The Danger in Dealing With Islamists

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Following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the United States made the first strategic mistake by contributing to the creation of the most dangerous Islamic fundamentalist revival to take place in the twentieth century, or “The Islamic Awakening,” as termed by prominent Islamist scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi. The American perception of Islamic fundamentalism was shallow and lacking an in-depth look at history, while also being short-sighted with a focus on short-term objectives.

Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security advisor to President Jimmy Carter who emigrated from Eastern Europe, was preoccupied with the Communist threat, unaware that a revival of Islamic fundamentalism would also end up reviving historical horrors that are best forgotten. The CIA, in cooperation with Pakistani intelligence, conducted the biggest operation in its history, with a cost estimated at billions of dollars, to counter the Soviet threat through a revival of Islamic jihad. Pakistani president at the time, Zia ul-Haq, had stipulated that the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) should be in charge of the distribution of money and weapons to fighters in the Afghani factions, while forbidding the CIA to enter Afghanistan via Pakistan. These restrictions basically meant that the Pakistani Intelligence was pulling all the strings. The ISI chose its allies from among fundamentalist Afghans such as Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, as well as Afghan students at Wahhabi[1] schools, who were later called the “Taliban” due to their affiliation with Wahhabi schools in Pakistan. Through the ISI the so-called “Afghan Arabs” first emerged, and in later years they became the nucleus of al-Qaeda.

On March 15, 2005 the U.S. State Department website published a report denying any connection between the CIA and the Afghan Arabs or al-Qaeda, and placing the blame squarely on Pakistani intelligence. The report stated that the U.S. did not “create bin Laden or al-Qaeda, but rather helped the Afghans in their struggle to free their country― as did other countries including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt and the United Kingdom. The United States did not, however, support the ‘Afghan Arabs,’ i.e. the Arabs and other Muslims who came to fight in Afghanistan for ulterior motives. The ISI made the decisions as to which Afghan groups it wished to arm and train, and it tended to favor the pro-Pakistan radical Islamic factions. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which led to the accusation that they have been created by the CIA.”

Yet, this statement is not entirely accurate. In fact, the U.S. has played an indirect part in the creation of Taliban and al-Qaeda. Back then, a US-Saudi deal specified that in return for every dollar provided by Saudi Arabia in cash, the U.S. offered a dollar in the form of weapons, and both funds and weapons were submitted to the ISI. In his book “The Main Enemy: The Inside story of the CIA’s Final showdown with the KGB,” Milt Bearden, CIA station chief in Pakistan between 1986 and 1989 who was in charge of covert operations in Afghanistan, referred to this deal: “In 1980, Zbigniew Brzezinski – National Security adviser to President Jimmy Carter – secured an agreement with the Saudi King, under which Saudi Arabia pledged to match the financial contribution provided by the United States to support Afghani efforts. Reagan-era CIA Director Bill Casey kept this agreement in effect for several years” (“The Main Enemy,” p. 219).

The same account was given by Major General Mohammad Yusuf, who was in charge of the ISI Afghan office where he managed the Pakistani classified aid program for the Afghan mujahideen. In his book “The Bear Trap: Afghanistan, the untold story” Major Yusuf mentions the US-Saudi financial pact: “For every dollar provided by the United States, another dollar was added by the Saudi government. The joint funds, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars, were transferred by the CIA to special accounts in Pakistan under the ISI supervision” (“Bear Trap,” p. 81).

No, the United States did not finance al-Qaida or the Afghan Arabs directly, but it created the phenomenon responsible for the emergence of bin Laden and al- Qaeda. CIA and Pentagon experts took a gamble on the circumstantial success of a lethal weapon: armed jihadist Islam. What’s more, they bestowed the title of “freedom fighters” on the Mujahideen. Swiss journalist Richard Labévière called this dangerous game the “Dollars for Terror” in a 1998 book published in French under the same title. Labévière Stated that the U.S. was responsible for creating bin Laden with the approval of Saudi and Pakistani intelligence, not to mention the part it played in the emergence of fundamentalist Presidents such as Zia ul-Haq in Pakistan, Sadat in Egypt, and Jaafar Nimeiri in Sudan, who were friends of the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, and who contributed to the phenomenon of Afghani jihad and to the revival of Islamic fundamentalism.

Of course, al-Qaeda did not content itself with funds and weapons obtained from Pakistani Intelligence but had its own resources, receiving funds from wealthy Arabs and particularly from Saudi Intelligence, under the supervision of Prince Turki al-Faisal. As a result, the organization had substantial funds at its command. Ayman al-Zawahiri confirmed this fact in his book “Knights under the Banner of the Prophet” issued in December 2001, where he mentioned that al-Qaeda had funded Afghan jihad with two hundred million dollars in the form of weapons only in the span of ten years. It is also a well-known fact that al-Qaeda had funded the Taliban takeover of Kabul in December 1996, and killed off Taliban strong opponent Ahmed Shah Massoud.

As expected, magic turned against the magician, and the attempt to blow up the World Trade Center in 1994 should have been a warning to the U.S. of the seriousness of the phenomenon which was partly of its own making. But the American response was lax, even as more terrorist operations followed, with the most serious being the bombing of the American embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam in August 1998, which left in its wake hundreds of mostly poor Africans dead and wounded. Yet, the Clinton administration dealt with the matter rather leniently, firing several missiles at al-Qaeda camps with little impact that failed to stop the escalating savagery of the militant organization. A few years later, the events of September 11, 2001 took place shaking the United States and the whole world, and revealing the extent of the danger posed by Islamic jihadist organizations.

With the onset of war in Afghanistan and then Iraq, American Think Tanks started to look for non-military alternatives to deal with the Islamic phenomenon and with the countries that export Islamic terrorism. Thus, the notion of an agenda of democracy was put forward in the era of Bush Jr. A connection between tyranny and the rise of religious extremism was suggested, along with the argument that internal repression of the Islamist phenomenon had resulted in the phenomenon being exported to the West. With an agenda of democracy, came an inevitable question: what if democracy actually allowed Islamists to gain power? The answer was provided by Condoleezza Rice, who expressed the U.S. conviction of the importance of dialogue with Islamists in the Arab region, and confirmed that the US did not fear the prospect of an Islamist arrival to power. Richard Haass, director of policy planning at the State Department, confirmed that the U.S. did not fear the arrival of Islamists to power as a substitute to the repressive Arab regimes which have muzzled their people, thus triggering the outbreak of terrorist acts, provided that Islamists gain power through democratic means and adopt democracy as a means of government.

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  • Diann

    extremely valuable article – it's important to understand the history behind these things.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

      Still full of hate?

      Why are you side stepping the teachings of islam that are killing people so that you can attack Christians that are a failure and not following the teachings of Christ?

      Why not just out yourself and admit you're muslim?

  • Bamaguje

    The sad part of it all is that America doesn't learn from past mistakes.
    She supported Al-Qaeda linked Islamists to depose Gaddafi in Libya, and the same America is now colluding with Al-Qaeda to depose Syria's Bashar Assad.

    America obviously learnt nothing from the Mullahs in Iran and more recently from Iraq, if she (U.S.) naively expects elected Islamists to respect the rights of women and religious minorities.

    Qatar isn't a democracy, so it speaks to a hidden agenda for her to hypocritically support 'freedom & democracy' in other Arab countries.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

      Clearly Obama is learning from Iran, and doing it's bidding.
      They are the ones backing Syria.

      And Qatar is fighting the non citizen Iranian workers that are working to overthrow the sunni government.

  • TopAssistant

    I would love to see more articles on our history with Shariah/Islamic law starting with the letter John Adams and Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1786.

    Here is just a part of the March 28, 1786 letter to John Jay, the United States Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Continental Congress, signed by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson concerning their conversation with the Tripoli ambassador. (Thomas Jefferson. "The Papers of Thomas Jefferson". Princeton Univ. Press. pp. 9:358.)

    As you read the letter keep asking yourself if you see any similarities between 1786 and today’s challenges. Here is a part of the 1786 letter from Adams and Jefferson:

    The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every musselman [muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

    I suggest you read the entire letter, ask yourself some questions about what happened then and what is happening now. Are we experiencing the development of a worldwide Caliphate mentioned by the Tripoli ambassador? Is the United States paying “jizya” tax? We are doing this by paying Middle Eastern nations to adopt Sharia/Islamic law/finance and using our military to fight and die doing it. Why hasn’t the House and Senate Armed Service Committees ever held hearings on why Stephen Coughlin was silenced after he presented his research on Shariah/Islamic law and if it had been hijacked by radicals? He found it had not and Islamists are doing exactly what is taught in the Koran and other Islamic material. Read his work on this by searching online Stephen Coughlin thesis “TO OUR GREAT DETRIMENT”: IGNORING WHAT EXTREMISTS SAY ABOUT JIHAD (with appendices). Why hasn’t former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, Gen. Peter Pace even been called to testify about his views on why the military is being prevented to identify our enemy, study them and develop a plan to defeat them? Read page #1 of Coughlin’s thesis.

    What does the Muslim Brotherhood have in common with the Tripoli Ambassador? Why hasn’t our government placed the Muslim Brotherhood on the terrorist list?

    The actual letter has been photocopied and it is here: http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/005/040

    The typed version is here: http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~argy

    Are the Muslim Brotherhood and their affiliates such as CAIR, ISNA and other unindicted co-conspirators of the Holy Land Foundation terrorist funding trials a continuation of what we experienced before this nation was formed?

    Why did the Bush and Obama Department of Justice refuse to prosecute the unindicted co-conspirators? You need to go to Citizens for National Security (CFNS) website and link to the Task Force Update, Muslim Brotherhood Full CFNS Report titled: Homegrown Jihad in the USA – Muslim Brotherhood’s Deliberate,
    Premeditated Plan Now Reaching Maturity© and view the PowerPoint that outlines exactly how the Muslim Brotherhood has spread throughout America since 1962 and our government is mum on it. No hearings have been held on the Muslim Brotherhood..

    • Sage on the Stage

      Very good comment. The difference is that in 1786, we knew who the enemy was, and when TJ declared war in 1801, he didn't declare war "on terror." He declared war on the Barbary states, and their jihadi pirates, and James Madison did likewise in Spring 1815; then sent Stephen Decatur to suppress the Barbary pirates. The U.S. paid no further protection money, until the present day.

  • Mel

    American foreign policy in this region is dictated to far too great an extent by the Saudi funded Muslim Brotherhood which operates behind institutional Islamic fronts in North America.. Understand that fact, and the rest — while certainly treasonous — makes logical sense

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    Did they also invade and destroy the Byzantine Empire and force Apartheid on the copts in Egypt?

  • Drakken

    The only logical conclusion to the islam problem is a military solution which becomes more apparent everyday. You cannot make peace with islam, it must be soundly and utterly destroyed.

    • ahmadnb

      Good luck with that. Remember what happened the last time a nation tried to wipe out a religion (Judaism)? It ended up drowning in its own blood. And Judaism has had far fewer followers than Islam.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

        I am shocked that you (a muslim who doesn't advocate sharia or take the koran literally) would think you understand religions very well.

        • patriothere

          And what? You're some religious scholar? Don't make me laugh.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            I don't have to be a scholar, islamists are very open about what they believe.

            And you just do as you're told.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

        • ahmadnb

          Of course I do…far better than you do. Now get lost, you mental midget…or do you have a lot of free time on your hands? If so, your monkey might have been a bad, bad monkey and might need a little spanking…

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You silly muslims always call anyone smarter or more realistic a monkey.
            Why do you think you're more stupid than monkeys?

            Is it the muslim breeding program?
            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/8

            Now that we have the insults out of the way. Seriously, you are not facing reality in your world view if you don't take the koran literally as a muslim. You would be stoned in Mecca for saying that.

            And if you think that you don't need to live sharia, you know even in Dearborn they stone people for that. http://www.radicalislam.org/blog/dearborn/dearbor

            Now, why do you think you should be taken seriously again?

            Silly monkey indeed, reality is not kind to you.

          • ahmadnb

            Marrying nieces??? You know the Qur'an forbids that…literally. Oh, did you miss that part? Such people who do these things are in total violation of Qur'anic commandments. Most of my family that I know about has nothing to do with inbreeding…I know this for a fact. My parents were not only unrelated to each other, but came from 2 different parts of their country. Now what about YOUR family? Are you from some backwater county where family trees have no branches?? That would explain your behavior.What makes you say that I think I'm more stupid than monkeys? Your last encounter with bath salts? Your last acid trip? And no, I do not wish to see your junk. And no, you can't have me over for dinner.What happened in Dearborn was a disgrace…I would have arrested that “Muslim mob” and put them on a boat out of America. However, I would have handled that “Christian” group very differently…they would have probably ended up at the nearest bar for more than just a few shots of liquor after I deal with them.I don't expect you to dig yourself out of that mental home that you live in. You need not take me seriously. But many others will, and do. On the other hand, I see no one who takes YOU seriously. You're an embarrassment to your religion…most Christians just wish you'd go away. I'll let them handle you.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Does it also forbid marrying goats? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4748292.stm

            You are just not able to defend the current form of islam.

          • ahmadnb

            No, it doesn't. What about the Bible? And it looks like you hoped that I would ignore something from your original article. That one was not just about inbreeding in the Pakistani community, but also among Christians living in the Isle of Man and in Northern Ireland…your brothers and sisters in the faith! In an advanced Christian country, on top of that.Unfortunately, for you, I can more than just read. Sure sucks to be you.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Do they marry their goats?
            Do they marry because if they don't the family can decide it's time for an 'honor killing'?

          • ahmadnb

            Hmmm…let me get this straight. You're saying that it's better for a Christian to marry a blood relative than to screw around with an animal. On the other hand, it's NOT OK for a Muslim to do either. Sure makes sense…to a jackass.Let me take something back…in a number of states here in the USA, it is legal to screw an animal, but not to marry one. The state of Washington, for instance, actually had farms to cater to people who REALLY LOVED animals. Things went awry in one such farm when someone got killed while trying to screw a horse there. Wonder what he had to explain to God in the Afterlife?? Was he a Christian? Sure wasn't a Muslim…

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Let me see, you aren't quoting me so you can't show what I said.

            And then to you go on to defend bestiality.

            You might as well embrace sharia and claim the koran is to be take literally.

          • ahmadnb

            I never defended bestiality…and you call ME a liar? Look in a mirror, unless you're too ugly to look at one…that would be a shameful waste of glass. Boy, common sense and truth are as familiar to you as a cool day on Venus's surface.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You said it was better to marry a goat than to have sex with a relative.

            You are the strangest bird.

          • ahmadnb

            No I didn't…you lying SOB.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Really? How about going up to your comment that says this?

            "Hmmm…let me get this straight. You're saying that it's better for a Christian to marry a blood relative than to screw around with an animal. On the other hand, it's NOT OK for a Muslim to do either. Sure makes sense…to a jackass…"

            Let me take something back…in a number of states here in the USA, it is legal to screw an animal, but not to marry one. The state of Washington, for instance, actually had farms to cater to people who REALLY LOVED animals.

          • ahmadnb

            Just goes to prove that you've got an IQ of a pencil eraser.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            And it goes to show you don't know how to use that.

          • ahmadnb

            Another retarded lie from you…I've been using them since 1977.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Yes, the year iran captured our US embassy.

            And the lies were just as phony then.

          • ahmadnb

            Oh, I must have been wrong all this time…I thought that the US Embassy in Tehran was stormed in 1979. You, Roger Russell, are soo smart and informed…a true genius! 1977!! Thanks for the correction.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You're not wrong, dishonest at best.

            And the takeover was not an impulsive action, how long did they take in the planning of it?

          • ahmadnb

            Let me bring back your quotes here:”Yes, the year iran captured our US embassy. And the lies were just as phony then. “There was no mention made by you with regard to planning this. The year that the embassy was captured, according to you, was 1977. I see you're already attempting to weasel your way out of it…of course, I expected nothing less from a faithless coward such as yourself. Please don't call yourself a Christian to me…nobody seems to like you here. I've had people come to my defense here, but I haven't seen anyone come to your defense. And I would have expected most people on this forum to defend you, but even they're turned off by you. That's obviously because even though some of them may not like Islam and Muslims, they're more troubled by absolute idiots and asylum escapees such as yourself pretending to know everything about Islam and history. But you don't seem to know anything about Christianity either…you're a CINO, a “Christian In Name Only”.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            So, the muslim that pretends sharia is a choice, a member of the religion that practices lying as a tactic is lecturing me about a typo involving 2 years?

            And you are a muslim to the bone.

            Yes, I said 1977, but those two years was only because they were consolidating power, not because they didn't wish to do so sooner. They just had to kill off all the sane people in Iran first.

          • ahmadnb

            You have the mentality of a liberal, you know. If I'm a black person, I MUST follow Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. If I'm a Muslim, I MUST follow Sharia. People in either group who refuse to do what is required of them as outlined here are “Uncle Toms” and “traitors”, what have you. Thus people like J. C. Watts and Ward Connerly are “fake blacks”. And yours truly is a “fake Muslim”.In 1977 the Shah of Iran was still firmly in power. Things were falling apart, but to even contemplate taking over the US Embassy at the time would have been a long stretch, and absurd. No one even thought the the US would have acted as timidly as it did in 1979. But that's besides the point…you're attempting to spin your words around. People on this forum will not be fooled, no matter how much you try. You SPECIFICALLY noted that 1977 was the year that the US Embassy in Tehran was taken over.So who's lying now? And moreover, you're lying repeatedly to cover up your previous lies and speculations. And yet you claim that I'm the one who's lying, as if lying was such a terrible thing to do. If it is, then why would YOU lie, too? Do you have some sort of pass from God that lets you get away with things that could get other people punished?Damn hypocrite…and please don't flood me with your phony show of patriotism. You would sell your country out for a cheap whore.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            So you are still going after a typo by two years, not because the facts were wrong but because I made an error on the year?

            Now, 30 years later what difference does it make?

            You're just a two bit hack that thinks muslims don't' have to submit to sharia.

            That's all anyone needs to know, You think that the koran doesn't need to be taken literally, even 300 years later that would be a stoning offense in most muslim places.

          • ahmadnb

            And you're a mentally retarded idiot who thinks he's so damned smart and religious, like he's got a place in Paradise waiting for him. Yeah, you and those 19 hijackers of 9/11.That was no typo. When I first called you on it, you tried to spin your way out of it. And after several posts you now call it a typo? I've seen Obama do a better job spinning his lines.You tell me to take the Qur'an literally, yet you reject “inconvenient” parts of the Bible. FYI,since you're not even a Muslim to begin with, your opinions regarding Islam means JACK SQUAT. I don't need a mentally retarded, arrogant, SOB, future mass murdering dolt teaching me anything…it would be like mental patient with the mental capacity of a 2-year old trying to explain to Einstein that the special theory of relativity was all wrong.BTW, how's it working with all the other posters piling up on ya?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Does that mean I'd be safe as a non believer in say Pakistan since you seem to think I don't know squat?

          • ahmadnb

            FYI, most Muslim countries (and so-called “Muslims” fr that matter) do not practice Islam as it was originally intended to be practiced. However, If you're just minding your own damned business in a Muslim country, chances are that you won't be harassed.This obviously shows that you really haven't been outside much…and yet somehow you think you're soooo smart. Sheesh…

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            FYI a lot of muslims think that, and a lot seem to think car bombs will fix that.

            You're so smart…. sheesh……

          • ahmadnb

            If you're right, we would have seen a LOT MORE car bombs going off all over. But that's not the case. You're nothing more than what I call a “typical armchair intellectual” who gets his “facts” from browsing the Internet. When was the last time you went outside the USA? How many countries have you visited or lived in?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            I'm sure these people are so relieved you can keep lying about things. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/07/2012

          • ahmadnb

            I stand by my comments. You can't learn the truth by sitting in your Momma's basement all day and all night trolling against those you disagree with and pulling newsclips from the Internet. You're not qualified to be able to tell the difference between truths and lies when your entire life itself is one big lie. Roger Russell, failed author, failed husband…

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Oh my, are you another one of those muslim liars that thinks you can browbeat the unbelievers in the best of the surah 9 tradition?

            So, you lie about islam, sharia, what's expected/demanded by muslims aroundthe world and think you can put me in my place withoutadmitting that sharia is a barbaric 8th centuryforced style of life?

          • ahmadnb

            You're just going all over the place…I never lied about my beliefs. You just can't bring yourself to tell the truth about yours, which is why you never bring them up.You're the one trying to put me in my place. And I'm not going to stop. You can go on for as long as you want but you'll just keep making a bigger and bigger fool of yourself for all to see.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You may believeshariaisoptional.Buteveryothermuslimknowsbetter.So,areyoulyingaboutyorubeliefsorthedemandsofislam?Eitherwayyou'rejustwrong.

          • ahmadnb

            I am right and you are stupid.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Go explain on the haj about not needing to live sharia?

          • ahmadnb

            I don't need to. The Hajj is a duty incumbent of able-bodied Muslims who can afford it. People with many differing ideas perform this every year.

      • Ted G

        The nazi nation at that time tried to wipe out an ethnicity not the religion. There is a difference. That Nazi nation also tried to wipe out any other ethnicity they felt were inferior, ie the gypsies etc.

        Does this sound familiar "an inferior ethnicity"? Seems like islam treats anyone "other than a muslim" as inferior too! Well how about that.

        You don't have to wipe out the muslims that would be genocide based religion. Us civilized people don't believe in that, but that is what islam teaches! You only really have to tell the truth and educate people about islam, then it will just slowly go away.
        But you have most officials in power obfuscating and covering for islam under some crazy idea that it is just one of the three great Abrahamic religions.

        • ahmadnb

          If what you have said here is true regarding Islam, then please explain how Islam is still around after 1,400 years. We have survived all the lies told about and against us, attempts to annihilate us, and efforts to convert us to other religions. We have also survived against the extremists amongst us. According to your worldview, we should have died out more than 1,000 years agoSpeaking of which, Christendom today is a totally different creature from what it was 1,000 years ago. Back at that time Muslims were far more civilized than what we got nowadays and European Christians (as opposed to Arab Christians who were far more civilized) were known as the uneducated, filthy, ignorant, intolerant, genocidal barbarians who followed their priests and kings like sheep.The pendulum seems to swing back and forth through time. Fear, ignorance, apathy, laziness, and a lack of faith in God is what eventually leads to the downfall of any civilization. That includes Islamic and Western civilization.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            It survives because it is a barbaric form of forced lifestyle that kills all those trying to escape it.
            And islam hasn't changed as Christianity has. It's still stuck in the 8th century mindset.

            You just can't defend islam in it's current form because it's evil. At least that's what this rape victim would say, if they hadn't murdered her. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

          • ahmadnb

            That's not good enough. Medieval Christianity was far more barbaric than medieval Islam. And if it is really a forced lifestyle as you claim it to be, how is it that I refuse to leave it, even though I have nothing to fear from my fellow Muslims? Stupid liar…just like Obama.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Today is what is good enough.
            And islam is still stuck in the 8th century mindset. I've given you all sorts of links to back that up.

            And you? You just keep lying.

          • ahmadnb

            Your stupid links mean jack squat.Islam is far bigger than a lot of people realize…including yourself. I don't believe God made your brain too stupid to comprehend it…I believe you chose to make yourself stupid and hateful so that you don't have to face any questioning of your own “faith” in God.You claim that I keep lying. As I have said before, I have nothing to gain from lying on some Internet forum. People in general are a lot smarter than you give them credit for and can believe what they want to.Which goes to show how REALLY dumb you are. Roger Russell, failed author and failed husband, Internet troll…go figure.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            We are starting to realize, that's why you can lie all day long and no one is fooled by it.

          • ahmadnb

            By “we” you must mean you, you and you again. 'Cos I don't see anyone come to your aid…life must be lonely at the bottom.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            I don't bother with parallel profiles like some muslim friendly trolls.

            And for a muslim who pretends sharia is optional, that the koran doesn't need to be taken literally, you sure are brave. Why not say that at your local mosque and see how it goes over?

          • ahmadnb

            Delusional mental case…please tell me why anyone should take YOU seriously? Roger Russell, failed author, failed husband…in other words, a walking failure with delusions of grandeur.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Because all those labels were given to me by people as uniformed and ignorant as you. Why do you think any of them are actually true?

          • ahmadnb

            I don't see why they would lie about an obviously despicable individual like you who has nothing better to do with his precious time than to stalk people you disagree with, including other Christians. You obviously have issues, and if such allegations are true about you, they seem to fill in missing pieces of the Roger Russell puzzle.You're not going to win over any converts. Your patronizing comments and dishonest allegations will win you more enemies than friends…and any friends that you win over will be just as mentally crazed as you are.As for me, I'm not here to win over anyone…I'm just happy to be able to throw my 2 cents in every now and then. You're nothing more than a waste of my precious time.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Why does an obviously despicable person such as yourself have nothing better to do that come here and make up lies about islam not being so bad?

            You clearly have issues and missing pieces, did someone you know get too close with a suicide belt?

            And you're here happy to spew propaganda. It isn't working, but you don't care as long as you pretend you know things. Too bad you don't find out and then just tell the truth about it.

          • ahmadnb

            Me, despicable? I only know 2 people who think I am despicable. Both are total losers and failures in life. One of them just happens to be you.I have no intention of making you believe anything. I just want the whole world to see what YOU are…Roger Russell, a fine example of what Christianity is capable of producing…Islam just doesn't hold a monopoly on the Create a Crazy Person department. Every post that you make helps my cause here. So keep posting…the more you do, the more you vindicate me. Go on, Roger…keep it up!

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            And I think it too, and I'm not a failure.

            You have been trolling here with such obvious lies it's amazing you pretend to have any credibility. You come crawling out at night and ooze around pretending islam isn't the religion that is the motivation for violence all around the world.

            That's the crazy person department. Do you pretend you can chose not to live sharia?

          • ahmadnb

            Me Roger Russell, me no failure, me know US Embassy in Tehran was stormed in 1977, NOT 1979! Rest of you all stupid!Oh, yeah…I come crawling out here at night. May I just have one little bite? It won't hurt…I promise. And please don't waste your time with your silly little crucifix…it only works for those who have faith.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Silly muslim propagandist.

            Too scared to tell the truth, always hiding and staying in the shadows like a typical muslim coward. What propaganda are you going to make up this time?

          • ahmadnb

            Excuse me, who was lying? You're the one who claimed that the US Embassy in Tehran was stormed in 1977. Will you admit that you were either lying or wrong?? I still have your quotes in my Sent folder. Will you deny that you ever made this claim? Now answer for all those on this forum truthfully if you are really a Christian…I got you now. Let's see how you weasel your way out of this one.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Still the muslim propagandist.
            Can you show that in 1977 the iranian clerics kept any international law? It's true they were busy within Iran slaughtering off all the sane parliamentarians. The Army staff and anyone else who like you thought sharia was a choice. They would have stormed that embassy 1000 years sooner if possible, they simply like mohammed had to wait until they had the numbers and the strength.

          • ahmadnb

            The Iranian clerics were simply demonstrating in the streets of Tehran and elsewhere in 1977. They were but one of many groups that was demonstrating…other groups included leftists, and even the business class. They had no power then…the Shah was still in charge until 2 years later when he fled the country.You're trying to cover up your lies with more lies and outright speculation. An argument like this in a court of law…ANY court of law…would have you laughed off the courthouse and into a straightjacket. And most people on this forum would agree with me on this.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You really are determined to lie and cover for the barbarity of your 8th century throwback religion, don't you?
            http://mostaqueali.blogspot.com/2011/02/channelin

          • ahmadnb

            Here you go again…making false statements about me when you know that the truth is something else. Are you really following the teachings of Jesus? If so, your religion must really suck. And if you're not, then you're one of those “Christians in Name Only” who wears his/her religion on his/her sleeve and beats everyone over the head with something that he/she refuses to practice.As I've said countless times before, I DON'T like mullahs nor their ideology. I don't like their hypocrisy and I am in complete disagreement with their goals and their methods. I don't need retarded non-Muslim self-styled “scholars” telling me what Islam is about. Unlike my religion, mine teaches me that I must be honest about my faith. Yours obviously doesn't.No go out and burn a copy of the Old Testament because it contains “offensive” passages that are detrimental to your crazy worldview, while goose-stepping around yelling “Ein volk, ein reich und ein fuhrer!”. Go on, why don't you? Mr. “The US Embassy in Tehran was seized in 1977″. Hee-hee…Remember…King Solomon lived more than 1,000 years before Muhammad did and foresaw him as a great man to come, and even mentioned him by name in Song of Solomon 5:16. Sure sucks to be you…

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Cranky? mr "I'm muslim but choose what parts I submit too".

            You are a fraud and it's not your place to tell me what Christians have to do. It's not your religion.

          • ahmadnb

            Excuse me, but certifiably insane individuals such as yourself cannot be trusted with passing good judgment or with voicing credible opinions. To call you a liar and a fraud would be compliments that you're not worthy of…they would indicate that you have some level of human intelligence. You appear to have none whatsoever.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            So you're starting to show that muslim temper after all. It was just a matter of time.

            Now, are you choosing to live sharia this week, or not? After all, it's not like anyone can tell you how to submit to the literal book of the koran, can they?

            Hahahahaha…..

            You really think you're fooling anyone here?

          • ahmadnb

            The only person who's fooling anyone is you. And you're fooling only yourself. You can't even follow the teachings of your own religion and you think you're some sort of “expert” in mine. If I can believe that pigs can fly, I can believe you to be a sane, honest individual.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            My religion, for those who don't follow it sneak down to the bar and have a cold beer.

            Let's compare shall we? Muslim activists that 'follow' islam blow people up and throw acid on girls that they don't want in school.

            Now which is worse?

            You don't bother pretending to be sane, just a mouth piece.

          • ahmadnb

            Those “Muslim” activists are not my brothers in the faith. Perhaps you can convince the KKK preacher in Harrison, Arkansas that the KKK is not a true Christian organization? He's convinced that the KKK is not a racist organization. So who's wrong? You or him? If he's wrong, shouldn't you drop by his place and preach to him? And if you're wrong, shouldn't you join the KKK?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Tell that to them, and see how long you live.

            My guess is you would die more horribly than Daniel Pearl.

          • ahmadnb

            And how would you deal with your Christian brothers in the Klan?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Unless they follow the teachings of Christ they aren't really successful examples of Christianity.

            And where did Christ teach me to deal with KKK members?

          • ahmadnb

            They are your brothers in the faith and claim to be true Christians. I see…you'd rather not preach to them about the errors of their ways. No…you'd rather preach to me instead. In either case, you're heading nowhere.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Unlike islam, they gettoprayandfigureitoutforthemselves.Wedon'tbloweachotherup.

          • ahmadnb

            You don't blow each other up. You just hang each other from trees, beat each other with chains and castrate each other…that's all. And then there's all the “whites only” signs……and that's all OK with you, apparently. Go riding much at night? Put all the colored folks in their proper place, especially when they get all uppity?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            I notice you just made stuff up. Can I do that too?

          • ahmadnb

            You don't need my permission to make stuff up…you do it all the time.Oh, sure…defending the Klan again. Oh, no…they NEVER lynched anyone…that was just made up by a bunch of people who hate white people. They were only defending the rights of good white people who wanted to keep their race pure in accordance with the Good Book, the Bible. I get it now…David Duke couldn't have said it better.Now we all know where Roger Russell is coming from.

          • Ted G

            ahmadnb
            That's an easy question to answer. With the death penalty hanging over your head, self preservation dictates that you follow the easy path. That means don't make waves. When you cannot even ask serious questions doubting the religion without being declared apostate, well I could go on.

            But you know all these things. So why would you attempt to deceive us with silly questions like why is it still around after all this time.

            In all muslim dominated countries the education level is around 50 % to start with, now add to that an indoctrination of islamic law that stipulates non-muslims as less than human as well as all that BS about never questioning and death if you do. My god man are you so deceitful that you won't acknowledge these things.

  • Drakken

    As a muslim you must be aware that us infidels are becoming rather sick and tired of you jihadist?

  • Ghostwriter

    The Holocaust is a proven historical fact,judeologue. You are a disgusting creep and I hope you're banned from this site.

  • DefenderofJerusalem

    You sleep with David Irving. You will drown in your own excrement.

  • Nagwa

    Islam is actually a peaceful religion, but islamists misinterpret it on purpose to fit their own political needs. they manipulating ignorant poor people with the name of islam and promise them eternal heaven if they support them to get political power. but the truth is :ISLAM IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT OF ALL THIS BLOOD SHED AND KILLING THESE CRIMINALS DO.

    • Ted G

      Actually Nagwa it is exactly like the islamic whackos say it is! I have read the trilogy.
      Most muslims may in fact be peaceful, but islam most assuredly is not!

      An unbiased reading of the islams unholy scriptures would bring most people to the same conclusion as I…it is horrible. The problem is most people have not read them. And they tend to rely on others to inform them. In most cases those others lie about islam claiming it means peace and all that other horse crap.

      • Eyes_Open

        "An unbiased reading of the islams unholy scriptures"

        That shows quite a bias.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

          Not really, not when it says things like this.

          9:1 Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.

          When it teaches people to lie to any person that doesn't follow islam it kind of fits the definition of unholy.
          So, you defend monotheism as long as it's not Christianity now?

        • Ted G

          Well I only started calling them unholy after I read them.

          I was unbiased going in, when I came out the other end I formed an educated opinion.
          That is not bias. But thx for your comment.

          So what is your opinion of the trilogy?

          • Eyes_Open

            I haven't read them entirely yet, I have only had time to start reading the Quran. So far I have found it very similar in wording and hyperbole, as well as sentiment and meaning, to the Old Testament of the Christian Bible.

            What books are you in reference to as the "trilogy"? I have found that, in addition to the Quran, there is the Tawrat, Zabur, and the Injil, which would make four. All the books other than the Quran came earlier, and would seem to be the same (though probably different language) as the Christian bible, as they supposedly came from Moses, David, and Jesus. But I haven't read any of them yet so I make an informed comparison yet.

          • Ted G

            The islamic trilogy is made up of the koran, the sunna and the hadith.

            The koran is the muslim bible easy enough there.
            The hadith is the collection of things said and done by mo and his friends
            The sunna is islamic law based on the hadith and the koran

            This makes up most of what is studied by islams so called scholars and it is taken literally and practiced literally. Any deviation from the orthodoxy is considered blasphemy punishable by death.

            No muslim can deny the established sharia as defined by these scholars of islam and still call themselves muslim. Which is why you would be hard pressed to get any muslim to oppose any of it. Notice how any true muslim follower or spokesmen will squirm and obfuscate when cornered with pointed questions regarding any of these established islamic laws.

            So when any country says its Constitution will be based on islam then you must understand that that includes all the ugly bits.

          • Eyes_Open

            Thanks for the information. I will be educating myself more fully with the writings. The Muslims I work with (international company so I work with people born all over the world) DON'T like sharia and claim that it is, for the most part, in opposition to their holy scriptures. This is why I want to know for myself what the text say as oppose to what sharia enforces. Of course, they also site that as the main reason they left the middle east and became American citizens, to get away from countries that were becoming more and more ruled by sharia law. About the only two things I have noticed about my coworkers that is different from most other Americans is that they won't eat pork (Jewish have similar food issues) and the women are much more modestly dressed in most public areas, but not anywhere near as bad as the pictures I see of the women in the middle east.