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	<title>Comments on: The Turkish Summer?</title>
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		<title>By: Jakareh</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5230807</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jakareh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The mainstream media is too stupid to realize that democracy is not the same thing as elections. Erdoğan was elected by millions of Sharia enthusiasts, the descendants of the Turks who committed genocide against the country’s Christian population (Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians) during and after WWI, and who were proud of the “victory” they achieved for Islam. Quite often, there is more freedom in a dictatorship than in a democracy informed by such values.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mainstream media is too stupid to realize that democracy is not the same thing as elections. Erdoğan was elected by millions of Sharia enthusiasts, the descendants of the Turks who committed genocide against the country’s Christian population (Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians) during and after WWI, and who were proud of the “victory” they achieved for Islam. Quite often, there is more freedom in a dictatorship than in a democracy informed by such values.</p>
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		<title>By: jeepwonder</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5230802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeepwonder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The islamists must not be delivering on promises if the people are rising up.
Sharia just doesn&#039;t delivery the paradise they think it will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The islamists must not be delivering on promises if the people are rising up.<br />
Sharia just doesn&#8217;t delivery the paradise they think it will.</p>
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		<title>By: Drakken</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5230726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drakken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I say let Turkey burn, the more the muslims go ape on each other the better it is for us, it used to be that if the islamaniacs got out of line the Generals took care of the problem, now the muslims put the Generals in jail. Just keep those refugees out of the west. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say let Turkey burn, the more the muslims go ape on each other the better it is for us, it used to be that if the islamaniacs got out of line the Generals took care of the problem, now the muslims put the Generals in jail. Just keep those refugees out of the west. </p>
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		<title>By: Drakken</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5230493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drakken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Well one small point Adina, the Germans are telling the pols under no circumstance do they want Turkey in the EU, the turks are a major problem in Germany and Austria and are making the natives seethe with contempt. Sooner or later with things going the way they are there will be revolt. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well one small point Adina, the Germans are telling the pols under no circumstance do they want Turkey in the EU, the turks are a major problem in Germany and Austria and are making the natives seethe with contempt. Sooner or later with things going the way they are there will be revolt. </p>
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		<title>By: ziontruth</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5230065</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ziontruth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5230065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But abroad, encouraging pluralism means helping those in opposition who espouse secular views, regardless of how deep those views are. If nothing else, we weaken the unity of the ummah.&quot; 
 
As long as it doesn&#039;t mean Iraq-like nation-building attempts, I agree. It&#039;s already an uphill battle with the shariah advocates seeing foreign conspiracies everywhere, but once there are boots on the ground, secularism becomes synonymous with treason even in the eyes of a moderate populace. 
 
&quot;Regarding your last point, I think Kemalism was a bona-fide revolution. It was quite comprehensive an unambiguously secular&quot; 
 
The question is how comprehensive it was. In the Christian world, secularism has been so entrenched in Europe that the religious fervor seen in the U.S.A. is rare to behold; America is a secular state by law, but the Christian populace has a large portion of orthodox believers. Kemalist Turkey like America enshrined secularism in law but there was no European-style cynification (my coining for the occasion) of the populace. 
 
All this would be a matter just for sociology class if it weren&#039;t for Islam&#039;s inherent imperialism. 
 
&quot;It just shows the extent to which islam&#039;s tentacles reach into the cultural and collective psychological fabric of the Muslim world.&quot; 
 
David Ben Gurion, the Washington and Ataturk of Israel, thought Orthodox Judaism would die out within a generation. Israel is as secular by law as it was in his day, but he couldn&#039;t have been more wrong about the fate of the religion among the populace&#8212;Jewish religiosity has only gotten stronger. 
 
Leaving jaded, twice-war-scarred Europe aside, in most of the world the craving for religion will be manifested in the populace, even if the systems of law stay secular. I don&#039;t believe the Turkish populace will be free of Islam any time soon; a return to Kemalist secularization of the political system is the best that could be hoped for. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;But abroad, encouraging pluralism means helping those in opposition who espouse secular views, regardless of how deep those views are. If nothing else, we weaken the unity of the ummah.&quot; </p>
<p>As long as it doesn&#039;t mean Iraq-like nation-building attempts, I agree. It&#039;s already an uphill battle with the shariah advocates seeing foreign conspiracies everywhere, but once there are boots on the ground, secularism becomes synonymous with treason even in the eyes of a moderate populace. </p>
<p>&quot;Regarding your last point, I think Kemalism was a bona-fide revolution. It was quite comprehensive an unambiguously secular&quot; </p>
<p>The question is how comprehensive it was. In the Christian world, secularism has been so entrenched in Europe that the religious fervor seen in the U.S.A. is rare to behold; America is a secular state by law, but the Christian populace has a large portion of orthodox believers. Kemalist Turkey like America enshrined secularism in law but there was no European-style cynification (my coining for the occasion) of the populace. </p>
<p>All this would be a matter just for sociology class if it weren&#039;t for Islam&#039;s inherent imperialism. </p>
<p>&quot;It just shows the extent to which islam&#039;s tentacles reach into the cultural and collective psychological fabric of the Muslim world.&quot; </p>
<p>David Ben Gurion, the Washington and Ataturk of Israel, thought Orthodox Judaism would die out within a generation. Israel is as secular by law as it was in his day, but he couldn&#039;t have been more wrong about the fate of the religion among the populace&mdash;Jewish religiosity has only gotten stronger. </p>
<p>Leaving jaded, twice-war-scarred Europe aside, in most of the world the craving for religion will be manifested in the populace, even if the systems of law stay secular. I don&#039;t believe the Turkish populace will be free of Islam any time soon; a return to Kemalist secularization of the political system is the best that could be hoped for. </p>
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		<title>By: Chezwick</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5229939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chezwick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Good observations....which is why admitting Muslims as immigrants based on their so-called moderation would be a mistake, given that such moderation - as you point out - could change on a dime. But abroad, encouraging pluralism means helping those in opposition who espouse secular views, regardless of how deep those views are. If nothing else, we weaken the unity of the ummah. 
 
Regarding your last point, I think Kemalism was a bona-fide revolution. It was quite comprehensive an unambiguously secular....(oddly, Attaturk&#039;s nationalism was in some respects more intolerant than the Islam of the Ottomans; witness the Greeks who were expelled by him in the 1920s from their ancestral homes, a fate they never suffered under the Caliphs). But certainly in the broader sense, his reforms Westernized Turkey. 
 
Yet, as comprehensively reformist as Kemalism was, it didn&#039;t prevent, decades after the death of its namesake, the re-assertion of Islamic identity. It just shows the extent to which islam&#039;s tentacles reach into the cultural and collective psychological fabric of the Muslim world.  
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good observations&#8230;.which is why admitting Muslims as immigrants based on their so-called moderation would be a mistake, given that such moderation &#8211; as you point out &#8211; could change on a dime. But abroad, encouraging pluralism means helping those in opposition who espouse secular views, regardless of how deep those views are. If nothing else, we weaken the unity of the ummah. </p>
<p>Regarding your last point, I think Kemalism was a bona-fide revolution. It was quite comprehensive an unambiguously secular&#8230;.(oddly, Attaturk&#039;s nationalism was in some respects more intolerant than the Islam of the Ottomans; witness the Greeks who were expelled by him in the 1920s from their ancestral homes, a fate they never suffered under the Caliphs). But certainly in the broader sense, his reforms Westernized Turkey. </p>
<p>Yet, as comprehensively reformist as Kemalism was, it didn&#039;t prevent, decades after the death of its namesake, the re-assertion of Islamic identity. It just shows the extent to which islam&#039;s tentacles reach into the cultural and collective psychological fabric of the Muslim world.  </p>
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		<title>By: ziontruth</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5229768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ziontruth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5229768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Let&#039;s reject the unimaginative rigidity which some here propound&#8230;.that all Muslims are identical and equally malevolent. Quite evidently as events in Turkey and Iran and elsewhere have shown us, they are not.&quot; 
 
In the sense that many Muslims in Turkey are secularized and only call themselves Muslims as an identifier, you&#039;re right. But that observation makes the point stronger, not weaker, that the non-Muslim world can come into terms only with those Muslims whose religiosity is weak. Not a good basis, because that kind of thing is subject to change, sometimes very sudden change. 
 
I&#039;ve long maintained that, with all the revolutions in the Muslim world talked about, there has never actually been a true revolution. They blame the leaders and a botched implementation of Islamic principles; they never blame the Islamic principles themselves. There&#039;s never been a revolution against Islam; the thought that Islam itself might be the cause of their woes crosses the minds of very few, and they too must keep it quiet for fear of their lives. 
 
If Turkey has that kind of popular revolution then it&#039;ll be the first in history. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Let&#039;s reject the unimaginative rigidity which some here propound&hellip;.that all Muslims are identical and equally malevolent. Quite evidently as events in Turkey and Iran and elsewhere have shown us, they are not.&quot; </p>
<p>In the sense that many Muslims in Turkey are secularized and only call themselves Muslims as an identifier, you&#039;re right. But that observation makes the point stronger, not weaker, that the non-Muslim world can come into terms only with those Muslims whose religiosity is weak. Not a good basis, because that kind of thing is subject to change, sometimes very sudden change. </p>
<p>I&#039;ve long maintained that, with all the revolutions in the Muslim world talked about, there has never actually been a true revolution. They blame the leaders and a botched implementation of Islamic principles; they never blame the Islamic principles themselves. There&#039;s never been a revolution against Islam; the thought that Islam itself might be the cause of their woes crosses the minds of very few, and they too must keep it quiet for fear of their lives. </p>
<p>If Turkey has that kind of popular revolution then it&#039;ll be the first in history. </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen_Brady</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5229607</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen_Brady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[A philosopher is used to reading long treatises.  I enjoyed your post, and got your point! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A philosopher is used to reading long treatises.  I enjoyed your post, and got your point! </p>
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		<title>By: antisharia</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5228072</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[antisharia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5228072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I loathe Erdogan, I&#039;ve said before that he&#039;s nothing but Bin Laden in a business suit. But he&#039;ll win. Rightly or wrongly he has the aura of legitimacy because he&#039;s supposedly won free and fair elections. That&#039;s debatable. But Islam is a much older, and more potent force, than Kemalism. Erdogan might back down from this specific project, but he&#039;ll cling to power, and he&#039;ll probably go on to win the next &quot;election.&quot; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loathe Erdogan, I&#039;ve said before that he&#039;s nothing but Bin Laden in a business suit. But he&#039;ll win. Rightly or wrongly he has the aura of legitimacy because he&#039;s supposedly won free and fair elections. That&#039;s debatable. But Islam is a much older, and more potent force, than Kemalism. Erdogan might back down from this specific project, but he&#039;ll cling to power, and he&#039;ll probably go on to win the next &quot;election.&quot; </p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5227995</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5227995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great Post, enjoyed reading it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Post, enjoyed reading it!</p>
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		<title>By: davarino</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5227531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davarino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 11:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Things always tend toward the mean, and the more things vear from the mean the more violently things eventually snap back toward the mean. This thing, happening in the ME is a vearing from the mean that will eventually snap back. People can live like animals only so long, then they have had enough. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things always tend toward the mean, and the more things vear from the mean the more violently things eventually snap back toward the mean. This thing, happening in the ME is a vearing from the mean that will eventually snap back. People can live like animals only so long, then they have had enough. </p>
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		<title>By: Chezwick</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5226783</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chezwick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5226783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry folks that the above post was so long-winded. To sum up, if we treat all Muslims as if they are the same, we forfeit the ability to exploit divisions among them. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry folks that the above post was so long-winded. To sum up, if we treat all Muslims as if they are the same, we forfeit the ability to exploit divisions among them. </p>
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		<title>By: Chezwick</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5225655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chezwick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5225655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During the Iranian student demonstrations back in &#039;09, there was a strain within the anti-Jihad that believed we didn&#039;t have a dog in the fight and that Iran&#039;s opposition couldn&#039;t be trusted. I disagreed strenuously. This is not to imply that the opposition there, or the Turkish opposition today, is pristine, only that both are preferable to the governments they are fighting&#8230;.and deserve at the very least our moral support. 
 
Muslims are constricted in scope and vision by their own theological mandates&#8230;.and while it is imperative for us infidels to understand Islamic doctrine in all its infamy, let&#039;s not ourselves become constricted by it. We must not become rigid in our perception of the Islamic realm, and should avoid adopting its nomenclature and ethos (e.g., terrorism isn&#8217;t terrorism when Muslims are the perps). Whether or not Muslims view their Jihad as terrorism, we in the West should not re-define the word in order to accommodate them. 
 
One would hope we could deal with the Muslim realm adroitly and flexibly, making appropriate distinctions among them regarding their respective ideological proclivities, not necessarily in terms of immigration at home (which is an entirely separate issue), but in terms of our disposition towards them abroad. Let&#8217;s reject the unimaginative rigidity which some here propound&#8230;.that all Muslims are identical and equally malevolent. Quite evidently as events in Turkey and Iran and elsewhere have shown us, they are not. 
 
In Syria, for example, both sides are anathema and it is not in our interest to help either. In Iran and Turkey, the circumstance is different, given the relative secular inclinations of the opposition. And let&#8217;s keep in mind, schismatic upheaval in the Muslim world works towards our advantage, particularly when the space for secular entities is widened. 
 
Erdogan&#8217;s slow-motion Sharia experiment might - and I emphasize MIGHT - be unraveling. But even if he superimposes it via the police truncheon, it will lose its legitimacy and reinforce the perception to the world (and the Turkish people) that Islam and democracy are entirely incompatible. 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the Iranian student demonstrations back in &#039;09, there was a strain within the anti-Jihad that believed we didn&#039;t have a dog in the fight and that Iran&#039;s opposition couldn&#039;t be trusted. I disagreed strenuously. This is not to imply that the opposition there, or the Turkish opposition today, is pristine, only that both are preferable to the governments they are fighting&hellip;.and deserve at the very least our moral support. </p>
<p>Muslims are constricted in scope and vision by their own theological mandates&hellip;.and while it is imperative for us infidels to understand Islamic doctrine in all its infamy, let&#039;s not ourselves become constricted by it. We must not become rigid in our perception of the Islamic realm, and should avoid adopting its nomenclature and ethos (e.g., terrorism isn&rsquo;t terrorism when Muslims are the perps). Whether or not Muslims view their Jihad as terrorism, we in the West should not re-define the word in order to accommodate them. </p>
<p>One would hope we could deal with the Muslim realm adroitly and flexibly, making appropriate distinctions among them regarding their respective ideological proclivities, not necessarily in terms of immigration at home (which is an entirely separate issue), but in terms of our disposition towards them abroad. Let&rsquo;s reject the unimaginative rigidity which some here propound&hellip;.that all Muslims are identical and equally malevolent. Quite evidently as events in Turkey and Iran and elsewhere have shown us, they are not. </p>
<p>In Syria, for example, both sides are anathema and it is not in our interest to help either. In Iran and Turkey, the circumstance is different, given the relative secular inclinations of the opposition. And let&rsquo;s keep in mind, schismatic upheaval in the Muslim world works towards our advantage, particularly when the space for secular entities is widened. </p>
<p>Erdogan&rsquo;s slow-motion Sharia experiment might &#8211; and I emphasize MIGHT &#8211; be unraveling. But even if he superimposes it via the police truncheon, it will lose its legitimacy and reinforce the perception to the world (and the Turkish people) that Islam and democracy are entirely incompatible. </p>
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		<title>By: AdinaK</title>
		<link>http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ryan-mauro/the-turkish-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-5225255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AdinaK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2013 06:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frontpagemag.com/?p=192108#comment-5225255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paradoxically, Islamist Erdogan is facing a burgeoning secular revolt, but others will wrongfully compare it to the &quot;Arab Spring&quot;. The only resemblance involves rioting, but otherwise there is no comparison. The fact of the matter was that the so called &quot;Arab Spring&quot; had the support of a minority of secular-leaning citizens, but an overwhelming amount of splintered Islamist groups were in the forefront.   
   
Erdogan is bent on returning Turkey to rule via the Ottoman Empire, and this is why he (and his supporters in Washington and Europe, chiefly in Germany) will pull out all stops to thwart them. This is the real face of Erdogan&#039;s Turkey - &lt;a href=&quot;http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/03/20/im-an-israeli-soldier-a-youtube-presentation-by-latma-tv-adina-kutnicki/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/03/20/im-an-israeli...&lt;/a&gt;   
   
His support of Islamic terrorists tells the tale....and his Brotherhood Mafia alliance is key.   
   
Adina kutnicki, Israel &lt;a href=&quot;http://adinakutnicki.com/about/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://adinakutnicki.com/about/&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paradoxically, Islamist Erdogan is facing a burgeoning secular revolt, but others will wrongfully compare it to the &quot;Arab Spring&quot;. The only resemblance involves rioting, but otherwise there is no comparison. The fact of the matter was that the so called &quot;Arab Spring&quot; had the support of a minority of secular-leaning citizens, but an overwhelming amount of splintered Islamist groups were in the forefront.   </p>
<p>Erdogan is bent on returning Turkey to rule via the Ottoman Empire, and this is why he (and his supporters in Washington and Europe, chiefly in Germany) will pull out all stops to thwart them. This is the real face of Erdogan&#039;s Turkey &#8211; <a href="http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/03/20/im-an-israeli-soldier-a-youtube-presentation-by-latma-tv-adina-kutnicki/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/03/20/im-an-israeli" rel="nofollow">http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/03/20/im-an-israeli</a>&#8230;   </p>
<p>His support of Islamic terrorists tells the tale&#8230;.and his Brotherhood Mafia alliance is key.   </p>
<p>Adina kutnicki, Israel <a href="http://adinakutnicki.com/about/" rel="nofollow">http://adinakutnicki.com/about/</a> </p>
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