Evicting Occupy Wall Street

Pages: 1 2

Finally, after nearly two months during which the epicenter of the Occupy Wall Street movement became an incubator of disease, rape and other assaults, thefts and drug peddling, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg took action. In the wee hours of Tuesday morning November 15th, the New York Police Department took back Zuccotti Park from the occupiers, issuing a notice to them to clear out in order to allow a long overdue cleaning to take place.

“You are required to immediately remove all property, including tents, sleeping bags and tarps from Zuccotti Park. That means you must remove the property now,” read the police notice. “You will be allowed to return to the park in several hours, when this work is complete. If you decide to return, you will not be permitted to bring your tents, sleeping bags, tarps and similar materials with you.”

Shortly thereafter, the police moved in. Most of the protesters appeared to comply with the police order. Those who resisted were arrested. According to the Associated Press, there were at least seventy arrests.

But the saga was just beginning to unfold. Protesters pretending that they really had an important cause akin to the civil rights movement sang “We Shall Overcome” while others, pretending they were as brave and serious-minded as the Egyptian dissidents revolting against that country’s brutal dictatorship, banged their drums and yelled: “New York, Cairo, Wisconsin, push us down we’ll rise again!”

Meanwhile, in order to vindicate their imaginary “First Amendment” rights to construct tents on other people’s property as well as bang drums, defecate, urinate, and do drugs along with their speechifying, the protesters’ lawyers went to court. At around 6:30 AM on November 15th, attorneys associated with the New York City Chapter of the far-left National Lawyers Guild working as the Liberty Park Legal Working Group (LPLWG) managed to find  a sympathetic Manhattan Supreme Court judge who issued a temporary restraining order against the City of New York, various city agencies, and Brookfield Properties, the owner of Zuccotti Park, directing that occupiers be allowed back on the premises with their belongings. The defendants were prohibited from “evicting protesters from Zuccotti Park” and from “enforcing the ‘rules’ published after the occupation began or otherwise preventing protesters from re-entering the park with tents and other property previously utilized.”

How does one explain the lunacy of an order that prohibits the owner of private property dedicated to public use from issuing reasonable rules addressing health and safety concerns and barring squatting in tents that effectively block other members of the public who don’t agree with the occupiers from exercising their right to use the park?  The judge who signed the temporary restraining order, Lucy Billings, spent 25 years as a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union before becoming a judge in 1997.

The petitioning lawyers included Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights and former president of the National Lawyers Guild; Margaret Ratner Kunstler, former education director at the Center for Constitutional Rights; and Bina Ahmad, a former intern at the Center for Constitutional Rights and currently the legal program assistant to Badil Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights and legal consultant to the Norwegian Refugee Council’s Occupied Palestinian Territories office.

Pages: 1 2

  • BS77

    OWS: Idiocy on steroids.

    • Herman Caintonette

      I'm sure you would have said the same thing about our Founding Fathers, BSTory.

      In 1962, John F. Kennedy famously said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." Perhaps you would prefer the latter?

      • BS77

        Comparing this mob of anarchists with the Founding Fathers is a typical leftist ploy. However, it is a false analogy. The OWS have no Constitution, no plan, no job program, no economic or pollitical blueprint….they do have filthy camps saturated with human waste and garbage. Face it, Caintonette, most Americans are sick of the OWS encamplments and are glad the courts, City Halls and Police are clearing OWS out of the public parks. OWS offers nothing for reforming financial institutions, for job creation, for the unemployed or homeless…..unless you call throwing rocks at windows a gift to the people.

        • Herman Caintonette

          They didn't have one in 1774. Think of the OWS Declaration as an analogue to the Suffolk Resolves.

          Gits like you said the same thing about the civil rights and anti-war movements, but it is clear that OWS enjoys far more popular support than the Astroturfed Tea Party. 72% of New Yorkers think that OWS has a right to stay at Liberty Park.

          • BS77

            The Constitution, which the Tea Party favors over anarchy and mob violence, does champion the right to assemble….it does not mean the right to camp indefinitely on private or public property, using parks as toilets etc etc The OWS movement is not at all like the civil rights and voting rights movements…which I supported.

          • Herman Caintonette

            The public commons is precisely that. Under the rules existing at the time, there was no law forcing them to leave. There is no time limit, either direct or implied, in the First Amendment.

            OWS is very much like the anti-war and civil rights movements. In point of fact, the civil rights movement started with an occupation — a lunch counter at a Woolworth's. However, the closest historical analogue to OWS was the Bonus Army. The technique worked back then, providing a blueprint for OWS.

            As for "mob violence," the only mobsters are the pigs in blue. OWS has insisted on maintaining a non-violent approach, much like the anti-war movement. Much as Kent State strengthened the anti-war movement, the brutishness of Bloomberg's bobbies is invigorating OWS.

          • fiddler

            You know Hermie, you totally ignore the whole point of the article: does the protracted "occupation" with its in-your-face attitude trump those who disagree and want to use the park for their own purposes? Or, is everyone supposed to give ground to this "Politicaly-Correct" (that means, "no one DARE disagree") movement because "dude, it's happening". People like you stray more and more away from sanity because you are enslaved to you ideology. No-one and nothing matters except "THE CAUSE". The rest of humanity can to where the "sun don't shine".

          • fiddler

            Grammatical correction (just in case you object): "The rest of humanity can GO where the "sun don't shine".

          • fiddler

            The pigs in blue are uniformed officers who are trained and put their lives on the line every day. Shame on you for refering to them that way! Interesting that these same "pigs" risked their lives back in 2001 for the sake of their community. These people are obeying orders lawfully given. Does law matter to you, or a "CAUSE". The National Socialist Party has a "CAUSE" too, remember?

          • fiddler

            Consider the source. And remember who owns the megaphone (NBC, CBS, CNN, and ABC, and the Gray Lady). The Left always produces their adherents. Give it time.

            Go ahead and throw the police under the bus. After all, anyone that doesn't support OWS is outside "what's happening" and doen't count anyway right? If there were people who disagreed (and there no-doubt are) do you THINK they would get much coverage from the Gray Lady? I think not. It's about selective reporting.

      • "gunner"

        believe it, you don't want to threaten us with violent revolution, the last time you tried that we let the professionals handle it. the next time might be different. there's a reason you lot want us disarmed, and we both know what it is. i'm a peaceful old man, but if you bring violence to me i can and will return it in full measure, heaped up and running over. the marine corps taught me well and i have not forgotten.

        • Herman Caintonette

          I don't want to disarm you; the entire purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure that our nation cannot be taken over, even from within. The lessons of Switzerland (every able-bodied male is armed), in contrast to the experiences of Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, and Mubarak's Egypt should constitute a cautionary tale.

    • Noway2no

      In any human social system the struggle is the same; the worst are always hungriest for control. They are always cheating, always leveraging, always marginalizing and chipping away; looking to take what they know is not theirs.

  • BIG IRISH

    we have a word here in Toronto for these bums…loogans….LOOses-HooliGANS….GET RID OF THE BUMS!

    • Herman Caintonette

      "Hooligans" is synonymous with Irishmen; as Dershowitz said, any group with a reputation like that did something to deserve it.

      • trickyblain

        Excuse me, but as an Irishman, I take great offense to your slanderous libel. It's "drunk hooligans," thank you very much.

        • Herman Caintonette

          "Fighting Irish" is a redundancy … and yes, Imperial gallons of Guiness do tend to factor into the equation.

  • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

    AS I HAD SUSPECTED, Zuccotti Park, formerly called Liberty Plaza Park, was created in exchange with THE PEOPLE in exchange for a building code easement. It is the Commons.

    • mrbean

      It ain't the trailer park nor is it a camp grounds and it sure as hell is not a toilet., flippy. Obe of your friends here! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4ad_1321393630

      • Herman Caintonette

        When you gotta go, you gotta go. If they could have brought port-a-pots and shower facilities, they would have.

        • aspacia

          They are pigs and should not be camping out in these areas, especially if there were no facilities. A normal person would have more common sense.

      • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

        Now show us some pictures of your friends pooping on the Constitution.

    • Herman Caintonette

      Klein: "Meanwhile, in order to vindicate their imaginary “First Amendment” rights to construct tents on other people’s property"

      And still, you wonder why "to Jew" was a verb? In the words of Dershowitz, any group with that kind of reputation did something to deserve it. This "Harvard-trained" LIAR is a blot on the legal profession. "Liberty Park" is a part of the public commons, and that whorish sack of matzo knows it.

      The constitutionally problematic aspect of this case is that the restrictions that the court imposed were imposed AFTER OWS started their protest and as such, were quite obviously intended to quash their speech. As such, they are not reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions on speech. Now, if they had been imposed prior to the Occupation, they might have been seen as reasonable, but that water is under the bridge.

      The societally problematic aspect of the eviction is and was that our police act like Nazi stormtroopers, busting heads and firing pepper spray in an indiscriminate and destructive manner. Sieg Heil!

      We've seen this play before/ First, they came for the trade unionists. Then, they came for the Jews…. If you aren't very, very afraid, you aren't paying attention.

      • Steeloak

        Maybe we'll get lucky & they'll come for the idiots.

        • Herman Caintonette

          You will be in the front of the short bus in that load….

          • Steeloak

            Nah, I'll be watching as the men in white coats drive you away to the looney bin.

      • aspacia

        Little Cain,

        These areas were turned into a huge health hazard and are extremely violent with 75 police documented rapes and more than one murder.

        Compare these protests to the Tea Party protests and note the huge differences.

        • fiddler

          He doesn't want to. Such words are respectful aren't in OWS vocabulary. This is not about civility, not about resonable discourse. This is about force. We heard the rumblings of riot yesterday, and that guy was imprisoned.

          MR Herm thinks that the First Amendment protects civil disobedience for no other reason than really "I'm p__ed off".

          • fiddler

            Correction "Such words like "respectful" aren't in OWS vocabulary.

            Which by the way really mean, "WE CAN'T STAND BEING NICE".

  • aspacia

    OW's need to protest Obama's administration's meddling in business; this administration favored GM, and others, and kicked others to the curb.

    What is wrong with these people? They do not even know who is to blame for the housing bubble, and our other economic difficulties. Freddie and Fannie, Bahr Sterns, etc should not be bailed out.

    • Herman Caintonette

      Asp, your effluent could fill the Grand Canyon. Rescinding regulations will merely cause a repeat of the bad things that caused the regulations to be enacted in the first place.

      • aspacia

        Overregulation is the EPA's power grab. Like all humans, especially Lenin, Obama and similar tyrants,this group want to control, Otherwise, they would follow Just practices not just cronyism and ignoring laws. Look at how Obama is planning to use executive power to achieve his communist goals; yes, the O is going beyond just socialism, just look at the WH register for visitors names.

        I had to research primary sources this afternoon for work. I will deal with you and oil drilling later, as usual.

        Why does O promote oil drilling by other countries in and around our land, but not our companies? I can prove this.

      • aspacia

        Little Cain, try to correctly use the English language to avoid looking stupid. Also, avoid vague words to retain clarity!

  • davarino

    So I guess it will be like zombies wandering around the park late at night, if they stay through the night. This is what you have spawned New York. How do you like it? We have some of the wierdness here in Austin, but its just a bunch of people camped out. Is camping considered free speech? I wander if they will wave my camping fees the next time I go to a national park? Camping fees waved for those with a message.

    "Down with capitalism, and greed, and camping fees"

    • Herman Caintonette

      Capitalism inevitably degenerates into plutonomy, unless it is properly regulated. The problem here is that because our officials have all been bought, our capitalism is no longer properly regulated, and we are now living under the heel of a fascist plutonomy.

      The wisdom of Frederick Douglass is worth repeating: "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." Let us all hope that peaceful protest is sufficient to facilitate change.

      • davarino

        I'm with ya on that. The OWS should be protesting in front of the White House, Congress, Barney Fwank, Chris Dodd, Charley Rangle, Solyndra, GM, Pelosi, Kennedy, Feinstein……etc. Why the banks? They only got away with what these idiots let them, but OWS doesnt care because they are running interference for the communist take over

  • StephenD

    I expect them to disassemble and regroup in the spring more vehemently and strident in their zeal. By then they will have more indoctrinated "leaders" who will be able to direct these idiots to be the front line in their attempt to create Anarchy. This is the top layer of a move to weaken and eventually overthrow our government and by the way it is being fostered, in its place they'll have Socialism which history tells us doesn't work and leads directly to a Dictatorship. As for me, I choose to stick with Liberty. When and if they present a better system than what we have now, I'll listen. When they come up with something worse, they are in effect proclaiming themselves an enemy of the Constitution for which we all as Americans are to resist. I expect this thing to get real ugly. Next year is going to be rough.

    • Herman Caintonette

      If you chose liberty and self-governance over fascist plutonomy, you'd be down with OWS.

      • StephenD

        They suffer from a "Catastrophe of Identity" as they perceive themselves as individuals amid a cacophony of uniformity. As loud as they get the voice is the same ~ an impetuous child whining for someone else’s property. Not one of them has presented a clear picture of what they seek except Anrachy. To you, because I choose Liberty, I should align myself with those who, in the end, would grind me into "one of them" and ultimately subjugate me. You really are a fool.

        • Herman Caintonette

          It is a brilliant organizing strategy, insofar as it prevents the movement from being co-opted by entrenched interests like the way Dick Armey and the Koch Klux Klan bought the Tea Party. The core thesis of OWS is not anti-capitalist but rather, that we suffer taxation without representation. When companies are too big to fail and certain individuals are too important to jail, the social contract which we call our Constitution — that all men are treated equally — is abrogated.

          • coyote3

            Gee, too important to jail. Please provide the identities of those who have committed these crimes you reference, the statute numbers, and the conduct of the specific individual that conforms to the elements of each crime you allege, and the admissible evidence you have to support proof of each element of the respective crimes. Also, please provide what efforts you have taken to present this evidence to the prosecuting attorney.

          • davarino

            If thats what I thought they really were about I'd be with them, but that is not what they are about and they say so. So nice try with the subterfuge.

      • aspacia

        The OW's are to stupid to govern or control themselves and are trying to destroy freedom by confiscation and destruction or private and public property.

    • tagalog

      I have strong doubts that there will be much (if any) re-grouping of OWS next spring. By then, exam time will be approaching and they'll have to do well if they want to get into the grad school of their choice. In the fall, during the actual campaign, they'll be grinding away at their first year of post-grad studies. Also, by next spring, a lot of their original self-styled hot passions will have cooled. Finally, they've built for themselves their authenticity as true inheritors of the 60s, and now they'll be perfectly willing to forego risking getting their heads busted and go on to teach the nation's youth about their epic, months-long struggle against capitalist oppression.

      • Herman Caintonette

        You're not living in the real world. OWS isn't just college kids; a 84-year-old grandma was pepper-sprayed by the Nazi York Police Department in the eviction. Besides, if you know your Alinsky, you know that tactics will change.

        • aspacia

          Little Cain, it is Ow's aren't (plural). If the grandmother refused to leave—oh, well, bad choice — age does not make a person wise.

        • Steeloak

          That "Granny" is a well known lefty loon in the Seattle area. Dorli Rainey – look her up.
          I suspect she deliberately confronted the officer that sprayed her so that her friends could get that "money shot" for OWS to spread around.

          OWS is the same type of lefty front organization I have seen since the '60's. They always consist of idealistic but naive college kids and aging leftys, all being used by hard core Communist groups to further their agenda of destroying America. Read "Masters of Deceit" to understand what is really going on. Usefull idiots on parade is what they are.

  • myohmy

    Here's the bottom line and no so called expert or talking head or judge has gotten it right so far. The protesters have the right to protest as long as they don't deprive the rest of us our right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. That means they don't have the right to prevent us from going to work, school, conducting normal business and normal living activities. The rights of the freeloading, unemployed jerks do not supercede the rights of we the people. If the legal authorities and courts do not protect our rights we will have to meet these jerks in the streets and teach them how democracy really works. A few freeloading jerks don't get to impose their will on the majority of citizens. The tail doesn't wag the dog. If these bastards shut down our cities, our streets and our public places they are denying us our rights. Screw that…. if the cops don't evict them it's up to us to do it. I'm ready.

  • tkellybal

    The entire 'Occupy' movement is just one big hissy fit / temper tantrum by a bunch of immature, childish, spoiled brats.
    I call it "Envyfest" 2011.

    • Herman Caintonette

      Okay, so you are a clueless idiot. Stay home and polish your Gott Mitt Uns belt-buckle like a good little Kraut.

      • tagalog

        I'd really like to have one of those "Gott Mit Uns" belt buckles; I bet they have significant collector value. You seem to know about them; do you know where I can get one?

  • Rifleman

    Someone must have told bloomberg they were salting their food. Better late than never, I hope the flea baggers’ parents remember to delouse them before they let their brats back in their basement. I bet the people in that neighborhood will be glad to have their park back and a little peace and quiet at night.

    • trickyblain

      Well, except for that massive 24/7 construction project.

  • Ben

    occupiers remaind me forced participants of Soviet political demonstrations.They defecate,urinate and drank immense number of hot drinks and vaguely understood the political meaning of their presence.

  • poetcomic1

    Keep them there – the longer the better. All America can watch them like disease breeding in a petri dish. Stick microphones in their faces and let them talk on and on till they lapse into incoherent infantile blubbering. This has been very educational. Our President's 'tea party' indeed!

  • Herman Caintonette

    To the usual suspects:

    Beth: "What would you know about the teachings of Jesus Herman "killing Jewish kids is morally legitimate" Caintonette?"

    As a recovering ex-Christian, I know enough about your religion to repeatedly ensnare you in your boundless hypocrisy. When I posited the proposition here that the killing of a tyrant's children was a morally acceptable act, I was doing so with the tale of Passover in mind. As you might recall — most Christians are woefully ignorant of their own Holy Writ — the god of Israel supposedly killed the first-born son of every Egyptian family as a punishment for Pharoah's tyranny, passing over the Hebrew households. It is rather bad form for you to denounce me for advocating what your god purportedly did.

    As I expected, the drooling religious nutters here went ape-guano crazy, questioning my parentage and worse. But if it the killing of a tyrant's child (and especially, the killing of a child who is merely a member of the tyrant's tribe) is such a manifestly and shockingly immoral act, then by definition, YOUR YHWH IS IMMORAL!

    You have two logical courses of action: Either denounce YHWH, Jesus, or Heavenly Father (for Mormons), or apologize profusely.

    Now that that is taken care of, we can talk about the spectacular unconstitutionality of the Stallman ruling.

    • mrbean

      His real name is Hemaphro Castrati, he is an Italian Eunich.

      • Herman Caintonette

        And Beano's real name is Jerry Sandusky; he has lots of time on his hands these days.

    • StephenD

      You fool. You compare yourself with the Creator. Because what He does with his creation is his to do and NOT yours.

      Psalm 14:1-3 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good.

      If this doesn't describe you perfectly….

      • Herman Caintonette

        I see. Might makes right, and the ends justify the means. And your god is different from Al'lah exactly how?

        Either morality is objective, or it does not exist.

        • http://visionsandprinciples.blogspot.com/ InRussetShadows

          No, Mr. ex-Christian, ignorant of much of Christianity! The argument here is about the nature of God and the nature of man. Man is non-omniscient and prone to sin (incorrect moral judgements); God has neither of those handicaps.

          As an ex-Christian, you have no idea how the Triune Christian God is different from Allah? Really? *ROFL*

    • Caraman

      Not enough care for the mentaly confused

    • tony

      Herman, please explain why Stallman's ruling is spectacularly unconstitutional. Now I'm not attacking you, I'm simply asking you a question. As an attorney, I will be keenly interested in your legal reasoning.

      • Herman Caintonette

        The restrictions in question were implemented specifically to quash speech. As I am sure you know, since Liberty Park is part of the public commons, they must be narrowly tailored to achieve a legitimate governmental purpose. If you are OWS elsewhere, YMMV; the NY OWS team includes some sharp people, who thought this one through.

        If similar restrictions on use of the site had been imposed without contemplation of the speech in question — say, a year ago — they would have easily qualified as reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. But when the purpose is — and quite obviously so — to burden or disadvantage a certain viewpoint, they must be able to survive strict scrutiny to pass 1st/14th Amendment muster and of course, the case law teaches that strict in theory means never in fact.

        I'm used to being attacked around here; I like playing with old law school hypos and see the fur fly.

        • tagalog

          I always thought the "narrow tailoring" was one of the tests applied to Fourteenth Amendment "suspect classification" equal protection claims, not First Amendment free speech claims. But maybe I'm wrong.

          • tony

            Strict scrutiny is a three pronged test applied to any government action taken that infringes upon an individual's fundamental rights. I think Herman's premise is wrong when he states the purpose here is quash free speech. If that was the case, why did the authorities wait so long to take action? It's an assembly issue and a public forum issue. Please see my response below as to why I believe the authorities are correct in their approach.

        • tony

          Full disclosure Herman. I'm a guy who believes Mayor Bloomberg suffers from a severe case of megalomania. I also believe as a conservative republican that the longer these protests go on, the better for my side politically. That said , I think you gave a well thought out response.

          Unfortunately, your entire premise is incorrect. You stated "The restrictions in question were implemented specifically to quash speech." That's simply wrong. In this case, there were several legitimate reasons to remove the OWS squatters. For starters, there is a public safety issue. It is undeniable that people have been assaulted, rapes have taken place and drugs are being dealt. There's also a health issue. At some point in time, the lack of hygiene starts to take over. We've had reports of lice infestation at the Portland camp.
          I also don't have any idea what the 14th amendment has to do with it, unless you were referencing that as an example of a fundamental right.

          What I see here is the same old issue with leftists. The people occupying Liberty Park do so to the detriment of others who may wish to enjoy the park. They're free to say what they what, when they want and for the most part where they want. But they do not have exclusive ownership of the Liberty Park and have denied others the very rights they claim for themselves. It's akin to when leftists come to speeches given by conservatives and shout them down. They claim to be exercising free speech rights, yet deny that same right to others by disrupting their constitutionally protected speech. As you yourself point out in a roundabout way, the 1st amendment is not absolute. Neither is the right to assemble for weeks on end in a public forum when such assembly interferes with the 1st amendment rights of others.

          One last thing Herman. Part of the problem is the occupiers at many of these encampments have been denying the police access. More disturbingly, the occupiers have apparently been covering up some serious crimes. In fact, they've even advertised the fact that they will not report criminal activity to the authorities.

          Now when we talk about the strict scrutiny test, which is the test applied when a law is made or an action taken seemingly in violation of a fundamental right, I think it's safe to say that the government has a compelling interest to protect its citizenry, even if the individual citizen him/herself seems disinterested. For legal purposes, crimes are committed against the state and not individuals.

          In conclusion, I simply don't accept the premise that this is an attempt to quash speech. If that was the intent, then it would have happened on day one, not several weeks in. The park is a disaster, there are crimes being committed and the residents of that area of the city might just want to exercise their own right to inhabit the park for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. We do not give anyone an absolute right to do something if it substantially interferes with another individuals right to the same thing.

          • Herman Caintonette

            tony: If that was the intent, then it would have happened on day one, not several weeks in.

            Tactics, Counselor, tactics. First, they tried to wait it out. Then, they tried to get the Commissioner to move them, but he couldn't. Liberty Park is not a publicly-owned park, which means that a curfew statute applying to other city parks could not be enforced. (OWS knew what it was doing, thinking ahead and covering every contingency.) Then, Bloomberg made his move. The Nazi York P. D. moved in, bearing a distinct resemblance to Imperial Stormtroopers. Res ipsa loquitur applies here.

            As for the judge's ruling, benches are bought and sold like penny candy in New York. See generally, http://www.judgewatch.org . Dershowitz says it is the same all over, and based on what I have seen personally, I am in total agreement. As Roy Cohn said, I "don't care if my opponent knows the law, as long as I know the judge." We're not much better than Somalia; I am not surprised by the ruling, despite the brevity of the analysis and its apparent unsoundness. Again, Dershowitz hits the nail on the head:

            "Trust no one in power, including—especially—judges. Don’t take judicial opinions at face value. Go back and read the transcript. Cite-check the cases, You will be amazed at how often you will find judges “finessing” the facts and the law."

            Alan Dershowitz, Letters To a Young Lawyer 11 (Basic Books 2001)

            Sanitation? What a joke! OWS had a functioning sanitation detail, medical facilities, and even a library. In the beginning, they could have used more than a few port-a-pots, but they solved their problems as they developed. (Granted, Occupy Portland isn't as organized; local groups work more as flash-mobs these days.)

            As for rapes, OWS moved quickly after two sexual assaults were reported (one was statutory), and the perpetrator was turned over to police.

            ""OWS exists within a broader culture where sexual assault is egregiously common: someone in the US is sexually assaulted every 2 minutes, most assaults are never reported, and most rapists are never held to account," the statement reads. "We are creating and sharing strategies that educate and transform our community into a culture of consent, safety, and well-being. At OWS, these strategies currently include support circles, counseling, consent trainings, safer sleeping spaces, self-defense trainings, community watch, awareness campaigns, and other evolving community-based processes to address harm."
            http://gothamist.com/2011/11/05/occupy_wall_stree

            "But another 37-year-old protester from Park Slope tells the Daily News she feels safe enough in Zuccotti Park outside of the women-only tent: "Certainly women are the first target for any type of crazies, but I live in Park Slope, and the rapists there are more scary. I feel safer here.” Id.

            Sure, there are crimes, but then again, this is New York City.

            As your legal analysis depends on your premise, and it is not one that appears (I have participated in OWS satellite events) to be supported by the evidence that I am privy to, this should suffice as a response. As my old Torts prof used to say, "if you change the facts, the dog limps away."

          • tony

            Let's talk tactics Herman. Our beloved leader Mr. Obama jumped on board the OWS ship right away. Recently, polls are showing the public really doesn't care for the whole mess. So tactically speaking, I think our beloved leader made a call to Mr. Bloomberg and it went something like this:

            Obama: Uh, um, uh, uh, the jig's up Bloomy. If this uh continues uh, um down the same path, I'm uh toast. Uh, send in the uh pigs. Uh, I mean send in the uh police and uh, um get those um losers out of there.

            Bloomberg: I'll do it just for you big guy. But I'm still the king.

            Obama: Uh, um, whatever you say, um uh Bloomy.

            So that's a little humor, if you find this kind of stuff funny. But you really expose yourself for the true radical you are when you start referring to the NYPD as Nazis and Imperial Stormtroopers. That's just silly and pathetic. In fact, the only verifiable existence of Nazis was actual NY OWS participants.

            Quite frankly Herman, I have my doubts as to whether you went to law school. You're really good at cutting and pasting, but you display a fundamental lack of understanding with regard to the Constitution. Of course, I'm not surprised by that. Let's face it man, when was the last time the left had any use for any of our founding documents. For people like you, the US Constitution is nothing more than an impediment. Hell, maybe you are a lawyer. Who knows, you might even be dumb enough to work with the ACLU.

            Quite frankly, you're head must be firmly planted in la la land if you are not "privy" to what has been reported. At events all over the country, reports of all kinds of violence has been coming out. Now let's contrast that with your favorite movement, the Tea Party. Tea partiers (or teabaggers for those Obama nut garglers with a serious case of transference) don't trash their surroundings, don't commit assaults, don't rape, don't deal drugs, don't smell, don't crap in public, don't fight with the police and they all go back to work the day after their rallies. On the other hand, OWS types…..well, you get the picture. Or you probably don't.

            Anyway, it's been nice chatting with you. Go back and read a few more books and keep trying to convince yourself you're a lawyer. Maybe you can read a first aid book and call yourself a doctor. Who knows, there's a whole world waiting to be amazed by your cut and paste abilities. As for me, because I'm a real lawyer with actual clients, I think I'll go back to work now. Reply if you want, but I won't be here to read it.

          • Herman Caintonette

            Tony Baloney: For people like you, the US Constitution is nothing more than an impediment.

            I'm not going to discount the possibility that you might be a lawyer, as those who specialize in traffic or divorce matters tend to have only a BAR/BRI-level understanding of constitutional law.. No doubt, you are a product of Willamette.

            Run along, now, Little Tony. Traffic court starts early.

          • coyote3

            That is because you are ignoring the facts, as another lawyer (which you are not) pointed out.

          • Herman Caintonette

            What facts am I ignoring? OWS is safer than most of New York City at night and, apart from insisting upon their right to protest and the clever way this movement was started, they are as "law-abiding" as anyone. Intellectually, OWSers are light-years ahead of the dim-bulb Teabaggers, who openly called themselves that until Rachel Maddow pointed out what teabagging was.

            And "coyote" fits you….

          • http://visionsandprinciples.blogspot.com/ InRussetShadows

            You mean, until Rachel Maddow applied a homosexual slang word completely out of context to people that had nothing to do with it, in order to score cheap political points and degrade the discourse. It's pretty absurd to call her action 'logical', since you're so big on logic, unless you also have a familiarity with (or affinity with) the homosexual subculture.

          • coyote3

            The fact is that they are breaking the law. By the way, a coyote is a very clever intelligent animal, and has a special meaning when applied to a human being. Whether OWS is safer than the rest of New York, is irrelevant. The "fact" remains that there were no reported rapes, robberies, drug dealing, defecating in public at the Tea Party rallies, whether you or I agree with them or not.

    • aspacia

      Little Cain, the text you miscite is the Torah. According to Torah, God said the next plague would be from Pharaoh's own decree, and it is Pharaoh who called to the murder of all first born Hebrew children.

      Evidently, you, as well as Beth do not know the Bible.

      Oh, and Beth, stuff it; you do not acknowledge valid cited sources proving Jesus did claim that he did not come to bring peace, but the sword.

    • http://visionsandprinciples.blogspot.com/ InRussetShadows

      You think that posting common atheist objections to Passover is something unique? Then you congratulate yourself on your insight and high-mindedly insult people that you're trying to convince? Oh, you were once a Christian? *ROFL* These arguments with that attitude is standard atheist "evangelization". I've seen what you've just posted probably 40 times if once.

      Your argument assumes that God has man's limited knowledge and therefore that God murders (immorally kills); and that God therefore violates the rules designed for man to follow. There are at least two objections to your arguments therein. I'm sure you know what they are.

      And since you do know what they are (being familiar with the Christian concepts of foreknowledge and sovereignty), why have you purposefully left them out of your final diktat? Really, I'm surprised that you know so little about Christianity. It makes me suspect that either you have somehow miraculously forgotten such basics of Christian theology, that you went to church but you never knew Jesus, or that you're lying about the whole thing.

      I await your cut-and-paste reply.

  • BLJ

    This whole OWS is a sham. It has been organized by unions and has the backing of the liberal establishment. This is no protest of the people.

    They are clueless dupes at best and in many cases just pure scum.

  • BS77

    OWS are the poster children for infantile entitlement disorder……defecating like infants in their tent villages, crying and whining like infants for more Nanny State oatmeal……having temper tantrums and screaming ….they are useless idiots, not even useful idiots. Some of the funniest video lately has been watching the OWS nuts trying to explain themselves to TV interviewers….some of it is hilarious.

    • Herman Caintonette

      You only hear who the propagandists at Fox want you to hear.

      "Thus far Fox's only pieces on Occupy Wall Street have been poorly developed hit jobs like this one from Bill O'Reilly, in which a producer makes fun of ill-informed children. But when Greta van Sustern attempted a similar stunt later last week, her producer got far more than he bargained for in Jesse LaGreca, one of the more outspoken Wall Street occupiers. LaGreca, who is far from a hippy-dippy rambler, puts van Sustern's producer on his heels immediately, unleashing a blistering assault on Fox News before delivering a well articulated explanation of why he's protesting. In the end the Fox News producer is forced to admit, "Fair enough. You have voiced an important reason to criticize myself and my company." It's a great instance of an embarrassed man getting his comeuppance, and you have The New York Observer to thank for it. For some reason, Greta van Sustern chose to never air the LaGreca interview.".
      http://www.good.is/post/fox-news-won-t-air-wall-s

      • UCSPanther

        You are just upset because the epicentre of this fringe movement is under attack…

        • Herman Caintonette

          "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers…."

          What happened after Kent State? OWS is far larger and more powerful than the Astroturf Tea Party — a fact that the decibel level of the whine here attests to.

          • mrbean

            Tell us here Hemaphro Castrati, did you ride belted in on the little yellow bus to the "special kids" school when you were a kid.

          • coyote3

            In fact, some of the protestors and agitators were charged and convicted. None of the guardsmen were convicted of anything. State of Ohio paid a settlement for "all" plaintiffs in civil suite – costs of defense. Sure, there were some big protests, but the war was winding down, by that time, as far as direct U.S. involvement, and so did the movement. Oh, and one more thing. The Ohio National Guard had to undergo intensive rifle range practice, because they fired so many rounds and only hit so few.

          • coyote3

            Yeah, just finished my tour across the big puddle, and was back in college. The "movement" wound down after the shootings.

      • Steeloak

        And how exactly is a well practiced rant by a clueless lefty a comeuppance to Greta, her producer, or Fox? All he displays is that he can rapidly deliver a spiel full of socialist rantings quickly. He is Obviously a Democrat, a lefty, and Obama supporter, and a redistributionist.
        I do give him credit for being cleaner and better dressed than most of the rabble there. He gets credit too for at least knowing why he is there.

  • Steeloak

    The final word on OWS. http://youtu.be/gBzJGckMYO4

    • Herman Caintonette

      So, THAT is what you look like.

  • Herman Caintonette

    SteveD: "Socialism which history tells us doesn't work and leads directly to a Dictatorship."

    Western Europe has disproven that proposition conclusively.

  • advancedatheist

    The Occupy decivilization cult showed a lack of intelligence & rational thinking from the beginning, so its implosion & alienation of the American people would have happened regardless. The Gods of the Copybook Headings win yet again.

    Meanwhile, the nation's Strict Fathers and their families will enjoy their Thanksgiving feasts in warmth & comfort next week. Thanksgiving might have had religious origins, but in practice it celebrates man's ability to produce, and to enjoy the fruits of his efforts, so I find the holiday defensible & enjoyable for secular reasons.

    What could qualify as about the exact opposite holiday, that punishes man's ability to produce and deprives him of the fruits of his efforts? Probably April 15, after progressives got into government and perverted the purposes of taxation.

  • crypticguise

    This simply is NOT a first amendment issue. But the communist, socialist, leftist, progressive lawyers don't believe in our Constituion. Ratner, Ratner-Kuntsler (must be the daughter of William Kuntsler, leftist jackass-lawyer and partner of Ron Kuby) should be terminated with extreme predjudice when a decision is made to "kill all the lawyers".

    Just joking of course; you can't kill ALL the lawyers. Can you?

  • "gunner"
  • Asher

    These Anarchists on Wall Street are not about Democracy…Now they are threatening to throw Molatile cocktails at Macys and as you know people want to shop downtown after the Thanksgiving Day parade for Christmas presents…. If I were these businesses I would be arresting looters, or violent protestors within the Full extent of the Law…They do not have the right to destroy other people's property and lives, and its time the mayors stood up for all the people's rights! Now they are blaming the Jews for being Rich Bankers, and controlling everything…Sick and Obsessed!

  • Herman Caintonette

    Where do I begin? I'm a libertarian Republican who backed Ron Paul in '08, and who opposed trickle-down economics back when we called it "voodoo" economics. I am also an active Republican official, who has been a state assembly delegate on numerous occasions.

    Let's understand the problem that OWS is attempting to address.

    Thirty years of data is now in, and Chicago School economics has been an abysmal failure. Thirty years ago, we were the world's largest creditor, the largest exporter of finished goods, and the largest importer of raw material. Today, we are the opposite, thanks to tax, trade, and labor policies that can only described as suicidal. But it has been good for the carrion at the top. The numbers don't lie: http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-we

    What happened? We stopped making things. For more than a century, the Republican Party adopted Alexander Hamilton's industrial policy, one built on intelligent protectionism. But our oligarchs, wanting to take advantage of labor arbritrage, offshoring production and undercutting wages, thereby radically altering the once-healthy balance between labor and capital. They accomplished this by buying politicians in both parties, planting moles in the executive branch, and even buying judges. We ceased to be the United States of America; we are a fascist plutonomy. http://www.box.net/shared/9if6v2hr9h

    The class war was fought — and won — by the plutocrats.

    The oligarchs stole everything that wasn't nailed down, starting with our once-healthy pension system. They ran up massive debts to finance their resource wars — Cheney and his friends carved up Iraqi oil concessions behind closed doors, and tried to install a puppet government — shifting the burden of paying for their largesse onto the working class and our children. Clinton, BushCo and "Bubbles" Greenspan hid the worst of the excesses through creating a procession of speculative bubbles, the last and most pernicious of which being the housing bubble.

    But sooner or later, the merry-go-round had to stop. And it did.

    Our economy is like an engine, which stalls when the mixture gets too rich. The rich can't buy enough to keep things going, and the poor can't afford to buy anything at all. Our children can't get started, having been saddled with crushing student debt and facing an unprecedented dearth of job prospects. And no end is in sight.

    So, what do the Republicans want to do? Eliminate the EPA, so that the Koch Klux Klan can pollute our water and air. Pass a balanced budget amendment, which will cost 15 million more jobs. Return to the good old days before the New Deal, where Grandma had to choke down dog food while freezing in the dark. The Republican health care plan: Die, already. Their economic plan? Reduce everyone to wage slavery. When the pilot of your commuter plane works three jobs and has to live on food stamps, you take your life into your hands when you buckle into your seat.

    Truth be told, the Democratic Party isn't that much better. Chris Dodd was known as the Senator from Aetna for a reason. It costs so much to run for office that groveling before the hedge fund managers is de rigeur, and they don't invest money without an expectation of a return on their investment.

    OWS is Tea Party 2.0, as the original Tea Party was acquired in a hostile takeover by Dick Armey and the Koch Klux Klan (Americans for Prosperity). We want our government back, and have come to the recognition that the system has become spectacularly unresponsive to the people who it is supposed to work for. Barry the Wall Street Water-Boy promised hope and change, but that movement was acquired by Goldman Sachs.

    OWS seems to have an understanding of the problem and is working toward a solution. If anyone here had an actual idea — instead of blind faith in the Market Fairy, despite the fact that we haven't had free markets in this country since Leland Stanford was in short pants — I'd be willing to listen. But most of what has been proposed here by my fellow Republicans suffices only as comedy relief.

    • tony

      I think one word sums up your post. Baloney.

      • Herman Caintonette

        Tony Baloney. About right.

    • http://visionsandprinciples.blogspot.com/ InRussetShadows

      A libertarian that does not believe in free markets? An atheist that celebrates Ron Paul (who claims to be born again)? A class-war-loving Republican? *ROFL* You're not even a good liar.

    • Steeloak

      If you are a Libertarian Republican, than I am Vladimir Lenin. You spout Leftist propaganda everytime you post & expect us to believe you are a libertarian Republican? I say BULL!
      I am a life long Republican with Libertarian leanings. My Father and Brother are ardent Libertarians. You sound nothing like any of us.

  • John_Kelly

    Evicting Occupy Wall Street a.k.a. "draining the swamp."

  • aspacia

    Little Cain, BS, you claimed you are from Saudi Arabia, which makes you an exMuslim, if you are an exMuslim.

  • bobmaram

    i think that thepoet w.h. yeatshad it just about right when he wrote…

    thingsfall apart;thecenter cannot hold
    mere anarchy isloosed upon the world,
    the blood-dimmed tide is loosed,and everywhere
    theceremony of innocence is drowned;
    the best lack all conviction, while the worst
    are full of passionate intensity.

    bobmaram

  • John J. James

    Thw WSO crowd is the most dysfunctional bunch of blithering idiots that have ever assembled in this nations 235 years’ of existance.

    They have no concept of Gov’t, taxes, economics.

    Most hold Liberal Arts degrees from community colleges.

    I can not wait until the riots begin and the cops club them into submission.

  • "gunner"

    i see elsewhere that this is described as a "movement", if so, and judging by the evidence left in our parks and public spaces, it looks like a bowel movement.

  • "gunner"

    yeats and kipling, both worthy gentlemen whose poetic comments still ring true in our day. kipling's "macdonough's song" might also still apply.

  • aspacia

    Seismic activity caused mountains and oil piplines. The Himalyans, San Bernardino Mountains, etc., all mountains, were created long ago by seismic activity not oil pipelines or human technology.

    Follow the money HC, follow the money. Who authorizes $ for the military? Congress and many in Congress are or were environmental fanatics.

    Oh, and please do not go on about quakes, I am from fault riven SC, live near the San Andreas Faults, and have suffered through numerous huge quakes, the Landers 7+ and the Big Bear 6.5 were nasty. I have also seen wildfires that would terrify most normal humans.

  • aspacia

    Really, Denver doesn't have quakes and neither do the areas near the Missouri River.
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/col

    The Missouri suffered a huge quake changing is course during the 1800's.

    Scientific research regarding earthquakes is new and unproven.

  • Steeloak

    Jeremy R. Hammond and his blog are not exactly a credible source. Falls into the black helicopter, loony left side of the Libertarian movement.