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	<title>Comments on: Obama Pushing Federal Control of Public Schools</title>
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		<title>By: Jim_C</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4020100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim_C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 05:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4020100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe my Catholic bias--Protestantism&#039;s faith vs. deeds as a path to salvation never sat well with me.Too much &quot;Jesus can do this, Jesus can do that.&quot; There was a scripture about Elijah&#039;s Yahweh vs. Baal that was pitched as &quot;Elijah overcoming adversity&quot; to the kids, rubbed me the wrong way. What can I say. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe my Catholic bias&#8211;Protestantism&#039;s faith vs. deeds as a path to salvation never sat well with me.Too much &quot;Jesus can do this, Jesus can do that.&quot; There was a scripture about Elijah&#039;s Yahweh vs. Baal that was pitched as &quot;Elijah overcoming adversity&quot; to the kids, rubbed me the wrong way. What can I say. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim_C</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4020055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim_C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4020055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have not read Zinn, and what I have heard of him makes me uninterested, at least up until now. Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but I think of him a bit like Chomsky, who I am familiar with, who never met an international situation that wasn&#039;t the fault of the U.S. A taste of him was enough (though I think his critique of our media holds water very well). 
 
It is my understanding that universities teach Zinn as an alternate history--&quot;You&#039;ve heard this story, but what about this?&quot; kind of thing. In university, I think as many strains of thought should be explored as possible. I have a &quot;liberal&quot; view of education. You read Keynes, but you also read Friedman or Hayek. 
 
At the grade school level, it&#039;s enough to get kids familiarized with algebra, the periodic table of elements, the makeup of the three branches of government, the clarinet. So, practically speaking, perhaps critical thinking can be applied to things like interpreting the messages underlying advertising--something they can identify with.  
 
I have a pretty good idea of what conservatives think is being taught in schools--month long seminars on Kwanzaa, the notion that slavery was somehow an ugly mark on our history, Karl Marx is Santa Claus, gays are human beings deserving respect, etc. Maybe they do, somewhere. But where I live, stuff is pretty straightforward and teachers simply teach their subject. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read Zinn, and what I have heard of him makes me uninterested, at least up until now. Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but I think of him a bit like Chomsky, who I am familiar with, who never met an international situation that wasn&#039;t the fault of the U.S. A taste of him was enough (though I think his critique of our media holds water very well). </p>
<p>It is my understanding that universities teach Zinn as an alternate history&#8211;&quot;You&#039;ve heard this story, but what about this?&quot; kind of thing. In university, I think as many strains of thought should be explored as possible. I have a &quot;liberal&quot; view of education. You read Keynes, but you also read Friedman or Hayek. </p>
<p>At the grade school level, it&#039;s enough to get kids familiarized with algebra, the periodic table of elements, the makeup of the three branches of government, the clarinet. So, practically speaking, perhaps critical thinking can be applied to things like interpreting the messages underlying advertising&#8211;something they can identify with.  </p>
<p>I have a pretty good idea of what conservatives think is being taught in schools&#8211;month long seminars on Kwanzaa, the notion that slavery was somehow an ugly mark on our history, Karl Marx is Santa Claus, gays are human beings deserving respect, etc. Maybe they do, somewhere. But where I live, stuff is pretty straightforward and teachers simply teach their subject. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4019367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4019367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So I beg to differ, my comments were quite appropriate.&quot; 
 
Then you must have missed the point, or wanted to change the topic without framing the new context. Are you talking about conservatives at large, or those commenting here? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;So I beg to differ, my comments were quite appropriate.&quot; </p>
<p>Then you must have missed the point, or wanted to change the topic without framing the new context. Are you talking about conservatives at large, or those commenting here? </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4019361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4019361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Do I need it, because &quot;I&#039;m all set?&quot; Hmmm. I&#039;m happy with the education I got, and I&#039;m happy with the public education my kids get...&quot; 
 
Wow. You&#039;ve confessed something very significant. 
 
 
&quot;I&#039;m not entirely sure what conservatives think should happen. I know they love to whine about &quot;indoctrination&quot; and teacher&#039;s unions, arguments in the abstract...&quot; 
 
Well, this site generally discusses news and current events and applies analysis from the perspective that we have problems in this nation due directly and indirectly to leftism. For someone who doesn&#039;t understand the nuanced positions, it is easy to dismiss many of the concerns, especially to the ears of the indoctrinated like you. Nobody considers themselves &quot;indoctrinated&quot; and maybe you need to think long and hard about what it would mean to distinguish between indoctrination, and educating children to find empirical truths and verify them directly or indirectly with solid reasoning skills. I can tell you that I rarely if ever meet students with these capabilities outside of a few select universities. It should start with grade school children to think critically in the classic meaning of the phrase, &quot;critical thinking.&quot; 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-critical-thinking/766&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-cr...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
Remember that I said it should start in grade school. I&#039;m not expecting 10-year-old kids to write papers on the subject, but the fundamental instinct to challenge subjective statements to be supported by objective facts or at least having some identifiable standards for evidence, should be fundamental to what we teach kids if we are to call it educational. 
 
Indoctrination is teaching children to recite positions. Those positions are selected by political process, whether or not you recognize that. Do you know who Howard Zinn is?  
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshisto...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
Read that index page, or as much as you&#039;d like then we can discuss what you think about it. The source for this site is a book used a serious study of history in many college classrooms. I don&#039;t know what each teacher is saying about the book, but I meet so many zombies quoting from it, just like the lunatic web site author. History is a weapon? In what, class warfare? It is to leftists. Do leftists hold political power in education decisions? Please tell me if you disagree that having people who believe in &quot;new history&quot; (revisionism by rejecting &quot;received texts&quot; just because they were tainted by &quot;racism&quot;). 
 
We can continue this bit by bit or we won&#039;t discuss anything enlightening. Tell me what you think about Zinn or revisionism in general by people who don&#039;t even try to find direct evidence, and this is supposed to be superior to those &quot;racist&quot; historians who by the way, often cite direct evidence and witness testimony with a sincere effort to find the salient facts of history. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Do I need it, because &quot;I&#039;m all set?&quot; Hmmm. I&#039;m happy with the education I got, and I&#039;m happy with the public education my kids get&#8230;&quot; </p>
<p>Wow. You&#039;ve confessed something very significant. </p>
<p>&quot;I&#039;m not entirely sure what conservatives think should happen. I know they love to whine about &quot;indoctrination&quot; and teacher&#039;s unions, arguments in the abstract&#8230;&quot; </p>
<p>Well, this site generally discusses news and current events and applies analysis from the perspective that we have problems in this nation due directly and indirectly to leftism. For someone who doesn&#039;t understand the nuanced positions, it is easy to dismiss many of the concerns, especially to the ears of the indoctrinated like you. Nobody considers themselves &quot;indoctrinated&quot; and maybe you need to think long and hard about what it would mean to distinguish between indoctrination, and educating children to find empirical truths and verify them directly or indirectly with solid reasoning skills. I can tell you that I rarely if ever meet students with these capabilities outside of a few select universities. It should start with grade school children to think critically in the classic meaning of the phrase, &quot;critical thinking.&quot;<br />
  <a href="http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-critical-thinking/766" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-cr" rel="nofollow">http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-cr</a>&#8230; </p>
<p>Remember that I said it should start in grade school. I&#039;m not expecting 10-year-old kids to write papers on the subject, but the fundamental instinct to challenge subjective statements to be supported by objective facts or at least having some identifiable standards for evidence, should be fundamental to what we teach kids if we are to call it educational. </p>
<p>Indoctrination is teaching children to recite positions. Those positions are selected by political process, whether or not you recognize that. Do you know who Howard Zinn is?<br />
  <a href="http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshisto" rel="nofollow">http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshisto</a>&#8230; </p>
<p>Read that index page, or as much as you&#039;d like then we can discuss what you think about it. The source for this site is a book used a serious study of history in many college classrooms. I don&#039;t know what each teacher is saying about the book, but I meet so many zombies quoting from it, just like the lunatic web site author. History is a weapon? In what, class warfare? It is to leftists. Do leftists hold political power in education decisions? Please tell me if you disagree that having people who believe in &quot;new history&quot; (revisionism by rejecting &quot;received texts&quot; just because they were tainted by &quot;racism&quot;). </p>
<p>We can continue this bit by bit or we won&#039;t discuss anything enlightening. Tell me what you think about Zinn or revisionism in general by people who don&#039;t even try to find direct evidence, and this is supposed to be superior to those &quot;racist&quot; historians who by the way, often cite direct evidence and witness testimony with a sincere effort to find the salient facts of history. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4019238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4019238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;There&#039;s a Christian academy (good curriculum, good values, but way over the top religious magical thinking) &quot; 
 
Are you sure you don&#039;t merely assume that? Can you give me an example of magical thinking that they teach? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;There&#039;s a Christian academy (good curriculum, good values, but way over the top religious magical thinking) &quot; </p>
<p>Are you sure you don&#039;t merely assume that? Can you give me an example of magical thinking that they teach? </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4019234</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4019234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;To do so, you need to be creative, you need to take into account the notion that every child in the country should receive an education, and you need to convince people that what we have now is not working for anyone.&quot; 
 
I agree with you Jim. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;To do so, you need to be creative, you need to take into account the notion that every child in the country should receive an education, and you need to convince people that what we have now is not working for anyone.&quot; </p>
<p>I agree with you Jim. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim_C</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4018313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim_C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4018313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If we all agreed to start over&quot; 
 
Well, that&#039;s the trick, isn&#039;t it? Getting us all to agree to do that. To do so, you need to be creative, you need to take into account the notion that every child in the country should receive an education, and you need to convince people that what we have now is not working for anyone. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;If we all agreed to start over&quot; </p>
<p>Well, that&#039;s the trick, isn&#039;t it? Getting us all to agree to do that. To do so, you need to be creative, you need to take into account the notion that every child in the country should receive an education, and you need to convince people that what we have now is not working for anyone. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim_C</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4018291</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim_C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4018291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you say has merit. But consider this: my community doesn&#039;t have many alternatives. There&#039;s a Christian academy (good curriculum, good values, but way over the top religious magical thinking) and a good Catholic school (which we have experience with). Now, that school charges over $300 per month (essentially a car payment), which is affordable, if a bit of a sacrifice, and much more of one if you&#039;re sending more than one child there. But they are constantly fundraising, their teachers make peanuts, and they barely scrape by every year on that tuition. That last point is a big one--especially when I consider that the curriculum at that parochial school is not much better than the one at our public school.  For the price, what  I&#039;m getting is essentially better-disciplined, self-selected classmates (with parents who can afford the tuition) for my kids and religious ed. The education, itself, while good, is more of a wash. 
   
I like the idea of tuition: it&#039;s an investment in your child&#039;s education, and that investment has a way of making parents monitor their kid&#039;s education. But increasing those alternatives has to presume a market for those alternatives. When that market is limited, so are a family&#039;s options. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you say has merit. But consider this: my community doesn&#039;t have many alternatives. There&#039;s a Christian academy (good curriculum, good values, but way over the top religious magical thinking) and a good Catholic school (which we have experience with). Now, that school charges over $300 per month (essentially a car payment), which is affordable, if a bit of a sacrifice, and much more of one if you&#039;re sending more than one child there. But they are constantly fundraising, their teachers make peanuts, and they barely scrape by every year on that tuition. That last point is a big one&#8211;especially when I consider that the curriculum at that parochial school is not much better than the one at our public school.  For the price, what  I&#039;m getting is essentially better-disciplined, self-selected classmates (with parents who can afford the tuition) for my kids and religious ed. The education, itself, while good, is more of a wash. </p>
<p>I like the idea of tuition: it&#039;s an investment in your child&#039;s education, and that investment has a way of making parents monitor their kid&#039;s education. But increasing those alternatives has to presume a market for those alternatives. When that market is limited, so are a family&#039;s options. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim_C</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4018247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim_C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4018247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do I need it, because &quot;I&#039;m all set?&quot; Hmmm. I&#039;m happy with the education I got, and I&#039;m happy with the public education my kids get, and I recognize that it&#039;sprimarily my role to make sure they are getting a good education. So far it&#039;s been a decently challenging curriculum and the kids have the option for honors or advanced placement classes. I&#039;m willing to entertain alternatives, because I think the turn of the 20th century, agrarian model is outdated, the way information is transmitted has changed considerably, and I&#039;m not sure why we need a Dept. of Ed., except for writing large checks to the States.   
   
I&#039;m not entirely sure what conservatives think should happen. I know they love to whine about &quot;indoctrination&quot; and teacher&#039;s unions, arguments in the abstract. I don&#039;t hear them putting down too many of their own kids&#039; teachers, or their own education.  I also never hear them discuss other problems with education: poor/negligent parenting, administrative costs, the vast social changes of the 20th century demographically, culturally, technologically.   
   
All I hear is whine, complaints, and the typical finger-pointing that has literaly been happening for decade, yet no leader emerges. I hear very few people who &quot;get&quot; education: its history, its practice, its place in civil society. So I beg to differ, my comments were quite appropriate. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I need it, because &quot;I&#039;m all set?&quot; Hmmm. I&#039;m happy with the education I got, and I&#039;m happy with the public education my kids get, and I recognize that it&#039;sprimarily my role to make sure they are getting a good education. So far it&#039;s been a decently challenging curriculum and the kids have the option for honors or advanced placement classes. I&#039;m willing to entertain alternatives, because I think the turn of the 20th century, agrarian model is outdated, the way information is transmitted has changed considerably, and I&#039;m not sure why we need a Dept. of Ed., except for writing large checks to the States.   </p>
<p>I&#039;m not entirely sure what conservatives think should happen. I know they love to whine about &quot;indoctrination&quot; and teacher&#039;s unions, arguments in the abstract. I don&#039;t hear them putting down too many of their own kids&#039; teachers, or their own education.  I also never hear them discuss other problems with education: poor/negligent parenting, administrative costs, the vast social changes of the 20th century demographically, culturally, technologically.   </p>
<p>All I hear is whine, complaints, and the typical finger-pointing that has literaly been happening for decade, yet no leader emerges. I hear very few people who &quot;get&quot; education: its history, its practice, its place in civil society. So I beg to differ, my comments were quite appropriate. </p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Habern</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4017959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dennis Habern]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4017959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only way to control the level of learning in our public schools, is to re-implement &quot;CORPORAL 
 
PUNISHMENT,&quot; so that there is a sence of mild discipline that permeates throughout our public 
 
school system.  Without discipline, all institutions commence to crumble, if you follow, using 
 
the undisciplined spending of Washington, D.C., as an example.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way to control the level of learning in our public schools, is to re-implement &quot;CORPORAL </p>
<p>PUNISHMENT,&quot; so that there is a sence of mild discipline that permeates throughout our public </p>
<p>school system.  Without discipline, all institutions commence to crumble, if you follow, using </p>
<p>the undisciplined spending of Washington, D.C., as an example.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016608</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 06:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The whole &quot;white privilege&quot; thing is the assertion that whites benefit from racism. Someone even did a comic where a white kid is accepted into university while a black student in the immediate background is turned down, then the kid applies for a job and gets it while a black man in the immediate background is told all the positions are filled, and then the white kid gets a mortgage with his wife while a black couple in the immediate background is told &quot;Sorry we can&#039;t help you.&quot;&quot; 
 
 
This whole discernment between illustration and evidence is something we should teach, that&#039;s for sure. 
 
 
&quot;Then the end panel is the white kid going &quot;I&#039;ve never benefitted from racism!&quot; It&#039;s like, we&#039;re supposed to believe that the white kid got accepted for all those things BECAUSE there was turning down of black people. White Privilege is alleged to be Whites benefitting from the assumption that white people are better, less criminal, more hardworking, more trustworthy and more competent than any others.&quot; 
 
It&#039;s an old narrative that is used as a political tool to hurt people by class, and help those supposedly needed to rule according to &quot;social justice&quot; principles; the liberals.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;The whole &quot;white privilege&quot; thing is the assertion that whites benefit from racism. Someone even did a comic where a white kid is accepted into university while a black student in the immediate background is turned down, then the kid applies for a job and gets it while a black man in the immediate background is told all the positions are filled, and then the white kid gets a mortgage with his wife while a black couple in the immediate background is told &quot;Sorry we can&#039;t help you.&quot;&quot; </p>
<p>This whole discernment between illustration and evidence is something we should teach, that&#039;s for sure. </p>
<p>&quot;Then the end panel is the white kid going &quot;I&#039;ve never benefitted from racism!&quot; It&#039;s like, we&#039;re supposed to believe that the white kid got accepted for all those things BECAUSE there was turning down of black people. White Privilege is alleged to be Whites benefitting from the assumption that white people are better, less criminal, more hardworking, more trustworthy and more competent than any others.&quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s an old narrative that is used as a political tool to hurt people by class, and help those supposedly needed to rule according to &quot;social justice&quot; principles; the liberals.  </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This will stop all the entitlement mentality of the kaufur white boys&quot; 
 
You must be imitating a silly Muslim, right? There aren&#039;t that many cliche-using Muslims who know how to use the Internet too. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;This will stop all the entitlement mentality of the kaufur white boys&quot; </p>
<p>You must be imitating a silly Muslim, right? There aren&#039;t that many cliche-using Muslims who know how to use the Internet too. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016254</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If each state was responsble for education in their own state it would be very creative and could be comprehensive, constructive, and Constitutional. Some states would encourage longer hours or more days, some might find vocational training from an early age more suitale for their needs - the thing is that many people would vote with their feet, or send the kids to live with the grandparents, or become activity if making their schools more like those in another state. In many states the increase in home-schooling, private, charter schools and other alternatives would provide the answer.&quot; 
 
It will never happen for as long as the race-baiting socialists and other collectivists are able to point to distinctions as proof that someone is being victimized. &quot;Why do they get X?&quot; &quot;They have more money for better education, no fair.&quot; No, they are more successful because they took the time and hard work to make their education better. Now you want the results without the work. That in itself is a recipe for failure. 
 
If people don&#039;t understand these fundamentals, where can you go from there in terms of restoring this country to it&#039;s founding principals? We have liars like Howard Zinn, now thankfully unable to create new lies, but still having his deadly book used as a school text. Where do we go from here? We start with returning to teaching the constitution and I guess allowing elective sharing of all curriculum state to state to reduce whining, and things like that. Call it cooperative collectivism. No coercion allowed. 
 
This is after all, America...still..sort of. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;If each state was responsble for education in their own state it would be very creative and could be comprehensive, constructive, and Constitutional. Some states would encourage longer hours or more days, some might find vocational training from an early age more suitale for their needs &#8211; the thing is that many people would vote with their feet, or send the kids to live with the grandparents, or become activity if making their schools more like those in another state. In many states the increase in home-schooling, private, charter schools and other alternatives would provide the answer.&quot; </p>
<p>It will never happen for as long as the race-baiting socialists and other collectivists are able to point to distinctions as proof that someone is being victimized. &quot;Why do they get X?&quot; &quot;They have more money for better education, no fair.&quot; No, they are more successful because they took the time and hard work to make their education better. Now you want the results without the work. That in itself is a recipe for failure. </p>
<p>If people don&#039;t understand these fundamentals, where can you go from there in terms of restoring this country to it&#039;s founding principals? We have liars like Howard Zinn, now thankfully unable to create new lies, but still having his deadly book used as a school text. Where do we go from here? We start with returning to teaching the constitution and I guess allowing elective sharing of all curriculum state to state to reduce whining, and things like that. Call it cooperative collectivism. No coercion allowed. </p>
<p>This is after all, America&#8230;still..sort of. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;There is a very straightforward, creative and constructive approach to education - the Constitution which says not one word about education. This is entirely for the states and the individuals.&quot; 
 
I agree, but it&#039;s not straightforward from the point we have arrived. It would be straightforward if we all agreed to start over. Teaching the constitution itself should be the only thing mandated federally. That&#039;s it. That alone should ensure many of the other things we took for granted before they started to slip away. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;There is a very straightforward, creative and constructive approach to education &#8211; the Constitution which says not one word about education. This is entirely for the states and the individuals.&quot; </p>
<p>I agree, but it&#039;s not straightforward from the point we have arrived. It would be straightforward if we all agreed to start over. Teaching the constitution itself should be the only thing mandated federally. That&#039;s it. That alone should ensure many of the other things we took for granted before they started to slip away. </p>
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		<title>By: Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The whole &quot;white privilege&quot; thing is the assertion that whites benefit from racism.  Someone even did a comic where a white kid is accepted into university while a black student in the immediate background is turned down, then the kid applies for a job and gets it while a black man in the immediate background is told all the positions are filled, and then the white kid gets a mortgage with his wife while a black couple in the immediate background is told &quot;Sorry we can&#039;t help you.&quot;  Then the end panel is the white kid going &quot;I&#039;ve never benefitted from racism!&quot;  It&#039;s like, we&#039;re supposed to believe that the white kid got accepted for all those things BECAUSE there was turning down of black people.  White Privilege is alleged to be Whites benefitting from the assumption that white people are better, less criminal, more hardworking, more trustworthy and more competent than any others. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole &quot;white privilege&quot; thing is the assertion that whites benefit from racism.  Someone even did a comic where a white kid is accepted into university while a black student in the immediate background is turned down, then the kid applies for a job and gets it while a black man in the immediate background is told all the positions are filled, and then the white kid gets a mortgage with his wife while a black couple in the immediate background is told &quot;Sorry we can&#039;t help you.&quot;  Then the end panel is the white kid going &quot;I&#039;ve never benefitted from racism!&quot;  It&#039;s like, we&#039;re supposed to believe that the white kid got accepted for all those things BECAUSE there was turning down of black people.  White Privilege is alleged to be Whites benefitting from the assumption that white people are better, less criminal, more hardworking, more trustworthy and more competent than any others. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If you care about your kids&#039; and grandkids&#039; future, you better come up with better than pouting. Critical thinking isn&#039;t just about pointing out what&#039;s wrong. That&#039;s the easy part. &quot; 
 
 
You&#039;re not wrong in your statement, just in your hypocritical expectations. Where are your answers? Second, this is commentary on an article published, and suggestions are welcomed but not demanded. 
 
Where are yours? 
 
&quot;You need a comprehensive, creative, and constructive approach to education.&quot; 
 
You don&#039;t need it? We do, but you don&#039;t because you&#039;re all set? We (including you) need these with some regulations about using objective facts, but also freedom to argue about right and wrong with some rational basis. Start with the US constitution, teach that, see where it leads. It has to be better than what we have now. 
 
BTW, I have certainly injected plenty of suggestions, but would you be happy if I linked to them with every comment just to prove to you that solutions do exist? I doubt it. 
 
Look in the mirror. You&#039;re projecting your own sense of inadequacy on to others who are simply commenting on the subjects at hand. If you want to hear solutions, there are more constructive ways to elicit them from those reading your comments. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;If you care about your kids&#039; and grandkids&#039; future, you better come up with better than pouting. Critical thinking isn&#039;t just about pointing out what&#039;s wrong. That&#039;s the easy part. &quot; </p>
<p>You&#039;re not wrong in your statement, just in your hypocritical expectations. Where are your answers? Second, this is commentary on an article published, and suggestions are welcomed but not demanded. </p>
<p>Where are yours? </p>
<p>&quot;You need a comprehensive, creative, and constructive approach to education.&quot; </p>
<p>You don&#039;t need it? We do, but you don&#039;t because you&#039;re all set? We (including you) need these with some regulations about using objective facts, but also freedom to argue about right and wrong with some rational basis. Start with the US constitution, teach that, see where it leads. It has to be better than what we have now. </p>
<p>BTW, I have certainly injected plenty of suggestions, but would you be happy if I linked to them with every comment just to prove to you that solutions do exist? I doubt it. </p>
<p>Look in the mirror. You&#039;re projecting your own sense of inadequacy on to others who are simply commenting on the subjects at hand. If you want to hear solutions, there are more constructive ways to elicit them from those reading your comments. </p>
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		<title>By: Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[also, irony, calling white boys basically the equivalent of the n-word!  Priceless! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, irony, calling white boys basically the equivalent of the n-word!  Priceless! </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[no it will make it worse. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no it will make it worse. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[that&#039;s kinda difficult to do when the leftist Teacher&#039;s Unions have a stranglehold on it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that&#039;s kinda difficult to do when the leftist Teacher&#039;s Unions have a stranglehold on it. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mary Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/indoctrination-sold-as-education/comment-page-1/#comment-4016203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 03:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=168570#comment-4016203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh I&#039;m sure that it does.  If it&#039;s sidwell friends, the same one Chelsea Clinton went to, you can bet your booties that their brains are being well and thoroughly washed there. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I&#039;m sure that it does.  If it&#039;s sidwell friends, the same one Chelsea Clinton went to, you can bet your booties that their brains are being well and thoroughly washed there. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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