Army Chaplain Punished for Mentioning Faith

Praying012807Apparently, the Obama administration’s ostensible determination to foster “diversity” in the military is a one-way street. Army Chaplain Joseph Lawhorn was disciplined for mentioning his faith and the Bible as part of a November suicide prevention training seminar with the 5th Ranger Training Battalion. “You provided a two-sided handout that listed Army resources on one side and a biblical approach to handling depression on the other side,” wrote Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade at Ft. Benning, Georgia, in an official Letter of Concern. “This made it impossible for those in attendance to receive the resource information without also receiving the biblical information.”

Lawhorn received the letter following orders to appear in Col. Fivecoat’s office on Thanksgiving Day. The letter continued:

As the battalion chaplain, you are entrusted to care for the emotional wellbeing of all soldiers in the battalion. You, above all others, must be cognizant of the various beliefs held by diverse soldiers. During mandatory training briefings, it is imperative you are careful to avoid any perception you are advocating one system of beliefs over another.

The sequence of events leading to the action taken against Lawhorn should sound familiar. The session took place Nov. 20 at the University of North Georgia. Lawhorn handed out the two-sided document, recited some scripture, and explained how he used the Bible to cope with his own bout of depression. A single soldier was “offended” by Lawhorn’s presentation and reported him to the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF). Writing on behalf the MAAF, former Army Captain Jason Torpy characterized Lawhorn’s presentation as “an abuse of power and a violation of regulations.” He further accused Lawhorn of engaging in “conscience protection” which he defined as “an insidious legal tool designed to allow military chaplains to use their power and authority to evangelize vulnerable military populations.”

The Liberty Institute is defending Lawhorn. Attorney Michael Berry contends the soldier who filed the complaint “exploited” the chaplain’s “vulnerability.” “It took a great amount of courage for Chaplain Lawhorn to discuss his own personal battle with depression,” Berry explained. “At no time did he consider himself to be in a ‘preacher’ role.” Berry further insisted the Letter of Concern violated Lawhorn’s constitutional rights. “Not only is it lawful for a chaplain to talk about matters of faith and spirituality and religion in a suicide prevention training class – but the Army policy encourages discussion of matters of faith and spiritual wellness,” he told Fox News’s Todd Starnes. “The fact that one person in the class was offended changes nothing.”

Berry appears to be on solid ground. The passage of the last two National Defense Authorization Acts (NDAA), included provisions expanding the rights of service members and chaplains to express their religious beliefs. Despite that effort, a congressional hearing on the matter taking place the same day Lawhorn was doing the seminar revealed that a “tsunami of confusion” has been engendered among military commanders, chaplains and personnel attempting to determined the difference between religious practice and proselytization.

It was a hearing that didn’t sit well with former marine pilot Tom Carpenter. In a piece for the Huffington Post, he characterized it as a “set up,” where the outcome is “preordained.” He further insisted the expansion of religious rights is “an attempt by the ultra conservative Christians in Congress to allow chaplains to witness for Christ to all service members AT ALL TIMES, [emphasis original] without fear of accountability,” and that “accommodation being considered by this committee is clearly a subterfuge to allow criticizing of LGB service members and proselytizing of all non-Christians.”

Ron Crews, a retired Army chaplain and executive director of the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, testified at the hearing, citing what he believes was evidence of a double-standard. He noted that an article written by an Ohio Air National Guard member mentioning the importance of his faith and Jesus Christ was removed from an online newsletter, even as no action was taken against an airman writing a piece on atheism for a Moody Air Force Base newsletter.

Crews was quick to defend Lawhorn. “The chaplain did nothing wrong,” he explained. “At no time did he say his was the only or even the preferred way of dealing with depression. And at no time did he deny the validity of any other method. His story involves his faith journey. He was simply being a great Army chaplain – in ministering to his troops and providing first hand how he has dealt with depression in the past. That’s what chaplains do. They bare their souls for their soldiers in order to help them with crises they may be going through.”

Adding weight to that assessment is the fact that Lawhorn is a chaplain who wears the Ranger Tab, meaning his personal stories were more than likely an effort to help his fellow Rangers identify similar tribulations in their own lives.

In an interview with the Daily Signal, Lawhorn expressed that idea, further insisting he was only doing his job. “What I had tried to communicate with my audience is that depression can be conquered, depression can be overcome, and there are a myriad of ways of dealing with depression,” he explained. “In this particular case, I had struggled myself personally with the issue at hand I was teaching.”

He pushed back against the disciplinary action taken against him. “When I spoke about faith in particular, and in particular my Christian faith, it was clear that I was speaking from first-person account,” he maintained. “In my particular situation, it was my faith that helped me to persevere and remain resilient in the face of depression. And I was very clear to my audience that that was one way to handle depression and thoughts of suicide, but it certainly was not the only way.” Lawhorn further maintained that “any handout or any resource I provided soldiers who might need help was completely optional. It was up to them whether to take it or leave it.”

Col. Fivecoat was unmoved. On Dec. 12 he sent Lawhorn followup missive, “Letter of Concern Filing Determination,” in which he maintained he had “carefully considered” Lawhorn’s rebuttal, but still decided to file the Letter of Concern in the chaplain’s local file. Col. Fivecoat determined that Lawhorn’s assertions “did not disprove nor dissuade me that your actions made it impossible for those in attendance to receive the necessary resource information without also receiving biblical information.” He further insisted the Letter of Concern was a “professional development matter” and “an administrative action,” as opposed to a “punishment.” Nonetheless the letter will remain in Lawhorn’s file “for one year or until you are reassigned outside the Ranger and Training Brigade, whichever is sooner.”

Part of Lawhorn’s rebuttal included 33 letters of support from soldiers who attended the session, and those who know him personally. “They all almost universally say that he said, ‘I’m not telling you that using faith or religion or spirituality is the only way to deal with it. I’m not telling you it’s the correct way to deal with it. I’m just saying this was what worked for me,’” Berry explained. Berry also noted the complaining soldier didn’t give Lawhorn an opportunity to address his concerns. “Had Chaplain Lawhorn known of this, he would have happily sat down with this soldier and answered any questions or concerns he or she had,” Berry wrote to Col. Fivecoat. “Unfortunately, Chaplain Lawhorn was not given this opportunity–a professional courtesy–because the soldier in question alerted a civilian advocacy group, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, who apparently then alerted a media outlet, the Huffington Post.”

Rep. Doug Collins (R-GA), whose district includes the area where the seminar took place, also sent a letter to the Colonel, taking him to task. “I find it counterintuitive to have someone lead a suicide prevention course but prohibit them from providing their personal testimony,” Collins wrote.

His consternation was echoed by retired Army Lt. Gen. Jerry Boykin, chairman of the Restore Military Religious Freedom Coalition (RMRFC). He insisted Lawhorn’s First Amendment rights were violated and the Col. Fivecoat’s letter was in violation of Army regulation. “You cannot either force a chaplain to do something that violates their conscience or prohibit them from following their faith,” Boykin explained referencing Section 533 of the 2013 NDAA.

The RMRFC has pushed the matter up the chain of command, sending a letter to Secretary of the Army John McHugh. They want the Letter of Concern withdrawn, and Col. Fivecoat reprimanded. “I want somebody in the chain of command to sit him down and explain to him what the Constitution provides for in terms of freedom of religion as well as freedom of speech,” Boykin told CNS News.

Boykin is also vice president of the Family Research Council (FRC) that has created a petition requesting the same result. As of Dec. 18, it had 20,000 signatures. “We just simply cannot ignore this nor let it stand,” Boykin declared. “Even if there’s no long-term impact on the chaplain professionally, it can’t stand because commanders cannot abuse their power by abusing their subordinates over their conscience and their faith.”

The ultimate outcome remains to be seen, but the larger picture remains rather one-sided. The American left’s determination to socially engineer the military is as steeped in orthodoxy as any religion, yet the tenets of so-called Secular Humanism remain completely above challenge or reproach, irrespective of their effects on cohesion, morale and/or military preparedness. Moreover the notion that a chaplain should be disciplined for employing religion as part of the mix in a suicide prevention seminar is preposterous. It is clear that while the American left purports itself to be tolerant and non-judgmental, nothing could be further from the truth.

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  • Hank Rearden

    The struggle continues.

    How can it be anything other than bad faith for atheists to complain about religious observance and preaching? The atheists don’t believe. Fine. So how are they wounded by hearing from people who DO believe?

    Answer: they aren’t. It is an absurd logical and legal position and even more feeble-minded that the powers-that-be credit it as a legitimate grievance.

    What guides our troops? Judaeo-Christian morality. That is just a fact. Do away with that, and what do you have? What restraint is there? None in Islam. That we know. Yes, we have command and control, but why does that work? Because everybody is pulling in the same direction.

    If you are REALLY an atheist, how offensive is it really for you to sit through a few words of faith. If you are secular, then the Bible can be seen as literature, like listening to Shakespeare or Taylor Swift. How is that offensive? It isn’t.

    “Put a cork in it” is the right response, not sanctioning chaplains.

    And atheists are getting a freebie – they have God on their side and don’t have to do anything for it. What could be better than that?

    • Nabukuduriuzhur

      I’ve never met an atheist who didn’t believe in God.

      While there are plenty of people who don’t believe in God, atheists have an active hatred for God.

      It’s literally impossible to hate something you don’t believe exists.

      • LiveFreeOrDie

        Hmmm…. I’ll bet you are a Zeus atheist, and are not consumed with “active hatred” for him.

        • MukeNecca

          Oh, had Zeus been worshiped as the author of Good, Truth and Justice – the giver of the “Big Ten”, he too, would be an object of hate and derision of the fool.

      • Consider

        “While there are plenty of people who don’t believe in God, atheists have an active hatred for God.”
        The people who don’t believe in God are, by definition, atheists.
        The definition of atheist as those who hate God is an arbitrary ad hoc definition, in short, a stupidity.

    • Bamaguje

      The military did nothing when Major Nidal Hassan severally openly pontificated about Islam within her ranks.
      Eventually, the “Allahu Akhbar” chanting Major erupted into violent Jihad, killing 13 people.
      Even then military still covered it up as “workplace violence.”
      Christians on the hand are docile easy targets that can be pushed around.

    • Consider

      “What guides our troops? Judeo-Christian morality. That is just a fact.”
      Turn the other cheek, or some other tenet…?

      • Hank Rearden

        In victory, magnanimity.

        Care for the wounded.

        Accept surrender.

        Take prisoners.

        Treat prisoners of war well.

        But, quite frankly, if you don’t know, then I can’t really help you. Join the other side and you will find out.

        • Consider

          Perhaps this example illustrates your point well:

          Judges 3

          3:28 And he said unto them, Follow after me: for the LORD hath delivered your enemies the Moabites into your hand. And they went down after him, and took the fords of Jordan toward Moab, and suffered not a man to pass over. 3:29 And they slew of Moab at that time about ten thousand men, all lusty, and all men of valour; and there escaped not a man.

          • Hank Rearden

            Neither Judaism nor Christianity are pacifist doctrines. We fight wars and we win them.

            However, if YOU are a pacifist, please post your address here. When I visit your town, I will come and stay in your house, sleep in your bed while you sleep somewhere else, and have you cook my meals and do my laundry during my stay.

          • Consider

            Pacifism!?
            Who said anything about pacifism?
            We were talking about taking and treating of prisoners, in the context of Judeo-Christian tradition that is allegedly taught by the military chaplains.
            Another example from that valuable tradition, for soliders to to follow:
            31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
            31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? …. 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

            .

          • Hank Rearden

            IC

            You are misinformed. That is not what is being taught by chaplains in terms of treating prisoners.

            Gotta get up to date!

          • Consider

            That the Judeo-Christian tradition is bullshit, together with those who promulgate it, and who should be kicked out from the public institutions that includes the military…

          • Hank Rearden

            IC

            And you want to replace it with…

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            The New Socialist Man!!

            The Uber Mensch!

            What else?

            (Doesn’t totalitarianism always follow the same script?)

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            Flock of sheep who need sheperds in the person of a chaplain.
            Cattle, in short.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Who needs a shepherd when you have the state, right?
            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            So, if you insist, what’s wrong with the state?
            It’s at least real, not imaginary like god.
            Muah, muah…

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            It is true that the state is real enough..

            Just ask the millions that have died opposing it..

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            Ask millions that oposed god. This one or that one.
            Muah!

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Millions still do oppose God.. I don’t see them being slaughtered for it.

            Opposing the state is another matter, however.

            If you oppose the state:

            1. You’re audited
            2. You’re demonized
            3. You’re persecuted
            4. You’re imprisoned
            5. You’re “liquidated”

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            Bullshit. I would like to see you living in a society where those with biggest fists rule.
            BTW, “millions STILL opose God..”
            Still !
            One could be lead to imagine that we are witnessing evangelisation in the sea of atheism.
            While the opposite is true.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Given all that is happening in the US today, we already do live a society where the biggest “mouth” rules..
            BTW: Millions STILL not being slaughtered for being atheist (at least in the US).
            I suggest you dial down on the meds.
            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            How about an atheist president?
            According to pools, the majority wouldn’t vote for him (or her), regardless of everything else in his (or her) program.
            Now, one can imagine how atheists fare at ‘lower’ levels (unless they are not Bill Gates, of course).
            Wuah!

          • tagalog

            I submit that Barack Obama is effectively an atheist President. He doesn’t go to church (even at Christmas or Easter) or mosque, not to any religious services. His lip service paid to religious matters is obviously insincere.

          • Consider

            Praise to Barack Obama.

          • CowboyUp

            Praise to deceit? So much for the moral and logical superiority of your atheism.

          • Consider

            No, its adaptation to the environement.
            Why an American president should pay any attention to religious matters?
            After all the Constitution forbids the ‘establishment of religion’.

          • tagalog

            Not only do we NOT slaughter atheists for being atheist, in the United States Army (of all places!), we allow our military leaders to punish CHAPLAINS for printing RELIGIOUS methods -among the secular methods- for treating depression, that might cause offense to ONE atheist.

          • tagalog

            Societies where those with the biggest fists rule:
            Red China;
            North Korea;
            The former Soviet Union.
            No doubt there are many other examples, but I leave naming them to others.

          • Consider

            You forgot the Vatican!

          • tagalog

            What’s wrong with the state? Where do I begin?

            The state always winds up demanding 100% social conformity with government policy. It was predicted in 1789 that it would happen in this state, too; and the consequences of the Civil War and the Great Depression have borne that out.

            The good things that government can do are always accompanied by some quantum of forced compliance. Eventually that forcing outweighs the good and becomes tyranny. Our Founding Fathers knew that is one of the qualities of government, and predicted it would happen here.

            The state always insists on substituting the common good for the individual good, so the individual always winds up paying for things he has no desire to pay for, with less liberty.

            Because the state must compel compliance for the common good, the rights to private property and self-determination always are eventually lost.

            Because the state must provide for the common good, equality of result becomes the goal, not liberty. Liberty will always be lost when the state assumes the burden of provided the unobtainable goal of equality of result. The result? Liberty is lost for the sake of the unobtainable.

            When the accent is on the state, the individual becomes increasingly smaller until the individual disappears altogether, making such things as involuntary conscription and the labor camp inevitable. Stalin put it well: “one death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.” Liberty-loving societies prefer the Dylan Thomas formulation: “after the first death, there is no other.”

            I could go on and on, but you get my drift, I’m sure.

          • Consider

            OK.
            Not have passed even the test of Thomas Hobbes…
            I’ll pray for you too.

          • Consider

            “Who needs a shepherd when you have the state”
            Cattle!

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Exactly!

            An original thought is not a feature of a statist!

            All must conform, right comrade?

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            “All must conform, right comrade?”

            Yes, as on Sunday mass when the priest on duty keeps record who is present and who is not.

            Muah

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Your Sunday church must conform to the Social Gospel..

            I’ve not seen a church keep tabs on who attends or not.

            God already knows.

            <3 Muah!

          • tagalog

            Yes, unlike leftist collectivism, which as a herd reveres individuality as a concept if not in actual practice.

          • Consider

            Diversity is a Trojan horse of Islam, we are told above…

          • tagalog

            I doubt that Islam has any “Trojan horses.” They are pretty straightforward about fighting non-Muslims. And even if Islam had anything that could be called a Trojan horse, you can be sure that it isn’t “diversity.” That’s entirely a latter-day belief that has little or nothing to do with Islamic belief or policy.

          • Consider

            I was only quoting one of your likeminded characters.

          • tagalog

            Why do you have to believe that I (or anyone else) am/is “likeminded” with anyone else here?

            Is that some collectivist thingie?

          • Consider

            You sing in the same chorus.
            Obviously.

          • tagalog

            The difference is that, assuming that the priest keeps record of those who attend (something they don’t do in Protestant churches and which I don’t think is done in any other Christian sect either), the Church doesn’t have the power to threaten the nonconformists with some form of re-education or punishment.

          • Consider

            They will not burn them, but can induce silent (or overt) boycott of the person in question, foster social isolaton, business ruin, impede promotion ..etc..etc.
            It is known that in the US even in the 19 th century the testimony of an atheist was not accepted in a court of law.
            Heretics have been burnt down to the eighteenth century,
            About the 80% of brilliant Christian history..

          • tagalog

            Not cattle; Christians in solidarity.

          • Consider

            Sheperds, flock, I use the livestock breeder terminology that Christians use to describe relationships within their community.

          • tagalog

            A type of bobbing and weaving that in some circles is no doubt thought to pass as a clever riposte.

            Your true beliefs come through unmistakably.

          • Consider

            If you had an impression that I hid my true beliefs, I appologise sincerely.
            The Christians have only to reproach to themselves why they can be percieved as cattle.
            If they periceve themselves as cattle , who am I to judge them(as said pope Francis).

          • tagalog

            The Judeo-Christian tradition gave rise to the kind of politics that acknowledges your freedom to trash it in your speech.

          • Consider

            My freedom of speech has arisen in spite of Judeo-Christian tradition.
            There are still blasphemy laws in many countries including the UK.

          • tagalog

            You’re blatantly wrong about that, as I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to know in your heart of hearts.
            If you have a university education, thank the Catholic Church; they established the universities, creating them out of nothing. Just for the record, they did that so the teachings of the pagan philosopher Aristotle could be spread among those who would be learned. The universities cost money, so not many of the ordinary people could go to them, but for those who could raise the tuition, they were welcome, so the universities established by the Catholic Church were entirely democratic.

          • Consider

            “creating them out of nothing”
            Not out of nothing but of contribution raised from ordinary people.
            The Catholic Church produces nothing except delusion.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Here, boys and girls, is an excellent example of the tolerance of the left..

            Note the acceptance of opinions different than their own and how traditional expressions of faith are to be accepted in the marketplace of ideas..

            …..

            No.. I didn’t see it, either..

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            Well, how do you ‘accept’ opinions different from your own?

            I am really curious to see…

            And why do you think that ‘traditional expressions of faith’ should deserve a special treatment?

            Muah

          • CowboyUp

            The poor fool doesn’t seem to realize or care that he’s undermining the justification for tolerance of his own opinions and beliefs. At the same time, he’s giving justification to anyone who would exclude him from public institutions.

          • Consider

            If that is not what is being taught by chaplains in terms of treating prisoners than they teach something other than the Judeo-Christian morality (as shown above). If some other morality is taught, it need not be taught by (Christian) chaplains.
            It may be taught by philosophers, sociologists political scientists etc.

          • Hank Rearden

            You have to get familiar with a word…desuetude.

            That foreskins of the Philistines stuff has fallen into desuetude and in any case was superseded by the New Testament.

            Philosophers, sociologists, political scientists (a) cannot stand up against evil; (b) cannot address the spirit; (c) cannot deal with the infinite, with death; and (d) are always the most craven followers of the latest fashion. The Academy was the first institution of German society to embrace National Socialism.

            With all respect, you are a fool and an uneducated fool, if you think otherwise. You are ignorant of the entire history of the 20th century. The Germans had claim to being the most educated, the most sophisticated culture in the world and they collapsed into unimaginable evil when they discarded God.

            The humanist philosophies of socialism, of communism were and are slaughterhouses.

            Islam is a savage barbaric death cult without God – not talking about their absurd, false, pagan moon-god.

            And lastly even you are not saying that chaplains cannot carry the message, just that others can. You are mistaken on the second part, but even with your opinion, you are not ruling out chaplains who are, after all, already there.

          • Consider

            As expected you fall back to the usual subtrefuge of denying the validity of the OT in favour of the NT, which, allegedly, for some reason is better. But let it be for the moment.
            So we are supposed to accept that chaplains manage to :
            a) stand up against the evil (even theologians of repute acknowledge that the theodicies are stupid and frivolious)
            b) can adress the spirit (if you can be kind enough to explain what ‘spirit’ is)
            c) deal with the infinite (normaly the realm of the mathematician); death, hm, what particular expertise they have regarding that phenomenon (according to Schroedinger, that means achieving the thermodynamic equilibrium)
            d) well, fashion… let it be…
            To say that the Germans succumbed to national socialism after discarding God, is utter nonsense; Hitler allways calimed to be a Catholic (and has been accepted as such by the chaplains of the day). Even his associates, like Himmler, who, seemingly, reajected Christianity , tried to build a religion based on ancient Germanic myths.
            You are judging Islam from a nonreligious viewpoint. Yes it a savage death cult, but so is Christianity if read honestly.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Your comment, “Hitler always claimed to be a Catholic” reminds me of the very same comment Obama said..

            Contrary to your understanding, Hitler, like all totalitarians HATED religion as they believed nothing should come before the state (Goldberg, 2012;Sowell, 2012). Hitler was a strict vegetarian, believed in animal rights, and was an avid environmentalist..

            Even today’s totalitarians follow the same script!

            Once more: Totalitarians hate anything demanding allegiance to anything other than the state.

            The state is Mother.. The state is Father. Anything else is heresy.

            Some things never change.

            <3 Muah!

          • Consider

            Make an small effort , browse to quotes of what Hitler said about religion, his Catholicism etc.
            And then shut up.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Actually, this is part of my thesis toward my doctorate..
            Reality: Fact or Fiction..
            History is not kind to your way of thinking.
            What’s your background?
            <3 Muah!

          • CowboyUp

            Hitler said a lot of things that were contradicted by his actions. It’s odd that even at this late date some, like yourself, still believe what he said over what he did.

          • Consider

            He did what Christainity up to his day allways did: kill.

          • tagalog

            All that Christian killing, right, in the 2000 years (actually a little less) since there’s been Christianity, can’t come near the murder toll (murder alone, not including the dead in the wars) exacted by the devotion to atheistic politics. And I also exclude the Third Reich and Fascist Italy, because the 100,000,000 dead from the insistence on the social application of atheistic, scientific Marxism is more than enough.

          • Consider

            The un-Christian killings came in a period when the means of destruction were much less developed then they were in the twentieth century.
            Also there were less people.
            In the Thirthy Years War waged in Germany and Bohemia 1618 to 1638, the population of Germany was reduced to one third.
            And war was waged exclusively for religius reasons ,in contrast to the Russian and , Chinese situation, that the religious question was secondary if not tertiary, if important at all.
            Tying atheism exlusively to Marxism is bullshit.

          • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

            Actually, that would be leftism. As in Communism, Nazism, Fascism, totalitarianism, Eugenics, Progressiveism, etc.

            It is the worship of the state over the rights of men.

            <3 Muah!

          • tagalog

            I was once a pacifist, but no more, so don’t come to my house and expect to oust me from my accustomed quarters. You will meet resistance.

            When I was a conscientious objector to war, I worked in a psych unit where I had to fight individual fights a couple of times a week. I was 30 when I stopped doing that. Although I’m old now, I believe that I can hold my own, and I know a few tricks and moves. So please don’t target me; I don’t wish to take a pounding or deliver one although I can do both.

      • CowboyUp

        Turn the other cheek is the Christian response to insult or provocation, and is often misconstrued by some to include any violence against us. But we are instructed to keep a weapon handy to respond to an assault that injures more than our pride, and to defend the innocent and the weak from evil.

        • Consider

          As usual. They interprete. I mean, you interprete. That is, we are expected to understand that what is written means something else than this what is written.
          Are you a theologian?

          • tagalog

            Would you please define “interprete?” You’ve used it twice, so I assume you intended it.

            “Turn the other cheek” are the words quoted from Christ. So is “forgive your enemy seventy times seven.” So is “a strong man armed keepeth his house at peace.” Not much need for interpretation there. The words are quite clear.

          • Consider

            verb (used with object)
            1. to give or provide the meaning of; explain; explicate; elucidate:
            to interpret the hidden meaning of a parable.
            2. to construe or understand in a particular way:
            to interpret a reply as favorable.
            Under point 2.

          • CowboyUp

            It doesn’t take a theologian to see what a strike to the cheek means, physically, figuratively, or historically, and it agrees perfectly with what is written.

          • Consider

            “It doesn’t take a theologian to see …”

            No,it doesn’t.

            It takes the a theologian to make you bielieve that what you have read means more or less, the opposite.

          • CowboyUp

            No, it just takes reading comprehension, a little historic knowledge, and a desire to understand, to see it means exactly what it says. You’re the one extending it to all violence to make it mean a near opposite of what it says.

          • Consider

            Yeah.
            Turning the other cheek means keep your gun ready and so on.

    • Consider

      BTW ” if you are REALLY an atheist, how offensive is it really for you to sit through a few words of faith.”
      It’s offensive because its an insult to intelligence.
      The Bible is not presented as literature (at least not by military chaplains) but as revealed truths, and the whole system is set to directly or indirectly force people into believing. Otherwise one get ostracised and/or harrased in multiple of subtle or less subtle ways,
      The above case is an encouraging sign that things are starting to change.

      • Headed4TheHills

        Insult to intelligence? Truly? I’ve read your posts and you’ve gotten quite a bit wrong throughout.
        Like most atheists I know (and I was one, so I know whereof I speak), you rail against the Bible, gnashing your teeth, spewing vitriol. Claiming it’s fallacy, fairy tale, bunkum. It’s a crutch for those who refuse to face reality.
        What is it about Jesus and God that incites such hatred? Is it that Jesus died for our sins? Is it that God offered up His only begotten Son as expiation for the wrongs we’ve done? What offends you so? It can’t be that those of us who believe are less intelligent than those who don’t. I’ll not bore you with a list of Christians who excel at science. I’ll ask you to research that on your own.
        I know what your issue is. You had a bad experience with a Christian at some point (“Otherwise one get ostracised and/or harrased in multiple of subtle or less subtle ways”). That mean ol’ Christian hurt your feelings and now everything about Christianity has to be wrong, a fake, a lie. What you’re doing is what I’ve seen thousands of times before. You’re taking small incidences and pointing to the whole as wrong. How about taking the whole and pointing to the incidences as wrong? Someone got it wrong, they tried to stand up to the example Jesus set and they failed. THEY got it wrong, not God, not Jesus. We Christians TRY to live up to the example we have before us (our Lord and Savior) but we cannot be perfect as He was, we can only try. There is no condemnation in Christ, but we Christians get it wrong. We condemn, we mock, we ostracize. Why? Because we are human, we are flawed beings. Jesus isn’t done making us better. He will knock off a rough edge here, smooth out a patch there, but it takes time.
        We’re not perfect, just forgiven. How about you try a lil bit o’ that forgiveness?

        • Consider

          Firstly, the usual trick ” I was an atheist but I got enlightenend…”. Baloney!

          Secondly, there is no hatred, only one may not want stupidities forced upon oneself, and that by a government institution.

          Thirdly, the “Jesus died for our sins” story. The whole story is silly, internally, so to say (leaving aside the problem of its foundation on fact). Why he had to die, he was 33.33..% God himself. It follows that he sacrificed himself to himself at least partly, where is any indication of an agreement that his scrifice would make the other two members of the God triumvirate (the Father and the Holly Ghost, the stealth fu**er) forgive our sins, he did not come to sacrifice himself voluntarly but he was caught and put to death, in the end he resurrected which means that it was not a sacrifice after all… and so on.

          • Headed4TheHills

            Consider, I could not care less if you believe me or not. You don’t know me, don’t know my life, don’t know anything about me period. until you do, take your “baloney” and shove it where the sun don’t shine.

            No, there is blatant hatred. You don’t have to attend the services, you know that, right? No one has a gun to your head, saying “believe or else”. No, you have a deep and abiding hatred for Christians and Christianity. It oozes from every word you type.

            You pick up the Bible and you study it. You’ll see the line of blood God laid down from the first sin to the redemptive act of Christ on the cross. He came willingly, He knew the end He would face, and He went to that cross. The people who stood against Him tried multiple times to capture Him, and He just walked away, with them able to do nothing. It wasn’t until the appointed time that He let them capture Him. He put it bluntly when He said if He choose, a legion of angels would protect Him. His death was the sacrifice. The resurrection is another gift, one of eternal life with Him. But, since you’re soooooo very smart and we Christians are soooooo very stupid, you know better than all of us put together. You know the Bible inside and out, front to back. You know it’s history, its deepest meaning, and you know it a hoax played for 2500+ years on the ones who wrote it. You know that though it’s a unified whole, one unbroken letter written to the people of earth of God’s undying love and deepest wish for us, that of course it cannot be true. You know that though it has remained in place for so long regardless of the attempts to bury, burn, or destroy it that it just cannot be truth. And how do you know these things? Simple really, because You say God isn’t real, and of course you’re never wrong.

            I leave you with one last thought. I will personally pray for you, Consider. I will pray you get to know Him before you get to meet Him. Have a blessed and wonderful day.

          • Consider

            You were an atheist…baloney. Yes baloney, I say this without knowing you.

            This is a tactic that is over exploited again and again: I am a Jew but I am against Israel, I am/was an atheist and listen what I have to say about nonbelievers etc….

            However it seems that you know me , and you know that I am a hater. Well for your information I hate religion as much as I hate the rain that is falling all day. It annoys me but I don’t hate it.

            Why it annoys me can be understood from the rest of your post which is a festival of nonsense.

          • Headed4TheHills

            Poor Consider, you rail repeatedly in ignorance, coming so close to the truth but shooting wide of the mark every time. I’m sorry you don’t believe me, but that’s okay. You are entitled to your opinion, whether right or wrong.

            I exploit no tactic, I will only tell you the truth. Whether you accept that truth for what it is or reject it is of course up to you. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’y make it drink.

            No, I don’t know you personally, but I know the type. Like I said, I was one once. I spoke as you do, saying the exact same things to the Christians around me. How they were ignorant, their beliefs foolish, a crutch to help them face the world. And I gave the same platitudes. “I don’t hate religion. I don’t hate blah de blah blah blah.” So, when I see you post (almost word for word) what I said in the past, I do feel as if I know you.

            Festival of nonsense? Truly, you don’t know how you match the non-believers Jesus spoke of in the Bible. He said the teaching of the cross would be seen as foolishness. And here you are, fulfilling that prophecy.

            And my ol’ friend, herb bently would chide me for continuing this for so long. He would most likely remind me of the cardinal rule of internet forums: DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.

            I leave you now, Consider. Hopefully wiser. And as Jesus instructed, I will shake the dust from my sandals and move on.

          • tagalog

            I don’t see him as getting very close to the truth; he seems to have learned his early lessons by rote from people who, in turn, don’t seem to have known very much, but were diligent in passing on the results of their intellectual laziness.

          • tagalog

            Where do you get 33.33% from? Remember, Jesus did not have a human father.

            The question you raise, what must seem to you an unanswerable conundrum (but isn’t) was answered in the 4th Century A.D. at the Nicaean Council, called by the Emperor Constantine. Christ was seen as having both a discrete divine nature and a discrete human nature, with all that portends. To this day, not all Christians agree on that, with the Copts and Maronites, among others, believing in what is called Monophysitism (Christ had only one nature, the divine).

            There is a great deal written about the nature of Jesus and the disputes over it; I assure you, the “problem” you raise is not a problem at all. There are far more sophisticated conundrums that people smarter than you and all the rest of us here on this forum have raised over the millennia.

            When you point out that Jesus was captured, you forget that He could have, with a wave of His hand, put His enemies to rout entirely, but instead submitted to them, knowing in advance what was going to happen to Him.

          • Consider

            “Where do you get 33.33% from?”
            From Trinity.

            ” Christ was seen as having both a discrete divine nature and a discrete human nature, with all that portends.”
            It portends nonsense.

      • tagalog

        If you find offense every time your intelligence is insulted, you must be quite an outraged person every minute of the day.

        Well, I take that back; maybe I’m overestimating certain things.

  • http://boogieforward.us/ K-Bob

    Anyone the least bit convinced that Jeb Bush or Chris Christie will even try to begin to roll back this contrived primacy of Islam in all forms of public policy?

    • billobillo54

      I am convinced that they won’t do one thing to expose Islam for what it is…and it’s the OPPOSITE of George Bush’s constant statement of faith that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is the body of antichrist. The only politician that I see that might expose Islam for the extreme evil that it is is Ted Cruz. And, I am not certain that he has the wherewithal to speak the absolute truth about Islam and do what’s necessary….eliminate all Muslim immigration into the U.S. for starters.

      • http://boogieforward.us/ K-Bob

        Yep. Bush definitely laid the groundwork for barack’s willful primacy of Islam over all other religions. BUsh was naive about it. barack has played the Democrats for fools.

  • dwayne roberson

    This diversity agenda grows more sinister daily. The ‘our strength is in our diversity’ canard must be destroyed. Under the cloak of tolerance the antithesis is achieved. In truth, there is no real strength in diversity. Variety is nice, and tolerance is American, but legitimate strength in human associations is found in commonality. When common values, institutions and virtue are shared the collective strength is amazing. Freedom, self reliance, limited constitutional government, and individual rights are the common thread that has given the United States it’s legitimate strength. Progressive policy gave us gun free zones at Fort Hood. Now they want chaplains to operate in Bible free zones.The diversity agenda, in an icon, is Jonah Golberg’s book cover of ‘Liberal Fascism’ …smiley face…with Hitler mustache.

  • GSR

    Historically, the armed forces was populated by aggressive White men, with strong patriotic, traditional, right of center views. The Left couldn’t stand that and had to change into just another government employee voting bloc for the Dems.

    Thus ,(laughable) 95lb young women “soldiers”, non-Whites, non-US citizens, homosexuals and even the “trans-gendered” (no such thing).
    The Left’s mission is complete.

    • mtman2

      That description is true, sad but in retrospect funny as it is disfunctional in the face of what lies before it to conquer……NOT!
      The 1st major wartime dieoff(sorry to say) will cause some real butt kicking in high places as the public gets incensed and things will revert to reality in order to take the field of battle.
      By then the Globalist U.N. may also get the boot from all the “Police-Actions” they ‘mandate’ and Democrat habit of 1/2 arses wars while giving away the farm and planet to the commies and other sworn enemies ~!

  • dwayne roberson

    I am not sure if this was an optional session or not. Was the “offended” soldier in voluntary attendance? I’m sorry, but chaplains I have met are not spiritual bullies. Have a Merry Winter!

  • cacslewisfan

    “Lighten up Francis.” – Sargent Hulka

    • Headed4TheHills

      *applause*
      cacslewisfan for the win

  • namberak

    You read depressing garbage like this, it’s hard not to at least wonder, cuts to defense or not, whether the US could win a war now if it had to. Between the world wars socialist parasites so undermined the morale of the French Army that it collapsed at the first blow from Germany in 1940. Sure, there were certainly many military blunders in the field, but the French were missing the support of knowing and believing what they were fighting for. France had been rotted away from within by those parasites. As a student of history I’m forced to ask, where are we now?

    • dwayne roberson

      A plate of 1928, served alongside another plate of 1938, with lots of gravy, and a 9/11 open desert bar.

    • bigjulie

      I am an atheist, but one has to wonder about Col. Fivecoat’s intent in reprimanding a CHAPLAIN for expressing his experience with his Christian faith in trying to help deal with a soldier’s depression. Just what does the good Colonel expect a CHAPLAIN to do?
      I’m sorry, but Colonel Fivecoat is an asshole!

  • kiwi41

    The real evil here is in the form of Colonel Fivecoat……………..any guesses as to his ethnicity. You really couldn’t make this $hit up. I hope the RMRFC hang the colonel out to dry.

    And I’d wonder what ” faith ” the complainant really is ……………….As an atheist, I have no problem with any religion , other than the death cult of iz slime.

    Bloody disqus censorship !

    • mtman2

      Hadn’t noticed censorship from them, but am using lo-key languaging.
      But it is sad that an Army Chaplain, same ones that got us thru the wars with the British to be free, can’t do their job now when it may be the one thing that can help a soldier.
      Obviously a soldier has free choice unless it’s taken out of the equation and away like this ~!

  • RL

    The continued ruination of a Once Great Nation!

  • tagalog

    Let me see if I’ve got this right: a CHAPLAIN got into trouble for placing written references to RELIGIOUS approaches to dealing with depression in a handout because the handout he distributed was offensive to one atheist soldier?

    What is offensive about a religious reference to one who doesn’t believe in God? At worst it’s just irrelevant to him.

    What happened to MEN being in the Army? Oh wait, I forgot; we let the girls in now.

    Maybe it’s time for the Army to get rid of chaplains.

    • dwayne roberson

      I think they are now doing just that.

    • kiwi41

      Maybe it’s time for a military coup , with summary execution for ALL traitors in the employment of the government.

  • timpottorff

    More evidence that the ‘tolerant’ ones cannot tolerant dissent. The left must have uniformity of thought or else. They talk of ‘freedom’ but it doesn’t look like the freedom that built this once great nation. We are a mere blip on the timeline of history. The barbarians have infiltrated the school system and are entrenched in the governing elite. The ‘transformational’ president is pushing forward to cripple our nation and the compliant media looks the other way. Unless there is a major national crisis, either economically or physically, to wake us from our sleep to oust these parasites, we will crumble into a third-rate nation.
    Without a coherent conservative world view, the people of our country have no clear direction. Without clear direction, they will wander in the wilderness and the country will be changed seemingly overnight…but actually we could see it coming for decades.

    • Hank Rearden

      …and the Left HATES NORMALITY!!

      They see a normal, happy social group – be it an Army unit, a family, a working business, a neighborhood – and they have to ruin it! THAT is what is REALLY going on here.

      The complainant isn’t really offended for himself, he HATES the sustenance the others are getting from it.

  • cree

    Before the aggrieved classes made full use of exploiting discontent and got sanction to tell the rest of us what we could and could not do, they simply had the free choice to except or reject anything they wanted. That had worked as well as could be expected, until… No one really had any reason to complain because nothing was and still is not forced.

    What works isn’t good enough for leftists because some kind of grievance is always tormenting them and they in turn afflict the vast majority of the rest without mercy with self righteous delight and then some kind of severe punishment for just being socially neutral or indifferent. It seems they just can’t stand that. It’s all for that preparation for their utopia, don’t you know?

  • Peter Castle

    This is a continued attack against Jesus – just as King Herod did 2,000 years ago.

    See “True Meaning of Christmas” at http://wp.me/p4scHf-6w.

  • FedUpWithWelfareStates

    Chaplains, Evangelical Christian Preachers, etc. the very first thing you need to remember when conducting ANY kind of training outside of the pulpit, is to FIRST ask if there is anyone in the audience who will be offended if anything is mentioned concerning biblical information…when it comes to H/Os’, keep them separate & just have them laid out on a table in the back of the venue. This way a person has to pick up the flyer/brochure as a voluntary act…thus clearing you…time to get smart & fight back.

  • Bob Sten

    Christians should ban joining the services until this changes. The military would then change right quick.

    • kiwi41

      That would please the PONS in DC, then its masters would have considerably less opposition when it hands them the keys…..

  • tagalog

    Why doesn’t somebody just tell the atheists that they ought to stay away from the chaplains if they don’t want to be offended by religion?

    I thought that atheists try to pass themselves off as smarter than the rest of us religious folks. I guess that was a mistake.

    • Tim Hains

      Yeah, what was the atheist doing listening to a chaplain anyway?

    • mark

      Atheists have done much to make the muslims proud of them by attacking christianity.

      But of course being muslims, they also cannot wait to behead the atheists. raping them, their wives and children and stealing their possessions.

  • USARetired

    Those responsible for persecuting this Chaplin should be dealt with severely. We still live in a Christian Nation and those who object must find elsewhere reside!

  • Tim Hains

    This is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read. He is the CHAPLAIN(!) after all. Colonel Fivecoat sounds like he needs fragged.

  • vonrock

    Festering boils for Barack !

  • reyol

    Ironically, the Army (as does the other services) has Mental Health professionals that would be better suited for the Army’s approach to Suicide Prevention. However, these people sit in their offices and expect Soldiers to keep their appointments or they will make their displeasure known to the highest rung of the chain-of-command. Chaplains are trained to go out to the troops wherever they are and find problems. This is why they are made further useful by being assigned as Suicide Prevention officers. Perhaps the chaplains should be relieved of this additional duty of “causing death by powerpoint” and the Mental Health professionals should make themselves useful by taking on what is, ostensibly, their field of expertise.

    • billobillo54

      Great point…however, as a Christian, I want a preacher of the gospel and not a mere rationalist. “The gospel is the power of God unto salvation…” The gospel WORKS, DELIVERS, SAVES, HEALS, COMFORTS, PURIFIES, SANCTIFIES, STRENGTHENS, FREES…BECAUSE THE PRINCE OF PEACE IS THE GOSPEL.

  • mark

    Ah so it was the association of militant, rabid and non thinking Atheists and Freesthinkers,

  • badenguru

    Diversity is the Trojan horse of Islam. Erode what American values are left since we can pray in our schools and have to accommodate those professing to be Islamic adherents on the strength of equal rights. No more Christmas celebrations anywhere because it offends. Australia had it right fit in or get out.

  • herb benty

    This is America folks! A Christian Army Chaplin can’t mention Christianity or he will be punished. Thanks for the transformation Mr Obama. Our Founders had a church, IN Congress, and the U.S.A. became the world Leader. Now…..no prayer or mention of our glorious Lord God or His Word, and America disintegrates. Not complicated, really.

    • billobillo54

      God bless you Bro Herb.

  • georgejochnowitz

    ISIS is trying to teach the world what blind faith means. Nobody is learning.

    • cjkcjk

      Wow, moral equivalency is brain rot at it’s worst.

  • donqpublic

    And Rational Emotive Therapy, Transactional Analysis, and Psychoanalysis are not systems of belief? Why have a Chaplin? Why not an astrologer or a goat entrails reader: ah, but those are systems of belief too. What a crock of caca.

  • billobillo54

    Dear antisharia: You hit the nail on the head. This is all about progressive, secularist, atheist hegemony and dominance. They are opening the way for the ultimate antimessiah-Islam.

  • slicerdicer

    January 21st, 2016, chaplain’s will be allowed to be religious again.

    • JVR

      Dream on…

  • Chris Gait

    The country allowed this to happen. They accepted the left’s positions, kept them in office for decades, allowed them to take control of the CIA, the military, etc., gave a virulently anti-American ‘organizer’ the White House, twice. I saw this garbage starting to set up in the military 25 years ago. Now it is reaching a point of no return. The only thing that is keeping people enlisting is the low availability of decent jobs. Same situation I had when I came in, under Carter. Only now we have someone much worse than Carter, twice.

    The country is getting what it wanted. This is the type of people they want. Chaplains punished for being religious and a president who hates America. I’m just going to shut up and enjoy Christmas and turn of the news for a while.

    • GSR

      Exactly right. Well put.

  • JVR

    Impeccably of no faith whatsoever.

  • rhondajo3

    We have a Muslim in office who actually thinks that this is no longer a Christian nation. This administration is desperately trying to wipe Christianity off the US map, and it is starting with the military. Obama wants to turn the US into a Muslim country with sharia law, and he wants to be its dictator. Excuse me while I go puke…

    • Consider

      From the Treaty of Tripoli of June 10, 1797 signed by the then president John Adams;

      “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;…etc”
      The US was more advanced in the eighteenth century than it is today.

  • JD

    I find it interesting that Colonel Fivecoat read the way the wind is blowing – given that every colonel thinks that long ago they should have been promoted to general – and acted accordingly. I am glad there is push back and assistance from the Family Research Council, Restore Military Religious Freedom Coalition, the Liberty Institute, and our own congress including language in the National Defense Authorization Acts (NDAA). And, with all that Colonel Fivecoat thought is was in his best interests to reprimand his battalion champlain. Nevertheless, Colonel Fivecoat has ruined any chance for further promotion and even any leeway in future assignments for this chaplain and he knows it. In today’s army, as in my day, it just takes one blemish to halt and often finish an officer’s career.

    A brief bio of Colonel Fivecoat indicates he is a USMA graduate and a graduate of the CGSC, Fort Leavenworth. He has several combat assignments in Iraq and Afghanistan and has written in key army journals of his experiences. So, it is really disturbing that an officer of this caliber as an infantryman has chosen to treat his battalion chaplain in this manner. My point is that if senior field grade officers are taking this approach, what must they be thinking is key to getting them ahead in their careers? This does not bode well for an army winning on the battlefield of the future.

    By the way, when I was in the army, 20 years ago, the opposite would have occurred. The soldier that complained to this civilian group would have been reprimanded, not necessarily formally, for going outside the chain of command in dealing with a concern. In my mind, he should still be reprimanded. However, it is clear that he is part of a special protected group that makes a full colonel jump to!

    In a far more important matter, Is it any wonder that the army’s colonels and generals that know full well what went down in Benghazi are silent? What other battles have been lost and initiatives abdoned that we are not hearing about because this administration has spread fear of careers ended and even retaliation should the truth come to light?

    • Mjolnir

      Since we all know that being promoted to O7 requires political skill and an ear to the political ground, I assume the good Colonel understood that in order to get promoted under the Obama administration, he had to reprimand the chaplain for engaging in the free practice of religion – a fundamental right that Obama is fully determined to see eliminated.

      • Consider

        May ISIS freely practice religion in your neighborhood.

        • Mjolnir

          WTF? If you have something intelligent to say, then say it. Don’t post meaningless juvenile snarky witlessicisms.

          • Consider

            Write something that is not nonsense.

  • Headed4TheHills

    herb, ol’ buddy, you a preacher some where?

    • herb benty

      No way, just an ex-logger, tugboater, who always found time to read “something good”( as Mom always advised), before sleep.

      • Headed4TheHills

        Mom DOES know best, after all. God bless ya, herb.

  • USARetired

    Actions such as this injustice to a young Officer make me ashamed of the 30 years I spent in the U.S.Army! i certainly would not repeat one day under current conditions!

  • Consider

    If I join the Army I don’t want my intelligence to be insulted.

    • Hank Rearden

      That’s not it at all.

      As as Lefty, you hate normality. You can’t stand to see people contented with getting on in life. It drives you up the wall to see the support, the sustenance that your comrades get from religion. So rather than just sitting quietly for a very few minutes and keeping your peace as we all do socially frequently in order to grease human relations, you want to have a tantrum. Because you are unhappy, you want everybody else to be. That is what is going on here.

      This being America, I very very strongly suspect that the assembly in question is voluntary. You go if it helps you, you don’t if it doesn’t. Probably been true since the beginning of the Republic.

      But it is normal, successful, sustaining to its congregants and you as a Lefty just can’t stand that. Militant atheism is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. There is no logic to it.

      You are making an issue where none really exists. That is the truth of the matter. “Insults your intelligence.” Our intelligence is insulted every day. A balanced person lives with it. A good person rejoices is the comfort of his comrades.

      That is not you.

      • Consider

        Who told you that I am a Lefty?
        I am neither a Lefty nor a Righty.
        I just go through the web look for intelectual rubbish and argue.

        • tagalog

          I see you exclude your own intellectual rubbish, which has reached prodigious proportions.

          • Consider

            You are entitled to your opinion.

          • Consider

            It is good to be the best in something, whatever it is.

    • tagalog

      Then you’d better not join the Army. Not only will they insult your intelligence, they will convince you for the rest of your life that the insults are well-founded. And you know what? They’ll turn out to have been mostly right. You will gain the invaluable virtue of rarely taking your views for granted again.

      • Consider

        Is this a threat?
        They shall send me to clear mines again and again…?

  • uisconfruzed

    What’s the symbol for a chaplain? I don’t know now, it used to be a cross. Christianity IS the chaplain’s business. If you don’t like it, Du-Oh! DON’T ATTEND!!

    • Consider

      What with the Jews?
      No chaplains for them?

      • uisconfruzed

        I don’t know, rabbi chaplain?

        • Consider

          So is Christianity the chaplain’s business or it is not?

  • mtman2

    “Well” the early Christ followers actually had an excuse to hide or be burned on garden stakes or fed to lions……….
    But WE Americans have NOT ONE EXCUSE, as nothing has seriously been done to stand against the inroads as true Faith waned so by 1954 a socialist monster like LBJ when churches stood against him and he introduced 501c3′s (greed+fear reigned), then in 1963+4 both the Christian Bible and prayer is banned from public schools.
    Look up the massive fight to stop this along with public outrage???
    Oh yeah, there was NONE.
    So why would the socialist/commie illitists stop now? What because they respect us? …..or fear us, HAH!!!
    “You got to serve somebody”- Bob Dylan
    “Choose you this day whom you will serve” – Joshua 24:15
    Well somebodies servin somebody, it ain’t the one that brought here ~!

  • tagalog

    Hitler was well-known, both in his own time and in ours, to be willing to say anything that would get him votes. Judge him by his actions, not his words. He was as godless as Lenin or Stalin. A speech made in 1922 by a person who took national power a decade later is not helpful to understanding the inner, later, man.

    • Consider

      “God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work.
      Radio address, 30 January 1945; from Thomas Streissguth (2002). World War II. New York: Greenhaven Press, p. 118.”
      How many votes has he needed in January 1945.

      • tagalog

        By January 1945 Hitler needed the German people united behind him, and would say anything that might help bring them together in the rubble.

  • Red Baker

    The next Republican presidential candidate’s platform should include strong steps to de-radicalize the Pentagon and restore common sense.

    When our top general is more worried about offending Muslims than he is about protecting his troops from Muslim terrorist assassins such as Nidal Hassan, the Pentagon leadership is obviously insane.

  • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

    Nope.. You’re so out of touch with reality..

    Try the year he assumed power…

    Even Obama said he was a Christian..

    Do you still believe Obama?

    <3 Muah!

    • Consider

      I posted a quote from his speech from 1945. Sorry, in 1946 he was no longer alive.

      • http://www.dilbert.com scook84

        Sowell, 2012 documented the left’s obsession with the Eugenics movement.. Hitler referred to Madison Grant’s “The Passing of the Great Race” as his “Bible”.

        It was the Eugenics movement that inspired Hitler to institute policies leading to the Holocaust.

        Once the horrors of Eugenics were exposed after WWII, progressives quickly distanced themselves from the Eugenics movement and re-labeled themselves as “Liberals”..

        <3 Muah!

  • tagalog

    Just a couple of observations, not arguing with your views:
    1. Schroedinger’s beliefs, if you can call them that, amount to mathematical theorem that in quantum physics, you can’t know what the state of an object is until you observe it, at which point that thing’s ability to be more than one thing disappears and it takes on the characteristics that the observer has seen;
    2. The philosophy of the Nazis, such as it was, grounded itself in tribalism, called “culture” in the Third Reich. Civilization, the observed alternative to culture, was seen by the Nazis as a creation of Christianity, and, as you point out, was deemed to be effete and consisting of greater and lesser (but always inferior to the Aryan culture) “mongrel” cultures. The focus on tribalism is part of the reason why the Third Reich featured back-to-nature movements, unrestricted conception and birth, the outlawing of abortion, Hitler Youth, all sorts of outdoor activities, and the like.

    • Consider

      The Schroedinger’s definition of death has nothing to do with the “Schroedinger’s cat” mental experiment.

  • tagalog

    Not in MY church, which has 2,000 or 3,000 people at every service.

    Or, for that matter, at the church I went to as a child, where there were far fewer in the congregation and you could look out from the altar and actually pick out individuals.

  • tagalog

    For myself, I prefer to provide my own security, with the help of the police, a necessary and proper function of government, to wit: the preservation of the peace and the public order.

  • DireMouse

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
    PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.