Salon’s Professor Crunk Claims White-on-Black Murder Wave in Florida

large_ghost

Salon Magazine, once vaguely relevant now a student paper for aging academics obsessed with politically correct nostrums, becomes more of a joke every week. As you might expect of a student paper, it has Professor Crunk, aka Brittney Cooper, who calls herself a “Next Generation Black Intellectual”.

Here is what the “Next Generation Black Intellectual” has to say.

Black being is the problem. Not black thuggery. Black boys officially exist in a state of social death, because the law continues to tell us that their lives, when taken by white men, are legally indefensible. They have been rendered by the law dead men walking. It’s no wonder then that in so many places they act like it.  White thuggery, meanwhile, marches on, mowing down black folks at every turn, white sheets, sight unseen.

Many white folks believe that black criminality has produced white fear and that white fear in the presence of black masculinity is therefore always justified. But the opposite is true. White anxiety and fear and racism have produced the myth of pervasive black criminality.

Intraracial black violence is a problem, but white racism has produced the concentrated structures of poverty and lack of access to education that give rise to violent behaviors.

So black violence was produced by white racism. And white people being afraid of black violence is racist since that just causes black violence which white people shouldn’t be afraid of… or there will be more violence.

Also poverty and not enough free education and affirmative action scholarships and free stuff.

So is there a wave of white people murdering black people? The national inter-racial crime stats suggest otherwise.

Over the past 30 years, black-on-white murders rose from 6 percent of all homicides to 8 percent, according to a study of 550,000 homicide reports assembled by Scripps Howard News Service from FBI and local police reports. White-on-black killings rose from 3 to 4 percent.

Meanwhile in Florida, specifically, in 2012, 362 black people and 344 white people were arrested on murder charges. Now we all know that statistics are racist, all justice systems are biased and etc, but those same stats also show 1,729 white people arrested for sexual assault and 968 black people, so that’s a pretty specific bias.

(Considering that Florida is only 17% African-American, that 968 number is still really high). So it’s still entirely reasonable for white people to be afraid of a racist crime wave, not the other way around. Sorry Dr. Crunk.

Even if there were no black male criminals, to riff on professor Hortense Spillers’ work, they would have to be invented.

“I’m not saying training camps don’t exist, but if they didn’t, you’d invent them.” Barry, Four Lions.

The question is how should black people respond? Having seen a lot of violence in my childhood, I’m a deep believer in and practitioner of nonviolence. But in the face of unreasonable violence toward our children, why do black people owe the nation the safety of our reasonable, rational, nonviolent responses?

Wait… so up till now it’s been rational non-violent responses. But violence begets violence. So do threats of violence. You don’t get to threaten violence and complain that fear of your violence is racist.

You can pick one or the other, but not both.

  • motheroftheBeave

    I hope that she wrote this insane tripe from a padded cell because that is where she belongs. Is it a wonder that black society in America is in the crapper?

  • alericKong

    “why do black people owe the nation the safety of our reasonable, rational, nonviolent responses?”

    Barack Obama’s presidency discredits all three aspects of this claim.

  • Norman Hatfield

    Well, we all hope she’s right that blacks will be intellectuals in a generation or so.

    • uptownsteve

      as if most whites are intellectuals. guffaw,

      • Drakken

        Derka derka derka dumbazz, us whites brought you everything you enjoy, and you whine like a little bitch, too funny.

  • Veracious_one

    she must be a spokesperson for the New Black Panther Party or maybe for Louis Farrakhan…..

  • Veracious_one

    White anxiety and fear and racism have produced the myth of pervasive black criminality.
    well no dearie it’s the rising high number of violent crimes actually being committed by lawless black thugs that cause the fear and anxiety…maybe you should rush in to stop the young black gangbangers from dealing in drugs and criminal activities and convince them to stay in school and have only one girlfriend….and convince them to regularly go to church….tell them that cocaine and weed are not health foods…quit blaming the victims…

    • uptownsteve

      I’ll ask AGAIN. Just what is this “rising high number” of violent crimes by black thugs? Do you even know? Ms. Cooper is exactly right. The right is promoting this “black male thug” meme in order to rationalize their hatred and fear of black men, who are overwhelmingly law abiding. They ignore the fact that violent crime is primarily “intra-racial”. You are far more likely to be harmed by someone of your own race than by someone of another race.

      • laura r

        those inner city kids look pretty savage to me. im crossing the street. arrest me for thinking.

        • uptownsteve

          racist.

          • Drakken

            There it is! The race card! You did not disappoint kaffir, good job, keep up the great work.

          • hiernonymous

            “The race card! You did not disappoint kaffir

            Look at that. You justified his use of the race card exactly five words later. Remarkable.

          • Drakken

            When a black throws out that race card like so much confetti, your damn right I will throw it right back in their faces. Self-righteous, self-hating, self loathing, steeped in Marxist thinking is really the problem in todays world, yet folks like you can’t bend over fast enough to try to appease.

          • hiernonymous

            So you called him a kaffir.

            Way to show him how wrong he is about you!

          • uptownsteve

            Drakken is too deluded and too infested with hate to reason with.

          • Drakken

            Sorry kaffir, I am way to busy to give you people a second thought much less hate you, but if your looking for sympathy, I know where you can find it, it is in the dictionary, between the words sh*t and syphilis.

          • uptownsteve

            You got the wrong black man here Jethro. I need your sympathy like I need a case of the crabs. What is obvious is your absolute obsessive fear and resentment of blacks. Apparently the result of some childhood trauma. Like your ideological soulmate Norman Podhoretz, who continuously got his butt kicked by blacks growing up in Brooklyn. He now gets his jollies race baiting in print. You talk tough at the keyboard. Hope it’s good for you. It’s all you CAN do.

          • Drakken

            Well buckwheat, I certainly don’t fear you, and respect isn’t a given where your concerned. I never grew up with blacks, but as a police officer, I worked in the darkest part of a major city, so I am a realist. Thank God I am now in the private sector instead of the sh*thole where I was assigned to. I would much rather be in war zones overseas than any US inner city.

          • Derelictus

            So blacks don’t commit a wildly disproportionate amount of violent crime in this country? If only that were true…

          • uptownsteve

            No they don’t. It’s a rightwing lie. Prove your assertion with evidence.

          • Drakken

            Sorry ole chum, but some people just cannot be reasoned with as you like to think, they must be shown the error of their ways. You do play a nice game of cricket, I play hockey.

          • truebearing

            So it’s racist to not want to get mugged, beaten, raped, shot, and killed?

            Why don’t you go to Chicago, tough guy? Walk around downtown, or head over to the South Side. You’d be crapping your pants, and probably dead before morning. Blacks are killing blacks, too.

          • uptownsteve

            I grew up in the West Bronx in NYC. I don’t live my life in fear and go anywhere I want. I leave the pants crapping to you racist righties.

    • lyndaaquarius

      too many fatherless black young men. Welfare state decimated black families. State replacing fathers.Lots of angry young,black men being raised by lost and angry black women. What an awful mess.

  • Habbgun

    All the white sheets white people keep hidden in their bedrooms underneath the bedspread where they won’t be seen. I blame our racial problems on Bed, Bath and Beyond.

    • laura r

      now the white sheet has been replaced w/the blk hoodie. everythng that comes around goes around. blks have gone over the limit.

  • uptownsteve

    Spoiling for a race war eh Greenfield? There’s no doubt in my mind that with all your mouth and demagoguery, if some static does start, you’ll be in the rear with the gear.

    • Drakken

      That would be libtarded white boys like you who would be pushing that narrative dumbazz, hmmm whites 77% of the population, blacks 12-13 %, you do the math, or can’t we trouble you with numbers?

      • uptownsteve

        What you fail to accept is that all whites are not going to side with you. How do you think Obama got elected, dummy? You rightwing racists are fringe fools on the way out.

        • Drakken

          Those useful idiots on the left that you depend upon are nothing but a statistic dumbazz. Once your hero and savior Obummer pushes the economy over the cliff, just who do you think is going to feed you?

          • uptownsteve

            The same place you get fed. And it looks like Hillary in 2016. LMAO!!!!!!

        • Rob Hobart

          Says the fringe fool. Projecting as always.

          • uptownsteve

            So when’s the race war gonna start Rob, and more importantly, where will you be?

          • laura r

            where will YOU be?

          • uptownsteve

            I’m not the one calling for a race war. Try to keep up.

          • laura r

            you started the discussion. go back to salon.

          • Drakken

            By calling everyone that doesn’t buy your narrative a racist, sure your not inciting the crackers dumbazz.

          • tagalog

            Any race war in the United States between black people and white people will be initiated by black people, not white people.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            POTUS and his comrades are inciting the race war. We’re just discussing it.

        • laura r

          do the math. 13% of the population. why is most of the crime from that small % age. waiting for the answer.

          • uptownsteve

            Another racist lie. For instance, whites are 5 times as likely to use or deal drugs than blacks yet blacks are jailed at 3 times the rates of whites.

          • laura r

            i dont mean drug use, or arrest for that. i mean violent crimes. do the math. answer the question.

          • uptownsteve

            Prove your assertion.

          • laura r

            prove yours. even the blk leaders jesse & al say that. remember? blks commit violent crimes beacuse of poverty & white racism & slavery. you all know the deal.

          • tagalog

            Hmm…what does that say about the relative ability of whites and blacks to avoid trouble with the law?

          • uptownsteve

            Yawn. I’ll wait patiently for your proof.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            He stipulated to your claim and offered an alternative view of your data analysis.

            You don’t really understand how research analysis works. You’re easy to manipulate with headline bias.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Citation please.

            Hurry, because I’m holding my breath.

          • uptownsteve
          • objectivefactsmatter

            “Nearly 20 percent of whites have used cocaine, compared with 10 percent of blacks and Latinos, according to a 2011 survey from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration — the most recent data available.”

            According to a survey with a series of targeted questions.

            People are not arrested for (reporting that they are) trying things. People are arrested when they get caught breaking our laws.

            It’s another “disparate outcomes” complaint that does nothing to understand why, unless that “explanation” can find a class victim.

            Leftist research. It’s typically Marxist, looking only for evidence of “class struggles.”

          • Drakken

            The whitey and Hispanic are less prone to violence using controlled substances, unlike you blacks who seem to go off at the slightest little thing. It is because of your liberal use of violence that you go to jail in disaportionate numbers. Do I need to go a little more slowly for you to catch up?

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Not even really a decent snack.

          • Drakken

            Funny thing is kaffir, you blacks who in disaportionate numbers, commit most of the violent crimes, hence buckwheat, you go to jail more often than a cracker because of your violent propensities.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          It’s not really about race you idiot.

    • Rob Hobart

      Shut it, anti-Semitic crank.

  • tagalog

    So white anxiety, fear, and racism create what I gather is the delusion of black crime. I suppose crime in general, since the criminal law is pretty non-racist. All a myth.

    I won’t worry about flash mobs, knockout punchers, and that kind of thing any more.

    I’m glad to be informed that it’s just a delusion. That clarifies things. I guess I can now carry a firearm and be quite ready to fire a metaphorical bullet at the next person who attempts to commit a crime of violence against me. All a myth, just move on please, nothing to see here.

  • truebearing

    “Black boys officially exist in a state of social death, because the law continues to tell us that their lives, when taken by white men, are legally indefensible. ”

    Huh? This is the thinking of the “next generation black intellectual?” It sounds incoherent enough to have been plagiarized from an Al Sharpton word salad.

  • Drakken

    Yo Bobby, you wanna be black and yell racist to shut debate down? I got news for you shortbus, the race card doesn’t work anymore, no matter how many times you shout it. So white boy, go to Africa where they will show you due deference, I’ll grab a bourbon and watch the show.

  • laura r

    what if someone lives in major city, doesnt ever meet toothless goobars? what if its mostly rich whites, 3rd worlders & blks?

  • uptownsteve

    As usual you have it backwards. Unless you are a Native American or your folks came over on the Mayflower, my people were here before yours. WE BUILT THIS COUNTRY. Set the table for you European immigrants. All you did was sit down and eat. So if you can’t debate the topic, shut the he!! up and finish pumping up the tires on your house.

  • Drakken

    We came, we saw and we conquered dumbazz, and here you whine like a little bitch about it, put your man pants on and get over it. You didn’t build jack shortbus, whitey did, otherwise if you built anything it would look like the darkest Africa. So good luck trying to push that narrative buckwheat.

  • laura r

    well now your here, its better than africa. maybe it was a gift from god. you personally didn’t suffer, so you really had the luck.

  • tagalog

    Ah, the black white man.

  • Sussex Girl

    Actually, your people weren’t here first.

    The first slaves sold in America were white. 1618. Did you know that? Of the 10 million or so Africans sold as slaves in the New World, over 4 million were sold in Brazil alone, most of the rest were sold in the West Indies. Only 450,000 or so were sold in America (according to Henry Louis Gates, Jr.) Did you know that? Most of the white slaves were men, women, and children from Ireland or orphans taken from the streets of London. The exact number of white slaves sold is difficult to determine since the English kept the information suppressed. In the1690s, 100,000 Irish boys and girls between the ages of 14 and 16 were sold in the West Indies, but the exact number sold in the US isn’t known. Some place the number between 1 and 2 million. That’s 1 to 2 million white slaves, two to four times the number of black slaves sold. Did you know that?

    What is known is that the first slave owner in America, Anthony Johnson, was a black man with an indentured servant; he went to court to be able to keep him permanently. What is known is that the largest slave owner in South Carolina in 1860, just before the Civil War, was a black man, William Ellison, who was a freed slave himself. What is known is that 28% of slave owners in New Orleans were black, according to the 1860 census. What is known is that free black slave owners of Louisiana fought for the Confederacy, fighting against abolitionism.

    What is known is that reparations have already been paid, were paid 150 years ago in the blood of northern white boys that soaked into the soil of fields all across the South.

    It’s enough already. No one in this country owes anyone else anything. It’s time for everyone to put their big boy and girl panties on and get over themselves.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    “WE BUILT THIS COUNTRY. Set the table for you European immigrants. All you did was sit down and eat.”

    You are a deluded little communist dupe.

  • truebearing

    Then why are you blaming Europeans for bringing Africans here as slaves? Are you saying blacks came here, built everything for us Europeans, then let themselves be enslaved on cotton plantations? Even by black revisionist history standards, that is unbelievably stupid.

  • 1stworlder

    You didn’t build anything. Selling NYC for some beads was a good deal because the area was not large enough to support a tribe by foraging where you need square miles per person instead of 1/4 acre for whitey to farm. Also the beads where beyond your capacity to create.

  • uptownsteve

    Puh-leeze. You didn’t conquer jack. During this country’s formative years your ancestors were holed up in some European cave trying to figure out how to grow a potato when not nailing the nearest sheep.

  • uptownsteve

    What city resembles that?

  • uptownsteve

    And you’re better here than in Europe, thus your ancestors rush to get over here and escape the crapholes they came from. What’s your point?

  • Drakken

    Liberal, self hating, self loathing and stupidity on full display. Yeah us Europeans are so ignorant and still in the dark ages huh buckwheat, that Africa is the shinning light of progress and enlightenment.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    Meanwhile “black” slaves and “Native Americans” built institutions for higher education and figured out how to build a powerful and advanced civilization where none had existed before.

  • laura r

    and they were doing wonderful things in africa. just like now.

  • laura r

    so this is a white college kid who wants to be a blk thug? what ever…..

  • uptownsteve

    I thought you were an American.

  • uptownsteve

    Why do you think I’m white? You morons really believe all blacks speak ebonics?

  • Habbgun

    Drakken is European so go back to being a good Democrat and bow down before anything and anyone European. If a European says all Americans are idiots including or especially the African Americans a good Democrat says thank you may I have another.

  • uptownsteve

    Wha?

  • tagalog

    When it suits their purposes.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    You’re a communist. Some people seem to think that all communists, or at least the majority of communists are white.

    Is that yet another form of oppression that you suffer from?

    Poor poor you!

  • laura r

    somehow whites do black better.

  • truebearing

    Not at all. I have a black friend who is a molecular biologist who has recently gone off to medical school. He doesn’t believe all of the nonsense you do, however, but then he is a lot smarter.

  • uptownsteve

    What a smokin pile.

  • truebearing

    Well done. He won’t listen, though. Hate leaves no room for truth.

  • hiernonymous

    Selective presentation of facts can lead to misleading conclusions.

    Yes, there was a period during which the English, in attempting to crush Irish support for the Stuarts and, later, resistance to English suzerainty, took many Irish prisoners. Many were sold off into the Caribbean and other parts of the New World.

    But there is no comparison between what was done to the Irish and the African chattel slave trade. There was never a point where an Irishman was assumed to be property unless he could prove otherwise. Nor did that slavery survive in the American colonies, whereas African slavery took root and became integral to our society.

    Your “4 or 5 times” figure on the number of slaves sold is sleight of hand. In 1790, there were nearly 700,000 black slaves in the United States out of a total population of less than 4 million. By 1860, there were about 4 million black slaves. How many white slaves were there in the U.S. in 1790? In 1860?

    The fact that there were black slaveowners is unsurprising, nor is it a factor of mitigation or defense. When Africans were brought to the United States, they were confronted with the society as it existed; that some of them participated as owners does not excuse the nature of that system. You’ll find that there were Frenchmen and Russians who collaborated with the Nazis in WWII; that doesn’t make Nazism a Russian phenomenon, or imply that “hey, everyone did it.”

    “What is known is that reparations have already been paid, were paid 150
    years ago in the blood of northern white boys that soaked into the soil
    of fields all across the South.”

    That’s not “known,” that’s your spin. Big difference. A more reasoned point of view might be that “it’s enough already” when someone arriving in the United States would be unable to tell that blacks were once the victims of sustained oppression. Nor is slavery all we have to answer for; your Union lads may have died to help end slavery, but they didn’t atone for Jim Crow, did they? For Plessy v Ferguson? Your formulation is self-serving and simplistic.

    How about we all pull up our big boy and girl panties and really fix our society, instead of weaseling around on the internet explaining why “it’s not my problem.”

  • uptownsteve

    This garbage is straight from the Council of Conservative Citizens website. White supremacist trash. I challenge you to produce any reputable historian who endorses this.

  • uptownsteve

    You are a pathetic liar. William Ellison was a South Carolina mulatto who was born a slave and was later allowed to buy his freedom. He then bought several of his relatives and held them nominally as slaves since most blacks in nineteenth century South Carolina could not buy their freedom. At the most Ellison owned 60 slaves.

  • Drakken

    Obviously simple English is completely beyond you or your intelligence. Maybe if Habbgun goes r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-e-l-y you might be able to u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d what he is saying to you.

  • laura r

    why dont you study some history. anyway, you thrive on being a downtrodden victim. enjoy. want me to step on you? just ask.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    Repeat your religious mantras and then you’ll feel better.

  • truebearing

    You won’t even check out what SussexGirl wrote because you are afraid she’s right. That would de-legitimize your hate and destroy your racist agenda. You don’t care about truth or justice. You want revenge, but even more, you want power. You are a sick boy.

  • objectivefactsmatter

    The point is that you are the one claiming to be a victim of history and present day “oppression.”

  • laura r

    so? im not complaining. YOU are.

  • Drakken

    Personally, I think our resident bitcher and whiner has a kick me I’m stupid, sign painted on his back myself.

  • uptownsteve

    C’mon and try it sweetie.

  • Drakken

    Shhhh , don’t say anything, the irony is so bloody rich you could cut it with a knife. The next thing you know is, he will throw out the race card in a little temper tantrum of rage.

  • laura r

    it may be a black kid who went to college w/the CRT stuff. you know, the kids today dont question anything. they just go along w/the sheep.

  • truebearing

    Then curiously, handed it over to white people and volunteered to be cotton plantation slaves or live on reservations.

    Let me be clear. Slavery was an evil, reprehensible thing. The way Indians were treated, especially during the Manifest Destiny period, was nothing short of heinous. That being said, upsidedownsteve’s absurd lies are bizarre and laughable. I’m guessing he learned them in “African American Studies” and classes on Marxism.

  • uptownsteve

    good post.

  • Drakken

    Please enlighten us as too how much more money is it going to take to fix the problem? I mean we have spent trillions in anti-poverty programs and educational bottomless pits of the inner city school system, so again, how much is it going to take and how much more guilt can you pile upon us privileged whites before everything is all better and wonderful?

  • kikorikid

    Please explain how we, or anybody,
    could or would “atone” for plessy v. Fergussen?

  • truebearing

    Just because you stated she is wrong doesn’t make it so. You aren’t the arbiter of all truth, or even truth as it relates to slavery.

    No one was arguing that slavery was just. The argument was in response to upyoursteve’s ridiculous historical claims about blacks being here first and building everything before Europeans got here. Sussexgirl was merely pointing out that there were white slaves and black slave owners, both of which are true. You twisted the thread to suit your ideological agenda.

    Your nonsense about the Nazis is completely irrelevant and a confused analogy.

    No one was justifying slavery. Pointing out that whites were also slaves and blacks were slave holders destroys the falsehood that slavery was strictly whites oppressing blacks. You are trying to maintain your Manichean world view, especially as regards slavery, because you want all of the responsibility for slavery on whites. You assiduously avoid the fact that blacks captured and sold other blacks to the slave traders. You also ignore the well documented fact that Arab Muslims sold and owned millions more slaves, and for far longer, than Europeans did. As a matter of fact, the Muslims were kidnapping and enslaving whites from the US and Europe until Jefferson and Madison took military action and put an end to it. The Muslims are still involved in slavery, and so are both African and American blacks.

    Your assertion that reparations will be fully paid when newcomers to the US can’t tell blacks were once slaves is nothing short of insane. It assumes for one thing, that the immigrants didn’t already posess some knowledge of American history, but more importantly, assumes that all behaviors are not only dertermined by past historical events, but that it is possible to actually divine which behaviors are caused by what event. As I said. That is one of the most illogical, ridiculous arguments i have had the displeasure to have read. Are you related to Icke?

    You follow that absurdity with the idea that the descendants of even those who fought to free the slaves must atone for Jim Crow. What idiotic principle of justice are you basing this absurdity on? The voices in your head? people are guilty for crimes of their racial ancestors? How far back should we prosecute this nonsensical rule?

    If every generation must atone for the past generations, we will all be atoning forever, including you. To suggest that this atonement goes on in perpituity until some arbitrary satisfaction is determined by some self-appointed expert is perhaps the most absurd of all of your “solutions,” for more reasons than I care to waste time explaining. You seem to be increasingly incapable of rational thought..

  • uptownsteve

    They certainly had wonderful things in Africa. That’s why the Europeans rushed over there and plundered the land and enslaved the people. The Africans never asked for the company of the Europeans.

  • uptownsteve

    Your racism is making you hysterical. First off, I didn’t “blame” anyone. That is a stock phrase of the braindead right toward blacks who don’t grin in their faces. The fact remains that for the first 200 years, this was an agrarian nation dependent on cash crops like rice, cotton and tobacco to present to the world market. And it was the black man’s free labor which harvested those crops and provided this nation’s foundation of wealth.

  • hiernonymous

    Thanks. Hope it gets her thinking, but that’s generally not how these things work. And I’m not at my most diplomatic these days, to be fair.

  • Drakken

    Really? Wonderful things you say? Please kaffir enlighten us on all those wonderful things Africa had before us mean Europeans come along.

  • hiernonymous

    Interesting response. You look at the issue as one that consists solely of “how much money do we have to spend to make the problem go away?” Maybe a better question is “what do we need to do differently?”

    Do you have kids? How much money did it cost you to raise them into decent human beings? If you’d doubled your spending, would they have been twice as good?

  • uptownsteve

    I told you before Jethro, most black Americans are not poor and in the ghetto. I believe the “problem” hieronymous is alluding to is the sick disease of racism that festers throughout your very soul.

  • uptownsteve

    Are you really this dumb? You really don’t know that Europeans invaded the African continent and exploited it’s rich resources of oil, diamonds, gold, iron, cobalt, uranium, copper, bauxite, silver, petroleum and cocoa beans?????

  • Drakken

    As I have told you many times before, and since your a tad thick, I’ll repeat it for your benefit. Where I am from it would be Hans, Ole, Toivo, Eino and Sven. It is an area where the work ethic is second to none, where we don’t make excuses for failures but fix them. The reason why you see everything in racial terms and continue to throw the race card at anyone who doesn’t buy the narrative that your peoples problems are whiteys fault and whitey owes you people equal outcomes without any effort to do so, is wearing extremely thin. But then again, all us crackers are the same right.

  • Drakken

    Ah yes, Marxist theory, sorry but that has been tried and all it ever leads to, is a stack of dead bodies and people think they can do Marxism right, if they just do it their way, the result is the same. Sorry but problems are not solved by throwing other peoples money at them, it just makes it worse. As for my kids, they were raised with the simple concept that everything you get is earned, not given.

  • John

    “If you’d doubled your spending, would they have been twice as good?”

    Interesting question. You can argue it different ways. I can see where being stingy has created issues. Such as canceling the extra car insurance on kids that were away at college or only having one computer in the house. Was double the money necessary? I don’t know. But more money would have been better.

    Why don’t you argue from the stand point of the QDR? Sure many people will not know what it is. It needs to brought into the public consciousness. We might have better discussions.

    I brought up the QDR in one blog forum only to have it ignore. After DADT fell, all the sudden some people knew what it was and acted like they knew what it was the whole time. Now might be the time to discuss the assumption in the QDR as well people learning more about military tech and acquisition (rules).

  • truebearing

    “If you’d doubled your spending, would they have been twice as good?”

    A rhetorical question that implies that doubling the spending would improve the child raising results. Your assumption falls apart in the real world. What if parents spend a lot of money on their kids, but doesn’t spend time teaching them anything? What if those parents are extremely liberal and let their children smoke drugs, drink alcohol, skip school, join gangs?
    What if the parents spoil the kids with too much money, but don’t make them take on responsibility or learn to work? Money spent is a poor indicator of outcome in child rearing. Furthermore, if the parents have money, they likely have the kinds of traits and upbringing that will make them better parents and able to earn more money. Again, the money they have is the result of good parenting, not the cause.

    Likewise, poor parents have raised some of America’s finest people. Abraham Lincoln comes to mind.

    You seem to labor under the fallacy that money solves all problems. Money follows disciplined, virtuous living.

    The last thing I will add that refutes your theory is that families with great wealth usually lose it by the third generation. Having money with endless idle time but no endeavor spoils children.

  • Drakken

    Obviously you are, since the blacks didn’t know what these minerals were for in the first place, as a European, your welcome. Otherwise you would still running around with spears living in mud huts, with no written language and didn’t know what the wheel was for.

  • John

    What is the QDR?

  • hiernonymous

    “As for my kids, they were raised with the simple concept that everything you get is earned, not given.”

    Okay, how much money does it take to instill that value? Who did you pay to teach it to them?

    “Sorry but problems are not solved by throwing other peoples money at them, it just makes it worse.”

    That’s exactly my point. If you understand that, then why do you whine about having spent X amount of dollars and expecting the problem to have been solved? What makes you think that the solution is simply spending money?

  • uptownsteve

    Since you claim to be in Scandinavia somewhere, can you please explain why you are so consumed with hatred for blacks? Seems to me you would rarely see us where you are.

  • uptownsteve

    You poor pathetic ignorant fool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELFjbo8tXfM

  • hiernonymous

    What aspect of the QDR are you trying to highlight? Are you just referencing the fact that, rather than just throwing money at defense, we now conduct a periodic review to make sure that we have a coherent strategy and that our resourcing is linked to that strategy? Or is there a more specific aspect of the procedure, or a more specific policy, that you had in mind?

    That seems a pretty fair point to bring up. If I understand where you’re going with this, you don’t just defend the country by appropriating lots of money and spending it on “defense.” You defend it by evaluating the threat, figuring out what is possible and necessary to mitigate that threat, identifying the resources and activities that need to take place, and only then figuring out how much money it would take to do it – and deciding if it’s worth the cost.

  • uptownsteve

    Same way we atoned for the Holocaust.

  • hiernonymous

    I don’t know how we could; nor am I suggesting that ‘atonement’ is the objective. The objective is to reverse the effects of Plessy v Ferguson.

    I sort of stumbled into this conversation without having tried to come up with the solution; I sense that it has to do with making a major overhaul in our educational system, but I don’t have a plan to submit for evaluation, I’m afraid.

  • truebearing

    He didn’t say he lives in Scandanavia.

  • kikorikid

    “The effects”? The effects became moot
    with Brown, I believe.
    Steveroony wants to atone like for the
    holocaust. There is no equivalency in his
    argument and the statement was stupid.

  • truebearing

    All of your “solutions” require money. Name one that doesn’t.

  • Drakken

    What makes you think that the solution is simply spending money? You do. Inner city schools in Mpls/St. Paul spend 3-4 times the amount per pupil than the surrounding white suburbs and rural areas, yet the graduate rate is on average almost 55%. My kids were home schooled and then sent to private boarding schools in Europe.

  • Drakken

    Want to get close to fixing the problem start holding students accountable and bring back discipline back into the classroom, for a start, until then, trying to educate the inner city is a pipe dream. Ever been to an inner city classroom? The inmates are running the asylum and the teachers are helpless to stop it, or if they try to, they are called racist.

  • hiernonymous

    Of course they involve spending money. The point is that spending money alone is insufficient – it must be spent in support of a coherent, well-considered objective.

  • hiernonymous

    “If you’d doubled your spending, would they have been twice as good?”

    A rhetorical question that implies that doubling the spending would
    improve the child raising results. Your assumption falls apart in the
    real world.

    Is it even possible that you’re this dim? Are you pulling my leg?

    On the one hand, I suppose I should be happy that you understand the point I was trying to make and agree with it. On the other, it’s discouraging that you didn’t understand that I was trying to make it.

    The question was sarcastic. It was intended to highlight how utterly inane it is to try to measure solutions to problems by how much money has been spent on it. Perhaps if you had noted that I offered my comment in response to a post that read, in part:

    I mean we have spent trillions in anti-poverty programs and educational bottomless pits of the inner city school system, so again, how much is it going to take and how much more guilt can you pile upon us privileged
    whites before everything is all better and wonderful?

    My whole point here is that it’s absurd to say “we spent X dollars, so the problem should be solved.”

    What matters isn’t how much is spent, but that it’s spent in the service of a coherent, workable solution.

  • Drakken

    The Egyptians weren’t African much less anyone else along the Med, you dumbazz, they were a Med mix and Mesopotamian. That is why the Egyptians had such a successful empire for a thousand years and there was nothing like it in sub-Sahara Africa. Just wtf are they teaching you idiots in school today? By the way, do you know why the Nubians(black) were made slaves? And why the Nubians could not defeat the more advanced Egyptians?

  • hiernonymous

    Yep. I was recruited by one the country’s largest school systems. I did some student teaching at one of their roughest schools. As a former military guy, they thought I had the right background and touch to deal with those kids.

    I passed on it. There was a time when that sort of challenge would have appealed to me, but I don’t have the energy to enter that kind of fight with my hands tied. And I agree with you that as currently structured, “inmates running the asylum” pretty well describes our urban schools.

    I don’t think that’s the kids’ fault. I don’t think it’s the teachers’ fault. But it’s not going to get better by tut-tutting about parenting, etc. If it’s going to get fixed, it’s going to happen because we collectively decide to fix it.

  • hiernonymous

    I don’t know how much plainer I can make it. I don’t think simply spending money is effective. The money has to be spent to good purpose. That’s the point I’m trying to drive home.

  • Drakken

    Well as much as I hate to say it, put he military in charge, then things will change, until then we keep throwing good money after bad.

  • truebearing

    Ah, the collective will fix it. All great solutions spring forth from the collective effort of collectivists. Just look at history. Okay, don’t look at history, but I’m sure it will work if we just have a large enough collective, with lots of committees, and maybe a lounge.

    You keep thinking that problems are solved externally. No wonder you’re a statist. Perhaps you found the old truism on motivation, “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” too complicated.

  • truebearing

    Can money buy the motivation needed by those being helped? It hasn’t so far and we’re trillions into this failed theory.

  • Derelictus

    Modern industrial America owes nothing to black slavery, if anything, it’s blacks who owe white taxpayers for trillions of dollars of direct wealth payments to their communities over the past 60 years, which far surpasses any ‘free labor’ they provided.

  • hiernonymous

    If your assessment is correct: that we’ve spent trillions operating on a particular theory, and it hasn’t produced results – then that suggests it’s a bad approach, don’t you think?

  • truebearing

    I didn’t get the sarcasm. Maybe you’re just a poor communicator.
    When you go back and read Drakken’s question to you about how much we should spend, it didn’t make sense for you to respond as you did if you agreed spending more isn’t the answer. You responded to my comment below with an admission that more money does need to be spent, but with a meaningless condition.

    My comment: “All of your “solutions” require money. Name one that doesn’t.”

    Your response: “Of course they involve spending money. The point is that spending money alone is insufficient – it must be spent in support of a coherent, well-considered objective.”

    Eureka! Problem solved! We’ll squander billions more, but this time on a mysterious “coherent, well-considered objective.” Brilliant!
    Um…what would that well-considered, coherent objective be, if I may be so bold as to ask? And again, what good are these wonderful objectives when they are YOUR objectives, not the student’s?

    You are still saying that more money needs to be spent, but don’t have the slightest clue as to how it should be done. Your “solution” sets new standards for banality. It sounds like something leftist educators would come up with, in fact, it sounds exactly like all of their previous rationales for squandering money on people who aren’t motivated to learn.

    Who’s the dim one? :)

  • truebearing

    I don’t believe lack of money is remotely responsible for our pathetic public schools. Unions are a big part. Teacher’s attitudes are a big part. But the biggest factor is cultural. Morality has declined in our society and with it has come the dissolution of the American family.

    The Left has worked tirelessly to insinuate its destructive agenda into our schools, and the teachers have willingly gone along with it, in return for more money and better benefits. Political correctness has supplanted Judeo-Christian morality and the result is plain to see.

    One room school houses in the 1800′s produced junior high students that would make many of our college grads look sick. Obviously, they didn’t have computers then, and science is far more advanced now, but most of today’s students stink at math and science, despite all of the technological advantages. The biggest difference is the values of the parents and the integrity of the family structure.

    The inner city schools failed in large part because of the Left’s concerted effort to buy a voting block. They used our inner city schools to teach hate instead of reading and arithmetic. They corrupted the family structure with welfare, which led to too much idle time and black men drifting away from their responsibilities as fathers.

    Failure to teach morals and virtue leads to motivational breakdown. Intentionally teaching immorality, which is rampant in our schools, leads to negative motivation, which is why you can’t fix the inner city schools regardless the objectives. You have to fix the people first, and if they don’t want to be fixed, nothing will motivate them…other than sustained suffering, or disaster. It’s gotten that bad.

    My solution for the inner city schools is vouchers, charter schools, or any other means of getting those kids with motivation a chance at a decent education. If the rest don’t behave, are destructive, deal drugs, attack teachers, etc., then shut that school down, stop wasting money, and send those kids to burger flipping classes, because that is all they will ever be able to do without the ability to at least read and write.

  • hiernonymous

    “I didn’t get the sarcasm. Maybe you’re just a poor communicator.”

    Perhaps. I’d suggest a more likely explanation is that you’ve let your emotional response get in the way of your ability to read my posts intelligently. The first requirement to communication is the honest desire to understand what the other person is trying to say.

    “Eureka! Problem solved! We’ll squander billions more, but this time on a
    mysterious “coherent, well-considered objective.” Brilliant! ”

    You’re still letting your anger get in the way. Solving problems generally involves identifying the problem; trying to understand its nature, its causes, its effects; working out possible solutions in broad terms; narrowing possible solutions into more specific proposals that can be analyzed; then working out how to resource them. The conversation I was trying to participate in really focused on coming to agreement on the nature of the problem, and considering some of its possible causes. When Drakken suggested that having spent X amount of money implies that we’ve done all that we need to do, my response was intended to point out that the amount of money spent isn’t indicative of the degree to which the problem has actually been addressed. The dollar figure is meaningless, in the context of evaluating whether more needs to be done. Obviously, it’s not meaningless in discussing whether we have the resources to do more, or to take a different approach, or to conduct a cost-benefit analysis, but that’s not where we were.

    “Your “solution” sets new standards for banality.”

    That’s possibly because you’re trying to put the conversational cart before the horse, and misreading half of what you’re encountering in the process.

    “Who’s the dim one? :)”

    I served with a company commander once who asked one of my soldiers what was on the soldier’s mind; the soldier told the captain that it was probably best if he didn’t say. The captain made it an order – “tell me what’s on your mind.” So the soldier told him. The captain brought him up on criminal charges.

    At the hearing, our battalion commander heard the charges, looked at my troop, said “Raleigh, you know you shouldn’t have said that, right?” “Yessir.” “Right, dismissed.” No fine, no confinement, no demotion, no punishment of any sort. When Raleigh had left, we stood up to leave. “Not so fast, you.” The battalion commander looked at the company commander and said “Bob, don’t ask the question if you don’t want to hear the answer.”

    He wasn’t a great battalion commander, but that was a great moment. In the spirit of that moment, I’ll say to you “don’t ask the question if you don’t want to hear the answer.”

    I apologize for calling you dim. As someone pointed out to me recently, two wrongs don’t make a right, and pushing your buttons isn’t going to help me get my points across. A bit of a break is probably in order.

    Regards.

  • 1stworlder

    You can still buy blacks in Africa. There are charities that will buy them and set them free for as little as $5 each. Whitey was the first to abolish slavery.