Israeli PLO Sympathizer: “We Thought They Wanted a State…. But it Turns Out They Want to Destroy Israel.”

Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam. He is completing a book on the international challenges America faces in the 21st century.


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Shlomo Avineri is an expert on Marx and Engels. He was a fervent advocate of negotiating with the PLO and ended up heading Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Israeli conservatives were not at all happy with that.

When the Rabin government appointed Avineri to the post of Director-General of the Foreign Ministry in 1975, this was harshly criticized by the Likud opposition because of Avineri’s support for negotiations with the PLO (a Likud MK even compared him to “Lord Haw-Haw”, the British traitor who had broadcast from Berlin during World War II and was later executed).

Avineri’s awakening process was really slow. But now approaching 80, he’s sort of figure a few things out. Like that negotiating with the PLO was never going to work.

“We were incredibly stupid…. We thought they wanted a state, and a two-state solution, but it turns out that they want to destroy Israel, because they cannot/will not accept any form of Jewish national self-determination.”

The initiators of Oslo and the process’ supporters saw the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a conflict between two national movements, and believed – as I believed – that in direct negotiations between Israel and the PLO, a solution could be found to the territorial and strategic issues that are the source of the dispute between the two movements. It was not simple to persuade Israelis – and even the Labor party – that there was a national movement on the other side, and that although it had terrorist aspects, at heart it is entitled to fulfill its independent national self-definition, just like Zionism. The viewpoints of Golda Meir on the subject (“there is no Palestinian nation”) have not been forgotten, and the fact that the initiators of Oslo managed to overcome this tradition of denial, to which even the Labor party was a partner, was an accomplishment.

But the basis of this concept had a mistake. All of those who supported the Oslo process believed that we were talking about a dispute between two national movements, and that the other side felt the same way.

We were mistaken.

The Palestinian side does not believe that we are talking about a dispute between two national movements: It believes that we are talking about a dispute between one national movement – the Palestinian – and a colonial imperialistic entity that will eventually die off. Therefore, the parallel that appears in the Palestinian textbooks is Algeria. It isn’t the Israeli presence on the West Bank that is Algeria, but rather the entire Israel is Algeria, and the Israelis will disappear one way or the other, just like the French settlers were expelled from Algeria.

This is the reason why the Palestinian title for the two-state solution is different than the Israeli version. The Israeli stance talks about “two states for two peoples” but in the Palestinian version the phrase “for two peoples” does not appear. It only talks about “two states.” If someone thinks that this is just poor phrasing, he should ask his Palestinian counterpart to express an opinion about the “two states for two peoples” version and he will sooner or later get the answer that there is no Jewish people. This is also the reason why the Palestinians refused the version suggested by [John] Kerry “an agreement between two nation states.”

The truth is – and every Oslo supporter must recognize it – that in the Palestinian narrative, the Jews are not a people or a nation, but only a religious group, and therefore they are not entitled to a state. This is also the reason for the across-the-board and uncompromising opposition of the Palestinian side to recognizing the State of Israel as the State of the Jewish People. Even those who believe that Benjamin Netanyahu raised the topic only to complicate the negotiations, must contend with the fact that the Palestinian refusal to contend with the topic derives from the simple reason that the Palestinians believe that there is no Jewish people.

The source of the dispute is not borders, settlements or even Jerusalem. And of course, this is connected to the Palestinian refusal to waive the principle of the right of return. There are good reasons to criticize the Netanyahu government’s behavior during US Secretary of State John Kerry’s efforts to revive the negotiations, but to ignore these deep-seeded views constitutes a lack of intellectual honesty.

This is what I’ve been writing for a bit. So have most sensible conservatives. The trouble is that he’s done his damage already. It’s nice that some of his generation of leftists have woken up, but the damage is being done by a whole new generation that absorbed and acted on their ideas.

  • Aaron Freeman

    What’s it going to take, before libtards will finally forcibly remove their heads from rectal defilade?!?!

    • JackSpratt

      Well, considering what the objectives of the left are….never. That’s going to take a Civil War. Now if you are talking about the useful idiots, maybe there’s a chance.

      • Aaron Freeman

        I’m with you there!

        • JackSpratt

          It’ll be military patriots past and present leading the charge against the leftist-communists. The leftist-communists will be led by B.H. Odumbo. Of course Odumbo leads from the rear.

          • Aaron Freeman

            I hate to say it, but the Dear Leader would probably take it up the rear, as well as leading from the rear!

  • ObamaYoMoma

    I don’t have too much sympathy for him, as he never once mentioned the role Islam plays. Nonetheless, the road to perdition is paved in good intentions.

    • Softly Bob

      Some people are just too dumb to realize that Islam is behind ALL of this tragedy. Even when they’re bright enough to realize that they were stupid, they still don’t really get it.

    • knowshistory

      when stupidity and incompetence really is not an adequate explanation, perhaps it really is malice. stupidity and incompetence really does not explain slow mo’s years of steadfast betrayal of his kind. it is the road to perdition, but we disagree on the paving material.

  • JackSpratt

    Good gawd, good gawd, the muslims couldn’t have made their intentions more clear for more years. Marxist brains are very poorly developed.

    • Joe The Gentile

      Europe, and then America, is going to go through what Israel has gone through, but is lagging some years. Some of us (usually Conservatives) have figured out in Europe and America that the Jihad is on us as well as Israel, The truth is that the Jihadis couldn’t make their intentions more clear with us either, from their holy books, to their imams, to their violent behavior. There is genuinely something seriously wrong with Leftist brains. If the Elephant in the room doesn’t fit their theories, they genuinely can’t see the Elephant even as it trumpets in their ears and poops elephant-dung all over them.

      • JackSpratt

        Yes, I didn’t mean just making it clear to Israel, but they’ve made it clear to the whole world for many, many years. Mark Stein’s book, ‘America Alone’, has some good documentation in it.

      • James Lovelace

        “Europe, and then America, is going to go through what Israel has gone through, but is lagging some years.”

        Muslims are (officially) 1:20 of the UK’s population.

        332 muslims have been convicted of islam-related terrorism. 3 non-muslims have been convicted of islam-related terrorism.

        You would think from this that non-muslims were 1:100 of the UK population. The UK will reach a tipping point in the not too distant future, where this penchant for terrorism among muslims will no longer be deniable by the elite and the media

        • lyndaaquarius

          then what?

    • James Lovelace

      Muslims are exceptionally good at deceitful language. This is to be expected of people who have over 1000 years of doctrine where lying for the further subjugation of non-believers to islam is a moral act.

      I have been debating musilms for years (both online and in the flesh). Once one knows what the key points are which prove that islam is the world’s oldest form of fascism, then it is easy to steer a debate onto those key points. And that is when one must look out for the lies. I took to screenshotting these exposes. I got it down to the point where I could expose a muslim blatantly lying in just 5 or 6 tweets.

      Religious leaders in the west must know of this (which is why people like David Wood from Acts 17 Apologetics is so good at exposing muslims in debate). But those religious leaders have been selling their own peoples down the river for at least 50 years.

  • edlancey

    “We were incredibly stupid…. We thought they wanted a state, and a two-state solution, but it turns out that they want to destroy Israel, because they cannot/will not accept any form of Jewish national self-determination.”

    No Sh!t, Shlomo

    • Judahlevi

      I have always said that Jews are bad at politics.

      Case in point.

      One state solution – Israel. Everyone else to Jordan (or wherever).

  • cacslewisfan

    As you say, it’s nice he finally gets it. It’s too bad he lived like a philosophical and political cancer. Good luck finding a cure.

    • Aaron Freeman

      180 grains of lead is the best cure!

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        At longer ranges, 777-gr .50-cal cures …

  • emptorpreempted

    He dwells so long on what racial doctrine the “Palestinians” supposedly have concerning the Jews, as if it mattered. When you are confident about who you are and what your rights are, you are not greatly concerned about what the other guy may believe.

  • Habbgun

    Marx, Engels and the PLO really wanted peace. I wonder what his feelings on global warming are. I bet he’s a ticket holder for the Leftidiot Trifecta.

  • Contemptuous Maximus

    Suppose an 80 year old Obama will look back at the damage he did to America and feel the same way?

    • JackSpratt

      Nope.

    • tickletik

      Israelis are different. Even the worst Israeli has a quality of honesty I have never seen anywhere else.. An openness, a genuineness and sincerity. If you make a truly good point, they will acknowledge it and reflect on it.

      This isn’t the case with most other people.

      • Gee

        Except for Peres

        • David

          Yeah, he is definitely a good example of a man who has long outlived his usefulness.

  • Lanna

    So where have their brains been in a fog, that it took this long to figure it out? Anyone who denies Israel the right to exist and calls them apes and pigs, or teaches their 4 year olds on up to kill Jews is not a friend, ally, or for democracy and freedom of any kind.

  • rsilverm

    Stunning that the guy is only now figuring it out.

    • Aaron Freeman

      Sounds like this guy has been stuck on stupid for a long time!

      • Vadim_1

        I don’t believe the reason is stupidity. The reason is the lack of moral compass.

  • NAbeel Ahmed

    Jews will always try to harm and betray muslims …and unfortunately they are going great at it ….until now muslims have dead hearts ..but jews are knocking their hearts if still there is some feel for their muslims brothers and sisters … Muslims will be awake very soon !!!

    • JackSpratt

      Muslims have stone hearts.

      • kertitor

        And pea sized brain

    • Gee

      LOL!!! Another case of taqiyya. Muslims are without a doubt the worst enemies of other Muslims. Over 90% of all Muslims killed are done by other Muslims.

      Put two Jews in a room and get at least three opinions. Put two Muslims in a room and you get at least one murdered Muslim

    • Webb

      http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=23376

      Hamas destroys their own power grid in Gaza by hitting the line with a rocket. Nyuk nyuk.

      http://news.yahoo.com/bodies-found-north-baghdad-sunni-insurgents-turn-other-163117324.html

      Sunnis in Iraq are slaughtering each other now.
      Don’t hold your breath waiting for muslims to smarten up — it’s not possible. They are too anxious to claim their 72 virgin he-goats.

    • Larry Larkin

      Happy eternal nakba, dirt bag.

  • Jeff

    ” in the Palestinian narrative, the Jews are not a people or a nation, but only a religious group, and therefore they are not entitled to a state.”
    Actually, as good anti-Semites, they believe whatever it is that will advance their purposes.
    And the Palestinians are a people because, why?

    • JackSpratt

      Yeah, Palestinian is even a made up name, by the British.

      • Gee

        No – that was invented by the Romans after the Jews rebelled too many times. Arafat adopted it in 1964 because the the KGB thought it would work

        • JackSpratt

          Here’s one thing I found on the net:

          The History and Meaning of “Palestine” and “Palestinians”

          “There is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab nation . . . Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Eretz Yisrael with the express purpose of infuriating the Jews . . . . Why should we use the spiteful name meant to humiliate us?

          The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation’s supposed ancient name, though they couldn’t even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.” — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995

          The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation’s supposed ancient name, though they couldn’t even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.” — Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995

          Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

          Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that’s too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today . . . No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough. — from “Myths of the Middle East”, Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist.
          WorldNetDaily, 11 October 2000 — from “Myths of the Middle East”, Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist, WorldNetDaily, 11 October 2000
          From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries . . . . — Professor Bernard Lewis, Commentary Magazine, January 1975 — Professor Bernard Lewis, Commentary Magazine, January 1975

          • Moa

            Please also see:
            “The Invention of Palestine – How we Swallow The Lie”
            http://www.al-rassooli.com/palestine/

            Particularly slides 6-12.

            It is important to understand what your opponent says for the benefit of his own people.

            Major (ret) Stephen Coughlin (check him out on YouTube) does this analysis for the global jihad. The Pentagon are stuck on stupid and won’t listen. And then the Muslim Brotherhood flunkies in the US Government got him fired for telling the truth. The US Government is even dumber than this Israeli politician.

        • Sussex Girl

          Just to be snots, the Romans began calling the land Palestine after the Philistines, ancient foes of the Israelites.

  • Gee

    Shlomo Avineri attacked those of us that said the exact same thing for well over 20 years. We listened to what the Arabs were actually saying and he was not. They have said from day one that their goal is our genocide.

    Shlomo Avineri didn’t believe them – we did and were called all sorts of names for it, so were even jailed for opposing the leftists.

    Now we demand an investigation of people like Shlomo Avineri – you have a lot of Jewish blood on your hands.

    • Moa

      Correct. All Avineri needed to do was to open his ears to what the Palestinians were actually saying – which they are still saying today.

      All he had to do is read hadith Sahih Muslim 6985, or Sahih Bukhari, or read those sentiments transposed to the Hamas Charter.

      But no, like all Leftists they simply will not listen nor consider objective facts. The only thing that matters to them is their (supposed) good intentions and their ideology (which is delusional).

  • Isahiah62

    God might but I don’t forgive him – this rejection of ISRAEL by Muslims was KNOWN and widely disseminated in the 60s

  • Air4099

    May be you can fix stupid

  • JackSpratt

    That this joker was a follower and advocate of Marx and Engels goes a long way in explaining his myopia.

  • gerry

    Yes, you were incredibly stupid,to stupid to realise you were stupid. You are a waste of oxygen and space.

  • knowshistory

    cheer up, slow mo. there is no way you could have discerned the intentions of your scripturally obligated, mortal enemies. that would have required reading a few sentences of their holy scriptures, or a few passages of history, or listening to them. it is not your fault that you were deceived decade after decade by the same obvious lies. btw, slow, what do you think happened to the population of Constantinople? did they all wake up one morning and say, this Christianity is becoming a bore. I believe I will be a muslim now? or did the generous, morally superior muslim victors kill the men, rape the women, and enslave the children, just as they have every population they have been able to conquer, and as they surely intend to do to the Israelis? one other little thing. do you really think they will allow an old jewish geezer like you to convert to islam after you help them subdue your population? conversion to islam is only offered as an option when they need converts. they wont be needing an elderly traitor.

  • PatnTrucks

    Don’t you all just wish to say, “Duhhheee!?” I read the koran last year, took a week. What a waste of paper. It’s all there. Like read Mein Kampf for Adolf’s plan, read the koran for the muslim/palestine plan. Easy!

  • Uncle Jay

    “We Thought They Wanted a State…. But it Turns Out They Want to Destroy Israel.” Well…duh!

  • DilloTank

    This guy still doesn’t have it right. Though he is getting closer to the truth. He writes:

    “The Palestinian side does not believe that we are talking about a dispute between two national movements: It believes that we are talking about a dispute between one national movement – the Palestinian – and a colonial imperialistic entity that will eventually die off.

    The truth is that the ‘Palestinians’ have no intention of keeping any agreement with Israel. They think the West is stupid to negotiate with them because their stated intention is to destroy Israel. And they are correct.

  • smb

    Sometimes when a person has a hope, like making peace with the PLO, it sounds good ideally. But when you notice over and over that Hamas and Islamic Jihad don’t have the same goal, but just want to hurt people, it’s hard to swallow. But we need to face reality so we can find a real solution. If Hamas doesn’t want peace, then they need to be taken out, for everyone’s sake. – Israel is strong when united. Things might be very difficult, but if we do what we need to do, then with the help of G-d , there will be peace

  • TerrorIsEvil

    We do not have time for pompous, self-righteous leftists to get caught up with reality. Generation after generation of those on the left have been WRONG about this and many other issues. It is time for apologies/compunction and for academics to get with it or to stay out of the important business of statecraft.

  • my truth

    I’m 50 and I’ve figured that out sooner then you shlomo
    . every good college student is a leftist and then you…..grow up.

  • theBuckWheat

    Nothing is true until a liberal wakes up to it, that is if doesn’t kill him and the rest of us first.

  • http://whenfallsthecoliseum.com/author/kwatson/ megapotamus

    Oh Shlomo! And what was he saying about those who held his current views when he held his now obsolete views? Did he call us racists? Crazy? Paranoid? This moron is emblematic and rather than articulate his stupidity he should apologize and shut his hole in shame.