GOP to Obama: Keep Holding America Hostage

Obama-Speech-Drone-Policy-medA deal ending the government shutdown was reached late last night when the Republican-controlled House approved a proposed package sent by the Democrat-led Senate. Democratic congressional leaders and pundits everywhere are declaring the event a victory for the president and the Democratic Party, as they claim credit for preventing a mythical government default and stabilizing the market. In reality, the GOP’s surrender has only made it seem doubtful that the party can intervene in a serious way to liberate Americans held hostage to the Democratic spending binge. Meanwhile, the Democrats have announced they will not negotiate. They will not be reasoned with. They will except nothing less than complete submission as they rob the public blind and push us toward fiscal oblivion.

To recap, the deal calls for re-opening the government with a stopgap spending bill that runs to January 15. The government’s borrowing authority would be extended until at least February 7. It requires both the House and the Senate to name budget negotiators, who will have a December 13 deadline to reach an agreement on a budget for FY2014. And in the one concession granted by Democrats to Republicans, those seeking subsidies under the new healthcare bill will have to have their incomes verified.

That Democrats consider it a concession to require someone to prove his income is low enough to qualify for a taxpayer subsidized insurance premium provides a valuable insight into the progressive view of the free-for-all public trough. Prior to this concession, the Obama administration was willing to rely on the honor system, and “accept the applicant’s attestation [regarding eligibility] without further verification” until 2015. Why wouldn’t Democrats be concerned with the possibility of gaming the system? Because as long as that system fosters greater levels of government dependency, Democrats are all for it. And they are for it irrespective of the costs and by inviting people to defraud the government.

However, this small victory of income verification for the GOP pales in comparison to the almost $17 trillion of national debt that, along with ObamaCare, was the principal driver behind the current shutdown. In Obama’s term alone, spending has increased nearly $6 trillion. Approximately half of every dollar spent by the government is borrowed. At present pace, the debt will exceed $20 trillion by Obama’s last year in office, 2016 (with almost $10 trillion alone overseen by the president by then). According to a Harvard study, if every working American had to pay off what this nation currently owes, each one would have to come up with $123,000. Every living American — man, woman and child — would be forced to pony up $53,000. Already to service the interest on the debt, Americans pay $237 billion every year, or nearly $3,000 for every taypaying household. By 2022, taxpayers will be responsible for $1 trillion per year in interest alone.

Yet at every turn, congressional Democrats, led by President Obama, have not only defended, but have zealously guarded this status quo. Previous threats of government shutdown have resulted in meaningless reforms at best. The president himself has categorically ignored his bipartisan Simpson-Bowles commission, whose recommendations call for reforms to discretionary spending and budget behemoths Medicare and Social Security. Though the president and Democrats have spent ample time since 2008 engaging in aggressive class warfare political campaigns and calls for spending more and more taypayer money, they have spent no time championing these Simpson-Bowles reforms, even though the plan calls for raising tax revenue.

Leaving aside the most budget-consuming federal programs, which will take massive political will on both sides to address, the Left has been unwilling to consider reforming even the most absurd examples of government spending insanity. A study by the Cato Institute confirmed that for a mother and two children enrolled in a typical mix of seven common welfare programs, the median value of that package is $28,500. Since that value is untaxed, one would have to find a job at a considerably higher salary just to break even. The federal government currently spends $688 billion funding 126 separate anti-poverty programs of which 72 provide cash or other benefits directly to poor families. From 1965 to 2008, a Heritage Foundation study reveals that the total spent only on means tested welfare for the poor in 2008 dollars had reached nearly $16 trillion, more than twice what we have spent on every military conflict from the American Revolution through today. And what we have to show for it is a poverty rate that remains stuck at 15 percent, and a record-breaking 46.5 million Americans mired below the poverty line.

The Democrats’ consistent (and only) response to the spending madness has been that the rich need “paid their fair share” and that taxes need to be raised. However, the top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70 percent of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the last year for which figures are available. The remaining 90 percent accounted for 30 percent of the take, while approximately 47 percent of Americans pay virtually no income taxes at all. According to the IRS, two percent of Americans earn $250,000 or more. If Congress taxed them at a rate of 100 percent, it would yield $1.4 trillion. Confiscating all of the corporate profits from the entire list of Fortune 500 companies would yield another $400 billion. Confiscating every bit of wealth from America’s 400 billionaires would yield another $1.4 trillion. Total take? $3.2 trillion.

Thus, reality is stark. Absent real and sustained reductions in spending, the middle class will bear an enormous tax increase to bring America back to anything resembling fiscal sanity. That would be the same middle class whose incomes have declined 4.4 percent since the so-called recovery began in 2009. Record numbers of Americans are receiving food stamps, and collecting disability payments, underwritten by working Americans who comprise the lowest workforce participation rate in 35 years. A staggering 75 percent of jobs created in 2013 were part time. By 2012, the Federal Reserve was buying 61 percent of the government debt issued by the Treasury Department.

Moreover, our last debt ceiling crisis occurred in May of 2011, when we reached a debt limit of $14.3 trillion. Two years and seven months later, we’ve hit a new debt ceiling of $16.7 trillion. In other words, despite all the revenue the federal government has collected in taxes over that same time period, including a record-setting $2.47 trillion for 2013, the government has blown through an additional $2.4 trillion of borrowed money.

Which brings us to late yesterday, when the Senate finally voted 81-18 to essentially raise the debt ceiling yet again, and make sure that yet another gargantuan debt-driving entitlement plan known as ObamaCare–whose original cost estimated has nearly tripled–remains unscathed. The debt ceiling bit was a clever gambit conceived by Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY). It allows Congress to disapprove of an increase in a formal vote between now and February 7. If they do, Obama can veto that legislation, thus requiring a two-thirds majority to override that veto–meaning it’s a done deal the debt ceiling will be raised. Let the taxpayer money flow.

Thus, we have President Obama and Democrats’ “great victory.” “The country came to the brink of a disaster,” said Sen. Harry Reid.  “But in the end, political adversaries set aside their differences and disagreement to prevent that disaster.” Rest assured nothing has been prevented, only postponed until a later date — and the disaster is not behind us, but on the horizon.

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  • 20pizzapies

    Cruz and the Tea party own the shutdown ,and both are now in the toilet . How to fix the economy ? Destroy it . Big Fail for the Republican Party . BTW- if the figure of 20 trillion by 2016 does happen to come to pass ….10 trillion of it was created by 8 years of GW .

    • gerry

      T%he only thing in the toilet is the country.It will be more in the toilet in December.

      • 20pizzapies

        Not really , after Cruz’s disgrace , Tea party will be flushed , like it should be .

        • ziggy zoggy

          You morons have been saying that for five years now.

    • 8ball

      You are a liar.
      _______________________________________________________
      The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.

      The latest posting from the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department shows the National Debt now stands at $15.566 trillion. It was $10.626 trillion on President Bush’s last day in office, which coincided with President Obama’s first day.
      ________________________________________________________
      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/

      This was as of March 2012. Obama has added another 1.5 trillion to the debt since then.

      Obama is the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. He is an incompetent thug.

      • 20pizzapies

        revisionism goes hand in hand with Teabags .

    • nomoretraitors

      Not that I absolve the Republicans of their part in our fiscal mess, but Obama created more debt in 4 years than Bush did in 8.
      Furthermore, Obama said during the ’08 campaign that using a “credit card from the Bank of China” and passing the bill on to “our children and grandchildren” was “irresponsible” and “unpatriotic. So by his own definition, he’s irresponsible and unpatriotic.

      • Salen Stormwing

        Because we all know that it’s the President is the one who sets the budgetary purse-strings and not the House or Senate. Oh wait.

        You see, the funny thing about those 4 years, a lot of those expenses came from laws signed into law by GW. So, if you’re obligated, by law, to continue to fund a law, you can’t very well write it out without Congressional force. Which is why you had the huge fight over Bush era tax cuts. Remember those, that fight we had within the last year, because they were going to sunset, but Republicans were opposed to letting them sunset because “they’d hurt Americans”….

        Anyways, if fiscal laws were all annulled after each President, you could then blame Obama for what debt he’s racked up, but that’s not the way the game is played. Laws get passed, and people put in rules to say they won’t disappear till X date, and then they keep on renewing them.

        Just accept its ALL our fault.

        • reader

          No, under Article 1, it’s the Congress that has the power of the purse.

          • reader

            …so, the Congress is not obligated to fund the law, because this clause is there in the Constitution for a reason. It’s called check and balances. The House members voting for Obamacare were kicked out of the Congress exactly for doing so.

          • Salen Stormwing

            You don’t understand sarcasm, do you? You see, that’s the point. While the President can offer a budget request, Congress, both House and Senate, is left up to the task of actually making a Budget.

          • reader

            yeah, yeah. sarcasm, schmarcasm. Marxists have a monopoly on self-contradiction by calling it dialectics. Obama’s side kick is dirty Harry, who never had any intent to pass the budget. how clever. excuse me, how sarcastic.

        • ziggy zoggy

          More stupid lies from a serial liar. Both stimulus “packages” and all the huge cash boondoggles since 2009 have originated from the 0.

          Just accept that it’s all HIS fault.

    • Charles Martel

      Now I am going to be nice here and only call you a fu$&ing moron instead of a damn liar. Your remarks being false is either ignorant, arrogant, or you are ill informed like the majority of our modern American voters.

      It doesn’t really matter. You have won, but we have all lost.

      • Salen Stormwing

        BOEHNER: “But I and my members decided the threat of Obamacare and what
        was happening was so important that it was time for us to take a stand.
        And we took a stand.”

        John Boehner on “This Week”. So… you’re saying the Republican’s didn’t own the Shutdown? Or is this where I get downvoted because I have proof and not just blind hatred?

        • ziggy zoggy

          “Stand” = “shutdown?” Stop using the Ret@rd Standard Dictionary.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Stop making up new words to try and validate your point.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Stop sending emails at 3: AM asking to tea bag me.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Now you’re resorted to just being a jerk. I won’t even call you a typical Republican. I’m sure quite a few Republicans would be okay with women voting, even their moms.

            You don’t like me, that’s fine. But stop hating women.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Stupid anti-white racist. Stupid misandrist. (Oh no! can you find a dictionary that can provide the definition?) Anti-Christian bigot. Xenophobe.

            How many groups do you hate? Tell the truth. You hate all Republican women, “minorities,” gays and transgenders (whatever those are supposed to be.)

            Truth. It’s like hemlock to you intolerant lefties.

      • 20pizzapies

        Don’t be nice , you can’t be nice and STUPID at the same time . Yes YOU ALL have lost , and the American people , approximately 2 million or so got screwed , the US lost about 24billion , because instead of doing their jobs , like paying bills where they were already OWED , you “all ” decided to put a gun to the nations head over Obamacare . You are just as phony as Shapiro in that you claim your gripe is to cut spending , but your whole battle was made quite clear and PUBLICLY , that the goal of the shutdown was to DEFUND OBAMACARE . BIG FAIL . You achieved nothing .

        • ziggy zoggy

          20pigsties,

          Two million scumbag parasites MAY have had there paychecks delayed, and the government never earned the 24 billion you’re whining about. You got your welfare payments, so why do you care?

          And nobody here was involved with the shutdown, you moron.

          • 20pizzapies

            that’s two million more votes that you Tea party morons burned away . Good attitude though , for an IQ of 60 .

          • ziggy zoggy

            Government parasites already vote Dem, you moron. They want the welfare to keep coming.

            And what about that paltry 24 billion we saved? Are you still angry because Obama didn’t get to waste it? He wastes 10 billion every day, so he’s already made up for it. You should be happy as you swirl down with your EBT benefits as a life raft. You’ll have something to clutch when you go under.

            You’re lucky stupidity isn’t fatal, or you would have a terminal case.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Cruz and the Tea Party are more popular than ever. The only people who hate them are the scumbags who’ve always hated them. The idiot Republicans who voted with the Democrat wastrels are out of touch with their constituents. There will probably be more than a few Tea Party candidates elected next year.

      • 20pizzapies

        don’t count on it . just let Cruz keep on running his mouth about another shutdown like he is doing now and see where it gets the tea-dirt-bags .

        • ziggy zoggy

          It has already got the DNC Baggers in Congress an eight percent approval rating and your Obamessiah a thirty seven percent rating – and those ratings are highly inflated.

          Welcome to the real world.

  • foolonthehill

    Mr Ahlert obviously understands neither the definition of “hostage” nor the basic mechanisms of Democracy.

    The majority of Americans voted for Obama and his agenda, giving the Obama administration a democratic mandate to push its agenda.

    The majority of Americans did not vote for the Republican Party and its agenda and certainly not for the GOP’s minority Tea Party and its agenda.

    For the minority GOP’s minority Tea Party to now push its exclusive minority agenda through threatend disruption of the majorities basic public services and the nations financial integrity more than fulfills the definition of hostage taking and also blackmail.

    • gerry

      Obama was reelected and sowas Mugabe!

      • Salen Stormwing

        Because being reelected puts you in the same league as Mugabe… Nice perspective you have there.

        • truebearing

          Non sequitur conclusion, as usual.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Standard downvotes, because the truth hurts?

          • ziggy zoggy

            Strawman down votes for attempted sophistry. Gerry compared Osama and Mugabe’s voter fraud, not their character.

            I don’t mind making that comparison, though. Obangi would be just as murderous to dissenters and Whites if he could. All leftists are frustrated murderers at heart – except for the mass shooters in America and the dictators abroad that Obamahdi admires so much.

    • tagalog

      Thank you for saying “Tea Party” and not the other.

    • 8ball

      America elected both a Democrat President and a Republican House. The latter have every right to fight for fiscal sanity. No hostages were taken and the language used to attack those who are being responsible about spending is demagogic, as was Obama’s threat of default.

      • Salen Stormwing

        America also elected a Democratic Senate. They have every right to fight fiscal hostage taking by the House just as much as the House. And it wasn’t even the Republican House, but the Tea Party trying to run the show in the house.

        PS: Lots of demagoguery on both sides. Heck, I’m pretty sure Ted Cruz had 21 hours of it by himself. So yeah, stop blaming one side exclusively.

        • Robert_Fl

          I venture to say that if the ENTIRE Senate were up for re-election (instead of just one third), the result would have been different. Could you please cite even one example of Cruz being demagogic? Ted Cruz merely had the audacity to carry out the wishes of the people who elected him…unheard of in DC. In addition, Cruz, Lee, et.al. are certainly smart enough to know that obamacare was not going to be defunded at the present time. The goal was to bring it to the forefront for discussion…I would say they succeeded. But you keep believing the media and using Dem talking points with terms such as “hostage taking” if it makes you feel better. Check out the Constitution and see which body of Congress has the authority to appropriate funds. Hint: It’s not the Senate and it’s not the President. So who was holding whom hostage? It should be obvious to anyone with the ability of critical thinking that obama and the Dems engineered the shutdown because they knew that the lapdog media would carry their water for them. How do you defend statements such as “I shouldn’t have to give anything” or “I will not negotiate”? Please name the Republicans responsible for shutting down monuments that cost virtually nothing to operate, or who denied death benefits for our military families.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Blaming everything that’s wrong with America on Obama care… not demagoguery? Come on, you know it is.

            As for who started it… come on, it was Boehner. There was a whole deal for a clean CR, and Boehner and his associates decided they weren’t going to go with it. Oh, you don’t believe he said that? That’s fine, I’ll support my facts with video proof. Just go to 2:20. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-8-2013/the-shutdown-blame-game

            You want to cry me a river about how horrible the shutdown was, fine, at least take responsibility for who did what.

          • Robert_Fl

            Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I did not blame everything that is wrong with the country on obamacare, and I do not think that a shutdown of 17% of the government was a problem at all. I notice that you have not addressed any of my questions.

          • Salen Stormwing

            I question your reading comprehension. I answered your question on what Cruz did that was demagoguery just fine. It wasn’t that YOU said it, but Cruz. It’s demagoguery, and you know it.

            Addressing all your questions would be a lot easier… with paragraphs. Before you question reading comprehension, try working on your writing comprehension.

          • truebearing

            You don’t know the meaning of the words you babble forth.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Awww, come on, just confess. It’s demagoguery. It won’t hurt to call it what it is. It won’t bite you if you call it what it is.

          • ziggy zoggy

            It wasn’t demagoguery and it wasn’t the point – as you know.

            Cruz represented the interests of the American majority, the House is responsible for all revenue raising bills and funding, Valerie Jarrett planned the phony shutdown Obamarx carried out, the Monostream media promoted the fiction of a Republican shutdown, and Obama spent more money to close federal properties than it would have cost to keep them open.

            It hurts to admit the truth when you’re a leftroll. It must hurt to think too, because you can’t do that either.

          • ziggy zoggy

            You dodged the truth again. You leftists really are afraid of facts. That says all we need to know about your repulsive ideology. You always have to lie and misrepresent it if you want to sway honest and rational people to the dark side. Too bad you morons lie so poorly.

            Troll attempt to ignore facts and misdirect the thread: DENIED.

            Obama owned the phony shutdown.

          • tagalog

            What I learned from the shutdown is that Wall Street seemed to be doing OK during it, and that the government needs commerce more than commerce needs the government.

            The other thing I learned from the shutdown is 1. life seemed to go on pretty much unchanged for ordinary Americans, and 2. when the government is shut down, they can’t do any more harm to us. I like gridlock too.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Obviously, the Republicans in the House of Representatives didn’t fully agree with you on your beliefs last night.

          • tagalog

            Well, that’s OK, they’re entitled to their view of things, and I’m entitled to mine.

          • Salen Stormwing

            That’s one thing we can both agree on.

          • ziggy zoggy

            What about his decision to buy insurance other than Obamacare, you lying sack of $hit?

          • ziggy zoggy

            The House did agree with him. The dumbest Republicans just thought they would be blamed for Obama’s shutdown and lose votes in their next elections.

          • reader

            Obamacare IS demagoguery from start to finish. Everything Obama said about it is a lie. In fact, it has nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with the backdoor way to subvert the constitutional limits on the federal government. Cruz is 100% correct, and you are projecting, as all Obama drones do to the best of their abilities. You’re ok, most of your peers here are outright morons. You must be working for the feds.

          • Salen Stormwing

            By asking people to buy health insurance, or pay a small penalty fee, that’s subverting the constitutional limits of the federal government.

            You do know that the Supreme Court actually okay’d the law, saying it wasn’t going against the laws of the government, right?

            There’s a lot of projecting going on, but I’m pretty sure it’s not me on this one. But hey, it’s all good. I’m just trying to be a voice of reason. And no, I don’t work for the feds.

          • reader

            Yeah, the Holy Supreme Court has okay’d slavery. This is just another kind of slavery. Obamacare is an obvious path to the single provider system and ultimately the new way of eugenics, when bureaucrats sitting in federal offices making decisions that doctors should do when attending patients. Obama lied about it when he said that it was not what’s he up to, but his cronies like Sunstein can’t keep it to himself – he’s so excited.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Just… wow. Listen, you might want to take this time to look into your health coverage, and look into getting a nice psychologist to talk with. You obviously have a lot of anxiety issues and misplaced anger. Professional help really might be a good thing for you. It’ll probably help lower your blood pressure by at least 20 points.

          • reader

            oh, ok. so what exactly is giving up my anger? the facts? you can just point out which of them are not the case: is it that Supreme Court never upheld slavery (Dred Scott decision) or is it not true that Sunstein bragged about the path to single care provider system and dead panels, or is it that under even now – before the full implementation has taken place – medical decision making is not being shifted to bureaucrats away from the doctors?

          • ziggy zoggy

            Says the pathological liar with suicidal tendencies. You need mental help if you think a troll like you will be a member of the elite in a centralized one party government. You won’t even be necessary.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Forcing people to purchase ANYTHING is a subversion of the Constitution. Insurance has always been Constitutionally illegal.

            Citing the Supreme a court has been a DNC slogan and straw man since day one. It does nothing to address the fact that the Obamaburo doesn’t care about healthcare. It only cares about public dependency and centralized power.

            The Supreme Court ruled that women can commit infanticide due to a fictitious right to privacy, that Whites and Asians can be persecuted in colleges and employment, and oh yeah………..those ret@rded freaks Sotomayor and Kagan are justices. America is in good hands. Bwah

            Thanks for giving all involved the opportunity to refute your assigned and pasted Obama talking points. Most people who read these comments never post any, but they get the benefit of seeing Obama and you Obamtons as the sleazy, power mad scum you are.

          • ziggy zoggy

            She is definitely a DNC or Obamatroll. And we thought Obamacare was an ineffective waste of our money!

          • JMW

            The important question is why are the congress and senate using CRs to continue the debt spending. Why not pass a balanced budget? So that we don’t continue to kick the can down the road concerning our debt bomb. Oh well, spending is what gets the dems elected and reelected so it’s all good I guess… the heck with our children and grandchildren. Live for today!!

          • Salen Stormwing

            I agree, we should have a balanced budget. With some actual negotiations. Civil negotiations. What we get is anything but… so yeah… that’s why we keep getting CRs.

            Don’t worry, I won’t mention how Congress hid both wars by not putting them in the budget but instead put them in special funding, so they could pass their budgets during W’s presidency.

          • ziggy zoggy

            You can’t support the 0′s unlimited spending and refusal to cooperate with Republicans while you also pretend to want civil negotiations. It is contradictory. It is stupidly ……..leftist.

            Stupid Moby troll, still posing as a centrist.

          • ziggy zoggy

            If you’re being paid to beat off straw men, you earned your troll paycheck, but if you’re paid to win debates and embarrass conservatives, you’re going to be eating ramen noodles next month.

            Nobody blamed the Fraud in Chief for EVERYTHING wrong with America or cried about the unsustainable “shutdown.” (The public wasn’t going to put up with his games indefinitely.)

            Your assigned talking points can’t counter Robert’s facts. You Obamatons are incapable of critical thought. That’s good enough for government work – especially when you troll for the Totalitarian in Chief and the Dems. 3:)

        • Charles Martel

          Can you name something Obama or the democrats in the senate were willing to compromise on? Who was holding who hostage?

          Weren’t the tea party members also democratically elected?

          • Salen Stormwing

            Oh, so there wasn’t a deal for a Clean CR before the shutdown, and then Boehner decided to not go forward with it? Oh wait… there was. He even admitted as much. 2:20. Enjoy being wrong. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-8-2013/the-shutdown-blame-game

          • ziggy zoggy

            And how we’re Obama and the Dems willing to Compromise” on a ” clean CR?”

            Enjoy being a liar.

          • Salen Stormwing

            They had a DEAL already. You don’t negotiate something that’s already been negotiated. You either keep your word, or you don’t. If they didn’t like the deal the first time, why did they agree to it?!?

            Enjoy being oblivious to reality.

          • ziggy zoggy

            There was no deal and the point is an irrelevant attempt at troll misdirection.

            According to you, it was the Republicans who offered to compromise, and not the Democrats or their boy king. YOU FUCKING MORON.

            Being a leftist means never having to face reality.

          • trickyblain

            The issue was about one thing – the ACA. I don’t like all of the provisions — especially the individual mandate — but there is no denying that the law was passed through the legal channels and upheld by the Supreme Court. It is law, like it or not. Why should the Dems be compelled to “compromise” on something that has been law since 2010?

          • gerry

            What legal channel.Was presented as a jhealthcare law and passed as a tax.This law is a tax.Quite clear.

          • ziggy zoggy

            The phony shutdown was not based on one thing but youroint would be irrelevant anyway. The House is not required to fund Obamacare and Congress can rescind it at any time.

            The “law of the land” meme is just a slogan.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            “law of the land”, like Prohibition.

          • tagalog

            If there’s one thing that Obama and the Senate were crystal clear about, it’s that they weren’t going to negotiate, that it was going to be their way or default.

            They stood eyeball-to-eyeball with the Republicans, and the Republicans blinked. Oh well, the nice thing about politics is that there’s always a next time.

          • Salen Stormwing

            You got that wrong… You see… there was a clean Government resolution that was agreed to with Boehner and the House, but then they turned it down. Here’s his quote on that, when questioned on “This Week”.

            BOEHNER: But I and my members decided the threat of Obamacare and what was happening was so important that it was time for us to take a stand. And we took a stand.

            Now, if you ask me, the ones who were saying “This is what we want and we won’t negotiate for it” was Boehner. They owned the shutdown, and they blinked only because they were about to drive the country off a financial cliff of debt ceilings.

            Let’s hope there’s more sense next time, instead of deciding brinkmenship is the only way to negotiate with someone.

          • tagalog

            Well, of course there were those repeated statements from Obama and Harry Reid such as “I’m not negotiating,” and “Why would we negotiate? We’re winning” over the past couple of weeks that kind of get in the way of your claim being credible.

            Those statements taken together with compromise proposal after compromise proposal made by the House, led by Boehner, all turned down flat by Obama and Reid. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good fantasy, especially when so many have brainwashed themselves into agreeing with your position?

          • Salen Stormwing

            Because if you listened to the second half of what he said, it was “…until we get a clean CR and past the debt ceiling”, you’d realize you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

            You keep forgetting that part.

          • tagalog

            The “making a mountain out a molehill” thingie is coming from you. You were the person who has gone off on that, not me or trickyblaine or Charles Martel.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Okay, so you’re going to ignore what the President said, for what you don’t want to remember him saying. Yeah. I’m glad we’re having a grown-up discussion on government financing here. I understand you don’t want the President to be right, but that doesn’t mean it is.

          • ziggy zoggy

            The boy King said he wouldn’t open key government services that he had closed to punish Americans and demonize the Republicans until………he got what he wanted, which he claimed was “a clean CR and past the debt ceiling.”

            According to your comment. Of course he always wanted much more than that.

          • tagalog

            It’s funny that you keeping harping on “having a grown-up discussion” when the thrust of your posts is essentially “neener neener, it’s all your fault.”

          • Salen Stormwing

            Establishing what actually happened is hardly “Neener Neener”. You keep rewriting history to prove your point, and I keep pointing out, no, that’s not what happened. Hard to have this discussion when you can’t agree even on what actually happened.

          • tagalog

            I haven’t been rewriting history and I defy you to point a single example from this exchange or any other I’ve been involved in where I’ve done so.

          • Salen Stormwing

            “Well, of course there were those repeated statements from Obama and Harry Reid such as “I’m not negotiating,””

            You said that, but refused to acknowledge the second part of his statement that “…until a Clean CR was passed.” You’re editing history right there. They said they’d negotiate those issues, but not before a clean CR and the debt ceiling issues were taken care of.

            Is that good enough? Or does that not count as rewriting history?

          • ziggy zoggy

            He only mentioned a clean CR once and it changes nothing. “No negotiation until you do things exactly the way I say.” Typical left-wing doublespeak.

            Deceit is all you troll punching bags have to offer.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Oh boo hoo, did someone realize that I was speaking the truth? Typical. You just want to deny facts.

          • ziggy zoggy

            “No negotiation until you do things exactly the way I say.”

            That’s the same kind of blackwhite nonsense as your idiotic comment.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Lefty attempt at projection: DENIED.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Lefty attempt to claim all moderate opposition to Obama’s destructive policies is personal and “racist:” DENIED.

          • Salen Stormwing

            When did I claim that? Now you’re just making stuff up. I mean, you’re not even trying to be factual at this point.

          • ziggy zoggy

            You did it in your last comment, $hit stain. Rational and honest people “don’t want (Obama) to be right.” Our opposition to his destructive policies are personal and the implication is that the personal is based on anti-Black racism. That is the DNC/Obama meme you are paid to troll.

            So please do. Tell us why decent people HATE Obama’s guts.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Obama and the Dems refused every bill that came from the House and closed down key government services until they got their way. Those are the irrefutable facts.

            If you support the Democrat party’s blackmail of the public so it could gain political power, just admit it. Stop lying about who caused the phony shutdown and why.

            Nobody here is stupid enough to believe the DNC/Media narrative.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Ah, but there was already an agreement, which Boehner and friends decided to abandon. There was a bill, the House Republicans were the one that said “yes” before they said “no”. That’s called a Flip-Flop.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Obviously, nobody agreed to anything back then and stop trying to change the subject, trolltard.

            Jarrett planned the shutdown to blame Republicans and Obama gleefully carried it out by punishing Americans who wanted to use their federal land.

            Attempt to ignore all facts and change the subject: DENIED.

            Attempt to use “flip-flop” term against Republicans: DENIED.

          • Salen Stormwing

            I’m sorry, but you’re wrong, and no matter what you say, you’ll still be wrong.

          • ziggy zoggy

            I’m disgusted, but you’re a liar and no matter what you write you’ll still be an easily discredited, lying sack of $hit. =D

        • Omar

          Why do you always complain about the Tea Party? How about the massive influence that George Soros, Kalle Lasn and their Occupy Wall Street movement have on President Obama and some of the Democrats in power today.

          • Salen Stormwing

            I didn’t complain about the Tea Party. I just said they were the ones who got kicked to the side when Boehner pulled the steering wheel to avoid going off the fiscal cliff. Unless you mean me saying Ted Cruz. Is he the whole Tea Party now?

            Also, Occupy Wall Street still influences the President? The hell? That was almost a year ago that they did anything. Uh, have you been recently thawed out of your cryo tube hidden inside your Doomsday Bunker?

        • ziggy zoggy

          When you rant about hostages and the Tea Party you lose even the illusion of credibility.

          Ted Cruz tried to limit government waste. He represented the people’s will by opposing Obamacare, which is detested by the majority of America and clearly a terrible program.

          So yeah, stop excusing one side exclusively.

      • foolonthehill

        What we missed was Republicans fighting for fiscal sanity under Bush.

        • 8ball

          How many budgets has Obama presented in his 5 years in office and how many votes of approval have those budgets received from Congress? I know the answers. Do you?

          • Salen Stormwing

            Budgets presented by the President are a framework in the best of times, not an actual bill, seeing as it’s a budget request. It’s up to Congress to actually do the hard work of actually making a budget, since they have the authority of the purse strings. Which is how we ended up in this situation in the first place…

            Here’s a refresher on how the Budget Process works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_process

          • 8ball

            It’s not surprising that you so you avoided my question given the fact Obama has received exactly no support for his 2 budgets. No support even from his own party.

          • Robert_Fl

            If you look through this comment section, you will see that Salen does not answer questions, and is incapable of carrying on a coherent discussion. He/she is merely a spewer of Dem talking points and non sequiturs. I have stopped replying.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Not dodging the question, just figured you didn’t want me to give you the link to every Budget from 1996 to 2014: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionGPO.action?collectionCode=BUDGET

            The fact is, you’re distorting the process to make it seem like Obama has done nothing with it’s the fact that Congress can’t agree on what type of pizza to order from Domino’s without shutting the government down.

          • 8ball

            A 17% reduction is not a shutdown. it’s an intervention.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Not even a thank you for me getting you a copy of every budget for the last 18 years? And you dodge the question of how the budget process works. It’s a lovely circle of discussion we’ve got here.

            Also, don’t crow about your “intervention”, cuz it didn’t end well for the Tea Party, who were shoved aside by other Republicans to keep the country from driving off the fiscal cliff. But you’re welcome for those budgets, btw.

          • ziggy zoggy

            What fiscal cliff? Americans don’t aren’t 17 to 110 trillion dollars in debt – the government is. Americans would be better off if that destroyer Obama were to stop wasting money the government doesn’t have and never will. Not that idiotic metaphors have any place in a discussion about reality.

          • ziggy zoggy

            The Democrats unite in opposition to the Republicans on just about every subject – as when they “shutdown” the government.

          • truebearing

            The president is required to submit a budget, genius, but since you acknowledge that the House has the authority when it comes to the purse strings, why are you defending Obama’s spending policies that bypass Congressional authority with every opportunity?

          • Salen Stormwing

            It’s a budget request, not a budget. It says “This is what I want”, but Congress can do what they want with it.

            As for bypassing Congress, have you been here the last 10 days? Those guys NEVER get anything done. I think I’d rather take the beltway than stick in this Congressional demolition derby.

          • ziggy zoggy

            How many “requests” has Obama sent to Congress? How many were realistic or well intentioned?

            If congress never gets anything done, how did it pass Obamacare without even reading it? How did the Dems help Obama shutdown key government functions for the express purpose of punishing Americans and blaming the Republicans?

            Time for some of those facts you claim to promote.

          • ziggy zoggy

            When you quote Wikipedia you lose your argument.

          • Salen Stormwing

            There is no Godwin Rule for Wikipedia.

          • ziggy zoggy

            There is no Godwin rule, period. Socialist tw@t.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Yes there is. Moron.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Dorks like Godwin don’t have the authority to impose rules and his attempt to be clever was moronic. No wonder you like it.

        • Gislef

          Would you have supported them if they had?

          But yes, compared to what the Democrats wanted, they certainly fought.

        • Robert_Fl

          Dem troll tactic: change the subject.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Republican troll tactic: point at the other guy and claim he was totally responsible and you didn’t.

          • Robert_Fl

            Another troll tactic: “You are one too”.

        • krowbro

          While that statement is true, it is completely irrelevant. Bush has been out of office for 5 years. Let’s stick to current events.

        • ziggy zoggy

          The fiscal irresponsibility under Bush was infinitesimal compared to that under Obama.

          Attempt to equate Bush to Obama: DENIED.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Yes, because getting us into two wars and not putting either into the actual budget is fiscally infinitesimal.

            Attempt to circumvent culpability for previous actions: DENIED.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Obama waged five wars and aided in two coups. Obama has wasted trillions more than Bush ever considered.

            DNC talking points about phony Bush budgets: denied.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Obama waged five wars and helped stage two more islamic coups. President Bush spent less money than Obama by a factor of thousands. Tens of thousands.

            Phony DNC meme about Bush budgets: DENIED.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Yes, because Obama has waged five wars and aided in three jihadist coups. President Bush is trillions and trillions of dollars behind Obama.

            Attempt to use crusty old DNC canard: DENIED.

            Attempt to crawl up my @$$: ALSO DENIED.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Your font says DENIED, but your constant protesting says otherwise.

          • ziggy zoggy

            I have toilet paper for turds like you.

            So how can you support wars against Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Libya by Obama but oppose wars against Iraq and Afghanistan by President Bush? It couldn’t have anything to do with blind left-wing fanaticism and deceit, now could it?

    • nomoretraitors

      You do not address the substance of the article: the fiscally unsound policy being pushed by the Democrats (not that Republicans don’t share some of the blame for the mess we’re in).
      Of course you wouldn’t care about that. All you want to do is jump up and down and say “We won. We won. We won.”

    • Gislef

      If Obama had a mandate, he wouldn’t be in this situation. A mandate is not simply “I was elected.” Nobody said Bush had a mandate. Heck, at the time Democrats disagreed that Reagan had a mandate when he swept into office.

      Certainly very few Democrats went along with Bush and Reagan just because they were elected.

      A mandate is HAVING the power, not lacking the power but saying you do to justify your actions.

      • justquitnow

        Bush said he had a mandate. After pulling out that sqeaker against Kerry, with the shenanigans in Ohio and some other states and people really pissed about the state of our elections, Bush said he had a mandate. “When you win you get capital” he said “political capital and I’m going to spend it”. Then he tired to privatize social security.

        • truebearing

          I hate to break it to you, moron, but with the economy and demographics moving inexorably in the wrong direction, SS is doomed, and was from its inception. You entitlement idiots can’t think past your political indoctrination.

        • ziggy zoggy

          And right is left because you claim it’s so.

    • Robert_Fl

      Do some research. Due to the percentage of voter turnout (57%), obama’s 2012 win (50.5%) was accomplished with the votes of 29% of eligible voters. In addition, he received several million fewer votes than he did in 2008. His massive support is nothing more than a construct of obama and the media…it is not based in reality. His entire campaign was based on what a bad guy Romney was. He campaigned on no issues (how could he?). He has no mandate. As it is every two years, the entire House was also up for re-election in 2012. The electorate voted to return the Republicans to the majority…that’s right, the Republicans in the House were also elected, not just obama. By the way, this country is not a democracy.

      • Salen Stormwing

        So, everyone who was elected last election was elected. Brilliant. Now that settles the “Obama stole the election” discussion, can we go back to the real discussion?

        • Robert_Fl

          You really do seem to have a problem with the English language. Where do you see me saying that obama stole the election anywhere in my comment? I am merely rebutting the statement that “the majority of Americans voted for obama and his agenda”. That is simply not a true statement. I do not have the time or the desire to respond to any more of your nonsensical comments. Have a nice day.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Oh, I didn’t say you said it… I just said it settles the debate over Obama “stealing the election”. You see, you use statistics like a knife, but you see, statistics cut both ways. Obama won 51.1% of ALL votes in the previous election. If you don’t vote, it doesn’t count. Right? That’s how this works. That’s why Republicans want to purge the ballot rolls.

            And the other guy got… 47.7%.

            So, a majority of Americans who voted voted for Obama. If you wanna say, “He didn’t say that”, you’re parsing words far too fine, my friend. After all, there are only 3 types of lies in this world; Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Mark Twain said that…

          • Robert_Fl

            My final response to you:

            “So, a majority of Americans who voted voted for Obama.”
            is not the same as
            “The majority of Americans voted for Obama and his agenda”

            I am not parsing, I am using plain English.

          • Salen Stormwing

            You’re looking for the phrase “A majority of Americans who voted in the last election voted for Obama”. His “agenda” is pretty much implied if you elect him, you get what he’s going to be going after. Duh.

            This is like saying, “Oh my god, I got Ice Cream from the guy in the truck, but I wasn’t expecting this HORRIBLE LACTOSE INTOLERANCE that I’m prone to suffer from!”

            In the end, as bad as you want to finagle the statistics… Obama won his election, other people won their elections, and in the end, the people who were elected can’t seem to stand each other, or at least a very vocal, minority of 1 major party can’t stand everybody.

          • ziggy zoggy

            “When a person cannot deceive himself the chances are against him being able to deceive other people.”

            ………………Mark Twain.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Stop lying to cover up your last stupid lie. You did blame Robert for an election subject that has not been brought up on this thread.

            The Republicans want to purge the election rolls of fraud. You don’t, because the overwhelming majority of fraud is Dem fraud. Even with that fraud and vote suppression, Obama only got 1/6 of the votes cast. This from a wimp who has had the Monostream media campaigning for him 24/7 since 2008.

            When you lie does your troll check get bigger or do you just get a warm tingle up your leg?

          • ziggy zoggy

            “When a person cannot deceive himself chances are against his being able to deceive other people.” Mark Twain said that.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Troll attempt to distract the discussion and change the subject to another false premise: DENIED.

          Obama is going to waste another trillion on kickback rewards and failed policies before the temporary debt limit runs out in Jan/Feb.

          And you will remain an idiot.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Approximately 1.2 hundred million votes were counted in the 2012 presidential election and that includes all the fraudulent Dem votes. The 57% voter turnout refers to registered voters only. Obama won with about 16% of public support.

        He didn’t even have a mandate to be elected, much less to impose any destructive policies he wants.

    • zoomie

      Mr. Fool,

      Quite an apt name. The reason you hold the views you do is your lack of historical education. You’re not to blame, it was planned that way. However, you may well need to educate yourself. The die was just cast.

      One thought in passing. The people who founded this country did know their history. To paraphrase a quote, ” A republic Sir, if you can keep it “.

      A direct quote,
      Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
      James Madison, Federalist No. 10, November 23, 1787
      What he spoke of were the original Greek democracies. There is a reason why Greek history is a forbidden subjuct. We’re the fools repeating it.

    • Charles Martel

      As much as it pains me to say it, you are correct. We have such a low IQ and low knowledge voting populace now that we are doomed to have repeatedly failed policies over and over again until America is crushed. I think this was the plan all along. Dumb down the population, promise them heaven, and stick them with hell. Powell Clivins strategy?

      My hope is that a remnant can be saved to rebuild a nation or state that will require minimum qualifications to vote.

    • krowbro

      Not even close to a majority of Americans voted for Obama. It is arguable that even a majority of those who voted in the last election voted for Obama, given the election anomalies never investigated.

      • Salen Stormwing

        51.1% to 47.7% seems pretty definitive on the who had a majority during the last election. MATH! It’s like 2+2.

        • ziggy zoggy

          51.1% of whom, you imbecile?

          • Salen Stormwing

            Voters in the previous election, according to all tallies of voters who voted.

            What? Are you saying they’re not American-enough to vote?

          • ziggy zoggy

            Are you saying 51.1% of approximately 100 million people is a majority in a country of more than 330 million?

            What? Are you claiming I’m too American to count? MATH! It’s like 2+2 is all you leftists can handle. Thanks to the public (and private) schools you destroyed.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Well, I’m sure there would have been more but Republican governors keep trying to disenfranchise anyone who isn’t someone they like.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Someone they don’t like. Meaning all the dead people, foreigners, pets, imprisoned felons and multiple voters in the Dem party?

            Ret@rd.

    • gerry

      Well the electoral system is corrupt this is what we know.Some people greatly benefit from it.We saw during the convention how the Dems count votes.Obama was reelected so was Mugabe!

    • ziggy zoggy

      Only a third of Americans voted in the 2012 elections, and that includes all the Democrat vote fraud. Of that third, slightly more than half of the votes went to Obama.

      America did not vote for Obama, not that a vote for a candidate necessarily includes full approval of all agendas and whims – especially not agendas that weren’t revealed or formed during an election.

      The Tea Party is a grass roots populist movement based on ultimate American law. Hatred for the Tea Party is hatred for America.

      Obama and the other incredibly corrupt Dems were 100% responsible for the government shutdown and the punishment of American citizens.

      You are completely full of $hit and have no idea what the definitions are for “hostage” and “blackmail.”

  • http://alakhtal.wordpress.com/ Obaid Karki

    Not Israel. Not now. Israel can wait. Let’s figure out how to Un-Christian Dior Obama first.

    Obama crowed last week “We are winning…It doesn’t really matter to us” how long the shutdown lasts “because what matters is the end result.” dumb-down to see the scam.

    Now Chinese can stop chewing fetus, swallowing babies and drinking human milk to alter DNA Genomics in case US gone bust.

    Deranged GOP Preppers are deserting the battle ground for Corrupt Reprimanded Democrats, Liberal Hippies and Israelifirsters to finish America. Don’t blame me for your menopause. When their founding fathers landed in America. There were 100 million Buffaloes and 10 trillion salmon in America now their broods importing Monsanto fed GMO beef from New Zealand and Cloned Salmon from Chile. This is a harsh justification to say that Republican illiterates and Teeebaagerzz Preppers got nothing to do with shagging America. Debt ain’t perspective no mo. It’s Fiat! China, Russia, Japan & GCC Thugocracies pegged their monetary against it. None of those Pseudo-Economies will dump T-Bonds that they hold unless they’re carving their own tombstone. Government shutdown could be avoided only if OBAMACARE renamed BOEHNERCARE and Liberal Hippies along with Blacks’ overpriced Liposuction is omitted from the Bill then everybody can go home early.

    Boehner spent all his life sucking booze outta scrubbing sponge in his sister’s bar in Ohio. Now he’s the most powerful Debauchee Drunkard Bacchanalian on planet earth. Shutdown is a GODSEND miracle to show the world how America is venerable and run by amateurs. Republicans gonna lose the House and the White House’ for good this time. Never mind about the Senate its GOP’s Everlasting Farfetched Daydream; especially when Teeebaagerzz are shagged between the aisles as we speak. Wrecking every bill rigged by the Koch Brothers.

    H: 285 YES144 NO. S: 81 YES18 NO. U.S. here’s your preys. Go get em’ boys:

    Spencer Bachus, Lou Barletta, Dan Benishek, Gus Bilirakis, John Boehner, Charles Boustany, Susan Brooks, Vern Buchanan, Ken Calvert, Dave Camp, Eric Cantor, Shelley Moore Capito, Howard Coble, Mike Coffman, Tom Cole, Paul Cook, Tom Cotton, Kevin Cramer, Rick Crawford, Ander Crenshaw, Steve Daines, Charlie Dent, Mario Diaz Balart, Mike Fitzpatrick, Jeff Fortenberry, Rodney Frelinghuysen, Cory Gardner, Jim Gerlach, Chris Gibson, Tim Griffin, Michael Grimm, Brett Guthrie, Richard Hanna, Gregg Harper, Doc Hastings, Joe Heck, Jaime Herrera Beutler, Darrell Issa, Lynn Jenkins, David Joyce, Mike Kelly, Peter King, Adam Kinzinger, John Kline, Leonard Lance, Tom Latham, Frank LoBiondo, Kevin McCarthy, Patrick McHenry, Buck McKeon, David McKinley, Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Pat Meehan, Gary Miller, Tim Murphy, Devin Nunes, Erik Paulsen, Robert Pittenger, Dave Reichert, Reid Ribble, Scott Rigell, Hal Rogers, Mike Rogers, Ileana Ros Lehtinen, Peter Roskam, Jon Runyan, Aaron Schock, John Shimkus, Bill Shuster, Mike Simpson, Adrian Smith, Chris Smith, Steve Stivers, Lee Terry, Glenn Thompson, Pat Tiberi, Scott Tipton, Fred Upton, David Valadao, Daniel Webster, Ed Whitfield, Rob Wittman, Frank Wolf, Steve Womack, Don Young, Todd Young,

    House stenographer went nuts, Dianne Reidy was forced off the floor, Capitol Hill staff escort her off to the elevators. Reidy said: “We will not be mocked. We will not be mocked. We will not be mocked. The greatest deception here is this is not one nation under God. It never was. Had it been, the Constitution would not have been written by Free Masons. They go against God. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve two masters. Praise be to God–Lord Jesus Christ.”

    • justquitnow

      I stopped when you misquoted the President

      Obama crowed last week “We are winning…It doesn’t really matter to us” how long the shutdown lasts “because what matters is the end result.” dumb-down to see the scam.

      He did not say this….start with a lie and nothing good can folliow.

      • UCSPanther

        Obaid Karki is a troll who has way too much time on his hands.

        • ziggy zoggy

          And not enough meds…….

      • ziggy zoggy

        Just$hitnow,

        “Nothing good can follow.” You should use that to preface all your comments.

        • justquitnow

          Change your name to “bottom-feeder troll”please.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Just$hitnow,

            “Bottom feeder troll” is already taken. It’s the name of the White House website.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Damn, Karki Capuchin. Even by raggy standards you are insane.

  • Steeloak

    Must be a full moon – the moonbats are out in full force today.

    • gerry

      More moonbats in December.

    • nomoretraitors

      The moonbats were out in full force last Nov.

    • Juan Motie

      They were also out full force in new jersey yesterday!

    • Salen Stormwing

      Moonbats are attracted to loud echo chambers, where they feast upon swarms of opinion pieces trying to resemble news.

      • Steeloak

        Oh – no wonder they like Daily Kos, Huffington Post, and Moveon.org. Can’t for the life of me figure out what they are doing at FPM – sort of a masochistic garlic & vampires thing for them I guess.

        • Salen Stormwing

          Nah, that’s just to be well rounded. You see, it’s important to listen to both sides and make your own decisions on views. But people who stick to just one side of the echo chamber or the other… they never see the truth. And that’s sad.

          • truebearing

            What good would “seeing the truth” be to a leftist? You hate and assiduously ignore the truth, or you wouldn’t all live by the lie. And the idea that you will get any truth from leftwing websites is laughable. If you come here for truth, you may not be irrevocably lost to your leftist delusions, but it is far more likely that you’re here to gloat and irritate your intellectual and moral superiors.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Nobody has a stanglehold on “truth”. Ignoring the truth would be stupid. And I’ve seen plenty of that on both sides of the fence.

            You see, the first thing to do though, to get people to have a true discussion, is not to insult them by insinuating they’re better than you. Moral superiority would be nice, if there wasn’t the rotten core of hypocrisy that gnaws on it. And brother, I’ve seen a lot of hypocrisy.

            The problem is, there’s the truth you see, the truth they see, and then there’s THE TRUTH.

            The Truth is… there were no winners in this. Only people hurt in the crossfire of political muscle being thrown at each other. Folks will try to justify their positions, or what they did, but did all this really help people, or did in the end, did this hurt more people?

            And that’s the sad truth. Stop downvoting a person who posts facts, real facts. Otherwise, you close yourself off from true learning. And that serves no one in the end.

          • Steeloak

            “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
            ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

          • Salen Stormwing

            And yet I’ve seen folks here vote up folks who still declare Obama’s a Muslim. Lot of opinions going around, the facts be takin’ a holiday though.

            If folks would actually talk facts, maybe we wouldn’t have so much gridlock in government. So yeah, lots of entitlement going around.

          • TheOrdinaryMan

            There are two halves to Obama’s family. One half is conservative and Christian; the other Marxist and Islamic. Obama supports the Marxist/Islamic half, and ignores the conservative/Christian half. He also attended Rev. Jeremiah Wrights church in Chicago for 20 years, and did nothing to distance himself from the hate-spewing Rev. Wright, until a scant 5 months before the 2008 election. Those are the facts. So what difference does it make if Obama’s Muslim or not? He supports radical Muslim groups to a frightening degree; a fact which is all that’s needed to know where his sympathies lie.

          • Salen Stormwing

            See, we can’t even get past these sorts of slandering to get to the truth. We as a Nation should have the guts to be able to be rational individuals, but because we keep letting this sort of stuff to clutter the political stomping ground… it’s no wonder it’s a quagmire of despair, where truth dies a slow, lingering death.

            I guess civil discourse isn’t on the menu.

          • gerry

            What is slanderind to you is fact to us.When Jeremy Wright is your mentor,it speaks for itself.When Bill Ayres is your friend it speaks for itself.When they are 38 lies in your book it speaks for itself.etc etc….

          • ziggy zoggy

            There is nothing libelous about noting that self professed – and proud – communists and Muslims actually are who they claim to be. In fact, TOM understated the facts. Obama’s mother and maternal grandparents were card carrying communists and the man he claims was his father was a self promoting muslim Matxist, whatever that’s supposed to be.

            And Obama demonstrably does sympathize and aid islam and islamopithecines, especially the muslim brotherhood, which by the way is the world’s largest terrorist group.

            I guess FACTS aren’t on your menu.

          • gerry

            Thanks for remind us the facts that are well known around the world.As for supporting radical Muslim he is the friend of the Brotherhood,particularly of his friend Morsi.Just ask the Egyptians what they think about Obama.Not very nice,but more in less in line with the rest of the world.

          • ziggy zoggy

            It’s a moot point whether Obama is a muslim or not. He does everything in his power to strengthen and promote islam. He may as well be an islamopithecine, and quite possibly is. He sure as HeII isn’t a Christian, and neither is Jeremiah White.

            What gridlock are you talking about? The Republican Party hasn’t got a thing out of Obama and the Democrats. The shutdown of the shutdown is the latest example of something for nothing.

            And since when have leftists cared about facts? Most Democrats hate them like poison, too. It’s all about demonizing self professed (and created) enemies and deceiving the public for those people.

          • Salen Stormwing

            Nothing I say will change what you think. What you think isn’t based on facts. It’s based on ideology, on hatred, on fear. You paint every “leftist” with a broad brush, and just can’t accept that there are crazy people on both sides of the political fence, conservative and liberal.

            If you refuse to open your eyes to what goes on without using the tinted glasses of your polorized world… then nothing I say matters to you.

            So, instead, I will bid you a good night. Because it’s night, and that’s a fact.

          • ziggy zoggy

            If I were wrong you would be able to sway me with facts.

            Only 20% of Americans self identify as leftists, and that figure has been stable since the 1960s. NOBODY self identifies as a right-winger, because there is no such thing. America is not divided between two ideological groups. Most people are moderate or conservative. The people you describe as liberal are the exact opposite, and only left-wing policies are insane and a proved failure.

            It is only night on one half of the planet. THAT IS A FACT.

          • davalliodan

            Who in the world is Jeremiah White?

          • Omar

            You mean Jeremiah Wright. He is a Chicago priest and a liberation theologist who is infamous for giving the fiery anti-American, anti-democratic and pro-Communist totalitarian speech “God Damn America”. Wright is simply evil.

          • ziggy zoggy

            He’s also about 90% White and very confused.

          • ziggy zoggy

            That pasty White “reverend” of the Trinity “church” who thinks he’s Black. You know, the anti-American and anti-White hatemonger who mentored Obama for twenty years. That Jeremiah White.

          • 20pizzapies

            I see your IQ is a bit greater than your shoe size …..just another gullible tea party parrot .

          • ziggy zoggy

            The only thing you have that’s smaller and weaker than your brain is your tiny pecker.

            Did the Tea Party make me write that?

          • 20pizzapies

            How would you know the size ???? LOL….no the Tea Party didn’t make you write that . You’re Tea party BECAUSE you wrote that ……it’s your speed and theirs .

          • ziggy zoggy

            The Democrat party has a size limit: Nothing over five inches. Hardcore Lefties are limited to four.

            And conservatives have a size requirement: Nothing under seven inches.

            Are you a conservative? I haven’t seen you at any of the meetings. =D

          • 20pizzapies

            Like I said , you’re typical Tea party Material . Don’t forget to take your tape measure to your next “meeting ” .

          • Omar

            And you are just another guillible Occupy Wall Street parrot. Learn from facts instead of repeating leftist propaganda.

          • 20pizzapies

            Wrong Teabag , Occupy are in the same category as Tea party – IMBECILES AND MORONS >

          • Omar

            No they are not. The Tea Party believes in fiscal responsibility and responsible government, while Occupy Wall Street (which you support) advocates for abolishing private property and imposing Communist totalitarianism.

          • 20pizzapies

            I never said I supported Occupy , you’re an idiot . As far as “responsible government ” ? That’s a croc of B.S. , responsible government doesn’t call for SHUTDOWN . Go out and buy a new brain , the one you have is broken .

          • Omar

            How sad. You have the need to resort to insults to try and “make” your “point”. You really need to stop blaming the Tea Party for everything bad happening to this country, you ignoramus. The Tea Party believes in responsible government and fiscal responsibility, while you leftists support increased unnecessary government spending. That’s the reality.

          • 20pizzapies

            What you really need to do , is stop assuming ,and being an imbecile . I don’t blame the Tea Party for everything bad , I blame the Tea party for the SHUTDOWN , and rightly so .
            And I insult YOU because you deserve to be insulted .

          • Omar

            And you act like a total ignoramus. The Occupy movement is responsible for intensifying the current economic crisis, since they were instrumental in re-electing many left-wing Democrats in government last year. The Occupy movement and many others on the left are responsible for today’s troubles in politics. That’s the reality.

          • 20pizzapies

            Gee Omar , you certainly have convinced me that you are a total moron . Don’t hurt yourself thinking dimbulb .

          • Omar

            No. That would be you.

          • ziggy zoggy

            What fence are you talking about?

          • ziggy zoggy

            You’re promoting the fiction that both sides of every issue are valid, and that the left has something valuable to offer mankind.

          • Salen Stormwing

            And you’re promoting the type of mindset of a terrorist. Good for you. You must be so proud to be close-minded.

          • ziggy zoggy

            I thought the House Republicans were the terrorists, you drooling imbecile? Did your DNC talking points get routed through the Obamacare website or something?

            Wasting tax dollars to block Americans from federal property during a phony government shutdown was sleazy and evil. Which side of that issue was good? How was it a good thing that Obama did it?

            You left-wing automatons take the same side of every issue without consideration. Nobody needs to listen to you hypocrites to know how you “think.”

          • Salen Stormwing

            I didn’t call the Republicans terrorists. Just you, and your 19th century mindset. I still find it appalling you don’t want women to vote.

            You got your government shutdown, and you’re shocked when it shuts down stuff it runs? My gawd, do you go to Chick-Fil-A on Sundays, assuming you’ll be able to order a nice chicken sandwich even though they’re closed?

            If it means respecting women, their right to vote, and respecting the position of Commander-in-Chief no matter who’s in the White House, I’m be whatever horrible thing you want to call me. Because in the end, you’re a dying breed that has the same mindset as the terrorists we fight in Afghanistan.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Your troll masters gave you the assigned talking point that the Repubs in the House are hostage taking, terrorist blackmailers. Come on! Earn your paycheck!

            The government shutdown is the best thing Obama ever did. Sure, we didn’t save any money but it kept him from fucking anything up except the federal property that ostensibly belongs to the people that he hates so much.

            If you don’t like Chik-Fil-A, move to San Francisco. The majority of Americans like Chik-Fil-A and oppose gay “marriage.” That the popular opinion you claim to like……but only when it goes your way.

            Women and Presidents have to earn respect the same way men do. The problem is, few of you do and you aren’t held up to the same high standard. And the Taliban are the scum that Obama is negotiating with. You left-wing Obamatons agree with that but you crow because he refused to negotiate with Republicans.

            Spare me your false sanctimony, you piece of trash.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Yes. That’s how the HuffPo, Media Matters, move on, etc, stay in business. That, and screeching hatred for all unbelievers.

    • krowbro

      This is a typical liberal response taken directly from Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. Try refuting the facts presented in the commentary if you can Steeloak, otherwise; quit wasting bandwidth with your inane responses.

      • Steeloak

        You do know a moonbat is a leftwing nutjob right? I was commenting on the sudden appearance of leftwing trolls I haven’t seen here before.

  • tagalog

    So the deal doesn’t even include a requirement that members of Congress have the same healthcare program they’re ramming down our throats.

    That was one thing the Democrats would almost certainly HAVE to agree to (or look pretty elitist), and we didn’t even get that.

    I expected the resistance to be overcome, but I thought that surely we’d get at least a proviso that our leaders would have to eat the same excrement that we are now going to be swallowing. I guess us being a government of laws and not of men has gone by the boards.

    Well, no doubt I hope in vain that Republicans and other conservatives will remember this ignominious defeat the next time they’re in the majority. I’d love to see the Dems get their noses rubbed in it when it’s their turn.

    • justquitnow

      They already have healthcare….they don’t need to go to an exchange. This is the Republicans making up issues “one for me another for thee” someone was telling me on this site…and then having to answer for their made up stupid issue when it evaporates.

      Obamacare is not a plan…you don’t “go on” Obamacare because that’s juist shorthand for the Patient Protection and Affordable Healthcare act. You don’t “go on” the law. You will be required in 2014 to have health insurance. The end.

      • tagalog

        So all that guff about registering and the sites having trouble because of the software, all that’s just Republican smoke and mirrors, is that right?

        If they already have health insurance, how come there was a bill passed into law that Congressional workers are getting taxpayer-paid subsidies for THEIR Obamacare premiums, hmmm?

  • http://www.clarespark.com/ Clare Spark

    The progressives should be evacuated from the Republican Party. They will bend to Democrats every time, as long as capitalism retains its plausibility. See http://clarespark.com/2009/09/19/populism-progressivism-and-corporatist-liberalism-in-the-nation-1919/. “Populism, progressivism, and corporatist liberalism in The Nation, 1919.” WSJ is furious too, but is angry at the younger generation, not at progressivism in Republican Party.

    • justquitnow

      They had to bend. They didn’t have a real reason to shut down the government, it hurts our credit rating, slows the economy, and China is talking about getting the world off the dollar….so wake up.

      • krowbro

        They didn’t bend, they caved. You have bought the propaganda being peddled by the leftist Dems and Repubs. Unless we are willing to endure some pain, this ship will never be turned around. All of those events you described are going to come to pass anyway, only the solution forthcoming will be more government control. History shows that is invariably what happens in a crisis.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Just$hitnow IS a leftist!

      • truebearing

        China wants to dominate the world’s economy, bonehead, but they are also extremely concerned about Obama’s idiotic policies, as they have bluntly said more than once.

        • ziggy zoggy

          If America defaults, China loses. America will have one less bill. There would be nothing China could do about it.

      • ziggy zoggy

        The Dems shut down the government and America yawned.

  • http://www.shugartmedia.com/ Chris Shugart

    I’m wondering if the GOP actually believes they’ve somehow transformed themselves into the good guys as a result of this agreement. The simple political math is that when bad things happen, it’s the GOP’s fault, when good things happen, it’s because of the Dems. The GOP is the slowest learner since Charlie Brown, when he repeatedly attempted to kick the football that Lucy always pulled away. It’s the same result too–the GOP is flat on its back again. At least Charlie Brown had some perspective when he’d ask himself, “When will I ever learn?”

    • krowbro

      Your premise that the GOP is an opposition party is simply not valid. It’s not that the GOP never learns, its the fact that the GOP is in bed with the Democrats. The Republican and the Democrat parties are just two sides of the same big government coin. Some are finally starting to come to this realization, unfortunately; it may be too late.

    • tagalog

      I suspect that the most likely result is that moderates will be swinging to a point of view that holds that the Democrat Party is not to be trusted with leadership and that they will tend to vote more toward the right in 2014 and hopefully in 2016.

      But whoever said that the Republicans need to come up with a charismatic and persuasive set of candidates for public office soon is clearly correct.

    • gerry

      May be in the US.Overseas people have woken up.Judgement and verdict were pased and given during the Syrian crisis.Message loud and clear,but apparently not cear and loud enough for some.Priceless!

    • http://www.shugartmedia.com/ Chris Shugart

      Keep in mind I’m referring mainly to the DC GOP establishment. I consider them a sort of modern-day “Vichy government” that maintains the Republican status quo for the Democrat occupation. They’re mistaken if they think that playing along with the Obama administration will end well for them.

  • Juan Motie

    When economic illiterates run the country, such as our “dear leader” and extreme leftist obama and his evil sidekicks in both houses of congress, economic chaos is sure to follow.

    • gerry

      Weel there seem to be a lot of illiterate in the US the world statistics in on education prove it.Math is not particularly their strong subject.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Remove everybody but Whites and Asians from those statistics and America is second only to Japan in mathematics. Not that literacy has anything to do with Maths.

  • Donald J DaCosta

    As long as a majority of Americans remain enthralled with Obama and indoctrinated by an incessant stream of hatred and disdain for all things republican and, most importantly, absent forceful, dynamic republican leadership, America will remain on this road to oblivion. Obama is the pied piper whistling his song of “love for the middles class” as he marches them off a fiscal cliff.

    Democrats have long ago learned that increasing government handouts and give-aways increase the size of their base thereby creating one party rule. That base is incapable of connecting their welfare benefits to its source, the backs of a dwindling class of Americans that remain convinced that the American dream still exists.

    The democratic party requires and promotes ignorance and gullibility because only this gives them political power. The conservative message requires analysis of somewhat more complicated, subtle, esoteric concepts and a level of maturity and knowledge that’s been eroding since the sixties when the Left began their takeover of the American education system.

    How many mature, adult, well educated, folk are absolutely convinced that all the trumped up propaganda spoken, written and displayed on the TV screen every day by the “impartial” media, firmly and happily secure in their well paid, liberal cocoons, is the absolute truth? How many mature, adult, well educated people are incapable of any thought progression beyond the intentionally deceptive and intentionally misleading surface? And, in 2013, how many mature, adult, well educated folk are there in America? And, if these, the best and brightest of Americans, cannot determine what is happening right before their eyes and ears, what are the odds that the majority of average Americans are capable of figuring it out?

    2016 will perhaps be the most important test of the democratic system of governance in America’s storied history. If what now constitutes the democratic party wins a majority of seats in both houses of congress and the presidency, America is done.

    • ziggy zoggy

      One third of the population is statistically stupid, and many people are simply disinterested in government and the sort of “thought progression” necessary to get past the lies disseminated by the Establishment Media 24/7. The stupid people have a legitimate excuse for believing that Democrat promoting media crap but the others don’t. Sloth is never an excuse in my opinion, and that’s the only reason otherwise mediocre or intelligent(?) people support Obama – except for scum sucking corruption, of course.

    • ireAmerica

      Donald:

      Speaking of mature, adult, well educated people;

      We do NOT have a “democratic system of governance”. We have a Constitutional republic structured to preserve our individual sovereignty.

      Democracy and democratic systems are tools of tyranny. What you are exposing is actually disguised Marxism.

      • Donald J DaCosta

        An unfortunate and inaccurate choice of words on my part. I stand corrected but not with regard to the rest of the comment.

        • ireAmerica

          Donald:

          Thanks for being a stand-up & shout-out guy. You’re spot on!

      • justquitnow

        Even democracy is Marxist? Holy smokes.

        • ireAmerica

          justquitnow:

          Democracy was a well-known evil in our Founder’s time. All the way back then they had historical records of failed “democratic” systems.

          They knew that democracy (majority rule) always forces minorities to submit to regulation they do not want, (as the interests of the minority have not been considered). Eventually the subjugated ones revolt.

          The Founders actually wrote that democracies “… have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths”.

          Tyrannies such as Marxism employ “democracy” with full knowledge of its real evil outcomes.

          • justquitnow

            “Tyrannies such as Marxism employ “democracy” with full knowledge of its real evil outcomes.”

            You have nouns and verbs in there, but this makes absolutely no freaking sense.

            I never thought I would hear as much states’s rights and “republic” and seccession talk as I have since we elected a black man to the white house.

            The Republicans have just refused to do anything for eight years until Obama is out of office. They will continue to make crisis of standard stuff and keeping working on the superobjective of government not working at all. Faced with a shrinking electorate, the Republicans now want to try to rule states or little enclaves within states. Well good luck with that I guess. We did fight a civil war to ensure that we were one nation.

            The really sad part is you guys have to get hysterical over the ACA….and stupid false scandals because the reality is just too boring and the idea of working with Obama too repulsive. You have to twist healthcare regulations and price controls into the subjugation of the minority.

            And to make matters worse you have this mad libs kind of thinkings where philosophies, systems of government, tyrannies, and secret history are one big pile of doo that you can extract your conclusions from.

          • Omar

            Obama is a mixed-race president. He is half-black and half-evite. Quit repeating the propaganda that his race is only that of his father.

          • justquitnow

            Yes, because as we all know bigots and scumbags are always “glass is half full” type folks.

  • frodo

    It is not the case that Democrats’ only response to the budget issues is raising taxes on the rich. If you weren’t trapped in this right-wing mirror universe, you’d see this. No reasonable person imagines that the only answer is raised revenues.

    Nor does it make sense to say that anyone but the House GOP were taking hostages–this whole wasteful and expensive show is a product of the House GOP membership’s refusal to act like grownups.

    • Omar

      What about the left-wing mirror universe of the Occupy Wall Street movement? OWS supports Communist totalitarianism, while the Tea Party advocates for responsible government.

      • justquitnow

        OWS didn’t know what it was trying to do….fairness…in something? The Tea Party likewise is a confused bunch, but big money made sure they got their slogans and objectives together.

        Get your government hands off my medicare!
        - tea party protestor

        • salvitucci

          OWS is anarcho-socialist. TP is anarcho-capitalist. Real conservatism is neither.

          • justquitnow

            Yes I know…if it fails it wasn’t “real” conservatism.

        • ziggy zoggy

          George Soros and other big money sources like Obama and our tax dollars funded OWS, and not the Tea Party.

          “Get your hands off my Medicare” is objectionable to you in what way? And that phony protester was a plant. He was thirty or forty years too young to collect Medicare, you moron.

          • justquitnow

            No they didn’t you stupid puppet. OWS was about as grass roots as you can get.

            No moron…it’s get your “government” hands off my medicare. Sure…they are all plants if you don’t like it. The world is a big conspiracy against ziggy zoggy…the cult’s dumbest troll.

            I’m sure you have a gun…go blow your own brains out and make the world a better place.

      • frodo

        And, how is this remotely relevant to what I wrote. I wasn’t talking about OWS, but the mainstream Democratic Party which has proposed spending cuts (not just defense).

        • Omar

          Our national debt is around $18 trillion. How do you think we got there? We got there by increased government spending. The Occupy movement and others on the left like many contemporary Democrats want to continue to make huge amounts of government spending. The Tea Party, on the other hand, wants fiscal responsibility and to cut unnecessary government spending. That’s the reality

          • justquitnow

            Two wars and tax cuts and the prescription drug benefit, then TARP. Then Obama came into office and the deficits and debt became the only important things again.

          • Omar

            You are wrong. Those two wars were necessary, since 1. we were attacked on 9/11and we needed to retaliate against Islamist terrorists and 2. we need to make the world safe for democracy, human rights, liberty and stability. Are you aware that one of the regimes we helped to overthrow had attempted to occupy and annex a sovereign country about 12-13 years before the aggressive regime was overthrown. The War on Terror was indeed justified.
            Regarding taxes, how do tax cuts contributed to increasing the national debt? If anything, increased government spending increases the debt. That’s the reality.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Joto,

          Proposed spending cuts? Cutting infinitesimal amounts while adding astronomical spending amounts does absolutely nothing to balance a budget or reduce a deficit.

          Obama refused to consider any offer made by the House and instituted his phony shutdown so that he could try and make Americans suffer so he could blame it on the Republicans. Only a POS would do that and only a POS would cheer him on and excuse it.

    • kasandra

      Right you are. Their other answer is to further cut defense. Brilliant policy there – punish the productive and throttle our ability to defend ourselves. A sure recipe for success.

      • frodo

        Typically oversimplified, not to mention wrong.

        • kasandra

          Okay, tell me one thing besides defense that the democrats have cut. You can’t because they haven’t passed a budget in the Senate since 2009 but have (illegally) governed by continuing resolution since that time. Continuing resolutions, by their terms, “continue” the prior levels of spending except for entitlements which automatically increase. So, then, as I said, you tell me where they’ve cut.

        • kasandra

          Right. I forgot the administration cut the protection budget for our diplomatic facility in Benghazi. I didn’t include that because it made up for the cut by buying expensive electric cars for our embassy in Vienna.

        • ziggy zoggy

          You are claiming that the Dems didn’t cut the defense budget. That is a lie.

          Not only that, but their cuts – both real and “proposed – are incomparably small next to their spending increases.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Joto,

      Strawman argument: DENIED.

      Blame the victim attempt: DENIED.

      • frodo

        Where’s the straw man? Logic fail here, I think.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Joto,

          Nobody claimed that the Dem’s only method of fleecing the public was taxing the “rich,” and sure as HeII nobody claimed that they want to reduce our deficit, much less balance our budget.

          That is not only a straw man argument but it is completely backwards.

  • tanstaafl

    kicking the can down the road

  • arley_barley

    If you can hear that voice in the background, it is the “”Fat Lady, SINGING!!!”” Congress just surrendered the country over to a Spoiled Brat, who don’t care what happens to the Country, only getting his on way with things, be they right, or wrong. (That is an IMO, but hopefully not a lone IMO)

  • http://theobservatorium.blogspot.com/ Nate

    As for that ‘small concession’, it’s not really a concession at all. Consider: nobody can sign up for Obamacare, since the website stinks on ice; they can’t verify incomes if there’s nobody to verify.

  • Flowerknife_us

    Every Child is taxed at Birth now in America. Due directly by Obama’s mandated Tax. called health care reform.

    How is that Taxable valuation determined?

    Health through Slavery.

  • Flowerknife_us

    If the Country rose up against Obama Care-and the press didn’t report it- did it ever happen?

    • leonsam

      “The country” never rose up….just a hard core of the hard core fringe. So, no, it didn’t happen.

  • ziggy zoggy

    The Founders in their wisdom never intended to let everybody vote. That is why they devised the Electoral College and banned women from voting. Jefferson and many of the others wanted even more restrictions on mob voting but they were overruled.

    • Salen Stormwing

      Wow. You don’t want women to vote. Just, wow. Building your bridge to that 19th Century, huh?

      • ziggy zoggy

        Wow. You’re comparing me to the Founders, and comparing 2013 to 1787. (The 18th century, ret@rd.) Just wow.

        I’m flattered by the comparison to the dead White males who formed this country but your comparisons are idiotic.

        America has never been a Democracy, though it’s becoming a tyranny anyway.

        • Salen Stormwing

          America is a Republic. It’s also grown over 240 years. Your narrow viewpoints though, still stuck in that backwards time when people were property and women weren’t expected to do more than raise a family.

          You’re what’s wrong with America. One that hates women, hates minorities, hates anything that conflicts with your view that you should rule people with a bible in one hand and a shotgun in the other.

          Also, you wouldn’t even want your MOTHER to vote? That’s just reprehensible.

          • ziggy zoggy

            America has not “grown.” (An idiotic metaphor meant to mean “improved,” I assume.) It has regressed. The Founding Fathers and the principles which produced the Constitution are not even comparable to that prancing little POS Obama and the totalitarian monstrosity our government is becoming.

            Most women were uneducated and skilled only in homemaking when the Constitution was written, you ignorant moron. That is why it was written with provisions for amendments. Ret@rd. and women will always be much more stupid than men. You can blame God or mother nature but a fact is a fact and I.Q. tests don’t lie.

            Stupid and ignorant doesn’t make for a good voter.

            I believe stupid people should be allowed to vote and that ignorant people should be educated. America would be better off without the votes of stupid and ignorant people, but unlike you I am a true egalitarian. You are a class conscious reprobate who wants an indoctrinated class of voters who will crush all dissent.

            You’re what’s wrong with America. A shadow America that wants special privileges for phony groups like women and other so called minorities, even though your failed policies punish them. You hate Whites, Christians, men and guns – unless they are employed in your service.

            You people are elitist, totalitarian, and above all, mind numbing lay STUPID.

          • Omar

            And you advocate for a Zimbabwe without private property,as well as a society that hates white people, homosexuals and anyone else who opposes the regimes Communist totalitarian policies.

  • American1969

    It’s time to clear out the GOP leadership and get some fresh blood in there. These people are nothing but political whores.

  • Lanna

    I have heard garbage from the left for 5 years, they have trashed religion, the Constitution, the free market, and for those who had good healthcare, they took it away, the people are not giving up, no matter what people in Washington do and say, or what cockamayme stories are printed by the Liberal media.

  • vulgar_imposter

    HA! Bottom line: the GOP got their heads handed to them.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Ha! Bottom line: Obama and the Dems butt fucked America again.

      No wonder you’re so happy.

  • 20pizzapies

    Tea Party at it’s hypocritical best -
    Tea Party candidate for Idaho’s House of Representatives defended himself against allegations of hypocrisy following an NBC News article in which he admitted to signing his entire family up for Medicaid while running on a platform that calls for the dismantling of all government programs.

    “I don’t think that the government should be involved in health care or health insurance,” Greg Collett, 41, of Caldwell told NBC News earlier this month.

    Collett, a self-employed software developer by trade, went on to note that his ten children — two biological, eight adopted — are all recipients of health insurance through the government’s Medicaid program, and acknowledged that “there are a lot of people out there that’ll cry foul” over the dissonance.

    And, indeed, many people did visit Collett’s personal site shortly afterward to ask him what the hell.

    In a lengthy response to all the naysayers, Collett attempted to defend his hypocrisy, but made it so much worse:

    Tea Party Republican Defends Being on Medicaid While Opposing Medicaid.

  • Salen Stormwing

    Oh Robert, I tried to answer some of your questions, you just keep saying stuff that boils down to you not being able to accept my answers. You want answers, but not the ones I give. You want a pundent to agree with your narrow point of view, not answers.

  • Kneel

    “… preventing a mythical government default.” Of course, if you don’t pay your bills on time you are going to get into ‘mythical’ trouble. You’ll probably have some unicorns chasing you across a rainbow.

  • ziggy zoggy

    You absolutely did whine about the Tea Party, and the influence of George, Kalle and OWS on Obama has not waned.

    If you expect to lie for a living, troll, you need to learn some skills.

  • ziggy zoggy

    And this idiotic story makes the Tea Party a bad organization how, exactly?

    Ret@rd.

  • okokok
    • ziggy zoggy

      Number One reason Obama has a 37% approval rating and Congress is at 8%: Obama’s phony shutdown.*

      Number Two reason for the low ratings: The Tea Party.

      *Those approval ratings are inflated.

      • okokok

        hey zigster!

        “Because something is happening here

        But you don’t know what it is

        Do you, Mister Jones ?”

        How does it feel to be a Mr. Jones?