10,000 Black Palestinians Struggle with Racism in Gaza

Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam. He is completing a book on the international challenges America faces in the 21st century.


She's uh... native. Really.

She’s uh… native. Really.

Incidentally that means that some 1% of Muslims in Gaza are Africans, in part or in whole, and are fairly recent arrivals, rather than any kind of native residents of the land.

That’s not surprising since the “Palestinians” are mainly Arabs from the region who moved in. That goes triple for the Arab Muslims who usually followed the Christians and then took over places like Bethlehem and Ramallah.

Al-Monitor met with political activist Samah al-Rawagh, 33, at her home and asked her whether she experienced any discrimination due to her skin color. She made light of the matter. Yet, when her father Ahmad al-Rawagh, 80, recounted incidents he had experienced involving racism, Samah was shocked. “That’s the first time I’ve heard such stories from you,” she said.

“I struggled a lot to overcome the difficulties caused by the color of my skin. I always had to doubly prove myself at school, at work and in life, because I’m dark-skinned,” Ahmad said.

He said that they are originally from Sudan. His ancestors came at the beginning of the 20th century and lived in Palestine — in a village called Roubin, neighboring Jaffa — until 1948, when they were forced to migrate to the Gaza Strip. “But I never felt that I did not belong here. Palestine is the homeland I have always known, and is a homeland to about 10,000 other dark-skinned people in the Gaza Strip.”

10,000 is a lot of people proportionately speaking. There are more Afro-Turks and Afro-Iraqis, but 10,000 Arab Africans in Gaza alone suggests that they came as part of a massive emigration.

There are no clear historical sources that speak about the African minority in Gaza, but there is an oral history passed down by families from one generation to the next. Journalist Ali Bakhit, 28, said that he learned from his great-uncle that his family originally comes from Ghana.

“Africans first entered Palestine during the Islamic conquests, specifically when Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab entered Jerusalem, accompanied by a number of Africans. African communities from Chad, Nigeria, Sudan and Senegal came in the late 19th century, either for worship or to participate in the resistance,” Bakhit noted in an interview with Al-Monitor.

So we’re talking about conqueror settlers settling down. The Africans are the most obvious ones. But the rest were foreign settlers of a conquering empire as well displacing the indigenous Jewish inhabitants.
But there’s also slavery and more recent Ottoman empire building and military colonists.
According to Gaza Through History, a book by Ibrahim Sakik, wealthy families in the Gaza Strip participated in the slave trade hundreds of years ago. Another book, Delighting in the Wealth of Gaza’s History, notes that some of the residents of the Palestinian village of Berbera were dark-skinned people who came from Morocco.Al-Monitor asked multiple historians about the African minority, yet most of them noted that there were no books dealing with their history. “The majority of families with dark skin in Gaza originate from Sudan and Egypt, many of them came to work in the Ottoman Empire’s army hundreds of years ago,” noted Palestinian historian Salim Moubayed, speaking to Al-Monitor by phone.The “black neighborhood”

Next to the Rawagh family’s home there is an entire area on Jala Street inhabited by dark-skinned Gazans. The people and taxi drivers refer to it as the “black neighborhood” or the “dark-skinned neighborhood.”

Gaza has its own ghetto.

  • A Z

    “African communities from Chad, Nigeria, Sudan and Senegal came in the late 19th century, either for worship or to participate in the resistance,” Bakhit noted in an interview with Al-Monitor.”

    Resistance to who? The Muslim Turks?

    • Edward E

      Mass foreign race immigration did not happen “with mutual consent”.

      It was FORCED.

      No White country was EVER given a vote on whether it wanted to become multiracial.

      Foreign race Assimilation is FORCED in EVERY & ONLY White countries
      in employment, law, education, housing, healthcare, sports, policing
      etc.

      An “all-White” anything is illegal in White countries.
Combine mass
      immigration and FORCED assimilation and you have a clear policy of White
      geNOcide.

      Anti-racist is a >code< for Anti-White.

    • Jazz Payton

      This is HILARIOUS! BLACK PEOPLE INVADING HISTORICALLY BLACK LAND…. Are you all really that stupid?

      • Pete

        The people of the Middle East are semitic not black.

        The Semitic people are related to black people just as Semitic peoples are related to Caucasians.

        Are you saying that Arabs cannot tell the difference between themselves and Senegalese at a glance?

        • SteveBiko

          Arab is not a race, it’s an ethnicity. What he’s saying is that black people are native to the so-called “middle east”. Archeology proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The pale-skinned ones are Mamelukes (slave soldiers/mercenaries) imported by the ORIGINAL black arabs, Ottomans, Greeks, Romans (Byzantines) and descendants of WHITE (yes, that’s right) slaves that the ottomans gathered from all over during the course of time.

          Why do you think these idiots wear those long robes all the time, if they were indigenous, they’d have brown skin, just like any african. White skin isn’t exactly a good thing to have in those regions of the world. The Sun and its UV-rays are far too dangerous.

          • Pete

            The Hamito-Semetic Group is made up of the Semites, Cushites and Berbers. The Berbers for all intents and purposes look white. The type stretches from Egypt through Spain. You can see this through DNA analysis. The DNA is not from the Muslims invasion but is older and predates Roman times.

            You find darker people in some locals in Iraq. This is from the African slave trade. In the 9th century slaves almost defeated their Muslims Arab slave master and seized the country.This was called the Zanj Rebellion or Negro Rebellion. Zanj is another name for Bantu. The Bantu are not native to the Arabian peninsula. You can see the results of the slave trade in the faces of many Iraqis.

            The slave trade is also responsible for the African admixture found in Baluchistan and has influenced their music.

            The slave trade is also responsible for African ancestry found in Yemen.

            Zanzibar in Africa was a large slave market it was controlled by Oman. Who also controlled …. you guessed it Baluchistan for a time.

            In short Semites do not look like Celts, Germans or white people nor did they look like Nilo-saharans or Negroes from West Africa.

            You should get the book
            The Penguin atlas of African History by Colin McEvedy.

      • Pete

        Here is what is really creepy.

        The West African Muslims who came to Gaza over a hundred years ago are still distinct from other “good” Muslims.

        Everything being equal there would have been more intermarriage.

        But there is not.

        Those Arab Muslims must be too good to marry African Muslims

        ***
        That is almost as creepy and lame as you posting a reply to a comments 3 months old.

  • SoCalMike

    Once I had a professor in a class for teachers instruct the class that if you were not white, you could not possibly be racist and if AND ONLY if you were white by virtue of being white you were by definition racist regardless of whatever beliefs or feelings about race you held however non-racist. You were a member of the “power class” and by definition the R word.
    Still blows my mind I dumped money and time on this class but some things you just have to see for yourself.

    • Bamaguje

      You should have reported the ‘prof’ to university authorities.

      • Dan Borden

        For what….so the loon could get special recognition?? On today’s college campuses such idiocy is WELCOMED.

    • Smokey Grey

      That’s not even a logical statement. Speaks more to the quality of the staff than the curriculum. As a Soc. major I have never once heard ANY professor make a comment any where close to that, and I attended the ultra- LIBERAL UNC-Chapel Hill.

    • Yusuf O. Osman

      Quite senseless tbh!
      I would’ve countered his nonsensical argument if i were you! :)
      I’m Somalian & within our ethnic sphere, there’s tribal discrimination & in the larger-context, A large majority of Somali’s have disturbing views of our neighbouring countrymen! Physical feature wise, People of the horn of Africa look somehow different than other African people & in our language, They’ve coined a term namely called, ” Jareer & Madow “, to describe darker-skinned people or excessively dark Africans, “Jareer” roughly translates as ” Someone with wholly hair ” & “Madow” roughly means, Black & whenever they used it to describe other non-Somali Africans, It’s frequently meant in a negative manner, derogatory if i may say.
      A considerable majority of my people have this false-sense of superiority over other Africans mainly because, in their eyes, they look better ( soft features, often thought to be more Caucasian like ) & other factors among, so in short, Racism isn’t an only ‘ white ‘ issue, it’s a plague that rears its head in every society world-wide & my example is but merely one of the 100′s of other examples out there!

  • De Doc

    Where racism is concerned Islam is never an issue per Leftist mindset.

  • Alleged Comment

    So, you have African Negroes passing themselves off as Palestinians.

    We got one here passing himself off as president.

    • saiah

      Seriously??

      • Alleged Comment

        You heard what Ali said, his family CAME FROM GHANA!! He is African negroid, not Palestinian!

    • Janet Buddle-Price

      You are an idiot. Sometimes when idiots decide to think its best to keep your dumb thoughts to yourself

      • Alleged Comment

        The truth is sore sometimes. There was nothing wrong with what I said, but there is something wrong with Greenfield and his cowardice to deduce it to censorship.

        Very manly of him.

  • Vesuvius

    So how is this an article about racism?

  • kilfincelt

    If anyone really wants to know about Arabs and racism, I suggest the following: “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa” by John Alembillah Azumah and “The Veiled Genocide” by Tidiane N’Diaye, a Sengalese Muslim. Unfortunately, the latter book is only available in French and needs to be translated, but it is any eye-opener.

  • American Patriot

    Shut up, you Islamist and supporter of Islamist Iran and racist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel has the only liberal democracy in the Middle East and Arabs living in Israel have more rights and liberties as Israeli citizens than people living in other countries in the Middle East. Why don’t you denounce the Islamist dictatorship in Sudan, which has committed genocide against its black African Christian population? It is because you support all the Islamist regimes. Learn from facts instead of echoing Islamist lies and propaganda.

  • Dan Borden

    Blacks in Israel have much better lives than blacks in any islamic sh!thole.

  • Gee

    Racism in Israel? Compared to whom? Israel has never had a single racial law – EVER. Now tell us which other country can make the same claim, I dare you to name one that has as good a record as Israel.
    The attacks are BY the blacks – who just so happen to be illegal African Muslim migrants. So you are a racist moronic liar.

    • Ali

      I made a reply to Steven Raff, in which I replied to your comment as well

  • American Patriot

    There is no apartheid in Israel, you Islamist useful idiot. Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where homosexuals can hold a gay pride parade and not be persecuted. In your beloved so-called “Palestinian” (and I use the word “so-called” as well as quotes when I mention the word “Palestinian” because they are not an ethnicity nor is “Palestine” a nation-state. “Palestine” is simply another name for the Holy Land region) territories, as well as other countries in the Middle East (including your beloved Hezbollah’s Lebanon, Assad’s Syria and Islamist Iran), anyone holding a gay pride parade in thrown in jail, stoned to death and/or lynched from cranes for the “horrible crime” of being homosexual. Women have full rights and liberties in Israel, while in other Middle East countries (including your beloved “Palestinian”-ruled jurisdictions) they are treated like chattel and are regularly stoned to death by Islamist fanatics who hate women. And Jews are not allowed in many areas of other Middle East countries. Name me one Islamist leader who wants peace with Israel and the Jews, you radical Islamist useful idiot? The so-called “Palestinians” are an invented people. The so-called “nationality” was invented by the Soviet Union through the KGB and its puppet organization, the PLO, during the 1960s in order to try and discredit Israel’s right to exist.

  • American Patriot

    I already mentioned about the fact that Arabs living in Israel have more rights and liberties as Israeli citizens than people living in other countries in the Middle East. Regarding Hezbollah, the name of that Islamist terror organization ruling Lebanon means the “Party of God”. It is an Islamist militant organization just like Hamas who has the same goals as Hamas (Hamas’ goals are to destroy Israel and to commit a second Holocaust), and is funded by Islamist Iran. It is ridiculous that there are radical leftists and other supporters of Islamist aggression who call Iran democratic, while never mentioning the fact that Iran’s full name is the “Islamic Republic of Iran”. Unlike Israel’s full name (“State of Israel”), Iran’s full name has a name of a religion in the title. Furthermore, you don’t mention the fact that Assad’s Syria is a brutal dictatorship who has the backing of neo-Communist Russia, Communist China and Islamist Iran. Not only do those regimes not oppose the Assad regime, as well as the Islamist dictatorship in Sudan, but they openly support the Assad dictatorship because of their shared goals of destroying democracy, imposing a worldwide Communist/Islamist dictatorship and destroying the West, particularly the United States. Regarding Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda, another fact about those terrorist organizations is that they are both funded by (and are affiliated with) the Muslim Brotherhood, whose main goal is to impose a global Islamist fundamentalist state. Quit being an apologist for radical leftist/Islamist aggression.

    • Guest

      To claim a status, you have to prove it. Just by repeating
      the status you cant prove it! I don’t know which part of the definition of
      liberal democracy is hard for you to understand!

      A Liberal Democratic country is a country in which all
      citizens have equal rights and equal opportunities. Their human rights are
      respected and they are not subject to systematic discrimination.

      I already gave enough reasoning and presented enough proofs
      to show how far Israel and a liberal democracy are. The problem sometimes is
      not the truth, is the people who cant digest them!

      You mentioned the name of Israel is “ State of Israel ”.
      Does that cover up for the fact all Israeli politicians call it the Jewish
      State as well? In the recent negotiations with PLO one of the main requests of
      Israeli side was that PLO recognize Israel as a Jewish state which is the best
      example and sign of systematic discrimination against all other citizens.

      You mentioned Iran and its name to be “ Islamic Republic of
      Iran “ and called it non democratic for that reason and the discrimination against
      non Muslims there. Well, great that you mentioned that, because you just proved
      my point yourself that calling a country by a specific religion, color or
      ethnic group feature is an obvious sign of discrimination against others. Obviously
      Islamic Republic of Iran is not a democratic regime for the same reason, but
      the problem is that you consider that reason a sign of not being a democracy in
      the case of Iran but in the case of Israel you suddenly change all standards.

      Also you claimed there has never been a Palestinian nation!
      Well, at this point its obvious that your goal is not to have an educated discussion.
      Maybe more of trying to make other laugh! Not a bad idea if you explain who
      these millions of people living in the occupied area are? As far as we know,
      after creation of Israel, Palestinian systematically been pushed out of the
      lands and forced to refugee camps and no one has been allowed back, so who are
      these millions there? Have they appeared out of nowhere? The demographic data
      of people before creation of Israel in that area is well documented and
      available and shows Muslim Arabs are the significant majority of the region.
      Are you really trying to say the immigration of Zionists to that region didn’t happen??

      Plus you keep repeating the Arabs don’t have much rights in
      other Arab countries as well. Are you trying to blame your support and American
      support for the dictators in Arab countries on the people who are subjected to
      those dictators? If it wasn’t Israel and American support for such dictators
      they would be gone long time ago. So don’t try to project crimes of others on
      those people!

      You also mentioned the support of some for Assad in Syria to
      make a communist/Islamist regime there. Not a bad idea if you at least search
      the definition of terms before stating claims. Communism is in total
      contradiction in major aspects with Islamic states . I should note Islamic
      states meaning can vary significantly based on interpretations however in non
      of them is it can be unified with communism as in communism there is
      significant opposition against religious power and ruling system.

      In addition, you said all Islamic groups like Hezbollah and
      Al Qaede are all the same as they are all supported by Muslim Brotherhood. Well,
      if you are not familiar with the politics of the region, its OK, but at least
      you can do some research before stating such claims. At least you can give some
      thoughts about them. Didn’t you really think with yourself that If they are the
      same and both supported by the same party why they are fighting against each
      other in Syria?

      The time for discrimination based on religion, race or color
      is long gone, I wish everyone could realize that!

    • Ali

      To claim a status, you have to prove it. Just by repeating the status you cant prove it! I don’t know which part of the definition of liberal democracy is hard for you to understand!

      A Liberal Democratic country is a country in which all
      citizens have equal rights and equal opportunities. Their human rights are respected and they are not subject to systematic discrimination.

      I already gave enough reasoning and presented enough proofs to show how far Israel and a liberal democracy are. The problem sometimes is
      not the truth, is the people who cant digest them!

      You mentioned the name of Israel is “ State of Israel ”.
      Does that cover up for the fact all Israeli politicians call it the Jewish State as well? In the recent negotiations with PLO one of the main requests of Israeli side was that PLO recognize Israel as a Jewish state which is the best
      example and sign of systematic discrimination against all other citizens.

      You mentioned Iran and its name to be “ Islamic Republic of Iran “ and called it non democratic for that reason and the discrimination against non Muslims there. Well, great that you mentioned that, because you just proved my point yourself that calling a country by a specific religion, color or ethnic group feature is an obvious sign of discrimination against others. Obviously
      Islamic Republic of Iran is not a democratic regime for the same reason, but the problem is that you consider that reason a sign of not being a democracy in
      the case of Iran but in the case of Israel you suddenly change all standards.

      Also you claimed there has never been a Palestinian nation!
      Well, at this point its obvious that your goal is not to have an educated discussion.
      Maybe more of trying to make other laugh! Not a bad idea if you explain who these millions of people living in the occupied area are? As far as we know, after creation of Israel, Palestinian systematically been pushed out of the lands and forced to refugee camps and no one has been allowed back, so who are
      these millions there? Have they appeared out of nowhere? The demographic data of people before creation of Israel in that area is well documented and
      available and shows Muslim Arabs are the significant majority of the region.
      Are you really trying to say the immigration of Zionists to that region didn’t happen??

      Plus you keep repeating the Arabs don’t have much rights in other Arab countries as well. Are you trying to blame your support and American support for the dictators in Arab countries on the people who are subjected to those dictators? If it wasn’t Israel and American support for such dictators they would be gone long time ago. So don’t try to project crimes of others on
      those people!

      You also mentioned the support of some for Assad in Syria to make a communist/Islamist regime there. Not a bad idea if you at least search the definition of terms before stating claims. Communism is in total contradiction in major aspects with Islamic states . I should note Islamic states meaning can vary significantly based on interpretations however in non of them is it can be unified with communism as in communism there is significant opposition against religious power and ruling system.

      In addition, you said all Islamic groups like Hezbollah and Al Qaede are all the same as they are all supported by Muslim Brotherhood. Well, if you are not familiar with the politics of the region, its OK, but at least you can do some research before stating such claims. At least you can give some thoughts about them. Didn’t you really think with yourself that If they are the same and both supported by the same political party why they are fighting against each other in Syria?

      The time for discrimination based on religion, race or color is long gone, I wish everyone could realize that!

      • American Patriot

        You are obviously a Communist/Islamist troll paid by neo-Communist Russia and Islamist Iran to post their propaganda online. I noticed that you didn’t call the Assad regime in Syria a dictatorship. I also believe that you viewed the brutal dictator of Egypt, Nasser, as a “liberal democrat” because he was a Communist and a puppet of the Soviet Union. That’s your problem. You view all pro-Western leaders (whether democrats or autocrats) as American/Israeli “puppet dictators”, while viewing all of the Communist/Baathist/Islamist and anti-Western dictators who are puppets of neo-Communist Russia, Communist China and Islamist Iran as “democratic presidents”. So, in your world, Assad is a benevolent “president” loved by his people. You have a political agenda, you loon. And that agenda is to have the entire world dominated by Communists, Baathists, Islamists and the destruction of the United States and other democratic countries. As for the so-called “Palestinians”, they are not a people. They are simply Jordanians living outside of Jordan, which was part of the Palestine Mandate. Hence, Jordan is a Palestinian state. You also fail to mention that nearly half a million Jews were expelled from other countries in the Middle East during the late 1940s. Why aren’t there any Jewish refugees? Because Israel resettled them. The other countries in the region have never resettled any Arab refugees who left their homes during the 1948 war, which was started by the Arab states in their goal to destroy Israel. Also, Israel didn’t force any Arab to leave the Holy Land. As a matter of fact, the Arabs who stayed in Israel became Israeli citizens. You are a Communist/Islamist/Baathist propagandist. You are a Stalinst/Maoist who supports Communist/Islamist/Baathist totalitarianism. Learn from facts instead of repeating Communist/Islamist/Baathist propaganda.

        • Ali

          Well, I guess anyone who is familiar with the general debates would understand that the main proof for what I said and your lack of reasoning for your claims comes out of your own comments, as they are mainly curses or personal attacks against me rather than presenting reasons.
          Seems rather than bringing some reasoning against my claims and answering my claims, you prefer to assign me some words or beliefs and then criticizing them, as you find bringing reasons conflicting for yourself!
          In my past comments I said the regime inside Iran is obviously not a democratic regime, as well as those other Arab kingdoms. I guess it obviously shows what my standing towards Syrian regime is.
          Syrian regime is not democratic, however has been respective of other religions and minorities. For that reason, almost all minorities in Syria, specially Christians are fighting in support of the current regime. Its why at this point which we are left with bad and worse I prefer the current regime.
          I guess the better question would be why you are siding with Al Qaede?
          Although I prefer not to answer your personal attacks, I point at one that I did before as well, only as it shows how wrong your claims are. You called me a communist Islamist! As I told you before the idea of communism and Islamic state are at obvious contradictions! Not a bad idea if you search the terms before using them!
          Regarding your claim that Israel didnt force anyone out of their land, well I dont know what to call all those available videos of Israelis Bulldozing Palestinian homes! We are not talking about anything that far from history, or even something finished!
          Not a bad idea if you try to answer the contradictions I have already pointed at!

  • Steven Raff

    Your example is flawed, the law applies differently to citizens vs non-citezens, be they Palestinian, Chinese, etc. Sorry, but your point is driven by anti-Israeli sentiment and not honest evaluation of circumstance.

    • Ali

      Citizens vs. Non-Citizens? And what makes a citizen?
      If the measure is being born in a geographical area, based on the current system a European Zionist who has come to occupied land last week can be considered a citizen while a Palestinian whose fathers have been born in the land is not.
      If the measure is where they currently live, all settlers inside West Bank are considered citizens while people surrounding them not, if and only if they are Muslim Arabs.
      It obviously shows the term “citizen” is used for Zionists while non-citizen is used for Muslim Arabs.
      While you accused me of not being honest, I guess if you were honest you would have pointed at whose these terms are really used and made for.
      Using the term Non- citizen is the exact point that shows how fundamental and systematic apartheid in Israel is.
      It shows that by calling proffered people citizen and the second level people non-citizens, the system subject them to an entirely different rights and laws.
      Gee in another comment had asked which laws are racial? In this case situation is way more extreme as the entire second level people are subject to en entirely different law.
      In what other country you have seen that even real non citizens and not what the term is used in Israel or tourists to be subjected to using different roads? Or to be subjected to use different color car plates ?
      You also said I attempted “to stray from the topic of prejudice existing in Gaza”. I dont know if you read my comments really or not? If you had done so you would have seen that I said the slightest amount of racial discrimination that exist should addressed be corrected. However I made three some points.
      First, the fact that even the article says the daughter of the interviewee is shocked that his father has faced such discrimination, which shows almost such behaviors have vanished there, otherwise she would know about it and not shocked.
      Second, whatever is left if any, is an individual behavioral issue that make a cultural issue rather than being a systematic racial issue like in Israel.
      Third, and most important was the statement I started my first ever comment with, which was the fact that the whole agenda of the article is to project what Israelis are accused for on Palestinians. And I gave the example why I said so. Actually it was the reason I joined this conversation at all. If the article had only pointed at some discrimination in Gaza with the honest purpose of showing what is wrong and what should be corrected, most likely I wouldnt have even joined the conversation as no matter where or how big the discrimination is, it should be addressed.
      But the agenda of the article was a totally different thing

      • Steven Raff

        So basically, you take the revisionist approach to history and when you don’t like the facts, you simply make stuff up and write ridiculously long paragraphs with the hope of confusing and deflecting as a means of avoiding retreat. Your statement about unequal treatment under Israeli law was based upon a half truth, or a lie… take your pick. You would be better off admitting your incorrect statement and then moving forward, but you are obviously a backwards thinker so this will not happen. Beyond that, better than half of the Israeli population are sephardic or Mizrahi so your rhetoric about Israelis being European is just another one of your lies… er… half truths… again, take your pick. I suggest you get an education that extends beyond your bigotry and then come back.

        • Ali

          Well, I guess the fact that more than half of your comment is either accusing me of sth or insulting me
          shows how empty handed you are in supporting your claims.
          And yes, my comments may get long as I have enough reasoning and logic to present for my claims. The interesting point is that they get long without insulting or personal attacks which obviously is another sign that my claims are self exploratory.
          Second, in my example of the European who immigrates to the region clearly stated a single European
          as I was pointing at how discriminatory the laws that applies to people is. I never said all Jews in that area are from Europe, and I am sure you clearly know that, but the fact that you had no reasoning or counter claim made you change what I said to what I didnt so you can respond to what you can!
          Regarding your claim that before 1948 Palestinians were Jews, well, sometimes people have wishes but
          not always they are true. I know that even yourself know thats not true, so you may say that for someone who may end up here and read it, but do you really think in information age you can state something that contradictory to well documented history and they believe you?

          As a logical equation, if there was no one but Jews in that land before 1948 and the fact that Israelis always have pushed Arabs out rather than in, so that mean there shouldnt be any Arabs there now either! Your claim is wrong at the basic level of it!
          Do you really think saying that because Arabs dont have P in their alphabets there was no Palestine is a logical reasoning? Seriously?
          Plus, I guess I would know Arabic well enough to know about its alphabets! Just for your information I would say Arabs mainly replace P with B in their written language as P and B are the same with different amount of dots!
          Also, If Arabs use the world Palestine now obviously they could use it before as well! I think you got to bring some serious reasoning rather than this!
          Plus, the presence of Arabs in that land before 1948 has been well documented by British! Not Arabs!
          Not only the Jews were not the only ones there, but even they were not the majority. If they were the only ones there, what was all thousands of boats and ships bringing Zionists from all over the world to Palestine? You can still find videos of them on internet!
          Some of those immigrants came to Palestine with Palestinian passports! just read the book ” The son of the general” written by a Jewish Israeli who has written the story of his family.
          I also should point at a fact that I have tried to use Zionist term rather Jew is most of my comments. Thats for a reason that I dont think if this is a Jew versus Muslim or Arab issue. The fact is the most traditional Jews are against Zionism as everyone knows. There are also a lot of honest Jews who respect human rights and its why they oppose the situation made by Israel.
          Only those who try to try to escape from bringing reasons try to project the conflict as a Jews vs. Muslims issue

          • Steven Raff

            Wrong again, Im merely pointing out your lack of education and objectivity. thats not insult, thats reality. You didnt read what I wrote and I didn’t make any false claims about you. You focussed on European immigration so i merely corrected you. You bring up apartheid but we both know that only Muslim nations practice it… and that you have no problem with Muslim apartheid shows your blindness, your hypocrisy, and your bigotry. I suggest you try making your point in an academic arena if You think you are somehow above me in your knowledge. Beyond that, you are are a liar once again… most traditional Jews have come to recognize a need for Israel. Sorry, but your desire to see Israel vanish is not going to come to fruition. I suggest you become a forward thinker on this topic. Your lies will not lead to any productivity for either side.

          • Ali

            You have repeatedly talked about my lack of education regarding this case while you never presented a counter claim about the statements I made. The sign of lack of education regarding a case is to make false statements, which then should make it easy for you to bring counter claims. However you keep repeating that I have lack of education while not bringing any reasons.

            You claim that I am not educated regarding this issue, while you are the one that distant from this topic that you even dont know what the name of the country used by the Palestinians and Arabs!

            Also regarding personal attacks towards me, the interesting point is that even in this comment that you start by saying that you didnt insult me, the second half of your comment is only personal attacks! Well, I dont care about that, I only mentioned it as it was clearly showing you dont have enough reasons to support your claims and its why you prefer to fill your comment with such things rather than presenting reasons!

            Well, if you had read me comments you could have seen that I clearly said most of current Arab regimes are dictator regimes. Unfortunately the like past comments, instead of criticizing what I said, you keep assigning me what you wish I believed and then spending criticizing that!!!
            Well, not only I have no respects for such regimes, I said in my comments the direction of the blame is actually towards west in that case. If they are such regimes, which they are, why do you keep supporting them?
            If it wasnt the support of west and mainly US for such regimes they were gone long time ago. You keep supporting them, politically, financially and militarily and then try to project the blame on the people of those countries who are subjected to those regimes.
            In addition I should mention a point I left un answered through different comments here, and it was about Israel to be an apartheid regime. It was said that only Muslims use that term, however I dont think President Carter is much of a Muslim!
            Also you claimed I desire for Israel to vanish. As I said due to the fact you dont have enough counter claims against what I really say, you assign me a claim and then talk about that.
            By saying I desire for Israel to vanish, you are saying I desire that Israel with whatever related to it should be vanished. Thats totally wrong as people and so many other thing also would be included in that meaning.
            The only thing I desire to vanish about Israel is the parts of political system and structure and law that result in discrimination and apartheid.
            I also believe the best measure to see who is truthful towards what he says, is to ask what you think would be the solution. My experience in such debates says that when the question of the solution is asked, the true nature of what people think reveals!

          • Steven Raff

            Are you retarded? Seriously.. are you? Im not asking to be mean, I really just want to know so that Ill understand the reason for your demented logic. I gave you facts. I corrected you about everything you have said. You made an incorrect suggestion about Jews Israeli being European, I pointed out your lie and your hypocrisy by suggesting apartheid in Israel while ignoring apartheid across the Muslim world, and I revealed your lack of education (which you did not refute by the way) through your reliance upon revisionist type methods to discuss history. I suggest you get an education that extends beyond the internet and your bigotry and admit your desire to see Israel dissolved… and if you truly think Israel is Apartheid, I DARE YOU to tell me one Arab country that is less apartheid than Israel.. I DARE YOU! You won’t, because you can’t.

          • Ali

            Giving me facts? Well, I guess anyone who reads your comments would see that more than 70 percent of your comments are personal attacks. In the rest you claimed the followings:

            First you started by assigning me a statement I didnt make and tried to criticize that rather than what I said. While my comment is still available for everyone to see, you claimed I have said that all Jews have come from Europe and then answered I am wrong as what you claimed that I have said is only half true, which means like half of the Zionists only came from Europe!

            Also you claimed before 1948 there was only Jews in Palestine which I answered that has even basic logical flaw as if before 1948 there was only Jews in the land and as we know Israel hasnt allowed Arabs back, there shouldnt be any Muslim Arabs in Israel now either! Which you simply refused to answer.

            Also your own comment contradicts your previous comments! In you last comment you claimed ” Gaza and the West Bank were occupied in 48, not 67 so why wait until 67 to call themselves Palestinian? ” which clearly indicates there were Muslim Arabs before 48 there which also results in contradiction with your own starting claim that the difference between laws is due to citizenship vs. non-citizenship, as if we rely on your own last comment we realize Muslim Arabs have been there before 1948!

            The other claim you said was that there is no Palestine before as Arabs cant pronounce P, which only showed you distant you are from the topic and made a hint of laugh to the discussion!
            If these are the sort of facts you are talking about, well, I guess you got to ask someone what the “fact” means!
            You also keep saying there is a wide spread apartheid in Arab world, and asked me if I can name one country which has a better situation than Israel. First of all, if there was any apartheid in Arab countries, it didnt mean Israel is allowed to be apartheid as well, but it meant they also have to eliminate it. But regarding apartheid in Arab world it seems the same as the name of the Palestine used by Palestinians you didnt know, you dont know the meaning of apartheid as well! Seems you have confused dictatorship, thanks to western support, that has caused low human rights level with apartheid! Seems after you checked what the names of what you refer to are, you have to check on the meanings of terms as well!
            Although I was almost knew about what the result would be, I searched about existence of apartheid in Arab countries at the current moment. The interesting point is the only media that claim such things, are all affiliated to Israel and they all refer to apartheid against Palestinians! And they complain why Arab countries treat Palestinians whose home lands have been occupied by Zionists as refugees, and why they dont grant them citizenship.
            Well, not a surprise, why wouldnt they say that!

          • American Patriot

            If it wasn’t for neo-Communist Russian, Chinese Communist and Islamist Iranian support for the Baathist dictatorship of Bashar Assad in Syria, that country would be democratic. But you support Assad because he is a Communist/Islamist puppet and because he is anti-Western, just like you support the genocidal Islamist apartheid dictatorship in Sudan.

          • Ali

            I guess at this point its obvious your intention is not an educated debate as for the third or fourth time you are assigning me beliefs I never talked about, as you do about Sudan, so you escape answering what I mentioned and questioned.
            Regarding Syria I expressed my opinion clearly that if I have to chose to support a side at the current situation I chose bad instead worse. However you should explain how Syria would be a democratic country under Al Qaede ruling ?

          • American Patriot

            I never said that Syria would be a democratic country under Al Qaeda, you dunce. You are putting words in my mouth. I stated that the Assad regime would have collapsed a long time ago had it not been for neo-Communist Russia, Communist China and Islamist Iran supporting the Assad dictatorship in Syria. In fact, during the 1990s, Russia under Yeltsin was pro-Western and a US ally. But when Putin became president in 2000, Russia went back to its Cold War foreign policy. By the way, 2000 was also the year that Bashar Assad came to power in Syria, taking over for his father. You always condemn every pro-Western country while embracing every anti-Western country, just like you embrace the Fourth Reich of the Middle East, Islamist Iran. There is not much difference in attitudes between the Third Reich and the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. You simply support anything that is against the West.

          • American Patriot

            You forgot to mention the fact that in Arabic, “Palestine” is “Falastin”, a word which has no meaning in Arabic. “Falastin” has an “f” sound, not a “b” sound. Also, the story about the son of an Israeli general is a total lie. You should learn the story of Walid Shoebat, a former PLO militant turned Israel supporter. Islamism is the real problem in the Middle East, not Zionism.

          • Ali

            Although I think the discussion about alphabets in Arabic is really not the serious way for reasoning but as you mentioned I explain more.
            I never said Palestine has B sound, I said “Arabs mainly replace P with B in their written language as P and B are the same with different amount of dots”
            Thats for the words originated in foreign languages like Pizza. However they wouldnt do that for the word “Palestine” because Palestine is the name used by English speakers. But as the name of the land has original references in Arabic already they wouldnt use B for it.
            The same is true for so many countries. Example, Chinese dont call China, China!
            About the name in Arabic, its mainly pronounced Felestin, however Falastin is not wrong either.
            Although I never searched about its meaning, having meaning or not doesnt prove anything. Actually in literature it is totally an accepted rule that names only be used to refer to something or somebody. You can find similar examples in all languages.
            Regarding the book I mentioned, just by titling something as a ” lie” it doesnt turn to a lie. You got to say why and bring reasons. Miko Peled is a well known person in media and for almost all of what he claims he provide references. Just because you dont like what he says doesnt turn what he says to lies!
            Regarding Walid Shoebat, I dont know him. Even if I take your words as granted hat someone from PLO has changed sides to be a pro Zionism doesnt change anything. You may ask why the book “The son of the general” is then related, well because what he talks is about historical events. I didnt mention him because he is Jewish, but because of the documents he refer to.
            Lets say an American official comes and claims Islamic Republic of Iran is a democratic regime, does it make it a democratic? No, as the reality and all evidences say otherwise.

  • lilkane momo

    only a stupid would believe your biased anti islam ani arab info