Occupy Oakland’s Mayhem and Destruction

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Quan has been indecisive, veering wildly between using force to shut down the first encampment across from city hall, while expressing her solidarity with the protestors’ aims. As University of San Francisco political scientist Corey Cook observed, Quan has alienated both police and protestors at the same time. “She has no friends at this point,” he told the Associated Press. Qaun’s flip-flopping caused the Oakland Police Association to issue a scathing letter, pointing out Quan’s massive inconsistency in asking them to clear the protest encampment one day and then allowing them back in a few days later.

There is something pathetic in Quan’s lack of leadership and indecision. As battles between police and protestors were raging on early Thursday morning, the mayor tweeted to the thugs tearing up her city, “Reports that tires are burning and barricades set up on 16th. Protestors need to call my office now.” Downtown Oakland is in chaos and all she can think of doing is ask the rioters to call her? Quan made several other tweets, all asking protestors to call her and talk. If it were just about any other city in the United States, the possibility of impeachment would be raised for trying to negotiate with domestic terrorists. In Oakland, however, the losses in private property and massive clean up bill is seen as the price to be paid for “freedom of speech.” But even Oakland has its limits. Quan now faces a possible recall as the result of her weakness in the face of violence.

Equally pathetic are the protestations from many protest organizers that they “disavow” the violence. A member of the Occupy Oakland “media committee” protested that the group “does not advocate violence and has no interest in supporting actions that endanger the community and possibilities that it has worked to build.”

They may believe that statement, but the reality of the situation points to something far more revealing: they refuse to police the “fringe” characters among them whose blood curdling pronouncements about “death” to bankers and police incite the kinds of incidents that occurred in downtown Oakland late Wednesday evening. The true “leaders” of this protest are those who are using the idealists as useful idiots to give the media a benign, even admirable view of the Occupy Oakland movement.

As witnessed during the riot, the whole point of the marches and demonstrations is to provoke a strong police response where people will be injured (not them), and perhaps even killed. They have made a martyr out of a young Iraq War vet who was accidentally hit in head by a tear gas canister, suffering a serious head injury. The incident has become a rallying point not only in Oakland, but at Occupy protests around the country. Despite the fact that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that police actually aimed a tear gas gun at the young man, the cry has gone up around the country that his injuries were the result of “police brutality.”

Those who claim to eschew violence do precious little to prevent incitement in their own encampment where signage promotes revolution, and death to authorities. And — perhaps unwittingly, perhaps not — the publicity that the anarchists and violent revolutionaries bring to the movement as a result of riots and violent confrontations with police, serves the Occupy movement in its efforts to grow and attract a larger following.

Recent polls have been all over the map regarding the acceptance of the Occupy movement. An ORC International poll reported by CNN shows that 37% agree with “the overall positions” of the Occupy movement while 19% are opposed. A plurality — 44% — said they weren’t sure.

Meanwhile, a Quinnipiac poll reported by National Journal shows that 39% view the Occupy movement unfavorably while only 30% have a favorable opinion. Another 30% have no opinion or aren’t sure.

People may hate bailouts and think Wall Street is too greedy, and they may even resent the income disparity in America. Envy is not unknown in this country and it is easy to gin up outrage at “the rich” and “the bankers” simply by appealing to the lowest and basest of our emotions.

But if you ask people directly do they support the “Death of Capitalism,” few would say yes. And even fewer would support the Communists, anarchists, nihilists, and thugs who are the real leaders of the Occupy movement around the country, seeking a violent overturning of society and our economic system.

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  • usapatriot

    How did this end up at the top of my search results? What a schlocky and opinionated piece.

    • Larry

      Go away you troll. Running a handle like usapatriot doesn't fool anybody but yourself.

      • Herman Caintonette

        He is more of a patriot than the treasonous Israel-Firsters of Team Horrorwitz. Deal with it.

        • mah29001

          The obvious message of the German-American Bund…..

    • davarino

      Hmm, yes opinionated. Thanks for pointing that out, and your opinion sucks, schlockmeister.

    • tagalog

      I don't know about "schlocky;" that's a term with a pretty loose meaning, but obviously a piece written for a right-wing website is going to be opinionated.

      What did you expect, objective reporting from an opinion website? That must be that smart thing lefties and libs have, as opposed to us conservatives of the Stupid Party.

    • tompro97

      You're no patriot – how dare you call yourself one?? I doubt you know what the word means!!!

      • USA Rules!

        No, you're no patriot! SO there!

  • edz
    • davarino

      Im glad they are fighting for us. They are such vibrant and alive and beautiful and intellectual, young people. As Nancy Pelosi would say, they have so much to give to us and add to the nation.

      Lets sing kumbya

    • tagalog

      The face of the Revolution. What we can look forward to if we give these people their head.

  • Paul Muadib

    Sad to see such hate in the name of change. Thanks for posting the video. Clearly the viewer can see the Jacobites usurping the Movement from the “sheeple.” I’m shocked that they bother to argue with them. When they are rounded up together, then they will cry, since no one will ever hire them with a felony vandalism record!

  • Rifleman

    Like a jilted lover in denial, mayor quan was begging the rioters to "call me" with her phone number and "you still haven't called me" while they were trashing her town. How pathetic! The teamsters and the teachers unions were represented, no surprise there.

  • Rifleman

    From a Mercury 'News' story I saw:
    They called it a "mostly peaceful day" because they only threw a few dozen rocks, trashed a a few banks and stores, and shut down the port before evening. A “mostly peaceful day” is still a violent day, and it obviously didn’t “turn heated,” it turned more violent. "Violent" would be in the headline and in every paragraph of the stories in every paper and on every newscast if the Tea Partiers threw one rock or trashed one store anywhere anytime.

    “…a splinter group wearing black clothing and face masks…” Lol, it’s always a ‘splinter group’ causing trouble at leftist rallys, and they sure used a lot of words to keep from saying “anarchists.”

    No bias to see here, move along… I don't no what's more pathetic, the mayor or the news quacks covering this. Just like the Tea Party protests, yea right.

    The idiots shut down about the only thing Oakland still has going for it, the port. They also attacked one of their own, Whole Foods, over a rumour. Next they’ll be protesting because not enough people are dumb enough to open a new business in Oakland, and they can’t get a job there.

    • davarino

      Thats what happened in the French revolution, they eventually turned on each other and started executing people who had been on their side. They were like animals who were suspicious of everyone, and everything.

      OWS = BS

      • Herman Caintonette

        Kind of like modern Republicans.

        • davarino

          Ya, exactly, those Tea baggers are animals. Your on to us.

          You didnt watch Sesame Street when you were a kid to learn "which one of these is most like the others" did you? Oh well, so much for public schools.

          • Herman Caintonette

            As a Republican official, I've been to both TP and OWS. Those "long-haired hippie freaks" I talked to were, on average, substantially more intelligent and aware of the world around them than the Dixiecrats (the "Tea Party" is just the latest incarnation) who were dressed up in tri-cornered hats. Frankly, I have never seen more abject ignorance of the Constitution from people who claim to revere it fhan I witnessed in the Tea Party.

    • mlcblog

      I believe them that most of the people are there believing it's a nonviolent demonstration. The traditional appearance of the black-hooded henchmen is no surprise. They do show up and trash the scene with their violence and lawlessness.

      This is what wrecked the lovely flower child days in the 1960's and continues to rear its ugly head whenever people attempt to peacefully demonstrate.

      I have seen it up close and personal as a fact of life. Certain things can be expected to happen, and reliably a violent angry few will cause this sort of destruction and give the whole thing a bad name and taint it, not that I agree with the peaceful demonstrators but I do trust that they are out there trying to say their ideas.

  • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

    Why are violence, window smashing, and graffiti acceptable when the US manufactures the mob in Libya, a country that shares its oil wealth with the people, but not acceptable in the US when the mob self assembles because the country does not share its oil wealth with the people?

    • davarino

      You have lost your mind. You need to lay off the crank

    • tanstaafl

      Because this is a country that understands the rule of law.

      • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

        Not for bankers.

        • Rifleman

          What law did they break with impunity?

          • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

            First and foremost, investment fraud. Secondly, operating as a cartel. Thirdly, accounting fraud. Fourthly, transferring the central banking wealth if the United States to the Bank of the World in Europe, without constitutional basis or Congressional approval. Looting the treasury is not legal. Selling fake commodities is not legal.

          • Noway2no

            They were not fake in the eyes of the wonderful folks in congress Frank and Dodd in particular. Those crooks used their positions to pourposly not-regulate derivitives and swaps. they created the environment that edorsed your "looting the tresuray" and "selling fake commodties".

          • Noway2no

            Spell checked version:

            They were not fake in the eyes of the wonderful folks in congress Frank and Dodd in particular. Those crooks used their positions to purposely not-regulate derivatives and swaps. They created the environment that endorsed your "looting the treasury" and "selling fake commodities".

            Just a weakness of mine.

          • Rifleman

            If they broke any actual laws, they'd be charged in criminal court and face civil suits as well. The banks just followed the rules and laws of the government, you just can't bring yourself to place the blame where it belongs.

          • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

            I never endorsed Frank or Dodd. They are both jerks. Rifleman, you’re just talking smack. The government is of course to blame too. You guys should not automatically assume people are Democrats.

          • Herman Caintonette

            Mail and wire fraud, for starters. Five years per incident.

    • Rifleman

      Who said it was acceptable in Libya, other than democrats and other leftists?

      Oh, so "Drill baby drill, and give the money from it to us," is what they're protesting for? Silly me, I thought they were protesting against the free market, banks, those evil Wall St. lackeys and rich people.

      • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

        You are silly.

    • Don from BC

      I was there 2 days after Gaddafi was killed. There were celebrations and everyone I talked to was jubilant at their new found freedom. I've seen the crappy conditions they live in. If Gaddafi was sharing the wealth so much, then that place should've looked like some of the best neighbourhoods in Canada or the US. Instead, it looked like countries like Pakistan (Which I visited in Aug 2010) or India (I'm currently in India). And they're not that nice.

  • kafir4life

    So this is the grass roots that nancy (anal beads) pelosi said she supported? When she was concerned last year about violence (with her crocodile tears) is this what she was refering to? Where'd she go?? These are HER PEOPLE!!!

    • Rifleman

      Hey, you're not supposed to remember what she said last year.

      • Herman Caintonette

        I'd imagine that kafir is an expert on anal beads….

        • davarino

          He is simply trying to convey how vile pelosi is, that all : )

          • Herman Caintonette

            No more so than the last surviving Orange-American (you have to know something about Urantia to get this joke). Cantor, McConnell, Ryan — little to recommend about our neo-Fascists in Congress.

            What did those clowns spend their time doing? Passing a spectacularly inane resolution affirming that "In God We Trust" and minting coins commemorating the National Baseball Hall of Fame? We had better be able to place our trust in God, because we sure can't trust them to run our country.

        • kafir4life

          No mohamat, just an obersever of leftie porno queens such as yourself, Notice that Nanc wears brown beads (used) and white beads (fresh). She's got a much bigger smile when sporting the brown ones. How's that pedophile prophet workin' out for ya there, moon god worshipper?
          allahu snackbar!!

  • scum

    That's why they shouldn't have cleared them from the park. Every idiot knows that … except the chief of police. And do we smell shades of Tom Ryan here? Hmmmm

    • Rifleman

      You're right, they should have locked their sorry butts up instead of running them out of the park.

  • Libertyman

    This is the children of the low lives who spat in the face of serviceman coming home from Vietnam and sometimes murdered them. To use a phrase from Michael Dukakis …"the fish rots from the head down." To use a more biblical expression, "The acorn doesn't drop too far from the tree." or is that A.C.O.R.N.?

    • Herman Caintonette

      You mean, those baby-killing tools of the military-industrial complex? 'Well, it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn! The next stop is Viet Nam."

    • mlcblog

      You know it. No respect. A destructive generation. Where have I heard that before? I was one of them. Can't change fast enough. Work on communication and influence all the time so as to persuade and spread a higher message such as how absolutely great our Constitution is and our country was designed.

      I think of Nehemiah rebuilding the wall to protect the city. The rock foundation for that was the discovery of the Book of the Law lying on top of the rubble heap. They found it (our Constitution) and saw that it had the words of life in there and began to find ways to adhere to it so they could prosper and live in peace, and their neighbors could, too.

    • scum

      It's also the servicemen fresh from Iraq who fought when the chicken hawks like Bush bought their way out. One Army Ranger is in intensive care right now as we speak. Hardly the de-individualized 'howling mob' you're talking about.

  • Steve Chavez

    Any TEARS from Nancy Pelosi? Where is Obama now? Shouldn't he speak out AGAINST this anarchy?

    Here in Albuquerque, the protest at the University have been shut down and then allowed again with limited times. The local Peace and Justice operatives have taken over the movement and just yesterday, members of the NM Communist Party were at the site planning strategy. I also know that it is against IRS rules for the CP to be meeting at the P and J!

    Drunks and the homeless took over the camp since there was free food and a place to pass out in relative safety. A man pulled out a knife and then fled but police caught him. A WOMAN DIED after walking across the street from the camp. Three protesters went on a hunger strike and the leader of this strike gave it up after his requirement of meeting with the university President was met. NOW THE PRESIDENT, by giving in to this childhood tantrum, has opened himself up to more blackmail by these hero wannabes!


  • jacob

    So the unions are showing us who is boss….! ! !
    Considering the kind of government we have and the fact that the AFLCIO head
    knocker is a White House fixture, I guess they are entitled to…

    Well,sad that we have to wait a year to expel the parachutist we have at the White
    House and kick out the DEMOCRAP party from power and then again, given the
    sad state of affairsand people's stupidity, the ANNOITED ONE could surprise us

    • scum

      America's workforce is primarily non-union. And some of the last unions are actually composed of conservatives (Fire / Police). In Ohio the neo-cons have recently made a mistake because they're going after ALL unions, while in Wisconsin they tried the embarassingly political strategy of targeting only 'liberal' unions. We've shifted to a lagely non-union workforce since Reagan. Now answer this question: How has your life improved as a result? Do you feel better now as the neo-cons continue the 'Race to the Bottom' that somehow is supposed to save us? If the populace has no money, the populace cannot spend. Even Marx knew that…

  • Brujo Blanco

    I thought this would turn violent as soon as I heard the communist rhetoric. Violence is a tool of leftist movements.’ in fact injury and death feeds their cause. They pricks the authorities into action and when the provocation is successful they blame the authorities for the damage. I was living overseas when two police officers were burned to death by leftist students. The only motivation they needed was that these cops were wearing uniforms.

    • aspacia


      Was this incident in Greece?

    • scum

      Violence has largely been a tool of right wing agents provocateurs, or the police who started the violence when they 'cleared the park' about a week ago. Usually the violence we see is a REACTION to police violence: you know, the SWAT teams armed with batons, gas canisters, pepper spray, machine guns, gas masks, tanks, and bullet-proof vests. The protesters don't have any of that….

  • PatriotX

    Police, told to let the unrest continue? What’s wrong with this picture? Am I hearing this right? So, it’s safe to assume that these thugs who intimidated these employees from going to work could do so again and possibly more. Do criminals run our cities now? Well, yea, stupid question? In liberal towns like Oakland it’s pretty much a well known fact. How far does this have to go before something is done and when it is, what measures will be taken to quell the unrest?

    • scum

      Ah, how the Tea Partiers come begging to the state for a bailout. So much for true libertarianism

    • Asher

      The police are told, "Don't do your jobs just like the Sheriffs in Arizona." Don't stop violence, don't stop chaos, don't stop illegals, just let the destruction of America happen, Thats what this amounts to, Thats the plan to destroy us from within.

  • Dispozadaburka

    They really should be camping out in Pelosi's front yard and Obama's home in DC.

    I am sure they would welcome the attention.

  • BS77

    Read Ann Coulter's latest book, DEMONIC…..comes at a perfect time in describing the difference between the American Revolution and the French version. THe Oakland vandalism, window smashing and insanity is the step child of French Revolution mob violence and barbaric behavior. The liberal mayor and left coast press are coddling and appeasing the mobs of rock throwing morons, predictably.

    • Herman Caintonette

      "I have no evidence to support this, but" has been Coulter's mantra for decades. While she doesn't have a monopoly on bat-guano crazy, "Screamboat Annie" certainly has a well-established franchise.

      • BS77

        Hey Herman, go live in Zimbabwe, Cuba or North Korea for a few years….then report back and tell us how wonderful life is in the leftist utopias….better yet, go back to school and get educated first.

        • Herman Caintonette

          Three earned university degrees ought to be quite enough.

          Socialist utopias like Switzerland, Norway, and Sweden aren't that hard to take.

        • Herman Caintonette

          Sweden, Norway, and Switzerland are leftist Utopias, where the people are a lot happier than they are in the US. And I think that three earned university degrees are quite enough (and, quite likely, more than you have); I have never desired to become a professional student.

          • radicalconservative

            Please move to one of the afore-mentioned countries of your dreams.

    • scum

      Again, Coulter's book is largely a mish mash of the long-outdated theories of Gustave le Bon, who spoke about the 'mob' was composed of people without reason, like 'women, children and savages.' It's no wonder that Coulter is a monarchist who supports the Ancien Regime, and a statist who believes in 'crushing the mob.' The fact is, the Seattle tried to 'crush the mob' 10 yrs ago at the WTO riots and ended up paying a pretty penny. And just 2 weeks ago, NYC was ordered to pay up for its illegal rough-housing of protesters in the Republican National Convention 7 yrs ago.

  • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

    “of a young Iraq War vet who was accidentally hit in head by a tear gas canister, suffering a serious head injury. ”

    There you go lying.

    • Rifleman

      You mean Scott Olsen, the guy that founded ihatethemarinecorps.com?

      • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

        You don’t get shot in the head in the United States for your political beliefs. One can only conclude that the police are unamerican.

        • Rifleman

          His political beliefs were irrelevant. He was breaking the law and refusing to obey lawful orders from law enforcement officers. Hanging out with people who are throwing rocks and bottles at cops (and for all I know he was attacking the cops himself) after being told to leave isn’t just un-American, it’s suicidally stupid. He’s lucky they were shooting tear gas canisters instead of 00 buckshot.

          • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

            Cop say people are breaking the law all the time when they are not. Trumped up trespassing charges are crap. And it is not legal to shoot someone in the face for it.

          • Rifleman

            Obviously it IS legal. In Georgia you don't have to be a cop to shoot someone throwing rocks or bottles at you in the face. We've not only got the castle doctrine, we've got a no retreat doctrine. You'd better think twice about initiating violence against someone in Georgia.

          • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

            He wasn’t throwing rocks and bottles. There’s video.

          • Rifleman

            Not uninterrupted video of him and those around him all night.

          • http://www.contextflexed.com Flipside

            There was uninterrupted video of the Rodney King beating, and you know how that turned out.

      • Herman Caintonette

        He's entitled to his opinion; Major General Smedley Butler said basically the same thing, and he had more ribbons than the entire Republican Congress.

  • ross1948

    On the other side of the pond, the mask hasn't so much dropped as blatantly tossed aside. http://rossrightangle.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/tr

    • aspacia


      Yes, I have many UK relatives who are ticked regarding what is happening. They can't even wear Tshirts with the Flag of St. George without offending Muslims.

  • AmericaTheSlaved

    Starting to sound like corporate funded main stream media now, too bad this place doesnt reap the benefits:)

  • tagalog

    Michael Moore, when he claimed that he is among the "99%" and not the "1%" also said that the old capitalist model was to come crashing down, and when asked what he'd replace it with, said with assurance that he didn't know, that it was emerging as things go along. Well, we now know one thing about that: the peaceful and the peace-oriented are being shouted down and physically forestalled by the violent.

    So I guess we can look forward to violence and destruction if the OWS folks and Michael Moore have their way.

    • Herman Caintonette

      Actually, he does. Ever see Capitalism: A Love Story?

  • Herman Caintonette

    Tagalog: "What did you expect, objective reporting from an opinion website?"

    Certainly not from Team Horrorwitz. My take on OWS is based on my own observations on the street, and neo-Nazi Israel First militarist Rick Moron doesn't even pretend to hide his anti-American agenda.

    • Chris Nichols

      So those thugs tearing up the port, and assaulting cops are pro-American? How about those lazy teachers taking a day off to protest, with pay?

      • Herman Caintonette

        You have an absolute right to use force against an oppressor in defense of your lives and liberties. When a cop crosses the line of legality, he becomes an oppressor, and he may lawfully be engaged.

        What the protestors are doing is absolutely pro-American, as did their forefathers in the anti-war movement. You are siding with the thugs.

        • radicalconservative

          Your hatred for Israel is irrational. That country is the only free society in the Middle East. Are you a Muslim fascist?

          • Herman Caintonette

            I don't hate Israel but rather, see that it was constituted illegitimately, and that our national interests lie with the 1.6 billion Muslims who are morally right wrt this matter. Frankly, the Zionists blew it through their tribalism, failing to heed the warnings of Ha'am and the teachings of Hillel — imho, an inexplicable blunder. They made their bed, and had better get used to lying in it.

            It's pouring money down a rat-hole, costing us far more than the money that we feed that relentless parasite (yes, it meets that clinical definition, whether you like it or not) of a nation-state. Why should we double-down on such folly?

        • mlcblog

          I think you are really mixed up, Herman.

          You sound like the party line (lies) I have been hearing from unions and commies all our lives. That the protestors are pro-American and oh, so patriotic is the idea that makes me laugh.

          The root of these demonstrations is pure leftist destruction of our American institutions. I have seen it first-hand and seen how union thugs lend their muscle to supposedly purely idealistic protests.

      • scum

        Actually, the police attacked the protesters by clearing them from the park.

    • aspacia

      Little Cain,

      Here is the American Nazi Party Homepage. They hate all minorities–do you understand–they really hate Jews.

      Nazi means National Socialist, Nationalsozialismus.

      The fact that you turn 90% + of your comments into anti Israel, antiJew propaganda, similar to other trolls reveals your ignorance. The only Jews causing this rioting are liberals like Chomsky, LeVine, Soros, et al.

  • Noway2no

    There is no wealth without capitalism. The feudal system was the last gasp of top-down societal structure. Italy had a renaissance that brought us DaVinci, Michelangelo, Raphael and Machiavelli because of capitalism, which was a new concept at that time.

    Now the numbskull left wants a return to tribal barbarism, how “progressive”.

    • Herman Caintonette

      There are many forms of capitalism, and some are more humane and just than others. Why can't we adopt a more just and more humane form of it?

      • radicalconservative

        Ok Einstein describe your plan in detail…

        • Herman Caintonette

          In 345 words? This is an over-simplification, but I would tweak our system to ensure a more equitable system of division of societal output between capital and labor.

          Thomas Jefferson was our ambassador to France just prior to the Revolution. In a letter to his nephew, James Madison Fontainebleau, he writes:

          "As soon as I had got clear of the town I fell in with a poor woman walking at the same rate with myself and going the same course. Wishing to know the condition of the labouring poor I entered into conversation with her, which I began by enquiries for the path which would lead me into the mountain: and thence proceeded to enquiries into her vocation, condition and circumstance. She told me she was a day labourer, at 8. sous or 4 d. sterling the day; that she had two children to maintain, and to pay a rent of 30 livres for her house (which would consume the hire of 75 days), that often she could get no emploiment, and of course was without bread. As we had walked together near a mile and she had so far served me as a guide, I gave her, on parting 24 sous. She burst into tears of a gratitude which I could perceive was unfeigned, because she was unable to utter a word. She had probably never before received so great an aid. This little attendrissement, with the solitude of my walk led me into a train of reflections on that unequal division of property which occasions the numberless instances of wretchedness which I had observed in this country and is to be observed all over Europe. The property of this country is absolutely concentered in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards. These employ the flower of the country as servants, some of them having as many as 200 domestics, not labouring. They employ also a great number of manufacturers, and tradesmen, and lastly the class of labouring husbandmen. But after all these comes the most numerous of all the classes, that is, the poor who cannot find work."

          This is the problem I see with our own economy: The few have everything, and try as they might, they can't consume enough to keep the populace employed. This naturally foments social unrest, which invariably and ultimately results in an often-violent revolution.

          I maintain that a capitalist system, left to its own devices, will degenerate into a plutocracy, sowing the seeds of the next revolution. As I see revolution as a bad thing, I advocate the adoption of a system that shares the wealth in such a way as to avoid this otherwise inevitable outcome.

          How you get there is beyond the scope of this forum, but the need to get there is self-evident. However, as a capitalist, I submit that we should start acting like capitalists, and steal our competitors' best ideas. For instance, Israel has created a system of business incubation, where new products are brought to market through a public-private partnership. New Zealand's system for the delivery of health-care produces results equivalent to ours, but at a third of the cost; single-payer health-care is something we should embrace out of fiscal necessity, to preserve our competitiveness. And Thomas Jefferson's proposal for a geometric wealth tax preserves the benefits of capitalism while avoiding its downsides: If we taxed Bill O,Really? at 60%, he might retire, but someone else would take his place.

          There is a difference between being a capitalist and a pig; on Wall Street and in nations, pigs have a tendency to eventually get slaughtered.

    • aspacia

      True, and every one of communist instructers, not all were communist, argued that capitalism is the biggest form of wealth generation. Those who are really ambitious may generate as much wealth as they want, those not so ambitious may work and earn enough to make a living, but they must work. A fact that the OW's and Obama, who has never really worked, do not understand.

      • Herman Caintonette

        But if you are looking at the big picture, the balance between labor and capital needs to be reconsidered. I started seeing the slowdown in 2006, as client revenues fell. No customers, no sales, and no jobs. The economy is like a jet engine, which can stall if the fuel mixture is either too rich or too lean.

        • aspacia

          Little Cain, do not spout the dialectic of capitalism to me, I know Marx and Engels, Trotsky, Luxemberg very well. If you ever have trouble sleeping at night read them.

          Marx did not understand human nature. Communism was attempted int he early colonist endeavors and did not work. It was only after profit and loss was introduced on an individual basis did the colonies make a profit and not starve.

          Little Cain I am laughing because you are way out of your league little boy.

          The problem is that Wbya overspent, and the O continued to do so.

          • Herman Caintonette

            It is Adam Smith, which you evidently do not know.

            Capitalism js inherently unstable, a capitalist system predictably devolves into a plutocracy, invariably precipitating a revolution.

          • aspacia

            Smith argues that the product's worth is determined by who wants to purchase it. When demand exceeds supply, the price increases. When supply exceeds demand the price decreases. "Division of labor arises not from innate wisdom, but from humans' propensity to barter. The apparent difference in natural talents between people is a result of specialization, not a cause."

            What you spouted was pure Marxist theory on labor determining a product's value. In a nutshell, if I spend four hours painting a house, and a jouneyman painter spends four hours painting a house, both of us will be paid the same regardless of the quality of the work.

          • Herman Caintonette

            "Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform, combination, not to raise the wages of labor above their actual rate….We seldom, indeed, hear of this combination, because it is the usual and, one may say, the natural state of things which nobody every hears of. Masters, too, sometimes enter into particular combinations to sink the wages of labor even below this rate….Such combinations, however, are frequently resisted by a contrary defensive combination of workmen….

            But though in disputes with their workmen masters must generally have the advantage, there is however a certain rate below which it seems impossible to reduce, for any considerable time, the ordinary wages even of the lowest species of work.

            A man must always live by his work, and his wages must at least be sufficient to maintain him. They must even upon most occasions be somewhat more, otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family, and the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation."

            Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations 28 (at http://books.google.com/books?id=8k_K8rf2fnUC&amp

            In short, while the market can pay you more for your superior work, it cannot pay you less. Why? Self-preservation. If you take a chunk of the wealth so large that there isn't enough to go around, there will be revolution. History has proven this time and again.

          • aspacia

            What is your point? I said this with my previous analogy. Smith was not a communist or socialist.

            Here is what you said: "
            This is the problem I see with our own economy: The few have everything, and try as they might, they can't consume enough to keep the populace employed. This naturally foments social unrest, which invariably and ultimately results in an often-violent revolution.

            I maintain that a capitalist system, left to its own devices, will degenerate into a plutocracy, sowing the seeds of the next revolution. As I see revolution as a bad thing, I advocate the adoption of a system that shares the wealth in such a way as to avoid this otherwise inevitable outcome.

            How you get there is beyond the scope of this forum, but the need to get there is self-evident. However, as a capitalist, I submit that we should start acting like capitalists, and steal our competitors' best ideas. For instance, Israel has created a system of business incubation, where new products are brought to market through a public-private partnership. New Zealand's system for the delivery of health-care produces results equivalent to ours, but at a third of the cost; single-payer health-care is something we should embrace out of fiscal necessity, to preserve our competitiveness. And Thomas Jefferson's proposal for a geometric wealth tax preserves the benefits of capitalism while avoiding its downsides: If we taxed Bill O,Really? at 60%, he might retire, but someone else would take his place."

            You claim is total communism. Reread your claim.

      • scum

        Obama never worked? Where did you get that? In addition to working, he did volunteer labor. And in reference to your claim that OW's don't understand work, the fact is they are protesting a LACK of jobs.

        • aspacia

          Where did the O work and for who?

          OW's should be protesting O's bailouts, not the banks. O could have prevented the bailouts, and if he had I would now support him on the economic basis. I am no longer affiliated with any political party.

          • Herman Caintonette

            That is incredibly stupid, little lady! If you don't find politics, politics will find you.

          • aspacia

            ad hominem fallacy. Reread my comment. I am no longer registered with any political party, but I have voted in every election since I was 18.

            I am very political and understand that every aspect of a person's life is affected by political decisions.

            Oh, the definition of lady dates to Victorian times when ladies did not work, they just managed their spheres of influence, the home and children.

            I have to work for a living, and have worked since I was 16.

          • Herman Caintonette

            Fine. How do you influence the direction of our society, if all you do is vote?

            I've been associated with the Republican Party for decades, serving in various capacities, because I see this need. When it comes to being a patriot, I adopt Mark Twain's approach: "Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

            In my estimation, the Party has jumped the shark. The candidates for President are straight out of the clown car, and three decades of empirical evidence has shown that trickle-down economics does not work. But yet, we are doubling down, exacerbating the situation that has already stalled the economy?

            I can't hope to persuade the True Believers, who have swallowed the Koch Klux Klan's liturgy whole. But if I withdraw from the arena, letting others choose our candidates without my input, I abdicate my responsibility as a citizen.

          • aspacia

            I teach English at the high school level–I influence at least 150 students daily.

            I have never been a fan of trickle down–it never does work because of human greed.

            I doubt that you are a patriotic U.S. citizen by your support of Islamic terrorism, and the violence streaming from the ME against Israel and the USA.

            At the moment I see you as practicing Taquiyya–lying to the infidels to promote Islam.

          • WilliamJamesWard

            Nice exchange aspacia, I often wonder how
            trickle up poverty is going to work for the socialists
            in America if Obama continues in his track of
            economic destruction……….Where the hell does
            the Klu Klux Klan come in at? …………William

  • kafirman

    "mistaken by several orders of magnitude" would mean that the expected "tens of thousands" would have been less than a handful.

  • mrbean

    Put zem all in zee camps, und stoking up zee ovens.

    • aspacia

      Not funny beanhead

      • Herman Caintonette

        Not even close to funny. The way I see it, there are two ways we can respond to the OWS movement: we can address their reasonable concerns, or endure paroxysms like what we saw in Oakland before we finally do address their reasonable concerns.

        • aspacia

          Little Cain, they should be protesting O's economic bailouts! You have zero idea regarding economics.

          • Herman Caintonette

            The only economics you seem to have a grasp on is HOME economics, little lady. OWS gets it, while about all you seem to get is a pedicure.

          • aspacia

            The bait is not tempting complaining cain

  • Asher

    Free Speech and Democracy does not mean rioting and chaos. This violence has diminished the cause of the OWS protestors. They have caused hardship and lack of business to organizations and restaurants and destruction of property. The support of OWS shows Obama's psychological mind, and people are really turned off by his actions, This is not normal for an American President. Guiliani said, that the OWS movement will be Obama's Millstone and he is correct. Guiliani cleaned up the streets of New York and made them safe for every New Yorker. There was no better mayor on 911 or thereafter.

    • scum

      Let's all pause here to remember the phrase 'It's Giuliani Time' as the cops illegally rammed a nightstick up the backside of a local resident. That was the cops' way of cleaning the streets and the colon at the same time.

  • occupy

    American corporations mostly run by filthy whites and half-Jews is the root cause of all evil in the US and the world. The American people are being terrorized on a daily basis by these greedy b********s. So much so the health care system dictates that the health and well being of every American is also in the hands of employer sponsored corporations. Doesn't this sound like a death-trap or a terror like scenario?
    When will the American people wake up???

    • mlcblog

      This is evil, racist and wrong.

      • Ken

        I agree!! The ugly, racist, anarchist truth of the "Occupy" protesters shows through!!

      • Herman Caintonette

        And not representative of the apparent consensus at OWS. It is inclusive to a fault.

    • aspacia

      So you do not want to care for yourself, and want others to care for you because you are too stupid or lazy to make enough money to purchase your own health care? Oh, that is right, others have to pay for you — you are entitled.

      Do you have a job? Have you ever had a real job? I doubt it.

      • scum

        Calm down Aspacia, that post was written by an FPM'er in disguise. It's a blatant attempt to portray the Occupy movement as anti-Semitic.

        • Herman Caintonette

          They let anyone in here — even me. Besides, most prominent Jews are on OWS' side. Doesn't make any sense for OWS to be anti-Semitic, and peer pressure is used to influence the bad apples.

          • Steve

            Of course "most prominent Jews are on the OWS side…". Self destructive behavior based on self hate is typical of PTSD, whether an individual or ethnic group.

          • Herman Caintonette

            As my old college roomie used to say, growing up Jewish is the definition of "traumatic."

      • Herman Caintonette

        As a nation, we have made it our policy to come to the aid of those who are down on their luck, and I don't begrudge paying for it. Tomorrow, it might be you, asp.

        • aspacia

          Be careful little man; the asp bite seriously deforms before its victim dies, and there is no antidote.

          • Herman Caintonette

            There, there, now, little lady! I doubt that you are that hot.

    • Oleg

      Maybe you and Hermie should crack open a few beers, smoke a few joints, snort a few lines, or whatever you do, and organize a nice cozy pogram together? He will deny it here till the cows come home but he was spouting off about the "Zionists" controling the banks, financial industry, and U.S foreign policy on several other threads, so the words may be different but he's singing the same song. But hey, he must be O.K, some of the OWS' and Hermie's best friends are prominent Jews.

      • Herman Caintonette

        And you were extolling the virtues of sexually molesting children.

    • crypticguise

      I just noticed this comment. Occupy, you are a piece of ignorant trash. In the first place there are millions of private corporations of all sizes. These corporations create the wealth of this country and their workers provide the income taxes that support our bloated government.

      You are one of the miseducated, uneducated IGNORANT parasites who have no knowledge of either business, economics or history. You are a slug in the mud.

  • PatriotX

    Poor people are not poor because of rich people.

    Why not, find out how rich people became rich and instead of protesting the fact that they are rich, try some of their methods to obtain wealth.

    Wow, what an idea!!!!!

  • Fred Dawes

    Only the start

  • aspacia

    Why aren't these protestors angry with Obama? Who advocated the billions in hard earned tax dollar to save GM, Wall Street, etc. What about the millions in bonuses paid. Why save one company and not another.

    The protestors are misdirected, or is the government directing them in this direction as a red herring for government corruption. Misdirection because of Holder's misdeeds. Misdirection because of the many hidden administrative actions? Probably.

  • scum

    In this article you can smell the statist Rick Moran begging the state to step in to bail out corporate America once again.

  • BS77

    OWS is washed up. Public support for the anarchists and infantile rioters has plummeted. These clueless idiots are not providing any program for economic recovery. WHy? Because they have none. They just like breaking windows, burning garbage and being obnoxious.

    • Herman Caintonette

      Actually, polls are showing the public is becoming MORE supportive of OWS, as opposed to less. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/m… But hey, modern Republicans never let mere facts get in the way of perfectly good rants, and I see no reason why you should now.

      • BS77

        it's useless arguing with a fool

  • Herman Caintonette

    Evidently, the Thugs in Blue did it again: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8419878 . Another Iraq War veteran — this time, an Army Ranger — nearly killed for the crime of simply wanting to go home.

    Welcome to fascism, people.

  • Steve

    Today in Palo Alto, CA the communist org Peninsula Peace and Justice Center led a "March of Shame on the local banks.

  • moreco2

    The Vet hit on the noggin was kicked out of the Marines and has an anti-military website. I also heard he was hit on the head by an object thrown by a rioter.

  • Seamystic

    Except for a Gender addition, this is a cry of the past and present, by the original Poet.

    This specifically fits the National Debt turmoil forthcoming, WORLD WIDE.
    Check chapter 2 & 3 at: http//mypage.direct.ca/l/lbouchar/


    God, give us men and women! A time like this demands
    Strong minds, great hearts, true faith and ready hands;

    Men and Women, whom the lust of power does not kill;
    Men and Women, whom the spoils of office cannot buy;
    Men and Women, who possess opinions and a will;
    Men and Women, who have honour, who will not lie;

    Men and Women, who can stand before a demagogue
    And damn his treacherous flatteries without winking!
    Men and Women, sun-crowned, who live above the fog
    In public duty, and in private thinking;

    For while the rabble, with their thumb-worn creeds,
    Their large professions and their little deeds,
    Mingle in selfish strife, lo! FREEDOM WEEPS,
    Wrong rules the land and waiting Justice sleeps.

    Josiah Gilbert Holland (1819-1881)

  • Toa

    From what I can see in the photos, the bulk of the violence and destruction is not so much coming from the OWS-ers, but mainly from Oakland's huge population of "minority" gang punks, who are obviously just seizing on the opportunity provided by the Occupiers' stupid antics to practice their slum "culture" of hedonism and violence. The MSM are even more afraid to address this factor than they are to speak frankly about the foolish nihilism and mayhem of the Occupy "movement".

  • crypticguise

    Eventually, but not in the near future when and if America Patriots take to the streets to clear them of this rabble there will be violence. And American Patriots have the guns and will have the will to use them against DESTROYERS of private property.

    Until that time, liberal bastions like Oakland will have to suffer the results of liberal OCCUPATION.

    • WilliamJamesWard

      I know they stay away from me and my crew, the future will be what it will,
      I do not think the grandkids will know of these people who are going to be
      best forgotten………unless they wise up………..some are just dopey dupes
      and get second chances but people like Bill Ayers who have gotten away
      with murder, that type should not see old age………………….William

  • jonathanrapo

    Did FBI Agents Provocateurs Turn Occupy Oakland Into a Gas Chamber?

    City of Oakland Interim Police Chief Howard Jordan told the Associated Press and Reuters that the violence and property damage that occurred near Frank Ogawa Plaza in Downtown Oakland after the general strike last Wednesday was caused by “anarchists and provocateurs.”

    At approximately 12:30 AM last Thursday morning, after several days of volunteering in the kitchen at Occupy Oakland, I suddenly found myself in the middle of a forward area that was eerily similar to what I experienced in Bethlehem in 2001 during Israel's Operation Safe House.

    However, this was not the West Bank.

    It was the center of the City of Oakland in the United States of America.

    Furthermore, this was not an armed conflict between the Israeli military and the Tanzim militia of the Fatah faction of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

    This was an armed conflict between the local city police officers and the local sheriff's deputies of Northern California and, quite possibly, paid FBI agents provocateurs who were sent in to infiltrate Occupy Oakland, commit violence and damage property in order to give the police a pretext for a use of force in the form of chemical weapons, rubber bullets and flash-bang grenades.

    As the police officers and sheriff's deputies were preparing to turn Frank Ogawa Plaza into a gas chamber, I observed four individuals with black bandanas covering their faces at the north end of the Frank Ogawa Plaza.

    One of the individuals had a 2 inch by 2 inch piece of lumber at her side that was approximately 3 feet (1 meter) in length.

    I went up to her and said, “Nice stick. What are you going to do? Hit the police in order to give them a pretext to turn Frank Ogawa Plaza into a gas chamber? How much does the FBI pay you?”

    She responded by saying, “Get the f—k out of my face!” as she raised the 2 by 2 above her head and tried to strike me with it.

    I took off running as I was unarmed and was not able to defend myself against an assault with a deadly weapon.

    She proceeded to chase me across the north end of the plaza.

    She then threw the 2 by 2 at me, striking me in the buttocks.

    I narrowly escaped serious injury.

    Based on her reaction, I don't think that any reasonable person can rule out the possibility that this individual was in fact a paid FBI agent provocateur.

    Furthermore, as I mentioned before, Police Chief Jordan told the Associated Press and Reuters that the violence was caused by “anarchists and provocateurs.”

    Ironically, a couple of months ago “Mother Jones” magazine published an article on FBI infiltration of the anarchist movement.

    The article was commissioned by Lowell Bergman, a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist who is on the faculty of the Graduate School of Journalism at the University of California at Berkeley, as part of a yearlong investigation into FBI surveillance and entrapment of Muslim-Americans and Americans who are part of the anarchist movement.

    Bergman, who worked with my father, Roger Dale Rapoport, at “Ramparts” magazine in San Francisco during the 1960s, was portrayed by actor Al Pacino in the Michael Mann film “The Insider.”

    As a Jew whose family came to America fleeing the Holocaust, I cannot and will not live in a country where Occupy Oakland, a gathering place for what the FBI calls “subversives,” is turned into a gas chamber.

    Furthermore, it is my understanding that the gas used after the general strike on Wednesday may have been CS gas which possibly contained added psychotropic agents.

    CS gas is banned from military use under international agreements.

    If CS gas is what was used in and around Frank Ogawa Plaza after the general strike on Wednesday, this is totally unacceptable to me.

    The fact that any type of chemical weapon that is euphemistically termed “tear gas” is being used on Occupy Oakland in response to the actions of a small group of “anarchists and provocateurs,” as Police Chief Jordan called them, is totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct.

    I will be leaving the United States of America in the near future and I will not return to this fascist cesspool until the government stops turning gathering places for what the FBI calls “subversives” into gas chambers.

    Most of my Jewish family who stayed behind in Europe were gassed to death.

    For reasons that I think I can leave unstated, I cannot and will not tolerate a society in which the government deliberately turns a public gathering place filled with hundreds of men, women and children into a de facto open air gas chamber.

    I voted for Obama.

    I voted for change and this is what I got.

    It is now time for me to vote with my feet.


  • Hercules

    Jerry Rubin, 60s radical: "Satisfy our demands and we go twelve more. All we want from these meetings are demands that the Establishment can never satisfy…Goals are irrelevant. The tactics, the actions are critical." In a few sentences he has described what Occupy Wall Street is all about.

    These are the 60's radicals reincarnated as the leftist zombie army of today. They are against everything and for nothing. Their goal is destruction and anarchy, to extirpate the 'evil' capitalist system. Like the Bolsheviks they have no idea what follows violent and chaotic revolution and like the French Revolution's Jacobins they want to restore the guillotine and sever some heads.

  • jonathanrapo

    Attempted Murder of Occupy Oakland Journalist Jonathan Dale Rapoport

    I was beaten into a blackout/coma. I was not robbed of any of my possessions.

    On the evening of Saturday November 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM I went to Mama Buzz Cafe on Telegraph Avenue in Oakland for the scheduled workshop of the media group from Occupy Oakland.

    I asked a few questions to the media group about how to get in touch with the media group when I have relevant information about Occupy Oakland and then went outside in the front of the cafe and had a drink while chatting with another patron of this cafe.

    Eventually, I went inside and ordered a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale beer.

    I was drinking my beer in the semi-enclosed garden area at the back of the cafe.

    The next thing I remember I woke up covered in blood from head to toe and was being asked to remain still while I underwent a CT scan of my head and brain.

    I was at the Summit Campus of Alta Bates Summit Medical Center (ABSMC) in Oakland.

    I was taken to a shower to wash off the blood and then had around two dozen staples inserted into the top of my skull to close the lacerations I had sustained.

    The ABSMC clinicians neglected to call the police in blatent, willfull and malicious violation of California state laws which designate medical professionals as “mandated reporters” if there is any suspicion that a patient may be the victim of a crime.

    I had to wait until I returned home to contact the police.

    The medical records from ABSMC claim that I was brought into the emergency room by ambulance after suffering a fall.

    Texas-based Paramedics Plus, which operates the first response paramedic ambulances in Oakland, has been unable to provide me with a copy of the “run report” from when I was picked up, loaded into the ambulance and taken to the emergency room.

    I have been trying all day to get the staff at their headquarters in Texas to get me a copy of the “run report” and medical records and their staff have been unable to complete this simple task.

    In addition, the Oakland Police Department has been unable to provide me with a police report or put me in touch with the detectives and/or inspectors who are, or at least should be, investigating this attempted murder.

    I did obtain my medical records from ABSMC and the clinicians farcically claim that the injuries to my head/skull occurred after I suffered from a fall.

    I will be posting all of my medical records online as soon as I get a complete set of copies.

    In the meantime, I will hope and pray that I will recover fully from my injuries.


  • jonathanrapo

    Photos of head injuries from attempted murder of journalist Jonathan Dale Rapoport.

    These photographs show the severe head injuries from the attempted murder of freelance journalist Jonathan Dale Rapoport while he was covering Occupy Oakland on Saturday, November 26, 2011. The Oakland Police Department claims that these injuries are the result of a fall and refuses to investigate further. Alta Bates Summit Medical Center discharged Jonathan Dale Rapoport from the emergency room without reporting this attempted murder to the police. These medical professionals shamefully reneged on their obligation to act as “mandated reporters” whenever a patient has been a victim of crime. Jonathan Dale Rapoport is the son of Roger Dale Rapoport, who is California Governor Jerry Brown's biographer. Jonathan Dale Rapoport hereby demands that California Governor Jerry Brown immediately order an impartial and comprehensive investigation into this attempted murder.

  • Brain

    For any OWS reading these comments I know you are frustrated with the way things may be going for you. My only advice would be to try and better your situation through education or another career. Remember, being arrested for Civil Disobedience does not look good on a resume.

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