American public can be seen in the decline of membership rates and donations resulting from the government's publicizing of CAIR as an un-indicted co-conspirator,” CAIR attorney Moffitt wrote in the brief. [Footnote 21]

    Among the proof he submitted to the court was the same Washington Times article Hooper just two months earlier had trashed as false and biased. Apparently even CAIR's lawyers can't keep up with CAIR's lies.

    Unquote

    Muslim Mafia
    by Paul Sperry
    Chapter eight, “CAIR’s Ten Biggest Whoppers.”

  • Jane Kahn

    You assault on general Islam as opposed to specific groups expose you as a bigot and racist.

    • No Dhimmi

      How utterly asinine. Sorry, but your Islamist tactics won't work here. It IS Islam that's the problem, as well as "specific groups," and there's plenty of assault here on the specific group of CAIR.

      And Islam isn't a race, so your crocodile tears are transparent. I have to wonder if Islamists believe we all have 80 IQs to fall for such garbage.

      Bigoted? Yes, I'm bigoted against a infidel-hating, woman-enslaving ideology responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions worldwide.

    • sedoanman

      Can't offer any logical arguments? Hurl ad hominems.

      There is nothing wrong with criticizing an ideology. Muslims criticize not only other religions, but un-believers in general all the time, not to mention resorting to violence. to make a point. Why it's even commanded in your scriptures.

      Islam is not a race, nor are Muslims. If there are any bigots around, they are the followers of Mohammed who made bigotry a commandment for them to obey.

    • fmobler

      This is easily addressed. Take Mr. Ibrahim's criticisms (actually, you can filter out the criticisms and just take his honest quoting of Muslim sources), and apply them to any specific school of Islam you want. Be our guest, name just one strain of Islam, old or new, to which Mr. Ibrahim is unfair.

  • Mark

    Raymond is one very smart person.While Michael Schuer was telling people what Osama was telling the none Muslim world .Raymond translated what Osama was telling the Islamic world,that's the important speechs

    • Peaceful_Living

      Dude, Mark, you should have been there at Everett CC. Raymond looked like a goof and the college professors were left thoroughly embarrassed by his utter lack of knowledge and the mistakes he made over and over about Islam! It was horrible!

  • No Dhimmi

    I should add that Ibrahim is cute too. That never hurts.

    I wonder if my posts are going through? They have disappeared for some reason, or perhaps this site is moderated. Either way, keep up the good work.

  • Dr. Ibrahim Soudy

    I think that it would be much better if this kind of subject is dicussed in a FORUM with a panel to represent opposite points of view. OR better, a public debate with a speaker representing each side. Bashing Islam has become kind of a Lucrative Business for those who are seeking either money or FAME! The unfortunate fact is that the audience to such a speaker are usually people who are very ignorant about the subject at hand. Those are mostly people who are looking for someone to make them feel good about a point of view they alreay have formed via no study of the sources! In terms of freedom of speech, which I fully support, when is the Everett CC going to invite Helen Thomas to exercize HER freedom and also invite the Middle East Awareness Campaign to talk about the Bus Ads and the Billboard Ads regarding Israeli Crimes?! I am just curious if freedoms are not granted EQUALLY!

    • steven l

      Contrary to what Mr. Soudy claims, it is very expensive to defend oneself against fascist Islamists (they have a lot of money from Saudi Arabia and they use scare tactics systematically). That, he must be aware off.

    • sedoanman

      Re: "I am just curious if freedoms are not granted EQUALLY!"

      They are not. People who live in Islamic countries do not have as many freedoms as those who live in Western democracies. In fact, ***MUSLIMS*** who live in Israel have more than their brothers in Saudi Arabia. There are Muslims in the Israeli Knesset. How many Jews are in ***any*** Islamic legislative body?

  • http://righthereontheleftcoast.blogspot.com/ Ralph Vaughan

    CAIR thrives on fear, intimidation, hatred, racism and lies. I have seen them show up at a lecture by someone with whom they did not agree. It was not pretty, but the speaker was used to their thuggish tactics. This happened at the San Diego Public Library, which also took alot of heat, bad publicity, hate mail and death threats when they refused to ban the speaker who had paid his own money to book the auditorium. For a group that is supposedly pro-American, they are very anti-America.

  • GuyMacher

    Islam commands Muslims to lie to non-Muslims and to fight until all people are dead or feel subjugated by Muslims. I will post the citations from the Koran and Hadith should some Muslim pretend those citations don't exist.

    • Peaceful_Living

      Not true. Read the TRUTH about Islam here: http://WWW.WHYISLAM.ORG

      • GuyMacher

        Here are two of many citations I could make from the Koran– 9:29 You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth – among those who received the scripture – until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly."

        Koran 5:89 Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.

        I will post this in Arabic if you claim these are not true to the original.

        • sedoanman

          This exchange illustrates the dualistic nature of Islam: for every peaceful verse, there is an equal [or better] but opposite verse [of the sword]. So what is Islam? Whatever you need it to be in a given situation in order to further Islam.

        • Peaceful_Living

          This is hilarious. All these weirdos acting like they're Qur'anic scholars! David Duke would be proud of y'all!

          • Guy Macher

            Perhaps you could point out where I am in error.

  • covered girl

    The letter CAIR sent was not jsent by CAIR alone, but by over 58 high level religious/community leaders: Bishops, rabbis, pastors, imams, heads of large community service organizations, etc.

    The full letter with the list of 58 signatories may be viewed here: http://www.tinyurl.com/everettcc

    The text of the letter was written and edited mainly by two persons: a pastor and a community organizational leader, both non-Muslim.
    Raymond Ibrahim's speech at the college was riddled with factual errors and conspiracy theories
    At a discussion session held May 12th, college professors said they were "embarrassed" by his speech including the factual errors and his sweeping comments. Some of the professors called it "hate speech"

    • Peaceful_Living

      Word!

    • sedoanman

      Def.: "hate speech" — speech expressing an opinion that professors disagree with.

      • Peaceful_Living

        Aaanh! Wrong! Try again homie! Ever heard of a dictionary?

  • steven l

    Mr. BHO, Islam, Qur'an and Sharia can and MUST reform or not be allowed in this country.
    Since Muhammad copied from the Old Testament, let them now copy from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The hard work is already done. The doc. is at the UN that they control.
    That is not too difficult. Scan and click print.
    VOILA!
    In a few minutes Islam (and 1.2 Bil. humans) can fly through time, from the 622 CE to the 2011 CE
    effortlessly (no more need for the xenophobic version jihad)

  • Peaceful_Living

    Wanna know what Jews think of Muslims? Check out this video of Rabbi Jason Klein from UMBC Hillel talking about his fellow Americans who happen to be Muslim! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkyYBy71mWQ

  • Philclock

    Islam taken literally, as it is by CAIR, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Al Qada, the Iranian leaders and other extremists, is no different than any other cult or "progressive" group; the ends justifies the means, individual rights have no standing, and no protection. It's back to the rule of the few; whomever's in power, tells everybody else what to do, through their kangaroo courts. Thus the show trials of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Fidel, Iran. It is no surprise to me that "progressives" in America, including I suspect many people of the Jewish faith, sympathize, if not secretly support and pay for, these extremist culst.

    All "progressives", under whatever moniker, MUST be put into the light of day, shown to everyone for what they are, confronted and stopped. And that includes those on our front porch, who crammed health care, financial and energy "reform" down our throats.

  • Peaceful_Living

    Wow! Philclock has got the same state of mind and thinking as the Norway terrorist!

  • Peaceful_Living

    Hey Philcock, check out http://WWW.WHYISLAM.ORG and may be you'll learn something, huh?