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	<title>Comments on: This Is What Islamic Supremacism Looks Like</title>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3643675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3643675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, how many Muslims have we had historically based on any published source? Let&#039;s stipulate that only female Muslims have been oppressed by Islam. How many is that? 
 
Now people who kill others (oops, do victims of Islam count too?) and die doing it might be considered to have been oppressed, if they did so based on being lied to. How many would YOU guess that to be, even using the lowest possible numbers? 
 
I&#039;ll revise my estimate based on any reasonable new information. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, how many Muslims have we had historically based on any published source? Let&#039;s stipulate that only female Muslims have been oppressed by Islam. How many is that? </p>
<p>Now people who kill others (oops, do victims of Islam count too?) and die doing it might be considered to have been oppressed, if they did so based on being lied to. How many would YOU guess that to be, even using the lowest possible numbers? </p>
<p>I&#039;ll revise my estimate based on any reasonable new information. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3643661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3643661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;&quot;I can quote you agreeing that I can &#039;debunk it&#039; but disagreeing about &#039;destroying&#039; it (an ideology should not be destroyed when it is savage and objectively false?) &quot; 
 
&quot;Yes you may. But not the part in the parenthesis. You have not established that you solely wish to destroy the ideology using rational discourse. You are certainly entitled to attack it with mental scalpels and beep hammers, but if you want to harass and intimidate the public with loud signs and fund the English Defense League, and accuse Huma Abedin and Anderson Cooper of being members of the MB, your Logical Positivist rhetoric and Objectivism aren&#039;t going to excuse your Jihadism.&quot; 
 
You&#039;re conflating again. What I do is independent of what others do. I am not so sure the EDL is evil either. But then again, I have little interest for now.  
 
I&#039;d say that based on my superficial knowledge about the Geller Spencer gang that they need a strong and wise leader to help them clean up their image. What I did observe directly is that they use unwise language that can be easily distorted by their enemies. This is foolish. It doesn&#039;t make them racist. It might make them bigoted had they not already established the research behind their opinions. They need to avoid excessively hateful rhetoric because taken out of context, it can make them look like hate is their motive rather than the rational outcome of their moral outrage. 
 
Other than that, I think your analysis is inaccurate due to an incomplete understanding of Islam today and historically. This is more evidence in support of my opinions. This doesn&#039;t make you below average in any sense, you just don&#039;t have the information you need to judge yet. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&quot;I can quote you agreeing that I can &#039;debunk it&#039; but disagreeing about &#039;destroying&#039; it (an ideology should not be destroyed when it is savage and objectively false?) &quot; </p>
<p>&quot;Yes you may. But not the part in the parenthesis. You have not established that you solely wish to destroy the ideology using rational discourse. You are certainly entitled to attack it with mental scalpels and beep hammers, but if you want to harass and intimidate the public with loud signs and fund the English Defense League, and accuse Huma Abedin and Anderson Cooper of being members of the MB, your Logical Positivist rhetoric and Objectivism aren&#039;t going to excuse your Jihadism.&quot; </p>
<p>You&#039;re conflating again. What I do is independent of what others do. I am not so sure the EDL is evil either. But then again, I have little interest for now.  </p>
<p>I&#039;d say that based on my superficial knowledge about the Geller Spencer gang that they need a strong and wise leader to help them clean up their image. What I did observe directly is that they use unwise language that can be easily distorted by their enemies. This is foolish. It doesn&#039;t make them racist. It might make them bigoted had they not already established the research behind their opinions. They need to avoid excessively hateful rhetoric because taken out of context, it can make them look like hate is their motive rather than the rational outcome of their moral outrage. </p>
<p>Other than that, I think your analysis is inaccurate due to an incomplete understanding of Islam today and historically. This is more evidence in support of my opinions. This doesn&#039;t make you below average in any sense, you just don&#039;t have the information you need to judge yet. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3643642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3643642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I don&#039;t think Geller can be described as naive for pushing drug dealers and gang members into expensive car loans. One wouldn&#039;t use the word &quot;naive&quot; to describe that. One would use the expression &quot;racketeer.&quot; 
 
 
I think you&#039;re reading a lot in between the lines. Was she among those arrested? What are the charges? 
 
As far as loans and discernment, referring to her as naive was a regarding the implications of the loans to the borrower, not the borrower&#039;s alleged status in society. 
 
Are drug dealers supposed to be punished by peers by denying them trade? I&#039;m not sure where you&#039;re going. It seems like a smear with little evidence or even substance.  
 
I understand you have a creepy feeling about her. So do I. I really don&#039;t see the value in more focus on her. Maybe if she becomes more important to the movement, I&#039;ll need to revisit the allegations, but I&#039;m skeptical about that need for the moment. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;I don&#039;t think Geller can be described as naive for pushing drug dealers and gang members into expensive car loans. One wouldn&#039;t use the word &quot;naive&quot; to describe that. One would use the expression &quot;racketeer.&quot; </p>
<p>I think you&#039;re reading a lot in between the lines. Was she among those arrested? What are the charges? </p>
<p>As far as loans and discernment, referring to her as naive was a regarding the implications of the loans to the borrower, not the borrower&#039;s alleged status in society. </p>
<p>Are drug dealers supposed to be punished by peers by denying them trade? I&#039;m not sure where you&#039;re going. It seems like a smear with little evidence or even substance.  </p>
<p>I understand you have a creepy feeling about her. So do I. I really don&#039;t see the value in more focus on her. Maybe if she becomes more important to the movement, I&#039;ll need to revisit the allegations, but I&#039;m skeptical about that need for the moment. </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3641769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3641769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I look forward to the book showing that Jews are morally superior to Muslims. It should go over well.  
  
I don&#039;t think Geller can be described as naive for pushing drug dealers and gang members into expensive car loans. One wouldn&#039;t use the word &quot;naive&quot; to describe that. One would use the expression &quot;racketeer.&quot; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to the book showing that Jews are morally superior to Muslims. It should go over well.  </p>
<p>I don&#039;t think Geller can be described as naive for pushing drug dealers and gang members into expensive car loans. One wouldn&#039;t use the word &quot;naive&quot; to describe that. One would use the expression &quot;racketeer.&quot; </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3640327</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 04:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3640327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I would be interested as to what you consider to be the specific unique qualities of Islam which qualify it for moral inferiority to other religions in such a way that they could be considered objective and not merely personal preferences.&quot; 
 
1) Islam is founded on specific lies that incite murder since its inception through today 
 
2) Islam forbids questioning its claims 
 
3) Islam demands striving for world domination, displacing all other religions and sovereings 
 
4) Hebrew theology has created a legacy of justice where significant effort is required to find the truth, pursue justice as a rational and reasonable process, etc.  
 
If you can&#039;t see the distinctions at this point, you&#039;re simply refusing to look. 
 
&quot;Regarding Geller, she was co-owner of Universal Auto World whose husband and whose co-administered clients were all &quot;savages&quot; by her ad campaign&#039;s definition&quot; 
 
Her ad implies Jihadis are savages. She served Jihadis? Maybe she was naive then? That argues against racism since she waited to know the facts.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;I would be interested as to what you consider to be the specific unique qualities of Islam which qualify it for moral inferiority to other religions in such a way that they could be considered objective and not merely personal preferences.&quot; </p>
<p>1) Islam is founded on specific lies that incite murder since its inception through today </p>
<p>2) Islam forbids questioning its claims </p>
<p>3) Islam demands striving for world domination, displacing all other religions and sovereings </p>
<p>4) Hebrew theology has created a legacy of justice where significant effort is required to find the truth, pursue justice as a rational and reasonable process, etc.  </p>
<p>If you can&#039;t see the distinctions at this point, you&#039;re simply refusing to look. </p>
<p>&quot;Regarding Geller, she was co-owner of Universal Auto World whose husband and whose co-administered clients were all &quot;savages&quot; by her ad campaign&#039;s definition&quot; </p>
<p>Her ad implies Jihadis are savages. She served Jihadis? Maybe she was naive then? That argues against racism since she waited to know the facts.  </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3640114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 03:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3640114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would be interested as to what you consider to be the specific unique qualities of Islam which qualify it for moral inferiority to other religions in such a way that they could be considered objective and not merely personal preferences.     
     
It seems to me that even if your evaluations are &lt;i&gt;somewhat&lt;/i&gt; objective, that means merely that Islam goes against your personal preference as an Objectivist. In short, I question the possibility of an objective condemnation of a religion that does not somehow condemn all religions and Islam in particular as simply an extreme case of religion at large. How do you do this without at least appealing to a Kantian moral imperative? 
 
Regarding Geller, she was co-owner of Universal Auto World whose husband and whose co-administered clients were all &quot;savages&quot; by her ad campaign&#039;s definition. 
 
This is a more colorful description of the scandal: 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/ny-post-18-people-busted-in-1-9m-auto-loan-scheme-in-queens-same-scam-was-run-at-universal-auto-world-l-i-linked-to-blogger-pamela-geller/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/ny-p...&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be interested as to what you consider to be the specific unique qualities of Islam which qualify it for moral inferiority to other religions in such a way that they could be considered objective and not merely personal preferences.     </p>
<p>It seems to me that even if your evaluations are <i>somewhat</i> objective, that means merely that Islam goes against your personal preference as an Objectivist. In short, I question the possibility of an objective condemnation of a religion that does not somehow condemn all religions and Islam in particular as simply an extreme case of religion at large. How do you do this without at least appealing to a Kantian moral imperative? </p>
<p>Regarding Geller, she was co-owner of Universal Auto World whose husband and whose co-administered clients were all &quot;savages&quot; by her ad campaign&#039;s definition. </p>
<p>This is a more colorful description of the scandal:<br />
  <a href="http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/ny-post-18-people-busted-in-1-9m-auto-loan-scheme-in-queens-same-scam-was-run-at-universal-auto-world-l-i-linked-to-blogger-pamela-geller/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/ny-p" rel="nofollow">http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/ny-p</a>&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3639779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 00:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3639779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I can appreciate that you don&#039;t want to follow a character analysis of Pamela Geller from when she was in her best dyed hair and fake nails trying to talk black guys into overextending themselves on car loans which her husband then dishonestly underwrote. So we can just not address whether she is a serial con artist. &quot; 
 
Not without establishing relevance and showing evidence. One, we don&#039;t know if its true, and two, we don&#039;t know if she reformed herself. I see this as an attempt to pile on to accusations against her based on little to no evidence. 
 
I repeat: she&#039;s not diplomatic enough, and this compromises her effectiveness. This is not a personal judgment because I understand her moral outrage. I think she tunes her rhetoric to others who already share her moral outrage. Maybe this accomplishes something, I can&#039;t say. What I object to is that her image taints the image of those who try to educate those who truly don&#039;t know all of the facts. 
 
&quot;It is not futile to show the equivalence of counter-Jihadist furqan and Islamist furqan. It is not futile to show the equivalence between Jewish ta&#039;assub and Islamic ta&#039;assub. That word means &quot;tribalist fanaticism,&quot; by the way. It is not futile to show it, it is merely something that makes the Hasbarist automatically condemn the statement on the basis that Jews are morally superior to non-Jews.&quot; 
 
My belief is that without knowing how Islam is morally inferior, one might misunderstand their arguments. Ever consider that? Obviously the case must be made and there should be no expectation that anyone can just declare another person or group morally inferior. With Islam, it is not at all difficult to make the case.  
 
I never said for example that the Native Americans (AKA &quot;Indians&quot;) were morally inferior to Europeans. They lost because they were not sophisticated enough to secure borders and property. We can&#039;t judge them personally or even collectively beyond what the facts show. They were unsuitable as sovereigns under modern circumstances. That is all you can say. 
 
Islam on the other hand is morally inferior because it is based on lies that are proven to foment violence, murder and oppression wherever you allow it to take root. We can use history for evidence and compare history to its theology to traces causes and effects. 
 
Hebrew theology and its ancestors strive for due process, rights of the individual, offering forgiveness, benefit of the doubt, etc. It&#039;s easy to make the case of moral superiority in relationship with Islam. 
 
Is Hebrew theology morally superior to all others? That case is harder to make and should not be accepted as a given. Given the wide influence of Hebrew theology upon secular society, it&#039;s foolish to make angry aggressive assertions to those who disagree on the premise of Hebrew moral superiority. It&#039;s largely theoretical to Europeans and Americans in most cases. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;I can appreciate that you don&#039;t want to follow a character analysis of Pamela Geller from when she was in her best dyed hair and fake nails trying to talk black guys into overextending themselves on car loans which her husband then dishonestly underwrote. So we can just not address whether she is a serial con artist. &quot; </p>
<p>Not without establishing relevance and showing evidence. One, we don&#039;t know if its true, and two, we don&#039;t know if she reformed herself. I see this as an attempt to pile on to accusations against her based on little to no evidence. </p>
<p>I repeat: she&#039;s not diplomatic enough, and this compromises her effectiveness. This is not a personal judgment because I understand her moral outrage. I think she tunes her rhetoric to others who already share her moral outrage. Maybe this accomplishes something, I can&#039;t say. What I object to is that her image taints the image of those who try to educate those who truly don&#039;t know all of the facts. </p>
<p>&quot;It is not futile to show the equivalence of counter-Jihadist furqan and Islamist furqan. It is not futile to show the equivalence between Jewish ta&#039;assub and Islamic ta&#039;assub. That word means &quot;tribalist fanaticism,&quot; by the way. It is not futile to show it, it is merely something that makes the Hasbarist automatically condemn the statement on the basis that Jews are morally superior to non-Jews.&quot; </p>
<p>My belief is that without knowing how Islam is morally inferior, one might misunderstand their arguments. Ever consider that? Obviously the case must be made and there should be no expectation that anyone can just declare another person or group morally inferior. With Islam, it is not at all difficult to make the case.  </p>
<p>I never said for example that the Native Americans (AKA &quot;Indians&quot;) were morally inferior to Europeans. They lost because they were not sophisticated enough to secure borders and property. We can&#039;t judge them personally or even collectively beyond what the facts show. They were unsuitable as sovereigns under modern circumstances. That is all you can say. </p>
<p>Islam on the other hand is morally inferior because it is based on lies that are proven to foment violence, murder and oppression wherever you allow it to take root. We can use history for evidence and compare history to its theology to traces causes and effects. </p>
<p>Hebrew theology and its ancestors strive for due process, rights of the individual, offering forgiveness, benefit of the doubt, etc. It&#039;s easy to make the case of moral superiority in relationship with Islam. </p>
<p>Is Hebrew theology morally superior to all others? That case is harder to make and should not be accepted as a given. Given the wide influence of Hebrew theology upon secular society, it&#039;s foolish to make angry aggressive assertions to those who disagree on the premise of Hebrew moral superiority. It&#039;s largely theoretical to Europeans and Americans in most cases. </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3639030</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3639030</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Forgetting the Nakoula video entirely, anything that you produce that is more thought out than &lt;i&gt;2016 Obama&#039;s America&lt;/i&gt; is bound to be at least interesting. I agree with most of your last post. 
 
Your earlier use of the phrase &quot;Facts Matter&quot; and the general approval of the shared mission of anti-Islam, the LOLs and the eyerolls, the ever shifting rundown of appeals to ideas of collectivism, to feminism, to narcissism, to Islamism are what made me think I was talking to Geller.  
 
I did a preliminary look at Bernard Lewis, and have a book to pick up by him. I watched a few of his videos, and so far he seems like someone using the British Colonialist routine to sell a rehashed cultural chauvinist tract, archaeologizing Islam every four years. I will read one of his books though to confirm or negate that. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgetting the Nakoula video entirely, anything that you produce that is more thought out than <i>2016 Obama&#039;s America</i> is bound to be at least interesting. I agree with most of your last post. </p>
<p>Your earlier use of the phrase &quot;Facts Matter&quot; and the general approval of the shared mission of anti-Islam, the LOLs and the eyerolls, the ever shifting rundown of appeals to ideas of collectivism, to feminism, to narcissism, to Islamism are what made me think I was talking to Geller.  </p>
<p>I did a preliminary look at Bernard Lewis, and have a book to pick up by him. I watched a few of his videos, and so far he seems like someone using the British Colonialist routine to sell a rehashed cultural chauvinist tract, archaeologizing Islam every four years. I will read one of his books though to confirm or negate that. </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3638990</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3638990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are certainly more accepting of these people swan-diving off the limb of credibility than I am, probably because of the shared objectives and shared impetus, nevertheless, I can agree with this last post entirely. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are certainly more accepting of these people swan-diving off the limb of credibility than I am, probably because of the shared objectives and shared impetus, nevertheless, I can agree with this last post entirely. </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3638966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3638966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can appreciate that you don&#039;t want to follow a character analysis of Pamela Geller from when she was in her best dyed hair and fake nails trying to talk black guys into overextending themselves on car loans which her husband then dishonestly underwrote. So we can just not address whether she is a serial con artist. 
 
It is not &lt;i&gt;futile&lt;/i&gt; to show the equivalence of counter-Jihadist &lt;i&gt;furqan&lt;/i&gt; and Islamist &lt;i&gt;furqan&lt;/i&gt;. It is not futile to show the equivalence between Jewish &lt;i&gt;ta&#039;assub&lt;/i&gt; and Islamic &lt;i&gt;ta&#039;assub&lt;/i&gt;. That word means &quot;tribalist fanaticism,&quot; by the way. It is not futile to show it, it is merely something that makes the Hasbarist automatically condemn the statement on the basis that Jews are morally superior to non-Jews. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can appreciate that you don&#039;t want to follow a character analysis of Pamela Geller from when she was in her best dyed hair and fake nails trying to talk black guys into overextending themselves on car loans which her husband then dishonestly underwrote. So we can just not address whether she is a serial con artist. </p>
<p>It is not <i>futile</i> to show the equivalence of counter-Jihadist <i>furqan</i> and Islamist <i>furqan</i>. It is not futile to show the equivalence between Jewish <i>ta&#039;assub</i> and Islamic <i>ta&#039;assub</i>. That word means &quot;tribalist fanaticism,&quot; by the way. It is not futile to show it, it is merely something that makes the Hasbarist automatically condemn the statement on the basis that Jews are morally superior to non-Jews. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3636763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 05:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3636763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You didn&#039;t address the part about Ms. Geller&#039;s history of predatory lending through shucking and jiving. It slipped through.&quot; 
 
 
I don&#039;t know what you are referring to. I thought you were referring to alleged predatory home loans and I snipped your statement. If those are distinct accusations, I need an explanation before I can comment.  
 
OTOH, there&#039;s a lot of mudslinging and I&#039;ve already criticized her about what I have have observed directly. I care little about accusations of her past unless they have significant relevance and are supported by some evidence. Otherwise it seems really pointless. 
 
&quot;So it&#039;s counter-jihadist furqan. Another kind of Jihadism.&quot; 
 
It&#039;s counter Jihad and fighting lies with facts. If you want to call it jihad for your own personal reasons, that is fine. Most people wouldn&#039;t do that unless they were attempted a futile moral equivalence argument. We&#039;ve already agreed on distinctions between Islam and cultures that strive to purge lies, so I&#039;m not worried about that. 
 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;You didn&#039;t address the part about Ms. Geller&#039;s history of predatory lending through shucking and jiving. It slipped through.&quot; </p>
<p>I don&#039;t know what you are referring to. I thought you were referring to alleged predatory home loans and I snipped your statement. If those are distinct accusations, I need an explanation before I can comment.  </p>
<p>OTOH, there&#039;s a lot of mudslinging and I&#039;ve already criticized her about what I have have observed directly. I care little about accusations of her past unless they have significant relevance and are supported by some evidence. Otherwise it seems really pointless. </p>
<p>&quot;So it&#039;s counter-jihadist furqan. Another kind of Jihadism.&quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s counter Jihad and fighting lies with facts. If you want to call it jihad for your own personal reasons, that is fine. Most people wouldn&#039;t do that unless they were attempted a futile moral equivalence argument. We&#039;ve already agreed on distinctions between Islam and cultures that strive to purge lies, so I&#039;m not worried about that. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3636667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 05:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3636667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;As was the case with the Innocence of Muslims, that was cold and calculated but also not creative or profound. &quot; 
 
My artistic sensibilities were offended. This made me think in my gut that the producer or director wanted to provoke people...but then I realized just how campy so many films are. They might have been sincere, I don&#039;t know. What is truly offensive is the facts of history about Islam. If you are not aware of the facts, and you just think it&#039;s like any other religion, then you might find it hard to believe they could be so careless. Probably they knew the facts themselves are offensive, and if they got any feedback that their film was offensive, they chalked it up to that rather than their &quot;campy&quot; and &quot;disrespectful&quot; production values. I find it interesting how many lies were spread about it&#039;s funding and length because it is so clearly a film that is barely credible as a student project. It could be just an unfortunate combination of fed up persecuted Christians who have no artistic or writing talents and expected that no matter what they did. they would offend people just by approaching the taboo; facts about Mohammed. It&#039;s unfortunate on the one hand, and fortunate that relatively few people were killed and wounded in order to expose the attitudes of Islamic leaders and followers alike around US embassies and the UN chambers. It&#039;s all sad, but this sad story dates back to the 7th century AD. 
 
 
&quot;When you spoke initially, you came off as full Geller, complete with the &quot;Facts Matter&quot; that she likes to use when trolling other blogs. This post of yours appears to be a repudiation of Geller but not for the principles for which she allegedly stands. &quot; 
 
That may have been your impression, but I&#039;ve written enough to clearly speak for myself. I don&#039;t read her much so I can&#039;t say how much we have in common in terms of approach. From what I have seen though, I can&#039;t quite understand how you got that impression. You do seem to jump to conclusions and read a lot in between the lines of things. Again, this is common today and how students are taught to think. They are taught by teachers and professors who model this behavior. It&#039;s everywhere. 
 
&quot;At this point I would be interested again in how you act on your shared objectives outside of comment section discourse.&quot; 
 
I don&#039;t have a public face of &quot;Jihad fighter&quot; as they do. I don&#039;t see a productive way to do that, other than my project that is not ready for publication. 
 
The 2 things I do is direct help to Muslims and those, uh, under their influence in focusing on achieving goals that their imam&#039;s call worldly and &quot;western influence,&quot; like how to succeed in business etc. The second thing I have going is a huge collection of documentaries and history publications that I hope to use in creating a comprehensive distillation of the history one needs to know to decide for oneself how to deal with Islam. Facts do matter, and eventually the truth can bring people to peace rather than war. They have to sit around and tolerate the discourse long enough to find the common threads of truth and hence agreement and common cause.  
 
The one thing we agreed on is that lies are bad. That is a start. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;As was the case with the Innocence of Muslims, that was cold and calculated but also not creative or profound. &quot; </p>
<p>My artistic sensibilities were offended. This made me think in my gut that the producer or director wanted to provoke people&#8230;but then I realized just how campy so many films are. They might have been sincere, I don&#039;t know. What is truly offensive is the facts of history about Islam. If you are not aware of the facts, and you just think it&#039;s like any other religion, then you might find it hard to believe they could be so careless. Probably they knew the facts themselves are offensive, and if they got any feedback that their film was offensive, they chalked it up to that rather than their &quot;campy&quot; and &quot;disrespectful&quot; production values. I find it interesting how many lies were spread about it&#039;s funding and length because it is so clearly a film that is barely credible as a student project. It could be just an unfortunate combination of fed up persecuted Christians who have no artistic or writing talents and expected that no matter what they did. they would offend people just by approaching the taboo; facts about Mohammed. It&#039;s unfortunate on the one hand, and fortunate that relatively few people were killed and wounded in order to expose the attitudes of Islamic leaders and followers alike around US embassies and the UN chambers. It&#039;s all sad, but this sad story dates back to the 7th century AD. </p>
<p>&quot;When you spoke initially, you came off as full Geller, complete with the &quot;Facts Matter&quot; that she likes to use when trolling other blogs. This post of yours appears to be a repudiation of Geller but not for the principles for which she allegedly stands. &quot; </p>
<p>That may have been your impression, but I&#039;ve written enough to clearly speak for myself. I don&#039;t read her much so I can&#039;t say how much we have in common in terms of approach. From what I have seen though, I can&#039;t quite understand how you got that impression. You do seem to jump to conclusions and read a lot in between the lines of things. Again, this is common today and how students are taught to think. They are taught by teachers and professors who model this behavior. It&#039;s everywhere. </p>
<p>&quot;At this point I would be interested again in how you act on your shared objectives outside of comment section discourse.&quot; </p>
<p>I don&#039;t have a public face of &quot;Jihad fighter&quot; as they do. I don&#039;t see a productive way to do that, other than my project that is not ready for publication. </p>
<p>The 2 things I do is direct help to Muslims and those, uh, under their influence in focusing on achieving goals that their imam&#039;s call worldly and &quot;western influence,&quot; like how to succeed in business etc. The second thing I have going is a huge collection of documentaries and history publications that I hope to use in creating a comprehensive distillation of the history one needs to know to decide for oneself how to deal with Islam. Facts do matter, and eventually the truth can bring people to peace rather than war. They have to sit around and tolerate the discourse long enough to find the common threads of truth and hence agreement and common cause.  </p>
<p>The one thing we agreed on is that lies are bad. That is a start. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3636662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 05:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3636662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;She is a legalized vandal&quot; 
 
That&#039;s obviously an oxymoronic statement. Vandalism is illegal. She went to court and won at least 1 case at an appellate court. The judge was very clear how important political speech is to protect. 
 
I don&#039;t read her articles unless by accident. but when she makes the larger news impressions I pay attention. That was important. 
 
I objected to the word &quot;savage&quot; because it won&#039;t motivate anyone to seek out the facts. It seems like hate speech if you don&#039;t know why she used the word. Therefore the ad was not productive in my opinion. At least I thought so before she went to court. What changed my mind? Well, if she wanted to get publicity by forcing people to discuss her justifications, maybe she succeeded in that. I can&#039;t say. It still would not be my choice.  
 
 &quot;I remind myself constantly that there must be some kernel of self-belief behind all of this activity&quot; 
 
I can assure you that all of their positions and claims are fully justified by the facts. I simply disagree with their tactics and use of language. I think that I can be pretty aggressive at times and really I think that I go right to the edge, therefore I can&#039;t support anyone who goes even further or I&#039;d go there myself. I don&#039;t. I&#039;m never confused about what I object to and who the victims are. I&#039;ve seen these things with my own eyes and ears and have accepted the realities for too long to sit around with boiling anger. Showing or representing anger rhetorically is some times useful, but when one is personally angry, it&#039;s best to go rest and process thoughts. 
 
&quot; It is certainly not beyond belief to me that Ms. Geller or Mr. Spencer possess within themselves certain truly held beliefs&quot; 
 
It&#039;s unfair to put them together as equals, thought Spencer seems to tolerate this, he&#039;s a fool to do so. I think that Geller is playing catch-up and tries to rise to the level of peer with Spencer. Maybe Spencer is inspired by her emotional presentations to do likewise. 
 
These are things that are far beyond my control, and certainly I have no need to defend them. I occasionally defend what they say. In fact I feel I must at times because their controversial language allows the focus to be shifted. The full truth about Islam is very complex for Westerners to understand. It is an apparently barbaric civilization and people assume the individuals must be backwards and stupid. People of all walks of life have roughly equal potential with one another, certainly this is true collectively. The most sophisticated politicians are the Islamic supremacists. They are sophisticated in the politics of Islam and the politics of Islam against the West and the rest of the world. This is what they apply their intellectual talents towards. Even Medical Doctors in Islam can be corrupted by the ideology. This leads to false conclusions when judging superficially from Western views. 
 
The bottom line is that I can not speak for others when I don&#039;t fully understand their motives myself. I can defend their ideas when I know they speak truthfully. That&#039;s about it. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;She is a legalized vandal&quot; </p>
<p>That&#039;s obviously an oxymoronic statement. Vandalism is illegal. She went to court and won at least 1 case at an appellate court. The judge was very clear how important political speech is to protect. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t read her articles unless by accident. but when she makes the larger news impressions I pay attention. That was important. </p>
<p>I objected to the word &quot;savage&quot; because it won&#039;t motivate anyone to seek out the facts. It seems like hate speech if you don&#039;t know why she used the word. Therefore the ad was not productive in my opinion. At least I thought so before she went to court. What changed my mind? Well, if she wanted to get publicity by forcing people to discuss her justifications, maybe she succeeded in that. I can&#039;t say. It still would not be my choice.  </p>
<p> &quot;I remind myself constantly that there must be some kernel of self-belief behind all of this activity&quot; </p>
<p>I can assure you that all of their positions and claims are fully justified by the facts. I simply disagree with their tactics and use of language. I think that I can be pretty aggressive at times and really I think that I go right to the edge, therefore I can&#039;t support anyone who goes even further or I&#039;d go there myself. I don&#039;t. I&#039;m never confused about what I object to and who the victims are. I&#039;ve seen these things with my own eyes and ears and have accepted the realities for too long to sit around with boiling anger. Showing or representing anger rhetorically is some times useful, but when one is personally angry, it&#039;s best to go rest and process thoughts. </p>
<p>&quot; It is certainly not beyond belief to me that Ms. Geller or Mr. Spencer possess within themselves certain truly held beliefs&quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s unfair to put them together as equals, thought Spencer seems to tolerate this, he&#039;s a fool to do so. I think that Geller is playing catch-up and tries to rise to the level of peer with Spencer. Maybe Spencer is inspired by her emotional presentations to do likewise. </p>
<p>These are things that are far beyond my control, and certainly I have no need to defend them. I occasionally defend what they say. In fact I feel I must at times because their controversial language allows the focus to be shifted. The full truth about Islam is very complex for Westerners to understand. It is an apparently barbaric civilization and people assume the individuals must be backwards and stupid. People of all walks of life have roughly equal potential with one another, certainly this is true collectively. The most sophisticated politicians are the Islamic supremacists. They are sophisticated in the politics of Islam and the politics of Islam against the West and the rest of the world. This is what they apply their intellectual talents towards. Even Medical Doctors in Islam can be corrupted by the ideology. This leads to false conclusions when judging superficially from Western views. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that I can not speak for others when I don&#039;t fully understand their motives myself. I can defend their ideas when I know they speak truthfully. That&#039;s about it. </p>
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		<title>By: objectivefactsmatter</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3636589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[objectivefactsmatter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 04:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3636589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;She was quoting Ayn Rand in order to make a case for war and for welfare payments and military gifts to Israel as well as to incite violence on buses.&quot; 
 
You really would get a lot more traction from your arguments if you didn&#039;t sort of mimic her style. In fact, you are quite a bit more hyperbolic, but you probably feel justified by your emotions towards her or her actions as she feels justified by Islamic tyranny. I&#039;m not trying to be harsh, all humans must watch out for our natural tendency towards hypocrisy. 
 
As I said, you&#039;d get more traction if you focused on objections that you can show to others with evidence rather than imagine you can look in to her soul. I&#039;ve already noted my objections to her. I have nothing to do with her because she has angered everyone but the choir. Not good. Not effective. She&#039;s a good cheerleader maybe, but I don&#039;t know if she wins new, thoughtful people to her arguments. That doesn&#039;t make her wrong in her claims though. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;She was quoting Ayn Rand in order to make a case for war and for welfare payments and military gifts to Israel as well as to incite violence on buses.&quot; </p>
<p>You really would get a lot more traction from your arguments if you didn&#039;t sort of mimic her style. In fact, you are quite a bit more hyperbolic, but you probably feel justified by your emotions towards her or her actions as she feels justified by Islamic tyranny. I&#039;m not trying to be harsh, all humans must watch out for our natural tendency towards hypocrisy. </p>
<p>As I said, you&#039;d get more traction if you focused on objections that you can show to others with evidence rather than imagine you can look in to her soul. I&#039;ve already noted my objections to her. I have nothing to do with her because she has angered everyone but the choir. Not good. Not effective. She&#039;s a good cheerleader maybe, but I don&#039;t know if she wins new, thoughtful people to her arguments. That doesn&#039;t make her wrong in her claims though. </p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3632381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 00:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3632381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like your progressive friends that doctor the unemployment rate? 
 
Nope, sadly they&#039;re pretty accurate. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like your progressive friends that doctor the unemployment rate? </p>
<p>Nope, sadly they&#039;re pretty accurate. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3632367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 00:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3632367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And when was the last trial and sentence meted out?  Let&#039;s think with islam that was huh, yesterday. With Catholicism it was how many hundreds of years ago? 
 
I&#039;m waiting for a link and source from you with a date and case. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And when was the last trial and sentence meted out?  Let&#039;s think with islam that was huh, yesterday. With Catholicism it was how many hundreds of years ago? </p>
<p>I&#039;m waiting for a link and source from you with a date and case. </p>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3626098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 06:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3626098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you. I will. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. I will. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3626081</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 06:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3626081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In context you claimed that Jewish hadarat nashim was not coerced but Islamic hadarat nashim is. Then you called me a psychopath. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In context you claimed that Jewish hadarat nashim was not coerced but Islamic hadarat nashim is. Then you called me a psychopath. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3626069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 06:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3626069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have spoken to a few Muslims and there was not one time where any of them didn&#039;t agree that Christians, Jews, and Muslims share three parts of the same cultural and religious heritage. That seems sensible to me. These other guys must just be cranks. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have spoken to a few Muslims and there was not one time where any of them didn&#039;t agree that Christians, Jews, and Muslims share three parts of the same cultural and religious heritage. That seems sensible to me. These other guys must just be cranks. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Schlomotion</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/oleg-atbashian/this-is-what-islamic-supremacism-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-3626064</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Schlomotion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 06:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=145873#comment-3626064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Foxman seems to have mellowed out and acted more American over the past 23 years. Now he is considered an Uncle Tom or an Uncle Moses by Hasbara hardliners. He still tries to get final cut over movies he didn&#039;t produce. He still claims the Bible is antisemitic. My jab was actually at Yerushalmi who seems to be fighting to have Halakha wherever Sharia might potentially move in in his far-fetched imagination. 
 
That you don&#039;t mind about hijabs sets you far apart from many of the louder voices on this site. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foxman seems to have mellowed out and acted more American over the past 23 years. Now he is considered an Uncle Tom or an Uncle Moses by Hasbara hardliners. He still tries to get final cut over movies he didn&#039;t produce. He still claims the Bible is antisemitic. My jab was actually at Yerushalmi who seems to be fighting to have Halakha wherever Sharia might potentially move in in his far-fetched imagination. </p>
<p>That you don&#039;t mind about hijabs sets you far apart from many of the louder voices on this site. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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