Grappling With Muslim Sex Gangs in Britain


One of the big news stories in Britain last year was the uncovering of what that country’s media insist on calling “Asian sex gangs.” Simply put, groups of “Asian” men turn large numbers of “white” girls into their sex toys, “grooming” them for exploitation and then passing them around to one another. For those unfamiliar with the standard euphemisms of the British press – left-wing and right-wing, highbrow and lowbrow alike – “Asian” and “white” are codes for “Muslim” and “non-Muslim,” respectively. The reason these men can target non-Muslim girls so remorselessly is simple: they know that in their religion’s eyes female infidels are already prostitutes, whose failure to wear veils renders them undeserving of respect and responsible for any sexual act to which they might be unwillingly subjected.

Although it is becoming clear that such “sex gangs” are in operation in a number of places, the focus has been on a group in Rochdale, near Manchester, whose conviction last May made huge headlines. Every bit as deplorable as the abuse they committed is the fact that cops and social workers to whom some of these girls turned for help had chosen for a long time not to do anything about the situation. Former Labour MP Ann Cryer excoriated police officers and people at Child Protective Services who “were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness. They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them.”

Fortunately for the cause of justice, the chief prosecutor who chose to put the sex gang on trial is Nazir Afzal, a man of Pakistani parentage – a fact that in a better world would make no difference one way or another but that, in the world we’re stuck with, enabled him to get away with making straightforward statements of fact that would get a non-Muslim in big trouble. It’s largely because of this invisible Islamic shield that Afzal became, in the words of Jonathan Brown, writing last May in the left-wing Independent, “the public face of the legal system’s determination to stamp out honour-based violence, forced marriage and grooming.” Ordinarily, to be sure, the Independent would prefer not to mention that such things as honor-based violence and forced marriage exist, let alone that they’re part and parcel of Islamic culture; but if someone like Afzal talks bluntly about these matters, it’s willing to nod silently when he points out that they’re real, undesirable – and, yes, Islamic. (Also fortunately for justice, by the way, the judge in the case didn’t have his head in the sand, either, telling defendants that “one of the factors” in their systematic abuse of the girls “is that they were not of your community or religion.”)

Yet no sooner did news about these “sex gangs”  – and of the years-long, sweep-it-under-the-rug approach of pusillanimous public servants – begin to trickle out than the voices of political correctness began to push back. The Daily Mail‘s James Tozer and Nazia Parveen noted an MP’s warning that (in their words) “highlighting the Pakistani origin” of sex gangs risks “giving ammunition to the far-Right.” Similarly, they quoted a Manchester police official as saying that the gangs are “not a racial issue….It just happens that…these were Asian men.” Naturally it’s not about race: it’s about Islam. But some folks are so PC that they can’t even be totally honest about what it is they’re denying.

One likely reason why Brown was willing to describe Afzal, with apparent admiration, as the public face of a war on forced marriage and such – and, I might add, to paraphrase him to the effect that no minority communities should be allowed to offer refuge to men who commit crimes against women” – is that the focus of Brown’s article wasn’t Islam but another “minority community,” one in which “there is still work to do.” (As if all the “work” on Islam were now completed.) Which community? The Travellers, “where children are still married off against their will.” As Afzal told Brown, “I have become aware of massive issues of forced marriage in the Traveller community. It is widespread.” Indeed, Afzal said that for him, the Travellers are “the last bastion”: “We tackled grooming gangs. Now we have to confront forced marriage among Travellers.”

Who are the Travellers? They’re a small, nomadic Gaelic group, often lumped in with gypsies, who have been a part of life in the British Isles for centuries. Full points to Afzal for wanting to protect children from this subculture’s harmful customs. But how palpably, pathetically eager Brown was to grab this opportunity to shift the focus away from Islam! Brown provided an excellent example of the stark difference between the left’s treatment of Islam and – well – its treatment of pretty much everything else. When the subject is Islam, the approach is invariably discreet, delicate, diplomatic: the euphemism “Asian” is religiously reiterated, as is the assertion that (fill in problem here) has nothing to do with group identity. But when the subject is, say, the Travellers, you can feel the clouds of anxiety lifting, and witness the willingness to acknowledge that, yes, there is a cultural issue here that deserves notice. One minor point: the Travellers, unlike Islam, pose no existential threat to British society – or the West generally. “Turning the spotlight on the Traveller community is a typically bold action by Mr Afzal,” wrote Brown. Yeah, right: Afzal’s risking reprisal from all those Traveller terrorist cells.

Anyway, all that was last May. Ever since, Britain’s leftist media have done their best to try to decouple Islam and pederasty in the public mind. Official “reports” have helped. In late September, an Independent editorial, while serving up, en passant, an admission that “the racial [i.e. Islamic] dimension” of the sex gangs merited attention, trained its focus on a new report that dismissed this “dimension” on the grounds “that just 28 per cent” of child sexual abusers in Britain are “Asian.” To which one would reply, first, that massive evidence points to the existence in European Muslim families of child sexual abuse on a monumental scale, with only a tiny percentage of victims ever breathing a word to anyone about their plight; second, that if even the report’s figures were thoroughly legitimate, the manifest eagerness of the left to shift attention away from the long-ignored victims of Muslim sex gangs is obscene.

In November, another “report,” this one by England’s Children’s Commission, sought to (shall we say) contextualize the matter of Muslim sex gangs. Discussing the report (which I wrote about at the time) with the Independent, Sue Berelowitz, who headed the report committee, spun it this way: sexually abused children “are falling through the net because of a pre-occupation with Asian men targeting white girls.” What? After all, “Asian men targeting white girls” is only one of “a number of models”; perpetrators “come from all ethnic groups and so do their victims – contrary to what some may wish to believe.” “Wish to believe”? What does “wishing” have to do with any of this – except for the fact that a small army of public employees tasked with protecting kids spent years trying to wish away the need to confront a small army of Muslim men over their barbaric behavior? Berelowitz’s report was a big hit with her fellow child-aid bureaucrats: one of them called it “a sobering reminder that child sexual exploitation…can happen to any child, in any community”; another hailed it as an affirmation that sexual abuse “can impact on children from any background.” Again, the readiness to return to the see-no-evil status quo ante was as transparent as it was repulsive.

As the months went by, the party line on the sex gangs was endlessly repeated: although MPs had “called for an inquiry into the cultural roots” of the gangs, the Independent‘s editors warned that “[i]t would be as well to be cautious before drawing too general lessons.” (As if a “cautious” approach, on the part of cops and others in authority, hadn’t prolonged so many girls’ suffering!) An Independent contributor, Susan Elkin, agreed: the sex-gang issue, she pronounced, “certainly can’t be categorised as a racial or cultural matter.” But if multicultural orthodoxy made it verboten to finger Islam, it was OK to place the blame elsewhere. Many agreed with Afzal that the sex gangs were “a gender issue,” not a religious or cultural one; in September, one Laurie Penny argued risibly in the Independent that if the authorities had waited so long before helping sex-gang victims, it wasn’t “’in the interests of racial harmony,’ as outlets like The Daily Telegraph continue to claim,” but because those authorities didn’t consider the working-class rape victims “worth protecting”: in short, “[t]he axis of prejudice here is not race, but class.” This low, dishonest denial of reality reached its nadir, perhaps, in a November Guardian piece by Ratna Lachman, head of JUST West Yorkshire, who actually argued that if official Britain, after ignoring Muslim sex gangs for years, had finally brought them to justice, it was because “institutional Islamaphobia has become part of the political culture.” Even a Muslim rapist, then, is ultimately a victim.

“There must never be another Rochdale” read the headline on the Independent‘s September editorial. But the only way to prevent another Rochdale is to be honest about what made it happen. If you sincerely want to protect girls from “Asian sex gangs,” you’ve got to understand, face, and speak the truth about the malefactors’ motivations. A good first step would be for Britons to decide, once and for all, to stop saying “Asian” when everybody knows they mean Muslim.

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  • objectivefactsmatter

    "This low, dishonest denial of reality reached its nadir, perhaps, in a November Guardian piece by Ratna Lachman, head of JUST West Yorkshire, who actually argued that if official Britain, after ignoring Muslim sex gangs for years, had finally brought them to justice, it was because “institutional Islamaphobia has become part of the political culture.”"

    OK. I told you that Islam-o-phobia is healthy. Ratna is insane though. She seems unhappy that Islam-o-phobes care about justice.

  • http://www.adinakutnicki.com AdinaK

    The defiling of "infidel" girls (boys too) is of piece with Islam and Blood – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/13/islam-blood-a

    And the underlying thesis to today's article proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is NO moderate Islam – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/08/21/repeat-until-

    Authentic Islam – as founded by a PEDOPHILE – binds its adherents to material AND physical pillaging and plundering. Yes, it does.

    Adina Kutnicki, Israel – http://adinakutnicki.com/about/

    • JerryMc

      Thanks Adina. Keep up the fight.

    • MikeWood

      Totally agree with you Adina. Islam is forever and completely poisoned by the character of its founder. No amount of phoney moderation can alter this.

    • JacksonPearson

      Islamic clerics that preach the Qur'an, are not only spiritually, but morally corrupt, and so are the sick people that follow them. Why?…..Because no God of moral perfection would ever allow pedophilia, and/or the sexual exploitation of children (boys and girls) like Islam.

    • john

      Islam is not a religion and never was. it is simple an other word for jihad.

      • JacksonPearson

        IMO, these two phrases pretty much sum up Islam:
        First, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan concisely portrays the inherently warlike agenda of mosques by quoting a renowned Islamic poet: “The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, the mosques our barracks, and the faithful our army.”

        Second, Egypt's new president Morsi stated: "The Koran is Our Constitution, the Prophet is Our Leader, Jihad is Our Path, and Death in the Name of Allah is Our Goal."

        • US Muslim

          Yeah, for a simple-minded yokel. Let's just disregard the Qur'an and anything that puts Islam in a positive light. Very insightful and wise of you…

          I don't know who's dumber: You or the Islamist radicals in our midst. It could well turn out to be a tie.

      • US Muslim

        So what are you going to do about it? Outlaw it as it falls outside the 1st Amendment? Ignorant coward…

  • Chanameel

    The Secret…

    Muslim men reincarnate as muslim women.

  • James Millburn

    I disagree.. Your link of Islam to this case is quite misinformed. The Rochdale peadophiles used to drink and use drugs themselves as well as use them to lure vulnerable girls. Islam as a religion does not allow drink or drugs; to quite simple put it. these guys are no more of a representation of islam than Jimmy savile is of the Roman catholics. However if you are to find a link; culture is a valid point. There is a general consensus that the culture mentality of some girls having no respect and somehow commiting such crimes is okay. This is a clash of culture's ; whereby to them girls in general that roamed the street at midnight were messed up in the first place. If you look at all of the Rochdale girls; some were Bangladeshi and muslim but the media wont let that one out. One of the affected victims has a pakistani boyfriend currently and herself says its got nothing to do with religon; but perception of girls and the mixed culture. Look at all the facts before you make a judgement. By the way I am a white male and a researcher for a university but I will not state which one.

    Thanks

    • Rifleman

      The 9/11 hijackers went to strip joints and drank too, and they still mass murdered in the name of allah.

      Your argument there is similar to that of the left in response to the failure of communism everywhere it has been tried. "Those weren't 'real' communists." Like the mythical 'real' commies, the mythical 'real' muslims are yet to appear and take their ideology back from who they claim are the charlatans, and they most likely never will, because the ideology/religion itself is structured so that they don't. We still have to deal with the ugly reality of communism and islam as it is.

      You make some interesting and sound points later in your post. A lot of this is modern life in the big city, gangs in America have been doing pretty much the same thing since the 50s, though they don't justify it and absolve themselves on religious grounds.

      • US Muslim

        You'll find people using all sorts of excuses to justify their anti-social behavior: Religion, slavery, past persecutions and wars, etc. History has a way of cleansing mankind out of its worst elements through wars and bloodshed. We had WWI, WWII, the Cold War, the aftermath of the Cambodian and Rwandan genocides, etc. I believe the next one is just around the corner. It'll be interesting to see who survives it…

    • Paul Blase

      You might want to read "The Arab Mind" by Raphael Patai, a very scholarly work on how Arabs – and by extension Muslims, since Islam is little more than Arabization – think. Sexual perversion is part and parcel of the culture. So long as you do it under the appropriate circumstances and with the proper justifications, you can get away with quite a lot under Islam. The main problem is that the so-called "moderate Muslims" are the ones that are not truly following the tenets of the religion as taught in the Koran and the Hadiths.

      • US Muslim

        The usual nonsense keeps coming from someone based on 2nd and 3rd hand accounts…

        • Paul Blase

          Patai is a scholar who's very familiar with the area. Read the work before criticizing.
          "Raphael Patai was the author of over 600 articles and more than twenty books, including The Jewish Mind, The Seed of Abraham, Jadid al-Islam: The Jewish New Muslims, Of Meshhed, and Arab Folktales from Palestine and Israel. A native of Hungary, he began studying Arabic at the age of nineteen. Before coming to the United States, he lived for fifteen years in Palestine. Director of the Syria-Lebanon-Joran Research Project of the Human Relations Area Files of New Haven, Connecticut, he taught at Princeton, Columbia, and the University of Pennsylvania. A prolific cultural anthropologist, historian, and biblical scholar, Dr. Patai died in 1996."

          • US Muslim

            The whole Yugoslav breakup was initiated by a group of Serb "intellectuals" that released a document that whined about the "persecution" of Serbs by non-Serbs. We all know what happened next.

          • JacksonPearson

            Wrong again. The Serb fighting in Bosnia are the direct result of them still fighting the 1300 hundreds Ottoman invasion, and residue of Muslims that never went home. Simply put, they don't want them in their country, and were expunging them, either peacefully, or forcefully..

    • Western Canadian

      In light of the weak and ignorant comments you have offered, I can understand why a university would not wish you to align yourself publicly with them as a ‘researcher’. You have made no effort to ‘research’ islam, or you have done a truly rotten job of it.

    • filthykafur

      Well James…If you ARE a "Researcher for a university" I must suggest you learn how to spell correctly!

      Secondly, These people not only have a low esteem of "White Meat" and " Uncovered Trash" but they have no regard for our laws, obeying Sharia rather than uk laws. Sharia has no lower age of consent, so they are free to "operate", and females have no say in what goes sexually in their culture, so sexual slavery is ok. Sexual slavery is common in Pakistan even these days.

      You will find that it is you who are quite wrong my friend, these issues are VERY Islamic issues.

    • filthykafur

      Im sorry James
      But these men are EXACTLY Islamic conformers. They do not obey the law of this land in that "you dont rape kids"…but they follow Sharia in that "you CAN rape kids because theres no laws against it, and no lower age for sex"..plus they regard our kids as meat for the taking (according to their imam)*…. I know many mussers who drink and take cannabis too!
      You can compare "cultures" of course too…but theres a DEFO link to Islam in child sex…to deny this would be an injustice.

  • kaz

    lets get real. we cannot acknowledge that muslim gangs are raping the host population, because if we acknowledge that obvious fact, the next thing on the slippery slope to (gasp) islamophobia would be discussing the important question–why are any muslims allowed in any civilized country? we certainly cannot have that discussion, because there is no reason whatsoever to have any muslims in any civilized country, and since we do indeed have entirely too many, the only possible reasonable answer to the problem is to send them home. and we certainly cant do that, can we? that would make sense. the continued tolerance of a superior culture, dedicated to the enslavement, then genocide of all others, certainly does not make any sense, at least not to the members of the inferior culture, who are being groomed, not just for the rape of their women, but for the enslavement and murder of them all.

    • jacob

      As to that of sending these Muslims back, may I remind you that an innocent and quiet minority, not
      a trouble making one by any streak of the imagination as the one being discussed, had SIX MILLION
      of it murdered and nobody gave a hoot then and after either….
      Then may I ask, what stops the UK from deporting all trouble makers back to their origins ?????
      Don't they proclaim that all those opposing ISLAM must be killed…or since when isn't what's good
      for the geese, good for the gender ????????????????????

      • US Muslim

        The troublemakers should be deported. They've got a bunch of pansies running the system over there.

  • kafir4life

    islam is a gutter cult. islam has always been a gutter cult. islam will always be a gutter cult. muslims are gutter cultists. muslims have always been gutter cultists. muslims will always be gutter cultists. mohamat was a pedophile. mohamat has always been a pedophile. mohamat will always be a pedophile.

    • US Muslim

      You got something better? Let's hear it.

      • JacksonPearson

        Sure there's something better, much, much better, e.g., The truth:
        ….Read the Book of "Daniel," and then John on Patmos "Revelation."

        • US Muslim

          I already have the truth: The Qur'an. I will not deny that the Bible contains revelations of God…but the Qur'an summarizes it all and brings it all to one final conclusion. The Bible does make for an interesting read, though…whether it's the Catholic or the King James version. But I dislike the New International Edition…that one reads like some boring storybook and doesn't read like Scripture at all.

          • reader

            Your truth beats Hitler's truth in ever way – particularly, in time:
            http://www.amazon.com/Al-Yahud-Eternal-Islamic-En

          • US Muslim

            Just reading a summary of it says it all. Historically, Muslims have confirmed the ancient claims of Jews to the land of Israel. The 2nd Caliph, Omar, knew this when he reopened Jerusalem to Jewish settlement after the Christian Byzantines had kicked the Jews out of the city.

          • Western Canadian

            As someone else who has read the vile and disgusting koran (not interested in PC spelling), there is no question that anyone who thinks that that vile and disgusting load of swill is in anyway the ‘truth’, would have to be a sociiopathic criminal. It is a fabricated collection of hate filled and vicious rants, calls to murder and rape. If that is your ‘truth’, we need know nothing else about you.

          • US Muslim

            So I'm a criminal now? For believing in a book, no matter how "vile" it is to you? You, kid, are beyond cowardly. Come and get me then and have me arrested, if you dare! I wonder what I will be charged with? Stupid Nazi…we kicked your a$$es back in the 1940s and will do it again if you push us. Apparently you've learned nothing from the past…but I don't expect more from people with insect brains.

          • Brokenstriker

            "we" who kicked whose ass in 1940? I have no reason to think you are a criminal. I do think you would benefit from a more detailed review of alliances in the 1940's. The only one I can think of that involves Canada is WWII. Canada and its allies did not lose WWII. Muslims did not align unilaterally with either side as some allied with the "Allies" and some with the "Axis" nations.

          • US Muslim

            Let's see…the Germans, the Italians, and the Japanese.

            I know my history. You have said nothing here that I have not known for decades already.

          • Brokenstriker

            Are you saying that "we" kicked the Germans, the Italians and the Japanese, and asserting that your Canadian friend is included in that group? The Canadians kicked the Germans, Italians and Japanese's asses as well. I guess you are saying he's a Nazi. How do you justify that designation?

          • US Muslim

            OK, let me explain in a manner that you'll understand.

            It was the ideology of the Germans was what was ultimately defeated in WWII. But it tends to rear its ugly head now and again, and just about everywhere, among people of all races, ethnic backgrounds and religions, including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc….the ideology of supremacy of one group of humans over another because of race, ethnicity and/or religious beliefs. That's what YOUR Canadian friend appears to subscribes to.

          • JacksonPearson

            "I already have the truth: The Qur'an."
            No you don't, the Qur'an is far from the truth. Why?…Among other things, Muhammad's own admission in the Satanic verses that's why. Muslims don't know which other parts of the Qur'an were Satanic inspired, in fact in my opine, the whole Qur'an is pure evil from hell. Add, no God of moral perfection would ever advocate the killing of other human beings.

            Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. Source: Islamic history of Muhammad, found right in the Qur'an. Why? Because Allah was Muhammad, and Muhammad was Allah.

          • US Muslim

            Yes I do…you got a problem with that? Tough.

            "no God of moral perfection would ever advocate the killing of other human beings. "
            Oh, sure…God NEVER ordered the slaughter of those who worshipped the Golden Calf when Moses went up on the mountain to receive the Ten Commandments. And the Book of Deuteronomy was not meant to be added in the Old Testament. And Joshua NEVER razed the city of Jericho and had ALL of its inhabitants put to the sword.

            I know my history. You think I'm so stupid that I don't. Either you're incredibly stupid or deceitful. Not only did Muhammad never claim to be Allah, there are passages that admonished anyone from considering Muhammad to be anything more than an ordinary human being with a few special gifts and abilities of his own.

            In order for you to make the claims that you have made here, you must walk with your eyes closed and blind yourself to the truth, as so many of your "brethren" have done over a thousand years. You must lie about Islam and Muhammad in order to justify your own shallow faith in God. I, on the other hand, am not afraid to seek out the truth. You, on the other hand, have reason to fear the truth, as it would shatter your shallow foundation like brittle twigs holding up a rock.

            I don't expect anything from you. Don't think you can move me one bit with your anti-Islamic arguments. You only confirmed what I have known about your kind, and what the Qur'an has to say about your kind. Have a nice day.

          • JacksonPearson

            Other than Muhammad laying on the ground and having epileptic seizures, there's nobody that could verify his WET DREAMS, NOBODY. Muhammad was told stories by Jewish scholars about the Old Testament and he neatly morphed the angel Gabriel into his terrorist scam.

            Tradition tells us that Muhammad had not foreseen his death, and so he had made no preparations for gathering his revelations. He left it up to his followers to sift through the conflicting versions. That’s astonishing.

            Islam’s lone “prophet” left his Qur’an as vapor, sound waves that had long since faded. Bragging one day, the imposter called his surahs a miracle: Bukhari:V6B61N504 “Muhammad said, ‘Every Prophet was given miracles because of which people believed. But what I have been given is Divine Inspiration which Allah has revealed to me. So I hope that my followers will outnumber the followers of the other Prophets.’”If the Qur’an was his only “miracle, ”why would he leave it in such horrid condition? I believe the answer is clear. Muhammad knew his recitals had been nothing more than a figment of his less than-admirable imagination, situational scriptures designed to satiate his cravings. Preserving these recitals would only serve to incriminate him, as this Hadith suggests. Muslim:C24B20N4609 “The Messenger said: ‘Do not take the Qur’an on a journey with you, for I am afraid lest it would fall into the hands of the enemy.’ Ayyub, one of the narrators in the chain of transmitters, said: ‘The enemy may seize it and may quarrel with you over it.’”

            A number ofBukhari Hadith suggest that Muhammad’s companions tried to remember what they could of what he had said, but there was a problem. Like today,those who knew the Qur’an were militants. So Abu Bakr feared that large portions would be forgotten. The best Muslims were dying on the battlefield subduing fellow Arabs. In one battle alone,most of the Qur’an’s most knowledgeable reciters were lost,and many Qur’anic passages along with them.

            Bukhari:V6B60N201 “Zaid bin Thabit, the Ansari said, ‘Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Muhammad’s Companions were killed). Umar was present with Bakr. “The people have suffered heavy casualties at Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among those who can recite the Qur’an on other battlefields. A large part of the Qur’an may be lost unless you collect it.” I replied to Umar, “How can I do something which Allah’s Apostle has not done?”

            In a nutshell, lots of made up, garbled-mouth-to-mouth, un-recorded fairy tales.

          • US Muslim

            Yeah, yeah, new generation, same old recycled slanders, misinterpretations, etc. against Islam and Muhammad. What, can't convince me that you have any intelligence in that pea-brain of yours? Do you actually think blabbering out a bunch of 2nd and 3rd hand accounts on Islam from proven liars move me at all? What exactly are you trying to achieve here? You make no sense at all.

          • JacksonPearson

            "I already have the truth" No you don't have the truth.

            One third (1/3) of the old Testament is prophecy, of which have already and have factually come true. Your unholy Qur'an have zero prophecies, none, nada, nothing but utter made up garble.

          • US Muslim

            I believe your mind was already made up about the Qur'an before you picked it up to read it…if you ever read. That's not being objective but an intellectual coward. You Bible doesn't scare me at all, nor does it trouble me in any way. I would actually encourage my fellow Muslims to read it with an open mind, preferably in the original Hebrew. Too many things get lost when the original texts a re translated into another language.

            Zero prophesies in the Qur'an? You must have missed the one below, which is one of many. Either you're being deceitful here or totally ignorant of the Qur'an:

            Qur'an 17:104
            "And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations."

          • JacksonPearson

            Palm on forehead, eyes rolling up, {{{{sigh}}}}, A quote from the Bible is NOT a Qur'anic prophecy. Do you even understand what the term prophecy mean?

            The Qur'an was compiled and rag-tagged written from here-say by four men about 850 years after the death of Christ. Islamic biographers DID NOT have one scrap of paper, rock, leaf, goat skin that was recorded or authored by Muhammad….NONE. Oral verses were handed down from generation to generation. Other then from the surrounding Jews that resided in Mecca and Medina, where in the hell do you think if any, Bible quotes in the Qur'an came from? Muhammad was illiterate and couldn't read or write! Why would God, via the angel Gabreil leave such important messages with such an illiterate dunce like Muhammad???

            "Islam provides only one prime source of information on Muhammad and the formation of Islam written within two centuries of the time he lived and it was conceived. Ishaq’s Sira, or Biography, stands alone—a singular and tenuous thread connecting us to a very troubled man and time. Over the next two hundred years, other Hadith Collections were compiled by the likes of Tabari, Bukhari, and Muslim. Their assemblages of oral reports, or Traditions, were said to have been inspired by Allah. They purport to convey Muhammad’s words and example. They also explain the Qur’an—a book so deficient in context and chronology, it can only be understood when seen through the eyes of the Sunnah writers."

          • US Muslim

            And guess what…the New Testament wasn't written down until at least 150 years after Jesus left the world.

            OK, here's a little lecture to a moron: Why do you think the Qur'an is considered to be a miracle? The way I see it, I don't know of anyone who authored or even plagiarized a book and couldn't read or write in the first place. So Muhammad could not have "authored" the Qur'an.

            I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me. But I will throw your stupid, immature, slanderous, 2nd and 3rd hand accounts right back at your face and let you know that I'm not moving from where I stand. Your efforts to convince me that you're right will all be wasted. Perhaps you can go out to Israel and convince the Jews there that their Messiah has come and gone already, and that they should believe in him…he was, after all, one of them to begin with anyway. If you can't even do that, why would you even bother to waste your time with me? Just one piece of advice: Proselytizing is illegal in Israel, so you better have a backup plan in case you get arrested there and subsequently deported. May I suggest the Jewish communities throughout the USA? Especially up in NYC…

          • Brokenstriker

            deported … executed … again … interesting contrast

          • US Muslim

            What, nothing left to say? Ta-ta.

          • JacksonPearson

            In the West, Muhammad’s critics are quick to claim that he was either possessed by demons or suffering from mental illness or he was a conscious fraud. We have no concrete evidence to support one of these claims and discard others; but at least we all agree to the point that, there was certainly something wrong with Muhammad. The Western scholars judge the Prophet by the standards of human morality and conscious. But Muslims’ thinking is different. From their point of view they have accepted Muhammad as a ‘superior being’ and ‘the mercy of God among mankind’ (Sina, 2008, p. 6).

            Though Muslims dismiss all attacks on their faith as anti-Islamic polemic and a calculated and deliberate misrepresentation of their religion from Christian prejudice and Zionist-instigated ill will but the irony is that; even if we reject and leave aside all these Western scholars and depend only on authentic traditional sources for information, we still cannot find anything which suggests that Muhammad was a ‘superior being’ or ‘the mercy of God among mankind’ but we have thousands of accounts that do portray him a psychopath criminal.

          • US Muslim

            You do not possess the intelligence nor the intellectual capacity to judge Muhammad and Islam…your faith in God is shaky at best. Pray for His guidance and that He doesn't try you…I doubt your faith will survive even a small test. You failed here, anyway, and this wasn't even a test for you to begin with.

          • Brokenstriker

            Jackson … give US Muslin a break! Didn't you realize that the Jinn have endorsed his Qur'an and it's god? How could anyone take issue with a god and a book that are endorsed by demons? That ought to be enough to tell you just how true its teachings are, and whose they are.

          • Brokenstriker

            A. you don't know me B. I am not hiding my true beliefs C. I am not hiding behind a mask. D. "a blow?" are you suggesting that I am a homosexual, or that I engage in a sexual act with a stranger?

            How am I tearing down your religion? Am I wrong about the Jinn?

          • US Muslim

            You only know what you truly are. But you would never make me think you're religious or smart…I've seen far better.

            You have been attempting to tear down Islam with a bunch of half-truths and outright lies. But I know better.

            As for the Jinn, what I do know about them is that they are a creation of God. Like Man, they are fallible. Satan is one of them. But they are not all bad. What has been said about them is that those of us who are astray seek their protection. They, like mankind, will face the ultimate Judgment of God.

          • JacksonPearson

            The Bible is the actual, eye witnessed , recorded, 3000 year history, of the Word of God. Whereas Islam, are the 20 year delusional, unproven, and made up rants of an epileptic, insane misfit.

          • US Muslim

            Says someone obsessed with trying to bring down Islam and who can make only the shallowest arguments about his own faith.

            Unlike you, I'm not obsessed with bringing down other religions. I found happiness in mine…but you obviously haven't found it in yours. That is one explanation I can think of as to why you want to tear down Islam and Muhammad.

            I pity you…life must suck big time for you.

      • Lan Astaslem

        9/11 pal

        • US Muslim

          Very intellectual of you. Am I to then ignore all of the misdeeds of people of other religions who have committed mass murder in the name of their respective religions??

          Let me educate you. 9/11 was carried out by 19 scumbags who thought they were better than everyone else. They claimed to be Muslims, as do the Osamites. I am a Muslim, not an Osamite. And as for those 72 virgins they were expecting, I hope that the last thing they saw before they crashed those planes with all those people on board was the mouth of hell yawning wide open to swallow them and keep them inside forever.

          • jonmc

            You have point: members of all religions (and none) have committed mass murder in the name of those religions/states/systems etc.
            But the question to ask is this: are their actions aligned with their professed belief (here including communism etc.) or opposed to it?
            There is a ample sufficiency of "verses of violence" in the Koran, particularly in the last Suras of the recitation – and, therefore, not subject to abrogation unlike so many peaceful verses, that I'm quite sure that the 9/11 bombers, along with the Balix2 bombers, Madrid, U.K. 7/7 and (failed) 21/7 attacks, along with Luxor massacre etc., etc., ALL felt justified by Islam in doing what they did.
            As Mark Durie wrote: "when you have reformation in Islam, you get Wahhabism and al Qu'ida".

          • US Muslim

            That's nonsense. That's like saying guns kill people.

            I am a Muslim and take my faith very seriously. My understanding has evolved over the years, but one thing hasn't: It's that Islam is the truth and the way to God. I have been in no way compelled to carry out a murder or murders for any reason…and knowing what I know is in the Qur'an, I would be scared to take another human life, unless some schmuck tried to break into my home. I would have to make that person into a cockroach in my mind's eye before having the guts to pull the trigger on him, and only for the sake of protecting my home and my family.

          • JacksonPearson

            ISLAM: The Religion of Peace (and a big stack of dead bodies)
            Islamic Terrorists Have Carried out More Than 20,032 Deadly Terror Attacks Since 9/11

            Wherever Islam Spread, Darkness Follows with Death and Destruction

          • US Muslim

            "Wherever Islam Spread, Darkness Follows with Death and Destruction"

            Yeah, like the "Dark Ages" that lasted for hundreds of years in Europe. Oh, wait…Christianity was fully entrenched there. So why didn't Christianity lift Europe from the Dark Ages? Or did it actually PROLONG the Dark Ages there? And while that was going on, the Golden Age was in full flower throughout the Muslim-ruled world. One must note that the Dark Ages in Europe came to an end only after Crusaders returning from the Middle East brought back with them all sorts of new ideas and a new mode of thinking. Perhaps Islam helped to lift Europe from the Dark Ages indirectly? This convinces me of the power of Islam and the futility of Christianity.

            Thanks for bringing that one up.

          • Brokenstriker

            OK … understand … you are a faithful Muslim, and do not advocate violence (except for that time you said you would "love" to have the Christians and Mullahs fight to the death and then personally make sure none left that confrontation alive).

            Why is jonmc's question nonsense? The question was "are their actions aligned with their professed belief … or opposed to it?" I think what being asked, and what I'm trying to understand is "does Islam endorse those actions?" If you have an opinion or insights we'd like to know given that you profess to be a Muslim. Personally I'm curious due to the apparent and shocking shortage (note I did not say absense) of Islamic outrage and condemnation of these actions and continued support of things such as suicide-murders.

          • Western Canadian

            ‘scumbags who thought they were better than everyone else’ Sounds like any typical hard core muslim. As for the claim that all other groups have committed mass murder, your ignorance is showing. And of those who have spilled blood, none even come close to the mass slaughter over 14 centuries that islam has so joyfully inflicted on the human race.

          • US Muslim

            "none even come close to the mass slaughter over 14 centuries that islam has so joyfully inflicted on the human race."

            Oh, really? where did you get your numbers? Some pie in the sky??

            Debating delusional idiots like you is an exercise in futility. You must be a product of that Canadian government educational system that I've heard so much about.

          • Brokenstriker

            how about we look at the last few years … since the information is both available and easier to check out … supposedly this site is relatively well sourced (note specific sources for their "Islams latest contributions to peace" are available for request apparently). http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

          • US Muslim

            None of that means anything to me. I could put together a list of all the atrocites committed by the KKK, WWII-era German Nazis and their European allies and the Apartheid-era government in S. Africa and make the claim "Barbarity of Christians" in the header.

            Nice try, but shallow and futile at best.

          • Brokenstriker

            and you would have a list of the acts of barbarians … you would not have a list of acts endorsed by Christ, or the Bible.

            is the murder of infidels endorsed by Mohammad or the Qur'an? The failings and shortcomings of followers does not represent the principles of the theology, it represents only the followers failings. Many Christians fail, as I assume many Muslims fail, it seems that is a position you have also taken. My question is what is the position of Islam.

          • US Muslim

            I know what Muhammad would have endorsed and what he would have opposed. Let us not forget that when he had a chance to exact revenge on his oldest and worst enemies in Mecca when he conquered the city, he did no such thing and granted amnesty to everyone there, except for a few criminals. Such a thing was unheard of at the time for a victorious military leader, especially one who had suffered as much as Muhammad and his followers had at the hands of his enemies. To me, that is the ultimate example of mercy that ALL Muslims SHOULD emulate: to be gracious at a time of victory to the enemy.

          • JacksonPearson

            "Let me educate you. 9/11 was carried out by 19 scumbags who thought they were better than everyone else.

            BS, let me educate you….9/11 were Arab Muslims that were carrying out the exact instructions being taught to them from the unholy Qur'an and your faux Muhammad's teachings. They were being good Muslims, nothing more, or nothing less. Again why?….:

            “These descriptions are very ugly. It is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam, and that’s it.”
            – Turkey’s Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

          • US Muslim

            I don’t need to be “educated” by an obvious idiot. You obviously cannot be educated as you’re not intelligent enough to qualify to be educated.

            You don’t know what you’re talking about. I know my faith. You obviously don’t. I don’t take lectures on Islam from mullahs and semi-educated anti-Muslim pseudo-”intellectuals” like yourself and Robert Spencer. Unlike you, I don’t have to tear down someone else’s religious beliefs in order to prop up my own.

            My very existence bothers you, doesn’t it? On the other hand, I couldn’t care less if you worshipped a man impaled on a crucifix or not, or even his mom.

            People like myself have been fighting wars against Muslim fundies and extremists a lot longer than you have. The mullahs who are trying to kill you now were initially armed and financed by YOUR governments. We warned you against them but you dismissed us. Then 9/11 happened. Even now we are trying to help you against them, but halfwits like yourself prefer to lump us along with them as you do not possess the will nor the wit to get to the bottom of it all and win this thing.

          • JacksonPearson

            You're just like we believed, a person that can't stand the truth or facts. But instead, have to sit back and pout, rant, and use taqiyya like Muhammad taught you to do. You're not a free thinking human being anymore, but an Islamic enslaved robot.

            Anyway, over the next two hundred years,other Hadith Collections were compiled by the likes of Tabari,Bukhari, and Muslim. Their assemblages of oral reports, or Traditions, were said to have been inspired by Allah. They purport to convey Muhammad’s words and example. They also explain the Qur’an a book so deficient in context and chronology, it can only be understood when seen through the eyes of the Sunnah writers. If you're not a Sunnah writer, than you don't even understand what you're reading or what your cleric is force feeding you.

          • US Muslim

            It's YOU who can't stand truth or facts. You constantly brush aside inconsistencies in your own beliefs and are too busy pointing out what you see are fallacies in others.

            So what is your view on Jews? Hindus? Buddhists? What place do they occupy in the Hereafter? This will be interesting to know…let's all hear it from you.

          • JacksonPearson

            It is true that much of the Ahadith was fabricated before Imam Bukhari made his compilation. As example, Ibn Abi-I-Awja (executed 772 CE for apostasy) confessed before his death that he had fabricated more than four thousand Ahadith, in which he forbade Muslims what was in fact permitted and vice versa and he made Muslims to break the fast when they should have been fasting (Warraq, 2003, p. 45). Awja’s case is just one example. There are instances where many Ahadith were invented to serve the political purposes of the Umayyad, the Abbasids and later dynasties of Caliphs and handing down of the traditions went downwards to the level of a business enterprise (Goldziher, 1971, p. 169) as a means of livelihood. A large amount of non Islamic material was drawn into by the compilers which even included sayings of Buddhist wisdom, Roman stories and verses from the Zoroastrians, Jewish and Christian scriptures and even Greek philosophy (Gibb, 1969, p. 51). Soon the number of Ahadith already in circulation and still being invented became unimaginable. As one Muslim authority wrote, ‘in nothing do we see pious man more given to falsehood than in the traditions’ (Nicholson, 1969, p.145). So it was urgently necessary to compile an authentic collection. The best-known and most authoritative compilation is by Bukhari. It is said that Bukhari had examined a total of 6,00,000 traditions. He preserved some 7,000 (including traditions), which means he rejected some 593,000 as inauthentic (Crone, 1987, p. 33). But since many of them were repeated, there remained only about 2760 in total. Second only to Bukhari’s collection is the work of Muslim Ibn al-Hajaj, which contains three thousand traditions. These compilations are believed to be Sahih Hadith (authentic traditions).

            With much disappointment to the Muslims, the above five oldest and most trusted Islamic sources don’t portray Muhammad a ‘superior being’ or any kind of ‘the mercy of God among mankind’. The sources reveal that he was a thief, a liar, an assassin, a pedophile, a shameless womanizer, a promiscuous husband, a rapist, a mass murderer, a desert pirate, a warmonger but a ruthless tyrant. It’s certainly not the character profile of the founder of a true religion.

            So get on your knees five times a day, bend over, and worship your thieving, lying, mass murder, faker, extortionist, terrorist, faux prophet, pedophile role model! Allah was Muhammad and Muhammad was Allah period

          • US Muslim

            Shows again how little you know about Islam and Muhammad. But you're not worth wasting another lecture on. Go and worship your Jesus…to us he was a great man who never claimed to be God, not even in the Bible. Try preaching your dribble to the Jews…they don't believe in your "Trinity", either. Yet they use the same Old Testament as you. Perhaps they know something that you obviously don't?

            Even if I were to leave Islam, there is no way that I would accept Christianity. I would tilt towards Judaism before any other religion…they're pretty close to Islam when it comes to knowing who and what God really is.

          • Brokenstriker

            You would love to make sure no one left alive? Didn't you say you were against violence earlier? You've crossed a serious line here US Muslim. And you've introduced some serious questions about your positions in general.

          • US Muslim

            That was just a thought. Such a thing would be illegal, anyway.

          • US Muslim

            Just as a preschooler is not qualified to educate a college engineering professor in nuclear thermodynamics, you're not qualified to educate me in Islam or even Christianity. I know what the Qur'an has to say. And if you think that the 9/11 hijackers were following Qur'anic instructions, you're as dumb and as unintelligent as they are.

          • Brokenstriker

            Why are they scumbags? Is it OK to kill infidels, or is it not OK?

          • US Muslim

            "Why are they scumbags?" Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? Why are mass murderers scumbags? Is that the most intelligent question you can ask here?

            And no, it is NOT OK to kill infidels. But I do believe it is OK to kill someone who is out to harm an innocent person, infidel or not. And I believe I have a right to kill someone who threatens me or my household with physical harm…I live in the heart of red state America where the 2nd Amendment holds sway and the nearest Obama-voting county is more than 100 miles away.

          • Brokenstriker

            you seem to be obsessed with asserting that other people aren't intelligent, or aren't as intelligent as you are. I'm asking that question to understand if you are calling them scumbags because they simply because they murdered people, or because they murdered people to honor their god, both, other reasons. I'm asking to better understand what you mean. There is no cause to be insulting about my intelligence.

            please … explain why the Qur'an instructs Muslims to behead infidels, or that it doesn't

          • US Muslim

            FYI, I have friends who are more intelligent and better human beings than I am, and many of them are not even Muslims. Most people, you included, don't seem to pass that test with your posts here.

            The 9/11 hijackers are scumbags because they were mass murderers. And more so because they saw it as a "religious duty". I have a deep-seated sense of disgust and revulsion towards "Muslims" who would either do such things or support such actions as I see such acts as abominations that may not be forgivable in this life OR in the Afterlife.

        • JacksonPearson

          You're confusing him with big words.

          • US Muslim

            OK, try to convince me that what you have is the truth with regard to whatever religion you follow. Although I don't think I'll like it…it allows you to slander the faith of others, obviously. My religion frowns down on lying in all cases except when attempting to save an innocent life.

            My faith in God will beat yours any day. I can defend mine. You have to try to tear down my beliefs in order to make yours look good. Learn much from Obama lately?

          • Brokenstriker

            Dear US Muslim,
            If you are truly interested, please read Islam Reviewed, by M. Ali. You can find this book on line at this website address http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_reviewed_cont…. You might find it interesting, and perhaps it will shed light on things in an "enlightening" way. I apologize if you find it offensive, I hope you don't and the author certainly didn't mean it to be offensive, but I understand that you are convicted in your position on this subject and this type of information will most certainly be challenging.

          • US Muslim

            No I don't find it offensive. I just find it to be another piece of pseudo-intellectual mummery that tries to do end-runs around logic and reason in order to justify a point of view in a rather subjective manner while trying to give an impression of objectivity. A pretty poor job at best.

            In such a case, why don't you look up the book "Muhammad: Prophet and Statesman" by Montgomery Watt? This fellow happens to be a pretty strong Christian and wrote a surprisingly objective account on Muhammad and his life based on ancient texts and his own conclusions. I may not agree with him 100%, but he did raise some interesting points that would be worth considering. A truly intellectual piece of work, in my view.

      • SuniShiaSalfiWahabi

        Western Civilization is better.

        We don't have Bacha bazi. True we are not perfect, but we are a lot closer than Islamic societies.

        What I see is that of Islam wins, humanity succumbs to entropy, the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

        Of course that will be okay because people will pray 5 times a day until the bitter end.

        • US Muslim

          Muslims were once at the forefront of civilization, all the way up to the time of the Mongol conquests. Medical techniques and practices in the Muslim world between 800 and 900 AD did not appear in the West until after 1800. What killed Islamic civilization was the stifling grip of a bunch of semi-educated, screeching mullahs and bloodthirsty, greedy tyrants.

          • jonmc

            I agree with you here – the closing of the door to ijtihad slowly stifled Islamic culture and civilisation.

          • US Muslim

            Thank you. Looks like there are people here who aren't afraid of dealing with historical facts after all.

          • Gabrielle

            "What killed Islamic civilization IS the stifling grip of a bunch of semi-educated, screeching mullahs and bloodthirsty, greedy tyrants"?

            Which I am sorry to say still exists today and is spreading through violence in the Middle East. Here in the West your screeching Mullahs have discovered that our own laws and tolerance works very well against us as they systematically destroy our civilization too. It is apparent that you and your fellow Muslims have no intention of changing them and instead have decided that we must change? I often read of the "moderate Muslim" but I am afraid that the "moderate Muslim" who wishes to live in peace is as elusive as the goldern unicorn and just as quiet.

            The so-called "moderate" Muslim sends the message that while you may be loath to pick up a weapon and kill the infidel yourself, you are not at all disturbed when the radical does. After all the goal of the moderate, the extreme, and the semi-educated, screeching mullahs is all the same you are here to dominate and convert the world to Islam.

          • Gabrielle

            *more*

            I had a Muslim friend and I asked him what would he do if we were faced with an angry mob wishing to kill me because of my faith and race? He said he would quickly move me to another place. I asked, suppose there was no "other" place? He thought for a very long moment and then said, "If only you would read the Koran? You would find the "truth" and Islam would bring you such peace." So the answer again is that I must change to accommodate who they at the expense of who I am. I say, NO.

          • US Muslim

            If I were your friend, I would have you open up the Qur'an and start reading it. If the mob came over to kill you, I would tell them that you were studying to become a Muslim, and that you were seriously considering becoming a Muslim, and they should leave you alone. At that point, they SHOULD leave you alone and go away, and when the danger has passed, get you out of there and personally take you to a place where I would know that you would be out of harm's reach, preferably to be among people who would be able to protect you. You would be under no obligation to accept Islam.

            But if the mob insisted on killing you, they would have to kill me first. I just hope to have a flamethrower and a machine gun with lots of ammo with me at that point.

          • US Muslim

            You are wrong here. People like myself detest violence. People like myself have nothing against non-Muslims who leave us alone, but we've got a HUGE problem with the radicals amongst us. And many of them have been propped up by your own Western governments through diplomacy and oil money. And Muslim extremists hate us more than they hate you, because we stand in their way and can cut their legs at the knees when it comes to making philosophical and moral arguments against mass murder based on Qur'anic passages and precedents set for over the last 1,400 years. But it is they who make for better ratings on TV channels.

          • Brokenstriker

            again … the impression I have is that the Qur'an has numerous passages advocating even commanding violence especially towards (maybe exclusively towards) infidels … I am not an expert on the Qur'an so I'm asking you … how do you, a professed non-violent person, deal with this? How do you take some but not all of the Qur'an (assuming that the Qur'an does advocate violence)? How could it be holy but also include portions that aren't (if that is the case)?

            if all you want to talk about is that you are a good person, a faithful Muslim, convicted in your position … and that everyone else is a "moron" or unintelligent, etc. Then fine I think I've got a good grasp on that. If you're open to discussion … then please … explain.

          • US Muslim

            Very easy…

            Certain verses were meant to address certain situations at certain times in certain places. The Qur'an was never meant to be taken literally in its entirety…there are passages in the Qur'an that directly make mention of this.

            The ultimate goal in Islam is to maintain a proper balance between war and peace, freedom and slavery, persecution and religious tolerance and so on, and ultimately lead to a just , moral and free society where the authority of God is recognized, and where tyranny by humans no longer exists. The USA is a close-to-being-perfect example of this. Even though the USA is not a Muslim country, the US Constitution is the closest thing to a truly "Islamic" constitution.

          • Western Canadian

            Muslim medicine etc lead the west or the orient??? Complete and utter fiction. Islam has NEVER been an innovative, forward looking or analytic culture. It has almost always been hostile and parasitic, and any advancements made in science or any other area in muslim ‘cultures’, has usually been accomplished by the victim culture, that islam was destroying. Get real.

          • US Muslim

            Like I said…I don't really expect much from someone with your level of govt. funded "education".

          • JacksonPearson

            Okay then, other than drinking camel urine a la Muhammad, and hatred being taught in Islam's madrasas ,exactly what brands and types of medicines have Muslims contributed to the betterment of humanity? Tell us?

          • US Muslim

            "Camel urine"?? That passage was of dubious origin to say the best.

            Let's see…
            Dental hygiene: Muhammad was big on this, even back in his day. He was known to use a kind of twig to clean out his teeth and even between them.

            Diet: He made comments about what kind of food is beneficial and others that do more harm unless taken in smaller quantities. He has been vindicated by modern science in this regard.

            Fasting: This has been known to have a cleansing effect on the human body. So it's not just for faith reasons that one ought to fast for certain days in a year.

            And there's more…
            Medicine in the Muslim world was a real science, unlike in Christian Europe where the practice of medicine was FORBIDDEN by popes one after another. Ibn Sina, otherwise known as Avicenna in the West, was a pioneering figure in the treatment of various ailments, including complicated eye surgeries and the use of fire to sterilize surgical instruments.

            Look up words like Algebra and Chemistry. They have Arabic roots. And the numerals we use all the time? Had the Arabs not gone into India, the numerals used there, including the concept of the number zero, would have taken a lot longer to reach Europe. But the popes there FORBADE the use of "Islamic" numerals, even though they were not truly "Islamic" in origin. You guys were stuck with trying to do math using Roman numerals which wouldn't have gotten you very far.

            Ever heard of stars like Rigel, Antares, Betelgeuse, Altair and so many others? These are all Arabic names.

            Need I go on?

          • JacksonPearson

            "Muslims were once at the forefront of civilization"

            The Arab world was doing just fine until Muhammad forced at the point of a sword, his epileptic wet dreams onto the population of the Saudi peninsula.

            Muhammad was a pirate, thief, mass murderer, pedophile, polygamist, extortionist, liar, slaver, terrorist, sexual predator, and ever since, that part of the world have been at war with civilization. And till this day, criminal minded Muhammad is a role model that fools like you are following. If not, than you're just another infidel!

          • US Muslim

            "The Arab world was doing just fine until Muhammad forced at the point of a sword,"
            Sure, the following were all just Islamic propaganda with regard to pre-Islamic Arabia:
            1. Arab boys were valued far more than girls. In many cases when a girl was born, the parents would bury the child alive in the desert in order to hide their "shame".
            2. Promiscuity was rampant. Public nakedness was considered to be no big deal (I'm talking about stuff that could get you arrested even in NYC in the heat of summer, but not in Vermont)
            3. Idol worship was common, and human sacrifice was practiced.
            4. Murder was not a crime. Society was clan-based, and so anyone belonging to a powerful or rich clan could get away with just about anything, including murder and rape. There were few laws that people in general agreed with, and these were not usually enforced.
            5. Polygamy was practiced and had no limits. A man could take up as many wives as he wanted. When he died, his eldest son would inherit all he owned…including his wives, other than his mother.

            The allegations you made here don't apply. Had Muhammad lived here in the 21st century, he would have been an ordinary law-abiding citizen in his place of residence.

            But, of course, I don't expect an obvious retard to have the ability to grasp that concept.

            OK…now please insert another floppy disk in your disk drive…I must have filled up your brain with way too much information to be processed by that Intel 286 that you call your brain.

          • US Muslim

            No matter how you would like me to be regarded as an infidel, you won't move me. What matters is what GOD thinks of me, not my fellow man. And certainly not hysterical shrills like yourself and the screaming, boy-screwing, goat-screwing mullahs in various madrassas. If What they think of me doesn't bother me, why should what you think of me bother me at all?

          • JacksonPearson

            At one time, Arab civilization was peaceful. Then Muhammad showed up, and in about 620AD when he went insane and forced his will on his neighbors at the point of a sword, since then, that civilization have gone down the toilet and are still in the sewer. It's estimated that since Islam's inception, 270 million of the world's population have been slaughtered, in the name of Allah/Muhammad! And you're just as proud as a frog singing on a pond to be part of that faux religion of peace. Shame on you!

            Hatred is not the answer. If anything, I am anti-hatred. That's why I am trying to expose Islamic teachings: Shari'a law includes a system of legally-mandated hatred. Mohammad is their model, and he expressed hatred toward non-Muslims. He maligned them, robbed them, tortured them, killed them, raped them, and took them as slaves. Muslims are supposed to follow his example. It says so in the Qur'an 91 times. If YOU don't follow Allah/Muhammad, than you're an infidel…PERIOD

          • US Muslim

            "Hatred is not the answer. If anything, I am anti-hatred. That's why I am trying to expose Islamic teachings"

            You're a liar and a fraud and don't know what you're talking about. I have no hatred in my heart…only pity for fools like you. It is you who is hateful and in violation of the teachings of Jesus. The way I see it, I hope to embrace him in the Hereafter.

            I do follow the teachings of Allah in the Qur'an as He revealed them to Muhammad, and by the example he set but in a proper, time-adjusted context. Some of his practices may seem unsavory to many at this time, but the core teachings, principles, and concepts with regard to God haven't changed at all, ever.

            That latter bit is something that pea-brain of yours can't grasp. Tch…

          • JacksonPearson

            "Muslims were once at the forefront of civilization, all the way up to the time of the Mongol conquests."

            When, what and where??? Other than darkness, death, and destruction, Muslims haven't contributed diddle sh*t!

          • US Muslim

            Yeah, yeah…let's just erase all the gains made by Western Civilizations since the end of the "Dark Ages" thanks to all the knowledge and stuff brought back to Europe by returning Crusaders.

      • Boko Haram

        One of the worst things about Islam is polygamy.

        It doesn't work in Bountiful, British Columbia. The people are on welfare. It doesn't work in the American Southwest, see the documentary "Lost Boys". Polygamy leads to homosexuality. Economists have shown that homosexual activity goes up when people are poor. Polygamist hoard the money get the women & then you have a whole class of guys with nothing. Better tear down the people who do not pay fair wages & do not practice zakat. Better to be hung for going against the defilers than for homosexuality.

        We have polygamy in the U.S. It is a matter of degree. We need to purge it. Former governor Spitzer engaged in polygamy. Having a mistress is so similar to polygamy. They just have not convinced this society to codify it into law yet.

        Islam also wastes the intellectual capital of women.

        Muslims are not without sin & yet they cast the 1st stone with wild abandon. I remember my shock when a former peacekeeper in Western Sahara described Muslims to me. they had so many STDs. I was shocked. They had wives. They had multiple wives. Yet they had to associate with prostitutes & bring deadly disease home like hepatitis. If you have multiple wives what need do you have of a prostitute? That about says it all.

        • Paul Blase

          The other problem with polygamy – and probably the true reason for why it is banned in the west (so far) – is that a few (rich) men get most of the women, leaving a large cohort of single, young men with slim prospects of marriage in the population. As any sociologist will tell you, that's a good recipe for trouble. (The tradition way of solving this is to start a war with your neighbor.)

          • US Muslim

            In Islam, monogamy is the ideal, polygamy is optional. And if you read the Qur'an, there are some pretty heavy restrictions placed on polygamy, which is why in many Muslim nations polygamy is either not practiced by the vast majority of men or has been made illegal.

          • JacksonPearson

            BS. If YOU, or any other Muslim in name only don't follow the Qur'an or your faux Allah/Muhammad's teachings, are by the Qur'an's definition…INFIDELS. There's no in between, you're either one or the other.

          • US Muslim

            Who are you trying to convince here? You can't even convince a Jew that the New Testament is the "truth". Personally, I seriously doubt that most Christians feel and think like you at all. You're the Christian equivalent of the Taliban…ignorant and stupid and yet wants a new Crusade to eliminate the Muslims and Islam!! Yay!!

            German Nazis tried to wipe out the Jews and look what happened to them. What'll happen to you if you try the same against Muslims will make what happened to the Germans look like a tea party. Or maybe that's what you really want…to die as a "martyr" for your "cross".

        • US Muslim

          If that's the case, they may have violated the laws of the Qur'an. Darwin's Law always wins out.

      • Hepatitis

        Yup lots of hepatitis just like I was told.
        http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/western-

        • US Muslim

          No thank you…you keep your beloved hepatitis where the sun don't shine. I'll keep the Qur'an and Islam.

          • Drakken

            Islam and the West are headed for a very bloody showdown, and when things get nasty, nobody is going to care what kind of muslim you are, if you thought the Serbs were bad to you muslims, you haven't seen anything yet, for it will be a Crusades on steroids.

          • US Muslim

            I would never fight against anyone on account of religion. But if I have to die simply for being a Muslim, I will go down fighting and killing…make no mistake about it. How about you? Would you come after me for being a Muslim?

          • JacksonPearson

            "I would never fight against anyone on account of religion."
            When you fight for Islam, then you're fighting for your own enslavement.

            Again why?…Because whenever a human being can't quit or walk away from a so-called religion, because of fear of the death penalty, than they are enslaved. Your beloved Qur'an, that was supposedly penned by Muhammad via his wet dreams, in the name of Allah, gives you an offer you can refuse, stay and live, or leave and die!

          • US Muslim

            Another moronic comment from an obvious moron…I have nothing to fear from my fellow man. I am a Muslim but am also pro-Israel. I know my religion. You don't know mine…you don't even know your own religion.

            You seem to have an obsession with wet dreams. I find this rather disturbing…maybe you should seek therapy before some child goes missing where you live.

          • JacksonPearson

            If the truth hurts, well that's tough sh*t…You still can't answer basic questions…and you don't know what I know….but nice try?

            Allah,and the Qur’an, preached: Bukhari:V9B88N174 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Far removed from mercy are those who change the religion of Islam after me! Islam cannot change!" The penalty for escaping Muhammad’s clutches has always been high.

            Bukhari:V4B52N260 “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’” This was no ordinary prophet or religion. No, Muhammad was special. He was a terrorist and a pirate,and you don’t find too many of those in religious circles.

            Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror. The treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.’” Yes,Islam was the Profitable Prophet Plan. It was all about Muhammad, and he knew it. That is why he required his Sunnah, or example to be enacted as law. Tabari IX:82 “The Messenger sent [killer] Khalid out to collect taxes with an army of 400 and ordered him to invite people to Islam before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.” His Sunnah has become the basis for Islamic law the most repressive code on earth. And Muslims follow his example, which is why they are the most violent people on earth. So it all comes down to this: If the Hadith Collections of Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari and Muslim are true, Muhammad was the most evil man who ever lived, Allah was the most demented god ever conceived, and Islam was the most vile doctrine ever imposed on humankind. If, however, the Hadith Collections are untrue, then nothing is known of Muhammad, the conception of his god, or his formation of Islam. There is no rational reason to believe it, observe it, suffer under it,o r die for it.

            Allah was Muhammad and pathetically, Muhammad was Allah.

          • US Muslim

            I agree…the truth hurts. Which is why you have to lie to cover it up. Facing the truth would be too painful and dangerous for you. It would be like staring at God in His Face.

      • Brokenstriker

        here's two for starters

        "… Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." … all of your neighbors regardless

        "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." … whosoever … as in the entire world … everyone … anyone

        • US Muslim

          According to the Sunnah of Muhammad, it is one's duty to care for family, neighbors and the community at large. And he led by example.

          During his days in Mecca, before he had to flee to Medina, one of his neighbors, an idol-worshipper who hated him, used to dump garbage at his doorstep every day. When he used to come home later in the day, he would just clear it up. Then came the day when he saw no garbage. He knew all along who was doing it and did nothing about it other than clear it out. He then went to the home of the fellow who had been doing it and found him ill and bedridden. The fellow asked Muhammad what he wanted, and Muhammad told him that, on that day, he saw no garbage dumped on his doorstep and grew concerned for him, and so came to check up on him to make sure that he was OK.

          This is the sort of example that inspires me to this day. I do not need to "convert" to any other religion. I have everything that I need in Islam.

          In my view, as a Muslim, God has no "son"…he doesn't need one. He has always been Ar-Rahim…the All Merciful. 'nuff said…

          • Drakken

            You following that false pedophile, rapist, murdering evil called muhamed tells the rest of us ifidels all we need to know about what islam is all about, and abomination and a blight upon humanity.

          • US Muslim

            If you want to see a blight upon humanity, look in the mirror. Or are you in love with yourself like Obama?

          • JacksonPearson

            Can't answer simple questions, huh? Your responses are typical camel dung.

          • US Muslim

            You want a response? The truth is that whatever Muhammad did during his lifetime was seen as ordinary by all those around him, even his enemies. In fact, he was seen as a lot more merciful than your average Arab by all those who were there.

            But that's a concept that your little brain is unable to grasp.

          • Brokenstriker

            According the the religious principles of Islam is it acceptable to kill an infidel who's only alleged fault is being an infidel? Please … include citations to Islamic creeds, codes, the Qur'an. I understand as you have mentioned more than once that you personally do not believe in violence. What I'd like to know is what your religion's position is. I accept that there are passages such as the one me mention above. I have questions about that however including: Who is and isn't included in the community at large? Are there other passages that are still applicable (i.e., not linked in time to a specific person or group that is no longer relative to the current times) that advocate violance?

            and one last thought for the moment … "all merciful?" define mercy and put it into context for this Sharia dictated justice http://abcnews.go.com/US/saudi-arabias-beheading-

            (and before you go there … the old eye for an eye is not a Christian position … the new covenent is a different deal)

          • US Muslim

            As for the Saudis, they are a bunch of hypocrites, big time. Their rulers impose their narrow, Wahabi version of Sharia on their people while they go abroad and violate every one of the laws that they impose on others. They have no credibility with me.

            The following verses are from the Qur'an.

            2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

            8: 60-61 Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
            And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.

            60:8 Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.

            2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

            2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

            24:54 Say: Obey Allah and obey the messenger. But if ye turn away, then (it is) for him (to do) only that wherewith he hath been charged, and for you (to do) only that wherewith ye have been charged. If ye obey him, ye will go aright. But the messenger hath no other charge than to convey (the message) plainly.

            18:29 Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!

          • Brokenstriker

            thank you

            interesting contrast … "fight" as opposed to "love"

          • US Muslim

            Love will always be around. There's a time to fight and a time to love, and one would always hope that the time to fight does not come.

            I would fight for that which I love without hesitation.

      • kafri4life

        Yes! Have you ever read the "koran"? It's that terror guide that the previously mentioned pedophile mohamat shat from his anal orfice. Give it a read sometime. It's really quite a remarkable piece of filth.
        allahu snackbar

        • US Muslim

          Duh. Sure I have…many times over, and over a period of many years. Sounds to me that you and the mullahs agree on how to interpret it. And you still refuse to answer my question. You obviously don't have anything better, or know anything better for that matter. That's why you have to tear down Islam and Muhammad. Insults don't help your cause, but they do help solidify mine. Your attitude already confirms what the Qur'an has to say about the likes of you. Keep it up, bozo…

          • kafir4life

            mussleman, You could try to convince your co-religionists before you attempt to do any dawah with us infidels. We have some pretty poor dawah spouters come here, but they can't even convince other gutter cultists of the error of their ways let alone a non-believer. The koran is nothing but a terror guide. It's creator, mohamat the dog faced pig shat it from his anal orfice following sex with, then later a meal of his favorite pig, or "mom" as she was called by mo. They didn't know how to properly cook pork, so needless to say, the koran came shooting out of mo into the arabian sands, and islam was born, and the koran had been shat.

            But you go ahead and convince a muslim.

            allahu snackbar.

          • US Muslim

            I'm not here to convince you of anything, kid. Just to expose you for the fraud that you are. And I have been talking to my fellow Muslims for years and have made headway.

          • US Muslim

            I'm sorry, all I read was "I'm a stupid moron". Keep it up, kid…you're making great progress.

          • JacksonPearson

            "I'm sorry, all I read was "I'm a stupid moron". Keep it up, kid…you're making great progress."

            Yes you are a moron, Because anyone that follows the Satanic teachings of a self proclaimed false prophet, can't be the brightest Crayon in the pack!

          • US Muslim

            So why are you so concerned about what I believe in? And if I continue to do so, what will you do about it? What can you do?

            I will answer that for you: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You can rant and rave like a fool on this and other forums all you want and get nowhere. Come after me with a weapon…and you shouldn't expect to walk away alive. I also happen to believe in the US Constitution, especially the 1st and 2nd Amendments. I will protect my life and my rights no matter what. And you have no right to violate mine, just as I have no right to violate yours. Your fist ends where my nose begins.

          • Brokenstriker

            I can't tell if you're hostile or have been led to it in this string of comments … but to answer your question … a Christian is concerned for the same basic reason that you supposedly ought to be about what a Christian beleives. The differences include a Christian reaction to your position compared to a Muslim's reaction to a Christian's or infidel's position. The common concern is to make the Lord's way known. The different reactions are quite telling however. Christian's are supposed to pray that you will find the way until you do. Apparently Muslims are supposed to subjugate or behead those who will not convert. If I have that wrong … please explain.

          • US Muslim

            All I have received from so-called "Christians" like yourself is contempt, arrogance, ignorance, shallow and shoddy research at the best, dishonesty and a sense of supremacy.

            However, some of my best friends also happen to be Christians and Jews. I have discussed matters of religion with them very amiably…things like "this is what I believe". No threats, no contempt, no arrogance. All have been friends with me for over 2 decades now.

            Some of you here, not all, claim to be "Christians". A number of you have set an extremely poor example, and I can judge you easily based on my past experience with Christians. You'll never convince anyone that your way is the right way with the attitude that you have here. Especially in your childish attacks on Islam and Muhammad. I certainly have not been convinced for over 30 years. The Christian Doctrine does not jive with my worldview based on real experiences, observations and deductions on my part.

          • Brokenstriker

            have I been dishonest in my interaction with you?
            have I made threats? (btw you have in this forum)

            arrogance, ignorance shallow and shoddy research … I can understand why you think that … I suspect and hope that you are intelligent enough to understand that the same can be said about your conduct … its probably as correctly applied to you as it is to those you are talking about. Certainly though some of what you've been confronted with here I'd agree with you .. but certainly not all

          • Brokenstriker

            I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the subjugation or death question, and assuming that it isn't supporting of that position how you substantiate your position. Is that part of the Qur'an's teaching and guidance for Muslims?

          • Brokenstriker

            are you judging me? You are assuming I am a Christian. Why? I've been asking you questions or for explanations to hear what you have to say. You mostly been avoiding the questions and throwing back frustration and irritation. If you're going to paint Christianity with the actions of Christians you don't like … why don't you do the same to Islam based on actions of Muslims you don't like?

          • US Muslim

            I know Christianity. I have nothing against it…I see it as a path that ultimately leads to Islam.

          • US Muslim

            There is no compulsion in religion…look that up in the 2nd chapter in the Qur'an. I'm strongly opposed to subjugating and/or killing anyone on account of his/her religious beliefs. Just as I wish to practice my religion free of interference, I see it as my DUTY to leave others alone unless they were to come after me first.

            Happy?

          • US Muslim

            As far as Christianity is concerned, I have a real problem with the "Trinity" and the whole concept of "forgiveness through the sacrifice of innocent blood". But I see Jesus as one of us and that what he preached has high value and should not be discarded, not even by Muslims.

          • Gabrielle

            Oh here it comes, "we are as bad as the mullahs," so what the mullahs do is ok. It's never the obligation for the "moderate" to silence the loons in their community because we who object and say so are "loons" too. .

          • Drakken

            Muhamed and islam by it's own deeds define islam for what it is, an abomination of pure anadultered evil. Long Live the Crusades!

          • US Muslim

            The crusades are dead and have been so for hundreds of years. As is the Caliphate. Both should stay where they are.

            It's pretty obvious to me that one of us looks forward to the future, while the other is still in the past. You obviously fall into the latter.

          • JacksonPearson

            " As is the Caliphate."
            Wrong again…It's NOT dead. With the aid of our benevolent closet Muslim pres Barack Hussein Obama, It's a known fact that the Caliphate is being resurrected in the Middle East, at this very moment. New Egyptian president Morsi stated such.

          • US Muslim

            If Obama is a Muslim, he's a very lousy one, to say the least. He drinks alcohol, smokes cigarettes, supports child murder and eats pork. He lies constantly, and he's a socialist. No one can claim to be a pious Muslim and do what he does at the same time without looking like a total idiot. I have reasons to believe that he was raised as a Muslim, though. But any claim to the Caliphate by ANYONE today would be laughed off by the vast majority of Muslims, and that person would be thrown into a rubber room.

          • US Muslim

            Of course… medieval fools like you want a new Crusade. Obama's no Muslim, or a really lousy one at best. And Morsi is an idiot mullah whose butt I hope will get kicked by Israel big time if he tries to move against it.

          • Brokenstriker

            interesting … perhaps you should make those views know to all Muslims and President Morsi as well … it that is in fact how you feel about it

            Frankly I'm surprised you did here but as I think about it, I doubt there is Mr. US Muslim listed in any whitepages so its not exactly a commitment

          • US Muslim

            I have no reason to hide my views. But they just won't make for good ratings anywhere…except maybe on Fox News.

            I don't recall "Brokenstriker" being a real name, either. Perhaps one day I will reveal myself…and the Obamabots will squeal with terror and rage and the Arab world will regard me as a traitor of the worst kind. Hopefully, by then, Obamaism will be on the wane…that's what I want to see end, more than anything else, here in the USA.

          • Brokenstriker

            its no more a real name than US Muslim … but I am not hiding behind it while challenging the leaders of my religion … I assume they are leader

          • US Muslim

            I'm not in a position to challenge anyone out in the open. What I engage in is what you would call "cyber-guerrilla warfare" against those who want to see the world go up in flames.

          • US Muslim

            People like you have to slander Islam and Muhammad, just as lefties have to slander "the 1%" of top earners in this country in order to get their agenda across. Likewise, mullahs have to slander Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. in order to make Islam look good. All of you belong in the same camp: The camp of social misfits who can't convince others to follow their way, and so they must tear down those they see as "obstacles" to their "cause". I find this to be pretty weak and hillarious…it's like trying to convince a homebuyer that you've ot a great house to see by badmouthing the neighbor's house!

          • JacksonPearson

            "People like you have to slander Islam and Muhammad"
            Wrong. The truth shall set you free.

          • US Muslim

            The truth HAS set me free. You're the one who's scared to death of it.

          • JacksonPearson

            Muslim killers are doing a very good job slandering Islam, is that why you joined them…to kill. Because that's exactly what good, true blue Muslims are suppose to do to get to heaven, or don'tcha know that?

            Scared to death….Hardly. Islamophobic and aware, yes!

          • US Muslim

            Here we go again…lumping me with the mullahs which your governments armed and aided. And now we're all bad and the same. Typical medieval village idiot…

            You are scared but would never admit it…you can't. Islamophobic? Of course. Aware? No way. Mentally/intellectually retarded? Obviously. Strong in faith in God? Obviously not.

          • Brokenstriker

            quick question … you said in here somewhere you live in a red state and some other things to include your username … Isn't the government you mention here your government? Shouldn't your comment here to JacksonPearson be about "our government" and not "your government?"

          • US Muslim

            OK, I stand corrected. "Our government". But I doubt he sees it that way.

  • slider 96

    Maybe if the " ASIANS " in the UK took exception to that descriptor , that is the Thais , Japanese , Indians , Nepalese , Shri-Lankans , Laotions ,Cambodians , Koreans , Chinese ,Malaysians , Indonesians , Phillippinos , etc. In addition the Siiks , Hindus , Christians , and Buddhists should take exception . Which "asians " are responsible ?
    IT IS THE MUSLIMS >

    • wlil

      Perhaps when the majority of asians non-moslems stop supporting halal or stop pushing halal, or stop supporting moslems who hate whites and west, etc, asian would stop having a bad name or bad reputation.

  • Rifleman

    It takes almost as sick and twisted a mind as the rapist to put denying "The Right" political "ammunition" over stopping the rape of underage girls. It seems to me that's politicalammunition in itself.

  • Chezwick

    “….just 28 per cent” of child sexual abusers in Britain are “Asian.”

    Let's see, Muslims account for about 6% of Britain's population….and yet, 28% of the child sex abusers. In other words, a British Muslim is more than 4 times more likely to be a sex abuser than a British non-Muslim. And yet, in the upside-down world of British political correctness, this imbalance is considered a MITIGATING factor, exonerating Muslims and their religion/culture from any need for greater scrutiny.

    • kaz

      you are arguing with the choir, dude, and i need no reminder of the innocent and quiet nontroublemaking minority of 6 million. i have the utmost sympathy for them, as well as those israelis who resist genocide at the hands of the new nazis. i am also aware of the katyn forest atrocity, which was wrongfully accepted as a nazi atrocity by our stalinophilic government in 1943, and i am also aware that american jews voted overwhelmingly for a self avowed muslim sympathizer, if not actual muslim. the holocause is not the only wrong in the world, and will pale beside the genocide planned, and being cooperated with by foolish liberals in all western countries, by the new nazis. sorry, to me a future genocide involving our (yours and mine) descendants is more important than past genocide.

      • Drakken

        Us westerners will give the muslims and their colaborators a heathly does of the Balkans on steroids before that happens. Those days are coming faster than anyone thinks.

        • US Muslim

          Bring it on, instead of yapping about it on an Internet forum. Let's see how far you get…truth be told, you're no more "civilized" than those who you claim to be against. Perhaps worse.

          And guess what happened? The Serbs, who were at the root of all the Balkan conflicts starting in the 1980s, turned back the clock on themselves all the way back to 1914. They ended up going back to pre-Yugoslavia borders…not only did they lose everything that they had gained since then, but earned the enmity and hatred of ALL of their neighbors…the Croats, the Bosniaks, the Albanians, the Macedonians, the Slovenes, and even the Montenegrins.

          People like you never learn from history. Your fate will be as theirs has been…isolated, hated, reviled and shunned. You may find death preferable to the life that you'll face afterwards.

  • jacob

    Isn't something similar happening in the Scandinavian countries ????

    Where in the hell did I read that Scandinavian girls are dyeing their hair dark to avoid being attacked
    by these Muslim animals ???????

    And instead of beating the living hell out of them, "political correctness" sweeps the issue under the
    damned rug…..!!!!!
    SAD, AINT IT ??????????????????????

    • Georgina

      This is the 21st. century. Those girls should be trained to fight, knife, gun whatever.

      More importantly: ANY attack, by anyone, should be harshly punished. There must be no ciomeback for the women involved if she uses "excessive" force.
      No excuses accepted from the man. If the attacker is a muslim, immediate dispatch to the next umma country, with a PNG* tattoo.

      Yes, many will say this is unfair. However, we can cover the women or blinker the man. I think it is time that the men were a little frightened instead.

      *PersonaNonGrata in ultraviolet.

    • US Muslim

      I agree that the problem is political correctness. Those Scandinavian girls shouldn't dye their hair black…they should arm themselves and shoot at anyone who attacks them and then get away with it in the court of law. I'd be pretty ticked off if some foreigners started acting so brazenly in my country and give them a piece of my mind, to say the least.

  • JacksonPearson

    The rule of law in a civized society must prevail. The only way Europe should deal with sex gang savages are for stiff prison sentences, no appeals, followed by automatic deportation from their last point of origin, outside the host country.

    • Drakken

      The gallows are going to be the rule of the day soon enough.

    • US Muslim

      I agree with you wholeheartedly.

  • Drakken

    Wait until one of these muslims rapes the wrong daughter, and they find them floating in the river Thames, then watch all hell break lose. I remember being in Cologne, Germany not too long ago where they found 8 muslim turks floating in the Rhine with their genitalia stuffed in their mouths for gang raping the wrong German girl. Despite having DNA and eyewitness accounts the prosecutors office didn't want to seem like a racist so he let them go, 24hours later they found them in the Rhine. If the state fails our society out of fear of being called a racist or islamophobe, it is a failed state and the pepole must do what needs to be done to right things once again. If the muslims continue to act with impunity surely a very brutal backlash is inevitable.

    • Gabrielle

      If the Germans really wanted to send a message the prosecutors should have been “floating” in the Rhine along side of the Turks.

    • sally stone

      that is why this country is in the shape it is, everyone is afraid the blacks are gonna call them racist so we are blind to their problems in the schools raping and bulling kids and the cities crime and murder rates in cities with large black populations or the black on white crimes

    • US Muslim

      My idea would have been to put the guys who did it in some tough German prison where they would have been given lessons in "tough love" by German prisoners there. The long and hard kind, if you know what I mean…

  • carrie

    The media promotes it as a racial issue. muslims admit it is a religious issue and evidence agrees with them.

    In May 2012, a court convicted 29 Somali Muslims for running a sex slavery ring.
    As Immigration and Customs Enforcement alleged in its account of the gang members transported underage Somali and African-American females from the Minneapolis area to Nashville for the purpose of having the females engage in sex acts for money and other items of value.

    Some of the girls were 12 years old. The defendants who faced trial in May were among a group of 29, including women, Somali Muslims.[Somalis face sex trafficking trial in Nashville, by Kristin M. Hall, AP, March 20, 2012]

    "Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation. It is our view of the matter that should prevail. Western goods, like the land on which we now live, belong to Allah and to the best of men — his Believers. Western women, too, belong to us — our future booty."

    22% of the young criminal population in UK prisons are Muslims

  • carrie

    ITALY: Muslim invaders responsible for 40% of rapes and explosive crime surge.
    Muslim immigrants “only” 6% of the Italian population,.

    Sweden: 5% Muslim Pop commits 77.6% of all rape crimes
    Gang rapes involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls, have become commonplace.
    A Seven-hour non-stop gang rape by 12 Afghan Muslim refugees was the ‘most gruesome rape marathon in Sweden’s history,’ say prosecutors. The rape was oral, anal, and vaginal, with up to three rapists in her at the same time. Only 7 of the 12 rapists were convicted.”

    Norway: Over 90% of all violent rapes in Oslo are committed by Muslims.

    PAKISTAN -Rape is used as a weapon of persecution against Christian girls.
    “The incidents of rape and enforced conversion of Christian women to Islam is rising every year. 99.9% of rape cases go unreported in Pakistan… If a Muslim man rapes a Christian girl, then he forces her to convert to Islam, marries her and covers up his crime of rape under Islamic law. Some cases of rapes of Christian women are reported, but the majority of such rapes are never reported.”
    president of the Pakistan Christian Congress, Dr. Nazir Bhatti

    Denmark – 70% of all rapes committed in 2011 were perpetrated by muslims .

    Darfur -“Each of us was raped by between three and six men.One woman refused to have sex with their muslim captors , so they split her head into pieces with an axe in front of us.”

    Sudanese military personnel kidnap and airlift women to Khartoum to serve as sex slaves.
    Women who are captured by government forces are asked; “Are you Christian or Muslim?” and those who answer Christian, are gang raped before having their breasts cut off.

    One day after reporting her alleged rape to the local Gendarmerie in Kestel, a Finnish national was found dead in her hotel room.

    In Australia’s New South Wales Supreme Court a visiting Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no, because they were not wearing a headscarf.

    Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, invited men to rape them.

    DENMARK, Copenhagen- Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid Mehdi stated that women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.

    FRANCE: In France, women have endured years of repeated gang rapes in one of the Muslim populated public housing projects . “any neighborhood girl who smokes, uses makeup or wears attractive clothes is considered a whore and raped.” 7000 gang rapes are said to be committed by muslims each year in France.

    INDONESIA: human rights groups documented the testimony of over 100 Chinese women who were gang raped during the riots that preceded the fall of President Suharto. Many of them were told: “You must be raped, because you are Chinese and non-Muslim.”

    GREAT BRITAIN: visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were raped.

    East London mosque – Imam Abdul Makin supports the killing and raping of non-Muslim, declaring all non-Muslims are guilty and subject to lethal abuse.

    Colorado
    The victim of a vicious sexual assault said that the five Iraqi Muslim attackers complained,while they gang raped her, they were unhappy with the way they were treated in the United States.Some of the victim’s injuries were described by police as being extremely brutal and “rarely seen.”

    Figures show there have been 18 Muslim sex gang prosecutions since 1997 in the US – 15 in the last three years – involving girls aged 11-16.

    • US Muslim

      Such people claim to be "Muslims" but they are not my brothers and sisters in the faith. If I had the chance to wipe them out, I would do it. They are a blight on humanity. No amount of talking would do any good. I consider them to be hypocrites and savages of the worst kind.

      • YourBrainwashed

        Just wondering how long do you want to live in denial and ignorance. How long do you want to be a fake muslim where you re-interprete the murder, torture, sexual abuse of the Koran to suit your day to day desire/greed/insecurity for an afterlife that does not exist. The imams are more knowledgeable and well-read than you are, their quotes to kill, torture, be sexist and rape are FROM THE KORAN, yet you proclaim to be a better muslim. Doh. Because Mohammed had a 6 year old bride who he f*cked when she was 9, children in Yemen are still being raped at that age by 'good muslims', children that will die in pregnancy because their hips are not large enough yet. Direct correspondance to the devil. Peace be upon him in my arsehole.

        • US Muslim

          Last time I checked, you're the one walking on the ceiling and claiming that I'm walking upside-down.

          My faith in God is between me and Him. You have no place in my world…you're just another ignorant gnat that needs to be swatted away.

          Doh, doh…I am a Muslim and will always be one. You wanna kiss an imam's arse by telling him he's a "real" Muslim and I'm a "fake"? Go right ahead. And be sure to eat his pork sausage while you're at it.

  • sally stone

    this type of thing has been going on with blacks in the United States for years, they whore out white girls by using the race card on them and pass them around to. at a young age that is what stupid nations like Great Briton get for trying to be nice to those people and bringing them in to the country it is like having a pet griz bear nice when little but will grow up to eat you or like letting a few rats in your home pretty soon the rats own you

  • Suzanne

    I don't understand how come we can't be honest about Islam unless, of course, it's about the oil. So, therefore, we'd better get our game together- for to be beholden to Muslims is a fools errand. However, a few unpleasant facts about Islam need to be clarified anyway. First, the West must face the fact that believing Muslims are 100% opposed to Western ideals and liberal democracies. Furthermore, they are RELIGIOUSLY mandated to destroy them. Next, it's a fact that Islam is a complete system of life incorporating many values that are repugnant to Western sensibilities. Most scholars (that I'VE read, anyway) are in agreement that Islam cannot be reformed. Whether it can or can't, I'll leave to the scholars, but as far as the West is concerned, we must deal with what's in front of us today and that is a Muslim population that is unapologetically devoted to its traditional beliefs. Therefore, Islam, unlike our traditional religions of Christianity and Judaism cannot be contained within our Western democracy. So … if we can go that far in our thinking – then comes some hard conclusions. First, that believing Muslims should have never been allowed here in the first place and that the ones who did come, came here under false pretenses. One cannot take an oath of allegiance to this country and still uphold the tenants of Islam. So,is this grounds for their deportation? I can't come to any other conclusion than, yes, it is. That is, if we are truly guardians of our constitution. Now, I know that there are many well meaning people out there that are not ready for these realities. They're going to say that deporting believing Muslims is a violation of everything we stand for. But don't we have to be honest about this, too? Don't we have to acknowledge the idea that our founding fathers wrote the constitution when America (with very few exceptions) was a Christian nation and that they knew full well that Christianity would easily exist within the Constitution's framework? Now, flash forward to the recent past. Unaware of the true nature of Islam, American officials were broadsided when Muslims came and applied for citizenship. Being that they were ignorant of the true nature of Islam- they granted it. But after 9 /11, the American people have no reason of this ideology and I believe, most of us, if being honest, would realize that Muslim immigration (as well as the granting of temporary visas) was a huge mistake on our part and one with disastrous consequences. So why can't we be honest about this, especially in light of the many ongoing terrorist activities that are inevitably traced back to the Muslim community? Isn't it time for a national examination at our highest levels on which religions can and cannot exist within our national framework? I think many Americans, if given the facts, would understand this problem and agree to a limit. Further, isn't it time to confront the Muslim community itself and give THEM their choice? They can either believe in Islam and leave peacefully or abandon it and stay here. (NOTE,that I'm NOT advocating violence, just peaceful dismissal of subversives from our shores). If we did this it would also mean the end of the vast and growing Islamic infrastructure. That's right – the mosques, schools and community centers. Sounds draconian? Not, if you're honest about what Muslims, themselves, are saying. They are here to conquer us – it's mandated by their religion. At their core, these institutions are houses of war – against us. Are we prepared to be honest?

    • Gabrielle

      You will never get the liberal left to admit that our culture works well for we the people who were raised accoding to the Judeo-Christian values of Western Culture. To the liberal our culture has no chance if it is not diluted with some alien culture such as Islam.

      Liberals are incaplable of reason, they can not think while they are so busy emoting. Your plan makes too much sense so there isn't a politician in this counrty who will consider it. LOL.

  • rightwingcanadian

    Muslims in Britain believe that they are in a war ,and in the Koran you can take women as war captives and rape them.

    • US Muslim

      "in the Koran you can take women as war captives and rape them. "

      I must have missed that part. Where in the Qur'an does it say that's it OK to have sexual relations with someone against his/her consent?

  • fightwarnotwars

    Yeah! Because white people never rape women and there's nothing about rape in the christian bible! Onward white christians!

    • Sound&Fury

      You are part of the problem. But you knew that, didn't you?

    • Drakken

      Your bloody stupidity knows no bounds, I have lost any type of sympathy or empathy for Darwin Award winners as you and yours for you bring tragedy upon yourselves.

    • Poppakap

      What a petty and childish comment. The writer evidently has an axe to grind against Christianity and so uses this article's comment section to expose his/her/its extraordinary bigotry in a context that should make all people of good will shudder.

      The poster above is so full of acrimony, hatefulness, and bile he/she/it didn't consider for a moment that Christianity isn't a white person's religion, but rather a global belief system with populations in Africa and South America growing faster than anywhere in the world. But facts don't matter much when one is filled with so much derision that rationality is suspended. The only hope for individuals like 'fightwar…' is to sincerely pray for them and hope their cankered souls finds relief from the cauldron of animosity that animates their rage.

  • Ghostwriter

    In the article,the leftist media in Britain have tried to delink Islam with pedophila. Sounds like it isn't working all that well.

  • WilliamJamesWard

    Once the Islamists are cleansed and made pure in the mind of the English devils all of the
    Endlanders should be bansihed to some other land where they may not insult the devout
    amongst them. Who do the English think they are to for one second consider the Islamists
    unfit for coexistence, shame on them. Iceland would be a good place for the English to
    do penance………but maybe they would be unable to submit to the Polar Bears codes of
    honor…………………………..William

    • WilliamJamesWard

      Sarcasm over some heads today???

  • Drakken

    The more the muslims push us infidels the more likely that bloody backlash they fear will come to pass. It is enevitable.

    • Gabrielle

      I disagree, it is NOT inevitable. We are pushed, assaulted and silenced with select words, those are not the actions of a people who will defend themselves.

      Europeans were among the mightiest warriors the world has ever seen. Toady, travel to any European city and the Europeans walk with their heads down hoping that their new immigrant population allows them free passage on the street without incident.

      When our president went around the world on his apology tour, bowing and scraping he sent the signal that America will no longer be an impediment to world domination by the third world's mores and customs.

      • Poppakap

        The condition you've described is the sad result of incremental socialism and its ugly co-mingled ideologies. The English have done to themselves via political correctness what no army in the world could do in almost 1,000 years; reduce Great Britain to a weak, sniveling society unwilling to assert the greatness of its contributions to civilization. It is not only sad, but a case study of what will happen to the US if we continue with the domestic and foreign policies of BHO and his fellow political travelers.

      • Drakken

        Gabrielle, I disagree that the fighting spirit of the Europeans, it is in their very DNA to conqueror and keep what you kill. It is only going to take one incident too many to set the whole ball rolling down the hill, trust me, there will be blood and once those genes of conquest come to the surface there will be stopping it. Think Balkans on steroids.

        • Gabrielle

          Drakken, I do hope you are right. I am an American, but European history is my heritage as well and watching it under assault and being destroyed without the guardians of that history seeming to lift a finger is painful.

          We owe it to our ancestors as much as to our children to preserve the greatest culture ever know to man. I think of our art, our literature, our music, our science, our discoveries all to disappear and be replaced by a dreary, soulless, joyless culture which does not appreciate any of it. How do we explain to our children what we allowed to happen to their inheritance if we do not stop it soon?

          • Drakken

            Gabrielle, if you have the time take yourself a good 3 week trip to Europe and go to the local pubs and coffee houses and hear what the locals have to say, a few years back people just whispered about the muslim problem, now it is being loudly discussed and it won't be too long before an incident takes place that the locals take matters into their own hands and it will spread from there. The reason why you don't hear about the muslim problem in eastern Europe is because the locals take care of those problems without govt intervention and the local police deal directly without pc rules, in other words they do it the old fashioned way. It will not be too much longer before all hell breaks loose and everybody joins in the fun.

          • Gabrielle

            My friend, I was in Europe over the summer and I must tell you the same sense of defeat is rife there as it is here. I firmly believe that liberalism and political correctness have drained our spirit and made us afraid of words more than we are afraid of losing our freedoms..

            I look at the current debate on weapons in this country and I ask why is this even happening? It is happening not because of the horrible event in CT, it is happening because the left is so embolden that they see a golden opportunity to yet again win in the court of public opinion and another honest, law abiding group of responsible citizens is being demonized with no reason.

            Take the example of the Tea Party. I can't tell you how many times I have argued the merits of the Tea Party with Europeans and Americans who are convinced that the Tea Party is a racist, anti-Obama, anti-government bunch of thug NAZIs. How did this happen? Grannies and grampies peacefully demonstrating and worried about the future and the direction of this country are racist because they object to high taxes and out of control spending?

          • Gabrielle

            No, it is happening because the media has finally realized its power to sway people with mere accusations based on no fact. Their power is complete now and the people are sufficiently dumbed down to a point where even the wildest charge is taken as truth.

            Then I look at our law enforcement agencies and I ask if pitted against citizens with weapons trying to restore responsibility to government what would they do? Today our cops are very well paid, have exceptional benefits, and an excellent retirement package. They homes and families and pretty much all of the creature comforts that they can afford. Based on all of that, I say if they are given the order to fire, the police will fire on their fellow citizens especially fellow citizens who have been demonized in the media first as being "revolutionaries" and enemies of the state?

            How can one compare that nebulous thing called freedom with that flat screen tv? We have lost the language and the power of persuasion and without that we have lost the war without a single "shot."

  • Sam joseph

    What the west should know that all non-muslims women and particularly white women are easy prey for sex and sexual abuse by muslims.. The see all the nude magazines and porn and think that every white women is of the same sort.

    • US Muslim

      You are partly right. It's worse in Europe than it is here in the USA. I remember one time when I was in Athens when all I could see in a newsstand was porno magazines…they made Playboy look tame. Such stuff affects all, not just Muslims…lower birth rates, dysfunctional and broken families, children growing up to be social misfits, etc. Freedom and liberty come with consquenes, and a strong moral base is needed in order to sustain it. Otherwise immorality and degeneracy take over and eats away at society and chaos ensues.

  • fairlight

    If you are in law enforcement and in effect, look the other way when someone has been raped, you are guilty of conspiracy to hide a criminal act, and should be prosecuted. As well, you are guilty of dereliction of your sworn duty and should lose your job at the very least. Why aren't these people who didn't help the victims and prosecute criminals not being prosecuted? Why aren't the rapists deported at the very least?
    These so called 'advanced European countries' are corrupt; and not that far removed from what they were that allowed the holocaust.

  • jonmc

    May I offer a small correction: your article says that "white" means "non-Muslims".
    In the U.K. press this term does not mean that that – I should know, I'm a Brit.
    Applied to men it means "white thug/racist". Applied to women it means "white" (i.e. an indegene), sometimes with undertones of "trash".
    A line in some of the reports was that this grooming was all the fault of the "authorities" who failed to protect these "white girls" who came from broken homes or dysfunctional families etc. (not the undertone of "white trash" here?).
    Whilst this is true as far as it goes, it neglects the fact that had these predatory Mussalmen not been around, those girls would not have needed protection from them. It also relieves the Musselmen of responsibility – though the courts may well say otherwise.

  • kaz

    in any society in the history of the world, if any group of foreigners came and started raping the host population's women, the hosts would rist up in righteous anger and slay the raping foreigners, if they were able. if they were not able , it would be called a conquest by the invaders, and the raped women are fair game for the victorious invaders. this is true today, as much as it was true when muslims conquered constantinople, slew the men, and raped the women. the fact that cowardly infidels stand by and watch their women being raped by foreigners is proof positive that they have been conquered by the foreigners, and their women are spoils of war. history has not been repealed, and cowardice is still cowardice. in war, cowards always lose, and the west is acknowledging its cowardly defeat at the hands of islam. the only thing that remains is the enslavement and murder of the men, and that is as inevitable as time. stop worrying about the raped females. it is your own life and freedom that you are losing. your women will aquiesce to islamic rape, and will obediently bear the next generation of good muslims, but you wont be around to object.

  • Kerry

    GRAPPLING WITH MUSLIM SEXS GANGS IN BRITAIN
    (or, any sex gangs for that matter)

    The Bible has the answer to this problem. In Paul's letter to the Galatians, he writes:

    Galatians 5:12 (NIV)
    12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

    And to that I say Amen. Take the blinders off your eyes and stop listening to just what people have to say about the Bible. Pick up a copy and read it for yourself. Need help, then ask.

    • WilliamJamesWard

      Amen to that……………William

  • Elsa Schieder

    One thing is clear. While the Muslim gang are a problem … that they have been raping non-Muslim women for decades without it being generally identified as Muslim is because of the politically correct left. In other words, the bigger problem is the politically correct left.

    In a way, it's close to when rape was taboo. Then the bigger problem was the society that shamed women for being raped, that judged rape victims. In other words, the biggest work needed to be done on society.

    That is the case again.

    Then most of the work was done by feminists. This time the work is being done by – what do you want to call us – counter jihadis.

    Anyway, once again there are truth tellers. Glad you're here, and more and more of us are here.