Betraying Israel

Joseph Klein is a Harvard-trained lawyer and the author of Global Deception: The UN’s Stealth Assault on America’s Freedom and Lethal Engagement: Barack Hussein Obama, the United Nations & Radical Islam.


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On February 18, 2011, the Obama administration vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution sought by the Palestinian Authority and introduced by Lebanon, declaring Israeli settlements to be “illegal.” In fact, the U.S. was the only Security Council member to vote against the measure. Countries supporting the resolution in a 14-1 vote, rather than at least abstaining, included the United Kingdom, France, and Germany.

However, the Obama administration wasted no time in trying to have it both ways. It piled on Israel with denunciations of its settlement policies in as strident a manner as the Palestinians and the terrorist-ruled state of Lebanon.

In her formal statement to the Security Council explaining the United States’ decision to veto this particular Security Council resolution, Ambassador Susan Rice told the council that it “risks hardening the positions of both sides. It could encourage the parties to stay out of negotiations and, if and when they did resume, to return to the Security Council whenever they reach an impasse.”

But Rice also told the council not to interpret America’s opposition to the resolution as support for Israel’s settlement activities. America rejects “in the strongest terms the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity,” she said. “Continued settlement activity violates Israel’s international commitments, devastates trust between the parties, and threatens the prospects for peace…[W]e agree with our fellow Council members – and indeed, with the wider world – about the folly and illegitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity.”

In other words, Rice is signaling to Israel’s enemies: don’t worry about the fate of this particular piece of paper in the Security Council. The United States still backs Israel’s enemies in blaming the impasse in peace negotiations on Israeli settlements. Rice was merely continuing along the lines of President Obama’s decision early in his term to come down hard on Israel by demanding a complete freeze on settlements – including on any growth in existing settlements – without requiring any meaningful concessions in return from the Palestinian side.

Rice also referred in her statement to the idea of a “contiguous” state of Palestine, essentially repeating what President Obama had said in 2009 to the United Nations General Assembly in support of “a viable, independent Palestinian state with contiguous territory that ends the occupation.” Neither President Obama nor Ambassador Rice bothered to explain how this would be possible without cutting Israel in half. Moreover, there is still that pesky problem of the rift within the Palestinian community itself between the terrorist Hamas organization that controls Gaza and the more “moderate” Palestinian Authority that controls the West Bank.

For days before the Security Council vote on the anti-Israel resolution, the Obama administration had tried to find ways to lend its support to a censure of Israel, short of a one-sided resolution that explicitly declared the settlements “illegal” and which the council’s members would have been legally obligated to enforce. For example, the U.S. negotiators had informed Arab governments that it would support a Security Council Presidential Statement stating that the Security Council “does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity, which is a serious obstacle to the peace process.” The statement would also have included a condemnation of “all forms of violence, including rocket fire from Gaza.”

How such a statement would not have hardened the positions of both sides as much as Rice had claimed the resolution would do is anyone’s guess. But it became moot after Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas rebuffed President Obama’s personal efforts to reach a compromise during a lengthy telephone call between Obama and Abbas the day before the Security Council vote.

Despite the U.S. veto, the Palestinian Permanent Observer Riyad Mansour boasted to reporters at the press stakeout outside the UN Security Council chamber about all of the support shown by the resolution’s sponsors. Israel was alone in the world in supporting its own settlements, he said.

Lebanon’s ambassador, Nawaf Salam, told reporters that his country’s main reason, as a current member of the Security Council, for introducing the resolution was because the “main objective of this institution is to uphold international law. That is why we came to the Security Council, and that is why we will continue to come back to the Security Council.”

Rather than appear in person at the UN press stakeout to answer questions about the U.S. veto, Ambassador Rice scheduled a conference call with some reporters. Responding to a question why the Obama administration was willing to support a Security Council Presidential Statement condemning Israel’s settlements but not a Security Council resolution saying much the same thing, Rice said that the United States had supported what it thought was a more constructive 3-part alternative. She described the 3-part alternative as including a Russian proposal for a trip by the Security Council representatives to the region, “a very strong Presidential Statement from the Security Council which would have gone further than we have gone of late on the issue of settlements and other important issues,” and using the “upcoming Quartet [on the Middle East] statement for making some new and important statements on core issues including territory, as well as settlements.”

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  • Guest

    If AIPAC and all the other Jewish donors wouldn't have money anymore, the US politicians would do what is righteous and take just decisions.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Too bad you are too narrow-minded to connect the dots, as the same jihad that targets Israel also targets you and me and all unbelievers around the world.

    • dcfinfan

      Talks about a Palestinian State have been a charade since 1967. Neither the U.S. or Israel ever had any intention of allowing a Palestinian State. The lies that have been told are infinite. The duplicity is profound.

      And now, as the West Bank is largely made up of Jewish Settlements and Gaza is under siege, the U.S. and Israel still perform this evil charade. Both nations should be condemned by the whole of the world community. Boycotts should be directed at both of them, boycotts and divestments and sanctions.

      Obama should be thrown into jail for being the world's biggest liar and Assange should be released and given Obama's Nobel Peace Prize.

      Friends, the world is a madhouse. Black is now white and white is now black. How much longer are we going to allow the status quo to continue? How much longer are we going to allow the Evil Empire (the one run by the U.S.) to continue?

      Stand up for justice, for equality, for human rights for all the world's people while you still can!

      • ajnn

        my gosh, i think wer have struck 'chomsky'. you can tell by the anti-american fantasies about the us opposing peace.

        this omits that the us bankrolls with billions to egypt and jordan that peace tyreaty with israel.

      • NestorJames

        Fascinating!

    • ajnn

      I think Arab 'petrodollars', pouring billiuons into the US, USA govt, universities, etc are a distorting influence.

      jews are actual citizens of the unites states and have a constitutional right to participate in us government. it is a grassroots movement garnering support across party lines, across religious lines , etc.

      • MixMChess

        Right on ajnn! AIPAC is a 100,000+ member national grassroots organization. As an "independent, not-for-profit entity, AIPAC is funded entirely through contributions from its members." The funds raised by AIPAC is NOTHING compared to the Arab petrodollars raised by the Arab lobby (which spends tens of millions of dollars to promote hatred, antisemitism and xenophobia in America).

    • Claude

      To Bad You Are Asleep, but I promise you; you are going to wakeup, my hope is it will not be after you say OH SH-T, the righteous thing todo is to get educated beyond what you are told by the Media our current left wing educators. Your time of reckoning is fast approaching, get prepared while there is still a glimer of hope.

  • charles

    betraying israel? you mean betraying america. 1- the U.S vetoed against 14 nations. being ungrateful wont get you anywhere. 2- settlements are ILLEGAL by international law. 3- stopping the illegal settlements doesnt mean it encourages palestinians not to pursue peace talks with israel, it simply means STOP building on my occupied lands. palestinians openly says we want peace talk with israel, but not while its building on my lands. you cant talk peace and stab people in the back. the illegal settlements is like the stab in the back. besides, israel has alot of land the palestinians arent claiming theirs, so why not build on their israeli state?

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Wrong on all accounts! The truth is the so-called Palestinians, which were created in Moscow in 1964 by the Soviet KGB complete with ready-made prepackaged inalienable national rights to self-determination as a disinformation campaign to camouflage the Islamic world’s permanent and perpetual jihad being waged against the infidel state of Israel under the cloak of nationalism. The reality is the so-called Palestinians are the proxies of the Islamic world, and the jihad being waged against Israel is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually against Israel as long as Israel continues to exist and regardless of any and all peace processes meant to weaken Israel and to dupe useful idiots. Just like the greater global jihad at large, of which the jihad being waged perpetually against Israel is a smaller component, will also be waged perpetually as long as unbelievers continue to exist that haven’t been forced to submit to the authority of Islam.

      You really should try removing your ideological blinders and expanding your horizons. You’d really be surprised what you will find.

    • http://www.lethalengagement.com Joseph Klein

      As I pointed out in my article, the Palestinians and their enablers have rejected chances for a peaceful two state solution for more than 60 years, 20 of which Israel did not control the West Bank or Gaza. The Israeli settlements are not illegal under international law. The territories were won by Israel after it was attacked by its Arab neighbors (including by Jordan) in the Six-Day War. A state acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and control foreign territory and, before it withdraws, require the institution of effective security measures to ensure that the territory shall not again be used to mount a threat or use of force against it of such a nature as to justify exercise of self-defense. The rocket attacks launched from Gaza prove the folly of relying on the Palestinians' promises of security.

    • EVAbeliever

      Hey Charles: The only party to talk peace has been Israel. Abbas refuses to talk at all because he knows people like you who are ignorant of the history will work to pressure Israel into giving everything in return for nothing. These are not "settlements"; they are real cities with thousands of residents living in real homes. Israel has left Gaza and is witnessing what the Arabs call "peace": non-stop rocket attacks into Israel. Saeb Erekat has stated that there will NEVER be peace until ALL 7 million Arab refugees (A lot more than the 450k that were reported after 1948)have returned physically to their homes INSIDE the green lines. And Abbas has SWORN that not ONE Jew will be allowed to live in a future Arab State. How do you explain that as being Israel's fault? Only if you have blinders on.

    • ziontruth

      "betraying israel? you mean betraying america."

      America should do whatever it wishes with its own money, but telling a sovereign state where to build on its own territory is overreach.

      "settlements are ILLEGAL by international law."

      Agreed. The Arabs should stop building settlements in Palestine, the indigenous territory of the Jews, the one and only true Palestinian nation.

    • ajnn

      1. international law is a little bit more complicatedf than we are being told. the settlements are not violating any international law or laws.

      2. the palestinian arabs say they want peace, but only in english. in arabic it is 'schrad al yahud' (kill the jews) 24/7.

    • stern

      maybe instead of demonstrating your ignorance here, you should consult a map of the middle east. See if you can find Israel among all the Arab states and then review your claim that "Israel has a lot of land". Idiot.

    • Claude

      Another OH Sh-T person, man you can not see the trees for the forest, how can it ever be the Pals Land they did not exist then nor do they now, Just because I call myself a Jew does not make me one, the same goes for the PLO, AraFat, was not even a Palistinian by any strectch of your imagination, an Arab yes, Palistinian no.

    • Henach

      Jewish communities in the historical Jewish homeland of Judea and Samaria, and Jerusalem itself, are as legal as any communities anywhere. They are even explicitly called for by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, giving international legal rights to Jewish settlement in the Jewish homeland. And the UN charter explicitly supports rights that existed before the UN was founded. Check the writings of Eugene V. Rostow, an authority on international law.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Lebanon’s ambassador, Nawaf Salam, told reporters that his country’s main reason, as a current member of the Security Council, for introducing the resolution was because the “main objective of this institution is to uphold international law. That is why we came to the Security Council, and that is why we will continue to come back to the Security Council.”

    Utterly absurd! Muhammadans view international law and, as a matter of fact, all manmade laws as abominations, as they only recognize and adhere to Sharia, which according to Islam is the divine will of Allah. Thus, the good ambassador is obviously using the Security Council’s ignorance of Islam to dupe useful idiots with respect to his true motives for introducing the resolution. Nevertheless, his true motivation is to harm and weaken Israel and to naturally incite more hatred and violence against them.

    In other words, although Lebanon took the lead at the Security Council in accusing Israel of building settlements in violation of international law, it was ducking accountability for enabling the terrorist group Hezbollah to unlawfully rearm itself with rockets aimed at Israel’s civilian population in violation of the UN Security Council Resolution 1701 that had ended the 2006 conflict between Israel and Hezbollah.

    Proof positive that Muhammadans don’t recognize and adhere to international law or any other manmade law, for that matter. Nevertheless, it doesn’t preclude them from using international laws to their advantage when feasible.

    The truth is that Israeli settlements are but one of a number of issues that must be resolved before there can be a truly lasting, peaceful settlement.

    Nah…the real truth is the jihad being waged against Israel is permanent and will continue to be waged perpetually no matter what and regardless of any and all fake peace processes used to weaken Israel and to dupe useful idiots, as long as Israel continues to exist. Just like the greater global jihad at large, of which the jihad being waged perpetually against Israel is a smaller component, will also continue to be waged perpetually against all unbelievers as long as unbelievers continue to exist that haven’t been forced to submit to the authority of Islam.

    Israel’s 30 year peace treaty with Egypt (now itself in jeopardy) proves the risks that Israel is willing to take to secure real peace.

    With respect to Israel’s peace treaty with the dictators of Egypt, it demonstrates the reason why Israel should never make the mistake of trading land for fleeting and ephemeral peace ever again.

  • Pierce

    Ambassador Rice, hell. She is only doing what Barack Hussein Obama bades her to do, or say. She takes the heat directly, but he is truly anti-zionist. The United States of America has for decades in pro Israel until now.

  • muchiboy

    "Israeli settlements to be “illegal.”"

    Of course they're illegal.And immoral,to boot.And America knows this,but chooses for diplomatic reasons not to call a spade a spade.And Israel and her Jewish and Christian Right supporters can't seem to appreciate such political correctness and niceties on the part of the Obama and American Administrations.I cannot think of any country nor supporters who are bigger whiners then Israel.Just cut the whining or cut the apron strings.muchiboy

    • ziontruth

      Reliable as ever, the camel has come back to drop its droppings in an Israel-related thread. (Not that it requires a thread to be related to Israel for Mufti's Boy to bring in his hobbyhorse…)

      "And America knows this,but chooses for diplomatic reasons not to call a spade a spade." (emph. added)

      Racist. Just joking. :-)

      "I cannot think of any country nor supporters who are bigger whiners then Israel"

      I cannot think of any other country that gets told where and how much to build on its own soil.

    • ajnn

      muchiboy chimes in with his 'israel is immoral' repeats.

      muchiboy posts on this site regularly and always in critisism, often racist, of israel. this one is not racist merely mistaken.

      international law is more complex than we are being told. the settlements are not in violation of any international law or laws. they may be good or bad policy, moral or immoral, but they are not 'illegal'.

    • MixMChess

      The settlements are not illegal, see my other comments.

  • muchiboy

    "Israeli settlements to be “illegal.”"

    Of course they're illegal.And immoral,to boot.And America knows this,but chooses for diplomatic reasons not to call a spade a spade.And Israel and her Jewish and Christian Right supporters can't seem to appreciate such political correctness and niceties on the part of the Obama and American Administrations.I cannot think of any country nor supporters who are bigger whiners then Israel.Just cut the whining or cut the apron strings.muchiboy

    • ajnn

      muchiboy chimes in with his 'israel is immoral' repeats.

      muchiboy posts on this site regularly and always in critisism, often racist, of israel. this one is not racist merely mistaken.

      international law is more complex than we are being told. the settlements are not in violation of any international law or laws. they may be good or bad policy, moral or immoral, but they are not 'illegal'.

    • penni

      Hey Muchiboy, You are a boy with no historical education! Israel is NOT BUILDING SETTLEMENTS.You or no one builds Settlements in a city! Have you ever herd of homework!! Look up the word Settlement!! Get your biased hate out of you and learn something. You can't drink the coolaid from Socialist, Marxist Obama all the time. With your hate how do you learn?? I guess you can't!

    • MixMChess

      It looks like muchiboy is pretending to understand international law again. The settlements are NOT illegal.

      First of all, the so-called settlements make up less than 2% of the entire W. Bank area. Over 85% of the settlements are suburbs or municipalities of major ISRAELI cities (such as Jerusalem) that border the W. Bank.

      Second, Jews have continuously lived in Judea and Samaria (W. Bank) since ancient times. Note, that up until 1947, E. Jerusalem was almost exclusively Jewish and was the location of important Jewish institutions such as the City of David, the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Additionally, major Jewish institutions like Hebrew University and the original Hadassah Hospital are all located in eastern Jerusalem. In fact, the only time Jews have been prohibited from living in the territories in recent decades was during Jordan's rule from 1948 to 1967 when the ethnically cleansed the indigenous Jewish population.

      Third, numerous legal authorities dispute the charge that settlements are “illegal.” Stephen Schwebel, formerly President of the International Court of Justice, notes that "a country acting in self-defense may seize and occupy territory when necessary to protect itself." Territory can be acquired as a "security measure" to prevent further attacks and menaces from the foreign territory.

      Fourth, according to Eugene Rostow, a former Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs in the Johnson Administration, Resolution 242 gives Israel a legal right to be in the West Bank. The resolution, “allows Israel to administer the territories it won in 1967 until a just and lasting peace in the Middle East is achieved.”

      Fifth, Israel has already agreed to exchange some of the W. Bank settlements for territory inside Israel as a way to equalize the land swaps.

  • jacob

    Ambassador Rice may have all the Phd's and credits in ythe world but to me, she
    is just another con secrated reputation and conceited nullties of which this jungle
    this world turned into is full of, not counting how damaging they are…

    I fully side with OBAMA YoMOMMA statements and it is a shame ISRAEL fell asleep
    in its laurels after thew Six Days War and even after being almost anihilated at the
    YOM KIPPUR war and didn't take advantage of the results…

    Of course, being tied to His Master's Voice is a curse by itself, as American
    politicians, specially on interrnational politics, are so smart, so shrewd, it is next
    to impossible to tell where does the sage ends and the damned fool begins….

  • rbla

    Chucky Schumer, Gerry Nadler and Tony Wiener probably went whining to Obama that he was in danger of losing the Jewish money that always goes to the Democrats. Therefore Obama tried to cover up his true policy with the veto while nodding and winking to the Muslims and their lackeys. Will American Jews be fooled again? Probably.

  • JosephWiess

    We should be supporting Israel and stop sending aid to the other countries in that region. At least Israel is democratic and supports freedom for all people.

  • Cynic

    ObamaYoMama
    February 22, 2011 at 6:54 am

    You should have added that Russia joined 57 nations making up the Organisation of Islamic Council (OIC) just to show where their heart truly is.

  • Canadian reader

    Arabs lose respect for the US, when its government publically criticizes an ally, in this case, Israel. Criticizing an ally, justifiably or not, if done in public, is a dishonorable act. This only incites the contempt of the Arabs, who the US government is foolishly trying to appease. Other US allies must also be wondering when it will be their turn to be thrown under the bus, so to speak.

  • stern

    All those who claim the settlements are “illegal”, please see http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Facts/islegal1.shtml

  • stern

    All those – especially muchiboy – who claim that the settlements are "illegal", please see http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Facts/islegal1.shtml

    • MixMChess

      Great article.

  • Canadian reader

    “Illegal settlements” and “occupied lands” are simply propaganda terms, used to deceive westerners who value quasi-legalistic arguments. These towns and villages are facts, and the sooner the Arabs accept this, the sooner they can let go of their jealousy and anger. Also, why use the propaganda name WEST BANK? instead call this area by its historical names, JUDEA AND SAMARIA.

    • Claude

      Canadian, that will never happen, when one is trying to be PC, and the ARABS will never let those words cross their lips, that would nullify their claim to the land. As always history has to be nullified in order to fool the rest of the people, and they are well versed in this tactic, that is the way they have been opperating for the last 700 years.

  • Andres de Alamaya

    Don't blame Rice. She's just another puppet in the puppet theater of the African Muslim in the White House.

  • WilliamJamesWard

    Shame on all fourteen and shame on Rice, shame on Obama and anyone
    that is so untruthful as to pander the Palestinian lies, a pox on their house.
    Mulchiboy, just think you grow in stature with a pox…………enjoy it, you are
    still fun and by the way you could work for the 12th Imam when he is out
    of his well, or is it possible you are neighbors, enquiring minds want to know…………………….William

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Hey Muchiboy:

    It’s kind of interesting that the very people that have repeatedly ganged up together to attempt to conquer Israel for conquest and at the same time perpetrate a mass genocidal holocaust of Jews claims that the settlements are illegal according to international law, at the same time that prosecuting offensive wars for the purpose of conquest on a repeated basis is also illegal according to international law, since according to international law it automatically makes such wars illegal wars of aggression.

    Which is also why, by the way, the “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” clause was included in UNSCR 242, not to admonish and warn Israel, but instead to advise the Islamic countries involved in repeatedly trying to conquer Israel ~ that the acquisition of territory by war is not only inadmissible, but it is also 100 percent illegal according to International law.

    The reality is the “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” clause doesn’t pertain to Israel or to the territory Israel acquired as a result of being the victim of illegal wars of aggression, not only in 1967 but also in 1948-49 too, since Israel never repeatedly attempted to conquer its neighbors and to drive their citizens into the sea.

    Indeed, if the territory Israel acquired in 1967 is somehow illegal according to international law, then it also means the territory that Israel acquired as a result of the 1948-49 war was also illegal. However, nobody makes that absurd claim with respect to the 1948-49 war because Israel clearly was the victim of an illegal war of aggression when 7 Islamic countries ganged up together to attempt to conquer Israel, just like they attempted to do again when 4 Islamic countries ganged up together and tried to conquer Israel in 1967 too.

    Hence, the territory Israel acquired in 1967 is legal according to international law because again Israel was the victim of an illegal war of aggression. Just like it also was the victim of an illegal war of aggression in 1948-49. As anytime wars are prosecuted for the express purpose of conquest, it automatically makes such wars illegal wars of aggression according to international law.

    Therefore, the so-called occupation isn’t an occupation, as it is impossible to occupy territory you already own. Meaning also that the settlements aren’t illegal, since Israel has a perfectly legitimate right to build settlements on land it owns.

    Also, the Islamic world loves to cite the 4th Geneva Convention as being another reason the settlements are illegal to dupe useful idiots like you. However, the 4th Geneva Convention concerns only the forcible transfer of populations, while the citizens of Israel that live in the settlements are living there according to their own free wills.

    The truth of the matter is all Muhammadans reject international laws, not to mention also any and all manmade laws as well, since they view them as abominations. However, they are not beyond accusing their enemies of violating international laws that they themselves don’t even recognize or adhere to in order to dupe gullible useful idiots like you when it is to their advantage.

    Hence, it is kind of interesting and very revealing to say the least that you would arbitrarily accept the words at face value of deceptive Muhammadans that totally reject international laws when they falsely accuse Israel of violating international laws that they themselves view as abominations.

    Islam is a dualistic system relative to our unitary system. It divides the world between the believers and the unbelievers and then employs one set of rules and ethics for believers and another completely different set of rules and ethics for unbelievers. Our unitary system, in stark contrast, applies the same set of rules and ethics for everyone regardless of race, color, creed, gender, or nationality.

    Maybe if you weren’t so totally consumed and obsessed with inciting hatred and violence against Israel in order to help facilitate another genocidal holocaust of Jews, you would notice some of the glaring inconsistencies with respect to the deceptive terrorists you sympathize with that are also waging jihad not only against Israel, but also the entire unbeliever world as well, which, by the way, just so happens to also include you. Indeed, you are the personification of a useful idiot.

  • Taim

    America is not against Israeli settlements and supports the continued oppression of Palestinian people as demostrated by teh vetoing of the UN resolution against settlement.

    America is partner in crime and, with Israel, rejecting two state settlement.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      Obama is against Israeli settlements. However, in stark contrast, the overwhelming majority of Americans fully support Israel and their settlements. They also realize, by the way, that to the extent that Israel supposedly oppresses the so-called Palestinian people, which were created out of whole cloth in Moscow in 1964 by the Soviet KGB complete with ready-made prepackaged inalienable and legitimate national rights to self-determination as a disinformation campaign to camouflage the Islamic world’s permanent and perpetual jihad against Israel under a cloak of nationalism to dupe gullible useful idiots like you, that oppression is a byproduct of the measures Israel is forced to implement in self-defense to protect its citizens from the relentless permanent and perpetual jihad the Islamic world is waging against Israel via their proxies which are the so-called Palestinians.

      If siding on the side of pluralistic democracies and the rule of law as opposed to the rule of Sharia against 7th century barbarians who neither recognize international laws, international borders, and the sovereignty of nations is somehow a crime in your unhinged mind, then color the USA as proudly guilty.

      Finally, I hate to rain on your jaw dropping naïve parade, but the so-called two state solution is a concocted pretext, as the jihad being waged against Israel is permanent and will continue to be waged against Israel perpetually no matter what and regardless of any and all so-called peace processes used to weaken Israel and to dupe gullible useful idiots like you, as long as Israel continues to exist. Just like the greater global jihad at large, of which the perpetual jihad being waged against Israel is a smaller component, will also continue to be waged against unbelievers perpetually as long as unbelievers continue to exist in the world that haven’t been forced to submit to the authority of Islam.

      Indeed, as I often say ad nauseum, show me a Jew hater and Israel basher and I’ll show you someone completely oblivious of Islam and the global jihad Islam is waging against all unbelievers around the world. Likewise show me someone completely oblivious of Islam and the global jihad Islam is waging against all unbelievers around the world, and I’ll show you a Jew hater and Israel basher. Thanks for proving my theorem correct again.

    • ziontruth

      The Jews are the one and only true Palestinian people. Falsely-called "Palestinians" are Arabs. The Jews are indigenous to Palestine and cannot be settlers anywhere in it. The Arabs are indigenous to Arabia and are settlers in Palestine.

      For the sake of a just and viable peace, all Arab settlers must evacuate the lands they have stolen in Palestine from the indigenous Palestinians, the Jews. The continued oppression of the Palestinian people, the Jews, cannot stand.

  • muchiboy

    "muchiboy posts on this site regularly and always in critisism"

    Sure,guilty as charged,ajnn.Like Rhodesia ,there must be many qualities and aspects of Israel that are worthy and a credit to her Jewish founders and people.And like Rhodesia,there is much to lose from internal/external forces.You and ziontruth love Israel,I loved Rhodesia.I'm sure a visit to Israel would prove the worthiness of the country and people,as when I first lived in Rhodesia.But there is the other side that you ignore at your and our,peril and penance..In the case of white minority ruled Rhodesia,it was the African minority,the inequalities and daily humiliations.In the case of Israel,it remains the unfairness of it all,that the existence of Israel is predicated on the extinction of Palestinian nationhood and the effective and de facto ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and the denial of their children's and descendent's birth rights.
    It is wrong to enjoy long denied or expected rights by denying the rights of another (people).With understanding,empathy and respect.muchiboy

    • ziontruth

      "…the existence of Israel is predicated on the extinction of Palestinian nationhood…"

      Can't be predicated on the extinction of what is a fabrication; a fabrication which is itself predicated on the extinction of Jewish nationhood (God forbid), therefore a blatant example of projection. The faux-Palestinian narrative has its entire being in the anti-Zionist struggle, the struggle to deny the Jews their birthright, their right to exclusive sovereignty in Palestine by virtue of being the indigenes of the land. If, heaven forfend, Israel were to disappear, so would the Arab "Palestinian nation," having served its purpose and ready to be jettisoned like a spent stage of a space rocket.

    • MixMChess

      ".In the case of Israel,it remains the unfairness of it all,that the existence of Israel is predicated on the extinction of Palestinian nationhood and the effective and de facto ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and the denial of their children's and descendent's birth rights."

      Nonsense, Israel was predicated solely on the basis that Jews have a right to self-determination on their historical and legal homeland of Israel. Of course, you ignore the basic history of early Zionism.

      The early Zionists and the state of Israel always accepted compromise proposals that envisioned the Palestinians and the Jews dividing the land between them:

      -Israel accepted Britain's Peel Commission partition plan in 1937 that would have set up a small Jewish state alongside a larger Palestinian state.

      -Israel accepted the United Nations Partition Plan in 1947 (Resolution 181) that would have divided Palestine into a Jewish state alongside a Palestinian state.

      -Israel tried to set up Palestinian self-government and autonomy in the Territories between 1967 and 1969.

      -Israel offered the Palestinians autonomy in the Camp David Accords of 1979 as part f its peace plan with Egypt (part of the "Attached Letters" to the agreement from 1979).

      -Israel offered the Palestinians autonomy and independence in the Oslo Accords of 1993

      -Israel offered the Palestinians autonomy and independence at the Camp David and Taba negotiations in 2000 and 2001. In fact, in 2001 Israel offered to share its capital, Jerusalem, with the Palestinians and to remove most of the Jewish communities in the West Bank.

      -In 2005 Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and subsequently offered to withdraw from parts of the W. Bank and exchange Israeli lands with the Palestinians.

      Israel is constantly trying to give the Palestinian people their own nation… unfortunately the Palestinians would rather murder Jews than accept independence.

  • muchiboy

    "muchiboy posts on this site regularly and always in critisism"

    Sure,guilty as charged,ajnn.Like Rhodesia ,there must be many qualities and aspects of Israel that are worthy and a credit to her Jewish founders and people.And like Rhodesia,there is much to lose from internal/external forces.You and ziontruth love Israel,I loved Rhodesia.I'm sure a visit to Israel would prove the worthiness of the country and people,as when I first lived in Rhodesia.But there is the other side that you ignore at your and our,peril and penance..In the case of white minority ruled Rhodesia,it was the African minority,the inequalities and daily humiliations.In the case of Israel,it remains the unfairness of it all,that the existence of Israel is predicated on the extinction of Palestinian nationhood and the effective and de facto ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people and the denial of their children's and descendent's birth rights.
    It is wrong to enjoy long denied or expected rights by denying the rights of another (people).With understanding,empathy and respect.muchiboy

  • muchiboy

    "If, heaven forfend, Israel were to disappear, so would the Arab "Palestinian nation," having served its purpose and ready to be jettisoned like a spent stage of a space rocket. "

    Surely there must be a fair and just solution that would halfway satisfy both parties.To date,the Palestinian people have incurred,undeservedly and by far,the most significant losses,qualitatively and quantitatively.It is about time,in fact,long over due,that Israeli's make the moral and more practical sacrifices,equivalent to those of the Palestinians,to bring about a just and lasting resolution to this tragic play of history.It really would be a shame and additional tragedy if the blessing that is Israel were lost through hatred and the failure to recognize what is beneficial to both peoples and the region.muchiboy

    • ziontruth

      Nice missing my whole point, Moosh.

      I don't think I'm going to make things any better, but here goes: The point was, the non-Jewish "Palestinian" nation isn't real; it's just a ruse, a propaganda device, in the unjust struggle of the Arab nation, possessor of over a score of states on a huge mass of land, to dispossess the Jewish nation of their one tiny state. Such a struggle being patently unjust, the non-Jewish "Palestinian" nation was invented in order to overcome that marketing problem and invert the reality of David (really the Jews and their tiny state) and Goliath (really the Arabs and their huge possessions).

      If the Arabs were to win that struggle, the "Palestinian" nation would be spoken of no more. In fact, nobody (and that includes the Marxists too) gave a rat's derriere about the "Palestinians" (actually, Arabs of immediate Palestinian origin) in Jordan (1970), Kuwait or Lebanon (Naher Al Bared) on those occasions when their oppressors happened to be not Zionists. Thus much the world truly cares about these tools of grievance preservation.

  • muchiboy

    "If, heaven forfend, Israel were to disappear, so would the Arab "Palestinian nation," having served its purpose and ready to be jettisoned like a spent stage of a space rocket. "

    Surely there must be a fair and just solution that would halfway satisfy both parties.To date,the Palestinian people have incurred,undeservedly and by far,the most significant losses,qualitatively and quantitatively.It is about time,in fact,long over due,that Israeli's make the moral and more practical sacrifices,equivalent to those of the Palestinians,to bring about a just and lasting resolution to this tragic play of history.It really would be a shame and additional tragedy if the blessing that is Israel were lost through hatred and the failure to recognize what is beneficial to both peoples and the region.muchiboy

    • USMCSniper

      Now listen and learn despite your intellectuak limitations and anti conseptual nature. Israel and those who attack it are not moral equals. Israel is, like the United States, a "mixed economy," which retains a significant respect for individual rights. Its citizens, whatever their race or religion including Arab Muslims, enjoy many freedoms, including freedom of thought and speech, and the right to own property. The purpose of Israel's military is only self-defense: to protect its citizens from aggressors. Consequently, Israel has a moral right to exist. Those attacking Israel, by contrast, are proxy terrorist organizations, dictatorships and Islamic theocracies, which deliberately violate the rights of their own subjects. Even if these organizations and regimes had never initiated force directly against Israel and only supported or funded those who do, they still would have no moral right to exist.

    • MixMChess

      "To date,the Palestinian people have incurred,undeservedly and by far,the most significant losses,qualitatively and quantitatively."

      Wrong, Arabs illegally possess over 85% of the Jewish National Homeland and are trying to steal more every day.

      "It is about time,in fact,long over due,that Israeli's make the moral and more practical sacrifices,equivalent to those of the Palestinians,to bring about a just and lasting resolution to this tragic play of history."

      Israel has been making the necessary sacrifices since its inception. Israel has offered the Palestinians peace on countless occasions: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1979, 1982, 1988, 1993, 2000, 2005… Israel provides millions of tons of aid to Gazans and sends hundreds of millions of dollars to the W. Bank to build the Palestinian economy. What sacrifices have the Palestinians made besides stealing land and resources from Jews?

      "It really would be a shame and additional tragedy if the blessing that is Israel were lost through hatred and the failure to recognize what is beneficial to both peoples and the region."

      Talking out of both sides of your mouth again eh Ron Grant? You constantly call for the destruction of Israel and now suddenly its a blessing? Get bent!

  • muchiboy

    "In fact, nobody (and that includes the Marxists too) gave a rat's derriere about the "Palestinians""

    Including ziontruth,the Diaspora and Israeli's generally.Me,I give a rats ass,ziontruth.

    "The point was, the non-Jewish "Palestinian" nation isn't real; it's just a ruse, a propaganda device,"

    Of course it is real,ziontruth.The Zionists,the Diaspora and the decades of imposed injustices,miseries and daily humiliations have made it so,ironically and paradoxically.Decades of suffering,refugee camps and war can weld a people into a nation.You of all people should know that.The Diaspora has endured centuries of similar hardships.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "Including ziontruth,the Diaspora and Israeli's generally.Me,I give a rats ass,ziontruth."

      Nonsense, why else has Israel offered the Palestinians statehood (only to be rejected) on countless occasions? What about the hundreds of millions Israel spent to allow the W. Bank economy to grow by over 8% in 2009 alone? What about the millions in humanitarian aid that Israel delivers to Gazans 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year?

      Me? Unlike Israel, I don't give a rat's ass about the Palestinians. How can one really care for a "fabricated" people?

    • ziontruth

      "Including ziontruth,the Diaspora and Israeli's generally."

      It is not for us Jews to care about our enemies. But those who champion the Phakestinian cause should care about every instance of it. Instead, they care only about those instances where Israel is involved. If it's Kuwait bringing the sledgehammer on them, then it's all crickets chirping.

      "Me,I give a rats ass,ziontruth. "

      You didn't when it happened. It's "all Israel, all the time" with you. Not a word about Kuwait or Naher Al Bared.

      "Of course it is real,ziontruth.The Zionists,the Diaspora and the decades of imposed injustices,miseries and daily humiliations have made it so … Decades of suffering,refugee camps and war can weld a people into a nation."

      No. Negative facts do not a nation make. A nation needs positive facts like a true history or a distinctive culture or language or any combo of those. The Arab settler-colonists in Palestine have none of those, nor have they gone any step in the way of acquiring those, for they prefer to spend their time setting up terrorist training camps where their kids are taught to blow themselves up.

      "You of all people should know that.The Diaspora has endured centuries of similar hardships."

      The hardships of the diaspora aren't what made the Jews a nation. It is our religion, history, culture and language that make us a nation, not the suffering at the hands of others. Those are the things that make a real nation, and their absence is the mark of the fake.

  • muchiboy

    "Israel is, like the United States, a "mixed economy," which retains a significant respect for individual rights. Its citizens,"

    Of course,the US has never ethnically cleansed the first nations peoples from the national borders of America.Today,all first nations peoples are American citizens.Unlike Israel,there are no 1st nations peoples nor any of their descendents that are denied American citizenship.Unlike Israel.So do not compare yourself to the USA.You are a Zionist state,with all the moral baggage that comes with it.Again,I do not argue with the positive attributes of Israeli society,and admittedly there are many.My argument is with the grave human rights abuses and crimes against Humanity and the Palestinian people.Your arguments are fatally flawed as they conveniently and purposely ignore the Palestinians denied their homeland and birth rights by Jews.Adequately address these issues and then,and only then,can Israel lay claim to a human rights respecting,liberal democracy.Until then,you are the moral equivalent of Iran,Syria and the other human rights abusing regimes in the region.Likely change will not come from within,but without.I believe Jews have lost their moral compass when it comes to self criticism.Pity.muchiboy

    • MixMChess

      "Of course,the US has never ethnically cleansed the first nations peoples from the national borders of America."

      You're an idiot Ronald Grant (no wonder you are a lowly corrections officer). Geeze, try opening a book and reading about the Native Americans. Heck, I'll make it easy for you, just rent "Dances with Wolves."

      "Unlike Israel,there are no 1st nations peoples nor any of their descendents that are denied American citizenship."

      I love how Ron Grant likes to profess knowledge on concepts that he knows absolutely nothing about. Do you even know or understand how Israel's right of return (for Jews) works? Jews are merely given the right to immigrate to Israel, they still have to apply for citizenship just like everyone else.

      The only first nation people of Israel are Jews. The Palestinians are first nation people of the Arab countries from which they originated: Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria… etc. Of course, Israel has always generously allowed Arabs to live in Israel – over 20% of the population is now Arab.

      Besides, Arabs already illegally possess over 85% of the Jewish National Homeland. The Palestinians have Gaza and the W. Bank and now you want them to steal more land?

    • MixMChess

      "Unlike Israel.So do not compare yourself to the USA.You are a Zionist state,with all the moral baggage that comes with it."

      Zionist is not a dirty word muchiboy (aka Ronald Grant), and there is no moral baggage that comes with being a Zionist or Pro-Israel. Israel has provided relief efforts for hundreds of thousands worldwide. Israel has offered the Palestinians peace on countless occasions. Israel has single-handedly provided the economic and financial aid to Palestinians in the W. Bank enabling the economy to increase by over 8% in 2009 alone. Israel provides one ton of humanitarian aid per Gaza resident.

      Want to talk about moral baggage? Look no further than the disgusting Palestinians who glorify murder, rape, torture and terrorism.

    • ziontruth

      "Of course,the US has never ethnically cleansed the first nations peoples from the national borders of America."

      Ladies and gentlemen, here's Muchiboy's knowledge of history on display. Here's everything you need to know in your assessment as to whether to take him seriously.

      "Unlike Israel,there are no 1st nations peoples nor any of their descendents that are denied American citizenship."

      That's because we Jews are the first nation here, Moosh. No matter how much you deny it. We're the indigenous here, while the Arabs are the settlers.

      "You are a Zionist state,with all the moral baggage that comes with it."

      Thank God.

      "Until then,you are the moral equivalent of Iran,Syria and the other human rights abusing regimes in the region."

      We are? But, if that's true, then you ought to be standing with us! I mean, you like those regimes, don't you? At least in the sense that you've never voiced any significant criticism of them. And you see eye to eye in their stated goal of eliminating the Jewish State (God forbid).

  • muchiboy

    " And you see eye to eye in their stated goal of eliminating the Jewish State (God forbid). "

    While I wouldn't shed a tear if the Zionist state ceased to exist tomorrow,ziontruth,I have to admit that the loss would be felt in the region,and perhaps to its future detriment.On the one hand you have all the positive attributes of a modern,mostly, if not qualified, democratic state.On the other hand,you have the tragedy of the Palestinian people.The two are inextricably mixed.Certainly the Israeli state can be a force for good in the region but only if the tragedy of the Palestinians is resolved to their satisfaction.I suspect the Palestinians,who have lost so much more,would be more willing to accept the Israelis' as equal partners then vice versa.That says a lot about both peoples and their respective magnanimity. muchiboy