Netanyahu’s Red Line

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As for sanctions, Netanyahu said they had “had an effect. Oil exports have been curbed and the Iranian economy has been hit hard. It’s had an effect on the economy, but we must face the truth. Sanctions have not stopped Iran’s nuclear program either.”

As he noted: “According to the International Atomic Energy Agency, during the last year alone, Iran has doubled the number of centrifuges in its underground nuclear facility in Qom.”

That left one thing, Netanyahu said, that could stop the mullahs’ march to nukes: “a clear red line.”

Such a red line, he averred, had proved effective when President Kennedy had drawn one during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and could have proved effective against the Nazis if the Western powers had troubled to draw one during the 1930s. But what, in the case of Iran’s nuclear program, would constitute a red line?

It could not be, Netanyahu asserted, the production of a nuclear detonator—something that, in a vast country like Iran, could be achieved in a workshop the size of a classroom, beyond intelligence agencies’ power to detect. Instead, “a red line must be drawn first and foremost in one vital part of their program: on Iran’s efforts to enrich uranium.”

But hasn’t Iran already enriched a lot of uranium, directly flouting the now more-or-less forgotten 2006 UN Security Council Resolution that treated uranium enrichment itself as a red line?

Netanyahu, of course, acknowledged that Iran had already progressed far down the uranium-enrichment road—and used a diagram to clarify where things stand today. The basic message he conveyed with the diagram: Iran has already produced enough low-enriched uranium; it is already “well into the second stage” of producing medium-enriched uranium, beyond which lies only a third stage of having enough high-enriched uranium for the first bomb; and Iran has to be stopped—the red line has to be drawn—at the completion of that second stage of medium enrichment.

When would Iran be completing that stage? It would be, Netanyahu said, “by next spring, at most by next summer.”

Three things should be pointed out here.

First, by treating a certain stage of enrichment as the red line rather than the actual construction of a bomb, Netanyahu appears to be amplifying a known disagreement with the Obama administration, which has claimed that intelligence would be able to detect a final sprint to the bomb so that military forces could stop it in time—a position with which Israel has strenuously disagreed.

Second, in positing a quite-high level of uranium enrichment as the red line and next spring or summer as the end point, Netanyahu appears to be significantly moderating the message he and Defense Minister Ehud Barak have been conveying since late 2011, which has often made an Israeli attack sound imminent and the existing situation sound nearly if not actually intolerable. Netanyahu appears thereby to be lessening Israeli pressure and allowing more time to iron out differences, and adopt a joint approach, with the U.S. administration.

But, third, the question that remains is: what happens if (as seems likely if not predictable) Netanyahu’s demand for a red line is not fulfilled by Washington? Netanyahu’s speech on Thursday could, in other words, be viewed as either a last warning before an Israeli attack or—by leaving the red-line demand as another ongoing talking point, but not a real ultimatum—a way to back off from one.

Which of those the speech actually was, only time will tell.

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  • 333maxwell

    The whole zany bomb graphic looks like a Mad Magazine 'Spy vs Spy' illustration.

    And of course the 'wick' adds credibility to the whole 'Nuclear' thing.. My goodness.

    • WildJew

      A simple bomb graphic is necessary for United Nations delegates who it seems have difficulty grasping even the most elementary concepts like genocide-inciting, apocalyptic, Holocaust-denying, etc.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dana.harbaugh.94 Dana Harbaugh

        And for the "47%" who get their current event information from Lady Gaga and Snooki. How about this?… Maybe the PM will pull a fast one and say.. "Ooops, we decided to move the "red line" up closer… the bombing will commence immediately.

        • trickyblain

          I find it hard — very hard — to believe that the majority of folks who read this website are affluent.

          My housekeeper, who clings on every word Rush utters, actually thinks she's not part of Romney's '47 percent."

          • Drakken

            Your denial of reality really shows your complete disconnect from the real world.

          • trickyblain

            Hey! You didn't threaten to kill anyone or suggest dire things happening to those you disagree with. Progress!

          • Drakken

            I have never threatened anyone, I am simply stating what is going to happen as events transpire.

          • fiddler

            Hey tricky, are you any relation to "Tricky Dicky"?

          • trickyblain

            Not that I know of. But I am a member of the Pratt family out of Utah, which, sadly, makes me a distant cousin of Willard Romney.

          • Rifleman

            If she's working for you Tricky, she's probably not one of Romney's 47% Nice to 'see' you and know you're doing well, btw. We're exporting parts we make to China now, so you know I'm getting by.

          • trickyblain

            Nice to see you too, RM. Glad to hear you're exporting to China; they are in dire need of quality machining. I spent all day last Saturday putting together some exercise equipment from Everlast (which I wrongly thought was USA made). Faulty fasteners eventually made me swap them out at the local hardware store that reminds me of the one I worked at in college. Seems there's no pride in workmanship in China (or any communist country, for obvious reasons).

            As far as the 47 percent goes, I find the term patently offensive (I don't offend very easily). My parents worked hard and did very well; they paid into Social Security for decades and decades. They are part of the "dependent" 47 percent for getting back what they paid into. Of course there's also my friend/coworker that spent over 20 years as a NCO nuke tech on aircraft carriers for the Navy. He gets a pension — tell him he's dependent and you'll get a salty reaction. But Mitt never hung around those types. Likewise, I sincerely doubt my housekeeper pays income taxes in April; she likely gets a return. Dependent?

            Nice to have a civil conversation in this crazy atmosphere…thanks bud.

          • reader

            normal people find it offensive that marxists are destroying the country by employing demagoguery machine and outright plunder. and, by the way, people who don't pay taxes, are not paid into anything. but look at the standard demagoguery: when marxists spread the wealth, they spend the money on acorn, free cell phones to leaches and cronies at solyndras. but they always blame conservatives for trying to hurt veterans, policemen and firefighters, when in fact they are the ones syphoning money from their safety net. same with medicare.

          • Drakken

            Unfortunately, as our economy sinks into the abyss and islam is on the march, events will be anything but civil. I am just curious as to how you see things? If you see them as staying static and everything will be just fine? I am going to have to disagree with you. We are entering some interesting times to say the least.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

      Yes, it's just another clear issue Obama will ignore for his militant muslim friends.

  • Stephan

    Eric Margolis writes: … Twenty years ago, in 1992, Netanyahu declared Iran would deploy nuclear weapons in 3-5 years. In 1995, Israeli officials warned Iran would have nuclear arms by 2000. In 1998, US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned that Iran would have intercontinental ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads by 2003 that could strike the United States. Netanyahu now insists Iran will have nukes within a year. US intelligence denies this claim. Even biased UN nuclear inspectors say Iran has no nukes. …

    • Dr. John

      Netanyahu’s account of the current situation is based on reports of the IAEA, which under Yukiya Amano is an objective body beholden to no government. The main reason it has taken Iran this long to approach the nuclear threshold is that sabotage actions slowed them down, without ultimately stopping them. Obviously, Iran continues to invest great resources in its nuclear program despite debilitating sanctions. If this doesn’t light a red light, nothing will.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

      And twenty years ago this maniacal iranian president was tooling around in his beat up 1974 Peugeot 504 and not buying thousands of centrifuges.

    • trickyblain

      1998? Clinton's SoD was Rumsfeld?

  • clarespark

    I don't agree with the premise that the beginning of Netanyahu's speech was creaky at all. His drawing of the conflict between Israel and that of Iran and the Arab States as encompassed in the clash of modernity versus medievalism was exactly how I have formulated the major conflict of our time. Here is a recent example: http://clarespark.com/2012/09/08/what-is-a-materi…. "What is a materialist." Also http://clarespark.com/2012/09/25/thought-police-o…. "Thought Police on Fox."

    • WilliamJamesWard

      You know the add is against all Jihadists and does not say all Muslims but all Muslims are Jihadists.
      A savage by any other name is still a savage and PC is one of the greatest evils of our time, FOX
      and it's effort to be fair and balanced winds up with a demoralizing equivalncy which debases the
      truth……………………………..William

  • SHmuel HaLevi

    Perhaps you all would like a short report from the swamp, were the real McCoy is. We are it in Eretz Israel.
    For the informed, and I am a former US Department of Defense Military Avionics Programs Senior-Fellow Engineer with extended training otherwise… The speech was utterly irrelevant to knowledgeable Israelis, starting with a very poor first part including certain BL signs I prefer not extend upon and ending with a nonsensical cartoon lined red with an erasable marker. 90% of what? Iran has mastered tube triggers and quite likely the trigger charges. It has enough 20% U235 to make a very simple nuclear bomb probably similar to the one originally tested by NK. Iran was there for the test. Iran will soon if not now move to 55-60% and from there to 85-90% soon after.
    The UN watchdog wants to visit Parchin. All believe the Iranians tested there Polonium triggers.
    So the "90%" cartoon means what?
    At the time of imminent nuclear dangers silly charts have no place. That is why I propose that it was a very intelligent misdirection act. I HOPE SO…

    • WildJew

      Israel's prime minister appears to be placing his faith in the goodwill and the assurances of the United States on Iran. Hope I am wrong. This, I believe, would prove a deadly error. I don't think the Americans (leaders or the people) see a nuclear Iran as either an existential threat or a mortal threat to the United States. George W. Bush sent his surrogates out (Admiral Mike Mullen, etc.) to warn Israel off attacking Iran's nuclear sites. How much more Barack Obama? Obama's sympathies are clearly with Islam and I believe Iran's Mullahs. Obama did nothing to help the green movement when they begged him to take their side against the regime, yet he demanded Mubarak step down immediately to make way for Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Obama is furthering the most extreme interpretation of Islam in the region and not by accident in my opinion. He cannot be trusted. When the prime minister says things like "I very much appreciate the president’s position, as does everyone in my country,” it makes me very uneasy. If Israel does not act against Iran, Iran will join the nuclear club. One day, Americans might see nuclear weapons detonated in their cities and then ask why someone did not stop Iran.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

        I for one, I see Iran as a threat to all life on the planet. They fund terror everyplace they touch and with the US viewed as the great satan, it's a matter of when they can attack – not if.

        • WildJew

          Thanks for the correction. I should have written, some Americans do indeed see Iran as a threat. I am not sure you are in the majority. We'll see. If Obama is re-elected, I don't know what to conclude other than Americans are OK with a man who is bent on breaking this nation and furthering Muslim Brotherhood influence at home and abroad. This does not bode well for a great people..

  • pierce

    I, for one, agree with Netanyahu's premise. Iran is very close to completing their nuclear plant, and with a tyrant named Ahmadinejad for a leader, don't trust the Iranian madman. Of course there was a holocaust, and to deny that, one can't be playing with a full deck. Unfortunately since 1978 or 1979, Iran has been acting like it is the kid on the street who does not belong. Poh boy, yes, but do not feel sorry for them, they dug their own grave. I for one don't know why China and Russia back such a destructive nation.

    • fiddler

      So, if God-forbid a nuclear bomb explodes in this nation, who his Obama going to blame? Certainly not himself.

  • oldtimer

    Netanyahu is a brilliant, honorable man, who cares for his country and it's people. He expressed his point in a way that the idiots he was speaking to could understand. Too bad I can't say the same for Mr. O.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dana.harbaugh.94 Dana Harbaugh

    Red line on a workable Nuke is good. But what level of uranium enrichment is needed for an effective "Dirty Bomb"… What's to stop Iran from giving their E. U. to terrorists for use in Dirty Bomb attacks? I'm no nuclear expert, but the scenarios I've read of include Dirty Bombs creating "uninhabitable" cities with nothing more than conventional explosives and radioactive material… a scenario Las Vegas has been worried about since 9-11.

  • amused

    I agree with a previous poster Netanyahu gave Israel's estimate about how far they feel the Iran program has come , and how much farther it will go before Israel pre-empts the threat . When a nuclear program seeks to go beyond 20% enrichment , that is a sign they're attempting to produce weapons grade Uranium . Iran has achieved 20% enrichment and is proceeding to go beyond that .Israel will know , before IAEC , and before the US ,when Iran reaches that point ….and he DREW A PICTURE . Israel's REDLINE , the point at which Israel will attack .with or without ANYONES approval . What the Iranians are not thinking about is that Israel has nukes whether it be 50 or 100 , Iran has one shot , which if on target will devastate a major city of Israel , after that Iran will cease to exist .

    • fiddler

      I just wish that the Iranian resistance could over-throw the the little dictator.

      • Kufar Dawg

        Iranistan is an islamofascist theocracy, I share your hope, but I think it's a pipe dream.

  • Steve Chavez

    "DRAW A RED LINE IN THE SAND?” How about “GREEN LINE IN THE SAND?” (Read on.)

    WHERE ARE THE WORLD’S ANTI-NUKE/WAR PROTESTERS? Isn't it easier to stop a country from building one in the first place than it is to demand they dismantle the ones they have already built?

    Some of these same protest movements scream “NO WAR ON IRAN,” but isn’t the reason there could be “war on Iran” is because of their pursuit to build nukes? Doesn’t it then stand to REASON that if they don’t want “war on Iran” then they need to protest them acquiring one in the first place? Maybe they too want to “wipe Israel off the map?” Problem: THESE GROUPS ARE OBAMA'S BASE!

    Netanyahu spent a quarter of his speech on legitimizing Israel’s right to exist, the good they do around the world, and Arabs who come to Israel for medical attention. Three-quarters of his speech was on Iran’s nuclear program and their threat to world peace. IF IRAN USES A NUKE, then there will be a World War III and fought with nukes turning the Middle East into GREEN GLASS.

    (At Trinity Site near Socorro, NM, my birthplace, the world’s first atomic bomb melted the sand into green glass called Trinitite which I own several pieces. The site is open twice a year.)

    “GREEN LINE IN THE SAND!”

    • riverboatbill

      Send some Trinitite and a cartoon mushroom cloud to Iran's jihadists.

  • tagalog

    Mahmoud Abbas actually said to the U.N. that Palestinians were “facing relentless waves of attacks against our people, our mosques, churches and monasteries…?"

    He actually had the nerve to mention churches and monasteries? I bet that was a first. So who is that's attacking the churches and monasteries? I bet it's not the Israelis…

    • Omar

      Abbas was just projecting and playing the blame game in order to draw sympathy from the international community. Abbas needs to know that the free world doesn't play games with despotic regimes.

    • Kufar Dawg

      I wrote the same thing but I was censored. G-d knows why.

  • Marty

    The hypocrisy and moral cowardice of the un never ceases to amaze. Why is it still located in the United States and why does the American taxpayer provide nearly a fourth of its budget, much of which is used to overpay un bureaucrats who are dedicated to condemning western democracy? The democracies should leave the un and establish their own international organization. Without western financial support the current un would quickly disintegrate, thus doing the world and humanity a big favor. And we would no longer be required to have genocidal sociopaths and Holocaust deniers contaminate our soil.

  • Bert

    We must realize that the prospect of Iran nuking Israel is NOT at all unthinkable or objectionable for many nations. Their major concern is their business connections. Recall that up to the start of WWII many nations including the U.S. (IBM and General Motors) were happy to do business with Hitler.
    Israel's problem is that everyone feels free to pressure and threaten them. People fear Muslims and especially Iran. Perhaps it is time for the world to fear Israel more than they fear Iran.
    Israel relies too much on the world being moral and logical when in reality it is fear and greed that is the stronger motivating force. When it comes to national survival in an evil world Israel owes nothing to anyone.

  • Schlomotion

    Benjamin Netanyahu – Crank Prime Minister of Israel who used to live in Pennsylvania.
    Binyamin Netanyahu – Esteemed statesman, Messiah. Revealer of the Apocalypse.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

      Schlo, I was wondering when your face would pop up.

      • Zionista

        and you flippy/shmo – it doesn't matter what you call yourself – you're still a Jew obsessed nobody

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

          Why thank you, I'm just not sure how to print and frame such a profound comment for my office wall.
          Maybe I just won't.

    • Mo Schlotion

      Where in Pennsylvania did he live? Did he have a nice house? What were the municipal taxes?

      • Schlomotion

        Elkins Park, Cheltenham Township where Bill Cosby lives. 25% of people who live there have incomes over $100,000. 80% of the Real Estate tax goes to the local school system.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

          You can say that the average income is….
          Not that his income was.

          And even if his family did well, so what? That's a good thing, since we're not marxist yet.

        • fiddler

          Ah jealousy, envy. I knew that was your motive. After all, all Lefties are dirt poor. Those people in Hollywood except "evil" John Voight, Gary Sinise, Kelsy Grammar and Dwight Schultz, all except them give away ALL of their money to the poor. Everybody knows that.

    • Anonymous

      "Schlomotion": undulating pile of stinking pig vomit; loser-in-life turd, bile-in-motion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mladen.andrijasevic Mladen Andrijasevic

    Netanyahu quoted Bernard Lewis in his speech. About time!
    Why are Bernard Lewis's views on MAD ignored? http://www.madisdead.blogspot.co.il/2012/05/why-a

    Matthias Küntzel – Antisemitism, Messianism and the Cult of Sacrifice:The Iranian Holy War http://www.madisdead.blogspot.co.il/2012/09/matth

  • Ghostwriter

    At least,Prime Minister Netanyahu lives in the real world and not a fantasy one,like the one President Obama and his administration currently inhabit. They don't see the danger of the psychotic mullahs of Iran getting nukes. The same can't be said for those like Schlomotion and his pals. They want another Holocaust and will cheer the lunatics of Iran on until they get their bomb.

    • fiddler

      It is my firm belief that Obama WANTS chaos, so that he can sit on top of the heap of ashes and rebuild and ruler.

  • Jordan Ariel

    Abbas was mistakenly reading from his day planner… (attack mosques and Churches and blame the Jews)

    • HermitLion

      It's the sneaky Zionists who switched his speech with his day planner ;)

  • fanlad

    Benjamin Netanyahu made a very straight forward and easy to understand case for Israel's self defense, and why it is important not to allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon, and what it means for the rest of the world if they do. Israel, and most of their citizen's are finally starting to understand that trading land for peace does not work, and never will. May God protect Israel and the United States of America.

  • Tim K.

    President Obama has abdicated the chair of the Leader of the Free World.
    The position is now occupied by Prime Minister Netanyahu.

  • WilliamJamesWard

    The bomb is the end game, Iran has done enough to warrant being dismembered and cast_into the wastebin of bad history, the great question is just why have the Mullahs been allowed_to carry on their world wide terrorism and repression of Iran's citizens that seek freedom?_As far as Netanyahu being seen as depending on Washington, well the lights are on in the_White House but no one is at home.

    The red line should only be found on the necks of the Iranian terrorist government members
    after being cut down from the badly needed scaffold…………………….William

  • riverboatbill

    Iran is a mad dog of the mideast. It not only has Uranium,Plutonium,Cobalt and other nuclear and/or radioactive stuff to dump on people, but also has the old fashioned ,but effective, methods such as germs and chemicals. Diplomacy with rabid mad dogs is not a sane procedure.

  • clarespark

    The Wall Street Journal coverage of the Bibi address was unfriendly and inaccurate. I showed their photo and the headline here: http://clarespark.com/2012/09/30/bibi-as-warmonge…. They not only ignored the important distinction he made between modern and medieval societies, they matched him with Abbas, claiming that little was said about peace negotiations, though Bibi had specifically mentioned that a Palestinian State would have to be demilitarized. It is my view that the WSJ consciously or unconsciously identified Bibi with hostile depictions of the Old Testament Jewish God.

  • https://www.facebook.com/mike.villano.71 Mike Villano

    "Obama administration, which has claimed that intelligence would be able to detect a final sprint to the bomb so that military forces could stop it in time—"
    Only the most naive actually believe the bimbos at the CIA anymore. They are academic bimbos intent on cynically selling out the Jewish state.

  • Mr. Polly

    Ahmadinejad is a hero for standing up to "the international community" — i.e., international Jewry.

  • Ghostwriter

    Mr. Polly,Ahmadinejad may be a lot of things but hero isn't the word I'd use. "Violent loon,""Genocidial monster,"and others like it would be far more appropriate to the Hitler of the 21st Century.

  • tagalog

    Are our bunkder-buster bombs (or those of the Israelis) capable of accurate delivery to the point where a bunker-buster can be dropped, strike its target, then another can be delivered in the same place, then another and another, in order to overcome deeply-emplaced sites? A nuclear bunker-buster (which I know we have) would do the trick, but I bet the U.S. would not ever use a nuclear bomb to destroy Iran's nuclear capacity.

    Could a MOAB or a BLU-82 cause deep underground facilities to collapse? Do we have bombs that will perform such a task, like the British tallboys in World War II?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You really do hate anything that opposes your Iranian centric – muslim loyal views, don't you?

  • WildJew

    You might have written, Americans (many of us) inadvertently fund terrorism. It's not my desire to be dependent on Muslim and Muslim-Arab oil. If I had my way, we would drill for oil and gas and tap our coal deposits all over the nation. I would like to see oil rigs off the coast of my state; Florida. Bush did not do enough to wean America off Arab oil after 9/11 when he had a Republican Congress.. Obama is a disaster. He has done virtually everything possible to block energy independence.

  • Drakken

    Well join the other side then shortbus. Jesus H Christ your stupidity knows no bounds.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You pretend that Christian values didn't make this country and shape it?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

    Your hate blinds you.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, watch the video and you won't sound so ignorant.

    Can you dispute anything in it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

    The founding fathers had a shared heritage, a Christian heritage from England with the protestant understanding of God, so even the Deists knew of the God they acknowledged even if they didn't sit down in any popular churches.

    You know the 'Creator' mentioned in the declaration?

    You simply defend your muslim values. And your muslim friendly hate blinds you.

  • WTE

    Can't say I disagree with you there <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • WTE

    I don't click on your links. Creator does not mean the christian god either only arrogant POS's think like that. You simply defend your anti-American values <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Oh wee, you're just a small little man determined to be an ignorant bigot.

    And in the society the founders lived in, there was only one accepted Creator. Even if your muslim friendly values refuse to admit it.

    And you know my link proves you a fool. Did Trista Parsi forbid you to learn anything while you're spewing hate and propaganda on this forum?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    You aren't showing that he did say that, you're showing you claim he said that. And even if you finally told the truth he doesn't reflect the values of the founding fathers.

    That's what my link proves. In spite of your muslim friendly talking points.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    So someone that didn't know what he was talking about 70 years later when the founding fathers were gone and unable to set the record straight, that matters why?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

    The facts are there, if you were just intelligent enough to look for them.

  • fiddler

    Have you ever considered with the first Chief Justice of the US John Jay had to say? In effect: that a Christian nation should desire Christians to be their leaders.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, you need to see real facts, not propaganda.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, that site doesn't list facts or sources.

    It only shows that someone hostile to what the founding fathers actually built and said has a web site. It could even be funded by Trista Parsi just like you.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Wee, you really can't control your imagination can you?
    And the hate just blinds you to everything.

  • WTE

    What I posted was real facts <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=”BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>