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	<title>Comments on: The Looming ObamaCare Market Crash</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Drakken</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drakken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Frankly speaking, I think it is only a matter of time until the American people say enough is enough and take to the torches and pitchforks against these feckless politicians. Just look how these power mad pols just effed us veterans over, where does it end? I&#039;ll up the anty and bring a couple bottles of Bourbon, we shall need it for medicinal purposes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly speaking, I think it is only a matter of time until the American people say enough is enough and take to the torches and pitchforks against these feckless politicians. Just look how these power mad pols just effed us veterans over, where does it end? I&#8217;ll up the anty and bring a couple bottles of Bourbon, we shall need it for medicinal purposes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MotherGoos3</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MotherGoos3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been working on a local level against our agenda21 loving scumbag of a mayor (she actually wants to tax rain) and the school board implementing the common core curriculum, to no avail.  



I also worked against our sitting senator (Bob Corker) in last year&#039;s primary and gen&#039;l election, but TN re-elected him anyway. He is one that wants to give aid to the Syrian rebels and was one of the gang of 8 for amnesty.  Unless a lot more people wake up and pay attention, it WILL burn.


I&#039;ll bring the hersheys and graham crackers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been working on a local level against our agenda21 loving scumbag of a mayor (she actually wants to tax rain) and the school board implementing the common core curriculum, to no avail.  </p>
<p>I also worked against our sitting senator (Bob Corker) in last year&#8217;s primary and gen&#8217;l election, but TN re-elected him anyway. He is one that wants to give aid to the Syrian rebels and was one of the gang of 8 for amnesty.  Unless a lot more people wake up and pay attention, it WILL burn.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bring the hersheys and graham crackers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: blert</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334482</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But the budget is ALREADY unfinanceable. (!)
Even the ancient super powers -- Rome and China -- blew up their economies by currency debasement -- and they were the ONLY game in town!
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
Barry is like the worst tyrants of the 20th Century: he makes unmoderated mistakes... based upon his ideology.
And, as ever, the worst tyrants spend most of their energies making war on their own polity. So it&#039;s no real surprise that Barry is scarcely able to sustain attention on foreign affairs. He&#039;s focused like a laser beam on increasing Big Government. Too much is never enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the budget is ALREADY unfinanceable. (!)<br />
Even the ancient super powers &#8212; Rome and China &#8212; blew up their economies by currency debasement &#8212; and they were the ONLY game in town!<br />
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.<br />
Barry is like the worst tyrants of the 20th Century: he makes unmoderated mistakes&#8230; based upon his ideology.<br />
And, as ever, the worst tyrants spend most of their energies making war on their own polity. So it&#8217;s no real surprise that Barry is scarcely able to sustain attention on foreign affairs. He&#8217;s focused like a laser beam on increasing Big Government. Too much is never enough.</p>
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		<title>By: blert</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hawaii adopted its version of 0-care when 0bama was a  teenager at Punahou. As an employer there, at that time, I can assure you that ALL small businesses trimmed hours so that HMSA/ Kaiser payments were no longer mandated.


France has a variation on 0-care... yet both use 50 employees as the cut-off. In France, there are practically NO employers with 50-200 employees. Everyone stays below the magic numbor -- or is so big/protected/exclusive/ patent protected, that they can pass on the cost to their buying customers.


Any fool trying to &quot;do the right thing&quot; and cover their employees goes under -- in pretty short order, too.


This reality goes back two generations -- to the 1970s. It is what is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hawaii adopted its version of 0-care when 0bama was a  teenager at Punahou. As an employer there, at that time, I can assure you that ALL small businesses trimmed hours so that HMSA/ Kaiser payments were no longer mandated.</p>
<p>France has a variation on 0-care&#8230; yet both use 50 employees as the cut-off. In France, there are practically NO employers with 50-200 employees. Everyone stays below the magic numbor &#8212; or is so big/protected/exclusive/ patent protected, that they can pass on the cost to their buying customers.</p>
<p>Any fool trying to &#8220;do the right thing&#8221; and cover their employees goes under &#8212; in pretty short order, too.</p>
<p>This reality goes back two generations &#8212; to the 1970s. It is what is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DinaRehn</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DinaRehn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are only two conclusions to draw from the evidence as presented in the piece:

1). Our bettors, the “elite” of the national socialist left are incredibly stupid to implement such a utterly disastrous series of actions that will inevitably result in chaos and misery for all – except them.

2). This is all part of a plan – call it Cloward-Piven if you will.

---------------
I would submit that while option #1 is a possibility, the probably that all of those of the vaunted “elite” of national socialist left are this addled of the mind is quite low.

Some to be sure, but the majority of them at least made it through some of our finest educational institutions.


So that leaves US, option #2 – and considering that some of the vaunted “elite” of national socialist left actually penned such a plan should quite insightful as to it’s probably of being true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are only two conclusions to draw from the evidence as presented in the piece:</p>
<p>1). Our bettors, the “elite” of the national socialist left are incredibly stupid to implement such a utterly disastrous series of actions that will inevitably result in chaos and misery for all – except them.</p>
<p>2). This is all part of a plan – call it Cloward-Piven if you will.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
I would submit that while option #1 is a possibility, the probably that all of those of the vaunted “elite” of national socialist left are this addled of the mind is quite low.</p>
<p>Some to be sure, but the majority of them at least made it through some of our finest educational institutions.</p>
<p>So that leaves US, option #2 – and considering that some of the vaunted “elite” of national socialist left actually penned such a plan should quite insightful as to it’s probably of being true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks David &amp; Timothy for a thought provoking report about the ominous changes in healthcare economics and the &quot;unintended consequences&quot; for the overall economy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David &amp; Timothy for a thought provoking report about the ominous changes in healthcare economics and the &#8220;unintended consequences&#8221; for the overall economy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Timothy James Imholt</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy James Imholt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The magnitude is fairly sure due to conversations with insurers.  These are their models.  Should their models prove correct this is accurate.


Timing models depend upon what other policy shifts the administration decide to make.  Everything in the news seems to be focused on causing things to shift further out in time (trying to delay the pain) so if nothing changes....This timing is accurate.  If things change (my guess is) they will try to push it past the mid term elections...(Self serving of course)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The magnitude is fairly sure due to conversations with insurers.  These are their models.  Should their models prove correct this is accurate.</p>
<p>Timing models depend upon what other policy shifts the administration decide to make.  Everything in the news seems to be focused on causing things to shift further out in time (trying to delay the pain) so if nothing changes&#8230;.This timing is accurate.  If things change (my guess is) they will try to push it past the mid term elections&#8230;(Self serving of course)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ellman48</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ellman48]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 05:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Realists and conservatives predict oblivion while liberals and leftists predict nirvana. One of these groups will be profoundly mistaken about what the results of Obamacare will be. Just by virtue of the fact that it is a government regulated and controlled program suggests calamity is more likely than blessing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Realists and conservatives predict oblivion while liberals and leftists predict nirvana. One of these groups will be profoundly mistaken about what the results of Obamacare will be. Just by virtue of the fact that it is a government regulated and controlled program suggests calamity is more likely than blessing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Drakken</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drakken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 05:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well unless people are willing to get their hands dirty and do what needs to be done, this is exactly what is going to happen, get the marshmallows.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well unless people are willing to get their hands dirty and do what needs to be done, this is exactly what is going to happen, get the marshmallows.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ellman48</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ellman48]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 05:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;By this, we are not talking about the various social regulations on 
smoking, drinking, trans-fats or sweets that may come along with the new
 health care regime — though that may well happen.&quot;


How perceptive! Of course this will happen. Orwell&#039;s dystopia will become a reality as the government invades our kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms, all in the name of making us healthier. We will learn how diabolical and dangerous the Left really is!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By this, we are not talking about the various social regulations on<br />
smoking, drinking, trans-fats or sweets that may come along with the new<br />
 health care regime — though that may well happen.&#8221;</p>
<p>How perceptive! Of course this will happen. Orwell&#8217;s dystopia will become a reality as the government invades our kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms, all in the name of making us healthier. We will learn how diabolical and dangerous the Left really is!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 03:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That’s leads us to the tough question. What’s the net loss of policy holders. With employers ending their group policies, only some people will replace it with individual policies. The net loss of insured will lead to a disinvestment (I assume long fixed income investments) as you argue (excellent point, btw). 

I understand that current employers will pay the fine instead of establishing insurance. But why again will current employers ending their insurance and why so many at once, in the coming year? 

I understand that the current self-insured will not all replace their policies. It looks like twice as many  lose a policy than gain a policy. And I assume there will be a gradual cultural change as (a) it appears that only suckers pay when you can wait until you’re sick (b) low-risk people are subsidizing high-risk people. And this leads to the death spiral. But this takes time. You seem to argue a sudden change of great magnitude on the scale of the short-term cyclical boom-bust cycle and not the long-term structural debt and ruin. Are you sure about both magnitude and timing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s leads us to the tough question. What’s the net loss of policy holders. With employers ending their group policies, only some people will replace it with individual policies. The net loss of insured will lead to a disinvestment (I assume long fixed income investments) as you argue (excellent point, btw). </p>
<p>I understand that current employers will pay the fine instead of establishing insurance. But why again will current employers ending their insurance and why so many at once, in the coming year? </p>
<p>I understand that the current self-insured will not all replace their policies. It looks like twice as many  lose a policy than gain a policy. And I assume there will be a gradual cultural change as (a) it appears that only suckers pay when you can wait until you’re sick (b) low-risk people are subsidizing high-risk people. And this leads to the death spiral. But this takes time. You seem to argue a sudden change of great magnitude on the scale of the short-term cyclical boom-bust cycle and not the long-term structural debt and ruin. Are you sure about both magnitude and timing?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dad1927</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dad1927]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 03:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[give illegals medicaid. No doctor will take it anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>give illegals medicaid. No doctor will take it anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Timothy James Imholt</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy James Imholt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is dependent on the size of the employer.  The challenge is that it comes from a simple fact.  The fine on the employer is far less than the cost of the insurance.  Most of the employer cancellations are going to come from small to medium sized companies for the time being, or so the statements i was given said.  Small companies are especially conscious of survival and need to be careful with costs.  I don&#039;t know the number of employers but 50-100 Million is something like 8-25% of the country.  So doing the math the percentage of employers would likely be slightly lower than that range (who knows where in that range it really falls).  Could be higher than these numbers as they are estimates.  Could be lower, but the result is the same.  Money flows out of the capital markets as part of an unintended consequence of the law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is dependent on the size of the employer.  The challenge is that it comes from a simple fact.  The fine on the employer is far less than the cost of the insurance.  Most of the employer cancellations are going to come from small to medium sized companies for the time being, or so the statements i was given said.  Small companies are especially conscious of survival and need to be careful with costs.  I don&#8217;t know the number of employers but 50-100 Million is something like 8-25% of the country.  So doing the math the percentage of employers would likely be slightly lower than that range (who knows where in that range it really falls).  Could be higher than these numbers as they are estimates.  Could be lower, but the result is the same.  Money flows out of the capital markets as part of an unintended consequence of the law.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334221</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d like to know the magnitude of employer cancelations. 10% 40% 100% ? What have you heard?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to know the magnitude of employer cancelations. 10% 40% 100% ? What have you heard?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But David, that&#039;s the next phase beyond Obamacare. Of course, we all know it isn&#039;t over with Obamacare and the individual market. It&#039;s a domino effect with O&#039;care being the current domino. When it&#039;s done it will be 1/6th of the economy with government nationalization of the health care system.


And then I&#039;d argue it will be worse than you say. A complete nationalization will double the number of government employees. And the new healthcare employees will want parity with teachers and police when it comes to benefits. Imagine doubling government pensions and benefits! Detroit is our future ... down the line.


But O&#039;care by itself isn&#039;t going to do it ... but watch those dominos.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But David, that&#8217;s the next phase beyond Obamacare. Of course, we all know it isn&#8217;t over with Obamacare and the individual market. It&#8217;s a domino effect with O&#8217;care being the current domino. When it&#8217;s done it will be 1/6th of the economy with government nationalization of the health care system.</p>
<p>And then I&#8217;d argue it will be worse than you say. A complete nationalization will double the number of government employees. And the new healthcare employees will want parity with teachers and police when it comes to benefits. Imagine doubling government pensions and benefits! Detroit is our future &#8230; down the line.</p>
<p>But O&#8217;care by itself isn&#8217;t going to do it &#8230; but watch those dominos.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Timothy James Imholt</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy James Imholt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Insurance Executives I spoke with while researching this said these numbers come from employers known to be canceling the coverage they currently offer. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Insurance Executives I spoke with while researching this said these numbers come from employers known to be canceling the coverage they currently offer. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: A Z</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll get it]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll get it</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: keyster</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keyster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There will be Medicaid/Medicare and there will be consierge/cash only.
There will be no health care insurance market in 3 years.
The business model collapses without government bailouts, which won&#039;t happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will be Medicaid/Medicare and there will be consierge/cash only.<br />
There will be no health care insurance market in 3 years.<br />
The business model collapses without government bailouts, which won&#8217;t happen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: davidforsmark</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidforsmark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can&#039;t seriously believe that the employer based insurance market will not be affected.  The Democrats certainly don&#039;t believe it, or the employer mandate would not have been extended beyond the next election.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t seriously believe that the employer based insurance market will not be affected.  The Democrats certainly don&#8217;t believe it, or the employer mandate would not have been extended beyond the next election.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MotherGoos3</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/david-forsmark/the-looming-obamacare-market-crash-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5334127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MotherGoos3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frontpagemag.com/?p=213280#comment-5334127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, hello there, comrade.  Welcome to the Let.It.Burn. party.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, hello there, comrade.  Welcome to the Let.It.Burn. party.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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