Today in History: West Saved from Islam at Battle of Tours

toursPrecisely 100 years after the death of Islam’s prophet Muhammad in 632, his Arab followers, after having conquered thousands of miles of lands from Arabia to Spain, found themselves in Gaul, modern day France, facing a hitherto little known people, the Christian Franks.

There, on October 10 or 11, in the year 732, one of history’s most decisive battles took place, demarcating the extent of Islam’s western conquests and ensuring the survival of the West.

Prior to this, the Islamic conquerors had for one century been subjugating all peoples and territories standing in their western march—including Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. In 711, the Muslims made their fateful crossing of the straits of Gibraltar, landing on European soil. Upon disembarkation, the leader of the Muslims, Tariq bin Zayid, ordered the Islamic fleet burned, explaining that “We have not come here to return. Either we conquer and establish ourselves here, or we perish.”

This famous Tariq anecdote—often reminisced by modern day jihadis—highlights the jihadi nature of the Umayyad caliphate (661-750), the superpower of its day. Indeed, as most historians have acknowledged, the Umayyad caliphate was the “Jihadi-State” par excellence. Its very existence was coterminous with its conquests.  Its legitimacy as “viceroy” of Allah was based on subjugating lands in the name of Allah.

Once on European ground, the depredations continued unabated. Writes one Arab chronicler regarding the Muslim northern advance past the Pyrenees: “Full of wrath and pride” the Muslims “went through all places like a desolating storm. Prosperity made those warriors insatiable… everything gave way to their scimitars, the robbers of lives.” Even far off English anchorite, the contemporary, the venerable, Bede, wrote, “A plague of Saracens wrought wretched devastation and slaughter upon Gaul.”

Strange anecdotes also find their way in the chroniclers’ accounts during this time. Muslim historian Abd al-Hakem reports that, after landing on an island off Iberia, one of Tariq’s squadrons discovered that the only inhabitants were vinedressers. “They made them prisoners. After that, they took one of the vinedressers, slaughtered him, cut him into pieces, and boiled him, while the rest of the companions looked on.”  This incident resulted in a rumor that Muslims feast on human flesh.  (Nearly 1300 years later, in the year 2013, a Muslim jihadi ate the organs of his slain enemy to surrounding cries of “Allahu Akbar”.)

At any rate, this must have been the picture the men to the north had of the invaders from the south—wild and insatiable madmen, possibly cannibals, mounted on swift steeds, not unlike, in this manner, the Huns of old, who, under the “anti-Christ” figure of Attila, came ravaging through Europe, only to be defeated, in part by the Franks, in the year 451 at the Battle of Chalons, also in modern day France, 150 miles east of Tours.

“Alas,” exclaimed the Franks, “what a misfortune! What an indignity! We have long heard of the name and conquests of the Arabs; we were apprehensive of their attack from the East [see Siege of Byzantium, 717-718]: they have now conquered Spain, and invade our country on the side of the West.”

Conversely, the Muslims, flushed with a century’s worth of victories, seem to have had an ambivalent view, at best, regarding Frankish mettle. When asked about the Franks, some years before the Battle of Tours, the then emir of Spain, Musa, replied: “They are a folk right numerous, and full of might: brave and impetuous in the attack, but cowardly and craven in the event of defeat. Never has a company from my army been beaten.”

If this view betrayed overconfidence, Musa’s successor, Abd al-Rahman (“Slave to the Merciful”) exhibited even greater haughtiness regarding those whom he was about to give battle. At the head of some 80,000 Muslims, primarily mounted moors, Rahman’s destructive northward march into the heart of France was greatly motivated by rumors of more riches for the taking, particularly at the Basilica of St. Martin of Tours. Rahman initially separated his army into several divisions to better ensure the plunder of Gaul. Writes Isidore, author of the Chronicle of 754: “[Rahman] destroyed palaces, burned churches, and imagined he could pillage the basilica of St. Martin of Tours. It is then that he found himself face to face with the lord of Austrasia, Charles, a mighty warrior from his youth, and trained in all the occasions of arms.”

Indeed, unbeknownst to the Muslims, the battle-hardened Frankish king Charles, aware of their purport, had begun rallying his liegemen to his standard in an effort to ward off the Islamic drive. Having risen to power in France in 717—the same year a mammoth Muslim army was laying siege to Byzantium—Charles appreciated the significance of the Islamic threat. Accordingly, he intercepted the invaders somewhere between Poitiers and Tours, the latter being the immediate aim of the Muslims. The chroniclers give amazing numbers concerning the Muslims, as many as 300,000. Suffice to say, the Franks were greatly outnumbered, and most historians are content with the figures of 80,000 Muslims against 30,000 Franks.

The Muslim force consisted mainly of cavalry, and was geared for offensive warfare. The vast majority being of Berber extraction, they wore little armor, though their elitist Arab overlords were at least chain-mailed. For arms, they relied on the sword and lance; arrows were little used.

Conversely, the Franks were primarily an infantry force (except for mounted nobles such as Charles). Relying on deep phalanx-formations and heavy armor—reportedly 70 pounds for each man—the Franks were as immovable as the Muslims were mobile. They also appear to have had a greater variety of weaponry: the shield was ubiquitous, and arms consisted of swords, daggers, javelins, and two kinds of axes, one for wielding and the other for throwing—the francisca. This notorious latter weapon was so symbolic of the Franks that either it was named after them or, quite possibly, they were named after it.

The chroniclers state that the two contending armies faced each other for 6-7 days, neither wanting to make the first move. The Franks made much use of the familiar terrain: they appear to have held the high ground; and the dense European woods served not only to provide better shelter but to impede the anticipated Muslim cavalry charge.

Winter approaching, supplies and foraging areas dwindling, and an Islamic sense of superiority all compelled Rahman to commence battle, which “consisted entirely of wild headlong charges, wasteful of men.”

Writes an anonymous Arab chronicler: “Near the river Owar [Loire], the two great hosts of the two languages and the two creeds [Islam and Christianity] were set in array against each other. The hearts of Abd al-Rahman, his captains and his men were filled with wrath and pride, and they were the first to begin to fight. The Muslim horsemen dashed fierce and frequent forward against the battalions of the Franks, who resisted manfully, and many fell dead on either side, until the going down of the sun.”

According to the Chronicle of 754, much of which was composed from eye-witness accounts, “The men of the north stood as motionless as a wall, they were like a belt of ice frozen together, and not to be dissolved, as they slew the Arab with the sword. The Austrasians [Franks], vast of limb, and iron of hand, hewed on bravely in the thick of the fight; it was they who found and cut down the Saracen’s king [Rahman].”

Military historian Victor Davis Hanson writes: “When the sources speak of ‘a wall,’ ‘a mass of ice,’ and ‘immovable lines’ of infantrymen, we should imagine a literal human rampart, nearly invulnerable, with locked shields in front of armored bodies, weapons extended to catch the underbellies of any Islamic horsemen foolish enough to hit the Franks at a gallop.”

As night fell, the Muslims and Christians disengaged and withdrew to their tents. With the coming of dawn, the Franks discovered that the Muslims, perhaps seized with panic that their emir was dead, had fled south during the night—still looting, burning, and plundering all and sundry as they went. Hanson offers a realistic picture of the aftermath: “Poitiers [or Tours] was, as all cavalry battles, a gory mess, strewn with thousands of wounded or dying horses, abandoned plunder, and dead and wounded Arabs. Few of the wounded were taken prisoner—given their previous record of murder and pillage at Poitiers.”

In the coming years, Charles, henceforth known as Martel—the “Hammer,” due to his decisive stroke—would continue waging war on the Muslim remnants north of the Pyrenees till they retreated south. Frankish sovereignty and consolidation were naturally established in Gaul, leading to the creation of the Holy Roman Empire—beginning with Charles’ own grandson, Charlemagne, often described by historians as the “Father of Europe.” As historian Henri Pirenne put it: “Without Islam the Frankish Empire would probably never have existed and Charlemagne, without Mahomet, would be inconceivable.”

Aside from the fact that this battle ushered in an end to the first massive wave of Islamic conquests, there are some indications that it also precipitated the fall of the Umayyad caliphate, which, as mentioned earlier, owed its very existence to jihad, victory, plunder and slavery (ghanima). In 718, the Umayyads, after investing a considerable amount of manpower and resources trying to conquer Byzantium, the eastern doorway to Europe, lost horribly. Less than fifteen years later, their western attempt was, as seen, also rebuffed at Tours. In the context of these two pivotal defeats, a mere 18 years after Tours, the Umayyad caliphate was overthrown by the Abbasids, and the age of Islam’s great conquests came to an end (until the rise of the Ottoman empire which, like the Umayyads, was also a jihadi state built on territorial conquests, and which did finally conquer Constantinople).

Thus any number of historians, such as Godefroid Kurth, would go on to say that the Battle of Tours “must ever remain one of the great events in the history of the world, as upon its issue depended whether Christian Civilization should continue or Islam prevail throughout Europe.”

Despite the obvious significance of this battle, cynical modern day historians often point to Edward Gibbon and others as embellishing and aggrandizing this battle. In fact, from the very start, the earliest writers contemporaneous to the battle portrayed it as a war between Islam and Christendom. Gibbon further, and famously, argued that, had the Muslims won, “Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mohammed.” (Writing in the 18th century, clearly Gibbon was unaware that his predictions would still come true, though not by way of active conquest but passive resignation, as the Koran is now taught in Oxford, accorded the same worth of the Bible—equal literature or equal revelation—and Islamic Sharia law is functioning in Britain.)

Still, some modern armchair historians insist that the Battle of Tours was naught but a “minor skirmish” dedicated to plunder, not conquest. As evidence, they point to the fact that, while early Christian chroniclers highlighted this battle, their Muslim counterparts, (except for the very earliest writers, who did acknowledge it as a disastrous defeat) tended to overlook or minimize its significance—as if that is not to be expected from the defeated, especially their posterity.

Other historians insist that plunder was the only objective of the Muslims—a wholly materialistic thesis to be expected from modern-day historians incapable of transcending their own 21st century epistemology. Thus they anachronize, particularly since the texts make clear that conquest and consolidation were always on the mind of the invading Muslims, Rahman’s army no exception: Reinaud tells us that in the emir’s head lurked the possibility of “uniting Italy, Germany, and the empire of the Greeks to the already vast domains of the champions of the Koran.”

In fact, when placed in context, the Muslims’ lust for booty only further validates the expansionist jihad thesis (see Majid Khadurri’s Law of War and Peace in Islam which contains an entire chapter on spoils, ghanima, and their central role in the jihad). From the start, the jihadi was guaranteed one of two rewards for his war-efforts: martyrdom if he dies, plunder if he lives. The one an eternal, the other temporal, reward—a win-win situation that, at least according to early Christian and Muslim chroniclers, played a major role in the success of the Muslim conquests. In other words, that the sources indicate the Muslims were booty-hungry, does not in the least negate the fact that, as with all of the initial Muslim conquests, starting with Prophet Muhammad at the Battle of Badr, territorial conquests and the acquisition of booty went hand-in-hand and were the natural culmination of the jihad.

As for general destruction, Michael Bonner author of Jihad in Islamic History, writes, “The raids are a constant element [of the jihad], always considered praiseworthy and even necessary. This is a feature of pre-modern Islamic states that we cannot ignore. In addition to conquest, we have depredation; in addition to political projects and state-building, we have destruction and waste.”

At any rate, the facts speak for themselves: after the Battle of Tours, no other massive Muslim invasion would be attempted north of the Pyrenees—until very recently and through very different means.

But that is another story.

*

Don’t miss Jamie Glazov’s video interview with Raymond Ibrahim about Islam’s new war on Christians:

Raymond Ibrahim, a Hoover Institution Media Fellow, 2013, is author of Crucified Again: Exposing Islam’s New War on Christians, which deals with both history and current events.

Freedom Center pamphlets now available on Kindle: Click here.  

  • Chezwick

    Edward Gibbon: “[had the Muslims won] Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mohammed.”

    I’ll take it a step further….had the Muslims won at Tours and conquered Europe, there would have been no Reformation, no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no industrial-revolution, no technological-revolution, and the primary means of human transport TODAY would still be horse-and-buggy.

    • Larry Larkin

      You’re giving the muslims too much credit, it would be the man riding and the women and children walking.
      Buggies would be right out, as they didn’t exist during ol ‘Mo’s time.

      • therealpm

        Only Muslim men would be permitted to ride horses. The dhimmis would have to content themselves with mules to demonstrate their sub-human status. Women are seen as sub-human whether they are Muslims or not.

    • kayla21

      Yeah and how come when Islam was prominent in Spain, Europe, The religious tolerance between Jews, Christians, and Moslems could co-exist for 800 freaking years. Jews in particular reached their golden age during that time. It only took few freakin’ years to destroy such tolerance when Catholic took it over – through mass conversion, mass expulsion, and massacres. And surely we know what happened to the Jews not so long ago (30′s to 40′s) in Europe.

      • Fred R.

        The Golden Age for Jews in Spain? The Muslims of Granada massacred the entire Jewish population in 1066. Jews suffered in Spain just as they suffered under Muslim domination in Palestine.

        Fred R.

      • 68Tigers

        Wow,

        You’re a weird POS.

        • defcon 4

          Not “weird” just you’re all too typical muslime liar — at least from our perspective. From the muslime’s perspective it might not be a lie — as long as muslimes believe it. For all we know this might be the version of history taught in islam0fascist states. Somewhere between when muhammad slew the “traitorous” Jews who surrendered to him in Medina/Yathrib and the Nakba.

      • Drakken

        There never was religious tolerance in Spain, if your were Jew or Christian you lived as a second class dhimmi, so take your Islamic propaganda and shove it where the sun don’t shine. Thank God(not allah) that the king and queen of Spain rid the Iberian peninsula of that Islamic scourge, otherwise we would still be in the dark ages. The Catholics that you deride just played by the same rules the bloody muslim savages played by, and the way things are going, we will yet again have to get downright medieval to rid this abomination of islam from our midst. Golden age of islam is pure unadultered propaganda, it was on the backs of the infidels that you had a golden age.

        • Chasmania

          Musloid apologists can’t shove things where ‘the sun doesn’t shine’ because there’s already another musloid there taking his pleasure.

      • defcon 4

        LOL, but the thousands of Jews slaughtered by your fellow muslime psychpaths when the emir appointed a Jewish governor to rule over a province undo your lies. As do the words of Maimonides in indicting your death cult.

      • J.

        Didn’t Hitler admire the muslims for their fascist ideology and common ground hatred of the Jews, that he partnered up with the grand mufti of palestine to persecute the Jews? I’m guessing the time that muslims, jews and christians lived in peace was during the early years of islam back when muhammad was trying to convince both Jews and Christian that he was a prophet, but then latered slaughtered them/enslaved them through means of the sword. Islam is a fascist ideology so fascist that it is used by despot leaders to control people, as well as grant provisions for perversions (sex slavery, polygamy) and unequal rights towards women (were a womens testimony is only half that of a mans despite empirical evidence)

      • lith4788

        Additionally, religious tolerance meant that non-Muslims were second class citizens subject to specific laws which restricted their lives and were also subject to a special tax levied on them for being non-muslim, the jizya.

        • kayla21

          So what with the Jizya Tax?

          It’s not like the Muslims are tax-free too. They have to pay zakat and do military obligation. With the non-Muslims free from military obligation, the could reach their best interest. The Jews reached their golden during Islamic rule in Spain, didn’t they?

          But then with your blind hate to Islam, you might think
          - Jews being slaves as in Egypt during Pharaoh time
          - Jews sent to concentration camp and gas chamber
          are better than paying jizya tax.

          • therealpm

            Isn’t it strange how even something as vile as a protection racket will be defended in the name of Islam? Kayla will probably be defending slavery next seeing as Mohammed kept slaves and islamic societies have always depended on slavery.

          • defcon 4

            You nailed it, a muslo-fascist advocating the persecution of the filthy kuffar in the form of paying the jizya tax.

          • defcon 4

            It’s strange that Maimonides lived in Al Andalus and didn’t share your enthusiasm for islam0fascism. As a matter of fact he took the choice of exile, when given the choice of that, death or conversion to islam by the enlightened islam0fascists who ran Al Andalus.

          • Cass2012

            Its more than a tax. It must be paid in such a way as the Dhimmi acknowledges their subservient status to Muslims. Think Blacks living under Jim Crow. That is how Dhimmis are expected to behave. The massacre of Jews in Granada in 1066 occurred because they ‘didn’t know their place’.

      • Chezwick

        To Kayla21,

        It could be argued that Muslim Andalusia was more tolerant of Jews than Christian Spain. But let us not fall under the fallacious premise that Al Andalusia was some kind of multicultural paradise. The slaughter of 4000 Jews at Grenada in 1066 at the hands of the Moors is an example of the depredations and pogroms suffered by non-Muslims there..

        Furthermore, I have a question: If the knowledge of Greco-Roman classical culture was transmitted from Islam to Christianity via Spain, why didn’t the renaissance happen there? No, the renaissance occurred in Italy….and it was brought there by the Greek refugees fleeing the Ottoman conquest of Byzantium.

        Sorry to burst your bubble.

        • kayla21

          Apple made many bugs (the latests IOS 7 unlock issue)
          US made many erronous bugs (US civil war, illegal war againts other countries, government shutdown)
          Should we say both Apple and US are total failures?

          Now as in Islam in Spain, the cordial relationship between Jews, Muslims and Christians co-exist for 800 years.
          As per Grenada tragedy, unlike Bosnian Massacre or US illegal wars, it’s not institunialized. It was the angry mobs angry at a Jewish Vizier, Joseph Ibn Naghrela.
          Lewis describes it as “Diatribes such as Abu Ishaq’s and massacres such as that in Granada in 1066 are of rare occurrence in Islamic history.”

          Now compared it to how the Catholic treated the Jews (after they took Spain)
          How the Na zi treated the Je ws
          How the West treated Indians and aborigines
          How the Chinese treated Muslims )e.g: Dungan revolt, Panthay rebellion)
          etc.

          • defcon 4

            I doubt the Spanish Inquisition killed as many Jews as the muslimes slaughtered in Grenada, but I could be wrong.
            The problem w/your argument is that what the Christians did in the past, is in the past, but muslimes are still persecuting, murdering, raping and forcibly converting people of other faiths, to some degree, in all your islam0fascist states in the here and now Fatima, so stick that in your camel’s rump and have a hump.

          • flame

            even the spanish inquisition begun because of islam. how they can otherwise get rid of taquiah muslims, pretending to be christians and conspiring against their rulers?

          • defcon 4

            That’s a depressing thought — especially in light of all the lying muslimes we’ve imported into the USA.

          • kayla21

            The causalities by burning at the stake during Spanish Inquisitions could be several tens of thousands, since 2 percent of those who came before Inquisition tribunals were burned at the stake. Not to mention those who left Spain by the The Alhambra Decree, which ordered the expulsion (300.000 to 800,000 people) and those who forced to be baptized (in order to be able to stay in Spain).

            Hmm, you might get the your impression of Islam by Alqaeda. But guess what, Alqaeda wouldn’t even exist, if US and Russia kept their hands away from Afghanistan. Alqaeda was born in 1988 in Afghanistan after the decades of war-game between the US and Russia. So, you should thank the US and Russia for creating they boogeyman.

            Name terrorist organization before Alqeda; we got Tamil Tigers (Who had killed 1 President of Sri Lanka; 1 Ex Prime Minister of India; 1 Presidential candidate; 10 Leaders of political parties; 7 Cabinet Ministers), Irgun (now likud) which operated since 1931, Lehi, IRA (responsible for 10,000 bomb (1969–1998)), etc.

          • Drakken

            The Spanish Inquisition killed less than what happened on 9/11, but thanks for playing muzzy. I do really enjoy how the Russians deal with you bloody savages, they don’t play games and have self doubt when it comes to eliminating you savages by the thousands, good riddance.

          • defcon 4

            Lehi were fighting for the freedom of the Jewish people. Islam0fascist terrorists are fighting to take away the freedom of najjis kaffir (e.g. freedom of speech or freedom of religion).

          • Cass2012

            The Muslim Brotherhood was started in the 20s or 30s. If you want to look at the source of Alqaeda’s ideology you need to go back to Qtub.

          • defcon 4

            Couldn’t it be said that the ideology of Al Qaida goes back a little bit further than that, maybe all the way back to the 7th century CE?

          • s borden

            I read that it was about 300 of 700 in total over the time of inquisition.

          • Chezwick

            Your argument has morphed from the assertion that Spain was the repository of classical Greco-Roman culture….to the assertion that Islam is more tolerant than Christianity.

            Well, let us investigate your assertion….

            Certainly Hitler’s holocaust has no parallel in human history; it was genocide on an industrial scale. If we’re honest, it could be also be argued that medieval Islam was more tolerant of Jews than medieval Christianity and its mass expulsions and expropriations.

            But let us also remember, the yellow badge was instituted not by Hitler but by Islam….that episodic pogroms and institutionalized discrimination against Jews has been a feature of life in Darul Islam since its inception….and that conversely, Jews attained a degree of freedom, power and wealth in 19th century Christendom on a level that was NEVER seen in the Islamic realm.

            In the final analysis, one thing is undeniable: TODAY, non-Christians enjoy freedoms, opportunities, and prerogatives in the West that the non-Muslims of Darul Islam can only dream of.

          • Drakken

            Funny little musaloid, you were told once so it has to be repeated, there was no tolerance from the muslims in Spain to the Christian or jew period, they never coexisted ever. You bloody savages no matter where you go, the blood always flows, if it wasn’t for the Europeans ability to adapt, improvise and overcome, you musaloids would still have us in the dark ages. As for the Serbs, they just gave you a taste of what is to come in a city in Europe near you soon enough. God Bless the Crusades.

          • Cass2012

            Lewis also says that Islam wasn’t as tolerant, nor Christian leaders as intolerant of Jews as popularly thought.

        • kayla21

          Apple made many bugs (the latest IOS 7 unlock issue)
          US made many erroneous bugs (US civil war, illegal war against other countries, government shutdown)
          Should we say both Apple and US are total failures?

          Now as in Islam in Spain, the cordial relationship between Jews, Muslims and Christians co-exist for 800 years.
          As per Grenada tragedy, unlike Bosnian Massacre or US illegal wars, it’s not institutionalized. It was the angry mobs angry at a Jewish Vizier, Joseph Ibn Naghrela.
          Lewis describes it as “Diatribes such as Abu Ishaq’s and massacres such as that in Granada in 1066 are of rare occurrence in Islamic history.”

          Now compared it to how the Catholic treated the Jews (after they took Spain)
          How the Nazi treated the Jews
          How the West treated Indians and aborigines
          How the Chinese treated Muslims (e.g: Dungan revolt, Panthay rebellion)
          etc.

      • Trace McKenna

        Islamic barbarism and piracy throughout the Mediterranean caused the dark ages. There has never been tolerance where Islam is concerned.

      • ObamaYoMoma

        Whatever you are smoking dude, please send me some.

      • N. Wasse

        Listen the Arabs INVADED Spain this was imperialism by the Arabs plain and simple unless you support imperialism so do you support imperilaism Mr Arab Wannabe? Oh darn it I just called you Mr.
        Now you tell us why did your Muslim masters invade India and it better be a good reason and is it true that millions of your Hindu ancestors were killed by your masters the Muslims that invaded India? You see charity starts at home not in far away places

      • Softly Bob

        You’re like a small child caught with chocolate round his mouth. You’re lying, we know that you’re lying, and the evidence suggests that you’re lying. but you still keep doing it.

    • kayla21

      And speaking of renaissance..

      . . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowerings of the Renaissance, has long been recognised. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern Western world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilisation, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilisation, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour – in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards. (HRH, The Prince of Wales, Islam And The West)

      ~~

      See, without Islam, here in 2013, you might still think the earth is flat because church authority tell you so.

      • Moa

        Why was there a ‘Dark Ages’? because Islamic imperialism destroyed all the knowledge and peoples of the Christian Levant/East.

        Meanwhile, ever since the 13th Century Islam has been massively anti-science and anti-enlightenment, thanks to al Ghazali. “The doors of ijtihad are shut”, is what they say – meaning Islam will always be against learning and enlightenment (until the end of the World, they claim).

        So I don’t know why you repeat nonsense Muslim propaganda that claims Islamic inspiration for *every* invention. Why not look at the reality of Islam *today*. It is an utter stranger to reason.

        • http://disqus.com/dashboard/#account Dennis Paul Habern

          You are correct in what you have imparted, but in my
          opinion, Europe remained in the Dark Ages because
          the imperialistic forces of Islam interferred with
          international trade, if you follow.

      • Drakken

        Without islam, how much further would we be in the human endeavor of progress if islam hadn’t graced itself with its horrific presence? Islam is anti-progress and a blight upon humanity.

      • Chezwick

        Sorry Katya21, but your offering is an example of naked historical revisionism There was no great cross-cultural fertilization between Christian and Muslim Spain during the 700-year reconquista; the two sides were constantly at war.

        The Renaissance occurred because Byzantium was overcome by the Turks and the intellectual and artistic patrimony of Greco-Roman culture came to Italy via the Priests, scholars and artisans of Byzantium as they fled the Ottoman juggernaut.

        I hope this was helpful in setting the record straight.

      • defcon 4

        Muslimes burned the library of Alexandria, because the muslime troglodyte leader said something to the effect that if the books aren’t about islam then why not burn them, if they are about islam, then we already have them.

        • Just_me_and_God

          Real Close defcon 4
          The Arab army led by Amr ibn al ‘Aas sacked the city of
          Alexandria in 640 or 642 after the Byzantine army was defeated at the Battle of Heliopolis. When the commander Amr ibn al-Aas asked the Caliph Umar (also spelled ‘Omar’) on what to do with the library he gave the infamous answer: “They will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, in which case they are superfluous.” It is said that the Arabs subsequently burned the books to heat bathwater for the soldiers. Burning and destruction of the Library of Alexandria was reported to be the first act of sacking after Amr ibn al ‘Aas forces entered the city. It was also said that the Library’s collection was still substantial enough at this late date to provide six months’ worth of fuel for the baths. There is some controversy as to all of this being entirely factual, but the fact remains that the Muslims under al ‘ Aas did the final burning and destruction of the library and destroy all of the ancient manuscripts in the 640s.

          See: Did Omar order the burning of Alexandria Library? http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/op-ed/did-omar-order-the-burning-of-alexandria-library/

          Often, there was a practical Islamic relevance to science. Astronomy could be used to work out the proper direction for prayer.
          Mathematics was needed for dividing property according to the Islamic Sharia law of inheritance.
          Although science flourished under Arab-Islamic patronage, by no means all the important figures in science were Muslims, or even Arabs.

          • defcon 4

            Islam never produced a Volta, a Newton, a Galileo.

          • Just_me_and_God

            They did produce millions of cutthroat murderers!

          • defcon 4

            I left out a lot of other people I admire from the kaffir world: Einstein, Mendelssohn, Aaron Copeland, Martin Luther King, J.S. Bach, Beethoven, Zev Jabotinsky, Meir Kahane, Hillel, Yeshua, Maimonides etc.

          • N. Wasse

            There is no doubt that Arab historians were liars and the Omar tradition was also used in the claim that the Arabs did burn the library of Ctisephon in Iran and indeed Western scholarship now agree that the fate of the library of Alexandria was as follows
            1. The Mother Library was located in the sea side district and was destroyed in 42 BCE
            2. The Daughter Library was located in the Serapeum in the Rakoti district and it was destroyed in 391 CE
            3. However the books never disappeared and there was a third library called the Alexandrian Academy run by the great Greek philosopher Olympiodorus who died in 570 CE or some 70 years before the Arab invasion of Egypt and it seems that his academy had thousands of volumes

            So could it be that the library that Arab historians were writing about was the Alexandrian Academy? Which if true would mean that the Arabs indeed destroyed one of the libraries of Alexandria

            I do believe that the real disaster brought on by Islam is that the Greek language was a dead language in Egypt in the 9th century and this made these books of Greek learning of no use

          • Just_me_and_God

            EXCELLENT!
            I had never heard of this.
            Thanks for posting!

          • Just_me_and_God

            EXCELLENT!
            I have never heard that part
            Thanks for posting!

            This is what happened TO Europe and the Middle East, by Islam by incremental stages of development.
            Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner – YouTube
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IsTLyjPzTU

          • N. Wasse

            Great video and this is indeed what Henri Pirenne’s thesis is all about and it is as follows: it was Islam (and not the migrations of the Goths and Vandals and Huns) that destroyed the classical civilizations of the late antique world and dragged the Middle East and Europe into the dark ages for 300 years

            Take the case of Egypt where the Greek language became a dead language in Egypt by the 9th century and the books of Greek learning had no readers and scribes had no reason to copy these treasures and that was the end of Greek learning in Egypt as the Arabs wanted that all communications with their governors be in Arabic

      • SKPeterson

        Somewhat wrong, wrong and wrong. The Arabs destroyed far more of the texts of ancient Greece and Rome (and Persia) than they preserved. Much of the works of ancient Greece were actually socked away in places like Greece, as well as Italy and Ireland. Did the Muslims contribute? Yes, but not that much. Further, Charles is not an historian and should never be quoted as an authoritative source. Finally, the “everyone thought the earth was flat” idea is not true in the slightest, except for maybe only the least educated of post Renaissance Europeans. They knew the world was round, the problem was that they were using Ptolemy’s estimates of circumference (oh, wait how could they have relied upon that if it was only the Arabs who had the ancient Greek information?) rather than Eratosthenes more accurate estimates; they thought the distances between Western Europe and Asia were much shorter. Columbus went to his grave believing not that he’d discovered new continents, but that he’d merely reached some outer islands of eastern Asia.

        • Just_me_and_God

          Stealing this EXCELLENT info for my web site!

      • defcon 4

        You know what goes well with muslime lies? A steaming mug of healthy, tasty camel urine! Prophet recommended, prophet approved! Have you had your mug today?

      • Chasmania

        Most, if not virtually all, were simply stolen knowledge from more advanced societies which the muslims then passed off as their own.

      • Trace McKenna

        Of the 22 scholars that translated Greek texts into Arabic, 20 were Syrian Christians. Islam contributed nothing to the world other than death.

        • defcon 4

          But the quantity of death they contributed (and are contributing) has a quality all its own.

        • N. Wasse

          Where did you get the 22 number from?

          Members of Two Nestorian families in 9th century Baghdad translated the Greek learning from Greek to Syriac and then to Arabic and they are the Hunein Ibn Ishaq and his family and the Bukhtishoes (sp?)
          No Arab or Persian was involved in this process

      • Just_me_and_God

        You better learn some history of Islam!

        The Moslems had overrun most of Western Asia, including
        much of India – Hindu lands, Southern Europe including Spain and Sicily, parts of France and Italy, all of North Africa to the Atlantic …. everything all around the Mediterranean Sea.

        Moslem armies had conquered Syria, Persia, Palestine,
        Egypt, North Africa, Spain, Sicily, Southern Italy, Cyprus, Rhodes, Sardinia, Majorca, Crete, and Malta which had been some of the most heavily Christian areas in the world. They attacked Rome and came within 100 miles of Paris before being pushed back.

        It was the survivors of Islam’s conquests that had been subjugated by Islam (Dhimmis) and the forced ‘converts’ to Islam from all these overrun countries, which they called ‘Mawali’ that brought the Science that THEY knew, TO Islam.

        From: http://www.pineapplefish56.net/Moslem_Science.html
        Near the beginning of the history of Islam, the Moslems
        invaded the Byzantine and Persian empires. At that time the very little that could be called as “Moslem Science”; was then greatly advanced because the Umayyad Caliph relied on Mawalis (Educated forced converts to Islam) Many of the Mawalis had much of the knowledge of science that was known to Egyptians, Zoroastrians, Hindus and much of what was previously known by the Romans and the Ancient Greeks. The Islamic Rulers commanded them to run their Islamic empire for them, as these people were forced to convert or die. Mawali astronomy got a big boost as India was far and away the most scientifically advanced in those areas in the world at that time. By drawing on a variety of manuscripts – Greek, Roman, Hindu, and Persian – Many of those texts were translated into Arabic and taken everywhere that Moslems controlled. The manuscripts from the Library of Alexandria in Egypt were burned by Moslems with a devastating loss of the world’s accumulated repository of knowledge as it had been since ancient times.

        Before the invention of the printing press, any manuscript was priceless, and the Library of Alexandria was a genuine treasure
        house.

        From: Myth of Islamic Science:- http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Myth%20of%20Islamic20Science.html

        The fact is that it should be called the “Mawali Civilization” or “Mawali Science,” since it was mostly from among the converts
        to ‘Islam’ (Mawali), that these sciences evolved.

      • truebearing

        To put it mildly, you’re full of crap. Take your Muslim lies and shove them where your men seek pleasure from their camels.

      • kT TK

        Wherever islam seizes power, the dark ages return

        • defcon 4

          It’s always interesting that islam0nazis think the success of Western civilisation is somehow geographic, rather than ideological.

          • kT TK

            Islamothuggees are busy busy lying and rewriting their brutal bloodsoaked history

      • http://disqus.com/dashboard/#account Dennis Paul Habern

        I will have to agree with what you have imparted, but what caused
        the Muslims to lose their sense of progression? For some
        reason, after the Industrial Revolution in England, and perhaps
        earlier, Islam loses its quest in competing in the institutions that
        can call it a peaceful civilization. Today, the entire planet is
        quite aware of the meaning of Isalm: Violence and subjugation.
        Today, Islam is not a religion, but a CULT, manufactured by
        cult clerics that desire to keep the Middle East in the clutches
        of prehistoric history where male domination is law. Islam is
        a dictatorial Cult where fear reigns supreme. Religions are
        comprises of compassion and love for their fellow man, while
        Islam is constantly at war with their enemies or amongst
        themselves, therefore, how does one explain Islam’s sense
        of aggressiveness? Personally, I believe that Islam is jealous
        of what the West has accomplished using the conflict between
        Israel and Palestine as a prime example. When the Isralei’s
        first landed on the State of Israel, there was nothing but arid
        waste, but through the desires of the Jews to reside in a more
        hospitable land, they used their ingenuity to overcome the
        hazards of the desert and scientifically devised methods to
        maintain a modern life-style, not one that mirrored their
        desert enemies, if you follow. When the Israelies returned
        certain landed areas to the Palestinians, it was a flourishing;
        but today, those same flourishng areas are now waste lands,
        similar to the areas maintained by our American Blacks, if you
        follow. In reality, the Muslims and the Blacks bring nothing
        positive to the table, but they are keene on implementing
        their demands upon the societies that they invade. Therefore,
        a medical study is required to be conducted to ascertain why
        Blacks and Muslims remain agressive and refuse to assimilate
        into the Mores of Western Civilzation? And now you know the
        rest of the story. Or do you?

        • defcon 4

          No but I’m sure stormfront does, maybe you should go back there.

      • N. Wasse

        Your Allah still thinks that the earth is flat as in Q79:30 so is the earth flat as Allah claims?

      • Softly Bob

        Funny, because the Koran tells us that the Earth is flat and the Bible tells us that the Earth is round!

    • truebearing

      That would be camel and buggy…but your point is accurate, nonetheless.

  • Can’t Buy Me Glove

    The “religion of peace” is a plague.

  • mgk

    “…the battle-hardened Frankish king Charles…” Charles was not King of the Franks. He was the power behind the throne, Mayor of the Palace.

  • canalway

    her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mohammed.”

    Does this imply the Muslims don’t perform circumcision on 8 day old male babies as is practiced in the Judeo/Christian tradition. The simple question is: Are Muslim men circumcised? Does anybody have an answer to this question?

    • alihusaini

      Yes, Muslim males are circumcised. But you are wrong about the “Judeo-Christian tradition”. Jew of course do circumcise, but not so in Christianity. We do circumcise here in the US, but that is purely medical. Circumcision is not a widely used practice among most other Christians the world over.

      • N. Wasse

        But what Ali the Arab wannabe does not realize is that his so called Allah is silent about male circumcision (or the female variety loved by Muslims and called by the so called prophet of Islam: makruma) in the Qur’an and that early on the Muslim ulama realized that the source of the male variety belongs to the layer that they called al-Isra’eeliat (or those traditions that got into Islam from the Jews!) Did you learn something new today Mr Arab wannabe?

        So you tell us if Allah is that smart how come Muslim boys are born with foreskins? It must be that your so called Allah says after the birth of every Muslim boy: I messed up again! ooops foreskin has to go.

        Your Allah cannot get it right

        • alihusaini

          He he he, I got the trash all fired up! Yipeee!!

          • N. Wasse

            You still did not answer my question: If your so called Allah is the best of those that create (it makes you wonder who are the other creators?) How come Muslims boys are born with foreskins? Any guesses?

          • N. Wasse

            Oh I forgot why is your Allah silent about male as well as female circumcision in the Qur’an? Do you have a direct phone line with Allah and if so can you ask him? Oh darn it Allah is an Arab he does not speak neither English nor Urdu right? Sign language will do

          • defcon 4

            Don’t be too impatient. It can take a lot of time to come up w/decent fallacies of argumentation, evasions and lies.

      • Moa

        Islam is derived from ‘Judeo-Christianity’ because Islam originated as a derviative of the heretical Arian Christian sect. Christianity itself was a heretical sect of Judaism. And I’m sure ancients considered Judiasm as a heretical sect of the Levantine polytheist belief system that included El.

        Islam is a heresy of a heresy. Man-made of course, there is *zero* reputable scientific evidence for any of these superstitions being true. In fact, the scientific evidence shows their statements to be verifiably false eg. the rubbish in the Qur’an about semen being created in a man’s spine; or the sun settling in the West in a pool of mud:
        http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

        The claims are so completely ridiculous that it is a wonder that anyone in the 21st Century is retarded enough to believe the nonsense that children see though (and must be indoctrinated for years to accept against their inherent assessment that it is manufactured bunk).

      • defcon 4

        I think the circumcision is performed on all muslimes, but it’s more along the lines of a lobotomy.

        • alihusaini

          Ahhh, there you are defcon 4! I was wondering when we would read your words of wisdom.

          • N. Wasse

            So do you agree with him? I see now do you think that we should tell the Sunnis that you Ali are making fun of Islam after all they regard your likes a a kaffir right?

            So while waiting is it true as we are told by the Shia like you that ‘Aisha used to cheat on Muhammad? Is that true?

          • alihusaini

            I truly do love to sit back and giggle my butt off reading your wacked out posts!! I love how you keep trying,trying so hard I might add,to figure “who” I am out. Ha ha ha!! And I get a kick at you trying to get a rise out of me!!It won’t happen!!Ha ha ha!But keep trying there buddy boy!!!

          • defcon 4

            Did you remember to wipe w/an odd number of stones this morning?

          • N. Wasse

            So you still did not answer my question: Did ‘Aisha the 6 year old wife of your so called prophet cheat on him? And would you allow you 6 year old daughter to marry a dirty old man of 53? A yes or no will do And was Omar Ibn al-Khatab a sodomite Mr Arab wannabe?

            Oh and would drinking camels urine cure all disease as your so called prophet said?

            Now it is your chance to make a fool of yourself again. Go!

          • alihusaini

            Obsess much?

          • N. Wasse

            You still did not answer my questions: How come Muslim boys are born with foreskins? and did ‘Aisha cheat on Muhammad? And was Omar ibn al-Khatab a sodomite?
            Now it is your chance to make a fool of yourself again! Go!

          • alihusaini

            You’re too f*ckin stupid for an answer!!

          • defcon 4

            Hassan chop!

          • N. Wasse

            You see the one who is stupid is anyone who believes that an Arabian warlord and caravan raider spoke to an Arabian deity via an angel and that the Qur’an is a miracle (when it is a vile book) and that there are creatures called Jinn and that there are winged horses aka al-Buraq

            So you see the stupid seems to be you

          • N. Wasse

            Oh I forgot so it seems that you agree that ‘Aisha cheated on Muhammad and Omar was a sodomite right? Now do you think I should tell the nut cases where you live that you are saying that?

          • defcon 4

            Go ahead, I’m armed n’ angry, beatch.

          • N. Wasse

            You made a fool of yourself again.

          • defcon 4

            I’m sure you would much rather be giggling over our beheaded bodies, much like your prophet did.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Baker/100003138241650 Richard Baker

    Let’s hear it for Charles Martel!!! Where is the modern day Charles? The war between Moslems and Europe IS coming.

  • N. Wasse

    Henri Pirenne the Belgian historian believed that there really was no golden age of Islam and that the Arab invasions that started in 633 CE were the catalyst that destroyed the classical civilizations of antiquity and the end result was Europe (as well as the civilized non Arab Middle East) was dragged into the dark ages that lasted for three centuries. And the point here is that the Arab invasions were no more than looting and total destruction of the civilized world of late antiquity

    Islam should be viewed now as the cultural imperialism and barbarism of the Arabs

  • margstar

    And the fight continues today, unfortunately. As a Christian though we’ve been shown the ending and it’s all good.

  • kayla21

    It doesn’t take Islam to destroy the earth you know. Men will do that to themselves.

    Rwanda Civil War (800.000)
    Congo Civil War (5.400.000)
    First World War (37 million )
    Second World War( 60 million)
    American civil war (800.000)
    Red Indians killed in North America (>100 million)
    Indian killed in South America (>50million)
    Jozef Stalin ( 7,000,000)
    Mao Ze-Dong ( 78,000,000)

    • 68Tigers

      100 millions Native North Americans killed?

      Where did you come up with that number? The American Civil war, was 600,000+ dead.

      I see you didn’t include Hitler in your list.

      • Just_me_and_God

        Dem/Libs make up numbers as needed, on the fly!

      • flame

        ah, they counted South and Central America as well, just forgot to state that Native American population here wasnt wiped out at all. just tiny little omission, to make Western civilisation look worse, you cant be surprised with those Lib_dem janissaries.

    • JTK

      The estimated population of North America, excluding territory
      of Mexico, was only 2-7 million at the time of Columbus. The numbers went down later
      predominantly due to infectious diseases, brought by Europeans, to which Indians
      didn’t have immunity.

      • SKPeterson

        There may have been larger numbers as recent estimates have indicated (see the book 1491 for example), but you’re right: placing the deaths of the native populations of the America’s alongside the wars and other mass murders of history is a major category error.

        • JTK

          How larger? What is a “Book 1491″? In the times before
          American Revolution most of the Indians were hunters-gatherers. Except in the Southwest, where they had some primitive agriculture, Indians required a vast territory
          to make a living. Area of US is 3,794,101 Sq. miles, including Alaska. Assuming, there were 7 million of Indians hunting there. This is about half of square mile for each. Every hunter knows, this is not enough to survive.

        • JTK

          I got the book on my Kindle now. I will hold my opinion till later.
          Thanks

          • SKPeterson

            It’s a good book. It provides a good overview of the societies that existed in the Americas prior to the Europeans coming in. The main story is exploration and discovery, disease spread, collapse of native societies, Europeans think America is a wilderness, etc.

          • JTK

            I was looking for real history; instead I got another “PC” fantasy.
            In this age of multiculturalism, it is difficult to find an objective, well researched, book about
            Native Americans history that sticks to the reality and facts.

          • SKPeterson

            Not quite sure what you mean about PC fantasy. It’s a recap of modern archaeology and is pretty credible froma scientific point of view. And I say that as a scientist. Try reading “Cahokia” by Timothy Pauketat. It is a recap of the archaeological study of the Cahokian mound builder society that existed around St. Louis ca. 1400 or before. Interesting stuff on the connections to Mexico and other native American cultures arising afterwards. A good history of the post-European contact would be a focus on the transformative nature of the horse. A good book in that regard would be “Autumn of the Summer Moon” about the Comanches and the war for Texas and Oklahoma. Good stuff.

          • JTK

            So far I read about one hundred pages. I think that the author exaggerates importance
            and romanticizes Indian cultures and unfairly criticizes Europeans which is typical
            for “Political Correctness”. The
            positive influence of Europeans is totally missing. The book would be better if
            it contained more science and archeology and less historic speculation. Perhaps
            I will finish this book later; after reading “A History of The American People”
            by Paul Johnson.

    • N. Wasse

      Oh you forgot and 60-90 Million Hindus (your ancestors right?) were killed raped and enslaved by your Arab masters that invaded India right?

      For the readers: The Hindu Genocide inflicted on the people of India by the Muslim imperialists over a period of 500 years must be number one crime in the history of humanity

      • defcon 4

        The latest addition to the body count being the 2.5 million to 3 million Hindus slaughtered by muslimes in Bangladesh, in the 1970′s, while the world did NOTHING.

      • Trace McKenna

        As well as the 120 million black Africans murdered through the Islamic slave trade, where 1 in 5 died.

    • Moa

      Why not mention the numbers of people killed by Islam, kayla21?

      An estimated 270 MILLION killed by Islam and BILLIONS enslaved, and increasing *every day* http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

      That number would make even the socliast murderers blush (Hitler, Stalin, Mao)

    • lith4788

      Stalin is responsible for over 30 million deaths. And Hitler, not on this list, for 5-6 million at minimum.

    • alihusaini

      Kayla21, you are fighting a losing battle here.This website is produced by hate-mongers for hate-mongers. I just love to come to mess with them because it is sooooo easy to get people with small, fearful minds all fired up.

      • N. Wasse

        “hate mongers for hate mongers” Is this the so called Islamophobia? But wait your Allah plans every thing so if you kuffar are Islamophobes we can only blame Allah so are you blaming Allah Ali the Arab wannabe? A yes or no will do

        • Just_me_and_God

          You who are so exquisitely attuned to being the monitors of “homophobia” and “Islamophobia,” find no offense whatsoever in “Christophobia.”

          “Islamophobia” gets all the attention, but it’s “Infidelophobia” that quietly racks up over 10,000 dead bodies each year.

          We are NOT ISLAMOPHOBIC… WE ARE ISLAMOREALISTIC.

      • defcon 4

        Islam is allah about hate. Hatred of the najjis kaffir and, in particular, hatred of Jews. So have yourself a nice, warm mug of healthy camel urine and relax zabiba boy.

        • Just_me_and_God

          Anyone stupid enough to go out and drink camel piss, just
          because some idiot who “claims” he is “god’s messenger” says to do so…. You just might be stupid enough to be a Moslem.

          Then you have to consider all of the inbreeding that has
          been going on for the last 1400 years, might just cause some added stupidity to the whole lot.

          Inbred Ba’athist-Turds! Shi’ite Heads!

        • alihusaini

          Ahhhh defcon 4, I went to bed last night feeling all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that you were thinking about me.

          • Drakken

            So your boyfriend had fun with you last night ?

          • alihusaini

            No,I had fun with youuuuuuuuuuuu!!!Big Boy!!

          • defcon 4

            I thought only little boys and girls were the object of a mujadeen’s desires?

          • Just_me_and_God

            Anyone stupid enough to go out and drink camel piss, just
            because some idiot who “claims” he is “god’s messenger” says to do so….
            You just might be stupid enough to be a Moslem.

            Then you have to consider all of the inbreeding that has
            been going on for the last 1400 years, might just cause some added stupidity to the whole lot.

            Inbred Ba’athist-Turds! Shi’ite Heads!

          • defcon 4

            Are you sure you didn’t wake up wet?

      • ServosT

        I hate Islam. It’s the most rational hatred there is. Are you a Koran trained killer or just a cheerleader for jihad?

        • alihusaini

          I’m the Muslim that will be moving next door to you and building a mosque just down the street just because I can!

          • ServosT

            Great, I’ll invite you over for some BBQ ribs and a couple of beers. I’ll introduce you to my blond wife and two beautiful little girls, you can point me in the direction of the bag you keep your wife in. You can meet my two dogs. You can explain to me your preference of rape or acid attack when meeting infidel women in the streets and I’ll show you my marksmanship qualifications and my gun collection. Is your mosque going to be funded by the terrorist Wahhabis of Saudi, the soul crushing Muslim Brotherhood or the wild eyed fanatics of Shiite Iran?

          • alihusaini

            Great, I’ll bring my wife, who is not kept in a bag, my two German Shepherds and my guns and we can do target practice together.

          • N. Wasse

            Is your “wife” Reza Aslan? or are you his wife?

          • defcon 4

            I like death metal. I like it loud. I frequently have all night parties consisting of members of the Hells Angels. Lot’s of beer. Some of the beer cans and B-B-Q spare ribs might end up in your backyard. We’ll make good neighbors for ya muzzie bastages.

          • N. Wasse

            And I’m the kafir that will be moving next door to you BBQ everyday a big fat pig and building a Church and a Synagogue and a Hindu temple and A Sikh temple and Buddhist temple with all the idols I can put my hands on so I can drive you and your so called Allah out of your minds

            Now the question for today: Is it true that camels urine as your so called prophet cures all diseases?

          • defcon 4

            There’s an even more bizarre islamic concept revolving around the wings of flies.

          • N. Wasse

            Or even worse the Shyatan hides in your nostrils at night

      • Just_me_and_God

        You who are so exquisitely attuned to being the monitors of “homophobia” and “Islamophobia,” find no offense whatsoever in “Christophobia.”

        “Islamophobia” gets all the attention, but it’s “Infidelophobia” that quietly racks up over 10,000 dead bodies each year.

        We are NOT ISLAMOPHOBIC… WE ARE ISLAMOREALISTIC.

        • alihusaini

          You must be defcon4 and Drakken’s sister.I didn’t know there were three girls! WOW!! Anyway, you will love to hate me. I am your trolling, muslime, pedo, unamerican, freedom hating, ladda dadda dadda, you know the song and dance. Don’t mind me, I’ll be that guy over there laughing and giggling at you girls as you fight over who is gonna wear what dress to church.

          • Drakken

            Today you laugh, tomorrow you will be fleeing for your life to escape the coming purge.

          • alihusaini

            Instead,I will be building a mosque in your neighborhood while your impotent a$$ watches with dismay, continually dreaming of the day you could possibly be anything more than a dumba$$ moron.

          • defcon 4

            Didn’t you just write this 5 minutes ago?

          • Drakken

            That mosque you would try to build will make a wonderful bonfire.

          • defcon 4

            You’re not worth hating.

          • alihusaini

            I’m worth enough for you to keep replying to my posts.

      • iluvisrael

        getting fired up is what islam’s all about – day after day there are photos of rabid, angry muzzies foaming at the mouth over some ‘offense’ to their moslem sensibilities. islam = the ‘religion’ of the perpetually outraged. maybe it’s the inbreeding.

      • Drakken

        Say hi to your uncle dad and aunty mom for us will you haji? Inbred muzzys like you are a dime a dozen.

    • Chasmania

      But the Islamic Jihadi is a particularly loathsome iteration of an age old scourge.

    • ServosT

      If you are comparing Islam to some of the most awful episodes in human history, then I agree with you. If you are comparing Mohammed to Hitler, Stalin and Mao then I agree with you…..except if course, no one is killing today in the name of hitler, Stalin or Mao.

    • ObamaYoMoma

      You accidentally left out Islamic jihad (270,000,000)

      What a moron!

      • defcon 4

        “accidentally” that must be it, he just overlooked it!

        • ObamaYoMoma

          No…he/she is just dumb! He/she is also a leftwing hack.

        • ObamaYoMoma

          Nah…he/she is just dumb!

    • Cass2012

      You’re off by about 50 millionf on Stalin. You also forgot Ghengis Khan and the tens of millions of Hindus and Budhists killed during the Muslim invasion of India.
      So what’s your point?

    • Softly Bob

      The Second World War was caused mainly by Hitler – a Jew-hating, Muslim-loving slimeball. Yes, that’s right. Hitler was an admirer of Islam. In fact a number of Nazi war criminals escaped to Arab countries and converted to Islam after the war.

  • defcon 4

    Israel and the southern Sudan seemed to be the only countries which have successfully thrown off the yoke of islamic rule lately, while others are meekly
    putting the yoke back on.

  • LindaRivera

    Islam calls for the MASSIVE breaking of God’s UNCHANGEABLE Laws given by God to His Hebrew, Jewish servant, Moses. God commanded:
    YOU SHALL NOT MURDER

    Barbaric MASS murderer and HUGE slave trader, founder of Islam, Mohammad, married a six year old child when he was in his fifties. Mohammad is regarded as the PERFECT man and role model by devout Muslims.
    The horror and terrible suffering of 1,400 years of Muslims taking slaves continues to this day in Sudan, Mauritania and other countries.

    Jihad Slavery in Sudan, with Dr Charles Jacobs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP4Fcx7AE_o

    • justquitnow

      Hardly my place to step into a believer’s quarrel…but God commanded the Jewish people to murder many times. Yahweh was more of a desert war God until the Jews many years later managed to clear out all other belief systems and Yahweh became the one and only.

      Ancient history, religions and mythology are all very interesting…

      • LindaRivera

        God told the Jewish people to defend themselves in WAR.
        I am deeply appreciative of God’s great LOVING KINDNESS and MERCY in the Jewish Old Testament part of the Bible. The Ten Commandments: YOU SHALL NOT MURDER. God gave the Ten Commandments for our protection.
        For many years, MANY THOUSANDS of Britain’s terrorized non-Muslim children have been gang-raped, tortured, forced into prostitution and sexually ENSLAVED by cruel Muslims. The children were stolen-seized, held against their will and horribly violated. Their lives destroyed by dirty, DEMONIC Muslim monsters. CRUEL, selfish Muslim MONSTERS destroyed the children’s childhood. Destroyed their youth; their hopes and their dreams. And filled their lives with pain. Every rape is a kidnapping. God gave the DEATH SENTENCE for kidnapping:

        Bible, Exodus 21:16 He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.

        DEATH SENTENCE FOR ALL RAPISTS IN ALL COUNTRIES!

        • justquitnow

          Sure OK whatever…we can talk about the Old Testament another time when you’re not screaming about rape and murder. Good luck getting your message out…rape and slavery are terrible and the way you approach it is sure to help.

          • defcon 4

            Strangely you rant and rave about 2500 year old atrocities committed by Jews, but have F’ALL to say about the muslimes who are doing it in the here and now.

          • justquitnow

            I denounce the rape and murder of innocents…in fact I denounce any immoral act done by any human being to another human being, especially that which is done in the name of religious belief. Maybe you could pass on to Linda a little biblical knowledge about said atrocities since she doesn’t know they exist.

          • defcon 4

            WHo cares? They happened more than two millenia ago.
            I like your denunciation too, it neatly evades the fact that islam advocates such acts. Screw you.

          • Just_me_and_God

            Funny you should mention “innocents”!
            I wonder about you.
            Mud-Slimes believe that ALL Mud-Slimes are “innocent” and that all “unbelievers” are all “guilty”!

            Therefore when you proclaim “I denounce the rape and murder of innocents” it could be very easily said, that you really mean “I denounce the rape and murder of Mud-Slimes”

          • justquitnow

            see below troll. If you and defcon 4 aren’t the same person you should get together and make out sometime.

          • justquitnow

            You’re adorable. The whole shtick…”mud-slimes” the reference delusion, the way you davinci-code everything…you’re like a sick little puppy. You can’t decide whether you want to hold him close and tell him everything’s going to be OK, or put him out of his misery.

          • defcon 4

            Interesting that you didn’t respond to his assertion though.

      • LindaRivera

        STOP SEXUAL SLAVERY! Stop the MASSIVE Muslim RAPE WAR waged across Europe and Britain on defenseless non-Muslim females! Many victims only eleven years old. Permanently end all Muslim immigration!

        Muslim Gangs Drug & Rape Children All Over The UK – Britain Finally Starts To Wake Up
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4W6I054Dao

      • LindaRivera

        There is NO ONE to PROTECT Britain’s CHILDREN! We desperately need Paul Weston’s counter-jihad party, LIBERTY GB
        http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/

        British Schoolgirl’s Testimony – Muslims Threaten Children With Violence & Rape Outside School Daily
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO1yN-eKjmo

      • defcon 4

        How many Jewish terrorist organisations are killing gentiles in the name of Judaism again?

        • Just_me_and_God

          Ah, ….none!
          As they say in Hawaii…. Geev’em Defcon4!

      • Cass2012

        I’m not a ‘believer’ either, but, if you are referring to the biblical stories, God’s instructions to kill and defeat enemies of the Jewish people were specific to the occasion. On the other hand, in the Koran Allah instructs that Muslims are to kill Jews to the end of time, and that they are to fight to extend the rule of Islam to the entire world.

        • justquitnow

          I’ve never really studied the Koran. Islam is an ugly and senseless religion that has remained in its primitive state to spite the advancement of society. That being said, while they dress better and have more refined societal tastes, believers of all stripes are really the problem. They fuel each other. You may not be a believer, but most of these people not only hate Islam (with passion) but think that it’s because they have the correct god and religion.

          • defcon 4

            Then move to a muslime state DB, and enjoy the “more refined societal tastes” of Somalia, Pakistain, Bangladesh, the Sudan, Libya, Iraq, Syria or Soddy Barbaria.

          • justquitnow

            You didn’t get any of that did you? You’re like a belligerent drunk. You really need to find someone that loves muslims and islam to argue with. I say I think its senseless and ugly and you say “well…(hiccup) why don’t you move there!”

            Sober up arsewipe.

          • Just_me_and_God

            You sound too much like an apologist for Islaam

          • justquitnow

            You just think your god is the real god don’t you? I say Islam is bad you say it’s evil…I say it’s ugly and senseless and you say it’s a murderous cult. You win the juvenile “I hate Mud-Slimes more than you” contest. Now f*ck off troll.

          • defcon 4

            Who wrote muslimes “dress better (hah!, what a laugh), and have more refined societal tastes” dirtbag?

          • justquitnow

            “believers of all stripes”…should have been believers in the west..because I was specifically talking about non-Muslims. But I probably made it “all stripes” so you wouldn’t say that I was saying Christians were the real problem. But the point was that the faiths fuel each other. That paragraph denigrates Islam as primitive and it’s followers as having no style….how in the world except through deliberate dickishness, can you get things so wrong? Maybe your a muslim and this is you overcompensating to fool us?

          • Just_me_and_God

            No mater what religion, or NO religion a person may profess, Islaam is a murderous cult, that is willing to do ANYTHING to get its way, and that is undeniable to anyone who has taken the time to properly investigate its history, as well as what is happening today.

          • justquitnow

            Now you’re going to troll me….great. What religion are you if you don’t mind me asking. Which god?

          • defcon 4

            He doesn’t owe you any answer whatsoever. His words stand on their own. His argument doesn’t rely in any way on what his faith is.

      • Just_me_and_God

        While you may or may not be correct on your simplistic overview of Ancient History, Mud-Slimes are RIGHT NOW killing many hundreds of thousands of people every year, both Kafirs (unelievers) and other Mud-Slimes from different Mud-Slime sects.
        Islaam has been at war with the entire world since it was begun!

        • justquitnow

          Yeah I know man, I know. I was just correcting a common error among believers that the Old Testament god of the Jews was Mr. Sunshine. I know Muslims doing bad things…but that’s not what I was talking about.

          • defcon 4

            Have you ever heard of argument by red herring dirtbag? You should, because that’s exactly what you’re employing to defend islam.

          • justquitnow

            If we were having a debate and you were arguing that Islam was violent and I was arguing that is was peaceful, then maybe….but since I was just commenting about Jewish monotheism in ancient Israel (something I was studying recently) and you are arguing that I don’t think Islam is evil enough for your tastes, this is more of a case of you being a #%^@*( than me arguing something.

      • paendragon

        Yes, and just note how the Jews DID manage to clear out all the war-god stuff and, through the largest sect of Reformed Judaism, aka Christianity, posit that the One God was universal, for all humans. Basically, JHVH went on from being a big bad scary unknown and unknowable god of pain to become the hope of no pain. Thus their version of a God became the first glimmer of Objectivity and the hope for science and rationality in the world.

        Regressive Islam, however, then did the exact opposite: declared that NO! God wasn’t hope, much less Love (as Moses had put it); he was still only the big bad scary unknown and unknowable god of pain, not to be admired, Reasoned With (as in Isaiah) or Loved, but ONLY to be fered and obeyed! Islam reduced its god back to capricious painful subjectivism, from HaShem back to ShitHappens.

        Because their only declared quality is its indivisibility and their only main sin is to pretend to associate their god’s unity with others (division) they assert that their god is not only both omniscient and omnipotent, but also omnipresent, and this is the perfect predetermined-force excuse alibi for theor own criminal desires: If and when they get away with committing a crime, then it isn’t a crime at all, because obviously their god wanted it to happen, since he allowed it to!

        But when their god is only generally “Everything!” then it’s also only specifically “Nothing!” (Existentialism IS Nihilism)!

        And the result is that islam’s “allah” is literally, infinitely worse than the Jews’ JHVH, who only ordered the Jews to commit a few local genocides, limited in time to ONCE, and in space to HERE, in the environs of the land of Israel.

        Contrast that BAD old testament genocidal stuff, to where Muhammad read or was told about it, declared it all to be GOOD, and then extrapolated it to be god’s will, for the Jihad to ALWAYS apply to EVERYWHERE.

        Capisce?

        ;-)

        • justquitnow

          Yeah, I wasn’t talking about Jesus, I was talking about much earlier. You’re right though, if I were in the market for an all knowing deity, I wouldn’t pick Allah.

          • paendragon

            Exactly!
            ;-)

  • ObamaYoMoma

    Bravo!

  • EVILHASWONAGAIN

    The only good muslim is a dead muslim, truer words have never been spoken….

  • De Doc

    Charles Martel is a great study of military genius and his brilliance at Poitiers was one such example. He is credited with developing the mighty military machine of the Frankish Kingdom that set Europe’s future for centuries afterwards.

  • Sally

    Charles “The Hammer” Martel saved the world. If only people would realize now that muslims are again on the warpath and have repeatedly stated their intentions to have the world ruled by Islam. We must repel them to save western civilization once again. The Battle of Tours is a reminder that we can defeat them if we have the will, and Charles Martel is a needed energizer for that will.

  • ML NJ

    In 732 at the Battle of Tours,
    Charles Martel defeated the Moors.

  • craigTX

    Today’s conflict is one-in-the-same of the Tours battle many years ago. We are at war with Satan.

    • chris heath

      Well, some of us , at least, the left, the politically correct, the multi-cultural, and the criminally insane, are not. Some rely on Marxist doctrine (if they do not have the economic means, they can never rise in society). Others rely on the state (They looked after us in the second world war).

      But this ‘war’ is on a totally different level. And I believe that Mohammed used similar tactics – where head on violence would not work, use subterfuge, sedition, propaganda, lies, diversionary tactics, coercion, alignment of aims ( as in convert criminals in prison to Islam), diplomacy ( gain the ‘ear’ of someone in high office). All of which are being used in the west. Small gains toward acceptance of Shar’ia beards for schoolboys, headscarves for girls. Great politicians ( all great historians) like Churchill, have been aware of the 2 faces of Islam, and the inherent treachery that ALWAYS exists. ‘ They are either at your feet, or at your throat’. Search ‘TROP’.

  • defcon 4

    “Cordial relationship” is that what you call dhimmitude? Is that what you call slavery?

  • defcon 4

    What Jews did, or did not do, is irrelevant to the fact of muslimes persecuting, murdering, torturing and raping people in the name of their death cult today.

    • justquitnow

      Don’t you have a picture of a dead Arab you could be jacking off to? Seriously man…@^#*@( off.

      • defcon 4

        Nah, I’d use it for target practice.

  • chris heath

    The Koran is the root cause of the problem, it was then and it is now. Why was Mohammed so insistent on the protection of the Koran? Why is it not permissible to change the Koran? (Its because of the ‘hidden’ war message.) The Koran, at the very least, propels a message of pro-creation of Muslims, and a direct command to rid the world of the ‘infidel’ ( the non-muslim). And it insists that the BIG 3, the Koran, Mohammed, and Allah, must never be criticized. Again I ask. why is that? Because under criticism, the tenuous link between the Muslim religion ( a small, but necessary part of the Koran), and the ( far more important message of Mohammed) will be ‘revealed’, and a sensible approach by any society, nation, or culture, under direct threat of Islam – would take steps to curtail the availability of the ‘ war-manual’, (because that IS what it is) – or even ban it, or allow it to exist in its ‘religion only’ version. ( OF COURSE – none of this is allowed). The mosques are simply a way to network ‘jihad’ information, under the guise of religion. (And, being religious buildings, ACCESS IS RESTRICTED TO SOME EXTENT BY SECURITY FORCES)

    That is why I admire Mohammed so much – he thought of everything, and ‘coded’ his modus operandi into the Koran, and created a protective religion at the same time.

  • Dyer’s Eve

    Capital!