Injustice Anywhere Is a Threat to Justice Everywhere: A Mother’s Plea


F131028YS45-e1383004378639-635x357One oppressively hot August morning, my daughter Malki set off with her best friend Michal to decorate with welcome signs the bedroom of another friend returning from vacation.

Afterward, Malki called me to say that she and Michal were heading to the city center. There she would catch a bus to a summer camp counselors’ meeting in another Jerusalem suburb. “I love you” we told each other – as we usually ended our conversations. It promised to be a day of giving and sharing like every day was for Malki.

Thirteen years later, I still love her and pine for her dreadfully. But now, the only way for me to express that is to seek justice for her murder. 

Because that same hot August morning another young woman, Ahlam Tamimi, set off on a very different type of mission. A twenty year old self-described journalism student, she took two weapons – a 10 kg. bomb and an eager suicide bomber. They proceeded to the Sbarro pizza restaurant which Tamimi had scouted days earlier. Jewish women and children frequent it at lunchtime and Tamimi liked that. As this embodiment of evil would later brag, she hungered for child victims and the more the better.

Malki and Michal had detoured from their intended route to eat there too. They were among the fifteen men, women and children who perished in the explosion.

Today, Malki and Michal lie buried side by side, while their murderer, who smiled happily to learn her tally of dead children, is free and thriving in Jordan. She frequently travels in the Arab world to incite adoring crowds to follow in her footsteps. 

In my country, my husband and I are not welcome to decry this. Parents of murdered children are hailed as heroes when they declare that they want the murderer to go unpunished. Whether for the sake of a prisoner “swap,” to prolong the negotiations with the PA or, as the cliche goes, “to promote peace.” Waiving our right to justice is considered the noble, patriotic thing to do. 

Our quest for justice, for a life sentence for Tamimi – there is no capital punishment here – has invited accusations that we are merely vengeful.

Yet nothing will convince us that freeing murderers is an acceptable, integral part of any peace process.

Malki’s murderer was released in October 2011, the beneficiary of another terrorists-walk-free deal. Some would say we should have learned to live with that reality.

Yet, with each release of terrorist murderers – tried, convicted and unrepentant – my government thrusts a fresh dagger into my heart and conveys the message again and again: “Your child was not really murdered. And your child’s killer does not really deserve to be punished.” 

True, my leaders have been subjected to inordinate pressure to free terrorist murderers from the West, and in particular, from the US. Threats and rewards have been dangled before prime minister Bibi Netanyahu to elicit from him a travesty of justice that they themselves would never consider.

We saw that hypocrisy in sharp relief when terrorists who had not even been tried yet but were strongly suspected of murders of American soldiers were recently released from Afghani prisons. The United States government was outraged. The US embassy criticized the releases as “deeply regrettable,” a move that could lead to further violence in Afghanistan. The US military in Afghanistan warned that “release of these dangerous individuals poses a threat to U.S., Coalition and Afghan National Security Forces, as well as the Afghan population”.

It is a tight spot into which our prime minister has been rammed. Still, that is a lame excuse for releasing murderers imprisoned in Israel. Netanyahu holds the keys to their cells and the decision to use them is his and his alone. For a politician who has cast himself as a tough talker, Netanyahu has, in this instance, chosen the softest route available.

But it was a carefully-made choice.

He is a seasoned and savvy politician who knows his constituency well. In both the left and the right camps, these releases are ‘acceptable’. Terrorists are deemed currency for him to dole out whenever he sees fit. 

Unspecified calculations, secret strategies, and the deepest wisdom have been attributed to Netanyahu by his supporters to rationalize his odious actions. And so it has been left predominantly to the victims themselves to take up the fight. 

It has been a fruitless challenge.

Our prime minister has neither deigned to meet with any of us nor even to respond to our written pleas, although he did say publicly in 2011 that he had sent all of us personal letters of explanation. Surprisingly none of those personal letters ever reached any of us.

The media have played no small part in pressuring Israel. We have all been subjected to sob-stories about ex- prisoners who either maintain their innocence or their rehabilitation to garner favor. Gullible journalists like the New York Times’ Jodi Rudoren are ready willing and able to oblige with sympathetic pieces. Her most recent specimen, “Remaking a Life After Years in an Israeli Prison,” was particularly abhorrent.

Where are the pieces about the terrorists like Ahlam Tamimi who declare “I have no regrets” and who return to terrorism – as nearly 50% of them do? 

Many families of victims are incensed, pained and fearful of the consequences these releases entail. Some of us have noted that the conduct of the PA, of its chief Mahmoud Abbas and of the entire Palestinian people does not justify a gesture of this sort. They have pointed out that the celebrations and glory that are lavished on released murderers contradict their claims of a desire for peace and rejection of terrorism. They remind us of the high rate of recidivism.

But those are not the strongest arguments.

There is really only one constant, immutable, irrefutable flaw in these releases. They are unjust. Plain and simple: undeniably unjust. They isolate one category of murders from the rest and declare them less significant, less tragic, less criminal, less intolerable.

Justice, as we all know, is blind. Or at least it should be. It should be blind to the race, religion, creed and gender of both the murderer and his victim. 

These releases contravene a basic tenet of any democratic state. It is time for Netanyahu to regain his moral compass, turn back the clock, and reinstate the inviolability of Israel’s judiciary.

This time, Netanyahu needs to show some spine and say ‘no’ to the impending prisoner release.

Frimet Roth, a native New Yorker, is a freelance writer in Jerusalem. Her daughter Malki was murdered at the age of 15 in the Sbarro restaurant bombing in 2001. With her husband Arnold, she founded the Malki Foundation (www.malkifoundation.org) in their daughter’s name. It provides concrete support for Israeli families of all faiths who care at home for a special-needs child. The title of this op-ed is derived from Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963.

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  • maximilien321

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    • Jakareh

      He books your tricks on that “home pc”. He gets a cut plus you give him freebies.

      • BagLady

        I see flying pigs.. So sad to see young people having to sink so low to earn a living.

  • Bamaguje

    I’ve said it before, and I’m saying it again – Israel should execute captured terrorists, not jail them. That way the Jewish nation wouldn’t be compelled the murderous bast@rds during ‘peace negotiations.’

    • objectivefactsmatter

      But then the “Palestinians” would get even more ruthless and start killing civilians or…something. What happens if they get really angry?

      I actually said the same thing. They should broadcast the video too.

      • Bamaguje

        Palestinians are already ruthless murderous Jihadists who even celebrate killing of children.
        That they are presently not killing Israelis is because they can’t – by virtue of Israel’s robust and effective security measures – not because the Jewish nation doesn’t execute captured Jihadi terrorists.

      • BagLady

        Ha ha ha. How do you get more ‘ruthless’ than feeding people to wild boars?

        You’re all raving loonies. I should get yourselves outside if I were you. Do a bit of running. Have a look at nature. Get up those Virginian mountains (before they’ve gone) and have a think about your aggression and what it’s doing to your cold heart.

        You have no interest in peace, let’s face it. A little honesty would go a long way towards a solution.

        What silly ‘talks’?

        • objectivefactsmatter

          “Ha ha ha. How do you get more ‘ruthless’ than feeding people to wild boars?”

          Show me who does that.

          “You’re all raving loonies. I should get yourselves outside if I were you. Do a bit of running. Have a look at nature. Get up those Virginian mountains (before they’ve gone) and have a think about your aggression and what it’s doing to your cold heart.”

          Because you personally lack dimension, you project that kind of limitation on those that disagree with your superficial thinking.

          “You have no interest in peace, let’s face it. A little honesty would go a long way towards a solution.”

          You’ve got to be the dumbest regular troll we have here.

          “What silly ‘talks’?”

          Where to begin with ignorant people that imagine themselves as the superior ones? People must want to learn before it can start to happen. That includes you.

        • objectivefactsmatter

          “You have no interest in peace, let’s face it. A little honesty would go a long way towards a solution.”

          You’re idea of peace is to create hostile enclaves for murdering jihadis and then use their poverty as evidence that they are being oppressed. They’re simply destructive people that destroy everything in this world in order to please their god and live according to those values. Go and live in Gaza. Or Syria. I doubt you could even handle Egypt and if you did, you’d blame the quasi-secular military for every hiccup you experienced.

          • BagLady

            I doubt you could even handle Egypt and if you did, you’d blame the quasi-secular military for every hiccup you experienced.

            There was a coup. The Hydra is back with a new head and more lethal than ever. Nothing has changed but the levels of intolerance and violence. Of course I blame the military.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Is that a tree? Where are we? I’m sure that’s a tree though.

    • BagLady

      What, you mean line them up against a wall while the world’s media filmed you doing it?

      • Drakken

        They always have accidents on the battlefield, they fall and shoot themselves 20 times, they ran away and committed suicide, they fell on that mine that was in the way off their fleeing, they fell out the window of a high rise, lots of fun options where muslims are concerned.

        • BagLady

          Oh yes, I remember the ‘official’ version of the killing of a sick old man called bin Laden.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Poor oppressed OBL.

          • BagLady

            Taking a life for the sake of a bit of PR is not the kind of behaviour expected of the President of a so-called advanced democracy.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Yeah, you miss the point.

            Huh. How surprising.

      • Well Done

        Yes. Why not?

        • BagLady

          Why not indeed. The Hague is for ‘others’ to be tried in..

          • reader

            Really? There were more international warrants per mostly unexisting offense issued against Israeli officials than against any official of any other country by a cosmic margine. So, your quest for equity is blatantly backwards, as usual.

          • BagLady

            Warrants mean nothing. Look at past cases.

            Where is Rumsfeld? No-one in history ever had so many warrants against him, I reckon.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Not all “warrants” are equal.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            They Hague is for trials of those subject to their laws.

          • BagLady

            Those lesser mortals who thought they could join the Bilderbergs. Silly people…… Mostly unsophisticated black wannabees who served their purpose at the time but are now getting their comeuppance and rightly so, but who were their partners in crime? They certainly didn’t have the wherewithal nor nous to act alone.

            There is meaning behind the expression ‘WHITE wash.”

          • objectivefactsmatter

            Who are you babbling about as “victims” now?

            The Bilderbergs are just exploiting the communists and dupes. People like you. You denounce them in name even as you help enact their plans. They’re riding the waves of stupidity, not making the waves. They’re just like surfers.

            Do you hate surfers?

    • iluvisrael

      Better to feed them to hungry wild boars. That way their worthless carcasses can serve a useful purpose.

  • Jakareh

    If Israel executed terrorists, Muslimes could not demand their release. Why don’t they? Are they trying to win over European liberals?

    • retired

      Someone said,many years ago,that executing murderers will not stop the murders but it will drastically cut back the number of 2nd offenders!

      • Bamaguje

        That someone was wrong. Executing murderers will deter some murderers.

        • BagLady

          There is no evidence of that at all, which is why most countries dropped the heinous practice, and moved on from ‘an eye for any eye’ mentality.

          • Bamaguje

            Even if it’s true that there’s ‘no evidence’, can we also stop jailing criminals because there’s no evidence imprisonment stops crimes.
            If you take someone’s life without due course, you should be also killed. If not for anything else – payback!!

            Good justice is payback – that’s why we don’t let criminals go free. Society must punish wrongdoers, or we’ll degenerate into murderous anarchy.

          • kikorikid

            I lived,for two years, at an isolated/outstation
            in Papua New Guinea. Even with English as the
            National Language and MUCH Missionary contact,
            their Culture is still classified by Anthropologist
            as Neo-Lithic, New Stone-Age.
            One of the first things I was told about at length
            was the system, “Compensation-Payback”.
            eg: I was told that if I was ever driving in PNG and
            have the misfortune to hit someone with the vehicle
            to NOT stop to render aid but to get away and
            drive to the nearest Police Station. I saw Police Stations
            that could have fit in the perimeter at Khe San.
            The Police would protect me until the “Compensation”
            could be arrived at. OR, I could stop to help
            with First-Aid and get killed on the spot by a relative.
            This information renewed my interest in Cultural
            differences and there were many.
            PAYBACK is a very basic instinct in man. I say
            “instinct” only because I have seen it, Payback,
            in the most Cosmopolitan Cultures as well
            as the most “Primitive” left on the Planet.
            Isreal should excersize Payback at every step.
            A murderous Islamist should not be afforded
            an opportunity to be a recidivist.
            Payback would be an act of self-defence.

          • Bamaguje

            Interesting PNG info.
            I totally agree with you on Israeli payback.

          • BagLady

            I too would face a very dim future should I be involved in an accident regardless my innocence. My foreignness would make me the culprit and force me to abandon all my possessions and flee across the border or face financial ruin.

            However, there are numerous compensations in third world living.

          • kikorikid

            Baggo, I’d bet you were a victim of oppressive
            imperialistic birth circumstances. You poor,poor
            baby. Always a victim of the Capitalist, Imperialist, War
            mongering, Right wing, Bible readin, gun toten,
            is that 1% these days?

          • BagLady

            Not sure how the conversation lead to you to see me as an oppressed victim.

          • kikorikid

            It is the constant whine in your voice
            that gives you away everytime.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            She’s the conscience of the oppressed, but she sees herself in limbo. A “baglady” that *chose* the bag. She’s superior according to leftist definitions. She could lead the USA better than its current POTUS.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            You’re from the “oppressor class” rejecting your “privilege.” You’re a victim of “the system” but you focus on “the others” that didn’t even have the choice to reject “the system” because “the system” rejected (through exploitation or worse) them.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            She used to like it. And then she was “enlightened” about her “privilege” and “false consciousness.”

            She won’t claim to be a communist. But Karl would call her one.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “I too would face a very dim future should I be involved in an accident regardless my innocence. My foreignness would make me the culprit and force me to abandon all my possessions and flee across the border or face financial ruin.”

            Great job at missing the point! You’re certainly an expert at that.

            “However, there are numerous compensations in third world living.”

            Most “third worlders” would rather not be there or at the very least modernize their lives, live longer with less disease and so forth. You’re just too stupid to understand how idiotic this “neo colonialism” rhetoric is.

          • BagLady

            Most “third worlders” would rather not be there or at the very least modernize their lives”

            The grass is always greener for those who are stuck on one side of the fence. I KNOW the streets of London aren’t paved with gold unlike those ‘third worlders’ who cling to the underside of trucks just to get there.

            Living longer doesn’t necessarily make you more healthy. Most Indians are born, live their lives and die, without ever having seen a doctor. If you too lived your life totally without medical intervention, would you live longer than an the average Indian?

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “The grass is always greener for those who are stuck on one side of the fence. I KNOW the streets of London aren’t paved with gold unlike those ‘third worlders’ who cling to the underside of trucks just to get there.”

            Gold? No. But they lead to jobs and welfare offices. So in effect they are better than gold paved roads.

            “Living longer doesn’t necessarily make you more healthy.”

            Um, they’re not mutually exclusive either.

            “Most Indians are born, live their lives and die, without ever having seen a doctor. If you too lived your life totally without medical intervention, would you live longer than an the average Indian?”

            Few Indians would pass up the chance to live in America as citizens. And for sure just about everyone else in the world living in some third location would prefer America to India given a choice between the two.

          • BagLady

            Few Indians would pass up the chance to live in America as citizens. And
            for sure just about everyone else in the world living in some third
            location would prefer America to India given a choice between the two”

            You are right. Most every poor Indian I ever met would give anything, marry anyone, just to get west. Even though they can’t find it on a map they know exactly what they would be ‘entitled to’. The figures make their eyes water.

            However, many third worlders are very happy when they go back home. No, they weren’t happy in England. They were very lonely without an extended family and very cold. They didn’t understand how everyone works such long hours just to go the mall on their day off and spend all the money on unnecessary trivia that they spot and must have.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “You are right. Most every poor Indian I ever met would give anything, marry anyone, just to get west. Even though they can’t find it on a map they know exactly what they would be ‘entitled to’. The figures make their eyes water.”

            They obviously have to have some awareness of the choice.

            “However, many third worlders are very happy when they go back home. No, they weren’t happy in England. They were very lonely without an extended family and very cold. They didn’t understand how everyone works such long hours just to go the mall on their day off and spend all the money on unnecessary trivia that they spot and must have.”

            Sure, that can happen. But any cursory glance at migration statistics and visa applications will tell a different story than the one you peddle.

          • BagLady

            I’m not ‘peddling’ a story. Just giving the basic reason for the desperate surge towards the ‘freebie’ western society by the poor, struggling, down-trodden, oppressed African/Indian/Pakistani/YouNameIt people of the ‘Third world’.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “Just giving the basic reason for the desperate surge towards the ‘freebie’ western society by the poor, struggling, down-trodden, oppressed African/Indian/Pakistani/YouNameIt people of the ‘Third world’.”

            And the basic reason is what?

            “Discussing this phenomenon with those third worlders who manage to legally make it to the west, it would seem that a good education for the children is the primary reason for their self-sacrifice.”

            The word you’re looking for is opportunities.

          • BagLady

            You are right. “Looking for opportunities” sums it up. Sadly, opportunities reduce exponentially the more that make the journey.

            Those that make the waves know it but make hay behind the scenes while the rest sink or swim in the turbulence.

            It takes many decades to bring the world back to any semblance of logical order. Goodness knows what it will look like in 20 years time. 1984?

          • BagLady

            It’s the children you see. The one thing — apart from easy money — is a western education for the children which, inevitably, leads to good jobs and a cushty old age for the parents. At least that’s most Indian’s take on the subject. Not sure about African stimulus.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “This information renewed my interest in Cultural
            differences and there were many.”

            Awesome story. Good thing there is no worldwide religion to spread that culture. Although…

          • BagLady

            How strange that you all fight very loudly for your right to bear arms and yet meekly give up habeas corpus without so much as a squeak.

          • Drakken

            Yet you live in the 3rd world reviling in your hypocrisy, How quaint.

          • BagLady

            Oh yawn Drakken. Your posts become more nonsensical by the day. Go away. Do a bit of research. Write something interesting and then I shall happily argue with you.

          • BagLady

            Apart from the spelling mistake in your one sentence, I am not sure which of my posts gives the impression of hypocracy.

          • reader

            Apparently, you’re not only confused as to where the terms apply, but also what they mean in the first place. Likewise, you seem to enjoy to skate on the thin ice of your shallowness without being embarrassed. I suppose, your uninhibited sense of self-esteem is what Dr. Spok preached as the substitute for a real education. But the problem is that it’s no substitute.

          • BagLady

            I don’t recall Dr Spok bit I do recall a book that took pregnant ladies by storm by a Dr Spock. Probably the first ever book on how to bring up baby and written by a man, no less.

            Did he really preach that high self-esteem was a substitute for a decent education? Seems very illogical to me.

          • reader

            Apart from correcting me on spelling Dr. SpoCk’s name, your point is lost on me. But you can congratulate yourself now on the great job of spelling Dr. SpoCk’s name. Wow! Well done indeed! Just stay away from things you have no clue about – like geo-politics, international law and military strategy, to name a few.

          • BagLady

            You are entitled to your opinion but it takes more than calling yourself Reader to be considered an authority on these subjects. I too have always been a reader but see myself more a student of life than an expert. But then I don’t suffer from the arrogance of those handicapped by ‘knowing it all’.

          • kikorikid

            Yeah, and now we have a huge number of young
            people who have really bad character but
            “feel” really good about themselves. Like yourself, Baggo,
            only you aren’t young.

          • BagLady

            I see your parents failed to teach you respect for others but obviously gave you an unwarranted high opinion of your own character.

          • kikorikid

            It is a “work in progress” thingy.
            You wouldn’t understand.

          • BagLady

            There can be x number of reasons for taking a life and to take the position that it must be an ‘eye for an eye’ situation put’s your law on a level with the desert where men are not known for their high IQs and law is basic and brutal.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “…to take the position that it must be an ‘eye for an eye’ situation…”

            What are the implications of the Biblical doctrine of “an eye for an eye?”

      • MukeNecca

        Quite witty!

    • Habbgun

      Israelis are always trying to win over European liberals. They think Eurolibs are special for some reason.

    • BagLady

      Abandon the rule of law and revert to lynch mobs?

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Sharia Law.

      • Jakareh

        That’s an unwarranted assumption, but then again, you’re an old hand at that. A legal execution, like Britain used to have before the country turned into mush.

        • BagLady

          A Banana Republic lynch mob is not a legal execution.

          You are all so happy to throw off the limitations of your Constitution without realizing it will all come back and bite you in the proverbial ( the other word is not allowed on here, apparently).

          • Jakareh

            You’re confused on two points—actually about everything, but two points specifically related to this conversation. 1. The U.S. Constitution does not ban capital punishment. 2. The U.S. Constitution does not apply to Israel.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        Nobody suggested abandoning rule of law.

  • notme

    This is a travesty of the highest order. How anyone could let these cretins free or how anyone could ask for their freedom is absolutely beside me. There is no justification for it whatsoever. I am truly disgusted with this administration for not only asking but pressuring Israel to make this concession and, though less so, am disgusted with Israel admin for allowing themselves to be pressured to this degree. This is not only a gross miscarriage of justice of the highest order, but it makes Israel and Jews look weak, inferior and ridiculous. This kind of thing, regardless of the pressures Israel was under to accept it, is strategically the wrong decision because it weakens, sets precedence, makes Israel’s position seem unjustified, invites further scorn and will not help but hurt Israel in the long run. I am absolutely appalled and sickened by this event.

    • kikorikid

      DITTO !

    • BagLady

      but it makes Israel and Jews look weak, inferior and ridiculous.

      Perhaps it makes Israel look ‘kind’ in the eyes of the world.

      Does Israel care about the world’s opinion? That’s the question.

      • objectivefactsmatter

        It’s a factor. It can’t be the driving factor when most of the world is irrationally hostile. And you’re a dupe of irrational “world opinion.”

  • PouponMarks

    You can go on and on about the process, how unjust, utilitarian, amoral, etc., etc. What is absolutely stupid is the abolition of the death penalty for the worst crimes. There will be no ransoms, exchanges, blackmail from the Islamists if the killers and sub human garbage are rotting in the ground after being executed.

    Stop the whining and do what needs to be done. An eye for an eye.

  • BagLady

    It stands to reason that murderers must be tried for their crimes and brought to justice. Show me the trials and the democratically, judicially correct procedures that condemned prisoners and I shall agree with you. In the meantime I think of Gitmo and its many inmates who found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    • Jakareh

      A mosque is always the wrong place, no matter what the time.

      • BagLady

        Then let the trials begin. Some of them have had their release papers for years and are still incarcerated there. Hardly a good position to criticise Sharia Law when the US has broken all international laws in its quest for hegemony and megamoney.

        The entire Middle East is on fire and our troops (what’s left of them) are pulling out, leaving entire countries in ruins.

        We are now encouraged to turn our attention to Russia and China. Guam has been promised $15 billion to increase its presence and the knock on effect is rumbling around the whole area. NATO forces are building up on Russia’s borders and creating such tension that it will only take a spark and we’ll be off to World War III.

        It will all depend on which half dozen powerful men sit round the world map drawing lines and divvying up whole lands, just as the previous two wars began.

        • reader

          What exactly
          international laws are you talking about? My educated bet is that you’re
          blubbering nonsense you heard from someone like Chris Matthews spitting out
          with the remnants of peanuts he shoves into his crooked mouth during commercial
          breaks.

          • BagLady

            Dear oh dear. You really do dwell in the dark. Why don’t you go research all the international laws that are being broken instead of pitty-pattying the ball back in my court and leaving me all the work to do? Don’t be so flaccid.

          • reader

            You see, my contention is that – to the extent they even exist – no international laws were being broken. Yours is that there were. Which ones exactly? Your not in the elementary school yard to answer “stupid” to every question you’re being asked.

          • BagLady

            What about Gitmo? How about Haebeas Corpus? ‘unlawful combatant’ is not a term covered by the Geneva Convention which requires a standard of treatment for all prisoners.

            The list is of infringements and downright arrogant dismissal is endless:

            huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/22/drone-strikes-international-law_n_4141183.html?just

          • reader

            Hufpo? Seriously? Why not the X-men or Harry Porter?
            And what about Gitmo? Haebeas does not apply where English Common Law applies, and it certainly does not apply at war. Without even going into the details of Geneva Convention articles, it ONLY applies between SIGNATORY NATIONS. Full stop. Did you EVER read a real book – like something less fictional than Ethel and Ernest?

          • reader

            “Haebeas does not apply where English Common Law applies” I meant to write that it does not apply where the Common Law does not apply, of course. And it’s certainly incompatible with sharia law, which you seem to be embracing by your steadfast support of islamonazis of ll stripes.

          • BagLady

            I see you’re a Rumsfeld fan? The fact that torture never produced any information of worth is irrelevant to you. Hurt the buggers. Mess up their minds. Turn them into Jihadists regardless.

            You are right about International law. It only applies to subjugated nations. Those with the gelt and believe themselves superior are exempt and freely partake in sub-human practices in the name of ‘freedom’.

            How I came to hate that word “freedom’, having heard it spewed from the illiterate lips of your last puppet president.

          • lumiss

            What a brainwashed, sorry, suicidal bugger you are. I do hope you’ll get to experience an uplifting session by a local grooming i-gang.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_execution

            Prisoners of war[edit]

            Major treaties such as the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions, and customary international law from history, protect the rights of captured regular and irregular members of an enemy military, along with civilians from enemy states. Prisoners-of-war (POWs) must be treated in carefully defined ways which definitively ban summary execution, as the Second Additional Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) states:

            “No sentence shall be passed and no penalty shall be executed on a person found guilty of an offence except pursuant to a conviction pronounced by a court offering the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality.” – Second Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) Article 6.2.

            Exceptions to prisoners of war status[edit]

            However, some classes of combatants may not be accorded POW status, though that definition has broadened to cover more classes of combatants over time. In the past, summary execution of pirates, spies, and francs-tireurs[2] have been performed and considered legal under existing international law.[3] Francs-tireurs (a term originating in the Franco-Prussian War) are enemy civilians or militia who continue to fight in territory occupied by a warring party and do not wear military uniforms, and may otherwise be known as guerrillas, partisans, insurgents, etc.

            Though these soldiers could be legally jailed or executed by most armies a century ago, the experience of World War II influenced nations occupied by foreign forces to change the law to protect this group. Many of the post-war victors, such as France, Poland, and the USSR, had the experience of resistance fighters being summarily executed by the Axis if they were captured. The war also influenced them to make sure that commandos and other special forces who were caught deep behind enemy lines would be protected as POWs, rather than summarily executed as Hitler decreed through his 1942 Commando Order.

            According to Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949, irregular forces are entitled to prisoner of war status provided that they are commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry arms openly, and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. If they do not do meet all of these, they may be considered francs-tireurs (in the original sense of “illegal combatant”) and punished as criminals in a military jurisdiction, which may include summary execution.

            Soldiers who are wearing uniforms of the opposing army after the start of combat may be considered illegal combatants and subject to summary execution. Many armies have performed this kind of false flag ruse in the past, including both German and U.S. special forces during World War II. However, if soldiers remove their disguises and put on proper insignia before the start of combat in such an operation, they are considered legal combatants and must be treated as prisoners-of-war if captured. This distinction was settled in the post-WWII trial of Otto Skorzeny, who led Operation Greif, an infiltration mission in which German commandos wore U.S. uniforms to infiltrate U.S. lines but removed them before actual combat.

          • objectivefactsmatter

            “What about Gitmo? How about Haebeas Corpus? ‘unlawful combatant’ is not a term covered by the Geneva Convention which requires a standard of treatment for all prisoners.”

            The Geneva Convention requires compliance with the terms of the agreements. Not covered means the GC has no bearing.

            The entire point of the GC was to create a framework for containment of tactics. You don’t need to extend something unilaterally to people that won’t comply themselves. Although it can be used as a guideline.

            Technically they could be regarded as spies and could be summarily shot. — It was generous to look for other interpretations. — Yet we don’t get a lot of thanks for that.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_execution

            Prisoners of war[edit]

            Major treaties such as the Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions, and customary international law from history, protect the rights of captured regular and irregular members of an enemy military, along with civilians from enemy states. Prisoners-of-war (POWs) must be treated in carefully defined ways which definitively ban summary execution, as the Second Additional Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) states:

            “No sentence shall be passed and no penalty shall be executed on a person found guilty of an offence except pursuant to a conviction pronounced by a court offering the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality.” – Second Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) Article 6.2.

            Exceptions to prisoners of war status[edit]

            However, some classes of combatants may not be accorded POW status, though that definition has broadened to cover more classes of combatants over time. In the past, summary execution of pirates, spies, and francs-tireurs[2] have been performed and considered legal under existing international law.[3] Francs-tireurs (a term originating in the Franco-Prussian War) are enemy civilians or militia who continue to fight in territory occupied by a warring party and do not wear military uniforms, and may otherwise be known as guerrillas, partisans, insurgents, etc.

            Though these soldiers could be legally jailed or executed by most armies a century ago, the experience of World War II influenced nations occupied by foreign forces to change the law to protect this group. Many of the post-war victors, such as France, Poland, and the USSR, had the experience of resistance fighters being summarily executed by the Axis if they were captured. The war also influenced them to make sure that commandos and other special forces who were caught deep behind enemy lines would be protected as POWs, rather than summarily executed as Hitler decreed through his 1942 Commando Order.

            According to Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949, irregular forces are entitled to prisoner of war status provided that they are commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry arms openly, and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. If they do not do meet all of these, they may be considered francs-tireurs (in the original sense of “illegal combatant”) and punished as criminals in a military jurisdiction, which may include summary execution.

            Soldiers who are wearing uniforms of the opposing army after the start of combat may be considered illegal combatants and subject to summary execution. Many armies have performed this kind of false flag ruse in the past, including both German and U.S. special forces during World War II. However, if soldiers remove their disguises and put on proper insignia before the start of combat in such an operation, they are considered legal combatants and must be treated as prisoners-of-war if captured. This distinction was settled in the post-WWII trial of Otto Skorzeny, who led Operation Greif, an infiltration mission in which German commandos wore U.S. uniforms to infiltrate U.S. lines but removed them before actual combat.

  • Myrtle Linder

    Hand for a hand, life for a life, tis only fair. If you choose to take another persons life you should be ready to give your life, whoever you may be, no exceptions. You cannot give life and it is not your right to take life.

    • BagLady

      but yet you would give the State that power which, according to Christians, is the province of God. I thought it was only Jihadists that claim to have been given permission to slaughter their fellow man.

      • cacslewisfan

        If you read the Bible, you will see that God gave the power to take the life of a criminal to the government. Please read the Bible, and when I say “read the Bible” I mean read all of the Bible in a translation that is considered academically rigorous. While you read the Bible, think about what the words and sentences actually mean, not what someone told you they meant. Try imagining you are reading a book that looks interesting, but you have not heard anyone review it, so you have no bias. You don’t have to believe in God, you can just read it like a work of literature. But the point is to read it with an aim for comprehending what is actually written.

        • BagLady

          If I were to do that, I would have no time for reading anything else. My vision would become tunneled and I would be no better than a student in a madrassa.

          With respect, I have been around the block a few times and pondering over what I witness doesn’t require the Book to teach me how to feel about man’s inhumanity to man and its inevitable outcome.

          That is the bit of the Bible I agree with.

          I intend to stick around haunting and being a poltergeist until the Day of Reckoning. That will be a fascinating day. All will be revealed, apparently. Perhaps the whole point is that we — or the chosen few — in our ark, will be whisked off to another planet. Heaven maybe more tangible than we thought.

          • cacslewisfan

            I’m not trying to be insulting to you, but you should really think about how silly the first statement in your comment is. The Bible is not THAT long and it can be essentially understood without excluding everything else.

            I read your comments all over Frontpage, and with respect, your critique of the God of the Bible and Christianity is ridiculous because you don’t know what it says or what we believe. You don’t even know what you agree with in the Bible because you know almost nothing about it.

            Think about why you refuse to read the Bible. I suspect you refuse because you don’t want to be seen with a Bible. You have a prejudice against God and the Bible because all the “really smart, cool, enlightened, truly spiritual people” disapprove and you don’t want anyone to think you are one of those “stupid, unscientific, Bible thumping, narrow minded, hateful, greedy, environmentally abusive” Christians.

            I don’t mean to be harsh, but there is no better way to say this: your comments reveal extreme ignorance, read the Bible. If for no other reason, so you will be one of the rare people who knows what he is talking about.

      • kikorikid

        Hey Baggo, Don’t forget the 200 ,or so, million killed by
        your buddies Stalin,Mao, Pol Pot, Uncle Ho, Fidel & Che,
        et al…Oh, you say Hitler was a _____! He was a
        Totalitarian just as your fine self. Put him on the list

        • BagLady

          Perhaps you could be more courteous when addressing others.

          The fact that I forgot all these poor departed souls has nothing to do with my argument. We have been killing each other since time began, just as our monkey ancestors did.

          I try very hard to speak up for alternative behaviour and solutions to that of our ape g.g.g.g…dads, but I see I am up against a blockhead wall.

          • kikorikid

            “poor departed souls”? They were Murdered you twit!

  • Capt Bob

    There is In Justice right here in America is having 62,000 Homeless American Veterans cold and hungry in the streets of the United States.

    • BagLady

      Hear hear Capt Bob. An absolute disgrace and a shame on all you war mongers who would produce even more of them in your quest for American hegemony. You can’t have it. Accept that fact and stay home. Look after your own. Guard your borders but do try to trade honestly with other countries as a peaceful alternative to under-the-counter business that has always been the norm. Not so many $billions profit on the face of it, but definitely more ‘profitable’ for the world’s population in the long run.

  • Popeye55

    Can’t they insert some sort of tracking device under their skin (while drugged of coarse) and get revenge at a later date?

  • BagLady

    The suicide era was indeed a terrible time and I empathise with the pain of the relatives. However, I can equally empathise with the family of little 10 year old Abi Aramin, who was strolling home from school when she was shot in the head with a rubber bullet by a passing soldier. Her family were paid an undisclosed amount but no-one was ever brought to account.

    Is it FPM’s raison d’etre to stir emotions to the point of irrational hatred? I never saw anything peaceful coming from such emotions.

  • Dumez Gracy

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