What Churchill Would Make of Obama’s Iran Appeasement


iran_missiles0904141-1024x682In the fall of ’38, the motion was submitted to approve the government’s policy “by which war was averted in the recent crisis and supports their efforts to secure a lasting peace.”

The policy was the carving up of Czechoslovakia and the war being averted was World War II. Of that, Winston Churchill said, “Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war.”

Echoing that old Munich motion, the pro-Iran left is calling the nuclear deal that lets Iran keep its nukes and its targets their Geiger counters, Obama’s “achievement”. Any Democrat who challenges it is accused of obstructing the only foreign affairs achievement Obama can claim.

“Cory Booker wants to torpedo a major Obama achievement,” the New Republic shrieked. On MSNBC, Chris Hayes accused sixteen Democratic senators who wanted tougher measures on Iran of seeking a war to sabotage “Obama’s greatest foreign policy achievement” out of “fear” of the Israeli lobby.

Hayes and MSNBC were only echoing another famous Democrat, Joseph P. Kennedy, who warned of opposition to Munich by “Jew media” making noises meant to “set a match to the fuse of the world.”

Samuel Hoare, the Home Secretary, of whom King George V said, “No more coals to Newcastle, no more Hoares to Paris”, warned against those who wanted a sterner tone to bring an end to Hitler’s program of conquest as today’s Hoares warn against those who want to bring an end to Iran’s nuclear program.

“If at the very time when we were attempting… to obtain a peaceful settlement, we had accepted the advice of those who said you must face Herr Hitler with a public ultimatum,” Hoare warned. “If we had made an ultimatum… Europe would to-day have been plunged into a world war.”

Today the Hoares warn that stiffening sanctions against Iran and demanding an end to its nuclear program will lead to war. For years, the Hoares of the Democratic Party insisted sanctions were the only way to prevent Iran from going nuclear. Now the Hoares say sanctions will alienate Iran and lead to war.

Obama spokesman Jay Carney said the alternative to the nuclear deal would be war. Bernadette Meehan, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, warned that the failure of the deal will force Obama to, “choose between military options or allowing Iran’s nuclear program to continue.”

Since the deal allows Iran’s nuclear program to continue, it’s a buffet of three choices, all three of which lead to conflict of some kind. The only variations are in the date and in the capabilities of the enemy.

That was the problem with Munich.

Hitler had already been making plans for a war with Britain and France that would commence three or four years after finishing off Czechoslovakia. The only thing that the Munich Agreement accomplished was to speed up Hitler’s timetable from three years to one by letting him finish his business with the Czechs earlier than he had planned.

Winston Churchill spoke. “I will… begin by saying the most unpopular and most unwelcome thing… we have sustained a total and unmitigated defeat.”

Lady Astor, whose Nazi sympathies were infamous, interrupted him with a cry of “Nonsense”.  The Member for Berlin had written to Joseph P. Kennedy that Hitler would have to do more than “give a rough time” to “the killers of Christ” before she would launch “Armageddon to save them.”

“The wheel of history swings round,” she wrote. “Who are we to stand in the way of the future?”

Churchill, like William F. Buckley, believed however in standing athwart the history of totalitarians, their Reichs, their People’s Republics and their Caliphates and yelling stop.

“£1 was demanded at the pistol’s point. When it was given, £2 were demanded at the pistol’s point,” Churchill retorted. “Finally, the dictator consented to take £1 17s. 6d. and the rest in promises of good will for the future.”

That is the sum of all negotiations with totalitarians, whether it is with Nazi Germany, Communist Russia or Islamist Iran.

“Iran’s leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon,” Obama said in 2012. Now there isn’t even a policy of containment.

Obama’s foreign policy achievement consists of letting Iran do nearly everything nuclear it wants in the hopes that it won’t go all the way. Containment has given way to appeasement. Iran gets nine tenths of its nuclear ambitions at gunpoint in the deal and will take the rest when it pleases at nukepoint.

“We have been reduced in those five years from a position of security so overwhelming and so unchallengeable that we never cared to think about it,” Churchill said, “reduced in five years from a position safe and unchallenged to where we stand now.”

In five years of Obama, the United States has also been reduced, its security stripped away and sold to win the approval of its enemies. It’s locked into the same policy of offering worthless security guarantees to its allies and then selling those allies down the river to prevent them from calling on those guarantees and exposing their worthlessness.

That was the Chamberlain policy that Churchill was denouncing. That is the Obama policy with his chalkboard of worthless red lines whose bluffing powers he is determined to protect.

“Having secured resources which will greatly diminish, if not entirely remove, the deterrent of a naval blockade, the rulers of Nazi Germany will have a free choice open to them in what direction they will turn their eyes,” Churchill said.

Similarly the nuclear deal cuts off most options for America and its allies and endows Iran with a great many options. And once it does have nuclear weapons, its options will be nearly unlimited.

Chamberlain’s rejoinder to Churchill reduced a practical problem to a philosophical one.

“It seems to me that there are really only two possible alternatives. One of them is to base yourself upon the view that… friendly relation… with totalitarian States are impossible, that the assurances which have been given to me personally are worthless, that they have sinister designs and that they are bent upon the domination of Europe,” he said, reciting true facts with the air of a conspiracy theory.

If that were indeed the case, Chamberlain argued, “There is no future hope for civilisation or for any of the things that make life worth living.”

Peace stopped being a rational program and became a philosophical one. A world where dictators could not be successfully appeased was not a world worth living in. The appeasement of Iran follows that same self-pitying mysticism.

For Churchill negotiations were a practical policy with a practical end, but supporters of appeasement had made negotiations into a moral absolute so that practical issues could be ignored and the dismantling of Czechoslovakia could be rationalized for the greater good of peace.

Any contradictory information was drowned in enthusiasm for peace with Hitler, which became indistinguishable from enthusiasm for Hitler.

If peace depended on Hitler and the entire hope of civilization rested on Hitler’s willingness to live in peace, the Chamberlains and their Hoares had to believe in Hitler to believe that life was worth living.

Their modern counterparts substitute the Supreme Leader of Iran for the Fuehrer, or leader, of Nazi Germany, but otherwise they make the same mistake.

To believe in world peace, they must believe in Hitler, in Stalin and in Khamenei and believe that regimes which ceaselessly talk of war, build weapons of war and torture and murder their own people on a whim somehow share their hopes for peace.

*

Don’t miss Ann-Marie Murrell‘s video interview with Daniel Greenfield on Robert Gates’ Revelations Confirm Horowitz’s “Party of Defeat,” Abandoning Iraq, How Americans Died For a War Obama Didn’t Believe In, The Release of Terrorist Lawyer Lynne Stewart, and much, much more:

Part I:

Part II:

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  • truebearing

    Great historical analogy.

    Now we can redefine a fool as someone who isn’t satisfied learning from the mistakes of history, but insists on recreating them. Obama is that fool, but so much worse. He has handed Iran the nuclear fuse to WWIII.

    • Drakken

      It really is like watching a train wreck unfold and we are on the train, except it is now going to fast for us to get off of.

      • truebearing

        Like Rick said in Casablanca: “It seems destiny has taken a hand.”

    • MAHAN>IRAN

      A GREAT DEVIL AMERICA MAKE IT

      • defcon 4

        Islam is a religion of peace.

        • MAHAN>IRAN

          yes it’s true and we want peace

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Fascist Iran will get peace after they surrender, unconditionally to George W. Bush.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            surrender !!! he he he .Desperate fight, but will not bend .
            Try to understand . 8 year or 100 yaer or 10000 year

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            The Persian people IN Fascist iran will fight your regime and DESTROY it from within – as along as they get help from Freedom loving people.

            The Internet is censored in Fascist iran – but there are ways to bypass the censors.

          • defcon 4

            Bzzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong. The Persians were the Zoroastrians, there’s not many of them left in Iran these days, and less all the time.

          • defcon 4

            Do you think I didn’t write that sarcastically islam0nut?

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            As soon as we’re all dead and Islam rules the world, right? Yours is a peace of the sword …

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            what’s ur problem? I think you didn’t read quran .

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            I did. A comparative religions course as an undergraduate in college.

            But if one really wants to know about Islam, all he really need to to do is look at 1400 years of history. That teaches me all I need to know about Islam.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            I can not have anyone to become a Muslim
            ur mind Respectable

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        The GREAT DEVIL ayatollah khomeni is in H E L L for his Crimes Against Humanity.

        • MAHAN>IRAN

          he is our leader bad or good , he’s our leader I don’t like him but he’s better than America & England & Israel

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            khomeni the pig is dead. That makes him good.

          • Omar

            England is not a country. England is one of four internal divisions (along with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) of the country named the United Kingdom (or Britain) Calling the UK “England” is offensive to people living in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the UK’s other three internal divisions.

          • BagLady

            We English don’t care what the Welsh think. I like to hear England referred to as a country. We are no longer permitted to write ‘English’ as our nationality. We must put British so as to lump us together with all and sundry from far flung corners of the planet.

          • Omar

            Shut up. Accept that you are British first and individual “home nations” within the UK second. The UK will remain as one country because it is the second greatest democracy in the world, after the United States. Rule Britannia!

          • BagLady

            And what are you first, Omar? Not that I care because how you consider yourself is your own business as mine is my own. Are the French allowed to be French or must they be European?

          • Drakken

            Whatever the fu** you are, you a bloody communist and it shows that your education system shoveled the BS your spewing, educated beyond your capability nor understand, and don’t even get me started on your lack of critical thinking skills.

      • Drakken

        Wait until you get a load of our fire sunshine.

        • MAHAN>IRAN

          I wait ………………………. 6666 year later ………..

          • truebearing

            Your comments prove the superiority of the Sunnis, and that isn’t saying much.

          • defcon 4

            “superiority”? Isn’t that kinda like saying you prefer the SA to the SS?

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        Make what?

        • MAHAN>IRAN

          Make war in the world

          • defcon 4

            How peaceful!

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            say to US (devil) goverment

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            devil shiite dog khomeni.

  • TheOrdinaryMan

    Daniel, this is your greatest article.

  • Dyer’s Eve

    “From Persia, very near a million”, said Michel de Nostradame. He said time and time again that the coming war (WW3, whatever you want to call it) will come from Iran. Or Persia, as it was known in his day. He also said that this will be a religious war, primarily Islam versus Christianity, and that Rome, the seat of the Catholic church, will be very much in the firing line. “The Adriatic will be bathed with Arab blood”.
    I know I’ve harped on about Nostradamus before, but he has a point. Don’t for one moment think that Israel will be the sole target of Iran’s aggression. No. Iran and their millieu have much bigger plans.

    • Drakken

      Those bearded savages really have no idea of what they are about to unleash upon the world, little do they realize that by opening Pandora’s little box of Horrors, that they will not be able to shut the lid once it is opened, almost feel sorry for them, but then I got over it.

      • Markdpez

        Don’t forget that by their own words these homonids worship death while we in the west worship life. They celebrate death while we celebrate life. Normal diplomatic methods are useless. Force is the only option that gets their attention.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Islamism is a Death Cult.

          The 72 virgins in Islamist Paradise is an incentive to wage war and die.

  • Prof. L. Wessell

    Excellent analysis. A bit more info. Hitler did NOT want the Munich treaty, he really preferred war with the Czechs. Göring did not want war. Not because of love of peace, rather because of fear of a two-front war that Nazi Germany could not win at that time. Göring pushed for the Chaimberlain deal that Hitler accepted. If Chaimberlain had said “no”, Hitler would have probably started a war then and there with the Czechs, one that the British, the French and the Czechs themselves could have one. WW II might have ended then and there.

    Extra point: If anyone saw the movie about the solider Ryan, one saw Americans soldiers confront with trianglular iron implacements, defense against the landing of American tanks.. They were formerly part of the Czech defensesystem against Hitler. The problem was that the defensive line for the Czechs was at boarder territories, the very ones with the Sudenten Germans that Hitler wanted. Once Hitler had his “peace”, left-over Czechs had no defense.

  • EdgarDavidson1981

    It’s a great article, but there is something about the analogy that does not work. The current situation is even worse than 1938 for the simple reason that Obama, unlike Chamberlain,actually has an agenda that is sympathetic to the enemy (namely to diminish the role of American power in the world and to encourage wider integration of Islam in Western societies). It is as if Lady Astor (or even Oswald Mosely) was the British Prime Minister rather than Chamberlain. Remember that Chamberlain offered appeasement to Hitler from a positon of weakness (British armed forces had been massively scaled down in the previous 5 years while the Germans had been massively expanded) whereas Obama’s appeasement to Iran was from a position of strength; in fact Iran was on the brink of total economic collapse at the point Obama demanded sanctions be lifted. It seems to me that it was BECAUSE iran was on the brink of collapse that Obama stepped in to remove the sanctions.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      I don’t think so. America was not a World power prior to WW2.

      I don’t think Chamberlain wasn’t pro fascist, he was naive, he believe that a socialist would honor an agreement – a piece of paper.

      Today fascist iran has the same respect for agreements with Infidels written on a piece of paper as did socialist SHlTler did.

      • logdon

        Chamberlain wasn’t alone, in fact Churchill was considered by the bulk as the upstart war monger, reckless, impetuous and all too willing to drag us into yet another ghastly war with Germany.

        His record in the Dardanelles didn’t help either.

        It is understandable and I’ve written on these pages of the War Memorials which exist in virtually every town and village in Britain with their bronze plaque tallies of the dead and missing.

        They are grim and meaningful inscribed in bronze lists and to use modern terminology, in your face, up close and personal. There is no escape from their message.

        It was a grievous time and 1914/18 was considered the greatest debacle to befall Britain ever.

        This is different in that such an equally balanced war with us pitched in boggy stalemate against Iran hasn’t happened before so the excuse of the potential hundreds of thousands dead or mutilated is non existent.

        Where the confluence begins is if and when Iran does get it’s weapon and the sabre rattling against Israel (or Europe) turns into action: ie money where mouths are.

        That is the game changer.

        Meanwhile Saudi and the Gulf is watching and the shuttling of nuclear technology between them and Sunni Pakistan is going on, more or less unreported.

        So basically Obama enables a nuke tooled up ME with all the ramifications we know will ensue and that is hailed from Geneva and the 5 plus 1 enablers as a great victory.

        American military might, despite the best efforts of Obama is currently, in a real world with the very real weapons Uncle Sam possesses, capable of cutting this future conflagration short but it won’t happen.

        Nothing symbolises better than this quote

        ‘You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you shall have war’.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          GOD BLESS WINSTON CHURCHILL …

          the GREATEST MAN of the 20th Century.

          • Big Daddy

            Winston Churchill is in hell where he belongs.
            A vile mass murderer, a lifelong warmonger but a personal coward, a total failure, an first class alcoholic and a madman, this monster engineered the destruction of Europe and Britain.

          • 1Indioviejo1

            You have all the historical facts of a pimp. Is Big Daddy a pimp name?

          • Bobby

            Actually, the “historical facts” you were spoon fed to believe in since childhood concerning Churchill are all lies and propaganda, the same way as the communist terrorist Nelson Mandela was turned into a fighter for “freedom and democracy”. Massive Soviet-style fraud and propaganda.

            Here is just one of the tips of many icebergs, carefully kept under the water over the last 70 years:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7hq-og0iw

          • Big Daddy

            Patrick Buchanan, also exposed the Churchill myth in his fairly recent book called ” The Unnecessary War”.

            http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler-Unnecessary-War-Britain/dp/0307405168/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390063260&sr=1-1&keywords=the+unnecessary+war

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            LOL!

            Only problem, national SOCIALIST Germany declared War on the US four days after Imperial Japan bombed Pearl Harbor – FIRST. The US responded by declaring Ware on national Socialist Germany.

            pat buchanan is a n a z i so no surprise that he would defend SHlTler.

          • BigDaddy

            Zionut, you need a girlfriend. That would (hopefully) stop you from masturbating all day on this site.
            Are you over 18?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Booby,

            Go kiss your framed picture of national SOCIALIST SHlTler.

          • Big Daddy

            Zioturd, again, are you over 18?
            I hope that you can find a Jewish girl (minus the nose job) to solve you frustrations. Some of them are actually not that ugly.
            Or maybe your Rabbi can help?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            What’s the matter Sack of SHlTler,

            You don’t like girls like your furher Socialist SHlTler?

            Follow his lead and have a lead and cyanide wedding.

          • defcon 4

            I’m sure little boys are more your style bacha bazi man.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            HITLER THE GREAT didn’t start WWII . Britain(little england) and france made it with versay treaty

          • defcon 4

            Islam, same delusional antisemitic taste, without the Naz! fashion sense.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            jews are Rough (not all of them). they are very racist for example they have : half jew – quarter jew … jews women should make child for jewish . but they say Hitler was racist

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            shiites are pigs and dogs. That is why they beat themselves with chains and whips. To punish themselves for what they are.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            NAKBA>IRAN,

            THANKS for proving that Fascist iran are na zis!!!

            Happy Eternal Nakba iranian pig!

            DEATH to FASCIST iran!

            HANG the ayatollahs!

            LONG LIVE PERSIA!

          • defcon 4

            Why don’t you follow the example your leader set in the Fuhrer Bunker in 1944?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Booby,

            Winston Churchill inspired the Civilized World to defeat the Socialist SHlTler.

            Just think of the millions of lives that would have been saved if Gaydolf got the courage to marry a female sooner.

          • BigDaddy

            Interesting how Churchill also directly conspired to extend the bloodsoaked Red Empire of the Red Tzar all the way into the heart of Western civilization: Germany.
            Stalin’s crimes make Hitler look lie a choir boy in a Sunday church.
            Zioturd imbecile!

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Booby, you DUMB sack of Socialist SHlTler,

            Your national SOCIALIST SHlTler had a non-aggression pact with fellow Soviet SOCIALIST Stalin.

            SHlTler / Stalin Pact

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

            That non-aggression pact lasted until your national SOCIALIST SHlTler reneged on the pact and invaded Russia.

            Now go off yourself like your furher.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            You’ve got this completely wrong. You’re thinking of Roosevelt at Yalta, and his chief adviser, Alger Hiss.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            naz i filth david irving? LOL!

            Any surprise that a naz i would hate Winston Churchill?

            He LOST his libel case.

            LOL!

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            Ah, David Irving. That explains it …

          • Myrtle Linder

            Matthew 7:1-2
            1.Judge not, that ye be not judged.
            2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

            Romans 3: 10-12
            10. As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one:
            11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after GOD
            12. They are all goneout of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth gook,no not one.

            23. We have all sinned and come short of the GLORY OF GOD

          • Big Daddy

            Your line of logic compels me not to judge Genghis Khan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao or even Jeffrey Dahmer.

            Are you sane?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Booby, you DUMB sack of Socialist SHlTler,

            Please FOAD like a good national Socialist.

          • BagLady

            Are you wearing a sandwich board as you spout forth?

          • defcon 4

            Are you wearing your mandatory islamic head bag?

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            You are right about the effects, but wrong about the person who did them, and his character. I’m sure that you were speaking of Hit ler …

          • Drakken

            So your a communist? How bloody quaint!

          • Big Daddy

            This “Great Sack of S*it” called Churchill, held views identical to those of Adolf Hitler regarding the threat of Communism, which he identified as Jewish, 5 years before Hitler started dictating Mein Kampf to Rudolf Hess.

            Here is what Churchill wrote in 1920:
            http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html

            Of course, after 1936, due to the lack of any income, and the threat of losing his home, he prostituted himself to Souh African financier Strakosch. Shortly thereafter he also prostituted himself to the shadowy, secretive Focus group, financed by the British Board of Jews, whose sole aim was the fomenting of war with Germany and the promotion of Marxism/Communism.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Big Baby,

            Here is a video of your fellow national SOCIALIST filth SURRENDERING, UNCONDITIONALLY to the US, UK and SU.

            Germany Surrenders in 1945 Berlin
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-O8_L7ExrE

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            want truth come to this adress : aparat.com and search these word : هیتلر – جنگ – خامنه ای

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            NAKBA>:IRAN,

            Look this up in your shiiite koran.

            FOAD.

          • defcon 4

            That was good.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            My oft-stated opinion, also …

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            who ????? he enjoyed in canada and british(engald) people under the bomberd . I sorry for ur mind

          • defcon 4

            Hassan chop!

          • IRAN THE GREAT

            what’s ur email to 1 vs 1 . here u r many and this site delete my comments and I can’t send comment

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            IRAN THE MAD DOG must be put it down.

          • defcon 4

            So sad, too bad.

        • Markdpez

          It is true that Churchill was considered a war moonger by many and his defeat at the Dardinels was a career ending disaster, but if not for Secretary of the Navy in the 30′s convincing the govt to spend heavily on naval warships England would have been easily overrun like France ditto the rest of Europe.

          • blert

            Churchill was still in the politcal wilderness when Chamberlain, himself, wrote the big checks for the RN.

            He was brought back as a political sop — and at the last hour — so that Chamberlain’s government could attain more unity.

            The war was fought by a unity government, FYI. This arrangement ended in 1945 — and Atlee took over the government while Churchill was at Potsdam.

          • Omar

            England is not a country. England is one of four internal divisions (along with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) that make up the country called the United Kingdom (or Britain). Calling the UK “England” is offensive to the people living in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the UK’s three other internal divisions.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            So England, Scotland and Wales are analogous to a US State?

          • Omar

            Yes, indeed.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Ever scotland released the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103, on “compasionate” grounds, I finally lost all respect for scotland.

            scotland is neville chamerlain in a kilt..

          • Omar

            That’s because Scotland is governed by a leftist separatist party known as the SNP. The regional government in Edinburgh is sponsoring an independence referendum later this year. Fortunately, most Scots support the Unionist (Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat), which are all the major parties in London. Most Scots also support Scotland remaining a part of the United Kingdom. Even the lunatic Marxist politician George Galloway supports British unionism (keeping the UK as one country). Nevertheless, we must support Scots in order to ensure that Unionism wins this year’s referendum in order to keep the UK strong and stable.

      • teq

        Iran is theocratic, not fascist. Unless the Ayatollah and the Corporations have signed a power-sharing agreement.
        And Iran today cannot inflict the kind of damage on its neighbors that Nazi Germany could in 1938.
        Nazism was built around the personality of Adolf Hitler. What is the personality of Ayatollah? For all his ecclesiastical power, he doesn’t lead the Iranians the way Hitler was able to lead the Germans. I’ve never even seen the Ayatollah, or heard him speak.

        If you keep using the Munich incident every time any nations in the world move towards making peace, you’re saying you don’t trust peace.under any conditions, except the unconditional surrender of the enemy..

        • Daniel Greenfield

          Industry in Iran is a series of monopolies controlled by those close to the leadership, especially Revolutionary Guard leaders.

          Not every enemy is the same. Some cannot be trusted ever because their ideology consists of nothing but war.

          • teq

            “Fascist” means something very right wing and militaristic, right? The Iranians like to scream a lot of horrible curses on what will happen to infidels who attack it, but they don’t sees to have massive military parades like other fascist nations.We know their economy is in shambles. What shape is their military in? Would they collapse like Saddam’s did in 1991? And what do they want?

          • glpage

            What kind of shape does their military have to be in once it has nuclear warheads and delivery systems? They have missiles that can easily hit Israel and possibly parts of southern Europe and they are trying to extend the capabilities of those missiles. What is perhaps even more scary is that they could easily put a launcher on a cargo ship and get within 1500 miles of the US coast line and deliver the nuke. When you have nuclear capabilities and folks who believe that the end result of popping off several of them will herald the return of Mohammed’s successor, you really don’t need a really good army.

          • teq

            You think Rouhani believes that? Amadinejad was a messianic End-Times guy, but that’s just one movement within Islam. Same way there are End-Times apocalyptic Christians, like the ones at CUPI, who say they can’t wait for the nuclear bombs to start going off because that’ll make Jesus return.
            There are a lot of dangerous, stupid people in every religion. The question is are they cranks on the side-lines with no power, or are they running the government?

          • glpage

            In a word, yes. He is not the moderate Obama and Clinton and Kerry would like believe. When you consider who really runs the country, Khamenei, and what he believes, the same crap as Amadinejad, yes, Rouhani believes it. The president of Iran, be it Amadinejad or Rouhani or whoever, is Khamenei’s puppet. If Khamenei wants it to happen it will.

          • Drakken

            The funny thing is about your all things being equal nonsense, is the Christians/Jews and whoever else not muslim isn’t going to do what the muslims do, and that is kill you, so pull your head out of your six and understand the world for what it is, not for what you wish it to be.

          • Gee

            teq – in Iran the office of President is merely a figurehead. The only power in the country is controlled by Ayatollahs. And yes they are very much ALL End-of-Times types.

          • truebearing

            Your attempt at an equivalency between the Twelvers and Christians is pathetic. Christians aren’t building nukes so they can trigger a world wide bloodbath. Twelvers have admitted that that is their goal.

            Maybe you should learn some definitions and study the things you’re commenting on…before commenting. No one is right all of the time, but you are really missing the mark on pretty much everything.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            rouhani is an iranian theocrat – koran thumper – trying to trick the 12 imam/weasel to pop out of the well.

            The fascist iranian regime had an 8 year war with Iraq – 1,0o0,000 died – some by poison gas – so the oft spoken of 300 years of peace is a flat out lie.

            Personally I wish for fascist iran what it wishes for the US and Israel – that the islamofascist regime of iran be destroyed – by as many nukes as it takes to wipe the iranian regime off the pages of time.

            One nuke can wipe out Tehran – for starters.

            That would be terrible. That’s why it is imperative that fascist iran be defanged before it can trigger the end of the world.

            There is an opposition in fascist iran that needs the support of good nations. The ayatollahs should be in prison and eventually hanged for their crimes against the Persian people.

          • defcon 4

            Millions of naz!s had to die to defeat nazism. Do you really think your islam0fascist buddies are going to give up islam and become your best buddy and tolerant friend?

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            98 percent of iranian are muslim they belive الله -عزوجل – محمدصلی الله علیه و آله و سلم – علی علیه السلام and ali’s childern until mahdi(mehdi)مهدی عجل الله فرجه . in the war with Iraq these Saints made us win . We believe this and It’s don’t make problem for another people

          • defcon 4

            Are you so stupid you really think anyone here will believe your infantile lie? The rising pile of dead bodies killed by islam not only in its bloody, intolerant, Jew hating past but in its bloody, intolerant, Jew hating present pay truth to your lie, on practically any day of the week.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            NAKBA>IRAN,

            98 percent of iranians are SLAVES.

            HANG the ayatollash to Liberate Persia!

          • Drakken

            This is islam, this is your brain on islam, any questions?

          • defcon 4

            I read here on FPM that Rouhani asserts he has had a face-to-face meeting w/the 12th imam. Whether or not it was in the well, or at a local cafe drinking camel urine cocktails on the rocks, shaken not stirred, wasn’t stated.

          • defcon 4

            Duh, yeah I frequently here Christians yell “Death to Israel” and refer to Israel as the lesser Satan. Argument of false equivalence, FAIL.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            The Ayatollahs who rule Iran are the “messianic end-times” guys, and anyone who becomes president of Iran must hold the same beliefs. Rouhani is no exception to this rule.

            The “cranks” are running Iran’s government.

          • Gee

            I think you teq you might want to visit a dictionary. All Muslim regimes very much fit the definition of fascist.

            fas·cism noun ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-

            : a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

            : very harsh control or authority

            Has nothing to do with parades.

          • defcon 4

            A double thumbs up to Gee!

          • truebearing

            “Fascist” does not mean right wing. Fascism is derived from Marxism and is a form of socialism. Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists and fans of Marx before they modified the ideology into a nationalistic version.

            Once in possession of nukes, how hard will it be for Iran to takeover Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, and so on? The oil of Iraq and Iran alone will pay for a lot of Russian and Chinese made arms. Getting crazed Muslims to enlist won’t be hard. They can field a very large army in a very short period of time once the nuclear umbrella is in place.

          • PAthena

            “Fascism” does not mean “right-wing.” The Fascist Party was founded by Benito Mussolini in 1917; he had been a leader of the Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper “Avanti.” The Socialist Party of Italy held to the Marxist view that war was between capitalist countries, so that they opposed the involvement of Italy in World War I. But Mussolini changed his mind in 1917, and founded the Fascist Party, as a nationalist socialist party (vs. the internationalism of the Socialist Party). His follower Adolph Hitler, likewise founded the Nationalist Socialist Party (Nazional Socialismus) (which is why it was called a “fascist” party. So “fascism” is “left-wing,” socialist.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            hitler was a Socialist.

            That’s why they called themselves National SOCIALISTS.

            Plus, as a good National SOCIALIST, hitler had a non aggression pact with fellow Soviet SOCIALIST Stalin.

            Any leftist who tries to promote the fantasy that Stalin was anti-nazi from the beginning is misinformed or deliberately ignoring history.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            we too

          • defcon 4

            Are you a bacha bazi man?

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            bi sharaf goh nakhor . bahce baz babate

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            NAKnBA>ira

            Happy Eternal Nakba!

          • Daniel Greenfield

            Your definition is wrong and Iran has lots of military parades. Their economy has problems due to sanctions.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            saddam was ba-as

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            khomeni is ba-as.

          • hiernonymous

            There’s a lot to dislike about Iran’s theocracy. On the other hand, it would be intellectually dishonest not to note that the country whose ideology consists of nothing but war has not, in fact, started a war in living memory.

          • Drakken

            I see your history is a tad fuzzy collaborator, you forgot the embassy takeover (act of war) my barracks and the embassy being blown up, twice in the case of the embassy in Beirut(act of war) and let us not forget various Islamic attacks all over the globe against western interests by Iran, so spare me the Iran never has tacked anyone BS. Your friends the Iranians one way or another will have that war they crave, except they won’t expect the final western response, Total and complete destruction. I don’t think that guy living in the well will be able to get out because of all the rubble in the way.

          • hiernonymous

            “I see your history is a tad fuzzy collaborator…”

            Really? What wars did Iran start?

            When the U.S. provided the means and the know-how for the Contras to mine Nicaraguan harbors (act of war), we were, nonetheless, not at war with Nicaragua. (While we’re talking about fuzzy history, it’s also worth noting that the barracks that was attacked was full of U.S. Marines – in Beirut. I deplore the loss of life of my comrades in arms, but let’s not be weak sisters – if you’re going to send your armed forces abroad to fight, don’t act surprised when someone else fights, too.)

          • Drakken

            Those Marines in Beirut were my fellow Comrades and friends, not yours, so I don’t know where you get this we from, since you so openly side with the arabs and anyone else for that matter who is anti-US or anti-western. Ollie and company did a great job with the Contras and really took it to the Sandinistas, it was too bad that myself and a few others missed De-Blasio and a few others by a few hours when they were there.
            Your friends and Comrades the Iranians will get the war they want, you can bet on it, the funny ironic thing is, that guy in the well ain’t getting out of it.

          • hiernonymous

            “…so I don’t know where you get this we from…”

            Then your memory is as dull as your wits. I continued to serve with the military long after you’d left to be a contractor, hero – assuming that you’ve told your story true, and that your inability to correctly name your own company was simply a slip.

            I take it that your customary retreat into bluster can be taken as acknowledgment that you’ve no substantive answer to the question of Iran and its wars. Regards.

          • Drakken

            I am very easy to find, the name changes and diverges depending on what program you are on and where you are at, the paycheck remains the same, doesn’t matter what you think, only what my paycheck says, the fact that you are still advising the military in its failed policies of PC really is tragic, still trying the hearts and stupidity approach?
            The answer is quite simple where Iran is concerned, they will produce a nuke and then all h*ll will break lose, the Iranians will conduct massive guerilla ops all over the western world in response, that is the answer to the question.

          • hiernonymous

            “The answer is quite simple where Iran is concerned…”

            The same has been said of every state that has obtained nuclear weapons. Care to recount the history of their actual use in combat?

          • Drakken

            I see you have failed to answer any question I have asked, it is quite an omission. So obviously you are one of these supporters of this failed hearts and stupidity policy. I really wonder if you could look a mother or father in the eye after you side, promote and defend a suicidal policy that puts our troops in the ground. Absolutely stunning!!!!

          • hiernonymous

            Was there an argument hidden in there somewhere, or are you simply going to posture a bit more?

          • 1Indioviejo1

            I am not surprised that you served in any capacity. During Vietnam I had the nauseating experience of knowing a good many Marxist, most of them unknowingly, who had no idea why we were there and didn’t care. I am sure these are the same MF’s who would vote for aid to the Communist regime in Hanoi. Unfortunately we are overrun by your ilk. You are probably an Obamista too.

          • hiernonymous

            Well, I’m not so old as to have been in Vietnam, but as I recall, we were in Vietnam because the Communists were going to take over the world if Saigon fell.

            Saigon fell. I don’t remember the Communists taking over the world.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            coummunism fell in Europe.
            The Berlin Wall fell in Germany

            communism failed.

            To make up for that defeat, SOCIALISTS have aligned themselves with like minded Sand naz is.

          • hiernonymous

            “Sand naz is.”

            Interesting – I grew up hearing some of my redneck friends refer to Arabs as “Sand N*****s,” Wonder what made you think of that formulation…

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Sand nazis.

            That’s why Socialst SHlTlers “mein kampf” is a a Best Seller in the Arab/Muslim Ummah.

            Google Images “arab n a z i salute”.

          • hiernonymous

            “Google Images “arab n a z i salute”.”

            A prominent return is the Phalange. You were saying something about the Umma?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Incongruously you chose to ignore
            - the “Inside Hizballah” pics
            - the yellow bandana wearing gestapo.
            - the mein kampf in Arabic – a Best Seller in the islamofascist ummah
            - the black masked fascists

            How could you have missed that???

            LOL!

            Google Images “arab n a z i salute”

            Happy Eternal Nakba!

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            As you said, they are your friends.

          • hiernonymous

            Well, not anymore. They’re not where I’m hearing that sort of language these days.

          • defcon 4

            How does the holey koran refer to Jews again mus-slime?

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            The amount of money spent by the Russians to prop up North Vietnam during the war was one of the economic factors that pushed it over the edge, in 1989. The other factors were their disastrous war in Afghanistan, and their attempt to keep up with the US military buildup in the Reagan Administration.

            The Fall of the USSR was why the communists didn’t take over the world. Vietnam was a factor in that fall.

          • defcon 4

            Is that you Major Hassan?

          • hiernonymous

            I’m afraid Major Hassan is no longer practicing psychiatry. You’ll have to find your help elsewhere.

          • defcon 4

            “Practicing psychiatry”, is that what you call proselytizing islam?

          • hiernonymous

            My mistake – I’d assumed that when you invoked MAJ Hassan’s name, that you at least knew what his job in the Army was.

          • defcon 4

            I know what his duties might be according to the US Army , but his job as a true follower of allah’s final prophet seemed to be at odds w/that duty — as it has been for other musl0-nazi soldiers.

          • 1Indioviejo1

            Never forget that the Sandinista Regime is an illegitimate result of an armed rebellion. The Contras were true freedom fighters and the great Ronald Reagan was the only clear headed President this country has had since Eisenhower.

          • hiernonymous

            Ah, yes, Somoza was a beacon of freedom and hope.

          • Drakken

            Somoza was far better on his worst day, than the Sandinistas were on their best day.

          • hiernonymous

            Pretty familiar with Somoza, are you? Interesting.

          • defcon 4

            Recent revert to the religion of peace Hamid?

          • hiernonymous

            Are you able to show me anything in my posts that indicates my religious beliefs? And can you show my religious beliefs to be germane to our discussions?

          • 1Indioviejo1

            Which Somoza? There were three of them in 33 years of a corrupt strong man rule. Basically they were there to enrich themselves and their cronies, not unlike the Demonrats today. As Dictators they were more left wing than anything else. Nicaragua had Communist dominated trade unions and Schools for the whole period of the dynasty. The government funded National University was the birthplace of the new FSLN. Any self respecting dictator would have ended that nonsence in a heartbeat, but ignorant that they were, the Somozas ignored the damage being done to the country by the educated few, and continued on their merry way of looting the nation. Thieves and all, the Somozas permited more freedom and liberty, limited albeit, than any Sandinista regime, and at one time had one of the best economies in Latin America. Maybe by default because I don’t believe they were Capitalist at all. You are just a Marxist ideologue with an axe to grind.

          • hiernonymous

            “…the Somozas ignored the damage being done to the country by the educated few”

            Now that is an interesting construction.

            “You are just a Marxist ideologue with an axe to grind.”

            You apparently see Marxists everywhere. What an odd obsession.

          • defcon 4

            Just like islam eh Hamid?

          • hiernonymous

            I don’t recall referring to Islam as a beacon of freedom and hope. However, Somoza was a dictator and Islam is a religion, so there’s not much basis for fruitful comparison there.

          • Omar

            Oh, and what about the military and other aid that the Soviet Union and Communist Cuba provided to the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua during the civil war in that country in the 1980s? What about the aid the Soviet Union and Communist Cuba provided to the FMLN rebels in El Salvador during that country’s civil war around the same time? Admit that you are an anti-American, pro-Soviet/neo-Communist (in terms of foreign policy) Russian, pro-Chinese Communist, pro-Cuban Communist Stalinist/Maoist. Learn from facts.

          • hiernonymous

            “Oh, and what about the military and other aid that the Soviet Union and Communist Cuba provided to the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua during the civil war in that country in the 1980s?”

            Okay, what about it?

            “Admit that you are an anti-American, pro-Soviet/neo-Communist (in terms of foreign policy) Russian, pro-Chinese Communist, pro-Cuban Communist Stalinist/Maoist.”

            Again, you’re raving. Do you find that, in the circles you normally frequent, calling someone a communist or whatever is a good substitute for making your case rationally?

            “Learn from facts.”

            Certainly. So let’s identify the facts and figure out what can be learned from them. You’ve noted that the Soviets provided support to the Sandinistas, via Cuba. That’s perfectly correct. Now, what is your chain of logic that follows from that fact?

          • truebearing

            You are ignoring their proxies and discounting their stated intentions. Iran has threatened to wipe out Israel, repeatedly. Hizbollah — an Iranian proxy — has been at war with Israel, now in Syria. Iran has been the world’s biggest supporter of terrorism. They are responsible for immense numbers of US casualties in Iraq. Asymmetrical or not, terrorism, as conducted by Iran, Al Queda, et al. is a declaration of war.

            If a nation commits an act of war, but no war ensues, doesn’t the conclusion have to be that the nation attacked prevented the war by not retaliating? Therefore, Iran has provoked war repeatedly, but we haven’t been smart or foresighted enough to respond and annhilate them, and now it is too late. Obama will enable them until we have a Middle East that is bristling with nukes. Then we will have a war that may leave no one left with a “living memory.”

          • hiernonymous

            “Hizbollah — an Iranian proxy — has been at war with Israel…”

            Good – let’s look at Hizballah. Before Hizballah came into existence, the PLO had been located in southern Lebanon and was engaged in a guerrilla war with Israel. Israel took Drakken’s approach – enough with the subtlety, forget the negotiations, all these people understand is power, so let’s be done with it. Israel launched a massive attack into Lebanon. It didn’t go as well as they hoped, but it went well enough, in that the PLO was driven out of Lebanon. Backslaps all around.

            Except that Israel remained in occupation of southern Lebanon, and the previously apathetic Shi’a of the area stopped being apathetic. Israel maintained its occupation, all in the name of providing security for its northern borders, and resistance to the occupation grew. Eventually, this organization would come to dwarf the PLO in its capabilities; over the years, as Hizballah learned its trade, the casualty exchange rates in its fights with the IDF dropped from 10:1 to 5:1 and eventually to 1:1, and the IDF retreated into Israel. In 2006, Israel decided to repeat its previous operation, and the IDF crossed into southern Lebanon again – and this time had its tail handed to it, because years of occupation duty had rendered the IDF more than a bit rusty at its core competency of fighting wars.

            What’s the point here? It’s not that Israel was unjustified in invading Lebanon; after all, its borders were under constant attack. It’s not that it couldn’t justify the occupation of southern Lebanon – after all, the civil war had left the government of Lebanon incapable of maintaining order. No, the Israeli policy wasn’t unjustifiable – it was just stupid. Drakken’s sort of bluster makes people feel good, maybe a little less helpless and uncertain, but all it actually does is breed more violence. Hizballah isn’t an Iranian plot – though Iran certainly supports it – it’s a natural consequence of shortsighted Israeli policy.

            The problem with your whole “the nation attacked prevented the war” formulation is that it’s pretty rare that you can identify the initial provocation so simply. Hizballah was not created by the Iranians as a way to launch covert war on Israel; it was created by the Israeli attack into Lebanon, and the Iranians were more than happy to take advantage of the situation. But Israel wasn’t a mindless aggressor when it attacked into Lebanon – it had been provoked by the PLO. And the PLO wasn’t a mindless aggressor, either – its people had been driven out of their homes by the Israelis. By the time the chain of provocations is that long, only the simpleminded or those looking to justify their own violent intentions can usually identify an unequivocal initial act of aggression.

            So, yes, it’s quite useful to draw that key distinction between war and not-war. None of the actors involved has failed to support proxies in their maneuvering, but in the end, Iran differs from Israel and the U.S. in that it has not – again, in living memory – gone to war. That shows no small amount of restraint, when one considers that it has seen the U.S. – an openly hostile state – invade and conquer both its eastern and western neighbor. The point here is not that “Iran good, U.S. bad,” but to point out that the chest-thumping about how warlike Iran is and how little they can be trusted with weapons of mass destruction ignores the fact that its track record doesn’t support that characterization.

            And, yes, Ahmadinejad used an awful lot of fiery rhetoric to try to establish his domestic political strength. But you’ll notice that Ahmadinejad came and went and – no war.

            You might also want to peruse Mao’s rhetoric when China got the bomb. He made statements that make the worst of Ahmadinejad sound tame in comparison, openly stating that China’s population was so great that it would be worth losing the bulk of its population in a nuclear exchange, as China would recover and the U.S. would not. You’ll note that deterrence prevailed there, too. There’s no sign that the sky will fall if Iran gets the Bomb.

          • truebearing

            All the Palestinians do understand is power. Every concession by Israel has resulted in more of the same behavior by the Palestinian leadership. They won’t acknowledge Israel’s right to exist, so no negotiation is worth a damn. How did that elude you?

            Hizbollah is an Iranian creation, concieved by the minions of Khomeini, supported, trained, and armed by Iran. It is irrelevant that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard aren’t the ones firing the rockets or fighting the battles. Hizbollah is an extension of Iran’s military, therefore, Iran is acting as an agressor and was involved in the battles in Lebanon. The chain of provocations starts and ends with Muslims. They have made it clear that they not only want to destroy Israel, but all nations, ideologies, and religions that are non-Muslim. I believe you will find corroborating teachings in their Quran.

            The hostilities the US has been involved in, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, were not the result of random hostility on the part of the US., and you know it.

            I notice you didn’t attempt to refute that Iran is the world’s biggest supporter of terrorism. Asymmetric war is still war, and they are the biggest supporter of that perpetual war against the US, the West in general, and Israel.

            Comparisons to Mao are superficial. Mao did not subscribe to the beliefs of the Iranian Twelvers. He didn’t have the capacity to deliver his few, relatively low power bombs. He didn’t believe that the 12th Imam would return if he bathed the world in blood. His threat was impotent, at the time. Iran’s isn’t.

            Iran can not only threaten Iarael, they can control the oil of the entire Middle East once they acquire nukes. Clearly, Saudi Arabia agrees, which is why they are furious at Obama. Now they will buy nukes for themselves, and probably Egypt. Now you have nuclear proliferation in the most unstable region of the world, peopled by the most violent cult on earth, Islam. Obama’s idiotic, or worse, policy as regards Iran has the region and the world poised for a nuclear war.

          • hiernonymous

            Hizballah was not an Iranian creation; it was a consolidation of various Shi’a militias. Once it formed, Iran provided support – notably in funding and in training by the Revolutionary Guards.

            “It is irrelevant that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard aren’t the ones firing the rockets or fighting the battles.”

            How could that possibly be irrelevant? Providing training and support to another state or to a non-state actor does not make the recipient an extension of the donor. Contrast the role of the Soviet Union in the Vietnam War, in which the Soviets provided funding, training, equipment, and advisors, to that of the Chinese in the Korean War, in which the Chinese military itself intervened. The Soviets were not belligerents in Vietnam; the Chinese were in Korea.

            By your logic, the United States was the aggressor in WWII, having provided funding, equipment, and training to the British long before either Germany or Japan committed any aggression against the U.S.

            “I notice you didn’t attempt to refute that Iran is the world’s biggest supporter of terrorism.”

            That comment is too vague to refute; what, exactly, does it mean, and what significance do you attach to it? I’d agree that Iran is the primary patron of Shi’a extremist organizations. Breaking that down into ‘terrorist’ and non-terrorist can be pretty tricky. For example, Hizballah is a very large and complex entity – it has a political arm, a military arm, and one you’d consider the terrorist arm. Providing air defense weapons and training to the military arm of Hizballah would not reasonably be considered supporting terror, though parts of Hizballah engage in terror. On the other hand, providing unguided rockets for use in terror attacks certainly would. Similar comments apply to Hamas – it’s an organization that is far more than simply a terrorist group, so simply chalking up any and all support to Hamas as ‘supporting terror’ is meaningless. If you’re prepared to articulate exactly what you mean by “world’s biggest supporter of terror,” I can tell you whether I agree or not.

            Comparisons to Mao are superficial. Mao did not subscribe to the beliefs of the Iranian Twelvers. He didn’t have the capacity to deliver his few, relatively low power bombs. He didn’t believe that the 12th Imam would return if he bathed the world in blood. His threat was impotent, at the time. Iran’s isn’t.

            Come again? Mao actually had bombs when he made his threats; Ahmadinejad didn’t (and Ahmadinejad is no longer in office, you may note). The whole point of the analogy was that both leaders made intemperate existential threats while developing their nuclear capacity, but once China was in possession of a mature capacity, it behaved in the same rational manner as every other nuclear power has – at least, in the context of nuclear weapons.
            As both leaders made statements indicating that they believed their ideology demanded destruction of their enemy, and Mao’s comments indicated that this duty went so far as to being willing to absorb the full destructive capacity of the U.S. counterstrike, it’s hard to see on what objective basis you believe that Ahmadinejad’s ideology is somehow more serious or threatening.

            As for threatening the oil of the Middle East, they already do so. If you haven’t acquainted yourself with the location of the various terminals used by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, the Emirates, you’ll find that the vast majority of it must transit the Strait of Hormuz, which Iran can interdict without need of nuclear weapons.

            “Now you have nuclear proliferation in the most unstable region of the world…”

            Is it? I always thought that the Korean DMZ had the honor of being home to the craziest confrontation in the world.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            North Korea and Fascist Iran.

            Two legs of the Axis of Evil.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil

            What could go wrong?

          • hiernonymous

            Ah. A link. To wikipedia, no less.

            “What could go wrong?”

            We could get sucked into another pointless elective war by mindless hysteria?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Tell Fascist Iran to end its war mongering and its attempts to start a nuclear conflagration just to trick their 12th imam to pop out of the well.

            Of is that too counter revolutionary?

            Do you claim that the North Korean dictatorship and Fascist Iran are NOT collaborating in their WMD programs?

          • defcon 4

            Yeah all the genocidal threats against Jews and Israel muttered by your islam0fascist ayatollahs, mullahs and imams are just our imagination.

          • Drakken

            It is only pointless if we don’t win, and that means those muslims kissing your feet not to kill them. Simples, but then you never do come up with a plan of action now do you? You just come up with Islamic justification. Interesting indeed.

          • hiernonymous

            “Simples, but then you never do come up with a plan of action now do you?”

            A plan of action for what?

          • Drakken

            Keeping nukes out of the hands of Iran(shia) and sunni states of Saudi and Egypt? What is your plan of action if they do get them?

          • hiernonymous

            I don’t see a compelling need to keep nukes out of their hands. First, trying to suppress technology is a losing proposition. Second, to date nuclear deterrence has not failed us, regardless of how unstable or unpredictable the regimes holding the weapons. In an odd sort of way, they may even have helped keep the peace; if Pakistan and India had not possessed nuclear weapons, it’s very likely they would have gone to war in the wake of Mumbai.

            Rouhani can’t move, hide, or protect Tehran from retaliation. As I’ve pointed out, Iran does not tend to start wars. One might well argue that if possessing nuclear weapons made it feel more secure against the sort of invasions that claimed its immediate neighbors to west and east, it might feel less compelled to use proxies to try to keep our attention engaged outside its borders.

          • defcon 4

            The rockets being fired into Israel (variants of the Katuysha I believe) from Lebanon islam0tard, were supplied by Iran and they knew exactly what they were going to be used for.

          • hiernonymous

            It seems to have escaped your attention that Katyusha rockets are not armed with nuclear warheads.

          • Drakken

            MAD does not work with the shia of Iran, they truly believe that if they fire one of those off that the madhi will crawl out of a well and save them. I will argue that keeping nukes out of the hands of these folks is a really good idea, if they get them, all bets are off. As for the Indian dilemma? The pakis and Indians will find an excuse to go after each other soon enough.

          • hiernonymous

            “MAD does not work with the shia of Iran, they truly believe that if they fire one of those off that the madhi will crawl out of a well and save them.”

            And this is different from the Christian view that the necessary harbinger of Jesus’s return is a worldwide apocalypse starting in the Middle East? The Iranians have actually behaved in a pretty rational way for a bunch of wild-eyed religious fanatics simply gunning for the end of the world. This is the sort of thing that starts to happen when you start believing your own caricatures of others’ beliefs and world views.

            “I will argue that keeping nukes out of the hands of these folks is a really good idea, if they get them, all bets are off.”

            All bets have been off since Trinity. So far, though, history’s on my side; nukes have fallen into the hands of people who have been characterized more hsrshly than you’re characterizing the Iranians now, and so far, no nuclear war. The closest we’ve come hasn’t been at the hands of the madmen or the wild-eyed fanatics, by the way, but at the hands of the U.S. and USSR. Fancy that.

          • truebearing

            “Hizballah was not an Iranian creation; it was a consolidation of various Shi’a militias. Once it formed, Iran provided support – notably in funding and in training by the Revolutionary Guards.”

            Yes, “consolidated” by Iran.

            “How could that possibly be irrelevant? Providing training and support to another state or to a non-state actor does not make the recipient an extension of the donor. Contrast the role of the Soviet Union in the Vietnam War, in which the Soviets provided funding, training, equipment, and advisors, to that of the Chinese in the Korean War, in which the Chinese military itself intervened. The Soviets were not belligerents in Vietnam; the Chinese were in Korea.”

            Nonsense. That is diplomatic speak, not reality. The only reason the Russians weren’t treated as co-enemies was because of the consequences of confronting a nuclear power, which significantly enough, is why we are discussing the Iranians acquiring nukes.

            “By your logic, the United States was the aggressor in WWII, having provided funding, equipment, and training to the British long before either Germany or Japan committed any aggression against the U.S.”

            Absurd argument. We knew Germany was the aggressor in Europe. We were Britain’s ally, and we had the moral clarity to help those in need. By your “logic” nothing the US has done has moral merit.

            “That comment is too vague to refute; what, exactly, does it mean, and what significance do you attach to it?…For example, Hizballah is a very large and complex entity – it has a political arm, a military arm, and one you’d consider the terrorist arm… providing unguided rockets for use in terror attacks certainly would…If you’re prepared to articulate exactly what you mean by “world’s biggest supporter of terror,” I can tell you whether I agree or not.”

            You need specifics so you can parse words and equivocate. I don’t care if you agree, or not. You are trying to intellectualize the true reality of Muslim aggression and terror. You want to arrange facts and definitions so they hide the simple truth. I’ve seen this tap dance before.

            “it’s hard to see on what objective basis you believe that Ahmadinejad’s ideology is somehow more serious or threatening.”

            It’s hard for me to see how you’ve managed to miss it. Between intellectual hubris and denial, you’ve entirely failed to differentiate between the motivations of two pernicious ideologies. How many Chinese suicide bombers do you remember reading about?

            I’m fully aware of the Strait of Hormuz. I hope you didn’t pin your argument on that rather obvious fact.

            “I always thought that the Korean DMZ had the honor of being home to the craziest confrontation in the world.”

            Funny you should bring that up, but it was poor salesmanship. The Korean DMZ was the result of your kind of thinking. MacArthur had a simple solution, but the equivocators of his time left us with the DMZ, and the eventual war that it will take to resolve it. It also left us with Communist China.

          • hiernonymous

            “You need specifics so you can parse words and equivocate.”

            No, I need specifics because “Iran is the biggest supporter of terrorism in the world” is, by itself, as meaningless as “truebearing is Justin Bieber’s biggest fan.”

            “…you’ve entirely failed to differentiate between the motivations of two pernicious ideologies.”

            No, you’ve completely failed to show how the differences are relevant. Once we’ve established that each ideology provided motivation for enmity with the other state, what relevant difference remains? That’s your argument to make, not mine.

            “How many Chinese suicide bombers do you remember reading about?”

            As earlier noted, suicide bombers are a tool of those on the weaker side of a power imbalance. We saw Chinese human wave attacks in Korea, but we were never able to press them to the point that such tactics were necessary. If your question is really “have those inspired by Communist ideology been willing to commit suicide attacks,” the answer is ‘certainly.’ Viet Cong used the tactic, though certainly not as commonly as the (non-Muslim) Tamil Tigers and a variety of (very Muslim) jihadist organizations were to do in later years.

            “I’m fully aware of the Strait of Hormuz. I hope you didn’t pin your argument on that rather obvious fact.”

            I hope you didn’t think that “I hope you didn’t pin your argument on that rather obvious fact” actually constituted an argument or rebuttal.

            “MacArthur had a simple solution…”

            Ah, yes, WW3. An excellent recommendation. Since our air force and delivery systems were then much superior to those of the Soviets, the bulk of the hundreds of millions of innocents who died would probably have been Chinese and Russian, and it’s unlikely that we’d have lost more than a handful of our own cities. Good thinking.

          • defcon 4

            It’s not meaningless to the najjis kaffir being killed by Hezbollah islam0ape.

          • hiernonymous

            And what do you suppose “najjis kaffir” to even mean? Why do you try to use Arabic terms when you don’t know how to use them?

          • defcon 4

            Yeah, it’s really an appellation of respect isn’t it lying islam0ape?

          • hiernonymous

            It doesn’t really mean anything as you’ve written it. If you’re going to try to use Arabic, learn to do it correctly.

            “…lying islam0ape?”

            Interesting. You think Muslims are apes?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Just the islam0apes who practice and support and celebrate stabbing, bombing, hijacking, stoning, hanging, poison gassing and killing the wrong kind of Muslim.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            WW3 to trick the mahdi to pop out of a well is a Fascist Iran idea.

            DEATH to Fascist Iran!

          • hiernonymous

            “DEATH to Fascist Iran!”

            Yes, and someone else to do the fighting, no doubt. My hero.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Your heros?

            Your heroes hijacked four passenger planes on 9/11 and are the reason why there are checkpoints at every airport in the world.
            .
            To prevent another islamofascist Crime Against Humanity.

          • hiernonymous

            Keep flailing. It’s not really a substitute for rational thought, but if it’s all you have, it’s all you have.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Keep FAILING. You bring joy to our hearts and Eternal Nakba to islamofascism.

            Your greatest opponent is the daily news where any rational person can see that Islam is at War with everybody.

            Every terrorist atrocity brings the end of Islamism closer.

            You even got KBG Putin on your boys azz.

          • hiernonymous

            “…where any rational person can see…”

            How would you know? You’re certainly not approaching this discussion with any hint of rationality.

            “…to islamofascism.”

            This sort of dull portmanteau would be a bit more bearable if you weren’t simply parroting someone else’s stale ‘wit.’ Do you have any thoughts of your own to offer?

          • defcon 4

            Denying islam0fascism is all you have, all you have.

          • hiernonymous

            Sorry, lad, I don’t even know what “islam0fascism” might be.

          • truebearing

            “No, I need specifics because “Iran is the biggest supporter of terrorism in the world” is, by itself, as meaningless as “truebearing is Justin Bieber’s biggest fan.”

            No, you want to continue to avoid the truth. Iran is the biggest exporter of terror, and I have never even heard a song by Bieber. Name a country that exports more terror than Iran. I know what you will say, but go head and prove me right.

            “No, you’ve completely failed to show how the differences are relevant. Once we’ve established that each ideology provided motivation for enmity with the other state, what relevant difference remains? That’s your argument to make, not mine.”

            There are a number of differences between the Communists and the Twelvers, and Muslims in general. First, the Communists were rational enough to recognize the reality of mutual assured destruction. Nothing in their ideology suggests that they believed there was anything to be gained in total global annhilation. The Twelvers believe that that same outcome will trigger the return of the Twelth Imam and usher in heaven for Muslims. Communists don’t believe in an afterlife. This planet is it. As the most materialistic of all religions and ideologies, the Communists weren’t about to intentionally trigger a world war with nukes. Twelvers are a different breed with an entirely different belief system.

            “Ah, yes, WW3. An excellent recommendation. Since our air force and delivery systems were then much superior to those of the Soviets, the bulk of the hundreds of millions of innocents who died would probably have been Chinese and Russian, and it’s unlikely that we’d have lost more than a handful of our own cities. Good thinking.”

            Our air force and delivery systems were superior. The Soviet Union didn’t have the nuclear capabilities or numbers they led us to believe they had at that time.

            Hundreds of millions of Russians and Chinese would die? Based on what?

            The Chinese army had a lot of bodies, but nowhere near the weapons we did. Russia couldn’t have defeated the Germans without our money, trucks, food, etc. How could they sustain a campaign against the US with no money or food? You give them both too much credit. Neither one would have been able to feed their soldiers, much less contend with our manufacturing capacity and weapons.

            BTW, do you know how many of their own citizens Russia and China murdered during that period and after?

            We would have lost cities? Not to Russian bombers. They didn’t have anything that was fast enough, nor did they have a particularly impressive navy.

            Chicken-little thinking like your own led to the DMZ in Korea, half of Europe ending up under Soviet control, and Communist China. And then there was the Cold War, where at least once, the world could have witnessed a nuclear war…if the Soviets hadn’t backed down because they knew they were no match for us. We’d have been better off stopping Stalin’s land grab, and deposing Mao.

            You think your weak-kneed approach will stave off WWIII forever? It’s what got us into WWII. Read Greenfield’s article again, and again, if necessary. I’m sure you’ll understand eventually.

          • hiernonymous

            “Name a country that exports more terror than Iran.”

            By what criteria? Dollar value of material support? Number of different terrorist groups receiving training and equipment? Number of terrorist attacks tied to the supporting host country? Number of personnel in the groups receiving support? Tell me what your question actually means, and I’ll do my best to answer it.

            So regarding Communism, by your description, the Communists were rational – this world is it, so there’s no sense in blowing it up – but Twelvers, with their returning Imam, and Christians, with their Second Coming, would behave less rationally. An interesting point. Are you arguing that the U.S. and Iran should disarm, and the Chicom be given a rational nuclear monopoly?

            Re your comments about the probable results of a nuclear war with the Soviets and China, there are a number of points you should probably reconsider. U.S. assistance to the USSR was very important in WWII, but it’s not at all clear that Germany could have won if they’d not received such assistance; I invite your attention to Crefeld’s Supplying War for a look at how logistical constraints in the German military were the fatal flaw to Barbarossa. You also don’t seem to be familiar with the extent of the collapse of U.S. military power after WWII. It took everything we had – nearly every available fighting formation – just to hold the Pusan perimeter against a third-rate, third-world North Korea – after the humiliating loss of Task Force Smith – and once we’d rallied to defeat the North Koreans, the Chinese slammed us all the way back to the 38th parallel, and it took all our services could do to hold that line. I’d not be too bullish on our prospects in a ground confrontation against both the Soviets and China. Our only chances would have been employing nuclear weapons – hence “hundreds of millions” of casualties. Mao himself anticipated such casualty levels, and found it acceptable – or claimed to find them so in public, at any rate. We note that he never actually took action.

            Similarly, you have a Clancy-esque faith in the solidity of our radar coverage and our ability to intercept anything that flies. You might recall an incident a few years back when a young man landed a light plane in Red Square. It would be foolish to assume that a country with the resources of the USSR would be unable to deliver any warheads to CONUS.

            “You think your weak-kneed approach will stave off WWIII forever? It’s what got us into WWII.”

            No, I think that you’re raving, trying to recreate the Communist threat in another form because you find it comforting and simple. Islam isn’t Nazism, Rouhani isn’t Hitler, and there isn’t a Muslim Wehrmacht busily training in some Soviet Union against the day it could be unleashed on the world. Paranoia is its own reward. A more evenhanded reading of the world situation is that the world is reverting to a more traditional multipolar arrangement; America’s position as unipolar power is eroding as China and India (and possibly Russia and Brazil) become more powerful. Islam is hardly the most significant security threat we face – that would be China – and such threats aren’t best faced by panic-induced bluster.

            You might want to consider Britain’s security conundrum in the years leading to WWII. On the one hand, there’s no doubt that the experience of WWI had left Brits with little taste for war, and I think we’d all agree that a firmer hand against Hitler would have avoided a lot of horror. On the other hand, Hitler or not, Britain’s relative stature in the world was inevitably declining, and it did not have the resources to try to continue to enforce a Pax Britannica. You remind me of the old guard in Britain, insistent on trying to maintain the Empire because…well, just because. That way lies ruin and collapse.

            You are jumping at Muslim shadows, ignoring more significant security threats, and appear to take it as a given that we should want to continue to police the world because, well, because.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            truebearing, true AKBAR!

          • Drakken

            Why does what this guy says surprise you? It is this thought process of hearts and stupidity, concern for our enemies that have gotten us into this mess in the first place. There is no substitute for Victory period, and we have lost our will to win since ww2 and lack of resolve on our part, infused with a healthy dose of PC, mixed in with deathly afraid to break things and kill people. It just makes conflict that muck likely to come about. That is why Israel isn’t winning wars these days because they are afraid to kill these effing ragheads.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            Hizbollah defence . Just IT

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            hizbollah will surrender, unconditionally to Israel – unless hizbollah cries to the UN begging for a cease fire.

            nasrallah pops up out of his bunker every so often. Follow nasrallah with drones and where he goes to his underground bunker – drop a MOAB and be done with it.

            DEATH to the islamofascist regime of iran!

            LONG LIVE PERSIA!

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            In 33 days war they showed . LONG LIVE IRAN & PERSIA & MADD & PART & ALL ARYAN & ALL IRANIAN (aryan or not ) & LONG LIVE ISLAM .
            DEATH TO Excess all

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            wher’s my comment????!!!!
            someone delete it ?
            In 33 days war showed it . hehehe .
            نصر من الله و فتح قریب
            حق پیروز است و باطل نابود

          • defcon 4

            Your sentiments WRT Persia are about a thousand years too late.

          • hiernonymous

            I’m sorry, I don’t understand your comment.

          • defcon 4

            The anti-tank rocket fired into an Israeli school bus? Supplied by Iran.

          • hiernonymous

            If you’re answering for MAHAN>IRAN, you need to be more coherent. If this is just one of your random non sequiturs, carry on.

          • defcon 4

            Your entire defense of islam0nazism is a non-sequitur.

          • defcon 4

            Yeah Hezbollah are really just freedom fighters aren’t they Farshad?

          • hiernonymous

            If you couldn’t understand what you read the first time around, there’s little reason to think your comprehension would approve on the second.

          • defcon 4

            If you think your first lie about hezbollah wouldn’t fly, why not try another?

          • hiernonymous

            Can you show that anything I’ve said about Hizballah is incorrect, much less intentionally so?

          • PAthena

            Persia has historically been at war many times. That is why there was a Persian Empire, (defeated by the Greeks at Marathon and at Salamis). The name was “Persia” for over 3000 years until 1937, when the then Shah was an ally of Hitler’s Nazi Germany. Hitler took a linguistic category, Indo-Aryan languages, so named by an Englishman (now called Indo-European languages), Persian being an Indo-European language, the Aryas being the largest subgroup of the Persians. The Shah in 1937 changed the name of Persia to “Iran” to fit it into Hitler’s racial theory.
            The least the Ayatollah’s could do is to change the name of “Iran” back to “Persia.”

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            what are you said !!! It’s so funny . In the Shahnameh wrote Iran In the Bisetoon wrote Aryan in Daryus (King of hakhamanesh)said : I ‘m King of Aryan . Ferdosi in shahnameh use Iran word a lot .I’m Iranian or u ??!!
            READ MORE AND AFTER THAT COME HERE.OK?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Why does Fascist Iran force women to wear black sacks when there is a drawing of a VAGINA in the middle of the iranian flag?

          • Drakken

            I much prefer the old flag under the Shah than that abomination you display now.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            The symbol in the center looks like a headless penguin with a handlebar mustache.

            Of course, headless creatures, including humans, are common in Iran!

          • defcon 4

            Is that a vulva?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            It’s a picture of hermaphrodite khomenis vulva.

            That’s the iranian revolution – Islamist vulva

          • teq

            Didn’t the Persian wannabe “Aryans” notice that they didn’t have the prerequisite platinum blond hair and cobalt blue eyes to qualify for Ayranhood?

            The archaeologists from the best German universities went around excavating for “Aryan artifacts” and at the Fuhrer’s orders, brought back lots of them. Of course they were later deemed to b frauds. It was archaeology’s darkest hour. They sold out truth to politics. Or maybe just fear.

          • defcon 4

            SOld out “truth to politics”, kinda sounds like the enemedia and academia in the US today.

          • Drakken

            There hasn’t been a Persian in over 800 years, the arab muslim conquests bred the Persian out of them.

          • defcon 4

            The Parsi were the Persians. The Zoroastrians have been persecuted and murdered in all too typical fashion by the islam0nazis who now run Iran to such a degree that Zoroastrianism is no longer the largest minority faith in Iran — although it was once the majority faith of Persia.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            8 year iraq/iran war proves you wrong.

          • hiernonymous

            Or would, if Saddam Hussein had been Iranian.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            8 year war between Iraq and Iran proves your claim that Iran has been at peace for 300 years is a lie.

            And that lie is the basis of the claim that fascist iran wouldn’t wage war against other nations.

          • hiernonymous

            “8 year war between Iraq and Iran proves your claim that Iran has been at peace for 300 years is a lie.”

            Just out of curiosity, can you actually read? If so, what would it take to convince you to do so? I never made a claim that “Iran has been at peace for 300 years.” My claim, cleverly concealed in black on white nearly three inches above your own post, was that Iran “has not, in fact, started a war in living memory.”

            If you don’t understand the difference between starting a war and ‘being at peace,’ you should be studying and learning rather than trying to participate in conversations you can’t follow. Similarly, your circle of acquaintances includes some remarkably long-lived specimens if “within living memory” evokes a span of 300 years in your mind (or whatever you’re using in its stead).

            If you do understand the difference, then you were either unconscionably careless in your reading and in your reaction, or you were being actively dishonest in your characterization of my comments.

            It is to be hoped that you now understand that Iraq’s surprise attack on Iran did not constitute a war started by Iran. If you’re still having trouble puzzling that out, let me know, and I’ll try to think of an even simpler way to put it for you.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Fascist Iran did wage an 8 year War with Iraq – 1,000,000 people died.

            After the War ended Fascist Iran used children, carrying plastic “keys to heaven”, to clear the minefields with their bodies.
            And today Fascist Iran stages rallies where the crazed mobs scream death to America and the “Zionist regime” and parades with missiles emblazoned with similar slogans are held.

            Hardly the behavior of a peaceful country – but that of a murderous, genocidal regime which stones women to death, hangs gays, executes “spies”, kills opponents of the regime.

          • hiernonymous

            H: Iran has not started a war in living memory.
            SS: Many words; no examples of wars started by Iran.

            Allow me to wish you the best of luck in your studies, should you decide to pursue some. Cheers.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Nit picking.

            Bottom Line… Fascist Iran waged war with neighbor Iraq. 1,000,000 died in that 8 year war.

            Today Fascist Iran threatens genocide on Israel and the US..

            At what point should Israel defend itself against genocide?

          • hiernonymous

            “Bottom Line… Fascist Iran waged war with neighbor Iraq. 1,000,000 died in that 8 year war.”

            Well, no, that’s not the ‘bottom line.’ The ‘bottom line’ generally refers to the essential fact, the element most relevant to the discussion. In this case, the ‘bottom line’ is about the decision to go to war. In the Iran-Iraq War, that decision was made by Saddam Hussein.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Started:? War Waged by Fascist Iran against Fascist Iraq.

            When Muslims can’t get along with with fellow Muslims, the prophet muhammed (pestilence be upon him) cries.

            And the rallies in Fascist Iran calling for death to America and the “Zionist Entity/Regime” (how infantile is Fascist Iran?), coupled with Fascist Irans military parades show the face of genocidal Fascist Iran.

            An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

            Fascist Iran needs to be “wiped off the pages of time”.

          • hiernonymous

            Well, no, it was a war launched by Ba’athist Iraq against a theocratic Iran. Does slapping “fascist” in front of the name of every actor you dislike pass for thought in your circles?

            “…how infantile is Fascist Iran?”

            Interesting question. In one breath, you call Iran ‘infantile’ for calling for the death of American and Israel, and in the next breath you are calling for the death of Iran. This suggests an unflattering answer to your question.

          • defcon 4

            But Iran is an islam0fascist theocracy that persecutes people of other faiths and women as a matter of course and as per the dictates of islam.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            It was a intra sunni/shiite blood bath – and a prime example of why Islam is the self declared “Religion of Peace”..

          • hiernonymous

            You should acquaint yourself with the 30 Years’ War sometime.

          • defcon 4

            Argument of false equivalence. There’s no other religion slaughtering unbelievers in the 21st century except your death cult Hamid Al Taqiyya.

          • hiernonymous

            What was false about it? Are you suggesting that the passage of time renders the comparison invalid? If so, think about what you’re actually arguing. The religions haven’t changed – it’s other circumstances that have. This suggests that it is not Christianity or Islam, per se, that leads to political violence done in the name of the religion. Or were the Christians in that war worshiping a different Christ than Christians do today?

          • defcon 4

            Furthering the notion of your argument of false equivalence is what muslo-nazis like you did in the Indian sub-continent — killing and/or enslaving tens of millions of Hindus and Buddhists. Stick it where the sun don’t shine Ahmed.

          • hiernonymous

            I notice that you didn’t actually answer my question.

            “Stick it where the sun don’t shine Ahmed.”

            It’s like encountering an angry Pee Wee Herman on the internet.

          • defcon 4

            It’s an anachronistic argument, because faiths other than islam aren’t persecuting, murdering and forcibly converting people of other faiths.

          • hiernonymous

            If you’re arguing that “other faiths aren’t persecuting, etc” is an anachronistic argument, then you’re saying that they did those things at one time and no longer do so. This raises the question – why did they do those things at one time, but not today? The faith hasn’t changed. Jesus hasn’t popped by to modify his teachings.

            By your logic, even if Islam were the source of the violence in the Middle East (and that’s by no means a given), then the difference between the Muslim world and others would not be in the nature of the religion, but in the triumph of secularization over religion that has occurred elsewhere. This suggests that trying to view Islam as a uniquely violent religion is not going to lead you to a useful answer.

          • defcon 4

            NO means a given. Talk about a bald face lie islam0ape.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            America and Britain TOO . Which war ? WWI . WW2 . IRAQ & IRAN WAR . VIETNAM WAR . KOREAN WAR . answer me which war ha?

          • hiernonymous

            I confess that I have no idea what point you were trying to make. Could you reframe your comments in a way that makes your question a bit more clear?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Like Fascist Iran using their own children to clear mine fields from their 8 year Iraq/Iran War.

            ayatollah khomeni in H E L L gets joy from dead children that he molests.

            DEATH to Fascist iran!

            LONG LIVE PERSIA!

            The Persian people will HANG the ayatollahs.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Just wait until your “iran” gets wiped off the face of the Earth.

            Soon. INSHALLAH!

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            many of my reletive killed at that War.Iranian love peace for ever we hate of war

          • defcon 4

            Yeah, just like mad mohammad liked peace eh lying musloswine?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Fascist Iran is on fire?

            Must be a workplace accident in Qom.

          • Drakken

            Well then ! I guess you had better get rid of those goddamn mullahs then right? Or otherwise us infidels will do it for you.

          • defcon 4

            It doesn’t matter how many mullahs you kill, there will always be another musl0nazi waiting to take his (and it’s ALWAYS a he isn’t it?).

          • Drakken

            Well it looks like they are going to run out of bodies sooner or later then?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            NAKBA>IRAN,

            sunnis killed your relatives in the 8 year Iraq/Iran war or was it a workplace accident?

            Were your relatives hanged by the regime because they were homosexuals, stoned to death over your “family honor’?

            What was it?

          • defcon 4

            Was the Iran-Iraq War just a figment of my imagination? BTW, who funds/equips/trains Hezbollah? Djinns?

          • hiernonymous

            “Was the Iran-Iraq War just a figment of my imagination?”

            A good deal of your worldview appears rooted in your imagination. In this case, your problem is as simple as understanding what you read. I noted that Iran “has not…started a war in living memory.” Iran did not start the Iran-Iraq War.

            If you didn’t know who started that war, you should have looked it up before commenting. If you did know, but didn’t understand that to be germane, you’re too dim to offer opinions. If you did know, and just hoped that those reading your comment wouldn’t recognize that it was important, you’re dishonest.

            “BTW, who funds/equips/trains Hezbollah? Djinns?”

            Iran, largely, as I’ve already noted. If you need a couple of hours to catch up with the conversation before commenting, take your time.

          • defcon 4

            There’s nothing to like about Iranian islam0fascism.

          • logdon

            As in Dar el Islam and Dar el Harb.

            Quite telling, in fact the basis of the whole thing really.

            Non-muslims living in the Dar el Harb are referred as ‘Harbi’ and here’s how they are viewed (from wikipedia)

            Harbi (Arabic: حربي‎ literally belonging to war) is a term of classical Islamic law, which refers to a non-Muslim, who does not live under the condition of the dhimma. Harbi is counterterm to dhimmi. Sometimes the terms appear in the combination “kafir harbi” resp. “kafir dhimmi”.

            The harbi is the inhabitant of the dar al-harb (house of war). A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live. If a harbi wants to enter the territory of Islam (dar al-islam) he needs a safe-conduct called aman.[citation needed]

            So there you have the generosity and pluralism of Islam.

          • defcon 4

            It’s amazing how many libtards I meet who think that the najjis kaffir are treated equally and fairly in islamic states.

          • logdon

            Lara Logan learned the hard way.

          • defcon 4

            I wonder whatever happened to her career in the enemedia? I didn’t notice much sympathy for her from her comrades in that industry and I imagine they don’t want her around to remind them of islamic intolerance.

          • logdon

            She prepared and presented a very valid piece on Benghazi but because of one lying blowhard (British I’m sad to say) who embelished fact for self aggrandisement she’s now been ‘sidelined’.

          • defcon 4

            Her brutal epiphany about islam came at the cost of her career.

          • logdon

            Her first Saul of Tarsus moment was in Tahrir Square, the second at the hands of CNN executives obviously pressured into sidelining her at the least excuse.

            The excuse was an error of judgement which when looked on as part of her big picture was really neither here nor there, but with an MB stuffed administration calling the shots, elevated into a sacking crime.

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            who delete my comment?? … kafer (کافر) means is : someone don’t believe god .(not christain and …

          • MAHAN>IRAN

            harbi kafir mean is : someone fight with god and muslims should fight with him . but another kafer(کافر ) is : someone don’t believe god and muslims He does not work

          • Drakken

            Your a goddamn bearded Islamic savage, soon raghead allah isn’t save your azz from our infidel wrath. I almost feel sorry for you and yours, and then I got over it.

          • teq

            The Revolutionary Guards supported Amadinejad, I recall, and are still on the reactionary side which is also against the peace agreement and trying to scuttle it. It’s kind of funny that AIPAC and the Revolutionary Guard are both on the same side in this one. So are the Salafists. It’s a Sunni-Shiite showdown with both sides split into liberals (Westernized secularists) and conservatives.

            The case against Iran is sounding more and more threadbare. And I don’t accept assertions about them on faith because I accepted them about Saddam and wasd deceived.

            Look at the wretched state of Iraq today, devolving back to desert. And Afghanistan, with its frail, corrupt regime ready to fall to the Taliban the minute the US moves out.. How many of us know some of the wonderful kids who went there and died.What did they die for? For this? Were they deceived too?

            Something just doesn’t sound right about this messaging.

          • 1Indioviejo1

            Liberal/Socialist/Progressive.

        • Drakken

          What the ayatollahs have that Hitler didn’t, is legions of muslims in western countries to create as much havoc as they can, what will result will put what we did to the japs to shame, there won’t be a muslim left to trade at that point, fo we will give every muslim no matter the strip the Serb Option.

        • MAHAN>IRAN

          i sorry for u a lot . I live in Iran and I love my country for ever with ayat allah or without them. American are devil u and ur friends like france and england(don’t say britain) and help to Iraq like bomb and plane and money . benjamin netanyaho said Iran is dangerous for us . I say to him mr.Benjamin u aren’t danjerous for the world . we have Atomicbomb or u????!!!

          • defcon 4

            Why don’t you dive down that well and divine the mahdi’s will?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Tehran is even smaller than Israel.

            No Tehran and NO mahdi.

            That should make khomeni happy.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            shiite iranians pray to Satan.

            That is why they get on the ground and pound their heads into the mosque pavement – to get as close as possible to Satan and Ayatollah Khomeni.

        • defcon 4

          Yeah, when Iran’s religious police shakedown Iranian Jews, Baha’i or Christians, it’s very secular. Or when Iran hangs Jews for being Israeli spies after closed courtroom trials w/no public scrutiny or appeals process, it’s a secular act.

        • defcon 4

          Islam is fascism.

      • blert

        Chamberlain had been Britain’s Secretary of the Exchequer before becoming PM. During his tenure there and later, he expanded military spending like a maniac.
        Chain Home radar
        Merlin aeroengine (Spitfire, Lancaster, Mosquito, P-51…)
        Aircraft assembly lines (massive slabs and infrastructure built in the late 1930s — kept largely secret at the time)

        King George class battleships (super rushed, hence 14″ rifles)
        Asdic/ Sonar

        Trick torpedoes (RN first to perfect subs hunting subs)

        Economic warfare

        (London was constantly frustrating Berlin’s accumulation of war essentials. Stalin’s pact blew up the Franco-British economic blockade. Until then, they’d been able to choke off German oil imports. Stalin’s deal permitted Hitler to fill up what had been empty tankage. Indeed, frantic expansion of crude oil storage was promptly undertaken in late 1939. It was this slug of ‘found’ oil that permitted the Luftwaffe the insane operational tempo witnessed during May, 1940 — and into the Battle of Britain. Neither campaign could’ve proceeded without Stalin’s crude oil. The last of this ran out just west of Moscow. This was the motivation for rolling down to Baku next June.)

        Churchill fought to victory with the systems that Chamberlain established.

        You will note that America has played many of these same cards, over and over again, since 1945.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Your Chamberlain was a FOOL to think that Socialist SHlTler would honor a written document.

          You’ve seen the newsreel of Chamberlain waving the piece of paper – as if all would be good – Peace in our time.

          If it weren’t for Churchill, the fascists IN Britain would made Vichy France’s collaboration look like furious opposition.

          The Puke of Windsor was a na zi fanboi. That is why he was kicked out from the throne and spent WW2 in the Carribean.

          And the US stayed out of WW2 due to isolationists and FAKE anti-war movement whose goal was to give Socialist SHlTler time to solidify his grip of Europe.

      • MAHAN>IRAN

        merica isn’t world power now

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Why does Fascist Iran want Mecca destroyed in retaliation – for starters?

          • Drakken

            Shhhh, you should be encouraging them to do it.

      • defcon 4

        Didn’t the US tip the balance in WW1? WW1 had settled down to becoming a stalemate of slaughter before the US entered the war — especially when Russia vacated the field following the Communist Revolution.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      That’s true, but then history rarely offers perfect analogies. And yet there are a good many in the Democratic Party who like Chamberlain know Iran is evil and yet defend peace negotiations for the sake of peace.

      • Myrtle Linder

        Many have read and heard of Iran’s leaders saying, “We will blow the USA and Israel off of the map and still do not distrust them, do not think that they are the enemy. Where do they have their brains hidden or is there any brains to hide, in those who continue to say that Iran is not the enemy. Maybe it is because “they are with Iran as the enemy!” If we expect to survive we had best recognize that THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST is the only possible to survive. If I can understand HIS WORD correctly, ‘JESUS COMING AND VERY SOON.” This will end all evil against us as Christians.

        • BagLady

          Another two dimensional visionary. If I say that in my opinion, Iran is not your enemy, that makes me your enemy does it? Well, so be it.

          If Jesus returned tomorrow, how could you be certain he is not an imposter?

          • defcon 4

            Once he hooks up w/your 12th imam then we’ll all know he’s for reals. Oops, except he will call himself not Jesus, not Yeshua (his given Hebrew name) but instead Issa.

          • JoJoJams

            That’s easy. If he’s spouting the same drivel as you, then, he’s obviously an imposter.

    • blert

      Chamberlain is over emphasized WRT Munich. Britain contributed the naval component to the collective defense. An island power, she had a trivially small, irrelevant army.

      Édouard Daladier was Prime Minister when France caved on Czechoslovakia. The ONLY Western power in any position to apply real pressure was France. She had the dominant army AND the only adjacent border with Hitlerite Germany.

      Barely noticed by historians, Goring frustrated Hitler at Munich. It was Herman that forced the deal forward. (!) Adolf was so furious that he wouldn’t talk to Goring for weeks afterward. His big buddy was in the dog house. Herman figured that prompt war would have the French pouring over the border in their unstoppable tanks. Germany was still dependent upon tankettes. (Mark I and Mark II were 90% of the action in 1938. Series production of the Mark III and Mark IV had just begun — and both were just trickling off the production lines.)

      Subsequently, Hitler observed the Czech fortifications, all located in the Sudetenland. He sobered up and decided that Herman was right after all. Fully half of all the tanks that invaded Poland and France came from the Czech Skoda Works.

      %%%

      Barry has actually assumed the mantle of Daladier, not Chamberlain. He’s in command of THE power of decision. He doesn’t even need to fall back on allies — whatsoever.

      He’s fulsomely feckless, entirely on his own.

      Setting fulsomely fanatical 12ers loose upon the planet with visions of terminal exaultation to the beds of 72 virgins is an epic folly impossible to top.

      This eclipses all known historical fools and madmen.

      While Barry romances himself, the world must take note: the mullahs ascribe ALL of his acts as being driven by Allah. He can be credited with nothing positive. Further, raised into the Wahhabist ranks, he must always be deemed a deviant, heritical, Muslim — as Wahhabism is considered cultish even by Sunnis.

      The unpublicised side-dealing must surely touch upon not embarrassing Barry until February, 2017. By that time Tehran will have more atomic explosives than France or Britain.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        I didn’t understand your “Barry”.

        BHO.

        I didn’t vote for BHO. The US is in trouble.

        BTW, the US did NOT release the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103. That slap in the face was done on “compassionate” grounds for Libhan oil contract for BP.

  • MikeWood

    This quote of Chamberlain seems to me to be particularly telling:

    “It seems to me that there are really only two possible alternatives. One of them is to base yourself upon the view that… friendly relation… with totalitarian States are impossible, that the assurances which have been given to me personally are worthless, that they have sinister designs and that they are bent upon the domination of Europe,” he said, reciting true facts with the air of a conspiracy theory.

    If that were indeed the case, Chamberlain argued, “There is no future hope for civilisation or for any of the things that make life worth living.”

    Chamberlain commits a logical fallacy here. He is arguing that to believe the points made in the first statement leads to unpleasant conclusions THEREFORE the statements must be wrong. This is a huge error. Things are true or false regardless of whether we like them or not. Take note of this: you will see liberals committing such fallacies over and over. Liberals are dominated by wishful thinking which they defend will fallacious arguments and vicious tactics. Learn to spot their wishful thinking and the wishful assumptions that underlie it and you have their Achilles heel.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      It is a huge error and yet this is how the left operates. Its breaks everything down into two alternatives, either you want starving children or welfare, etc and rejects any criticism of their alternative as a preference for starving children

      • justquitnow

        There are only two kinds of people in this world…those that think there are only two kinds of people and those that don’t.

        • logdon

          There are only two things I can’t stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M

          • Drakken

            Oh come on now my British friend, what’s the matter with the Dutch other than they are as stubborn as all heck? ;)

          • logdon

            Hey Drakken,

            It’s satire, Caine rubbishes bigotry and then comes straight out with it.

            By the way their pancakes are delicious.

            And if you’ve never tried the raw salted and pickled herring you’re in for a real treat. It’s like the Dutch hot dog. Cart upon cart selling them in the street.

          • Drakken

            Been to Holland many times and have a lot of friends there, I got the satire, not many folks understand Brit humor, but alas I got it . ;)

          • Drakken

            Oh yes, almost forgot, where I am from in the Jackpine Savage region of the US, lutefisk, sardines, and pickled herring are our regions icons. That bloody lutefisk, and I don’t care where your from, is the most god awful stuff on the planet.

          • logdon

            It can’t be worse than English tripe. Basically raw cows udder.

            It is as you’d imagine.

            Then there’s the jellied eels and on that note I’ll stop!

          • Drakken

            Thanks Don, I am now visually scared the rest of my life! ;)
            If you had ever smelt Lutefisk, it stays with you for weeks and the stench clings to your clothes forever.

          • BagLady

            Some UN department just voted them No One in the world as far as healthy eating is concerned. Seems you can eat well in Holland at an affordable cost.

            The meanest spirited man I ever met was a Dutchman. The meanest man with money I ever met was a Dutchman. However, I am prepared to believe it is a fluke since I have many nice ones too.

          • defcon 4

            I thought prostitution was haram in islam?

      • logdon

        The classic straw man, the starving child being that person.

        Note also in your analogy that the quaint old notion of traditional family support is quietly, yet ominously intentionally cut out of the starvation versus welfare equation.

        Who needs families when Mother Russia/America/EU will take care of our every need?

        And thus we are all beholden and basically slaves of the state.

        • Daniel Greenfield

          Family is of course treated as a subsidiary of the global social village, the transnational state

  • kasandra

    Excellent article. Thank you, Daniel.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      thank you

  • wildjew

    If or when Iran crosses the nuclear threshold, I doubt they will be so foolish as to invite war. Rather they will bide their time multiplying these weapons by the hundreds in the years to come. In the event, William Shirer’s premonition will become reality.

    In the 1959 forward to “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” Shirer wrote: “Adolf Hitler is probably the last of the great adventurer-conquerors in the tradition of Alexander, Caesar and Naopoleon, and the Third Reich the last of the empires which set out on the path taken earlier by France, Rome and Macedonia. The curtain was rung down on that phase of history, at least, by the sudden invention of the hydrogen bomb, of ballistic missile and of rockets that can be aimed to hit the moon.

    “In our new age of terrifying , lethal gadgets, which supplanted so swiftly the old one, the first great aggressive war, if it should come, will be launched by suicidal little madmen pressing an electronic button. Such a war will not last long and none will ever follow it. There will be no conquerors and no conquests, but only the charred bones of the dead on an uninhabited planet.”

    • Daniel Greenfield

      For Iran, nuclear weapons are a counter and a tool. They can use them to dominate the Persian Gulf, that may well lead to war, but not under Obama. And they can use them to destroy Israel.

      • wildjew

        All that is true, but ultimately in years or decades to come, with many hundreds of these weapons in the hands of the Iranians, Islamic cells, Islamic terrorists, etc., aimed at and maybe within major cities in the West, Shirer’s prediction could become reality. America is the Great Satan. Who is so naive to believe America will be spared?

        • Drakken

          The Jews of Israel will burn every Iranian before they let them have nukes, American leftards be damned.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        What would stop a genocidal fascist iran to attack other “infidels”?

        They openly declare death to America.

        Nip fascist iran in the bud.

  • Waiting

    Short article, worth several chapters of a history book for the wealth
    of information it provides. Thank you for your insight, research (if necessary?), &
    dedication to informing others. History is fascinating and so necessary
    to understand the present, and the future.

  • GuyGreen

    My respect for Daniel Greenfield knows no bounds. This haunting piece excels for many monstrous reasons, but also for reminding me of the rancid Lady Astor. The vapid virago once said to Winston Churchill: “Winston, if I were your wife, I’d put poison in your coffee.” To which the great man replied: “Nancy, if your were my wife, I’d drink it.” Now you will know why he wisely meant it. My prayers are always with you Daniel. You are a soldier’s soldier. Keep warm.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Let us not forget the nazi duke of windsor.and his nazi wife and their admiration for hitler.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1370242/Queen-Mother-The-people-caused-trouble-Wallis-Simpson-Hitler.html

    • logdon

      Daniel Greenfield is a true marvel.

      How he keeps up the volume with every one a gem is the mystery of our age.

      In fact I’m beginning to think that there’s a whole Greenfield grotto full of bright eyed elves, all called Daniel scribing away at these insights.

      • Daniel Greenfield

        Yes, but the elves only come out at night

        • logdon

          Would those be the nocturnelves?

    • Daniel Greenfield

      As a wit and a thinker, she was hopelessly outmatched

  • 2wotvet

    Iran has no intention of nuking Israel. Such an act would kill thousands of Palestinians and contaminate land that Palestinians claim as their own. It would also damage or destroy several Islamic holy sites.

    • Drakken

      MAD doesn’t work with Islamic fanatics sparky, they just justify it by thinking that those in pali land will go to paradise.

      • 2wotvet

        If Iran believed Palestinians were disposable, it wouldn’t bother supporting Hamas and Islamic Jihad and only rely on Hezbollah. As it is, it’s trying to make political inroads into the heart of
        Palestinian society in order to expand its regional power. No point in doing that if you’re just going to kill them all.

        • Drakken

          You really don’t understand how the muslim mind works do you? You of all people should always remember to know the 11th commandment, thou shall know thy enemies as thy knows thyself. Muslims no matter the stripe will always quit killing themselves enough to go against the infidel and they don’t care how many of themselves they kill to get the job done.

        • Daniel Greenfield

          Iran is too isolated to only rely on Shiite allies.

          • 2wotvet

            Exactly. Even if Iran doesn’t care about ‘Palestinians’, it still needs them. An Iran-backed ‘Palestinian’ state would be critical in helping Iran become the dominate power in the Middle East. Both Iran and the ‘Palestinians’ know that even a small scale nuclear attack on Tel Aviv will still contaminate territory that ‘Palestinians’ want so badly.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        MAD – Mecca Assured Destruction might be a deterrent.

    • JoJoJams

      The palestinians are pretty much considered low-life scum by the rest of muslims and arabs. And Drakken’s comment is spot on, too, even if they do “care” about the pallys. As for the “islamic holy sites”, they only care about those if another religion looks at them funny. Muslims are masters at selective outrage, being outraged when others do to them, what they do to others.

      • 2wotvet

        Those Islamic holy sites do mean a lot to Muslims. Part of the reason Israel is so hated is because its occupying land all Muslims see as holy. Osama Bin Laden himself was disgusted by how many mosques were destroyed in suicide bombings in Iraq and Pakistan in the decade after 9/11. Iran is trying to become the dominate power in the Middle East and it knows it won’t
        become that if it puts the 3rd holiest site in Islam at risk of
        damage or worst.

        • JoJoJams

          I disagree on your assessment. While the majority of muslims may look at it that way, the “small minority of fanatics” (read: pious, devout followers of mohammed, following his edicts and examples as they themselves not only profess, but also point out to the “scripture” in the quran that backs their “misinterpretations” of islam) look at it a different way. To wit – ultimately, those “holy sites” are just man-made structures, and anything that advances islam is permissible. And what would more than likely happen, is the terrorists would believe the ummah would “get over it” soon enough. And they would….. It only takes a small percentage of a populous to do revolutionary things – and 90% of the rest will just go along with the flow – even if they grumble a bit. That is human psychology 101.

          The only thing that would definitely rile them up would be damage to Mecca – which, of course, is in their rival nemesis’, the Sunni’s and Wahhabis of Saudia Arabia, domain.

        • defcon 4

          Scuzzlums are only interested in the Temple Mount because it’s Judaism’s holiest site.

        • Daniel Greenfield

          Sorry but that’s a myth. The Jerusalem site in Israel was only designated as “holy” for political reasons due to infighting among Muslim rulers.

          Osama’s use of US troops as a call to war is likewise political cynicism.

          This is about pretexts for power and war.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      You assume that Iran cares about the “Palestinians”. It doesn’t. And a smaller scale attack on Tel Aviv would kill some Arabs and far more Jews, but wouldn’t contaminate any holy sites they claim or affect that much of

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        MAD, “Mutual Assured Destruction” deterred the US and SU.

        It’s an incentive to twelvers, islamofascist regime of iran.

        Take out Fascist Iran NOW.

  • justquitnow

    I don’t get it. The sanctions were suppose to force them to negotiate. Now they are. So it’s appeasement. So what wouldn’t be appeasement? Bombing Iran?

    How does everything on FPM come back to the Nazis.

    • Drakken

      Shhhhh shortbus, the adults are discussing things, your wishful kumbaya thinking is duly noted, I really do hope that your mother doesn’t let you play with matches.

    • JoJoJams

      Are you honestly that unthinking? Do you never see the nuance of arguments? WHAT was “negotiated” and what was just given away? You really should take your nom de plume to heart… Seriously.

      • justquitnow

        Yeah but the article says that Iran gets to keep it’s nukes. Maybe I’m just thrown by the witty and pithy writing….

        • JoJoJams

          So, the sanctions were a response to Iran’s nuclear program – to penalize them to try to economically force them to stop their program. That failed, though it came close…. So, then Obama “negotiates” (behind closed doors as well, as has been reported) and the Iranian’s get to keep their nuclear program, as you just stated, and you don’t see how the word “appeasement” fits?
          You know what, slick? I’ve seen a lot of your posts, and I believe you are smarter than that, and do see some truths.

          • justquitnow

            “nukes” are nuclear weapons which they don’t have. What constitutes getting rid of their nuclear program? Can they develop nuclear energy?

          • Daniel Greenfield

            Nukes are the outcome of the nuclear program which they are being allowed to keep.

            Iran doesn’t need nuclear energy. It’s an oil power.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Saudi Arabia is more concerned about a nuclear shiite Fascist Iran than a nuclear Israel.

          • justquitnow

            A lot of people disagree with you. I’m a bit fuzzy on Iran’s refinery capability, power plants and general electricity needs…maybe you could do an article that is an honest assessment of such.

          • Daniel Greenfield

            Iran produces more than enough oil for its own needs and for export.

          • justquitnow

            OK…well, you’ve staked out your ground on this issue. I hope you don’t get nuked…good luck.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            I hope you get nuked in Tehran – a workplace accident.

          • blert

            PLUS two centuries worth of natural gas that they still can’t sell overseas after thirty-years of trying.

  • FlyOnTheScrtm

    I had to go read up more on Neville Chamberlain and Lady Astor and what I read from Wikipedia about their roles before WWII are astonishingly similar to what is happening now with Obama and crew that I had to wonder about the saying that “history repeats itself.” Thanks Daniel for bringing these important details of history so that those who wish to learn and not to be fooled will well be aware of the times.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      History repeats itself

  • Webb Cook

    Yeah, for street decorations these freaks hanged 40 people from cranes in the past 2 weeks. We know exactly what they intend to do.

    • Drakken

      Iranian wind chimes, I frankly don’t give a rats azz how many of themselves they kill. If you think that those being hanged would welcome us as liberators? I want what your smoking.

      • defcon 4

        Yet no one in the liberal media has anything to say about it, instead they demonize Israel.

  • Jerry G

    Obama hasn’t given up to Iran. He is purposefully aiding and abetting Iran. The only country able and hopefully willing to stop Iran is Israel. The big question is what will they do and are they led by a Chamberlin or by a Churchill? I fear that right now Netanyahu is more Chamberlin than Churchhill.

  • http://www.abay.vn/Ve-quoc-te/ve-may-bay-di-tay-ban-nha Nhóm Đào Tạo

    Take note of this: you will see liberals committing such fallacies over
    and over. Liberals are dominated by wishful thinking which they defend
    will

    ve may bay
    ve may bay gia re
    Gia ve may bay

  • RESIST

    This comment has been deleted.

  • Myrtle Linder

    Better, yet! What do loyal pro-America Christian citizens, who have kept with the blessings of GOD for 2,500 years, think? Even ore important, what does GOD the CREATOR THINK??? I believe that we can look at weather conditions and give a good guess. Look at the increase in blizzards earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, droughts, in the last few years. This should tell us something.

    Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an over flowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

    Luke 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginning of sorrows

    Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

    America is in for a long hard haul, and GOD is the only one that can save us and only if we turn back to HIM. WE have filled the place of rule with the enemy, the few who are Christians are not enough tow sway the people to turn away from evil but I know without a shadow of doubt that GOD will take care of it all at HIS chosen time. To find how HE will do this read 4:13-18, 2 Peter 3:8-18 and Revelation 21.

    There are many more scriptures the th t will back these scripture up.

  • BagLady

    Ana excerpt of a conversation with Sharon:

    One of them, which he expounded at the same time to the
    US strategic planners, was to conquer Iran. When Ayatollah Khomeini
    dies, he said, there will begin a race between the Soviet Union and the
    US to determine who will arrive first on the scene and take over. The US
    is far away, but Israel can do the job. With the help of heavy arms
    that the US will store in Israel well before, our army will be in full
    possession before the Soviets move. He showed me the detailed maps of
    the advance, hour by hour and day by day.

    Nuclear threat or strategic position?

    • Daniel Greenfield

      More like fantasy from someone who has never seen a map of the Middle East.

      Israel doesn’t share a border with Iran. It’s also a fraction the size of Iran. It’s like Germany accusing Cyprus of plotting to conquer it.

      • BagLady

        Not sure where you’re coming from.

        “In 1953 the
        United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow
        of Iran’s popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadeqh. The Eisenhower
        Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic
        reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran’s political
        development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to
        resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs.” [Madeleine Albright]

        • Daniel Greenfield

          What does that have to do with Israel somehow invading and taking over Iran, a country with ten times the population and eighty times the land area that it doesn’t share a border with.

          It makes as much sense as Israel invading France

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The fascist, genocidal ayatollahs are worse than anything the Shah ever did.

          • defcon 4

            Isn’t that the truth. Jews didn’t live in fear for their lives. Women wore miniskirts in Tehran. Iran didn’t attack Israel in any of the wars of aggression started by the rest of the muslo-nazis in the Mid-East. The Shah was a progressive, human rights activist WRT the troglodytes that run the Iranian “Republic” now.

        • Omar

          You are repeating the same left-wing BS propaganda about America, Iran and the 1953 coup. First of all, Mossadegh was not popularly elected, contrary to propaganda from you leftists. He was appointed prime minister of Iran by that country’s parlament, and the Shah (who was already in power as head of state) approved and ratified the choice. The coup came into motion, not when Mossadegh centralized the oil companies, but when he showed his true Communist colors and got into a power struggle with the Shah and the Iranian parliament, dissolved the very parliament that appointed him prime minister, abolished civil liberties, and jailed politcal prisoners. It is also rtant to know that the CIA did not plan the coup. The anti-Mossadegh coup camewas planned by Britain’s M16 intelligence services, the Shah and the Iranian opposition. The CIA joined the coup efforts when Mossadegh revealed himself to be aCmmunist who was determined to turn Iran into a Communist client state alignedwith the Soviet Union and Communist China (Mossadegh was even quoted by a Time Magazine article from 1952, in which the Communist fanatic stated “Call me dictator”) . It is also important to know that the Ayatollah and his Islamist mullah cronies supported ousting Mossadegh from power. The mullahs viewed Mossadegh as a secular “infidel”. The Islamist mullahs in Iran hate America and the West, not because of the anti-Mossadegh coup, but because they are “infidel nations”. Why don’t you talk about how the Soviet Union and Communist Cuba overthrew the elected prime minister of Grenada, Eric Gairy, in 1979 and replaced him with a Communist puppet named Maurice Bishop? Quit repeating Stalinist/Maoist lies and propaganda and learn from facts.

          • hiernonymous

            Again, you show yourself to be ignorant of how parliamentary democracies work. Mossadegh very much was popularly elected – to parliament, as all MPs are. Prime ministers are not directly elected to the office of prime minister in pure parliamentary systems; they are elected to parliament (either directly to a seat, as in the Westminster system, or as part of a party slate, as in most parliamentary systems). The party with the plurality is then charged with forming a government; the ministers are chosen from among the elected MPs, and that slate of ministers is then usually submitted to the Head of State for approval. Mossadegh was freely elected to parliament, and then became prime minister in the usual democratic fashion. To intimate that Mossadegh was simply an appointee is to either intentionally distort the facts, or to betray an ignorance of the democratic process in a parliamentary system.

            It’s also a distortion to claim that CIA did not plan the coup. Britain was very much the power that wanted Mossadegh out – he had spearheaded the nationalization of Britain’s oil interests in Iran, and Britain had lost its case when it took Iran to the Hague. Britain responded to its loss in the Hague by imposing a blockade on Iran, which led to the deterioration of Iran’s economy. When Mossadegh was willing to ally with (not join, as Omar’s post would indicate) the Tudeh – Iran’s communist party – Britain convinced Dulles to move against him.

            “Quit repeating Stalinist/Maoist lies and propaganda and learn from facts.”

            You keep parroting those lines; you might consider learning from them, instead, and consider that your own position is full of dogma.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Today Fascist Iran is the greatest threat to world peace.

            The sham of its “peaceful” nuclear program viewed in context with Fascist Irans hate rallies prove that Fascist Iran is working to start WW3, and the inevitable destruction of Fascist Iran will, according to the fascist koran thumping ayatollahs, trick the 12th imam to return.

            The FAKE anti-war “progressive”, useful idiots on the left see Fascist Iran as a fellow useful idiot in the left’s goal to destroy the US.

            Now that KGB Putin is at war with islamofascism, things will get dicey for “progressives”. How can they go against their standard bears KGB Putin?

          • hiernonymous

            “The sham of its “peaceful” nuclear program viewed in context with
            Fascist Irans hate rallies prove that Fascist Iran is working to start
            WW3…”

            How does it ‘prove’ any such thing? Again, the combination of a nuclear weapons program and extreme rhetoric is hardly new; we’ve seen it over and over as states acquire nuclear weapons, and they have thus far invariably fallen into line with traditional deterrence once they’ve possessed them.

            You’re going to have to do more than tack on ‘fascist’ in front of every other noun and grunt out stale, borrowed portmanteaux to make your case.

          • defcon 4

            Is “portmanteaux” your new word for the day?

            Iranian leaders threatening the Great and Little Satans certainly doesn’t lend credence to the theory of a peaceful islam0nazi iran.

          • hiernonymous

            “Is “portmanteaux” your new word for the day?”

            I suppose a better question is “are portmanteaux your new substitute for wit?” They seem to be a bit of a crutch for you.

            “Iranian leaders threatening the Great and Little Satans certainly
            doesn’t lend credence to the theory of a peaceful islam0nazi iran.”

            You can’t tell the difference between words and war?

          • defcon 4

            Lot’s of four syllable words that signify nothing. If you had a half a wit, it would be half again the intellect of a room temperature moron.
            Words and war? Iran is training/equipping Hezbollah that has attacked Israel in the past. I’d say that’s justification enough for Israel to go to war w/your islam0fascist state Hamid — I certainly would have. War by proxy, is still war pig.

          • hiernonymous

            “War by proxy, is still war pig.”

            Well, no, war by proxy is not war pig, or even war; it’s support for those carrying out war.

            As for being justification enough for Israel to go to war, that may well be – but that’s a different issue. The question wasn’t whether Israel has a Casus Belli, but whether Iran had started a war, and the answer is no, as much as that seems to upset you.

            “Lot’s of four syllable words that signify nothing.”

            Oddly, there wasn’t a single four-syllable word in my post.

            “If you had a half a wit, it would be half again the intellect of a room temperature moron.”

            And still twice yours, etc, etc. Is this really the best you can manage?

          • Omar

            You just admitted that Mossadegh was aligned with Communists in Iran. The Tudeh was controlled by the Soviet Union and Communist China, as that party helped Mossadegh be appointed prime minister of Iran. The Tudeh also encouraged Mossadegh to overthrow Iran’s government by getting into a power struggle with the Shah and the Iranian parliament, dissolving the parliament itself, suspended civil liberties and jailed political dissidents. The point is that Mossadegh was a Communist puppet and that was why he was overthrown. It had little to do with centralized property

          • hiernonymous

            “You just admitted that Mossadegh was aligned with Communists in Iran.”

            Are you seriously that dense, or are you simply refusing to read my posts as they’re written? How hard was my argument to understand? Mossadegh allied himself with the Fadaiyen when they could do him some good; he did not thereby become an Islamist, and he refused to deliver an Islamist government to them. Similarly, allying – or aligning, if you prefer – with Tudeh does not imply that he had become a communist or that he was prepared to deliver the government into communist hands. Mossadegh’s immediate previous history – and that of Tudeh – strongly suggest that you’ve misidentified the puppets.

            For a similar situation, you might want to look at how Gamal Abd al Nasser manipulated the Ba’athists during the negotiations to create the United Arab Republic. Did Nasser become a Ba’athist by aligning himself with them during the union?

  • defcon 4

    Is Israel today’s Czechoslovakia? Or is that just the hope of the corrupt, amoral, dhimmi appeasers/leaders in the district of corruptistan?

    • logdon

      Israel is a canary in an Islamic coal mine.

      What happens to the canary is the litmus test for us all.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Israel has the Right to Resist Islamofascism – as to all Freedom Loving people..

        • defcon 4

          Amen to that thought…

  • Wolfthatknowsall

    There can be no peace with Iran. The country is set on a course that will inevitably lead to war. One can only hope that the world doesn’t join in, for the fun of it.

    Iran is … unlike Russia, which did not wish to commit suicide … a country that cannot be dealt with rationally, cannot be bargained with, and cannot be contained. When they have their weapons, they will attack. Their peculiar brand of Islam demands this of them, in the eyes of the Iranian Ayatollahs and Imams.

    World stability (there is not and never has been world peace, nor is it looming) demands the destruction of Iran’s ability to produce nuclear weapons. As powerful and skilled as the Israeli military is, they can do nothing but delay Iran’s acquisition of these weapons.

    And this, in a world where the United States has abandoned all pretense of leadership …

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Fascist Iran MUST be destroyed before it can start WW3 on some pretext.

      • Wolfthatknowsall

        Agreed. But their version of Islam gives them the pretext …

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          From what I’ve read there is an opposition in Iran who who hate the ayatollahs and the rest way more than the Shad was hated.

          The opposition, plus Kurds and help from the West can topple the fascist iranian dictatorship.

          • Wolfthatknowsall

            Agree, in return! This will happen when the United States once again has a leader.

          • defcon 4

            Yes, the islam0fascist Kurds are our great hope, just ask any Armenian.

  • BagLady

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/25/341833/iran-mps-draft-60-enrichment-bill/

    What will Netanyahu have to say about this, I wonder.

    • MAHAN>IRAN

      it’s opnion of one of senator . parlimant don’t accept it still . Iran Atomic Organization said we don’t need it and we don’t make it . 60 percent use for fuel of Submarine. it’s not for Bomb . Netanyahu and Israel have more than 10 Atomic bomb !!! where’s United nation ??!!

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        NAKBA>IRAN,

        DEATH to fascist iran!

        LONG LIVE PERSIA!

      • defcon 4

        United nation in back pocket of OIC.

    • defcon 4

      Iranian Presstv, your unbiased source for islam0fascist propaganda.

  • DontMessWithAmerica

    War is life. It is as natural as breathing and eating. Every hour, every
    minute, our bodies are invaded by enemy germs which our antibodies fight off. We cannot survive without conflict. Peace is an ephemeral treat. Nature
    has a surfeit of bullies who want to dominate others in their species or other
    species. The peaceful non-bullies need to always be ready to fight the
    bullies, which is what will keep the bullies from dominating the peaceful ones.
    Israel needs to learn this, too. It is surrounded by bullies who have
    made it clear they want to exterminate Israel. In past conflicts, all of
    which it has won, Israel too often pulled punches and quit before finishing the
    job. America has been at war for several decades but refuses to
    acknowledge this. Islam, the bully, has made it clear that it wants to
    subjugate America. It doesn’t fight with armies. It sends small groups to
    inflict big damage – 9/11, Boston, Ft. Hood, on and on. But mostly it sends
    Trojan horses, with settlers to outbreed and harass Americans, to build mosques and demand rights and diminish the quality of our lives. Obama, keeps saying “We are not at war with Islam.” He is either a total fool or a
    Muslim practicing Taqyiia. In either case, America would be far better
    off without him.

  • Dajjal

    This article reminds me of Godwin’s law.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Goodwin’s Law?

      Google Images “arab n a z i salute”.

  • victoryman

    History repeats. Only the names change.

  • SCREW SOCIALISM

    The source? The inner recesses of baglady’s ginormous azz.

    • hiernonymous

      “The source? The inner recesses of baglady’s ginormous azz.”

      Further proof that having nothing to say won’t stop you from saying it. Bonus points for another pointless portmanteau.

      • defcon 4

        I notice you didn’t cite a source for her rant either Hamid.

        • hiernonymous

          Yes, hence my comment “I can’t speak to BagLady’s source.”

          You really do have trouble understanding what you read, don’t you?