Saudi Arabia: The Next Capital of Islamic Feminism?


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In the midst of a Middle East meltdown, in the midst of the most dangerous mayhem and madness, can a feminist and human rights revolution really be brewing in…Saudi Arabia? We know that Saudi Arabia is exceptionally barbaric towards its women and to all progressive thought. Women are not allowed to drive, and they cannot travel, accept employment, or open a bank account without the approval of a male relative. In addition, Saudi women must be fully veiled from head to toe and from front to back, and they must submit to arranged child marriage and to polygamy.

Sharia law rules. Thus, adultery, choosing a husband of one’s own, or refusing to marry, might be privately punished by solitary confinement, beatings, or being honor murdered. Adultery or failure to veil might lead to execution by the religious police or by the state.

Given the extraordinary and fast-paced events taking place in the Middle East, the Saudi King just promised some concessions. They are only economic concessions: He has offered to share more of his bounty with his people in terms of pay raises, affordable family housing, and unemployment benefits. In short, he is offering his long-suffering people a 37 billion dollar bribe.

Why has he done so? What does King Abdullah fear? A number of things: First, a possible Shi’ite takeover of the region.

About 40 years after Mohammed’s death, a huge religious war, a violent split, took place between what are now the two main branches of Islam: Sunni and Shi’a.

The Islamic Republic of Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq, and Bahrain are the only Muslim countries with a Shi’ite majority; the more than 50 other Muslim countries (except for Oman, which is Ibadi) have Sunni majorities.

Syria is ruled by a Shi’ite family but has a Sunni majority, and southern Lebanon and eastern Saudi Arabia have Shi’ite majorities.

The protestors in Bahrain are mostly members of its Shi’ite majority, who “demand more say in the Sunni-ruled island. Riyadh would be worried if unrest in Bahrain, where seven people were killed and hundreds wounded last week, spread to its own disgruntled Shi’ite minority in the oil-rich east.”

What else might King Abdullah fear?  His people chanting: “Down with the Dictator” and calling for his exile or his death.

But, believe it or not, King Abdullah might actually have an honest-to-goodness homegrown reformation-revolution on his hands, one that is not Islamist, and one that is not only seeking economic rights. Saudis have begun to demand political, human, and women’s rights as well.

Egyptian, Libyan, and Bahraini protestors have not been calling for the kinds of rights that the Facebook website Saudi Women Revolution (which I have previously written about here and here) are demanding. Apparently, another Saudi group which calls itself “Saudi Youth for Justice” is demanding additional legal and political rights. Two days ago, I received an email which reads:

“We (The youth of the Saudi Arabia) hope this letter finds its way to the public. We are going to protest and carry on demonstrations like our brothers in Egypt, Libya, Bahrain and Tunisia. We are demanding political and economical reform. Our first priority is to fight corruption and to transfer the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy and commonwealth realm. We have no intention of causing trouble in the region or any kind of economic damage to any nation or country. If the Saudi government tries to stop us by using force we might wind up in civil war which will lead to high gas prices. We don’t want this to happen. Please spread our letter to the world, and urge all the world’s governments and especially the Saudi government to let us protest and carry on political reform peacefully. We are responsible people.”

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  • Abdullah

    "they must submit to arranged child marriage"

    Forcing women to marry is against Islamic law. Such marriages can be brought before a Saudi judge and anulled. I suggest you do some research before you publish such misinformation. Or is this some Protocol of Zion deliberate misinformation program?

    • Chezwick_Mac

      Nonsense. Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9. This is documented in the Hadith of Bukari. Since Muhammad is the exemplar for all mankind, pedophilia is forever incorporated into Islamic law and ethics.

      • Saleem

        What about Mary, Jesus' Mother peace be upon both of them? How old was she when she got pregnant?

        Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETROTHED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".

        "….it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age…."

        According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."

        According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.

        So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.

        Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary! Was he too a pedophile?

        • Saleem

          Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:

          "When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place."

          Christian writing including apocryphal writings.

          The Catholic Encyclopaedia goes on to conclude "…retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God." If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting "Mother of God" (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why do they raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?

          • Saleem

            Did they know the Marriage Age in Judaism?

            They should also focus on the stipulations of the Jewish religion which allowed marrying a girl of three years and one day old!!

            The Old Testament narrated the story of the marriage of Ishaq Bin Ibrahim – Peace be upon them – from Refka while she was just three years old. The Genesis mentioned that Ishaq was born while Sara was ninety years old. Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" (Genesis 17:17). Refqa was born in the same year in which Sara died: "Bethuel became the father of Rebekah. Milcah bore these eight sons to Abraham's brother Nahor. His concubine". In the next chapter thereof, the first paragraph, it is mentioned that: "Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty-seven years old" i.e. Ishaq then was thirty seven years old, and Refka was just a baby. When he attained forty years old and she attained three years, Ishaq has married her. Refer to: "And Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean". (Genesis 25:20). Talmud itself allowed making such marriage relation although the girl was just a child, as stipulated in the following teachings:

            The 55th Commandment of Sanhedrin stated: "A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition".

            The 54th Commandment of Talmud Sanhedrin stated: "Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that".

            The 11th Commandment of Talmud Khathoboth mentioned: "The sexual intercourse between an adult man and a young girl is something ordinary".

            Moreover, Saeed Rabi Joseph wrote: "The girl who attains three years and one day can make sexual intercourse" .

            Therefore, in Judaism, it is not a strange issue to make a sexual relationship with a girl of three years, so why they criticized Prophet Muhammad – Peace be upon him – for marrying a nine year old girl.

          • Saleem

            Hypocrisy of Jews & Christians

            It is quite hypocritical of Jews and Christian to criticize the marriage of Aisha. Talmud (Jewish scripture) says:

            "Marrying off one's daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one's Slave. (From the Talmud, Pesachim 113a)"

            As we discussed, in biblical times adulthood could refer to the age of Puberty or even younger age.

            Regarding the Marriage of Mary to Joseph, Catholic Encyclopaedia ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), says:

            "When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother"). A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age, Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place."

            Note: That article on Catholic Encyclopaedia obtains its information from early

            Christian writing including apocryphal writings.

            The Catholic Encyclopaedia goes on to conclude "…retained the belief that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the Mother of God." If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting "Mother of God" (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why do they raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?

          • Saleem

            The Age of Consent in Most Countries Worldwide!

            Apart from the European traditions in the medieval ages, if we look at the current era i.e. after 14 centuries from the marriage of the Prophet – Peace be upon him – from Aisha – May Allah be pleased with her – we will find that the age of consent is still early in various places. AVERT, an international Charity Organization interested in studying the HIV/ AIDS diseases, having its headquarters in the United Kingdom, and works hard for preventing this disease in all countries worldwide, mentioned a detailed table in its website about the age of consent worldwide i.e. the legal age of practicing the sexual intercourse worldwide or the age which is considered by the countries and governments acceptable for making a sexual relation.

            AVERT stated that the Japanese people can practice sex legally in the age of thirteen year. In Argentine, it is allowed to practice sex in the age of thirteen. In Canada, until 1890, the allowed age of consent was twelve years (6). Similarly, the age of consent in Mexico is twelve years. In Panama and Philippine, the age of consent is twelve years. In Spain (7), Cyprus (8), South Korea, the age of consent is thirteen, while in Bolivia, the sexual age of consent is the maturity age (9).
            http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

            If this is the case in the 21st century, why they deny it?

            All such cases took place after 14 centuries from the marriage of Prophet Muhammad – Peace be upon him – and Aisha! You can also note that such countries which have several cultural backgrounds allowed practicing sex in early age; so, why some persons refuse respecting the traditions of a nation lived before 14 centuries? It is not possible or logical to force other nations to follow the Western or the American thinking concerning what is accepted or rejected! Especially before 14 centuries. According to the said table in the website of AVERT Organization, the legal consent age is different from state to another inside America itself, for example, the sexual fitness age in Aiwa, Missouri and South Carolina is fourteen while the age of consent in Arizona, California, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee and Weskinson is not less than eighteen.
            http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.ht

          • Saleem

            Brides in Africa are Younger than Ten?

            In order to make the picture clearer to the Western people in the 21st century, let's compare between a nine-year-old girl in America and a nine-year-old girl in some countries in Africa nowadays. The American girl used to live a modern easy life with all means of entertainment, joy and luxury, while the African girl, in some of the black-skin countries, use to shepherd sheep, bring water from wells several kilometers far from her house, know cocking, clean the house, participate in the agricultural works, and carry out other tasks just like the older people in spite of her childhood. These responsibilities make the African girl in the 21st century an intellectually mature girl who is able to run her own affairs when her family is not at home. However, the American or European girl is living a modern easy life and do not bear such heavy responsibilities. She has a baby sitter if her family is not at home. Moreover, the African girl in the above mentioned example can take care of the western girl in spite of their equal ages. So, how about the Arab girl before 14 centuries? The Arab girl then was living in circumstances similar to the African girl in term of tasks and responsibilities. The Arab girl at seven and eight years, since 14 centuries, was fully mature and responsible just like the African girl in the above mentioned example. Therefore, she cannot be considered similar to the Western girl who has no responsibilities. Accordingly, the Western people should not compare the circumstances of the Western girl in the 21st century with the circumstances of the Arab girl before 14 centuries, because any judgment like this will be inaccurate and not just in the best cases. Moreover, the Western people should take into consideration that the body of the girl in the hot regions reaches maturity before the girls in the cold regions. The femininity of the girl in the hot regions appears before the femininity of girls in the cold regions; therefore, she will be qualified for marriage in early age. This is exactly the case in the Arabian Peninsula before 14 centuries. The environment of the Arabian Peninsula makes the girls mature in early age, contrary to the environment of Europe & America; therefore, there is no way for the criticizers to compare.

          • Saleem

            Let's Pause here!

            It is important to know that the instigators who exploited this marriage to harm Prophet Muhammad – Peace be upon him – have relied on the ignorance of people about the details of such marriage and tried to gain the sympathy of the western people toward Aisha as if she was an American girl in the 21st century and was deprived of her childhood, while the actual facts are totally different. It is not logical to compare the American or Western girl in the 21st century with an Eastern Arabian girl before 1400 years. This is totally illogical because it is misleading and causing misunderstanding reality; therefore it will lead to misjudgment. If such criticizers want the Prophet – Peace be upon him – before 14 centuries to marry according to the American or Western customs in the 21st century, it is then their own affair; they cannot impose their own principles on generations preceding them several hundreds of years. It is not logical to issue judgments on the old generations according to circumstances which they did not live or participate or establish. Moreover, such criticizers did not compare the marriage of the Prophet – Peace be upon him – and Aisha – May Allah be pleased with her – with the realty & customs of several Western and Christian countries after hundreds of years and did not compare it with the marriage in the Jewish religion which allowed the marriage of a child when she attain three years and one day only. Therefore, this demonstrates the incredibility of such criticizers and discharges the Prophet – Peace be upon him – from their fabricated allegations and falsifications. It is worth mentioning here also that several prophets – Peace be upon them – were very old and married young virgin girls. The Bible mentioned that Dawood (David) – Peace be upon him – was old and caught cold and was not able to warm himself in spite of wearing heavy clothes. Kings1, the first chapter, stated:

            "When King David was old and well advanced in years, he could not keep warm even when they put covers over him. So his servants said to him, "Let us look for a young virgin to attend the king and take care of him. She can lie beside him so that our lord the king may keep warm. Then they searched throughout Israel for a beautiful girl and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. "

            It is a very clear picture; Prophet Dawood (David) – Peace be upon him – was very old; however, they searched for him a virgin girl tens of years younger than him in order to keep him warm. Such verses are speaking about sexual meanings such as warming Prophet Dawood – Peace be upon him – using a young beautiful virgin girl, as stated in the verses! So, why don't such people who instigate against Islam look at this issue and consider it rape? Why don't the Western media speak about such event the way they speak about the marriage of the Prophet – Peace be upon him – and Aisha? The reason is simple; the purpose of such criticism is not such marriage cases or relationships; contrary, they are seeking to distort the picture of Islam only, instigating against it and making people hate this religion and its followers! But the truth will appear some day, and people will surely discover the malicious goals and methods of such instigators.

          • Chezwick_Mac

            All that effort at apologetics, Saleem…and it changes NOTHING.

            According to Islam's OWN SCRIPTURE (the Authoritative Hadith collection of Bukari), Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9 years old. For as long as HIS behavior is emulated by Muslims, children will be sexually exploited and victimized. We infidels – so "morally corrupt" in your twisted value-system – have outlawed such exploitation for decades. But in Iran, after the Islamic revolution in 1979, one of the first laws enacted by the new regime was to lower the age of marriage for girls to 9.

            The pronounced moral failings of the "Prophet" Muhammad, from his orders to murder POWs (Banu Qurayzah) and poets (Abu Afak, Marwan) to his defiling of 9-year-old Aisha, are fully documented for all to see in the Hadith and the Sirat Rasul. By today's ethical standards, he is a war criminal, a murderer and a pedophile.

          • lanastaslem1

            This just in: some countries and cultures actually advanced and realized it is perverted for a person to have intercourse with a nine-year old child. Emphasis on "some countries and cultures actually advanced.." I'd write more but I have to get to the stoning. The government–GASP!–discovered two gay people in our midst…

          • Nan

            Note also that apocryphal writings are deemed not to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. While someone wrote this information, that does not mean it is true; it certainly isn't part of Tradition or Scripture.

            The problem is not, in itself, that the Blessed Virgin Mary was betrothed at a young age; the problem is that Muslims insist on staying in the 7th century and even those living in countries with laws against child marriage and polygamy insist on treating their women as chattel.

        • Nan

          Note also that the Blessed Virgin Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit, not Saint Joseph and that they lived chastely together; ie, didn't have sex. Ever.

          • southwood

            Is that how it mentions all Jesus' brethren and sisters in the bible ? Mary was a sinner like anyone else. You are completely wrong. It's so unbiblical.

          • Abelard

            No question that Mary likely was a sinner like everybody else, although compared to MOST people she would indeed have been very much less of one in all likelihood!! After all, God didn't intend to select just anyone to carry His Only-Begotten Son, the truly-sinless Second Adam. She HAD to be special, though I can see where excessive veneration does come perilously close to idolatry.

          • southwood

            Yes she was obviously a holy woman. Some dogmas (notably RC and Orthodox) teach, however, that she was born without sin, that she is co-mediatrix. These are not in accord with the scriptural persona of Mary.

        • 1389AD

          No, Joseph was no pedophile. Joseph did NOT have sex with Mary. Not before Jesus was born, and not after. He accepted the betrothal to Mary solely in order to PROTECT Mary.

          • MikeeUSA

            In the Biblical law it straight up says that if a man (forcefully) seizes a girl virgin and lies with her… she must be his woman(ie: wife) and he may not send her away, also he pays father 50 silver. The word actually is girl or young, not woman as in other passages. IE: up till adolecence. A sweet young girl. The man who rapes a young virgin female keeps her. Also elsewhere Moses orders the men to take the women children.

            Anyway, be deluded all you want about Joseph, the argument doesn't hinge on him. Men ruled that culture. They had sweet young brides, they were happy (the men), it was good.

            I wish we could have good young brides like that. We are ruled by women and good men however and they imprison and kill us for that… having the girls as wives.

          • MikeeUSA

            In the Biblical law it straight up says that if a man (forcefully) seizes a girl virgin and lies with her… she must be his woman(ie: wife) and he may not send her away, also he pays father 50 silver. The word actually is girl or young, not woman as in other passages. IE: up till adolecence. A sweet young girl. The man who rapes a young virgin female keeps her. Also elsewhere Moses orders the men to take the women children.

            Anyway, be deluded all you want about Joseph, the argument doesn't hinge on him. Men ruled that culture. They had sweet young brides, they were happy (the men), it was good.

            I wish we could have good young brides like that. We are ruled by women and good men however and they imprison and kill us for that… having the girls as wives.

          • southwood

            No, Joseph was certainly not a pedophile but he did have intercourse with Mary. How else do you explain Jesus having brothers and sisters as is mentioned in the bible. Jude, for example, was Jesrs' brother. And Joseph did NOT accept " betrothal to Mary solely in order to protect her". He wanted to put her away when he found she was expecting Jesus but the angel appeared to him and told him not to put her away. It's in the bible, plain as can be.

          • 1389AD

            Joseph was an elderly widower who had six children by his first wife. Those were Jesus' brothers and sisters.

            Joseph did not know at that time that Mary's unborn child would be Jesus Christ. Instead, he assumed that Mary had had sexual relations with someone else. Betrothal was considered to be a binding agreement. Sex outside of marriage at that time was considered to be a serious offense, sometimes even a capital offense.

          • southwood

            "Joseph was an elderly widower who had six children by his first wife. Those were Jesus' brothers and sisters. "

            First I heard of it. Where did you get this nonsense. Not in the bible for sure.

            " Joseph did not know at that time that Mary's unborn child would be Jesus Christ. Instead, he assumed that Mary had had sexual relations with someone else. ".

            The bible states clearly that the angel told him the child would be born of the Holy Spirit and that he was not to put Mary away.
            That is why he took her as a wife after all.

            You need to read your bible and stop believing in absurd traditions of men.

          • Abelard

            Yes, Joseph INITIALLY assumed that Mary had had sexual relations with somebody else; however, when he was then pondering over how to withdraw from the betrothal without harming Mary, THAT was when the angel told him that she was pregnant by the Holy Ghost and that he shouldn't hesitate to marry her.

          • southwood

            Exactly.

          • 1389AD

            "Absurd traditions of men"? It is a misconception that no valid information has been passed down from the time of the Apostles, other than what was physically written down. The Orthodox Christian Church does preserve certain traditions that in no way contradict, but which help us to interpret, the contents of the Bible.

            Writing materials were expensive back then. Copying had to be done by hand. Many people could not read. Even for those who could read, Scripture was meant to be interpreted in the context of oral traditions. Most information was passed along by oral teaching, not by writing as it is now.

            It took many years for all of the books of the Bible to be written down. No church had a complete copy of what we now know as the New Testament. It took several centuries for the early Church to decide which books should be compiled into the Bible.

            There was never any intention that the Bible was to be the EXCLUSIVE repository for Christian teachings. That idea came in only with Protestantism, fourteen centuries later.

          • southwood

            Read the last chapter of the bible. Read it AGAIN AND AGAIN until the light goes on in your darkened mind. It states as clear as day that NOTHING is to be added or taken away from the words of the bible. Oral traditions are what perverted the teaching of the Jews in the time of Christ. Oral traditions have perverted the Orthodox and Romanists. Oftentimes these traditions contradict the words of the bible. You need to humble yourself and learn. I hope you will as I wish you no ill whatsoever.

          • Origanalist

            A bit off topic, but if you were wondering why I was checking your posts out southwood it was merely curiosity. It's good to get out of the American bubble and see what the folks across the pond are thinking once in a while.

          • southwood

            Origanalist, you are welcome to any time. You're the first person to tell me you were looking at them. Most people look at other people's posts without explaining, and really it's not necessary. I do it myself. The only problem is that one's enemies can follow one around the blogosphere. I remember you had points fluctuations just like me. Mine are gradually creeping up again but I notice a lot of commentators still complaining about big, inexplicable fluctuations. Hope your cat is doing well btw !

          • Origanalist

            He's livin' the good life southwood. Nice to talk to you again. I'll probably drop in occasionally for reasons stated, still like your posts and here's hoping you're well.

          • southwood

            Thank you. Great to hear that he is well but can I ask: are these black marks on his forehead natural or is it something on his head ; it's really puzzling me ?

          • Origanalist

            You will be glad to hear that 1,
            that's not really my cat, mine is black with white feet and some white on his face

            And 2, those black marks you see are mice! Change the zoom level and you will see them better. I just thought the picture was a great illustration of how I felt about big government. I'm assuming that cat is doing well also-)

          • southwood

            I suspected they might be mice. It's a great picture.

    • lanastaslem1

      So it is against Islamic law? You can bring the marriage before a judge?__ Hmmmmm. what if your husband won't go out in public with you so you can get to court? Lan Astaslem

    • Stuart Parsons

      Hey Abdullah forcing a woman may be against Islamic Law, but millions of forced marriages take place every year with the conivance of Muslim authorities. It would take a strong woman to actually find a sympathetic lawyer to help her. Face up to it man, Islam is a Hell hole dreamt up by a pathological narcissist who claimed to be a 'Prophet'

      • http://www.myspace.com/rickythegemini Ricky

        Well said Stuart. Muhamad and his god are both jack asses!

    • MikeeUSA

      Forcing young daughters to marry is not against Biblical law though. The father can force his daughter. Also any man can take an unbetrothed virgin girl if he wants, he just has to pay the father 50 sheckles of silver (600 US Dollars ) and she must become his wife, he may not send her away though.

      Biblical law is good for men. Why wouldn't you proudly follow it. Men want sweet young pretty brides.

      • MikeeUSA

        (The 50 sheckles thing is part of the Biblical rape law… that really was a men's society. Sweet young virgins as brides, commanded complete obedience. Also the word used for husband is ba'al, which in hebrew ment master. What is it in arabic, I bet it's similar? (Or in arabic is it ab? (nurisher))

        Abdullah: I'm looking for an english to arabic lexicon so I can learn the nuances, but cannot find one (I want to know if you use "master" for husband like the hebrews did apparently). Are you trying to hide something Abdullah.

  • Lady_dr

    And just who is the Saudi judge? a man who may well have a child bride himself. Abdullah – no one in the Western world (except a few ignorant leftest losers) believe such nonsense. WE KNOW that Islamic law is always anti-woman, anti-freedom, anti-individualist. And we know that the Moslems of Israel have the right to vote, self-determination, better health care than they get in Islamic countries, and their women can get an education. I suggest you do some research – then maybe you can free yourself from Islamic tyranny of the mind. You might even find a real life for yourself instead of being a mouthpiece for tyrants.

  • Chezwick_Mac

    As much as I admire Phylis, I think she's getting a bit carried away regarding the importance and relevance of this group.

  • Debbie

    Saleem
    I really don't care about the past and who did what hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. The important point to be made here is, do women in the Middle East have any say in when and who they marry NOW? How they dress in public or if they can go out alone? I don't think so. Except for some really out there polygamist cults here in America, we have outlawed such things. And as far as those cults are concerned, the law is after them too. We do not condone such activities here in the good old USA. We have advanced women's rights. The Middle East has not. End of story.

  • Iram

    Human beings are carbon based life forms – under the great pressures of suffering and sacrifice spectacular diamonds are formed. Perhaps even one of these diamonds lives in your household?

    It is easy to imagine the great expectations of the people who wrote the holy books to help what would have been us at the time – a barbaric, illiterate, superstitious people who condoned slavery and thought of women only as chattel. Imagine, not understanding that the world was round, no cameras, fridge, television, newspapers, telephones, internet, vehicles, planes etc. Ordinary people could not even read. Books were only hand written works of art for the wealthy. The holy books served the purpose of bringing humble farmers, herders, fishermen and merchants some ethical,spiritual and practical guidance (some of which is no longer is relevant.) While some of what is written is no longer useful – much is still valuable to Mankind. Mankind has finally begun to see women as their counterpart. Wise, powerful men are not lustful and threatened by women. They welcome women as a valuable ally, friend and an intellectual partner. This is a world wide evolution of mankind. Even in the west, it can be argued that women are still only appreciated in society first as sexual objects. Great wise women of the world, diplomats, inventors, engineers, artists, writers and thinkers always existed – but now they are beginning to be recognized and appreciated. Muslim contributions to the world have been vast http://salems2.tripod.com/muslim_contribution_to_
    … it is not inconceivable that brilliant, humble, courageous, beautiful Islamic women will herald in a new era of civilized evolution in the East.

    Scheherazade's adventurous spirit still rides in the desert…
    http://www.britannica.com/women/article-9045239

    God = Everything
    Therefore You and I and my "enemies" are Divine
    Let us learn together how to live in this peaceful, wise, loving, joyous state of Divinity

  • Daniel Kremer

    Here's a complex point I'd like to explore. The liberal penchant for Islamist tolerance and vilification of Israel is ironically bourgeois in its essence and by its very nature, Phyllis. As well as the deep-seated desire to root for this underdog's drive to uphold and sustain dark age customs concerning civil rights of women and everyone oppressed under the theocratic Islamist rule of these nations, it is also, funnily enough, the following mentality: "We, as liberals and happy-go-lucky plularists, from our collectivist socioeconomic ivory tower, may hold Middle Eastern 'Islamatocracies' to a lower moral and ethical standard because we have a capital on what is just and good as American liberals, and thus it appeals to us to support such practices, even though it counters everything for which we fight." It is also an initiative to stand up for "traditions" even when they are fundamentally animalistic and wrong by any rational being's moral compass. The liberal mentality in this case, by the very nature of attempting to appeal to this happy-go-lucky pluralist mindset, instead appear as truly Orientalist, bourgeois and narrow-minded within this rationale. One might level an accusation of sophistry at that reasoning, but any roundabout logic that shrouds blind side-taking without weighing of the true conditions can be defended (weakly) and still somehow stand. In college, I used to consider myself a liberal. I am a moderate now, but I cannot bring myself to support a single thing, even an iota of that single thing, under an Islamist rule. It is beyond dark ages.

  • dawning

    why? too succinct/

  • dawning

    You allow an islamist to rant 7or8 long postings and I reply with one brief very succinct paragraph and you disallow my post????

  • SwampFox2U

    Interesting reads. Nature looks at puberty as the time of the species to reproduce married or otherwise and has nothing to do with cultural mores or religion. Unfortunately Western thought considers and treats young adults (teenagers) as children when Nature has prepared them to survive and continue the species anywhere from 10 to 13 years of age. History is full of brides around 13 years of age.
    Western thought skips over the Hebrews stoning folks for breaking their Religeous Laws and their culture of women being chatel property even into the common era..

  • Saudi Zebra

    I am not saying Saudi Arabia doesn't mistreat it's women. I am a Saudi Women and know it first-hand, but you have to know that sharia law is more complicated than you make it out to be, most parts of it can have several potential interpretations, and very few offenses have clearly stated punishments. the other thing you should know, Saudi Arabia as much as it wants to believe it implements sharia, doesn't.
    I always tell people to not confuse Saudi Arabia, with Islam. We don't represent Islam as it should be.
    that said, I have to say things however, are not as bad as you mention in your article. Never In my whole life have I , nor have my parents, ever heard of a women confined because of anything she did, and I know a few who have been caught drinking, and/or having sex with a man. I even know a girl who was caught smoking marijuana.
    You say that sharia laws state this and that, which is totally inaccurate. yes adultery is a capital offense punished be death, but sharia law specifically states that the act "itself" be witnessed by four men!!
    the rest of the things you mention have nothing to do with sharia. these are more to do with the traditions of the beduin customs and traditions. And not all are accurate. yes Saudi women currently, can't drive. they also can't open an account or get an education or accept a job or travel without the approval of the male guardian, which again is not sharia law, but saudi law. but they do not HAVE to cover from head to toe, veiling of the face is optional, I don't caver my face and so far I've never been beaten for it. plus a woman can refuse marriage, and can add a condition of not accepting polygamy in the marriage contract.

    Yes we seek reform, I am a member of the Saudi Women Revolution and I believe that THIS is indeed the right time for change. Whether demonstrations are held on March the 13th or not. It is time for Saudi women to be given their God given rights.

    • TheMsBornfree

      You go girl! I am very proud of you… May God grant you all the best!

      • Saudi Zebra

        Thanks MSBornfree. And may Allah grant you the best as well :)

  • TheMsBornfree

    We American women do not realize just how extremely lucky we are, do we? I would not last one day over there, for it wouldn't be for adultry or anything like that, it would be out & out murder! For the sucker that hit me or abused me, would have to sleep sometime! Why would a man want you to fear him? Wouldn't it be nice to know instead that he had your undying love, that you CHOOSE to be with him & that he was your best friend? Besides, I am claustraphobic how in the heck could I stand being covered head to toe? I had a friend (American) in Saudi & he described 'chop-chop' square there where Sharia law was still practiced. I know this, I will not ever leave my beloved USA!

  • Penfire

    You may not leave your beloved USA but the Shariaites are bound and determined, with the loving help of their progressive, liberal "American" sophists, going to be implemented right here ! Are you blind and deaf? There is a war going on in America and it is for her very life and for the freedoms you say you enjoy. There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim…at some point, any of them can be the next terrorists highjackers or bomb wearing idiots standing next to you in a restaurant, subway, airport or whatever. Only God can rid us of this idiocy.

  • MikeeUSA

    In the Biblical law it straight up says that if a man (forcefully) seizes a girl virgin and lies with her… she must be his woman(ie: wife) and he may not send her away, also he pays father 50 silver. The word actually is girl or young, not woman as in other passages. IE: up till adolecence. A sweet young girl. The man who rapes a young virgin female keeps her. Also elsewhere Moses orders the men to take the women children.

    Anyway, be deluded all you want about Joseph, the argument doesn't hinge on him. Men ruled that culture. They had sweet young brides, they were happy (the men), it was good.

    I wish we could have good young brides like that. We are ruled by women and good men however and they imprison and kill us for that… having the girls as wives.

  • solsamba

    I suggest any men reading this post who think it is extreme read a feminist classic, like Marilyn French's 'Beyond Power' to get an idea of what it is to live in the world as a woman.
    I wish you all would do some research and just listen to women before you write something.
    Sexism is different all over the world – in some ways I had much more freedom on the street, even at 4 AM in Rio de Janeiro than I do in any American city. I've heard that Sweden and Iceland are countries that embrace feminism. Meaning they embrace women.
    Must be nice….

    • MikeeUSA

      Must be nice….

      Not for men. Most countries around the world embrace women's rights. There's really nowhere to go.

  • http://samsungbd-f5900.blogspot.com/ Samsung BD-F5900 3D Wi-Fi Blu-ray Disc Player

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  • http://www.parrot-training.com/ www.parrot-training.com

    I almost never comment, however i did a few searching and wound up
    here Saudi Arabia: The Next Capital of Islamic Feminism?

    | FrontPage Magazine. And I do have a couple of questions for
    you if you don’t mind. Could it be just me or does it look as if like some of these responses look as if they are left by brain dead people? :-P And, if you are posting at additional online sites, I’d like
    to keep up with anything new you have to
    post. Could you make a list of every one of your community sites
    like your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?