Melanie Phillips’ Friendly Fire

MelanieSign the petition asking that we be allowed into the UK here.

Here is the second piece today (the first is here) from an “ally” rushing to our defense while hastening to assure the world that she is not at all like us — a position that is self-defeating no matter what one may think of us.

“The British government’s jihad against free thought,” by Melanie Phillips, June 27:

By banning from the country as extremists the American anti-jihadis Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, the Home Secretary Teresa May has not only made herself look ridiculous but has sent the enemies of the United Kingdom the message that they have it on the run.

Indeed. But here comes the kid-gloves caveat:

I do not support the approach taken by either Geller or Spencer to the problem of Islamic extremism. Both have endorsed groups such as the EDL and others which at best do not deal with the thuggish elements in their ranks and at worst are truly racist or xenophobic.

Note in the first place that the letter from the Home Office barring me from the UK said nothing at all about the EDL or “others.” (What others?) It quoted a statement of mine that Islam has a doctrine mandating warfare against unbelievers — a statement that is demonstrably true. So Melanie Phillips’ bringing up the EDL here is completely gratuitous, designed to distinguish her work from ours, and to show the British elites that she is not tainted with our taint. (Be sure to see Pamela Geller’s response here.)

In fact, the EDL has nothing racist or xenophobic about its platform, and removes such individuals from its ranks when they’re found. It is only “thuggish” in that its members fight back when attacked by Islamic supremacists. Melanie Phillips thinks that the EDL is racist and xenophobic because she has seen a thousand media reports insisting that it is. As someone who has been lied about in the same mainstream media, she ought to be a bit more skeptical of what they report. The people who claim that the EDL are racist and xenophobic are primarily the foes of the counter-jihad movement in general. I’ve seen how they lie about me; why should I believe them about the EDL? Melanie Phillips has seen how they lie about her; why should she believe them about the EDL?

Her fastidious distinguishing of herself from those among the foes of jihad and Islamic supremacism to which she objects will not win her a pass. Every last foe of jihad gets the same treatment. Phillips’ fundamental error is to think that if she distances herself from the EDL (and those shadowy “others”), Pamela Geller, and me, that the Leftists and Islamic supremacists won’t direct their fury on her, and subject her to the same campaign of smears and defamation to which they have subjected us. But they will. There are plenty of foes of “Islamic extremism” who think that if they utter nonsense about “moderate Islam” and “hijacking of religion,” that they will outflank the politically correct narrative. They don’t realize that the purveyors of political correctness really are fascist authoritarians — that is not just Spencer’s rhetorical flourish. They will give Melanie Phillips no quarter, no matter how much she concedes to them. And the more she does concede to them, the more she plays their game, the more she allows them to set the terms of the debate and define the parameters of the narrative, the more she empowers them, and sends the enemies of the United Kingdom the message that they have it on the run. That’s the fundamental problem with her friendly fire.

The result has been a serious blow to the credibility of these two writers, with particular damage being done to Spencer whose scholarship in itself is scrupulous. It has also split the defence against Islamic extremism, and handed a potent propaganda weapon to those who seek falsely to portray as bigoted extremists all who are engaged in the defence of the west against the Islamic jihad.

If anyone has “split the defence against Islamic extremism,” it is those such as Melanie Phillips and The Commentator who are careful to attack foes of “Islamic extremism” even while defending them. And the rest of this is outstandingly naive: the foes of freedom were portraying “all who are engaged in the defence of the west against the Islamic jihad” as “bigoted extremists” long before the EDL existed. What she doesn’t seem to understand is the game the Left and Islamic supremacists play: they pick a target, defame it, smear it, and demonize it, until finally it is completely marginalized. They demand that freedom fighters denounce and distance themselves from the targeted individual. Melanie Phillips is playing along with this game with alacrity. But no one of any position except their own will ultimately be acceptable them. They will just move on from the EDL to the next target, and demonize it as well, until the remaining foes of jihad denounce and distance themselves from the new target as well. Then they will pick another foe of jihad and do the same thing, until there is no one left. The worst thing foes of jihad could do in the face of this game is play it, and allow some individual or group to be destroyed on the basis of unsubstantiated claims and Leftist propaganda. But Melanie Phillips just keeps playing along.

Nevertheless, the decision to ban this duo from Britain is unjustified, oppressive and comes perilously close to lining up the British government alongside those who wish to silence defenders of the west against the jihad, making a total mockery of Britain’s understanding of just who presents a danger to the state.

Nevertheless!

Neither Geller nor Spencer remotely presents such a danger. They intended to come to Britain to join an EDL rally in Woolwich, in the wake of the barbaric murder there of Drummer Lee Rigby by two Islamists last month.Personally, I believe the EDL is not a respectable platform to join. Whether or not its rally is itself a threat to public order is, however, another issue. As far as is known, it is not being banned. It is only Geller and Spencer who have been banned from the country on the grounds that their presence is ‘not conducive to the public good’. The implication is that they will incite violence or disorder. But all the two of them do is criticise Islam, condemn jihadis and warn against the west’s failure to take seriously their machinations.

“Personally, I believe the EDL is not a respectable platform to join.” I am reminded of a time when I was in London, several years ago, and witnessed an uncomfortable scene in which a prominent English writer dressed down some EDL members with a cold fury. His accent was posh, theirs were not, and as he upbraided them it became increasingly clear that he was outraged at their insolence — that these lower class lads would dare to approach him and speak with him as if he were an equal. The impression I got then has been reinforced many times since then: that the foes of jihad in Britain often oppose the EDL for the unspoken reason that it is made up of people from a lower social class, and people of lower social classes simply do not lead acceptable movements. Years ago I knew an Englishman who had emigrated to the U.S., he told me, because Britain was such a class society that there was a certain level beyond which he could not rise, no matter what his accomplishments and abilities. British class distinctions are, I believe, behind much of the sniffing at the EDL, and readiness to accept Leftist/Islamic supremacist propaganda about it on the part of people who would otherwise reject that propaganda.

But I am an American. We don’t have social classes here. Anyone who works for the freedom of speech and equality of rights of all people, and rejects the genuine thuggishness and authoritarianism of the Left and its Islamic supremacist allies, is A-OK with me.

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  • Norman Frank

    This is one of those things for which I must say that I don’t have a dog in this fight. For one thing I don’t know anything about the EDL. Moreover even if she was wrong about her characterization of the EDL, your characterization of this women was over the top.

    • Drakken

      Every westerner has a dog in this fight, if you can’t see, your are blind to the reality that islam wants your head as well as mine for have the temerity for being an ifidel.

      • Norman Frank

        The fight above is the one that Robert Spenser has picked against Melanie Philips. I believe that both these two are fighting the good fight. There is saying that is attributed to LBG. “Never call a man a bastard because he won’t beleive you.” In other words, if you have an ally, the last thing you want to do is insult her.

      • Radford_NG

        Dog-fighting is illegal in Britain.When gangs are caught in the act,by the police,they are usually from the muslim world.

      • Suzyqpie

        Every westerner has a dog in the fight is correct. I would have thought that this Adebolajo chaps murderous rampage in Woolwich would have opened some eyes, even at the highest level of government. If Adelbolajo’s actions failed to get them out of the bleachers and on to the playing field, the vicious diatribe that he delivered holding the weapons in his bloody hands, certainly should have been the catalyst.

  • LindaRivera

    Until the day I die I will be forever grateful to EDL HEROES who held street
    demos to protest the MANY THOUSANDS of violent gang rapes, forced
    prostitution and sexual slavery of terrorized non-Muslim British
    children by Muslim MONSTERS. This terrible crime against humanity has
    been going on for over 20 years. The severely persecuted children begged
    the police for help and were ignored.

    Paul Weston, leader of Britain’s political party, Liberty GB, said of the EDL:

    “I am convinced the media broke their silence over the Muslim rape and
    grooming cases ONLY because of pressure the EDL successfully brought to
    bear via street protests.” End of quote. Paul Weston now correctly call
    this, sexual slavery, as in the outstanding article-video below.

    Paul Weston in Croydon: It’s Not Racist to Defend Your Country
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/5798-paul-weston-in-croydon-it-s-not-racist-to-defend-your-country

    The EDL are HEROES! Join the magnificent EDL! http://englishdefenceleague.org/

    Our very survival is threatened. Unless things change, within years,
    Europe and Britain will become Muslim majority countries ruled by
    barbaric Islamic sharia law where non-Muslims will have no human rights.
    Our wonderful Second World War Two heroes will have fought and died in
    vain! They fought so that we could live in freedom and safety!

    Join Paul Weston’s Liberty GB, Britain’s last great hope!
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/

  • tyke007

    The problem unfortunately is that the EDL does attract SOME nasty people who are actually unaware of the non racist, intellectual and ideological reality of what the EDL stands for. They just see a working class anti islam/immigration movement and think it’s another BNP (British national party).
    In the past they would have supported the National front and like I just said, they also follow the BNP, but the BNP rarely have rallies or demos. Nick Griffin who runs the BNP is a vile holocaust denier and racist.
    When the EDL attracts BNP supporters to their demos, it does nothing for public relations, and the fact that the EDL are anti Islam makes them so easy for the media to pass off to the masses as akin to the BNP, and even refers to them as ‘far right’. Paul Weston from the British Freedom Party had to distance himself from the EDL for this very reason and has started a new party called LibertyGB.
    However, Robert Spencer is spot on in saying it makes little difference if they want to defame you they will. Melanie Phillips, despite her huge intellect, is seen as a bit of a joke in the UK and is known as ‘Mad Mel’
    The other really unfortunate reality which is potentially a huge problem is the fact that Anders Breivik mentions Spencer in his ‘manifesto’. I know he mentions Hamas, Al queida etc etc as well, but this is such a powerful tool for these guys to use and I don’t know how you get around it.
    I have had perfectly pleasant debates with people who tell me I should read Breiviks manifesto as he says the same things I am, and it immediately makes you seem like you have extreme and racist views, so maybe we need to change the tactics again?

    • Sharon Klaff

      You know what, the Labour Party too attracts some unsavoury members, like the one who led the massive protest supporting the fatwa on Salmon Rushdie, the very same one who called on Theresa May to ban Geller and Spencer. And all political parties attract unsavoury figures. The list is too long to name, but they are the ones who get the masses to pay for their bath plugs, duck ponds, garden clearance and such; they use their positions to get visas for nannies and business patrons; they ban free speech whilst supporting those who call for the downfall of the government and death to Jews. So lets not accuse the EDL, the only group in the UK who is standing up for British life with a Judeo-Christian ethos, attracting some unsavoury hangers on when the institutions of government fail to get rid of theirs.

      • tyke007

        You miss the point. We know we are dealing with an unfair balance but we can’t keep banging on about it, yes it is unfair but how do we move forward? Because none of the mainstream political parties deals with immigration/Islam, skinhead types are attracted to the EDL and it is not great for public relations when they are seen in the papers doing nazi salutes. Whether they are infiltraters or not misses the point.
        Dealing head on with Islam is not going to be easy and all I am suggesting is that we might need to change the way we present the argument and put our heads together to find solutions to these ever changing obstacles we are all facing in this battle.
        The awful truth is that it is simply not enough to tell people the facts or win a theological argument, as generally people tend to equivocate or have selective hearing anyway, especially if they already think you are ‘far right’ or are saying what Breivik was saying. Like it or not we have an unfair disadvantage which we need to deal with.

  • Carlos SpicyWeener

    Et tu, Melanie?

  • silvergonzales

    When will that miserable island sink to the bottom of the ocean? This miserable island has been and is the source of so many awful things. Example: name the location where Karl Marx wrote Das Kapital?

    • rogerinflorida

      It is arguable that there would be no freedom at all in this world without English history.
      But the place is miserable.

    • southwood

      What an utter moron you are ! What a vile comment. You are utterly pathetic, probably a WASP hating illegal going by your name. You are pathetic, quite pathetic.

  • rogerinflorida

    Mr. Spencer sums it all up very well. The EDL certainly has some quite unpleasant members but then so do all political organizations. What is demonstrably heroic about the EDL is that it is very much a working class group, justifiably angered by the betrayal of Britain and the British people by the political elite, it is a “ground up” reaction to 60 years of treachery by both Labor and Conservative parties. As for Melanie Philips, if she were to embrace the EDL her career as a tolerated “right wing” commentator would be well and truly over and she knows it.
    I hate to say it but honestly violence is now the only solution, and it is getting that way here to.

    • objectivefactsmatter

      Who’s worse, the EDL or “Occupy Wallstreet” or any other “Occupy” variant?

      Will Occupy supporters be banned next? Please.

      It’s more pandering to jihadis. GD leftists.

      • sotheby94

        I am convinced that there is something organically, genetically WRONG with the brains of Leftists. They are wired wrong. Leftists are incapable of sensing, let alone acknowledging, real danger. They revile and slander anyone who would alert them to it. They embrace enemies and demonize allies.

        It has somehow become chic and fashionable for them to do this, as they have done over many generations. It thrills them to publicly strike poses while proclaiming their chic, treacherous idiocies. They are addicted to it. They are truly mentally defective. I’m sure this merits further research.

  • Jsjk

    Melanie Phillips lives in Britain. I think when she says that the EDL contains unsavory elements and it is not an organization which she can endorse — that, for me, carries weight — again, she lives in Britain and has first-hand info. (The leadership of the EDL sounds very much “anti-facist”, yet their grassroots? One hears that they align with neo-nazis, are repeatedly praised by Stormfront, and have a large contingent of soccer hooligans. I think the EDL has lost the PR war — so if you were living in Britain, would you wish to be aligned with fascists? I don’t know, but I understand where Melanie is coming from.)

    • john spielman

      The Nazis, in this case, IS and WILL ALWAYS BE, ISLAM! It is a fascist ideology under the guise of religion. Just look at Mohammed, its founder, he is called the “prophet with the sword” for good reason. He declared physical war on the world and meant to conquer it in the name of his demon moon god Allah
      Sharia law is an overtly apartheid system where nonmuslims, if they are allowed to live , are definitely a discriminated against second class . (Please look up the PACT OF UMAR). Those who are muslim but latter reject it must be killed under sharia law as are all including nonmuslims who criticize Mohammed, the dead murderer thief rapist misogynist liar and demon possessed pseudo prophet. (I can be killed for writing this!)

  • Gamal

    Pamela Geller distanced herself from some of the EDL people. They must have picked up some unsavory characters and idiots along the way. All groups have them. Unfortunately Melanie Philips judges the heroic EDL unfairly because of that.. That does play into the hands of the jihadists. Give Melanie a break though she generally is terrific. She messed up this time. She should should publish a correction though.

  • JackWisdom

    Any attempt to distance oneself from Pam Geller or Robert Spencer is fear of not seeming tolerant of “differences.” But I don’t see it the way Miss Phillips does. Spencer and Geller are banned for the same reason Michael Savage has been banned. These folks do not equivocate. They call violent jihad what it is. There is a game being played whereby the government publicly has a face of “tolerance” but is actually working to stop terrorism. The British and U.S. have decided not to “sound” inflammatory, and that this rhetoric will not help. Sometimes they have a point, but to silence those who are not in government from being as truthful (“inflammatory”[sic]) as they please just makes a mockery of the First Amendment.

  • Texas Patriot

    It’s hardly surprising that the truth would be banned in Britain. Just think if George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin had wanted to speak there on the virtues of democracy, equality, and freedom of speech. There is nothing really new about any of this. Tyranny loves tyranny, and the tyrants of Great Britain are probably getting just what they deserve. Eventually there will be a rebellion, the British people will rise up, and the tyrants will be thrown out. All of them.

    • warpmine

      Jesus Christ would be banned as well.

      • Texas Patriot

        Even if he miraculously appeared among them, he probably wouldn’t last very long. Jesus had an amazing way of telling everyone they had it all wrong. They’d want to kill him.

  • Chris Nicholson

    She’s British and mentally shackled by the ingrained class awareness of the people on that island. The EDL have more than their fair share of the working class who count themselves as supporters, and Robinson himself, despite being obviously bright when you listen to him, comes off as low class and uneducated.

    • Hktony

      Thank you Chris this may be why she is unable to support them. Class bias is still a major issue in the UK and the so called educated always look down on the way the working class talk, even if Tommy R., does make a lot of sense! The two groups will never be able to communicate as the middle class are unable to give credit to the working class people. They have been educated since primary schools to see themselves as different, the middle class so much more better, superior. The long and the short of it is that fighting on the street will resolve this Islamic issue. I once believed the middle class would eventually see the danger of Islam but as time goes by they seem to make more and more excuses for Islam. Of course some m.c. people can see that Islam will doom the UK but on the whole they will take a M.P. position until they have a knife to their throats.

      • ssmith

        I understand her dilemma, but betraying someone on her own side by unnecessary unwise personal attack will not be ” conducive “to the counter-Jihad movement.
        I used to admire her, now I will ignore her. she has become an embarrassment and will no doubt soon be replaced. She has sealed her own fate by buckling under to PC pressure. Another one bites the dust……
        Now , Douglas Murray is a different kettle of fish even though he is not a supporter of the EDL, he realises the issue at stake which of course is the most important, the attack on freedom of speech, not HIS personal opinions on the supporters of it :

        http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2013/06/a-gross-double-standard-over-hate-speech/

        the comments underneath are telling.

        • hippiepooter

          It’s a great shame that Mr Spencer, as well as several posters here, can’t grasp the concept of an honest difference of opinion.

          This is the sort of character association so typical of the left and Muslims – from one counter jihadist against another counter jihadist. There seems to be a huge ego or moral problem here.
          I’m hugely glad MP did make clear she opposed their support for the EDL.. The EDL are racist hooligans exploiting the threat of Islam to stoke hatred. First brown Muslims then other ethnics if things go according to plan.

          From this link below, it does appear that a problem of ego and/or morality with Mr Spencer (and M/s Geller) here. Melanie Phillips was resolute in condemning the banning order on Spencer and Geller, praised their work, but made clear for the reasons she stated that she disassociated herself from their support for the EDL.

          Take a look at the vid below and I think you may realise who the ‘snobby’ English writer is Mr Spencer was referring to, in my estimation, at least. You’ll see this writer’s reaction to some working class ruffians had nothing to do with snobbery

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uNUm9Ic_Kc

          And two years later after recounting this encounter, here, post-Woolwich, is where he is at with the EDL:-

          “the deeply troubling English Defence League, a street protest movement that often turns violent.”

          http://henryjacksonsociety.org/2013/05/28/the-london-terror-attack-was-more-than-unforgivable/

    • hippiepooter

      Chris, the comments I’ve read by a lot of Americans on this, it seems like you’ve been watching far too many black and white movie versions of Charles Dickens novels.

      Melanie Phillips *and Douglas Murray are both British, they respectively say that the EDL are “thugs”, “deeply troubling” and “violent”.

      Noone compares to their contribution to the cause of counter-jihad in Britain. Even if you do not agree with their opinions on the EDL, perhaps they deserve a bit more respect?

      Here is Melanie Phillips’ response to the insane ravings of Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer against her:-

      http://www.melaniephillips.com/a-hysterical-and-ignorant-response

      Up until this I had the utmost respect for Pam Geller and Robert Spencer as counter-jihad warriors, but now they have revealed a deeply unsavoury side to their character that goes a long way towards explaining why they support a fascist bunch of street thugs like the EDL.

      Geller and Spencer have acted like a couple of internet trolls towards Melanie Phillips. Phillips and Murray wage counter-jihad to defend freedom. Until recently I thought Geller and Spencer did the same. Now I find them highly disturbing characters.

      • Chris Nicholson

        I’ve lived in Islington and seen the dynamic firsthand.

        • hippiepooter

          The dynamic of class snobbery?

          Of course it ‘exists’, nowhere more so than in leftieland Islington, but you personally know Melanie Phillips? Any thing she has ever said or written that gives you grounds to think she would reject someone’s contribution to counter-jihad simply because they’re working class? To my knowledge, quite the reverse.

          I’m aware that Mr David Horowitz doesn’t want any more fuel poured on this already very damaging fire, so in deference to this truly great man, I’ll confine my comments. I’m also aware that M/s Phillips had right of reply in FPM to Mr Spencer, but appears not to have exercised it, although she did post a reply on her blog.

          What I will simply state, is that it should be possible, especially for people who on the question of Jihad are on exactly the same page, to have a respectful difference of opinion on the EDL.

          I would suggest that the appropriate response of M/s Geller and Mr Spencer to M/s Phillips should have been along the lines of:-

          ‘We thank Melanie Phillips for her unquestioning support for our right to enter Britain, and her unqualified endorsement of Robert Spencer’s scholarship of Islam. We recognise that in Britain Melanie is among the pre-eminent voices opposing Jihad and we pay tribute to her brave stand. Clearly we do not share her view on the EDL and would welcome clarification from her on what else she objects to in our approach to combatting Islam and others we work with. Any debate opened up between fellow counter-jihadists in a fraternal spirit can only benefit the defence of freedom to which we are all committed. What is most important is what unites us over Jihad, not what divides us with regard to the EDL. Thank you once more Melanie for your unwavering support, and we will agree to disagree with you on the EDL’.

  • bear on the peaks

    if i told you there was an organization that was out to kill me because i’m gay, you liberals would be outraged. well, that organization is islam. in iran, sudan, saudia arabia, mauritania and yemen among other islamic countires i would be tortured and/or killed. hans and sophie scholl were arrested in 1943 for passing out leaflets warning about the nazis in germany. i’m sure in 1942 a lot of people considered them troublemakers and haters. i support pamela geller and robert spencer. i have nothing against muslims but sadly, all you pc-enablers and liberals always defending islam, are making matters worse. if geller and spencer are haters, then you are homophobes who would risk my life and the lifes of all gay men and women. shame on you. power to the edl!

    • teresa

      well said

    • defcon 4

      So you denigrate nazis, presumably for their beliefs, but not muslimes?

  • anotherjoeblogs

    the class system is completely ingrained in the british psyche. EVEN melanie phillips’ commonality ( oh how common ) with the EDL is trumped by her conservative jewish middle-class background. How dare these oiks rise above their station and have a voice about things which their betters should be taking care of ? I tell you what though – these urbane limp-wristed lefties will be screaming for the oiks to sort things out in about 20 years or so.

  • Warren Raymond

    “Respectable?” We need all the help we can get.

    Our enemies have no qualms when it comes to defend the primitive head- choppers that do the dirty work for them. WTF is wrong with these intellectual dimbulbs? If we wait for them to get their heads out of their asses there will never be a resistance movement!

  • Rostis

    Thanks God, my name is not Melanie Phillips, so I feel myself nor that sheepish, neither that self-important. So I’ve done the only thing I can: a few minutes ago I’ve signed the petition, mentioned in this article, adding the following comment: “During my lifetime I’ve seen quite a lot of fine peoples, whose visits to the USSR were banished by the Communists thanks to absolutely the same reasons the present-day dhimmi British government now uses to ban the visit of Geller and Spencer. I think it’s a shame for any civilized country in general and especially for the UK with its great traditions of freedom and independence”. It was a real pleasure to see such a wide world of non-sheepish signatures there, from Australia and India to Denmark and Canada! Rostislav, Saint-Petersburg, Russia.

  • christopher swift

    I agree there is a strong class element to this dispute. To some people, just doing something physical in nature – marching in protest – seems “thuggish” because it’s real, as opposed to endless philosophizing.

    And this stage, I don’t think it’s wise to sift out your potential friends and allies in so fine a fashion- to the other side we’re all the same.
    That said, I would hate to lose Phillips’ voice and I respect her work.

  • http://libertyandculture.blogspot.com/ Jason P

    So she parts ways on the EDL. Perhaps street movements make her uncomfortable. She is still an incredible intellectual warrior and we need all the help we can get on that front. We are still in the “teaching phase” of this war.

    • defcon 4

      No we’re all in the LOSING phase of this war.

  • mikidiki

    What MP fails to understand is that all Muslims are potentially extremist. As any philosopher will state, “It’s Islam, stupid!”

  • Paul Austin Murphy

    Robert Spencer says that Melanie Philips may think that by distancing herself from the EDL, and from Spencer and Geller, she will free herself from the Left’s wrath. Maybe. But she’s already their favourite hate figure anyway. They call her ‘mad Mel’ (the US Left uses the word ‘loon’), etc. She is the Leftists’ dinner-party favourite for verbal ‘hate crimes’. There’s nothing she could do to get into their good books other than call for the destruction of Israel and for the building of twenty new mosques in Manchester.

    • D B

      Well said!

    • Suzyqpie

      Control the language, control the people. In the USA it could be called a DemocratFatwa, say something the Dems don’t like and they will launch an attach. Being called a racist is rather shop worn due to ubiquity, but is still tossed about in a cavalier manner, to mostly no avail.

  • Paul Austin Murphy

    On the snobbery of the British Left, as mentioned in the article by Robert Spencer:

    http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/the-unbearable-snobbery-of-edl-news.html

    • Suzyqpie

      Ditto USA, some how, I muse perpetually, that they can be so snobby while proclaiming to be such erstwhile egalitarians all the while running from the hoi polloi as fast as their chubby thighs will carry them.

  • D B

    One thing that must be said about about the EDL is that they were guilty of appalling and inept public relations in allowing themselves to be marginalised and branded as extremists and thugs. For better or worse, that is what has happened. Miss Geller and Mr Spencer have done themselves no good whatever in allowing their names to be associated with this group (EDL).

    Melanie Phillips lives in the UK and knows better than to let her name be linked with this very dodgy outfit.

    I am sorry that Miss Geller and Mr Spencer were barred from the UK. I think the Home Secretary was wrong to do what she did, but I have to admit that this couple walked right into a trap. Not smart.

    • southwood

      At last an intelligent comment on this topic. Phillips is an intelligent woman. The EDL are a real mixed bag. They had a Sikh guy as one of their leaders. He was filmed denigrating muslims, ALL muslims, in a very extreme way. The EDL act like football thugs which is what some of them are. As for Spencer what a clown he is bringing class into this and being so self-righteous about it. Geller, too, is a hypocrite. She claims her own free speech is being curtailed at every opportunity while at the same time blocking comments on her blog which she objects too. They should be allowed into the UK, however. I despise the attitude of the UK government to the issue of Islam and free speech.

  • Paul Austin Murphy

    This article may well explain (I think it does) why Melanie Philips never responded to any of my communications with here – ever! (Actually, she did once reply; but that was pre-EDL (pre-2009).) No matter how well-argued and logical my emails and letters were, she never responded. I can only assume that she realised I was connected to the EDL.

    • hippiepooter

      Maybe she just gets inundated with mail and doesn’t have time to reply?
      I know that when I drop my insignificant thoughts to ‘players on stage’ I’m not expecting a reply.

      • Paul Austin Murphy

        In the early days I doubt she got that many messages about Islamism in the UK. Is that what you mean by ‘players on stage’? And I don’t think that my thoughts at the time were ‘insignificant’. No one else in the UK was voicing them, except Melanie Philips, the EDL and literally a handful of others.

  • dizzyizzy

    I can understand Spencer’s frustration, but this is no time for the Right to shoot one another in a public forum. That applies to Phillips too. And I don’t understand Spencer’s sentence that the US is a “classless society.” When we have excellent public education for all our students, maybe equal opportunity will be a reality, not a pipe dream. And that public education will not be under the rules against “hate speech.” See http://clarespark.com/2013/06/23/the-origins-of-political-correctness/. “The origins of political correctness.” And it wasn’t “cultural Marxism” that inflicted PC upon us. It was upper-class (!) liberals in their foundations starting in the late 1930s.

  • ratonis

    We need a movement to pressure all American tour companies to delete all tours to “glorious” Britain from their schedules. (“Glorious Britain” — what a joke. In a few years it will be just another Islamic crap-hole like every other place the Muslims rule.)

    • southwood

      “In a few years it will be just another Islamic crap-hole like every other place the Muslims rule”.

      Unlike America, right ?

    • Feisty Hayseed

      Your “Islamic crap-hole” characterization made me laugh. Not because it is funny, but because it is True! ;-D

    • seala

      Right wingers cr*p on Americas biggest ally When you treat your friends like that expect them to turn against you

  • Mackie

    I and many here want to support the likes of Melanie Phillips who at one time wrote for the Guardian nearly 20 years ago. She moved away from the leftwing thinking of the guardian and to the right,she has become a writer that strongly opposes the Islamization occurring in the UK, she is an ardent supporter of Israel. But all the more I and many others are somewhat perplexed by her attack on Geller and Spencer, though many of her supporters choose to ignore her negative comments on these two intrepid activists.

    Yes she is very critical of HS May’s decision to ban Geller and Spencer from the UK.. But why did she have to marginalize Spencer and Geller in her comments? Apparently it is there choice of coming at the bequest of the EDL. The EDL was never brought up in the Home Secretary’s letter and yet Phillips chose to do so. Yes the EDL has some rough edges but they are working hard to clean up the negatives. The British Media still tries to portray them in a negative light no matter what they do. There is an arrogance and a class structure that raises its ugly head in the UK that we don’t see the likes of this in the US. The better thing for Melanie to do is interact with the leaders of the EDL, give them advice and suggestions, but don’t simply demonize there efforts. recognize that there heart is in the right place when it comes to the growing Islamic threat to all things British.

    • hippiepooter

      Melanie Phillips has not “attacked” Spencer and Geller. She has made a constructive criticism of their support of the EDL and they have come out spitting venom about it. They have revealed something truly unsavoury about their character, which could well explain their support of the EDL.

      • Betty4440

        the EDL is trying to fight for their country and their people. what is wrong with that? don’t know where you are but you also need to study a while before running your mouth.

    • Betty4440

      Pamela and Robert face a lot of problems here in the US. with the muslims and some places canceling their speeches. and is sad when they try to warn people what is going on. the muslims and Cair steps in and starts trouble. but a lot more people are waking up at a faster pace than they were a year ago to just what islam is and just what it does.

  • Mo86

    It was so disappointing to see this from Melanie, whose work I usually admire.

    • Suzyqpie

      Sometimes I am reduced to such cynicism that I believe that people in this social strata behave in this manner to get invited to nicer dinner and cocktail parties.

      • Mo86

        Ha! Well, I don’t know how many such invitations she receives. She’s usually spot-on and apparently not popular in her own country. I don’t know what happened here. She’s got a follow up article, of which I only read the first few sentences. Looks like she got a lot of negative feedback on her previous article, including from me!

        I really hate that this has happened. This is no time to be warring among ourselves!

        Sigh.

  • EamonnDublin

    The United Kingdom (and, indeed, much of Europe) appears to be terrified at the prospect of upsetting people of the Muslim faith. Islamist extremists are allowed to preach threats against Western civilization every week outside mosques. My own country, Ireland, is in the same sad way. If any person brings up the issue of immigration, one is shouted down as a racist. In some areas of Dublin, our capital city, immigrants are now in the majority – in one north inner city area, Irish natives account for only 29% of the population (official figures released last week). No discussion is tolerated, we are simply told that “multiculturalism” is good for us and will make our nation stronger. But all the while, the politicians ignore the threats, the claims that Islam will triumph and will subject us all to Shari’a law. It is now up to the people, the people who have least to lose materially from a confrontation, those without businesses, without high-powered jobs, who are not the so-called “leaders” of our country, to say “enough is enough” and tell militant Islam “thus far shalt thou come and NO FURTHER” (with apologies to the great Irish leader, Charles Stewart Parnell). AS another great Irishman, the workers’ leader “Big” Jim Larkin said, “the great appear great because we are on our knees – let us rise”. GET UP OFF YOUR KNEES!! Tommy Robinson, despite his so-called “class”, despite the impact his campaign has upon him and his family, despite being castigated as a trouble-maker, has got up off his knees. It’s time for the rest of the West to follow suit. Or do we REALLY want to see our granddaughters being treated like rubbish by our new masters, do we WANT to have to turn to face Mecca five times (or whatever) every day? Do we WANT to just surrender our heritage to mad lunatics who will drag us back into the middle ages? No? Well then, don’t just sit there worrying – DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

    • Suzyqpie

      “multiculturalism is good for us and will make our nation stronger.” That’s a total lie. We are fed the same crap sandwich in the USA. Tour the globe and look at the debris field that is islam. Death, destruction, busted economies, refugee camps, burning cars (Sweden), death in the subway, death and billions in damage Twin Towers, Syria is being reduced to rubble, Egypt is burning down, new riots in Thailand, Somalia, if anyone is still with me, just death & chaos. Will the very learned audience assembled here please explain how will this unmitigated disaster make us stronger? And how can our deceitful politicians peddle this egregious lie that could get us killed. Wherever there is Islam there is civil unrest. Except Saudia Arabia where they “disappear” people. And the lovely asylum seeker freedom loving murderous welfare recipient Tsarneau brothers, I almost overlooked their contribution to our strength.
      The End

    • Betty4440

      Eaminn got an email the other day stating they are building one of the largest mosque in Ireland is this so? I pray not. I have Irish blood in my veins always wanted to visit but at my age now and the problems of the world I guess I had better stay in the USA. good luck and GOD BLESS.

  • PowertodaPeople1848

    Hah! Infighting among bigots. Gotta love it.

    • EamonnDublin

      To: “PowerToThePeople1848″ – No, my friend, not “infighting”. This is what we call “discussion”. You are the typical example of what I describe in my own comment, below – when one attempts to discuss the issues, one is termed a “racist”, or, in your word, a “bigot”. So you see, you have just proved my point. Thank you!

    • Drakken

      Soon you commi POS very soon.

    • Mo86

      Show me the bigotry you’re talking about?

    • defcon 4

      I don’t notice inbred goat shaggers such as yourself ever have a word of disapproval when your fellow islamo-nazis rape, murder and persecute people non-muslim. So where is the real bigotry Ahmed? Whenever a muslo-nazi points the finger of accusation at anyone, a thousand other fingers point back at him and islam.

  • EamonnDublin

    My Goodnes, “PowerToThePeople”!! I have just read some of your earlier posts, and YOU have the neck to call other people “BIGOTS”!!! Typical!!

  • Andy_London

    I guess it takes a Yank who has probably never been to the UK to write such tosh.

    The EDL has many former BNP members, regularly uses Nazi salutes, seeks violent confrontation with the POLICE and is blatantly racist.

    There are many other groups besides the EDL who want illegal Muslims placed behind bars, among them the Police and the Crown Prosecution Service. A number of child sex cases involving Muslim men raping and abusing non-Muslim girls have recently been concluded with life sentences given in a number of cases.

    Don’t waste your time attacking the author of Londinistan when there are many others far more worthy of attack.

    • LindaRivera

      Vile infiltrators have show up at EDL demos and given the FILTHY Nazi salute. The dirty Nazi humanity-haters are immediately ejected by the EDL. The EDL DO NOT seek violent confrontation with the police!

      Anyone familiar with the EDL know that the EDL has people of different races and religions. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and others.

    • bribri

      EDL is blatantly NOT racist. Read their mission statement, listen to their leaders and “non-white” members. However, the EDL regularly catches UAF members hiding in their marches and making nazi salutes in time for photo ops. The EDL have a few not-so-bright skinhead members but have zero tolerance for neo-nazi crap; they either evolve with the organisation or are kicked out. But definitely the EDL should grow their hair long to prevent confusion among the simple-minded and working class-phobics among us.

  • ziggy zoggy

    Her sense of entitlement is writ all over her repulsive face. Why do we tolerate these “people?”

    • hippiepooter

      Sir, you are to be pitied. God bless.

  • kate5778b

    Have signed your petition, keep up the good work, we must be allowed to measure speech, as we used to do to see which ideas are good and those which are bad, that should have been stopped at inception, Islam is one of those bad ideas (see Winston Churchill’s surmise of Islam and its votaries) http://www.allaboutmuhammad.com/winston-churchillrsquos-comments-on-islam.html

    In the 21st century it is ONLY Islam which kills in the name of its god. Now we can lay all Abrahamic texts next to each other we can see that Mohomet is NOT the perfect example to follow (sura 33:21) and the Qur’an does NOT confirm the Bible and New Testaments as it claims (sura 3:3).

  • kate5778b

    This is not very newsworthy news for the West:

    http://www.persecution.org/

    Yet the West needs to know.

  • defcon 4

    Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer have received plenty of death threats from their islamo-nazi fan base, yet Philips sees the need to attack them? Your words stink of hypocrisy. Enjoy your islamo-nazi future, you clearly deserve it.

    • southwood

      You are falling into the same trap by attacking Phillips. As for your accusation of hypocrisy, what about when Geller herself disowned, if that’s the word, the EDL for what she saw as anti-semitism in their ranks. Now she criticizes Phillips for virtually the same thing. Also, for such an advocate of free speech she is able to censor comments she disagrees with on her blog. That’s two instances of hypocrisy right there. Geller is basically a New York liberal Jew (pro-choice, pro-gay) who happens to agree with the Right on one or two issues, mainly on Islam and its threat to the west. BTW Melanie Phillips is also a Jew but does seem to be on the Right side of the political divide.

  • Marky_D

    Great fan of Robert Spencer, Tommy Robinson & Melanie Philips so I am torn on this issue. Much as I hate the left’s tactic of shooting the messenger and ignoring the message to some extent Melanie is right here. In 20 seconds flat anyone can go onto youtube and find videos of drunken skinheads waving EDL banners. Do these people represent Tommy Robinson and the other ”serious” members? No, they don’t but these people who have been allowed to affiliate themselves with the EDL have irrevocably tarred that organisation. I’m not sure Melanie is embarking on kid-gloves caveats when she calls them out on this, though I don’t like her assertion that there may be racist elements in the EDL. I’m yet to see any evidence of this.

    On the other hand, if the reincarnation of jack the ripper had been on hand to warn the world of the rise of nazism most sane people would have welcomed his warning – and I am NOT for one second likening the EDL with Jack the Ripper, merely suggesting that what is important is the message, not the messenger.

    I am a Brit and I have to disagree with Roberts assertion that class warfare is behind the attacks on the EDL. If anything the UK is going through a reverse snobbery phase – certainly as far as attacking the right is concerned. For the left, the working classes have always been held in higher esteem, albeit superficially, to those normally considered socially ”above them”.

    Anyway, I am ashamed at Theresa May’s decision. Wish we could vote these anti-free speech leftists out from positions of power – except of course Theresa May is supposed to be a freedom loving conservative!!

    My country is doomed. Thanks for trying though RS.

  • Zutroy

    Your gratuitous defence of the EDL removes any credibility you may have had, and your one-sided view of Islam, preferring to focus on the minority of fundamentalists and trying to pass them off as the majority, is extremely dangerous. Your Jihad News highlights Muslim violence worldwide, but what percentage of violent crime in the UK is committed by Muslims? Certainly not proportionate with the hysteria surrounding it.

    The EDL are not representative of the working class in any way, shape or form. What you may not know about modern Britain is, since the Thatcher years, when many working class industries were effectively shut down, the working class split into 2 factions – the working class who continued to work, and the underclass, a faction who don’t (or rarely) work and haven’t done for some time, many of which decide to blindly and baselessly blame ‘immigration’ and/or ‘Islam’ for the fact that they’re unemployed. Given that most successful working-class movements in British history are predominantly left-wing (such as the Labour party, which has unfortunately been hijacked by the middle classes and is now centre-right) proves that far-right extremism and the working class are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to imply.

    The EDL are reactionary thugs. They are not even a political protest, they are a mere street movement who do nothing but cost the taxpayer millions a year with their street protests which often do nothing but descend into violence with the police. I say violence, it usually involves them throwing beer cans and other miscellaneous objects at them. What does this achieve? Nothing positive whatsoever, only to marginalise and divide otherwise well-integrated communities. They exploited the brutal murder of Lee Rigby for their own gains, and for you to say that they only fight back when attacked by fundamentalism is extremely false.

    In a way it’s a shame you’ve been denied entry to the UK, because it’s given your cause unnecessary publicity. If the Home Office had allowed you and Pamela entry, you’d have said your thing, got a bit of backslapping from those naive enough to believe your rhetoric as representative of Islam in Britain, and you’d have been on your way with little or no outside attention. There’d have been no originality and the whole thing would be relatively unremarkable, as the majority of decent people in Britain know that jihadists are not representative of British Muslims.

    To me, an equivalent counter-argument to yours would be to highlight the activities of the likes of the Ku Klux Klan and the WBC and claim they are fair representations of Christianity in the United States. It is ludicrous.

    Retweet that, Robert.