Israel’s Pyrrhic Moral Victory

ijAs the Israeli-Hamas conflict rages, a familiar pattern asserts itself: Israel bends over backward to demonstrate her moral innocence to the world, and the world heaps condemnation on her anyway. Israel always feels compelled to restrain her military superiority because victory in that arena means losing the battle in the arena of public opinion despite extraordinary efforts. It’s worth questioning whether the moral victory Israel is striving for accomplishes anything except to perpetuate the hostilities and ensure more Israeli deaths at the hands of Arab terrorists.

Forced to defend herself, but under the microscope of worldwide scrutiny, Israel has gone to extreme lengths to avoid civilian deaths. Business Insider calculated that Israel has taken such unprecedented measures that she is “raising the standards of what can be expected in warfare.” The IDF issues warnings to civilians prior to neighborhood incursions. Israeli doctors treat wounded Gazans. Israel agrees to a ceasefire only to have Hamas break it. In one instance, Israel even spared the lives of fourteen Hamas operatives in order not to incur civilian casualties. And yet she is still decried for a “disproportionate response” against the craven Hamas, who hide behind women and children, store weapons in hospitals, and happily press their own citizens into martyrdom to wage a very effective propaganda war.

“Disproportionate response” is a completely idiotic complaint that has never before been raised in wartime except to punish Israel, itself surrounded by a massively disproportionate Arab population. No one ever won a war by countering an aggressor with carefully measured, tit-for-tat responses. Conflicts are won by striking back so disproportionately that the enemy’s military forces are devastated and, more importantly, its will to fight is crushed so thoroughly that the threat is extinguished.

Defense Minister and former chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon recently accused Netanyahu of not combating terrorism with a strong enough hand: “Why are we, a sovereign nation with a strong army, begging a terror organization to give us calm? We need to recover the deterrence in a way that they are the ones begging for calm. What are we teaching our enemies all over the world? That they can do anything to us and we’ll turn the other cheek.”

It is worth reminding ourselves what sort of enemy Israel is dealing with, and what kicked off this most recent warfare: the murder of three Jewish teenagers – one an American citizen – kidnapped by Hamas and left in a shallow grave last month, which left the world – or at least the civilized world – heartsick and angry. The boys had been shot shortly after they went missing, “killed in cold blood by human animals,” as Prime Minister Netanyahu said. So Israel and decent people everywhere mourned, because we love life; meanwhile our nihilistic enemy, who boasts that they love death more, celebrated.

Around the world, those who sided with those human animals had expressed their sick joy over the three kidnapped teens with a three-fingered salute which they taught to their brainwashed children, preparing the next generational wave of Jew hatred. Then, their viciousness not sated with having executed three innocents, they even attacked the IDF ambulance transporting the bodies home.

Feckless President Obama, who has never been a friend to Israel (and Israel’s enemies there and abroad are keenly aware of that), decried the kidnapping/murders as “a senseless act of terror.” But terrorism is never senseless; by definition, terrorism is not random and pointless but waged with a terrible, specific intent. Eyal Yifrach, 19, and Gilad Shaar and Naftali Frenkel, both 16, were kidnapped and murdered because they were Jews, the people whom Hamas has sworn to wipe from the face of the earth.

Abroad, meanwhile, Jews – particularly in France – have become the targets of raging anti-Israel “protesters” using the Gaza conflict as an excuse to firebomb synagogues, burn down Jewish-owned stores, and chant for the murder of Jews in ovens. “Anti-Semitic incidents are an almost daily occurrence,” the president of France’s National Bureau for Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism told The Blaze even before the Gaza operation began. British Jews have experienced a doubling of anti-Semitic incidents, from verbal abuse to attacks on buildings and people. From Boston to Berlin, Palestinian sympathizers have called for the hunting of Jews. In the understatement of the year, the president of the Council for Jewish Institutions in France said, “This is not a good time for Jews.”

As Jordan Chandler Hirsch wrote in Tablet, “Israel’s operation in Gaza is not causing deep-seated prejudices, it is revealing them.” In the eyes of the Jew-haters, Israel can do no right. And still Israel suffers from what Bret Stephens called, in the Wall Street Journal, “the Jewish state’s most obvious weakness”:

a certain kind of vanity that confuses stainlessness with virtue, favors moral self-regard over normal self-interest, and believes in politics as an exercise not in power but in self-examination. People, and nations, with such attitudes cannot be beaten militarily. But they can easily—too easily—be shamed.

In a joint call on both Israelis and the self-proclaimed Palestinians to end the violence, Israel’s President Shimon Peres and President-elect Reuven Rivlin expressed their desire to live in peace with their Arab neighbors and their faith in the ability to live together. “The bloodshed will only stop when we all realize that we have not been sentenced to live together, but destined to live together.”

That is a very lofty sentiment, but the reality is that there can be no coexistence with a ruthless, relentless enemy whose very raison d’etre is your total and complete extermination. There will be no peace until either that murderous hatred or the bearers of it themselves are stamped out. This can only be accomplished by making the enemy pay terribly; that is how wars are won. Victory and lasting peace cannot be achieved through rules of engagement that tie both hands behind one’s back in order to curry the world’s “favor” – a favor Israel will never win, no matter how extraordinarily well she behaves.

  • Hank Rearden

    Israel shares with the the Republican Party being in a fight for its life, but being unwilling to take care to make its case in the public forum.

    Making its case will not be a silver bullet. It will not bring around inveterate Jew-haters. But the MSM operates on fashion. Most news people are stupid, ignorant and lazy and desperately want to be and to be seen as supporting the fashionable wisdom. It is fashionable to be anti-Israel. A well-constructed argument will reduce the fashionable nature of anti-Israelism, anti-Jewism.

    But for whatever reason, Israel will not put in the sweat equity to make its case.

    • Ginger Li

      Don’t you just get sick of the ‘peace process’?

      • Johnny Paleswine

        This process was forced on Israel by both corrupt American parties on orders by their Muslim and RoRo Inc. paymasters.

        Israel should stop voting for Dems. This is a morally corrupt party from which came Barak Hussein Obama, with no history of doing anything, aside from licking envelopes and baking pies for his community organizers at the local mosque.

        All of his major policies are bad to the USA.

        Maybe there is a new GOP but James Baker III and George Bush Sr. and Cheney are responsible for pushing Israel to deal with the PLO. I liked Romney. Hope he runs again. Cruze, Gowdy, Palin, I like them all.

        22 years of a peace process and 41 years since Israel allowed the Arabs to begin the war in Oct 1973 has been imbecilic.

        Israel: continue to kill Arab Muslims and blow up their buildings
        Diaspora Jews: Shun all left of center parties; home to tacit Jew hate in a much bigger way than right wing parties

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        I prefer the ETERNAL NAKBA process.

      • CowboyUp

        The ‘peace process’ is a farce. The objective of the process is to sustain the process, not to resolve of the conflict. The people peddling it can’t even get the palis to concede Israel’s right to exist.

        • Evermyrtle

          Peace has to be supported by getting rid of all hatred, spite and malice. Peace cannot live is such an environment, forget about peace falling into the lap of the citizens of the world it has to be worked for, the greatest tool for getting peace is “Love the LORD GOD, with all your heart, soul and mind, and Love thy neighbor as thyself,

          Psalms 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it

          Jeremiah 8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying Peace, Peace; when there is no peace.

          Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a SON is given: and the government shall be upon HIS shoulder: and HIS NAME shall be called WONDERFUL, COUNSELLER, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE.

          Isaiah 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD unt the wicked

          Romans 2:10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the
          Gentile.

      • Hank Rearden

        It is one lllllooooooonnnnggggg process!

        But it is more than a joke. It is destructive. Because the world pretends there is a peace process, it provides the predicate for subsidizing the Palis.

        Suppose it was a “war process,” which we all know it is. Then it would be an embarrassment, or worse, to be sending money to the “enemy.” If the Palis, and even more the Pali leadership, weren’t getting money from the rest of the world, they would have to get on with life and adjust to Israel’s existence.

        • fiddler

          The “peace” process is just another ruse to shell out billions of American taxpayer dollars. The left in reality knows that there will be no peace, but as with most “aid” sent such as this to the Middle East, they must have the issue to preach about.

          Jesus, in order to make peace on our behalf offered up himself, making “peace through his cross” Read Ephesians 2 the whole chapter.

  • David

    Moral victories and public relations victories are fine but personally I prefer military victories.

    • Webb

      Isn’t that the truth. What’s needed is an IDF general with the instincts of Patton. Gaza would’ve been quelled a week ago, and the tunnels would be full of dead Hamas leaders. Bunker Busters to open up the tunnels, followed by thermobaric bombs to suck the air out of them and out of the lungs of the terrorists. Problem solved. Civilians? — utterly inconsequential. Check the stats on Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

      • retired22

        Patton?
        How about Putin in Chechnya?
        No one likes the guy but no one messes with him either!
        The Jews need to make up their minds,do they want to be loved or do they want to be respected?
        You can get respect without love,you can’t get love without respect…….only contempt & pity!

        • Evermyrtle

          Actually, the Jews, as well as their enemies, needs only to think about what GOD thinks and try to live according to that, that GOD will bless them not curse them, the same as the rest of the world. We all need to forget about pleasing mankind, as man can do little for us, our blessings come from GOD, most of them undeserved blessings. We must stand on what we believe ourselves and not bow to the principles of others, as in, what man may think about what we do.

          There is a saying, “a tinkers dam” that is what I use, when thinking about living according to others ideas. I strive to do according to what GOD wishes me to do, and of course I make many mistakes at the very best that I can do.

          Our country is almost at the point of “not return” when it comes to living for Satan, and ignoring what the creator of all things, teach us how to live.

          Matthew 22:37-40
          37. JESUS, said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD THY GOD with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
          38. This is the first and great commandment.
          39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
          40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Living by these few verses of scripture we can save the world from being destroyed, instead it would a wonderful, enjoyful place, for GOD’S people.

        • CaoMoo

          Machiavelli it is best to be both loved and feared but where only one is possible it is best to be feared rather than loved. Works on most bullies.

        • Michael Garfinkel

          Very true, but Chechnya is not in the heart of the Middle East.

        • Americana

          The Chechens mess w/Pres. Putin all the time. The fact not all the instances are of the epic and horrific proportions of the Beslan school massacre doesn’t mean the Chechens are scared of Putin.

          • Drakken

            Really?????? If you wonder why you don’t hear of what Putin does in Chechnya? It is because everyone one of those bloody muslims is dead. The muslims of Dagestan and Chechnya fear Putin because Putin actually does kill them en masse and it works.

      • tickletik

        That is not the problem. The problem is that the elite of the country have lost their soul. The rulers were always leftist, and the worldwide left supported Israel for that. But as the country turned to the right and to religion, the leftists, like the spoiled little children they are, began to throw a tantrum and turned against the people and the country like a spoiled brat throwing an unwanted toy against the wall

        So this lack of support in the moral arena was always a weakness of the leadership. For a brief time we had one or two leaders who were honest men. Shamir and Begin. But the upper classes took a great many steps to put a stop to that. And now we are ruled by men of cardboard. Ambitious criminals, accountants, and smooth tongued politicians.

        But that is all right. We see that God is the one really running this war. When the Israeli government refused to knock out the electricity in Gaza, God had pity on the people and cause Hamas to accidentally blow up their own power systems. There is more like this.

    • Americana

      There will never be a military victory that completely solves this situation. Until there is a peace agreement and a land grant that finalizes the creation of the Palestinian state, there is no reason for the vast majority of the Palestinians to give up their liberation fight. If a Palestinian nation were created, then there might be a chance for those Palestinians desirous of peace to override those willing to wage war. In every possible political scenario, this will always be a war of attrition so why not attempt to make the only effort that might assuage Palestinian fury over the loss of their lands and create a Palestinian state and see what that leads to?

      • Judahlevi

        It was a military victory that vanquished the Nazis and made Germany an ally. It was a military victory that humbled the Japanese Empire to become an ally. There is a time for everything under the sun, including war.

        A military victory against Hamas is certainly possible, but the cost in civilian lives would be high. But the cost in civilian lives in Germany and Japan were also high. If Gaza was fought like WW2 they would bombard the areas of the city they were attacking with artillery or by air before even putting one Israeli soldier’s life at risk.

        Only Israel’s restraint is preventing this from being a military victory. This is the choice of Israel, not Hamas.

        • Americana

          Oh, don’t misunderstand me. Israel most certainly could win that kind of physical military victory, after all, she’s got all the military bells and whistles that Hamas does not like tanks and various munitions as well as more troops. But she wouldn’t win the moral war at that point. Before she’s able to win that kind of war by taking that approach, Israel has got to arrive at a peace settlement, have the vast number of Palestinians violate that peace accord and then Irael could likely go ahead w/that scale of genocide and ethnic cleansing and get away w/it. If Israel were to simply go in, clean out every male over the age of 12 and then banish all the women and the elderly to whatever country will take them, her Pyrrhic victory will be seen for exactly what it is. Israel’s restraint is because she knows what she’s doing and exactly what the Palestinians are doing.

          • 1Indioviejo1

            Moral? Who is moral enough to judge Israel.

          • fiddler

            Very easy to armchair quarterback. Win the moral war? Whose morals? Have you looked at what a small sliver of land Israel occupies? Don’t you think Hamas et. AL could lobby to share land with their Arab brothers who occupy 99% of the Middle East real estate? Or is murdering Jews while offering up their own women and children as cannon fodder in order to “curry favor” with Saudi Arabia and others for money for arms their real intent? A squabble over land when really they want all the land and and end to Israel.
            The article in effect asks:
            – Who started the war?
            – Who provoked Israel?
            – Who is warning innocents to evacuate and who isn’t?
            – Who is kidnapping and murdering?
            – Who is tunneling by stealth at the cost of millions?
            – Who was willing to abide by the peace agreement brokered by Egypt, and who wasn’t?
            – Who is being viewed as the villain and who is getting a pass?
            – Whose actions are “proportionate” and whose are “disproportionate”?
            Even Goehring, Goebbels, and Adolph himself had cyanid capsules at the ready rather the be held accountable.

          • Americana

            Why should the Palestinians “lobby to share land w/their Arab brothers who occupy 99% of the Middle East?” You’re saying the Palestinians should suffer the dispossession just because Israel wouldn’t occupy very much land if Israel didn’t get the whole of Palestine? The Jews KNEW EXACTLY HOW MUCH LAND they were being given in the original partition agreement and they knew they were expected to come to a peace agreement w/the Palestinians. I don’t remember the Israelis calling off the partition agreement saying, “Hey, back to the drawing board, there’s not enough land here! We want it all or else we’re not settling this!” The Palestinians, who originally owned the land when the Israelis decided to muscle in on it, weren’t occupying very much land either and, now, they’re occupying far, far less. Even worse, the Israelis don’t want to give them any of that remaining land the Palestinians currently still occupy. In fact, the Palestinians are being cajoled and pressured and secretly bought off by proxy purchasers into selling their homes and land to Jewish buyers. Talk about quasi STEALTH MOVES! There’s an easy answer to your spurious question, so easy in fact I shouldn’t have to supply the answer. The Jews have not only their current nationalities as their homes, they’ve got Israel as their mother ship should they chose to move there.

            I have no issue w/Israel wishing to have a homeland. But the tactics being used to revise the agreement that gave them that Jewish homeland in the first place are highly questionable. First, the claim is the Jews OWN the land based on the basis of Biblical prophesies. (So why even bother talking peace and borders w/the Palestinians? I mean, God has already decided the matter. And, look, my God is a whole lot better than their God.) Second, the claim is the Jews own the land on a PROVENANCE basis from thousands of years ago. (So why even bother w/any legitimate peace effort, after all it’s ours anyway?!) Third, the Jews OWN the land because the Romans employed ‘Arab’ mercenaries and since it’s the mercenaries’ descendants who stand between the Jews and their new/old country the Palestinians should be dispossessed by default. (Yup. Sock it to ‘em. They ripped us off, we’re gonna rip them off. We own the land. Always have. Always will.) Fourth, the Jews OWN all the land because Israel’s borders aren’t defensible otherwise. (Oops, why’d we agree to the partitioning in the first place if we knew we were getting screwed on defense?)

            I mean, hey, what’s not to disagree with about any of those points? Israel deserves her existence but she doesn’t deserve to inflict quite what she’s inflicting on the region or on the world courtesy of jihadis and their vengeance mode. The longer this goes on and the longer these questionable methods are being used by Israelis to equate land theft w/moral rights to the land, the Israelis are shooting themselves in the foot.

          • truebearing

            It is good advice to anyone who reads your endless repetition to stop well before they get to “see more.” You say the same things, over and over, oblivious to countless arguments or facts that refute your position.

            The bottom line is that there is no point in talking about a “peaceful” solution when one side has endlessly reiterated it’s hostile genocidal intentions. Hamas has even written these genocidal goals into it’s mission statement. How stupid does a person have to be to insist that peace is possible with such an intransigent cult?

          • Americana

            Hamas is only one segment of the Palestinian population, that’s how and why.

          • Jack Diamond

            The PLO Charter also calls for jihad and the annihilation of Israel. It declares Israel’s establishment illegal, null and void, that Palestine (including Israel, of course) is an indivisible territorial unit, an Arab homeland, belonging to Palestinian Arabs, that its “liberation” is the duty of the Arab Nation (all Arabs) and in the amended 1968 Charter “armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.”

            It announces that nothing short of TOTAL liberation is acceptable and this can ONLY be done militarily. It calls for the Jewish state to be destroyed because “Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement and the geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically (i.e. a conspiracy) in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nations…liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence.” A 2009 Sixth General Conference by Fatah declared the Charter “remains at it was, without any changes.” This is pure jihad (as written in the language of the 1960s) with no co-existing-in- peace “two-state solution” anywhere in sight. Now you have two segments of the Palestinian population spoken for.

          • Drakken

            The bloody majority of those effing inbred muslims don’t want peace you bloody dumbazz, they want the Jews dead, what part of that don’t you quite get? You repeat the same peace bullsh*t in the firm belief that it makes it so, it doesn’t and it won’t.

          • logdon

            Maybe he doesn’t know the meaning of the word, nakba.

          • Drakken

            It’s a she of the leftist kind and to really top it off, she is a Brit to boot. God help us all with these peace types running things.

          • logdon

            Drakken, as you know I’m also a Brit and suspect a bit longer in the truth than this mouthy idiot.

            Unfortunately despite, I suspect her feminist leaning credentials, she is one of the easily lead, swallowing the Beeboid/Sky narrative as if born to it.

            They actually know nothing but get amongst the less metropolitan populace it’s a completely different tale.

            They actually possess that old quality of common sense and the attitude towards islam is not quite as portrayed in our media.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            There’s nothing pro-”peace” of scum like americana.

            She is pro-islamofascism – even if it destroys the UK.

          • truebearing

            So it is your contention that Hamas is winning the “moral war” by tunneling under kindergartens to commit mass murder on 5 year old children?

            The only reasons that Hamas hasn’t been condemned to death for war crimes is that the leftists in the media, and the leftists and Muslims in the UN are pretending they aren’t vile scum, but victims instead. The United States should have made it clear to the world, long ago, that it would crush anyone who interfered with Israel while it annhilated the people causing the problems.

          • phil

            There may be striking parallels between attacking by means of tunnels and Sultan
            Mehmed’s method of transporting a whole fleet by land over a hill;
            the ships were glided over supports which were oiled and then were
            moored, bypassing the city’s protections at the entrance of the Golden
            Horn. The emperor tried having them burned and support was sent from
            Rome, but it was late! Were Gazans acting alone? Are the
            tunnels a continuation of the mavi marmara attack?

          • Americana

            Of course, Hamas bears a moral stain for attacking all Israeli civilians especially the most helpless. That doesn’t negate the fact the Israelis are annexing and infiltrating and stealing the remaining Palestinian land, confident in the knowledge that they’ll get away w/their stealth annexation. Israelis are buying Palestinian property using proxy buyers knowing full well that the Israeli government really isn’t going to stop them other than the occasional token removal. That kind of colonizing behavior is going to continue to raise the viciousness of the Palestinian response. Is the Palestinian response “proportionate?” NO, however the Israeli response to that Palestinian response is also not “proportionate,” since Israel is a fully militarized state. Israel can bomb w/every sort of munitions from flechette anti-personnel bombs to bunker-busters via artillery and aircraft and then follow up w/an armored invasion force.

            Back up Israel to that extent? NO WAY. Sure, the U.S. could have held the line militarily for a long period of time. That would have been at great cost in terms of treasure and lives if we’d engaged in that sort of Western militarist imperialism and it would ultimately have led to an even more rapid escalation of the jihadi situation we are now seeing. If the United States did anything dramatic in the region, it should have insisted on the creation of the Palestinian state instead of turning a blind eye to the maintenance of the status quo desired by the Israelis. That would have bolstered those Middle Eastern governments that are the most stable and have somewhat mollified the view of the Arab world that we trample everyone’s rights.

          • Drakken

            There is no morality in war stupid, there is no peace without victory, Israel will be at this again in less than a year.

          • Americana

            There’s a certain insanity in doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting a different result. The Israelis have backed themselves into a strategic corner and they’re not willing to recognize that all of their intransigence has led to this huge increase in the profile of worldwide jihad. The Israelis may win every battle but lose the war because they are trying to consolidate something they cannot consolidate to the extent they wish. Now that’s stupid.

          • Drakken

            The Israeli’s have acted stupidly and half azzed this operation from day one, either go big or go home and just let the arabs beat on you until the next round of idiocy run by lawyers and the human rights brigade. Or give these goddamn savages what they so richly deserve, killem all and lety allah sortem out Carthage style. Oh before you whine about how the world doesn’t work that way anymore? Look around around you, it exactly works that way, you just live in a state of utter denial.
            Your leftist lunacy is really showing now with your totally screeching for peace at any price. What is it with you goofy moronic leftist Brits? The way you folks act and behave, the Germans should have won for at least they wouldn’t be apologizing for their success and sacrificing themselves on the alter of self flaggregation in a frenzy of self loathing and self hating communist musings of all things being equal when it is as clear as day they are anything but.

          • Americana

            You’re a goofy, maniac, right-wing militarist if you claim these two wars (Palestinian liberation fight and WW II) as having the same fundamental underlying grounds for being waged. Since you don’t have a clue, that’s ALSO how things fail because militarism doesn’t work if the conditions aren’t right for a military solution. Wherever you received your military education, they failed to teach you HOW and WHY military supremacy doesn’t guarantee the peace. Militarism especially isn’t going to work in this particular situation where the only ultimately “right way” to solve the problem is to acknowledge Palestinian rights to a state and find a geographic way to accommodate both states in the area.

            It’s pretty funny you’d unintentionally hybridize ‘flagellation’ into “flaggregation” (‘flagellation’ and ‘aggregation’) indicating you fundamentally understand the process Israel is undertaking in the region. Israel is flagellating the Palestinians in hopes Israel will be able to finish aggregating all the Palestinian land. But that’s how minds work — they demonstrate understanding of situations when those mind would prefer not to understand them.

          • truebearing

            “There’s a certain insanity in doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting a different result. ”

            And yet you repeat the same wrong thinking ad nauseam, expecting to sway those of clearer vision to your dogmatic viewpoint. Thanks for characterizing your ten thousand comments as insane.

          • Americana

            You’ve got a clear vision? Pardon me if I disagree. if Israel had clear vision, she wouldn’t be proclaiming there should be an “independent Kurdish state” while claiming “Palestinians are Fakestinians.” There’s a factual disconnect evident in Israel’s politically expedient choices and you parrot them each and every time. Your ten thousand comments will never achieve factual credibility because you’re unwilling to veer from the approved narrative. Trouble is, sycophancy without historical accuracy is merely propaganda —simplistic at best, dangerous at worst.

        • 1Indioviejo1

          All I see is Arab terrorist dressed in civilian clothes. These make the so called ‘civilian casualties’.

          • Judahlevi

            Hamas’ numbers are inflated, their terrorist dead are counted as innocent bystanders, and children and women are counted multiple times. All they want to do is win the propaganda war with their useful idiots.

            Civilian casualties are always a tragedy, but Hamas is to blame 100% for every one of them. They started this, they are to blame for the consequences of their actions.

        • Americana

          The Nazis weren’t having their homeland taken away from them after their defeat. That’s the big difference between the two situations. In fact, very few, absurdly few, Nazis paid any sort of significant price for having committed the atrocities of WW II. That’s the reason why the Nazis simply sucked up their defeat and went about their lives because they’d nearly lost it all but Germany wasn’t taken away from them and broken up into its constituent regions. The Germans simply resumed their lives in a devastated country and they received a lot of aid to get back on their feet. Not a bad outcome for the Germans, all things considered. Same things go for the Japanese.

          • Judahlevi

            “Not a bad outcome for the Germans”

            You must be kidding.

          • Americana

            Considering what the Allies could have done to the Germans after their victory? No, I’m not kidding, the Germans made out relatively well. Sure, they were bombed into oblivion but they were given an awful lot of assistance to get back on their feet. The differences between the post-war periods of WW I where Germans starved to death vs the period after WW II where German engineering brought about a fairly rapid recovery made for night and day differences between the two World War recovery periods.

          • Drakken

            You don’t know WTF you are talking about where post war Germany is concerned and how many lives were lost in the post war period, in other words , your full of revisionist communist bullsh*t!

          • truebearing

            Half of Germany resumed their lives under communism. They lost a massive number of men. The country was pulverized and they are still living down the stigma of the evil perpetrated by fellow Germans. That isn’t a bad outcome?

            Germany deserved what it got, as brutal as it was. Hamas deserves the same, and so does any Muslim country that promotes genocide.

          • Drakken

            Really? The Prussians and Germans didn’t lose any land you say? Really??? Now that would be news to my Prussian GrandFather, Father and myself who lost his lands and estates in East Prussia and the millions of German who lost their lands in Silesia and lands and property in Slovakia and Czech Republic. Your openly siding with the muslims in disputed lands of the Levant is misguided and frankly stupid. To a muslim, once land is muslim it is always muslim.

      • Michael Garfinkel

        If you volunteered to be the canary in that coal mine I would consider it.

        • Americana

          How tweet of you.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Don’t kill the canary. Let it live. Have a heart you heartless bit ch.

      • David

        The only viable long-term option is the humanitarian relocation of the Arabs of Gaza.

        • Americana

          How very convenient that’s your suggestion.

          • David

            If you’ve got a better idea I’m open to it.

          • Roger Royce

            While they let their Hamas warriors build 10,000 rockets, partly from Israel-supplied sewage pipes, Gaza is on its way to becoming an ecological and unlivable dead zone. This same thing is happening in many of the population-exploding 3rd world countries. Declaring war on Israel instead of asking it for help, will be one the causes of its demise and eventual evacuation.

            Read about the sewage fouling their beaches and streets.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Is Eternal Nakba convenient for you?

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            Why not an ever expanding Nakba of freedom and liberty at the expense of islamic-fascism?

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Green Light it.

        • Drakken

          Time to give them Carthage for you never leave your enemy to fight another day.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Do to the arabs of gaza what they proclaim they want to do to Israel.

          The cold sea is waiting for hamass.

      • Jeff Ludwig

        The Jews left Gaza. How did the Palestinian Arabs respond to this largesse?

      • logdon

        Dream on.

  • mollysdad

    ” . . . . .the reality is that there can be no coexistence with a ruthless, relentless enemy whose very raison d’etre is your total and complete extermination. There will be no peace until either that murderous hatred or the bearers of it themselves are stamped out. This can only be accomplished by making the enemy pay terribly; that is how wars are won”

    Here you have your answer. Israel wins no points in the international community by seeking to avoid civilian casualties. Israel might as well proceed to the complete overthrow of Gaza, to drive out its Muslim population and to annex the empty territory.

    This is a religious war, and the Muslims in Gaza are enemies of God.

  • truebearing

    Excellent article with a clear-eyed conclusion.

    Disproportionate response? What kind of idiocy is that? Is ISIS proportionate with their ethnic cleansing of Christians, beheadings, and plans for Female Genital Mutilation? Where is the disproportionately dishonest and evil UN on that topic?

    “Disproportionate response” is political correctness imposed on combatants at war. As in all areas political correctness is imposed, there is a built in bias as to who is wrong — always wrong — and who is right. The wrong ones are always the more powerful, unless the Left has the power.
    “Disproportionate response” is yet another way political correctness numbs the human survival instinct, which makes any population infinitely more vulnerable to manipulation from a ruling class of pseudo-moralists who are bent on controlling everyone. It prevents victory and lets the Left define the morality of conflict. The warped idiots on the Left want even war to be egalitarian, but not when they have an interest in the outcome. The Left doesn’t want peace. They want to gain power through “peace.”

    Resist, Israel. Resist for all you are worth. The only reward for submitting to your enemies is death. Let that be your gift to them.

    • Johnny Paleswine

      Eliminate Gaza from Human memory. Most people cannot tell you what they had for breakfast yesterday. Wipe it out!!

      Op Protective Parking Lot Muslims seek to kill. Jew hate will always be here. One reason is the British controlled Goldman Sachs. THE only thing is to destroy everything, deport ALL of the Arabs and rebuild the place.

      Diaspora Jews must become more like our Italian American friends. Perhaps they are not well liked but nobody wants to mess with them. Jews need not be liked. RESPECT is the key.

      Voting for the Dems is done. If Jews keep voting for Dems they are fools and should be told that they are fools.

      • Evermyrtle

        Israel, GOD, Man’s attitude toward Israel

        Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: an in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

        Psalms 83:2-4.
        2.For , lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up thy head.
        3. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people and consulted thy hidden ones.
        4. They have said, Come, let us cut them off from being a nation: that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

        Zechariah 2:8

        For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath HE sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of my eye.

        Read Zechariah 12:1-14

  • http://libertyandculture.blogspot.com/ Jason P

    The left in Europe and America hold Israel back and enable Hamas. Hamas wouldn’t use human shields if the left didn’t give it sympathy. What other purpose would putting civilians in harms way serve? Why lob missiles against an “iron dome” if it only brings missiles against your own people? Clearly that is the desired result. If no one shed a tear for the self-inflicted “suicide by cop” fatalities in Gaza, Hamas would not bother.

    Without the enablers in the West, this would not be happening. Sadly, the West funds Hamas directly and indirectly through the U.N. We created this problem. Holding Israel back merely legitimizes terror. Don’t be surprised if we’re next.

  • Texas Patriot

    There is a risk that by inflicting so many casualties on innocent civilians that Israel is sacrificing the moral high ground. Although every nation has a right of self-defense, the reality is that unnecessary human suffering must always be avoided at all costs. Instead of pounding at areas heavily populated with innocent civilians in order to destroy the largely harmless arsenal of rockets being used by Hamas, Israel should adopt the more aggressive and expedient approach of expelling Hamas from a small strip of land around its borders every time Israel is attacked from within Gaza. In this way, human suffering would be minimized, and the attacks would eventually cease. Otherwise, the platform from which Gaza is launching its attacks would eventually cease to exist, and the enemies of Israel would have to find another place to launch their aggression.

    • StanleyT

      “Instead of pounding at areas heavily populated with innocent civilians in order to destroy the largely harmless arsenal of rockets being used by Hamas”

      Are you serious? Israel has to pound the areas “heavily populated with … civilians” (I will not include the word innocent because we don’t know that) because THAT’S WHERE THE WEAPONS ARE!

      And you claim the arsenal of rockets is harmless? For heaven’s sake, those rockets are deadly. The only thing that renders them relatively harmless is Israel’s own defence systems. While Iron Dome has been incredible, there is no guarantee that it will always succeed. And it’s useless to the communities close to Gaza. Just today, a house in Ashkelon was destroyed. Imagine how the homeowners feel – and how much worse it could have been if they were in their own

      I would strongly urge you to get a grip on reality in do some rethinking. No matter what Israel does, she will be vilified. Accepting your suicidal solution is exactly what this article argues against.

      • Texas Patriot

        I know the meaning of the phrase “Pyrrhic Victory”, and that is precisely what killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians (and the resulting loss of the respect of the world) in order to destroy a few thousand largely ineffective and harmless rocket launchers would be. There is a better way to achieve a military and moral victory in this situation, and I have outlined it above. You are free to analyze it and criticize it if you wish.

        • StanleyT

          Somehow, I don’t think the world that hates Israel is going to be too pleased at the thought of Israel taking one “small strip” of Gaza after another. I can just hear the cries of “land theft”, “expansionism” and “ethnic cleansing”.

          The only solution is the one the IDF is now engaged in. Neutralize Hamas by destroying its weapons and tunnels and eliminating its leaders.

          • Texas Patriot

            Israel is in a difficult position trying to defend itself against an adversary which is willing to sacrifice innocent civilians to make a point. However, gradually seizing and clearing small strips of land from which attacks are being launched would probably be regarded as more humanitarian than killing innocent civilians, and that’s what makes it a better alternative in this situation.

          • fiddler

            It is indeed a no-win situation in the court of public opinion when you have slime balls who hide behind women and children and they make a very compelling case using images galore on the internet to drive home their point, for “moral effect” on shaping opinion. It is so easy to overlook the whole purpose for stopping wanton aggressors who kidnap and murder Israeli teens, when you can produce images of suffering children; while in truth they are placing them as cannon fodder even after Israel has warned them to leave.

            The innocent blood is on Hamas’ head! It is a crying shame, but it is as Scripture says:
            “They cannot rest until they do evil”

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            At this point who cares what world opinion is anymore? It’s nothing more than manufactured islamic lies.

        • Drakken

          You call those muslims innocent civilians, I call them what they are, the enemy, and once you destroy them, the war is over and you will have peace. Give them what they bloody well deserve, Carthage.

          • Texas Patriot

            I’m a Christian and a follower of Sun Tzu. Therefore, I believe in loving and praying for enemies, if at all possible winning without fighting, but if war is necessary as a last resort, winning very quickly. As Sun Tzu said, there are no winners in long wars.

          • Drakken

            Read a little more Von Clausewitz and Machiavelli, for they are a lot more in tune to these sub human savages that we are up against.

          • Texas Patriot

            Von Clausewitz was an idiot, and Machiavelli was much worse than any conceivable enemy. If you want to win the good old fashioned way, stick with Jesus and Sun Tzu.

          • Drakken

            I’ll stick to what works, heavy firepower and a steady hand. You forget that war is natural to the human condition and has been since the dawn of time and will be with us until time ends. In the end it comes right down to the point of them or us.

          • Texas Patriot

            Having massive firepower and a steady hand is one thing. Knowing when and how to use it to best advantage is another.

          • Drakken

            Like I said, read and understand the before mentioned folks and you just might learn something, as for God, he helps those who helps themselves.

          • Texas Patriot

            Following Clausewitz and Machiavelli has never really worked for anyone. Following Jesus Christ and Sun Tzu never fails. God helps those who keep his commands, and no one else.

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            Tactical and strategic advantages can be transitory. They can also be eliminated by enemy action.

          • Texas Patriot

            That’s why it’s important to stay one step ahead.

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            Isn’t the territory once known as Carthage now behind the islamic curtain?

    • steve b

      HAMAS DOES NOT SHOOT THEIR MISSILES FROM A SMALL STRIP ON THE BORDERS OF GAZA. WHERE DID YOU STUDY MILITARY TACTICS, YOU DOPE.
      THE ISRAELIS SHOULD DO WHAT WE DID DURING WORLD WAR II – DROP A FEW NUKES ON THE AREA WHERE THE ROCKETS ARE COMING FROM, INCLUDING IRAN AND THE OTHER STATES WHO ARE SUPPLYING THESE ROCKETS. THEN THEY CAN FIREBOMB THE REST OF THE AREA, AS WE DID TO NUMEROUS JAPANESE AND GERMAN CITIES.
      IF YOU THINK THIS IS EXTREME, SHOULD WE HAVE DROPPED THOSE NUKES ON JAPAN? IF NOT, CONSIDER WHETHER YOU WOULD HAVE EVEN BEEN BORN IF YOUR FATHER OR GRANDFATHER HAD TO INVADE THE JAPANESE ISLANDS INSTEAD OF US USING THE ATOM BOMB. ESTIMATED UNITED STATES CASUALTIES IN AN INVASION WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE MILLION DEAD AND WOUNDED.
      SCREW THE MORAL HIGH GROUND – IF SOMEONE BREAKS INTO MY HOME AND ATTACKS ME WITH A KNIFE, HE’S GETTING A .45 SLUG OR TWO BACK, NOT MY KNIFE. IF HE’S THROWING MOLOTOV COCKTAILS I SHOOT THE BOTTLE WHILE IT’S IN HIS HAND AND WATCH HIM BURN.
      THIS IS WHAT THE ISRAELIS NEED TO DO. REMEMBER WHAT OBAMA SAID – IF THEY (THE REPUBLICANS) BRING A KNIFE, WE BRING A GUN. THIS FORM OF SELF DEFENSE (NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST REPUBLICANS, THOUGH) IS THE ONLY THING OBAMA HAS EVER SAID THAT I AGREE WITH.

      • Americana

        Your military solution is absolutely insane. Bringing nuclear war to the Middle East across a broad swath of nations because of their support for the Palestinians would be a national disgrace. There are multiple reasons the U.S. has never used nuclear weapons in any conflict since their WW II use against Japan. This sort of use of American nuclear weapons would confirm the legitimacy of the Iranian pursuit of nukes for the Arab bloc.

        • steve b

          YEAH, BUT IRAN WOULD BE THEIR FIRST TARGET.

        • SCREW SOCIALISM

          Why does the UK have nukes?

          The UK should turn them over to Canada, Australia or the US for safe keeping and to keep them out of the hands of the Islamists who are taking over the UK.

          • Americana

            That is such a farcical statement, I’m not really going to answer it.

          • SCREW SOCIALISM

            Jihad got you tongue?

  • steve b

    WHO CARES ABOUT PUBLIC OPINION WHEN YOU ARE BEING HIT BY ROCKETS EVERY DAY? ISRAEL SHOULD KILL EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD LIVING IN GAZA AND THEN DESTROY EVERY BUILDING, INCLUDING SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS, MOSQUES, ETC.
    THEN THEY SHOULD ANNOUNCE THAT THIS WAS JUST A WARNING AND THE NEXT ONE TO ATTACK THEM WILL GET WORSE.
    THE USUAL SUSPECTS WILL BLAME THEM NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

    • StanleyT

      Okay, first of all, all caps is extreme – and so is your sentiment. There is no need for that kind of bloodthirsty nonsense. Israel just has to destroy all Hamas weapons and installations and kill enough Hamas leaders to persuade them that attacking ever again would be a mistake. The ordinary people of Gaza are not the worst of the enemy. We can live with them. WE cannot live with the people they chose to be their leaders, and we need to make sure they know that.

      • Michael Garfinkel

        You’re right of course, that the preceding comment, and others like it, are a bit “over-the-top.”

        However, they do point to an irrefutable fact of war – which is that unless you engage in warfare to win, you will be defeated.

        Does anyone not understand what an Israeli defeat would look like?

        Still, talk of bombing Gaza into rubble is ridiculous in this day and age. But, there are remedies at hand – hard-headed yet conventional military remedies that would be successful, and quite sufficient to end the conflict on favorable terms.

        These remedies have been employed; they need to be expanded and continued.

        Also very important to note is that the Israelis must stop committing a truly unforgivable war crime for which they have been guilty – the crime of needlessly sacrificing the lives of their brave soldiers..

        Useless and bloody sacrifice is precisely what we have seen when self-defeating tactics, designed solely to ameliorate hostile public opinion, are employed in battle.

        If command and control is in the basement of a hospital surrounded by civilians, yes, even children – it must be destroyed in preliminary bombardment.

        As horrible as this, it is preferable to burying the bodies of soldiers who die approaching the target through prepared “killing zones” – as we saw happen in Jenin, and we are seeing now in Gaza.

        This is a real war crime, and it must stop.

        Finally, it must be understood that it is beyond the capacity of the Israelis to win the “hearts and minds” of a deliberately ignorant and malicious media.

        It is not,however, beyond the Israeli capacity to win the battle and create, finally, a demilitarized Gaza.

        • StanleyT

          Thanks for a great post, Michael. I gave you a thumbs up, but it deserves more than one.

        • Texas Patriot

          I agree that there is no need for the life of even one Israeli soldier to be lost in this situation, and needlessly sacrificing the lives of Israeli soldiers for the sake of public opinion is a war crime against the Israeli people.

        • Judahlevi

          Good post, Michael, and I agree with most of it.

          Nonetheless, bombing a hospital full of civilians to destroy a command and control center would not be wise. In an outright war for survival, this may be justifiable, but this war is not a war of survival for Israel. Hamas is not an existential threat at this time for the state of Israel.

          The realpolitik of Israel’s position is that it must pay at least some attention to world opinion. It is a tiny state that is not completely self sufficient. It also has to contend with a critical and naive American president and hope for a better one in two years.

          Israel will win this war and, hopefully, demilitarize Gaza.

          • Michael Garfinkel

            I agree that bombing hospitals is to be avoided, but not at all costs.

            Each situation has to be evaluated on its own merits, but I sometimes think the Israelis have erred on the side of excessive caution.

          • Judahlevi

            You may be right.

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            Exactly, if the policy were to never bomb hospitals guess where Hamas would be locating its rocket launching pads, command centers, ammunition dumps and OP’s to?

          • fiddler

            “It also has to contend with a critical and naive American president…”

            With all due respect, there is no naiveté with this president and his criticism is politically veiled. I’m convinced that most if not all his policies and decisions are purposeful even if they appear incoherent (the most recent dropping off illegals in states where he hasn’t even bothered to alert the governor). The man, just like his idol Saul Alinsky is actually quite brilliant, or should I say crafty.

          • Judahlevi

            You give him more credit (as to intelligence) than I do.

            I don’t believe Obama is particularly bright – and I know that he is not wise.

        • Americana

          You also have to engage in the peace process to win the peace or you will defeat the reasons for having a peace process.

          • Drakken

            Know muslims, no peace
            No muslims, know peace.

          • Johnnie the Jew

            Just back from the Basque region in south east France and San Sebastian Drakken. Now that’s a place I want to invest in. No freakin weirdie beardies or bagheads there ! They wouldn’t stand for it and rightfully so. I think I better take Americana in hand and sneak her through the back streets of Marseille and Toulouse and the main streets of east London, Luton, Leicester, Birmingham and countless other islamic, no go areas in Europe for a bit of cold steel. Make her feel the energy and heat of toxic, anti-like and cultural heat. Otherwise its Johnnies boot camp without pain killers and lubricants.Watch this space

          • Americana

            Oh, you must not have experienced any Basque separatist violence while you were there? No bombings, nothing like that?

          • Johnnie the Jew

            No, it was great americana. You must have heard? They imposed a ceasefire whilst Johnnies controversial convention, high blue note road show, hit town. All that was happening was boar hunting (always good to keep your hand in, as they say), stone lifting, tugs of ward, great friendliness, true blue Basque festivals – week long, too!. Splendid cuisine and beverages of all delightful kind. Then the other talk was of joining up the rugby clubs of Bairritz and Bayonne. Huge cultural impact. The best bit though was the complete absence of “the others”. Uncontaminated, proper, good European culture. You gotta admire it ! Unless of course you’re a Guardian reader. Secular blessings Germaine

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            What “peace process” would that be? The one that involves pushing the Jews into the sea? Or the one that involves a juderein “Palestinian” state?

      • knowshistory

        enough hamas “leaders”. it was not hamas “leaders” who voted to make hamas the government of gaza. it was the people of gaza. the problem is a lot deeper than hamas “leaders”. the problem is hamas, and the people who voted to give hamas power. succinctly, the problem is muslims.

      • steve b

        WERE THE CIVILIANS IN HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI JUST FOLKS WHO WANTED TO GET ALONG? WHAT ABOUT THE CIVILIANS IN HAMBURG, DRESDEN, TOKYO, ETC., WHICH WE FIREBOMBED, KILLING 100,000 OR MORE IN A NIGHT?
        WHEN YOU ARE AT WAR YOU KILL AS MANY OF THE ENEMY AS YOU CAN UNTIL THEY SURRENDER. YOU DON’T MAKE A TRUCE WITH THEM SO THEY HAVE TIME TO RE-ARM FOR THE NEXT ROUND.
        HOW ABOUT IF HAMAS OR SOME OTHER PEACE LOVING GROUP STARTED TO SEND ROCKETS INTO WHERE YOU LIVED, WHILE HIDING THEMSELVES IN SCHOOLS AND OTHER CIVILIAN PLACES – WOULD YOU WANT OUR MILITARY TO TREAD CAREFULLY OR WOULD YOU WANT THEM WIPED OUT?
        I DON’T KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE BUT YOU SOUND LIKE SOMEONE FROM THE “CAN’T WE ALL GET ALONG” CROWD. WELL, HAMAS AND THE ARAB STATES DON’T WANT TO GET ALONG, THEY WANT TO WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE MAP. KILL EVERYONE. IF KILLING THE LEADERS WOULD HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM, WHERE DID THIS NEW CROWD COME FROM, SINCE THE WAR THERE HAS GONE ON SINCE 1948? THEY COME FROM THE POPULATION, WHO ARE TAUGHT TO HATE THE ISRAELIS. IF THEY KILL ALL OF THEM, THERE WILL BE NO FUTURE HAMAS LEADERS – OR FOLLOWERS.
        AS FAR AS THE CAPS, IF YOU THINK CAPS ARE EXTREME, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DON’T LIKE MY SOLUTION.

      • Drakken

        Really? No need for a response like the muslims would give the Jews of Israel if they win? Those effing bloody savages that you have empathy and sympathy for want those very same Jews dead and gone and trying to make peace with a bunch of savages is suicide. Give them Carthage and be done with it. You cannot live with muslims period, end of story.

  • El Cid

    “a certain kind of vanity that confuses stainlessness with virtue, favors
    moral self-regard over normal self-interest, and believes in politics
    as an exercise not in power but in self-examination.”

    It this be not the case, then we are not Jewish. If we are not Jewish, what is the point of existence? We will NOT be compelled to become like the others. Israel is a moral beacon among nations–the IDF is the most ethical fighting force the world has ever known.

    • StanleyT

      Exactly. While yes, we do it for them (i.e. for world opinion), more importantly, we do it for us!

    • Drakken

      If your not willing to get your hands dirty fighting an enemy that has no regards for any rules, you will be defeated. If you want to take that high moral ground, you go ahead, history is littered with your type, they are called mass graves. Never ever has there been a ethical and moral army in the history of mankind, that is complete utter leftist stupidity that you can make war a kinder and gentler proposition, it only leads to your demise. You Jews have two choices as it has always been, you either succumb to your enemy and his whims, or you can fight and survive.

  • tagalog

    Israel says they will stop their offensive if Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.
    Hamas replies by saying no, they won’t stop firing rockets into Israel until Israel stops its long-term embargo on shipment of arms into Gaza for Hamas to use against Israel.
    Israel calls the civilians in Hamas areas and warns them to get out because they are going to attack the area. They refuse to get out. Then Israel attacks, and some get hurt or killed.
    And Israel is blamed for the “Palestinian” deaths.
    They world truly has turned upside-down. Once we could understand who was the bad guy and who was the good guy. Not any more.

  • Gee

    The world will condemn Israel when it responds, the world condemns Israel when they don’t respond.

    If an Arab stubs his little toe – it is the fault of the Jews.
    If an Arab has his feelings hurt – it is the fault of the Jews.
    If an Arab is frustrated and kills his wife – it is the fault of the Jews.

    Since it is a foregone conclusion that we will be blamed for everything – we might as well just go ahead and do what is right and be condemned for that too. It really doesn’t matter what we do – so just get it done

  • Cristinascar

    Israel is still the only country in the Middle East without a death penalty, no not the Middle East, the Middle East and all of Africa, no not the Middle East and all of Africa, the Middle East, all of Africa and South America, no not the Middle East all of Africa, South America, the Middle East all of Africa South America, most of Asia, and Eastern Europe. There are no Jews in the rest of the Middle East and soon to be no Christians. Liberals today are evil and lie.

    • Americana

      The Israeli wall is not condemned simply because it was constructed, it’s condemned because it shouldn’t have been constructed without international approval because of the land being seized unilaterally by Israel. Of course, the defense wall can always be moved after a peace agreement but that’s not the point.

      • SCREW SOCIALISM

        When Israel can decide and OK or Reject what buildings or settlements can be built in Eurabia countries, then Eurabia can have a say in what goes on in Israel.

        Until that time, F OFF Eurabia!

        • Judahlevi

          You are absolutely correct. No other country has the right to tell Israel what it can or cannot build or where it can or cannot build.

          That also is true for the US president and our state department.

          • Cristinascar

            All the anti Israel commenters are being tought and are from the same group, the last one had an American flag for his insane propoganda, this one calls itself “americana” these ideas were stolen from pro-Israeli commenters as all their ideas are.

            Secondly think how braindead its comment is. In the other 2 examples I gave which was the point of my comment, there was no connection to any international consensus when creating the borders, snd building the walls, the stronger party against a totalitarian regime made the border against the near starving non-democratic governement of the other.

      • Texas Patriot

        Americana: The Israeli wall is not condemned simply because it was constructed, it’s condemned because it shouldn’t have been constructed without international approval because of the land being seized unilaterally by Israel. Of course, the defense wall can always be moved after a peace agreement but that’s not the point.

        In case you’ve missed it, the days of international law or “international approval”, as you say, having anything to do with local conflicts and local land disputes are rapidly coming to a close, if they are not already over. Groups like AQ, Boko Haram, Hamas, ISIS, and now the Islamic State which operate outside the norms of international law and according to their own internal ideas of right and wrong are the “New World Order” of the 21st Centuiry. Get used to it. It’s not going away. Where that leaves Israel and virtually all of the rest of the civilized world is in a constant battle for survival against marauding bands that are suicidally hellbent on imposing their brand of law and justice on the rest of the world.

        • Americana

          Considering Israel is one of the reasons for this growth in global jihad, many of the points you make are moot. Israel had decades in which to arrive at a political agreement w/the Palestinians and now Israel is facing an entirely different scale and type of enemy thanks to her diplomatic intransigence. I’d say Israel doesn’t have much more time to attempt to solidify something w/the Palestinians who likely don’t want to live under the Caliphate any more than any of the other Arab countries whose reactions to the Caliphate have been decidedly cool. If the Palestinians decide their best shot at independence lies in linking up w/the ISIS folks for the duration of their fight for independence only to then fight against ISIS to separate themselves from ISIS after a war of independence, that won’t be a desirable intermediate step.

          • Texas Patriot

            Americana: Considering Israel is one of the reasons for this growth in global jihad, many of the points you make are moot.

            I don’t think you’ve quite grasped the dramatically changed reality of the situation. At this point in time, the genie of global Islamic jihad is out of the bottle, and there’s no putting it back.

            If Israel folded up its tent tomorrow and agreed with Hamas that it has “no right to exist”, the combined forces of worldwide Islamic jihad wouldn’t miss a beat in their collective march to global conquest and subjugation. As you suggest, what remains to be seen is how the rest of the Islamic world will react to the existential claims of a global Islamic caliphate under the leadership of Khalifa Ibrahim, and if the recent events in Syria and Iraq are any indication, the Islamic State seems to be gaining popularity and support at an unprecedented rate.

            The only thing that is “moot” at this point in time is the absurdly quixotic notion that structuring a peace deal between Israel and Hamas would make any difference at all about anything. As we have seen in recent weeks with absolute clarity, as a practical matter, Hamas doesn’t exist as an effective political organization or entity. The “political wing” is separate and distinct from the “military wing”, and each has a mind and a game plan of its own.

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            All muslimes want the caliphate, they just differ in who leads it and how. It’s no coincidence that all islamic states enforce aspects of Sharia law (minimally blasphemy and heresy laws).

          • Americana

            Well, doh, that’s a pretty big difference of opinion and it will almost undoubtedly guarantee there will be NO CALIPHATE for the foreseeable future since NONE of the current legitimate Muslim governments/countries will willingly take on the entire world. So, the Caliphate again is the pipe dream of extremists and it will remain the UNREALIZED DREAM of extremists likely forever.

          • Texas Patriot

            Americana: there will be NO CALIPHATE for the foreseeable future since NONE of the current legitimate Muslim governments/countries will willingly take on the entire world. So, the Caliphate again is the pipe dream of extremists and it will remain the UNREALIZED DREAM of extremists likely forever.

            The creation of the Islamic State under the leadership of Khalifa Ibrahim will result in one indisputable fact. Every Muslim now living on this earth will have to make a decision. Shall I pledge my allegiance and support to Khalifa Ibrahim and the Islamic State or not? Those Muslims who do not pledge their allegiance and support to Khalifa Ibrahim and the Islamic State, will find themselves in the position of being regarded as apostates and at war with Khalifa Ibrahim and the Islamic State and its allies, known and unknown, around the world. And Khalifa Ibrahim has stated in no uncertain terms that he intends to deal with apostates, including Iran, before taking on the rest of the world.

          • Americana

            That’s right, those extremists who’ve decided to elevate themselves above the other Muslims and declare a Caliphate are going to take on the Muslims of the world first. Since Abu Bakr al-Baghadadi seems to have all the functional components of a Hitlerian personality, that’s going to make this battle fairly interesting. But that won’t exempt the rest of us from assisting those other Muslims in some ways. Even the Israelis have decided that rather than have the extremists right at their doorstep, they’d rather help hold them at bay on the far borders of Jordan. That, in and of itself, is one of the most MESMERIZING fallout from this regional insurrection.

            Would this worldwide jihad have been ignited if Israel hadn’t failed to sign a peace treaty w/the Palestinians decade after decade after decade? Oh, I’m fairly certain the Palestinian jihad has played a huge role in the declaration of various jihads all over the world. Not all of them, of course, but a significant number of them.

          • Texas Patriot

            Mesmerizing is the word. With the stroke of a pen Khalifa Ibrahim resurrected the worldwide Islamic Caliphate which had existed for fourteen hundred years until abandoned and discarded after the failure of the Ottoman Empire. As Thomas Jefferson said, one man with courage makes a majority, and whether we like it or not, that idea holds true for our enemies as well as our friends.

          • Americana

            There is no limit to ISIS’ territorial ambitions but there are significant, if not insurmountable, geographic obstacles to that world-wide ambition. Not only is this type of rolling insurrection only feasible in demographically Muslim-dominant countries, but there are such significant internal schisms that al-Baghdadi will be lucky to live out the next few years because the Americans, the Israelis and everyone else in the Middle East hierarchy, including the jihadi hierarchy, is gunning for him and his inner circle. Ayman al Zawahiri is probably spitting mad at al-Baghadadi’s presumption…

            As for Jordan “collapsing and becoming part of Israel,” that’s not only not going to happen, the Israelis would be fools to take advantage of the situation and enlarge their borders during this calamitous period. You’re right though, al-Baghdadi is like a real old-timer schemer type of guy. Why this century has spawned so many of his type?

          • Texas Patriot

            Americana: …the Israelis would be fools to take advantage of the situation and enlarge their borders during this calamitous period.

            As I have stated elsewhere on this board, the “two-state” solution in the Middle East is a fait accompli, and the two states are the Jewish State and the Islamic State. All other political entities in the region are essentially houses of cards waiting to collapse as antiquated remnants of the Sykes Picot agreement and the delusory Western presumption that it “knew what was best” for the Middle East.

            Not even Iran is likely to be able to stand up against the announced and forthcoming aggression by the Islamic State, and as long as Khalifa Ibrahim is able to maintain his winning streak, he could be very hard to dislodge from power within his own organization. Under these circumstances, Israel would be extremely ill-advised not to take advantage of every opportunity to expand her defensive perimeter in the region.

            At this point, it’s basically the Jewish State vs. the Islamic State in a battle to the death. Sorry to disappoint you, but in this grim scenario, neither side can afford more than a passing glance at world opinion.

      • IslamDownpressesHumanity

        Of course it’s condemned by islamic-nazis because it greatly inconveniences them in their jihadi aspirations to kill more Jews in Israel.

  • Gaius_Suetonius_Tranquillus

    Screw public opinion. The press will always lie about it anyway because they hate Israel. Jews are among the bravest people on this planet and they have a right to defend themselves. Ignore our Administration, the UN, the press and the Internet trolls: their agenda is clear and it isn’t pro-Israel.

    The true opinion of the American public is something you will never read in the MSM: we admire the heart, ingenuity and humanity of the Israeli people. WE have your back, even if the current occupant of the White House doesn’t. When his lease on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue runs out in two years, Israel will again have a strong ally in the United States government.

    • 1Emmit

      I have never seen the disconnect more in stark contrast between Pro Israel American citizens and their diffident, passive elected “leaders” in Washington, D.C. as I have seen today. Obama and his cohorts, most democrats and some republicans, I am now convinced, desire to see the elimination of the nation of Israel from the middle east.

      • Judahlevi

        The Obama administration appears to be the most anti-Israel administration ever. This comes from the top down and is driven by the kind of person Obama is. Who we pick as leaders has consequences.

        Just for the record, I didn’t vote for Obama either time.

        • Cristinascar

          You’re both right, you can’t have one without the other, Carter peed in the cold water so that it was warm enough for Obama.

      • Gaius_Suetonius_Tranquillus

        Emmit, you are absolutely correct. But don’t listen to his words, which are calculated to deceive. Judge him by his deeds. Obama hates Israel. He is our first and last anti-Israel president.

        • fiddler

          Yes, “you shall know them by their fruit”. And his “actions” speak so loudly.
          However I must disagree with your last statement, Barack gets some competition from Jimmy the peanut farmer in the anti-Israel president department.

  • Habbgun

    The so called moral war is immoral. To lengthen war, to make it harder to fight lets the enemy makes inroads, frustrates allies and leads to more suffering on both sides. The worst of this is that it leads to the use of more human shields. Human shields have no military effectiveness. They are just fodder for the media. Not for real human sympathy. It is fodder for the media. To encourage that is immoral. Israel most prosecute the war strongly and effectively. The Hama and Fatah leadership must be completely captured. The Hamas ability to conduct warfare destroyed utterly. That doesn’t mean tunnels. That means destruction of the people infrastructure. Better to have tunnels and no one willing to use them than to have no tunnels and people willing to dig them again.

  • Doc

    What there saying here the cost of the victory was way to high (HAD TO LOOK IT UP) these Jew haters are the murders of the innocent using them as human shields . The UN is is interested one thing there part of the American pie the only way to stop the slaughter of innocent people is to impeach or arrest obama who can and human trafficking and mass murder to his seven open acts of treason . What are these gutless wonders in DC waiting for he will turn our streets and homes into battle fields . In the blink of an evil eye.

  • wisntons

    Israel can’t win, just like Conservatives in the USA can’t win. The press is primarily a Leftist propaganda tool.

    • Gaius_Suetonius_Tranquillus

      ABC, CBS and NBC combined have lost more than half their viewers over the past 25 years. Last year, 82% of Americans got their news on a desktop or laptop, mostly from online blogs that didn’t exist five years ago. The nets no longer have a monopoly on information. The Internet has broken up their monopoly. Most of us get information from a number of websites, so we know when the MSM is lying, spinning or omitting facts or entire stories. In their zeal to protect the president, they have destroyed their credibility and their franchise. The democratization of information is a disinfectant.

      • Americana

        You think blogs are more trustworthy than large numbers of journalists and editors working for news organizations who fact-check and correct errors? You may get information from a number of web sites, but of those, how many are verifiably known to be factually correct as opposed to simply being loud voices in the melee?

        I can think of numerous anti-Sarah Palin blogs that are lousy mines of misinformation and disinformation.The blogosphere is a treacherous minefield of misinformation in the guise of partisan points of view. You may not appreciate all the MSM news orgs but you’ll deeply regret losing them because that’s what the bloggers use as their baseline source of information.

        • fiddler

          What we are talking about is the Big Three and CNN’s penchant for influence peddling rather than reporting fact that the public can decide about. If something like the “hard drives crashing” of the IRS, or any of a number of other “unpopular” events don’t make it on the news or get very offhand scant coverage, it is because they deem it is not news worthy. When something is known, particularly if it is deliterious to the President’s popularity, or calls into question progressive ideology it is spiked.

          You use of Sarah Palin’s blog as an example is lame, but hey you expect us to emotionally react to that as do the lemmings on the left do in disgust. Bill O’Reilly and Media Research time and again have pointed to the political motivation of “journalists” such as Dan Rather and so many others. What do you have to say about the “professionalism” of Al Sharpton or Chris Matthews since you mention MSM? Are you asking us to believe that they are comprehensive in their reporting and dispassionate in their political views as to dismiss them out of duty to their profession? You would be naive to think so.

          • Americana

            Al Sharpton is NOT a journalist. He’s not trained as a journalist, he’s not obligated to hold to professional journalism ethics, he’s not trained to research and evaluate information, he’s not trained to source information. Like many of today’s pundits, he’s a media personality and that’s about it. Why you’d confuse him w/being a professional journalist is beyond me. We would always have been faced w/the question of how punditry interacts w/our journalism but to the extent there is confusion in the public’s mind over who’s a journalist and who’s not, we’ve gone way too far in the direction of punditry professionals. Time to REVERSE COURSE.

            That’s exactly what I mean about people such as yourself not paying attention to the DIFFERENCES in who’s who in the media landscape. Why would you compare someone like Al Sharpton w/Dan Rather? I don’t expect you to “react emotionally” to my mention of just how stupid most of the anti-Palin blogs are. I expect you to read that comment of mine, read some of the blogs and realize I know unsubstantiated bile when I read it.

            Chris Matthews can sometimes go waaaayyyy overboard. But he’s a pundit as well, rather than a genuine reporter. PUNDITS ARE NOT REPORTERS even if they act as if they are on TV. As for CNN not covering the crashing of the IRS hard drives, that’s BEEN COVERED as far as I can tell. What CNN has not covered is HOW the hard drives crashed. Until such time as CNN does report that on air, you haven’t GOT A CLUE what the network is doing BEHIND THE SCENES to investigate what “crashed” those many computers. CNN is likely speaking w/forensic computer geeks to see what those guys think the issues were, might be trying to figure out if the forensic techs could backtrack on those hard drives in any way, etc, etc. The fact you are UNAWARE of what CNN is doing behind the scenes to determine the facts of that story is what’s bugging you. Well, you, as an outsider, you don’t and you WON’T have a clue about what CNN is investigating until such time as CNN is ready to televise its findings.

  • mompatriot

    Military victories for Israel are MORAL victories. As for public relations in this day and age where (true God-like) morality is non-existant for the most part, just continue to do what is morally right anyway.

  • Ken Blue

    Since the PLO, PA and Hamas, in their Charters and publicly since 1968 through 1988, have declared total war against Israel’s existence, Israel needs to consider complete surrender by Hamas a precondition to a ceasefire, followed by demilitarization and recognition of Israel at a minimum. It’s either peace or war, the middle ground is no longer an option. Winning is the only option today. White flag or black flag. Let Hamas decide.

    1991 Gulf War example of a proportionate response that was fully acceptable to the world:
    Coalition forces killed: 147: Iraqis killed: 30,000.

  • Gaius_Suetonius_Tranquillus

    Remember taqiyya. Hamas will lie, rearm and the cycle of violence will begin anew. They must accept unconditional surrender and deportation so they can no longer work their mischief from Gaza.

  • Arctic Ant

    At the rate things are moving, Israel may end up being the last or only moral nation left. Even countries like Brazil have thrown out their moral compass and joined the forces of darkness.

  • fiddler

    “Disproportionate response” is a completely idiotic complaint that has never before been raised in wartime except to punish Israel, itself surrounded by a massively disproportionate Arab population. No one ever won a war by countering an aggressor with carefully measured, tit-for-tat responses. Conflicts are won by striking back so disproportionately that the enemy’s military forces are devastated and, more importantly, its will to fight is crushed so thoroughly that the threat is extinguished.”

    This reminds me of the old Star Trek episode where people are merely exchanged as “casualties of war” in order to achieve the status quo supposedly over decades. So to the left “war” is merely blowing off steam with no sense of eliminating the threat.

    • Americana

      This has gone on for so long a new term, something like “attritional asymmetric warfare,” should apply. Almost none of the thinking that determines what is moral and immoral in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved when one looks at the actions taken by both sides. The Israelis have overwhelming military force which they thankfully only seldom deploy in full force. The Palestinians have far less military capability and far more restricted weaponry. When either side moves against the other, everyone is aware from the outset what is going to happen. Watching that absurd “assault force” group of 5 Palestinian frogmen come out onto the beach and be blown to smithereens within minutes was illustrative of what the morality is of this conflict w/the imbalance in weaponry.

      Some of the Arabs may have finally arrived at some degree of tolerance about Israel being part of the region but those Arabs who aren’t tolerant of her presence are terrifying in the brutality of their tactics and their refusal to budge in a logical, humane direction. What’s anyone to do? Logic tells me that you opt to make a peace settlement w/the majority of Palestinians and you see how that peace agreement weathers the storm. If it’s a good peace, it may eventually seduce the more recalcitrant Palestinians to recognize that this could be a good peace. There will undoubtedly still be military action by Hamas holdouts but nothing will solve that attritional, asymmetric warfare that must be waged for the foreseeable future. In fact, this is so close to what is being waged now, how would it differ? It would differ in that Israel would have a quantifiable number of Palestinians who had indicated their willingness to settle a peace agreement.

      • Cristinascar

        Tooo many big words for us simple conservatives. And flawless grammar.

        But your assessment is all wrong. You need to watch “palestinian” TV and read what they teach to even their youngest kids,

        • Americana

          Cristinascar, I have always maintained there should be a way to eliminate that insanely brutal televised children’s programming aimed at children. Why take perfectly fine children’s TV characters and make them into jihadis?

          I don’t happen to believe in an overarching international anti-Jewish conspiracy. You’d have to bring me more proof of its existence than to simply make that claim. Your conspiracy theory seems to be spawned out of what the Germans and their Allies managed to do to worldwide Jewry during WW II. Certainly some threads of that anti-Semitism are still around but don’t seem to have the legitimate government ties to international governments to the extent you believe.

          American foreign policy is based on the realities of the demographics in the region where most countries are Muslim-majority. It’s horrible the U.S. has no effective way to protect all the minority populations in these countries, especially given the onslaught of the ultra-conservative ISIS and ISIL militias. To see Lebanon’s future hanging in the balance is terrifying. I know many Maronite Christians who came to the U.S. after the various Lebanon wars… To think that ISIS is the future for the region is sickening.

      • Drakken

        Kill enough of them, the war ends with you winning and hamas ceasing to exist. There will be no peace agreement, no matter how much you want it to be so.

  • Tom Sentman

    Israel has already won the moral victory. According to the Freedom House, 2014 report, only one other country is surrounded by a sea of unfree countries, Mongolia. Lebanon is now “partly free,” thanks to Iran and Hezbollah, and Turkey has also been downgraded to “partly free.”

    Is it a challenge to remain free in a land of despots with lots more people? Israel with only 8 million (6 million Jewish,) surrounded by Egypt, 87 million; Jordan, 7 million, Lebanon, 5 million, Syria, 22 million, Iraq, 36 million, Iran, million, or Saudi Arabia, 30 million. Almost all the other states are theocracies. We looking again at a free David vs. a Goliath of tyrannies. The fact that Israel exists is proof of its moral superiority.

    • Cristinascar

      Great comment

  • dgala

    If the response by Israel is “disproportionate”, then what about the US/coalition “response” to 9/11?
    LWLs and MSM are fools at best and total hypocrites. Might want to start your “personal list” of such in your area so that when TSHTF and people start shouting for a “response of force” you’ll know who to take out first. Usually going to be a LWL who would never lift a finger to protect themselves, but will willingly put someone else’s life hanging out.

    • Americana

      No one should look at what the U.S. did in Iraq and believe that was simply a response to 9/11. In that sense, there’s no point in trying to assess the Iraq invasion as a proportionate or disproportionate response. That was a neocon strategic decision made on the basis of trying to keep ahead of the jihadist threat to the Middle East region.

      • Texas Patriot

        What we saw in Iraq was a failed attempt by the United States government to apply late 20th Century military strategy and tactics to a 21st Century ideological problem. Unfortunately, the government of Israel is applying the same strategy and tactics in Gaza with equally dismal and counterproductive results.

    • Cristinascar

      Forget Iraq, 78, to over 3 quarters of a million Hiroshima and Nagasaki; 5000 civilians to zero soldiers NATO budding in to Serbia.

  • Taylor Burton

    Why do you spread lies about the Hamas being behind the murder of the three teens? are you an extension of the Israeli governments propaganda machine? see http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

    • Brooklyn Farmer

      Are you a hamas operative?

      • Taylor Burton

        For argument sake, if i were one. Do you think i would acknowledge it? Redneck!
        Its an astonishing bunch of naive and hateful Jews on this site. Keep on your wishful thinking. The state of Israel has only been around 67 years. In historic perspective that is only a blip in history. USA will not always be there to protect Israel or she might not be as powerful as she is now. Many rulers in the past have also behaved in the same way as Israel has been doing for decades i.e exercising power, a power that is hollow without the USA, and that in the long run, is futile. When the demographics of USA will change, and they will combined with the fact that a lot of Americans don’t actually know how their tax dollars are utilizes to support an an illegal occupation. And when they one day connect the dots on the actual reason for why USA is hated by so many people for their support of Israel. The consequence is many dead Americans. They have to pay with their life’s for a small country called Israel. A time of judgement will come (not the biblical one) where Israel has to pay for its crimes since its creation and believe me the list is long. Time is not on Israels side, remember that. It can not resist for ever! So you keep on spreading your naive ideas about the capabilities and thoughts.

        • Brooklyn Farmer

          I’m sure your nonsensical bloviated posting was a feeble attempt to convey some imaginary insight, even the first part of you feeble diatribe “Redneck” was most humorous – you do know where Bklyn is just across the East River from were your Arab freedom fighters crashed their planes into, well maybe you don’t, maybe you don’t even know what a Redneck is, but if I were a Redneck I’d be damn proud of it.

          • Taylor Burton

            my pressense her is not to engage in personal criticism or attracts. My ‘Redneck’ statement was meant as a pun which you apparently didn’t get. And i certainly don’t need any lecture on geography. I i have lived and worked in New York on a couple of occasions. Your are right, there are such a thing called freedom fighters but you seem to be mixing things together with your reference to 9/11. I deplore murder of civilians, Be it civilians in Lebanon, west bank and Gaza being killed by IDF or civilians being killed in Vietnam, South America, Iraq and Afghanistan by Americans. I would actually like feedback on my thoughts and would appreciate criticism instead of a statement like nonsensical which i find to be very cheep. In fact, i believe it proves my point about the state of mind in many parts of American society where they have not connected the dots about the Middle East/Israel issue. this is the main issue, the main cause of the tragedies we have seen in the past 50 years.

          • IslamDownpressesHumanity

            Was 9-11 a “man-made tragedy” for you?

          • Guest

            It was definitely a reaction to America to her support of Israel (occupation
            for Palestine) and to having American troops based in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia,
            Bahrain etc.) The problem is that most American politicians have no clue
            as to the sentiment and feelings of a lot of Muslims in the world. Muslims don’t
            hate Americans, they don’t hate freedom, and they don’t hate democracy. But
            they of cause resent those that spills innocent Muslim blood, those that are
            helped by Americans to suppress and kill Muslims (Israel). Actions will undoubtedly
            have reactions. And America or let me rephrase, the dumb leadership of America at
            that time fell into a trap and reacted in a dumb way that killed even more (at
            least 30 times) innocent civilians. In the aftermath of that we still have the
            havoc today.

          • Brooklyn Farmer

            Thank you again for that ramblings nonsensical post. The Redneck walk back was total void of reason, just like the rest of your post. I understand that your beliefs are the total destruction of the state of Israel, are there any other nations that you feel that way about. You do know that Israel is responded to acts of aggression, hamas is committing a double war crime 1st in targeting Israeli citizens the 2nd war crime by hamas is using its own people as hostages (human shields). In addition Hamas has been taking building material meant for civilian buildings for it own use in tunnels for infiltrating Israel for terrorist attack on civilians, some of these tunnels have exit at Israeli schools. For both the Israeli and Palestinian civilians Hamas must be destroyed even if it mean terrorist enablers such as yourself whine.

          • Taylor Burton

            Your response ‘Thank you again for that ramblings nonsensical post’ is actually very similar to the response
            of Israel and her supporter the USA when actual facts are mentioned. Now why should the international laws apply for Israel? And of course Israel is right and the rest
            of the world is wrong! And of course Israel can have its own will whenever it suits her. Consequences for her illegal actions?? Nahhh nothing of that sort will ever happen!

            My beliefs of the total destruction of Israel? You should
            get your money back from the mind reading sessions you are attending! Sounds awfully familiar to the rhetoric of Israel. This is the way we see the world and we are of cause right!

            I believe that Jews should live side by side with the
            Palestinians, where justice and human rights apply also to the Palestinians. Yes Hamas are attacking Israel but Israel has been attacking the Palestinians for several decades, stealing their land oppressing them, violating them in other parts of the Palestinian territory. Now that’s called Terror state sponsored Terror. Comment on this? or tell me that i am rambling again! Just because we talk about Gaza doesn’t mean that the oppression is not continuing in the west bank!

            But I believe in justice and Israel will have to pay for its war crimes at some point in time – An eye for an eye or total compensation.

            1st. Israel is killing hundreds of civilians in Gaza right
            now. We have heard the cliché about Hamas using Civilian as human shields so many times and where is the evidence for that? Just because it’s been said over
            and over again doesn’t make it true. Is this the best defense for having killed over 200 children so far?

            And we have all heard the arguments of Israel 20 years ago, 10 years ago etc. Last time they wanted to destroy PLO and Arafat… Now what do you have? You have Hamas are they less aggressive with regards to their
            demands?? NO. So keep on wishing for that. Maybe it will come true and Hamas as we know it will be less capable. But what will you get instead? If you call me an Terrorist enabler you will be surprised that there
            are many more of my type around the world and ´your type’ (I won’t degrade myself in name calling) is increasingly getting outnumbered.

  • RickLoomis

    Lebanese TV news reporter has an idea. She tells her viewers that Iran should send nukes to Hamas for use against Israel.

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  • mackykam

    Jews: Arm yourselves! Even if only with pepper spray. Preferably a gun, illegal or otherwise.

  • Drakken

    What a lovely place to drop a few dozen cluster bombs.

  • leninsbarber

    If someone says they’re going to kill you, writes in their mission statement that they will wipe you off the face of the earth and then take up arms in pursuit of that mission, NOT destroying them is what is truly disproportionate.

    As a matter of fact – it is a moral failure, a sin really, to allow an organization as bellicose as Hamas and ANY of its members, that actively threaten your life and that of your people to continue.

    • IslamDownpressesHumanity

      If Hamas were to be completely eliminated, would that stop islamic terrorism from Gaza? Or would another islamic government take power and merely continue the policies of their predecessors?

      • Brooklyn Farmer

        Easy, kill the next one in line and after him the next on, repeat steps 1 and 2 ad infinitum if necessary.

  • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

    The real victory over Japan in WW II came by changing the cultural roots that caused the war.

    Without Islamic reformation – the entire world will continue to deal with Muslim jihadists (they are an integral part of Islam.)

    Israel should first totally devastate Hamas. Then admit “Islamic theology” is the problem. Then deal with the problem.

    Here are a few – post military victory – steps:

    1. Stop the muezzin – This constant, 5 times a day, call to prayers is nothing more than a continual incitement for the most devout Muslims. It badgers “cultural Muslims” into silence on the issue of Islam.

    2. Arrest the mullahs

    3. Close the mosques – demolish most – demolish most minarets

    4. Arrest anyone who tries to enforce sharia law.

    5. Make women equal to men.

    6. All girls to school.

    7. Allow only Muslim cultural customs that are compatible with the 21st century.

    8. Do not allow any customs that celebrate violence.

    9. Arrest anyone who tries to promote violence in any way.

    10. Religion can only be practiced at home – no large groups.

    11. Force a reformation of the Koran, Haidith, and Sunnah. Confiscate all Korans.

    Islam in nothing but a big successful cult – read how Islam works at: http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/

  • Fount

    Progressive = Neo-Nazi

    • Drakken

      Progressive is nothing more and nothing less than a communist with a smiley face.

  • Pepe Turcon

    Agree! Israel should win decisively and nuke her enemies. It’s coming anyway from Iran so I have been told by a friend in the Knesset, Israel is waiting for the next US president to finally win the war. Do not forget that Von Braun was working for Hitler and it was a matter of days and the Nazis would have nuked the allies, from London to New York.
    Realpolitik takes guts and the Israelis have them but are being very careful not to jump to conclusions but when push comes to shove Israel will pulverize all the Arab hypocrites who support terror just to be left alone drinking wine and chasing whores in London and Paris.
    Facts are facts and that’s realpolitik meine liebe!

    • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

      I agree with one exception: It is Muslims not Arabs.

  • Tradecraft46

    Israel, oddly, does not care to do market research, odd for a race of hondelers.

    Israel should note what is popularly considered winning in that part of the world. Note how Jordan defeated the Palestinians. The key is running up a body count, and chasing the remained out of the area.

    Jordan was accused of genocide, probably true in a sense, but you have to play to the audience. If done quickly, people have short memories. Note that Jordan is and was weak, but did what it thought was right to survive, and nobody cared.

    Everyone should note, that Islam hates losers: if you are it is because Allah has found fault with you. That is why other countries have shun Palestinians. It is simply felt that they should clean up their own mess. The harder their lot the more fellow Muslims think they deserve it.

    If Israel continues to be a slave to what it believes is world opinion, it will die from loosing people, if nothing else.

    • Americana

      No wonder your BB handle is ‘Tradecraft!’ You certainly demonstrate a certain primitive tradecraft in this DOUBLE propaganda endorsement of the genocide solution of eliminating the Palestinian problem. History does have a short memory, however you’d never eliminate ALL the Palestinians since they’re spread throughout the region. If you think Israel can run around and commit genocide after genocide in order to clean up the Palestinian problem, country by country, I think you’re wrong. History would also prove Israel wrong because of the historical awkwardness of the Palestinian provenance to the region.

      • Tradecraft46

        So far my solution seems to have historical approval.

        Remember how many Germans died in post WWII genocide? Lots when they were tossed out of their locations when the borders were redrawn. No one wanted to have German minorities like in Czecho.

        You might also remember that the Palestinian held the land by Right of Conquest, as the Israeli do now. Better still Israel won the land in a defense war.

        So far nobody no country or people have suffered the fate that you predict for Israel if they take the necessary action. History in fact strongly endorses all action taken in self-defense.

        Of course you will never get all of them, though they tend to be in the area. All you have to do is kill all those who want to fight and make peace with those who accept defeat, and are willing to move on.

  • http://oddhammer.com/tutorials/debt_clock/US_debt_clock_dynamic.swf John Barleycorn

    FUC WHAT THE WORLD THINKS . . . .DESTROY HAMAS AND ISLAM ..

    • IslamDownpressesHumanity

      If Israel had a thousand nuclear tipped, MIRV’s ICBM’s in hardened silos I’d say go for it. Because fear of annihilation is all the islamic-nazis and maybe, more importantly, their collaborators in the various dying western democracies respect.

  • Americana

    My SARC is permanently on for certain individuals.