Pro-Amnesty Liberals in Evangelicals’ Clothing


13evangelicals-articleLargeEvery few months since at least 2006, The New York Times takes time out from brow-beating Evangelicals to praise them for supporting amnesty for illegal aliens.

Most of the “Evangelicals” the Times cites are liberal frauds, far from “unlikely allies” in amnesty, as alleged. It is a specialty of the left to pose as something they’re not in order to create the impression of a zeitgeist. The only one I haven’t seen quoted yet is the ACLU’s minister, Barry Lynn.

The Times keeps touting Evangelicals for Amnesty as evidence of a “shift,” a “change of heart” and a “secret weapon.” Breaking the same news story every two months since 2006 isn’t a shift; it’s propaganda.

Any Evangelical promoting the McCain-Rubio amnesty plan has the moral framework of Planned Parenthood. Like the abortion lobby, they have boundless compassion for the people they can see, but none for those they can’t see.

One Evangelical after another told the Times that they no longer believe Americans should have control over who immigrates here on the basis of having met illegal aliens in their pews. The millions harmed by illegal immigration are left out of the equation. They don’t go to church here.

Similarly, the pro-choice crowd is brimming with compassion for girls who have gotten pregnant by accident. They’re in high school, their whole lives are ahead of them, it’s one mistake! The babies don’t count because they’re out of sight.

The Rev. David Uth, head pastor of First Baptist Orlando, said that based on “the stories out there in the pews” from illegals who “have made friends and who have become close with people here,” there was momentum in his church to “do something to address their needs.”

Mr. Uth and his parishioners will never hear stories from the thousands of Americans killed every year by illegal aliens. They won’t be sitting in the pews with those murdered and maimed in Boston last month by a conspiracy of immigrants.

They won’t hear from hospitals and school systems in border states forced into bankruptcy because they have to provide free services to illegals. They won’t chat with farmers and ranchers whose livestock and property are stolen or destroyed by illegal aliens.

Jay Crenshaw, a parishioner at First Baptist Orlando, told the Times that he was a conservative Christian, but his views had changed “as a result of personal encounters with immigrants in church.” After a fellow parishioner was arrested for driving illegally, “Mr. Crenshaw said he realized that his friend, an active church member who was supporting his mother and a brother” — by the way, so are you, readers! — “could be deported.”

(You know who else’s views changed as a result of a personal encounter with an illegal alien? The 31-year-old mother allegedly shot to death by illegal immigrant Jose Zarate in Arizona earlier this year because she wouldn’t allow the 25-year-old to date her 13-year-old daughter.)

Noting that he had “a lot of compassion,” Crenshaw explained that once you have “walked with someone and put a face and family behind the immigration issue, it very much personalizes it.”

Unfortunately for educated Europeans desperate to escape their collapsing socialist societies being overridden with Muslims, Mr. Crenshaw has not met them and therefore cannot “personalize” their troubles. They’re barred from coming here, and he’s fine with that.

This new Christian ethic of compassion-by-personal-encounter is also bad news for the millions of American blue-collar workers unable to find work because of the massive influx of unskilled immigrants.

And there will be no compassion for the tens of millions of Americans who will never see a dime of their promised Social Security payments, even as their taxes go through the roof, because Mr. Crenshaw’s compassion requires that this country turn itself into the welfare ward of the world.

This is the same moral courage that allows some of these ministers to rain fire and brimstone on gays, while never getting around to criticizing divorce. They don’t know any gays — but they have lots of divorcees in their pews.

Principles do not vary depending on personal circumstances. But these so-called Evangelicals wouldn’t know a principle unless it sat next to them in the pew.

Another Christian interviewed by the Times, Stewart Hall, also restricts his Christian compassion to those he can see. “It occurs to me,” Hall said of the illegal immigrants in his church, “that if Jesus was sitting next to me, he would not care whether they were illegal or legal.”

Would Jesus care if they were gay? Would he care if they’d had abortions? Because if that’s the test for public policy, it’s abortion-on-demand and gay marriage all around!

Moreover, it’s not clear that Jesus wouldn’t care how people came to this country. Did they come here in disobedience of the laws of God and of man? Was their first act on American soil to defy the law of the nation?

And why can’t Jesus love them if they’re back in Mexico? Does the Bible say that Christ died only for U.S. legal residents? Maybe that passage is buried in the Book of Malachi. (I never read that one carefully!)

Adopting a classic liberal trait, these Christians incapable of abstract thinking seem to believe that true compassion consists of giving away something that isn’t theirs. They repeatedly cite the biblical passage about treating the stranger as you would yourself. But I note that they don’t invite strangers to move into their houses, sleep in their beds, eat their food and have sex with their wives.

No, they demand that we transform our country into a bankrupt, Third World hellhole so that they can feel good about themselves. But every American has an interest in what kind of country this is. America isn’t theirs to give away out of phony “Christian” compassion.

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  • Michael JR Jose

    Many a puerile and shallow lefty in the church in the UK fits this bill. If you talk to them of rose-tinted spectacles, worn when they see illegal immigrants in the UK infiltrate the church looking for 'asylum', and ask why they expect respect for the rule of law elsewhere, even as they interpret it, they go silent. If you ask them how many of a billion or so Chinese have the 'right' to come the UK with a population of 63 million – and what is the maximum quota, they go silent. If you ask them why they have 'rights' and I do not, they go silent. Then, after a decent period of silence they just go on telling the materialist pseudo-gospel of socialism all over again.

  • Indus Valley

    The Churches which are into 'liberation theology' cult, have stopped reading the Bible altogether….

  • Anthony

    I'm a Roman Catholic who in the last few months has altogether stopped going to church after a lifetime for just this reason. In church, all too often, the mantra on social issues, especially immigration, seems to have replaced the gospel. The final nail in the coffin was hearing a visiting white priest working in Africa soliciting funds to support his work there basically say that we are rascist and reminded us of Church bombings in the South.

    As to the complete nuttiness that rules society top down, and sideways, (modern liberalism) it is functioning precise to specifications. The Frankfurt School and the various "studies" departments devoted to instigation and grievance it spawned has rested in what the Bible (can I write that word here without being banned?) referred to as "confusion among the nations…".

    The train is in full runaway mode now and the brakes have burned off. America is in its final death contortions and nothing will reverse our Balkanization.

    Sadly, those most responsible for this sad disaster, Ted "The Swimmer" , Kennedy and LBJ, most likely even if they still lived, would be on board with the evil operatives in both parties in supporting the diversity farce demolishing our nation.

    • bluffcreek1967

      Anthony, great post! I completely agree. The 1965 immigration act was the beginning of our nation's end when it allowed an endless amount of third-world immigrants to replace the white majority. The West, by virtue of unchecked third-world, non-white immigration is on its deathbed. Most Westerners just don't know it yet. Like the Frog in the Kettle, they'll only realize it once they've been fully replace and have become aliens in their own land.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

        Another thing we should thank the Kennedy clan for.

        • PaleRider

          You're quite the gadfly, aren't you?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            I wonder why you use that name. Did you try to declare jihad and post personal information again? You are so predictable. I just couldn't find that comment anyplace. What happened to it?

            Are you a banned troll here as a guest and even having those comments pulled?

          • PaleRider

            Personal information?
            We know what you had for supper last night, what time you got up today, and the last time you flushed your toilet.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Go ahead, and explain it a little more for the moderators.

            Are you admitting to stalking other posters here just to keep them scared and off the forum?

    • Ana Zuniga Maus

      I am also a Roman Catholic that walk out of church, because I did not like their meddling in government affairs and politics. They should be concentrated on fixing all the abuses they have in the priesthood, instead of getting involve in politics, because that is out of the teachings of the church and they have many people, with many different views and they should respect that and stay out of this all together.

    • wjl

      Those clerics who would betray the country on the immigration issue have already betrayed the Church on theological and moral issues; these proponents of mass immigration are opponents of the true Mass. I suggest you find a church run by the SSPX or similar where the MASS is offered.

  • Tony

    Anthony,

    You must not leave the church that Christ founded. You can't let these happenings affect you. Remember Christ's words-"I will be with you till the end of time" Don't let the actions of men keep you from the truth.

    • Jim

      Which church did Christ found???

      • Looking4Sanity

        Indeed.

        • EarlyBird

          So now the scumbag who in writing in this forum stated that he finds the murder of 20 five year old children in cold blood morally preferable to the acts of misguided individuals who would enact gun control, believes he knows something about Christianity. You repulsive piece of garbage.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Was that written during an outbreak of rabid seizures or something?

    • Nanis

      WOW!!! I really liked this article. Opened my eyes to say more to so called Christians………..

      • Looking4Sanity

        I'm sure you never found yourself at a loss for an unkind word in your life.

    • Looking4Sanity

      I don't really think it's any of your business if the man feels moved to change denominations. If the Catholic Church hadn't strayed so far from the Gospel, they wouldn't have the problems they so obviously do. And FYI? Jesus didn't "found" the Catholic Church.

    • bluffcreek1967

      Nope, the RCC is NOT the church Christ founded. Ironically, the RCC is not only a counterfeit 'church' with a foreign gospel, it's not even a good counterfeit!? Aside from radical differences in soteriology (doctrine of salvation) between Reformed Protestants and the RCC, the ecclesiology (doctrine and practice of church) of the RCC radically deviates from clear, apostolic patterns.

      For instance, elders, bishops and pastors are used interchangeably in the NT; church services were participatory in nature; terms such as clergy and laity refer to all of God's people, and not to a selected class; the Lord's Supper as described in the NT was a real, full meal and not a token meal; and on it goes. There's too much to list at this point.

      Forget about returning to the RCC. Return instead to the Christ of the NT and follow the apostolic patterns clearly established in the pages of the NT as opposed to directions from an apostate religious organization far removed from what the NT envisions for the Christian Church.

      Sola Scriptura! Sola Fide!

  • Elvira

    We are not responsible for every poor and uneducated human being in this world. Our government was not instituted as a welfare agency. It was formed to represent the needs and wishes of the citizens of our country and the elected officials have no right to use taxpayers money to pander for votes or to act as philanthropists. If we wish to help our poor neighbors in Mexico, than we should press that government to take better care of their citizens and be more responsible for the border. Mexico, after all, is a wealthy country.

    As for the churches, their social justice is nothing but the Marxist practice of stealing from those who produce and redistribute to their friends or those who would vote for them. Jesus never told us to steal from the rich. Stealing and coveting your neighbors wealth are two of the Ten Commandments.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

    The liberals find a power base and either destroy it or co-opt it. Since they couldn't destroy religion they're trying to make it into something it's not.

    They did that with journalists, the education system, the courts and every other obstacle they have to complete control.

    We have to draw the line someplace, and I'm glad someone is pointing out what they're up to.

    • Looking4Sanity

      This is S.O. P. for the Communists. They infiltrate a country and go after the Churches first…even before the press or the education system. Just look at any soc_ialist South American country. Talk to their dissidents. They all tell the same story.

  • κατεργάζομαι

    RE: "Pro-Amnesty Liberals in Evangelicals’ Clothing"

    …."Pro-Romney & Pro-Christy Ann Coulter, a RINO in Evangelicals’ Clothing"

    ………..jus sayn'

    • slider 96

      Teebaggers biting each other again .. Soooo pathetic , but funny .

  • EarlyBird

    Coulter translated: "Oh no! Our dependable evangelical Christians are getting away from us! They are thinking independently! We must destroy those who go off the reservation! Our power is slipping away!"

    Yep kids, you're living through the end of the once-great Reagan Revolution. You and Coulter and everyone associated with this hate site are part of the rump end, the bitter dead-enders. Real conservatives are quietly rebuilding while you psychopaths implode in rage and resentment.

    • Looking4Sanity

      You're one sad little dwarf.

    • Russ P.

      Congratulations, you just won the ignorant post of the day award.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

        EB does that a lot, really a lot!

    • Defcon 4

      Meanwhile, your fellow muslime brethren are exploding in rage, resentment, blood and body parts.

      • slider 96

        As you can see Early Bird , the stunted teebagger brain can not even acknowledge what is happening to them . Now the redmeat tossed out is causing a feeding frenzy where they all bite each other . It's fun to watch and worthy of MOCKERY .

  • Chezwick

    What so many refuse to grasp is that illegal immigrants tend to be much more productive than US citizens on the bottom rung of the economic ladder. Just look at the productivity difference between Latin-Americans who have arrived illegally over the past 20 years, those who build and maintain our houses, manicure our lawns, serve us at restaurants, and change the linen at our hotels…..and the Peurto Ricans citizens living in New York City who swell our welfare rolls.

    Citizenship is the path to a culture of apathy and government hand-outs. As strange as it may seem, we need illegals. And once amnesty has been passed, we'll need a whole new crop of illegal aliens as so many of those who become citizens will opt for collecting public assistance.

    • Viktoria

      you know what, i am so sick of that stupd arguement. i worked in an E.R. for 30 years and i saw all those
      virtuous illegal immigrants every weekend lying in beds up & down the hallways, either hand-cuffed to a bed
      or so drunk, slobbering &/or unconscious from the amount of liquor consumed they couldn't even idenitify
      themselves. maybe my view is a bit tainted but your arguement is crap! my parents were immigrants. they came here to be Americans. they didn't come here to sign-up for Medicaid,have the anchor child, food stamps and free ed. they came here cuz the had a dream. and god bless them, they succeeded. most illegals i'd venture to guess don't come here to be americans. we don't need illeglas, we need virtuous,skilled people movitated to be americans, to fight for the dream. if you've been to so cal, this is
      not the dream. this is the perpetual state of free stuff for illegalls. we call it the socialist state of California.
      viva la revulocion! amigos. drinks on the state woohoo!

      • Chezwick

        1) Your parents immigrated at a time when immigrants were expected to assimilate and join the work-force. Things are very different today, multiculturalism being the religion that it's become

        2) You're absolutely right, illegals DON'T come here to become Americans….they come here to earn money….which is why granting them citizenship would be such a mistake

        So you see Viktoria, my point is that amnesty would be wrong on so many levels, not the least of which is that once citizens, many of these current illegals will drop out of the workforce and opt for public assistance….and we'll find ourselves in the same old quandary….needing to bring in NEW illegals to do the jobs American citizens refuse to do.

        Up until the 1960s, illegal immigrants were needed for one thing only, agricultural workers. After Johnson's Great Society' and the advent of welfare, we needed them for a whole host of occupations previously performed by American citizens. The need for illegals won't end until the welfare state is dismantled and Americans are forced to work in order to survive. In the absence of mass expulsion, which will never occur due to political considerations, I'd much rather have the 12 million illegals currently here remain illegal and forced to scratch out a living than to become citizens and join the welfare rolls.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

          You are comparing apples and oranges.
          My grandfather immigrated legally with no one to support him and pride in his ability to work up in the world.

          And I've seen those illegals at hospitals. Every time they expect us to give them free care they spit on you (well, if you pay taxes) and show you they have no respect for the place they came to.

          • Chezwick

            Like Viktoria, you've missed my point completely. I don't want illegal immigrants here anymore than you do,….but I realize that as long as we have as generous a social safety-net as we do that de-motivates American citizens on the lowest rung of the economic ladder from working, there will be an irresistible magnetic pull bringing more and more illegals here.

            I'd rather the illegals currently living here remain illegal and compelled to work for a living….than to have them become citizens, drop out of the work-force by opting for a life on public assistance, and then becoming voters for the party of debt.

          • Chezwick

            To extrapolate further, what I'm postulating is the aspect of the illegal immigrant equation that nobody seems to want to acknowledge….the linkage between the need for illegals and the advent of the welfare state. Once upon a time, African American women from the inner cities took buses into the suburbs and worked as maids in the homes of suburbanites.

            Once welfare came into vogue in the mid 60s, they opted to stay home, have babies and abuse drugs and alcohol. Suddenly, there was a need for illegals to fill this particular job market. The same phenomenon occurred in many other fields, including hotel and restaurant workers, construction, etc.

            We can pass an amnesty law….and by granting citizenship to millions of illegals who will suddenly qualify for all manner of social welfare programs, we'll need a whole new crop of illegals to fill the newly created vacuum in the bottom rung of the labor force. Dismantling the entitlement state is the absolute prerequisite for weaning America off of illegal labor.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You miss our point.

            There is no need for illegals. There is a need for the legal immigration system to be working.

            When you make all illegals more legitimate than any real citizen, will you fire all the immigration workers and courts and officers and enforcement personnel?

          • Chezwick

            Roger,

            I'm not trying to "make all illegals more legitimate than any real citizen". I don't want illegals here anymore than you do. But I'm cognizant enough of the issue to understand that – for as long as American citizens can subsist on government hand-outs rather than work, there will be a continual need for illegal immigrants to fill the menial jobs that Americans refuse to do.

            Amnesty won't solve the issue….it'll just vastly expand the welfare rolls, creating the need for a new-round of illegal immigration to do the jobs that so many of the newly naturalized will reject doing. Conversely, dismantling the welfare state will compel citizens to either work or starve…..and this will be the point of return to the pre-Great Society labor paradigm….one that negated the need for illegals in every field but agricultural workers.

            In the meantime, short of mass expulsion, which we all know will never happen, I'd rather the illegals already here remain illegal than to be granted citizenship and become Democratic voters.

            Perhaps you feel differently?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You do want it. You have been defending it.
            And you aren't cognizant of the fact they are productive in very limited numbers and a drain on our resources in huge numbers.

            And I'm understanding that we need to stick to the welfare reform congress passed and that Obama by fiat (the definition of a dictator) decided to ignore.

            The problem isn't our open borders but the administration that ignores the rule of law and allows this to happen. E-verify could have arranged these folks to self deport. In the meantime expect your propagandist talking points to be challenged.

          • Chezwick

            Well friend, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

          • You Know Who

            roger will twist what you say around to further his agenda. He will then stalk you. Stay away from this troll.

          • UnctuousNarcissist

            “Just because we let them smelly fools ride us like goats don't mean we gotta let 'em brand us like goats. Maybe we ain't nothing but Muslims but we, by Allah, we ain't goats.“

            - WeeToddEdwards –

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Wee, you small little man.
            Did you ever find a way to cover up not having a visible neck? I'm worried that being such a distorted freak will leave you bitter and angry at life.

            Anyhow, why is it that you're coming here after you were banned and don't consider yourself a hostile troll / stalker?

          • EarlyBird

            Everyone you disagree with is a "stalker" or a "troll," you beady eyed little freak.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            And everyone you disagree with is what? Beady eyed?

            The fact is wee was banned and is here posting as a guest to get around it.

          • patriothere

            We all know that everybody that disagrees with you is a Muslim. How childish you are.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            When they're paid to post here and talk like this; it's likely.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You can disagree, but the facts speak for themselves.
            http://www.cis.org/High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor

          • Chezwick

            Well friend, your link makes it clear that it is next to impossible to gauge the extent to which illegal immigrants suppress wage inflation (and by extension, price inflation). It goes on to suggest that the effects are negligible. I beg to differ. I think that if by some miracle, all illegals were deported tomorrow, certain businesses – landscaping, painting, housekeeping, dishwashers, would have to DRAMATICALLY raise their wage offerings in order to attract replecement workers. It's clear to me that illegal immigration has effectively suppressed wage/price inflation in America for decades….which has been harmful to workers, and very beneficial to business and consumers.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Not really.

            Want to pretend this one is like that? http://www.cairco.org/issues/economic-costs-immig

            "As noted in the sections below, the economic costs of illegal immigration are staggering. Yet economists – and the mainstream media – tend to downplay and often completely ignore this impact. "

            Are you a spokesman for the Rubio office? You almost make as much sense as he does. The problem is that people have seen them use EBT cards for food, wait in line at the ER's and the attitude they use on Gringos. Unless you've ever been out in the southwest and dealt with them at supermarkets or fast food restaurants as they act passive aggressive towards all others, you don't know what it's like for those that do.

          • Chezwick

            Friend, I've been perfectly respectful to you….and you've repeatedly disparaged me by

            1) questioning my motives

            2) not accepting my word that I oppose illegal immigration in principle

            3) linking me to Rubio, who is a proponent of amnesty, when I've made it clear repeatedly that I'm opposed to amnesty

            4) insinuating that I don't know how illegals behave, when in fact I've been in close proximity to them for decades

            Now Roger, I'm giving you every benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume you're a really nice guy…and that this issue evokes a certain understandable emotion in you. Hopefully, we can wind this up amiably.

            I respect your opinion. I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If every illegal in America were expelled tomorrow, I think our crime rates would drop precipitously, I think our gov't programs would certainly save money,…and I think the English language that I love would get a demographic reprieve.

            All I'm saying is that the illegal immigration problem grew in direct correlation to the advent of the welfare state…and is an inevitable consequence of the welfare state.

          • Chezwick

            Sorry….I was interrupted by a skype.

            Lastly, I strongly believe that amnesty OR mass expulsion would have very real economic repercussions, principally, a wage/price inflationary spiral, particularly in low-wage services.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Chez, When you ignore all facts and pretend to have accurate guesses for the future I have to wonder if it's not facts you're here to debate, then what agenda are you here to push.
            So, yes I question your motive.
            I question your opposition to illegal immigrants when you keep laying out a false case supporting our need for them to be here.
            And yes when you defend legislation to make it possible to do the very things Rubio is pushing I link the two of you.
            And if you are in close proximity to the Mexican border you would know how they behave.

            Don't give me the benefit of the doubt, question and challenge everything I say, this is debate! And so far I've been the only one linking to anything factual.

            And why do we have to expel or deport anyone? Just use e-verify and if they don't like it they can leave the same way they came in. If the demand for them is so great, then perhaps this administration would make our system work to process applications instead of pushing towards collapse.

          • Chezwick

            "And yes when you defend legislation to make it possible to do the very things Rubio is pushing I link the two of you."

            You're a man of facts. Please identify any legislation I have "defended" that has anything to do with amnesty

          • Chezwick

            I eagerly await your reply.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You parrot his talking points.

            We have to do something.

            We can't send them all back.

            They do productive things and contribute.

            The country is founded on immigrants.

            How many do you want me to list?

          • Chezwick

            Rubio's talking points….

            "We have to do something."

            My position, clearly enunciated from the beginning of this thread, is to maintain the status quo. So, you are in error.

            "We can't send them all back."

            Even you have said as much ("why do we have to expel or deport anyone?").

            "They do productive things and contribute"

            There are millions of illegal immigrants employed in a variety of professions. To claim they DON'T contribute is a negation of reality.

            "The country is founded on
            immigrants."

            Even though true, nowhere in this entire thread did I make this point and, as far as I'm concerned, the point is irrelevant in terms of America's current situation. Once again, you are in error.

            Finally, on this thread alone, I have expressed my opposition to amnesty – the centerpiece of Rubio's legislative agenda – on at least 6 different occasions.

            So, it is clear by all objective criteria, that your assertion linking me to Rubio and his legislative agenda is DEMONSTRABLY false.

            I extended an olive branch of conciliation to you earlier…and you were completely dismissive ("don't give me the benefit of the doubt, question and challenge everything I say"). Well I have. And the man of facts obviously couldn't come to terms.

            Roger, I've come to realize that one can develop a true sense of the quality o the soul of one's interlocutors in the course of debate on these pages. I want to thank you for having given me the chance to get to know you. It's been an education.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Your position has been a tortured one.

            " Just look at the productivity difference between Latin-Americans who have arrived illegally over the past 20 years, those who build and maintain our houses, manicure our lawns, serve us at restaurants, and change the linen at our hotels…..and the Peurto Ricans citizens living in New York City who swell our welfare rolls."

            My position backed by links is that they suck our social systems dry now. For you to pretend they only come to work is a fallacy. Has the term anchor baby ever come up? They do use our social programs even while illegal. Obama has people recruiting for food stamps in Mexico.

            "Your parents immigrated at a time when immigrants were expected to assimilate and join the work-force. Things are very different today, multiculturalism being the religion that it's become…"
            The part of that I agree with is that today they don't come to join the workforce but to have anchor babies and get on social programs. And assimlation is the last thing on their minds.

            "my point is that amnesty would be wrong on so many levels, not the least of which is that once citizens, many of these current illegals will drop out of the workforce and opt for public assistance…." It's all ready happened.

            " In the absence of mass expulsion, which will never occur due to political considerations, I'd much rather have the 12 million illegals currently here remain illegal and forced to scratch out a living…"

            They came here on their own, why pretend they can't leave on their own? Why do you think the only way is for government to do it? E-verify them out and cut all social programs. Offer the anchor babies citizenship as adults and the right to return, when they can come back and provide for themselves.

            "…but I realize that as long as we have as generous a social safety-net as we do that de-motivates American citizens on the lowest rung of the economic ladder from working, there will be an irresistible magnetic pull bringing more and more illegals here.."

            So much for the illegals being her to work. A contradiction in argument, but then you have been all over on a lot of this.

            "…and by granting citizenship to millions of illegals who will suddenly qualify for all manner of social welfare programs, we'll need a whole new crop of illegals….

            No, not a new crop of illegals. We need our immigration system to actually work so that qualified law abiding immigrants get to fill the needs we have for newcomers. And the quota by region needs to be changed so that even white Europeans can once again have a chance to come. Why do we want all our immigrants to come from the worst of places?

            "But I'm cognizant enough of the issue to understand that – for as long as American citizens can subsist on government hand-outs rather than work, there will be a continual need for illegal immigrants to fill the menial jobs that Americans refuse to do. "

            That's why Newt passed welfare reform. And that's why Obama ignores the laws and wants to force more onto social programs. The problem is jobs are disappearing, the work force is shrinking. There are less jobs, and less demand for any worker whether legal or not. So, this argument doesn't meet reality very well.

            And this pretended need for illegals is why you sound like the gang of 8 on immigration and Rubio as he stumps for immigration reform.

          • Chezwick

            CHEZWICK: "Your parents immigrated at a time when immigrants were expected to assimilate and join the work-force. Things are very different today, multiculturalism being the religion that it's become."

            RESPONSE: And yet, you asserted that I "parroted" Rubios talking points that "This country is founded on immigrants." Can you ascertain the incongruity? I was obviously saying the opposite, that traditional patterns of immigration no longer apply.

            CHEZWICK: "…but I realize that as long as we have as generous a social safety-net as we do that de-motivates American citizens on the lowest rung of the economic ladder from working, there will be an irresistible magnetic pull bringing more and more illegals here.."

            ROGER: "So much for the illegals being her to work. A contradiction in argument, but then you have been all over on a lot of this."

            RESPONSE: You obviously missed my intent. The magnetic pull is precisely because Americans on the lowest rung don't have to do these menial jobs….so the illegals come to do them. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. It is a law of economics. So you see, my position was perfectly consistent.

            For the record, I support E-verify, but I have no illusions that it will put an end to the need for illegals. Employers whose businesses depend on menial labor but who can't find citizens to do those jobs will most certainly pay illegals cash under the table….as many do now.

            I reiterate, until we dismantle the entitlement state, there will be a need for illegal immigrants to do our menial jobs that citizens won't do. That's reality.

            There is certainly merit to many of your arguments, I'm rational enough and mature enough to concede that. for example, that illegals cost the government in services (but not to the extent to which non-productive citizens do). But how sad that you couldn't concede an ancillary point – insisting I support Rubio's legislative agenda, all evidence to the contrary, even though it wouldn't have undermined your over-all argument. Because it's not about an honest give-and-take and the exposition of truth, is it Roger? It's about ego…and not conceding you're wrong when you so obviously are.

            Well, you seem to me to be the type that has to get in the last word, so be my guest.. I'm done with you.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            So don't want illegals here but you aren't speaking out against Obama changing welfare reform (against the law as a dictator would). You say that we need them with one side of your mouth and then say you don't like them here with the other?

            You haven't even acted as if securing the border is a valid part of any solution or a lack of it as any part of the problem.

            That's about Rubio's position.

            Deflect and use nuances all you want.

          • EarlyBird

            Chez, you're too kind to Roger, and most everyone on this board. Roger in particular has never engaged in a conversation or exchange of opinion in good faith on this board. He's a twit, and actually not all that bright. He has the nerve to refer to himself as a "serious mind" in his profile.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            How would you know, you've never come here with facts that could be discussed in any good faith.

          • UncleSi

            Roger, you really are a beady little freak.

            Derp.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            You do that so well. Most trolls can't manage a decent derp.

          • UncleSi

            "A serious mind"?

            Like the old saying goes, "a mind is a serious thing to waste."

            Roger's is wasted.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            And you never had one.

            But then I'd be stooping to your level to just drop insults as I stagger past.

            You're such a strange one, what troll were you before you did an impersonation of uncle si?

          • patriothere

            Your grandfather doesn't agree with your right wing zionist troll talking points.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

            Really? He didn't like the idea of facing ellis island so that illegal aliens could be ushered in the back door by politicians that only wanted a cheap vote. He knew what DC considers cheap we work hard to pay for.

          • Defcon 4

            Freedom doesn't agree w/your islamofascist ideology.

    • Ghostwriter

      What fools like Chezwick and EarlyBirdbrain don't get is that it's not just many native-born Americans who are against amnesty. Legal immigrants themselves don't want it because the illegals cut in front of the line first and now make trouble for them. I wish they wise up first before they make fools of themselves.

  • daniel metz

    our bum for a president is more interested n keeping his democraps in power than the overall safety of Americans. by bringing in millions of Mexicans it assures him of votes, but the more people in a crowded community or city the more crime and it shows. obum and the democraps are willing to sacrifice lives and safety for votes.
    about an hour ago · Like

  • Herb Benty

    To say to these illegals, "go back to your own country and APPLY to enter America would be the Christian response. Mexico does not persecute it's people so there is no reason to be sneaking into the USA. Obama knows they will vote Demo so they are free to stream in unabated, however, America is BROKE, so when does the you know what hit the fan?? Canadians sneaking across the border are sent back imediately as we are mostly right -wingers ( which explains Obama not approving KeystoneXL- an oil resourse bigger than Saudi Arabia's right beside you…ie., 2-3 $ a gallon for gas and lasting around 100 YEARS!!! But then Americans would be prosperous and free to pursue happiness, however, that makes a person useless to Obama's Progressives…. Obama NEEDS sad, angry and poor people.

  • Jim

    Perhaps the new type Christian Boss is thinking of his over flowing Offering box.

    Will the New Christian Boss continue the Old Christian Boss tradition of attacking Israel?

  • Deborah Hudson

    Dear Rev. David Uth
    I think you're being called out and need to explain your position. I know the Orange Co. / Polk area are filled w/ immigrants in the groves, so just out of kind curiosity, where do you stand?

  • slider 96

    You teebaggers are a joke . Biting each other at every turn . Keep up the good work , you are alienating some of the last groups that actually support your strange convoluted cause . And with ideologues like Blimpy Limbaugh, Weepy-boy Beck and foul-mouthed bigot and racist Coulter, I suspect you'll be a third party by 2016 .
    It's a good thing for you Ann, that you have a decent supply of suckers to buy your B.S. books . About 8% of Americans , not much , but enough to keep you in the money for quite some time .

    • ratonis

      Gee. You really sound intelligent.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNn2YflwNs Roger

        He's from the party that doesn't allow dissent, so he's unprepared to evaluate it.

    • UnctuousNarcissist

      tea

      • slider 96

        No it's tee , when applied to screwballs , and racists like Coulter .

        • Alinsky Hero USA

          Pheww! For a minute, I thought you were serious and then I realized you're just aphasic.

  • Questions

    Ann Coulter fails to grasp that Christianity, by its nature, downplays, if not abjures the very idea of the nationhood. That's why you get evangelicals on the Right (Ralph Reed, Gary Bauer, etc.) who also are gung-ho for amnesty. Also, the whole idea of pro-amnesty Christians being "impostors" is a copout, a variation on the "no true Scotsman" philosophical fallacy. Of course, they're Christians. They're also very wrong about the nature of immigration.

    • Looking4Sanity

      BS. Complete and total.

      • Questions

        What's your theory, then, Mr. Sanity? Rare indeed is any Christian, Right or Left, who makes an articulate case — indeed, any case — against Third World mass immigration. If it's BS you're looking for, there's the place to look. If it's total BS you're looking for, there's always your own bathroom mirror. Take a look sometime.

    • EarlyBird

      Ironically since W. Bush's term, evangelicals have been been removing themselves from the loud public stances which epitomized the Religious Right under Falwell, et al. They realized they were corrupting their own faith and churches and turning them into nationalist/political movements. While remaining good citizens who vote their conscience and voice their opinions, they've decided they were becoming too much "of the world" and not just "in it."

      This is a good development for Christianity. It's a bad development for the right wing haters on this board, the Coulters, Limbags, and filth which make up so much of the right wing propaganda industry.

      Consider garbage like Looking4Sanity as one example, who prefers the mass murders of children in Newtown to the actions of gun control advocates, and whose profile glorifies combat (as if he's ever been near it), having the nerve to discuss anything about Jesus Christ.

  • Texas Catholic

    People aren’t leaving the Church, the Church has left them.

  • cynthia curran

    You teebaggers are a joke . Biting each other at every turn . Keep up the good work , you are alienating some of the last groups that actually support your strange convoluted cause . And with ideologues like Blimpy Limbaugh, Weepy-boy Beck and foul-mouthed bigot and racist Coulter, I suspect you'll be a third party by 2016 .
    It's a good thing for you Ann, that you have a decent supply of suckers to buy your B.S. books . About 8% of Americans , not much , but enough to keep you in the money for quite some time . Your problem is HIspanics have never been a Republican group, if you are a liberal you should be interested in the fact that wages for construcation workers were driven down by George W Bush who supported business using illegal immirgants to drive down wages. This is not a left-right issue but has to do with the elite of the left and right supporting legalization of people either for business interest Republicans or voting Democratics.

  • cynthia curran

    Also, a better approach instead of gradually legalizing everyone wold be to manidate e-veirfy and make certain that gurestworkers don't overstay their vistas. No more than 5 years on a work vista in the country for the farmwork and maidwork and so forth.

    • EarlyBird

      We need to : a.) physically secure the border; b.) drop the hammer on employers who hire illegals and c.) get the illegals who are here above board – not necessarily automatically make them citizens. In that order.

      Any fantasy about deporting all 11 million of them is just that, a fantasy. And it's a fantasy promoted by the Republican Party which doesn't WANT to fix immigration, because their corporate constituents enjoy cheap labor the way things are now.

      So they fire up their base, as epitomized by the idiots on this board, to demand a fantasy – the deportation of 11 million human beings – and nothing less in the name of "principle!" because that will result in Congressional gridlock and no solution, i.e., the status quo.

  • slider 96

    Evolved morality ingredients are ;

    1. Empathy and consolation
    2. Pro-social tendencies
    3. Reciprocity and fairness.
    These qualities are even found in chimpanzees yet the denizens here are devoid of either of the two main pillars of morality Reciprocity and Empathy .