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	<title>Comments on: Five Lessons from Egypt and the Arab Spring</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hpe reader</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5305871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hpe reader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5305871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Craig, that would certainly explain things in the Middle East today, eh?.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig, that would certainly explain things in the Middle East today, eh?.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5305179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[craig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5305179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the 7th century, much of the Middle East was Christian, advanced, and cosmopolitan.  Then Mohammed happened, and they have been devolving ever since.  The so-called &#039;Golden Age&#039; of Islamic culture was nothing more than the residual fruits of the subjugated peoples&#039; civilization.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the 7th century, much of the Middle East was Christian, advanced, and cosmopolitan.  Then Mohammed happened, and they have been devolving ever since.  The so-called &#8216;Golden Age&#8217; of Islamic culture was nothing more than the residual fruits of the subjugated peoples&#8217; civilization.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5330484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 18:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5330484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The punishments are a fact. In law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be killed or just imprisoned...you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat al_Salik, the Shaf&#039;i manual says &quot;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&quot; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924 &quot;The Law of Apostasy&quot;: &quot;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed canon law by what is called general agreement and legal deductions of the learned. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi &#039;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&quot; 

One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &quot;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined. slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets her be confined.&quot;

Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law, implemented or not? &quot;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&quot;

In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#039;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &quot;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&quot; The Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#039;Bill of Legal Punishments&#039;. &quot;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&quot;

Ibn Hisham &quot;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#039;Amru stood up and said &#039;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#039; People changed their minds and were afraid.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The punishments are a fact. In law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be killed or just imprisoned&#8230;you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat al_Salik, the Shaf&#8217;i manual says &#8220;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&#8221; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924 &#8220;The Law of Apostasy&#8221;: &#8220;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed canon law by what is called general agreement and legal deductions of the learned. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi &#8216;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&#8221; </p>
<p>One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &#8220;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined. slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets her be confined.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law, implemented or not? &#8220;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&#8221;</p>
<p>In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#8217;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &#8220;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&#8221; The Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#8216;Bill of Legal Punishments&#8217;. &#8220;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ibn Hisham &#8220;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#8216;Amru stood up and said &#8216;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#8217; People changed their minds and were afraid.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5330469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5330469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The punishments are a fact, in law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be 
killed or just imprisoned...you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat 
al_Salik, the Shaf&#039;i manual says &quot;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily 
apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&quot; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924 &quot;The Law of Apostasy&quot;: &quot;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming 
fixed canon law by what is called general agreement. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi 
&#039;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&quot; 

One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &quot;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned 
until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined.&quot;

Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law:  &quot;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&quot; In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#039;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &quot;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&quot; The Legislative Committee
 Al-Azhar &#039;Bill of Legal Punishments&#039;. &quot;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. ..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practice. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those
 who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&quot;

Ibn Hisham &quot;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#039;Amru stood up and said &#039;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#039; People changed their minds and were afraid.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The punishments are a fact, in law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be<br />
killed or just imprisoned&#8230;you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat<br />
al_Salik, the Shaf&#8217;i manual says &#8220;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily<br />
apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&#8221; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924 &#8220;The Law of Apostasy&#8221;: &#8220;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming<br />
fixed canon law by what is called general agreement. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi<br />
&#8216;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&#8221; </p>
<p>One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &#8220;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned<br />
until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law:  &#8220;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&#8221; In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#8217;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &#8220;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&#8221; The Legislative Committee<br />
 Al-Azhar &#8216;Bill of Legal Punishments&#8217;. &#8220;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. ..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practice. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those<br />
 who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ibn Hisham &#8220;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#8216;Amru stood up and said &#8216;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#8217; People changed their minds and were afraid.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5330468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 02:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5330468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These punishments are a fact. In law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be 
killed or just imprisoned...you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat al_Salik, the Shaf&#039;i manual says &quot;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) 
and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&quot; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer 
Cairo 1924 &quot;The Law of Apostasy&quot;: &quot;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed canon law by what is called general agreement. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi &#039;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&quot; 

One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &quot;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned 
until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined.&quot;

Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law:  &quot;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&quot; In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#039;an is 
full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &quot;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&quot; The Legislative Committee
 Al-Azhar &#039;Bill of Legal Punishments&#039;. &quot;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person 
who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that 
when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practice. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought
 against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&quot;

Ibn Hisham &quot;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#039;Amru stood up and said &#039;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#039; People changed their minds and were afraid.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These punishments are a fact. In law and history. Sure the schools may differ whether a woman should be<br />
killed or just imprisoned&#8230;you find that better? Life in prison unless you revert? Why should anyone be punished for wanting to leave Islam? Umdat al_Salik, the Shaf&#8217;i manual says &#8220;the penalty for a Muslim apostate is death. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr)<br />
and the worst. When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&#8221; He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is killed. S.M. Zwemer<br />
Cairo 1924 &#8220;The Law of Apostasy&#8221;: &#8220;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed canon law by what is called general agreement. All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. .In An-Nawawi &#8216;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&#8221; </p>
<p>One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya: &#8220;an apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain. If a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned<br />
until she returns to the faith. Shafei maintains she is to be put to death. Maliki is also irrespective of sex. Hanafi lets her be confined.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why does the Egyptian government have a 1977 Apostasy law:  &#8220;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&#8221; In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#8217;an is<br />
full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &#8220;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&#8221; The Legislative Committee<br />
 Al-Azhar &#8216;Bill of Legal Punishments&#8217;. &#8220;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person<br />
who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that<br />
when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practice. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought<br />
 against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ibn Hisham &#8220;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#8216;Amru stood up and said &#8216;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#8217; People changed their minds and were afraid.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5330465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5330465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These punishments are facts. I didn&#039;t say they didn&#039;t differ in whether a woman might be killed or just imprisoned (you find that better?  Life imprisonment unless you reconvert?  Why should anyone be punished at all for wanting to leave Islam?  Compulsion in religion maybe?).  Umdat al-Salik, the Shaf&#039;i manual &quot;the penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer 
believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death. 08.0 Ridda. Leaving Islam is the ugliest 
form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. 08.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&quot;  He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is immediately killed.

&quot;The Law of Apostasy&quot; S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924.
&quot;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed as canon law by what is called general agreement,
 Ijima&#039;a.  All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. Generally this is grouped with those on other crimes that demand corporal punishment. Ijma&#039;a and Qiyas (legal deductions 
of the learned) are based on sunnat-an-nabi, the example of the Prophet..In An-Nawawi &quot;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&quot;

One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya &quot;as there are two modes of repelling the sin of apostasy, namely destruction or Islam..and apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be 
slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith.  Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets
 her be confined.&quot;  v.2 ch9 pg225

Why does the Egyptian government have an Apostasy Law, implemented or not? &quot;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&quot;  In response to a 
former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#039;an is full of 
contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &quot;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) 
must haste to repent.&quot; The Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#039;Bill of Legal Punishments&#039;. &quot;A person
 guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be 
accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and
 killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&quot;

Ibn Hisham &quot;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#039;Amru stood up and said &#039;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#039;  People changed their minds and were afraid.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These punishments are facts. I didn&#8217;t say they didn&#8217;t differ in whether a woman might be killed or just imprisoned (you find that better?  Life imprisonment unless you reconvert?  Why should anyone be punished at all for wanting to leave Islam?  Compulsion in religion maybe?).  Umdat al-Salik, the Shaf&#8217;i manual &#8220;the penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer<br />
believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death. 08.0 Ridda. Leaving Islam is the ugliest<br />
form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. 08.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&#8221;  He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is immediately killed.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Law of Apostasy&#8221; S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924.<br />
&#8220;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed as canon law by what is called general agreement,<br />
 Ijima&#8217;a.  All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. Generally this is grouped with those on other crimes that demand corporal punishment. Ijma&#8217;a and Qiyas (legal deductions<br />
of the learned) are based on sunnat-an-nabi, the example of the Prophet..In An-Nawawi &#8220;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya &#8220;as there are two modes of repelling the sin of apostasy, namely destruction or Islam..and apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be<br />
slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith.  Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets<br />
 her be confined.&#8221;  v.2 ch9 pg225</p>
<p>Why does the Egyptian government have an Apostasy Law, implemented or not? &#8220;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&#8221;  In response to a<br />
former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#8217;an is full of<br />
contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &#8220;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president)<br />
must haste to repent.&#8221; The Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#8216;Bill of Legal Punishments&#8217;. &#8220;A person<br />
 guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be<br />
accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and<br />
 killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ibn Hisham &#8220;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#8216;Amru stood up and said &#8216;Anyone who relinquishes Islam we will cut his head off.&#8217;  People changed their minds and were afraid.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5330464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5330464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you serious?  Are you going to argue that the 4 mainstream schools of Islamic jurisprudence do not mandate a death penalty for apostasy?  I didn&#039;t say they didn&#039;t differ in whether a woman might be killed or just imprisoned (you find that better?  Life imprisonment unless you reconvert?  Why should anyone be punished at all for wanting to leave Islam?  Compulsion in religion maybe?).  Umdat al-Salik, the Shaf&#039;i manual &quot;the penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death. 08.0 Ridda. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. 08.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&quot;  He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is immediately killed.


&quot;The Law of Apostasy&quot; S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924.
&quot;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed as canon law by what is called general agreement, Ijima&#039;a.  All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. Generally this is grouped with those on other crimes that demand corporal punishment. Ijma&#039;a and Qiyas (legal deductions of the learned) are based on sunnat-an-nabi, the example of the Prophet..In An-Nawawi &quot;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&quot;


One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya &quot;as there are two modes of repelling the sin of apostasy, namely destruction or Islam..and apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith.  Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets her be confined.&quot;  v.2 ch9 pg225


Why does the Egyptian government have an Apostasy Law, implemented or not? &quot;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&quot;  In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#039;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &quot;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&quot; 



Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#039;Bill of Legal Punishments&#039;. &quot;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &quot;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&quot; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&quot;

The message of love?  While you defend the four rightly guided caliphs who launched the rivers of blood and misery I&#039;ve described a little bit of?  Who launched war against all their neighbors and far beyond? Besides slaughter and tyranny, one of them laid out the rules of dhimmitude called the Pact of Umar, which you disassociated yourself from.  They also followed what you don;t believe in, a death penalty for apostates who leave Islam.  Abu Bakr returned apostatized tribes to Islam by force and threats of death.  That&#039;s how Islam always kept Muslims within the fold.  Ibn Hisham writes &quot;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#039;Amru stood up and said &#039;Anyone who relinquishes Islam, we will cut his head off.&#039; People changed their minds and were afraid.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you serious?  Are you going to argue that the 4 mainstream schools of Islamic jurisprudence do not mandate a death penalty for apostasy?  I didn&#8217;t say they didn&#8217;t differ in whether a woman might be killed or just imprisoned (you find that better?  Life imprisonment unless you reconvert?  Why should anyone be punished at all for wanting to leave Islam?  Compulsion in religion maybe?).  Umdat al-Salik, the Shaf&#8217;i manual &#8220;the penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death. 08.0 Ridda. Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. 08.1 When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostates from Islam, he deserves to be killed.&#8221;  He is asked to repent and return to Islam, if he refuses he is immediately killed.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Law of Apostasy&#8221; S.M. Zwemer Cairo 1924.<br />
&#8220;Islamic law is based in the first instance on the teaching of the Koran but no less on Moslem tradition becoming fixed as canon law by what is called general agreement, Ijima&#8217;a.  All books on canon law include a section on the punishment due to apostasy. Generally this is grouped with those on other crimes that demand corporal punishment. Ijma&#8217;a and Qiyas (legal deductions of the learned) are based on sunnat-an-nabi, the example of the Prophet..In An-Nawawi &#8220;The Apostle of God said the blood of a fellow Muslim should never be shed except in 3 cases, that of the adulterer, the murderer, and whoever forsakes the religion of Islam.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of the most famous books of Hanafi Law is called the Hedaya &#8220;as there are two modes of repelling the sin of apostasy, namely destruction or Islam..and apostate is to be imprisoned for 3 days, within which time if he returns to the faith it is well, but if not he must be slain..if a Musselman woman becomes an apostate, she is not put to death but is imprisoned until she returns to the faith.  Shafei maintains that she is to be put to death. Maliki Law is also irrespective of sex, Hanafi lets her be confined.&#8221;  v.2 ch9 pg225</p>
<p>Why does the Egyptian government have an Apostasy Law, implemented or not? &#8220;The apostate who intentionally relinquishes Islam by explicit declaration or decisive deed must be put to death.&#8221;  In response to a former President of Tunisia who said the Qur&#8217;an is full of contradictions and Muhammad wrote myths, Saudi scholars wrote &#8220;the verdict of Islam is to sentence to death anyone who (says) such things. The (president) must haste to repent.&#8221; </p>
<p>Legislative Committee Al-Azhar &#8216;Bill of Legal Punishments&#8217;. &#8220;A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed 60 days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy twice shall not be accepted..the ordained penalty is based on the Sunnah. The Prophet said &#8220;One who changes his faith is to be killed.&#8221; (al Bukhari) It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The Rightly Guided Caliphs continued this practiced. It is fully known that Abu Bakr fought against those who had deserted from Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view and a consensus emerged on this issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>The message of love?  While you defend the four rightly guided caliphs who launched the rivers of blood and misery I&#8217;ve described a little bit of?  Who launched war against all their neighbors and far beyond? Besides slaughter and tyranny, one of them laid out the rules of dhimmitude called the Pact of Umar, which you disassociated yourself from.  They also followed what you don;t believe in, a death penalty for apostates who leave Islam.  Abu Bakr returned apostatized tribes to Islam by force and threats of death.  That&#8217;s how Islam always kept Muslims within the fold.  Ibn Hisham writes &#8220;When Muhammad died most Meccans were about to turn away from Islam and wanted to do so. Suhayl Ibn &#8216;Amru stood up and said &#8216;Anyone who relinquishes Islam, we will cut his head off.&#8217; People changed their minds and were afraid.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: KT Shamim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5255114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KT Shamim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5255114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t do away with Hadith. I only said that where it stands in contradiction to the Qur&#039;an the Hadith must be thrown away (no matter how &quot;Sahih&quot; scholars might have deemed it to be) because Hadith suffer from the weakness of Chinese whispers.

I would not defend today&#039;s mainstream Islam in a whole bunch of things including many that you point out. But if you attack the Qur&#039;an on the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) or his four rightly guided caliphs then it is my duty, my Jihad, to &quot;Strive hard against the disbelievers&quot; using my keyboard. That is today&#039;s Jihad as declared by our Promised Messiah.

Abu Bakr had the Musilms killed (I didn&#039;t know the number was 80,000) because they refused to pay Zakat (tax) and they rebelled against the government and threatened to invade and had their forces stationed outside Medina for the same purpose. You think all that does not justify punishment in any secular government?

&quot;Whole 12 centuries Muslim community remained unanimous about it&quot; ... where do you get that from? The concept of coercion in Islam originated in the late Ummayyad dynasty and flourished during Abbaside period.

Following is a quote from &quot;Punishment of Apostasy in Islam&quot; by Sir Zafarullah Khan (former President of UN General Assembly, President at ICJ, First foreign minister of Pakistan, and a prominent member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community).

-----------Quote Starts---------------
Yet it is of interest that the Hanafi jurists at the very start were firmly of the view that simple apostacy was not subject to any secular penalty.

The well known compilation Hedayah sets out: The Holy Prophet forbade the killing of women for apostacy, because the principle of punitive regulations is that in such cases the penalty should be left for the hereafter, as a penalty imposed in this life would contravene the purpose of apostacy being a trial the calling to account for which pertains to God alone. This can be departed from only when the object in view is to restrain the person concerned from continuing hostilities. As women, by their very nature, are not capable of fighting, a woman apostate cannot be punished in any case.

Another well known authority on Hanafi jurisprudence sets out: The execution of an apostate is permissible only when it is designed to restrain the apostate from continuing his aggression; it is not permissible merely on account of his reversion to disbelief, for the punishment of disbelief is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Fatehal Kadeer, Val. IV, p.389).

Another authority states: There is no penalty for disbelief, because the penalty for it is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Chalpi&#039;s Commentary on Fatehal Kadeer, p.388).

Again, it is said: There is no execution except in the case of fighting, for it is not permissible to execute anyone merely on the ground of disbelief (Inayah, p.390).

The direction attributed to the Holy Prophet: Execute him who changes his faith; has been interpreted as meaning the execution of a combatant disbeliever (Fatehal Kadeer, Vol. II, p.580).

The advocates of the death penalty for apostacy claim that their thesis is supported by a unanimous consensus of the believers and that no one has ever questioned it. Their claim is utterly untrue. We have just shown that leading jurists of the Hanafi school held to the position to which we adhere, that simple apostacy is not punishable with death. It is only a fighting apostate who is subject to that penalty on account of his rebellion or treason and not on account of his apostacy. In addition there have been outstanding scholars in Islam who have upheld the view that we maintain, among them are the great figures of Hafiz Ibn Qayyam, Ibrahim Nakhai and Sufyan Thauri, the last one a great Imam of hadees.
--------Quote Ends (Google the book its online)---------



So please at least stop with the &quot;unanimous&quot; argument?


[9:11-12] is about pacts and treatise. Not about conversion. Read the chapter from the start.


[4:89] is not about apostasy at all. The brackets are your own inference.


[9:73-74] tells us to strive against disbelievers. Like I am doing right now. Nothing wrong with that.


[3:90-91] shows there is no corporal punishment for apostasy (in fact I think I presented similar verse in my defense).


The size of our sect should not be a cause of your disinterest. All Prophets of God started small. It took Christianity 300 years to transition from a small to a dominant religion. Your interest should be based on God&#039;s support of our sect. Governments have clashed against us and God has dethroned them. We have never so much as raised a sword. Spreading the message of love we are growing with God&#039;s blessing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t do away with Hadith. I only said that where it stands in contradiction to the Qur&#8217;an the Hadith must be thrown away (no matter how &#8220;Sahih&#8221; scholars might have deemed it to be) because Hadith suffer from the weakness of Chinese whispers.</p>
<p>I would not defend today&#8217;s mainstream Islam in a whole bunch of things including many that you point out. But if you attack the Qur&#8217;an on the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) or his four rightly guided caliphs then it is my duty, my Jihad, to &#8220;Strive hard against the disbelievers&#8221; using my keyboard. That is today&#8217;s Jihad as declared by our Promised Messiah.</p>
<p>Abu Bakr had the Musilms killed (I didn&#8217;t know the number was 80,000) because they refused to pay Zakat (tax) and they rebelled against the government and threatened to invade and had their forces stationed outside Medina for the same purpose. You think all that does not justify punishment in any secular government?</p>
<p>&#8220;Whole 12 centuries Muslim community remained unanimous about it&#8221; &#8230; where do you get that from? The concept of coercion in Islam originated in the late Ummayyad dynasty and flourished during Abbaside period.</p>
<p>Following is a quote from &#8220;Punishment of Apostasy in Islam&#8221; by Sir Zafarullah Khan (former President of UN General Assembly, President at ICJ, First foreign minister of Pakistan, and a prominent member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community).</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;Quote Starts&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
Yet it is of interest that the Hanafi jurists at the very start were firmly of the view that simple apostacy was not subject to any secular penalty.</p>
<p>The well known compilation Hedayah sets out: The Holy Prophet forbade the killing of women for apostacy, because the principle of punitive regulations is that in such cases the penalty should be left for the hereafter, as a penalty imposed in this life would contravene the purpose of apostacy being a trial the calling to account for which pertains to God alone. This can be departed from only when the object in view is to restrain the person concerned from continuing hostilities. As women, by their very nature, are not capable of fighting, a woman apostate cannot be punished in any case.</p>
<p>Another well known authority on Hanafi jurisprudence sets out: The execution of an apostate is permissible only when it is designed to restrain the apostate from continuing his aggression; it is not permissible merely on account of his reversion to disbelief, for the punishment of disbelief is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Fatehal Kadeer, Val. IV, p.389).</p>
<p>Another authority states: There is no penalty for disbelief, because the penalty for it is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Chalpi&#8217;s Commentary on Fatehal Kadeer, p.388).</p>
<p>Again, it is said: There is no execution except in the case of fighting, for it is not permissible to execute anyone merely on the ground of disbelief (Inayah, p.390).</p>
<p>The direction attributed to the Holy Prophet: Execute him who changes his faith; has been interpreted as meaning the execution of a combatant disbeliever (Fatehal Kadeer, Vol. II, p.580).</p>
<p>The advocates of the death penalty for apostacy claim that their thesis is supported by a unanimous consensus of the believers and that no one has ever questioned it. Their claim is utterly untrue. We have just shown that leading jurists of the Hanafi school held to the position to which we adhere, that simple apostacy is not punishable with death. It is only a fighting apostate who is subject to that penalty on account of his rebellion or treason and not on account of his apostacy. In addition there have been outstanding scholars in Islam who have upheld the view that we maintain, among them are the great figures of Hafiz Ibn Qayyam, Ibrahim Nakhai and Sufyan Thauri, the last one a great Imam of hadees.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;Quote Ends (Google the book its online)&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>So please at least stop with the &#8220;unanimous&#8221; argument?</p>
<p>[9:11-12] is about pacts and treatise. Not about conversion. Read the chapter from the start.</p>
<p>[4:89] is not about apostasy at all. The brackets are your own inference.</p>
<p>[9:73-74] tells us to strive against disbelievers. Like I am doing right now. Nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>[3:90-91] shows there is no corporal punishment for apostasy (in fact I think I presented similar verse in my defense).</p>
<p>The size of our sect should not be a cause of your disinterest. All Prophets of God started small. It took Christianity 300 years to transition from a small to a dominant religion. Your interest should be based on God&#8217;s support of our sect. Governments have clashed against us and God has dethroned them. We have never so much as raised a sword. Spreading the message of love we are growing with God&#8217;s blessing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5255087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5255087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Umdat al-Salik is a classic manual of Islamic law endorsed by Al-Azhar. 0.1.0pp582 Who is subject to retaliation for injurious crimes.  Retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right. The following are not subject to retaliation: --a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim.


Muslims are superior to non-Muslims legally, morally, spiritually and the life of a non-Muslim is worth less than a Muslim.  Also note another line in the ruling &quot;killing an apostate from Islam is without consequence.&quot;  And another not subject to retaliation: &quot;a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring&#039;s offspring.&quot;  A sound basis for honor killing.


Islam is about punishing thought-crimes.  8:39 And fight them until there is no more fitna (sedition, dissension).
9:29 Fight(kill) those who believe not in Allah or His Messenger or acknowledge Islam as the Truth.  Thought-crimes.  Apostasy is a thought-crime.  Blasphemy is a thought-crime.  Muhammad dealt lethally with those who mocked or criticized him and Muslims follow that example. In Islam, any opposition or criticism of Islam is considered war against Islam.  Rejecting the call to Islam, the invitation that precedes any attack,  is considered making war on Islam. Disbelief itself is rebellion against Allah, spreading corruption, and making war on Islam.  I promise this is how the scholars of Islam understand things, as incredible as it sounds to Westerners who think war and self-defense just refer to physical aggression. Thus, Islam always acts in self-defense!   



I&#039;ll leave it to any reader to decide who speaks the truth about the treatment of Jews in Arabia, the hate Muhammad and the Qur&#039;an express for them, the fact the Muslims eliminated them from Arabia and brutally.  The reader can decide who speaks the truth about Jizya and it&#039;s intention (to punish and humiliate) and about the many rules of dhimmitude institutionalized by Islam and still sparking the persecution of Christians in Muslim-majority countries today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umdat al-Salik is a classic manual of Islamic law endorsed by Al-Azhar. 0.1.0pp582 Who is subject to retaliation for injurious crimes.  Retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right. The following are not subject to retaliation: &#8211;a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim.</p>
<p>Muslims are superior to non-Muslims legally, morally, spiritually and the life of a non-Muslim is worth less than a Muslim.  Also note another line in the ruling &#8220;killing an apostate from Islam is without consequence.&#8221;  And another not subject to retaliation: &#8220;a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring&#8217;s offspring.&#8221;  A sound basis for honor killing.</p>
<p>Islam is about punishing thought-crimes.  8:39 And fight them until there is no more fitna (sedition, dissension).<br />
9:29 Fight(kill) those who believe not in Allah or His Messenger or acknowledge Islam as the Truth.  Thought-crimes.  Apostasy is a thought-crime.  Blasphemy is a thought-crime.  Muhammad dealt lethally with those who mocked or criticized him and Muslims follow that example. In Islam, any opposition or criticism of Islam is considered war against Islam.  Rejecting the call to Islam, the invitation that precedes any attack,  is considered making war on Islam. Disbelief itself is rebellion against Allah, spreading corruption, and making war on Islam.  I promise this is how the scholars of Islam understand things, as incredible as it sounds to Westerners who think war and self-defense just refer to physical aggression. Thus, Islam always acts in self-defense!   </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave it to any reader to decide who speaks the truth about the treatment of Jews in Arabia, the hate Muhammad and the Qur&#8217;an express for them, the fact the Muslims eliminated them from Arabia and brutally.  The reader can decide who speaks the truth about Jizya and it&#8217;s intention (to punish and humiliate) and about the many rules of dhimmitude institutionalized by Islam and still sparking the persecution of Christians in Muslim-majority countries today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5255061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5255061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not interested in your Qur&#039;an-only, orthodox-Islam-is-not real-Islam discussion.  Your endless repetition that because the Qur&#039;an says there is &quot;no compulsion in religion&quot; therefore there is no compulsion, regardless of the evidence Islam is nothing but compulsion and all the Qur&#039;anic evidence to the contrary. Go debate Muslims.  I&#039;m only interested in what the vast majority of Muslims believe, not you and your little sect.  There is such a thing as the Sunnah.  What Muhammad did and said.  The chronology of the Qur&#039;an.  Even the pillars of Islam are only understood from the Sunnah.  There is such a thing as Islamic law, Allah&#039;s sacred law.  Orthodox Islam believes in murder in the name of Allah because the Qur&#039;an and Sunnah obligate it.  You&#039;ve found a way to deny that, at the expense of most of Islam.  I&#039;m only interested in what the Muslim World believes.  Not you.


Every school of Islamic law requires death for apostasy. Based on Muhammad saying, if a Muslim changes his religion, kill him (Sahih Bukhari).  Abu Bakr killed 80,000 Muslims for trying to leave Islam.  The first thing that happened in the new government in Afghanistan was a Muslim convert to Christianity was sentenced to death for leaving Islam.  However little the penalty is currently applied it is always there.  It can always spur mob justice and does. Muslims who leave Islam usually do so quietly. At the very least they are ostracized and may lose all their property and rights.  Abdul Ala Mawdudi wrote &quot;To everyone acquainted with Islamic law it is no secret that according to Islam the punishment for a Muslim who turns to kufr (infidelity, blasphemy) is execution. For the full 12 centuries prior (to the end of the 19th) the total Muslim community remained unanimous about it. The whole of our religious literature clearly testifies that ambiguity about the matter of apostate&#039;s executions never existed among Muslims.  God Most High declares in the Qur&#039;an &quot;But if they repent and worship and pay the poor tax then they are your brethren in religion and if they break their pledges after their treaty and assail your religion then fight the heads of disbelief&quot; (9:11-12).


4:89 &quot;they long that you should disbelieve even as they disbelieve...if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever you find them.&quot;  (about Meccans who after accepting Islam wanted to change their minds.


9:73-74 &quot;O Prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell..they swear by Allah that they said nothing (bad) but really they said the words of disbelief and they disbelieved after accepting Islam. Allah will punish them with a painful torment in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. And there is none for them on earth as a protector or helper.&quot;


3:90-91 &quot;Those who disbelieved after their Belief and then went on increasing in their disbelief, never will their repentance be accepted.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not interested in your Qur&#8217;an-only, orthodox-Islam-is-not real-Islam discussion.  Your endless repetition that because the Qur&#8217;an says there is &#8220;no compulsion in religion&#8221; therefore there is no compulsion, regardless of the evidence Islam is nothing but compulsion and all the Qur&#8217;anic evidence to the contrary. Go debate Muslims.  I&#8217;m only interested in what the vast majority of Muslims believe, not you and your little sect.  There is such a thing as the Sunnah.  What Muhammad did and said.  The chronology of the Qur&#8217;an.  Even the pillars of Islam are only understood from the Sunnah.  There is such a thing as Islamic law, Allah&#8217;s sacred law.  Orthodox Islam believes in murder in the name of Allah because the Qur&#8217;an and Sunnah obligate it.  You&#8217;ve found a way to deny that, at the expense of most of Islam.  I&#8217;m only interested in what the Muslim World believes.  Not you.</p>
<p>Every school of Islamic law requires death for apostasy. Based on Muhammad saying, if a Muslim changes his religion, kill him (Sahih Bukhari).  Abu Bakr killed 80,000 Muslims for trying to leave Islam.  The first thing that happened in the new government in Afghanistan was a Muslim convert to Christianity was sentenced to death for leaving Islam.  However little the penalty is currently applied it is always there.  It can always spur mob justice and does. Muslims who leave Islam usually do so quietly. At the very least they are ostracized and may lose all their property and rights.  Abdul Ala Mawdudi wrote &#8220;To everyone acquainted with Islamic law it is no secret that according to Islam the punishment for a Muslim who turns to kufr (infidelity, blasphemy) is execution. For the full 12 centuries prior (to the end of the 19th) the total Muslim community remained unanimous about it. The whole of our religious literature clearly testifies that ambiguity about the matter of apostate&#8217;s executions never existed among Muslims.  God Most High declares in the Qur&#8217;an &#8220;But if they repent and worship and pay the poor tax then they are your brethren in religion and if they break their pledges after their treaty and assail your religion then fight the heads of disbelief&#8221; (9:11-12).</p>
<p>4:89 &#8220;they long that you should disbelieve even as they disbelieve&#8230;if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever you find them.&#8221;  (about Meccans who after accepting Islam wanted to change their minds.</p>
<p>9:73-74 &#8220;O Prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell..they swear by Allah that they said nothing (bad) but really they said the words of disbelief and they disbelieved after accepting Islam. Allah will punish them with a painful torment in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. And there is none for them on earth as a protector or helper.&#8221;</p>
<p>3:90-91 &#8220;Those who disbelieved after their Belief and then went on increasing in their disbelief, never will their repentance be accepted.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: KT Shamim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KT Shamim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 07:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay ... so some new topics here and some old ones. All good.

&quot;Why is a Muslim&#039;s life, under Islamic law, worth more than a non-Muslim? Answer me that.&quot;

Jizya &lt; Zakat. You must have heard how Abu Bakr killed Muslims who didn&#039;t pay Zakat? So a Muslim has to pay more Zakat so the price of a Muslims life is more because he has to pay more? Is that your argument?

Apostasy - glad you came to that. So there is no corporal punishment for apostasy in Islam. Again orthodox Islam has ruined the image of Islam. But who can hide the truth that is written in the Qur&#039;an:

[Qur&#039;an 4:138] &quot;Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the way.&quot;

[16:107] &quot;Whoso disbelieves in Allah after he has believed — save him who is forced thereto while his heart finds peace in the faith — but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is Allah’s wrath; and they shall have a severe punishment.&quot;

As you can see in both verses no corporal punishment is specified for apostasy. You can believe and disbelieve as much as you want.

Orthodox Islam believes in Murder in the Name of Allah. But Qur&#039;an opposes orthodox Islam.

There were tribes of Jews with whom relations were very cordial (despite some of them being very wicked). In fact, the following verse strikes down the view that Muslims were harsh to Jews AND strikes down the view that there is a punishment for apostasy in Islam:

[Qur&#039;an 3:73] &quot;And a section of the People of the Book say, ‘Believe in that which has been revealed unto the believers, in the early part of day, and disbelieve in the latter part thereof; perchance they may return;&quot;



If Jews were so scared and if punishments were so severe and if ties with Muslims were so weak why would they dare employ such tactics?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay &#8230; so some new topics here and some old ones. All good.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why is a Muslim&#8217;s life, under Islamic law, worth more than a non-Muslim? Answer me that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Jizya &lt; Zakat. You must have heard how Abu Bakr killed Muslims who didn&#039;t pay Zakat? So a Muslim has to pay more Zakat so the price of a Muslims life is more because he has to pay more? Is that your argument?</p>
<p>Apostasy &#8211; glad you came to that. So there is no corporal punishment for apostasy in Islam. Again orthodox Islam has ruined the image of Islam. But who can hide the truth that is written in the Qur&#039;an:</p>
<p>[Qur&#039;an 4:138] &quot;Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the way.&quot;</p>
<p>[16:107] &quot;Whoso disbelieves in Allah after he has believed — save him who is forced thereto while his heart finds peace in the faith — but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is Allah’s wrath; and they shall have a severe punishment.&quot;</p>
<p>As you can see in both verses no corporal punishment is specified for apostasy. You can believe and disbelieve as much as you want.</p>
<p>Orthodox Islam believes in Murder in the Name of Allah. But Qur&#039;an opposes orthodox Islam.</p>
<p>There were tribes of Jews with whom relations were very cordial (despite some of them being very wicked). In fact, the following verse strikes down the view that Muslims were harsh to Jews AND strikes down the view that there is a punishment for apostasy in Islam:</p>
<p>[Qur&#039;an 3:73] &quot;And a section of the People of the Book say, ‘Believe in that which has been revealed unto the believers, in the early part of day, and disbelieve in the latter part thereof; perchance they may return;&quot;</p>
<p>If Jews were so scared and if punishments were so severe and if ties with Muslims were so weak why would they dare employ such tactics?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: KT Shamim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KT Shamim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 07:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No I&#039;m sorry but I don&#039;t see at all. Jizya did not come with any other requirements other than &quot;saghirun&quot; which is subjugation to the government. Obviously you want your citizens to adhere to the rulers. Otherwise what is the point of government? Imposition of taxes and punishment of those who refuse to follow the rule of law is an internationally accepted principle of any government.

As for other requirements (not building churches, etc.) these are not found anywhere in the Qur&#039;an. The verse about Jizya quotes some requirements and forbidding church building is certainly not one of them. In fact, again, given verse about there being no compulsion in religion

(would you be able to quote sources about time of revelation of that verse since you are so well-read? I found a bunch of stuff on the net (saying the verse was revealed after fighting was permitted) but then how reliable is the net? This is just to counter your argument assuming abrogation was a true concept)

Now everyone can rue and complain about taxes all they want (maybe you are a republican leaning ... from the teaparty or something) but taxes are also a part of even the most capitalist economies.

Here are some other beautiful principles of Islamic governance:

[Qur&#039;an 5:9] &quot;O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.&quot;

[Qur&#039;an 4:136]  &quot;O ye who believe! be strict in observing justice, and be witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or against parents and kindred. Whether he be rich or poor, ...&quot;

[Qur&#039;an 2:43] &quot;And confound not truth with falsehood nor hide the truth, knowingly.&quot;

[Qur&#039;an 5:33] &quot;... whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. ...&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No I&#8217;m sorry but I don&#8217;t see at all. Jizya did not come with any other requirements other than &#8220;saghirun&#8221; which is subjugation to the government. Obviously you want your citizens to adhere to the rulers. Otherwise what is the point of government? Imposition of taxes and punishment of those who refuse to follow the rule of law is an internationally accepted principle of any government.</p>
<p>As for other requirements (not building churches, etc.) these are not found anywhere in the Qur&#8217;an. The verse about Jizya quotes some requirements and forbidding church building is certainly not one of them. In fact, again, given verse about there being no compulsion in religion</p>
<p>(would you be able to quote sources about time of revelation of that verse since you are so well-read? I found a bunch of stuff on the net (saying the verse was revealed after fighting was permitted) but then how reliable is the net? This is just to counter your argument assuming abrogation was a true concept)</p>
<p>Now everyone can rue and complain about taxes all they want (maybe you are a republican leaning &#8230; from the teaparty or something) but taxes are also a part of even the most capitalist economies.</p>
<p>Here are some other beautiful principles of Islamic governance:</p>
<p>[Qur'an 5:9] &#8220;O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.&#8221;</p>
<p>[Qur'an 4:136]  &#8220;O ye who believe! be strict in observing justice, and be witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or against parents and kindred. Whether he be rich or poor, &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>[Qur'an 2:43] &#8220;And confound not truth with falsehood nor hide the truth, knowingly.&#8221;</p>
<p>[Qur'an 5:33] &#8220;&#8230; whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. &#8230;&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Banu Qurayza were the third Jewish tribe targeted by Muhammad.  He eliminated them one by one, something planned even before he moved to Yathrib/Medina (the secret Pledge of Aqaba with the Arab Aws &amp; Khazraj to destroy the Jews of Yathrib). 

The Qurayza had watched Muhammad&#039;s expulsion of the Qaynuqa and Nadir Jews from Medina and began collaborating with the Quraysh Meccans.  The Muhammad laid siege to them 25 days until they surrendered without a fight. Muhammad put their fate in the hands of the Muslim warrior Sa&#039;d bin Mu&#039;adh, a member of the Aws tribe.  Sa&#039;d said &quot;the warriors should be killed and the children and women taken captive.&quot;  Muhammad was pleased. &quot;O Sa&#039;d! You have judged with the judgment of Allah..you have decided in confirmation to the judgment of Allah above the seven heavens.&quot;  This is slaughter by consent. Probably prearranged. Muhammad was in charge. He endorsed and authorized this sickening execution and participated actively &quot;the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for the (Qurayza males) and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.&quot;  A &quot;man&quot; was one who had begun to grow pubic hair. 



 Muhammad took the time to select a beautiful young Jewish girl whose husband was beheaded in front of her eyes, for his own sexual gratification.  Rayhanna.  She became his slave but refused to marry him or convert to Islam.  How do you excuse this kind of behavior from a 
prophet of God?  The other widows and children he gave away as slaves to his men. (Ibn Ishaq).

And what did he do to the harmless farmer of Khaybar, to their men and to their women?  He tortured and killed their leader so he would divulge the location of their treasure then took his wife to his tent that night.  Really, how do you explain such things to yourself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Banu Qurayza were the third Jewish tribe targeted by Muhammad.  He eliminated them one by one, something planned even before he moved to Yathrib/Medina (the secret Pledge of Aqaba with the Arab Aws &amp; Khazraj to destroy the Jews of Yathrib). </p>
<p>The Qurayza had watched Muhammad&#8217;s expulsion of the Qaynuqa and Nadir Jews from Medina and began collaborating with the Quraysh Meccans.  The Muhammad laid siege to them 25 days until they surrendered without a fight. Muhammad put their fate in the hands of the Muslim warrior Sa&#8217;d bin Mu&#8217;adh, a member of the Aws tribe.  Sa&#8217;d said &#8220;the warriors should be killed and the children and women taken captive.&#8221;  Muhammad was pleased. &#8220;O Sa&#8217;d! You have judged with the judgment of Allah..you have decided in confirmation to the judgment of Allah above the seven heavens.&#8221;  This is slaughter by consent. Probably prearranged. Muhammad was in charge. He endorsed and authorized this sickening execution and participated actively &#8220;the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for the (Qurayza males) and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.&#8221;  A &#8220;man&#8221; was one who had begun to grow pubic hair. </p>
<p> Muhammad took the time to select a beautiful young Jewish girl whose husband was beheaded in front of her eyes, for his own sexual gratification.  Rayhanna.  She became his slave but refused to marry him or convert to Islam.  How do you excuse this kind of behavior from a<br />
prophet of God?  The other widows and children he gave away as slaves to his men. (Ibn Ishaq).</p>
<p>And what did he do to the harmless farmer of Khaybar, to their men and to their women?  He tortured and killed their leader so he would divulge the location of their treasure then took his wife to his tent that night.  Really, how do you explain such things to yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254747</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t say anything that hurts, I simply quote your own scripture and history back to you.  And that scripture and history is very hurtful (and lethal) to non-Muslims, especially Jews and Christians. 



The whole point of Jizya was not just tribute but that the dhimmi be &quot;humbled.&quot; The Arabic is &quot;saghirun&quot;-to belittle, ridicule, demean.  That&#039;s fine with you?  This is how Muslims were to make their defeated non-Muslim subjects feel. Dhimmis were required to pay it publicly and receive a smart smack on the forehead or neck from the collection officer. (Medieval Islamic Civilization Encyclopedia). Besides Jizya came all the other requirements-not to build or repair a church; to honor Muslims and rise from your seats when they want to sit down; not to blasphemy, criticize Islam in any way; raising a hand to a Muslim was forbidden even in self defense; could not hold any authority over Muslims etc etc.  You say it amounted to nothing, the jizya.  Under Caliph Marwan II &quot;Marwan&#039;s main concern was to amass gold and his yoke bore heavily on the people of the country (the Syrian Christians). His troops inflicted many evils on the men: blows, pillages, outrages on women in their husbands&#039; presence.&quot; (Michael the Syrian).  This tax could be so heavy many non-Muslims converted to avoid it.  This is how the Christian populations dwindled.  &quot;over 400 Christians had become Muhammadans because they could not pay their kharaj (land tax also levied on non Musloims along with jizya), which is the tribute that the Grand Seigneur levies on Christians in his states....the following year in Baghdad, Christians &quot;had to pay their debts or their kharaj, they were forced to sell their children to the Turks to cover it. &quot; (Jean-Baptiste Taverbnier,1651).


You see the clear intention of the taxes and how devestating they often were. Intentionally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t say anything that hurts, I simply quote your own scripture and history back to you.  And that scripture and history is very hurtful (and lethal) to non-Muslims, especially Jews and Christians. </p>
<p>The whole point of Jizya was not just tribute but that the dhimmi be &#8220;humbled.&#8221; The Arabic is &#8220;saghirun&#8221;-to belittle, ridicule, demean.  That&#8217;s fine with you?  This is how Muslims were to make their defeated non-Muslim subjects feel. Dhimmis were required to pay it publicly and receive a smart smack on the forehead or neck from the collection officer. (Medieval Islamic Civilization Encyclopedia). Besides Jizya came all the other requirements-not to build or repair a church; to honor Muslims and rise from your seats when they want to sit down; not to blasphemy, criticize Islam in any way; raising a hand to a Muslim was forbidden even in self defense; could not hold any authority over Muslims etc etc.  You say it amounted to nothing, the jizya.  Under Caliph Marwan II &#8220;Marwan&#8217;s main concern was to amass gold and his yoke bore heavily on the people of the country (the Syrian Christians). His troops inflicted many evils on the men: blows, pillages, outrages on women in their husbands&#8217; presence.&#8221; (Michael the Syrian).  This tax could be so heavy many non-Muslims converted to avoid it.  This is how the Christian populations dwindled.  &#8220;over 400 Christians had become Muhammadans because they could not pay their kharaj (land tax also levied on non Musloims along with jizya), which is the tribute that the Grand Seigneur levies on Christians in his states&#8230;.the following year in Baghdad, Christians &#8220;had to pay their debts or their kharaj, they were forced to sell their children to the Turks to cover it. &#8221; (Jean-Baptiste Taverbnier,1651).</p>
<p>You see the clear intention of the taxes and how devestating they often were. Intentionally.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254741</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t say forced conversion, I said compulsion.  All Islam is compulsion.  A threat is a compulsion.  Convert or die is a compulsion. So is the jizya.  It is only one element of being a dhimmi and the threat is what happens if that &quot;protected&quot; status is lost by not being a good inferior being.  The Jizya is called a ransom, they pay a ransom for their lives.  Why is a Muslim&#039;s life, under Islamic law, worth more than a non-Muslim?  Answer me that. And speaking of compulsion, why is there a threat of death over any Muslim who would leave Islam?  Apostasy is a capital crime in every mainstream school of Islamic jurisprudence.  Compulsion maybe?  

Muhammad&#039;s companions followed his example after his death, they tried to finish what he began. They are the Salafi good Muslims imitate. It&#039;s Muhammad who had his critics assassinated (included a 100 year old man and a pregnant woman); who was the beginning of the end of Jewish life in Arabia, who launched the Jihad, who established dhimmitude at Khaybar, and with verse 9:29; who presided over the beheading execution of 800 surrendered and helpless men and boys of the Qurayza Jews, bound over a ditch. Peace and blessings indeed.   

Jizya?  This tax and others on dhimmis were heavy and deliberately so (yes it varied by the ruler) but here is the intention so its clearly understood and this is how it was practiced most of the time: The intent of the Jizya, set out in verse 9:29, is described in the commentary by ibn Kathir: &quot;with willing submission in defeat and subservience and feel themselves subdued, disgraced, humiliated and belittled&quot; (in return for letting People of the Book live);  and in Jalaluddin Suyuti:  &quot;this is the basis for accepting Jizya  from the People of the Book, a state of abasement.  Al-Maghira told Rustam &#039;I call you to Islam or else you must pay the jizya while you are in a state of abasement.&#039; He said &#039;What does a state of abasement mean?&#039; He replied &#039;You pay it while you are 
standing &amp; I am sitting and the whip is hanging over your head.&#039; &quot;  Ibn Kathir:  &quot;until they pay the Jizya&quot; means that this is done if they don&#039;t convert to Islam; &quot;with submission&quot; means that they are forced to pay and should be downcast...reviled, disgraced &amp; debased...the People of the Book are despicable, lowly &amp; rebellious.&quot;

Oh, the Jews &amp; Christians are despicable, lowly &amp; rebellious.  Feel the love.

I think the enmity and compulsion and intention of humiliation is clear.  This was the practice but it was only following Muhammad&#039;s order, 9:29.  I&#039;m sorry you don&#039;t like &quot;medieval scholars&quot; though they are among the most revered in Islam.  Somehow you don&#039;t mind that the Qur&#039;an comes from the 7th century.  Islamic law is frozen a century or so thereafter.  What are you complaining about?

 

            


              
            

            

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say forced conversion, I said compulsion.  All Islam is compulsion.  A threat is a compulsion.  Convert or die is a compulsion. So is the jizya.  It is only one element of being a dhimmi and the threat is what happens if that &#8220;protected&#8221; status is lost by not being a good inferior being.  The Jizya is called a ransom, they pay a ransom for their lives.  Why is a Muslim&#8217;s life, under Islamic law, worth more than a non-Muslim?  Answer me that. And speaking of compulsion, why is there a threat of death over any Muslim who would leave Islam?  Apostasy is a capital crime in every mainstream school of Islamic jurisprudence.  Compulsion maybe?  </p>
<p>Muhammad&#8217;s companions followed his example after his death, they tried to finish what he began. They are the Salafi good Muslims imitate. It&#8217;s Muhammad who had his critics assassinated (included a 100 year old man and a pregnant woman); who was the beginning of the end of Jewish life in Arabia, who launched the Jihad, who established dhimmitude at Khaybar, and with verse 9:29; who presided over the beheading execution of 800 surrendered and helpless men and boys of the Qurayza Jews, bound over a ditch. Peace and blessings indeed.   </p>
<p>Jizya?  This tax and others on dhimmis were heavy and deliberately so (yes it varied by the ruler) but here is the intention so its clearly understood and this is how it was practiced most of the time: The intent of the Jizya, set out in verse 9:29, is described in the commentary by ibn Kathir: &#8220;with willing submission in defeat and subservience and feel themselves subdued, disgraced, humiliated and belittled&#8221; (in return for letting People of the Book live);  and in Jalaluddin Suyuti:  &#8220;this is the basis for accepting Jizya  from the People of the Book, a state of abasement.  Al-Maghira told Rustam &#8216;I call you to Islam or else you must pay the jizya while you are in a state of abasement.&#8217; He said &#8216;What does a state of abasement mean?&#8217; He replied &#8216;You pay it while you are<br />
standing &amp; I am sitting and the whip is hanging over your head.&#8217; &#8221;  Ibn Kathir:  &#8220;until they pay the Jizya&#8221; means that this is done if they don&#8217;t convert to Islam; &#8220;with submission&#8221; means that they are forced to pay and should be downcast&#8230;reviled, disgraced &amp; debased&#8230;the People of the Book are despicable, lowly &amp; rebellious.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, the Jews &amp; Christians are despicable, lowly &amp; rebellious.  Feel the love.</p>
<p>I think the enmity and compulsion and intention of humiliation is clear.  This was the practice but it was only following Muhammad&#8217;s order, 9:29.  I&#8217;m sorry you don&#8217;t like &#8220;medieval scholars&#8221; though they are among the most revered in Islam.  Somehow you don&#8217;t mind that the Qur&#8217;an comes from the 7th century.  Islamic law is frozen a century or so thereafter.  What are you complaining about?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your point of view is interesting.  I wonder how you would fare preaching it say before the Grand Imam at Mecca or Medina?  I wish you luck in reforming the Ummah and rendering it harmless to the kaffir but I fear you will accomplish little, any more than Mahmoud Muhammad Taha (the Sudanese scholar executed for apostasy) with your peaceful interpretation of the Qur&#039;an and the mission of Islam.  If there is no Nasikh there would have been no jihad and Muslims would not have left Arabia, at least in armies. How are you to interpret the Qur&#039;an then?  Just say the verses you don&#039;t like are historical and limited and the ones you like best you&#039;ll keep?  What about the example of Muhammad?  He founded a state, he went to war on unbelievers.  What part of his example do you choose to follow or not follow?   But the Qur&#039;an says you can&#039;t just follow some of it you like, you have to submit to it all entire.


I understand Muslims wanting to distance themselves from these doctrines and still somehow remain Muslim.
My concern is the threat these doctrines pose to the free world and the civilized world, in their orthodox mainstream understanding by millions of Muslims and as voiced by the leaders and spokesmen of the Muslim world today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your point of view is interesting.  I wonder how you would fare preaching it say before the Grand Imam at Mecca or Medina?  I wish you luck in reforming the Ummah and rendering it harmless to the kaffir but I fear you will accomplish little, any more than Mahmoud Muhammad Taha (the Sudanese scholar executed for apostasy) with your peaceful interpretation of the Qur&#8217;an and the mission of Islam.  If there is no Nasikh there would have been no jihad and Muslims would not have left Arabia, at least in armies. How are you to interpret the Qur&#8217;an then?  Just say the verses you don&#8217;t like are historical and limited and the ones you like best you&#8217;ll keep?  What about the example of Muhammad?  He founded a state, he went to war on unbelievers.  What part of his example do you choose to follow or not follow?   But the Qur&#8217;an says you can&#8217;t just follow some of it you like, you have to submit to it all entire.</p>
<p>I understand Muslims wanting to distance themselves from these doctrines and still somehow remain Muslim.<br />
My concern is the threat these doctrines pose to the free world and the civilized world, in their orthodox mainstream understanding by millions of Muslims and as voiced by the leaders and spokesmen of the Muslim world today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: KT Shamim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254712</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KT Shamim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Abrogation argument is mute as far as I&#039;m concerned since I don&#039;t believe in abrogation.

The verses regarding war clearly state the conditions for war. And I already &quot;put things together&quot; in the previous verse so no point repeating.

And is there a point in repeating the point (and you didn&#039;t refute that point) that Jizya (non-Muslim tax) was less than Zakat (Muslim tax)? Doesn&#039;t make sense how you can force a non-Muslim to convert to Islam where the tax is higher. Doesn&#039;t make sense at all.

True that if the tax was not paid then, obviously, there was punishment but this is to be expected of any government. It isn&#039;t a religious issue. As far as religion was concerned wouldn&#039;t monetary incentive alone rather convert a Muslim to non-Muslim rather than the other way around since Zakat was more than Jizya?

Here is another reason why compulsion seems so stupid. Many verses of the Qur&#039;an curse hypocrites. What is the point of forcing people to join religion when all it does is create hypocrites? Take the following verses (from a Chapter called The Hypocrites!):

[63:2] When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ‘We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.’ And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
[63:3] They have made their oaths a shield; thus they turn men away from the way of Allah. Evil surely is that which they have been doing.
[63:4] That is because they first believed, then disbelieved. So a seal was set upon their hearts and consequently they understand not.
[63:5] And when thou seest them, their figures please thee; and if they speak, thou listenest to their speech. They are as though they were blocks of wood propped up. They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. Allah’s curse be upon them! How are they being turned away!



So what, exactly, was the point in creating more hypocrites by forced conversions and then risking them destroy the religion from the inside?


No compulsion in religion. Qur&#039;an hates hypocrites anyways. They try to destroy Muslims from within making rebellion all the more probably. Zakat &gt; Jizya. And wars were all based on strict conditions. I mean how much more evidence do you want?


Oh and yes, you didn&#039;t get back to me on Islamic conquests in Indonesia (or the complete lack thereof). Or I think that was the other post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abrogation argument is mute as far as I&#8217;m concerned since I don&#8217;t believe in abrogation.</p>
<p>The verses regarding war clearly state the conditions for war. And I already &#8220;put things together&#8221; in the previous verse so no point repeating.</p>
<p>And is there a point in repeating the point (and you didn&#8217;t refute that point) that Jizya (non-Muslim tax) was less than Zakat (Muslim tax)? Doesn&#8217;t make sense how you can force a non-Muslim to convert to Islam where the tax is higher. Doesn&#8217;t make sense at all.</p>
<p>True that if the tax was not paid then, obviously, there was punishment but this is to be expected of any government. It isn&#8217;t a religious issue. As far as religion was concerned wouldn&#8217;t monetary incentive alone rather convert a Muslim to non-Muslim rather than the other way around since Zakat was more than Jizya?</p>
<p>Here is another reason why compulsion seems so stupid. Many verses of the Qur&#8217;an curse hypocrites. What is the point of forcing people to join religion when all it does is create hypocrites? Take the following verses (from a Chapter called The Hypocrites!):</p>
<p>[63:2] When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ‘We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.’ And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.<br />
[63:3] They have made their oaths a shield; thus they turn men away from the way of Allah. Evil surely is that which they have been doing.<br />
[63:4] That is because they first believed, then disbelieved. So a seal was set upon their hearts and consequently they understand not.<br />
[63:5] And when thou seest them, their figures please thee; and if they speak, thou listenest to their speech. They are as though they were blocks of wood propped up. They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. Allah’s curse be upon them! How are they being turned away!</p>
<p>So what, exactly, was the point in creating more hypocrites by forced conversions and then risking them destroy the religion from the inside?</p>
<p>No compulsion in religion. Qur&#8217;an hates hypocrites anyways. They try to destroy Muslims from within making rebellion all the more probably. Zakat &gt; Jizya. And wars were all based on strict conditions. I mean how much more evidence do you want?</p>
<p>Oh and yes, you didn&#8217;t get back to me on Islamic conquests in Indonesia (or the complete lack thereof). Or I think that was the other post.</p>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254709</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How did the Persian general respond to Caliph Umar&#039;s demand the Persians embrace Islam, accept the poll tax (subjugation) or face the sword.&quot;? He said &quot;You (Arabs) were poor and we used to provide you with plenty of food. Why do you invade us now?&quot;  Persians never thought to invade Arabs, they had only helped them. There was nothing but slaughter.  Not Islam coming with love.  Khalid Ibn al-Walid killed 70,000 people on the Iraq border in one battle alone.  When he attacked Ayn al-Tamr in Iraq its people took shelter in a fortress. He laid siege and forced them out. He killed them all. Why? They had refused to embrace Islam.  Period.  The stories go on and on.  Why was Egypt invaded?  &#039;Umru Ibn al-As to &#039;Umar &quot;Egypt&#039;s abundance and yields are plentiful. The conquest of Egypt would gain for the Muslims a foothold in Syria and make it easier to INVADE Africa to spread Islam.&quot;  Nothing but blood, massacre, and plunder. &quot;Allah promises you much booty (spoils) that you will capture.&quot; 48:20  These were offensive wars. Against peaceful countries. To impose Islam.  By force and seize the abundance of their lands and capture slaves.  To end the poverty and hunger of the Arabs.  To spread Islam and make it conquer.  In Palestine, especially, to abrogate the Jewish and Christian claim on the holy land.


The conquest of SInd (India) was commanded by Qasim with instructions to &quot;bring destruction on the unbelievers and whoever does not submit to Islam.&quot;  Historian Will Durant said &quot;the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.&quot;  I&#039;ll spare you the details, dear readers.  But this apologist needs to apologize for the millions of lives sacrificed to this god Allah and his messenger Muhammad, sacrificed simply because they would not be Muslims or live like slaves under Muslims.



No, all he mentions is Indonesia.  I did say Muslim invaders didn&#039;t only conquer by the sword but with Hijra, migration, too.  Hijra is also a form of conquest doctrinally. Europe is today becoming familiar with this method to its detriment. It is based on Muhammad&#039;s Hijra that took over Yathrib of the Jews and made it into Medina of the Muslims. Indonesia was Islamized politically, culturally, economically and militarily starting with migrations from Malaysia.  That is a whole other subject but in the end no different.  The goals are always the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How did the Persian general respond to Caliph Umar&#8217;s demand the Persians embrace Islam, accept the poll tax (subjugation) or face the sword.&#8221;? He said &#8220;You (Arabs) were poor and we used to provide you with plenty of food. Why do you invade us now?&#8221;  Persians never thought to invade Arabs, they had only helped them. There was nothing but slaughter.  Not Islam coming with love.  Khalid Ibn al-Walid killed 70,000 people on the Iraq border in one battle alone.  When he attacked Ayn al-Tamr in Iraq its people took shelter in a fortress. He laid siege and forced them out. He killed them all. Why? They had refused to embrace Islam.  Period.  The stories go on and on.  Why was Egypt invaded?  &#8216;Umru Ibn al-As to &#8216;Umar &#8220;Egypt&#8217;s abundance and yields are plentiful. The conquest of Egypt would gain for the Muslims a foothold in Syria and make it easier to INVADE Africa to spread Islam.&#8221;  Nothing but blood, massacre, and plunder. &#8220;Allah promises you much booty (spoils) that you will capture.&#8221; 48:20  These were offensive wars. Against peaceful countries. To impose Islam.  By force and seize the abundance of their lands and capture slaves.  To end the poverty and hunger of the Arabs.  To spread Islam and make it conquer.  In Palestine, especially, to abrogate the Jewish and Christian claim on the holy land.</p>
<p>The conquest of SInd (India) was commanded by Qasim with instructions to &#8220;bring destruction on the unbelievers and whoever does not submit to Islam.&#8221;  Historian Will Durant said &#8220;the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.&#8221;  I&#8217;ll spare you the details, dear readers.  But this apologist needs to apologize for the millions of lives sacrificed to this god Allah and his messenger Muhammad, sacrificed simply because they would not be Muslims or live like slaves under Muslims.</p>
<p>No, all he mentions is Indonesia.  I did say Muslim invaders didn&#8217;t only conquer by the sword but with Hijra, migration, too.  Hijra is also a form of conquest doctrinally. Europe is today becoming familiar with this method to its detriment. It is based on Muhammad&#8217;s Hijra that took over Yathrib of the Jews and made it into Medina of the Muslims. Indonesia was Islamized politically, culturally, economically and militarily starting with migrations from Malaysia.  That is a whole other subject but in the end no different.  The goals are always the same.</p>
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		<title>By: jackdiamond</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jackdiamond]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No compulsion. First, this is regarded as an abrogated Meccan verse and so understood by Islamic scholarship, abrogated by verse like 9:5 and 9:29 which assert disbelievers must become Muslim or else...or else die or accept subjugation.  Of course, to Muslims even this is not compulsion so I guess you can have it both ways.  If there is no compulsion why do so many verses dictate violence against non-Muslims, for their beliefs?  Convert, be subjugated, or die...is a threat.  A threat is coercion, force. Just not to Muslims.  Living as inferior dhimmis with the threat over you of losing your &quot;protection&quot; if you step out of line and offend Muslims in any way, that&#039;s no compulsion either to Muslims.  They are being generous to let them live and keep (sort of) their religion.  As long as they support the Islamic State with onerous taxes.  The taxes, persecution, oppression were designed (on purpose) to make life miserable (to feel subdued) and many did convert to Islam as the only way to make life better (again by design).  Coercion? Compulsion? Not to Muslims.


Good grief, the ignorance or outright deception in your statements about how Islam spread.  To deliberately ignore the rivers of blood.  Why did Islamic armies leave Arabia to conquer land and people all over the world? 
(this brings us back to abrogation and the rulings of Sura 9.  Manuals of classic Islamic law like Umdat al-Salik do not quote &quot;no compulsion in religion&quot; they quote 9:29 and related commands.  What did Egypt do to Muhammad? Did it attack Muslims? Yet the Muslim army came and killed 4 million Egyptians in the first century of Islam. What did North Africa, Spain, Portugal, Southern Europe do to Muslims?  The Qur&#039;an commanded Muslims to rule the earth and submit mankind to Allah&#039;s laws.  Period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No compulsion. First, this is regarded as an abrogated Meccan verse and so understood by Islamic scholarship, abrogated by verse like 9:5 and 9:29 which assert disbelievers must become Muslim or else&#8230;or else die or accept subjugation.  Of course, to Muslims even this is not compulsion so I guess you can have it both ways.  If there is no compulsion why do so many verses dictate violence against non-Muslims, for their beliefs?  Convert, be subjugated, or die&#8230;is a threat.  A threat is coercion, force. Just not to Muslims.  Living as inferior dhimmis with the threat over you of losing your &#8220;protection&#8221; if you step out of line and offend Muslims in any way, that&#8217;s no compulsion either to Muslims.  They are being generous to let them live and keep (sort of) their religion.  As long as they support the Islamic State with onerous taxes.  The taxes, persecution, oppression were designed (on purpose) to make life miserable (to feel subdued) and many did convert to Islam as the only way to make life better (again by design).  Coercion? Compulsion? Not to Muslims.</p>
<p>Good grief, the ignorance or outright deception in your statements about how Islam spread.  To deliberately ignore the rivers of blood.  Why did Islamic armies leave Arabia to conquer land and people all over the world?<br />
(this brings us back to abrogation and the rulings of Sura 9.  Manuals of classic Islamic law like Umdat al-Salik do not quote &#8220;no compulsion in religion&#8221; they quote 9:29 and related commands.  What did Egypt do to Muhammad? Did it attack Muslims? Yet the Muslim army came and killed 4 million Egyptians in the first century of Islam. What did North Africa, Spain, Portugal, Southern Europe do to Muslims?  The Qur&#8217;an commanded Muslims to rule the earth and submit mankind to Allah&#8217;s laws.  Period.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: KT Shamim</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/five-lessons-from-egypt-and-the-arab-spring/comment-page-1/#comment-5254671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KT Shamim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=199103#comment-5254671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They should take responsibility but I do think you are being bit harsh here calling it &quot;mother&#039;s milk&quot;. Look we can&#039;t stereotype. I always thought extremists were terrible and the problem with the moderate Muslims was that they remain silent. Too scared or lazy to act. That&#039;s how Pakistan got ruined.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should take responsibility but I do think you are being bit harsh here calling it &#8220;mother&#8217;s milk&#8221;. Look we can&#8217;t stereotype. I always thought extremists were terrible and the problem with the moderate Muslims was that they remain silent. Too scared or lazy to act. That&#8217;s how Pakistan got ruined.</p>
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