Anti-Israel Christians Stir Further Controversy

Mark Tooley is President of the Institute on Religion and Democracy (www.theird.org) and author of Methodism and Politics in the Twentieth Century. Follow him on Twitter: @markdtooley.


The October 4 ecumenical letter to the U.S. Congress from 15 mostly old-line Protestant bureaucrats warning against U.S. military aid for Israel absent “immediate investigation” of Israeli human rights abuses continues to stir controversy. The letter from United Methodist, Presbyterian Church (USA), Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and other clerics of course was uninterested in any potential human rights abuses by the Palestinian recipients of U.S. aid. Seven major U.S. Jewish groups cancelled an October scheduled interfaith dialogue with these denominations in protest.  The Jimmy Carter Center has since endorsed the ecumenical anti-Israel appeal, naturally.  And anti-Israel Episcopalians are imploring their denomination’s Presiding Bishop, who notably declined to sign the appeal, to reconsider.

Episcopalians for Mideast Peace has organized an online petition whose “target” is Presiding Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori, who also publicly opposed anti-Israel divestment earlier this year before her General Convention was scheduled to debate it.  Divestment was overwhelmingly rejected in July, and doubtless anti-Israel Episcopalians were further peeved when her name or any other senior Episcopal leader failed to appear on the letter against U.S. military aid for Israel.  The online petition urges Jefferts Schori to “take a stand for justice for the Palestinians by adding her signature to the letter to Congress.”

Last month poor Bishop Jefferts Schori received another similar negative appeal from the Palestine Israel Network of the Episcopal Peace Fellowship.  She had written both U.S. presidential candidates to commend “a just and peaceful resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.”   In it she had cited the regional complexities against peace, including a “nuclear Iran; continued Israeli settlement building, particularly in and around Jerusalem, at a pace and pattern that complicates the territorial contiguity of a future Palestinian state; unacceptable levels of violence on all sides; and the humanitarian disaster of the Gaza Strip.”   She urged that “American political leadership” work to “play a catalytic role in supporting the work of peacemakers.”

The curious Palestine Israel Network of the Episcopal Peace Fellowship asked Jefferts Schori why she had failed to sign the letter to Congress against military aid for Israel.  This group reminded her that this year’s Episcopal General Convention had called for the U.S. to “hold in escrow aid to Israel by an amount equal to any expenditures by the Government of Israel to expand, develop or further establish Israeli settlements in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and only release the aid from escrow if proof is given that settlements are not being established.”

So naturally the anti-Israel Episcopalians were “perplexed” about Bishop Jefferts Schori’s failure to sign the letter to Congress. “We could not have a clearer policy base for you to join in this important initiative,” they told her.  “We hope to see your name added in the coming days.”  These irritated Episcopalians were further miffed that her letter had implied that there are “two equal parties to the conflict” and never mentioned their favorite word: “occupation.”  They complained that readers of her letter to the presidential candidates would not understand from her omissions that Israel has been “oppressing the Palestinians living in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza since 1967.”

The anti-Israel Episcopalians even announced to their Presiding Bishop:  “We believe our Church should review its policy of support for a two-state solution in light of Israel’s continuing expansionist policies that seriously draw into question its commitment to this goal.” So evidently they prefer to dissolve Jewish Israel in favor of a new “Palestine” where Jews are at least momentarily a tolerated minority.  The querulous Episcopalians told Jefferts Schori that they seek a “common witness from our Church on behalf of justice for oppressed Palestinians and liberation from the role of oppressor by Israel so that our common vision of peace and security can be realized for all Israeli Jews and Palestinians.” How evenhanded.

In a similar spirit of piling on Israel, The Carter Center released a news release commending the October 5 ecumenical appeal for Congress to reconsider U.S. military aid for Israel. “Like these church leaders, The Carter Center has long been concerned about Israel’s disregard for stated U.S. policy,” it explained. “This is demonstrated by an unprecedented massive increase in encroachment on occupied Palestinian territory, with illegal settlement expansion during recent years.”  The former president himself was even quoted:  “This is precluding the possibility of a two-state solution and endangers a peaceful future for both Israelis and Palestinians.”

Meanwhile, pro-Israel Presbyterians reacted to their denomination’s Stated Clerk having endorsed the October 5 ecumenical appeal against Israel.  “Israel should be judged alongside the human rights records of the Palestinian group Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Authority (PA), which governs the West Bank,” suggested Presbyterians for Middle East Peace, which noted that U.S. funds the PA directly and Hamas indirectly through the UN.  “We think all of the Jewish groups offended by the letter to Congress, and a great many Christians, ourselves included, would more than welcome such a side-by-side comparison.”  No doubt.

These pro-Israel Presbyterians also observed:  “Given the outspoken commitment of the leaders of Iran, in alliance with Hamas and Hezbollah, to ‘annihilate’ Israel, loss of security assistance and military aid would threaten Israel’s very existence and the lives of its people.” It’s an obvious point, and not one that evidently concerns the ecumenical, mostly Mainline Protestant letter signers the least bit.

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  • kelly

    They are not Christians, Period. They mention the name of Jesus and the wonderful things he said when it suits them. Wolves in sheeps clothing.

    • David R

      So very true… chaff calling itself Wheat (Wheat being the true blood-bought children of God).
      Blind fools who have no understanding of the Bible nor the promises of God regarding His beloved Israel and its true Jews.
      Nevertheless, God's plan must unfold and the God-hating Jew-haters are a part of it…unfortunately to their eternal loss and shame.

    • Sola Scriptura

      kelly: "They are not Christians, Period."

      Says WHOM? Based on who's criteria do you judge their position with GOD or, their Salvation?

      Critics have long leveled the charge of “divisive” and “negative” against those who would warn the church of unbiblical teachings and practices.

      Can you give a Biblical definition of: "A CHRISTIAN" ?

      ~ DO recall the thief on the Cross.

      - HOW did the Thief on The CROSS score with your personal theology?

      Critics have long leveled the charge of “divisive” and “negative” against those WE who would warn the church of unbiblical teachings and practices.

      - A very discouraging and destructive trend has been growing in the body of Christ.

      • titus 3:5

        RE: "They are not Christians, Period. They mention the name of Jesus and the wonderful things he said when it suits them. Wolves in sheeps clothing. "

        I agree with sola scriptura. On which Scriptural reference does "kelly" base his/her position that salvation is denied to these persons?

    • John

      Lol, how brain washed are dispensationalists. Dispensationalism is the biggest doctrine of devils produced by satan in the last 200 yrs with the rapture, premillenianism theory and zionism attached to it. These people you say are not christians just don't like the Khazars and Azkanazi's living in Israel, a people group that adopted Judaism around 850AD while they stil lived in Khazaria. Ever heard of http://www.jewsagainstzionism?

      • John

        Dispensationalism or better, dual covenant theology has doubled everything up. (peoples, judgements, covenants, ressurections) two peoples of God instead of one new creation, in Christ there's no jew. no gentile, no male no female et and he, who is circumsized by heart is a REAL Jew, Paul says. The last thing John wrote in Revelation just before God punished the Jews for rejecting Jesus as Messiah in 70AD in Revelation was that they are not real Jews but of the synagogue of satan. It was Blackstone who got dispensationalism (invented by Darby) into British politics because of his connections. Amazing that a doctrine like this can cause so much bloodshed, all because we fail to interpret Revelation rightly and believe that the temple in ch.11 still has to be built (that Revelation is future) and so we had to help people who claim they are real jews but in reality are decendents of Khazars to a land that belonged for the last 2000 yrs to Semite Arabs, Christians and Orthodox Judaistic Jews.

        • John

          Most orthodox Jews around the world are also against the state of Israel and believe that God exiled them on purpose. Although I am far from a Calvinist, Jerry Johnson was right when he said that most evangelicals and pentecostals are intellectual anemic.They just follow the latest end time book instead of their Bibles and take everything coming from christian television as gospel. Anti-Zionism is not ant-semetic, besides the Arabs look more semetic than the blond and blue eyed people living on stolen Palestinian land tht call themselves Jews and yet 75% is atheistic. Jews in the OT were people adhering to Judaism, not a race, God was never interested in race but in the heart. Moses married an Etheopian woman and God never objected, Ruth was a Moabith, David a man after Gods heart etc etc

          • John

            God wanted the Jews to use the tithes for the orphan, the STRANGER and the widow, because he allowed other peope to adopt Judaism. In the NT a Jew is now someone who is circumsized by heart as in Christ there is NO Jew, NO gentile anymore but only a new creation. Stop being double minded. God wil never go back to the Old Covenant, not even for the people you believe are jews. He cannot crusify Jesus again just for them. One way – Jesus! For every man and woman on this earth. He is the only way to the Father and it would be an abonimation for God to go back to what is absolete.

          • John

            O yes, I have come to the conclusion that it all started with Darby who connected Daniels last week in Daniel 9 with the 3,5 yrs in Revelation that the beast persecuted the christians. In Daniel it says that in the middle of the week he will make an end to sacrifices and so, half of 7 yrs (the last week of the seventy weeks, 70 weeks = 490 yrs) is also 3,5 years. He postponed the last week to the future to have an answer to skeptics who were mocking the second coming (around 1830 as Darwinism, Universalsm and other thought in society became stronger.) Yet, in the Daniel 9 there is no mentioning of words like anti christ, beast, end times or tribulation. Also no indication that the last week wouldn't be part of the full 490 yrs. Daniel would have never accepted such an interpretation and neither John in Revelation nor his orginal audience the first churches, that what they wrote would not happen in thousands.

          • John

            John wrote four times that the things he wrote would hapend shortly, in the beginning of Rev. and at the end. How deceitful to give hope those churches under persection and say one thing in his letter but actually mean 2000 yrs later. Dispensationalist fail to right divide the Word of God. They r hyper literalists like the Jews who thought Jesus was talking about the temple while He talked about his own body and like Nicodemus who thought he had to go back into his mothers womb. Anyway, back to hald way the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel. Ever considered that Jesus made an end to sacrifices after 3,5 years of ministry? No gap in Daniel 490 yrs means automatically no future tribulation, no escape rapture and no dooms day pessimestic world view Revelation scenario's. So everything stands or falls with that last week of Daniel and your view on it. :-)

  • john spielman

    If one looks at those denominations that oppose Israel, it 's obvious that these churchs are dying because of their apostasy. the faithful church supports Israel. the ELCA is being torn apart by the member churches leaving because the ELCA no longer worship Christ but the anti Christ.

  • Cheryl

    Amen Kelly! And what about the leftist American Jews who feel Gay Marriage and "Women's Issues" are were more important than Israel? As a Catholic who is a strong supporter of Israel, the latter reality is what particularly galls me. Then again I ran into the Democratic poll worker at a restaurant the night after the election. It seems he is also Catholic. He apparently doesn't care about our church's religious freedom, either. I feel like Alice in Wonderland!

    • George_Babbitt

      The 'State of Israel' has same-sex marriage as legal since 1963, nationally recognized same-sex marriages performed in other countries, same-sex adoption, gays open in the military, bans anti-gay discrimination, and has laws protecting gender identity/expression. All of these things the 'State of Israel' has had for a long time now. Maybe the Israel-firsters have brought it to America.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_count

  • Jane Baer

    I'm not a church-goer, but I'm proud of my Protestant heritage and I have read the Bible and I believe that those within Christian Churches who do not support the Jewish state in the middle east are not following the Bible. If there are those who do not follow the Bible, they should stop going to Church. Either believe and be a part of the Biblical religion or do not participate. The reason is because to be negative on the Jewish state in the Middle east is simply not Biblical and they run the risk of playing devil in God's house…it is a free country you can have any opinion just stop going to church and using denominations to promote evil asdefinedby your denomination. Simple and very easy…just sotp going to church.

    • Mary Sue

      You know what's weird, is I think that in the anti-semitic factions among Christians, there's been a rush to embrace the Palestinians in a strange sort of "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" dynamic. Except the Palestinians actually aren't their friend.

      • George_Babbitt

        There are more Christian Palestinians than there are Christian Jews.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The assassin of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy, sirhan sirhan, is a "paleswinian christian".

          And he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

          • George_Babbitt

            There you go again, trying to invalidate something just because of what someone else did. Name me one member of any group in the history of the entire world that has done no wrong aside from Jesus Christ?

    • charles fadeley

      In the new testament where Paul is being told of what Christ thought of the seven church ages he tell Paul that the laodicean church which represents the last church age that he rejects it. He says you are neither hot or cold and I spew the out of my mouth. He is talking about the church of today. The church is little more than a club for psesudo intelectuals to beat their chests and preen.

      • David R

        Actually the last book of the Bible called Revelation, it's the Apostle John exiled on the Island of Patmos who received the inspiration from the Holy Spirit…and not Paul as you mention.

      • George_Babbitt

        That dispensationalism that stems from the Darby/Scofield heresies will not fly. There is no different ages and eras. God does not change, and He defines the time and space and He has been constant. It is mankind who has changed, not Him.

  • Toecutter

    What if? Whatever? What?

    What would the world do without a head to kick, under the aegis of some bloody man-made religion? What would people do without religion?

    What would you all do?

    Would you all sit down and contemplate?

    No.

    Humanity would just conjure up something else

    Another avenue for persecution. Such is the human condition.

    The Twenty Worst Century is nothing more than a continuation of the same old crap.

    You fight the same old wars and I’m so tired of you all.

    • Ghostwriter

      Well,Toecutter. We're tired of your garbage,so there.

      • Toecutter

        Pull yourself.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Cut yourself.

  • Steve Chavez

    FAKE CHRISTIANS AND FAKE JEWS have infiltrated every religious organization and since they are there to be VOCAL, therefore, speaking over the majority who is not heard, they have the bullhorn and always promote everything against GOD, JESUS, AND ISRAEL!

    THIS COMES FROM LIBERATION THEOLOGY OF THE 1980'S IN CENTRAL AMERICA when these FAKES raised awareness and funds to aid in ATHEISTIC COMMUNIST REVOLUTION. Now come BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

    JEWS OVERWHELMING VOTED FOR OBAMA and he pandered to them by saying he has "Israel's back." These gullible dupes have just given Obama his dream of destroying ISRAEL, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT HE'S GOING TO CONVERT TO ISLAM!!!

    • Diann

      Seven – Obama is already Muslim. Both his father and step father were Muslim and that in the eyes of the Islamic world makes him one of their own. Also – when a person's words and actions to not align, you always believe the actions. Obama has consistently supported the Islamic way and opposed the US constitution. This an is already Muslim – most people have simply not realized it, or if they do, do not comprehend the seriousness of having a Muslim in the White House.

      • RevolveNews

        Obama's mother and grandparents left the mainline Protestant churches they attended, and became members of the Universal Church (aka Universalist; Unitarian; Unity Church). This is a New Age religion in the sense that it is not primarily a Christian church, but all religions under one roof. Obama believes that all religions, Islam included, lead you to God and heaven; although he follows the Christian tradition. He doesn't believe that God would send anyone to a Hell, or that Hell even exists, but Yeshua (Jesus) mentions that dreadful place many times in the scriptures. Yeshua also said, many times, that He is the only way to salvation.

        Anyone who actually reads and studies the Bible can discern the false doctrine of the Universalist Church. True Christians are called to love and reach out to all people, but not to compromise our faith in Yeshua or His teachings.

        Cathleen Falsani, a religion writer for the Chicago Sun Times, interviewed Obama about his religious beliefs. You can find the interview on-line if you key it into Google.

    • George_Babbitt

      Romney and Obama are both Zionist puppets, they just have masters of different stripes both shooting for the same pro-Israel stance. They look 'wrong' to the other side just so they keep us distracted from their anti-Christ antics.

      • Ghostwriter

        Where did you dream up that statement,Mr. Babbitt? From your own twisted mind or long hours of reading "Mein Kampf" or going to Stormfront?

        • George_Babbitt

          I have no Aryan, white, Nazi supremacy fantasies or even racial supremacy ideas like the Jews of this world and their chosen(obsolete)racial status. All humans are equal, including Jews, they gave up preferential treatment when they gave up Christ for execution. As Peter said “God has no favorites”.

          P.S. Ghostwriter, still looking for a response to that question from a week ago, I was disappointed when you ducked out.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            The Romans crucified Christ.

            Take it up with Rome.

          • George_Babbitt

            The Jews at the time of Christ didn't rule themselves, so they didn't have the courage to assert what they should have done themselves, and not try to shift the blame to another as they "But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"" Luke 23:21

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Who were the Roman soldiers? Eskimos?

          • George_Babbitt

            No they were yet another pagan tool that God used to punish the sin loving people that rejected Him yet again as evidenced by all that took place in 70 A.D. as Christ prophesied would happen. i.e. 'your house is desolate' and 'not one stone upon another' to name a few.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            So God used sin loving pagan tools to crucify Christ?

          • George_Babbitt

            At the most strenuous insistence of His former people, yes.

            Just as He did with the Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Egyptians, Grecians…

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Without the Roman soldiers there would not have been a crucifixion.

            Without the Roman soldiers there would not have been a resurrection.

            Without the Jews, there would be no written Ten Commandments.

            Without the Old Testament, there would be no New Testament.

            Without the Jews, there would be no Jesus.

            Christians owe a lot to Judaism.

            Too much death and destruction in the world is due to FAKE Christians.

            Instead of Love Thy Neighbor, something worse happened.

          • George_Babbitt

            I owed nothing to anyone except God, and He has paid my ransom, so my debt is paid even there. Jews did not create God. Judaism did not create Christ. The Old Testament did not create the New Testament. Neither writing nor Jews created the Ten Commandments. Roman soldiers did not resurrect anyone. The Roman soldiers only did what they would not ALLOW the Jews to do themselves.
            God is responsible and made possible all things that have happened. It probably borders on a word I shall not use to claim otherwise.

    • RevolveNews

      The Lord will never abandon Israel. It's our country that I'm the most worried about. President Obama did attend a BLT church, but he still adheres to the teachings of the Universal Church.

      Sorry to sway from the subject a bit. Obama is more of a New World Order president than George Bush Sr. was. Yes, the first President Bush supported the New World Order; I heard his speech on the subject. I sure hope that my Dad doesn't lose his doctors as a result of our new, tyrannical health care system. Ugh!!! I still can't believe how anyone could be so deceived by those crooked Democrats. Perhaps the government workers and unions will learn their lesson when our health care system becomes like Great Britain's. They will have to fly to India to get prompt treatment.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Anyone who believes Obamas claim that after 20 years in the pews of Rev Wrights church, Obama never heard Anti-American rants from Wright is a deluded fool.

        Obama never heard it first hand, never heard about it from his wife, never heard about it from fellow parishioners, never read about it in church newsletters.

        PT Barnum would have a field day with Obamatons.
        .

        • RevolveNews

          “Anyone who believes Obamas claim that after 20 years in the pews of Rev Wrights church, Obama never heard Anti-American rants from Wright is a deluded fool. ”

          Yes, deception is a big problem in our nation these days. In my opinion, Obama and his cronies are bigger liars than Bill Clinton ever was. The unbalanced mainstream media helped Obama get re-elected. The conservative media exposed Rev. Wrights church, but these red flags seem to have been ignored by the electorate; canceled out by constant Leftist propaganda. Obama’s supporters do not care what he thinks about our country, as long as they keep getting their freebies and government checks.

      • George_Babbitt

        You said "The Lord will never abandon Israel." He has before. But not before they abandoned Him.

        1 Kings 9:7 "then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples."
        Psalm 69:25 "May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents."
        Isaiah 5:9 "The LORD Almighty has declared in my hearing: "Surely the great houses will become desolate, the fine mansions left without occupants."
        Jeremiah 22:5 "But if you do not obey these commands, declares the LORD, I swear by myself that this palace will become a ruin."

        But all is not lost, they may find peace again Matthew 23:39 "For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" As it is with all on this planet, when they accept Christ Jesus, they will find the peace of God, but not before.

        • RevolveNews

          ROMANS 11:16-24

          16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
          17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
          18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
          19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
          20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
          21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
          22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
          23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
          24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

          New King James Version

          GENESIS 12:1-3

          12 Now Adonai said to Avram, “Get yourself out of your country, away from your kinsmen and away from your father’s house, and go to the land that I will show you.
          2 I will make of you a great nation, I will bless you, and I will make your name great; and you are to be a blessing.
          3 I will bless those who bless you, but I will curse anyone who curses you; and by you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

          Complete Jewish Bible

          ISAIAH 43:1-7

          The Redeemer of Israel

          43 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
          And He who formed you, O Israel:
          “Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
          I have called you by your name;
          You are Mine.
          2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
          And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
          When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
          Nor shall the flame scorch you.
          3 For I am the Lord your God,
          The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
          I gave Egypt for your ransom,
          Ethiopia and Seba in your place.
          4 Since you were precious in My sight,
          You have been honored,
          And I have loved you;
          Therefore I will give men for you,
          And people for your life.
          5 Fear not, for I am with you;
          I will bring your descendants from the east,
          And gather you from the west;
          6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
          And to the south, ‘Do not keep them back!’
          Bring My sons from afar,
          And My daughters from the ends of the earth—
          7 Everyone who is called by My name,
          Whom I have created for My glory;
          I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”

          New King James Version

    • Parenthetical Phrase

      Yes,many American Jews voted for Obama again. Instead of 78%, this time it was 67%. However, Latinos (generally Catholic) voted for him over 70%, Blacks 93%, Asians 73% and leftist Protestants — well probably 100%. So we Jews are learning (slowly but surely). Christians – not so much.

    • WMJ

      this is hilarious.

  • Chanameel

    All Christians must understand the Jesus was a Very Orthodox Jew and a Master Kabbalist in Healing.

    John the Baptist was a Very Orthodox Jew and a Master Kabbalist in" Mekvah" or Baptism.

    Christians and Jews
    actually believe in the same G-d.

    The Lord G-d of Israel.

    • David R

      Jesus was much more than a Kabbalist…He was and still is the Saviour of all those who believe…to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. (Romans 1:16)
      The blood He shed on the cross cleanses believers from all sin… "and there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."(1 John 1:7b and Acts 4:12)

      • Stern

        Sorry mate, but Jesus was and is not a saviour to the Jews.

        • David R

          Don't be sorry mate…just read Romans chaps 9 thru 11, and also Zecharia chap 12. God willing, you will understand that the God of Israel keeps His promises towards Israel, and yes Israel will be saved!

    • RevolveNews

      "Christians and Jews actually believe in the same G-d; the Lord G-d of Israel."

      Yes, you are correct. My Lord and Savior is very Jewish! And He loves Israel, and His people in Israel.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ant.aloy.9 Ant Aloy

    Dear All

    The UN view of the Palestinian Territories can be seen at the following URL: http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/OCHA_IsrSettlementPoli….

    The West Bank and East Jerusalem is occupied Palestine (recognised by 132 nations in the world including India, China, Russia, Brazil, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Iceland). Palestine is still illegally held and sadly Israel has ignored the ruling of the International Court of Justice (subsequently supported by the UN and EU) with respect to the "separation barrier". This "wall" is 3 times the length of the Berlin Wall.

    UNESCO's support of Palestine last year and its recognition of the nation was supported by France, Spain, Ireland, Norway, Belgium, Greece and other European nations.

    Incidentally, even the Vatican Church does not recognise Israel's control over the Palestinian Territories. International law and UN Resolutions (over which there are over 150) are ignored by Israel.

    God bless

    *** UN Security Council Resolution 478 (1980) of 20 August 1980 – BINDING
    The Security Council, recalling its resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming again that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible; deeply concerned over the enactment of a "basic law" in the Israeli Knesset proclaiming a change in the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, with its implications for peace and security; noting that Israel has not complied with resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming its determination to examine practical ways and means, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, to secure the full implementation of its resolution 476 (1980), in the event of non-compliance by Israel ; Censures in the strongest terms the enactment by Israel of the "basic law" on Jerusalem and the refusal to comply with relevant Security Council resolutions;
    http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/DDE590C6FF232

    *** Resolution 694 (1991) – BINDING
    Adopted by the Security Council at its 2989th meeting on 24 May 1991

    The Security Council,

    Reaffirming its resolution 681 (1990),

    Having learned with deep concern and consternation that Israel has, in violation of its obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and acting in opposition to relevant Security Council resolutions, and to the detriment of efforts to achieve a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, deported four Palestinian civilians on 18 May 1991,

    1. Declares that the action of the Israeli authorities of deporting four Palestinians on 18 May is in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which is applicable to all the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;

    2. Deplores this action and reiterates that Israel, the occupying Power, refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the save and immediate return of all those deported;

    3. Decides to keep the situation under review.

    *** Resolution 672 (1990) – BINDING

    Adopted by the Security Council at its 2948th meeting on 12 October 1990

    The Security Council,

    Recalling its resolutions 476 (1980) and 478 (1980),
    Reaffirming that a just and lasting solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict must be based on its resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973) through an active negotiating process which takes into account the right to security for all States in the region, including Israel, as well as the legitimate political rights of the Palestinian people,

    Taking into consideration the statement of the Secretary-General relative to the purpose of the mission he is sending to the region and conveyed to the Council by the President on 12 October 1990,

    1. Expresses alarm at the violence which took place on 8 October at the Al Haram al Shareef and other Holy Places of Jerusalem resulting in over twenty Palestinian deaths and to the injury of more than one hundred and fifty people, including Palestinian civilians and innocent worshippers;

    2. Condemns especially the acts of violence committed by the Israeli security forces resulting in injuries and loss of human life;

    3. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention, which is applicable to all the territories occupied by Israel since 1967;

    4. Requests, in connection with the decision of the Secretary-General to send a mission to the region, which the Council welcomes, that he submit a report to it before the end of October 1990 containing his findings and conclusions and that he use as appropriate all the resources of the United Nations in the region in carrying out the mission.

    24th April 2012 – UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said:

    “I strongly condemn the Israeli government’s decision yesterday to turn three illegal outposts in the West Bank into settlements. I urged the Israeli government in my statement on 5 April to remove – not legalise – outposts across the West Bank. “

    • Stern

      Clearly, it is way past time for Israel to stand by the rights given to the Jewish people at the San Remo Conference of 1920 and enshrined in international law by the League of Nations and subsequently, by the United Nations Charter. Israel has full, undisputed right to all the land it now controls, including Jerusalem. International lawyer Dr. Jacques Gautier spent more than 20 years studying this, wrote his doctoral thesis on the subject and successfully defended it, which means that his work must have passed serious scrutiny.

      As for today's United Nations, ICJ and others, their biases are well-known and preclude any possible fair treatment of Israel. So list away, ant, you fail to impress.

    • Mary Sue

      And we should listen to the UN and take it seriously exactly WHY, now?

      I refuse to grant any credibility to an organization that lets the worst human rights abusers oversee Human Rights panels within the UN itself.

      East Jerusalem is Occupied Land? Really? REALLY? DUDE IT IS PART OF JERUSALEM! It was "occupied" BEFORE!!!

      Non-compliance? No. It's "Dood no I am not suiciding."

  • http://www.facebook.com/ant.aloy.9 Ant Aloy

    Furthermore, I would like to refer you to specific serious concerns raised by the International Court of Justice (2004) – with relevance to the ‘security barrier’ – which was viewed with alarm by the international community. Incidentally the reference to the illegality of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem was also reinforced when the International Court of Justice also found the following (indeed the EU supported the UN vote pertaining to the ‘security barrier’):

    * That the separation barrier is intended to assist the settlements, the establishment of which violates Article 49 of the Convention. Also, the court pointed out that the restrictions placed on the local population located between the barrier and the Green Line are liable to lead to abandonment of the land, which also constitutes a violation of Article 49. In addition, the opinion stated that taking control of private land to build the barrier injured private property owners, and thus violated Articles 46 and 52 of the Hague Regulations of 1907 and of Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

    * The illegality of the barrier under international human rights law. In this context, the court stated unequivocally, and contrary to the position held by Israel, that international human rights law applies in its entirety in occupied territory, along with humanitarian law. The court ruled that the separation barrier violates rights set forth in conventions to which Israel is party. The court mentioned the rights to freedom of movement and the right against invasion of privacy of home and family, which are enshrined in Articles 12 and 17 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the right to work, to an adequate standard of living, health, and education, which are enshrined in Articles 6, 11, 12, and 13 of the International covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural rights.

    • Mary Sue

      The ICC can kiss my grits. With idiots like former supreme court justice of Canada Louise Arbor being in there, stupid decisions are their raison d' etre. They haven't got a clue and are steeped in insane ignorant pro-Palestinian propaganda.

      The UN and the ICC is just plain flat out wrong. What they call "occupied territory" was taken after a war of INVASION BY THE OTHER TEAM (Egypt, Jordan, etc.). Technically it can't be occupied land by any stretch of the imagination, because Israel was NOT the one that started it.

      Palestinians could easily move back to Jordan and Egypt and Syria and Lebanon if those countries stopped being stupid. Problem solved.

      • George_Babbitt

        The Jews started the fight when they illegally declared the formation of the 'State of Israel' in 1948, violating the agreement they had made with the international community they used to get in position to do the dirty deed.

        • Mary Sue

          Why do I get the feeling I'm listening to revisionist history right about now?

          "illegal", psssh. International Law is bs anyway. Nobody got elected to that. They are unaccountable to the people of the world. Therefore their authority in my eyes is bogus.

          • George_Babbitt

            The Jews were huge fans of the international law when it wrested the land from people that were left behind after the collapse of the Ottoman empire and gave it the Jews under the condition that they develop a two-state solution with Jerusalem as it's capital. There is nothing revisionist about that, I'm not creating a Palestinian people anymore than the kibbutzim created the Israeli people out of immigrants by separating the children to be raised by surrogates so they wouldn't pick up any of the old-country ways while they were learning to be Israeli.

          • Mary Sue

            What, were the Arabs that were living there at the time thrown out or something?

          • George_Babbitt

            Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
            And don't argue with the source. Wikipedia is totally in line with all Zionist propaganda, and even they admit to the Palestinian exodus of 1948 that was on the order of 700,000 indigenous peoples.

          • Mary Sue

            The Arab countries told them to get out and then promised they'd get to go back in when they invaded in 1967.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            800,000 Jews fled for the lives from Islamist lands like Yemen, Iraq, Egypt.

            It's a wash.

            Babbling Babbit, How do you explain your brutal occupation of Native American land?

          • George_Babbitt

            "Screw Socialism" I must say, I hope your not a Jew. This is the 'Sabbath' after all, and you have been very busy all day floating around and offering your sage 'advice' on every post I made yesterday. You folks need to stop reading the Herzl/Hagee history books. Even Benny Morris admits that the cleansing happened, and celebrates it as being necessary.

            As to 'my' brutal occupation of Native American land, you will notice it took three to four hundred years hear in America to accomplish what the Jews accomplished in a few decades using true brutality.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The Jews "started" the fight when they hit back.

          Happy Eternal Nakba!

          • George_Babbitt

            They started the fight when just living peaceably alongside their Arab neighbors, they up and declared the land was theirs, and the Arabs said no.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jews were in Israel long before the bandit mohammed came on the scene.

            Arabs peaceful? Tell it to the people in Allepo Syria. Or the Muslims killing the wrong kind of Muslim.

          • George_Babbitt

            Unbelievable, when will we get to the important point here that Muslims don't matter. They are wrong in their theology, dogma and what they do with what they believe. There is no question there, and they pose such a tiny threat to the world at large, mostly because they can't work together in numbers more than a few thousand. The corruption of the Gospel by the influence of accommodating ideology for the sake of the Jews is the far more dangerous and seductive force out there.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            A tiny threat to the world at large?

            Today close to 10% of France is Muslim, similarly the UK, Sweden and other eurotrash countries are undergoing a demographic change.

            Things are going to turn ugly real soon.

          • George_Babbitt

            Settle down chicken little, focus on real threats i.e. the Chinese, Russians, and the South and Central American COUNTRIES that have stable existences and a dislike for the U.S.A. way.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Who cares if a bunch of Third World dictatorships dislike the USA.

            The US needs to maintain its qualitative military edge over your friends.

            I fear what the Red/Green Obama has planned for the US.

            Thankfully the Congress is Republican.

          • George_Babbitt

            Once again you ignore the elephants in the room to strawman using the smaller players on the field. They are China and Russia, and they are the real contenders for the title superpower and temporal control of this world.

          • George_Babbitt

            First off, being in that area does not equate being in Israel. There hasn't been a land called Israel since King David. What else does the diaspora and exile mean if it isn't that they have not been there?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jews have been in Israel for a long time, before the bandit mohammed came on the scene.

            Too bad for Islamists that the Israelis are too powerful, can't be defeated by Arab hordes.

            eurabia can go to Hell in a handbasket.

          • George_Babbitt

            Jews HAD been in the Holy Land a long time ago.
            What hordes? There hasn't been a horde since Saladin.
            Once again, if they can do it alone against those terrible Arabs, then why are our American sons and daughters going off to fight their fights?
            You keep bringing up the E.U. as if I care, or had even mentioned them.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            "the Arabs said no."

            The thief always says no.

          • George_Babbitt

            No, the thief always says yes, otherwise he wouldn't be a thief.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            The Arabs said no to Israel because Arabs want to keep their ill gotten gains.

            Anyone who doesn't like living in a particular country can pack up and relocate.

            I hear Mecca is nice, as long as you aren't an Infidel.

          • George_Babbitt

            That land was part of the Ottoman empire from 1500 to 1918. Before that we go from caliphate to caliphate back to the Crusader States(why didn't they give it all to the Jews when they conquered the area) to the Byzantine empire which took over following the Christianization of the Roman empire to the Macedonian back to the Persian, back to the Achaemenid Persian empire back to the and we still need to go back a couple more empire that had total control of that land till we get to the Kingdom of Israel under David circa 1000 B.C.

    • Ghostwriter

      Well,we know which side George_Babbitt is on. He's in the Schlockmotion,"I Hate Jews and Israelis Because They Exist,"club.

      • The Truth

        Your analysis excludes the possibility that Jews can coordinate bad behavior in the service of an ignoble ideal. That seems like a rather sweeping denial on your part.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The BS, Make that Arabs and you may be onto something.

          • George_Babbitt

            The Arabs have been wrong on so many fronts, but 1000 wrongs don't make even one wrong by another right. The Jews there are at fault too.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Arabs killing people all over the planet, killing Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais and the wrong kind of Muslim.

            Someone has issues.

          • George_Babbitt

            Snore…….the Muslims don't matter. The Chinese, the Russians, the different South and Central American countries, that actually border the U.S., they matter. They all manage to maintain stable governments, and don't much care for the west. Iran is the only Muslim country that talks about the U.S. in negative way that has a stable government, and that's just talk, they've never done anything about it. All the other stable Muslim countries i.e. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, Pakistan, U.A.E., Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman have great relationships with the U.S., otherwise the U.S. wouldn't have military bases by the dozens located in those countries. Where do we not have even ONE U.S. military base located???? The 'State of Israel'.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            1.5 billion Muslims don't matter?

            LOL!

            Israel is capable of defending itself when it has the tools to do so. And Israel has very little oil that need defending.

            Sadly Obama will continue the US dependence on OPEC oil.

            A President Romney would have gotten the US to be self sufficient.

            If you think gas is expensive now, just watch the next four years.

          • George_Babbitt

            1.5 billion is a fun number to cry about, but let me see more than a few hundred of them have the same thought on what to do at the same time, and act on that thought beyond yelling in their own streets and burning some stuff and then I'll worry.

            If Israel can defend itself, why does the U.S. give it any aid or sacrifice our children for it's causes and problems?

            Please do tell, O Great Wise One, how we separate ourselves from OPEC oil???? It accounts for 80% of the worlds oil reserves. The U.S. uses half again as much as the E.U. and twice as much as China. The U.S. uses 19 million barrels a day, 10 million of those are imported. The Alaskan pipeline can't even put out enough oil to keep the snow on top of it melted off anymore. Republicans want that Keystone pipeline to connect Mexico/Gulf oil and Canadian oil to U.S. internal locations, yet they can't stand Mexico or Canada.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            It took 19 to perpetrate 9/11.

            Hence checkpoints at every airport in the world.

            Israel can defend itself, with the proper tools. Tools that FAKE christians want to deny Israel.

            Americas children have been killed by Islamofascists, who kill and maim all over the world.

            Americas children have died to defeat your heroes of WW2 – your heroes who SURRENDERED UNCONDITIONALLY.

            Americans died in Libya. Hillary says she takes responsibility. What does that mean? Does she resign?.

            The US supports Israel because Israel is an ally of the US, unlike the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamist dictatorships that make up the Arab/Islamist world.

            The US has lots of oil. Canada has oil. Mexico has oil.

            People don't like being charged $4+ AFTER TAX dollars for overpriced gasoline. The ENTIRE WORLD is being raped with overpriced oil.

            If you like paying $4+ per gallon gas, from $100 per barrel oil, have fun.

          • George_Babbitt

            Now you're going to conflate all the ills of the world down onto this issue to further distract from the points raised. You just don't quit with this transference of blame thing, it's pathological in nature, do you have a therapist? Do you confide this issue to them?

            BTW, my heroes are the Apostles of Christ and his disciples through the millennium who have carried the torch of truth that Chris is the King, and the High Priest, and the Last Adam and the begotten Son of God, the incarnate, God in man. There shall never be another and no one needs any other. No one goes to God except through Him, and no one ever shall. There is no longer Jew nor Gentile, all are one in Christ Jesus and the rest are just working towards that time when they are also part of the that oneness.

      • RevolveNews

        Babbitt is really a closet Muslim posing as a fake Christian.

        • George_Babbitt

          Don't do that please, it's not becoming. I have professed my devotion to Christ Jesus. You may not agree with the positions I take with regard to that profession, but you may not take away my profession.

  • Stern

    Unfortunately, as a Jew, I am still more surprised when Christians support us than when they come out against us. I know we have more Christian support than ever before in history and I'm grateful for that, but still, these folks don't surprise me in the least.

    • Mary Sue

      I remember the first time I met a Jewish person, and it was in middle school. I heard from him how a lot of Christians apparently hate on Jews and I was all "WTF?" I couldn't understand it, why they would do that, and I told him so, and said to him that while I was Christian I had NEVER been told (or taught) to hate Jews. It's like, Jesus said love your neighbor, right? ("Neighbor" taken to mean EVERYBODY.)

      I also remember hearing later on, about how some Christians hate Jews "because they killed Jesus." That also earned a big fat facepalm and rolleyes from me for several reasons, mainly 1) the people that had Jesus executed died thousands of years ago and some of them reportedly had repented, and 2) Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." It HAD to happen so why should I condemn them for it?

    • Herb

      One fact is left out here. The anti Israeli “Christians” you refer to are not Christians. Their true religion is the Left, the State, Communism. These are not people of faith. They may read the Bible (On the rare Sunday that they attend church) but they do not STUDY and understand the Good Book. These folks are usually the Christmas/Easter attendees. I call their attention to Genesis 12:3 “I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
      Most of my friends are (True) Christians, and are stronger supporters of Israel, morally and financially, than most of the (Liberal) Jews I know. All Jews (I am one) need to understand that the crypto Christians will disappear as does the chaff, leaving the wheat. Great post, Stern. We must never forget that we are ALL chidren of Abraham.

      • Mary Sue

        exactly!

    • George_Babbitt

      That's because they are using you for their dispensationalist heresies where they hope to force God's hand and bring about the Second Coming of Christ. They all want you to convert to Christ eventually(as do I, but for different reasons)they just wont tell you that till you get most of your selves killed fighting fro a crap piece of land in the middle east.

      • Stern

        You really have a low opinion of us, don't you, you hate-filled excuse for humanity? Do you really think we're that stupid?
        In a world that has gone crazy with Jew-hatred (you are a prime example), we will not spurn support from good-hearted people. We are confident enough in our theology to know that whatever motives they may have are not going to make one bit of difference to the eventual end-game. You cannot change the original Word, no matter what you might have been led to believe.

        • George_Babbitt

          Which is exactly the hypocrisy that exist between Christian Zionists(yuck) and Jews. That Jews will take and take from them all the while laughing in their face, and the Christian Zionists(yuck) will keep giving believing how you poor Jews just don't understand, but you will in the end.

          • Stern

            And so you prove my original point.

          • George_Babbitt

            What point? That Jews have boondoggled Christians into supporting them despite their totally lost status.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Lost status. atheists in a nutshell.

          • RevolveNews

            You're a hater. I'm a Christian Zionist, and you do not speak for me.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Hypocrisy?

            Like "progressives" hugging Islamists?

          • George_Babbitt

            I'm not a progressive and I don't hug Islamists or Jews. I hug my brethren in Christ.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Hugging your fellow FAKE christians makes you a hypocrite.

          • George_Babbitt

            At least those 'FAKE' Christians profess Christ, and have a better hope of getting to the truth one day, then those who arrogantly declare that Christ was not the Messiah, like those Jews walking around today.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Profess Christ but act like the anti-Christ..

          • George_Babbitt

            It's a better starting point than denying Christ and acting like the anti-Christ.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Hypocrites say they are "christian" but act like anti-Christs.

          • George_Babbitt

            The world is turned on it's head when someone advocates for all persons to accept Christ as being anti-Christ.

          • shariaunveiled

            re: G. Babylon How dare you include the Jewish People with "islamists"… you rascist anti-semite. I hope you are a ron paul supporter… because "I" am the one who first outted him as the rascist, anti-semite jew-hater that he is…. I am the individual that located papers that he wrote against israel and the jewish people and I released them to all of the networks… and, I mailed a copy to all of his opposing (Bachmann, Santorum, etc.) campaigns at the beginning of the primaries. Within 24 hours… the truth was out. ;-)

            If you speak against Israel or the Jewish People… God's wrath will be upon you…!!

            If you act against Israel or the Jewish People… His Soldiers Shall Defend His Nation & People… 'till Death !!

            Shalom.

          • George_Babbitt

            Boring…..

      • Mary Sue

        I am not in that dispensational camp at all. It is not and never has been the reason for my support for Israel, nor is it a doctrine of my church.

        It is also not my place to tell anyone what they should or should not believe. It is the doctrine of my particular denomination that people don't convert other people, God does. The various beliefs of the Churches have been out there for a while; those that wish to embrace them are free to do so and I don't believe in forcing conversions, let alone badgering anyone.

        The Jews are a) God's People, b) just as much in danger of the totalitarianism of Islamism as we are, c) hold values far more similar to Christianity (as regards the basic teachings of the Torah/first 5 books of the Bible) than either would have any similarity to Islam. The ideals of Freedom are shared by both.

        • George_Babbitt

          Teachings don't matter, that is the bondage of the Law talking, and grace cannot be bound by the Law. Christ is all that matters. Once Christ is accepted, one doesn't need a list of Laws to follow, they know what they should do, and do them because they want to, not because they have to, that is grace.

    • Ghostwriter

      So sayeth George_Babbitt,the latest reincarnation of Julius Streicher.

      • George_Babbitt

        It is so sad to run to the old Nazi association smear, just about as old as the anti-Semite smear. I am not anti-Jew or anti-Semite. I am, and always will be anti-Judaism. The difference being, I am not against a people or any person. I am against the flawed, failed, corrupting ideology of Judaism, which being based on the codified death(Law)of the Talmud, thanks to Maimonides, will keep them stumbling over that block in Zion for much longer than they ever need to.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Babbling Babbit,

          You are free to hate whatever you want. You can hate yourself, destroy yourself. No one gives a crap. Sadly for you the Israelis are not the unarmed Jews of WW2 national Socialist filth infested europe – now Eurabia.

          • George_Babbitt

            Who cares what 'Eurabia', why do you think America was such a welcome place for those who didn't want to play those old game anymore, and why we don't want to play those old games with the 'State of Israel' who is filled with many first-generation Europeans that continue to play those ridiculous European games.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Without Judaism there wouldn't be Christianity.

          • George_Babbitt

            That is like saying if there had not been the First Adam, there wouldn't be the Last Adam. And yet, we have both, and never need another.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            I believe that Muslims claim that Islam supersedes Judaism and Christianity.

            Islam took elements of Judaism and Christianity and formed Islam.

            Mormons have done something similar.

            Mormonism must have replace Islam too.

          • George_Babbitt

            Once again, you distract from the important matters. Who in their right mind would confuse either Islam or that cult known as Mormons as good sources to promote Christianity???

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Your FAKE "christians" promoting Christianity only fool the simple minded – AKA socialists and MORON Paul bots.

          • George_Babbitt

            Now you're putting socialists and Ron Paul in the same sentence, as if they were anywhere near the same ideology. Ron Paul, unlike you toe-the-line RINOs who voted for Obama-lite(Rmoney)actually cares what the U.S. Constitution says, and sticks to it.

          • Mary Sue

            Did you fail to vote for Romney because he's a Mormon?

          • George_Babbitt
        • shariaunveiled

          re: G. Babylon. Somebody told you a story, that began… "once upon a time"… and ended in… "happily ever after.." and, you "bought" it…!!

          • George_Babbitt

            "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also." 1 John 2:22-23

    • shariaunveiled

      re: Stern. It is so sad that you feel that way. (Surprised when Christians support Jewish People). Sad actually, that you have evidently learned to feel that way from your personal experiences or what you have been taught… (correctly or incorrectly). Regardless, I am sure you have heard the phrases.."Divide and Conquer!"… and "A house divided cannot stand…" and, so forth….

      Are you aware that in the 'First Century Church'… the Jewish and Judeo-Christians worshipped together… side by side… arm in arm… in the same house of worship? We 'were' one body… (I still see us as one…) but, yes… unfortunately, many have been taught to see us… as two separate bodies (divided).

      Do you know what (or) whom "divided" our one house… (ie) our one united body? And, Why??

      * Here is a hint: If you know who coined the phrase…"Divide and Conquer"… you will be at the beginning of the answer…. for, the phrase was coined… specifically for the use (against) "The Jewish and Judeo-Christians."

  • Winston

    You can bet these "Christian In Name Only" professed believers (if Christian at all) will be among those who Jesus will leave behind when He returns to Rapture the true Church. Never forget there are many "kinds" of Christians just as there are variations of Jews, Muslims, and other religions. Many professed Christians say they are but have either "grown up" in their denomination as children because their mother/father took them to church, others go to church for social or business reasons, many reject "Jesus only" as the way to eternal salvation, many reject some portions of Scripture or interpret it their own way, etc,. If you are not a Bible believing (inerrently) sincere Christian you should question your own salvation.

    • Mary Sue

      Yeah, it'll be the "Not everybody who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven." Saying they follow God while doing things contrary isn't exactly a winning strategy.

      • George_Babbitt

        Jews don't even say 'Lord, Lord' they only say 'Crucify Him, Crucify Him' over and over.

  • https://www.facebook.com/olavo.decarvalho Olavo de Carvalho

    I do my best to persuade my fellow Christians to support Israel, but how can I succeed in such an endeavor if they see 70 percent of Jews voting for Obama? I think we should we should first of all make a serious effort to show the Jews themselves the seriousness of their situation under Obama.

    • RevolveNews

      Most Israeli Jews supported Romney. Bibi does not look too happy today.

      • George_Babbitt

        "Most Israeli Jews supported Romney."

        Most traitorous American Jews supported Romney.

        There, fixed that for you.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Most traitorous American FAKE "Christians" supported Barack Hussein Obama.

          Fixed that for you Babbling Babbit.

          • George_Babbitt

            You said 'Israeli' not 'Jew' suggesting the dual citizenship that many so called Americans hold with the 'State of Israel'.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Dual citizenship?

            Who do you love? You mother or your father? Which one of your children do you love – excluding all others?

            Who was timothy mcveigh? Was he a "christian" too?

          • George_Babbitt

            Yes, you said Israeli, and as it is commonly known, it possible to attain Israeli citizenship while still maintaining U.S. citizenship.

            Luke 12:53 "They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

            1 Corinthians 2:11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

          • Mary Sue

            Um, I don't know whether you're aware of this, but US now allows dual citizenship with more countries than just Israel. Canada, for example.

          • George_Babbitt

            Doesn't make it less traitorous. Here is the official policy of the U.S. State Dept on the matter: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Traitorous? timothy mcveigh was your kind of guy.

          • George_Babbitt

            Ezekiel 18

          • RevolveNews

            I like your comment. IT'S FUNNY! :-D

  • Marty

    Some of the so-called christian churches are laced with anti-semitism and probably can't be redeemed. They have been palestinized and refuse to admit that the terror, violence, brutality, and overall hatred of democracy and individual rights are all on one side. islam is offering the kool-aid to these dhimmis and they are enthusiastically and joyfully consuming it.

    • Mary Sue

      Sometimes they go with the standard anti-Jewish conspiracy theory. While I have not run into this in my own church, I've heard of other denominations that do. They're so worried about the "ebbil j00s" taking over the world that they fail to see the potential Islamic takeover which will be 100% worse than any imagined "J00s ruling the world" scenario!

    • RevolveNews

      They are members of the overall Apostate Church (it does not matter which denomination it is). I think most apostate churches embrace Replacement Theology, a harmful false doctrine.

  • Moishe Pupick

    F., 11/09/12 common era

    The Israel bashers should know that the current State of Israel consists of only about 10% of the Land that G-d promised to Abraham and to his seed forever. "From the Nile to the Euphrates. . ."

    • Stern

      And also only about 20% of the land the world promised the Jews after World War 1.

    • RevolveNews

      Isn't it something that the UN actually has the nerve to complain about Jews building settlements in Jerusalem. I can hardly believe the idiocy of that worthless organization.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        The UN has been hijacked by the same ideology that hijacked 4 passenger planes on 9/11.

        • RevolveNews

          I know. It's a tragedy. Islamic, Socialist, and Communist dictators sitting on human rights panels. Bill Clinton, the perjurer who lost his law license, calling Romney a liar. These things do not make much sense. My Christian faith, my family, and my dog are what help keep me sane in this upside down world.

          I just read a recent article from my Flame newsletter, and am appalled by how Israel is treated by the the UN. I don't want my government to be a part of the UN. Now they want to supersede our constitution and take control over our lives and property. Obama will not hesitate to go along with it. What can we do?

  • Oh Noes!

    Please do not use the word christian with anti -Israel / They are wolves in sheeps clothing.

  • Mary Sue

    The ELCA is a bunch of Leftists. While I'm quite disappointed and ashamed that they deign to consider themselves Lutherans, I am by no means surprised. The LCMS is not quite that bad yet but it's getting there.

    Episcopalians…yeah, that's "Anglicans" up here (Church of England for you UKers)….also not surprised. They have bought into the idiot rhetoric of the NDP-type pro-Palestinian ignorance.

  • http://www.themadjewess.wordpress.com MAD JEWESS

    I notice how these same gasbag churches *NEVER* say to cut aid to the 22 other leech countries that hate our guts.

    • Mary Sue

      I know right!

    • RevolveNews

      Many of the parishioners from those "gasbag" churches may be on the government payroll in some capacity, i.e., pensioners, government unions, etc. That would make them leeches as well. I think we should cut our membership from the UN, and in the process save billions. But Obama will never let that happen.

      • Mary Sue

        and don't get me started on the National Council of Churches. Ugh.

        • RevolveNews

          Yes, the NCC falls right in line with Obama's faith. National Council of Churches; the New World Order–the antichrist likes these organizations.

    • George_Babbitt

      So you agree that Israel hates our Christian guts just as much as the other 22? What they are just polite about it?

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Babblng Babbit,

        Crusades, Inquisition, pogroms, Holocaust.

        • George_Babbitt

          You keep trying to invalidate the criticism leveled at the 'State of Israel' by mentioning 'bad' things that others have done. I still don't know if you are a Jew here on the 'Sabbath' commenting on every post I make, but if you are not a Jew, and you are a Christian, then boast not of what wrongs your brethren have done, as if by some way that will make what another has done wrong, be OK.

          The Holocaust was a Christian endeavor, really??? Not the occult madness of the Aryan bear god worshipers who though that they were superior to all others? And if you really want to get down to what others have done, we can talk about what the Soviet empire did in the way of killing and murdering that wiped more humans from this planet than all the Crusades, Inquisitions and pogroms can muster combined. Were talking hundreds to thousands compared to millions to tens of millions under Soviet rule. And who do we have to thank for the Soviet monster, Jews like Karl Marx the inventor of communism, Vladimir Lenin,Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive secretary and — as chairman of the Central Executive Committee — head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Babbling Babbit, You furhers 1,000 year socialist reich only lasted about 12 years and killed tens of millions of people.

            The nationals socialists were able to kill more than the crusaders due to modern technology.

            If you furher didn't blow his brains out in his Berlin bunker, the US would have dropped one of its fission bombs on the Turd Reich.

      • RevolveNews

        George_Babbitt — you ARE A FAKE CHRISTIAN. Don't talk to me anymore! Don't be a cyber stalker.

        • George_Babbitt

          You are special, you know that? I was involved with a dozen other conversations with as many people when you jumped in and placed yourself in lieu of them and took over.

          • RevolveNews

            Yeah, you were busy spewing your hate and I interrupted you. Took over? You must not have read another one of my comments, where I pointed out that I made a mistake when I engaged you in conversation.

          • George_Babbitt

            You said "Yeah, you were busy spewing your hate"

            1 Cor 2:11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?"

            Let me make this clear, and if you deny my words and call me a liar when I have made plain to you what is in my heart, then you have no one else to blame but yourself when your words ring hollow with the assumptions you make about my mind and heart. I do NOT hate Jews. My issue is not with any person or people, it is with ideologies as all disagreements should be made. My stance is not personal, I have not made statements that imply, infer or suggest that I have made my position personal. Taking issue with ideology is respectful of persons and their individual liberty to believe what they want, yet it is also respectful of my right to voice my position against what they believe, as long as I don't infringe on their right to believe what they want. Anybody can state their position and argue for it, and that action does not make anybody do anything.

          • RevolveNews

            MATTHEW 7:15-20

            You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

            15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

            New King James Version

    • mlcblog

      I just cringe when these hideous churches are considered Christians!! horrible being identified with them. God loves people, all of us, and he loves Israel and the Jews.

      • George_Babbitt

        "and the Jews", yet no more than anyone else.

      • RevolveNews

        Yes, I cringe too. They are misinformed and lost CNOs (Christians in Name Only). I am flabbergasted as to how they side with terrorists. There is no excuse for that. G-d will hold them accountable.

  • George_Babbitt

    The anti-Christ 'State of Israel'' has no rights to the Holy Land. They lost that right when they rejected God and killed Christ. And don't spout old covenant verses at me from Genesis about eternal covenants. Jeremiah will tell you about how they broke those covenants despite God remaining faithful to it. Hebrews reiterates this fact again and again. If the redemption of Christ is not sufficient for the Jews that are walking around today, when it was sufficient for the ones that made up His apostles, disciples and followers during His earthly ministry and after, then His redemption is not sufficient for anyone, is that the kind of Gospel that the Jews have convinced you is true?

    • Stern

      YOu know what? You're an idiot. Don't you know that Christian theology has been superseded by Mohammed and his midnight communions with G-d and the prophets? If that sticks in your craw and sickens you, imagine how we feel about your little anti-Semitic rant. And then go away.

      • George_Babbitt

        The difference being that Mohammed had no prior connection to the people that he tried to supersede(love that word)unlike Christ who was a Jew and fulfilled all that was needed at the time that the last generation of true Jews walked the earth.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          And the world has seen world wide peace for the last 2,000 years.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Islam has been superseded by Scientology and it's prophet L. Ron Hubbard?
        .

        • George_Babbitt

          You just went over the crazy cliff in a bonkers boat.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            SORRY! Islam and its false prophet of Satan mohammed have been replaced by the false religion of socialism.

    • Ghostwriter

      Yuck! You're getting worse all the time,Mr. Babbitt. I'd hate to meet you in real life.

    • RevolveNews

      Anti-Christ State of Israel? What is wrong with you? You need a lot of prayer and a new church. Please stop spewing this poison. You look ridiculous and are giving Christianity a bad name. Please pray that G-d shows you the truth and study ALL of the Bible. Sure there is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant, but in G-d's eyes it all runs together–there is no separation–it is all His word and revelation. Ask G-d to open up your eyes so you can see Yeshua (Jesus) in the Old Covenant as well as the New.

      • George_Babbitt

        Do Jews hate Christ? Yes. Do they work every moment of every day that they continue in their Jewishness, spitting in God's eye for the Messiah He gave them? Yes. They are anti-Christ.
        There has only ever been one people of God. The Darby/Scofield heresy that spawned two peoples of God in the 1800's, curiously at the same time Mormonism came into being, is the lie that Zionists have taken advantage of now more than ever.

        • RevolveNews

          From George: "Do Jews hate Christ? Yes."

          Oh, they do not. Some Jewish people think Yeshua was a prophet. Others have varying opinions. But I've never met a Jew that actually hates Christ.

          You are the hater. I should not have tried to reason with you in the first place. I'll pray that G-d helps you get over your negative, hateful thinking.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jesus was born a Jew.

            Any Christian who hates Jews hates Jesus.

          • George_Babbitt

            Jesus was born a Jew, yes, but then He died as a Jew and was resurrected as a new creation, having shed the sin and death of His mortal life through His rebirth.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Any "Christian" who hates Jews hates Jesus.

            BTW, please end your brutal and racist occupation of Native American land – else you will be known as a hypocrite.

          • RevolveNews

            "Jesus was born a Jew. Any Christian who hates Jews hates Jesus. "

            Yes, you are absolutely right. This man clearly needs spiritual help.

    • David R

      I pity you out of love and concern for your soul…you have all th makings of a person who's soul will suffer hell fire eternally. What's even more ironic is that you will eternally remember your stupidity and words of the Christ-hater you are, and kick your fiery behind everytime the thought comes back to haunt you.

      • George_Babbitt

        The world has totally flipped on it's head when someone calls a Christian a Christ-hater in defense of Jews who deny Christ and hate God thereby.

        Romans 2:1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          A liar quoting the Bible is still a liar.

          • George_Babbitt

            You didn't read the comment stream did you? That was in response to someone who didn't understand the phrase 'crucify Christ again'. And as you do not seem to understand it either, I would assume by your expletive that you started your statement with that you shoudl just turn to the book of Matthew and start there.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Perhaps you feel more comfortable at a Socialist "church"?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            You must be a member of one of those socialist "churches".

          • George_Babbitt

            I attend a church that puts Christ first. Not America first, not Israel first, not social issues first, not liturgy first, not white or black first, not politics first, CHRIST FIRST.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            You're just a MORON PAUL troll.

          • George_Babbitt
  • George_Babbitt

    I bet this site didn't mention anything about the corporate dog, Hagihon, that now owns the rights to water supply in the 'State of Israel' is now charging the Church of the Holy Sepulchre so much money for water supply, even though the Church had been exempted from water bills since forever. And now the Church will have to close it's doors because it can't pay and Hagihon didn't drop a single tear.

    • Mary Sue

      credible link plx?

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Do houses of worship in the US or Eurabia pay for utilities?

      • George_Babbitt

        Once again you use a comparison to validate a wrong act. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre had an agreement. The Hagihon corporation rendered that agreement void with no notice, and then called in the debt suddenly and with no compassion. If you want a parable to illustrate the failed logic you use to compare churches in the U.S. and elsewhere with this church in this situation, you may take a look at the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard recorded in Matthew 20:1–16. An agreement was made, and an agreement was broken without renegotiation.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Babbling Babbit,

          Houses of Worship in the US pay for their utilities – at a reduced rate.

          Why would Christians be unwilling to pay the bills for a Church?

          No Double Standards please, else you shall be known as a HYPOCRITE.

          • George_Babbitt

            Your comparing again in the hopes of invalidating. Give it up.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Your attempts to demonize Israel fail because you choose to ignore the fact that churches in the US also pay for utilities.

            Anti-Israel FAKE "Christians" are socialists, "progressives" and CINO.

          • George_Babbitt

            It doesn't matter what OTHER people or organizations do. The Church and the water company had a DEAL. The water company BROKE that deal. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/02/jerusalem

  • The Truth

    The separation of Church and State is a wonderful thing. The Israel Lobby just lost resoundingly the War against the American State. This article indicates that they are also losing the War against the American Church.

    • Stern

      The joke's on you. Those particular American churches are DYING! They're losing congregants by the barrel-full, while the churches that do support Israel are vibrant and growing. Kinda makes you think about that good old bit of Genesis where G-d says to Abraham "I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you".

      Sorry fella, you're on the losing side of history. You and George Babbitt can rant and rail against the Jews all you want, but we'll be here long, long after you're gone.

      • The Truth

        I don’t know. I don’t get bogged down in which religion is better than the others. That’s kind of primitive if you ask me.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The BS,

          Let God decide.

        • Looking4Sanity

          Spoken like a true Progressive shill…and no one asked you.

    • RevolveNews

      The Israel Lobby is not at war with the American State. And my church is not at war with the Israel Lobby.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        socialists and atheists are at War with America and want to turn it into europe.

        • RevolveNews

          Yes, it's very fashionable to bash Christians, Jews, and Israel. And the crooked, socialist Democrats have taken our freedom away by afflicting us with their tyrannical health care system.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        The Red/Green, Socialist/Islamist lobby is at war with the entire world.

  • Ghostwriter

    Both George_Babbitt and The Truth need to go back to Stormfront,where their vile Jew hatred would be more welcome. Their anti-Jewish filth is disgusting and hideous. They should be ashamed of themselves but shame isn't exactly a word in their vocabularies.

    • George_Babbitt

      It's anti-Judaism, not anti-Jew. Anti-corrupt-obsolete theology vs anti-person. I am not anti-person. Each person has the same worth in God's and my eyes. It is the Jew that claims to have more worth in God's eyes, and the Christian Zionist who has been fooled, that is anti-every-other-person-on-earth.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Babbling Babbit, You seem to be upset that your side lost WW2.

        Good.

        • George_Babbitt

          Which side won WWII, considering the carnage and death that was wrought upon the world by both sides and the anguish that cried out from all corners of the globe, the only win was it being over.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Babbling Babbitt asked –

            Which side lost WW2?

            WW2 Victory in Europe Day: Beaten Nazis Sign Historic Surrender (1945)
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFFEKPIB0J8

          • George_Babbitt

            Captain Obvious misses the point. You're video history lesson is true, but who walked away from that conflict unscathed? No one.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Who were the aggressors in WW2?

            national SOCIALISTS.

            Who SURRENDERED UNCONDITIONALLY to the US, UK and Soviet SOCIALISTS?

            national SOCIALISTS.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            The War was started by socialists – specifically national socialists.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            A lot of "scathing" would have been avoided if the isolationist, FAKE "pacifist" forces were ignored and national socialist Germany was stopped early on.

            Same thing applies today with the Islamofascist Regime of Iran.

          • George_Babbitt

            We should have left Eurasia to rot and self-implode as it always has. Those that came to the Americas left for that very reason.

  • κατεργάζομαι

    .
    ."Anti-Israel Christians. " is an OXYMORON!

    Chrislam? Christian Palestinianism?? http://www.thebereancall.org/content/chrislam-chr

    Whenever we, as biblical Christians, think that things couldn’t possibly become more preposterous in Christendom, we need to call to mind the Scriptures that tell us that the time will come when Christians will not endure sound doctrine, and many will corrupt the Word of God.

    (2 Timothy:4:3) "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

    It seems that the apostasy (the undermining of biblical faith to prepare the way for the religion of the Antichrist) is developing at an exponential rate, and contributions are being made through a diversity of unbiblical agendas.

    • George_Babbitt

      Did you 'work that out' all by yourself, or did you pick up and start worshiping at the Darby/Scofield/Hagee shrine? The church(small c)of Christ, held that the church was the embodiment of all the promises made to Israel, and they had all been made complete in the church. The heresy of the dual-covenant theology wasn't in existence till Maimonides made it up. He looked back at the last 1400 years without a single prophet, judge, king or the Messiah that his contemporary Jews recognized as valid. He invented this system of 'two-peoples' of God to eventually subvert gullible Christians into believing such 'great' scholarship as comes from the guy who codified the Jewish Law(death).

      So yes, there is a grand apostasy invading the church, and I don't speak of the huge swaths of leftists that fall away into spiritualistic Unitarian crap. I speak of the betrayal of the historic positions of the church(small c)that has been consistently stated from Clement to Pius X, and Augustine to Calvin and beyond that those adherents to Judaism after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. are lost and need Christ just as much as any other person on this planet.

    • Looking4Sanity

      " many will corrupt the Word of God. "

      Are you kidding me?!? They corrupt ALL words! It will soon be impossible to have a meaningful conversation at all because of this. Now you know what it looks like when God says He will "give them over to strong delusion, that they might believe a lie".

      • Sola Scriptura

        "It will soon be impossible to have a meaningful conversation…"

        Although your zeal is commendable in one sense, you missed their Biblical context.

        Any doctrine claiming to be based on the Bible must be carefully checked against the Bible—an option open to anyone who knows God’s Word.

    • κατεργάζομαι

      George Babbit: That is a wonderful Straw Man suggesting that I esteem Hagee or, Darby. -Cite it.

      The early first century church was well-connected to its Jewish roots. Jesus did not intend for it to be any other way. After all, Jesus is Jewish, (as were Peter, Paul, and Matthew) and the basis of all His teaching is consistent with the Hebrew Scriptures.

      In Matthew 5:17-18 He states: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

      Your form of "Christian" anti-Semitism is currently flying under the banner of Replacement Theology, but it has infected the Church for nearly 1,900 years.

      • George_Babbitt

        The early first century was connected to it's Jewish roots because the Temple had not yet been destroyed by God's agents.

        • titus 3:5

          That Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE during the Siege of Jerusalem. It was the First Jewish-Roman War.

          The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av.

          The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome….and is a clear contrast to the Bible's Titus 3:5

          • George_Babbitt

            You deny the Lordship of Christ by using the calendar mark of 'CE' and then reference a letter of one of His Apostles. What is up with that?

          • titus 3:5

            Replying to George_Babbitt,
            – QUOTE:: "You deny the Lordship of Christ by using the calendar mark of 'CE' and then reference a letter of one of His Apostles. What is up with that? "

            CE is ALSO CHRISTIAN ERA.

            ~ YOU ENJOY CHOKING ON LATINIST GNATS…...
            ………..while ignoring the TRUE Biblical Gospel of salvation,

            Anno Domini is sometimes referred to as the Common Era, or, Christian Era, or Current Era (abbreviated as C.E. or CE).

          • George_Babbitt

            Tell me you used it in that manner, and you have my apology. But, I had never heard it used as an acronym for Christian Era. I had always seen it used by people that did not believe in Christ as an acronym for Common or Current Era.

            "~ YOU ENJOY CHOKING ON LATINIST GNATS……"

            Is that some derogatory statement against Roman Catholics? Or perhaps an accusation of legalism?

          • titus 3:5

            "Tell me you used it in that manner, and you have my apology."

            Tell me I did not.

            "
            "~ YOU ENJOY CHOKING ON LATINIST GNATS……" Is that some derogatory statement against Roman Catholics? Or perhaps an accusation of legalism? "

            I dunno. Obviously sound Biblical theology evades you.

            Use your ecumenical-decifer-code ring-thingie.

          • George_Babbitt

            I will not tell you that you did not. I don't presume to tell you your own mind like some on here. That's why I asked. If you had used the term "CE" to mean Common or Current Era, and then referenced the New Testament as a rebuke, you can see why I would say "What is up with that?"

            I get the gnat reference to Matt 23:24, but it's the 'Latinist' remark that really had me wondering at your meaning.

          • Titus 3:5

            Replying to George_Babbitt

            "You deny the Lordship of Christ by using the calendar mark of 'CE' and then reference a letter of one of His Apostles. What is up with that? "

            Man up. Cite it, senior.

            Jorge, if your frail Bible understanding is that weak,~ you waste my time.

  • R.C.

    JUST BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN–DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!

    A GENUINE CHRISTIAN IS NOT ABOUT MARXISM AND IS NOT ANTI ISRAEL!

    • George_Babbitt

      But a genuine Jew can be about Marxism? If Karl Marx(Jew) was alive today, he would still qualify for ḥok ha-shvūt, the Law of Return, wouldn't he?

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        If national socialist SHlTler were to reaffirm he was a Christian before he blew his brains out in his Berlin bunker in 1945, would he have been absolved of all his sins which resulted in the death of tens of million of people?

        • Looking4Sanity

          Possibly…but I certainly wouldn't bet my eternal destiny on it.

        • George_Babbitt

          Matthew 12:31 "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

          Mark 3:28 "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them."

          It's not for me to say what will be forgiven a man, yet the Word of God, through Jesus' own lips, speaks plain enough for anyone.

          • Looking4Sanity

            Hitler's suicide would be categorized as an unforgivable sin, since you can not repent of a sin you have not yet committed. His last earthly act was to commit murder against himself…and that out of cowardice. Trust me when I tell you he is burning in hell right now for that, if nothing else.

          • George_Babbitt

            We don't know for a fact that he committed suicide, and NOBODY cares!! Hitler is immaterial to the infinite grace of God.

          • Looking4Sanity

            So why are you discussing him?

      • Looking4Sanity

        You babble much. Would you care to define the term "genuine Jew" for us? You seem to be implying that Marx was one. I take issue with that.

        • George_Babbitt

          I carried over your usage of the word genuine. But as to your issue with Karl Marx being a Jew, there is no denying that:
          http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=17

          • Looking4Sanity

            I did not use the word "genuine". Get your head screwed on straight. You only think you're talking to your computer. I'm also not interested in your links. If you can't put it in your own words, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

            You're also trying to evade the question, which is nothing short of cowardly.

          • George_Babbitt

            SOooOOooo sorry :P It was R.C. who was throwing that word around in the original post when you jumped in. And as to the 'genuine Jew' bit, ḥok ha-shvūt, or the Law of Return is very liberal as to who qualifies and will bend over backward to assist no matter what you have done or what you believe. So, in this case the genuine Jew standard of ḥok ha-shvūt, or the Law of Return would welcome Karl Marx back with open arms if he were alive today, however unlikely he would ask.

          • Looking4Sanity

            So, instead of using theological or ethnic criteria, you are defining the term "Jew" by political criteria?!? Where is the moral imperative in that? Where does a political body get the authority to re-define a group that existed thousands of years before their conception? You are one screwed up individual.

            I understand you have to stoop to that level to justify your own bigotry, but you should be aware that people DO see through that and recognize you for what you are.

          • Luis522

            Looking4Sanity, never try to rationalize w/ one of Obama Claus's elves. Not worth it.

          • Looking4Sanity

            I'm just heaping the coals of truth on the vile heads of the corrupted. I don't expect anything from them other than a reaction to the pain that even a dumb animal is capable of displaying.

            Good to see you're still around, Luis. We've sailed off the edge of the map, my friend. "Here, there be dragons".

          • George_Babbitt

            Oh goody, a flat-earth, flat-head person reveals himself. Now we know why we're not getting anywhere.

          • Luis522

            It's not over yet! Remember, everybody gets bbeat down some time in our lives. But, it isn't DEFEAT unless we STAY down!

            And I'm STILL standing! ;)

            Obama Claus has NOTHING that I need — let alone want!

          • 4_Constitution

            Hey Luis! I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving and a Merry Christmas.

            I do not want any gifts from Baraka Clause either inlcuding Obamadeathrationing"care." And you know what I mean. Heck. I think Christians are going to be denied OC and I don't really care!!!

          • George_Babbitt

            They wont listen to Naturei Karta, who speaks the truth about the 'State of Israel', and the world lets the 'State of Israel' decide all things Jewish, alongside AIPAC and the ADL. And the 'State of Israel' declares, based on the ḥok ha-shvūt, or the Law of Return, that even Karl Marx would be welcome to qualify for ḥok ha-shvūt.

          • George_Babbitt

            As for the link, it's a Jewish made, Jewish friendly website with a bit o'comedy thrown in as to who is a Jew and who isn't amongst famous people across all occupations.

  • Domthelep

    You CAN'T be a Christian and be anti-Israel. It's a fact. So, please stop referring to these people as Christians.

    • George_Babbitt

      To be pro-Jew is to crucify Christ every time it is said. Be pro-Christ, and enable everyone else to be pro-Christ as the Great Commission commanded, including Jews, for if Christ isn't good enough for the Jews today when it was good enough for the ones that became His apostles, disciples, and followers, then Christ is not good enough for anyone and it's all a lie, and He was not the Messiah, which is the conclusion that enabling Jews will get you.

      • FPF

        There is no more crucifixion necessary after Jesus said "It is done" when He died on Cross for you and me because He did it once and for all. We are not pro-anyone, believers have real relationship with Jesus Christ and it is based on His love and grace. It is not that whether Christ is good for someone or not, it is that no one is good to deserve His grace but He did it anyway. Jesus Himself said the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven and Jews persecuted Him because they think Jesus' calling God His Father was blasphemy. The resurrection of Jesus after three days and the witnesses' account of His ascending to Heaven is enough proof that He is the Messiah.

        • George_Babbitt

          Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

          The Geneva bible notes on this state " As men that hate Christ, and as though they crucified him again, making a mockery of him to all the world, to their own destruction, as Julian the Apostate or backslider did."

          You said "The resurrection of Jesus after three days and the witnesses' account of His ascending to Heaven is enough proof that He is the Messiah. " This is true, and yet 1 Cor 1:20-25 "Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

          So tell them that, and enjoin our fellow believers to do the same.

          • mlcblog

            It appears you have it a bit twisted. Are you really still blaming and hating the Jews for Jesus' death? How shallow if so.

          • George_Babbitt

            Are you still supporting their arrogance and bitterness that some of them didn't accept Christ and that some of them still haven't? How sad if so.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Babbling Babbit,

            Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Bahais, Zoroastrians, Shintos don't "accept" Christ.

            With the Internet, you have no excuse to be so ignorant.

          • George_Babbitt

            But nothing that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Bahais, Zoroastrians and Shintos could ever say could stand a fart's chance in a hurricane of corrupting the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

            Jews attempting to 'clarify'(revise) what the old testament meant following the ministry of Christ Jesus to 'aid' Christian scholars who don't know better who they should not listen to then those that Christ corrected many times in the Expounding of the Law, have misplaced credibility to help them.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Bahais, Zoroastrians and Shintos don't follow Christ.

            And neither do the FAKE socialist "Christians".

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Babbling Babbit, You have to work in your second paragraph. I can't make out what you are trying to say.

            Are you trying to say that if Jews don't accept Christ, why should anyone else?

          • George_Babbitt

            The statement was meant to convey that Christian Zionism and the dual-covenant theology it subscribes to discredits the Gospel message, and takes away from the universal need for Christ.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            The FAKE "christians" who demonize Jews, killed Jews and demonize Israel discredit the Gospel.

          • Parenthetical Phrase

            Oy gevalt! This sounds like another "You're foolish and going to hell if you don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah and whatever bad stuff happens to you, you deserve." Quit quoting the New Testament and just give your opinion. If you believe the Jews are being punished 'cause they're not Christians, well then have the courage to come out and say it and stop hiding behind New Testament verses and acting like some holier than thou hypocrite.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        To be anti-Jew is to crucify Christ.

        I wonder why socialists and atheists support and defend Islamism? Is it because they all hate Western Civilization? Self-Loathing?

        • George_Babbitt

          Those who put Jew ahead of God were the first to crucify Christ.

    • Parenthetical Phrase

      Please stop. Everytime a Christian expresses an anti-Israel attitude or anti-Semitism, Christians who disagree with him say, "He's not a Christian." Yes he is. If a Jew is a Jew no matter how outrageous his words or behavior, then the same rule applies to Christians.

      • George_Babbitt

        Thanks for saying this, it needs to be said more. Those who are true should not attempt to distance themselves from those who do wrong and claim the same faith. They should continue as they feel their conscience directs them and not feel the shame of another's actions.

  • RevolveNews

    Those are false Christians. True believers in Messiah Jesus cannot be anti-Israel.

    Those Reputation Scores are something new. It makes me feel rather uncomfortable that my score is so low. I must not belong here.

    I just feel so crushed that Obama won the election. I know that my Savior is real because he kept me from jumping off of the bridge yesterday! I guess I've said enough.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      The US is in BIG TROUBLE.

      But I expect the false messiah obama will screw up and just as the American people became tired of the Republicans in 2008, 2016 will usher in a Republican president.

      The pendulum swings both ways.

      • George_Babbitt

        Yeah, good job nominating a cultist for the GOP ticket this time around. What was the justification again? Oh, right, the economic/financial situation. Reminds me of the verse "For the love of money is the root of all evil" among many others that declare that love of money over truth will cause you to betray your true master. BTW, I voted for Ron Paul.

        • George_Babbitt

          Oh goodness, a Messianic Jew. Why people thought this was a good idea considering the death and resurrection of Christ, I will never know…You can not become a new creation until the old has died and been put off. You can not put new wine into old wineskins, for they will burst. You can not live under the Law and under Grace.

          • RevolveNews

            I am not Jewish, although I study with Messianic Jews. People know who true Christians are by their love. Billy Graham is very popular with Christians of varying faiths as well as many unbelievers, because he is a loving and wise man. Why don't you open his website and study his teachings for awhile. Give up your prejudice against the Jewish people; G-d does not like it.

          • George_Babbitt

            Don't bring Billy Graham into this, he just gave his blessing* to a Mormon. I don't have a prejudice for the Jewish people, I got nothing against people or any person. I have a beef with Judaism. It is what eats away at credibility of the Gospel of Christ every time a Christian declares that Christ is not sufficient for the Jews today, even though He was for all the Jews that became His Apostles, disciples and followers.

          • Mary Sue

            so, tell me. Is it WRONG to vote for a Mormon?

          • George_Babbitt

            If you are a Christian? Absolutely. Just as wrong to vote for a Jew or a Muslim.

          • RevolveNews

            Look up the No Religious Test Clause of the US Constitution; Article VI, paragraph 3.

          • George_Babbitt

            That is a directive for the operating procedure of the government, there is nothing that infringes on a persons liberty to vote their conscience.

          • RevolveNews

            So why are you telling Mary Sue how to vote?

            Most of our courthouses used to have the Ten Commandments posted, before the atheists had a field day in collusion with liberal judges. Why is it wrong to vote for a Jewish person? We have a secular government. Why is it wrong to vote for an America-loving Muslim?

            You seem to be a bigot.

          • RevolveNews

            If it wasn't for Judaism, we would not have Christianity and a Jewish Messiah.

          • George_Babbitt

            If it wasn't for God!, we wouldn't have a Messiah who was sent for the whole world. Good grief, to say that we should be thankful to man for something, when it is God who provides all and all thanks, honor, glory and praise are owed to Him alone! What you just did was similarto what Moses and Aaron did with bringing water forth from the rock and why they were denied entrance into the promised land.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Which cult? Socialism? Islamism?

          You voted for MORON PAUL??? I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!

          • George_Babbitt

            Mormonism is a cult, Romney is a Mormon, therefore the GOP establishment who had been crying about there not being a Christian in the White House for the last four years, up and nominated another NON-Christian to go to the White House?!?!!?!?

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Babbling Babbit is a disciple of MORON PAUL?

          Who would have guessed?

          • George_Babbitt

            Please don't be any more rude than you have been.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            MORON Paul is not worthy of respect – based on his statements.

          • Looking4Sanity

            Shocking, ain't it?

        • Looking4Sanity

          There is an old saying…It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

          So, tell me…when is President Paul going to fix all our problems?

          You got the government you deserve. Live with it. Everyone else has to.

          • George_Babbitt

            My mentioning that I voted for Ron Paul is merely so some extremists on here don't make the grand assumption that I voted for Obama.
            http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/11/divided-gop-r

          • Looking4Sanity

            A vote for Paul WAS a vote for Obama. It's a pity that you aren't intelligent enough to comprehend that…especially in light of the incontrovertable evidence right under your own insipid nose.

          • George_Babbitt

            From the article you obviously didn't read:
            "Consider that most of the people, if not all, who voted for Mitt Romney would have voted for whomever the GOP nominated. No matter what. Anyone but Obama, remember? These people voted pragmatically… er, not so pragmatically now that all is said and done. So most of the people, if not all, who voted for Romney would have voted for the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man if he had been on the ballot with an “R” next to his name. So they really don’t matter in the end. Despite all of the media drivel about electability, any Republican candidate would have gained at least the number of votes that Romney did. But I believe a few of the primary candidates could have gained more. The Republican Party was trying to get some extra votes from the middle, so they chose a big-government-lite candidate with largely liberal social policies that could appeal to “moderate” voters. Wrong plan of action. Moderate voters swung to Obama anyway. All the Republican Party did by putting all its eggs into the middle-of-the-road candidate was jettison the swing voters they should have been appealing to instead: the conservative idealists."

            Also from the article:

            (Oh, if only we had fewer Americans with unshakeable convictions. They’re such a plague on this country. Yeah. Whatevuh.)

          • Looking4Sanity

            You certainly are an obtuse little person. I'm not discussing the article at all. I'm addressing your idiotic declaration of support for a loon and a loser as embodied by Ron Paul. Get over yourself and get a clue.

          • George_Babbitt

            What exactly is it that is marks him with loser status exactly? Is it his steadfast, consistent, principled record in congress where he has never flip-flopped on issues? Is it his courageous position to audit the Federal Reserve Bank, so that we know where all these trillions of dollars are being handed out to with no oversight and no transparency? Is it his reasonable approach to foreign aid/wars where he has always made it clear that enough is enough, we are not 'World Cop'? Is it his resolute dedication to the U.S. Constitution and liberty for all of the citizens in this country? Is it just because the GOP establishment 'announced' that he was unelectable, and people like you toed the line like the good little doggie and voted for a cultist who thinks he will be God one day and have his own planet to rule over with millions of wives to have babies with? That there were at least four other people in the GOP primaries who were better suited to go up against Obama? That there were less hypocritical GOP primary candidates who didn't look like Obama on paper until they started running for the Presidency? That whoever the GOP masters would have picked would have gotten at least as many votes as Romney, plus the all the votes from people who didn't sacrifice their principles on the altar of 'anybody but Obama'? That the GOP won control of the U.S. House of Representatives because of the Tea Party and the Liberty movements, and then the GOP establishment abandoned them when they thought it wise to run to the middle to beat a Leftist Incumbent President? You asked me to put these thoughts in my own words, here they are. Try to use reason, and consideration with your whole brain to respond with more than calling me a 'moron Paulbot'.

          • Looking4Sanity

            You make this far too easy.

            "What exactly is it that is marks him with loser status exactly? "

            The fact that HE LOST! That is THE defining characteristic of a loser.

            "Is it his courageous position to audit the Federal Reserve Bank, so that we know where all these trillions of dollars are being handed out to with no oversight and no transparency?"

            There are two things wrong with this line of thinking.

            1.) Since the Fed has NOT been audited, he is a failure and a gasbag.
            2.) You're arguing for MORE REGULATION, which means MORE GOVERNMENT! That makes both you AND him hypocrites!

            "Is it his resolute dedication to the U.S. Constitution and liberty for all of the citizens in this country?"

            Hardly. For 24 years he has made a career out of supporting theft of wealth from the American society and taking the spoils of that theft to redistribute to his constituents in exchange for their votes. Honorable? Don't make me laugh!

            You're delusional if you actually believe that RP would have pulled the votes that Romney did. He would have run off more votes than Barry Goldwater!

            I didn't call you a moron Paulbot. It's good to know you self identify with that though. I think it is perfectly accurate now that you brought it up. The fact that you continue to babble about him long after the election has been decided is eloquent proof of it.

            There are none so blind as those who will not see…and you're blind as a rabid moon bat.

          • George_Babbitt

            Romney lost too! LOL, if that is the standard you wish to weigh against him> LOL That makes him a loser too, but on a much larger scale!

            Auditing the Fed is the first step to getting rid of it. People need to see the corruption ever present in it, so that it can be abolished, not watched with more government as it does the evil things that it does.

            Anybody would have pulled in as many votes as Rmoney did. Half of America didn't care who was in the White House, as long as it WASN'T Obama. Which is how we ended up with the Rmoney in the first place, people existing outside of rational thought, with only a care for their pocket books, voted for their love of money, gave us Rmoney. Unprincipled dogs all of you.

      • RevolveNews

        Yes, we are in BIG TROUBLE! The false messiah Obama may completely change the constitution into something we no longer recognize. It may be too late by 2016 for ANYONE (except G-d) to fix the damage. Perhaps we are stuck with Obama until the nation collapses. Then we can have another American Revolution and restore sanity, values, dignity, just laws, and Declaration principles to our country again.

        • George_Babbitt

          You definitely weren't going to get it with the cultist Romney, his fellow Mormons believe in the words of Joseph Smith who ran on the THEOCRATIC presidential ticket to turn this country into a Mormon theocracy. What kind of unAmerican nonsense is that to send to the White House?!!??

          • RevolveNews

            According to the Constitution, there isn't supposed to be a religious test for presidential candidates.

          • George_Babbitt

            You are correct that the government can't restrict based on religion who can run for office. But, personal liberty can't be restricted to say who a person can or can't vote for based on their own conscience.

    • Looking4Sanity

      The scores aren't new. They're just new to you. You'll be fine. Everyone starts off at zero. You'll be in triple digits before you know it.

      • RevolveNews

        Thanks. I do not comment that often; this is the first time I have seen such a thing.

    • Sola Scriptura

      RevolveNews: "Those are false Christians."

      ~ Says WHOM? DO recall the thief on the Cross?

      - HOW did the Thief on The CROSS score with your personal theology?

      - A very discouraging and destructive trend has been growing in the body of Christ.

      • George_Babbitt

        Amen.

      • RevolveNews

        The "thief on the cross" was not a terrorist who killed innocent people. He recognized that Yeshua (Jesus) was the Messiah and had done nothing wrong; he feared God. The other criminal hurled insults at the Messiah.

        The false Christians side with terrorists that hate Jews, as well as Christians. Israel is the apple of God's eye. According to His words in the Bible, the Lord against those who would divide His land (Israel). Israel belonged to the Jewish people 3,500 years ago, and that land belongs the the Jewish people today; confirming biblical prophesy.

        • George_Babbitt

          Jews were the apple of God's eye. That apple is rotten to the core now and will never find freshness through the Law, and they need Christ Jesus just as much as the next person.

        • George_Babbitt

          2 Corinthians 1:20 "For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God."

  • RevolveNews

    Just one more comment.

    I recently found out that my direct ancestor was a Protestant martyr in Tudor England. She was the only woman to be tortured in the Tower of London, and was burned at the stake in 1546. What fascinates me is that many of my Mom's relatives are Protestant ministers! I am Non-denominational and study the Complete Jewish Bible.

    I also found out that my ancestors started immigrating here in 1620, around the time of the Mayflower. Several of my direct ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. If they were alive today, they definitely would not like what is happening to our wonderful country. I am just devastated.

    • George_Babbitt

      Those relatives of yours also would be befuddled by the enabling of Jews and the support for some place called the 'State of Israel'. My family name is Fuller, you'll find my ancestor's name on the Mayflower Compact. The Puritan/Pilgrims relied on the Geneva Bible, the best bible still today. They knew who Israel is, and what the Jews were. All you have to is ask the reformation leaders to get that truth, which was a pared down version of what the historical church before them made up of eastern and western orthodox Christians knew to be true. Israel is the church(small c). All promises made to the patriarchs are yes in Jesus Christ, and the old covenant is like dust, for the new covenant has come and replaced it entirely.

      • RevolveNews

        Let me also tell you that the Christian Church has not replaced Israel. That is false doctrine.

        • George_Babbitt

          Tell it to someone who has not forgotten the historical church positions that had primacy in every Christians mind prior to the Darby/Scofield heresies that adopted the Maimonedes position of the greatest false doctrine that has slowly seduced and corrupted the church ever since it was invented by him, that of the dual-covenant theology. There has always been but ONE people of God, and there still is ONLY one today, and they are found only in Christ.

          • RevolveNews

            My source of the knowledge of G-d comes directly from the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

            “For He Himself is our peace, who has made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation … to create in Himself one new man … in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit” (Ephesians 2:14-15,22).

          • George_Babbitt

            Galatians 3:28 "there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female, for all ye are one in Christ Jesus;"

            Nuff said.

          • RevolveNews

            Galatians 3:26-29

            26 For in union with the Messiah, you are all children of God through this trusting faithfulness; 27 because as many of you as were immersed into the Messiah have clothed yourselves with the Messiah, in whom 28 there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one. 29 Also, if you belong to the Messiah, you are seed of Avraham and heirs according to the promise.

          • George_Babbitt

            You just reinforce what I said by putting the whole though contained in that section of scripture with that particular translation—>"is neither Jew nor Gentile".

          • RevolveNews

            Read Romans 11; that will tell you all you need to know (unless your Geneva Bible has watered down the true meaning of Paul's teaching).

      • RevolveNews

        Replacement Theology is a false doctrine. The best versions of the Bible are derived directly from the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

        My Savior is Jewish. G-d's prophesies from the Old Covenant have been fulfilled and are continuing to be fulfilled. The reestablishment of Israel is a miracle–direct from scripture. The Lord's plans are being fulfilled right before your eyes, but you have closed your mind to the truth of ALL SCRIPTURE. The Old Covenant is alive with truth and very relevant. Don't you know that the Early Christians did not have a written New Covenant? They relied on Old Covenant scriptures. Sha'ul (Paul) continually references the Old Covenant throughout the Epistles. The whole Bible references itself, back and forth, old and new.

        Mattityahu (Matthew) 5:17-18

        "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. Yes Indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened."

  • mlcblog

    There is a world of difference between what some churches do and those of us who have a close relationship with Jesus (the Holy Spirit and God, courtesy of Jesus). Churches who oppose the true loving nature of God and his Truth are simply against God. I am sad to see the Presbyterians going down that road. I remember learning about how the NCC had infiltrated and corrupted the mainline churches in the 1950's and 1960's. Again, the work of evil forces, namely the left.

    • RevolveNews

      Yes, I recently had to stop attending a mainline church because someone betrayed my trust. I was shocked at how untrustworthy and unloving certain Christians can be. It's definitely not like the good old days when my mother was still alive. Many of the mainline churches have fallen away from the truth, as well as the Evangelicals.

      Dr. Kennedy's church in Ft. Lauderdale, FL is Presbyterian and is not apostate yet. They are wonderful Christians.

      • mlcblog

        I was on my 4th or 5th church fellowship when I finally understood. Like my Grandpa said, no he didn't. Who was that? People are no damn good. I did observe much human weakness, gossip (me, too) and checks bouncing, even among leadership, affairs!! in church? I was shocked.

        And…that is where I began to appreciate that I, too, had some weaknesses and that I was going to find this in any fellowship of people. Which made it all the more exciting to think that Jesus loves them/us.

        I think what I was trying to talk about, though, is the commie takeover of the mainline Christian churches which I have watched. They have no understanding nor do they seem to want to of the Lord. Their whole goal was power and the use of such a large body of people with a good reputation. It was a group takeover, engineered by the left. I watched it and it is well documented as history.

        This is different from the individuals who show up at church and are not yet "cleaned up," or the many who go there when they have dirt in their lives and they can assume a position which will make them look holy. Jesus talked about it all. Read the words in red. Forgiveness is the key to it all, and humility. We have to acknowledge our own imperfections.

        Glad you are happy at the church in Fla. It is one of the great ones. I would like you to never be betrayed but better yet to become equipped to handle it when it does happen among people. Please don't blame the whole church.

  • watsa46

    Religious fanaticism and leftism are 2 of the most toxic combinations of human disease.

    • RevolveNews

      Religious Leftism is ruining our country. There is a Religious Left and a Left that worships politics and/or politicians. How can Christians vote for politicians that are so evil. Yes, I said it — EVIL! Everything they stand for is against G-d.

      The Lord did say this would happen, in the scriptures. I don't know why I'm so surprised. Everything is unfolding very quickly. The Lord will help Israel, and all people who know the Savior. We can be assured of that. But a nation that forsakes G-d will be judged.

      • George_Babbitt

        And the Religious Right chose a cultist with a 19th century 'revelation' of 'Christ'(Smith).

  • Idylewylde

    Speaking as a former Presbyterian, the clique that took over the Presbyterian Church is not Christian in the Biblical sense. They've expunged the original Book of Order that defines Presbyterianism. They are no longer even Presbyterian. They are now on a Jihad against Israel.
    Why is anyone surprised?
    The Book of Revelations tells us of the Whore of Babylon .. that's who these so-called Liberal Christians are.
    Liberal Christians are infiltrating every denomination. They all have three things in common:

    1.) They view the Christian Eucharist, along with the Jewish Sacraments, as purely symbolic.
    2.) Heaven, Hell, and Sin are only symbolic.
    3.) They all exhibit Anti-Semitic political policies under the guise of inter-faith cooperation .. which is the Mother of all Contradictions in the entire history of Judaism and Judo-Christianity.

    In short, these guys are all closet Nazis leading their idiot congregations merrily to the next Holocaust.

  • Sola

    There is ONE truth.

    • George_Babbitt

      Jesus is Lord.^

  • shariaunveiled

    Oh Ye' leuke-warm hypocrites of the "Christian Church"… Our Lord Thy God doth spit you from His mouth and beyond the gates of Hell's Fury. As you speak against Y'israel… Our Lord Thy God Shall speak against you. As you turn your back on Y'israel… Our Lord Thy God shall turn His back on you. Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ) was, is and shall always be… a Jewish Rabbi. All of His followers on earth… were Jews of Y'israel… and the One Lord Thy God never converted anyone to "Christianity"… He only converted the people to Judaism. Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai <>< s/m @ sharia unveiled. http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/

  • George_Babbitt

    Christ told us "They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."" because He replaced all of the old ways with His Kingdom; the High Priesthood is now held by Jesus for all time now; the Temple is found in the heart of every believer; The Red Heifer was replaced by the one-time pure sacrifice of Jesus on the cross; He now resides in the true Tabernacle built by God, and not by man; the priesthood of all believers now serves where the Levitical once did.

    Paul told us that the old covenant is obsolete. Peter told us that God does not play favorites.

    Why would we ever return to the Law? It would be like saying that Christ is not eternal, and what He did was not eternally redemptive. All the promises to Israel have been fulfilled in Christ. There is nothing left for Jews except to come to Christ on equal footing with all the rest of mankind. The Jews broke His covenant(Jeremiah 31, reiterated in Hebrews 8). God is eternal, and His promises are as well, and they have been realized in those who believe in Christ.

    2 Corinthians 1:20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

    • RevolveNews

      Galatians 3:10-14

      10 For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” [DEUTERONOMY 27:26] 11 Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” [HABAKKUK 2:4] 12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.” [LEVITICUS 18:5] 13 The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.” [DEUTERONOMY 21:22–23] 14 Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the Spirit.

      Babbitt, do you see how Paul referenced the Old Covenant several times?

      • George_Babbitt

        Yes I do see how Paul reference the 'OLD' covenant several times, doesn't make it any less OLD. I don't say that to denigrate the old covenant, God has said enough in regards to what He feels about it based on the fact that we have a NEW covenant now through Christ Jesus, and only through Him.

    • shariaunveiled

      re: G. Babbitt. If my interpretation of what you are saying is correct, it sounds a lot like "replacement theology." I hope my inferrence of your message is incorrect… because, replacement theology is pure unadulterated garbage. Israel shall never be replaced. The covenant between the One Lord Thy God with His People… the Israelites, can never be replaced either. God's Law was, is and shall always be..the Law. He is the same… yesterday, today and tomorrow. So to, is His Law. Man changes… God does not. You speak of "Jesus" and "God" as if "they" are more than one…. There is only One Lord Thy God. Never Forget… the Judeo-Christian is 'grafted in." Grafted into what…??

      • George_Babbitt

        I prefer the term Supersessionism, but probably close enough for most. You have a knee-jerk response to call it garbage because you have a vested interest in it not being garbage, just like the pharisee and Sadducee. Christ has made Israel complete by His power, and therefore God has not replaced Israel, it has come of age, but in Christ alone. Of course the Law is still there, I never said the Law wasn't there, I said the old covenant is dead, broken, obsolete and has disappeared. The Law is there to show the whole world that they need Christ, for He is the only one who was ever perfectly unblemished according to the Law. And to answer your final question, The 'Jew and Gentile'(that are no more in Christ)are grafted into what, you ask? Into Christ the vine of course. Jews were a branch on the vine, not the vine itself. They can also be restored to the vine, but they must recognize and accept what and who the reborn vine is.

  • shariaunveiled

    The title of this article is inaccurate because there is a word missing; The title should read as follows:
    Anti-Israel "Fake" Christians Stir Further Controversy (or) "False" Christians (or) 'Anti"-Christians but, they are most definitely NOT "True" Christians! No Christian could deny Israel,no more than they could deny Christ, Himself. Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ) is an Y'israelite and is of the blood-lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob is Y'Israel! In the form of a nation, from the Heart and Breath of HaShem and the flesh of a man named Jacob… rose the Nation of Y'israel. To deny Y'israel is to deny Our Lord Thy God, Himself. These denominations should be given one opportunity to repent and refrain from their evil ways. If they refuse, these "false-Christian" denominations should be immediately cast-out from the Judeo-Christian Faith. 'Lest they bring down the entire Faith. <>< s/m @ sharia unveiled. The Truth Is Always Spoken Here: http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/

    • RevolveNews

      I AGREE! The Anti-Israel "Fake" Christians are pawns of ha-Satan.

      • George_Babbitt

        Christ Jesus said who those that WOULD NOT believe are with His own lips in John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

        Saying what Christ said means that someone is a pawn of Satan. You got it all backwards there.

        • RevolveNews

          REVELATION 12:10-12

          Accuser of the Brethren

          10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

          New King James Version

  • George_Babbitt

    Christian Zionist's problem is that they have been snookered into believing that Christ’s fulfillment of the Mosaic Covenant is insufficient for the Jewish people. So, rather than grasping the spiritual reality that believers in Christ are collectively, as St. Paul put it, the “New Israel of God" they see only the carnal reality (the presence of a state called Israel) and imagines that, somehow or another, this is evidence of a dualistic meaning behind Old Testament references to “Israel”. Such dualism existed for a time, of course, as Christ tried so hard to explain to the Pharisees, but the whole matter was conflated in Christ at the Cross. There is no covenant available to those Jews who refuse to accept Christ as their King. Purely and Simply. That’s not anti-semitic. That’s the Truth. And it is a truth which cost Stephen his life (Acts, Ch. 7). It’s a shame that Christians under the influence of Zionistic wicked idolatry of Israel (the modern state of) care more for Christ-hating Jews than they do for Stephen (the first martyr for our faith)….This is the “crux” of the matter.

    We are to love Christ above all else. In Christ, we are the family of God. In Christ, we are the Israel of God. In Christ we are, as St. Peter put it (while quoting the Old Testament verbatim): “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own…” (1 Peter 2:9). What Christian Zionists need to do is spend less time raising (making) money lauding the Jewish state, and spend more time reading the New Covenant/Testament. Otherwise, their rhetoric is leading souls straight to hell.

  • George_Babbitt

    During this century, Christians have been told over and over again that "God has an unconditional love for Old testament Israel," by which is meant that God's love is directed toward persons racially descended from Abraham, regardless of faith or obedience. Membership in Israel, therefore, is viewed as a matter of race, not faith.

    The Church is Israel Now demonstrates that the Bible totally repudiates this racialist viewpoint. Being a member of Israel in the Old testament was dependent upon faith and obedience to God. When the Israelites obeyed God, God loved them. But when they turned from Him, He hated them, stripping them of their Israelite status. After centuries of Israelite rebellion against God, culminating in their rejection of Jesus the Messiah, the titles, attributes and blessings of Israel were transferred to all those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and to no one else, regardless of Abrahamic descent. The Church is Israel now.
    http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.g

  • George_Babbitt

    The State of Israel should be left to its own devices and defense in its acts of domestic terrorism and apartheid. I will not support it merely for the eschatological, politically motivated and Judaicly confused reasons that some of my brethren do on the world stage at the behest of AIPAC and the Tim Lahaye/John Hagee group.

    A Jew is not a self-hater because he has read the Talmud and sees that his own Rabbis from antiquity agree that there should not be a State/Nation/Kingdom of Israel till the Messiah returns, which Jews do not believe(wrongly), has happened. The Talmud, from the start of the Jewish Diaspora has accepted their exile, as a condemnation of a wicked people that must wait for His time, not the time of the British/French Palestinian Mandate which scooped up land at the fall of the Ottoman empire.

    These people that attempt to force God to bring about the Second Coming by putting into action those things that they think need to happen for the Second Coming are arrogantly and defiantly attempting to put themselves on the Throne in His stead.

  • 4_Constitution

    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. ~Genesis 12:1.

    If you look at our country and the immorality and the debt we have and couple that with weak churches that preach a false Gospel, I don't feel that we have God's blessing anymore.

    • RevolveNews

      Yes, I think you are right. The Lord is not pleased with the direction our nation it taking. It seems that our most dreadful enemies are within our government AND our apostate churches.

      The situation is dire, but not hopeless.

      2 Chronicles 7:14

      14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

      New King James Version

  • WMJ

    This is a very sad thread. Simple people tend to belive that every problem has a simple solution, and that is not the case here. You absolutely can be Christian and oppose the current Israeli position. If you think otherwise, why don't you go ask the Palestinian Christians (and there are many) what they think of Israel.

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  • neon

    Great!

    kjoler