A UN Timetable for Israel’s Destruction

rtr4hxonThe Obama administration is shamelessly outsourcing the United States’ historic leadership in facilitating negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel of a workable, secure two-state solution to the United Nations and European governments. In putting its trust in these two centers of anti-Israel sentiment, the Obama administration refuses to say categorically that it would veto a UN Security Council resolution setting some sort of deadline for the creation of a Palestinian state and Israeli withdrawal to the pre-June 1967 lines.

In the words of an unnamed senior U.S. State Department official quoted by Reuters, “These things are all very much in flux, it’s not as if we’re being asked to take a position on any particular Security Council resolution right now. It would be premature for us to discuss documents that are of uncertain status right now.”

Any Security Council resolution the Obama administration would agree to, which imposes pressure only on Israel to make more unilateral concessions for an illusionary “peace,” will serve to legitimize a United Nations timetable for Israel’s surrender to forces that wish to destroy it. The Gaza debacle following Israel’s decision to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2005 and give the Palestinians a chance to build a prototype Palestinian state illustrates the danger Israel would face from being pressured into more withdrawals at this time.

The Palestinian Authority leadership is pressing for action on just such a Security Council resolution as early as this Wednesday, according to a Palestine Liberation Organization official and Palestinian U.N. Ambassador Riyad Mansour. The Palestinian resolution, to be sponsored by Jordan (a non-permanent member of the Security Council), would reportedly set a two year deadline for complete Israeli withdrawal from all “occupied” territories, although Jordan’s UN ambassador told reporters it was news to her that any action to vote on the resolution would be taken as soon as the Palestinians are demanding. There is some speculation amongst UN insiders that a vote on a Palestinian resolution could be put off until early in the new year. The Security Council makeup will then be even more inclined towards the Palestinian position, because Malaysia will be replacing South Korea as a non-permanent member of the Security Council.

The Palestinians are finding a very receptive audience in Europe for their use of the United Nations to sidestep direct negotiations with Israel. As the tide of anti-Semitism is rising to the surface and spreading once again throughout Europe, a number of European countries’ parliaments have adopted non-binding resolutions calling upon their respective governments to recognize a Palestinian state. Sweden went further with official recognition of a state of Palestine. France, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, is taking the lead in crafting a European version of a Palestinian state resolution. The idea reportedly would be to set out an expectation for a final peace agreement to achieve a two-state solution within two years. During the two year interval, the United Nations might accord full UN membership rights to an officially recognized Palestinian state. The text is still a subject of consultations in European capitals, according to the United Kingdom’s UN Ambassador Lyall Grant.

The Obama administration, which would like nothing better than to see its nemesis Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defeated in the upcoming March 2015 Israeli elections, is calibrating a position that appears intended to send a pointed message to the Israeli electorate. This message is not to count on the administration standing steadfastly with Israel on sensitive security concerns if Prime Minister Netanyahu is re-elected. The Obama administration is willing to consider a “compromise” Security Council resolution to pressure Israel into resuming negotiations against a backdrop of a framework withdrawal timetable, so that the administration can say it did all it can to avoid an immediate two year deadline and thereby not have to use its veto power to “protect” Israel.

Thus, Secretary of State John Kerry is meeting early this week with European foreign ministers, Arab League officials, and Israeli and Palestinian officials to “hear from and engage with other stakeholders…and to the best of our ability work toward a common path forward,” according to a senior State Department official.

Israeli civilians under relentless attack by Palestinian jihadists are the main “stakeholders” whom the United States should be worried about. If there is to be a “common path forward” to peace, it requires Palestinian negotiating partners who are willing to publicly give up their claim to a right of return of millions of so-called Palestinian refugees to pre-June 1967 Israeli cities and towns, and who recognize Israel’s right to self-determination as a Jewish state that can co-exist securely side by side with a peaceful Palestinian state. There has been no such partner to engage in genuine negotiations for more than six decades. There remains no such partner today, nor is there likely to be one in the foreseeable future.

Hamas has made clear its intention time again, by word and deed, to destroy the state of Israel and kill as many Jews as possible. Following, for example, are excerpts from an interview with Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on May 11, 2011 (courtesy of MEMRI):

The [Jews] are brought in droves to Palestine so that the Palestinians – and the Islamic nation behind them – will have the honor of annihilating the evil of this gang…All the predators, all the birds of prey, all the dangerous reptiles and insects, and all the lethal bacteria are far less dangerous than the Jews…When Palestine is liberated and its people return to it, and the entire region, with the grace of Allah, will have turned into the United States of Islam, the land of Palestine will become the capital of the Islamic Caliphate, and all these countries will turn into states within the Caliphate.

Hamas’s barrage of rocket attacks launched from Gaza against Israeli civilians since Hamas took control of Gaza in 2007 attests to its deadly intentions. Just last Sunday, Hamas marked its 27th anniversary by parading 2,000 of its armed fighters and truck-mounted rockets. A senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya said: ‘This illusion called Israel will be removed.”

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has thrown in his lot with Hamas in forming a so-called “unity reconciliation” government and has himself incited sectarian violence in and around Jerusalem with incendiary rhetoric.  But even Abbas has expressed frustration with what he called Hamas’s continued “shadow government… running the territory” in Gaza on its own.

In the real world, which is alien to the United Nations, the Arab world, European governments and the Obama administration, simply saying something is so doesn’t make it so. Diplomatic recognition of a Palestinian state does not change the reality on the ground. Nor does a pie-in-the-sky declaration of a “unity” or “reconciliation” Palestinian government that exists only on paper. For example, in delivering his regular briefing to the Security Council on the situation in the Middle East, Robert Serry, the UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, admitted to Security Council members on December 15th the lack of a functioning Palestinian reconciliation unity government to replace Hamas’s governance in Gaza. He said that delivery of thousands of tons of construction materials into Gaza is being permitted by Israel under the temporary Gaza Reconstruction Mechanism agreed upon by Israel, the so-called Palestinian Government of National Consensus and the UN, even though the “Government of National Consensus in Gaza has still not taken up its rightful governance and security function” that is a critical part of the arrangement.

The Palestinians’ own internal power struggle between Hamas, which governs Gaza, and the Palestinian Authority, which currently dominates the West Bank, means that there is no real unified state government apparatus. Hamas won’t give up its military control in Gaza and is seeking to expand its influence in the West Bank at the Palestinian Authority’s expense. There can be no real foundation for a workable Palestinian state under international law when there is no single governing authority in a position to effectively exert sovereign control over all of a putative Palestinian state’s territory and people. Nor can there be a real state under international law that does not have the capacity to ensure compliance with any bilateral or international agreements such a state may enter into in the future.

No matter what kind of “common path” Secretary of State Kerry thinks he can achieve with the Palestinians and their Arab and European supporters on a Security Council timetable resolution, Israel must reject the path of forced withdrawal that could lead to its own destruction. As Prime Minister Netanyahu said during the regular Israeli cabinet meeting on Sunday, a UN Security Council-imposed deadline for Israeli withdrawal to the pre-June 1967 lines would bring “Islamic extremists to the suburbs of Tel Aviv and to the heart of Jerusalem. We will not allow this. We will rebuff this forcefully and responsibly. Let there be no doubt, this will be rejected.”

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  • Hank Rearden

    What is it with the 1967 borders? They have been overtaken by events. The 1967 borders were around for 20 years. There was no offer by the Arab League at that time of a permanent settlement with Israel. The PLO was created in 1964 so, again, there was no acceptance of the 1967 borders when they were in force.

    In 1967, Israel was attacked within those borders. Nasser explicitly said the purpose of the war was to drive the Jews into the sea.

    That turned out to be an unwise idea. But it also liquidated the 1967 borders. They are as irrelevant now as the borders of Babylonia.

    It is one of the mysteries of the universe why the Europeans want to turn out the Jews and bring in the Muslims. That does not seem to be a very good exchange, but Germany is in the middle of doing that right now, as is France.

    When Jordan and Egypt were in charge of what is now the West Bank and Gaza, nobody ever petitioned them for an independent state of Palestine. Why has that now become such a big issue? Israel gave back Sinai, It gave back Gaza. It can’t give back Judea and Samaria until there is peace in the hearts of the Palis.

    Which hasn’t happened yet. They are Muslims in thrall to a death cult founded by a psychopath and worshipping a pagan moon god in the process glorifying the most depraved of human instincts. How can you negotiate with that?

  • http://gerardjackson.com/ gerard jackson

    Obama won’t be satisfied until Israel finally succumbs to the Muslims’ final solution.

    • wildjew

      There is a God in Israel.

      • carpe diem 36

        also a very good and effective army.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          G-d helps those who help themselves.

          • Lea

            No, God says the opposite. Rely and rest in me, and I will guide you into your victory. There no such verse in the scriptures.

      • billobillo54

        My dear wild Jew Brother: Pslam 2.

      • Lightbringer

        That there is. But let’s remember that God will only protect and fight for Israel when we deserve it. Which means that we need to live Godly, Torah-centered lives as an adjunct to maintaining military preparedness.

        • Lea

          Repentance and a revelation from Jesus Christ, the Messiah of Israel, is how it will turn.

    • cree

      Then may it be that Obama forever remains unsatisfied. Another attempt of a final solution, and only if successful, is the only way the Israeli state would succumb. A next attempt, if Israel goes down, they will take their enemies with them.

      • Ellen_L

        Along with the only reliable sources of electricity, clean water on tap, medical facilities, modern manufacturing, etc. This proposed state can’t even run a decent police to stop murderous attacks. And they want to be in charge of everything. Could be the fastest way to destroy them is to let them try, but that has too many bad effects on both Israel and the rest of the world. Perhaps a good beginning would be to let them finance themselves. Cut off Israeli, US and other funding and see how they fare.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Better that Israels enemies go down and Israel lives and thrives.

        See the failing EU, failing Eurabia, failing Islamist entities.

        • cree

          My meaning was of a worst case scenario facilitated by Obama siding with our enemies against Israel by the already existing abandonment of her as an ally. Who other than the US would be on Israel’s side with the strength she would need to repel all those who are against her?

          If Israel becomes overwhelmed with forces against her even as capable as she is and intends to be, she essentially is now all alone and her enemies know it and will plan accordingly, as in Iran.

          Never again means mutually assured destruction; and, there will be a remnant.

    • carpe diem 36

      The he!!! with him. He is on the way out and he has been beaten as the “leader of the free world” which he never was, he is nothing but scaercrow and a Muslim sympathizer, which is not only bad for Israel but bad for America as we see.

      • Lea

        He is in the process of doing as much damage as possible for he leaves. Don’t be surprised if the Ukraine thing turns into a war between America and Russia before the term is out.

  • steveafrikaner

    Smoke and mirrors – The destruction of Israel is the agenda – nothing more, and nothing less.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      It’s not just Israel regressive progressives plot to destroy, it has been wildly successful in Eurabia – nee Europe.

      But Israel has a better immune system than socialist appeasing Eurabia.

      • carpe diem 36

        Another reason is that the Jews are smarter, and the proof is that they survived 2000 years of exile, murder, Porgroms and the Holocaust and they have a great army too.

  • BMS

    Our Muslim President Obama has made it clear since the beginning of his presidency that he has nothing but contempt for the Jewish State. All his actions and deeds support an agenda that will destroy Israel. Why oh why do bleeding heart liberal Democratic Jews and the Jewish Hollywood elite continue to support this man?

    • Michael Garfinkel

      To ask the question is to answer it.

      • wildjew

        Here, sign up with “Intense Debate” (if you are not already signed up) and ask them as I do.

        http://forward.com/

  • callmeisaac

    Bibi shouldn’t play ball with them. Instead he should have stayed in Israel and drawn up a list of retaliatory actions.

    • Ellen_L

      Perhaps he has. He has been a gentleman with them; something the Obama administration has never learned to do. Mr Netanyahu has more American traditional ideas and education than Mr Obama ever had.

  • WillielomanIII

    There are no 1967 borders. Legally that is a myth. The only borders that matter are the borders that come from the Torah. The shame is that the Jewish government of Israel does not have the courage to speak the truth. The Jews are the indigenous people of Israel and have been a nation in Israel for over 3000 years. No matter what the racist, terrorist supporting UN says, the government of Israel should tell them to put their resolutions where the sun does not shine

    • Vinegar Hill

      You would be laughed out of any court of law if you used your religious argument to defend the Jewish claim that the land belongs to them!

      • RAM500

        God runs the world.

        • Lea

          Jesus Christ is the King.

      • John Pepin

        Isn’t that exactly what the argument is about? The Bible, Torah and Koran say Israel is the land of the Jews. But the Jews were evicted by Claudius, then the land was conquered by Muslims in the dark ages… and so now that the Jews have returned, (as to Koran says they should) the Muslims are incensed to have lost that land. The whole fight is ABOUT religion. To deny that is to deny the elephant in the room.

        • Ellen_L

          That is why religion must not be the deciding factor. History counts but revelation does not. As for religion, it is more a fight about culture than theology. Notice which culture is more modern and successful, especially, successful in filling the everyday needs and desires of real people. The Palestinian people would be much better off trading with Israel than fighting it. They could have a thriving freer life if it weren’t for their leaders who funnel money into their own pockets and weapons rather than the schools and other intended purposes and arrange for the people to be shields and puppets for their hatred of a culture they can’t equal and refuse to learn from.

          • John Pepin

            Have to agree with the truth… Thanks Ellen for the insightful comment.

            Sadly, the Palestinian’s religion refuses to allow it… If they did, other local nations would come down hard on the Palestinians… like they did before.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Stop with your arrogance and your efforts to dehumanise the Palestinian people.

          • Ellen_L

            Is it dehumanizing to insist that they make their own way in the world and stop killing and threatening others? If anyone is dehumanizing the Palestinians it is NOT the Israelis but their own leaders. You Vinegar are a troll – no one could be that stupid, so good bye – stew in your own sour juice.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Your pal-e-swinians and their fellow islamofascisgts dehumanize themselves by their actions.

            See ISIS/Syria where 200,000 have died – Arabs killing Arabs.

        • Vinegar Hill

          The conflict is concerned with land theft by the Zionists/Jews. As it developed it became clouded in religious elements but that does not deter from an original and one of the major causes of the conflict…. land.

          • John Pepin

            Vinegar, You use the derogatory term zionists which flags you as an anti Semite…

            So, your position is that the land was stolen and therefore must be given back to those whom it was stolen from, Vinegar? Then to be consistent the Muslims must give back all the land they conquered too right? Wasn’t the land of Israel stolen from the Jews originally? By your own logic they should get it back then. What about the US? What about Armenia? What about the Crimea? Your argument goes very far out on a slippery slope.

            The human hearted way to look at it is let the people who live there now… vote. Those who left should be accepted into the countries they went to. Not put in modern concentration camps to nurture genocidal hatred. Love thy neighbor.

          • Lea

            zionist is not a derogatory term, it has merely been taken and used by the muslims as a label and license to spew their racist hatred for jews and christians. Zion is a purely biblical concept. The muslims however would like us to believe it is another word for the illuminati.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jews founded and own Jerusalem. You can’t steal what belongs to you.

            Stick your reprehensibly islamofascist propaganda where the Sun don’t shine.

          • Americana

            Actually, the Jews weren’t the ones who originally founded Jerusalem. It was a city that like many ancient cities has its origins owed to many different civilizations. The fact the Jews laid claim to Jerusalem at a certain point in time as of particular significance to the Jewish people likely has something owed to the unifying monarchy of King David. But the actual reality is steeped in mystery and it may never be known or at least it won’t be known until far more archaeological work is undertaken. But let’s not ignore the accretionary historical reality of just how many ancient civilizations lived in that location.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Bottom line is that Jews were the founders of Jerusalem – NOT Imperialist Islam/Muslims.

          • Americana

            You must be forgetting all about the Bronze Age civilizations that lived in the region…?? Jerusalem is an ACCRETIONARY CITY that’s been there since time immemorial and which owes its existence to many different waves of humans of different tribes and nationalities. Getting to the bottom of who founded Jerusalem is possibly something the Israelis don’t want to do especially given your claim that the Jews founded Jerusalem and that’s the basis of their continuing claim to Jerusalem in its entirety. Certainly Jerusalem was in use by other civilizations prior to the arrival of the Jews even if it was a small town at the time. As for saying the Muslims didn’t found Jerusalem, that’s true but it was originally founded (i.e., the area was inhabited by other cultures) by other peoples than the Jewish tribes. The Jews only arrived and claimed the city thousands of years after its first formal incarnation as an inhabited tel.

            http://www.bu.edu/anep/MB.html

            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/David.html

            Jerusalem eventually assumed its particular iconic status because of its affiliation w/the unified Jewish kingdoms as the seat of governance of King David but it doesn’t change the fact the entire region was conquered MULTIPLE TIMES by MULTIPLE DIFFERENT OUTSIDE NATIONS and the Jewish tribes were dispersed both of their own volition and were dispersed as slaves as was the practice of the time as well as fragments of the tribes remaining in situ. The fact the Jewish people would like to regain their ancient Jewish kingdoms is one thing, but to displace all the Palestinian families who’ve lived there for millennia because their misfortune is to be living there at a time when the Israelis want to reinvent their ancient nation? That won’t happen.

          • Americana

            No, the Jews came along a few thousand years after Jerusalem was founded and simply added the Jewish historical layers to the Bronze Age cultures that had already settled there. It might not have been the Jerusalem we all now think of as the fount of three religions when it was first founded but it was also not founded in its first incarnations by Jews.

          • Ellen_L

            Do you say the same of Rome? any of the cities in any other country?

          • Americana

            Most major cities have had previous layers of civilization because there were geographic/topographic features that made that particular location desirable for the nexus of larger towns and greater concentrations of people. But this idea that one pursues the archaeological record and then stops the archaeological record where you want it to stop is simply not how archaeology is used to explain facts about human occupation.

          • Lea

            That is untrue since there is abundant evidence that the conflict had been ongoing and that for the 100 years before israel was re-established, the muslims had been carrying out raids on peoples living in palestine. It is also known that due to the fact jewish girls were kidnapped and debreasted and converted, gave birth to the families living in palestine. DNA shows that the muslims in palestine are descendants of Jews. The actual and historical injustice here that must be rectified is the theft and plunder of the Jews and Christians, who lived in this land peacefully before the muslims invaded and illegally occupied the Holy Land.

          • Americana

            Kidnapped and de-breasted formerly Jewish girls being forced to give birth to Palestinian Arab children? Now THAT would be a sight to see… Why aren’t there enormous numbers of stories about these de-breasted, kidnapped Jewish girls who’ve forgotten that they were Jewish? Why aren’t they taking advantage of the presence of journalists to contact them and get themselves free of their captors? Why aren’t they showing off their chests in photographs?

            The fact there HAS BEEN AND IS MISCEGENATION of these two nation’s peoples doesn’t mean any nation has kidnapped the other’s girls en masse and used them to propagate their own people rather than their own flesh and blood. There are mixed-nationality couples who are getting married today whose children will reflect their mixed national origin. That’s where previous mixed blood children have come from along w/the other, terrible form of miscegenation — rapes.

        • Americana

          The ancient Jewish tribes were rendered a fragmented demographic long before the Roman conquering of the region. The Jewish kingdoms were supplanted by a multitude of cultures well before the Romans arrived. Attributing the final conquering by the Roman Empire as being the remaining last gasp of the Jewish kingdoms isn’t terribly accurate.

          • John Pepin

            So your saying Claudius’ dispersion of the Jews would have happened regardless?

          • Americana

            I’m saying that the Emperor Claudius was not the only conqueror of the Jews, he was just pretty much the last one. The ancient Jewish tribes had been conquered by many different civilizations over their history. So, it wasn’t unexpected that when they tried to reconstitute themselves as a political entity and once again assume hegemony in the area by rebelling against Rome, it was a foregone conclusion what Emperor Claudius’ reaction would be. The fact there were all sorts of underlying elements to the conflict, including the extremely deadly twins of religiosity and nationalism, fueling the rebellion likely didn’t help their cause w/Rome.

            http://josephus.org/causesOfWar.htm

          • Ellen_L

            Perhaps someone could fill in the history, but Chanukah is a good time to recall that there was a resurgence of the Hebrew kingdom after the Alexander the Great’s heirs got through spreading and then corrupting the Greek culture all over the area. The Romans came a bit later. But there was the dynasty of Jewish kings between. Was Herod the last of those? Though he was not by blood only by political means kinda like Cleopatra was Greek not Egyptian – the Romans were good at setting up puppet governors.

            In any case, Islam had not been started till a few centuries later. Jerusalem has the marks of all the cultures that influenced it. It has both a noble and a bloody history. Quite human. Yet, Jews have held it as a holy place for thousands of years. Jews have learned painfully to respect the humanity of even their enemies and with the aid of the Talmud writers and many modern thinkers to become enlightened.

            So, who do you think will better care for the historical artifacts (including the Christian ones and even the Muslim ones) and people of Jerusalem – the Israelis with modern political rights for everyone and a respect for humanity (even enemy wounded are treated in Israeli hospitals which also have all ethnicities as doctors and medical workers as are patients from the West Bank and Gaza) or those who want to eliminate all Jews and then Christians from the area, use the people of Gaza as human shields, brag how they still want to destroy Israel (and the rest of the west) and can’t seem to establish their own utility companies? The Palestinians couldn’t hold out against ISIS or other invaders either, they would lose whatever state they tried to set up. Israel is their best hope of defense as well as water, medicine, food, etc.

            Why can’t they just allow Israel to exist in peace – it is not taking up much room? And Israel has many Arab and other citizens. It is not a theocracy. It is a homeland for the Jews because there is not another place to stand up for Jews. I wish it were not necessary but it is, especially in an area with Islamic states that are theocracies.

          • Americana

            Ellen, I wish the Israelis were not facing what they are facing but the situation is what it is. Pretending the Palestinians are not a nation and that they can simply be moved off that land which has hundreds of years of familial ownership is not right and it’s not the right of Israel to pretend that this is the ideal solution to the issues the Palestinians present. The Palestinians should not be dehumanized to the extent they are being dehumanized in an attempt to continue to solidify the legitimacy of Israeli primacy over the area. Much as I respect the Israeli national identity w/the region, I don’t hold the same view of the religious components involved w/the promises stemming w/the rebuilding of the Third Temple and so on. All such thoughts are wishful, Messianic thinking to me and are not what diplomacy or rational thought should be based on.

            If it were me making the decisions, I wouldn’t allow any religion to hold sway over the holy sites. If a religion is truly interested in proselytizing and introducing its precepts to all mankind, it would offer its places of worship to all. Unfortunately, at least part of the region is overrun by many extremist Muslims who do not favor that view and/or who bloodily insist on forced conversions. (The CRAZINESS OF FORCED CONVERSIONS or forced conversions and then EXECUTIONS? These Muslims who are pushing this Caliphate have lots to answer for viz their insanity and inhumanity.) A long time ago, I entered lots of mosques in the region as a kaffir but a kaffir who observed all the Muslim proprieties. But not all Palestinians are so dedicated to the extinguishing of Israel that they don’t want to settle for peace. Israel has one last chance to opt for peace and either Israel deals w/the Palestinians who want peace and forgets about dealing w/the Palestinians who can only conceive of war or she commits to war. Israel is presently committed to all-out war by pushing “The Israel Solution.” God help them if that’s their choice.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        And the koran is no valid claim for the Arab theft of Jewish land – like the Muslim claim that their prophet mohammed flew to paradise on the back of a horse from Jerusalem.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Actually *Jerusalem* is not mentioned even once in the koran. Only a vague reference to some “farthest mosque”.

        • Lea

          Aisha said that mahomet never left his bed when he had his “visions”.

    • Lightbringer

      Now, that is a great post. You are absolutely correct.

  • Well Done

    No agreement with the “palestinians” is worth the time it takes to print it. They don’t want peace. They want the tiny sliver of land Israel occupies because they consider it “moslem land”(TM). Why? They think they stole it fair and square, and “the joos” have no right to take it back just because it’s theirs legally and morally. Israel needs to ship out ALL non-Israeli Arabs to whatever moslem backwater will take them. In fact, all Western countries need to ship their moslem invaders back to any moslem country. There are millions of square miles of open land in these moslem countries. They only come to our countries to soak up our benefits and rise up against is whey they’re ready.

    • Vinegar Hill

      What basis do you use to claim that the Jews have a legal and moral right to the land of Palestine?

      • JayWye

        several THOUSAND years of Jewish existence there. the whole land is rife with Jewish artifacts and ancient constructions.
        the Arabs are the invaders. Jews have lived there continuously since they migrated from Egypt.

        further,the “Palestinians” ABANDONED their lands on the order of the Arab leaders,and then chose to not return once the war ended,again on the order of Arab leaders. They made themselves “refugees”.
        Lastly,there were NO “Palestinians” until 1967. it’s a made-up creation. Before that,they were Jordanians or Egyptians. Both of those nations LOST those lands in the wars. and when they signed peace treaties with Israel,they REFUSED the return of those lands.

        • SoCalMike

          Don’t bother wasting too many words on Vinegar Hill.
          Her brainwash is deep rooted and childlike.

      • SoCalMike

        Read Dershowitz The Case for Israel and Joan Peters From Time Immemorial.

        • Vinegar Hill

          Why don’t you read some of the works written by Herodotus.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Why don’t you read some of the works written by Winston Churchill – the Greatest man of the 20th century.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        The Jews were in the Land of Israel BEFORE muhammed came on the scene, conflating the Bible with muhammed pagan roots.

        Your Pal-e-SWINIANS have the Right of Nakba. Eternal Nakba.

      • bigjulie

        How about, the Jews were attacked, retaliated, kicked serious a$$ and took the land the “old-fashioned” way…by military conquest! The Jews are making good use of the land, allow Arabs to be citizens of Israel and allow Arabs to participate in the prosperity that all of them are creating through hard work.
        There is no “peaceful solution” in dealing with Muslims! Negotiations are a waste of time because one is not dealing with rational people! Lying is a part of their religion and is perfectly permissible if it furthers Islam’s interests.
        There is only one solution, a one-state solution. Israel is that state! If Muslims are allowed to conquer, there will be 1. The destruction of the Jews, 2. The destruction of everything they have built and worked for. 3. Horrendous conflict for time immemorial as the Muslims settle their own religious scores among themselves and proceed with their goal of a world-wide caliphate.
        Screw what the rest of the world wants! With Muslims it is only what Muslims want! The solution is culinary in nature…”well done”! Either the rest of the world by Muslims, or Muslims by the rest of the world. All “peace treaties” are nothing more than stepping stones to a “final solution” and collective minds will have to be made up soon!!

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          bigjulie AKBAR!

        • Vinegar Hill

          You know as well as I do that the land was stolen from the Palestinians and your buddy D B-G fully realised this. The US president at that time also knew that what was going to happen as a result of the partition was immoral and against the UN Charter.
          Like you I too would accept a one state solution but only if Israel were to become a democratic state and respected international law.

          • bigjulie

            I have looked in vain for a country called “Palestine” and cannot find it, and I have a lot of maps! Where are the “Palestinians” from, if there is no country called “Palestine”? Are you accusing the Jews of “vapor” theft? How does one steal a country that does not exist? I think you are manifesting a serious ahhh, “constipation” problem.
            Try Ex-Lax.

          • Ellen_L

            Back before WW2 the Jews in the area were called Palestinian. If I recall correctly, the name was given by the Romans after they destroyed Judea and the Temple. In any case the current crop of Arabs there stole the name as they intend to steal the land.
            One thing that has never made sense to me is why they resent such a small strip of land being owned by people who have so obviously improved it and the lives of those they trade with. Of course, I see that it is being used as a scape goat and an excuse for power hungry leaders to enslave and harm their followers. What makes no sense is why they have any followers.

          • Vinegar Hill

            “The Jews in the area were called Palestinian” but you forgot to state that the Arabs living there were also called Palestinians.
            You need to examine the population distribution and districts of mandated Palestine and the allocations offered to the Zionists/Jews and then you will realise why the plan was totally immoral and, when other factors are considered, was bound to lead to conflict.

          • Ellen_L

            Good grief, when splitting up the Ottoman Empire Europe gave most of the land to the Arabs then took over half of the Jewish mandate and made Jordan – another Arab nation, and now the Arabs want the final small strip of land that the Jews of the time accepted so there would be somewhere on this earth where the disinherited European Jews could feel safe. Then Jewish communities that had been in various Middle Eastern countries for hundreds or even thousands of years were uprooted and evicted to the new Israel. And you think Zionism is immoral! I suppose when the Caliphate claims New York that will be ok with you too. These crazies do not like Christians or even secularists any better than the Jews. America is their big Satan.
            By the way, these same people can’t support themselves and get utilities and goods from those they want to destroy!
            Yeah, kinda lost my temper with you. I will have to remember to not respond to you in the future.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Muhammed is the prophet of the weak Satan known as Fascist Iran.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Israel was given land by the UN, but your Imperialist Arab entities rejected the UN mandate, tried to take it all, but shockingly, were defeated by the Jews of Israel.

            The genocidal Arab was thwarted.

            We see Arab/Muslim barbarity in ISIS/Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan, Nigeria, Fascist Iran, Libya, Gaza, Boston, New York City, Paris, London..

          • Vinegar Hill

            What UN mandate?

          • Vinegar Hill

            Read what I wrote. I assume you are getting very agitated and this blurrs your inability to read carefully.

          • bigjulie

            Not agitated at all! I deal with trolls on this web regularly.

          • bigjulie

            I have no Idea what my grade school friend, Darryl Buddon-Glazer has to do with the argument. How did you find out his name? I have not seen him in 5 decades! What does he have to do with what you are trying to expound on?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Muslim theft of Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist land is NOT accepted by Jews, Hindus, Buddhists or Christians.

            Considering that Arabs/Muslims can not get along with fellow Arabs/Muslims, then blaming others for Arab/Muslim barbarity is dishonest.

    • Ellen_L

      How do you weed out the trouble makers from those who are trying to avoid them? Stop treating all Muslims as terrorists, many are trying to get away from the terrorists in their midst who want to kill them as well as us.
      I agree that exile is the best answer but first you have to know who to exile and who should stay.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        The majority good Muslims can’t defeat their troublesome minority?

        Islam has a BIG problem. A PR problem that can’t be swept away.

        See 9/11.

    • Vinegar Hill

      It is not “legally and morally” theirs. You have demonstrated this to be true with your inability to reply to my original comment.

  • sundance69

    If Israel falls the whole world will not be far behind………………..

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      When Eurabia falls, the US should erect barriers to prevent Eurotrash Socialist rats from bringing the disease they infected Europe with here.

      Socialism, is an Opportunistic Infection – seeking out new hosts to suvert, overwhelm and kill.

      • cajunwarthog

        That “trash” you speak of is already embedded in our “elected”.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Creeping socialism.

          Today we see obama throwing a lifeline to the Castro family dictatorship.

  • Hard Little Machine

    Well then there’s quite a few ways to passive aggressively give them what they demand. Day one, announce a timetable through which Israel will cut all infrastructure with Arabs; water, sewer, gas, electricity, phone, etc. After all Israel provides those services effectively for free since the PLO and Gaza doesn’t pay their bills. Second announce a timetable through which Israel will permanently close all border crossings with Gaza. Gaza can cope with whatever relationship they have with Egypt. That’s actually the nature of different countries just like Spain refused to allow any traffic in or out of Gibraltar for 200 years. Figure it out, Gaza people. Third, grant Gaza the same international waters distance as any other country but the sea border between the two countries is absolute and will be considered a war zone. Fourth acts of violence from Gaza and/or the PLO are acts of war. Fifth all terrorists currently in prison have two options – life imprisonment with no special treatment or lifelong exile to any EU country except Cyprus or Greece. The EU can paper it over with some kind of legal fiction about refugees or immigrants or who cares. Next, end all all work permits with ‘palestinian’ Arabs in Yesha completely. Require all Israeli businesses in Yesha to employ Israeli citizens only.

    • Ellen_L

      Sounds like a plan for a good beginning of the lessons a new state must learn. Perhaps even the threat would be enough to stop the nonsense and start civilizing the crazies. Yet there are some who are in it for the sake of destruction of achievements they cannot equal – they unfortunately may not stop until they force others to kill them in self defense.

      • Hard Little Machine

        Maybe so but at least with a complete separation the logistics of allowing the Arabs to kill Jews and then cry victim would be over. You see, the plan for this mythical Muslim state called ‘palestine’ is neither fish nor fowl. They want complete political autonomy over an area they and they alone deem are the borders of their nation, subject to change daily and all the laws and people of a completely different country, Israel are also subject to their whim while at the same time the Jews have to literally provide every service, every good, every product to them, for free. Forever. What we have is a weird kind of inverted slavery for the Jews now. They have to serve their brutal insane masters or be the victims of death and terror. In fact the idea that the Arabs don’t and won’t want to provide anything for themselves gives them and their EU/UN partners another option: a complete off the shelf protectorate owned and operated by the EU/UN in total. An absolute end to end welfare state where the Arabs themselves do nothing but stay home and make more Arabs and everything, from picking up the garbage to keeping the lights on is 100% staffed and operated by the EU/UN including however many 10′s of thousands of currently unemployed Europeans can be sent over there to do those jobs. It’s win win. The Europeans finally get jobs and the Arabs get to be infantilized and waited on hand and foot for life, forever. I doubt it would cost more than 20 or 30 billion Euros a year and collectively the size of the entire EU economy is the largest in the world. It’s certainly affordable. Given the neat pathological obsessive focus they have for their ‘palestinians’ it’s a fairly good bargain even when compared to the per capita vs GDP spending levels they already incur for social welfare in their own countries. All I’m suggesting is a kind of synthetic Potemkin village where the Arabs are hand fed everything to their heart’s desire and the progressives get to feel good alleviating the suffering of a group of people they claim are the most oppressed and tortured in the history of people. Moreover with their own Disney-state, every single other Arab nation would immediately flush itself of 100% of their own ‘palestinian refugees’ so they could return to their homeland. Another massive #1 worst in the world global problem solved. And an extra benefit for the EU would be if, they decided to put ‘palestine’ into the Schengen Area Agreement, the influx of Hamas, PLO and other ‘palestinians’ would practically ensure the ethnic cleansing of all Jews from Europe forever, which always been an ancillary European goal.

        • Ellen_L

          did you get a little carried away? I assume your latest suggestion is pure satire. I like your other suggestions better, they could actually be done and make sense.

          • Hard Little Machine

            Only half kidding. There’s precedent for it in Kosovo where the EU/UN actually appointed its own viceroy to be the autocratic authority over everything in Kosovo including making and enforcing any law he liked how he liked, to do and be what he wanted. And everything was provided by a European army. Moreover, in terms of social welfare, Saudi Arabia, a country of nominally 24 million people has barely a million Saudis who ‘work’ – almost all of them for the government in no show jobs. Saudis are paid by the Kingdom to do nothing and pound out more Saudis. And shop. Virtually they entire workforce is made up of foreigners who are barely better than indentured servants. The social welfare network in kingodom is 70% of the government budget and the government budget is something like 65% of the GDP. I/m saying we have to support them in the style to which Saudis are accustomed but something approaching a nominal ‘middle class’ Arab existence. I truly don’t see this as impossible. The ‘palestinians’ have inflated their population stats for decades. There aren’t 3 million of them. It probably less than 2. So for the cost of implementing your average EU unemployment scheme they could float the ‘palestinians’ for decades to sit home and do literally nothing at all at the same time they give gainful employment to their own people who’s love for the ‘palestinians’ knows no bounds.

          • Ellen_L

            Thank you for the information. I had not heard any of that. I wondered why conservationists did not simply move people trying to survive by cutting down rain forests which turn to unusable land in a short few years, and perhaps they have. It might be cheaper to bribe and move the Palestinians but their leaders may be so destructive they would rather destroy the civilized world so they can live like dark age warlords.
            Then too that is why religion must not be the major motivator – you can’t fight about whose god is best in a modern world and still preserve human life as a standard of value. You can only respect the human right to think for one’s self and expect everyone to do the same. It took mankind a long time to get to that conclusion and it has made the modern world – can’t give it up to people who don’t care to learn.
            If Allah is more important than human life – someone has to lose and I’d rather it be those who want destruction not those who value life – even the life of an enemy.

          • Hard Little Machine

            OT: one of the leading factors of rain forest destruction in Brazil is clear cutting to create land for agriculture for sugar beets to extend Brazil’s biofuel production so as to get off oil, gas and coal.

          • Ellen_L

            That is supposed to help the environment!?!?
            It is about time cronyism was recognized as the combination of power hunger and abuse of political power that it is. It allows anyone to distort the market and the actual needs of real people to gain unfair advantages and suppress facts.
            There is a huge difference between being “business friendly” while ignoring economic facts and advocating free market capitalism.
            There is probably a better place to say that, but such clear cutting is astonishing and needs to be blamed on the proper sources.

  • Vinegar Hill

    The author is erroneous when he states that the US is wrong to let the UN and Europe play a role in finding a solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. For far too long the US has played two roles in the peace process, that of referee and that of an ally of Israel. This ridiculously biased situation has, one hopes, finally run its course.
    The Europeans are neighbours to the Middle East and it is in their benefit to find a peaceful solution. Also, what better path to take than securing a UN Security Council Resolution, which has legal backing, to lead the peace process.
    Finally, the best place to start would be full implementation of SC 242 to get the ball rolling.

    • SoCalMike

      American Democrats are natural born traitors who get off selling out allies and kicking them in the teeth whenever possible.
      Israel is the only natural ally in that part of the world and the US should be treating it as such.
      Too many policy makers here think quite cynically that if we just toss Israel under the Muslim train we can make the Muslim world like us.
      To even use the term “peace process” at this point in time is nothing but a shallow attempt to mask Jew-hatred. The Palestinian make themselves clear. They refuse to accept a Jewish state and would rather strap bombs on their children than ever accept the existence of Israel.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Todays democrats are Socialists, who would not be recognized by JFK, LBJ, Truman Roosevelt.

      • Lanna

        Well said. People are fools to ever vote for todays Democrats who are Socialists, radicals, and Islamists.

        • cajunwarthog

          You left out the main one behind all the “drama” we have today……. COMMUNISTS.

      • Vinegar Hill

        The US is still dedicated to defend the existence of Israel but it cannot defend its conquests. At least in this respect it seems as if Obama has morals, something which the Israeli leadership is lacking.

        • Bert

          Vinegar lives in a fantasy world. The U.S. has NO legal treaty or obligation to lift one finger to defend Israel. In the past the U.S. has interfered with Israel’s attempts to defend itself. The U.S. State Department and Obama do NOT represent the will of the American People which have rejected them overwhelmingly in the last election. Most Americans understand that Israel is a helpful ally and deserves support. They also understand that the Arabs are our enemies and congress also understands this as well.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jews learned from WW2 that when they rely on others to protect them, Jews die.

            Every attack on Jews and Israel reinforce the fact that Jews need to have a nation of their own where they will be masters of their destiny.

            Sand nazis and regressive progressives can go and pound sand to assuage their disappointment..

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The imperialist Arab conquest of Jerusalem has been reversed.

          The Jews, the founders of Jerusalem, are again in control. – just as Muslims are the founders and controllers of Mecca.

        • watsa46

          The original British White paper for the Jews included BOTH sides of the Jordan river (Today Jordan and the whole of Israel with J & S)!

        • watsa46

          They cannot conquer what is their own. J & S are part of the original land of IL.

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          Conquests = winning three wars that more numerous and better armed enemies launched in their attempt to destroy Israel, and while winning the second one, recapturing land that those enemies had unlawfully invaded and occupied during the first one. And holding onto those lands to keep them from being used to launch yet another war of extermination against it, while raising the standard of living, life expectancy, educational level and political freedoms of the ‘occupied’ population. Yeah, I can defend that without losing a wink of sleep.

          • Vinegar Hill

            ??

      • Americana

        No American political party is composed of “natural born traitors”. As for “selling out allies and kicking them in the teeth”, there is no way to avoid settling the Palestinian issue w/the recognition of a Palestinian state just because Israel would like to refuse to do so. Declining the creation of a Palestinian state and forcing all Palestinian Arabs to emigrate to Jordan just because Israel would like to see the “israel Solution” in the region is not a reasonable political choice. For either country. The fact it is an increasingly populist choice doesn’t make it sensible. Watching such foolishness as this remain unresolved for generations is heartbreaking.

        Israel and Israelis should have realized long since that the region is fraught w/unrest because of the unresolved Palestinian question just as it’s fraught w/unrest because the Arabs refuse to countenance the founding of Israel. But the steps involved in resolving this involve a logical process that doesn’t broach continuing to sell out one nation over the other. The Palestinians were promised a NATION… Formation of that nation should proceed. At that point, negotiations w/other Arab entities can move forward. Let’s not forget, there have been courageous Arab leaders who’ve negotiated long-standing treaties w/Israel.

        • Ellen_L

          No there were no Palestinians to promise anything to when the nations of the area were settled. The West Bank has been a contested area for decades.

          Next, the Israelis have not said they would deport all Palestinians only those who are dangerous. (what would you do with terrorist who vandalize and murder?) It is the Palestinians who want all Jews gone from the area that contains many holy sites. It is they who have eliminated many Christians from the area. It is the same thinking that destroyed Jewish, Christian and even Muslim communities all over the Middle East continuing into the present daily news.

          Formation of a Palestinian state would make Israeli security much more difficult. They are still saying they want to destroy Israel (that makes them impossible to trust). As I said in earlier notes, the Palestinians can’t even supply basic needs without depending on funds from the rest of the world and heavily on Israel. Hamas is bragging how they are still building tunnels to kidnap and kill Israelis.

          The Palestinians could not support the state they claim they want nor defend it. Annexation would at least give better security and allow the area to prosper which it is not doing now. A unilateral granting of a Palestinian state would be catastrophic both to Israel and the Palestinians – perhaps to the world at large as the various Islamic factions fight it out over who runs the new Caliphate.

          • Americana

            “The Palestinians” were the RESIDENT ARAB POPULATION of that specific region. They might not have been as dedicated to their own political sovereignty at the time of Israel’s formation because they’d been part of a (Turkish) Caliphate which was dismantled and taken over by outside powers post-WW I. But what of it? There are plenty of peoples that have decided they have a national identity and they are a nation and, consequently, they’ve formed a nation. Certainly, the Palestinian Arabs of the region were more than ready to declare themselves a state entity within several years after Israel’s declaration once they realized how the power move the Israelis made would pan out. The Palestinians have as much right to constitute their nation in that region where they’ve lived for millennia as the world’s Jews have or making aliyah and reviving ancient kingdoms that were long since extinct.

            What an interesting, SELF-SERVING PERSPECTIVE. (EllenL) — “The Palestinians could not support the state they claim they want nor defend it. Annexation would at least give better security and allow the area to prosper which it is not doing now.” First, ANNEXATION would require Israel to DEPORT all the remaining Palestinians to other Arab states because the Palestinians don’t want to become Israelis, especially SECOND-RATE ISRAELIS. Do you recognize how CRAZY that annexation concept is and how it will merely perpetuate the issues that exist now? And the idea that a RECONSTITUTED JEWISH NATION can simply enter the picture and demand that everything and everyone move out of the way of Israel rebuilding the Third Temple and all the rest of that Messianic claptrap is simply and utterly FANTASTICAL DIPLOMACY in this day and age.

            The Palestinians aren’t opting for Jordanian citizenship now and neither are the Jordanians welcoming the Palestinians w/open arms. The Egyptians made an offer of land but that offer should only be considered reasonable if some of the present Israeli footprint is ADDED to the Egyptian land grant offer. As for the rest of your points, about the Palestinians being unable to support their state, it would be interesting to see how Israel would function were it to be facing the present level of interference w/its provisioning as the Palestinians are facing. True, the Palestinians have brought their difficulties on themselves to a large degree by continuing to operate terroristically but it doesn’t help things that Israel continues to stonewall Palestinian nationhood w/the expectation that Israel can continue this lunatic land grab that’s called “The Israel Solution” by certain factions of Jews and Israelis. The Palestinians are like any other nascent state and they will have to develop over time. You’re acting as if Israel dropped out of the womb ready to boogie without any outside assistance but Israel developed because it had immense amounts of injected capital from outside entities for umpteen decades, from the U.S. as well as many world Jewish organizations. We are paying now as a world for the Palestinians to NOT EXIST as a state. I’d rather pay for a few years for the Palestinians to get their state together and functioning. The fact is that Israel herself designed this Catch-22 by insisting on her right to exist in that locale based on religious insanity. The fact the Muslims also claim their right to exist there under the very same religious insanity doesn’t mean one side can totally one-up the other. It’s time Israel own up to those decisions from the time of her founding and stop the provocations that are contributing to this ongoing conflict. If the Palestinians are expected to cease and desist, the Israelis are also expected to cease and desist.

          • Lea

            Of course, it would be unthinkable that the muslims should live under the rule of the Jews, for their allah calls them pigs and apes. It must be a horrifying prospect to consider, especially when the muslims are used to being the slave masters and oppressors of the Jews. Even today, as we discuss Israel in its minutia, Turkey has successfully and relentlessly carried out its progrom of ethnically cleansing the Jews and the Christians from Turkey. The arab muslims are in this open process in syria and iraq, as well as libya, nigeria etc. But that is all irrelevant since what is of concern here is that the arab muslims get their way with Israel. You know full well that the oppression of the Jews did not begin in 1948. The west has taken a far too lenient and exceptional attitude towards the Palestinians and should have treated them like any other refugee, and forced them to move on. Migration is a practise of islam, it should not be a difficult thing to do in this case either.

          • Americana

            It doesn’t matter if the Palestinians find it a horrifying prospect to consider because of national and religious antipathy toward Israel. Given the historical situation, it’s a self-serving idea favored by some factions of Israelis as well as by some American Jewish groups that doesn’t solve anything, it simply ADDS ADDITIONAL VEXATION TO THE QUESTION of how much ANNEXATION is too much annexation. This antiquated plan is not new, it’s basis is the original Balfour Declaration and it has been revived at a point in time when waaaaaayyyyyy too many of these defunct diplomatic issues relative to the Balfour Declaration are being revived and fuel added to the fire.

          • watsa46

            Creationism! Where did U get the info that the Arabs of today “Palestine” which is really the Land of Israel, were in this area for millennia as you claim. There are NO archeological evidence to even suggest that. U must be getting your info from Voice from Muslim Goebbels. To get even, the Palestinians (WAFQ) is doing its best to destroy Juif artifacts wherever they can find them, i.e.: the Temple Mount. U must be aware of that!

          • Americana

            Don’t be ridiculous. The narratives and counter narratives these two cultures are producing in attempts to one up the other is absurd. There may be some destruction of artifacts by Muslims but I’d say it’s because of fake narratives like yours claiming that the Jews still own the Palestine region despite being conquered and conquered and conquered and displaced from the region thousands of years ago… At some point, the two parties are going to have to face the facts as to who is owed what.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            There is a particular species of humans who claim that anything bad that people do to Jews is merely the logical response to the misdeeds of the Jews, and that Jews are always the guilty authors of their own misfortunes. Your post justifyin the destruction of Jewish holy places and archaelogical artifacts has outed you as one of them.

          • Americana

            You’re seizing on anything in order to claim anti-Semitism. I don’t believe in the destruction of anyone’s holy places. On the other hand, the mutually destructive claims over who owns what on Temple Mount deserve as much ridicule as can be poured into the Holy Grails everyone is holding up in order to push their own ownership of Temple Mount. The Muslims have claimed Temple Mount because of being the most recent rulers of the region and its unfortunate that in order to keep the peace during Israel’s founding, Moshe Dayan agreed to allow the Waqf to maintain control of the Mount. Is there ongoing archaeology being carried out on Temple Mount? Yes. Archaeology produces lots of waste that is then removed from the site and trashed. Are valuable artifacts being destroyed? Somehow, I doubt it. No archaeologists would stand for artifacts being destroyed simply in order to further the claims of their side. Besides, whether there are artifacts of King David’s rule to be found on the Mount that are attributable to David’s time is a while off yet just because of the demands of archaeological digs.

            There is an ongoing attempt at the moment to prove Jewish autonomy over the region from the time Jews first arrived in the area until today. That also entails what’s found on Temple Mount and throughout digs around Jerusalem. That’s not the reality. It doesn’t matter what the archaeology says about the distant past, the Jews have not been the OWNERS of the region for the last few thousands of years. Therefore, in terms of logic of provenance and ownership, they are NOT the present owners except as an international gift that is a RECOGNITION of the hardships Jews have faced the world around, most particularly the horrific genocide of WW II.

          • watsa46

            The point is that the Jews from 1948 agreed to split the tiny territory and the Arabs refused. And now they claim that they recognize Israel at the condition that NO Jews be allowed to live in Israel.

          • Americana

            The Palestinians and the Arab world have a long way to go to delegitimize their illogical justification for hatred of Jews and Christians and their treatment within Muslim societies.

          • watsa46

            The
            Secret War Against the Jews by
            John Loftus and Mark Aarons. Strongly advise you to read this amazing book. By the way Loftus is Christian.

          • Americana

            I will try to read it sometime soon. Christmas is obviously going to interfere w/any assigned reading since I’m traveling to be w/my family for a week.

          • watsa46

            It is a big book but very interesting. Happy holidays to U & ur family.

          • Americana

            One last thing, the Israelis have said they wouldn’t deport all the newly-absorbed Palestinians if they were allowed to annex the remaining Palestinian-held areas that are meant to be the state of Palestine. We all know that retaining all those Palestinians in Israel as Israeli citizens would hold only so long as there were no intifadas that erupted. Since that’s not VERY LIKELY, AT ALL, let’s not even pretend that annexation and citizenship is a sincere Israeli offer or that it should be regarded in anything other than in a self-serving light to promote the annexation of the remaining Palestinian land because it’s virtually guaranteed to end up w/the majority of those Palestinians eventually being deported. In other words, “The Israeli Solution” is the solution that suits ISRAEL BEST not the solution that necessarily serves the region THE BEST.

          • Ellen_L

            Your note is most confusing. First, the Israeli government has not suggested annexation. The one state solution was proposed by Caroline Glick a journalist and writer.

            Next, what do you think intifada is? It is incitement and violence. How can such things be legal? Those who participate are not behaving civilly and deserve to be jailed or exiled. People who are not violent have more to fear from the criminals than their defenders.

            You seem to think that Palestinians are violent by nature and can’t stop acting badly. While the world is a mess now and there is too much tolerance for bad behavior, most people do not like violence if only because it can backfire and harm them. Stop the preaching of violence and it will disappear rather quickly; especially if the economy gets better and there are better things to do.
            I never suggested that all Palestinians be deported regardless of the PA leaders or other crazies do. It is hard to keep straight who says what. I recall hearing some ranting to that effect but there are angry people on all sides who say nutty things. Israel has laws which respect religious liberty and they treat citizens of all backgrounds with respect.

            You are the one who expects Palestinians to be violent. If you were right it would mean that they cannot be trusted and are not good negotiating partners. That is dehumanizing. Neither Glick, myself, the Israelis suggested that the mass of the people are by nature violent.

            So your note is confusing. As are many of the comments here. They seem to betray the underlying assumptions of the writers who expect others to be violent or intolerant or dishonest when the opposite is the case. I see things like assuming Israel wants to exile the Palestinians when it the PA who wants all Jews, Christians, etc out of their proposed state. Or assuming violent uprisings are a normal part of life which is not true of Israel who reacts defensively while violence is preached in schools, streets and mosques in Palestinian areas.

          • Americana

            It doesn’t make it any less pernicious that “The Israel Solution” has recently been promoted by Caroline Glick. Hers is certainly not the only Israeli/Jewish voice that has spoken about the full annexation of ALL Palestinian territory and the defensibility of annexation in every realm, social, political, etc. Where one draws the line about the intentions of the Israeli government vs major Israeli individuals/politicians becomes a blur when one looks at such policies as they morph over time from individual choices into the national pursuit of the government. The fact that the government of Israel has pursued the aim of non-recognition of the state of Palestine is perhaps the strongest indication of this underlying choice being a reality at work.

            My notes aren’t “confusing” at all. I just don’t believe that it’s possible to ignore the STATED DIPLOMATIC intention of forming a state of Palestine just because there is violence from within some blocks of the Palestinian population. The fact the Israelis are arguing that their perspective is the ONLY ONE THAT COUNTS vs the final disposition of the Palestinians just because the Palestinians are threatening them is nonsensical on the face to it. If they had a final disposition, they would better able to decide on defensive measures the state of Israel would need to plan for in the long term. But to PROLONG THIS PROCESS of statehood and disposition is to continue to court this violence. There was always going to be this split reaction between Palestinian factions. Exploiting the Palestinian political schisms isn’t going to solve the problem for Israel. It’s whether one can make it worthwhile for the Palestinians to forget that they’ve had land taken away without ANY COMPENSATION OF ANY KIND.

          • Americana

            FYI, please don’t try to claim that “I expect Palestinians to be violent”. It might seem tactically a good idea to you to imply I’m the ONE who’s claiming all the Palestinians are violent, but the point is Caroline Glick wouldn’t have suggested “The Israel Solution” if she didn’t want to create what she considered a more defensible nation. Why would she be concerned about defensibility? Why, because of Palestinian violence, of course. Do I really need to go dig up some of Caroline Glick’s op-eds about Palestinian terrorism and her perspective on the peace initiatives and the tunnels and so on and so on???? INVERTING THE PROPAGANDA aspect of discussing Palestinian violence and attributing that claim about “Palestinians being violent” to me doesn’t make it so. It’s absurd to even pretend to this.

            As for your final comment about the Palestinians wanting the Jews to be exiled from within Palestine when it’s declared a state, that’s true it’s part of their national narrative. It arose from the initial period when a Jewish homeland was first being discussed and it was abundantly clear that the Palestinian Arabs would be disenfranchised. The fact it has been perpetuated ever since relates to both israeli actions and intentions and Palestinian actions and intentions. Palestinian hegemony has become an ever more acute political issue when Palestinian holdings are purchased by straw buyers w/the intent to expand the Jewish geographic footprint. The fact Muslim hegemony allows for the suppression of other religions in relation to Islam has now become part of the wider jihdist fighting in the region and is indicative of just how long the Palestinian disenfranchisement has gone on.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            It was never clear that Palestinian Arabs would be disenfranchised. Most Arabs remained in Israel during the war instead of fleeing months earlier at the request of surrounding Arab nations who promised them they could return and share in the spoils after a quick victory that would drive all the Jews into the sea. The Arabs who did not fall for this serve on the Israel Supreme Court, vote in Israel’s elections, have their own political parties, attend the same universities as Jews, practice in all professions, and have political and civil freedoms that they have in no other nation in the middle east.

          • Americana

            Isn’t that an interesting footnote to the Nakba? That the Palestinians who ignored the calls to flee are members of Israeli society and continue their lives as Israeli citizens? But the Nakba flight came about because of what BOTH SIDES were doing to achieve their political and military goals. It was not just the Arabs who encouraged the Palestinians to flee because the Arab nations wanted to clear the ground for full-scale war against Israel. There was Israeli radio propaganda that was meant to appear to be from Arabs that suggested that Palestinians leave Israel in strategic areas. It’s not clear if that Israeli radio propaganda was similar to what is done today by Israel when Israel goes into Palestinian territory and contacts families and tells them their house is being targeted by air strikes or whatever. But the fact is, it wasn’t the Israeli authorities who acknowledged they were making these broadcasts. It was a covert operation. Was the Nakba flight encouraged in order to prevent needless civilian deaths? That’s my private take on why the Israeli radio propaganda was undertaken. It was admirable to do this to prevent civilian Palestinian deaths. It is not admirable to pretend Israel didn’t have a role in the extent of the Nakba.

            It has always been a sad political footnote to Israel’s founding that the Arab world was so steeped in Jew hatred and its recent WW II expression in the region that no Arab politicians could understand the VIRTUE in attempting to do what was done for the world’s Jews after WW II. That would have been the ULTIMATE ACTION of the RIGHTEOUS AMONG NATIONS to have facilitated the founding of Israel and the peaceful resettlement of however many Palestinians wished to leave Israel. It is a human tragedy that the recently founded U.N. and the United Kingdom didn’t have the political craft to have tackled the horrible political situation more intelligently. To me, this was largely the result of Zionism and the seeking of a Jewish homeland being such a long simmering problem for the region the diplomacy had already assumed a mantle of violence by both sides that made it impossible for discussion and for the Arabs to welcome Israel.

          • Lea

            I agree with alot of what you have said however you have failed to pay due cognisance of the inherent nature of the islamic ideology that does not allow for co-habitation with the Jews, unless the Jews are fully subjugated to the muslims, this factor remains regardless of the reality that there are some muslims who are not inclined to violence or to incite violence, despite their islamic indoctrination.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      We all saw the “peaceful” side of Islam yesterday in Australia and today in Pakistan.

      Vinegar Bill, You are tidying up your house while it is on fire.

    • cree

      You keep inviting rebuke.
      If it were possible for the UN, Europe, the US or whoever else to get Israel to concede back to the 1967 lines and expect that to be the two state peaceful solution is as delusional as the peace process is for peace. The 1967 lines are irrelevant. There is no solution but war; take note, your side is inviting what it will get. There is no other way, right?

      • Vinegar Hill

        The 1967 lines are not “irrelevant” as they are illegally occupied territories that Israel has to withdraw from.

        • Lea

          The muslims will definitely respond to this kind of idea, as preposterous, based on the fact that they consider that which they have conquered to be their property, indeed, the muslims even consider lands that they once conquered and subsequently lost, still to belong to them and that it is their right and duty to regain it, as well as the rest of the world.

        • MukeNecca

          “Illegally occupied” only for those who believe it is illegal for Jews to win wars.

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm
            Might makes right is that it? That my friend is a double edged sword. There is as they say, always a bigger stronger adversary waiting just around the corner. If Israel is not careful it could end up as part of someone else’s victory. At which point I don’t think you would be so cavalier about illegal occupation.

          • MukeNecca

            “If Israel is not careful it could end up as part of someone else’s victory.”

            I’m sure the Jews will heed your advice to be careful and, once again, administer the aggressor the right measure of might.
            No worries, mate.

          • Lea

            lol, you are so funny, the only time a muslim thinks might is right is when he is using it to rape and murder the kaffirs and apostates and enslave helpless women and children, and then go on to occupy and colonise them whilst converting them to islam by violence and oppression, stripping them of their identity by arabising them too. This is the core of the conflict amongst muslims and the middle east. This fight for identity.

            Even their migration to other countries is nothing less than a the might of demographic invasion and conquest. Furthermore, the muslims lost palestine to the British, who graciously handed it back, but muslims cannot accept that the Holy Land is theirs to claim and keep. They lost the war. However, there is always Mecca, lying there, insignificant, forgotten by the world, irrelevant and of no import to anyone except the slaves of the god of the kaaba.

            Jerusalem belongs to the Jews, as does Israel. Muslims should respect that, that is if they had any inclination to living up to that mantra that islam is a religion of peace, of course. Then again, muslims enjoy the use of might, the blood and the guts and the terror and the trauma, the dismay and the fear, it is all sanctioned by their profit of arabia. The people who are anti-assad, are all in support of ISIS in Babylon.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            In other words, you are telling us that the Arabs who unlawfully took it by force and held it are entitled to cry foul when the Jews not only survived by actually won the war that the Arabs launched to exterminate them.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            Which unfortunately is why so many people take it as a given.

        • watsa46

          Contested territories by many non-Jewish scholars and legal experts.

          • Americana

            Being a Jewish scholar doesn’t mean they get to REDRAW international boundaries that are recognized by international bodies.

          • watsa46

            Read again what i wrote!!!!

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Your Pal-e-SWINE has to withdraw from the West Bank to their ancestral hovels on the East bank.

        • ddearborn

          Hmmm
          In point of fact under the rule of international law and the UN agreement that created Israel, the 1967 lines have no meaning either. Israel must be forced back to the original 1948 borders. These are the only lines that Israel is legally entitled under the rule of law. All lands currently occupied beyond those original borders where taken by force of arms and have been illegally occupied ever since.

          • GerriAttricks

            Just the way the USA came into existence. Give the country back to the native north Americans, the Indian peoples from whom it was stolen and then come spout your nonsense. Land belongs to whomever has the strength to take it and hold it.

          • His Excellency

            Just like all of the other Western Hemisphere countries that were created in a similar way as well. The left loves to ignore the fact that they supported Sandinista aggression against the indigenous Miskito population of Nicaragua during that country’s civil war in the 1980s. The left has double standards because that is what defines them.

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm
            The difference (which is obvious to everyone accept you apparently) is that Israel is committing atrocities, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide as I write this. Therefore direct action right now will save lives, prevent further suffering and right many of the wrongs committed by Israel. There is nothing we can do that will erase the pain, suffering and injustices endured by the American Indians over a hundred years ago.

            It speaks volumes about the weakness of Israel’s position that more and more defenders of the Zionist faith are compelled to trot out the old “Might-Makes-Right” argument. It is result of the public finally becoming aware of the overwhelming evidence and rational arguments which clearly side with the Palestinians.

          • His Excellency

            You support Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, who was the “Palestinian” Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and a friend and close ally of the Third Reich. Hamas and its affiliates are the modern-day SS.

          • GerriAttricks

            Boy are you ever dis-ingenuous . Crimes against humanity my butt. Right. Israel treats Palestinians in Israeli hospitals. Goes out of its way to try to prevent civilian casualties to the point of endangering their own soldiers and civilians all the while the Palestinians hide behind their women and children when the fighting starts knowing full well the Israelis will be excoriated for fighting back. Give it a rest already. You should come right out and admit you’re a Jew hater and get it over with that way you won’t have to hind behind your cloak of moral indignation. When the Palestinians (BTW there is not ,and has never been a Palestinian people) stop lobbing rockets into Israel and decide THEY want peace they will have it. The UN is nothing to look up to, have you ever heard them condemn the real human right violators? Can you answer that question?

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm
            War crimes and crimes against humanity as well as evidence of genocide by Israel has been found by a multitude of international courts as well as the UN. There is nothing disingenuous about stating the truth.
            Some more facts to stick in ear; Since 1948 less than 50 Israelis have been killed by those “rockets”. Nearly 2000 men, women and children were murdered by Israel in the Gaza attack this last summer. Further more, property damage from “rocket” attacks has been minimal. Israel on the other hand essentially leveled half one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. Israel systematically virtually all critical CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE IN GAZA; Israel targeted Hospitals, water supplies, water treatment plants, sewage plants, power plants, aid stations, schools, government officers etc. And even more telling is the fact that to date Israel has denied the Palestinians the materials to rebuild them.
            So at this point in time 1.8 people are living with little potable water, food, power, medical care and shelter as we head into the dead of winter. Considering that half of the entire population are children under the age of 16, and another quarter are women this is even more cowardly and despicable. This is called “CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, WAR CRIMES AND GENOCIDE” . Look it up, Israel is the posture child for all of these.
            And here is another news flash: Stating the above FACTS is in no way shape or form an attack on Jews or the Jewish faith. It is an indictment of the state of Israel. Israel is NOT a Jewish only state. Fully one third of the entire population not Jewish. Therefore my criticism falls equally on them as well.
            I suggest you tell Israel to stop its crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide against defenseless women and children. Oh and while you are at it, tell them to stop claiming to be a “democracy” nobody is buying that garbage anymore.
            But I will leave you with an opinion; Israel had better start getting used to the idea that they are going to have to give up all the lands they have stolen over the last 50+ years. The world at large has just about had enough of Israel’s tyranny, terrorism and lawlessness.

          • GerriAttricks

            They brought it on themselves.

            Between 1993 and 2001, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Palestinian Authority (PA) signed six agreements with Israel and conducted countless meetings and summits to bring about a lasting peace between them: The Camp David Accords, The Madrid Conference, The Oslo
            Accords, The Jordanian-Israeli Peace Treaty, The Taba Agreement (“Oslo II”)–which included five more attempts to try to make this agreement
            work. Each Israeli concession was met with Palestinian non-compliance and escalating violence. Six times, Palestinians failed to honor their commitments and increased their anti-Israeli aggressions. Finally, they
            broke every promise they made and began an all-out guerrilla war against Israel and its citizens. The failure of the Palestinian leadership to be earnest and trustworthy stands in stark contrast to the statesmanship exhibited by Israel’s peace partners in the region: the late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and the late Jordanian King Hussein, both of whom honored their agreements. Although Israel
            succeeded in reaching historic peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan, when the time came to negotiate with the Palestinians in the territories, the Israelis discovered the Palestinian Arabs were unable
            or unwilling to choose peace or honor their given word. Despite numerous agreements, the
            pattern has always been the same: The Palestinians violate the conditions and commitments of virtually every agreement they sign. No way do I have any sympathy for them. If they wanted peace they could have it. They were offered it several times including 98% of everything they asked forbut they refused. They don’t want peace. All they want is all the Jews dead and gone. Never going to happen. When the Jews founded Israel, BTW, their ancient biblical homeland, they coined the phrase “never again” Do you understand what that statement means? It means if people like yourself and the the world at large as you say have had it with Israel, well that to me means you think and are hoping the world collectively think they can force Israel to surrender by what? Force of arms? Declare war on Israel? You will get the Sampson Option, The Masada Plan all in one. This will ignite a world war on a scale we’ve never seen. If Israel is going to go then the whole world goes with it and I for one say if that happens I don’t mind going and taking along with me all the people, you included who support the most barbaric people the world has ever known since the dawn of mankind. The land was taken in war and they’re never getting it back. You can count on it Let me ask you a question. What would you do if somebody continually took pot shots at your house? Would you just hise under your bed hoping one of your kids doesn’t get a bullet in the head or would you shoot back?

          • Vinegar Hill

            Nicely stated and I am surprised you have not been flagged and your comment deleted!
            As you have stated Israel is illegal and indeed its very soveriginty can be disputed as a result of what you have stated. I look forward to further postings from you!!

          • billobillo54

            The Israelis were attacked by Jordan, Egypt and Syria. International Law stipulates that land obtained by victory in a defensive war against an invading aggressive enemy belongs to the defending victor.

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm

            Actually these countries were responding to Israeli’s slaughter of Palestinian women and children. And to stop the wholesale eviction of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes and off their lands. Homes and lands that were specifically protected by the very UN action that created Israel. These are war crimes and crimes against humanity under international law. Oh and Israel had already crossed the 1948 lines prior to the international response. Israel had already seized lands beyond their borders in Palestine PRIOR to the response from its neighbors in defense of the Palestinians.

            Your claim falls flat in the face of reality. UN Resolutions 242 and 338 stipulate that Israel must withdraw completely from the occupied lands. Israel has more UN sanctions against it than any other country in the world. Israel is in violation of more sanctions than any other country in the world. And if Israel did not have the US to protect it, in all likelihood the UN would have long since forced them back to the 1948 borders by force.

            You also seem to have forgotten that On June 5, 1967 Israel invaded Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and took possession of the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights. Does that mean you agree that the land seized then must be returned to its rightful owners?

          • His Excellency

            And you are a Stalinist/Maoist loon who hates America, the West, Israel, democracy and support Communist/Baathist/Islamist totalitarianism. So-called “Palestine” is an artificial invention and it would have never been recognized as a state had it not been for the Soviet Union creating the nationality, as well as its successor, neo-Communist Russia, along with Communist China and Islamist Iran. If it wasn’t for those three powers, Hamas would not have had any legitimacy and the PA would have to seriously negotiate with Israel. By the way, why do you ignore the fact that over 800,000 Jews were expelled from other Middle Eastern countries around the time of the 1948 war? Why do you support Hajj Amin Al-Husseini? Why do you support Radical Islam?

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm

            I am an fierce Constitutionalist, Patriot, honorably discharged VET with 7 years as an 11B. I dearly love my country. What I don’t like are hypocritical terrorist states like Israel. (no, not because the majority of the country is now Jewish) but because they really are a country which is committing war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide against the Palestinian people. That is not just my opinion, but that of a multitude of international courts, investigations and the UN.

            “an artificial invention” Are you kidding? That is precisely what Israel is; an artificial invention of the UN. Israel is only as legitimate as the UN mandate that created it out of other people’s land. And for the record I do not support radical Islam, any more than I support Radical, violent zionists who are currently in charge of Israel. I do not believe in stealing other people’s land and turning around and trying to label them terrorists when they object.
            The Palestinians are under no legal, moral or ethical obligation to “negotiate” with Israel. Anymore than I would be obligated to negotiate with someone caught stealing my car.

          • His Excellency

            Israel is a historic reality. Jews have lived in the Holy Land region continuously for over 3,000 years. So-called “Palestine” is an artificial invention. The so-called “nationality” was created by the Soviet Union through its KGB in the 1960s in order to discredit Israel’s right to exist. By the way, the ones who are calling for genocide are the Islamists. Groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and their affiliates support a second Holocaust. By the way, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, who was considered the godfather of “Palestinian” nationalism, was a friend and close ally of the Third Reich who during World War II, actually travelled to Germany to meet with Hitler to discuss creating concentration camps for Jews in the Middle East. Besides being anti-Semitic, the so-called “Palestinians” you champion are also Islamist totalitarians who are misogynists, as well as homophobic and intolerant of anyone who is not Muslim. Israel respects women’s rights, homosexual rights, minority rights and the rights of just about everyone in the country’s why must you support Communist/Baathist/Islamist imperialism and totalitarianism? It is because you hate America and support its adversaries.

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm

            Jews have lived for a long time in the holy land. Muslims have lived in the holy land for thousands of years as well. Just about everything you say after that is just plain old fashion lies. Palestine is not an “artificial” invention anymore than “Israel” is. The region was called Palestine long before the Soviet Union came into existence. Jews Rabbis and Jews political leaders have publicly called for genocide against the Palestinians numerous times just in the last year. I can quote numbers of them. But the only relevant point to remember about “genocide” is that Israel is actually committing it against the Palestinians as we speak. Since the artificial creation of “Israel” by UN Mandate in 1948 I cannot recall any genocide against the Jews in the region. I strongly suggest that you refrain from invoking connections to the Third Reich, because contrary to popular believe there are many direct ties between the Nazis and a whole host of Zionist Jews. Anti-Semitism really, I have read literally thousands of totally bigoted, religiously biased, hateful filth written by Jews confessing their hatred of all Muslims. I think you are the pot calling the kettle black here. As for your declaration of Israelis undying commitment to civil rights; you are completely full of it. Israel doesn’t respect anybody’s rights in any way shape or form, UNLESS THEY JEWISH. This isn’t just opinion, it is enshrined in the laws of the land of Israel. Yours claims in this regard are even more preposterous in light of recent attempts to make Israel a Jewish only state. An action which by definition, sh*ts all over every non Jewish citizen in Israel. Of which there are literally Millions.

            I have honorably and proudly served my country as a member of the US Army. How many years have you served? And time in the IDF doesn’t count. I can trace my family tree directly back over 220 years. My family literally helped settle the state in which I know reside here in New England. Since you seem to place so much creed in history, how far back can you trace your family in the United States? Come to think of it; are you in fact a dual citizen Israeli? Have you even been to America?
            Loving my country and believing in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (documents that do more than pay lip service to the ideals that Israel only bestows on its Jewish citizens) has absolutely nothing to do with supporting Israel. The fact that you equate supporting Israel with Patriotism is proof positive that you don’t know the first thing about being an American, let alone a Patriot.

          • His Excellency

            Yes, the name “Palestine” did exist for thousands of years, but it was another name for the Holy Land region. “Palestine” is a geographical region, just like New England. The name “Palestine” isn’t even Arabic. It is Latin and it means Philistines, who were Greek sailors with red hair (the Philistines were not Arabs). The Romans named the Holy Land region (which included Judea and Samaria, the Jews’ historical homeland) Palestine almost 600 years before the rise of Islam and when the Arabs started moving into the area. Jew-hatred is part of the Islamist agenda, which includes the so-called “Palestinian nationalism”. You simply defend the religious totalitarian Islamists who are misogynistic and homophobic who are the heirs of the Axis forces of World War II. Why don’t you talk about anti-black racism in Gaza and in Sudan. Sudan’s Islamist apartheid dictatorship committed a genocide against its native black African Christian population, yet you don’t talk about that because you support thg Sudanese dictatorship

          • ddearborn

            Hmmm

            You do realize that you are spouting nonsense. I will start with your last sentence which is of course a complete fabrication; I have NEVER supported ANY dictatorship anywhere in the world. I have written literally thousands of posts and you will not find a single word of support for dictatorships. Yours is a a crude attempt at character assassination in hopes to casting doubt on the validity of my comments. (Ad Hominem) It merely highlights the weakness of Israel’s position, and your arguments to justify them. In short, you lied, again, about me.

            Attempting to justify and deflect legitimate criticism and condemnation of Israel’s illegality, by asking the reader to consider other examples of atrocities and injustices won’t wash either. One criminal act never justifies another. The modern world does not live by the tenants of the Old Testament.
            I refuse to be drawn into a personal p*ssing match with you. We disagree, so be it. World opinion, international and courts as well as the UN are on my side with regard to Palestine and Israel’s war crimes, crimes against humanity and Genocide. It you wish to continue to defend such lawless, immoral actions on the part of Israel, more power to you buddy. Have a great day.

          • His Excellency

            The UN is controlled by the Organization of Islamic cooperation, which are the 57 Muslim countries that refuse to accept Israel’s right to exist. Anyway, numerous so-called “Palestinian” imams have openly called for the destruction of Israel and a second Holocaust. In Gaza, there is the infamous Hamas militant and imam Yunis Al-Astal, who is actually banned from entering the United Kingdom due to his hate-filled rhetoric against Jews and anyone who does not support his racism and bigotry. Why do you support radical Islam. That is not a religion of peace. That is a religion of bigots.

          • Ken Kelso

            The Arabs are invaders from Saudi Arabia.
            Tell me Mr Genius, how do the Arabs have 22 countries when all the Arabs come from 1 country.” Saudi Arabia.
            How did the Arabs get all of North Africa from the Berbers in the 7th century?
            I’m talking about what is today Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Libya

            Look at the Blacks in Sudan, Mauritania and Somalia. How did those people become Arab?
            Its called Mohammad and his Jihad armies in the 7th century invaded and took the entire Mideast and North Africa and forced everyone they defeated to be Islamic and Arab.

        • cree

          How can Israel illegally occupy its own territory?

          Where Muslims really screwed up was when Israel got its nation state existence back (from before Muslims ever existed) and they tried to deny that existence. Israel exists whether anyone else foolishly denies it, or, doesn’t like it. The wars and land the Muslim’s aggression lost because of the existence of Israel proves the point.

          Gaza for peace is where Israel really screwed up. Israel has to withdraw from, where? We’re at, from nowhere.

          Since you too have to accept Israel’s existence, ask yourself the question:

          • Vinegar Hill

            The West Bank and East Jerusalem is not Israeli territory. Therefore the occupation is illegal.

          • His Excellency

            What about when they were occupied by Jordan, you Islamist supporter? Why do you support Islamist aggression?

          • Ken Kelso

            Jerusalem has had a Jewish population majority since the late 1850s – that’s 130 years already, before ‘Palestinianism’ was invented:

            Jews were expelled from East-Jerusalem by the Jordanian occupation at 1948. They lived in East-Jerusalem for thousands of years. They returned to their homes after Israel liberated the city in 67.Jerusalem was never in history the capitol of any Arab country. Jerusalem has been only the Capitol of Israel.

            ISRAEL which is defending itself against Pan-Arabism, Arab imperialism and Arabization of the Middle East – that is the “problem you don’t like.

            The real problem is global Arab/Moslem insistence to spread hate, violence, wars, terrorism, lies, false accusations against Jews and reducing Jews to subhumans or second class citizens – slaves or servants – without any human rights.

          • Ken Kelso

            Former PLO millitant Walid Shoebat asks, “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”

            “We considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians – they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag.”

            Jews have had a strong connection and continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years.

          • His Excellency

            How come the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank is not illegal in your view, Islamist useful idiot?

          • Vinegar Hill

            They don’t occupy the West Bank. When they did it was Illegal but now the law breakers are the Israelis.

        • GerriAttricks

          The USA is occupied territory isn’t it? Give the USA back to the native Americans it was stolen from and then you can tell the Jews to give back the land they took in their wars. Until then nobody has any right to criticize Israel’s occupation of their war prize. The same goes for any country established on lands or territories their might enabled them to take. Otherwise shut up.

          • Vinegar Hill

            You need to update your knowledge. The slaughter of the natives of North America and the theft of their land took place before such acts were declared illegal according to international law. The thieving and brutalities carried out by the Zionists/Israelis took place when such acts were accepted as totally illegal.

          • GerriAttricks

            Don’t be ridiculous. That’s your argument? If its illegal now it was illegal back then regardless of who passed what laws that you seem to think mean otherwise. Get real.

          • His Excellency

            Why do you ignore the fact that Joseph Brant and his confederation sided with the British empire during the American Revolution in order to continue oppressing the colonists and to persecute George Washington? Brant ultimately wanted to become the colonial governor of New York. Anyway, why do you ignore the theft of indigenous land by other countries in the Western Hemisphere? Why did you support the Sandinista persecution of the indigenous Miskito population of Nicaragua during that country’s civil war in the 1980s? That is because you are also a Communist. Learn from facts.

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          Not according to UNSC 242, which says Israel need not withdraw from a square inch until there is a comprehensive peace with secure and internationally recognized borders. Even you are not a big enough liar to claim that has happened.

      • ddearborn

        Hmmm
        Wow, very impressive. No doubt, with that kind of logic, you could legitimately could claim that the earth is flat and the moon will soon fall from the sky.

        • Lea

          Dearborn is a mess. Even there the muslims are intolerant and abusive of christians and kaffirs.

        • His Excellency

          You are allergic to logic, you Communist/Islamist supporter.

    • http://www.clarespark.com/ Clare Spark

      I am appalled by this comment. It was the UN that created the conflict in the first place. US policy was to encourage an alliance of weak Arab states, while maintaining a shaky alliance with the UK after WW2. There would be no Israel had not Moscow expected it to join the Eastern bloc in the Cold War, so they shipped the weapons that made the Jewish state possible in 1948. Vinegar Hill should learn some UN history. See http://clarespark.com/2014/06/18/how-ralph-bunche-sold-out-and-failed-in-palestine/. “How Ralph Bunche sold out and failed in Palestine.”

      • truebearing

        Vinegar Hill has a lot to learn about a lot of things, but in this case he is being intentionally ignorant.

      • Vinegar Hill

        You seem to have forgotten the McMahon correspondence and many other events before the birth of the UN. You are way off target regarding the “creation” of the conflict.

      • Americana

        You must be forgetting how much conflict there was during the period of international Zionist settlement in Palestine shortly before and immediately after WW I when the first real push for a Jewish presence began in the region. The Palestinian Arabs were well aware of the increase in overall national intentions of the Jewish immigrants in terms of the formation of a Jewish state. As a result, there was a gradual increase in hostilities between the Arabs and the Jews as the Jewish lobby began to push Britian for the creation of a Jewish state in the Palestine Mandate.

        Not sure why you think Russia would have expected Israel to join the Soviet bloc just because it sold the nascent Israelis arms. That’s more like simply trying for an edge w/the Israelis rather than expecting them to become full-fledged members of the Communist bloc.

        http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/Israel%20between%20East%20and%20West%201948-56.html

        From the above link:

        One of the original imperatives of Zionist strategy in world politics was an alliance with a Great Power. External support was essential for the project of building an independent Jewish state in Palestine. From the very beginning, towards the end of the 19th century, the Zionist movement displayed two features which were to be of fundamental and enduring importance in its subsequent history: the non-recognition of a Palestinian national entity, and the quest for an alliance with a Great Power external to the Middle East. Theodor Herzl, the visionary of the Jewish state, exemplified both of these features. He assumed that the Zionist movement would achieve its goal not through an understanding with the local Palestinians but through an alliance with the dominant Great Power of the day. And he was tireless in his search for an external sponsor. In the formative period of the movement, the weakness of the Yishuv, the pre-independence Jewish community in Palestine, and the growing hostility of the Palestinians combined to make the reliance on a Great Power a central element in Zionist strategy. The dominant Great Power in the Middle East changed several times in the course of the twentieth century; first it was the Ottoman Empire, after the First World War it was Great Britain, and after the Second World War it was the United States. But the Zionist fixation with enlisting the support of the Great Powers in the struggle for statehood and in the consolidation of statehood remained constant.

        The birth of the State of Israel in 1948 coincided with the onset of the Cold War between East and West. In 1947, as the struggle for Palestine entered its critical phase, the United States and the Soviet Union came out in support of the establishment of an independent Jewish state. Both superpowers voted in favour of the UN resolution for the partition of Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state in what was one of rare occasions of agreement between them during the Cold War. This was followed up with political support, diplomatic recognition, and, in the case of the Soviet Union, the supply of vital military aid to the fledgling state. Israel thus came into the world under uniquely propitious international circumstances: it enjoyed the support of both East and West in its struggle for independence.

        But the new state’s international position was paradoxical in a number of ways. In the first place, far away countries accorded it diplomatic recognition while its immediate neighbours did not. Geographically, it was located in Asia but culturally it regarded itself as part of the West. In order to keep on good terms with both East and West, the newly-born state adopted a policy of i-hizdahut, of non-identification in the global struggle between the two camps. Michael Comay, a senior official at the Foreign Ministry, summed up both the dilemma and the solution: ‘At the birth of the state there were two godfathers – the United States and the Soviet Union. To try to retain the support of both, we adopted a posture of non-identification, of keeping out of the Cold War.’[5]

        There were other, no less compelling reasons for the posture of non-identification. One was Israel’s sense of responsibility for the fate and welfare of Jews everywhere. Secondly, there was Israel’s desperate need for aliya, immigration, coupled with the fact that the two rival blocs contained large numbers of Jews. Thirdly, Israel’s involvement in a bitter conflict with its neighbours made it vital to secure access to arms. The Eastern bloc served as the country’s main arms supplier during the War of Independence but there was the hope and the expectation of acquiring arms from the Western bloc as well. Fourthly, from the very beginning, Israel was heavily dependent on external economic aid. The United States was the most coveted source of aid but prudence dictated keeping all the options open.

    • truebearing

      Twenty five guest votes, eh? So they knew you were going to post your vile propaganda before you did it…or you voted for yourself twenty five times.

      The author is spot on. You are the one who is wrong, as usual.

      The reason Obama is abandoning our ally Israel to the craven fools in Europe, and the contemptibly corrupt UN, is because he wants to “wash his hands”, of the inevitable, ugly consequences of a “peaceful solution.” Netanyahu wouldn’t go quietly into that goodnight, so Obama is using the leverage of international evil, aka the UN, to force Israel to open itself to a fatal vulnerability.

      “For far too long the US has played two roles in the peace process, that of referee and that of an ally of Israel. This ridiculously biased situation has, one hopes, finally run its course.”

      This is the core of both your lie and your animus toward Israel. What you mean in saying “for far too long” is that “we never should have” been an ally of Israel. You are suggesting we should have allied with the Muslim snakes, whose every utterance trips from a forked tongue. Duplicitous yourself, you think the US is better off with only duplicitous “allies,” but only because they would be far more effective in undermining US security, your poorly hidden other goal.

      Your oily drivel about the US being somehow innappropriate as the referee in the conflict flies in the face of the many times that the US has necessarily become the referee in conflicts precisely because the UN has been such an unmitigated failure in that role — from its inception.

      Obama’s abdication of the US role in the Middle East is in harmony with his forfeiture of US sovereignty to the UN. The global govenrment is taking shape, and it operates not according to the laughable impossibilties of the UN Charter, but on the primitive principle of “might makes right.” Israel is being bullied by a mob of hostile nations, with Obama’s blessing.

      Europe wants peace. What a joke. If Europe wanted peace they would be expelling or killing the blood-thirsty Muslims, who have them by the throat and who have openly declared that they will destroy Europe by jihad. There will be no peace in any country occupied by or adjacent to Muslims. The Koran is explicit on that fact.

      You are a thoroughly dishonest individual. Most likely a Muslim yourself, but if not, then a soulless thrall of the Left. Either way, your lies won’t work here.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        Ballot stuffing is the socialist way. That’s why socialists are against Voter ID.

        Voter ID benefits all – except for those who plot to subvert elections as in socialist, islamist entities.

        • truebearing

          There’s no way he got votes from FPM regulars. You’d think he’d be smart enough to figure out that everyone can see that his guest votes are contrived, but then again…

      • Lightbringer

        Vinegar Hill is entitled to its wrong-headed opinions. And everyone else needs the comic relief they provide.

        Great post, as always Truebearing.

        • truebearing

          Thanks Lightbringer. It’s good you can find humor in people like him. I’m finding it harder these days.

      • cree

        Bearing more truth; very well put, sir.

        • truebearing

          Thanks cree.

      • Vinegar Hill

        Obama is faced with pressure being applied to both himself and the Democratic Party from the Jewish lobby in Washington. Coupled with this is the realisation that the US does play a double role which which leads to a totally biased situation. The winds of change are blowing in Europe and Obama has seized the moment to encourage Europe to play a prominent role in the peace process. Within this context your efforts to paint me as a hater of Israel have failed.
        The UN has failed many times in the Israeli Palestinian conflict due to US backing at the SC level coming out in favour of Israel. Consequently, you are way off the mark within the conflict we are commenting on when you write “US has necessarily become the referee in conflicts precisely because the UN has been such an unmitigated failure in that role”.
        I also note that you have demonstrated your total disrespect for international law and come out in favour of brute force. This can be interpretered as a failure on your behalf to offer a reasoned response.

        • Lea

          What winds of change is blowing in Europe has motivated Obama to hand the negotiations over to them?

          • truebearing

            The rise of Islam. The turd is trying to mask the genocidal agenda he supports with cliched rhetoric.

          • Vinegar Hill

            The majority of politicians of several European governments have voted in recognition of the State of Palestine. The European Parliament have voted unanimously to recognise the State of Palestine. The European government have drawn up measures to implement against Israel if they do not reach an agreement with the Palestinians regarding the freedom and establishment of the State of Palestine.
            Those are the refreshing “winds of change” Lea!

          • Lea

            Well, I think it is even more refreshing that the US, under the auspices of Ted Cruz, has taken a very strong stance against the Palestinians and Hamas.

            Just about every aspect of the crimes committed by Hamas was brought up in their resolution. The language used was bold and clearly unequivocal, to the point of risking some racist accusations from the more liberal factions. The resolution states that the Senate:

            Strongly condemns the use of innocent civilians as human shields;

            Calls on the international community to recognize and condemn Hamas’ use of human shields;

            Places responsibility for the rocket attacks against Israel on Hamas and other terrorist organizations, such as Palestine Islamic Jihad;

            Supports the sovereign right of the Government of Israel to defend its territory and its citizens from Hamas’ rocket attacks, kidnapping attempts, and the use of tunnels and other means to carry out attacks against Israel;

            Expresses condolences to the families of the innocent victims on both sides of the conflict; supports Palestinian civilians who reject Hamas and all forms of terrorism and violence, desiring to live in peace with their Israeli neighbors;

            Supports efforts to demilitarize the Gaza Strip, removing Hamas’s means to target Israel, including its use of tunnels, rockets, and other means; and

            Condemns the United Nations Human Rights Council’s biased resolution establishing a commission of inquiry into Israel’s Gaza operations.

            This is such a departure from the regular libelous tirades we hear from government officials, especially
            considering that it was a by-partisan vote. The victims and the perpetrators were actually properly described and recognized as such. It will be interesting to see how Hamas and especially Mahmoud Abbas will
            react to this accusation, especially in the wake of their push for global recognition.

            Another question comes to mind regarding
            Palestinian recognition. How in the world can countries like France, Ireland, Sweden, Spain and England continue to offer their support for a
            Palestinian State, co-ruled by Fatah and Hamas AND keep a straight face?

            Could this resolution be the first of many, finally putting all parties involved where they belong? Additionally, several congressmen are trying to push the US Department of Treasury into investigating how and where some funds are being disbursed by the
            US and funneled for terrorism.

            Let us not forget that just few weeks ago, the “peaceful” Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) was listed by the United Arab Emirates as a terrorist organization, amongst 82 others such as Al-Qaeda and Islamic State. The shock of course was that it came from a Muslim state.

            While Obama manouvres to bring in the terrorist and slaving regime of Qatar into legitimate recognition as a mediator and supporter of the Palestinians, so that it can continue to secretly fund the arming of Hamas and muslim crime co., since he actually wants to also legitimise Hamas as a negotiating partner in the process of violence against Israel, we are working to oust Obama. Yes, we have finally come to terms with Joe Biden, and we now think he is preferable to Obama by any measure.

          • His Excellency

            “Palestine” has never been a country. It was a Soviet-invented “nationality” that was created during the 1960s in order to try and discredit Israel’s right to exist. The Soviet Union was responsible for almost more atrocities than any other country. Its foreign policy has influenced and controls the world today.

        • Lea

          so how do you get those guest votes? are you a muslim? This is mostly the kind of stunts muslims carry out?

        • watsa46

          There is indeed a Visible Jewish lobby but a far greater INVISIBLE anti-Semitic lobby made of Leftists Jews, Sheiks and their petro$, powerful Orientalists, large secular antisemites etc…. The EU in general does not out of blatant antisemitism or ignorance or personal interest, support Israel + oil/gas dependence.
          On top of this life of individuals is irrelevant to the Islamists be they Shia or Sunnis.

        • truebearing

          Obama doesn’t even acknowledge the pressure from the Jewish lobby, other than to occasionally pander to liberal Jews for money. Nice try.

          The US has defended Israel’s right to exist, which members of the Security Council have failed to respect. The US has stepped in to defend a nation that is being relentlessly attacked by bigots much like yourself. The problem isn’t Israel or the role the US has played. The problem is primarily the bloodthirsty, genocidal Muslims. The secondary problem is the racist leftists in Europe and the US who want Israel destroyed because it is A) A God-centered Nation and B) an independent, successful capitalistic democracy.

          The UN has failed in far more places than the Middle East, Bozo. They have failed to one degree or another in everything they have ever attempted.

          The US has a vote on the SC and isn’t obligated to vote with the racist, genocidal cabal. Until Obama, the US was the conscience of the UN. No longer.

          You are the one who has no respect for international law, idiot. The UN violates its own charter every day by meddling in the internal affairs of nations, including the US and Israel. Don’t give me any of your transnationalistic bullsh*t.

          The world’s greatest practitioners of brute force are Muslims. They behead children, burn teachers alive, crucify Christians, etc. etc. etc. They openly state their goal of destroying all who disagree with their demonic religion, so if you think those who advocate brute force and disrespect international law are wrong, why aren’t you condemning those who follow a religion that demands of its adherents: violence, rape, enslavement, murder, even torture of all non-believers? Muslims are everything you falsely claim to oppose, liar and hypocrite.

          You can interpret things any way you want. Fools as delusional and dishonest as yourself always do. That doesn’t mean you are right, however. Your belief in subjective truth is the failure here.

        • His Excellency

          The world is controlled by the Communist/Baathist/Islamist lobby that influences the UN. You ignore the slaughter of Tibetans and the illegal occupation of Tibet because you support Communist China and its largest supporter, neo-Communist Russia. You support Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, the infamous Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the godfather of “Palestinian” nationalism who was allied with the Axis forces during World War II. Why do you support totalitarianism, misogyny and homophobia so much, fool? Why do you support Sharia Law, fool? And why do you support Communist Cuba so much, dummy?

    • Geppetto

      There is no “peace process.” If you’re keeping abreast of this 60 some odd years of the so called “peace process” it would be obvious that the Palestinians, nor any predominantly Muslim entity in the Middle East, want “peace.” They want Israel gone, “Palestine from the river to the sea.” In other words, no two state solution……..ever. This is not a political imperative it is a far stronger religious imperative that will not end, will likely evolve, once again, into another military confrontation and may result in the use of nuclear weapons if Iran succeeds in its “peaceful” quest. There will be no peaceful solution to this madness.

      • Vinegar Hill

        There has been no “peace process” partly because what I wrote in my first paragraph and, added to this, the Israeli “offers” of peace have been nonstarters due to their total one-sideness.
        The PA altered their Charter to the satisfaction of Israel and where did that get them?
        To hide behind religion as a cause for the failure of peace is to deny the fact of a complete and utterly immoral situation whereby the Israel government and its supporters attempt to dehumanise the Palestinians and continually spin myths about the “rights” of Israel.

        • Ellen_L

          Who has been hiding where?! who has used religion as an excuse to attack whom? and who used the Gazans as human shields, even to murdering those who saw through it and refused? The other posters are right, you are delusional as well as sour.
          To more rational souls, be careful to not let fear of theology and respect for the religion of others blind you to the obvious facts and humanity of the issues.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Your comment is a perfect example of dehumanising the Palestinian people.

          • DaveTheSuave

            What a useless troll. Do you know how to spout anything other than typical leftist “bleeding-heart” dithering? Doubtful.

          • billobillo54

            The Palestinian people are dehumanized by their cleptocratic, murdering leadership who use this conflict to fill their own pockets with dollars and Euros in the billions.

          • Lea

            Arab muslims dehumanise themselves. They value their life less than we kaffirs value them. They constantly tell us this through their own words and actions.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Pal-e-SWINIAN and ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qada, Muslim Brotherhood, Taliban behavior dehumanizes them.

            See Pakistan, ISIS, Fascist Iran.

          • His Excellency

            Your comment is a perfect example of dehumanizing the Israeli people.

        • Geppetto

          Jew hatred is irrational to put it mildly.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Alan Johnston, a British journalist was kidnapped in Gaza by islamists, and the British Journalists Union voted to sanction Israel.

            WTF!

          • Lea

            You will find that the British Journalist Union is comprised of a bunch of masons, marxists and muslims, with a few misguided christians to boot.

            The fact that journalists were prevented from providing information free from intimidation and restrictions in Gaza during the last war, and this body does what it does, is proof that the islamomarxists are now in control, not only there, but throughout our european and western institutions.

          • Geppetto

            It’s the international version of pacifying the bully by piling on his victim. Cowardice disguised as pompous self righteousness perpetrated out of a growing fear of an increasingly violent, brutal and barbaric bully, the Islamic State, which Obama says has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is the elephant in the room that the appeasers choose to ignore or disguise as some irrelevant fringe Kooks that hijacked a religion. The longer this delusion lingers the more urgent and dangerous the threat becomes.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Why did Israel create such a situation that exists in Gaza?

          • His Excellency

            Why did the KGB create the Palestine Liberation Organization?

          • Vinegar Hill

            I agree with you but fail to see why you have brought up the issue of “Jew hatred”.

          • Geppetto

            Jew Hatred and Holocaust denial is the cause of the growing sympathy for the Palestinians. Ignorance regarding the history, culture and supremacist, hegemonic goals of Islam since the time of Mohammad in the 7th century CE, is at the very root of this tree of hatred, for Jews most especially, who Jihadists (Muslim warriors) refer to as apes and pigs. While this is not being shouted from the rooftops it has been said over and over again by prominent figures within the predominantly Muslim world.

            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/memrireport.html

            http://www.memri.org/report/en/print754.htm

            Sounds like the ravings of a lunatic to be sure and is habitually labeled as Islamophobia by the likes of the Palestinians and all other Muslim Brotherhood organizations around the world; e.g., CAIR, ISNA, the OIC, etc., for that exact purpose. Don’t focus on the message, disparage the messenger. The message is also so far removed from the West’s notion of modern civilization and religion that it is almost universally dismissed, out of hand, as the ravings of a lunatic extremist fringe; “Islamophobes.” Is it any wonder why the facts are never aggressively pursued or, more importantly, reported?

            Note also, how in the immediate aftermath of any horrific act of brutality, whether by a so called lone wolf or Al Qaeda or the most recent incarnation, the Islamic State, et al, including acts accompanied by shouts of Allahu Akbar (an Islamic phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning “God is greater” or “God is greatest) the response from the Council on American Islamic Relations and the OIC is a demand for protection allegedly required to prevent the subsequent hate crimes “sure to follow.” That FBI hate crime statistics never show Muslims to be anywhere near a predominant group plagued by hate crimes is never mentioned by the legacy media. The loud, bleating pleas for protection are nothing but a very effective scam to deflect attention away from the facts. Unfortunately, it works.

            http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2013-hate-crime-statistics

            Below is a 20 minute speech by the supreme Islamophobe, Mr. Robert Spencer, followed by 15 minutes of Q&A. For those who don’t know Mr. Spencer, have little except the prominent perception of Islam as the religion of peace, and can suppress the inculcated reluctance to listen to anything that emanates from the mouth of a so called “Islamophobe,” this might create a tiny spark of curiosity to learn more about the so called “religion of peace” and how it has effectively hidden its culpability in all the horror that is brazenly and openly exploding, in all its gory details, around the world.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yT6jnG0hjQ

            The Palestinians are Muslims. It will not take much careful research to begin to realize that the world is under attack by the ideology called Islam. The so called Palestinian peace process is a massive hoax that the west has not been able to recognize, much less define after over 40 years. It is Islam that is the driving force behind the Palestinian quest for the so called “two state” solution which is a euphemism for Israel’s annihilation.

            http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/02/27/the-peace-process-a-short-history/

            p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; direction: ltr; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); widows: 2; orphans: 2; }p.western { font-family: “Times New Roman”,serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.cjk { font-family: “Times New Roman”,serif; font-size: 12pt; }p.ctl { font-family: “Times New Roman”,serif; font-size: 12pt; }a:visited { color: rgb(128, 0, 128); }a.western:visited { }a.cjk:visited { }a.ctl:visited { }a:link { color: rgb(0, 0, 255); }

            This cannot be Israel’s fault because no matter
            what concessions Israel has made or is encouraged or chooses to make
            in the future, it will never be enough. For Israel, making endless
            concessions is suicide.

            Read up or not. Your choice.

          • Lea

            However the hatred for evil islam, is not. This is not hatred for all muslims, most of whom are victims of islam, or the descendants of victims of islam.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Abbas is in the 6th year of his “4 year term”.

          Such is the “democratic” Arab way.

          • Vinegar Hill

            What about an example of the Israeli “democratic way”?

          • His Excellency

            Arabs living in Israel have more rights and liberties as Israeli citizens than citizens living in other countries in the Middle East, which, by the way, many of those countries prohibit Jews on their soil. Yet, you hate Israel and support Islamism. Islam, the religion of peace? More like Islam, the religion of bigots, and you support the bigots.

        • Lea

          Has the Hamas Charter been altered? If so, it is still pretty damning and very koranic.

        • Lea

          I find it the other way round. The arab muslims are dehumanising themselves really, what with voting for a cruel and criminal Hamas, and then providing themselves and their children as sacrifices so that the media can wage a perception war on Israel.

          And I see mostly muslims using their cultish justifications to spew out the most vile and racist hatred towards the Jews. Truly I have never seen such a thing, that muslim leaders and scholars, and so many of them, speaking such hatred and murder, on so many public platforms, as I have seen the muslims do.

          Other victims, of muslims of course, do not do this. They quietly try to build up their shattered lives, if they are left to live. A prime case in point would be Cyprus.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Your first paragrapuh is a fine example of dehumanising the Palestinian people.
            Your second paragraph is a fine example of painting Muslims with the same brush.
            Life is so simple….isn’t it?

          • His Excellency

            Just about everything you post are examples of demonizing Israelis and glorifying Islamists.

        • MukeNecca

          Where do you get all these guest votes? Can one rent them?

          • Vinegar Hill

            Psstttt….there are on special offer…..10 for E20…..I can arrange a deal if you are interested!!!

          • MukeNecca

            I’m sure you can.
            Otherwise, thank you, not interested.

      • itaintmojo

        More like a death process. It’s the only process Caliphate butchers seem to care about.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          The Death Process as practiced by Islamists in ISIS controlled areas in Syria where 200,000 have died – Arabs killing Arabs – because it is their “culture”.

          • itaintmojo

            They kill Muslims and everyone else too. Disgusting what they did in Pakistan. ISIS is is on the move still. Obama insists on letting the same thing happen in Afpukistan. Where the Taliban will enlarge the current Caliphste revival. It’s all so sick. Sharia butchers selling their brand, using the net, looking to turn the world into a real live Nintendo game, only in real life heads are rolling. God help us from these evil butchers. Let this be one of many Chaukahs where the uncivil beasts are kept at bay.

          • cajunwarthog

            My view point is let them kill each other until the bitter end.

          • Lea

            That suggested solution would work if it were not for the fact that we have 40% of them living in the west.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          I prefer the Nakba process.

          The ETERNAL NAKBA process.

          • itaintmojo

            Victimhood is the worst hood I know. Gazans and Ramallahans, have a horrible case of victimhood with a side order of deep rooted hatred for Jews. They are not friendly. They are extremely hostile. Which will gather them counter hostilities. If they can’t get off their victimhood addiction, then I hope they figure it out someday. I’m not holding my breath. They can Nakba all they want. If they like sadism so much they should keep it to themselves.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            There’s plenty of sadism in ISIS controlled Syria. Beheading of captives, posted for the world to see on the Internet, as was the sadistic treatment of Gadaffi by his captors.

          • Lea

            And obama and nato actually helped them to do that and now today we have another afghanistan. Just like the west is so concerned about assad and is also helping to turn the syria into an afghanistan as well, and the hope no doubt is to have it spread from there.

    • TMRYAx2

      “Resolution 242 in no way refers to Jerusalem, and this omission was deliberate”
      - Arthur Goldberg, Co-Author UN Resolution 242

    • itaintmojo

      Hi, glad to meet you. My name is Abu Mazen. I extend my hand to you, you filthy pig occupier, land theif, apartheid practicing zionazi whom I plan on happily murdering for martyrdoms sake. Let’s negotiate shall we? (Big warm Taqqiya smile for effect)

      Who in there right mind would talk to people like that about anything??

      • Vinegar Hill

        “Let me speak to you honestly, frankly, openheartedly. You area liar.” Le Duc Tho to Henry Kissinger, 1972.
        You invented your quote I did not. So anything is possible as per my example. (If you are stuck as to where the conversation took place I can help.)

        • itaintmojo

          I did not invent. The relationship between Abbass and Bibi is similar to what I described. So I witnessed it, rather than invented it. I was only asking you to see the relationship for what it is. Now if you and I were to meet one another to discuss me buying your lawn mower, let alone borders, I think one of us would get off on the wrong foot immediately with an introduction such as I described. Especially if it got back to either one of us that the other was bad mouthing the other to anyone who would listen. And we were telling our kids all sorts of mean lies about the other. Teaching them to hate. I don’t know about you, Vinegar, but I would not sell my lawnmower to someone who is so hostile towards me. This is basic every day courtesy. All aggression will be responded to. Either come with sincere good intent to discuss, or stay away. Wasting time is a form of sin. We stand on alert and will do all we can to avoid and thwart hostile acts. Peace isn’t possible when one side is filled with hate. Neither is exchanging the lawnmower.

          • Vinegar Hill

            The point I was making was to show that peace agreements have been made and successfully so, even when one side (or perhaps both sides) lie in the process. If that can happen, then so too can the Israeli Palestinian conflict be solved in this way.
            Knowing what BIbi said about the Oslo agreement could be a modern day example and I certainly would not buy a used car from him. These are, however, some of the obstacles that have to be overcome and it will take a strong leader to carry the process through to the end.

          • itaintmojo

            Unfortunately I don’t beleive Sharia ideology allows for any compromise with a Jewish stàte. Perhaps you need to look further into Sharia. The kind which Hamas practices. Anyone who thinks they can negotiate with Caliphate butchers is uninformed in my opinion. Not paying attention to their actions. Or simply on their side. Arabs want their lands Judenrein. Till that changes there is nothing to discuss. Only people to defend.

          • Lea

            True, and if the international community, the west is truly concerned about human rights and freedom, then it would demand from the so called palestinians to open their countries to Jews to settle there and not to have their homes removed, should a state be declared. And due to security issues, Israel should be able to provide guardians for the Jews living there.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Why are you writing about negotiating with a Caliphate? The issue is about Palestinians and Israelis trying to negotiate peace which involves the setting up of a state of Palestine and other issues surrounding such a treaty.

          • itaintmojo

            Abbas and Arafat before him are on the side of Caliphste butchers. The are beholden and committed to their Sharia doctrine. This will never allow them to negotiate honestly. We all know what will happen to Abbass if he ever dare show sincerity towards tolerating Israel. He would end up like Anwar Sadat. And he might have to stop filling his Swiss accounts from aid money. There is no one there to talk with. And I don’t see it changing for the moment.

          • Ken Kelso

            https://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=78835.0
            Palestinian television still glorifies terror attacks against Israel.
            Incitement against Israel persists in Palestinian television and radio broadcasts, where places such a Haifa and Tel Aviv are considered to be part of ‘occupied Palestine.’
            Avi Issacharoff
            Feb.19, 2012

          • watsa46

            13 centuries of Islamic history suggests that words and words on paper are meaningless for the Islamists.
            By the way, Muslims should recognize that the 1st ISLAMIST was no one else than Muhammad.

          • Vinegar Hill

            Over 13 centuries of Jewish history have they ever gone to war? Would that influence their attitude towards “words on paper”?

          • watsa46
          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            Peace agreements cannot be made when one side wants to destroy the other and has never given up that goal.

          • Vinegar Hill

            The Palestinians have given official recognition of the state of Israel. So what are you on about with your comment?

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            That’s the kind of lie I would expect from you.

        • crazyboy11

          you are the one who is obsessively delusional and arrogant

    • iluvisrael

      28 ‘guest votes’ – I bet you do a lot of things to yourself.

    • billobillo54

      Mr. Vinegar Hill masks his Jew hatred with obfuscating phrases like “peace process” and “peaceful solution” (i.e. Israeli national suicide). The only “peaceful solution” is that the Arabs disavow their eternal hatred of Jews, put down their weapons and stop murdering civilians. Arabs need to also reject the evil and cleptocratic PA/Hamas Abbas led gang of murderers. The only prescription for peace in Israel and Judea/Samaria is the One State Solution. Apply Israeli law to Judea/Samaria and allow Arabs to become legal citizens (as a large and silent percentage of them want, but are afraid to say due to the real and present threat of being butchered by Palestinian Authority and Hamas led murderers).

      • Lea

        I upped that, although I am not sure how a one state solution would work, since the demographic aspect always remains an a threat, just like it is in euoropean countries. Communism and islamism rides in on the wings of democracy and then crushes it.

        • billobillo54

          Lea: Read Caroline Glick’s book: “The Israeli Solution…” The demographics actually highly favor the Israelis. The birth rate among Arabs living in the PA is low and they are actually experiencing a drop in population from low birth rates and high rates of immigration out of the PA. In contrast, the Israeli birth rate is close to 4 children per family. Also, the Arabs have a better life in Israel than they do anywhere in the Muslim world. The “Two State Solution” is irrational, has failed for decades, and will end in genocide against the Israelis.

          • Lea

            No, the reason why the arabs are so prolific in these modern times, is due to the west providing them with medical knowledge etc to lower the mortality. And all the muslim conflicts do is drive the migration jihad to the West. There must not be enough room in islamic countries for them, since though they hate kaffirs, they opt to go west not east. The muslims have a deeply ingrained hatred for the people of the book that has been engraved in their hearts and minds shaping their mindset to believe with utter conviction that muslims should not be ruled by kaffirs. No, the war is not going to end, unfortunately. I am tired now, so excuse me if I am being pessimistic. It would be great, if only there were not so many muslim psychopaths.

          • billobillo54

            Do not fear…The Messiah will save us (i.e. those who put their trust in Him, e.g. Psalm 2) and His people, Israel.

          • Lea

            No fear. Perfect peace that transcends all understanding. Thank you to our wonderful Jesus!

        • Ellen_L

          There could be areas designated to have local laws favoring Muslims, others for the Ultra Orthodox Jews, and still others for Christians and other groups with the main governance secular in that it respects everyone with no one getting favors. Israel is not a theocracy although it is not perfectly free of religious laws.

          As for democracy, that is a real concern which is why a constitutional republic is a better answer. Our constitution (US) is not the only possible answer. They could write one with a Knesset but set legally, written (rather than assumed) limits on the government. It is not so much the form of our government (though it was carefully thought out and in general (until recently it was ignored) has worked as well as any) that counts but rather the explicit naming of the limits of government and the rights of the individual citizens.

          I suspect but do not know that the Israeli government is more republican (in the sense of being representative but not mob rule) even without a written constitution. Perhaps someone will tell us.

          • billobillo54

            Caroline Glick’s view is to apply Israeli law throughout Judea/Samaria just like the Israelis currently do in the Golan. Arab-Muslims could apply for legal residency and eventually citizenship. The law in the “West Bank” is not Israeli law. It is a military-occupation law. Once the Arabs were under Israeli law with the rights guaranteed by Israeli law the Arabs would be free to prosper and live secure lives. This they are not doing now under the PA.

          • Ellen_L

            Thank you. I did not stop to think that there are several areas and had wondered about the ones referenced. The local residents would definitely be better off under Israeli law than fighting it. I had heard that polls of Arabs in Jerusalem found the majority would prefer to live under Israeli rule than under the PA.

            Is incitement to violence allowed under military-occupation law? (at least that explains the excuse to call the area occupied even though it is actually legally contested.)

            Local rules could allow Muslims and others special rules for neighborhoods. It was strange to learn that Israel has even more diversity than the US in its small area. Big things sometimes come in small packages. Happy Chanukah!

          • billobillo54

            I have only read Mrs. Glick’s book once. I can’t answer all the questions. One of the premises in her book is to emphasize that if and when Judea/Samaria goes under Israeli law that the law would have to be enforced strictly. God bless you. Yes, happy Chanukah. I am an Evangelical Protestant, who like many Protestants, love Israel, are sorry for what has been done to Jews in Jesus’ Name, want everyone to know that it is Jesus who teaches us to love Israel (and everyone), and will not turn our backs or be silent about our innocent Israeli Jewish friend’s plight.

    • watsa46

      U don’t know what you are talking about. 1) The Arabs reject an essential element of the English version of 242. 2) 99% of the UN, controlled by the Islamic majority, is against Israel. 3) U cannot impose peace if one side goal is the destruction of the other. 4) Without a “CIVILIZED Islam”, the situation is hopeless.
      If you are not aware of these basic facts, U need to study a lot more.

      • Vinegar Hill

        Why don’t you address the point made in my first paragraph? I can only assume you are unable to do so.
        Why do you reject a “legal” approach being the correct way to solve the conflict? Have you no respect for international law?

    • Lea

      To believe that there will ever be peace in the Middle East while islam’s muslims dominate the show, is exceptionally naive at the most, and incredibly but deliberately deceptive.

      • Ellen_L

        Yeah, but they are the people who happen to live there. What is needed is reform of Islam much as both Judaism and Christianity have been reformed (more than once) and have various movements for disagreeing groups. Islam is not a monolith but the groups can stop fighting over the disagreements and trying to rule everyone else. With modern communications, we should be able to reverse the bad teaching fairly quickly once it finally stops.

        • Lea

          Actually, 90% of the people who were living in Palestine in 1948 were the descendants of arabs who had murdered the men and enslaved the women, whom gave birth to children who are now of jewish descent. There are also the christians too, whom suffered the same cruel and oppressive fate as the jews, whom are today muslims. This is the result of the invasion and subsequent colonisation of these lands by muslims. A historical injustice that should be set right.

          Islam has already undergone its reformation and this led to salafism. When christianity reformed, which means it returned to biblical christianity, it led to the complete opposite result: secular democratic freedoms.

          The differing denominations might disagree, but they do not wage a bloodly war against each other. The war that took place between the catholics and the protestants separated religion and state.

          Whereas with islam, the muslims have been murdering one another for 1400 years already and still going strong.

          Are you being serious? Reverse the bad teaching with modern communications quickly once the fighting stops? To reform islam it would require that more than half the koran would have to be destroyed, along with most of the hadiths and definitely at least 70% of the sira.

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      The Europeans are not neighbors to the Middle East. And having played a major role in murdering most of their own Jewish population, amounting to about a third of the Jews in the world, persecuting those who survived, and aiding terrorist groups pledged to destroy Israel where a plurality of the world’s Jews live today, Europe can hardly claim to be an honest broker.

    • Ken Kelso

      Vinegar HIll, the Europeans are financiers of Palestinian terrorism against Israel.

      http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/joseph-puder/eu-unrestrained-support-of-the-pa-is-inimical-to-peace/
      Palestinian Terrorism: Funded by the EU?
      by Joseph Puder
      April 21, 2014

    • Ken Kelso

      There is a primary historical fact, that must be established now. There has never been, I repeat NEVER been, a civilization, Entity, or a nation referred to as “Palestine” There was never a Palestinian tribe, and there was never a Palestinian country in the Land of Israel to begin with! Israel is not for sale. It is not a pie to be sliced up and served to a clan of killers and their supporters.

      Israel existed 1500 years before Mohammad was born

      There was never in history any state called Palestine governed by Palestinians.
      Tell us when did it ever belong to Palestinians? Answer Never. It was never a Pal land to begin with, so your question is invalid.
      The Palestinians never governed or controlled any land before 1993.
      To make it simple, please tell me one Palestinian President before 1993?
      Keep thinking.
      The Palestinians want a capitol, which they never had, in a country that never existed.

      Israel is under the BRUTAL occupation of terror by Islam..
      Free Israel from the terrorism of Islam.

  • USARetired

    Congress must tell Obama, The Muslim, to keep his Islamic Nose out of Israel’s business! Then address the UN as well!

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Tell the OIC, the Organization of Islamist Countries to get their own house in order before their opinions will have any merit.

  • Giborei1967

    To all the decent pro-Israel posters here. Ignore and flag the IslamoNazi,
    anti-Semitic hamorim like Howe, Nekema, Vinegar, MMC858, Handelman, etc. They are the enemy, practicing taqqiya, trying to provoke you. Howe retended to be an American Jew until I outed him as a vile liar, likely a British Muslim. He thought “Labour” was spelled the same in the US. Lo magiya lahem kavod a tshuva. Vic Rosenthal wrote a reality-based little essay which answers much:

    We are tired of hearing that withdrawal from Judea and Samaria will bring peace. We know and you know that it would bring another Gaza. So stop saying it.

    We are tired of hearing that land beyond the Green Line is ‘Palestinian land’. The Green Line is simply an armistice line that has no political significance. You know this too.

    We are tired of hearing about the “Palestinian people.” They are no different from the Arabs of Syria or Egypt, from which most of their ancestors migrated in the last 150 years or so. There is no Palestinian language or religion, and until very recently they considered themselves simply ‘Arabs’. Their culture is almost entirely defined by their opposition to the Jewish state.

    We are tired of hearing that “the Palestinians deserve a state.”
    We are indigenous here, not them, and their behavior entitles them more to a
    trial at The Hague than to a state. And they certainly don’t deserve our state,
    which is the only state they want.

    We are tired of hearing about ‘The Occupation’. As Naftali Bennett said the other day, you can’t be an occupier in your own land. We are tired of hearing that “settlements are illegal under international law.” They aren’t.

    We are tired of hearing that “settlement construction is an
    obstacle to peace.” Arab rejectionism and terrorism is the reason there isn’t
    peace. By the way, we are pro-peace. We are just not pro-suicide.

    We are tired of hearing about the 5 million (or whatever
    ridiculous number there are alleged to be) ‘Palestinian refugees’ or the
    ‘Palestinian diaspora’. There were about 700,000 Arabs that left their homes in
    1948, mostly of their own volition, more or less at the same time as the
    800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries. We resettled ours — resettle
    yours.

    We are tired of hearing anything from anyone associated with the UN.

    The UN is a parasitic and criminal enterprise dominated by our mortal
    enemies.

    We are tired of stupid post-colonialist rhetoric. We aren’t
    ‘colonists’ and Arabs don’t have the right to murder us in the name of
    ‘resistance’. Talking this way reveals you as moral imbeciles.

    You can’t recognize a state that has no borders, no single government, and no economy.

    We know we can’t depend on any kind of security guarantee from
    anyone except the IDF. So stop being insulted because we don’t trust you. And
    don’t ask us to give up any nuclear weapons we might or might not have.

    We know that the left-wing parties in Israel are bankrupt of ideas. We aren’t going to vote for them, no matter how much you would like us to. So don’t bother trying to influence our election.

    Don’t believe what you read in Ha’aretz.

    Jerusalem, undivided, is the capital of the state of Israel. Get used to it, because you can’t change it.

  • John Pepin

    So if the UN votes to reward terrorism, who’s children will they send to Israel to force the Israeli army from their land? Will Christians be forced to die so that terrorists can get more land from which to launch terror attacks against the West? Will we be forced to pay for a terrorist army? I am amazed these new class progressive elite have brains enough to keep their heart beating… oh yea, they are heartless. That explains it.

  • a_proud_goyim

    Obama has two years to betray and destroy Israel.

    • SCREW SOCIALISM

      Lame duck obama will Fail.

      • cajunwarthog

        He may fail in getting everything he wants, but in the meantime , his destruction of this Nation will almost be complete.

      • a_proud_goyim

        Like national health care the destruction of Israel is a top priority of the democrat party.

    • Ellen_L

      If his latest round of nonsense does not get him impeached and this time found guilty. He is treading a fine line between the unwise and the illegal.

      • a_proud_goyim

        I support impeachment , but it will never happen. The senate will never be able to muster the 2/3 vote to impeach,.

  • Lanna

    We who understand history, know that there will never be a two state solution living side by side, that is a farce to move in on Jewish land and be able to attack Jewish establishments with easier access!

  • carpe diem 36

    Israel is a fact on the ground, and was such for the last 70 years and the world recognized that it has the right to be such. Why the change now? why is it that when Israel is a free and successful country it is hated by all nations? I believe that the Palestinians cannot stand to see the stark contrast between their failures in everything and Israel’s success in everything, from agriculture to weapons to education to medicine to electronics to the kind of life no Palestinians enjoy. So they feel they must destroy this. Israel has an enemy now in the white house and he is making this vote in the UN possible by his treatment of Netanyahu. What a disgrace this man is!!!

    • truebearing

      The change is because we have a Muslim president, Europe is filled with Muslims, and the UN has devolved into a mob of bullies.

      • carpe diem 36

        the world i learning, very slowly, who and what Muslims are, and the more of the in Europe the worst it will get, both for England, France and Germany. I will have my schadenfreude when we see what all those “immigrants” are bringing to europe. We already see what they are bringing to Australia.

  • http://historyscoper.com/ T.L. Winslow

    The U.N. has a timetable for Israel’s destruction? Sorry, it’s the outfit whose days are numbered. From day one the U.N. has been a misbegotten creature, living off U.S. money while welcoming every enemy the U.S. has. Clearly the U.S. thought it ruled the world since WWII, and wanted to keep its friends close but its enemies closer, like the Godfather, but when it comes to Israel, the U.S. will always back it 100% despite the U.N., because Jews have a historical right to a homeland with capital in Jerusalem, and they don’t want to be on the wrong side of history. They know that anybody who tried to keep the Jews down was destroyed, despite all odds, and they don’t want to be next. The Jewish state of Israel will still be here a thousand years from now, while the U.N. might not, nor the horrible Muslim World that’s the only reason Israel is under siege and which perverts the U.N. daily. For the U.N. to have any legitimacy it should oust all nations that call themselves Muslim or are members of the OIC, and quarantine the Muslim World until they call it quits with a Great Muslim Apostasy, begging forgiveness for 1400 years of Muhammad’s Jihad and seeking to rejoin the human race as individuals, with the help of the shining light of Israel, resulting in permanent peace in the Middle East. Imagine 1.x billion ex-Muslims spending their lives like Israelis do bettering the human race with science and technology instead of spending their best hours on ridiculous slavelike public prayers, and the rest of their time worrying about who’s about to apostasize and how to scare them into staying in the Umma. How many trillions of hours have Muslims wasted on their daily prayers to a fraud god? Fly with the eagles by reading my free Historyscoper’s Islam Watch blog, the #1 source of daily links to all important articles and op-eds.

  • Geppetto

    The west, including Israel’s one time most enthusiastic and dedicated supporter, the United States, has grown weary in the face of the determined, belligerent, aggressive, persistent resolve of the Muslim Brotherhood and it’s myriad off shoots in the Middle East; IS but one of many. The inevitability and
    reality of what will likely ensue and how they would have to react militarily to protect the much maligned and only democratic state in the Middle East, overwhelms this current crop of “leaders” in the west. They hide their fear and befuddlement by twisting the narrative and gradually shifting all the blame for the turmoil in the Middle East to Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel, both being aggressively transformed and condemned as evil pariahs.

    And when the violent Muslim cult finish destroying Israel and turn on the west, Obama, Cameron, etc. will likely be long gone leaving the once powerful democracies they “led” to fend for themselves while struggling to rebuild and regain their once overwhelming military superiority and wondering, “will this madness ever end?” Answer: No, it won’t, nor will hiding behind the facade of political correctness, multiculturalism and a desire for world peace.

    The abject, overwhelming inability of the West to recognize the true nature of this sectarian enemy, Islam, may prove to be a catastrophic disruption in, and the end of, the world the west has come to take for granted. The inconceivability of this only adds to the urgency to deny and ignore the threat.

    • kiwi41

      The time has come for selective traitors in the west to be deleted. The old CIA did it in the past , not always for the right reasons.

      But they can redeem themselves….starting at home. And then expanding their horizons. The beauty is that all the scumbags that need exterminating are hated by various different groups; it would be impossible to place blame
      in a deletion that had no claim of responsibility.

    • Ellen_L

      Bitter truth. Let’s hope that the warning will be heard and the bitter end avoided. Well said.

  • watsa46

    If the US does not veto, Israel will have to annex!

  • steve b

    ISRAEL SHOULD DROP ONE OF THEIR NUKES ON THE UNITED NATIONS BUILDING AND SAVE US ALL FROM THIS SELF APPOINTED INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT

  • Vinegar Hill

    I am unaware that, and don’t see how, the present proposal that may go to the SC will negate 242.
    If peace is reached Hamas will have no basis upon which it can carry out your fear of destruction of Israel. The US will defend the existence of Israel but not its conquests.

    • watsa46

      The 99% Muslims want Jews out of their own land. I wonder what news media U use to get your info. The rejection by the fana Muslims has induced the growth of extremism in IL. Not the other way around. U want reasonable people to make insane concessions to Insane people who refuse to make reasonable concessions.

  • Vinegar Hill

    As I mentioned in an earlier reply to you I think that the rug will be pulled from under their feet (Hamas) and they will not get the Palestinian support for aggressive action against Israel.
    Regarding your reference to propaganda being taught in Palestinian schools the very same (but more subtle) process takes place in Israeli school texts regarding the Palestinians.
    Two wrongs, however, do not make it right. Both sides need to publish new texts free of propaganda, subtle or otherwise.

    • Lea

      Well dear, it seems that the EU has seen fit to delist Hamas from the terrorist organisation sanction. So they have legitimised this gang of koranic criminals. At this point, one wonders is there anyone sane in this world anymore?

      The EU and UN and US did not even pause and ask:

      When was the last election in Gaza? Perhaps we should give the good Gazans the opportunity to decide if they want to continue with this criminal group as their authority?

      I hear that the Gazans are under immense oppression by Hamas, who implements sharia, and behaves like the normal islamic tyrant, towards this people. But who really cares about any of that?

  • cajunwarthog

    So true!

  • Lea

    You do realise that the enemies of Israel are aware of this standpoint and will do everything to prove it otherwise.

  • RIckuh

    If the UN passes such a resolution and Israel does not comply, will a large multinational military force move to the region and attempt to force Israel into compliance? If that scenario is remotely feasible, then civilized countries around the world should dismantle the UN.

  • Vinegar Hill

    Why should they state all territory? It clearly states that Israel has to withdraw their “armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict”.
    When the section on secure borders is mentioned in 242 do they write “all”. Imagine some borders will be secure others not. Again, when it refers to international waterways and guaranteeing freedom on them. Imagine some waterways will be safe others not. That is your line of “argument”, which does not make sense.
    If, as you try to demonstrate, a withdrawl takes place in some territories but not all, then the principle contained in the Withdrwal Phrase will not be fully completed.
    Added to this you are implying that Israel can retain some of the territories but this would be illegal. Do you think that the SC advocates the negation of one of the princilples of the UN which is the abolition of the right to accquisition through conquest?

    Eban wrote: “The words ‘in the recent conflict’ convert the principle of eliminating occupation
    into a mathematically precise formula for restoring the June 4 Map.” He tried to persuade Caradon to eliminate this phrase along with ‘Emphasising the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war’. He was unsuccessful in his efforts. This failed attempt to have both phrases deleted shows that he appreciated the significance of the wording, and how it would make your point untenable.
    Finally, the records of the debates in the Council demonstrate before the resolution was made official that 10 members all agreed that it was to be withdrawl from all territories. The remaining 5 did not.

  • Ellen_L

    Thank you FrontPage for the chance to discuss issues. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation – even if the participants disagreed.

  • Vinegar Hill

    Under the British mandate Britain had little legal basis to issue a declaration about territory outside its borders, let alone a declaration that jeopardised the rights of the inhabitants. Balfour recognised the flagrant contradiction between the letter of the Covenant of the L of N and the Declaration. They did not consult the wishes of the inhabitants of the country. President Wilson of the US stated that in support of self-determination the Palestinian population, about 9/10ths of of the whole area, are against the entire Zionist programme.
    The legal interpretation of the declaration, the drafting history of the declaration and international law at that time is that Britain intended to provide a sanctuary for Jews in Palestine….ie to establish a home not a state for the Jews.
    The partition drew plans which allocated 57% of Palestine to the Jews even though they made up only 30% of the population. The arabs called for an advisory opinion from the ICJ and this was refused. The Palestinian/Arabs were justified in claiming that the plan was a violation of their right to self-determination. So why accept it?
    Resolution 181 is nonbinding and has no legal basis. The resolution did not authorise a Jewish dominated state that would supersede the rights of any other communities then residing in Palestine.
    It is doubtful if the GA of the UN had the legal authority to recommend partition of territory, let alone confer title to territory held by peolple who did not agree to relinguish their land.
    Res. 181 did not authorise establishment of an exclusive Jewish state. Such an action would constitute a fundamental violation of the UN charter itself.

    What happened was immoral and lacks any legal foundation.

  • Americana

    I’ve always pushed for peace initiatives to be introduced as non-binding referendums to the Palestinians. If it were possible to get a truly informed view on what percentage of Palestinians want what, it would make the pursuit of peace initiatives something that was clear to all, from the Israelis through all tiers of Palestinian society and politics. Hamas and the PA represent a particular perspective on the issue and even there, there is some divergence between the two organization, but what they voice at their most extreme is not what should be the primary points of discussion. I would ignore all threats and all promises of continuing violence. Israel should certainly continue to plan for the worst but negotiate for the best, within reason, of course. Thus far, concentrating on their threats and demanding the Palestinians cease making those sorts of threats has done nothing to expedite the situation toward a final resolution.

  • Cristinascar

    I was looking for the protests and rock singers and UN obsessed with the 100 times longer border fence Saudi Arabia built to steal land from Yemen ? They use more American technology and funding and no boycotte, though they kill minoritites with impunity in both thoise countries. No artoicle in the New York Times about, that fence? Not one? No AP article? What about the anti-Shia “apartheid” in all Sunni countries in the Gulf where Shia make one third the salary of Sunnis on average. The onely 2 news sources on earth which even discuss Saudi dealings in Yemen is Putin’s RT and PressTV which rightly call it a proxy war against Iran, but obviously dont tell you the bad things Iran had done.

  • Philip Blom

    The answer to really throw a rock in the UN chicken house (of cocky Arabs) is for Israelis to vote en mass for Bait Juhudi of Naftali Bennett – since Netanyahu’s hidden agenda is that of the NWO via his role in the CFR.