Is the Zimmerman Case Really Open and Shut?

george-zimmermanIs the Zimmerman case really open and shut?

Many conservatives seem to think so. But are they letting leftists dictate their conclusion? Are they not guilty of the same rush to judgment that made liberals convict Zimmerman before the facts, and merely reacting to that injustice rather than to the actual elements of the case? Is it not possible that they are themselves victims of a toxic environment that polarizes all things racial?

It is a fact that many, if not most conservatives have already concluded that George Zimmerman is innocent of any crime in connection with Trayvon Martin’s death and should be acquitted if justice is to be served. Indeed, this opinion was formed long before the trial began as a reaction to the outcry of liberals that Zimmerman was guilty — and guilty of being white – and that the crime was murder, and must be punished. But just because a lynch mob has formed to condemn Zimmerman in advance of the facts, does not mean one must conclude that Zimmerman is innocent of Trayvon Martin’s death.

The political melodrama that surrounds, and often overwhelms the judgments in this case reflects a culture war that has been roiling in this country for decades. It is a war in which the liberal ethos of “political correctness” requires that whites are bad and blacks are victims. Right-thinking individuals are justified in rejecting this poisonous standard.  But in the interests of justice, the political melodrama should also not be allowed to obscure the reality of this trial: it is about the death of an unarmed 17-year-old, who was not a felon, who was on a neighborhood run to get Skittles, and whose life has been extinguished. Given that the young man was unarmed and that he inflicted very superficial injuries on his adversary during their scuffle, Zimmerman’s claim that he was in fear for his life has to be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least.

What we have learned through the process of the trial thus far is that the only surviving witness, Zimmerman, is not credible. He has lied on several revealing occasions. First about not having any money to post bail when he had $150,000 in his account. Second, about not being aware of the Stand Your Ground Law, when he had taken a class that discussed the law. Third, and most importantly, about Trayvon jumping out of the bushes to attack him — because those bushes don’t exist. So, one has to ask, did he also lie about returning to his vehicle and that only then was he attacked? Or was he still following Trayvon, provoking the alleged attack?

Most disturbing to me is the interview Zimmerman gave to Sean Hannity before the trial began. Sean asked him if he regretted anything he did that night. He said no. Sean rephrased the question and asked him if there was anything he did that night that he would do differently. He said no. Then Sean asked him to explain why not. He said, “it was God’s plan.”

I thought to myself, even if I had been jumped and beaten until I was scared for my life as Zimmerman claims, now that I knew my victim was an unarmed 17-year-old with no criminal record, angry that I had followed him, wouldn’t I have had some second thoughts? Wouldn’t I have felt I should have phoned 911 from my vehicle and left it at that? Wouldn’t I have wished that I had been more careful with my firearm and aimed it away from his chest? Or not carried it at all that night? Wouldn’t I have been full of remorse that I had taken a man’s life?

Might it not be possible that the toxicity of the racial environment also affected Zimmerman so that he saw in Trayvon an image from the melodrama and not the actual young man who was walking in front of him? Might Travyon have been a victim of the same racially poisoned atmosphere then, as Zimmerman appears to be now?

We’ll never know.  What really happened that night is buried with Trayvon Martin. We cannot hear both sides and split the difference or reject one and embrace the other. What we do know is that a young man  who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead. And shouldn’t there be some penalty to pay for that?

Here is what I think as a result of these reflections. The Stand Your Ground Law should be rewritten to apply only to home invasions since then it is clear that the intruder is the aggressor and the response is self-defense. Second, Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry. If you are carrying a weapon it changes your attitude and can well lead you into dangerous situations (such as following someone who doesn’t want to be followed) that you would otherwise avoid. And worse it can lead you to take the life of someone who whatever he did, did not deserve to die.

Freedom Center pamphlets now available on Kindle: Click here.  

  • GSauce

    I agree with you that we shouldn’t rush to exonerate Zimmerman without a proper consideration of the facts, but it is important not to create a false equivalence here. Zimmerman has the presumption of innocence. It might be unwise to fall into a trap of defending a guilty man, but to rush to condemn an innocent one is many times more heinous. That is what the left has done, and regardless of the outcome, it is the greater sin.

    • Tipper Top

      Let us all also watch the actions of Judge Nelson in this trial. What she believes is quite evident. She has been biased as all get out toward the Prosecution and regardless of the outcome of this trial, if indeed there is a conviction, I would contend, based on the Directed Verdict of an Acquittal argument by O’Mara, that a conviction would indeed be overturned based on the laws of the state of Florida. In fact, a directed verdict of not guilty at the end of the State’s case was called for – no doubt about it in my mind.

      • BAW

        I was thinking the judge (obviously lacking the character to do the right thing) would have been afraid to make the decision. That she would not have wanted to be the one blamed or responsible for what might happen. So she left it to average citizens to be the responsible ones. I can’t imagine how they feel. I know what I hope I would do but they and their families could be in for serious abuse and possibly genuine danger. Just another part of the travesty I think this trial has been.

      • Progressives Rule

        You do know that no one thinks very much for what is “on your mind”, right? We know what racists like you think.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Funny. The rest of us think that about you. It’s not hard to figure out why but if anybody is too dumb to do it, you’re the one.

        • Drakken

          There you go again throwing out that race card like so much confetti, guess what libtard, that dog don’t hunt no more, because you liberals overused and abused it to shut down any type of debate you didn’t like.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Never forget thst judges are the self righteous scum of the Earth. Much worse than lawyers and other terrorists.

    • catherineinpvb

      Agree; absolutely. . .the responses here – by the ‘Left’. ..and the ‘Right'; are NOT two sides of the same coin.

      That said; just ‘why’ can this NOT be; what it appears to be – to those who have no racist ax to grind. Indeed; let us not fall into the same rabbit hole; as that which the Left historically occupies. We have no reason to be so accommodating to what we know is a Leftist racist hatred – and as always; a Leftist Agenda that goes with it.

      This suggestion; by it’s being ‘too’ rational and without a ‘moral ground’ to support it. . .defies Reason. IMHO.

      • JamesMc

        There are more axes than the racial one’s being ground. There is also the gun-control axe and the SYG axe as well. It’s pretty clear that that’s where Mr. Horowitz’s argument is coming from. He comes at it from the POV that owning a gun for self defense is inherently wrong.

  • c2c

    I was first taken back by Zimmerman’s statement “it was God’s plan,” however, we cannot know his frame of mind in response to Hannity. His response could be an overall thought process he was working through and ready to give when he got a few cue words that would trigger such a response. We can be guilty of “sound bite” judging a man here.

    And Horowitz asks “Wouldn’t I have been full of remorse that I had taken a man’s life?” Do you really think he had no remorse? Be for real, of course he did! He also was being condemned to death by the entire media and most of the country without a trial, when he gave that interview. C’mon they were publishing addresses in their rush to judgment. (Even it is the wrong address, but what does that matter?) What demeanor do you show during an interview? If you wear remorse on your sleeve does that imply guilt? If you are solemn does that mean indifference? It is so easy to judge.

  • T.A.

    It is true that Zimmerman hasn’t conducted himself perfectly by any means. However, so far, there does not seem to be sufficient evidence to say he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

    I think it would take quite a bit of force for a blow to the head to result in any gash. Just because the wound is superficial doesn’t mean Zimmerman was not in danger of losing consciousness if he couldn’t have gotten Trayvon to stop beating his head against the concrete.

    Think of it this way: If someone has a garrotte around your neck, your life is in danger long before you have significant wounds. The same is true if someone is able to beat your head on concrete and you can’t stop them.

    • Eldon Roehl

      Lots of people have been killed by one punch with a fist.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Exactly. And some of us are permanently disfigured from fights. Getting your @$$ kicked is only trivial to people who haven’t experienced it. No offense, Horowitz but I suspect you are one of those people.

        • hyedenny

          You’re right. But he certainly is getting a well-deserved ass kicking on this thread!

  • OfficialPro

    Hm, interesting. Good point. We’ll have to see what happens.

  • gloria stewart

    David Horowitz is correct that with the death of Trayvon Martin, there is only one story. I disagree with him on a number of points, however. One of the prosecution witnesses, John Good, was probably the most credible witness as he was in the closest proximity to the fighting, he walked out on his porch, and he had the porch light on. He described the person on top in the fighting as wearing a black shirt and a black hoodie – Martin, and the person beneath him as wearing a red shirt – Zimmerman. Good also said that the person on top was banging the head of his opponent into the ground and seemed to be using MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) tactics.That comports with Zimmerman’s story and places him in a defensive position.

    Zimmerman did not have life threatening injuries? Are you serious? Perhaps he did not, but should he have waited until Martin gave him more injuries? Was there a doctor standing by blowing a whistle when the injuries became life threatening.

    The Stand Your Ground Law should not be limited to home invasions. People should be able to defend themselves against car jackings and assaults, including rape, outside of their homes. I am really not interested in leveling the playing field for assailants.

    What if Zimmerman knew that, according to FBI statistics, black on white crime is 40 times more common that white on black crime? It is easy to quibble about the technicalities of self defense after the fact.

    • defcon 4

      That’s a good point, when you’re getting your head beaten repeatedly into the ground, how can you expect someone to know if Trayvon intended to continue beating your head into the ground or if he would stop? After all, if you wait too long, you’ll be unconscious or dead.

      • DebRollin

        Good point, so should Zimmerman just keep allowing his head to be smashed on the cement without fighting back…. Heck no, especially when someone is intent on breaking the skull!

        • MannieP

          If the scalp is split, you must acquit.

          • gfmucci

            Good one!

        • fistdeyuma

          The standard is would a reasonable person believe his life was in danger. This is a hard one because if you have not been in that situation you cannot put yourself in Z’s shoes. I have been and understood, after the fact, that my life was not in danger. However, at the time I felt it was, and would have used a weapon if I had one. Will the ladies on the jury understand that? That is the question.

    • Steven Chavez

      “IF THE SCREAM DOESN’T FIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT!”

      The prosecution case is horrible and they’re only relying on a mother’s and brothers testimony? THEY’RE LYING because the case is based on who was on top, or the aggressor. The father said it wasn’t Trayvon’s voice and now it is? The brother said he wasn’t sure and now it is?

      DID THE DEFENSE OR PROSECUTION RECREATE the violent confrontation with Zimmerman screaming, same 911 caller, same cell phone, same distance away, and then analyse the scream by experts? IF NOT, WHY NOT?

      AS A PROFESSIONAL WHO USES HIS EARS FOR A LIVING, I say it’s Zimmerman’s voice. (No Dumbo jokes allowed. LOL) A John Wayne or Frank Sinatra voice is the same, and recognizable, no matter what note they are singing. I don’t have to hear Trayvon’s.

      DID TRAYVON HAVE INJURIES to his knuckles and fist? Of course he did like any who would hit a person hard skull RIGHT? All of us have hit someone on the face or skull and it hurts right?

      THE JURY IS NOT STUPID. They know the family is lying.

      “NOT GUILTY” EXPECT RIOTS. Expect White/Black Obama to do nothing too since they will destroying cities for his “SON” just like Occupy caused million$ in damage in his name. He loves this division. Sharpton, Jackson, and the race pimps love division.

      • ziggy zoggy

        I have to wonder why the defense doesn’t bring Zimmerman’s family into court to identify his screaming voice. Oh, wait. They want to come out smelling rosy no matter the verdict, so they wont commit themselves to a full out defense.
        Lawyers are scumbags and we should never forget that.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Well, the defense brought in Zimmerman’s mother to identify his screaming voice and contradict the $hit eating lies of widdle Twayvon’s racist pig of a mother. I guess I was full of it. Not the first time…..

          • BAW

            Well, at least you admitted you were wrong. And that is a very good sign.

          • Charles

            Nope, you were not full of it.

          • Progressives Rule

            Racists like you in Florida, and throughout the south, are the reason crimes like this continue to happen.

          • Charles

            So, you think it is a crime to defend yourself from bodily harm? What planet are you from?

          • Progressives Rule

            How many times are you going to write the same thing? Do you think we’re all as illiterate as you?

          • Drakken

            It would seem that a progressive/commi like you really do believe, that I feel therefore I am as policy positions really do work because you wish them to be and anyone who disagrees with your type are all racist.

          • Progressives Rule

            And what evidence has been presented at this trial that proves Martin was the aggressor?

            The only evidence presented as to who started the fight came from Dee Dee. She heard the Coward confront Martin.
            To your question, Martin was simply defending HIMSELF from the Coward!

          • Wrabble

            Guess what, I know exactly what happened that night because I have been paying attention to the media!

            9-year old Trayvon Martin was on his way home from choir practice and delivering hot meals to the elderly.

            He stopped to hold umbrellas for a Girl Scout Troop which was raising money for quadriplegic AIDS victims in Africa. After he helped the Girl Scouts, he then delivered 10 Golden Retriever puppies which were breach birth.

            That’s when George Zimmerman pulled up in his Hummer, on his way home from a White Hispanic KKK meeting. High on meth and shouting racist slogans, GZ saw TM and opened up with his twin roof-mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

            TM saved all the Girl Scouts and then went back to save the Golden Retriever puppies.

            GZ ran out of ammunition so he unholstered two Desert Eagle .44 magnum pistols and started firing at the puppies and TM.

            That’s when TM was hit in the back by 32 rounds of hollow-point, teflon-coated & explosive ammunition.

            With his last breaths, TM prayed for GZ and forgave him.

            Then GZ called his cop buddies who were at the KKK rally. They cleaned up the site and made the Girl Scouts and Golden Retrievers “disappear” in the Everglades so there would be no witnesses. They washed the blood from GZ’s jowls after he gnawed on TM’s still beating heart.

            It must be true! Justice for Trayvon (and his mother’s merchandising rights)!

            Oh yes, GZ is the current world champion for ALL schools of martial art and had just escaped from a mental institution for the criminally insane. A few years earlier, he was indicted for murder eight times but got off only because his father was a Supreme Court Justice.

          • Charles

            So, I guess that white boy should have just let TM pound him to death, and everything would be cool.

          • wentworthcheswell

            You mean the Hispanic boy……they are rewriting this guys ethnicity…..He’s just like barack obama..he is half and half…..just like barack obama and they call barack obama black. Shouldn’t they call him white just to make it fair that is?

          • Drakken

            Please step away from the crackpipe.

          • infidel1375

            Jeantel was about as credible as the name “Rolex” on a $50 watch. She’s changed her story at least three times. No wonder you’re a prog.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Progressive Stool, you are just another left-wing hypocrite who whines about fictional Southern racism and denies the real racism of Blacks. Martin was a racist POS. All his family and friends seem to have been so as well. The only one of them I have any sympathy for is his obviously gay half brother. A family that intolerant and hateful isn’t likely to accept his sexual orietation.

          • Progressives Rule

            Stupid ziggy said: “his obviously gay half brother”.

            Racist AND homophobic, ehh? Let me go out on a limb here… , born and bred in the south ziglets?

          • Kevin Stowell

            It doesn’t have anything to do with regressives continually encouraging black misbehavior by treating it as dismissively as to call it “a part of their culture?”
            You’re just as dumb here as you are at the other sites where it seems you think a blog trial is occurring and you’re a jury foreman.
            Put down the noose.

          • ziggy zoggy

            “Regressives” is the term I also use to describe so called “progressives” (left-wing moonbats.)

            Marx and Engels were tools and their 19th century economic fantasies are not a blueprint for a social Utopia.(Sir Thomas Moore was a visionary, BTW, and far FAR from a socialist.)

            Black Americans are the worst aggregate members of American society and we are all supposed to pretend the opposite is true? Part of “their” culture? since when is race a culture?

            F*** every leftard trying to railroad Zimmerman and sanctify the thoroughly repulsive Martin. F*** uo your @$$es.

          • Kevin Stowell

            Kinda amazing, isn’t it, the facility with which the left distance themselves from the havoc they sow? God help the poor sap who actually notices and knows where the blame rightfully belongs.
            Like you, I suspect, I eagerly await seeing something, from anyone on the left, genuinely deserving to be labeled “progressive.”

          • Progressives Rule

            Zimmerman the WannaBeCopCowardLiar is a murderer. I don’t know what’s worse, him lying about what happened to cover up his “Little Man” syndrome murder or imbeciles like you blindly believing him.

            Stupid ziggy said: “Black Americans are the worst aggregate members of American society”
            I rest my case against your racist heart.

            A little anal obsessed, pal? Have much experience in thqt dept? LOL!

          • Progressives Rule

            What do you think you know about black “misbehavior” mo-ron?

          • ¡Jorge Libre!

            Ow!

          • Northpaw

            This phenomenon rates a ranking under the category of the soft bigotry of low expectations. No acquittal, no matter the justification, is permitted because Trayvon is a person-of-color and Zimmerman is not.

            Ironically conservatives get the racist label for pointing out the truth thus displaying our equal-under-the-law treatment of all people regardless of their color, whereas the true racists are the lib regressives who will condemn an obviously innocent man due entirely to his lack of skin color, i.e. a person of pallor.

          • Kevin Stowell

            Well-stated…everything. The “person of pallor” is funny.

          • Wilkins Micawber

            Racist blacks are the reason most crime in this country happens.

          • infidel1375

            That’s retarded. I grew up in the SF Bay area, and I was regularly subjected to violence by black kids bent on teaching “whitey” a lesson. But black folks can’t be racist without the racism of whites, you say. Stupid…

        • Blake hitler

          they brought in an expert from the fbi who determined it’s impossible to determine who made the screams. please read something called a newspaper

          • ziggy zoggy

            That “expert” testimony was made before the triak even began. I’ll read a newspaper as soon as I’m finished fetching water from the creek, watching CNN and hunting dinosaurs. Seriously. Who is stupid enough to read a newspaper inn 2013?

          • Blake

            so people who read newspapers(including online newspapers such as this article) are stupid? lol.

          • ziggy zoggy

            This is an online newspaper? LOL! And yes, only r@tards read newspapers or watch non-Fox news stations.

          • Progressives Rule

            You read the news and… oh… wait… you “watch” Fixed Noise? Oh, I’m sorry for picking on you. You’re obviously handicapped .

        • Charles

          Treyvon was a scumbag. His gangsta texts prove that.

          • Progressives Rule

            And you’re an idiot. Your posts prove this.

          • Charles

            Oh my goodness, your name calling lends tons of credibility to you.

        • http://www.federaleagent86.blogspot.com/ Federale

          Typical commie response. Zimmerman’s family members did appear in court and testify that it was Zimmerman calling for help.

      • Progressives Rule

        Mr ears, the WannaBeCopCoward said Martin was SCREAMING at him “Shut up! Shut UP! You’re going to die tonight”. Where is that on the 911 recordings?
        .
        How could the coward scream if he was being suffocated?
        .
        Where is the blood on Martin’s hands? There should be tons of it if he was suffocating the Coward whose nose was bleeding so much. Once he was shot and fell on the ground the rain would no longer be washing the blood off his hands!.
        .
        How did Martin’s arms get underneath him if the Coward pulled them out?.
        .
        How did Martin see the black gun in the pitch black under the Coward’s jacket?
        .
        Hmmmmmmmmm……

        • Nomadic100

          If I thought that anything I might say in reply to your post would make any difference, then I would reply to your what you have written. But your name says it all, so I won’t be bothered.

          • Progressives Rule

            You won’t be “bothered” because you have no points. Answer my questions or move along.

          • Nomadic100

            Are you trying to “rule” me? Good luck!

          • Progressives Rule

            I already rule you. Intellect rules dumb racism every time. Answer the questions coward. Please show your hand and answer with your assumptions that have not been presented as evidence in this trial.
            Please, try to make a case that you actually have a working brain.
            I won’t hold my breath.

        • ziggy zoggy

          “Mr ears, the WannaBeCopCoward said Martin was SCREAMING at him “Shut up! Shut UP! You’re going to die tonight”. Where is that on the 911 recordings?” Zimmerman didn’t claim Martin “screamed” anything and the 911 recordings don’t cover the entire attack by martin.

          “How could the coward scream if he was being suffocated?” nobody claimed Zimmerman was being suffocated, you ret@rd.

          “Where is the blood on Martin’s hands? There should be tons of it if he was suffocating the Coward whose nose was bleeding so much. Once he was shot and fell on the ground the rain would no longer be washing the blood off his hands!.” I guess it was magic rain that doesn’t wash blood after somebody is shot. And maybe unicorns are p!ssing down my back when I think it’s raining, you hopeless imbecile.

          “How did Martin’s arms get underneath him if the Coward pulled them out?” An absolutely nonsensical question. racist cretin.
          .
          “How did Martin see the black gun in the pitch black under the Coward’s jacket?’ how did he see anything, you lackwit?
          Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……

          • Progressives Rule

            Stupid ziggy said: “Zimmerman didn’t claim Martin “screamed” anything and the 911 recordings don’t cover the entire attack by Martin.

            The WannaBeCopCowardLiar stated in his interview with detective Servino, “He’s on top of me and he’s telling
            me to, ‘Shut the [expletive] up, shut the [expletive] up,’” said Zimmerman. Do you always make an argument with bs? Or are you just too damm stupid to understand how a trial works?

            Stupid ziggy said: “Nobody claimed Zimmerman was being suffocated, you ret@rd.”

            The WannaBeCopCoawrdLiar stated “He was
            mounted on me but he had pressure on my mouth and nose, suffocating me,”. Are you paying attention to
            the trial, Dumbo, or just watching Fixed News?

            Stupid ziggy said: “I guess it was magic rain that doesn’t wash blood after somebody is shot. And maybe unicorns are p!ssing down my back when I think it’s raining, you hopeless imbecile.”

            In other words, you don’t have an answer for those questions. You shouldn’t feel too bad tho. None of the
            other racists have any answers for those questions either. And in keeping with your southern, Intelligent Design (talk about an oxymoron!) intellect, a total
            lack of any facts backing up the WannaBeCopCowardLiar’s “story” doesn’t seem to
            matter. You people are pathetic..

            I asked: “How did Martin’s arms get underneath him if the Coward pulled them out?”

            Stupid ziggy said: “An absolutely nonsensical question. racist cretin.”

            Again, no answer for a very real question in this case. The coward Liar stated he pulled Martin’s arms out
            after he murdered him. So, how did they get underneath him by the time the first witness got there? Rigarmortis? (That’s when a dead body stiffens but, it usually occurs 3 to 4 hours after death. In this case, the murdered boy hadn’t even been dead 3 to 4 minutes. So much for that excuse, ehh?) The best you can come up with is to call me a “cretin”? LOL!

            Stupid ziggy said: “How did he see anything, you lackwit? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……”

            Again, no answer for a very real question in this case. Annnnd, the Coward claimed Martin was kneeling over him – with his thigh covering his holster. Does he have eyes in the back of his head? Do your community a favor
            and never do jury duty. Such ignorance and stupidity is amazing.

            More goodies for you…
            Det. Serino asked Zimmerman why he doesn’t know the street names after living in the neighborhood for three years.

            “To be honest with you, I have a bad memory anyway,” said Zimmerman.

            Then we shouldn’t believe anything he has said because
            1) he’s now a proven liar and
            2) he has a bad memory!

            Det. Serino asked Zimmerman if he told Martin he was neighborhood watch. Zimmerman says no.
            Serino says that maybe if he did, they wouldn’t be there.
            And the Coward was trained to identify himself first! But, more importantly, he was TRAINED!!! to NEVER confront anyone. Yet, he did!

            Sincy Stupid ziggy obviously isn’t paying attention, here’s a link to the Coward’s interview with the detectives. I’m sure it won’t change your already made up mind
            about anything but, you can refer to it while laying in bed in your mother’s basement after the WannaBeCopCowardLiar is sent to prison to see why he’s there: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/01/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-6

    • WillyWallace

      Previous statements, lies, interviews, and actions by Zimmerman are not important. Remember, Paula Deen is being hung for something she said decades ago, and all of us have said at one time.

      David, you too were a Communist so we have to judge you by your past or you want us to judge in the present?

      Did Zimmerman wet his bed when he was a child? Important?

      Yes, the “God” statement was weird but it’s weird when MMA fighters praise God/Jesus for allowing him to beat the holy cr*p out of his opponent. I always cringe too when fighters make the Sign of the Cross. “Dear Almighty Lord, please help me beat the he!! out of this guy.”

      • MikeSchilling

        and all of us have said at one time.

        No. Lots of us don’t use that word.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Mike is Shilling for the DNC;
          “No. Lots of us don’t use that word.”
          Why not? How are racial slurs against Blacks the ultimate evil? I notice that the people who refuse to call a spade a spade are the most intolerant of all – after their islamopithecine fellow travelers, of course. Get over yourselves. How many times have you said “cracker” or “trailer trash?”
          Prig.

          • MikeSchilling

            If I want to insult someone, instead of bringing up irrelevancies like race, I sat “Bigot. Moron. Thug. Jerk. Waste of space.” Got it?

          • MidwestMother

            “Why not?’ Because not all of us like to use racial slurs at all – no matter what the heritage of the other person. So no, I have never called anyone any of the words you tossed out. In fact, some of us took note of the factual results of the Genome project and realized there is no “gene” for “race.” There are only “familial” genes for fair color, eyes, cheek bones, etc. ie: features are passed down in a familial line – not a “race” line, and they have traced back all genes to just one family. So – shake hands with your brother.

            (BTW, before you accuse me of being a lib – I vote ultra-conservative and ALWAYS back the most conservative candidate in the primaries – and weep when ultimately told that my only option in the general election is a choice between a lib and a lib lite. REAL conservatives are Constitutionalists who sincerely believe that all men are created equal.)

        • Charles

          Yeah, well I hear the racist term “Honky” and “Cracker” all the time, and no one says squat. And I hear the rap “siingers” use the “N” word all the time, and no one says anything. So, WHY IN THE HECK ARE THEY NAILING PAULA DEEN FOR SOMETHING SHE SAID YEARS AGO????

      • MannieP

        You’ve got to be careful with those statements. If you are a person of Faith, it must have been “god’s plan,” because it happened. I’d be pretty happy with the outcome, if I had been almost murdered and survived. But I’d like to think I’d be saavy enough and spout some PC bullcrap about how it is always a tragedy when someone dies.

        BS. A murderous thug is dead, and the World is a tiny bit safer.

        Of course, his thug friends will now riot, making the World just a little bit more dangerous.

        • WillyWallace

          True.

          Why is Zimmerman’s supposed racism the only issue? Didn’t Trayvon have racial biases when he told his girlfriend, a 100% dummy, that Zimmerman was a “white a-ss crack*?” That shows Martin hated Whites and was going to teach one a lesson for following him. Zimmerman did what his unpaid job was: To protect the neighborhood.

          Where was Trayvon going? Why did he have a guilty conscience and felt he had to flee?

          My suspicion is that he broke into a home, since it was dark and raining, meaning no lights in a home and perfect for a break-in.

          After incident, the family that Martin stole from, noticed the break-in but kept quiet since it was now a murder investigation and then in the news. Find that family, find the goods, find the tool used, and crime solved.

          In play are the numerous unsolved burglaries and Trayvon’s screw driver and jewelry found at school which could be from the burglaries in Zimmerman’s area.

    • Charles

      Zimmerman is not white.

      • ziggy zoggy

        He’s a White Hispanic, didn’t you hear? LOL! The racial greivance industry has no shame.

    • Wyatt Converse

      Uhhhh, or, maybe just like this case until the nation raised hell about it, when whites attack blacks there isn’t so much as a report filed. Nope, the cops barely even respond to 911 calls in black neighborhoods and they sure aren’t going to “have the resources” to show up after a disturbance and take a report, “why don’t you call crime check or come down to the station and fill one out in the lobby?” Why even bother? Sure, that might not bake up a factor of 40, but it sure will make less and less feel like anyone’s going to listen and soon, it will.

    • banger377

      Sorry David, you are wrong on this one. The two guys that tried to kill me, used their fist’s. I’m a good actor and convinced them I was dead. They took off. One thing, I was too naive to believe that someone would kill me for no reason, other than I was white. Never made that mistake again. It was a good lesson. I won the next two muggings.

  • tij12345

    The jury should ask “Why did Trayvon want to kill Zimmerman if Zimmerman claimed he was friendly to him? Why did Trayvon say YOU GONNA DIE TONIGHT? What benefit will Trayvon get from killing a 5’8 200 pound man on his way home out of the blue for no reason at all?”

    Could it be possible that Trayvon was provoked just like the two men in this youtube video “[FULL]MOMENT Man Pulls Gun in Road Rage Incident HotViralNews” were followed and provoked by the man who owned a gun?

    Did Trayvon tell you his side of the story?

    • objectivefactsmatter

      No doubt this was brinkmanship gone wrong. That doesn’t speak to anyone’s innocence or guilt. That supports Horowitz’s contention that perhaps they are both victims of this atmosphere that was only made worse when our divider in chief started opening his mouth in front of the Whitehouse rostrum.

      We were making slow progress, until the Democratic Party started going completely insane. Now race relations are going backwards and I came to that conclusion long before this incident even started.

    • Black Racism

      is it possibel the oinly thing tracy martin taught trayvon martin were gang signs?

    • ziggy zoggy

      tit00000,
      What the jury should ask is why so many Trayvons kill White people out of racist hatred.

  • Ziggy Stardust

    As a conservative, I have left open the possibility that Trayvon may have quit beating Zimmerman and was getting up and Zimmerman shot him unnecessarily. However, the 2nd degree murder charge; however, is clearly an overreach.

    • JamesMc

      So, Martin was on top beating on Zimmerman until he for some reason quit, who do you believe was yelling?

  • Ben Cohen

    I don’t think Conservatives (really non-leftists) are rushing to judgement at all. I haven’t seen anyone lionizing George Zimmerman.Zimmerman’s story has been largely consistent, and the inconsistencies strike me as trivial. It’s possible Zimmerman was behaving in a provocative manner which created a situation where he had to use lethal force….but I doubt it. Virtually all of the evidence points to Trayvon being the aggressor, aside from the testimony of Rachel Jeantel.

    While Zimmerman isn’t morally blameless, neither is Trayvon. At the very least Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him while he screamed for help. Beating someone screaming for help isn’t defending yourself, it’s not mutual combat, it’s battery. At that point the only question was whether Zimmerman had a reasonable fear for his life, as Trayvon was the aggressor.

    • MikeSchilling

      I haven’t seen anyone lionizing George Zimmerman.

      Just sending him money.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Which is only bad because he’s not a Black leftard.

  • Jeff Garvas

    I’m an very pro-gun person who really questioned Zimmerman’s behavior based on initial reports that he “ran after” the victim or that he ignored a (now clearly irrelevant) request not to pursue the suspicious person. After watching a lot of the trial I now question if the author of this article is watching the same trial I have been.

    The author demonstrates he doesn’t understand this trial in the last paragraph when he states “Stand your ground” should only apply in one’s home. That law already exists in most states – its the castle doctrine concept that was expanded into Stand Your Ground.

    Stand your ground is an improvement upon basic self-defense in that it states you have no obligation to flee an attacker who is actively attacking you. However, basic self-defense only requires someone to flee an attacker IF THEY CAN – in otherwords stand your ground really only broadens self-defense in those cases where you could turn your back, run, and theoretically be shot in the back.

    However – anyone paying attention to the facts of THIS case would know that “Stand Your Ground” isn’t being used here as a self-defense claim outside of the news media trying to bad mouth SYG as some sort of “make my day so I can shoot you” legislation. (That is anything but the truth, there are always elements to self-defense that must be met)

    This defense team COULD have gone before a judge (without a jury) and argued that Stand Your Ground applied here, and sought for a judge to throw the case out. They did NOT do that and are instead arguing basic self-defense in a full blow criminal trial – the same self-defense law that existed for decades prior to stand your ground being adopted. So why are we even talking SYG here?

    In other words, a person in Zimmerman’s situation must attempt to flee an attacker if they can do so. Given the position Zimmerman states he was in he had no option to flee once he was sucker punched by the deceased and then straddled, and thus that legal requirement doesn’t apply to him without any discussion of stand your ground. The fact that the rear of his cloths were noticeably wet and the back of his head exhibited injuries seems to justify that he was, in fact, on his back at some point.

    The contradicting witness statements with respect to position can easily be rectified in the mind of a juror who is listening -just- to the testimony in the courtroom and not the preconceived notions those of us out here are making.

    Good was the only one to see their position PRIOR to the gun shot and insists it was the man on the bottom screaming for help. The other witnesses stated they saw Zimmerman on top -AFTER- the gun shot. This is consistent with Zimmerman’s claims that after the shot he got on top of Martin to grab his arms thinking he had something in his hands. In other words, the contradicting statements of the witnesses with respect to position are consistent with the defendant’s prior statements. Why did the prosecutors put those people up?!!?!

    The fact that Martin was “an unarmed X lbs teenager” is entirely irrelevant to the legal requirements of self-defense. Zimmerman stated numerous times in his interviews that he believed Martin was hitting him with something, and that he stated he was going to die tonight. Those undisputed statements while he is pinned and being beaten conceivably put Zimmerman in a state of fear, regardless of the reality that Martin wasn’t armed with a weapon. In a state like Ohio you simply need to believe that your life is either in danger or that you might suffer “great bodily harm” — that mindset of the shooter is what the jury must decide they agree with or against without any reasonable doubt.

    The author makes a big deal about the fact that there are “no bushes” and attempts to present this as a lie. Zimmerman said this after a traumatic event in which he just learned he killed someone. In his mind there were bushes there, and despite this author’s statements the female investigator who interviewed Zimmerman admitted on the stand that there are in fact very low bushes in front of each unit, but that it doesn’t make sense that Martin could hide behind them after a day-time inspection reviewed there was no real space. Zimmerman conceivable saw them in his peripheral vision at night and assumed that Martin, who he thought wasn’t there anymore, was hiding behind them before he appeared out of nowhere – it was a statement of speculation, not a declaration of fact.

    Supposedly, this is a picture of the bushes that don’t exist:

    http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/112ttback.jpg

    So there are bushes and Zimmerman’s presumption that his attacker came from behind a bush while trying to explain where he came from the night of the shooting seems quite plausible. Presenting it as an intentional lie is a stretch effort to convict Zimmerman in this article.

    Zimmerman probably shouldn’t have gotten out of his car – I think that was pretty stupid on his part. However, getting out of your car and following a suspicious person (or going to look for a valid address) is simply dangerous and stupid. It is not necessarily illegal as the male investigator stated on the stand. Regardless of why he got out of the vehicle there is no evidence that he was the aggressor in a conflict (anything jenteal said is likely to be discarded by the jury) – and there is no legitimate claim that anything a dispatcher said to him was a lawful police order that he somehow violated.

    The author’s opinion that this is a reason to “disarm” someone are silly. If Zimmerman were an off duty police officer or a security guard in the same exact set of facts there wouldn’t be any debate. A person who is lawfully permitted to own a firearm and carry it for self-defense should be able to carry it everywhere they go, less those opposed to gun ownership will just continually make a list of places they don’t think someone should be able to defend themselves.

    It’s important to realize Zimmerman, much like Trayvon, was headed to the store to buy his lunch for the week which is apparently a weekly pattern of his that even his best friend knew. So should someone who happens to be a part of their neighborhood watch (presumably an entire neighborhood) be disarmed because they “might” see something while en route to a store?

    That is a preposterous solution to the perceived flaws here. It’s just as wrong as someone saying a 17 year old with a history of getting into fights shouldn’t be permitted to go to the store without an adult to supervise him – if someone were to seriously suggest that they’d be laughed at.

    My counter argument is presuming everything Zimmerman claims happened is true, and if Martin was in fact intent on killing him that night, then why should we even debate disarming the Zimmermans of the world before this one has even been convicted?

    Unless the prosecution is sitting on some amazing evidence against Zimmerman, and unless the jury judges this case on emotion, rhertoric, and speculation, I can’t see how this isn’t going to result in an acquittal and a bunch of unhappy people who refuse to look at this as the jury has been charged to:

    Comparing those known facts to the elements of the law and making an impartial and unbiased decision, and if you can’t eliminate all doubt from your mind that Zimmerman may have feared for his life, then you have to acquit him.

    • Guest

      If Zimmerman was UNARMED, there is no way in hell unless he is STUPID that he would come out of the car and attempt to follow a suspicious character and risk bodily harm or his life. Zimmerman was ARMED. He knew that coming out of the car following a suspicious character meant that he is ready to shoot, if needed.

      Any citizen in the neighborhood can be part of the neighborhood watch. As a neighborhood watch, they are only supposed to observe and report. The police takes care of the rest. If the citizen tried to pursue the suspect and the citizen gets assaulted by the suspect, the citizen cannot sue the suspect because the citizen purposely placed himself in a dangerous situation. If the citizen pursued the suspect, then the suspect assaulted the citizen at which point the citizen kills the suspect, the citizen cannot claim self-defense. This is because citizen purposely placed himself in a dangerous situation.

    • tij12345

      If Zimmerman was UNARMED, there is no way in h-ll unless he is stupid that he would come out of the car and attempt to follow a suspicious character and risk bodily harm or his life. Zimmerman was ARMED. He knew that coming out of the car following a suspicious character meant that he is ready to shoot, if needed.

      Any citizen in the neighborhood can be part of the neighborhood watch. As a neighborhood watch, they are only supposed to observe and report. The police takes care of the rest. If the citizen tried to pursue the suspect and the citizen gets assaulted by the suspect, the citizen cannot sue the suspect because the citizen purposely placed himself in a dangerous situation. If the citizen pursued the suspect, then suspect assaulted the citizen at which point the citizen kills the suspect, the citizen cannot claim self-defense. This is because citizen purposely placed himself in a dangerous situation.

      This is why Zimmerman created this elaborate story so he can claim self-defense. What the prosecution has to do is to challenge that story.

      • Fredrick Massey

        My head spins with your Kafkaesque nonsense legal training. Nothing you said makes any sense.

        Get the rope. A lynchin’ is whut you want.

      • Black Racism

        I have read no news reports about the controversial law called whites & hispanics are not allowed to exit their vehicles while angry hateful black teens are about

      • ziggy zoggy

        You are misrepresenting the law and giving our woefully inept and corrupt 911 operators and police credit that they have not earned. And by quoting the mentally retarded lies of the lowland gorilla with the inflated inner tube neck, you expose your $hit eating bias. “Rachel” is a repulsive, lying freak of nature and only a moron would believe a word she tried and failed to say in English.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        “The police takes care of the rest. If the citizen tried to pursue the suspect and the citizen gets assaulted by the suspect, the citizen cannot sue the suspect because the citizen purposely placed himself in a dangerous situation.”

        Huh?

      • MannieP

        I have a right to be armed, wherever I go. I have a right to investigate suspicious characters in my neighborhood.

        No credible evidence, whatsoever, has been submitted, that indicates Zimmerman’s guilt. He is not only Not Guilty, he is Innocent. It was a righteous shoot.

      • keyesforpres

        I heard the tape. Zimmerman got out of the car to see what the name of the street was. He was looking for a street sign…then Martin jumped him.

      • Tipper Top

        If Zimmerman was UNARMED, there is no way in h-ll unless he is stupid
        that he would come out of the car and attempt to follow a suspicious
        character and risk bodily harm or his life

        You said the above but you’re basing his actions on what you would do. He was looking for an address, he wasn’t looking for Trayvon. Looking for an address doesn’t require a gun, but neither does it require you to disarm yourself.

        The true question should be put to John Good – if he had pulled Trayvon off of GZ, then Trayvon would probably be alive today.

        Instead, he decided to just call 911 and not get involved. That is what should be addressed here.

      • NAHALKIDES

        You have zero understanding of the law. I think you’re not very bright, either, but that’s no impediment to a successful law career if you want one. You do, however, have to learn at least a little about the law first.

    • Fredrick Massey

      Amen brother,
      I used to live and work in Sanford. In fact I had just moved out of state when this happened. The racial animosity in Sanford is palpable. It is a poor town and the blacks are ripe with drugs and crime.

      People won’t want to hear this but in Sanford, if a black teen is strolling through your neighborhood, he is up to no good.

      GZ’s behavior is totally logical. The police have not put a dent in the crime in decades. Whites are totally disgusted with the Sanford PD.

      I am not picking on any individual officer but there are some officers who have displayed less than professional behavior in the past.

      The detective earlier talked about a black officer who wanted charges brought? Not good.

      I am ashamed with David H. re this article. He thinks like a big city liberal: he sees no right to be armed. He believes talk solves everything.

      This article is a travesty. David convicts GZ and obviously doesn’t what the hell he is talking about.

    • Eldon Roehl

      Methinks Mr. Horowitz’s journey to the right is still a work in progress. He sounds more like a citified RINO or closet lib in this article.

      • cathy

        I am still in the Twilight Zone in regards to David Horowitz’ mindset regarding this issue. I didn’t see it coming. However … another Conservative whose words for the most part reflects my thoughts on the issues also holds a similar viewpoint to Horowitz … a viewpoint that gives the benefit of the doubt to Trayvon Martin … a view point that implies that Trayvon Martin is the victim.

        Allen West On Trayvon Martin Case: ‘This Is An Outrage’
        THURSDAY MARCH 22, 2012
        http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/allen-west-on-trayvon-martin-case-this-is

        • Progressives Rule

          Trayvon Martin IS the victim! Who’s dead? Are you seriously using anything Allen West says to explain ANYTHING? Seriously?

          • keyesforpres

            Martin jumped Zimmerman. Martin was not the victim. He was a short distance from his father’s condo and rather than go on home…he hid in some bushes.

          • Progressives Rule

            Martin is dead stupid. Martin is most certainly the victim, stupid. How ignorant and racist can you be?
            .
            The fact is oh ignorant one, there were NO bushes near the area where the coward murdered the unarmed 17 yr old.
            .
            FACT: There is no evidence that Martin jumped the WannaBeCopCoward.
            FACT: There is evidence that the WannaBeCopCoward attacked Martin.
            .
            And still people like you are ignoring such evidence. The prosecution will tie all of these lies and facts up in a nice neat package for the jury.
            .
            From there on all we can do is hope those 6 women are not right wing, racist, gun barrel sucking NRA lovers.
            Just saying.

          • Nomadic100

            See my reply to you above. You are not interested in any reasoned discussion of the facts. Pathetic!

          • keyesforpres

            Martin was NOT the victim.
            Would you consider a home invader that was shot dead “the victim”?
            Have you seen photos of Zimmerman the night of the attack? His nose is bloody and swollen…it looks broken and the back of his head is bloody.
            You do know that some ppl have died with only one blow to the head? Martin had bruised knuckles consistent with someone punching something hard (a face for example).
            How do you know there were no bushes? Anyway, rather than walk on home Martin hid and jumped Zimmerman.
            I heard the call to the police and Zimmerman got out of the car to try to find a street sign so he could let the operator know what street he was on.
            Speaking of racism…..what about all the black mob violence these past several years?

          • Drakken

            Ah yes the libtard worldview, I feel, therefore I am and if I disagree with you the libtards will call you names, How quaint and predicable.

          • Tipper Top

            Are you SERIOUSLY discounting Allen West simply because he’s a conservative? Come on now, isn’t that a tad bit childish?

          • Progressives Rule

            I would discount anything West says , for the same reason I would discount anything the WannaBeCopCoward would say… they are both proven, documented liars.

          • Drakken

            Well of course you would discount anything a conservative says, your a leftist, progressive and it doesn’t fit your little libtarded worldview.

          • ziggy zoggy

            More like retarded

          • Drakken

            Need a tissue Sparky> It seems your ready to have a complete libtard moment.

          • Progressives Rule

            I think you might need those tissues if you hold West up in high regard. He retired from the army to avoid court marshall proceedings. He stated there are about 80 registered Communists in the Congress. He is a loser of the worst kind. Hence why he his constituents voted him out of office. He is an embarassment.

          • MidwestMother

            I am so, so proud to have shaken West’s hand when I ran into him in one of the House Buildings. I was so proud to introduce my daughter to him. He is a winner. We all read the reports of the fraud that occurred in his district last November. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see what happened. You can spout what ever rhetoric or even revisionist history you want. It won’t change the truth.

            In the end – those who are true, honest, and genuinely love others – as well as love our country – WILL win. You can lie, deceive, even persecute the honest among us – but any wins you and those like you make will be short-lived.

          • Drakken

            I would take a hundred Alan Wests over one of you progressive libtards any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You couldn’t hold a candle to the man much less see fit to wear his shower shoe.

          • MidwestMother

            Allen West was one of our few truly honest, wise, and brave Congressmen. His seat was, indeed, stolen from him. He had proved that, whether or not it was accepted by the state. I pray that he will again have a position of leadership in our country – and a much greater position than he had in the past. IN fact – it should have been him leading our country these last five years, not that person who is currently running our country into the ground.

          • Progressives Rule

            You are the picture of the Repuke party these days. If a bad candidate is voted out of office, by the people!, the election must be crooked, ehh? West, and his admirers, are idiots.

        • BAW

          Wasn’t West’s early reaction based on what we now know was false reporting by the press?

          I know conservatives have learned to skeptical of the press but it’s still hard. I’m probably more skeptical than most and I still fall for something they report because I don’t automatically assume everything they say is false. If the “facts” the press initially reported had been true, I think asking for further investigation was appropriate.

          Has his opinion changed as the facts have come out? I would assume they have.

      • hippiepooter

        We should view evidence based on political prediliction?

        I sincerely hope Mr Horowitz doesn’t travel as far to the right as you sir. Where you are is where no decent human being would wish to find themselves.

        • Eldon Roehl

          Zimmerman was going to the store. If David thinks that going to the store in a dicey neighborhood is not “the right time” to carry a legal handgun, then Mr.Horowitz does not believe in guns, concealed carry or self defense, which makes him a non-conservative.

          • MannieP

            There is no “right time” or wrong time to carry a weapon, provided it is legal to do so. Criminals travel out of their seedy dives, into “nice” neighborhoods. Some of them even live there.

            You do not choose the time. The time chooses you.

          • Progressives Rule

            “carrying” a gun is not the issue.
            Using good judgement while carrying a gun IS the issue. The WannaBeCopCoward used very poor judgement here. He was not a trained policeman. He was a private citizen. He had absolutely no legal right to stop and question anybody about what they were doing.

          • ziggy zoggy

            Cops are private citizens and very undereducated as well. We all have the right to “stop” and question anybody about what they are doing, you unmitigated @$$hole.

          • Tipper Top

            You seem to conveniently forget that GZ said that Trayvon looked at the gun, grabbed for the gun and said ‘you’re going to die tonight mfer’. That was the context in which the gun came into play. It wasn’t in play in going to the store or in calling the non emergency hotline nor in trying to find the address closest to where Trayvon was last seen.

          • keyesforpres

            He didn’t stop and question Martin. He got out of his car to find a street sign so he could tell the operator where he was located. I heard the call. Did you?

          • Progressives Rule

            ROFL! Do you really believe that? He had to look at a street sign for the name of one of only 3 streets in his own development? Are you really that stupid?

            I also heard him say “Okay” when the 911 dispatcher said “We really don’t need you to do that”! He didn’t even slow down.

            Dee Dee testified she heard this while on the phone with Martin: ” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” “

          • NAHALKIDES

            You have a very strange idea of what the law is, or even what it should be. If you’re walking through my neighborhood, I have every legal right to approach you and ask
            1. “What are you doing here?”
            2. “Pardon me, do you know what time it is?”
            3. “Do you know the way to Maple Street?”

            or any other question I might wish. People do get to approach one another and start conversations, you know.

            For your part, you don’t have to answer my question, and you can tell me to go to blazes if you want. But what you cannot do is initiate the use of force by punching me.

            I hope that clarifies things for you just a bit.

          • Progressives Rule

            And I can ignore you. You can not “menace” someone walking along. Dee Dee testified it was the WannaBeCopCowardLiar who started the fight. You’re believing the Coward’s story without any question of his lies.
            Here’s one for you. Trayvon Martin had just as much right to defend himself against a WannaBeCopCowardLiar. He just didn’t know that the Coward had a gun.

      • sacha

        I agree with you. Mr. Horowitz’s was a member of the Black Panthers and a communist so can he really be trusted? He does not have all the facts if the case unless he is helping the prosecution. I wonder if he was as critical of the New Black Panthers and their racist comments concerning whites when they were waiting for Zimmerman to be charged. I guess once a Black Panther and communist always a Black Panther and a communist; Right Mr. Horowitz? BTW I support the 2nd amendment, conceal carry and stand your ground in any situation you are being physically attacked.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Horowitz is wrong but you cant honestly believe he harbors malice and deceit. Seriously, dude

        • NAHALKIDES

          You can trust David! It isn’t easy going from red diaper baby and New Leftist to the Conservative camp, and he made it. But even Conservatives disagree sometimes, and it’s easy to be led astray in a complex case like this. (By “complex” I mean morally. I remain convinced that the legal questions here are simple and easily resolved).

    • bluffcreek1967

      Excellent analysis! When I read Horowitz’s article on this matter, I too wondered if had been watching the same trial. I have great esteem for David Horowitz, but I will have to respectfully disagree with his insight and conclusions on the Zimmerman case.

    • MannieP

      Stand Your Ground is irrelevant to this case. You can only stand your ground, if you have a reasonable ability to retreat. It’s kinda hard not to stand your ground, when you are lying on it, and your opponent is straddling you pounding your head into the concrete. I suspect George would have retreated from that position if he could, even if only to get a better shot.

    • Tipper Top

      Fabulous post. I’d love for you to post something on the Defense’s motion for a Directed Verdict of Acquittal based on O’Mara’s argument. I really do believe if a verdict of something is found here it will be quietly overturned sometime in the future thereby giving the Trayvon supporters their argument of hatered which is rightly overturned as hogwash based entirely upon the law and not the vengeful rhetoric that is in the media and has been since this terrible incident (which happens every day in some American cities, think Chicago) took place.

    • Progressives Rule

      “it states you have no obligation to flee an attacker who is actively attacking you”. That is precisely what Trayvon Martin did. To think Martin’s friend’s testimony will be ignored by the jury if wishful thinking. They’re not privy to all the character assassination racists like you are heaping on her. She is the ONLY one who provided ANY evidence as to who attacked whom. The WannaBeCopCoward IS NOT AN OFF DUTY COP! He had no right confronting anyone.
      .
      To think Martin his behind those 2 feet high bushes that were like 30 feet away is also wishful thinking. The Coward gave 3 different versions of where Martin came from. 3 very different versions.
      .
      He’s a proven liar. It is now obvious he concocted his story after his cowardly murder using all the right words necessary to qualify for the self defense claim. However, the Prosecution has shown that his word is not to be believed. Thus NONE of his STORY can be believed. As I said, all the jury has to do is listen to the detectives interview him. They call him on his lies and he has nothing to say about them.
      .
      Bring in the tailor to measure him for a striped suit. ROFL!

      • Tipper Top

        Rachel lied on several occasions to several people. If you think a jury of women won’t take that into account, you’re simply wrong. Couple that with the way in which she presented herself – as above this foolishness called a jury, a trial and anyone daring to question HER – and you have Rachel’s testimony completely ignored. Women judge women much more harshly than they do men. Accept that as a given.

      • Drakken

        Don’t you ever get tired of throwing out that race card? It has been way overplayed.

        • Progressives Rule

          Race card? Is that what you call facts of the case that prove the WannaBeCopCowardLiar guilty of murder? Hmmmm….

          • Drakken

            When your boy Travon jumped out and attacked Z,it was all over, and your boy Travon won a well earned Darwin Award.

    • JamesMc

      Thank you for your post. It was a well written rebuttal to Horowitz’s sham points about Zimmerman’s trustworthiness.

  • James Minze

    David Horowitz,

    I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, but if anyone deserves it it is you. What if a Black individual came into your yard and started beating what little brains you have against the insides of your skull? Would you make a good victim? Knowing there is a good chance of being shot keeps that Black guy on the street and out of your life…Are you too much of a liberal liar to understand that?

    How dangerous would Martin have been if he had taken that gun and gotten away? His goal was to get rid of the watchman in that area so he could freely case houses to break into

    Zimmerman types protect your right to be stupid,
    and you should thank them for that.

    • tij12345

      Did you or anyone else actually see Trayvon smash Zimmerman’s head on the concrete multiple times?

      Did you get Trayvon’s side of the story?

      There are always two sides to the story. If both parties are alive, there is no doubt that each one will point the finger at each other as to who started it. If Martin was alive, he would say that Zimmerman was trying to detain him and Martin said to “Get off, get off.” So Martin was forced to defend himself from a creepy armed stranger.

      There are two sides to the story and it is a guarantee that one will point at the other that it was his fault if both parties are alive. Zimmerman’s story is that he was being friendly then out of the blue Trayvon attacked him for no reason at all.

      So, we cannot determine who started it.

      Let’s look at the motive.
      Trayvon’s MOTIVE that rainy evening: Buy skittles and iced tea, then go back to the place where he was staying.

      Zimmerman’s MOTIVE that rainy evening: Report Trayvon to police. He did not want these a-h to get away.

      Trayvon was not in a commission of a crime when he was reported to the police. He was just coming back from the 7/11 store.

      You know that Trayvon will vigorously defend himself if he was alive. He was just coming home from a store and this creepy armed dude wanted to detain him so he does not get away.

      So you have to decide knowing that Trayvon has his side of the story also, you have to decide as to who has the motive.

      Who created the murder scene?

      In self-defense cases, the jury will care about who created the murder scene.

      • Sasquatch

        If Martin was alive he’d lie about what happened. I don’t believe Zimmerman is lying about what happened. He’s telling the truth or something damned close to it.

        If Martin was alive and somehow forced to tell the truth, he’d say he knew George was some sort of cop or neighbor on the phone with cops or security or something… didn’t know what, but was PO’d at yet another adult authority figure of some kind trying to get in the way of his continuing life of persistent criminality. So he went off on him and attacked him. He’d admit he was never scared, never screamed, never said “get off” – but those were all actions and emotions he caused in George Zimmerman.

        • Ben Cohen

          ” He’s telling the truth or something damned close to it.”

          Precisely. If he actually lied, his lies were pretty minor and ultimately inconsequential. So Trayvon Martin came out of the darkness instead of from behind the bushes? So what? So George Zimmerman took some criminal justice classes, where does that lead? That GZ is some kind of legal genius who used his extensive knowledge of police procedure and the law to spontaneously concoct a story?

          I don’t think so.

      • Bert Sterling

        Tij, you have yet to see one of the most compelling pieces of evidence.

        The average young adult walks at about 5 feet per second. Between the time the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman he didn’t have to follow and the end of Trayvon and Rachel’s call, about 220 seconds passed, according to the call records. That’s enough time to cover 1,100 feet. Trayvon’s body lay just 200 feet from Zimmerman’s truck. That’s not straight-line, that’s following the sidewalk around the corner.

        Zimmerman ran (he denies running in his reenactment, but the audio shows he was at the very least walking “briskly”) for at least 10 to 15 seconds after getting out of his truck, and before responding to the 911 dispatcher’s advice not to follow with “Okay.” That’s enough time to walk 50 to 75 feet. It’s easily enough time to jog or “briskly walk” twice that.

        Now, as Zimmerman was only about 50 to 100 feet away from the spot where Trayvon would die at the time the dispatcher advised him not to follow, how could he have continued to follow for another 220 seconds, and only move 100 feet? Following someone means you’re moving, you’re going somewhere with a purpose. It doesn’t mean you’re moving at 6 inches per second.

        And, Zimmerman is not the only one who had 220 seconds to get somewhere. Trayvon did too. If, as you say, Trayvon’s motive was to get back to Brandy Green’s home, which was only about 500 feet from Zimmerman’s truck, why in the 220 seconds he had to get there, did he not get there?

        Trayvon’s motive was not to get home. If it were, he would have traveled that 500 feet in far less than 3 minutes and 40 seconds.

        Zimmerman’s motive was not to “catch” Trayvon. If it were, he would have moved much farther than 200 feet from his truck in the 3 minutes and 4 seconds he had to do so.

        Zimmerman didn’t follow, and Trayvon came back. The times and the distances prove this conclusively.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Excellent point. It’s a crime that Zimmerman’s defense team are too stupid to browse websites like this and learn how to do their jobs.

      • James Minze

        My friend you left out all of that physical and circumstantial evidence that does not lie. It all comes down to really one question: Did Martin hit Zimmerman’s head? It does not even need to be a certain level of hard or even on the concrete. Just was he hurting him. If Zimmerman was afraid of great bodily harm he had the right to use deadly force. It is really that simple. Everything else is just details.

      • Black Racism

        i got trayvon’s side of the story.
        NO_LIMIT_NIGGA found his limits

      • Deerknocker

        Yes, there are two sides to the story: Martin was topside throwing punches and Zimmerman was bottom side receiving them.

      • ziggy zoggy

        “Did you or anyone else actually see Trayvon smash Zimmerman’s head on the concrete multiple times?” Did you or anyone else actually see a dinosaur? According to your fallacious argument they never existed. Maybe Zimmerman beat his own head up?

        “Did you get Trayvon’s side of the story?” Trayvon and his vile family are all scum sucking liars. No decent person cares about their “side” of the story. The only side that matters is the truth.

      • tagalog

        Who created the murder scene? Trayvon Martin did. George Zimmerman created a scene in which he was following a person who looked suspicious to him (early reports of his call to 911 included a report that he stated that a person in a hoodie was wandering around the development, looking into windows). Then Trayvon Martin escalated the scene into a murderous assault.

      • semus

        I’m surprised you weren’t called in as a witness for the prosecution, you seem to know exactly what happened. You couldn’t have done any worse than most of the other witnesses. Seriously there shouldn’t even be a trial.

        • Tipper Top

          I’m thinking Dr. Bao is on your side. LOL

          I say this because of the lack of autopsy evidence here. Note that Dr. Bao’s reaction to doing a young black man’s autopsy that had yet to be identified. Seems to me he just went through the motions and didn’t really investigate the death. I could also say that since Dr. Bao had absolutely zero recall of the autopsy that belief is supported by the evidence.

      • Tipper Top

        It’s not iced tea – it’s watermelon fruit juice and that is an important fact that goes toward Trayvon’s use of Purple Lean and DMX which could be proven had the Judge not decided that Trayvon’s past is not going to be brought before the jury, which is unfair on the face of it. A level playing field means both have a past and both of those pasts will be reviewed by the jury. That’s not the case here and you should admit that.

        If you want Trayvon’s side of the story out then please at least use the facts and not what the media has fed you, okay?

  • Anamah

    Davis I found what seems to be a relevant information.
    It’s obvious the trial has been a fabrication based on the lynching of Mr Zimmerman. You are able to take this or dismiss it … much better than I … The medical examiner opinion about his injuries based only in a couple of pictures made public, and a her problematic record as the prosecutor attorney with a dishonest history too, has make me suspicious in both women…

    This is a troubling trial …a poisoned farce, until now I feel this like as a mockery of Justice.
    Please see this information.
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/medical-examiner-who-called-zimmerman-injuries-insignificant-no-stranger-to-controversy/

  • Sasquatch

    This article, like so much of the coverage of this case, is incredibly fact-deficient. First off, let me personally dispel, or at least help dispel the notion that conservatives rushed to judgement on this case in the same fashion, but opposite direction as compared to liberals. I was a liberal when this case broke. It is precisely because of how incredibly fact-ignoring, judgement-rushing, and race-baiting my fellow liberals, and formerly trusted liberal news sources were toward this case, that I ended up ceasing to be one.

    It is also not true to portray views on this case as though they are just six of one, half a dozen of the other… or that both sides are equally guilty of viewing it through their political prism. I spent about the first week knowing about this case as someone thinking Zimmerman was an obvious racist, and murdering monster. My perspective changed as a direct result of exposure to more FACTS and EVIDENCE from this case. Increased knowledge of the circumstances of that night, and of the relevant law… is directly connected to being a “pro-Zimmerman” person. The more ignorant and emotional a person is regarding the facts of this case, the more firmly they will support Trayvon. I’ve noticed white talking heads on TV about this case are jumping ship as more information comes out during trial… blacks are circling the wagons which has been the entire story of this case.

    Let me now address a couple of the errors in this article, or possible errors:

    1.) The bushes do exist, David. There are bushes alongside the houses in that dog walk area, and Zimmerman never expressed certainty that Trayvon had been using them to hide. If you look at the totality of his first few statements, all within 24 hours of the incident, it is clear that when he initially mentioned bushes, this was his attempt to make sense of where this person had come from. He at that time wasn’t aware of the likelihood that Trayvon got home and came back to attack. He was called out to from behind, and turned to see Trayvon there. He was trying to make sense of how Trayvon had suddenly reappeared, and suggested the bushes as a possibility. Never did he say he was certain of it, and at the on scene walkthrough he made it clear it was merely the “darkness” that Trayvon had emerged from. So you’re doubly wrong on this, bushes were there, and he wasn’t firm on them anyway. It was him attempting to explain something to police.

    2.) Hannity asked him “before this all happened,had you ever heard ‘stand your ground’?” now this is where you’ll need to pay close attention. “Stand your ground” is a nickname for a 2005 modification of self-defense law, castle doctrine. One can have taken a class that dealt with self-defense law, and not necessarily heard it referred to in that way. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I mostly just heard his professor talking about teaching self-defense law… if anything it seemed he was saying they didn’t focus on state-specific law. But if they did cover SYG, it may have merely been in using the statue number. So, GZ may have merely meant he hadn’t heard that phrase before. Which could be true.

    3.) Zimmerman did not lie about bail money, though it can be argued his wife probably did. However, she offered during the bail hearing to get GZ’s brother on the phone, who had the most up to date figures on the balance of the PayPal account. The prosecutor didn’t take her up on that. Why would she offer to get the exact amount in the account for them if the goal was to hide the funds? Code talk about the funds on prison phone conversations may merely have been GZ not wanting fellow inmates to hear about the money. I will agree that it does seem the Zimmermans were a bit deceptive on this issue, but it’s an unclear situation at best. I find it telling that the prosecutors didn’t include the line about offering to get the up to date figure when they filed charges against her, but included the lines immediately before and after it.

    4.) People assume GZ wouldn’t have behaved the same without a gun but based on paying exhaustive attention to this case, and every bit of available information, I believe he would have. I believe he was 100% certain Trayvon would keep running until he was out of the gates. I don’t think he entertained the idea they’d come into direct contact, at all. I also don’t believe Trayvon was scared in any way, I believe he knew what capacity GZ was acting in and took out frustration at authority and consequences he’d been experiencing lately, on GZ. GZ was the last straw.

    • Ben Cohen

      “I was a liberal when this case broke. It is precisely because of how incredibly fact-ignoring, judgement-rushing, and race-baiting my fellow liberals, and formerly trusted liberal news sources were toward this case, that I ended up ceasing to be one.”

      Precisely. I was also a liberal when this case broke, but the behavior of liberals and frankly “the community” was the last straw. This was the third racial hoax I lived through. First there was the Duke Lacrosse case where a white man looking to win re-election led a lynchmob of blacks/leftists/feminists, based on a fabricated rape. Then I witnessed blacks and leftists cannonize the Jena six, a half dozen thugs who ambushed and mercilessly beat an innocent white kid. Were the Jena Six overcharged? Yes. Were they worthy of the deranged sympathy that moronic leftists and tribalistic blacks gave them? No freaking way. This case was the last straw, for me too.

      • MannieP

        You missed the Tawana Brawley hoax, and the lethal Crown Heights race riot incited by Sharpton.

  • semus

    It’s been a while but and I’m surprised to find I disagree with your conclusions and your characterizations of all involved.

  • Alvaro

    If someone follows me, I have a legal right to assault them? Assault is a felony, following someone is usually not.

    And if someone physically stronger than you sat in top of you and beat *your* head to the concrete several times, would you just lie there and hope the assailant would stop before you passed out or died?

    Without the gun, could Zimmerman have stopped the assault?

    I guess he will get convicted – not because he is guilty of breaking the law, but to prevent a riot like in any third world country.

    • Black Racism

      If you were a feral black teen, the news media and the libtards want the feral teen to have every right to beat your skull into concrete and you have no right to defend youself anymore.
      .
      liberals wont be hapy until all criminals feel safe and are armed while al regular citizens need to be unarmed and afraid of the criminals

    • MannieP

      They will riot anyway.

    • Tipper Top

      I would also add to the above that GZ said that when Trayvon saw the gun, he believed then he was in mortal fear for his life. At that very moment it was live or die for GZ. Couple that with ‘You’re gonna die tonight, MFer’ and I too would believe I was about to die.

      I don’t think anyone could dispute that. Keep in mind, that was GZ’s story from the start and that part has never wavered – not to investigators, State Prosecutors, his attys, any interview, and the jury.

      However, also realize that the info from toxicology has been stopped by the Judge coming in front of the jury that would explain somewhat Trayvon’s mindset that night. Including DMX which is made from the ingredients he purchased at the 7-11 that night. Along with the blunt he had the guys he bargained with, on tape, outside of the 7-11.

      I think there’s a lot about Trayvon the jury won’t hear and that is wrong.

  • Junior Naturel

    DH
    TM was on the career path that would be like those former black panther types you used to have a crush on. how’d that work out for you?

  • cedarhill

    OK. toss all the invterviews of Zimmerman. He won’t take the stand anyways. In fact, remove all of the testimony where Zimmerman isn’t speaking. I.e., presume everything Zimmerman ever said in his life is pure fiction and that he lies like a Lefty or a jihadist.

    Beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Second degree murder?
    Depraved mind?

    Overcharged for political reasons by the prosecution. A redux, in part of that NC rape case at Duke.

    One thing, for sure, is never, ever, under any circumstances, in your wildest dreams, talk to the police if you’ve shot someone. Lawyer up. Always lawyer up. Say N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Even better, never use 911. They’ll use that as well. You may not even remember what you said – most folks don’t. Never forget the State, after the shooting, is your worst enemy and they have vast resources to spend. They’ll investigate anyway, regardless — and they ALWAYS believe you’re lying. Most of their efforts will be oriented to showing you’re lying and closing the case by asking the prosecutor to file charges. It’s their best win-win solution.

    Lawyer up!!!

    But there will be riots if Zimmerman is not convicted. Be sure to cower in place until Holder or Trevon’s family files another multi-million dollar civil case. While in your hidey hole, take your Mossberg 590 and your state’s laws of self defensse. If your internet connect still works during the troubles, research lawyering up.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Exactly. The entire “criminal justice” system is corrupt and adversarial towards the public. Nobody will defend you but you and yours. Absolutely arm yourself because you will absolutely need to defend yourself at some point.

      • Tipper Top

        That’s sad, isn’t it? You know, Karma comes back ten fold. Perhaps this ole World is experiencing the Karma of the errors in society following that terrible time between 1968 and 1971.
        Who know, societal decisions then are affecting us now and not in a good way. I do believe mistakes were made.

        • ziggy zoggy

          I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to but the commie duped hippies absolutely destroyed Western civilization.

          • Tipper Top

            Nope – riots at the Dem Convention in ’68, the free love movement, and the response to our troops coming home in ’71.

            The move away from the lives we once lived as a society toward the secular movement of ‘live in the now’ and ‘the man is holding you down’ and the beginnings of political correctness. That crap.

          • ziggy zoggy

            I was agreeing with you, dude. Still do.

  • FactsRule4Sure

    My answer to your question, David: “What we do know is that a young man who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead. And shouldn’t there be some penalty to pay for that?” is no, not unless it can be proved that Zimmerman attacked Martin.
    You omit many facts about the case that point to consistency in Zimmerman’s testimony about what happened that night. These things seemingly make Martin guilty of the serious crime of battery.
    When attacked, Zimmerman may have feared being knocked unconscious & his gun used against him.
    If you were brutally attacked, you may have shot sooner. I don’t think Zimmerman expected to be attacked. When he was able to, he had every right to shoot his attacker.
    If Martin hadn’t attacked Zimmerman Martin wouldn’t be dead. No one else has to be punished for Martin’s crime, not Zimmerman nor Zimmerman’s clan.
    Perhaps others will think twice about attacking people if they realize they well may be shot dead.
    If that attitude prevailed, things wouldn’t be so lawless in places like Chicago.
    It’s your attitude toward our right to defend our lives with guns & your calling for guards such as Zimmerman not to be armed that increase attacks.

    This is the first time I’ve ever disagreed with you, David.
    God bless you.

    • Black Racism

      unarmed doesnt mean undangerous (as yoiu seem to know, unlike the stupid author)

    • philcic

      You left out places like Detroit, NYC, Camden NJ, Newark NJ, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Greensboro, Birmingham Ala., Baltimore, Memphis Tenn., Washington, New Orleans, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Gary Ind., Jackson Miss., Chattanooga, Tenn. Savanna, Ga……..

      see:

      http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/

  • Carabec

    Superficial injuries! Was Mr. Zimmerman obligated to be close to death before he defended himself? He was held down, his head pounded on concrete and was being smothered to keep him quite. Martin told him, Tonight You Die MFer!!!!!! At what point into the altercation should he have just said, OK, never mind, you win?

    • Black Racism

      I would love to find the medical examiner who said those injuries were insignificant and smash her skull into the pavement a few times (one shot and she wouldnt be able to speak and smile in that glib manner she did)

      • ziggy zoggy

        Exactly. And see if she cries to 911.

    • MannieP

      They were superficial, because George’s skull was not shattered. The next couple of blows could easily have achieved that.

      You don’t have to be at death’s door to defend yourself. Indeed, I recommend you defend yourself long before that.

    • ServosT

      Apparently he should have waited until “superficial” injuries became “serious” injuries but not so long that they became “life threatening” injuries lest they become “fatal” injuries.

      Poor judgement Zim.

  • alericKong

    Outside of the actual trial, I see two offensive aspects of “Justice for Trayvon”

    A substantial portion of Americans have glorified crime for decades in our culture. Murdering people and pumping drugs into a community is seen as authentic. Criminals and those who promote them are an embarrasment to humanity, regardless of any race. Thieves and murderers wear hoods to hid their face and baggy pants to conceal weapons. Now that filth is a part of our culture and it’s racist to not express solidarity with it.

    In most crime ridden neighborhoods, police only respond when there is a substantial felony like murder, armed robbery or sexual assault. The police form a containment perimeter and let nothing out. Criminals run neighborhoods and bully them into desolation because police fail to respond, and scumbag lawyers throw those in prison for kicking out the murderers, crack addicts and prostitutes.

    • Black Racism

      If i had a son, i would justice for all, not just for my kid

    • tagalog

      It wasn’t scumbag lawyers who pumped up the Zimmerman-Martin encounter into a trial; it was the “NO JUSTICE NO PEACE” crowd and the politicos. In this one, the lawyers found no reason to prosecute, along with the police – it’s the culture vultures who blew this one up.

  • JeffWRidge

    First off, we should have the right to defend ourselves anywhere, at any time. The notion that once you leave your home you should lose the right to use lethal force in self-defence is frightening.

    With all due respect, carrying a gun does not change an individual’s beliefs, personality, or attitude towards the law. A gun is not a magical implement that can alter an individual’s willingness to jump into dangerous situations. If a person is given to obeying the law and not forcing confrontations, then having a gun will not change that.

    I have carried a pistol for years now, and it has indeed changed my atitude. While I once worried that I might not be able to fight off an attack by someone who is younger and stronger than I am, or someone who is armed, or a group of thugs, I now have the peace of mind to know that if I am attacked, I can defend myself. So now I have an ease of mind with the knowledge that I can walk the public streets in relative safety.

    As for the case against Zimmerman, while I have refused to paint Martin as a criminal as some have done, I believe in the doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. This applies to Zimmerman no less than it does to Martin.

    The lefty medias’ portrayal of the events of that night, and of Zimmerman and Martin themselves notwithstanding, there is evidence that Zimmerman was in a violent altercation. The photos taken of him immediately following the shooting show that he was bloody and beaten.

    A person being was unarmed does not equate to that person being innocent of any wrongdoing. Many unarmed criminals attack other people if they feel that the other person is easy prey. Martin was significantly larger than Zimmerman. This does not mean that Martin did attack Zimmerman, but it does put context on the whole nonsense about him being unarmed. A large man’s fists can be, and often are, dangerous weapons.

    No, we do not know what happened that night. That is why we have juries and judges and trials.

    • Black Racism

      the news media wants you to think only minorities have rights (and only whites have responsibilities).
      .
      GZ had the responsibility to take the beating thugvon gave (and thugbvon’s parents who left him all alone all weekend without food or supervision – their criminal child neglect shall be ignored)

  • ajweberman

    What about the Blacks who shot Horowitz’s secretary dead in the parking lot and caused him to realize the left did not have the answer? Bet that was an open and shut case. Blacks are fighting for the right to beat up Whites. They are the biggest racists in America – when did the Klan have a million man march. Go back to Ramparts Horowitz

    • Black Racism

      blacks are fighting for the right to beat up whites WITH IMPUNITY.
      .
      you forgoet to mention how the news media is arguing for blacks to have not only the right to beat down whites with impunity, but they want medals and awards and monetary rewards for their brand of racism

  • Adheeb

    Our judicial system requires only ‘reasonable doubt’ to find the man, ‘not guilty’. Only God knows the hearts of men, that’s why someday, will be ‘Judgment Day’.

  • dukas

    I think David makes very good points here. Certainly has me reflecting deeper. Also Zimmerman’s body was on the cement sidewalk but his head was over the edge on the grass, which might justify his thinking his head was being cracked against cement . Elbows, hands, feet feel the cement, head banged against the ground, assumes. Defining the law more specifically as David states, makes sense.

    • James Minze

      Reflect on this:

      You just admitted his head was being banged.. That alone justifies deadly force.. Thanks for clearing that up….

    • Black Racism

      tray tray supporters seem to think tampon was the only one with any rights and george was the only oen with any responsibilities

    • philcic

      The law of self-defense IS defined “specifically”. David Horowitz and YOU just don’t know what it says.

  • tagalog

    What happened on the night that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin is NOT something we will never know. There was at least one eyewitness to the struggle.

    What we will never know is what was going in the mind of Martin. But we know SOME of what he was thinking from what he did, namely escalate a following into an assault.

    Regardless of any racial issue (whether real or potential) brought up by anyone, the fact remains that Zimmerman was on the ground, being pummeled by Martin. Although his injuries were classified as “minor” (NOT superficial), there is no reason to believe that they would have stayed that way had Zimmerman not shot his way out of the situation.

  • Dennis Opihory

    i think some of your lefty illogic is rearing its head in your old age. have you been watching objective analysis of this trial? seriously, aimed the gun away from his chest? how do you know it was even possible. zimmerman did express remorse. listen to the female cop and her testimony when zimmerman found out trayvon was dead. this case wasn’t supposed to go to trial because there is no case here. civil rights groups pressured the governor and the fix was in. if you were watching and listening, the prosecution has basically been proving the defense case to the point where the defense probably won’t have to put on much of a defense. and there are so many irregularities. like the cops taking trayvon’s parents along when they interviewed zimmerman. and let’s not even start with the lies from trayvon’s side. shame on you horowitz. you should have at least had a basic understanding of what was going on at this trial before you wrote anything. shame on you.

    • Tipper Top

      I don’t think it was the governor – I think it was the Mayor of Sanford along with the City Manager. I say this because of where the 911 tape was played, in the Mayor’s office with no police present, for the family and in a group of the family at that. The Mayor and City Manger were responding to the uproar outside and how to make it stop. The only stopping action would be to put Zimmerman behind bars and the only way to do that was to determine he was guilty of killing that poor little boy (media pics).

      • Dennis Opihory

        the governorbecame involved somewhere along the line because he got rid of the a g and put in a special prosecutor. i think the back story on this trial, the political structure bowing to the civil rights groups would be very interesting to know.

        • Tipper Top

          I do hope all of this comes out in the Defense’s case. There is every reason to believe Zimmerman is on trial only because of the media hype. Part of that came out on the stand when the original detective said that they could find no reason to charge Zimmerman before the case was taken away from them by the special investigator.

          • Dennis Opihory

            honestly this is so scary. this is a political witch hunt. and look who the civil rights activists are. jesse jackson, who about the time paula deen was using her slur word was calling new york, hymietown. al sharpton, who helped instigate a riot against those diamond merchants, (his words) in new york where yankel rosenbaum was killed. and sharpton has something in common with rachel jeantel. they both don’t have a problem using the word, cracker.

          • Tipper Top

            You’re darned right it’s scary. Since when do special interest groups get to decide who gets put on trial and who gets a pass based on THEIR political ideology?

          • Dennis Opihory

            since the obama administration came to power. i bet once the truth is told about this administration this case, the irs mess and the collecting phone calls and e-mail will be smallchange compared to what else they are doing.

  • DebRollin

    It has been proven that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when the fatal shot occurred by the sweatshirt bullet hole. There were a series of robberies in the neighborhoods which is a good reason for a neighborhood watch. Many neighborhoods have the coordinated watch, it is everyone’s right to be aware of circumstances and surroundings. I believe this is a tragic event for both Zimmerman and Martin and their families, but I do think this case has been exploited to enhance racism and to cause riots…of course the Left always takes advantage of a crisis.

    • The March Hare

      The left has been trying to start a race war for decades. Back in the 30s they were trying to use the case of the Scottsboro boys to get it started. The case involved nine black teenage boys wrongfully accused of rape in Alabama in 1931. They have always used every thing they can to do it to divide the country and destabilize it. This is just another opportunity for them to accomplish it.

      • DebRollin

        Yes, and the great divide has been made worse by Obama and Co.

  • cathy

    What is wrong with this picture? If the background of one is relevant … it would go without saying that the background of both Martin and Zimmerman would be relevant. Nevertheless … there appears to be a judicial double standard regarding the submission of evidence?

    GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

    Judge allows George Zimmerman school records into evidence
    July 3, 2013

    The prosecution in the George Zimmerman murder case introduced his school and medical records into evidence Wednesday, a move aimed at showing that the neighborhood watch volunteer was familiar with self-defense law and had hopes of a career in law enforcement. …

    Judge Debra S. Nelson on Wednesday ruled in favor of a prosecution motion to admit Zimmerman’s school records, his job application to a Virginia police agency and his request to the Sanford police to go on a ride-along with officers.

    The defense had argued that the records were irrelevant to what happened on the rainy night when Zimmerman and Martin had their clash.

    The prosecution is hoping the records and applications will support the theory that Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who became increasingly frustrated by incidents of crime in his gated community. When Zimmerman saw Martin, the prosecution maintains, the neighborhood watch volunteer profiled the teenager, followed him and then had a confrontation that led to Martin being shot to death.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-murder-school-records-20130703,0,7831562.story

    TRAYVON MARTIN

    Suspension Permitted In Zimmerman Trial
    5:25 pm, May 28th, 2013

    During a pre-trial hearing Tuesday afternoon, a Florida judge ruled that George Zimmerman’s defense team cannot use the late Trayvon Martin’s alleged prior marijuana use, school suspension, past fighting, personal text messages or pictures during its opening statement in next month’s high-profile second-degree murder trial.

    This comes nearly a week after Zimmerman’s lawyer Mark O’Mara made the cable news rounds, showing off new photographs taken from Martin’s cellphone, including a shot of a marijuana plant and an unidentified hand holding a gun:

    O’Mara had also claimed his team had obtained text messages in which Martin talks about organized fighting. “He got mo hits cause in da 1st round. He had me on da ground nd I couldn’t do ntn,” reads one text from November 2011.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/judge-rules-whether-trayvons-past-drug-use-and-school-suspension-permitted-in-zimmerman-trial/

    • Tipper Top

      Amen to that – and NOT in a biblical sense, just that you’re completely right – LOL

  • cathy

    Could it be that …

    1. Trayvon did fear that the person who was following him was a threat and initiated the attack.
    2. George shot Trayvon defending himself from the attack that he did not anticipate.

    Case Closed!!

    • James Minze

      Not guilty….Case closed

    • Black Racism

      it could be that the kid was raised like a thug and died like a thug (thugs come in all colors by the way)

  • Shane

    Yes, Zimmerman lied, but that does not mean that he killed Marting out of self-defense. SO far, there is not enough evidence to convict him.

    • Black Racism

      oh sure, the martin fulton scheme team has told nothing but lies for over year, but they harbor the kind of racism, the media never questions, the kind directed at whites

  • http://www.facebook.com/kate.curry.3950 Kate Curry

    A reasonable, honest, objective article. Too bad the trial, and events leading up to it, are not as reasonable, honest and objective.

    • philcic

      This article is not objective at all. If you don’t know the facts and the law, then what the hell are you talking about?

  • 2maxpower

    it is an open and shut case. the only crime was that Zimmerman was charged. get your head out of your A$$.

    this is pandering to the thugs. you will not win over progressives with pandering Mr. Horowitz.

    you sir are living in a fantasy. stand your ground has nothing to do with this case. IT WAS PURE SELF DEFENSE.

    you are doing a disservice to yourself and frontpagemagazine with this essay.

  • Eunomia2013

    This case is easy to decide if you are real Democrat.

    Zimmerman is a white Hispanic. The only operative word is white. All white people are racists and all racists hate blacks which means Zimmerman hated Trayvon which means Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon which means Zimmerman killed Trayvon.

    The fact that Trayvon was a pothead, thief and a vandal who liked to fight and “make people bleed” is irrelevant. He’s black and Zimmerman is white so it’s a racist hate crime and whitey is always guilty.

    Simple.

  • augustoperez

    Because when you are getting your head slammed into the sidewalk while an assailant sits on yur chest you have time and clarity to decide that you can get away with shooting them… This dolt’s opinion is just a bunch of words that ignore the facts.

  • dizzyizzy

    I am proud of my friend David Horowitz for writing this piece and expressing his reservations. That one comment suggested that he was a closet lib or a RINO is bizarre. Agreeing to disagree is the very heart and soul of the First Amendment, as I wrote yesterday: http://clarespark.com/2013/07/04/independence-and-the-marketplace-of-ideas/. “Independence and the marketplace of ideas.”

    • philcic

      It’s one thing to give your opinion. It’s another thing to be uninformed and give your opinion. Does Mr. Horowitz really think he’s informed about the facts and the law of self-defense in the state of Florida?

      • dizzyizzy

        I reread DH’s essay. It was not about the legalities of the case as much as it was a critique of the polarizing culture wars. He objected to the lack of remorse (empathy) shown by GZ during his interview with Hannity. Many of the comments have missed the most forceful argument in DH’s essay.

        • bluffcreek1967

          Nope. Mr. Horowitz did more than merely critique the polarizing culture wars surrounding this incident. He made statements in his essay that showed he lacked a command of the facts related to this case – and this is why so many readers have objected to what he wrote.

          Sorry, there was no truly forceful or deeply convincing arguments in David’s article – just opinion based on conjecture and a poor understanding of the surrounding facts. I urge you re-read the in-depth and illuminating comments from several of our readers.

          Finally, it means absolutely nothing in relation to the veracity of this case whether GZ felt remorse or not. It appears he did based on what he said to the officers at the scene. But quite frankly, it doesn’t bother me in the least if he had no empathy. Think about it: Trayvon was trying to bash his head open, and GZ was forced to shoot him out of fear for his life. Oh well. Too bad. At this point, GZ is probably so damn tired of this entire charade that he probably doesn’t care about much except just surviving this thing and getting past it. Again, David’s arguments fall short of being anything even close to ‘forceful.’

          • dizzyizzy

            No, the critique of the culture wars was his opener. There was a critique of whiteness studies that create all whites as oppressors of black victims. This “melodrama” is what framed the essay and all else follows from that. The fact that should leap out for all of us is that a young black male is dead. DH felt that very deeply, and the lack of remorse on GZ’s part obviously affected him. “God’s plan” as determining TM’s fate? Give me a break. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? DH is not a lawyer, and neither am I. The legal system will determine whether the charge of murder in the second degree has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But that was not what DH was writing about. It seems to me that the negative comments fail to comprehend DH’s chief message. Going all legalistic (as the comments have done) may be a defense against the appalling fact that a young black man from an intact black family is dead.
            In any case, calling DH a liberal, a RINO, or a neocon rather gives the game away.

          • bluffcreek1967

            Again, you’ve missed the point. I was summarizing your comments as opposed to engaging into every nuance to or even of DH’s post. I read it, as others have, and found it to be weak.

            “Going all legalistic” is not some “defense against the appalling fact that a young black man from an intact black family is dead,” but pertinent observations about the case and why the MSM and liberals have got it wrong. The case is tragic, no doubt, but you’re emotionally driving this in ways that cloud your thinking. A young black man from an intact black family died (what else is new?), but who’s fault is that? Saint Trayvon made his own deadly and ‘appalling’ choice in this matter, and the ultimate consequences that occurred lie with him.

            One doesn’t have to be a lawyer or possess legal training to make relevant observations of this case.

            Also, you’ve failed to rebut the point that GZ’s lack of empathy on the Hannity show is completely irrelevant. His statement about ‘God’s plan’ has nothing to do with his innocence of lack thereof. Of all the things to emphasize in this case, myself and many others on this site found it odd indeed that this was even important to DH since, in the overall scheme of things, it has little relevance.

          • dizzyizzy

            DH was writing from his heart and his head as a conservative. He was not writing as a lawyer, nor is my defense of his piece about the merits of the case. That one person described him negatively as a neocon suggests to me that some conservatives will never accept a former leftist into their ranks.
            The “God’s plan” remark is typical of some conservatives, while others emphasize personal responsibility for our actions. I have made my case, and will not engage in further interactions.

          • bluffcreek1967

            Any remark about “God’s plan” from GZ or anyone else is not some effort to evade personal responsibility. It’s simply to place all that occurs under the sovereign plan and control of the Almighty. Let’s not make this more complicated than it needs to be.

            DH may indeed have been “writing from his heart and his head” in his article, but a few of his statements showed a real lack of knowledge about the facts surrounding this case. This is why his readers took him to task. It became apparent, indeed, in your comments that your defense of his piece wasn’t about “the merits of the case.” And that’s the whole problem: too many people are stating things that aren’t based on the merits of what actually occurred.

            As I mentioned before, one doesn’t need to be a lawyer to understand the merits or lack of merits in this case. In other words, claiming ‘I’m not a lawyer’ is no excuse for not knowing the details and being able to ferret out where the truth lies.

            Again, DH (yourself included) needs to bring less emotional rhetoric to this highly controversial court case. There are enough doing that, but very little of it is actually helpful or informative.

  • Lee

    “Given that the young man was unarmed and that he inflicted very superficial injuries on his adversary during their scuffle, Zimmerman’s claim that he was in fear for his life has to be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least.”
    — Lay on your back on the sidewalk while a 6-foot 2-inch strong young man sits on your chest and alternately punches you and grabs your head and smashes it against the pavement. You’re about to pass out. Would you use a firearm against him? No? That’s a big grain of salt… “to say the least”.

  • ziggy zoggy

    wtf. WTF! Are you $hitting us, Horowitz?
    “Is the Zimmerman case really open and shut?” It is irrefutably

    • Kimmie Smith

      You made some very excellent points!

      • ziggy zoggy

        =D

    • Tipper Top

      Couple of things that support your belief that Horowitz is wrong:

      1) Listen to the testimony – at first she said ‘creepy white’ and when interrupted Rachel comes back with ‘creepy assed cracker’ umm humm

      2) Arizona watermelon drink and skittles are components of the drink called ‘Purple Lean’ and ‘DMX’ – google them and then google Trayvon’s tweets regarding needing to find a new sources for codeine which is also a component of ‘Lean and DMX’.

      3) Wonder to yourself why the prosecution though the judge has insured that the toxicology report will NOT be a part of this trial when, as a rule, toxicology reports and autopsy reports are usually a given in a trial.

      4) One of the lumps/bumps on GZ’s head was said to be a ‘defect’ in GZ’s skull and not an injury. The actual placement of that defect would be evident now on GZ’s head but isn’t and the jury can see that, with or without GZ now having hair on his head.

      5) Trayvon is not seen for a good two minutes after running. Had Trayvon simply run home within that two minutes – some 400 feet from where he was last seen to his father’s girlfriend’s townhouse – he’d be alive today. Instead, as one of the witnesses said, she heard running from left to right – TRAYVON – running toward the T which means Trayvon came back to hide in the shadows and jump GZ that night.

      • ziggy zoggy

        Good points. We both know who was guilty that night. Horowitz is a good man but he needs to pull his head out on this one.

  • nimbii

    I have not been following but the defense should have life-sized fathead cutouts of Martin and Zimmerman for the court to see as compartives. The media shots we have of Martin show him as a child, not as a 17 year old. This may help clarify the threat that Zimmerman alleged to have felt.

  • Daniel Vincent Kelley

    Zimmerman isn’t the only surviving witness you fucking moron. Selma Mora was EYE WITNESS to Trayvon’s MURDER. She saw Trayvon take his last breaths. AFTER Zimmercunt shot him through the chest, Zimmercunt mounted Trayvon’s back and crushed the life out of him. That’s the word from an EYEWITNESS, that she saw Trayvon’s legs jiggling around on bottom. Trayvon stopped moving, Zimmercunt got up and started pacing. She then saw that Trayvon was on his stomach. Zimmercunt shot Trayvon through his chest, then mounted his back and crushed the life out of him. That’s premeditated murder.

    • Kimmie Smith

      Repeat your same drivel a few more times….

  • William James Ward

    I see the screening by the bushes in the apartment complex and
    Martin probably was concealed there which gives Zimmerman
    truthfulness in that Martin had the ability to be hidden. Martin
    was in the process of assault on Zimmerman and having your
    head smashed into concrete could easily mean you will be
    defenseless with approaching unconsciousness or dead from
    trauma. Zimmerman believed his weapon would fall into
    Martins hands and considering Martins conduct Zimmerman
    had a reasonable argument in being fearful of his life, Martin
    could easily have shot Zimmerman once the weapon was his.
    Racial strife in and area where whites feel to be the victims of
    black criminals and have watchmen to alert police is a creative
    place for fear to get out of control. Martin would be aware that
    he was under scrutiny and if innocent or guilty he would react
    with what would support his ideas of being a free man.
    Hefting the weight of hostility generated against blacks for what
    some do was more than at his age would be expected to be
    dealt with in a mature way. Martin should have not approached
    Zimmerman and if Zimmerman was leaving and this is true the
    onus is on Martin. No witness is available to disprove Zimmermans
    assertions, heresay should not convict.

    There is to much doubt in this case to blame Zimmerman conclusively
    of more than bad judgment and fear. Speculating within wide areas
    of social misadventure and criminal motivations may sway the public
    but the jury must look to facts and see if there is reasonable doubt and
    reasonable doubt is choking the prosecution’s case. We will be left
    with two certainties, a death that should not have happened and
    the trial that followed……………………..William

    • The March Hare

      And a third certainty, if found not guilty, the riots that will be sure to follow.

      • William James Ward

        That might just be the results and a bitter pill that will be.
        Riotous people may wish to do as they want but it depends
        on the Governor of Florida and the Police, not everyone
        is afraid to stand against anarchy. My advice to those who
        think Martin was done wrong is to rethink and evaluate the
        trial record and try to adjust to the facts not feelings out
        of control……………………William

  • Buddyz

    I think your point is well taken but for reasons that differ from yours. What we know:

    Z followed M
    Z or M confronted the other and a fight ensued
    Z was beaten badly and was on the bottom taking punches with his head hitting the cement or being banged into the cement. (see his injuries, the wet grass, the grass stains on M’s knees, the bruises on M’s hand, the testimony that the gun touched the clothing but not the chest showing his clothing by gravity was hanging down as M was on top)
    Z killed M

    It is possible that Z controlled the situation and didn’t have to kill M but did so because he got beat up.

    Despite on the variables you don’t send a man to prison for 30 years on those facts.

  • Not_in_Denial

    As a Floridian and someone who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon and familiar with the use of deadly force, I find this article aggravating at least. Zimmerman was correctly treated as someone who acted in self defense by the police to begin with, and questioned and released. The transparent motive behind charging Zimmerman in the first place and appointing a ‘special prosecutor’ was due to pressure on the politicians in Florida by race baiters. The evidence so far follows Zimmerman’s claims, but now his life has been totally wrecked, all over acting in his own self defense. Yes I believe Zimmerman isn’t guilty of murder or manslaughter, and there are too many ulterior motives at work now. The prosecutor wants a win, Martin’s family wants money and has already proven that by taking an ‘undisclosed’ settlement from the HOA and stated to the media that they are going to sue Zimmerman after the trial. This is a Class A screwup that is ruining someone’s life who doesn’t deserve it.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Exactly. Zimmerman is a human being who used to have a life.

      • Tipper Top

        One only has to look at Zimmerman to see that his life has changed substantially. His body tells the story of the toll this has taken on him. No doubt about that.

  • Not_in_Denial

    Oh, and remember this, JUSTICE has NOTHING to do with this! Lawyers and Prosecutors don’t give a dam* who is guilty, they want to WIN! The proof of that is the emphasis by them as a group on their ‘statistics’ of wins and losses. They don’t care if an innocent person rots in jail.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Exactly. Prosecutors and judges persecute any person they think they can, even if they know the person is innocent. They are the worst terrorists of all and Americans need to wake the f*** up.

  • onecornpone

    I agree with much of your “take” on this case, David.

    However I have few simple questions for you.

    WHAT do we teach our young children to do if a stranger approaches attempting to engage them? The answer is RUN!

    So tell me, at what age does that advice no longer apply? At what age is it beneath the dignity of a person to remove themselves from harassment or danger?

    After observing Zimmerman waddle around, do you believe he would have chased Martin, if the young man had run away.

    Do you believe that Zimmerman would have shot Martin in the back?

    If not, do you think there is a chance in Hell that Zimmerman could have overtaken Martin before he reached the safety of his home?

    As you said, we’ll never know what really happened that fateful night, but we do know what Martin’s “tribe” is threatening to do to all of American civil society, IF their idea of justice is not forthcoming.

  • Rostis

    So strange, but to me the article sounds like it was written not for the FPM, but for “Ramparts”… Rostislav, Saint-Petersburg, Russia.

  • Robert_Fl

    Lost your mind, David? Unarmed 17 year old with no criminal record? Really? No criminal record? This case has no relation to the stand your ground law…it is about basic self defense. Home invasions are covered by the castle doctrine. It appears that you have formed an opinion based on very little knowledge. Very disappointing article.

    “Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry.”…So you must give up your rights as a citizen to be a part of neighborhood watch? How ridiculous. Maybe you didn’t stray as far from your leftist roots as you think, David.

  • Daniel Vincent Kelley

    Zimmerman isn’t the only surviving witness you fucking moron. Selma Mora
    was EYE WITNESS to Trayvon’s MURDER. She saw Trayvon take his last
    breaths. AFTER Zimmercunt shot him through the chest, Zimmercunt mounted
    Trayvon’s back and crushed the life out of him. That’s the word from an
    EYEWITNESS, that she saw Trayvon’s legs jiggling around on bottom.
    Trayvon stopped moving, Zimmercunt got up and started pacing. She then
    saw that Trayvon was on his stomach. Zimmercunt shot Trayvon through his
    chest, then mounted his back and crushed the life out of him. That’s
    premeditated murder.
    Trying to force this injustice on the community, vying for Zimmerbitch, doesn’t bolster the case for stand your ground. It doesn’t benefit self defense rights to set loose vicious murderers with guns. If Zimmercunt is set free, if he isn’t put to justice for his vicious murder, THAT will DAMAGE “stand your ground laws” and self defense with firearms in general. If these “laws” stand in the way of justice being imposed on vicious murderers, can they be allowed to stand as law? If you’re pro gun rights and pro self defense rights, then you HAVE TO BE against murderers. If you’re pro-murderer, giving aid to a vicious murderer by spouting propaganda nonsense while he’s already been certified guilty by EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY… then you deserve to be stripped of your self defense rights. If you didn’t watch the testimony of the 1 woman who watched Trayvon breath his last breaths, under George Zimmerman, then you’re not qualified to discuss this matter asserting your pathetic “beliefs” about whether George Zimmerman is a murderer or not. OBVIOUSLY he’s a murderer.

    • Juan Motie

      Obviously you are confused and can not deal with real FACTS! By the way, was that the same woman who “heard” three gun shots? Who “saw” Zimmerman shoot your hero poor innocent little travon in the back? That woman? The woman whom the defense shredded and made it look as if she was mentally defective? Was that the woman you are quoting?

    • Kimmie Smith

      Just curious, I bet you’re pro-abortion?

      • ziggy zoggy

        Pro infanticide and anti war. (But only anti-American war) No doubt about it. And anti-death penalty for murderers.
        Lefties are so predictable.

    • ziggy zoggy

      You are obviously insane. No wonder you are a racist lefty.

  • Daniel Vincent Kelley

    Zimmerman isn’t the only surviving witness you fucking moron. Selma Mora
    was EYE WITNESS to Trayvon’s MURDER. She saw Trayvon take his last
    breaths. AFTER Zimmercunt shot him through the chest, Zimmercunt mounted
    Trayvon’s back and crushed the life out of him. That’s the word from an
    EYEWITNESS, that she saw Trayvon’s legs jiggling around on bottom.
    Trayvon stopped moving, Zimmercunt got up and started pacing. She then
    saw that Trayvon was on his stomach. Zimmercunt shot Trayvon through his
    chest, then mounted his back and crushed the life out of him. That’s
    premeditated murder.

    • Juan Motie

      Repetition of your muddled post will not make it true. Poor innocent little travon was not going to survive the gunshot – try reading and understanding the coroner’s report. I know, FACTS are so confusing for your pathetic little mind …

    • ziggy zoggy

      Danielle Onecent Smelly,
      Your comment is premeditated stupidity.

  • Juan Motie

    I find it odd that Zimmerman would do the right thing by immediately calling the police, telling them his name and location, then hang up after being told the police were on the way and KNOWING the police could arrive at any second proceed to “stalk” the person he saw and kill him for no reason other than the pure pleasure of committing the act. If Zimmerman was so consumed by rage and animus towards this stranger, why bother calling the police at all? Why wouldn’t Zimmerman have just “stalker” poor innocent little travon, killed him and slipped off into the night? After all, it was dark, the rain was keeping folks inside, it would have been the perfect circumstance for murder! As the testimony of the nearby residents has unfolded in court, nobody knew who was who until the event was over. Zimmerman could have walked away and the murder would probably remain unsolved to this day.

    But the inconvenient fact for those of the poor innocent little travon fan club is Zimmerman DID call the police. Only a lunkheaded illiberal could possibly believe Zimmerman would have pursued and murdered knowing the police would be there any time.

    • Kimmie Smith

      My exact thoughts from the beginning of all this!

  • Doug

    1) Stand Your Ground is irrelevant to this case. This is a traditional self defense case.

    2) The question is not whether there are holes in Zimmerman’s story, or whether Zimmerman is innocent, but whether the prosecution has proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Since self defense is at issue here, that means the prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman either was not in fear of serious bodily injury or that even if he was, that fear was unreasonable. The only eyewitness to the fight, the only person who testified that he saw punches being thrown, testified that Martin was on top beating on Zimmerman “ground + pound” MMA style. That testimony is consistent with the physical injuries incurred by Zimmerman (broken nose, head lacerations and contusions) and by Martin (gunshot wound to the chest, abrasions on knuckles). Even if you doubt Martin’s story in all particulars, I do not understand how any honest person could conclude in the light of this evidence that the State has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

    • cjkcjk

      Just for your information which I recently came across, a picture of Trayvon’s body right after the incident clearly shows only his pant legs wet and his fist still clenched. Another clear indication pointing in the direction that he was straddling Zimmerman while beating him.

      • Tipper Top

        Interesting that the Prosecution did NOT bring up the pants or the shoes. In fact, there is a huge problem in that Dr. Bao said that the clothing left the autopsy suite in paper bags and yet that same clothing shows up in the crime lab in red plastic bio-hazard bags.

        Further, Trayvon’s hands were neither bagged at the scene which would ensure that there was not trace move to the wet hooded sweat shirt inside the body bag, nor were his hands photographed in the autopsy suite. Even worse, they say there was no blood on Trayvon’s hands at all. Including Trayvon’s own blood, yet Trayvon is found at the scene with his hands under his body, apparently clutching his chest where he was shot, which was bleeding.

        There has been contamination of the evidence and one must wonder what that contamination is for. Was it to prove something against Zimmerman? Was it manipulated between the autopsy suite and the crime lab? It must have been if it leaves in brown paper and shows up in red plastic, don’t you think? Rational thought would say yes.

  • onecornpone

    You have made some valid points David, however I have a few questions for you.

    WHAT do we teach or young children to do if a stranger approaches, attempting to engage them? The answer is RUN!

    So tell me, at what age does that advice no longer apply? At what age is it beneath the dignity of a person to remove themselves from harassment or danger?

    After observing Zimmerman waddle around, do you believe he would have pursued Martin, if the young man had run away?

    Do you believe Zimmerman would have shot Martin in the back?

    If not, do you think there is a chance that Zimmerman could have overtaken Martin before he reached the safety of his home?

    We’ll never hear Martin’s reasoning for his actions that night, however we do know how he presented himself on social media et.c.

    We also know what Martin’s tribe has and is threatening to do to all of American civil society IF their expectation of justice is not met.

    Even though I personally find Zimmerman off putting, the bounty announced on his head soon after the incident, and the lack of strong, swift law-enforcement reaction, or denouncement by black community leadership to those who publicly announced the bounty, is a harbinger of things to come.

    In this case a serious POTUS would have stepped up to admonish his acolytes that polarization of this sort is not what America is about.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Zimbabwe, South Africa and now America. worst of all is that we are encouraging it. I am so SICK of people telling me that I am a racist criminal based on the color of my skin.

      • onecornpone

        Our government was so deeply invested in reversing apartheid in So Africa that the systematic slaughter that transpired in the aftermath of its discontinuance was totally ignored by our Dept of State and our media.

        Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of southern Africa, a net exporting nation of ag products, but that reversed quickly without the Afrikaners expertise. Very similar to the Kulaks, the prosperous ag producer class of Russia who were exterminated in 1917 era revolutionary Russia, because the proletariat assumed that anyone can raise food efficiently. The starvation that followed was epic.

        In Africa, industrious whites who had been born and raised there with many generations of history, had no choice but to walk away from their assets, practically penniless, or risk surviving the marauding machete squads. The government proudly redistributed their property its cronies.

        …SICK of people telling me that I am a racist criminal…

        As Limbaugh predicted, Clown Prince Alinsky has set race relations back fifty years. Civil society can break down very quickly.

        • ziggy zoggy

          Exactly. I have an Australian friend whose grandparents were born and raised in Rhodesia. I don’t even know if they’re alive anymore. I haven’t had the guts to ask him.

          I don’t think American society is civil in any way. Not anymore. I don’t think we’re a Zimbabwe but Southern California is now a part of Mexico and most of the coastal states are European Union style failures. I honestly believe that America is doomed.

  • http://palestinename.com Beth

    Mr. Horowitz, I could not agree more with your words.

    For the mother of Trayvon (from a mom)

    I can not imagine what it would be like to lose a child. And I hope and pray that I never have to endure that kind of pain. I don’t know what happened – I wasn’t there – I would not want to be a juror on this case. I hope that you can realize that there is reason for everything that happens in our lives. One thing that you will know in a future life – is one of the greatest sufferings that a human can endure. Maybe there are plans for you to help others who have to endure the same pain – in the future of another world. (just my thoughts)

    • James Minze

      Lots of emotion and of no use whatsoever in the case..

    • Juan Motie

      Well, we already know she “helped” herself to a million dollar plus settlement from the Retreat at Twin Lakes HOA! We also know she has “helped” herself to a huge income from trademarked sales of poor innocent little travon paraphernalia! Strange that the first thing she thought of was how rich she could become by exploiting her son’s death.

  • Jeffrey P. Rush

    Stand your ground is not the primary application here, despite what the mainstream (and now Mr. Horowitz) says. Indeed stand your ground is not in play here, pure and simple self defense.

    If Mr. Zimmerman reasonably believed he was in danger, he had the right to self defense, even deadly force. As to whether he knew about the Stand Your Ground law is unclear. Just because it was spoken about in a class he took does not mean he understood it.

    Mr. Martin, was not the innocent he has been portrayed. A gangster and criminal forced to leave Miami for Sanford (well maybe not forced per se, but clearly his presence in Miami was questionable). His search for Skittles, it’s been shown in other places might have been a quest for drugs, rather than just candy.

    Mr. Zimmerman may not have been right in his belief, however they are his belief(s) and thus unless the prosecution can demonstrate otherwise, he walks (or should walk. The Rodney King type threats may influence the jury.).

  • midnighteye

    When you are already lying on the ground with someone kneeling on you, does one have any choice about standing ones ground?

  • Molly22

    When I was a kid, if I had been skulking around in the rain at night up against houses that I didn’t live in and an adult had approached me, I would have understood that my behavior was suspicious to a reasonable person. I certainly would not have become surly if approached. It’s not like Trayvon was just walking down the sidewalk.

    If Zimmerman is telling the truth, Trayvon was violently assaulting him. That’s a crime, David. As for this bit of genius: “Wouldn’t I have wished that I had been more careful with my firearm and aimed it away from his chest?” So that a stray bullet could have, say, killed or injured some random person in their home? That’s being “more careful”? Truly bizarre statement.

  • Tasmaniac

    I have been a long-standing follower of David Horowitz. That has ended today.

    • T.A.

      Really, Tasmaniac, is it so difficult to respectfully disagree?

      • Tasmaniac

        Yes. It is difficult.

  • Molly22

    “The Stand Your Ground Law should be rewritten to apply only to home invasions since then it is clear that the intruder is the aggressor and the response is self-defense.” This is madness. It’s not clear who the aggressor is in a carjacking? A rape? A mall shooting? I have always greatly respected Mr. Horowitz, but his thinking in this piece is squishy to say the least.

  • Kimmie Smith

    What kind of crap bias is this article? Absurd!!

  • James Keir Baughman

    For such an outstanding American, David, I am stunned at how frighteningly wrong you seem to me on every issue here. Disarm us all in the face of such a violent personal attack? The owners have no right to defend their property with a recent history of about 30 home invasions? No right to defend oneself against murder? Such a sudden vicious personal attack, with clear physical evidence of it, is a felony. It’s called Assault or Attempted Murder. Obviously, our Aetheist Communist minorities are driving a trial in which Law Enforcement had clear evidence not even to charge, much less indict? It would help me to understand what’s happened to your thinking on this one old friend.

  • Moliminous

    There’s only one thing at stake here and that’s justice. It is the role of the courts (let alone government in its entirety) to provide justice, not compassion, political machinations, multi-cultural conjectures, or wishful thinking… it’s justice. As such, the courts must begin with and rely on fundamental principles only. There is a presumed innocence before the law regardless of what racist presidents and other race-baiters might propose or sermonize. That presumption has to be protected throughout the process until it is confronted with facts that might say otherwise. There can be no affirmative action either way.

    The “people” have as yet to be given all the facts for the media has protected us from the truths in this case. A perfect example is the ubiquitous photographs of the victim as a young teen “just on the way home from the store.” There’s a much larger truth here that hasn’t included an over six-footer, tattooed with the sign of his times, recently arrested for assault, in possession of drug paraphernalia, burglary tools and property not his own. These are just as much the facts in the case as is Zimerman’s race. You see, it’s not white on black, black on white or any simple racial demonization.

    The question for this court is a simple one: was it self-defense and, therefore, justifiable or not?

    To cloud the judgment over fear of a reaction to any decision is to remove the blindfold of justice and color justice with fear and threats. Those who threaten reprisals have already had their justice and they’ve abused it. It is their choice and there is a consequence.

    “The empty vessel makes the greatest sound”
    —William Shakespeare

  • Kimmie Smith

    Point the gun in the air instead of at the attacker, that’ll show them what you can do while they’re on top of you beating you senseless and telling you you’re gonna die, they’re sure to stop beating you and say “okay, I’ll stop.”

  • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

    David, I usually respect your opinions but:
    “Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry. If you are carrying a weapon it changes your attitude and can well lead you into dangerous situations (such as following someone who doesn’t want to be followed) that you would otherwise avoid. And worse it can lead you to take the life of someone who whatever he did, did not deserve to die.”

    This is a leftist argument against the 2nd amendment: Guns dont kill people, people who happen to have a gun handy do?????

    ANd it wasnt political conservatives that originally concluded Zimmerman innocent, it was the police, who had all the evidence at hand who didnt press charges originally because they had concluded that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. This case has NOTHING to do with Stand Your Ground, that is a strawman argument. Zimmerman was a captive audience on his back being pummelled. Self-preservation against imminent threat demands action when retreat is impossible.

    Also, I can follow someone all I want especially if they themselves are trespassing on private property repeatedly in my neighborhood and if I am assaulted for that, no matter how paranoid the person was, they are WRONG. They have committed ASSAULT.

    Jenteal, in three different versions always was constant about one thing, Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. Other wintesses who saw the event say that Trayvon was the agressor pinning, Zimmerman and beating him, thus shutting off any form of retreat. When Trayvon had the upper hand on Zimmerman, did he retreat? No. If Zimmerman didn’t have that gun, would Zimmerman be the corpse today? Yes.

    If I follow you and you confront, assault, pin, and threaten me, you are WRONG, you have committed CRIMES, and you have uneccessarily violated my right to life and liberty and you may get what you deserve.

    Beyond any reasonable doubt the prosecution has proven:
    Trayvon Martin racially profiled the shorter Zimmerman
    Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman
    Trayvon Martin was the agressor and the escalator of the beatdown (that wasn’t a fight)
    Trayvon Martin shut off any retreat Zimmerman had, that didnt include violence. (George Zimmerman is not a mole and cannot burrow into the earth.)

    But in your wisdom, you say conservatives jumped to conclusions proof of which is Zimmerman had bail money????

    • cjkcjk

      Bravo!

  • David

    We can argue until we’re blue in the face about what happened, but to sum it up simply: “Dead men tell no tales.”. That’s why I think Zimmerman will be found Not Guilty. The prosecution has no case b/c Trayvon Martin is dead.

    • ConradCA

      We can determine what happened from the evidence presented in the trial so far. The lead investigator summarized it best when he said that Zimmerman’s statement was supported by the evidence in every significant respect. Zimmerman’s state of mind was supported by his response to the officer’s claim that their was video of the event. Zimmerman responded “Thank God! I hoped that their was.”.

      • David

        It does appear that Zimmerman’s story is most likely true.

  • cjkcjk

    Such a depressing article!!!!!! Why throw a sop to those who would just a soon herd us all into the gas chambers; I mean that in all seriousness?
    Anybody with even the tiniest of brains, but a full serving of integrity knows damn well that Martin was a thug who got what he had coming. Pleeeeeeese spare me the horsesh*t.
    All the facts and neutral testimony points exclusively to Zimmermans innocence.
    The real kicker to this craven article however is the despicable admonition to further erode the God given rights to we the people.
    DESPICABLE.
    Very disappointed with you Mr. Horowitz

  • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

    “What we do know is that a young man who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead. And shouldn’t there be some penalty to pay for that?”
    He WAS armed with his fists and COMMITTED THE CRIMES of assault, battery, false imprisonment and attempted murder. Have you been paying ANY attention.

  • Lysander Spooner

    I don’t think it’s a crime for a neighborhood watch person to follow a suspicious individual in order to watch him. After thoroughly researching Zimmerman’s commitment to protecting property and Trayvon Martin’s embrace of thug life, Horowitz should rewrite this piece while someone is sitting on his chest slamming his head into the ground.

  • CruisingTroll

    Sadly, it appears that Horowitz is experiencing a mild reversion to his leftist past. Advocating changing X (Stand Your Ground laws) because of Incident Y, when X is unrelated to Y, is a typical lefty tactic.

    The defense has NOT ARGUED Stand Your Ground, because Zimmerman had NO OPTION to retreat.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Great screen name, dude. 3:)

  • Juan Motie

    Here is one more question: We keep hearing that poor innocent little travon was an “unarmed 17 year old” who had no idea Zimmerman had a gun. Okay, by the same token, how was it that Zimmerman magically “knew” poor innocent little travon was unarmed? Why would Zimmerman “stalk and confront” a stranger in the dark when he could never be sure that stranger would be armed and willing to kill? Wouldn’t Zimmerman have been somewhat cautious about approaching and “confronting” a stranger he knew nothing about? Isn’t this why Zimmerman called the police FIRST!

  • YoshiNakamura

    Why “Trayvon” and “Zimmerman”? Why not “Martin” and “George”? Or “Martin” and “Zimmerman”? Or “Trayvon” and George”?

    • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

      Trayvon and Zimmerman have instance recognition factor that Martin and George dont.

  • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

    If the police had arrived seconds earlier the crimeless, guiltless, on-a skittle-run, Trayvon Martin could have been charged with aggravated assault, battery, false imprisonment, terroristic threats and attempted murder.
    But Zimmerman is in the wrong here because he should have just let it play out.

  • cathy

    I am still in the Twilight Zone in regards to David Horowitz’ mindset regarding this issue. I didn’t see it coming. However … another Conservative whose words for the most part reflects my thoughts on the issues also holds a similar viewpoint to Horowitz … a viewpoint that gives the benefit of the doubt to Trayvon Martin.

    Allen West On Trayvon Martin Case: ‘This Is An Outrage’
    THURSDAY MARCH 22, 2012

    Rep. Allen West (R-FL), a high-profile conservative and one of two African-American Republicans currently serving in Congress, posted a statement early Thursday evening on Facebook, lambasting the local authorities in the handling of the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

    Notably, West said that the shooter George Zimmerman “should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit.”

    The full statement: ….

    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/allen-west-on-trayvon-martin-case-this-is

    • ziggy zoggy

      Conservative, my @$$.

    • hippiepooter

      These were comments Lt Col West made over a year ago. Anything since?

  • glennd1

    What an absurd article at this stage of the game. The facts are, Horowitz, that Zimmerman’s account of being pummeled on the ground by Martin has been corroborated by a very credible witness. The 911 tapes of the woman who called, where the screaming is going on corroborate Zimmerman was screaming. You also call Zimmerman’s injuries “very superficial” – hmmm, smashed nose and cut on head from bashing into sidewalk? That is not superficial.

    Of course, Zimmerman’s prevarications are far fewer than those the state and its trumped up witnesses have engaged in, but you don’t know that. You also seem to think we are all on Zimmerman’s side – no, many of us think Zimmerman is innocent of murder but want to see a fair trial about it. And when we find out there is absolutely not a shred of evidence that supports the Martin case and that the DOJ and other civil rights activists forced the case to be brought via threats, yeah, we then start seeing this through a racial lens. Put another way, I bet there isn’t a conservative on this site who would want Zimmerman to get away with murder – we just want him to have the right to defend himself, with deadly force if necessary, to be preserved for him and everyone else here.

    If you’d like, David, I’ll give you a superficial injury – by slapping some sense into you.

  • glennd1

    One more point to put the “skittles and tea” meme to bed, which is supposed to have us see poor Trayvon as just a kid out to get some candy. You see, Horowitz, you’re an elite – whether on the left on the right and have no idea what’s going on in the streets. Skittles and bottled ice tea are necessary ingredients for the gangsta intoxicant called “drank” in which they will mix with nyquil and other prescription drugs. That’s very likely what Martin was purchasing those items for. With his gangsta tats and gold grill and thug attitude. What a joke, I kept an open mind until the trial, but after what we heard this week, how can Horowitz still have his head this far up his you know what?

    • hippiepooter

      Possibly good points, but after all that Mr Horowitz has done for the cause of freedom and conservatism and you address him like that?

      • glennd1

        I’ll address him any way I please. I don’t have the same respect for him as you do as his pro-Zionism makes him anathema morally to me. You see, I’m anti-Islamist and anti-Zionist – the only moral position a person should take.

        People who follow him don’t really listen to him that closely. His acerbic ways are not one that I admire. So yeah, you can bow down to him, I’ll deal with him how he comes at me. Which, in this instance, is insipidly.

        • cathy

          ISRAEL
          Genesis 12:1-3: “Now the LORD had said to Abram, Get you out of your country, and from your kindred, and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you: And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing: AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS YOU, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSES YOU: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.”

          REPENTANCE
          2 Chronicles 7:14: “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, AND I WILL FORGIVE THEIR SIN AND WILL HEAL THEIR LAND.”

  • asa2222

    Some good points, but doesn’t mention the fact that Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder, which he does appear to not have committed. Is he totally innocent in the eyes of God? I dunno. Is he not guilty of 2nd degree murder? (Which is what the trial is examining.) It certainly appears so. There’s some confusion in this article over the “case” as the specific 2nd degree murder case, and the incident as a whole.

    • ziggy zoggy

      How is he guilty of second degree murder?

      • asa2222

        I don’t think he is, which is what I wrote.

        • The March Hare

          Not exactly. After writing “which he does appear to not have committed.” you wrote: “Is he not guilty of 2nd degree murder?” Can you not read that two ways?

          • asa2222

            Oh right. Yeah, I meant to draw attention to the fact that the defense only needs to prove “not guilty of murder 2.” They don’t need to pronounce on whether Zimmerman is totally innocent of anything.

    • hippiepooter

      Mr Horowitz certainly seems to show the way his leaning from what he knows of the evidence the jury is hearing, but I think what he’s saying is that regardless of what anyone may think on whether Mr Zimmerman should have been to trial or not on the charge he is facing, we shouldn’t rush into judgement till the verdicts in. Seems a good point to me?

  • Sally

    When GZ says he wouldn’t change what he did, i think a valid interpretation of that is that he doesn’t regret saving his own life.

  • gloria stewart

    I have enjoyed reading all the comments as much as I have enjoyed reading David’s article. David has urged us to be fair and not have knee jerk reactions – conservatives should not let liberals influence them so that they automatically go to the opposite corner.

    David should be complimented for his fairness and his emphasis on justice.

    • ziggy zoggy

      David is dead wrong about this and you know it.

    • ConradCA

      The fact that Zimmerman has to go through this trial when the evidence proves him to be innocent is a crime. It is persecution. The only reason it happened is that the progressive fascists decided to use this case for political reasons. They used it to prey on the prejudices of blacks so that they would vote 100% for the progressive fascist cause and it worked. The fact that their lies resulted in the persecution of an innocent man, a victim of Trayvon Martin is irrelevant to them. The ends justify the means and it doesn’t matter how many innocent lives they have to destroy if it help the cause. Same thing all tyrants, Hitler, Castro, Stalin and Mao, do to in order to gain political power.

  • gloria stewart

    One more comment, if I may. David is to be congratulated for emphasizing fairness and telling conservatives that they should seek justice and not simply take the opposite view that liberals take.

    • jackbenimble333

      That point have made sense two or three weeks ago. But the prosecution has now rested their case and have not even come close to the standard of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Most of their witnesses provided plenty of doubt. And not a single one offered anything close to the standard of proof.

      Maybe Mr Horowitz in unaware of it but in American jurisprudence, even if he is a known liar with all sorts of other character flaws, a defendant must be found innocent unless the prosecution can offer PROOF. We have seen none.

  • knowshistory

    Zimmerman certainly has gained an expensive education on what it means to be a member of an inferior race in America. if he achieves his freedom, which is not at all assured, next time he sees a black burglar exiting a neighbor’s house, he will say, “well done, mr nonracist black burglar. you are achieving social justice. would you allow me to help you carry that tv?”

  • philcic

    I generally agree with David Horowitz’s political positions and I have read some of his books and liked them. But from what I have learned, I think Mr. Horowitz doesn’t know many of the essential facts of this case and I am frankly surprised about what he doesn’t know about Treyvon Martin. Instead of posting a picture of the saintly Treyvon as as a angelic 14 year old, why doesn’t he post some of the pictures of Treyvon as a menacing 17 or 18 year old gang banger who stood 3 or 4 inches taller than George Zimmerman when this happened. See this site to make up your own mind:

    http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/

  • seewithyourowneyes

    1) Most conservatives are not asserting that Zimmerman is innocent; they are complaining of gross media bias, and of the media’s outright fabrication of evidence. They are complaining that the burden of proof appears to have been reversed in this case. Especially since this case seems to have been racialized and singled out during the 2012 election campaign in order to gin up the vote.

    2) I strongly disagree with David’s argument that neighborhood watch members should be forbidden to carry guns. Rather, those who incur restraining orders in domestic violence cases, like Zimmerman, or those who have previously assaulted police officers, like Zimmerman, should be prevented from carrying weapons.
    3) I strongly disagree with David’s preposterous assertion that, by following a person, you are somehow guilty of causing that person to assault you. When my neighborhood suffered from a spate of vandalism, I once stood in my yard to make sure a group of teenagers (white teenagers, by the way) knew I was watching. And I followed them when they ran into the wooded open space which ran behind the houses. I wanted them to see that I was still watching them. Are you saying that my actions would have justified a physical attack against me? Are you saying that those kids have a greater right to walk on the public streets than I do? Are you saying that the only possible reason for keeping them within my sight was hatred, malice and a desire to do them physical harm?
    4) On one hand we have Zimmerman, a man with some anger issues. On the other hand, we have Trayvon, who was living in that neighborhood only because he’d been thrown out of his previous school for his behavior issues. We have Zimmerman, who studied self-defence, and Trayvon, who bragged in his text messages about the fights he’d been in. So far, we have no solid evidence of who was the aggressor in this fight. – Our laws, our burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, are designed to favor letting the guilty to go free over convicting the innocent. There is no exception for whitish defendants with black victims whose cases arise during an election year.

    • glennd1

      There was plenty of evidence this week – all supporting Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. Don’t give Horowitz an inch on this – at this point such a position is unforgivable.

  • Churchill4President

    Each year in the USA, thousands of blacks kill other blacks. The leftists and their allies in the mainstream media conveniently ignore this national tragedy.

    Why then has this incident gotten so much disproportionate press and interest? Answer: leftists and race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton want to continue to propagate the false meme that “America is racist” so they can continue to ply their trade and keep black people angry and dependent on their Democratic party masters. This is the big picture that David Horowitz somehow has failed to grasp.

    I’m very disappointed in David Horowitz for being such a useful idiot to the left on this issue.

  • TuggerNuts

    Owned by every poster in here. I guess it’s obvious which side you go for.

  • glennd1

    Come on Horowitz, there are some substantive critiques of your position here, particularly mine. We aren’t a bunch of frothing at the mouth racists, but we can see reverse racism in action when it’s INSTITUTIONALIZED as it was in this case. Turns out there is no evidence to support the prosecution and all the evidence supports the defense. It’s not anywhere near close. While your position might have made sense before the trial began, you simply are holding onto this position out of ignorance or pride at this point.

  • TuggerNuts

    Owned by another one. Horowitz, you suck at life

  • Gee

    I don’t know if Mr. Zimmerman is guilty or not. From what has been presented so far – nothing remotely shows 2nd Degree murder, Manslaughter maybe.

    What I do know is the the Media and the US Department of Justice have gone overboard with their claims that are simply not supported by a fact.

    Oh and by the way I am a liberal.

  • TuggerNuts

    Every person was ready to crucify Zimmerman just because he shot a little black boy.

  • TuggerNuts

    Let me clarify….no one deserves to die like that….but I have to say, he kinda got what was coming to him. Don’t play in the kitchen if you can’t stand the heat..

  • TuggerNuts

    Oh yeah? You suck at life Horowitz

  • SaguaroJack49

    Saying Martin “came out of the bushes” was almost certainly a generalization by GZ. If there were bushes somewhere near, and Martin just seemed to suddenly appear (as GZ says he did), then it would be normal (or at least not abnormal) to think Martin had hidden in those bushes.

    GZ’s injuries weren’t as light as Horowitz makes them out. If you’ve ever been in a fight where your head got pounded into the concrete (I have), those wounds hurt, they bleed like crazy and your scalp stays tender for weeks. They may look like nothing to Horowitz; they weren’t.

    Horowitz implies TM did not deserve to die. Sorta depends on whom you believe. If someone starts a fight with you, slams your head into the pavement and says, “You gonna die tonight,” sounds to me like that person sorta deserves what comes to him.

    I admire and respect Dave Horowitz, but he’s out to lunch on this one and I suspect it’s because, as so many natural liberals (which he is, though his mind is conservative now), he’s not been in many actual fights in his life or had to look death in the face.

    Those experiences drastically change your thinking about aggressors.

    • The March Hare

      And brain injuries can occur without necessarily causing large injuries on the scalp.

  • Anamah

    WOW!!! After Zimmerman uncle and mom… is impossible to go farther with this farce… not even the entire Democratic Party, nor the president, can continue that kind of racial demagoguery. I really believe this cut the wings of this unmoral intrigue.
    Let the trash where it belong …MSNBC.

  • 88keyman

    Trayvon was “guiltless of any crime”? Here’s some news: Assault and battery is a crime and a serious one. And if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman’s face, he was threatenting to produce everything from death to brain injury to a lost set of teeth — none of which can reasonably be described as “superficial injuries.” To the degree that Zimmerman’s injuries WERE superficial, it is likely BECAUSE he used his gun to prevent Trayvon from making them worse, and Zimmerman had a right to shoot him to prevent that from happeneing. As to Trayvon’s Skittles, they are utterly irrelevent, a cheap mood-setting trick and a distraction used by those who don’t have a stronger argument in defense of a violent thug.

  • Kelgair

    ” Second, Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry”

    Wait, so you’re ok with depriving someone of their 2nd Amendment rights simply because they volunteer to keep watch around their neighborhood? This makes no sense. You also say that Trayvon Martin is guiltless of any crime. I don’t think the state proved at all that Mr. Zimmerman started the confrontation with Mr. Martin, so it stands to reason that Martin threw the first punch. Plus, y’know, there being no bruising or abrasions on Mr. Martins body other than on his fist. So we’re looking at least at assault. Also, since you can die from a single blow to the face this notion that his injuries were “superficial” is nonsensical.

  • http://jericho777.wordpress.com/ Jeffrey Hardin

    Horowitz, today, declared
    that George Zimmerman is a guilty liar and cannot be trusted in the
    court case against him. He says conservatives are wrong to support
    Zimmerman’s self-defense claim.

    (He also wants the repeal of Conceal and Carry gun and Stand Your Ground laws,)

    I am now unsubscribing! Zimmerman is a creep for sure, even corrupted, but to go that extra step and want our conceal carry stripped from us went to far, even Liberal…self-proclaimed “conservative I’m thinking!

  • fistdeyuma

    I want to judge the case on evidence. I’ve seen two that make me lean towards manslaughter in this case. Z had a full magazine and a round in the chamber. No one who knows how to handle a gun would ever carry one like that. Two the testimony that the shot was taken from 4 inches away. That makes me think that T was backing off when he saw the gun. I might be wrong on the second part but the unsafe carrying of the gun was a crime waiting to happen. The case is clearly overcharged to please the hate mongers, which might mean an Z will get off. I want justice, not revenge. I want to hear what Z has to say about carrying a gun that way.

    • The March Hare

      You are wrong about carrying with a round chambered. That is why single action trigger guns have a safety. Double action triggers don’t need one. Most people with CCLs carry chambered. You can get killed stopping to chamber one if you need to defend yourself.

    • Robert_Fl

      That is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read. Apparently you are the person who doesn’t know how to carry a weapon for self defense. You probably keep your half loaded magazine in a safety deposit box at the bank. Actually, you probably have never fired, let alone owned, a gun. In addition, the distance of 4 inches away you state means nothing. How does that prove that the dead guy was backing away as opposed to advancing? Unsafe carrying of a gun? You are truly a person of limited or no ability for reasoning or critical thinking.

    • JCM

      No one I know doesn’t care a gun like that. Full mags and one in the chamber.

      Most defensive gun fights occur at close range, 7ft or less. If you need your firearm often you don’t have time to chamber a round. A defender is frequently fending off the attacker with the weak hand, drawing and firing with the strong side.

      Every cop carries “hot”, full mags, one in the pipe, and a manual safety if so equipped off.

      Modern firearms are completely safe even when hot. Pin blocks, trigger safeties, back strap safeties all make it virtually impossible to discharge without a positive trigger pull.

      A gun without a round in the chamber in a ground fight is just a club.

    • ConradCA

      Did you watch the trial? Apparently not.

      The only witness testified that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin and being beaten. It would be reasonable that Zimmerman couldn’t bring his weapon closer and in fact there would be no point in doing that.

      There is no point in carrying a pistol without a cartidge in the chamber. Only an idiot or ignorant person would try to make your point. If Zimmerman had not had a round in the chamber he wouldn’t have been able to fire his gun to defend himself from his attacker.

    • keyesforpres

      I saw them say he was shot at point blank range based on the sweatshirt.

      • fistdeyuma

        So much contrary information is coming out. I guess I’ll have to wait for the trial to end before a clear picture emerges. I was wrong on the round in the chamber. Part of old school where such was just not done. Been retired from the Marines to long to be up on the carry standard I guess. The range will be important but I doubt it would swing the things either way. Given the burden of proof I cannot see any way they get a conviction here. Of course that all depends on the jury. I’ve seen some really strange results over the years.
        I would be carful on defense. They seem to have a it won so all they chance is losing it. They had be really sure that anyone they put on the stand will not do what many of the procession’s witnesses did, help the other side.

  • liven-in-iraq

    Are they not guilty of the same rush to judgment that made liberals convict Zimmerman before the facts, and merely reacting to that injustice rather than to the actual elements of the case?
    ++++++++
    Hardly. Liberals were attacking Zimmerman before ANY evidence was collected. Exhibit 1: Andrea Mitchell called Zimmerman “white”.
    Exhibit 2: MSNBC’s editing the 911 call to make Zimmerman a racist.
    Exhibit 3: Facebook and other social media calling for riots if Zimmerman is found not guilty.

    • ConradCA

      Your forgetting all the claims that Zimmerman was uninjured and the carefully chosen photo that somehow didn’t show his injuries.

  • FairestWitness

    Mr. Horowitz, I have been troubled by the answer George Zimmerman gave to Sean Hannity, too. I think you are not aware that Zimmerman became the neighborhood watch captain at The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford after a series of home invasions and buglaries in the gated community. One such home invasion involved a young mother and infant who were home at the time they were broken into by several young, black men. The citizens and residents of this gated community were SCARED!!!!

    George Zimmerman stepped up to protect them and their property – THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN HIM ASSUMING THAT ROLE. In fact, it’s brave and admirable. It’s a shame Trayvon Martin decided to play tough guy that fateful night because he messed with the wrong man – make that COURAGEOUS MAN.

    He didn’t immediately pull his weapon and open fire. Zimmerman was knocked to the ground by a punch to the nose, his head was then repeatedly pummelled by Trayvon, who had straddled Zimmerman’s chest and had him pinned to the ground on his back. Still Zimmerman didn’t pull his gun & fire, instead he cried out & screamed for HELP from the neighbors whose community he patrolled & tried to protect – NO ONE STEPPED IN TO PHYSICALLY HELP HIM STOP THE ATTACK! Only when Trayvon told Zimmerman he was going to die tonight and went for his weapon did Zimmerman pull the gun and shoot.

    I don’t know about you, Mr. Horowitz, but me? If my neighborhood was experiencing burglaries and home invasions on a regular basis, I would want an armed, aggressive, assertive, strong man patrolling and challenging strangers who acted suspiciously. I would want to be protected.

    Like I said, Trayvon Martin chose the wrong man to attack. I’m sorry that mistake cost him his life. I’m sorry for George Zimmerman, too. He just wanted to protect his home, his neighbors and their property, which is a noble pursuit.

    • ConradCA

      Well Zimmerman wasn’t aggressive, he didn’t challenge any one. All he did was observe and report someone who he thought was suspicious. That is exactly was he was suppose to do, what the police told the neighborhood watch to do.

      • hippiepooter

        I would assume, that what may have been utmost in Mr Zimmerman’s mind seeing this suspicious person going through his neighbourhood, was that if he didn’t follow him regardless of the fact that the Police were on their way, there’s no telling what might have happened if the suspect had entered someone’s house when by following him that could have been prevented.

  • Jim Heller

    Horowitz uncharacteristically disappoints. The state’s case never came close to withstanding scrutiny, let alone meeting the criminal standard of proof. Since the trial commenced, it got far worse. Zimmerman’s statements on all material points are corroborated left, right and center. The screams, the physical injuries, the timing … David, you blew it this time!

  • WackoTurds

    Sorry, but most here are very uninformed about the type and level of pain associated with broken facial bones such as the nose. At the time of injury, there is most often accompanied hemorrhaging, resulting for one in Zimmerman’s position on the ground in a clotted post-nasal drip that clots and clogs in the nasal passages, whilst further blows cause more and more passages to fill.

    Think someone telling you you are going to die this night, along with “waterboarding” on your own stiffened blood and mucous, and you about have it right.

  • WackoTurds

    Sorry, but most here are very uninformed about the type and level of pain associated with broken facial bones such as the nose. At the time of injury, there is most often accompanied hemorrhaging, resulting for one in Zimmerman’s position on the ground in a clotted post-nasal drip that clots and clogs in the nasal passages, whilst further blows cause more and more passages to fill.

    Think someone telling you you are going to die this night, along with “waterboarding” on your own stiffened blood and mucous, and you about have it right.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Exactly. It doesn’t feel good and it goes on for YEARS.

  • 8ball

    I take it David that you’ve never suffered a broken nose. Get someone to break your nose with their fist. Then have that person sit on you and smash you head into a side walk while the blood from your nose is going down your throat. Zimmerman’s impolitic answers to Hannity’s questions prove only that he’s not very bright.

    • FairestWitness

      I don’t think it’s ignorance, 8ball. I think George Zimmerman viewed his neighborhood watch captain role as righteous. Their homes and property were being preyed upon by burglars and home invaders – the perpetrators being identified by various neighborhood eyewitnesses as groups of black males. Some of those witnesses are black residents who live at The Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community. The crimes were ongoing and they were scared and angry about their homes being broken into and their property being stolen. George Zimmerman was looked upon as someone who was helping, looking out for everyone who lived there. He isn’t sorry about what happened because he views protecting his home, neighbors and property as the right thing to do. He’s not sorry about his actions because Trayvon Martin assaulted him, which is a felony, and was attempting to inflict grievous bodily injury and death. I think he was naive.

  • IrateScientist

    Mr Horowitz,

    Because of the great respect I have for you, I will restrain my first response, and simply say, that a lot of information was available about this case when the incident first occurred. In particular, there were maps and timelines that made it clear that Martin had two minutes to cover 400 feet if he wanted to go home and lock the door behind him. Instead, those two minutes found him on top of George Zimmerman, raining down blows upon him, according to the only eyewitness. All of this was known more than a year ago. It was evident that Martin was the aggressor, that Zimmerman was defending himself, and, most important, that the whole controversy was a railroad, engineered by a race-hustling vermin by the name of Crump, egged on by the likes of Sharpton and Jackson, eagerly entered into by Martin’s venal parents, with the breathless assistance of the Left Fascist jackal media and the craven and corrupt Florida law enforcement system.

    In short, this is an open and shut case. The fact is, even if you believe everything the witnesses for the prosecution said, with the exception of the patently false ID of the screaming voice by Ms. Martin, which was contradicted by the eye-witness, you still would not need to give Zimmerman the benefit of any doubt to find him not guilty. There has been no evidence presented that he was guilty of any crime.

    All of this was evident long ago, and it was not knee-jerk racial prejudice which informed the views of millions of conservatives. Rather, I can only hope that it was ignorance of these readily available facts that led to your own misguided notions about this sickening miscarriage of justice.

  • JCM

    Mr. Horowitz concludes that we should give the streets over the the thugs.

    That’s what repealing stand your ground outside the home would mean.

    That some place I have a legal right to be, when someone wants to perpetrate a crime on my person, I have a duty to retreat.

    I cannot protect my family, I cannot protect others around me… I must give way to the thugs.

    Liberty includes many things, among them the responsibility for our immediate safety and security.

  • Progressives Rule

    The defense has done a good job of muddying the waters. However, Zimmerman, aka WannaBeCopCoward, is now a proven liar. None of his cockamamie story can now be believed. He showed his malice towards an unknown kid right from the beginning. All the jury has to do is listen to his interview with the detectives. They call him on each of his lies. It is obvious he concocted his unbelievable story after finding out he got his ars kicked by a barely 17 year old kid.
    .
    Where’s the blood on Martin’s hands that supposedly were suffocating the lying coward with a broken, bleeding nose?
    .
    Why didn’t any of those 911 calls pick up Martin screaming “You’re gonna die tonight”?
    .
    Does anybody believe a 17 yr old black kid would say “You got me” after being shot in the heart?
    .
    Zimmerman killed that innocent kid without EVER thinking that maybe that kid was also a member of his neighborhood.

    • JCM

      The defense hasn’t presented it’s case.

      The prosecution utterly failed to prove the elements of murder two, let alone manslaughter.

      You are advocating the death penalty without evidence, only suppositions.

      • Progressives Rule

        The prosecution has provided plenty of evidence proving Zimmerman pursued Martin, against his training and 911 instructions. They proved he attacked Martin. They proved he’s a liar.
        .
        Perhaps the death penalty is a tad harsh. ;^) However, the coward’s true heart was exposed when he told Hannity he would not do anything any differently. This after he knew Martin was no threat to the community. He would not even say he should have stayed in his truck or followed at a safe distance and waited for the police to arrive. No, he wanted to be in a situation where he could act and feel like he was a real cop.
        .
        Hang ‘em high!

        • JCM

          What evidence proves Martin followed?

          He said he was follow, but then return to the his vehicle and Martin attacked. There is NO EVIDENCE to contradict that, therefore there is reasonable doubt.

          The evidence so far does not support charges…. look up the FL laws for what they have to prove, the prosecution has proven none of it.

          Even if you don’t believe Zimmerman you have to take the evidence, the evidence is what matters, and the evidence does not supporting the prosecutions case.

          • Progressives Rule

            The WannaBeCopCoward was told immediately upon exiting his truck that he didn’t have to follow Martin. So, how did he end up way the fk up where Martin was murdered?
            The coward showed in his walk thru where he walked “after” he was told to stop following.
            Use yer dam brains!

          • JCM

            What law says he has to obey dispatch?

            What law says following a suspicious person is illegal and constitutes elements of murder 2?

            Park your emotions.

          • ConradCA

            When the operator told Zimmerman that he didn’t need to follow Trayvon what did Zimmerman say? He said OK and according to his statement he walked away from Trayvon to the mail boxes where he was going to wait for the police. Then Martin approached him from behind and assaulted him.

            The persecutor provided no evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s statement and in fact proved that he was telling the truth. The lead investigator for the case stated that Zimmerman’s statement was corroborated by the evidence in every significant respect. He also told of telling Zimmerman that there was video of these event and Zimmerman said “Thank God!”. This is all the proof you need to understand that the persecution didn’t meet their burden of proof. The only crime was the persecution of Zimmerman.

        • keyesforpres

          I am guessing you are a hate filled, racist, black man.

    • cristo52

      And no one in the Sanford Mayor’s office warned Ms. Fulton that the tape they were about to play for her for the very first time may have contained the screams of her dead son. Trayvon’s mother cannot be believed.

      • Progressives Rule

        You don’t think the defense interviewed everyone who was in that room? If they had any evidence anyone was warned about the content of that recording don’t you think the defense would have put them on? Use your brain.

        • cristo52

          Hey, “use your brain,” the defense only opened its case Friday afternoon and put on two witnesses, Zimmerman’s mother and Zimmerman’s uncle. Court was then recessed until Monday 8:30. Attorney Crump is being deposed Sunday, you can be sure there will be a lot of questions about how he set this thing up, and who knows what the world might find out if he actually tells the true under oath – our maybe he believes in “critical race theory,” and that the oath is a “white man’s oath” and he doesn’t have to tell the truth.

          • Progressives Rule

            This issue is for soap opera lovers. It has nothing to do with the murder of an unarmed 17 yr old boy.

          • keyesforpres

            17 is not a boy. Most 17 year olds are men. You are right that Martin was no man in the moral sense….he was a thuggish piece of trash. He had just been suspended from school because they found stolen jewelry and tools in his locker at school.
            He was full grown though in size.

    • ConradCA

      Maybe Martin’s knees were on Zimmerman’s upper arms which allowed Zimmerman’s arms to been at the elbow and thereby reach his gun. The fact is that Zimmerman was pinned to the ground and being beaten up by Martin. This was proven by the evidence presented in this case. Zimmerman’s injuries, wet grass on Zimmerman’s back, Trayvon’s knees, and eye witness testimony. The lead investigator for this case stated that Zimmerman’s statement was supported by the evidence in every significant respect.

      People frequently die from head injuries that appear on the outside to be insignificant. You don’t have to actually suffer life threatening injuries to defend yourself. You only have to have a reasonable fear of it to defend yourself as Zimmerman did. Being hit in the face, knocked to the ground, pinned down and being beaten are plenty of justification for defending yourself.

      • Progressives Rule

        “Maybe Martin’s knees were on Zimmerman’s upper arms which allowed his arms to bend at the elbow and thereby reach his gun.”
        Put your arms in that position. Your arms, from the elbow to the hand, are not long enough to reach your waist.
        .
        I’m not saying he was a “fighter”. I think he’s a weakling, wanna be cop-like man. However, MMA is a lot about working while on the bottom. He couldn’t get up or roll over with a barely 17 yr old on top of his who he outweighed by 50 pounds? Not believable.
        .
        The prosecution proved the WannaBeCopCoward is a liar. NOTHING he said happened can be believed. In fact, much of it doesn’t make sense. Martin’s friend was on the phone with him most of the time and she heard nothing like Martin running after the coward. In fact, she testified consistently that the coward attack Martin while she was on the phone with Martin.
        .
        There is NO evidence Martin backtracked on the coward and attacked him. None.
        .
        His head injuries were NOTHING!
        .
        The coward attacked Martin. Martin was using HIS right to self defense. You can’t start a fight and then use deadly force claiming self defense when the fight goes against you. I don’t know about Florida but, in most states the threat of death has to be real to a sane person. Just because he’s a puzzy and got scared because a barely 17 yr old punched him in the nose isn’t a life threatening situation. He had no cause to shoot that kid.
        .
        Remember, Zimmerman is asking the jury to believe that he, a grown man weighing 204 lbs, was actually afraid for his life from a barely 17 yr old kid weighing a whopping 150 lbs. Not believable!
        .
        Zimmerman attacked Martin. The evidence is there. His lies about what he did and why he did things are evident in his interview.
        .
        Measure him for his striped suit.

        • ConradCA

          You are a sad person. Full of hatred and ignorance. You are ignoring the evidence in this case to present your feelings about the case that have no basis in fact.

          Zimmerman wrote a statement that told the police what happened that night and how he came to shoot Trayvon. The lead investigator for the case stated that the evidence support Zimmerman’s statement in every respect that was significant.

          There was an eye witness that testified that Zimmerman was pinned to the ground by Trayvon and that Trayvon was beating on him MMA style. This fact is supported by Zimmerman’s injuries and the grass stains on their clothing.

          We have see the complete persecution case and they provided no evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s statement that he shot in self defense. Your belief otherwise is evil just as evil as the racists who abused the justice system against the ni*gg*rs in the Jim Crow south.

        • keyesforpres

          Awww….the barely 17 year old kid….most 17 year olds are adult size. Remember, Martin jumped him and immediately started pounding his head on the pavement. That would stun a person.

  • cristo52

    If Mr. Zimmerman hunted Trayvon Martin, as the prosecution claimed today, why even call 911, why not just wait in the truck until Martin moved into the darkness, follow him and put a bullet in his back? Why go through all the extra effort, complication and danger? And if Trayvon Martin was at the father’s fiance’s condo, as Rachel Jeantal testified, why did the altercation take place at the other end of the dog walk, six or seven condos away from Trayvon’s sanctuary?

    • Progressives Rule

      To cover his ars. To LOOK like he was a cop. But, we all now know he is nothing but a lying coward wanna be.

      • ziggy zoggy

        “Lying coward wanna be.”
        Yes. Yes you are.

  • http://www.BR-549.com Junior Samples

    So you know nothing about firearms, self defense, fighting and this case? Yet you feel qualified to not only write about it but propose changes in the law? You’re almost as bad as that other neocon, Michael Savage. Go away.

  • JoeThePimpernel

    Too bad Dave didn’t familiarize himself with the actual facts of the case.

    Evidently David is unaware of the fact that Stand Your Ground was not invoked.

    When someone is in the process of beating you to death and trying to smother you, it’s not stand your ground. It’s ordinary self-defense.

    Unless David believes that you should not defend themselves when someone is beating you and putting his hand over your nose and mouth so you can’t breathe.

  • Molly

    I have never disagreed with any assessment of David Horowitz until now, and I’ve read at least 3 of his books and subscribed to Heterodoxy for its entire life.

    Yes, Zimmerman’s refusal to express any regret at Martin’s death in the interview with Hannity was disturbing, but he had probably been coached by lawyers to not publicly admit to any wrongdoing. This would have been standard legal advice for someone giving an interview pre-trial, and he could have just overinterpreted it.

    As for his guilt or innocence, Zimmerman is on trial for murder, not manslaughter.

    He may have some culpability and probably could have avoided a physical confrontation with Martin, but murder?

    Conservatives are right thinking and well reasoned to believe him innocent of that.

    • ConradCA

      Zimmerman said OK in response to the operators statement that he didn’t need to follow Martin. Then he turned and walked back towards his truck and the mail boxes to wait for the police to arrive. He was attacked by Martin from behind and this prevented him from using his weapon as he was punched in the face, knocked down, pinned to the ground and beaten MMA style by Martin.

      • wildjew

        You might be right. Zimmerman might have turned and walked back towards his truck and the mail boxes to wait for the police to arrive. Is this Zimmerman’s testimony? Are there any corroborating witnesses to this effect? Is it possible Zimmerman said said OK and then continued to pursue Martin? What then?

        • Laurel

          The defense is just starting to mount their case. It might very well be his testimony. Why is your mind made up that he is guilty until proven innocent, and in this country proven innocent never seems to happen regardless of jury verdicts. Guilty is guilty forever.

          • wildjew

            My mind is NOT made up that he is guilty. I have barely been following this trial until now. I find more important issues (at least in terms of priority) taking up my time, such as what Obama is doing to this nation and its security; his eavesdropping on law-abiding Americans rather than mosques, his apparent use (misuse) of the full force of government (IRS) to destroy his enemies, Obamacare, etc.

            It seems to me when this story first broke, the left (along with many in the African American community, including this president) took the political position Zimmerman was guilty, while the political right took the position he was and is innocent. I am uncertain. I ask probing questions on the right (as I did when George W. Bush was president) and immediately conservatives assume I am a traitor to the right. What is that about? Bush repeatedly lied about Islam and Israel. Bush sold-out Israel to his Saudi friends. Where was the right? Where? They stood shoulder to shoulder with Bush; circled the wagons around Bush and his lies. Where were you??

          • Laurel

            Your posts portend otherwise and of course took up the view he was innocent because in this country you are innocent until proven guilty…remember?!

            Your left right scenario has little to do with it and I am unequivocally without a doubt sure your obsession with Bush has absolutely nothing to do with it.

          • wildjew

            How do my posts portend otherwise? Please be specific. “Left-right” scenario has a lot to do with politics here in America, as does my “obsession” with the right’s (Republican party, conservatives and conservative activists’) strong and consistent support for George W. Bush, notwithstanding the many untruths he told the American people about our friends and allies. Ever wondered how the political right handed the White House to Barack Hussein Obama Laurel? Have you given it any thought? The right might be correct about Zimmerman’s innocence – I cannot say – yet because I am a conservative, I am not going to swallow willynilly the “conservative line” on this issue, hook, line and sinker.

          • Laurel

            Read your posts objectively…if you can.

            Your comparisons are not comparable and quite frankly ridiculous. I have thought plenty on it…but it still has nothing to do with Zimmerman.

          • wildjew

            Someone wrote above, “Conservatives are right thinking and well reasoned to believe him innocent…” etc.

            My response was largely to that. I read my posts objectively. You will have to give me an example of a lack of partiality.

            Did you read this piece authored by David Horowitz? Horowitz wrote “Black Skin Privilege and the American Dream, Radicals: Portraits of a Destructive Passion,” among others. My guess is Horowitz has given this issue some thought. Do you lightly dismiss his point of view?

          • ConradCA

            Horowitz obviously hasn’t paid any attention to the evidence presented at the trial. This evidence proves that Zimmerman was telling the truth and that he shot in self defense.

            This trial clearly shows that the only reason Zimmerman is being persecuted is because Obama’s son looks like Trayvon. Obama and the progressive fascists needed to scare blacks into supporting Obama in 2012 and they lies and the persecution of Zimmerman to achieve that.

          • wildjew

            Obama injecting himself politically into the case did not help the prosecution any more than his statement that the Cambridge police acted stupidly when they arrested his friend.

          • Laurel

            No I don’t lightly dismiss his point of view but his entire point is not based on rational examination of the evidence…it’s based on emotion. Furthermore the trial isn’t even finished yet and he has him convicted based on conclusions not in fact. He should never ever be allowed to sit on any jury just based on this article alone.

            Now if he had written this and included more evidence, less emotion, AFTER defense has presented Zimmerman side, then I might just maybe if well examined and well written replete with logical conclusions, come to the same result…but that isn’t what Horowitz did here. Quite frankly I am surprised at David for this. David usually gives evidence and here he did not.

          • wildjew

            Horowitz did provide evidence. It’s just that you and others reject the evidence he presents. There were a few (not many) on the right that questioned early on, Zimmerman’s need to pursue (follow) Martin, beyond the fact the 911 operator told him he need not do that. To some, the idea of following or pursuing connotes aggression. You might not agree with that point of view but it is a point of contention.

            Horowitz wrote:

            “What we have learned through the process of the trial thus far is that the only surviving witness, Zimmerman, is not credible. He has lied on several revealing occasions. First about not having any money to post bail when he had $150,000 in his account. Second, about not being aware of the Stand Your Ground Law, when he had taken a class that discussed the law. Third, and most importantly, about Trayvon jumping out of the bushes to attack him — because those bushes don’t exist. So, one has to ask, did he also lie about returning to his vehicle and that only then was he attacked? Or was he still following Trayvon, provoking the alleged attack?”

          • Laurel

            Stop posting nonsense to me because you want to hear yourself babble.

            Horowitz is wrong in the eyes of the law, and so are you, since numerous witnesses were presented in court including an eye witness to the fight itself. You are silly and ridiculous for even quoting that pablum that he wrote back to me. What counts is the law itself and witnesses and evidence were presented in court. Horowitz’s conclusion is just plain wrong. And Zimmerman hasn’t testified so how is it he is wrong? How is it that a cop on the stand said she and the other officers believed Zimmerman but you and Horowitz somehow know better when neither one of you are cops, investigators, or were even present. You as well as Horowitz put the damn cart before the horse and now are dancing especially since you didn’t even address my other points! YOU HAVE DRAWN CONCLUSIONS BEFORE THE TRIAL IS EVEN OVER. Now let that sink in. Anyone with any objectivity at all would of never ever written this column or defend the author for writing it. I don’t know where you learned critical thinking skills but you need to go back and re-learn them. And take note that the bulk of the comments are against you and Horowitz and most are logically presented. Same with the comments at Breitbart about this column. Horowitz is attempting to deny not only Zimmerman but Trayvon himself justice simply by writing this damn hit piece. Shame on him and shame on you for defending this un-American behavior. We are innocent until proven guilty in this country and we don’t sit as judge and jury when the trial isn’t even over yet.

            NOW GOOD DAY!

          • wildjew

            Question. The prosecution looks to be incompetent. Some lawyers ask, why they would put Zimmerman’s interview before the jury (in essence Zimmerman’s side of the story) without any cross examination.

            HANNITY: Do you regret getting out of the car to follow Trayvon that night?

            ZIMMERMAN : No, sir.

            HANNITY: Do you regret that you had a gun that night?

            ZIMMERMAN: No, sir…. I feel it was all God’s plan, and for me to second guess it or judge it —

            HANNITY: Is there anything you might do differently in retrospect now that time has passed a little bit?

            ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.

            Why do you think Zimmerman has no regrets? Why do you think he said “it was all God’s plan.” ?

          • ConradCA

            You clearly haven’t paid attention to the trial and the evidence that was present. If you had you would have and no doubt that the state failed to make their case. Actually you would be certain that the state proved George Zimmerman was innocent of all charges. That this is a political trial in which the George Zimmerman is a victim of Obama and the progressive fascists.

          • wildjew

            I am running a business during the week. I’ve not had time to follow this trial closely except for hourly news reports during the day. Oh yes, there is talk radio. Over the past couple of days I’ve been catching up on my reading and on-line videos. Fox has several I’ve been watching including Greta Van Susteren, etc.

            Most attorneys interviewed are saying the prosecution is doing a terrible job; that they are helping make the case for the defense. Maybe Zimmerman is innocent of all charges, as you say.

            One thing that baffles me is this. Why hasn’t Zimmerman (the accused) been put on the stand to testify under oath? That would be one of the first things I would demand were I the prosecution.

            Maybe in Florida that is not the prosecution’s call, but it is left up to the defense. One of the defense attorneys seemed to indicate precisely that in an interview with Greta. He says defense has not decided whether or not to put Zimmerman on the stand and he generally does NOT put a defendant on the stand unless the prosecution’s case is hurting his client which clearly it is not in this case.

            Don’t you think it immoral that a defendant who is accused of murder can refuse to testify or that his defense team can make that call?

          • ConradCA

            “One thing that baffles me is this. Why hasn’t Zimmerman (the accused)
            been put on the stand to testify under oath? That would be one of the
            first things I would demand were I the prosecution.”

            This shows that you have zero knowledge of US laws. The prosecution can never put a defendant on the stand. He only testifies if he and his lawyer decide to.

          • wildjew

            Which again begs the question, “Don’t you think it immoral that a defendant who is accused of murder can refuse to testify or that his defense team can make that call?”

            The other day, I was asked by another low life: “Don’t you support the Constitution?” My answer: “I support the Constitution where it is moral.” Why should I support what is immoral in the Constitution such as allowing IRS employee Louis Lerner to take the Fifth?

            Are you one of those simpletons who say,” Well, it’s the law” or “that’s the way we do things here…” ?

            Duh!

          • ConradCA

            No! If the state wants to convict me of a crime they have to do it with my help.

            Obama sent his criminal Louis Lerner on a paid vacation as a reward for keeping her mouth shut. She should be fired for failing to do her job which is to answer their questions.

        • ConradCA

          I am familiar with Zimmerman’s statement. Furthermore, as the persecution has completed their case and none of the evidence they presented conflicted with Zimmerman’s statement. If they had any evidence that Zimmerman was lying then why didn’t they produce it in court? Add to this the lead investigative officer for this case stated that Zimmerman’s statement was corroborated by the evidence in every significant respect and he was testifying for the persecution!

    • ConradCA

      When you are charged with 2nd murder in Florida you are also charged with manslaughter.

      • Molly

        Well the two charges have different criteria in Florida, and they are trying to prove 2nd degree murder. Actually, I’ve never heard that he was also charged with manslaughter. I think you made that up.

        • ConradCA

          See http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense//#more for:

          “The formal charge against Zimmerman is murder in the second degree: 782.04. Murder.

          In Florida (as in most states) manslaughter is a lesser included offense of murder, and so the jury will also be read the manslaughter charge as a matter of course. 782.02. Manslaughter.”

        • T.A.

          Because manslaughter is a “lesser included offense” of murder the jury could find him guilty of manslaughter even though they find him innocent of 2nd degree murder.

          In addition, I’ve read that if the prosecution thinks they won’t be able to get a murder 2 conviction they have the option of reducing the charge to manslaughter before final jury deliberations.

    • wildjew

      You say conservatives are right thinking him innocent of that (i.e., murder). Martin was not armed, we do know that. Doesn’t it depend on Zimmerman’s intent?

      • Molly

        For 2nd degree murder it usually depends on not just intent but what can be proven about intent. The evidence against any prior malicious intent is pretty solid. For example, why would call 911 a few minutes before the shooting? When the police told him the incident had been videotaped, his response was “Thank God.”

        What is with the random rant on Bush.

        • wildjew

          You make some strong points. I will have to give them some thought. I do not know Zimmerman’s history. Do you suppose there might be murderers who displayed no prior malicious intent to the murder? My guess is you are correct, murderous violence does not come out of the blue but can someone murder without having a prior record of killing?

          Note, radio talk show host Michael Savage has gotten lots of coverage on Daily Caller and other publications for telling his listeners the other night, Zimmerman must be found guilty. Savage has been a disappointment to me in some respects, the most recent of which was his strong support for Mitt Romney -coupled by some hostility toward his primary opponents – before he became the nominee. That having been said, I listened attentively the other night.

          My “random” rant on Bush? Were you an uncritical George W. Bush supporter for seven plus year post 9/11? If you weren’t, with what if anything did you take issue? The point about Bush is this. The vast majority of conservatives whom you believe are right thinking and well reasoned, uncritically supported Bush. Consequently my appraisal of the judgment of my fellow conservatives took a significant dive.

          • glennd1

            You offer nothing of value to argue other than hyperbole. Many conservatives saw this trial as politically motivated in the first place as after the initial, throrough investigation by police it was concluded there was insufficient evidence to even charge Zimmerman. In fact, the Dept of Justice used is special race-case division to intervene locally and various race hucksters like Sharpton applied massive, hateful pressure to have charges brought at all.

            Given just those facts, one who is rational might be sensitive to Zimmerman in this case. But when the “evidence” for the case against Zimmerman was shown to be basically nothing this week, many of us have now had it. This guy was pilloried in the press and has been brought up on politically motivated charges that never would have been brought had it not been for the race-maniacs at DOJ and lowlifes like Sharpton.

            But still, until the trial started, I kept an open mind. I was concerned by Zimmerman’s mistatements, but in fact these kind of inconsistencies are much more common that you’d think in these cases. Zimmerman may have been embellishing out of fear, but that doesn’t mean he attacked Zimmerman.

            However, after this week, it’s an open and shut case. Maybe you and Horowitz don’t know it but many lawyers publicly opined that the lack of evidence was so extreme as to justify a dismissal by the judge – and I think if this wasn’t such a nationally racially charged case, it would have been dismissed. Elliot Abrams (a noted legal journalist at ABC) concluded just this morning publicly that he couldn’t see how a jury could convict based on the evidence presented in any event. And the defense hasn’t even presented it’s case yet.

            You and Horowitz speak here as though it’s 7 months ago and none of this had passed. We conservatives don’t just go trawling around for cases to support where black people are killed – but we do get activated when we see systematic and institutional injustice being perpetuated by race baiting thugs.

            Wake up and shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

          • wildjew

            You make some good points about the motivations on the left. I expect the jury will find Zimmerman innocent. When you write STFU elsewhere, and shut up here, you undermine your credibility “with me.” Horowitz is not the only one on the right asking questions about Zimmerman’s statements. My late father (an attorney) always warned his clients to tell the truth. Do NOT lie to the judge or the jury. Do not lie in depositions. Zimmerman’s untruths do not help him in the eyes of those of us who value honesty over dishonesty. You apparently wink at the latter. Why? Or will I get another STFU?

          • glennd1

            Yeah, I do because you prattle on like a thoughtless child. Your commentary illuminates nothing, and is often at odds with facts on record or elsewhere, like your moronic comment about Zimmerman having a round in the chamber and no safety above.

            You are totally focused on supposed mistatements Zimmerman made, and your claim that this somehow makes him guilty of attacking Martin. Again, you just show how little you know about the real world. People often make incomplete and incorrect statements to the police – victims and suspects alike. I’d like/ to know more about those inconsistencies, but again, you bring this up as though we didn’t get eyewitness testimony that Martin was beating Zimmerman and Zimmerman was screaming (the 911 call gives us the second piece). You seem to think this breaks the case wide open – but actually it’s not material given the other evidence on offer.

            So really, just shut up. You have nothing to stand on, nothing to teach us – you are on some bizarre little campaign of your own for your own reasons. It has nothing to do with Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence – that much is clear to me. Because if that was your concern. the trial so far would have you saying what Elliot Abrams said this morning “There is no legal basis for a jury to come back with a guilty verdict.”.

            That’s why I go at you. i’m sick to death of people who can’t think clearly but run their mouths all the time. Enough already with you.

          • wildjew

            It was a pretty amazing statement Zimmerman made to Sean Hannity, that his killing Trayvon Martin was “God’s will.” Amazing, don’t you think? What he is saying is that Martin’s death was foreordained and Zimmerman was merely the instrument for God’s will. No other outcome. No choice. No free will. The entire bloody thing was pre-determined. You are OK with that?

          • JamesMc

            What’s objectionable? Admittedly, as an agnostic, I find it hard to credit but we’re talking about Zimmerman’s beliefs. There’s nothing unusual about a Christian claiming a tragedy was “God’s will”. It’s an often used way of dealing with tragedy, by allowing oneself not to be driven insane by the what if’s that can’t be changed in retrospect.

          • ConradCA

            The persecutor should be disbarred for taking this case to trial and they sued for everything he owns and well every earn.

          • BAW

            Pretty much what happened to the DA in the Duke Rape Hoax. But rational people stepped in and stopped that travesty before it ever got to trial. For one thing, the President of the United States had not joined the “lynch mob.” Actually, Obama stood for the rule of law then (proof that he does know right from wrong). He supported a federal inquiry into the misconduct of the Duke DA. But he longer needs to be seen as a voice of reason and he chose sides. Hard to imagine how justice can ever be served in this case.

      • glennd1

        STFU.

        • wildjew

          You are a low life.

      • ConradCA

        “You say conservatives are right thinking him innocent of that (i.e.,
        murder). Martin was not armed, we do know that. Doesn’t it depend on
        Zimmerman’s intent?”

        Whats important is what the evidence shows. The evidence supports Zimmerman’s claim of self defense. That he was attacked from behind while walking away from Trayvon. That is why he was unable to defend himself with is gun before suffering a beating at the hands of Trayvon.

        Furthermore, the lead investigating officer stated that Zimmerman’s statement was supported by the evidence the police collected. That when he told Zimmerman that there was video of the confrontation Zimmerman said “Thank God!”. If you still believe Zimmerman is guilty after this testimony then you are a liar or an idiot.

        • wildjew

          I haven’t see that bit of evidence, that as you say, he was attacked from behind while walking away from Martin. Can you provide a good link? That Zimmerman allegedly indicated to the officer he was thankful there was a video of the struggle, redounds to his side or benefit. On that I can agree.

          • ConradCA

            The evidence is logical deduction from the known evidence. It is the only explanation of how Trayvon was able to beat up Zimmerman without him drawing his gun. If Zimmerman had been facing Trayvon he would have seen him approach and have his hand on his gun ready to shot Trayvon if he assaulted him.

        • wildjew

          How do you respond to Horowitz’s statement, “Given that the young man was unarmed and that he inflicted very superficial injuries on his adversary during their scuffle, Zimmerman’s claim that he was in fear for his life has to be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least.” ?

          • ConradCA

            Trayvon was beating Zimmerman. He had him pinned down and was bashing his head into the ground. You can die from that and Zimmerman doesn’t have to wait until he suffers a sever injury to defend himself.

            Though it was justified Zimmerman didn’t shoot Trayvon until he tried to grab is gun and kill him with it. IMHO Zimmerman was a fool not to shoot Trayvon when he started bashing his head into the ground.

  • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

    Any one who reads his article will see his argument consists of emotional appeals:

    “What we do know is that a young man who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead. And shouldn’t there be some penalty to pay for that?”

    non-sequitur legal issues:

    “not being aware of the Stand Your Ground Law, when he had taken a class that discussed the law,”

    and irrelevant facts to the case at hand:

    “First about not having any money to post bail when he had $150,000 in his account”

    This case is about a man charged with murder claiming self-defense. Pitying the aggressor, propping up an SYG strawman and then changing the subject to an anti- 2nd amendment argument, and brining up peripheral BS about the aftermath of the event instead of the event itself is all standard Marxist bait and switch and not at all a conservative or libertarian argument.

    Horowitz shows you can take the man out of the commune but you cant always take the Communist out of the man.

    • wildjew

      Why do you consider TM the aggressor and not GZ? The 911 operator told Zimmerman “you don’t need to do that,” (follow Martin) and he did follow (pursue) Martin nonetheless.

      • ConradCA

        When the operator stated that he didn’t need to follow Zimmerman replied OK. That indicates acceptance and conforms to his statement that he walked to the mail boxes away from Trayvon to wait for the police. So the only evidence supports Zimmerman’s claim that he stopped following after talking to the operator.

      • http://www.catwyp.com/ ColdHeartedPatriot

        No, he didnt. He lost sight of Trayvon from his truck, was asked by the 911 op what the address was. Zimmerman got out, walked down a path to get an address and on the way back to his car with the address, NOT following anyone at this point, is when Trayvon came out of nowhere to Zimmerman’s left.

        Trayvon according to Jenteal in 3 different versions, verbally confronted GZ and according to their other eyewitnesses, Trayvon had GZ pinned and beating him. Unless you find calling 911, looking for an address, being confronted, being pinned and being beaten aggressive actions I dont see why you would consider that GZ was the aggressor.

  • ConradCA

    In fact Trayvon Martin committed a felony when he hit Zimmerman, when he knocked him down, when he pinned him to the ground and when he beat Zimmerman MMA style. These facts are supported by the evidence presented at the trial by prosecution witnesses. Furthermore, they provide plenty of justification of Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon in self defense.

    Now if Zimmerman had hunted Trayvon Martin down as the prosecution claims then why did he call 911 before shooting Trayvon? Why did he let Trayvon beat him up before shooting? He would have drawn his gun and shot before Trayvon could have assaulted him.

  • T.A.

    I would take “came out of the bushes” to mean “came out of the shadows”. For a traumatic experience taking place after dark, I wouldn’t expect anyone to have a perfect memory of landscape features that are largely irrelevant.

    • ConradCA

      Trayvon attacked Zimmerman from behind. This is the only explanation for him being able to approach and inflict a beating on Zimmerman without being shot beforehand.

  • kenroyall

    “Second, Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry.”

    That statement alone leaves Dave’s credibility in shambles.

  • Bill Cervetti

    David, thank you for an extraordinarily shrewd, mature and even-handed assessment of this case. As usual you stand (nearly) alone, though I have been arguing these points with friends of mine from nearly the beginning. Let’s hope the jury finds it within itself to remain objective and not succumb to the idiot’s refuge of partisanship/polarization that virtually DEFINES the way most of us do our “political thinking” these days. Kudos to you.

    • ziggy zoggy

      Trayvon Martin was an attempted murderer and worthless piece of $hit. He got what he deserved.,

  • Donald Joy

    It’s not a “stand-your-ground” case, and never was. The media has been misreporting it from day one. It always has been a traditional self-defense doctrine case. If you want to know why, ask me.

    • mamapjs

      Just in case there are libs lurking here who don’t know, what is obvious about the news media misreporting this as a SYG case is that they are after Florida’s SYG law. They are trying to MAKE it a SYG case, even though it’s clearly self-defense, in order to indict the law itself. This is yet another gun-grabbing attempt.

  • ConradCA

    David,

    It’s clear that you haven’t paid any attention to the facts of the case as presented in the trial. As the state has presented it’s case they have proven that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in self defense. Next time, please take the time to learn the facts about the issue before writing your column.

  • Alleena

    If you do a web search, you will find that Skittles is part of a street drug called lean, and that Trayvon Martin had been taking lean for months before his death. If you also search images, you will find that the innocent looking Trayvon pictured above was long gone. Please check out the images of Trayvon Martin just before he died. He’s an angry young man with both middle fingers raised.

  • CAStr8talk

    Having carefully observed the background when watching the video of Zimmerman walking the police through the incident, I saw at least a dozen places where Trayvon Martin could have hidden around the scene of the altercation. Including a bush plenty big enough to hide behind in the direction Zimmerman said Martin came from. Remember, it happened after dark in the rain, which means it was even easier for Martin to hide while he laid in wait.

    As for Martin innocently walking home from the convenience store, he had all the makings for lean or tuss in his pocket except the couch syrup. Robitussin will do for that in a pinch.

  • hippiepooter

    Just when I thought it’s not possible for Mr Horowitz to go higher in my personal estimation, he proves me wrong! The reporting I’ve seen in right wing intermedia, there is a real palpable sense of a right wing herd mentality willing an acquital.

    I’m glad – relieved – for the sake of conservative honour that Mr Horowitz has slammed the brakes on that, although I fear that the right wing herd has got such momentum it’s going to go careening into a ravine no matter what.

    One bone of contention I would have with Mr Horowitz’s article is that the only reason Trayvon Martin didn’t have an arrest record at least was because of the policies of Miami Dade Police Chief Hurley.

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/police-buried-trayvons-criminal-history/

    One of the reasons Trayvon Martin was suspended from school was because he was caught with burglary equipment and woman’s jewellery he couldn’t account for. According to the report above, one of the detectives who interviewed Zimmerman was instrumental in concealing this.

    • T.A.

      That’s right. It is very possible that Trayvon looked suspicious for very good reason. He may have been casing the neighborhood for a vulnerable house to rob. We don’t know that, but it’s quite a coincidence that he apparently has been a burglar in the past.

  • TopAssistant

    Let me see if I have this correct. When I see pictures of GZ, his head is bloody on the front and back. TM did not have beat marks but did a hole in his body. This tells me up front TM had to be providing GZ with a beating. And, if it was me, I would have also shot him in self-defense.
    Now David, disarming someone is not the answer and it appears self-defense not a Stand Your Ground Law issue.

  • Bob Honiker

    Just as soon as Martin punched Zimmerman he was no longer “guiltless of any crime”. The crime was compounded with each punch, and every time Zimmerman’s head hit the concrete.

    Trayvon should have taken the chip on his shoulder home, and put it to bed.

    • TopAssistant

      Bob: I agree! I have been in a lot of fights in my life and Zimmerman was getting hammered. How bad would it have gotten for him if he did not have a gun?

      • Bob Honiker

        You cannot punch someone and beat on them because they hurt your feelings or call you names or look at you funny. I’m aware that it’s the way things are done in some neighborhoods, but it won’t be tolerated elsewhere. People don’t have to put up with it and in Florida and some other states they have the right to effective self defense.

  • Billiam

    Why 2nd degree murder instead of an easier charge of,say, involuntary manslaughter? Politics. First they make Zimmerman magically white, then play the race card. Oh, and let us not forget the evil gun. Zimmerman should be found not guilty of 2nd degree murder. He has some responsibility in this, of course. Second degree murder? No. The prosecution over reached because of political pressure. They deserve to have their collective asses handed to them on a platter. People also need to tell race pimps like Jackson and Sharpton to go pimp somewhere else.

  • Michael Geer

    I have been an avid follower of David’s work. This article stuns me. Flat out stuns me. I am going to have rethink my support of him. I’m … flabbergasted. Okay, I’ve thought it over.

    Goodbye, David. I don’t know who got to you …

    • T.A.

      Is it so hard to respectfully disagree?

      I appreciate that conservatives think independently rather than being locked into a herd mentality like the liberals.

      • ConradCA

        When there is no evidence of guilt. Every fact from the trial supports Zimmerman’s innocence. When the lead investigator says that Zimmerman’s statement was supported in every significant respect. Only the ignorant, liars and brain damaged could believe that Zimmerman is guilty.

      • BAW

        I can’t speak for Mr. Geer but to me this isn’t a simple difference of opinion. Horowitz starts by assigning a mindset to “most conservatives” that I find offensive. I know I did not jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman was innocent only that the mob mentality of the left was in full view once again. Nor have I determined that he is in fact innocent “reacting to that injustice” but rather based on the facts.

        Worse still, in support of his “false narrative” he uses nonsense, feelings, and misstatements while exhibiting a lack of familiarity with facts, the law, and reality.

        For me, it suggests an mindset that I completely reject. Which in turn, discredits him rather thoroughly.

      • JamesMc

        He didn’t “respectfully” disagree. He presented a false choice argument. There’s conservatives like him, then there’s those darned hard headed reactionary conservatives.

        He starts by assuming wrongness on ZImmerman’s part against the “innocent” Martin then makes an argument against SYG. It seems that Horowitz shapes his opinion on the guilt or innocence of the parties from his opinion on self-defense law. There is little factual basis in his opinion on their guilt. The 3 big “lies” are just a litany of lame talking points from the left. His opinion is based on his feelings about Conceal Carry, so he comes off as just as partisan in his beliefs as the liberal lynch mob he initially decries.

  • Jeff Ludwig

    This article shows an intellectual honesty that David Horowitz has that lifts him above other social critics. My guess is that Zimmerman will be found guilty of a lesser charge than 2nd degree murder, and I think that total acquittal and exoneration would be a miscarriage of justice. D.H.’s analysis brought out quite a few facts that I was unaware of, and reflects a nuanced view worthy of a wise,informed, and righteous man. D.H. , in my opinion, worthy of all three adjectives, although I’m quite sure that he’s not looking for my compliments or anyone else’s for that matter. Thank you for this article.

    • ConradCA

      What facts do you base your guess on? I have paid close attention to the trial and the evidence prevented by the state. The state proved that Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin in self defense.

      It is a crime that Obama and the progressive fascists destroyed Zimmerman’s life in order to lie his way into power for a second time.

  • Blake hitler

    I sense more “peaceful” monkey riots after a not guilty verdict similar to the Rodney king riots. better stock up on bananas to quell their rage

  • oldironsides

    Everything in this case, in my opinion, rests upon the Forensics Report and I have followed all the reporting and haven’t read about it being presented in court by the prosecutor. Were there powder burns found on Trayvon Martin’s clothing that would indicate the shot was fired at close range? And what about the angle of the bullet wound? If Martin was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, it would almost have been at point blank range. And I also wish someone would publish a current photo of Trayvon. He was not the little boy that most publications have shown him to be. One estimate was he was 6′ 2″ tall.

    • ConradCA

      The Forensic Report is irrelevant to this case. Zimmerman and the persecution both agree that Zimmerman shot Martin from close range. No one knows or can tell at exactly what distance. What is at dispute is whether the shooting was in self defense. The persecution claims that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon though the evidence that they presented to prove their claim supports Zimmerman’s innocence.

      • mamapjs

        One area where the forensic report is important is that it demonstrates that Trayvon’s shirt was several inches away from his chest when the gun fired. The only thing that could have done that is gravity… ie: Martin was on top leaning over Zimmerman at the time of the shooting, just as the single eye-witness said.

  • MannieP

    Have you reviewed the evidence? Have you followed the trial?

    There was never any evidence of Zimmerman’s guilt. After the persecution [sic] has rested, there is even less evidence of his guilt.

    Prejudging? I think not.

  • patricia

    David H,this case is not SYG? Is he lost in a fight about laws in FL or the Zimmerman case? GZ is saying he was in fear of his life,self-defense . It’s a clear case of self defense David.

    • ConradCA

      Sorta hard to understand what your saying but I will try.

      The reason SYG is not applicable to this case is that SYG states that you don’t have to flee in order to defend yourself. Zimmerman was pinned to the ground by Trayvon and was unable flee. It was ordinary self defense that justified his shooting of Trayvon.

      • patricia

        I meant, David talks about SYG in this case. I agree it is not about SYG. I agree with you, funny how you thought I didn’t think this was a case about self defense.

        • ConradCA

          This statement would have been better with out the ?:

          David H,this case is not SYG?

          Furthermore, this statement is confusing:

          Is he lost in a fight about laws in FL or the Zimmerman case?

  • Tipper Top

    Mr. Horowitz makes a terrible assumption. That being that all Republicans suffer being low information voters who listen only to talking heads and do no further investigation as to the facts of the case. He cites several instances wherein he says Zimmerman is not to be trusted. However, aside from the very iffy target of Stand your Ground laws being covered in class, called something else all those years ago, none of what Mr. Horowitz ascribes as being evidence of Zimmerman’s untruthfulness has been presented to the jury, as of this date. And, I’ve been watching, so I can say Mr. Horowitz is simply assuming while the facts don’t stand up to his scrutiny. Assumptions are not facts sir – ask Dr. Bao – LOL. Maybe he needs to put that into his assumption mix and decide again if one size fits all when it comes to the voting public especially when speaking of Republicans.

    • BAW

      I find Horowitz’s most egregious assumption to be that conservatives all jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was innocent. I don’t think “we” generally did. I know I didn’t. I just jumped to the conclusion that a lynch mob had formed and that was wrong. My “knee jerk” reaction, while waiting for the facts, was to stand against the mob.

  • keyesforpres

    Mr. Horowitz, I would like to remind you that people have DIED from ONE blow to the head.

  • tickletik

    Thank you for bringing to me (and others) the other side of this issue in a way that is rational and sane. I am sad though, because I wonder who we can believe at this point.

    • Tipper Top

      If you cannot listen to the facts presented in a case and approach that evidence with an open mind and find, within your own mind, what is rational and what is not, we can thank our lucky starts you are not on the jury.

      If you need Mr. Horowitz to explain reality, then indeed you have issues.

    • keyesforpres

      Go to the RIGHTSCOOP and look back over the friend’s testimony.

  • myforest40

    I appreciate D.H.’s perspective. But I only agree that conservatives should not be to quick to judge before the facts come out in the trial, and especially to not be too quick to react in opposite fashion to the bigoted knee-jerk positions that the Left have vomited out.

    • JamesMc

      One big problem with your perspective about being quick to judgement, the prosecution has already rested it’s case. It’s argument and requisite proof are all there is to support it. It hasn’t even come close to proving a case, and ironically, it has even barely presented reasonable doubt about the defense’s case. It’s a farce. A sham trial that shouldn’t have been prosecuted.

  • BAW

    “But just because a lynch mob has formed to condemn Zimmerman in advance of the facts, does not mean one must conclude that Zimmerman is innocent of Trayvon Martin’s death.”

    So was it the author himself who had the poor judgement to do that? It wasn’t me. I don’t know who did.

    The only thing I concluded, in advance of the facts, was that the press and others had assumed an all too familiar “lynch mob” position. That was and is always wrong, regardless of the facts.

  • LindaRivera

    WND.COM: Rumblings of ‘lynchings’ over Trayvon verdict
    ‘Threats that some supporters are making are absolutely chilling’

    But a number of bloggers and watchers say there are not-so-subtle rumblings of violence developing.

    On the Mr. Conservative blog, Twitter threats were reproduced in abundance.

    “If Zimmerman don’t go to jail ill kill him for $20,” said one.

    “Gimme me tha pistol ill kill Zimmerman myself,” said another.

    “If George Zimmerman win I’m gonna kill a fat white boy dat look lik George Zimmerman I swear,” said a third.

    “This is despicable and seriously frightening,” wrote blogger Kristin
    Tate. “There is no way this would be tolerated if the threats from
    whites were against a black man.”…

    The blog reported thousands were threatening to riot should Zimmerman not be determined guilty by a jury.

    “In addition to hundreds of racist, disturbing tweets, there are
    several Facebook pages dedicated to promoting the murder of George
    Zimmerman,” Tate wrote. “One of those pages even urges riots if he is
    not found guilty for the murder of Trayvon Martin.

    One of the postings states: “Let’s flex our muscle!. What, you scared?”…
    http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/rumblings-of-lynchings-over-trayvon-verdict/

  • Charles

    Well, I guess it is ok to attack someone for following you, instead of letting the police take care of it. And, I guess you are suppose to be on the edge of death before you use deadly force to save yourself. jeeezzzzz. Who is this idiot Horowitz???

    • Progressives Rule

      The WannaBeCopCoward did a lot more than “follow” the unarmed 17 yr old boy.
      What RIGHT did the Wanna Be Cop Coward have to follow and question ANYBODY? NONE!
      His injuries show he was not “pummeled” or beaten. For one there wasn’t enough time. Second, experts testified those minor injuries on the Coward’s head could have been the result of only 3 contacts with the ground.
      .
      Morons like you believe the Coward’s story. The facts and evidence presented do not support his story. But, I guess facts don’t matter to pukes like you.
      Carry on.

      • Charles

        He has ever right to follow a suspicious acting person, while reporting it to the police. He did not question anyone. Yes, his injuries are consistent with multiple hits.
        The fact is, Martin inflicted bodily harm on a man who in turn defended himself for anything more. I am sure, in your moronic little pea brain. it would be fine if MArtin had beat GZ to death.
        What an idiot.

        • Progressives Rule

          Martin’s friend testified that someone approached him and challenged him “WHILE SHE WAS ON THE PHONE”! The coward was the attacker.
          .
          Martin was using self defense after the Coward attacked him!.
          .
          The Coward had no intention of simply “reporting this suspicious” person to police. This one he was gonna make sure “didn’t get away.
          .
          His racist, hate filled remarks will suffice for 2nd degree murder.
          .
          I wish Martin had run away once he decked the Coward. He had no idea the Coward had a gun. Zimmerman will pay, one way or the other. Either he goes to jail, where he belongs, or he becomes Casey Anthony 2.

          • mamapjs

            Martin’s friend? You talking about that silly girl who thinks it’s perfectly OK to call someone a “creepy-a@@ cracker”??? I guaran-dam-tee you that’s a vicious racial epithet, that it is meant to be vicious, and meant to be a racial slander.

          • keyesforpres

            She did NOT hear Zimmerman ask Martin anything. She was no longer on the phone with him.
            Did you NOT see her testimony? It was all over the website RIGHTSCOOP. That witness could not even read the statement she supposedly wrote to police. She said should couldn’t read “cursive”. She LIED.

          • Progressives Rule

            Dee Dee testified: “An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.”

            Maybe you should read her testimony since your ears and memory are so lacking.
            http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-8-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

    • wildjew

      Doesn’t look like anyone is deleting your posts.

  • Charles

    So, I guess it is ok to physically attack someone who is following you, instead of calling the police. And I guess you are suppose to wait until you life is on the edge of death, before you defend yourself.
    Whis is this Horowitz fool?

  • Charles

    So, I guess it is ok to attack someone for following you, instead of calling the police. And, I guess you are suppose to wait until your life is on edge, before defending yourself. Yeah, right.

  • Charles

    Who keeps deleting my posts?

  • Charles

    I guess if you can THINK, and UNDERSTAND that you can defend yourself from attack, you are not allowed to post here. Because my posts keep disappearring. NAZIism.

    • T.A.

      Charles,

      Since there are thoughtful posts appearing on both sides of the issue, I don’t think censorship is the explanation.

    • mamapjs

      Charles, I see a whole string of posts by you. Sometimes these servers don’t immediately post or after posting cause a post to temporarily disappear. It’s a Discus glitch.

      • Charles

        I didn’t see anything. they just keep disappearing.

        • mamapjs

          I see six posts. It’s a Discus glitch.

          • Charles

            Sorry. I did not mean for that to happen. I could see my replies to others, but my Posts kept disappearring.

  • Hit Manfan

    Horowitz is another false intellectual who lacks original thought. I read (or tried to) Radical Son when it first came out and the best thing that I can say about it is that it’s boring, poorly written, self indulgent pablum. He proves my point in the article above.

    What exactly does it take to “Provoke” an attack by a nice well raised 17 year old? The attack isn’t an “alleged attack” as Martin has the broken nose and cuts that prove it happened. A credible witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and throwing punches. Martin was the aggressor.

    This article is written by a man who likely has never faced anything more dangerous than a hangnail. “Aimed it away from his chest”? Try to get that load of crap put in place in any police academy. If the injuries that Zimmerman sustained were really “very superficial” would it be unkind of me to wish those same injuries to Horowitz and under similar circumstance only without Horowitz being armed and is his wish.

    It is always unfortunate when a 17 year old looses their life. However, Trevon Martin attacked someone who had the ability to defend himself with lethal force and did. Horowitz wishes the stand your ground law only applied to home invasion (as opposed to having to abandon your home?). I wonder if all of the people who’s lives have been saved by this law would agree but it so happens that this case isn’t being tried under stand your ground.
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/justice/florida-zimmerman-defense

    This article is a weak product of a juvenile mind. If this is representative of the best that front page mag has to offer then both mag and writer can be safely ignored in the future.

    • wildjew

      There is an opinion piece (“A Bullet through the heart”) on today’s Washington Post written by Kathleen Parker, a token conservative who writes for WaPo. Parker writes about the conflicting testimony of the two mothers both claiming the voice crying for help was their son. If the voice crying out for help which ceased after the gun shot was Martin’s, would it hurt the defense? How would you respond to the following reader who addresses Parker and the largely Republican right?

      MackinOz wrote:
      6:59 PM EDT
      Republican Barbie wants us all to know she is anatomically correct!

      How about this question, Republican Mummy? Does lying run in the family?

      Zimmerman had a gun and he was obviously ready to use it – he had a round in the chamber of a gun that has no safety catch. Why would he be screaming for help? If you had a loaded gun on your hip and you were in a fistfight, why would you be screaming for help?

      And what we know for sure is that Zimmerman never said anything like, “Back off, I have a gun!”

      Zimmerman’s version is that when Trayvon saw he had a gun, that made him MORE aggressive! What garbage.

      The only reason Zimmerman had the guts to confront Trayvon in the first place was because he knew he had a concealed pistol on his hip with a round in the chamber and all he had to do was pull the trigger.

      Zimmerman got himself in a fight and then, instead of giving the other guy the chance to stop, Zimmerman just shot him dead. The guy is a fool, a coward and a murderer.

      • glennd1

        “had a round in the chamber of a gun that had no safety catch” – what a moron. Many guns are sold without safeties today – the real world experience is that they don’t make guns any safer. In fact, they only make them harder to use in a sudden emergency like the one Zimmerman was subjected to. So yeah, take your dingbatry and focus it on something you understand. Otherwise, shut your ignorant mouth. With each comment you make on this thread you only demonstrate how little you know and how flawed your reasoning is.

        • wildjew

          What about the rest of the post?

      • Kevin Stowell

        The only handguns I’ve ever seen without a “safety catch” (did you mean safety?) are revolvers. That’s why, when carrying them, it behooves you to leave a chamber empty. I’ve never seen an autoloader without one.

      • keyesforpres

        He didn’t confront Martin. Zimmerman got out of the car to try to find a street sign so he could tell the operator where he was. The reason Zimmerman was yelling for help was because he did NOT want to shoot Martin. He was probably hoping some ppl would come out of their condos and yell at Martin to stop and hope that would chase Martin off. Think about it.

    • Conniption Fitz

      Well-raised 17 year old? Far, far from it.

      Those guilty of killing Trayvon are his parents, the black gangsta culture, the media and entertainment industry, the street justice proponents (NBPP, Farrakhan, Sharpton, et al), his peers who cheer violence and hurting whites for fun, the liberals and race industry who enable criminal and immoral behavior by their benefits and entitlement programs and policies, and finally, the direct, cumulative and interactive effects of the drugs Trayvon had consumed and finally, Trayvon himself for his choices and values.

  • 15 watts

    What I think I’m understanding is that George Zimmerman and his defense team opted out of using SYG and decided to go to a Jury trial without the opportunity of going before a judge and perhaps not having to face a charge of 2nd degree murder. So self defense for the average person means that you were not the aggressor, and you could not safely get away from an attack without using deadly force. Why was the SYG law discussed when the jury cannot take it into consideration?

    • ConradCA

      SYG can be used to in some cases. It’s that in this case it’s irrelavent because Zimmerman had no way of retreating because he was pinnned in place by Trayvon as he assaulted Zimmerman.

  • Nomadic100

    I have watched almost the entirety of the trial. Zimmerman may have lied about how much money was in his account but it is less evident that he lied about being ignorant of “stand your ground” law in Florida, given recent testimony by his professors. But those issues are trivial.

    All credible testimony in the trial to this point is consistent with Zimmerman’s testimony as presented via videotaped recordings presented to the jury. Judge Nelson is clearly biased in her rulings and it seems that many people want to convict Zimmerman out of political correctness (“white Hispanic”), or to avoid anticipated riots. To expect racial riots if Zimmerman is acquitted may be realistic, and, if riots occur, then the expectation of riots will be shown NOT to be due to a racist attitude but, rather, on a realistic appraisal of what a segment of the African American population will do.

    The jury should not take any concerns about ramifications of their judgment into account but, rather, make a determination on the basis of the evidence presented.

  • http://www.quidblog.com/ PeterP

    Here’s the problem I have with the Zimmerman case: 40 cops and a prosecutor evaluated the evidence and decided it was insufficient to arrest and charge Zimmerman with a crime. Only when black race agitators like Al Sharpton threatened unrest if Zimmerman not charged, did State arrest and charge Zimmerman. That was a politically motivated decision and makes this entire prosecution unjust and suspect.

  • http://www.quidblog.com/ PeterP

    David, if he admits he has second thoughts he’s admitted that he didn’t have to confront and shoot TM and that would devastate his case. Would have been suicide.

  • brigin

    Just because black ppl are on the rampage slaughtering, raping, and killing white ppl by the thousands all across the country. And white crime against black ppl is almost non-existent according to FBI stats, we still need to wait to see the evidence before judging.

  • AmericaFirst

    Notwithstanding the fact that Zimmerman shouldn’t even be on trial, I truly hope he gets acquitted. I want the average White American to watch in horror as hordes of savage negros around the country begin doing what they do best: looting, pillaging, raping, and murdering. Time to wake up and understand that these hominids have no place living as “equals” in advanced White societies. Jefferson knew this. Lincoln knew this. But leave it to the jews and their traitorous liberal understudies to push “civil rights,” “diversity,” and “tolerance.” These are the ingredients destroying America and Whites of European descent across the globe, and you better believe that the jew is the one stirring the pot.

    • UCSPanther

      Hey mods: Can we ban this worm?

      • Gee

        Removed by author

      • AmericaFirst

        Oy! Zhe truth! Ve must ban it before zhe goyim wake up! A shanda, it is!

        • keyesforpres

          Jews are not the problem. The folks you speak of are secular commies. Their Jewish religion has nothing to do with it. They are secular commies who just happen to have a Jewish surname.

          • AmericaFirst

            Is that right? Well how about neocons like Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams, et al., who have bankrupted America and tarnished its reputation on endless wars for Israel? Or the disproportionate number of jewish Wall Street CEOs, Fed/World Bank/IMF players, and Hollywood moguls who are either plundering the world economy and polluting the culture? Are you gonna tell me that they’re “secular commies” too? Or that the ethnic jews in the Bolshevik leadership weren’t primarily motivated because of the perceived “anti-Semitism” directed at them by the royalists? Whether it’s the jewish religion or the jewish ethnicity is beside the point. The fact of the matter is that jews, on the whole, are the most corrosive, vindictive, unscrupulous, and dangerous group of people in history. Learn more here: http://vnnforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=89

  • 1gravity

    It is clear that Mr. Horowitz does not understand the case, and that there is no one at Front Page willing to tell him so. Mr. Zimmerman is on trial because the political elites are not willing to stand up to the black thug culture.

    • ConradCA

      I think your mistaken. Zimmerman was charged because Obama and the progressive fascists needed to scare blacks into voting for them in 2012.

      They used this case to prey on the failings of the Black community so they would vote the right way.

      First they manufactured lies about this case to scare them. A photo of Zimmerman carefully chosen/edited to hide his injuries, followed by lies that Zimmerman was not injured. Then a carefully edited 911 call to make them think that Zimmerman was a racist. These lies supported by more lies about Zimmerman hunting down a poor black child returning from the store for candy.

      Then Obama says “If he had a son he would look like Trayvon.” and they force this unwinable case to trial to tell blacks that the progressives had their backs.

      They destroyed an innocent man’s life in their quest for power. Zimmerman was Trayvon’s victim and now he is the victim of the progressive fascists. This is the same stuff the Dems use to do to blacks in the Jim Crow South. They really haven’t changed much since then.

  • Conniption Fitz

    The officers who interviewed Zimmerman gave a different picture of Zimmerman and his mindset about the shooting:

    Officer Serino: “We now have a video of the fight.”

    Zimmerman: “Thank God! I hope they got it all!”

    In the interview with the female police officer, Zimmerman said, “It’s always wrong to kill another person.”

    The officer had to explain that it is not immoral if you have to kill someone to save your own life.

    The gun was purchased, not because of the burglaries, but because of the pit bulls that had attacked someone in their neighborhood.
    All this is direct testimony backed up by recordings.

  • Conniption Fitz

    Mr. Horowitz, this is one of the very few times I’ve strongly disagreed with you.

    No one with killing and vigilantism on their mind calls the police first and identifies themselves.
    No one with racist hate defends a homeless black person against the son of a policeman.
    No one with anything to hide would have told Officer Serino that he hope the tape they found ‘got it all’.

    This is not a Stand Your Ground case – Zimmerman was not standing and was not able to stand.

    This is not a Duty to Retreat Case – Zimmerman was overpowered, pinned down and could not
    retreat.

    This is a Right to Self-Defense to SAVE Your Life Case.

    And, this is a No Other Recourse Case, because one would come to help him!
    Zimmerman was out of options. Martin was threatening to kill him and reaching for his gun.

    And this has become a Gun Control, Racial hate-mongering, Election Year desperate to win Florida, Politics and Money case!

    This is a Leftist Liars Political Circus Case!

  • http://tinatrent.com/ Tina Trent

    Good points, but limiting SYG to homes makes no sense. There are other ways to reform the law.

    But they won’t happen because the Fl Bar is in the pocket of leftist, pro-criminal race activists.

  • Donald Joy

    I’m normally one of David Horowitz’ biggest fans, but on this one he is late to the party and hasn’t even acquainted himself with the case. Unfortunate that he is spreading nonsense and helping to railroad an innocent man.

    • Donald Joy

      For example, someone please inform Horowitz that you don’t have to have a single scratch or a hair on your head out of place to be justified in the use of deadly force to defend yourself. Someone swings a baseball bat at your head and misses, shoot them before they swing again. Someone distracts you in an attempt to be able to grab for your gun, shoot them before they get it and use it against you. Zimmerman’s injuries show that he was in close contact with someone intending to not only harm him, but that that person was close enough to use Z’s gun against him ,as Z describes, and there is no evidence to contradict him. All that is in addition to the fact that despite what Horowitz says, Martin WAS armed with a deadly weapon–the sidewalk against Zimmerman’s head. Was Zimmerman supposed to wait and see if another or more blows finished him off?

      Furthermore, Horowitz claims that Martin was “guiltless of any crime” and had “no criminal record.” I advise Horowitz to realize that Zimmerman’s suspicion that Martin was up to no good, apparently casing his next burglary target, is credible due to the fact that Martin DID have a record–Miami-Dade school police documents obtained through FOIA requests show a pattern of Martin’s involvement in burglary and breaking into off-limits areas, destruction of property, drugs, and violence. Martin’s social media trail indicates more violence and drug dealing. Zimmerman’s statement to police dispatch that Martin appeared to be on drugs was borne out by the toxicology report. Furthermore, Martin’s social media accounts evidence involvement in the habitual use of “lean,” the intoxicating concoction (popular in the gangsta-rap subculture) of cough syrup-based codeine, fruit-flavored drinks such as Arizona watermelon drink, and candy such as Jolly Ranchers or Skittles.

      The two police investigators assigned to the case took the witness stand and said that no inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s interviews are significant; that he is telling the truth, with only minor discrepancies that are typical of anyone who relates the details of a traumatic event multiple times.

      The police dispatcher testified that Zimmerman’s remarks and expletives on the call are typical of concerned citizens who call to report suspicious activity–therefore, they do not support the 2nd degree murder charge requirement of ill-will, hatred, and a depraved mind.

      David Horowitz should get up to speed on all of this, as well as the trend of young blacks’ playing “the knockout game,” aka “knockout king,” aka “polar bear hunting.” Random, innocent whites and asians are being attacked and even killed when black males across the land suddenly punch them as hard as they can and beat them down, for fun and to put their self-made videos of the rampages on the internet. Martin was of that violent. criminal sub-culture, and his reaction to a neighborhood watch volunteer trying to keep an eye on him (dispatcher to Zimmerman: “Tell me if he does anything else,” and “keep an eye on him”) aligns exactly with that mentality/behavior (as thoroughly documented by Colin Flaherty in his book, “White Girl Bleed a Lot–the return of racial violence and why the media cover it up” and his articles on World Net Daily).

      As to Zimmerman not recalling SYG (which doesn’t even apply in this case) doctrine being taught to him by Capt. Carter at Seminole State, it is plausible that, being a new legal doctrine in Florida at the time of the class, the nickname “stand-your-ground” was not yet in use during the course, so that when Hannity asked Zimmerman about it, it just didn’t ring a bell.

      David, please pull this piece down, because you’re aiding and abetting the Leftist, racially-fueled lynch mob in this case. Zimmerman never should have been charged, because as Alan Dershowitz has repeatedly said, there isn’t even a shred of probable cause in the charging affidavit. Angela Corey is another Mike Nifong, and you are acting like another mainstream media useful idiot of the dishonest Left.

      • krinks

        Amazing isn’t it how Libs like David would reduce our ability to defend ourselves down to saying “please don’t”.

        • ¡Jorge Libre!

          I don’t know how detached they have to be from reality to think that defenselessness = a peaceful society.

  • NaMoNai

    I believe that the Soviet penetration of the black civil rights movement and political life in the black community generally was one of their most successful influence operations.

    And I think it is no coincidence that for decades there has scarcely been a single black “civil rights leader” who was not also a committed leftist.

    I think that the mass hysterics around the Zimmerman case, like the OJ Simpson case and many others is a demonstration of how very successful the communists were.

    And they still mostly have the upper hand in these matters.

  • http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/ M. Simon

    How old was Tray in the picture you use David H. ? Perpetuating another myth are you? Front Page used to be better than that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bryan-Schmick/100000836170959 Bryan Schmick

      Point of fact. That wasn’t the innocent pre teen used by the MSM

  • wildjew
  • krinks

    Sorry David but if I was questioned by a stranger at night wondering why I was there it would not result in my beating him and getting shot as a result. It would result in me telling him to go bleep himself and then going on my merry way. If Martin did the same Martin is still alive today. Your mindless liberalism is showing.

  • Jeff Norman

    Zimmerman’s inconsistencies/inaccuracies could be attributable to dishonesty, poor memory, confusion or imperfect choice of words. Or some combination of the aforementioned. David Horowitz offers no insight when he simply declares it’s dishonesty and dishonesty only.

    How could neighborhood watchmen be banned from carrying firearms? Couldn’t armed individuals who wish to behave as watchmen behave, easily circumvent such a prohibition by simply refraining from calling themselves watchmen?

  • gfmucci

    Horowitz is waaaay off base on this one.

    First of all, the “stand your ground” defense isn’t even part of this case. So that is a red herring right off.

    Second, Horowitz is chipping away at our second amendment by his suggestion that neighborhood patrols should be unarmed. If Zimmerman was unarmed he would likely be dead. What is wrong with patrolling your own neighborhood, especially knowing that there have been thuggish break ins and robberies? The police are unable to do such patrols. How much of our personal protection should we defer to “the government?” All of it? Nuts to that! Those of us who walk around our neighborhoods, whether to observe the landscaping or to watch for thugs, must maintain the right to protect themselves. It invites crime when you discourage neighborhood watch by making the watchers defenseless. That is craziness!

    Horowitz is exposing his leftist/progressive roots with his proposal to neuter our rights of self defense..

    • ziggy zoggy

      I think he is out of touch. Ivory tower, and all that.

  • NAHALKIDES

    David does have a good point here in that we Conservatives can’t be
    sure that Zimmerman is innocent – the most critical question in fixing
    the responsibility between Martin and Zimmerman is who started the
    fight, and we don’t know the answer, nor are we likely to. If Zimmerman
    started the fight and was then overpowered by Martin, he will likely
    get away with murder. This isn’t likely, but it is possible. If Martin
    started the fight, Zimmerman was almost certainly justified. As for Zimmerman’s interview and other behavior, he strikes me as simply rather stupid. But stupidity isn’t a crime.

    Legally, the case does indeed look to be open-and-shut: the prosecution hasn’t
    come close to proving murder, nor is it likely to unless it has some
    evidence that by some miracle hasn’t been leaked. It can’t prove that
    Martin didn’t start the fight, and Zimmerman’s injuries seem serious
    enough to me to justify the use of lethal force. If someone had broken
    my nose and was still pounding my head into the concrete, and I hadn’t
    been able to fight back effectively up to that point, I’d reach for a
    gun or knife, too.

    I think David’s other suggested take-aways are far weaker: I see no reason why joining a neighborhood watch group should cause someone to lose his basic right to carry a firearm, nor why stand-your-ground should not be as applicable in the street as in the home. By the way, the stand-your-ground law is not
    likely to be very important in the trial since if Zimmerman’s account is
    true, plain old self-defense would apply.

  • Robert Govan

    Sandy Hook hoax George Zimmerman hoax. I have great news for We The People. We have the nwo EXPOSED and on the run right here. Wellaware1.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bryan-Schmick/100000836170959 Bryan Schmick

    ..with no criminal record… Now we know that he would have a criminal record except the school district police (what other school district has its’ own police force) tried to cover it up that young Martin was caught with a bag full of stolen jewelry.

  • Andy_Lewis

    Why, yes it is open and shut.

    This has been another in the series Simple Answers to Really Easy Questions.

  • brianmacker

    What a poorly researched article.

  • Black Racism

    The news media largely think it their job to create more animosity for whites (race hoaxes are useful to create more animosity for whites)

  • SparkleSalt

    Horowitz says the Stand Your Ground Law ought to be rewritten because of this case. But that law does not even apply in this case, because Zimmerman was being pinned down by Trevon and thus could not flee. In other words, Zimmerman had no ground either to defend or to flee. So this is a straight up traditional self-defense case, no need to conflate it with Stand Your Ground or any other such ancillary law.

    • ¡Jorge Libre!

      Exactly!

  • landru

    Mr. Horowitz, you lose credibility when you claim that Zimmerman lacks credibility because he used the phrase “popped up from behind the bushes” to describe Martin basically appearing suddenly. There are in fact hedges behind all the condos and hedges throughout the neighborhood. It should be obvious that he was not claiming to have actually seen Martin rise up from a behind a bush, but was just using the term loosely to describe someone appearing suddenly behind him.
    Also, regarding the Hannity interview, if you recall, Hannity asked him not whether he was aware of the self defense laws, but “had you ever heard of something called stand your ground before this”. The question was about the phrase. The lecturer did not actually testify that the phrase was part of the lecture in any significant way, and there was nothing in any written materials produced to demonstrate it. This may sound like splitting hairs, but discussing the laws (where the phrase is not used) and using that phrase in the class in a way that it could be assumed Zimmerman should remember it are not the same thing. It was never actually established in the lecturer’s testimony that the phrase was ever even used in the class at all.

  • landru

    “What we do know is that a young man who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead.”
    Had the police arrived thirty or so seconds before they did and found Martin on top of Zimmerman and pummeling him and stopped it, he would have been charged and convicted of a felony. The fact that he was not using a separate weapon, but only his hands and fists, does not render him harmless. Your comment is ridiculous.
    There seems to be a bizarre belief amongst some people that a person cannot inflict “grave bodliy harm” with his hands and fists, and that if a person is subjected to an assault using them, deference and care for the attackers safety must be shown, that the person under attack is supposed to consciouly take steps to avoid seriously hurting the person who is attacking them. Again ridiculous.

  • Eric Hutchison

    I never have believed Zimmerman is entirely innocent. In fact he’s probably guilty of at least “manslaughter” here because a death occurred that didn’t have to. I’m just not convinced that Zimmerman committed a “murder” that he wanted to happen and that he should go to prison for the rest of his life.

    What’s still most disturbing about this whole affair is the role that the far-left media and race-baiters like Al Sharpton have played in this case becoming what it is.

    • Wrabble

      “he’s probably guilty of at least “manslaughter” here because a death occurred that didn’t have to. ”

      So you disagree completely with any notion of self-defense under any condition?

  • WW4

    Lord, save us from dimwits who after ONE article in which they disagree with the author’s opinion declare him a “RINO” and closet liberal.

  • JDS

    The problem with this case is that the media skewered the facts from the start, causing many to now swing the other way in favour of Zimmerman. While I think that Zimmerman is a bit of a Barney Fife, I do believe he shot Martin after Martin attacked him. Martin is the one who uttered a racial epithet (if the prosecution’s witness is to be believed) while Zimmerman is the one who called the police. I don’t believe Zimmerman would have called the police if he were planning to kill someone, nor did he break his own nose or cut the back of his own head. The marks on Martin’s hands suggest he was the attacker. I personally believe both men were culpable for what happened that day, and would give more credibility to Martin feeling threatened if he had used his phone to call 911 instead of talking to that illiterate person who purportedly was his last phone call.

  • http://www.federaleagent86.blogspot.com/ Federale

    The facts are that Zimmerman’s story of self-defense has held up, but more importantly, the State has not presented any evidence, much less evidence proving beyond a reasonable doubt, his guilt.
    Zimmerman is innocent. The star witness was a racist black who was shown to be a liar. Other “witnesses” suddenly recalled facts that they never told the police, most of which were lies anyway.
    The one clear witness said Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman while punching him. Case closed. You can’t get around that.
    Even the stary lying witness of the prosecution admitted Trayvon used racist epitaths to describe Zimmerman. It is clear that Trayvon thought he was a tough guy and was going to do what many blacks enjoy doing, attacking white people.

  • bobrien2

    David Horowitz has always represented the worst of the conservative movement. Essentially David pays lip service to small government but is really a new fascist pro-state or neo-con. He’s now latched onto this case as a means of promoting a reduction of free (self-defense) and conceal carry. This advances the power of the state which is Horowitz’s true goal.

    The problem is, it’s clear he neither understands self-defense or conceal carry laws and barely has a grasp on the facts of the case.

    What a truly awful article, it’s clear the Horowitz is part of the dying breed on the right, rejected by the GOP, moderate conservatives, libertarians and the left.

  • James

    I don’t know… you’re being beaten and you’re supposed to aim away from his chest? While in the midst of a beating, does one have clear thoughts, or is your focus on survival?

    I don’t think that police aim to wound when they try to stop a beating, do they? I think police are taught to shoot for the chest…

    • Wrabble

      Aiming to wound only works in the movies.

      A firearm should never be fired at a person unless the shooter is willing to have the target die.

      Shooting in the arm or leg can lead to death. For example, if the femoral artery is hit, bleed-out can occur in 90 seconds or less.

      Center of mass, unless you’re an expert marksman like a military sharpshooter who can go for a head shot.

  • Dave Turson

    As with all of us, God will judge in the end. George Zimmerman says that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and went for it. Without other eye witnesses we must take his word.

  • Wrabble

    I know exactly what happened that night because I have been paying attention to the liberal media!

    9-year old Trayvon Martin was on his way home from choir practice and delivering hot meals to the elderly.

    He stopped to hold umbrellas for a Girl Scout Troop which was raising money for quadriplegic AIDS victims in Africa. After he helped the Girl Scouts, he then delivered 10 Golden Retriever puppies which were breach birth.

    That’s when George Zimmerman pulled up in his Hummer, on his way home from a White Hispanic KKK meeting. High on meth and shouting racist slogans, GZ saw TM and opened up with his twin roof-mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

    TM saved all the Girl Scouts and then went back to save the Golden Retriever puppies.

    GZ ran out of ammunition so he unholstered two Desert Eagle .44 magnum pistols and started firing at the puppies and TM.

    That’s when TM was hit in the back by 32 rounds of hollow-point, teflon-coated & explosive ammunition.

    With his last breaths, TM prayed for GZ and forgave him.

    Then GZ called his cop buddies who were at the KKK rally. They cleaned up the site and made the Girl Scouts and Golden Retrievers “disappear” in the Everglades so there would be no witnesses. They washed the blood from GZ’s jowls after he gnawed on TM’s still beating heart.

    It must be true! Justice for Trayvon (and his mother’s merchandising rights)!

    Oh yes, GZ is the current world champion for ALL schools of martial art and had just escaped from a mental institution for the criminally insane. A few years earlier, he was indicted for murder eight times but got off only because his father was a Supreme Court Justice.

  • James Riley

    Is David Horowitz seriously arguing that the _Zimmerman_ case should be used to further restrict the 2nd amendment? Arguing that “neighborhood watch” volunteers should not be allowed carry to carry firearms speaks to a mind seriously befuddled on the issues at hand. In many states, individuals are allowed, and even encouraged to carry firearms. Would it stand to reason that community volunteers, already trained to defend their community, would forfeit that right because they happen to be also helping law enforcement, and potentially risking their lives in the process?

    Horowitz should re-name his “freedom center” something else. He obviously hasn’t shed his ultra-leftist self. Fascist center?

    Truly disappointed and disgusted..

  • Darlene Cantey

    Button Line, Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. I have a questions about the UNEDITED 911 recording of Zimmmerman. When the Officer asked Ziimmerman if he was following Trevon, Zimmerman said yes (you can hear him running after Trevon). Anyway as Zimmerman slows down from runniing if TRUELY SOUNDS LIKE A GUN BEING COCKED Back. I heard that sound Twice. I’m just saying.. My question: What do you think the sounds are? Would someone please listen and let me know it I am alone. Thanks.

    • KATWINK

      I truly believe Zimmerman was following trayvon , because of prior events In the community, and wanted to make sure he not up to no good, why didnt trayvon call the police and. Report that someone is following me for no reason I live in thi community and I’m just on my way home from yet he store, or if he was such a nice kid and was not a punk at all like everyone claims , why wouldn’t he say excuse me sir stop,following me please I’m just trying to get home , I live in the community , and than call 911 say im being followed and im afraid im in danger and ask them to please stay on the phone till he gets home, or the cops arrive, but trayvon did not do that he got pissed that Zimmerman would not stop following him and attacked him bounced zimmermann head off the side walk and went to grab his gun, so I don’t believe. Zimmerman had a choice, and Zimmerman had called the police , I truly believe the only reason he follows trayvon is because in a prior incident , with a black youth staring into people’s windows in zimmermanns community got away when police arrived and later on came back and robbed the community, so even though Zimmerman should have stayed in his car , he didnt follow trayvon with the intent to hurt him, he did it with the intent to protect

    • KATWINK

      His community until the police arrived.

  • wentworthcheswell

    I know David Horowitz is smarter than this oped. What happens if you are getting robbed by gunpoint, should you just fall on the ground, hand over everything and let the person shoot you? or stand your ground and fight back and try to survive?…..maybe with this article, the “real” David Horowitz is now coming out and back to his roots as a Communist, progressive, after a stint as a “conservative” becoming rich from from “patriots” buying his books, now back to his roots of Communism and progressives and liberals attitudes that you shouldn’t defend yourself, just like in school, you get suspended if you defend yourself (let the principle defend you after your nose and neck are broken)…..let the govt take care of you, if they arrive in time that is before you die.

  • whowon

    I had no idea until I watched the trial. I did not jump to any conclusion before, none had any of my Conservative friends had either. Don’t paint is with the same brush as the fools who decided he was guilty without any facts.

  • paul_23

    When I first heard about this case, I was all set to throw the book at Zimmerman. My initial instinct as a Floridian who carries is that the order of the day is AVOID CONFRONTATION (and in that regard, Zimmerman did behave foolishly in following someone at night in a poorly lit area). Additionally, under Florida law you cannot initiate a confrontation and then use deadly force and claim self defense when things go poorly for you.

    In other words, my initial reaction was that Trayvon Martin was the one who had the right to stand his ground. My views changed as the evidence came out, and we got the full picture of just who George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin are / were. While I still maintain that it was foolish to get out and follow Trayvon in the first place- following is not inherently provocative under the law.

    Additionally, Zimmerman could not have foreseen that following Martin would lead to his death. Further, people with depraved minds don’t call the police, and don’t fire just one shot. I find Zimmerman’s account credible. It jives with most if not all of the physical and medical evidence, and it jives with Mr. Good’s testimony- the prosecution’s own witness.

    I’m still no fan of George Zimmerman. I don’t find what he did sensible or wise, but unreasonable, reckless, or without regard for human life? No. Sorry. That does not fit the bill.

    I believe, though I cannot prove, that Martin’s REAL phone call with Jeantel went more along the lines of going back and teaching that creepy a** cr***er a lesson- and emboldened, he did just that. Martin had slightly more than two minutes to travel the 100 yards to his town home- which means if he maintained the blistering pace of 1.7 mph (the average person walks 3 to 4 mph) which means if Martin wanted to, he could have been safely home. Ironically, if he was walking closer to the average pace- and with his 6’2″ frame, there’s no reason to believe he wasn’t at least average- he could have walked to Brandy Green’s townhouse and back to where the confrontation took place.

    Again, can’t prove it- but I find reasonable doubt to believe the prosecution’s claims. I think it’s possible, and if possible- I’d have to acquit. Simple as that.

  • http://rau.3littlefoxes.com/ LindaF

    I do have some concerns about your calling him a liar about that money – it is possible that the money was earmarked for his defense – in that case, he could not use it for bail. Without having more knowledge, it would be difficult to say more.

    Further, just in the obviously broken nose and multiple cuts, dripping blood on his head, I don’t believe that you can call the injuries “superficial”. Slamming someone’s head into concrete has a high risk of causing TBI – traumatic brain injury. Often, football players get up after having been hit into the ground, and go on to play the rest of the game. The damage doesn’t show up, often until years later.

    Could he have not shot Trayvon? Frankly, his judgement may well have been impaired from the beat-down he received. This could have led to him discharging his gun, causing death.

    But, what caused that possibly impaired judgement? Trayvon’s actions.

    So, no, I don’t think, BASED on the EVIDENCE shown during the trial, that he should be judged guilty of a crime. There just isn’t clear-cut evidence to support it.

  • KATWINK

    It’s interesting how because a black kid was killed ,everyone is up in arms it was not self defense, well if you look up the John white case in NY who is a Blackman that defended his son and killed a white kid, outside his home, he was found guilty on only minor charges and it was basically determined he acted in self defense, yet he left the safety of his own home and confronted the aggressor, when he could have locked the doors and called the police, but the kids outside the home were punks with intent to harm and he feared for his son and decided to take matters into his own hands ,i can understand his fear , but he could have stayed in the safety his home. but Zimmerman gets PHYSICALLY ATTACKED and his head pounded on the sidewalk and he is suppose to know the aggressor has no intent to kill him, bull ,if someone is attacking you they are intending to harm you and many people under those circumstances would think they were in a life threating position, and you should have a right to defend yourself.

  • KATWINK

    BTW on the John white case NY I need to clarify he was convicted of manslaughter and a weapons chargE, was sentenced , but than the governer , obsolved him after a short time served .most likely recognizing that although the guy made the wrong decision , he was actually in fear of his and his sons life.

  • KATWINK

    It’s interesting how because a black kid was killed ,everyone is up in arms it was not self defense, well if you look up the John white case in NY who is a Blackman that defended his son and killed a white kid, outside his home, he was found guilty on only minor charges and it was basically determined he acted in self defense, yet he left the safety of his own home and confronted the aggressor, when he could have locked the doors and called the police, but the kids outside the home were punks with intent to harm and he feared for his son and decided to take matters into his own hands ,i can understand his fear , but he could have stayed in the safety his home. but Zimmerman gets PHYSICALLY ATTACKED and his head pounded on the sidewalk and he is suppose to know the aggressor has no intent to kill him, bull ,if someone is attacking you they are intending to harm you and many people under those circumstances would think they were in a life threating position, and you should have a right to defend yourself.

  • talty

    You made some really good points… Then you said that neighborhood watch shouldn’t be allowed to conceal carry. Some places don’t even have police they have what are called Glock blocks because they don’t believe in living vicariously. They said these police suck and we’ll do it ourselves. Do you really think somebody trying to do a public service (not Zimmerman just the watch in general) should be limited in their ability to defend themselves? Nobody should have their 2nd amendment infringed.

  • chrismalllory

    So, Horowitz’s suggestion when you are having your head pounded against a sidewalk is to not shoot your attacker until you are about to be knocked unconscious and if you do shoot, don’t shoot the chest, stomach or head, try to wing ‘em.

    • Northpaw

      That troubled me too, David Horowitz a renowned debunker of political correctness and a patriot through and through sounding like a freaking leftist. He is wrong too about not allowing block watch captains to carry a gun, bad stuff David.

  • Jim Heller

    What an embarrassment! David, you were wrong.

  • T100C1970

    The “stand your ground” law was not applicable here. Zimmerman lost sight of Martin after making his phone call and 4 minutes later, Martin cold cocked him with a punch in the nose knocking him down and then jumped on him. You CAN”T retreat even if you want to when somebody is sitting astride you and beating the hell out of you. Until the moment he was punched out Zim had no reason to believe that Martin was a threat from which he would have been required to retreat even absent SYG. This all came out at trial, but media and race baiters fail to grasp the facts of the case… Ever heard of “the knockout game” or “polar bear hunting” ?? I suspect Martin had.

  • Matt in VA

    The Zimmerman case proves that Democrats hate Latinos and Obama hates Hispanics. Where is Dolores Huerta now?

  • Jack Burnett

    People should be offended that you suggest conservatives rushed to defend Zimmerman because liberals accused him. I think he is guilty of stupidity and innocent of murder, manslaughter OR child abuse…based on the information that the jury heard and some that they didn’t.

    Trayvon was, without a doubt, a hoodlum and a violent kid. We hear about the weed that he smoked and hear liberals making a big deal of weed not causing violent behavior. I agree. But have you heard of lean, sometimes referred to as purple drank, sizzurp or Texas tea? It is a mixture made with cough syrup and, down South, rather than Sprite and Jolly Ranchers they make it from AZ Iced Tea, Skittles and Robitussin. Every young black that I know is talking about it and Trayvon. Trayvon (NO_LIMITS_NIGGA on his now closed Twitter account) asks his friend on Twitter if he knows where to get any syrup and mentions that he wants to make more lean. Coming down off that high creates anxiety, anger and a general feeling of uneasiness. Look it up.

    We, but not the jury, also know that Trayvon attacked white teachers in school at least twice and was facing his 3rd suspension for violent behavior. We saw the piles of jewelry on his bed, the gun in his hand, his gold grills, the fight video and him flipping off the world on his cell phone photos. I would LOVE to see what information the police did NOT release on Trayvon. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s most likely a duck. I don’t need to counter the opinion of liberals to know that it looks like a hoodlum.

  • Tom Kaye

    Treyvon Martin’s death was a tragedy and the liberal circus that has followed it is a travesty. We now know from Jeantel’s statements since the trial that she may have provoked Treyvon to go after Zimmerman because she she told him she thought Zimmerman might be a gay rapist!

    Although I can see perhaps the need to rewrite some of the Stand Your Ground legislation to clarify proper self-defense in a public or open venue, I disagree with you regarding concealed/carry by neighborhood watch patrols. Yes, they need training, but who has more of a right to carry a gun than someone defending their home? Perhaps the problem is the “concealed” part. Perhaps they should be required to wear their guns on their hips like police do so everyone, every potential criminal, can see they are armed. Perhaps if Treyvon had seen the gun on Zimmerman he would have thought twice about jumping him.

    I prefer that to the provocative front door sign “This home protected by Smith & Wesson three days a week. You guess which three.”

    And there is also the issue of why Treyvon was buying Arizona Watermelon Fruit Coctail and Skittles. Was it to make the cheap high called “Lean”? We know from his facebook page and the coroner’s report on the condition of his liver that he was an imbiber of the druggy drink made with cough syrup, which one of the side effects of long-term use is paranoia.

    We will never know the truth for certain in this case. All we are ever left with is imperfect, flawed, human judgment.

  • undisputablefacts1

    “Superficial Injuries”?? A broken nose and a cuts on the back of the head with significant swelling on the back of the head may be considered “superficial” to Horowitz since they happened to someone else, but I feel pretty confident that if those injuries were inflicted on him or a love one, he would see things considerably different!!

  • Hesperado

    David Horowitz’s behavior on this issue and on the Diana West issue remarkably reminds me of the way Charles Johnson showed his true color (Red), revealing that his true nature all along was one of Leftosfascism. How much longer before we see Horowitz doing essentally the same — allowing his penchant for believing in that unicorn, the Moderate Muslim, to morph out of control into a defense of Muslims and Islam in general (in, in fact, he isn’t there alread)?

  • Jaime Andres Pretell

    David Horowitz falls for his own biases as he seeks to project those onto other in his projection analysis “Is the Zimmerman case really open and shut?”

    In the interests of justice, all evidence should definitely be looked at in an objective manner. That includes a thorough analysis of both parties. Just stating that Martin was an unarmed 17-year-old, who was not a felon, who was on a neighborhood run to get Skittles, and that he inflicted very superficial injuries on his adversary during their scuffle does not represent Martin accurately.

    Martin was a 17 year old, who was taller than Zimmerman, had a history of fighting, a history of suspension and going into diversionary programs by the high school police to avoid criminal charges, and a history that included being found with jewelry that was later identified as stolen, along with an industrial screwdriver. And a phone history of wanting to purchase an illegal gun and drug use.

    Whether Martin was on a run to get skittles or not, is irrelevant. The time he took to go to the store and back was much longer than a direct purchase and return would have taken. Furthermore, many crimes are crimes of opportunity, and are not planned out. Finally, Martin could simply have been casing out houses to see if any opportunity existed. There is no evidence to say one way or the other. To claim that all he was up to was buying Skittles, or to claim he was about to rob a house are both legitimate possibilities, not facts.

    Horowitz, presents a straw man by claiming that George Zimmerman only had superficial wounds and thus his claim of self-defense should be taken with a grain of salt. Florida’s self-defense law states: A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. The key word here is imminent. You do not have to receive great bodily injury to respond with deadly force. You have to fear imminent great bodily injury.

    Horowitz errs in claiming that Zimmerman only received superficial wounds, as Zimmerman had a deviated septum, or broken nose, but the broken nose, along with the lacerations on the back of the head do not go to prove great bodily injury, just that he was indeed punched in the nose and that his head impacted with the cement multiple times leading to lacerations. The fears were of imminent death or great bodily injury because his head was impacting the cement and he was in a struggle for a gun. Knockouts and concussions don’t always leave outside markings, but more importantly, knockouts lead people to be completely vulnerable. And in a struggle that went from an assault which could possibly lead to a brain concussion, or being unconscious with an unknown assailant now holding his gun, the fear of imminent great bodily harm or death was quite valid, and quite legal.

    The stand your ground clause of the Florida statute: A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be, holds no relevance in this case as witnesses have stated that Zimmerman was mounted by Martin and thus had no ability to retreat in the first place.

    As I have stated in a subsequent article by Ari Lieberman, who quotes this article:

    Lieberman next alleges indisputable facts that are, in fact, quite disputed. He claims that Zimmerman lied in his proceedings. This is patently false. While Zimmerman did seek to keep the state of his affairs secret from listeners in his prison conversations, Zimmerman was never asked about his finances, and, indeed, it was Shellie who lied on the stand. If anything, it would make Shellie’s credibility an issue. Which, along with Shellie’s father’s old fraud conviction would make both their credibility an issue in their claims against Zimmerman.

    Next Lieberman claims that Zimmerman indisputably knew about ‘Stand Your Ground’ because of his courses in criminal law. But this is again misinformation. Zimmerman was taught about the Castle Doctrine in Florida, but the professor stated that he never referenced it as Stand Your Ground. There is no evidence to indicate how much the teachings of that course would have stood in his mind, but there is definitely evidence, in the form of his former professor’s statement in court, that Zimmerman was never told specifically of anything referenced as ‘stand your ground.’

    Next Lieberman claims that Zimmerman claimed Martin jumped out the bushes. This is patently false. Zimmerman stated that Martin ‘emerged from the darkness.’ Another statement that Lieberman failed to verify with due diligence.

    I guess both Horowitz and Lieberman failed in their due diligence.

    My answer to Lieberman also responded to Horowitz’ next allegation:

    Lieberman shows his cluelessness about other religions, and, in fact, his own, when he misrepresents Zimmerman, by claiming callousness, when Zimmerman stated he would have done nothing differently and it is God’s plan. One of the tenets of Catholicism, and indeed, Judaism and Islam as well, is that everything happens by God’s will. Inshallah, Eem yirtzeh hashem or God’s Will are tenets of both Judaism and Islam, as is the popular phrase that ‘God works in mysterious ways’ which derives from Romans 11:33: “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!” This is a central tenet of all Christianity and Zimmerman, a devout Catholic would also believe this. Would he have done anything differently? No. There was no way he would have known that trying to report on suspicious behavior in his neighborhood would have led to him killing a man. Who is he to question God’s Will, God’s Plan, of why it happened? It happened and there was nothing that he could have knowingly done different to avoid the tragic outcome. Zimmerman knowingly only had two choices. To remain apathetic to the problems of his neighborhood, or he could do what he chose, which was to be involved.

    Horowitz thinks Zimmerman should have said that he should have had second thoughts once he found out Martin was a 17 year old. Why? There was no way he could have known Martin’s age, and in matters of assaults, 17 year olds can be tried as adults because they can and do hurt and kill people on many occasions. The tragedy is not in Zimmerman’s actions that day, but in the failure by his parents to steer him down the right path.

    Zimmerman did everything the dispatcher asked of him, and collaborated fully. He had no idea he would be assaulted. He was just lucky he was carrying a weapon to protect himself, or he could have been harmed seriously. Horowitz is seriously naïve if he thinks that in a mounted struggle, Zimmerman had the time and capacity to carefully aim for a non-fatal shot. Why should he not have carried his gun? If he hadn’t had it, he might have been seriously injured right now.

    Horowitz projects his own racial issues, and conflicts onto Zimmerman, ignoring the fact that Zimmerman clearly stated he saw Martin looking into windows. That is an action that can elicit valid suspicion.

    Martin was hardly guiltless. He was in possession of stolen property, tried purchasing an illegal gun, did illegal drugs, and bragged about illegal fights. Doesn’t prove he was the aggressor, but it definitely shows he was capable of that aggression. There is no reason for there to be a penalty for self-defense if it was valid, and no one has proven that it was not. Innocent till proven guilty

    And again, Stand your ground never played a role in this case.