No Substitute for Victory: The Right Path to Peace for Israel

Andrew E. Harrod is a freelance researcher and writer who holds a PhD from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy and a JD from George Washington University Law School. He is a fellow with the Lawfare Project, an organization combating the misuse of human rights law against Western societies. You may follow Harrod on twitter at @AEHarrod.


danielpipes“Wars end when one side wins,” Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes trenchantly observed at a September 10, 2013, panel at Washington, DC’s National Press Club. Pipes addressed the topic “Twenty Years after Oslo:  Where Next for U.S. Policy?” at an event hosted by the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights (ARC).  Amidst concurring and opposing panelists, Pipes demonstrated that peace for Israel or any other state can only come not through compromise, but rather through completion of one conflict party’s strategic objective.

“No dispute,” as Pipes stated, existed among the panelists that the Oslo Arab-Israeli process begun 20 years ago on September 13, 1993 “was a failure.”  Both Commentary editor Jonathan S. Tobin and Elan Journo from ARC called the Oslo Accords a “disaster,” with Tobin noting that the Israeli leftist parties supporting the accords had subsequently collapsed.  Among various procedural aspects hindering in his view an Arab-Israeli settlement such as lack of a good mediator, Wilson Center scholar Aaron David Miller called the current gaps between Israeli and Palestinian positions “wide and perhaps unbridgeable.”

Pipes suggested the main obstacle to Palestinian peace was the fact that “neither side is defeated in this conflict…so the war goes on.”  Pipes cited the saying commonly heard during the Arab-Israeli conflict among others that “you make peace with your enemy.” Yet he qualified that in reality “one makes peace with one’s former enemy,” the “enemy who has given up.” The indecisive outcome of World War I, for example, led an embittered Germany to resume hostilities 20 years later. Pipes contrasted the unconditional surrender obtained by Germany’s enemies in World War II, in part precisely with the prior conflict’s result in mind.

Referencing Palestinian Authority (PA) official statements and media, to say nothing of the even more extreme jihadist group Hamas ruling in Gaza, Pipes noted an “enduring Palestinian Authority hostility to Israel.”  Rather than pacify, “Israeli concessions inflamed Palestinian hostility,” something that grew to a “deafening roar” to destroy Israel in the 2000 second intifada.  Palestinian hostility to Israel was also definitive for Tobin, who recalled that Palestinian nationalism formed in opposition to Zionism and is today a “culture that still lauds and rewards terrorism.”  This contrasted with an Israeli hunger for peace, such that any Israeli leader facing a serious Palestinian peace offer, even with considerable Israeli concessions, will “have to make the deal.”

Pipes’ answer to this impasse was to “give up on this model of diplomacy and substitute a model of winning.”  The “clear message” of Israel and its allies like the United States to the Palestinians must be “you’ve lost.” Channeling his inner Ronald Reagan, Pipes deemed the proper strategy to be “really simple:  we win, they lose.”  Journo as well advocated a “binary” approach to the conflict of “defeat or victory.”

Journo complemented his desire for strategic clarity with a call to reject the “morally grey approach” often coloring perceptions of Israelis and Palestinians.  Oslo’s “framework assumes you can ignore basic moral differences” pitting an Israeli democracy against a Palestinian leadership not interested in creating a free society.  The “worst conceivable crimes” historically charged to Israel simply did not compare with the atrocities perpetrated by Israel’s Arab neighbors as presently in Syria.

Such grey-shaded views in a peace process, Journo analyzed, would only “encourage the more militant,” resulting not in reciprocal deals but “extortion.”  The Oslo process apparently demanded, for example, that Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat would transform from an Al Capone-like terrorist into a Mr. Rogers-like good neighbor.  Yet Arafat actually “had to do very little” to satisfy these high expectations.

Even in failure the Oslo process had a “consequential legacy” such as the PA’s “reality,” Miller observed, yet this gave little comfort to the other panelists. Tobin, for example, considered Oslo’s “benefits overdrawn.”  While Miller assessed that “Oslo enabled” an Israeli peace treaty with Jordan, this did not add much to the preexisting “cold peace” between the two countries for Tobin.  Oslo had also done little to affirm Israel’s continually embattled legitimacy globally.  World opinion seemed to view Israel during the past 20 years merely as a “thief disgorging its illegal booty.”

The PA “really is now a permanent part of the international system,” Tobin agreed with Miller, with Gaza in particular being an “independent state in all but name.” The Palestinians “now have their facts on the ground.”  Most Israelis judged the 2005 Israeli withdrawal from Gaza as “really a bad idea,” but “Hamastan” is now irreversible.  Journo noted the bad precedent Gaza set for any future Israeli territorial withdrawals while Tobin analyzed that Israel’s “problem with these concessions is that they are not reversible.” Concerning any future concessions, therefore, Israel “plays close to the vest.”  For their part, the Palestinians, with a “lack of a culture that can produce a good leader,” have wasted post-Oslo aid with “corrupt, crony politics.”

Not a final Arab-Israeli peace deal, but “lower expectations” to “merely manage the conflict” seemed appropriate to Tobin under the circumstances.  The Obama Administration’s “focus on Israel” similarly appeared a “foolhardy enterprise” as well to Pipes. The “a bit crazy” diplomatic efforts of Secretary of State John Kerry reflected Pipes’ evaluation that the lawyers of the State Department were “excellent, superb at negotiating fishing treaties with Canada,” but not so good at handling aggressive, dangerous individuals like the Palestinian leaders.

Additionally for Pipes, the Arab-Israeli conflict had lost its “historic prominence” as the “Middle East conflict” amidst numerous regional crises.  This called into question the past common assumption cited by Tobin that “solving this problem was central to the Middle East.” Yet many in the Democratic Party believed that conflict resolution here would alleviate other Middle East headaches such as Egypt, Iran, and Syria, according to Pipes.

Pipes’ peace through victory strategy demanded that “largely psychological” measures eliminate the Palestinians’ still “vibrant dream” to destroy Israel.  American Israel policy should accordingly “tell our ally that it should win.”  As positive precedent, Pipes cited Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s hardline taken in the years 2001-2003.  While disagreeing with much of Pipes’ analysis, Miller, though, likewise recalled that hawkish Israeli politicians in the past were responsible for successful peace initiatives.

One way to “send a signal” to the Palestinians for Pipes would be a final relocation of the American embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.  The United States could likewise apply traditional definitions of refugees to the Palestinian diaspora, such that generations of descendants from those who lost their homes in 1948 would no longer count as refugees.  This would entail a significant cut in funding for UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East).

Pipes remembered that waking up on May 1, 1975, after the Communist conquest of South Vietnam was a “miserable thing.”  Yet conflict end demands unambiguous winners and losers, results that in the best case mirror objective moral standards.  One conflict party, Pipes concluded, must drink the “bitter crucible of defeat.”

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  • ADM64

    Okay. I agree fully with Mr. Pipes’ conclusion that war ends when one side clearly wins and the other accepts that it has lost. The problem in the Mid-East, is that the Palestinians refuse to accept that they’ve lost, and they have not suffered the fate of losers (particularly of losers who started a war), so they have no reason to change their behavior. Simply telling them, “You’ve lost” while pressing for a peace that recognizes their right to a state within Israel’s borders won’t accomplish that. Telling them, “Jordan is Palestine, you lost, now go there” might. That mght get their attention. But, you’d have to be willing to expel them. After WWII, many Germans in Prussia, western Poland and the like were expelled from territories they’d lived in for centuries because it was recognized that the ethnic mixing in those areas was at odds with a long term peace, and because Prussia was seen as the birthplace of German militarism. The Germans started and lost the war, so they suffered the consequences.

    Another point not considered is this: what if, after WWII, the Germans and Japanese, while recognizing that they’d been defeated, refused to accept that it had to be that way. Suppose they had continued insurgency once occupied, made clear they still honored the causes they fought for, and made clear they would go back to those causes once the “occupiers” had left. What would we have done? We know what the Soviets would have done. We probably would have suppressed them with whatever violence was necessary including, possibly, starving the populations. War is brutal. But unless the reality of that brutality is brought home and accepted, it will not, as Mr. Pipes notes, end.

    • I can’t tell m name

      So you want to expel the Palestinians from their homeland. You are no different than Hitler who when he invaded Poland, said: “Why do they complain, after all we improved their agriculture”. This is the same thing the Israelis said about having improved the West Bank’s economy. You are shamelessly advocating ethnic cleansing. Finally, when so many condemn Israel , somehow they hate Jews and are anti Semites.

      • Headed4TheHills

        Homeland? What homeland? There ain’t no Palestinian homeland. What was it’s flag (an’ I don’t mean the one used by the “Palestinian” squatters in Gaza an’ the West Bank)? It’s language? Who were it’s kings / leaders?

        • Moa

          Correct.

          Even Yasser Arafat (an Egyptian, like many of the non-Beduion Arabs imported by the Zionist settlers in the early 20th Century) did not care about “Palestine”: see the following, particualrly pages 6-12:

          http://www.al-rassooli.com/palestine/index.html

          The Arab position is simply to carry out the genocide commanded by Islamic hadith Sahih Muslim 6985. In 1967 the Soviets (masters of disinformation) convinced the Arabs to adopt the term “Palestinian” (which was used *exclusively* for Jews before Israel’s re-creation) so that this goal of genocide could be legitimized. And Low Information suckers in the West have been fooled by it ever since.

      • bribri

        perhaps palestinians and assorted muhammad arabs including moofti al-husseini shouldn’t have encouraged their twin bro hitler to holocaust millions of jews (ethnic cleansing) and force millions more to flee their european homes (ethnic cleansing), and perhaps arab countries shouldn’t have expelled almost one million jews (ethnic cleansing) forcing them to recreate their ancestral nation israel (inclusive democracy). shut up. shut the hell up now or one day muhammedans may end up having to leave our kuffar homelands and find new homes before we all get sucked up in your costly bs (mental-health emergency).

      • dartson

        So what is the problem with expelling the Palestinians? It is not the first time in history when the native people retake their ancestral lands after hundreds of years of foreign occupation. The Spaniards expelled Muslim invaders after 800 years of occupation, the Russians expelled Tatar-Mongolian invaders after 300 years of occupation, the former Soviet republics and Muslim areas of Russia are actively trying to kick the ethnic Russians out and now the Jews expelled Muslim invaders after hundreds of years of occupation.

        • I can’t tell m name

          I presume that this website is a front to promote the extreme wing of the Zionist group. It is apparent that almost all its comment promote genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. I am commending at the wrong forum, and so this my last comment: Good Buy and I hope you will fail too, as the this so called magazine has.

          • Moa

            The fact you use the word “Zionist” as a pejorative shows you have *zero* understanding of the history of the region.

            Stay here and you have a chance to learn it, if you have an open mind.

            Leaving is a cop-out that allows you to exercise your confirmation bias. The Scientific Method requires you to examine facts and possibilities contrary to your currently held viewpoint. If you were rational you’d listen to the history others have to tell you .. and you’d learn the truth about the matter.

            But if you really want to understand the conflict then you should read to things:

            1) Islamic hadith Sahih Muslim 6985. This short verse explains *everything* you need to know about the current conflict. Why the Arabs act as they do and why, as a consequence, Israel acts as it does. Anyone who has not read this verse cannot understand what the conflict is actually about – and the Arab position.

            2) Read the Hamas Charter. Clearly spells out their program (which is inspired by hadith Sahih Muslim 6985).

            If you have any questions or comments about these two documents then I’d be happy to assist with your understanding of the *facts*.

          • defcon 4

            LOL, I notice you have nothing to say about the ONGOING as well as HISTORICAL ethnic cleansing of anyone non-muslime that has been ongoing in the Mid-East and N. Africa for decades, if not centuries — incl. the Jewish populations of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Morocco.

          • ObamaYoMoma

            I presume that this website is a front to promote the extreme wing of the Zionist group. It is apparent that almost all its comment promote genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. I am commending at the wrong forum, and so this my last comment: Good Buy and I hope you will fail too, as the this so called magazine has.

            Through stealth and deceptive non-violent jihad, i.e., taqiyya, dissimulation, and mass misinformation, they (the Islamic world) have very successfully managed to exploit your own ignorance’s and biases to turn you against Israel and Jews, even though unbeknownst to you, you are in the same exact boat with Israel and the rest of us non-Muslim infidels, as all non-Muslim infidels are on the same target list as Israel. As a matter of fact, the sole fundamental purpose of Islam is the subjugation into Islamic totalitarianism of all religions and all infidels through both violent and non-violent jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia, which is Islamic totalitarian law. In other words, you have been successfully indoctrinated to become little more than a very gullible useful idiot and into acting against your own strategic self-interest. Just in the case you care to know!

          • I can’t tell m name

            You really can’t control yourself, can you?
            Self control is very important. You seem to be suffering from OCD. There is a very good medication for OCD. They call it LUVOX, and it works in a few days. Take it. I tried it on my pittbull dog, and it really worked. Take 10 mg at bed time, and you’ll sleep like a baby. Make sure you tell your doctor if you are sensitive to this medication, if you have any allergies, heart, liver or kidney disease.

          • tokoloshiman

            Please please provide details of genocide and ethnic cleansing committed by israel on palestinians.
            The last time i or anyone rational, checked the palestinians were thriving , their population has dramatically increased and they enjoy a better standard of living than many of their compatriots in neighboring countries!
            Also, there are many palestinians living free and anti jew lives in israel itself.
            This is very very strange way of ethnic cleansing.
            In fact it makes a mockery of true ethnic cleansing as in many african countries by arabs!
            Saudi arabia does not allow jews in – this is a form of ethnic cleansing, why not focus on that?
            Iran murders gays – more cleansing , why not focus on that?
            Arab theocratic regimes subjugate women and girls and stone them to death for rape and or adultery, why not focus on that/
            Aah, its probably too dangerous – you may get a fatwa
            on your head, much easier and safer to demonize jews and Israel of course.
            And, by the way if israel wanted to it could wipe out all
            palestinians in an instant, but it does not , because it is a civilized democratic state with freedom of the press and judiciary, and believe it or not freedom of religion.
            find any of this tolerance in an arab state or iran?

          • I can’t tell m name

            I am neither Iranian, Palestinian or Jewish. I never said that Israel was guilty of genocide. They killed, however, many Palestinians when they settled in what Israel is today. They have bulldozed 1000s of Palestinian homes and appropriated their land to build settlements for Jews that came from Europe and the US. This is not in dispute. It is in fact ethnic cleansing. Slow down and think first before you speak, and maybe you have a point or two. Nobody denies that Israel is democratic. That does not mean that democracies never commit crimes and in fact they do all the time, and Israel has had its own share of injustices committed against others. Like they say “the oppressed one day becomes the oppressor”. Never forget that.

          • I can’t tell m name

            You are right: Many Jews want to wipe out all Palestinians and Iranians. Benny Morris advocated ethnic cleansing and wiping out Iran with nuclear bombs. His views are widely shared by many Israelis as well by many American Jews. I just don’t believe Israel is such a wonderful democracy that prides itself for its support of human rights. History has taught us that genocides were not invented in Germany only. Many “democratic” countries have practiced genocide and ethnic cleansing for centuries. Is that what you want Israel to do?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            “Good Buy”

            LOL!

            And don’t let the Nakba hit you on yer azz when you crawl away.

      • ObamaYoMoma

        With all due respect, you are utterly clueless and a very gullible useful idiot.

        • defcon 4

          “very gullible useful idiot” or very bad muslime propagandist/liar.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        “So you want to expel the Palestinians from their homeland.”

        Only the stateless lawbreakers.

        “You are shamelessly advocating ethnic cleansing.”

        No, they are advocating ethnic cleansing by their behavior. They made the choices. They must accept responsibility for those choices. That’s how the world works outside of leftist lahlah land.

        • defcon 4

          I’ll bet all terrorism committed in the state of Israel over the last 60 years has been committed by muslimes.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            You’re right but to add precision to your statement we must acknowledge that a few leftist did get involved with terror tactics under the guidance of the jihadis.

          • defcon 4

            You’re right I forgot about the German (?) “Communist” assholes who assisted the musl0-nazis in pulling off Entebbe.

      • ObamaYoMoma

        So you want to expel the Palestinians from their homeland

        What’s wrong with that, you ever here of reciprocation? The Muslims expelled the Jews and the Christians from their own homelands and far worse when they conquered what was then Christendom. Thus, it is only fitting. Not to mention the fact that the so-called Palestinians are a fiction along with their narrative used to justify jihad and to dupe gullible useful idiot moonbats exactly like you.

        “Why do they complain, after all we improved their agriculture”. This is the same thing the Israelis said about having improved the West Bank’s economy.

        Indeed, you swallow taqiyya, i.e., mass misinformation, as if it is your favorite kind of candy without giving it an ounce of thought first. As a matter of fact, you are the worse kind of very gullible useful idiot.

        You are shamelessly advocating ethnic cleansing.

        Dude…if Israel and indeed the entire non-Muslim infidel world wants to survive in the long-term, not only must Israel eventually ethnically cleanse all Muslims from their country, but also all non-Muslim infidel countries around the world must also ethnically cleanse all Muslims as well, as the sole fundamental purpose of Islam is the subjugation into Islamic totalitarianism of all religions and all infidels through both violent and non-violent jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia, which is Islamic totalitarian law.

        Finally, when so many condemn Israel , somehow they hate Jews and are anti Semites.

        I know and you are a perfect example of it too. Indeed, your entire purpose for even posting in this thread is due to the fact that you have been rendered into becoming little more than a very obsessed and bigoted anti-Semitic moron and also a very gullible useful idiot via stealth and deceptive non-violent jihad, i.e., taqiyya, dissimulation, and mass misinformation, in which you swallow blindly without even giving it a second thought.

        • I can’t tell m name

          You really can’t control yourself, can you?
          Self control is very important. You seem to be suffering from OCD. There is a very good medication for OCD. They call it LUVOX, and it works in a few days. Take it. I tried it on my pitbull dog, and it really worked. Take 10 mg at bed time, and you’ll sleep like a baby. Make sure you tell your doctor if you are sensitive to this medication, if you have any allergies, heart, liver or kidney disease.

        • I can’t tell m name

          I just hope there aren’t too many like you in this world. You are a disgrace to all the well meaning American Jews. Your hatred is too deep and unholy.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      The problem in the Mid-East, is that the Palestinians refuse to accept that they’ve lost,

      Actually, the so-called Palestinians are the proxies for the entire Islamic world, which includes approximately 1.6 billion Muslims. Not to mention that the sole fundamental purpose of Islam is the subjugation of all religions and all infidels into Islamic totalitarianism through both violent and non-violent jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia, which is Islamic totalitarian law. Thus, the problem is much greater than only Israel, as all non-Muslim countries in the world are also on Islam’s target list.

      • defcon 4

        Exactly, the plight of the islam0nazi refugees from Israel would have been solved decades ago but isn’t because the islam0nazi world doesn’t want it solved. It’s strange how no mention is ever made of the nearly one million (and probably more than a million by now) Jews ethnically cleansed from the muslime states of the Mid-East and N. Africa.

      • SIlver Gonzales

        And the Israeli Left cannot accept the fact that their country won so much territory in 1967 and defended it in 1973

        • ObamaYoMoma

          Hey I could care less what self-hating morons think and accept. Especially when Leftism is obviously a very severe mental disease. They also blame their own country’s policies for the jihad being waged against them, even though Israeli policies have nothing to do with it whatsoever and all of the so-called Palestinian claims are fictional and fantasy based, as jihad is holy fighting in the cause of Allah for the establishment/expansion of Islam, which is a function of the sole fundamental purpose of Islam, and that is to subjugate into Islamic totalitarianism all religions and all infidels through violent and non-violent jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia.

          Indeed, Israel’s jihad problem far and away transcends just only Israel and actually involves all non-Muslim infidel countries in the world. Thus, it will take a collective solution to solve not only Israel’s problem but also the collective problem of the non-Islamic world. However, the current biggest obstacle is that through stealth and deceptive non-violent jihad, i.e., dissimulation and misinformation, the Islamic world has very successfully managed to exploit the ignorance’s and biases of numerous non-Muslim countries to turn them against Israel and also against their own self-interests as well.

          • tokoloshiman

            remember what Pamela Geller said” Truth is the new hate speech”
            (so true, so ergo this must be hate speech too.)

    • objectivefactsmatter

      “The problem in the Mid-East, is that the Palestinians refuse to accept that they’ve lost, and they have not suffered the fate of losers…”

      That IS his entire point.

      “Simply telling them, “You’ve lost” while pressing for a peace that recognizes their right to a state within Israel’s borders won’t accomplish that.”

      That is not what he’s suggesting at all. You must make them drink from the bitter cup. Obviously they won’t believe anything we say at this point and I wouldn’t expect them to. We must show them. They must drink from the cup. They must submit and then we can show mercy on our terms when we feel it’s advantageous to do so. And not to appease leftist lunatics.

      • ObamaYoMoma

        “Simply telling them, “You’ve lost” while pressing for a peace that recognizes their right to a state within Israel’s borders won’t accomplish that.”

        Sharia, which is divine, i.e., it emanates directly from Allah (God) and therefore is perfect, flawlessly just, and absolutely infallible, must always prevail above that of any and all manmade laws that are fallible by definition since they emanate from very fallible man as opposed to divinely from Allah (God). Thus, in the eyes of all Muslims in the world all non-Islamic states are illegitimate and ripe for the pickings. Indeed, there can never be peace between Islam and any and all non-Islamic states, as Islam sees all manmade laws as abominations that must obliterated.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          But we can play the winning side of the submission game too, as long as we’re rational about it. I don’t feel guilty about our sovereignty. I don’t feel bad when we have to defend it either. Defend in my dictionary means winning, not appeasing.

          I feel bad that we allowed and continue to allow maniacs to lie to our students and now we have stupid and ignorant citizens with voting rights all over the land.

          • tokoloshiman

            without a decisive victory the west will have to live in eternal fear.

    • kenaan Jelili

      All your discussions tell that your look to this world is within the supreme ability of mankind ,and that this earth and universe are their own property .We as Muslims and Palestinians believe in the absolute ability of Allah ,the creator and the real owner of everything ,including our souls.So we believe that the invasion of international Zionism aided by the powerful victorious states after WWII is in itself a kind of punishment and a test to the believers ,how far should they resist and fight to regain their rights and to rebuild the Islamic destroyed regime. We do not rely on UN or any other international agency ,as we know all of them submit to the will of the illegal state called Israel .We know how severe was the agony of Jews in Europe in the late 19th century and the early 20th ,but we as Palestinians had nothing to do with that crime or to suffer its sequences .I know as a Palestinian from the suburbs of Haifa that there were Jewish and Christian neighbors in our village .I know that some good old Jews told some of our grandfathers then : (in 1945-1946) save your children and flee away ,before you are forced to do this .The Palestinians then would smile and shrug ” What is our mistake ? What wrong have we done? No one could believe that this enormous amount of oppression could happen .So ,be sure we will never surrender ,because the land is ours ,you can read whatever you read in your scrolls .We also believe that this is the climax era of the sons of Israel ,but we are sure that the descending era is ahead.

  • Raymond_in_DC

    “Pipes suggested the main obstacle to Palestinian peace was the fact that “neither side is defeated in this conflict…so the war goes on.””

    And why does it go on? Because in all past confrontations, the Israelis were never allowed to win and the Arabs were never allowed to lose.

    With the exception of some weaponry supplied through Czechoslovakia back in 1948 and Nixon’s decision to replenish Israel’s depleted supplies in 1973, the world has stood aside when Israel was under threat or suffering military setbacks. But when Israel is prevailing, the world is quick to call for a ceasefire and a return to previous lines, providing Israel’s enemies hope of success at some future “do over” confrontation.

    Even more shameful is that aggression against Israel never carries a cost, as the aggressor is repeatedly rewarded or made whole. Recall that after thousands of missiles were fired from Gaza, ultimately sparking an Israeli response, the US subsequently organized a “donors conference” to raise billions for Gaza reconstruction.

    • I can’t tell m name

      Here we go again. American Jews with dual citizenship putting the interests of Israel ahead of those of the US. We have a very strange an unusual situation in the US whereby a tiny 2% of the population controls the US government at the local, state and federal level.

      • cant tell m name bcs m racist

        what you wrote has nothing to do with what Raymond wrote. You’re just a racist that actually thinks the jews control the world.

        • I can’t tell m name

          That’s just outright silly. This so called magazine put the phrase “bcs m racist” in front of my name!!! Why?
          I suggest that after you watch a news segment, a talk show, or a movie, do as I do: Note the names of the producers, the directors, the writers and others. They are all Jewish. I follow the stock market, and I see most if not all the major investment bankers are Jewish. They don’t control the world, I agree, thank god. They don’t have to have all the congressmen to be Jewish, but all of them are the lapdogs of AIPAC. They wag their tale non stop, waiting for the next command. Then they fetch another billion from the taxpayers and bring back another “billion dollar “treat” to the Israeli government. And if anyone complains, then he is an anti-Semite. You can call me all the names you want, but I am an American, and you are not and never will be.

          • Moa

            Those people are of Jewish descent. That does not mean they are practising Jews.

            Imagine if we said, “there are so many people with German-sounding names in the US, I bet you they all secretly work for Nazis or the Bundesrepublik”. Or similarly, “There are so many English names in America – I bet you they secretly want to aid and abet the Queen reclaiming the Colonies”.

            See how ridiculous your statement is based only on the name someone inherited. The reason you have a problem with Jews (and do not seem them as individuals) is that you are a racist. You may not think so, but you most certainly are. Disgusting.

          • Moa

            ps. The Saudis have far more influence in the US than the Jews.

            After 9/11 everyone was grounded for a week. Did the Jews/Israelis get to fly? no! what was the one nationality allowed to fly? Saudis

            After the Boston bombings and a Saudi was a prime suspect, later found to a part of a Saudi network, who was quickly hustled out of the country with no questions asked? Saudis.

            When Kuwait was invaded and the Saudis were threatened, did the US not rush to defend Saudi? (compare the laggardly responses to Israel’s defence in 1967 and 1973).

            The war in Syria today is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi – part of a battle as to which sect gets to rule the Islamic world. Can you guess why Obama is so desperate to intervene and on whose side? You do know the Saudis offered to pay the *entire* cost of the intervention, treating the US Army as mere mercenaries for hire.

            There are a lot of factions vying for influence over the US Government. Israel is one. So are the Saudis, but the Saudis are the ones with all the money and connections and power – it’s just because they pay well they get to keep it quiet (whereas the Israelis have to bleat in the court of public opinion to try get leverage).

            Note, I don’t have anything in particular against the Saudis (apart from they are playing both sides in the game; they control the jihadis yet they also aid the West sometimes). I’m just calling it like it *really is*.

            So knock off with the anti-Jewish racism. It just shows you have only scratched the topmost surface of what is going on. You’d learn more by listening/reading than simply regurgitating the disinformation you’ve been fed.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “ps. The Saudis have far more influence in the US than the Jews.”

            But, we’d know if that were true! I would. I can tell these things. I don’t see the Saudis with their names on TV shows. How can they possibly rule the world in place of the Jews?

            Come on man! It’s right in front of you!!

          • Moa

            I dunno whether you are being sarcastic or not (that’s the trouble with the Web).

            If you are being sarcastic then we’re in agreement.

            If you are not being sarcastic then my earlier statement explains why the Saudis have real power (where the influence of their money, oil and ability to control of jihadis does not leak out into the public arena, because they can get what they want without this happening), and the Israelis have some influence but far less power (which is why they have to whinge in public until enough sympathizers in the US will get the politicians to act).

            Sorry for not getting which of these you meant.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            No problem dude. Some times the gas fumes go to my head. I just can’t see how the Saudis could possibly influence our nation when “the Jews” have all the TV shows.

            I need to run, my car is very low on fuel and i need to filler-up. I hope those Joos don’t stop me on the way…they run the world you know.

          • Moa

            lol. Flick some more gas pump jizya to support the jihad!

          • defcon 4

            The Saudis either have the top spot or a close second as financier to worldwide islam0fascist terrorism.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “The Saudis either have the top spot or a close second as financier to worldwide islam0fascist terrorism.”

            If you count the state and private (unofficial Saudi royal family members plus other elites) funding they’re almost certainly number 1.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “I suggest that after you watch a news segment, a talk show, or a movie, do as I do: Note the names of the producers, the directors, the writers and others. They are all Jewish.”

            Warner Brothers: Jewish! I rest my case!

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            When was the last time Warner Brothers got your $50 for a tank of gasoline?

          • defcon 4

            Aw gee, another delusional Jew hater. I had thought MGM was bought out by Sony Pictures.

      • iluvisrael

        Pipes really knows how to get your panties in a bunch huh? Loosen up that white hood a little – you already have a brain cell deficit.

      • ObamaYoMoma

        You are more than a little paranoid at the same time you are also exceedingly anti-Semitic as well loon.

      • defcon 4

        LOL, what about the muslime 5th columnists in the USA? Unless you’re one of them.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      And why does it go on?

      Simple. Islam’s jihad is perpetual until such time as all religions and all infidels have been subjugated into Islamic totalitarianism through jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia, which is Islamic totalitarian rule. Indeed, who are the so-called Palestinians? The answer is they are the proxies of the Islamic world. Moreover, whether you realize it or not, all non-Muslim infidels, including you and me along with Israel, are on Islam’s target list.

      • Moa

        100% correct!

        There are a lot of verses of the Qur’an that command the Muslims to carry out their planned subjugation of the World. The best ones are:

        Qur’an Sura 9:5

        Qur’an Sura 9:29

        hadith Sahih Muslim 6985

        If you think the Jews are hated by Islam because of land then I definitely suggest the last item. Note also that it does not refer to Israelis (which did not exist at the time it was written). It refers to Jews. So all the Palestinian-appeasing Jews in the US are still going to be killed by Muslims (no matter what you do, the hadith is considered “reliable” and is quite clear). Sorry Jews. Fortunately, not all of us Gentiles are clueless, and we “stand with you”.

    • defcon 4

      France used to make some efforts to assist Israel — with things like front-line fighter jets, custom designed cannons and turrets for the IDF Super Sherman. So did Germany, who supplied Israel w/some of the most advanced subs in the world today.

      • Raymond_in_DC

        Just before the Six Day War of 1967 France embargoed all arms supplies to Israel, even items (like Mirage jets) that had already been paid for. And in 1973, not a single European country allowed US aircraft flying supplies to embattled Israel to land on their territory. The US had to make do with the Azores and aerial refueling.

        Yes, Germany is *today* providing Israel with advanced submarines, but Britain has embargoed certain spare parts due to pressure from the anti-Israel BDS crowd.

        • defcon 4

          I believe the British still supplied Israel w/Centurion tanks (the top-of-the-line models I believe) in ’67′.

          • Raymond_in_DC

            Quite so. And Israel provided captured top-line Soviet tanks to the Americans and Brits, which tested and tore them down at bases in Scotland.

            My point was not that Europe had been, or remains, consistently hostile to Israel. Only that they’ve been consistently absent when Israel needed them the most, and have grown more hostile in general over time. Recall, for example, that the UK’s Caradon with his US counterpart were the most insistent that UNSC 242 not require that Israel withdraw from “the territories” won in the 1967 war but only from “territories”.

            Today the UK and most Europeans act as if 242 and its restatement as UNSC 338 are irrelevant and that the 1949 lines are to be treated as Israel’s de facto borders. (The same holds true for Obama and the State Department crowd that seem to forget any precedent favorable to Israel when they prove inconvenient.)

          • defcon 4

            In reading history of the War of Independence and the UK’s actions in Israel before then I’ve lost a lot of respect for the UK. It all makes the victory in the War of Independence seem more unreal and miraculous.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Never forget that the UK released the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103 – on “compassionate” grounds – for Libyan oil contracts.

  • ObamaYoMoma

    The sole fundamental purpose of Islam is the subjugation of all religions and all infidels into Islamic totalitarianism through both violent and non-violent jihad and the eventual imposition of Sharia. Thus, the only solution for Israel and indeed the entire non-Islamic world would involve the outlawing of Islam throughout the non-Islamic world and the ethnic cleansing of our societies of all Muslims as the first very important crucial step. This, of course, would include Israel The next step would involve the eradication of the ruling Mullah regime in Iran and the destruction of their nuclear weapons program, while also forcing the Pakistanis to hand over their massive nuclear weapons arsenal and into letting us dismantle or destroy their nuclear weapons programs. The final step would involve the complete abandonment and isolation of the Islamic world.

    Indeed, since Islam is a very totalitarian cult, other than jihad and misery, Islam is incapable of producing anything on its own. Thus, an isolated Islamic world without the West to prop it up would soon fall into crushing and debilitating abject poverty. Then the Islamic world should be allowed to stew in this condition for several generations until such time as Islam as a force becomes totally discredited throughout the Islamic world.

    In the meantime, we should make it very clear to the isolated Islamic world that an attack of any kind no matter how big or how small on Israel or any other non-Islamic entity, for that matter, would result in very devastating consequences in retribution, such as the eradication of Mecca and Medina. Of course, unlike Obama, we must be prepared to act at a moments notice should they decide to test us.

    • Moa

      Well said. That’s why Islam permits Christian and Jewish dhimmis (discriminated against and oppressed citizens within the Islamic political order). Since Muslims are non-productive Islamic societies keep non-Muslims as virtual slaves (as well as actual slaves, when they get the chance; eg see Sudan today!) to be productive – otherwise Islamic societies would have died of starvation long ago.

      • defcon 4

        Don’t forget Mauritania, another islamic slave state in N. Africa.

      • JoeBotz

        The TALMUD discriminates against GOYIM’S/CHRISTIANS! READ IT! You putz!

        • Moa

          So what? You are arguing theory. What about the practice.

          When was the last time you heard of a Jewish program against Christians? getting close to 2000 years ago?

          Now, let’s look at Islam in *theory* and *practice* – killing of *everyone* (it is Muslims of other sects who get it worse, followed by the call in hadith Sahih Muslim 6985 to kill every Jew anywhere, and Sura 9:5 and 9:29 to subjugate everyone else).

          Look at the daily carnage you are defending:
          http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
          http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

          Well, I don’t know if you are a “putz” or not – but by trying to draw a false moral equivalence you are certainly an apologist for evil.

    • tokoloshiman

      this totally logical view will be totally rejected because appeasement and dithering is the new diplomacy that in the end destroys itself and its host, in this case the west.

  • glennd1

    Pipes articulates the brutal immorality of the Zionist worldview perfectly “We win, you lose” – via force and any other means necessary. This is exactly how Israel behaves – the brutal calculus of power is driving their actions for sure. Pipes uses a throwaway line about Israel’s “crimes” and how they pale in comparison to those even going on Syria right now, and other Arab and Muslim countries. Really?

    So this is the excuse he offers for the radical Zionists ethnically cleansing their west awarded territory in ’48 of 800,000 Arab Muslims? Going well beyond the U.N. partition agreement and violating it’s condition that no indigenous people were to be dislocated by the formation of Israel? Hmmm, okay. So the deal is that Pipes now claims Israel has no moral authority, it’s just another self-interested group trying to “get theirs”. Okay, good luck – just don’t tell me that I should care. Or that backing Israel is good for the U.S. and its interests.

    Just sayin’… Or does Pipes believe that what is permitted to Israel and the Zionists is not permitted to Arab Muslims? Taking one’s homeland back and fighting back against those who oppress and terrorize? I say let them fight it out – I don’t care who wins. Pipes is correct in this, we need a winner and a loser to move on from the standoff that infects everything in the mideast.

    • Solo712

      I think you’ve just confirmed Pipes’ point.

    • defcon 4

      “Radical zionists” being the ones who don’t want to submit to islam0nazi persecution, genocide and ethnic cleansing, which are the hallmarks of islam0nazi rule.

  • defcon 4

    The charter of Hamas cites a “authentic” islamic hadith that calls for the total extermination of Jews. It also calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Being that those are the GOALS of the organization, what’s the point of negotiating w/them AT ALL?

  • defcon 4

    Perhaps the islam0nazis shouldn’t of invaded Israel w/genocidal intent on three different occasions. Perhaps the islam0nazis should stop the terrorist attacks they have been committing against Israel for the past sixty years.

  • SIlver Gonzales

    BRAVO to MR PIPES re: US STATE DEPT.

    Very good at negotiating fishing treaties and importing of roofing shingles with Canada and the EU but the girls in the US State Dept cannot touch their ankles quick enough when it comes to Islam.

  • JoeBotz

    What about the incredibly anti GOYIM/Christian TAL-MUD?
    Why are Gentiles less human than those who sinned against GOD?