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	<title>Comments on: Messengers, Messages, and Voters, Part 2</title>
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		<title>By: SFLBIB</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4246169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SFLBIB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2013 17:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4246169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did the people follow Hitler, Mussolini, et al out of self interest? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did the people follow Hitler, Mussolini, et al out of self interest? </p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4213287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[at least we can all agree to stop whining about Obama the big spender, ok?  &lt;a href=&quot;http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/1510761/three-charts-domestic-spending-lows/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/15107...&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>at least we can all agree to stop whining about Obama the big spender, ok?  <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/1510761/three-charts-domestic-spending-lows/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/15107" rel="nofollow">http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/01/29/15107</a>&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: tanstaafl</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4213107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tanstaafl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 01:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4213107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you are dependent on the government, you are a slave to it as well. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are dependent on the government, you are a slave to it as well. </p>
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		<title>By: Adolf Hitler</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4212483</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adolf Hitler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Dont worry so much, this country is going to collapse upon itself soon anyway. Multiplicator effect of many diffrent pressures upon it at the same time. Including this mass amnesty from barakus obamanationis. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dont worry so much, this country is going to collapse upon itself soon anyway. Multiplicator effect of many diffrent pressures upon it at the same time. Including this mass amnesty from barakus obamanationis. </p>
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		<title>By: Questions</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4208952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Questions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 04:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4208952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What we need is immigration restriction and abolition of all affirmative action.  Until we think in racial terms, we&#039;re going down.   ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we need is immigration restriction and abolition of all affirmative action.  Until we think in racial terms, we&#039;re going down.   </p>
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		<title>By: fiddler</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4208933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fiddler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 04:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4208933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;consider principle and the good of the whole even at the cost of their own interests&quot; Wrong premise. Their interest should be the honor of supporting themselves. Again, this is seductive and this way of thinking is encouraged by this government. This government is morally bankrupt. Let me say that again, THIS GOVERNMENT IS MORALLY BANKRUPT. To deliberately allow people to subsist off the government &quot;teat&quot; while destroying initiative is corrupt to the core and is insidious. It needs to be stopped, because it prolongs the societal disease: comlacency and lack of push and the eventual further decline of the family. The Biblical statement is &quot;if a man shall not work, neither shall he eat&quot;. Our government will accept votes from the caring and informed and from the lazy vagrant. They LOVE ignorance and dependency, because they forment it. Utterly discusting and discouraging. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;consider principle and the good of the whole even at the cost of their own interests&quot; Wrong premise. Their interest should be the honor of supporting themselves. Again, this is seductive and this way of thinking is encouraged by this government. This government is morally bankrupt. Let me say that again, THIS GOVERNMENT IS MORALLY BANKRUPT. To deliberately allow people to subsist off the government &quot;teat&quot; while destroying initiative is corrupt to the core and is insidious. It needs to be stopped, because it prolongs the societal disease: comlacency and lack of push and the eventual further decline of the family. The Biblical statement is &quot;if a man shall not work, neither shall he eat&quot;. Our government will accept votes from the caring and informed and from the lazy vagrant. They LOVE ignorance and dependency, because they forment it. Utterly discusting and discouraging. </p>
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		<title>By: Flicker1</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Flicker1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So unless one believes that human nature has evolved beyond passion and self-interest so that today a critical mass of voters will consider principle and the good of the whole even at the cost of their own interests, we still face the same problem that troubled earlier critics of democracy.&quot; 
 
I don&#039;t care what you say.  When you tell people who make $29,000 a year on the dole eating and smoking cigarettes and watching their 47&quot; flat-screen all day that they can make $27,000 a year working 40 hours a week, they will NEVER vote for you! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;So unless one believes that human nature has evolved beyond passion and self-interest so that today a critical mass of voters will consider principle and the good of the whole even at the cost of their own interests, we still face the same problem that troubled earlier critics of democracy.&quot; </p>
<p>I don&#039;t care what you say.  When you tell people who make $29,000 a year on the dole eating and smoking cigarettes and watching their 47&quot; flat-screen all day that they can make $27,000 a year working 40 hours a week, they will NEVER vote for you! </p>
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		<title>By: NAHALKIDES</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NAHALKIDES]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While Thornton mention our system of checks and balances, in my view he doesn&#039;t give enough attention to the strictly limited form of government the Founders intended.  If the Constitution were adhered to, there would be no income redistribution and thus no rise of pressure groups each trying to steal the most money from their fellow citizens.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate self-interest:  I have a legitimate interest in voting Republican to keep my taxes low; the public sector union member does not have a legitimate interest in voting Democratic to keep my taxes high so that he can get his hands on more of my property. 
 
Checks and balances only works with limited government; with unlimited government, as ours is becoming, it only produces endless fights between makers and takers, leading ultimately either to collapse or civil war. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Thornton mention our system of checks and balances, in my view he doesn&#039;t give enough attention to the strictly limited form of government the Founders intended.  If the Constitution were adhered to, there would be no income redistribution and thus no rise of pressure groups each trying to steal the most money from their fellow citizens.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate self-interest:  I have a legitimate interest in voting Republican to keep my taxes low; the public sector union member does not have a legitimate interest in voting Democratic to keep my taxes high so that he can get his hands on more of my property. </p>
<p>Checks and balances only works with limited government; with unlimited government, as ours is becoming, it only produces endless fights between makers and takers, leading ultimately either to collapse or civil war. </p>
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		<title>By: liason</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207525</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[liason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The cycle goes like this...slavery leads to the thirst for freedom, the thirst for freedom leads to courage and a fight for rights, the fight for rights leads to freedom, freedom leads to wealth, wealth leads to comfort, comfort leads to complacency and complacency leads us right back  to slavery.  where do you guys thibnk America is on this cycle??  Not a pretty picture!! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cycle goes like this&#8230;slavery leads to the thirst for freedom, the thirst for freedom leads to courage and a fight for rights, the fight for rights leads to freedom, freedom leads to wealth, wealth leads to comfort, comfort leads to complacency and complacency leads us right back  to slavery.  where do you guys thibnk America is on this cycle??  Not a pretty picture!! </p>
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		<title>By: fiddler</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207241</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fiddler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This president willfully fans flames of discontent similarly to other &quot;influential&quot; miscreants of history&#039;s past. Hey if it gets you popularity and power -- go for it! Your &quot;goal&quot; is more important than societal virtue isn&#039;t it? The arrogance and lust for power cannot be overstated. It is about collapsing and rebuilding, because &quot;IT&#039;S ME!!!!!&quot;, that&#039;s why, and I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This president willfully fans flames of discontent similarly to other &quot;influential&quot; miscreants of history&#039;s past. Hey if it gets you popularity and power &#8212; go for it! Your &quot;goal&quot; is more important than societal virtue isn&#039;t it? The arrogance and lust for power cannot be overstated. It is about collapsing and rebuilding, because &quot;IT&#039;S ME!!!!!&quot;, that&#039;s why, and I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU! </p>
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		<title>By: fiddler</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fiddler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barak Obama&#039;s method is SEDUCTION. A seductive message stating that the rich &quot;stole&quot; their wealth and &quot;we&#039;ll get it for YOU&quot; is more appealing than, if you apply yourself and realize your own potential in this free society YOU can build your own future. 
 
Nope, better to inflame jealousy and envy and appeal to our &quot;lesser angels&quot; by saying, &quot;If you own a business, you didn&#039;t build that, someone else made that happen&quot;. That coddles the disgruntled and salves the spurned; and if done so often enough, especially on little pop-ups placed before your eyes online often enough, the seductive message and the emotional aim wins out. Most of us learned in one generation not to be jealous of others; that it was impolite to point. We learned to RESPECT what others had build and to believe the best about them. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barak Obama&#039;s method is SEDUCTION. A seductive message stating that the rich &quot;stole&quot; their wealth and &quot;we&#039;ll get it for YOU&quot; is more appealing than, if you apply yourself and realize your own potential in this free society YOU can build your own future. </p>
<p>Nope, better to inflame jealousy and envy and appeal to our &quot;lesser angels&quot; by saying, &quot;If you own a business, you didn&#039;t build that, someone else made that happen&quot;. That coddles the disgruntled and salves the spurned; and if done so often enough, especially on little pop-ups placed before your eyes online often enough, the seductive message and the emotional aim wins out. Most of us learned in one generation not to be jealous of others; that it was impolite to point. We learned to RESPECT what others had build and to believe the best about them. </p>
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		<title>By: patron</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4207064</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[patron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4207064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Commentators disregard the motivation to elect the first black president, which brought out a lot of voters. Nothing was going to stop that regardless. 
 
Also damaging was the Republicans refusal to address the big government advocates lies that low taxes created the subprime crisis, and the split of voters with Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. 
 
I do not see Washington capable of any solution to solve entitlement spending, especially in the next four years. Getting people off drugs and welfare will have to be done through the private sector. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commentators disregard the motivation to elect the first black president, which brought out a lot of voters. Nothing was going to stop that regardless. </p>
<p>Also damaging was the Republicans refusal to address the big government advocates lies that low taxes created the subprime crisis, and the split of voters with Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. </p>
<p>I do not see Washington capable of any solution to solve entitlement spending, especially in the next four years. Getting people off drugs and welfare will have to be done through the private sector. </p>
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		<title>By: David Olds</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4206789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Olds]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4206789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can guarantee you they won&#8217;t learn. Human nature / Cognitive Dissonance / intellectual dishonesty will prevail.  
They have too much tied up in protecting a self-righteous self-image. To give it up would take too much real character. To admit they have been wrong all this time? Nope! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can guarantee you they won&rsquo;t learn. Human nature / Cognitive Dissonance / intellectual dishonesty will prevail.<br />
They have too much tied up in protecting a self-righteous self-image. To give it up would take too much real character. To admit they have been wrong all this time? Nope! </p>
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		<title>By: slickdemetrius</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4206610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[slickdemetrius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4206610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is excellant reading out there if anyone is interested in the Peloponnesian War and the actors involved. First, A New History of the Peloponnesian War by Lawrence Tritle and then the old classic Thucydides : History of the Peloponnesian War (translated by Charles Forster Smith) which comes in four volumes I believe. Some libraries may have them still.  
Learning that all this garbage with corrupt governments has gone on long before helps muzzle the anger a bit, realizing that we are just the recent victims of those who work the world&#039;s third oldest profession - politicians.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is excellant reading out there if anyone is interested in the Peloponnesian War and the actors involved. First, A New History of the Peloponnesian War by Lawrence Tritle and then the old classic Thucydides : History of the Peloponnesian War (translated by Charles Forster Smith) which comes in four volumes I believe. Some libraries may have them still.<br />
Learning that all this garbage with corrupt governments has gone on long before helps muzzle the anger a bit, realizing that we are just the recent victims of those who work the world&#039;s third oldest profession &#8211; politicians.  </p>
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		<title>By: PhillipGaley</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4206503</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PhillipGaley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4206503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Sadly, voters will learn their lesson only after being hit hard by the folly of progressive policies.&quot;? 
 
No, they will not learn, not at all, wake up, my friend, . . . for, the fool walketh in darkness, . . . and as even now they are doing, the worse things appear for their darling, the more certaintly they exclaim their ideas of manifest blame in previous administrations:  &quot;He can&#039;t clean up this mess in just four years.&quot;, and:  &quot;The Republicans have got to get behind him instead of complaining all the time.&quot;, and so on, . . . ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Sadly, voters will learn their lesson only after being hit hard by the folly of progressive policies.&quot;? </p>
<p>No, they will not learn, not at all, wake up, my friend, . . . for, the fool walketh in darkness, . . . and as even now they are doing, the worse things appear for their darling, the more certaintly they exclaim their ideas of manifest blame in previous administrations:  &quot;He can&#039;t clean up this mess in just four years.&quot;, and:  &quot;The Republicans have got to get behind him instead of complaining all the time.&quot;, and so on, . . . </p>
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		<title>By: Rifleman</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4206467</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rifleman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4206467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The left will blame the failures of their policies on wealthy reactionaries.   When their high income and investment taxes decrease or kill growth and shrink revenue, the left will say it&#039;s because those greedy rich people are hoarding their wealth and starving the economy.   That&#039;s when they pass laws to go after their accumulated wealth. 
 
The left&#039;s monetary policy is doing a fine job of looting bank accounts as it is, but open-ended QE will be wholesale looting. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The left will blame the failures of their policies on wealthy reactionaries.   When their high income and investment taxes decrease or kill growth and shrink revenue, the left will say it&#039;s because those greedy rich people are hoarding their wealth and starving the economy.   That&#039;s when they pass laws to go after their accumulated wealth. </p>
<p>The left&#039;s monetary policy is doing a fine job of looting bank accounts as it is, but open-ended QE will be wholesale looting. </p>
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		<title>By: john butala</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/messengers-messages-and-voters-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4206055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john butala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=175096#comment-4206055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Democrat elites have convinced their constituents that life has not been fair to them. There was always a huge envious element among many Dem voters, but in the last fifty years the elites added the twist that not only was life unfair, most of them (the typical Dem voters) were victims. Therefore, it&#039;s totally justified in Fearless Leader Barack&#039;s words to establish fairness by redistributing all that &quot;stolen&quot; moolah and give it to the deserving Dem faithful. Of course Dem voters won&#039;t admit it. But underneath everything, they vote for Dems because they, the takers, expect to get something out of it. And that something is wealth created by the producers. It&#039;s for &quot;fairness&quot; don&#039;t you know. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrat elites have convinced their constituents that life has not been fair to them. There was always a huge envious element among many Dem voters, but in the last fifty years the elites added the twist that not only was life unfair, most of them (the typical Dem voters) were victims. Therefore, it&#039;s totally justified in Fearless Leader Barack&#039;s words to establish fairness by redistributing all that &quot;stolen&quot; moolah and give it to the deserving Dem faithful. Of course Dem voters won&#039;t admit it. But underneath everything, they vote for Dems because they, the takers, expect to get something out of it. And that something is wealth created by the producers. It&#039;s for &quot;fairness&quot; don&#039;t you know. </p>
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