Who Threw Israel Under the Bus?

American-Israeli journalist Arlene Kushner maintains a blog in which she discusses political, diplomatic and military issues affecting Israel: www.arlenefromisrael.info. She currently also serves in a consultant capacity with the Center for Near East Policy Research.


On October 23, the profoundly anti-Israel New York Times ran an op-ed by Ephraim Halevy – former head of Israel’s Mosad and national security advisor to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – titled “Who Threw Israel Under the Bus?”

His thesis is that it has always been Republicans who have been bad for Israel; and he provides examples of how this has been the case.

I do not presume to know what motivated Halevy to write this badly biased piece, but what seems clear is that it requires a response, especially in the week before election day, when everything has become grist for the campaign mill.

The fact that three named Republicans were allegedly problematic for Israel says less than nothing about whether Romney would be, and certainly does not vindicate Obama.

One of the “problematic” Republicans Halevy fingers is Obama’s predecessor, George W. Bush. Halevy’s attempt to assess Obama by looking at Bush’s record, rather than Obama’s, is rather foolish: Bush is bad, so ipso facto Obama is good.

In a few instances, however, we can learn by looking at Bush’s positions and then how Obama subsequently acted.  These instances show that Bush was far more pro-Israel than Obama, no matter what Halevy claims:

On April 14, 2004, when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was in the midst of his plans for a disengagement from Gaza, he and President Bush exchanged letters. The letter from Bush said in part:

In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli population centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949.

This was important on at least two counts. First, it spoke about armistice lines of 1949 – which is what is actually meant when people today refer to the “1967 borders.”  There were no borders, only temporary armistice lines – and Bush was acknowledging this historical fact with accuracy.

What is more, he was saying that Israel would not be expected to return to those armistice lines because of new realities on the ground.  This was an acknowledgement that in a final settlement with the Palestinian Arabs, were it to happen, major settlement blocs would be retained by Israel.

The exchange of letters that took place between Bush and Sharon (who spelled out plans for the disengagement in his) is known as a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) – an executive agreement not ratified by Congress.  It carries less weight than a treaty that is ratified, but is still broadly understood to reflect the authority of the executive office.

Bush’s letter, however, was totally rejected by Obama as being without import. Obama refers to the armistice line as the “1967 border” (an historical inaccuracy that tilts to the Palestinian Arabs), and has declared repeatedly that Israel must return to this line in a final settlement.

This is particularly startling because – even beyond the Memorandum of Understanding – there is considerable precedent for earlier US presidents acknowledging that Israel cannot be asked to return to that armistice line.  Among them, Republicans Nixon and Reagan.

Quite simply, Obama’s position is anti-Israel.

While he claims to be in support of security for Israel, he pumps for a resolution of negotiations that would push Israel behind a border that is not defensible.  The left-wing Abba Eban called this line “Auschwitz borders.” They would render Israel nine miles narrow at one point, and vulnerable to being over-run by enemies from the east.  But Obama says Israel must do this.  It is not a coincidence that what he has declared is exactly what the PA demands.  He has promoted their position shamelessly.

And there is more.  No president before Obama ever demanded a full freeze on Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria as a precondition for negotiations. The Palestinian Arabs themselves never demanded this – they sat with Israel repeatedly while building in settlements was taking place.  Abbas started demanding this because Obama set it as a precondition.  How could Abbas demand less?

Elliott Abrams, who handled Middle East affairs at the (US) National Security Council from 2001 to 2009, has written that Bush agreed to “natural growth” in the settlements, within existing settlement lines.  But Obama would not agree to even this.  The position he demanded meant deprivation to Israeli citizens living in those settlements, who were being told they couldn’t build a new school for their children, or a new clinic or even a new room on a house for a new baby.

Whatever disagreements there have been between various presidents and Israel, until the Obama administration there has always been an implied sense of a bond between America and Israel because of shared values, goals and destiny. Obama broke with this. He let it be known that it was a good thing for there to be “daylight” between Israel and the US.  After a meeting Obama had in 2009 with Jewish leaders, Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, reported that Obama had said:

Look at the past eight years [referring to the George W. Bush administration]… During those eight years, there was no space between us and Israel, and what did we get from that? When there is no daylight, Israel just sits on the sidelines, and that erodes our credibility with the Arab states.

“Credibility with the Arab states.” Never has there been a president who has so courted the Islamic world.  This is at the heart of the matter.  It’s impossible to attempt to secure the approval of various Islamic and Arab states and to also be pro-Israel.  Obama knew this and made his choice, even though he pretends otherwise during this election season when Jewish votes count.

Remember that for his June 2009 speech to the Muslim world in Cairo University, a Muslim Brotherhood hotbed, he specifically invited members of the Muslim Brotherhood, which seeks to destroy Israel.  This is not something a friend of Israel would have done.  This was the beginning of US positions that put the Brotherhood in power in Egypt.  During that speech he already called for a “stop” to settlements, and actually equated the “suffering of the Palestinian people in pursuit of a homeland” with the horrors of the Holocaust.

As well, after his inauguration, some four months previous, the very first international “leader” he called was Mahmoud Abbas of the PA. A rather pointed statement.

An observation I made about Obama when he was still a candidate provided broad hints as to what he was:

He came here to Israel when he was campaigning. There had been a terror attack just blocks from the hotel where he was staying; it occurred roughly about the time he arrived.  He knew about it. He had to know about it. Then he went to Sderot, which is near the border with Gaza, and he spoke about how the people there suffer because of rocket attacks.  He knew, and he was courting Jews with his sympathetic words.

From Israel, he went to Germany for a major speech, which included a discussion of terrorism in the world and how it must be combated.  He listed countries struggling with this – the UK, Spain, etc. etc.  But he left out Israel.

Damn, I thought then. This is not an oversight. He just came from Israel, he just saw for himself.  He cannot have forgotten. It would have added powerful rhetoric to his speech, had he talked about what he had just seen first hand. But he did not want to appear sympathetic to Israel before the world.

I called it then, and I have not been wrong about him. In truth, he has been far worse than I had feared.  Who would have imagined, four years ago, that President Obama would establish the Global Counterterrorism Forum in 2011, and then, in June of this year, actively block participation by Israel – the world’s greatest expert on terrorism – when the Forum had its first meeting in Istanbul?

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  • objectivefactsmatter

    “Credibility with the Arab states.”

    Just remember the phrase, "religious feelings" and you'll know where Obama's going.

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      the author of the article has no facts to support his argument and the facts say Obama is big for Israel.

      If Obama was against Israel why record aid, record level of US Troops in Tel Aviv training? Why protect Israel in the UN?

      Why has he not pushed Israel to peace? He did the required bs peace push. And why all the Israeli leadership support for him?

      Please give me a fact where he is against Israel?

      • http://www.facebook.com/dionissis.mitropoulos Dionissis Mitropoulos

        Scot Shabot

        "Please give me a fact where he is against Israel"?

        Redundant as it may be, i copy/paste the comment i left a little before you left yours:

        Isn't Obama's refusal to set a clear red line on Iran's nuclear program the proof that this President is dangerous for Israel's existence?

        • Kufar Dawg

          The zero insisted Israel return to pre-1967 borders, borders which are indefensible. He insists Israel give up land won by combat, combat initiated by muslo-fascists in every case.

          • Vivian Gelberman

            1, Obama said “ADJUSTED WITH LAND SWAPS”! in his famous pre-1967 borders sentence. (transcript anyone?) Can’t land swaps be any size or shape? If not, what does the phrase mean? Why has this omission continually been made by all who have proof that Obama is the most anti-Israel president in history? Excluding such words is rewriting history, which never helps.

            2. Obama is not the first president to value credibility with the Arabs. Efraim Halevy, director of the Mossad from 1998-2002 knows what he’s talking about no matter what newspapers are willing to print it. Re Arab courting, down by the ranch, W and prince Saudi Arabia / family had frighteningly deep oil ties. That’s why Bin Laden’s family was the only plane allowed out of the country on 9/12/2001, even though they were crucial leads on Osama.

            3. Ms. Kushner, of course you are comparing presidents, as we all do. I concede that freezing the settlements was about credibility with the Arabs. I also wonder if that is related to a coalition of Arab states. That has been important for the U.S. before. Anyway, given the history Halevy writes about in “Who Threw Israel Under the Bus”?, how does that make Obama the most anti-Israel of presidents? The settlements freeze may or may not not end up being a condition for future negotiations. How long is a freeze ? Compared to forcing Israel not to retaliate in 1991, withholding $10 billion in loan guarantees, forcing the Road Map….

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "1, Obama said "ADJUSTED WITH LAND SWAPS"! in his famous pre-1967 borders sentence. (transcript anyone?) Can't land swaps be any size or shape?"

            Maybe to a liberal, but any attorney or politician understands that Obama advanced the PA need to negotiate to that point, essentially saying that we should all forget about who caused all of the violence since 1967 and just pretend like we have no way to point to fault for any of it. Just pretend the war never happened.

            Sorry. Too much blood and treasure spilled for that, not to mention their ongoing rhetoric that makes it absolutely, blatantly obvious that to win such concessions would simply be a tactical gain towards their totalitarian ends.

            In short, the statement is driven by insanity or blind hatred.

            The Palestinians are always trying to blindside the Western politicians and public with ridiculous "do over" requests when their violence gets them in trouble. It's like giving a cookie to a child after it destroys your kitchen. We gave out lots of "cookies" in the past and it has to stop.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "2. Obama is not the first president to value credibility with the Arabs. Efraim Halevy, director of the Mossad from 1998-2002 knows what he's talking about no matter what newspapers are willing to print it. Re Arab courting, down by the ranch, W and prince Saudi Arabia / family had frighteningly deep oil ties. That's why Bin Laden's family was the only plane allowed out of the country on 9/12/2001, even though they were crucial leads on Osama."

            Obviously anyone who knows anything about the oil supply knows that we need "credibility" but not through appeasement. Occasional compromise is acceptable, but if your point is that all of the presidents compromise too much, that I'll agree with.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "3. Ms. Kushner, of course you are comparing presidents, as we all do. I concede that freezing the settlements was about credibility with the Arabs. I also wonder if that is related to a coalition of Arab states. That has been important for the U.S. before. "

            There's no wonder at all. Saudi Arabia is constantly on the private line to the Whitehouse with every president since Roosevelt. The Saudis are the most important player in the OPEC coalition. They are also a huge player in the OIC "coalition" of blackmail and conspiracy.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "Who Threw Israel Under the Bus"?, how does that make Obama the most anti-Israel of presidents? The settlements freeze may or may not not end up being a condition for future negotiations. How long is a freeze ? Compared to forcing Israel not to retaliate in 1991, withholding $10 billion in loan guarantees, forcing the Road Map…."

            Obama is the first president that I am aware of other than Carter who presumed that there is no fault to the war. It just happened according to them, or if you look closely, they will tend to offer up excuses that the Islamic imperialists can use to actually blame the victim; Israel.

            Calling Israel a colony or colonial power is beyond absurd, unless facts don't matter.

            You're right that virtually every president has put unfair pressure on Israel in light of the need for steady supplies of oil from unreasonable sovereigns, even though those sovereigns owe us everything. The generations that built those states forget to teach their descendants the salient history. Our schools have allowed a lot of stupid students to imagine that they know how to think effectively when they clearly don't.

      • Omar

        How about the fact that only 4% of Israelis view the current U.S. presidential administration favorably.

        • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

          really what do you base your bs on? every day 24/7 Predators are hunting Moslem terrorists. When the world tries to censure Israel in the UN Obama stops it. Obama has provided more military aid, (Iron Domes) & faster than any prior US President to Israel.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Do you cut and paste your own silly comments, or are you not even the author of these silly statements?

        • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

          who cares they don't vote. not sure Bibbi would win an election by American Jews. So what is your point?

      • http://www.facebook.com/riffraff11 Raymond Harper

        Obama is a muslum and that very fact is all the evidence anyone should need

        • http://www.facebook.com/riffraff11 Raymond Harper

          Additionally I have never heard Obama publically denounce the rocket attacks that happen daily

        • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

          Raymond Rev Wright would disagree with you!

          You personify the anti-Obama side which is filled with bigots,
          Who hate & don't accept the facts!

          • http://www.facebook.com/roger.cole.756 Roger Cole

            Oh yes, anyone who is hostile to this anti-American president is a bigot or a racist, therefore no need to think any further!

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "Oh yes, anyone who is hostile to this anti-American president is a bigot or a racist, therefore no need to think any further!"

            That's the standard formula to follow once you've sipped enough off their Kool-Aid.

          • Kufar Dawg

            Rev. Wright is a racist, anti-semitic POS, who cares what he has to say about anything? The fact you would appeal to him says a lot about your character.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "Raymond Rev Wright would disagree with you!"

            Only when he's lying. Actually, Rev Wright admitted that Obama did not reject Islam and did not have a clear conversion story. He practically paved the way to confirm that it was about politics. There's plenty more evidence from the start of Obama's life through today, but don't let the facts interfere with your opinions. I'm sure we wouldn't be arguing if they ever did.

            You're not well-informed at all. Do a little research on what Wright actually said before paraphrasing him or speaking about his views.

        • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

          Raymond you are ignorant at best.

          • Drakken

            Look in the mirror shortbus because your obvious lack of facts and more on the reliance on feelings really does sum up you leftists .

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Who writes these lines for you?

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "the author of the article has no facts to support his argument"

        Wrong:

        Facts: "On April 14, 2004, when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was in the midst of his plans for a disengagement from Gaza, he and President Bush exchanged letters. The letter from Bush said in part:

        In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli population centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949.

        This was important on at least two counts. First, it spoke about armistice lines of 1949 – which is what is actually meant when people today refer to the “1967 borders.” There were no borders, only temporary armistice lines – and Bush was acknowledging this historical fact with accuracy."

        Facts about Obama:

        "Obama knew this and made his choice, even though he pretends otherwise during this election season when Jewish votes count.

        Remember that for his June 2009 speech to the Muslim world in Cairo University, a Muslim Brotherhood hotbed, he specifically invited members of the Muslim Brotherhood, which seeks to destroy Israel. This is not something a friend of Israel would have done. This was the beginning of US positions that put the Brotherhood in power in Egypt. During that speech he already called for a “stop” to settlements, and actually equated the “suffering of the Palestinian people in pursuit of a homeland” with the horrors of the Holocaust.

        As well, after his inauguration, some four months previous, the very first international “leader” he called was Mahmoud Abbas of the PA. A rather pointed statement."

        Those are examples of facts. I don't expect to help your reading comprehension, but rather to prove that you don't know what you're talking about. If it's over your head, stop blaming others. It just might be you, and you could help yourself by seeing that.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    "From Israel, he went to Germany for a major speech, which included a discussion of terrorism in the world and how it must be combated. He listed countries struggling with this – the UK, Spain, etc. etc. But he left out Israel."

    He clearly (and I mean that literally) believes that whatever Palestinians do in Israel is justified. Period.

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      really what do you base your bs on? every day 24/7 Predators are hunting Moslem terrorists. When the world tries to censure Israel in the UN Obama stops it. Obama has provided more military aid, (Iron Domes) & faster than any prior US President to Israel.

      I think most of the Israeli and Jewish anit-Obama sentiment is just bigotry disguised as politics!

      • Kufar Dawg

        THe zero has said nothing about the palesimians continuing rocket attacks on Israel, this despite the fact over TEN THOUSAND rocket and mortar rounds have been fired by palesimians into Israel, unilaterally and without provocation, since 2008.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          "THe zero has said nothing about the palesimians continuing rocket attacks on Israel, this despite the fact over TEN THOUSAND rocket and mortar rounds have been fired by palesimians into Israel, unilaterally and without provocation, since 2008."

          Not true, he made excuses for them.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "really what do you base your bs on?"

        Every statement and action from Obama is an opportunity to promote the lie that the Palestinians have legitimate claims in Israel, and he promotes the idea that their terror campaigns are about "grievances" which all trace back to lies. All of them.

        "every day 24/7 Predators are hunting Moslem terrorists."

        You conflate Moslem with Palestinian and still don't get it? You must be a born collectivist.

        "When the world tries to censure Israel in the UN Obama stops it."

        When the Organisation for Islamic Cooperation bullies the UN? Sure, then Obama is forced to play a middle ground that appeases Islamic supremacists who are waiting for his second term's increased flexibility. Do you understand that political rhetoric is some times used to deceive?

        Stupid dupe.

        "I think most of the Israeli and Jewish anit-Obama sentiment is just bigotry disguised as politics!"

        Of course you do. That's what you've been fed. You sucked it all down with criticism reserved only for the enemies identified for you by your masters.

        Not that it matters, but I have nothing to do with Israel or Jews directly except that I'm sick of liberal dupes enabling Islamic supremacists.

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      again another emotional fact. so Mitt came to Israel to raise $ not to commune with Israel and then to Poland, not exactly a great friend of Israel.

      and like many you are seduced by the media and the PR bull….! Look at the facts more military aid then any US President and got it to Israel faster.

      Why does Defense Minister Barack & Deputy PM say cooperation under Obama is extraordinary & never better with the US military and intelligence

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "Why does Defense Minister Barack & Deputy PM say cooperation under Obama is extraordinary & never better with the US military and intelligence"

        Scott, my answer to you is in the mail along with the check for the money I owe you. OK? Get it? People lie for various reasons. Perhaps the world is a little too complex for you to understand. Please don't vote until you solve some of those complex problems that seem to be above your understanding.

  • Mary Sue

    This makes me think back to in the last debate, "Romney is going to [increase spending] that the military didn't ask for" but now he's giving things to Abbas and the Palestinians that THEY didn't even ask for!

  • Mary Sue

    ok I'm laughing so hard right now…how can you possibly believe this? Obama is throwing Israel under the bus and you think the Zionists are OK with this?

    BTW your "truth" doesn't exist, clicking the link only goes to the main youtube page. Whoever you've been listening to is full of it and you should stop listening to them because they are wrong. Obama is cozying up to the hereditors of the same people that cozy'd up to HITLER and gave Hitler an entire battalion of Bosnian Muslims at his command.

    Trust me I know full well the stories of the alleged "Ebbil J00ish bankers" and they're all hogwash. The real Evil (atheist) Banker is George Soros, focus on him, not the phantoms of the Bilderbergers, the CFR, or the Trilateral Commission. That's all hogwash. Soros happily funds Obama. Soros is a PROBLEM. But a stereotypical "evil j00ish banker"? Not in this lifetime. The problem is you're listening to bald faced liars. If you saw both sides of the story…

    • UCSPanther

      There's no reasoning with a clown who draws all his world view from the successors to Die Sturmer.

      The only thing that can be done with them is to treat them with mockery and contempt.

      • Mary Sue

        actually I was thinking he was getting it from Calypso Louie Farrakhan or something like that.

        • Neils60

          Calypso Louie ("Judaism is a gutter religion") and Die Sturmer, not very much different from each other, with the only exception being that Calypso Louie was an honoree of the Rev. Wright.

          • Mary Sue

            yup. Though Calypso Louie went for the Islamist bent rather than the typical Liberation Theology claptrap.

            We live in a world, where the Revvvvrend Jesse Jackson can refer to New York as "hymietown" and nobody says anything. Heck, if he said it today he'd probably get a medal from CAIR.

    • Ghostwriter

      "This comment has been deleted by the administrator."

      This one must have been REALLY bad for the administrator to eliminate it. But,like Schlomotion,DeShawn is a Jew hater of the worst order. I'm surprised either of them DON'T get their rancid comments deleted more often.

      • Mary Sue

        I remember what it said and it was pretty bad, though I do think it was a shame it was deleted. Venom like that needs to see the light of day, that it may be ridiculed and shown to be false.

      • Mary Sue

        basically it was about how the "jews who run the world run obama" and nonsense regarding that.

  • pierce

    This whole scenario comes down to, " DO YOU TRUST BO TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR ISRAEL?"
    I DO NOT.

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      no it should come down to facts, but probably you are prejudice.

      • Kufar Dawg

        Do your statements make more sense in Urdu? Or Arabic?

  • owen

    Romney Ryan 2012 to restore America, to its former greatness, and to undo the damage that obama and his pet clown biden have done, please remember how Important your vote is, we must rid our country, of the community organizer

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      yes lets elect someone who won't release his tax returns, picked a VP who doesn't believe in separation of Church & State, (a founding American principle), wants to eliminate abortion and start another war with Iraq and told GM to die!

      • Western Canadian

        This post alone renders you commenting on anyone else’s ignorance to be an utter joke. Sep of church and state? Your ignorance of american history and constitution, is typical of your ignorance in general. Troll.

      • Kufar Dawg

        Who said: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Then again you did object to "separation of Church and State" not mosque and state.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dionissis.mitropoulos Dionissis Mitropoulos

    Isn't Obama's refusal to set a clear red line on Iran's nuclear program the proof that this President is dangerous for Israel's existence?

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      no actually it is smart why box yourself in and dance to Bibbi's tune. Did JFK do that with the Cuban Missile Crisis?

      • http://www.facebook.com/dionissis.mitropoulos Dionissis Mitropoulos

        Scott Shabot

        "no actually it is smart why box yourself in and dance to Bibbi's tune. Did JFK do that with the Cuban Missile Crisis"?

        Bibi's tune is singing for the survival of Israel.

        If Obama does not wish to dance to this tune, then he is jeopardizing the existence of Israel.

        As to to whether this is a smart choice for America, as you claim, just remember your words when the mullahs pass a bomb to terrorists and America experiences a second 9/11, with millions instead of thousands of casualties this time.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "no actually it is smart why box yourself in and dance to Bibbi's tune. Did JFK do that with the Cuban Missile Crisis?"

        You have got to be the biggest idiot in recent memory.

        We should have an open topic page to discuss things like this. Who is the biggest moron of October?

        Did JFK draw a "red line" during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Are you contending yes or no?

  • guest

    Remember when he said "look what I have to put up with" to some stupid arab about Israel.

    Seems the Islam and the muzz can't be trusted even if you are the great and mighty "O"

    But he is as treacherous as they are. Like first cousins married to each other.

    • Neils60

      I believe that President Obama was speaking to former French President Sarkozy regarding Bibi Netanyahu and didn't realize that his microphone was still "live". The president complained that he had to deal with Bibi every day.

      • Mary Sue

        and he probably has to deal with Bibi every day because he keeps throwing Bibi under the bus!

  • http://www.facebook.com/riffraff11 Raymond Harper

    I remember before Obama came to power al the political pundits were saying Iran would have a nuclear device in a couple of years! Obama has not stopped it from happening and will not stop it from happening because they already have a nuclear device!

  • Schlomotion

    Compare: In Israel every new building is an "illegal settlement." In Gaza, every new building is a "bunker." Ms. Kushner is trying to incite hatred against the New York Times and gain special favor for her side of the "no building allowed" sob story, and have us retain our hatred for the Palestinian side of the "no building allowed" sob story. I am at a loss to understand why Americans wouldn't just ignore Israel and keep reading the Times.

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      we have a different view on Israel and the West Bank, sorry, but it is all BS, since Israel will do what it wants.

      Do you remember when Bush Sr. held up funding for housing of Russian immigrants? Why trust the GOP?

    • maherI

      Gaza is not an enclave Smucklotion!
      The israelis got what they deserve: in 1967 life expectation in Gaza was 42 yrs., 73 yrs in 2005 when they left (WHO statistics).

    • Ghostwriter

      Just the fact Israel exists AT ALL,makes you cry,Schlockmotion.

      • Schlomotion

        No, just the fact that it sees fit to exist in more than one country.

        • Mary Sue

          except that it doesn't.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          "just the fact that it sees fit to exist in more than one country"

          Please list them.

          Thanks

          • Schlomotion

            Sure.

            United States
            France
            Canada
            Germany
            England

            Iceland is remarkably bereft of any Zionist enclave.

            If you are an Abe Foxman, you are particularly fixated on the stability of Zionist enclaves in Austria, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain and the United Kingdom.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "Sure.
            United States
            France
            Canada
            Germany
            England "

            Oh, ok. I get it. Occupy has a different meaning to you than to others. Maybe if we can all agree on a single system of justice, we can have global citizenship and an end to your kind of "occupation." Not bloody likely, but liberals love that dream…

          • Schlomotion

            I think it's funny that you use a slur against me that is a euphemism for "Jews." Liberals. Historically, that word means "Jewish soci.alists." You seem to be using it also to mean Fabians. But what I said was simple. I said that I don't see why people should tolerate hostile separatist enclaves in their own countries that cleave to a foreign, Jewish homeland. Why isn't e pluribus unum good enough for them?

    • Drakken

      Here I'll make this really simple for a muzzy loving scumbag like you, FK the palis and may they perish!

    • Kufar Dawg

      In your diatribes against Israel and defense of palesimians I note you never have much to say about the charter of Hamas, which specifically cites one of the "authenticated" verses of the holy hadeeth of islam that calls for the extermination of Jews.

      • Schlomotion

        Why would I say anything to please you? You are an anonymous bigot. Look. You called Palestinians simians. You are a first order racist.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "In your diatribes against Israel and defense of palesimians I note you never have much to say about the charter of Hamas, which specifically cites one of the "authenticated" verses of the holy hadeeth of islam that calls for the extermination of Jews."

        If any Jew ever said anything hostile, that's morally equal to Hamas or any other agent who has an active plan to rule the world with Sharia or any totalitarian ideology. That's how moral equivalent ideology operates. You don't have any right to criticize anyone because flaws can be mentioned that superficially draw attention to the imperfections of your argument or the side you defend.

        With such a mentality, discourse is pointless. However, third-parties still read what we write so it's worth taking the questions seriously. Which means of course that you are correct and this is a big concern that no apologist has ever successfully explained.

    • objectivefactsmatter

      "I am at a loss to understand why Americans wouldn't just ignore Israel and keep reading the Times."

      It's quite simple; because objective facts matter, as I constantly remind you. When someone makes a claim, it truly matters whether it's true or false. That is what all of your analysis fails to factor.

      • Schlomotion

        Translation: The New York Times must go under the bus for defying Israel.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          "Translation: The New York Times must go under the bus for defying Israel."

          Translating in to your language, I suppose I can't be surprised. I just don't see how refuting published articles can be equated with being run over by very large vehicles. But as you say, it's just a translation and when facts don't matter, you focus entirely on your feelings and can get renderings as you indicated.

          • Schlomotion

            The other day when you tried all your psychological rundowns, you forgot to use this one. You forgot to claim that you are the factual reasoner and I am the emotional reasoner. I am glad you got around to using that technique. Incidentally, since none of this is a scientific study, your Myers-Briggs high ground is not a high ground.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            "The other day when you tried all your psychological rundowns, you forgot to use this one. You forgot to claim that you are the factual reasoner and I am the emotional reasoner."

            Psychology has little to do with science, but it can generate suggestions that reasonable people can occasionally find helpful. It's more like a last resort for people who ignore facts. You want to help them understand their own fallacies.

            "I am glad you got around to using that technique."

            I hope you found it helpful, in the future if not already.

            "Incidentally, since none of this is a scientific study, your Myers-Briggs high ground is not a high ground."

            Straw man argument. I merely make suggestions after the facts are discussed and ignored. Your mileage may vary.

          • Schlomotion

            It was helpful. I am curious just how many rundowns you actually know. I counted around 15 so far.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            " I counted around 15 so far."

            Probably a lot more than that, but I never had any use to count or organize them. Like I said, they're just trivial suggestions that some people find useful and no harm is done in considering them.

  • clarespark

    Obama made it clear in his second book that he viewed the Arab-Israeli conflict through the eyes of moral equivalence. That is a gross rewriting of history, and we are living in an Orwellian world right now. In Obama's view of internationalism, we pretend that there are no American national interests to protect. I wrote about this dangerous type of Doublethink here: http://clarespark.com/2012/10/27/melville-orwell-…. "Melville, Orwell, Doublethink."

    • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

      wow, just doesn't match the reality of Predators flying 24/7 killing Muslim terrorists.

      How do you explain that?

      • clarespark

        Perhaps drone attacks on individuals constitutes an appropriate policy for you, Mr. Shabot, but to those of us who are not ideologues, it is no substitute for a coherent foreign policy that protects American interests.

      • Kufar Dawg

        "flying 24/7 killing muslim terrorists". Somehow I think your idea that Predators are flying 24/7 is
        nothing but BS.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "wow, just doesn't match the reality of Predators flying 24/7 killing Muslim terrorists. How do you explain that?"

        The current president knows about niche marketing and has to compromise between letting Islamic supremacists doing absolutely anything they want anywhere in the world and keeping up a somewhat plausible facade about the war on…whatever. He can't out himself totally you idi0t.

  • watsa46

    Any one with a minimum of knowledge is aware of 2 facts: BHO ideological fathers are Muslim & communist. This cannot be denied since this what is written in his books. Some of his close friends are antisemites (i.e., E. Said) and revolutionaries tugs (i.e., Ayers).
    The rest is simple deduction. No need to bloviate anymore.

    • objectivefactsmatter

      Many or even most voters see no problem with this…which of course sucks for us.

  • linda.

    this might be a bit off topic but we can count on obummer to support musslim nations and send billions their way while at the same time cutting out veterans benifits and raising the cost of tricare obummer is out to screw americans and only help muslims and blacks
    we live in a world where our houses have been devalued and we cant afford to drive to fn work because of gas cost and instead of going after fraud and abuse we raise the taxes on our workers? while illegals and others are breeding like rats overruning our schools and demanding free private schooling because our pubhlic schools are a mess

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.shabot Scott Shabot

    well Linda, you got your facts wrong. W cut Veteran benefits while letting the economy crash and our schools crumble. Since the Camp David accord with Egypt the US has given aid to Egypt, do you have a problem with that or would you prefer we tell the Arabs to turn to Russia & China? Didn't think so.

    • Mary Sue

      i hasten to remind you:

      -Schools are funded via local property taxes
      -The schools that are crumbling are ALL in Eternal Local Democrat Land and have been for the past 50 or so years.
      -This makes Republicans responsible, HOW, exactly?

    • Mary Sue

      btw the crashing economy wasn't bush it was clinton with teh whole freddy mack fanny mae thing. Which ALSO was a brainchild of Sen. Chris Dodd and Rep. Barney Frank, both the liberalest of Democrats, forcingbanks under penalty to loan money to people who had no prayer of paying any of it back.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        "btw the crashing economy wasn't bush it was clinton with teh whole freddy mack fanny mae thing."

        OMG, what are you doing bringing in such raw facts to the discussion? There's no way this fool can even understand what you're contending, never mind actually coming over to accept that "W" didn't "wreck everything," because the Democrats said so.

  • maher

    « Kill the Jews! » Genocidal Islamonazis Jew-haters say it, do it and dream about it. I wonder what are “Mohamed DeShawn” dreams looking like?

    • Drakken

      His dreams are to become nightmares for him and his muslim ilk.

  • Marty

    To suggest that the current administration isn't the most anti-semitic in history is to simply be delusional. The so-called Jewish office holders in the administration are modern day kapos (and we know what ultimately happened to them). It's interesting to note that the only thing Israelis and arabs have in common is their complete distrust of obama and clinton. That is because this is a feckless and self-absorbed regime desperate to remain in power and prepared to do only what is necessary to achieve that goal.

  • Nobama Yo Mamma

    Israel and the Moslem countries are all crazy. They want war, chaos and bloodshed, and they will drag the entire world into war.

    • Mary Sue

      I think you're missing something here. What compromise can one have with those that want to KILL you? Seriously? You think compromise is possible when the Palestinian organizations from Hamas to Islamic Jihad to the PLO not only want Israel destroyed as a state, but they want to kill EVERY LAST JEW.

      Trying to keep murderous insane thugs from committing mass genocide isn't exactly insanity there, man. It's called survival.