Robert Spencer Asks: Did Muhammad Exist?

Bruce Thornton is a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, a Research Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, and a Professor of Classics and Humanities at the California State University. He is the author of nine books and numerous essays on classical culture and its influence on Western Civilization. His most recent book, Democracy's Dangers and Discontents (Hoover Institution Press), is now available for purchase.


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Editor’s note: Robert Spencer’s acclaimed new book, Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam’s Obscure Origins, is now available. To order, click here

One of the jihadists’ most potent psychological weapons is the double standard Muslims have imposed on the West. Temples and churches are destroyed and vandalized, Christians murdered and driven from the lands of Christianity’s birth, anti-Semitic lunacy propagated by high-ranking Muslim clerics, and Christian territory like northern Cyprus ethnically cleansed and occupied by Muslims. Yet the West ignores these depredations all the while it agonizes over trivial “insults” to Islam and Mohammed, and decries the thought-crime of “Islamophobia” whenever even factual statements are made about Islamic history and theology. This groveling behavior confirms the traditional Islamic chauvinism that sees Muslims as the “best of nations” destined by Allah to rule the world through violent jihad.

Even in the rarefied world of academic scholarship, this fear of offense has protected Islam from the sort of critical scrutiny every other world religion has undergone for centuries. Some modern scholars who do exercise their intellectual freedom and investigate these issues, like Christoph Luxenberg or Ibn Warraq, must work incognito to avoid the wrath of the adherents of the “Religion of Peace.” Now Robert Spencer, the fearless director of Jihad Watch and author of several books telling the truths about Islam obscured by a frightened academy and media, in his new book Did Muhammad Exist? challenges this conspiracy of fear and silence by surveying the scholarship and historical evidence for the life and deeds of Islam’s founder.

As Spencer traces the story of Muhammed through ancient sources and archaeology, the evidence for the Prophet’s life becomes more and more evanescent. The name Muhammad, for example, appears only 4 times in the Qur’an, as compared to the 136 mentions of Moses in the Qur’an. And those references to Muhammad say nothing specific about his life. The first biography of Muhammad, written by Ibn Ishaq 125 years after the Prophet’s death, is the primary source of biographical detail, yet it “comes down to us only in the quite lengthy fragments reproduced by an even later chronicler, Ibn Hisham, who wrote in the first quarter of the ninth century, and by other historians who reproduced and thereby preserved additional sections.”

Nor are ancient sources outside Islam any more forthcoming. An early document from around 635, by a Jewish writer converting to Christianity, merely mentions a generic “prophet” who comes “armed with a sword.” But in this document the “prophet” is still alive 3 years after Muhammad’s death. And this prophet was notable for proclaiming the imminent arrival of the Jewish messiah. “At the height of the Arabian conquests,” Spencer writes, “the non Muslim sources are as silent as the Muslim ones are about the prophet and holy book that were supposed to have inspired those conquests.” This uncertainty in the ancient sources is a consistent feature of Spencer’s succinct survey of them. Indeed, these sources call into question the notion that Islam itself was recognized as a new, coherent religion. In 651, when Muawiya called on the Byzantine emperor Constantine to reject Christianity, he evoked the “God of our father Abraham,” not Islam per se. One hundred years after the death of Muhammad, “the image of the prophet of Islam remained fuzzy.”

Non-literary sources from the late 7th century are equally vague. Dedicatory inscriptions on dams and bridges make no mention of Islam, the Qur’an, or Mohammad. Coins bear the words “in the name of Allah,” the generic word for God used by Christians and Jews, but say nothing about Muhammad as Allah’s prophet or anything about Islam. Particularly noteworthy is the absence of Islam’s foundational statement “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.” Later coins referring specifically to Muhammad depict him with a cross, contradicting the Qur’anic rejection of Christ’s crucifixion and later prohibitions against displaying crucifixes. Given that other evidence suggests that the word “muhammad” is an honorific meaning “praised one,” it is possible that these coins do not refer to the historical Muhammad at all.

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  • Bryan

    Christianity 2.0:

    Everything said in this article can be applied to nearly every religion in history. There is no definitive evidence that Jesus existed, or Moses, or the Buddha. There is no evidence that Christianity was a religion until the Roman Empire co-opted it for political purposes. Moreover, the diminutive tone of this article seems to ignore the fact that the centuries-old Christian:Muslim kill-ratio remains beyond any reasonable comparison. If your going to talk about history, then it might be helpful to consider all of it, unless your simply trying to reinforce your own prejudice, in which case I guess it could be an inconvenience.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Reminds me of another parasitic person.
    The kind of parasitic person who sits at his work desk writing propaganda all day long. That calls for violence at each and every excuse, not justice or fair law enforcement…. but dirty mean painful vigilante attacks. Like rounding up an entire city of Christians and burning them alive in a locked church.

    You can't actually have a debate so you just throw mud on the wall and hope to distract any meaningful comment.

  • truebearing

    The topic is Islam. Did you have any rebuttals of Spencer to offer?

    There are reliable and substantial historical records of Jesus, but apparently not so with Muhammed. You are curiously silent on that issue. Why is that?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, you broke it. He had it right the first time.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Obviously you are a leftwing secular loon who hates all forms of religion. However, if you weren't so clueless, you'd understand that Islam is not a religion at all, but instead a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology that masquerades as being a religion to dupe the gullible societies it intends to subjugate into Islamic totalitarianism via the imposition of Sharia. By the way it looks, it's working because it sure duped the hell out of you!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course there is. Wee, you've been through this before with people.

    Josephus was a Roman historian that documented the evidence of his life.
    You simply are so full of hate you can't see anything outside your world view.

  • intrcptr2

    I shall not repeat any of the things that Roger has.

    I will only point out that you are doing your history wrong, if you truly believe that biblical and extra biblical evidence of the existence of Jesus of Nazareth are invalid hearsay (While such things are nice to have, history does not stop in their absence).
    I should hope you are aware that we have no physical evidence of a whole slew of historical figures, like Alexander, Homer, or most of the pharoahs, much less leaders from other parts of the world.

    You are arguing in circles by denigrating "religious" texts qua religious.

  • aspacia

    Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."{4} Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

    Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . .{5}

    Here is the cited link: http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You can't keep anything honest can you?

    Jesus was crucified between two thieves, one who accepted him and one who didn't.

    The other examples you used take nothing from that. And the blood of lambs protecting goes back to the passover, at least with the Jews. Of course animal sacrifice goes back before that to the expulsion from paradise.

    Can't you just leave the hate and make sensible comments?

  • ajnn

    these are interesting bits of information about the formation of early christianity. fun stuff.

    exactly how dates were assigned to significant events is fun, but has little impact on the depth and insight of christian theology.

    we still have no idea where the kosher regs came from; just many, many exciting ideas.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I see so much bigotry. You can't discuss Christianity without putting it down. If you don't see it, that means you're lying and don't' want to admit it.

    Can you show in the Bible where one thief went to heaven and one to hell? I can see one was promised paradise, but none where they went anywhere but to get their legs broken.

    You jump to conclusions constantly. What a hate filled bigot.

  • wsk

    Stole is a harsh term. Incorporated may be a little less inflammatory and probably more accurate.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yes, it will. Too bad I have to slow down so you don't get too far behind.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Google it, why should I have to do all your homework?
    If you're going to pretend to come here informed and contributing to the debate you need to do your own research.

    I could make claims like you do, and you wouldn't' like it.

    There is no documented evidence you exist. Can you prove that you do? Where is any documented evidence? And since no one closer to your death then 37 years later, we can't show you are really here now.

  • mlcblog

    He said he saw him or had it from someone who had. It was common knowledge in those days, and everything was written down. People were getting going on written history about that time and we have those records.

  • Eyes_Open

    And we have been through that fraud as well, Josephus wasn't born until over a decade after Jesus was suppose to be crucified, so he never met him, only heard stories at best.

  • patriothere

    There are no writings of the this christ character which is a made up character taken from other gods circulating around the middle east at that time. Try again loser. SHow me the quote of where josephus the jew mentions this made up character. Prove it. Loser. Troll.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I haven been schooled?

    YOu found the worse possible site and even it admits most people draw the conclusions I have.

    How was school?

  • aspacia

    Wee, ad hominem attacks are fallacy.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And yet people had enough for him to document as much as he did.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yes, someone who even you admit has stuff that has to be explained away to deny the obvious.

    You love a lot of strange things.

  • intrcptr2

    If Josephus is a legitimate source when you are trying to discredit biblical tests, then he is just as valid when what he says supports them.

    Or do you honestly think that history is built exclusively by eyewitnesses?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And at the time of Josephus there would have been records like the census taken in Bethlehem.

    You are hearsay. You are schooled, and still didn't learn a thing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you're here long after your grandparents. Yet here you are.

    You are throwing that out as a straw man argument.

  • mlcblog

    So?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Where are you census records showing Jesus wasn't born?

    A greek physician was satisfied and wrote about it.
    Josephus wrote about it.

    You just have nothing and are so full of hatred and bigotry you have to attack constantly.

    Schooling, it's like feeding you books one at a time . You learn nothing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And John saw and heard first hand when Jesus walked and talked.

    But that first hand account isn't acceptable to you simply because Christians actually believe it.

    The fact that so many of the people involved in the life of Christ are documented means nothing to you, because you are so full of hatred.

    Pilot went on to be governor of Egypt and was one of the important founders of the Coptic Church (he's still revered there). You can't destroy the story of the life of Christ. You simply keep nipping at it's heals since you are so full of hate.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    By those standards I can dispute your grandparents. The only people that have documentation are biased and can't be trusted.

    You offer no outside validation. It's only hearsay you're even here now.
    Every single piece of evidence is biased and not historical outside the religion of wee wee.

  • aspacia

    The apostles and early Christians would also be valid regardless of what you claim.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    We have been over this before as well. Some suggest that these writings of John come from the work of a group of scholars in Asia Minor who followed a “John” or they came from the work of church fathers who aimed to further the interests of the Church. Or they could have simply come from people also named John (a very common name). No one knows. Also note that nowhere in the body of the three epistles of “John” does it mention a John. In any case, the epistles of John say nothing about seeing an earthly Jesus. Not only do we not know who wrote these epistles, they can only serve as hearsay accounys. Not too bright are you? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • Eyes_Open

    Changing the subject, we were talking about Josephus.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    See the documents of your grandparents had much less to back them up.

    If you apply your own tests to your existence you don't exist either.

    Why so much hate? Why?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    So I have documented evidence, pictures and , genealogy records. So no you can't use my own (any any ratioanl truth seekers) standards. You are deflecting away from the truth. Typical from a pig <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    The evidence and the first hand accounts of His life were handled much more carefully than your records.
    So by your own tests you existed less than Jesus.

  • Eyes_Open

    Ha, but there are no records of census taken in the province until after the death of Herod the Great, so the entire story of Jesus' birth is false. He may have been born, but the story surrounding his birth and all the events that are used to claim that he is of holy descent are false, provable with facts and records from the roman empire.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Where is all this evidence you exist?
    You have nothing, you aren't really here. This conversant was over before you started. You don't care about facts.

  • aspacia

    Wee,

    You add nothing to the conversation and are intent on insult rather than refutation. I win; you lose. How very childish.

    Now, quit masterbating with the keyboard and allow the adults to talk.

  • Eyes_Open

    But still no first hand knowledge as you originally claimed. And what did they have, stories that they wanted to believe so they could think themselves to be touched by a divine force. These days that exact thing will get you a room at the white coat inn.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And is there a link? I don't' see one.

    There was a census taken at your birth and it proved the story of your birth is contrived too.

    How can you just make up any story you want? Cant' you at least have a link to a bogus website?

  • bhs3kgt

    I love hearing from you professional atheists. How much time to you put into trying to discredit Christianity? Must eat up lots of free time and yet you still seem to protest with a sense of shrill desperation. Smarter intellectuals than you have worked for centuries to discredit Christianity and yet here We are. Still the most beneficent religion the world has ever seen.

  • Eyes_Open

    And you have never seen a fact. Oh, they have been there, but you are incapable of seeing them.

  • AZZA

    ROGER WHAT THE FVCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!
    WHY ARE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF SO OBSTINATE!
    GO PRAY TO YOUR INVISIBLE FRIEND AND ASK HIM TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. SEE IF YOU HET AN ANSWER!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course. They're wasted on you and wee both.

    But I can do that for you to ignore all over again. http://www.robotwisdom.com/science/jesus.html

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yes and you ignore facts to back up your mantra a lot too. http://www.breakpoint.org/commentaries/2312-the-g

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Really? How desperate you are to ignore things.
    http://www.bible-history.com/empires/pilate.html

  • Eyes_Open

    Hmm. let's see.

    First off I will tell you as you are so fond of telling everyone else, Look it up for yourself, I'm not here to do your home work for you.

    Second, that makes no since, but I expect no more from you, and the entire story of Jesus' birth hinges on the census, if iit didn't happen then the entire story falls apart. And it didn't happen.

    Third, you make up all the thing you like and ignore the links that prove you wrong so why should anyone bother to send them. It is easy enough for you to find, as soon as you get off the "All Christian, All the Time" web sites.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You fail your own test.
    Then pretend any relevance.

    The man who saw Jesus and judged Him had something to say and did so. http://www.coptichymns.net/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-8

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Why would I do your homework?

    You made the claim you show it's not just mud on the wall.

  • aspacia

    It is sense.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Is that the best you can do? http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/the

  • Eyes_Open

    How desperate of you to link from only bias web sites, and not even on the subject we were talking about. Josephus remember……. not Pilate.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Really? An undated opinion piece?
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/faking-a-

  • Eyes_Open
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You only use biased web sites. Bias seems to be fine with you, as long as it agrees with you. And you conveniently ignore any facts in the one I use.

  • intrcptr2

    The subject was not Josephus, it is the historical accuracy of the Bible…

    Or do you still deny the existence of the Hittites?

  • Eyes_Open

    Then please enlighten me to the facts on that page referring to Josephus.

    And I linked Christian websites in the above post that still refute the story of the birth.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    The first only describes the census. Even for wiki it doesn't prove anything.
    The second is a biased opinion piece, If I offered something like that you'd rip it apart and ignore it. I'll do better and just ignore it since it offers no scholastic expertise.
    The third source, if your argument hinges on it, I'm laughing.

    Was it supposed to make sense? Even a well laid out blog would have had more seriousness.

    Come on, can't you do better than that?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Not really, who would know better the beginnings of Pilate than the ones he governed. By rejecting it out of hand you show your bias and hatred towards all sources not agreeing with your talking points.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course it has. It had back ups for all it's claims.

    Try again.

  • aspacia

    Just because a site is Christian does not make it invalid.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course you're wrong.
    If it was Christian it didn't refute the story.

    Just labeling something doesn't make it so.
    I could label you 'smart' and it wouldn't be true.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Seems to me the man who judged Him had a pretty good vantage.
    Of course you dismiss the Copts history and their story.

    Why do you manage to do that with anyone that disagrees with you?

    Could it be you're simply a hate filled troll?

  • patriothere

    Religious fundamentalists like this reosrt to faith when you call them on their nonsense. Just mention the word dinosaur to these creeps and that should send them over the edge.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So, you're admitting it's not the outright fake you pretended to a moment ago?

    I can't believe you're making progress. Quick, you better deny everything and go back to your starting point like you always do.

    Remember, we never ever proved that Hitler didn't do evil in spite of Christ's teachings….

    Wee, even taking your last comment seriously. It showed that the story wasn't out of character for what happened during that time period. It validates the details even if you won't admit the possibility it was Jesus laying in that tomb.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, if we use your flexible and changing standards, you don't exist either.

    You can't show evidence that the Bible was wrong in fact, so you simply babble to confuse the issues.

  • intrcptr2

    No, scholars (Already biased against the text) have argued that the traditionally recognized authors did not write the texts; they do not KNOW this as fact.
    After reading far too many already, I am amazed when I find anyone who buys these rotten "higher criticism" arguements; they tend to rely far too much on speculation and very dicey word play.

    O.M.G.
    I started this response before I finsihed reading; did you just base an argument against liturgy on the idea that John signed his Gospel as "St John"?!! Are you serious?!!
    OK. From this point forward you are officially an idiot.

    The church did not establish sainthood. The RCC has conjured up a rather perverse definition of someone they really like. But the concept of being a saint is in the text of the NT to begin with. And no one signed any of the Gospels, as Saint or otherwise. John clearly places himself in the text as an eyewtiness (Which means the burden of disproof is on the sceptic, a job that has never been pulled off successfully).

    Your ending here is not an argument or experiment, by the way. It is a badly constructed game, resting on an utterly ahistorical presumption which bears no relation to human relationships(You might just as well ask where the paragraphs are, much less the chapters and verses). The Gospels did not magically appear in a library or church somewhere awaiting a medieval clerk to discern who wrote them; they were passed along, hand to hand, among believers.
    If you give me a book with no title, I am going to ask you about it. There was no need for the authors to sign them for others to know who wrote them.

    I really do not care how upset you are that your mommy made you go to Mass as a little boy. You need to grow up and realize that you've been snookered, both within and without the Church.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    LIke yours were?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Why, I haven't failed. I expected you to ignore all evidence against your position.

    It's a risk taken when you debate someone ruled by hatred and bigotry. I showed my side and backed it up with reasonable sources for my conclusions.

    You? Not so much.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And I presented it.

    You only fail to admit it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Can you?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Can you show where you didn't?

    Go back and read the thread. Can you manage that? It's biased and only opinion pieces, but try.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Not yet you haven't. You've only shown that your bigotry blinds you to facts.

  • RoguePatriot6

    then all you accomplished is to fool yourself.

    Romans, in the first couple of chapters, talk about a reprobate or completely depraved mind.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Can you show unbiased documentation it's you typing them? You fail your own changing tests.

  • RoguePatriot6

    "Can you show in the Bible where one thief went to heaven and one to hell? "

    You won't get a straight answer, you'll just get something else taken completely out of context.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    In what way? The biased opinions it throws out?
    The outdated conclusions?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, you still ignore all evidence collected at the time. The problem with that is that unbiased people examined the life of Christ and found not only was it true, but used it to change their world.

    So, you only want to listen to people who saw the truth and ignored it. That would make them like you. Blinded by bigotry and not smart enough to base their world view on facts.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And your grandparents are dead.

    Do you really know they lived? They aren't here to speak. You have the most failed talking points. Why do you think you can sit at a government desk typing propaganda and have any credibility?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    See, you still fail to admit it.

    Are you almost to the quota you have to meet on propaganda filled comments for the day?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    It was biased, why did you take it seriously?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    They were biased in their conclusions.

    They assume that because someone was changed by the evidence they saw they cant' be trusted. Perhaps Luke was the most trustworthy kind of person, perhaps John was a simple man telling what he knew to be true.

    The fact you reject them without examining what they say shows bias.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So you admit you never say anything of substance.

    What to make more false assumptions?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    They are very much alive. You know nothing about my life Try again <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    I admit they are biased. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    See you are making false assumptions and twisting my words. That is why you ALWAYS fail <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And do they talk to the dancing pink ponies inside your head?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Still pushing for your quota.

    How sad.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course not. And quit blaming me for your using stupid words.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Who cares what your failed book says? You book has corrupted a lot of minds and caused many people to kill others. I would not trust it <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    How can you expect to ignore every person alive at the time and not come up with false conclusions?

    Or is that what you're trying to do?

  • RoguePatriot6

    Yea, I know, because of the bible we have alot of twisted minds out there.

    Really? Has it ever occured to you that people have twisted their own minds like you have, Wee? Naahhh, of course not. It's the bible's fault, in other words it's God's fault. Classic!!!

    It reminds me of spoiled rebellious youth, blaming his parents for the demise caused by his/her own foolishness.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    It is wee wee, the small little tiny man sitting at his work terminal.

    He sounds like he's starting to hit that little flask in his drawer too.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Still trying to please allah. How pathetic <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I bow only to the one true God, the Creator.

    It's part of being a Christian.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    As I said you know nothing about me. You just proved that <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I know enough. You love to advocate for vigilante violence. You ignore anything you don't agree with. You have no honor and love to try intimidating people who you can't just bully around. You make up anything that suits you and you will change the subject as a last ditch desperate effort when you've been thoroughly exposed.

  • Eyes_Open

    Is that the best you can do, "I don't believe them because they are what I believe" Come on now, you probably can't do better, but at least try.

  • intrcptr2

    Roger,
    I am familiar with Glenn's ChristianThinkTank. I find his arguments tend to be very well laid out and evidentially supported. He is critiquing an argument like Wee's here, by inserting his own comments interlinearly with those taken from Fox's book (I'm not sure why you feel it poorly done).
    EyesOpen has shot himself in the foot with that one; Glenn is arguing FOR Luke's account of a census, which demanded that Jesus be delivered in Bethlehem. Concerning this, I find this quite interesting, and compelling; http://askelm.com/star/star006.htm

  • WeeToddEdwards

    You're not a christian though, you prove that everyday <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • Eyes_Open

    You still haven't stated you facts, and you are still trying to change the subject. What's the matter, realize your flawed logic and now your trying to hide it?

  • Eyes_Open

    "I could label you 'smart' and it wouldn't be true. " True see how you have know idea what smart is. I will stick to the the three degrees and the several batteries of IQ test to elaborate on my intelligence.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Thansk for proving my point, you know nothing about. If you wear your buttons on your head roger expect me to push them. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • patriothere

    Were you looking in them mirror when you said that? You must be retarded. Either you're retarded or you are a troll.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I have. You?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Yes you do. That is your MO. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And I notice you didn't deny a single thing I pointed out.

    So you know I'm right.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    I prove you don't understand what Christ stood for.

  • Eyes_Open

    Well, got you there, I'm not an atheist. And it doesn't take much time.

    Beneficent, you call spending 1600 years slaughtering people that refused to convert beneficent? Go ahead, start ranting about Muslims doing the same thing today. Then, just for fun, look up what the Baptist in Africa are doing to their own kids, in the name of a Christian god.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course I have.You just can't keep up and want to spread the blame around for your 'stupid'.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Use your stupid words?How quaint. Does your women bosses know you're still playing on the computer? Shouldn't you be in their bathroom cleaning?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    No you don't <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    So you claim words like “yes” and “you” are stupid? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You're pagan.

    But you pretend to be a pro at your attacks on Christianity.

  • MikeGiles

    What are they doing and what doctrine of Christianity do they claim to be following? They fact that all Christians are not perfect, is not proof of Christianity is false. BTW, I see no doctrine in Christianity that calls for forced conversion along the lines of Islam for example.

  • intrcptr2

    Oh, dear, bhs3kgt, what will we ever do; he believes in patently false gods.
    Better beware before he puts a hex on us.

    God bless you brother. I do hope your spirit friends don't turn on you too roughly, when they do.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    They are alive and well. I already said that, please try and keep up <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So blind, so full of hate.

    You aren't in a positon to make that call.

  • Eyes_Open

    Then restate then, if you are capable. Remember, you are trying to prove that Josephus was alive during the life of and wrote about Jesus Christ in the contemporary. Good luck with that.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Still avoiding the facts as I described them?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    How many times would a silly pagan want me to repeat them? Trying to keep me busy so wee can get ahead?

    Yeah, good luck with that.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And still have no common horse sense.

    How sad. You realize you explain why so many reject the current education system?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Still deflecting. Still using straw man arguments.

    Isn't it time you go to lunch at your government office?

    Maybe you can get some mtn dew and fortify yourself for the rest of the day.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Of course I am. That is why I do it <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course you're not. You so misunderstand the teachings of Christ you think Hitler was a follower.

  • Eyes_Open

    And once again you refuse to state what you have never stated in the first place. Facts a little too hard for you to find? Or just too hard for you to swallow?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Tell that to the Jews Hitler Killed?
    We've clearly established that Hitler didn't follow the teachings of Christ. You have not shown a single teaching he remotely followed. You can't show where a single example in that list actually is doing what Christ wanted.

    So, you list the failings of Christianity and blame what on Christ?
    You are the angry mind that he pointed out. Do you want me to quote your comment about that night at 18 when you were arrested for being at a party with drugs and stuff?

  • RoguePatriot6

    Wee,
    Hitler was a madd man that needed a scapegoat for his own misery and he found one, The End. Christianity's teachings drove him to do what he did? No, his hatred did.

    Are the teachings of Islam driving what Islamists are dong right now? Yes it is. They are doing exactly what Muhammad told them to do, just as he did in 623 A.D.

    And as for God killing innocent people, wee, How could he have killed someone if He didn't exist in the first place? remember? You can't have it both ways and I would seriously do some research if you think these people were "innocent".

  • intrcptr2

    What physical evidence can you provide us to show that all those people were innocent (Of what were they innocent, I might also ask)?

    Game, set, …..

  • Eyes_Open

    Because public education turned out so many fools like you? My education wasn't on the public dole like yours was.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Still avoiding reality and using opinion roger <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Just acting like you <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Because he was <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Nope, what teaching of Christ made Hitler slaughter 6 million?

    Your'e still a failure on this.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    We have established that Hitler was a christians with documented evidence. That is all on this subject with you. Now donkey leave a comment. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Like you do? Of course not.

    So much blind hatred.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Why bother? You silly pagan, you'll just ignore it over and over again.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, becuase you were taught what to think but haven't showed you can think yourself.

    It's much the same with the staffers in this administration. Education in the classic sense avoids that trap.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee wee, you can be amusing. Not in a good way, but still amusing all the same.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, you haven't. You have kept saying that in Goebbels style.

    You have shown he was an opportunist that wanted the power the established church represented, You have not shown he follwed any teachings of Christ.

    That's the test, and you can't meet it so you deny the test has validity.
    You fail on this every time.

  • intrcptr2

    Really?

    You have film of Hitler confessing his sins, proclaiming the blood of Christ for redemption? You saw him getting baptized?
    You have receipts of his tithes at church? Even Bill Clinton carried a Bible to the national cathedral once or twice, got any shots of Hitler doing that?

  • Eyes_Open

    I can't ignore what you have never written, good bye moron.

  • Eyes_Open

    So I guess that is why you boast about how uneducated you are, because you avoided the "trap" of education. LOL

    Good bye ignorant Moron

  • wsk

    WeeTodd is more correct…..

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    In what ways?
    One was more specific, islam. Wee was a bit more overly general.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course you have.

    You have often said that all monotheisms were equal and then ignore when I point out that they aren't.

    Why would go feed the troll again on this?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Avoiding your pitfalls isn't anything of the sort.

  • guest

    hey wee wee, do you ever go after islam with the same gusto or are you too much of a coward?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    How many guesses you'll need to figure out who thumbed you down?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Not me. You have the hatred <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    I win on this everytime, nothing you say will change that <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • RoguePatriot6

    Trying to convince us, or yourself?

  • Eyes_Open

    And if one examines them thoroughly, and still rejects them, you still claim bias. In other words, anyone that doesn't agree with you, you claim is bias. Perhaps YOU are they one that is most bias, as proven by your actions, today and every day.

  • RoguePatriot6

    I never said they weren't "real" Christians. What I was referring to was the actual teachings of Jesus. He never condoned or taught such things.

    Muhammad did.

  • Chris_

    Stop humiliating yourself Weewee. You can find no justification for the crimes perpetrated by the Christians in the teachings of Jesus. What Christians do in Africa is not the fault of Jesus. These practices are animism not Christianity. They are practiced by the Christians in the name of Jesus, but they are not the teachings of Jesus. They are remnants of animism lingering in the psyche of the Africans.

  • RoguePatriot6

    Um…..how many times today, do we read, hear and see the kids and entire families suffer because of the foolishness of our nation's leaders or the stupidity of foolish parents who do foolish things?

    The more things change the more things stay the same.

  • intrcptr2

    Give me a break, man; you've already denied the Bible has any historical validity, you have disqualified it as evidence.

    Have another go.

    PS
    The simple fact that you spend all this time trying to refute it, proves that the Bible has not failed. I will leave the chapter and verse for you to find, since it appears you know your Bible inside and out.

  • RoguePatriot6

    No, he had hatred in his mind and heart and he or others may have used Christianity (twisted it to to say what they and others wanted to hear).

    From what I understand, Hitler was a professed atheist.

    "The intolerance against humans and religious wars committed before WWII comes from such abundant sources of Christian history that to deny an influential connection can only come from immeasurable ignorance."

    I never denied the connection. I will however deny the lie that it was a result of what Christ taught his diciples. Muhammad taught his followers exactly what you see all throughout the history of Islam and to deny that is WILLFUL ignorance.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course you. Readyoucomments.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Because of why? Because you two pretend to ignore the points I make?

    I understand you have to, in order to stick with your talking points. But it does show you both up as trolls.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, if they examine them based on real evidence they're entitled to their opinions. But not if they approach it ignoring real evidence and with a pre-determined agenda, then that makes them biased.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    But you're still wrong.
    There is all kinds of things, you just reject them and pretend they don't exist.

    Any evidence by nature is religious, so you toss it out.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    My my, temper temper.
    Wee wee, remember you were the one saying I had the hate, just within the last 5 comments you finished making.

    You really ought to stick to your story more.

    And why do you think Christians ignore it? Just because we don't car bomb our own doesn't mean we look the other way.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Not based on facts. But on the basis that you keep repeating yourself.

    You still didn't show a single teaching of Christ that led Hitler in his life.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And he still didn't follow a teaching of Christ.
    He was simply an opportunist greedy for the influence of organized religion.

  • intrcptr2

    Yes, thank you for proving my point.

    Hmm, one picture, exiting a church. Yeah, that proves, what, that Hitler was a tourist, liked architecture (Oh, yeah, he did fail at that bit), wore a brown coat? Fair enough. Although that one photo is rather underwhelming evidence. Why in the world do you have that sort of thing to hand in the first place? You have some fixation here?
    You do understand (I am pretty sure catechism covers this) that in order to determine who belongs to Christ, and who doesn't (hint, hint), one must first read the Bible to see what God commands, so that we can test the fruit? Hitler killed Jews as state policy. Therefore, it does not matter if was christened or not (Which is not baptism in the first place); he was not Christ's.

    Wow,
    you truly are stupid (No superlatives will help here, just plain stupid). That first link makes it clear that even the RCC recognized that Hitler's practices and actions were/are contrary to church teaching, meaning that Der Fuhrer was not Catholic, much less Christian.

    So what is your excuse? Or rather, what do you intend to chat over with Herr Schicklgruber when you meet him?

  • patriothere

    Hitler was born a christian and came from a christian background but he grew out of it and became a pagan. He was deep into norse mythology and nordic paganism just like Himmler was.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You haven't listened a single time when dozens of folks have explained this very thing?

    You are a troll because you won't listen and simply come here to antagonize people.

  • intrcptr2

    Taught what things, killing?

    No, he did not. You really ought to read the Bible, rather than relying on your memory of the Catechism.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yes, actually Luke and Matthew were from the original authors themselves. John was written by the author himself only Mark was possibly written for Peter. You simply don't understand Christianity enough to make these kinds of comments.

    Why are you so filled with hate that you keep attacking Christianity like this?
    Are you a muslim cleric out to weaken your enemies or what?

  • intrcptr2

    Wrong again.
    By 140 (Slightly earlier than your hero here) Marcion was already truncating the canon, which means that there was an accepted list of NT documents (My own take on the canon is radically different than most; http://www.askelm.com/restoring/).

    It is a really bad argument to take Irenaeus as establishing canon here. A better reading is that this is an explanation for WHY those churches accepted only the four.

  • dfss

    The bible has more evidence then any other book in the world. If it was given fair judgment people would see that it is the more accurately proven than books like The Origin of Species.

    The Bible is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt as an accurate historical book.
    Try looking it up and reading about it. If you ever read about anything Wee.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Poor wee we.
    Those dates don't matter. You keep trying to make a huge deal out of them, but so what?

    They were written as eye witness accounts. You can attack them all you want, but you can't show they are wrong.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You don't understand, and you're showing either you ignorance, or your bigotry.

    'Saint' meant something different at the time of Jesus than the Orthodox churches have made it today.

    You resort to these word games to sound intellectual wee wee, and you have nothing of substance. Big words don't always equate to big ideas.

  • intrcptr2

    Ah, fairy tales, like the big bang and evoultion, In presume?

    No, Wee, you have not grown up. Sadly, I shall be surprised if you ever do. Being angry at life (God, in fact) must really suck.

    PS
    I've already pointed out why your poor attempt at subtlety (Or is this meant to be insight?) fails.

  • Eyes_Open

    But you seem to be the one to declare what is and isn't "real" evidence to you satisfaction, and we all know that you are bias. To you, stories written down decades or centuries after the event supposedly took place is "real " evidence, but written, government records, recorded at the time of the event aren't "real" evidence because they don't back up your predetermined conclusions. You are incapable of judging this matter, as you are just as bias as the worst of your opposition, maybe more so.

  • RoguePatriot6

    Blame our God? No, you see, that's what irresponsible people do after they get burned from the results of their own foolisness, like you.

    Wise or responsible adults realize that they are at fault, not God.

    Only immature kids blame others for their shortcomings, hince peoples attitudes that "it's God's fault".

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Why does God allow anything?
    Ask him yourself some day. Or you might read the story of Job. You know the one in the Bible before Psalms.

    And why do you keep repeating that saying over and over? The ten Commandments have not passed away, you know the one that text was talking about. You simply won't admit to enough to carry on an intelligent conversation.

    You're just out to antagonize everyone. It's the kind of thing a small little man does.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You need to stop the hate. It not only blinds you, it smells up the room for everyone else.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You have denounced every link I've used here today, who are you to say you have that right but not anyone else?

    A little big headed are we?

    And I just explained my reasoning. I notice you didn't actually show why any of that was wrong. Also Pontius Pilate was a government employee, so why do you ignore what he had to say later in his life?

    You're simply just as much a bigot as wee.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    According to your bible he is the cause of this and he knows you will do it when you are born. What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor. See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not. I find it funny that God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them. Does not the old saying “practice what you preach” apply to God? Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin? Could it perhaps be both? Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No. It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor.” (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.) This argument uses a double standard. Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while God is held innocent for doing exactly the same. In fact, it would be far easier for God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You don't debate it.
    You have never actually debate it. You insult it, denounce it then pretend the conversation never happened.

  • RoguePatriot6

    Once again, something taken out of context.

    Matthew 25:35 was teaching that we should help others when we can. It taught compassion. And who said that God doesn't help the poor? Why have you come that conclusion, because in your limited sight and wisdom (assuming you have any) can't see the fact that he is. Did he not also say, you will always have poor among you?

  • patriothere

    Christian doctrine says convert the non beleivers, and they have done that since the beginning of the doctrine was built by the romans. Convert the non beleivers by the sword according to christian doctrine.

  • patriothere

    You have a proven track record of being a liar. Time and time again you have been proven to be a liar and pathological one at that.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Maybe you should look at all the pictures????? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    He was always a chirstian. He never once denounced it and was always supported by the church. Th eonly evidence ever presented is his 'table talks” and we all knwo why they can't be trusted. <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    That's the muslim test. Anyone that changes gets that apostate thing and risks being stoned.

    Christianity is different. You iranian centric muslim friendly types are threatening to murder a Christian minister on just those grounds.

    And you wonder why the world considers you barbarians?
    I can see if you expel him and his family from the country, but to murder him? So much for allah pretending to be merciful.

  • intrcptr2

    pretend; indeed.

  • RoguePatriot6

    Read Romans, we are no longer justified by the law.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You are still failing. You take this instruction to the ancient Jews and think it's equal to the Law God wrote on stone on a mountain in a moment so moving they couldnt' even approach the mountain?The ten commandments stand, this? Even the Jews don't keep it.So anything else I can school you on again and again and again? This point has been explained to you over and over. It's just your mulishness that keeps you coming back to more pounding on it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course he is.
    You are the one that has been shown dozens of times not to be lining up facts.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    If it means he can insult Christians, he' deny the existence of the vatican.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you have a track record of being a hired mouth piece, remember saying this?

    6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
    "I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out."

    You are a 'rented mouth' and frankly you're the third string attack dog on this story. Doesn't that bother you?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Well, those sources may not have edited his work with the Christian Coptic church.

    So, you still fail.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you are just an iranian centric muslim friendly troll that can't even remember how to use your own profile.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    He talked, other's wrote. You know like any business man who has a secretary do dictation?

    This isn't you day is it?

  • mlcblog

    OK. And I shall enjoy his presence daily. Jesus died so we could have the loving presence of God with us always.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, that's not Christian doctrine. You know like your muslim doctrine teaches.
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/9/

    9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Maybe you should learn what it means for someone to actually be a Christian? Hmm?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    He was never a Christian. He never followed the teachings of Christ. until you understand what Christianity is really about, you'll never understand it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    He pretends that the ancient Jewish stuff that the Jews don't follow are our marching orders.

    He takes that one text about heaven and earth and the "Law" of God (the ten commandments) as meaning everything God ever told that old group leaving Egypt.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Have the heaven and earth passed away? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, used by Christians because our God is nice.

    See how you have that backwards?
    Now, if it really is violence in religion that bothers you, why on a story about islam have you not mentioned this once?

    9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You are wrong. Thanks for not bothering us with another link.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You are always angry and you haven't shown He is a false God.
    You didn't bother with any link (thankfully) and you always mean jack.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    We're pretty much safe now. Wee is the opener on this three legged stool. He comes in hating religion and closes down after business hours. His side kick eyes helps when he's floundering (again) and patriot circles like the tail flies waiting for a chance. Being a coward he usually waits until everyone is gone for the day. The fact all three were pounding on the same story means they were on the run. And they knew how lame they were all looking.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yet that's what you're here doing.

    What was a great story on a timely subject was derailed by you and your hatred and bigotry.
    Instead of a new discussion you made it into a rehash of you same old sad song that's been shown wrong over and over.

    Your unwillingness to learn gets boring.

  • RoguePatriot6

    Exactly,

    "I had a bad brush with people who new the scriptures but didn't know the substance therefore it's all evil or detremental to a civil socieity. I say this because I too don't understand nor believe" -Lib/progs mentality

    The question that kind of begs to be answered is "If I do something evil in your name, does that make you evil?" Or "does that make me twisted and pathetic in my attempt to justify the evil that I do?" hmmmmmmm……

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Let's ask wee wee. I'll go light a candle at the local Catholic church in his name so he will be forced into being a Catholic like Hitler was!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And why are you even more obstinate?

    Why do you get so determined to keep me and my faith suppressed?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    I only insult those who insult me. You argument is common when I have people backed into the corner. Are you upset because you could not challenge any of my facts? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    How could he have seen him after he died? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    So how can he be an eye witness? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    MichaelGleghorn? Really? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • aspacia

    First hand accounts, just as Cicero's first hand account of Caesar are considered valid.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Obviously you know nothing about me. I hate the left. I love how you described islam and I agree. The thing I don't agree with is this is excatlly how Christianity used to be until they took over.

    Christianity or any other faith based religion for that matter has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with Islam, especially since Islam is not a religion. Hence, stop trying to change the subject by morally equating Islam with being a religion as that is moral relativism and PC multiculturalism run amuck. The subject of Spencer's book was the origins of Islam, not the origins of Christianity.

    Moreover, how many Christian states are there in the world relative to Islamic Sharia totalitarian states? The answer is there are zero Christian states in the world because Christianity is a religion. Meanwhile, there are 22 Islamic Sharia totalitarian states in the Middle East alone, because Islam is a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology as opposed to being a religion.

    If because of moral relativism and PC multiculturalism you feel you must morally equate Islam with something, then morally equate Islam with Communism, as Islam like Communism seeks world domination, and the end result of Islam, exactly like Communism, is totalitarianism, poverty, despair, oppression, and lots and lots of misery.

  • Ricky Michael

    Would you please get your facts straight. Christians in the Bible slaughtered no one. Atheists like Mao and Stalin, now these are ones to go after. These are some real criminals.

    Mr. Edwards, shame on you. The only people who killed following God's commands were the Hebrews in the Old Testament and that was administering God's judgement against the nations. When you make outrageous statements like that it only looks like you are just trying to stir the pot up, which you are in fact doing. My, my as Roger says.

    One of these days the Fellow in the clouds is going to have a word with you.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Yes, Islam is classified as the second largest religion in the world.

    By who? You and other loons?

    Your opinion on that means nothing. I equate it with Christianity because Christianity in is infant stage was almost exactly the same

    Well if what you claim is true that you hate and despise the Left, then obviously you must be a Ron Paul anarcho kook. Hence, it doesn't matter, as either way you are a moonbat, as your perception has not only been very seriously impacted by moral relativism and PC multiculturalism, but you are also more than just a little unhinged and warped at the same time.

    In any event, Christianity in its infancy was never remotely similar to Islam, as you obviously have had your ignorance's exploited to the hilt. Nevertheless, Christianity or any other faith-based religions for that matter isn't the subject of this thread. The origins of Islam, on the other hand, is. Hence, if you want to go debate your propagandist fake version of Christianity, then go debate it somewhere else with other anarcho kooks, moonbats, loons, and assorted flakes. This is a serous debate forum.

    They slaughtered anyone who got in their way as commanded by the bible. Once they took over they wrote book saying slaughtering is wrong now that we are dominate. Religions have done some good but have also slaughtered millions of innocent people over which false god they think is in the clouds

    Excuse me, but fortunately for me I was smart enough not to have my ignorance's exploited to the hilt the same way you did.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    I don't humor severely mentally incompetent moonbats. Life is too short.

  • Ricky Michael

    "Christians in the Bible slaughtered no one."

    I could care less what the apostates did. Please give me book, chapter and verse about the christians.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Looks like you're being owned all over again today.

    Wee, can't you admit you're a moron and move along?

  • Ricky Michael

    Sure I do, that's why I asked you.

    Now, since there are only Christians in the New Testament, and, they followed the teachings in the NT, then show me where the "Christian Church" used NT scripture to Kill people. I want book, chapter and verse. Don't go quoting Old Testament scriptures that pertained strictly to the Hebrews. I want to hear where the Christians were told to go do this in the NT.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Exactly. You just admitted that you have nothing, that you're still posting on this not because you have a point, but because you have other issues.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you can't blame that on his following the teachings of Christ.

    Once again you can't show he would have done all that even if he hadn't been a Christian.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Isn't it eyes that defends and attacks on behalf of the pagans?

    You two ought to get your stories straight.
    You still haven't shown that Christ taught them to do this. That they were following His teachings in doing this.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Why shouldn't the crusades defend fellow believers from muslim invaders?
    You're being disingenuous by ignoring the atrocities the muslims were committing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    All those that were slain were invaders and were there conquering the byzantine empire.

    Self defense is not a moral failing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    All this multi part rant.

    You know you're owned, don't you?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You already admitted you were wrong, why are you still posting?
    If it's to prove your a jerk we already know that.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You already admitted that you have nothing. Why the whining?

    Are you in your second childhood and wanting to be as irritating as you were the first time?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    All this rambling.
    You are really disturbed, aren't you?

    You really are a hate filled bigot.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Evidently ignorance isn't your problem. You already admitted that this wasn't due to what Christ taught. So, bad manners and a disregard for facts is your calling.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, you don't. You might have heard some things, but you don't understand it a bit.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And your argument is common with people who don't have a clue what self respect might be.

  • aspacia

    I did challenge your claim/facts, and first hand accounts are valid.

    Deist, Historian

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So, what does that have to do with anything?
    First hand accounts are generally accepted. Since you can't show any of those first hand accounts weren't really wrong, all the rest is just you deflecting and behaving like an immature child.

  • aspacia

    I understand your point, but the fact remains that there is geological evidence for a world-wide flood, and archeological evidence regarding the ancient Israelites, albeit, zero evidence of Moses and the exodus exist in Egypt from any time. Also, most Christian celebrations are on pagan festival days and no one knows when Jesus was born.

    A Deist

  • aspacia

    Nearly forgot, first hand accounts are often considered valid, just as the primary source accounts of Masada and other events are considered valid.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Yes, like an immature child.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you are too.
    That doesn't make it a good thing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course you did.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So then you must be a jerk.

    Mohammed probably existed.
    That doesn't make him right.

  • mlcblog

    not so much

    Their guy is a moon god, made in the mud. You can read it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    They explained what they saw and heard.
    They never said they could explain it, outside of a living God.

  • mlcblog

    Good question.

    This happened through spiritual power. Invisible but obvious.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Since you were not there, you're not an eye witness and can't claim to know it's not true. So, any other tests you want to put out that you can't pass yourself?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    WeetoddEdwards? Really?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You haven't even passed away.
    And you still haven't shown that the ancient instructions
    apply to modern Christians, the ten commandments do, and they were repeated in the new testament as well.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And his point still stands, so you just wanted to hear your own keyboard didn't you?

  • Ricky Michael

    Now let's talk about the definition of an apostate. My view of one is an apostate is a person who does an action in the name of religion which is directly contrary to the teachings in the NT. We both know that driving cars is not a Bible concept. Stay on topic.

    Your favorite person, Mr. Hitler, is as good as an example of one as you can get. He was a catholic apostate. There have been and are catholic christians, but this fellow falls into the first catagory.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Unlike islam it's between them and God.
    It's really none of your concern.

  • Ricky Michael

    So now let's talk about "Judging." It is not judging when a person compares "Actions" against "Teachings" in the NT. That, is an obvious conclusion whether something is right or wrong.

    An example of "Judging" is when a person decides that someone else doesn't love God. No one can truly know the heart of someone else. But, when that person starts to act in a manner that is contary to scripture, you can tell that person that they are behaving badly. That is commended in the NT for helping that person to correct his behavior.

  • Ricky Michael

    Once saved always saved is based on the Calvinist principle of T.U.L.I.P. P=Perseverance of the saints.

    The NT. warns to take heed lest ye fall. One can turn away from God and be lost, contarty to the teachings of John Calvin.

    And, do you love or hate God? Let's assume he does exist for once. Which is it?

  • Ricky Michael

    Just in case you are wondering.
    T = Total Depravity
    U = Unconditional Election
    L = Limited Atonement
    I = Irresistible Grace
    P = Perseverance (or Preservation) of the Saints

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You still want to connect God's will and Hitler.

    Job is a story in the Bible about God allowing bad things to show Satan was the one who enjoyed it and wanted to impose more of it, that God only allows it in specific cases.

    You don't know the Bible well enough to understand it, and certainly not well enough to make judgement calls.

  • Ricky Michael

    You have that ability, to choose, because God gives all of us the Free will of choice. Your choice is to reject, thus your heart matches your actions. The people you get on to for "Judging You" are properly assessing your actions against the teachings in the NT.

    Don't be telling them they are judging you any more.

    Also, the creator can make the rules whether you like them or not. You, being a creation, must obey your creator. When you don't, then expect to be punished for it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Speaking of irrelevant, any more side trips to muslim websites so you can try to make me look bad?

    That was fun!

    Now, do you want to ignore the role of evil and pretend that God deserves the blame for the bad things? God is the one who warns us not to do evil and to avoid the bad things in life.

    If anyone doesn't deserve the blame it's Him.

  • Ricky Michael

    Yet freewill exists, no one is making you do anything. It's your choice. You can't deny something that is.

    Your only hope is that God does not exist. Because if he does, then all Hell will break loose upon you one day. I would rather you go fishing with me in heaven someday instead.

    That is a freewill choice you get to make.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    It seems he's not so much against free will, he wants his. But he's agains the consequences of his actions coming back to haunt him later.

    And it's easier to blame that on God.

  • Ricky Michael

    As I said, he made the rules. You are simply choosing which results you want. You apparently perfer Bar-B-Ques. (Poor taste humor)

  • Ricky Michael

    I made my choice. I chose the one Son of God who can save my soul. No others offered me that.

  • Ricky Michael

    True, one thing we agree on.

  • Eyes_Open

    Matthew 21:19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

    20And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

    As you have said to me, this is allegorical, it was Jesus showing that if you didn't do as he commanded and follow him, he would see your death by his hands. Or at least that is the what the church has used as an excuse for hundreds of years to kill anyone that wouldn't convert.

  • Ricky Michael

    Killing a tree and killing a man are not the same thing.

    There is a closer allegory than that.

    Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 7:18-20 He is not speaking about "trees" here. It's people.

  • Eyes_Open

    Exactly, people. If you don't like what they are doing, kill them and throw the bodies into the fire. Right there in the New Testament. And from this you got the inquisition, and "witch" burnings, and the slaughter of anyone that refused to convert.

    Again Jesus showing his power to punish those who wouldn't follow blindly.

  • WeeToddEdwards

    It is because this site is a more of a chirstian web site. I do the same on islamic ones as well <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WeeToddEdwards

    Oh soooooo very obvious. Jim Jones claimed to have seen jesus as well. Do you believe him too?

  • WeeToddEdwards

    They are not vaild. Do you believe Jim Jones saw jesus as well? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • Ricky Michael

    This is what happens After we die. It is not authorization for men to do it here on earth. That would be a violation of scripture. You cannot interpet one verse to contradict another.

    No doubt there have been people who do just any old thing they want and try to justify it with scripture, which they pervert the mean of. But, that doesn't make them right in God's eyes. God is not mocked, he will rightly judge those who do that kind of thing.

    Jesus, through him all things were made. Being creator, he can make the rules we live by. You may not like his rules, but you must follow them none the less. He also, died a horrible death to free his children of the coming judgment. Even if you don't like it, it is coming anyway.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And you can't show any of that is from the teachings of Christ.

    So it's just hate speech brought on by your blind bigotry.
    Anything else?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Nazism was not formed off the teachings of Christ.
    The sad thing is you'll make that up now, and pretend because you used it in a multi-part rant that it's a proven fact. It's a non fact and you're not showing a thing from fascism is based on the teachings of Christ.

    You take the dark moments that show how important it is to focus on the teachings of Christ to be a successful Christian. Then take those to show what? That Christianity is bad? That's wrong at it's core.

    You are flawed in your argument since you can't show anything you actually hate Christianity for and tie it to what Christ taught.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So what, that proves nothing. You were born after your ancestors died.
    Does that mean none of them existed?

    How can you pretend that makes a difference? Are you saying historians can only research things that happen in their lifetime?

    And you can't show that Stalin and Mao followed the teachings of Christ. That flawed argument makes no sense and yet you pretend it's a relevant fact. It's not.

    You can't tie anything you hate about failed Christians to the actual teachings of Christ. So you fail.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    It's been laid out for you over and over.

    If you are blinded by hatred and bigotry and refuse to accept proof, don't blame us.
    Look inward.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Really?
    Then why is it you can't show a single teaching of Christ that agreed with the evil of Hitler, Stalin, Mao?

    You can't actually line up Christian teachings and the things you blame on Christianity.
    You know only the talking points most hate filled clerics use, nothing more.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Says the paid rented mouth?

    Did your handler have help coming up with that?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Let's see. This is from the guy who has all that plus the added freebies of hate and bigotry.

    As if you're a roll model? Just ignore all the good the largest religion did for the past 100 years or so, ignore the evil of the religion actually forcing people into things, that uses suicide bombers and then pretend to be sane?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Of course they're valid. You just don't like them since it exposes you for a person blinded by bigotry.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    It sure does go towards the argument the Bible lays out history in an accurate manner.

    Oh, you want to ignore that.
    Bigotry is strong in you.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    He will argue with you for hundreds of comments. Then when you've ridden him hard and parked him wet he'll go away angry then come back tomorrow claiming victor and ignoring every single point you've carefully laid out.

    It's just what he does. Do you know how many people I've seen dismantle his points on Hitler doing evil because he was a 'Christian"? That's gone of since his earliest comments.

    It's as if there is an angry cleric whispering in his ear.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Did he live the teachings of Christ?

    You pretend that's not an issue.

    It is the basis for deciding if someone is a Christian.

  • mlcblog

    God put in each of us the ability to recognize Truth. This becomes active when someone accepts God and then the Holy Spirit resides within and we can discern what is true and get past our damages to enjoy a life of inner peace.

  • Eyes_Open

    How do you get that this was intended to represent that this is what happens after we die. He killed the "tree" on earth, in front of earthly witnesses. He didn't say this will happen after you die, he said this is what happens when you disobey me. He cursed the tree "now" why wouldn't people think that they would be cursed "now". And that it was their duty to do the same in his name, he never said "do as I say, not as I do".

    Christians are suppose to be strive to be Christ-like, so why wouldn't they follow his examples and curse (kill) any that disobeyed?

  • Ricky Michael

    Really?

    Yep, that's right I run around cursing every fig tree I find that doen't have figs on it. But they never listen to me and just keep on living. Oh well.

    If what you say is true, then with Christians being as devout as they are, typically, then you should start fearing for your life right now. You are in grave danger. Is this Really the way you feel? Come on, you are not that nieve. I know how smart you are.

  • Eyes_Open

    Ok, I'll tackle this one piece at a time.

    The quote IS from the Bible, you are the one who quoted it. That is what it states, and many churches have used that scripture to justify their deeds.

    "with Christians being as devout as they are" this one can be debated, but the census and polling show that for the most part people that list themselves as Christians aren't very "devout" to their religion.

    "You are in grave danger. Is this Really the way you feel?" Yes, very often. Me and groups that I have worshiped with have been run out of camp sites at gun point, I have personally been threatened many times with physical harm just because of my religion, not because of anything I was actually doing. That is why I always have a firearm and a blade with me.

    Neither of us is nieve, but you should know, these things do still happen with a fair amount of regularity. But if your not a part of the group being harassed you generally see it as a one time isolated event, regardless of how many times you see it happen.

  • Ricky Michael

    You are right, I have not been chased out of a park at gun point. But, neither myself or any of the Christians that I run around with have done the gun pointing either. You can't place everyone into that catagory.

    But, here is a fact that you should also acknowledge. There is a growing WTE attitude toward Christians in this country that is happening right now. I have been persecuted for what I believe, by non-christians. I was even fired from my job because I wouldn't lie for my boss, that would have been against my beliefs. So, placing me cart blanche with these people who have done this to you wouldn't be the correct thing to do. It's always good to assess each person indivually.

    There are a whole lot of "religious" people on this site who can't stand me and my by the book view of the Bible. It messes with their very liberal view.

  • Eyes_Open

    I do judge each person by their action, but groups are judged by their most outspoken members.

    Yes, I do acknowledge the growing backlash in the country against Christians. I blame two things on this action. One, the groups that are conducting the "backlash" have, for the most part, been suppressed by the Christian majority for centuries and only now, with technology opening up the small communities to a larger audience, do they feel safe enough to stand up for themselves. Two, the Christian extremist are becoming more extreme in their attempts to push everyone, demanding that they are the only right ones. (Westboro Baptist are the perfect example).

    The two feed off one another until it comes to a head and violence ensues.

    Refusing to lie isn't just a Christian value, I had to step down from a management position when I worked for a division of Siemens International because I refused to lie to my workers to get them to put in more overtime.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    No, the two don't and violence doesn't need to ensue.

    You pretend that Christians don't follow the teachings of Christ. Those teachings don't lead to violence, a lack of following them does.

  • Ricky Michael

    I don't see it the same way you do. All of us are biased by their belief system. It's a fact of the way we are.

    BTW, your buddy, Mr. Edwards is over on Pakistan Today website insulting Muslims now. He is going to have them after him now.

  • Jesusinator

    What makes your god any more real than the other thousands of god man has made up? <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • Eyes_Open

    LOL, oh now that is just funny. I'll have to check in on him when I get the time. Well, at least he is an equal opportunity insulter.

  • Eyes_Open

    I pretend no such thing, this thread is about the fact that such Christians are following Christ example. In the story, he kills the fig tree because it wouldn't obey him, and then told his followers that this is the way it should be. So the Christian followers have been killing people that wouldn't obey them and convert ever since.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Still trying to jump through hoops and don't see the difference between plants and people?

    And Christians are not doing what you say. When did Christians curse non Christians and then watch them die after they left and came back the next morning? Is that a vatican ceremony that has gone unreported?

  • aspacia

    He is just another angry atheist liberal with no rational thought.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    More angry than anything.
    But you're right he has no rational thoughts.

  • mlcblog

    You can search it for yourself.

  • Eyes_Open

    Let's see, dunking people in a river to see if they drowned. If they did then they were innocent, if they didn't they were agents of Satan and were killed. Or pressing them to death with piles of stones to get them to confess, if they confess the church killed them if they didn't the weight of the rocks did. I can go on and on with examples of how the Christian Churches, organizations, and people have use the Bible to justify murdering innocent people for hundreds of years. All of these are historically documented by both the Churches and the secular government, on top of contemporary historians of the times.

  • Jesusinator

    I have, I found nothing <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And where does Christ teach any of that? So, you show when you deviate from Christ's teachings it gets goofy really fast.

    You haven't shown real Christianity is a bad thing at all.

    You silly, silly pagans. Are human sacrifices any better than what you talked about?

    How come you can lecture about monotheisms and ignore what you silly pagans do?

  • Eyes_Open

    No one of MY religion has ever sacrificed anyone, or killed them for not converting, to crushed them because we "thought" the devil might be in them. You can't honestly claim the same thing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You just lumped all Christians together, so why shouldn't I lump all pagans together?

    And pagans have a long history of human sacrifice. Not even the chance of innocence protecting the child / infant sacrifices done for Baal or molok.

  • Eyes_Open

    Like I've told you a 100 times, you ignorant fool, Christianity is a religion, Pagan is a classification. You are comparing apples to oranges. But them again you probably can't tell the difference between them either.

    Wiccans have never sacrificed anything to anyone. Christians have killed to force conversion.

    Facts are not your friends. but then again, no one is your friend. Poor pathetic Woger, failed author, fail husband, failed businessman, failed pastor, failed blogger, and now failed Christian.

    Too FAILED for me to waste anymore of my time on.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    And I've explained to you 101 times that Christianity is a classification of different relations. Orthodox churches don't like or deserve to be lumped together with pentecostal religions.

    So, both are classifications of religions.

    And since you lump mine together I return the favor, you silly silly pagan you.

    How goes all those human sacrifices?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You have your own flavor, mixed with double the normal hate.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Unfortunately.
    You sound like you even consider it a good thing.